The Top Tackles of the 2017 Draft Class

[Ziggy]

Much has been made of this year's tackle class. The draft "experts" seem to think it's weak at the top for tackles. While there may not be a Joe Thomas coming out, I disagree with their assessment. I think that there's 3 legit first round prospects. Here's how I have them broken down.

1. Cam Robinson- 6'6 322
I've never seen the experts so completely divided over one offensive tackle prospect. Half of them see a guy that can be a franchise left tackle, and the other half think he's either a right tackle or guard prospect only. He's a hulking presence at 6'6 322 pounds with long arms and solid base. He's nowhere near the athlete that other top tackles have been coming out of the draft, but has surprisingly good technique. He also played against some of the country's top pass rushers for multiple seasons. Robinson uses his size well in the run game. He can clear space quickly and is decent at getting to the second level. The one area that he struggles is against speed rushers. He's definitely not the 'dancing bear' type. Robinson may have the lowest floor outside of the left tackle position.

2. Garett Bolles- 6'5 297
Bolles has a different build than Robinson and Ramczyk. He only played one year of FBS football after transferring from a junior college. Bolles has freakish athletic ability for a big guy. At the combine he had the best 3 cone drill of all offensive lineman and was 2nd in the short shuttle. It backs up what the film shows. Bolles has the best feet in this draft. He excels against speed rushers and at getting to the second level in the run game. Bolles also plays with the nastiest demeanor in the draft. One scouting report said, "Bolles could start a fight in an empty room." It shows up in the way he finishes blocks. He has the highest ceiling of any left tackle prospect in this draft. Bolles has two things working against him. He lacks the upper body strength to anchor against elite power rushers, and he will be 25 when the season starts. With an NFL weight training regimen, the strength issue is fixable. How much the age issue will bother teams will probably vary from GM to GM.

3. Ryan Ramczyk- 6'6 310
Like Bolles, Ramczyk has only one season of FBS experience. He also transferred from a junior college. Of the top three, Ramczyk is probably the most starter ready prospect. He's solid in both run and pass protection. He has good size, good feet, and is a sound technician. Due to offseason hip surgery, he won't be able to do pre-draft workouts, but by all accounts he should be ready for training camp. Ramczyk has the lowest floor at the LT position in this draft. Even though he can't do workouts, the Broncos will have plenty of inside info on him. Tight end coach Geep Chryst is the brother of Wisconsin head coach Paul Chryst. If the Broncos want to roll with the most NFL ready starter, Ramczyk is their man. He may have the lowest ceiling of three, but I think his floor could be starting caliber.






Overall thoughts- All 3 are worthy of a first round pick. Something tells me that Bolles is the man if the Broncos go LT in the first round. He fits the new offensive line mentality to a tee. The age problem shouldn't be much of a problem considering two of the best three left tackle in the NFL are 32 and 35 years old. Also, coach Joseph has mentioned more than once that the Broncos need to find a left tackle that can stop speed rushers. The AFC west is full of them. Khalil Mack, Bruce Irvin, Justin Houston, Tamba Hali, Dee Ford, and Melvin Ingram come to mind. Cam wouldn't be a bad pick. If he doesn't work out at left tackle, I think he could be a Ricky Wagner type of right tackle, or move inside to guard. He has the kind of size and strength that you can't coach up. Ramczyk has a chance to be an effective day 1 starter at the left tackle position.

[OrangeHoof]

Pretty close to what I've read and summarized elsewhere. Most draft boards seem to rank Ramczyk, Robinson and Bolles in that order but they are not uniform in that opinion.

I am curious about guys like Julie'N Davenport and Roderick Johnson just in case we take another position in the first round and the three top OTs are gone by our pick in the second. Can either be a diamond in the rough? What of Forest Lamp and Taylor Moton? Small school kids.

I'm sure Dove Valley is doing their homework but there are many here that want us to draft McCaffrey or an edge rusher and leave OT for later. If the Broncos go that route, who/what is their Plan B for filling the LT position?

[NightTerror218]

I am not sure these guys are 1st round draft grades in other previous years. Never hear the girst yackle coming off the board near 20. Almost always sever in top 10.

[LTC Pain]

I am not sure these guys are 1st round draft grades in other previous years. Never hear the girst yackle coming off the board near 20. Almost always sever in top 10.

"girst yackle"??? Muhahaha!

[Ziggy]

Pretty close to what I've read and summarized elsewhere. Most draft boards seem to rank Ramczyk, Robinson and Bolles in that order but they are not uniform in that opinion.

I am curious about guys like Julie'N Davenport and Roderick Johnson just in case we take another position in the first round and the three top OTs are gone by our pick in the second. Can either be a diamond in the rough? What of Forest Lamp and Taylor Moton? Small school kids.

I'm sure Dove Valley is doing their homework but there are many here that want us to draft McCaffrey or an edge rusher and leave OT for later. If the Broncos go that route, who/what is their Plan B for filling the LT position?

Lamp played his college career at LT. He has great athleticism but his arms are too short to play tackle at the next level. He's the consensus #1 guard in the draft and could go in the top 15. Taylor Moton is a pure road grading guard in the NFL. The next tier of tackles begins with Antonio Garcia who's a small school guy. He has a chance to go in the second. Julie'n Davenport is a complete project but may go in the third round simply due to measurables. He's not a guy that you can bring in to start right away. He'll take 1-2 years to develop but has a high ceiling.

Roderick Johnson is an intriguing guy. He has the perfect height and length to play tackle in the NFL, and played in a pro style system at Florida State. He has a ton of potential, but poor mechanics. With the right coaching and work ethic, he could turn into a solid NFL tackle. I think he goes in the second round.

Dion Dawkins is a guy that could go in the second as well. He's another small school guy that had a great week of practice at the senior bowl. If the Broncos wait until the second round for a tackle, I'd look for him or Johnson to be on their radar.

[Az Snake]

I'm hoping Mr. Elway goes for BPA with the first pick.
I don't think any of these "top 3 draft prospects" will be able to step in and handle the blind side rush.
I'm sure Mr. Elway is aware of this and has plans to secure a bonifide veteran LT somehow, someway.

[OrangeHoof]

I believe the plan is force feed Schumacher up to 370 lbs and, if it doesn't work, they'll at least have some delicious foie gras in time for Christmas.

[Canmore]

I'm hoping Mr. Elway goes for BPA with the first pick.
I don't think any of these "top 3 draft prospects" will be able to step in and handle the blind side rush.
I'm sure Mr. Elway is aware of this and has plans to secure a bonifide veteran LT somehow, someway.

I'd love to see a decent left tackle in Dove Valley. I have no idea where we are going to find said person.

[NightTerror218]

"girst yackle"??? Muhahaha!

My phone sucks at auto correct and even corrects to wrong words. I dont reread for proof reading obviously.

[Canmore]

My phone sucks at auto correct and even corrects to wrong words. I dont reread for proof reading obviously.

The tackle class for 2017 is an inept as your phones auto correct.

[Hawgdriver]

Right now, I have doubts that any one of these three guys can be an NFL left tackle.

[OrangeHoof]

I think Bolles and Ramczyk will be good OTs but they may not be ready out of the box.

[Poet]

From what I've read on Robinson he has issues with balance. He also, to some scouts, projects more as a guard.

The guy from Wisconsin is who I want. He played at an elite level last year - he just has some medical issues and did it one year. So what? He has the brains for it and Wisconsin makes a lot of really good offensive lineman. Draft him and I consider it a big time win.

[Hawgdriver]

Ramczyk is not 1st round good. He recovers great when beat and in the end he wins a lot.

But his footwork is sloppy, he's no run game mauler, he's not super athletic at getting to backers, and his hands are nothing elite. He's solid, and could be the real deal with some development, but not sure you spend a 1st on him.

I won't complain if they snag him, though. He's a do-your-homework guy because there is the upside, but major risks--not just the injury.

[Poet]

He's above average at just about everything from what I've read - I'll have to take your word on the footwork, though that's not what I've read.

[Hawgdriver]

He's above average at just about everything from what I've read - I'll have to take your word on the footwork, though that's not what I've read.

Well, if you want some cold water (more like tepid or lukewarm, not cold), here is Voch Lombardi's take.

gzEQJ-Nb5WA

[Poet]

I feel you bro. Mayock is the draft guy I trust the most and he leans towards Ram being a first rounder.

[Hawgdriver]

I feel you bro. Mayock is the draft guy I trust the most and he leans towards Ram being a first rounder.

Does Mayock offer any evidence to justify his process? I'm sure he has his reasons, but guys like us demand a higher empirical standard, right?

[Poet]

Does Mayock offer any evidence to justify his process? I'm sure he has his reasons, but guys like us demand a higher empirical standard, right?

He does - let me take a royal deuce and I'll dig some up.

[Jsteve01]

I feel you bro. Mayock is the draft guy I trust the most and he leans towards Ram being a first rounder.

Does Mayock offer any evidence to justify his process? I'm sure he has his reasons, but guys like us demand a higher empirical standard, right? are we talking Money Ball type stuff cuz that seems to have worked really well and Cleveland LOL. I understand what you're saying I Rely heavily on football Outsiders and Pro Football Focus legitimate numbers. So I actually have liked a lot of their pre-draft stuff over at Pro Football Focus. Theyve done a lot more intensive work this year than they had in previous years. That said there is no doubt when you look at all three of the top tackles the Ramczyk. is the more polished player. When it's a crapshoot on all three of them. I think if I'm drafting a tackle late in the first round I go with the guy who has a lower floor. I think the frustrating thing is we really don't know what is athletic ability is because coming off the hip surgery he not been available to really work out

[Hawgdriver]

are we talking Money Ball type stuff cuz that seems to have worked really well and Cleveland LOL. I understand what you're saying I Rely heavily on football Outsiders and Pro Football Focus legitimate numbers. So I actually have liked a lot of their pre-draft stuff over at Pro Football Focus. Theyve done a lot more intensive work this year than they had in previous years. That said there is no doubt when you look at all three of the top tackles the Ramczyk. is the more polished player. When it's a crapshoot on all three of them. I think if I'm drafting a tackle late in the first round I go with the guy who has a lower floor. I think the frustrating thing is we really don't know what is athletic ability is because coming off the hip surgery he not been available to really work out

You have a PFF subscription of some kind?

[Jsteve01]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/draft-ranking-the-top-o-line-prospects-entering-the-2017-draft/

[NightTerror218]

Any other draft and you throw these tackles in there. They would all be day 2 prospects. Top 3...2 are first year starters in division I football. Robinson is a fense guy where some see him as tackle and some as guard. He has poor feet but a mauler.

[DT88TheGreat]

I feel you bro. Mayock is the draft guy I trust the most and he leans towards Ram being a first rounder.

I wish mayock was right when he said knowshon would be all pro for 10 year's.

[DT88TheGreat]

I really hope we draft the tight end from Miami at 20, but if they go with one of the LT I just hope they can play decent this year and develop into a good LT. But I think there's way too many skill position players with higher grades to be had at 20 like Ross, maybe Cook, anjoku, peppers etc.

[Ziggy]

I wish mayock was right when he said knowshon would be all pro for 10 year's.

...And when he said that Robert Ayers would be the best defensive player of that draft in 3 years.

[Ziggy]

Any other draft and you throw these tackles in there. They would all be day 2 prospects. Top 3...2 are first year starters in division I football. Robinson is a fense guy where some see him as tackle and some as guard. He has poor feet but a mauler.

I strongly disagree. NT have you watched any film on these guys or are you just going by what some of the draft 'experts' say?

[Ziggy]

I am beginning to wonder if Elway and company might take a shot at Lamp at 20....assuming he drops. He did play tackle in college and is the most technically sound lineman in this draft. If it wasn't for the T-rex arms he would be the top tackle prospect in this draft. Perhaps they try him out at LT. He said at the senior bowl that some teams talked to him about playing LT in the NFL. Worst case scenario, he fails at LT and you move him over to guard to play at a pro bowl level for years.

[Poet]

I am beginning to wonder if Elway and company might take a shot at Lamp at 20....assuming he drops. He did play tackle in college and is the most technically sound lineman in this draft. If it wasn't for the T-rex arms he would be the top tackle prospect in this draft. Perhaps they try him out at LT. He said at the senior bowl that some teams talked to him about playing LT in the NFL. Worst case scenario, he fails at LT and you move him over to guard to play at a pro bowl level for year.

That's a sharp observation, Ziggy. I think that it could be quite real, because Elway mentioned that Watson might play LT for us. So, if that's true, we either have two guys who can play some LT, or a starting LG who can get some work and eventually proceed to LT. FWIW, that's how Whitworth started out.

[DT88TheGreat]

...And when he said that Robert Ayers would be the best defensive player of that draft in 3 years.

:( how could I forget about Rob Ayers as well.

[DT88TheGreat]

I am beginning to wonder if Elway and company might take a shot at Lamp at 20....assuming he drops. He did play tackle in college and is the most technically sound lineman in this draft. If it wasn't for the T-rex arms he would be the top tackle prospect in this draft. Perhaps they try him out at LT. He said at the senior bowl that some teams talked to him about playing LT in the NFL. Worst case scenario, he fails at LT and you move him over to guard to play at a pro bowl level for years.

Lamp is a very intriguing prospect.

[Poet]

...And when he said that Robert Ayers would be the best defensive player of that draft in 3 years.

He said he could be if he was in the right situation. I remember being shocked at that because I thought that Ayers was a middling talent guy who never really showed up on film.

Then again, Mayock was the guy who called Earl Thomas being a god. Everyone thought he was crazy.

[OrangeHoof]

"Who the hell is Mel Kiper, Jr.?"

[NightTerror218]

I strongly disagree. NT have you watched any film on these guys or are you just going by what some of the draft 'experts' say?

Mostly draft expert evaluation. I watch bama and robinson did not stand out to me.

[DT88TheGreat]

O linemen rarely stand out watching a live gamex its usually what you see on the film that catches your eye.

[Ziggy]

He said he could be if he was in the right situation. I remember being shocked at that because I thought that Ayers was a middling talent guy who never really showed up on film.

Then again, Mayock was the guy who called Earl Thomas being a god. Everyone thought he was crazy.

He was rating both Ayers and Moreno higher than most everyone else in the entire draft. I think McDaniels went straight off of his draft board, which made it one of the worst drafts in Broncos history.....


“Robert Ayers is the best defensive player coming out of this draft,” Mayock said. “You can get creative with Ayers. He brings your scheme versatility on defense. . . . I think he’s a special player.”

Mayock had Ayers ranked as the third-best player in the draft behind Virginia tackle Eugene Monroe and Georgia tailback Knowshon Moreno, selected by the Broncos six picks ahead of Ayers.

http://www.denverpost.com/2009/04/25/ayers-earns-early-high-praise/

[NightTerror218]

O linemen rarely stand out watching a live gamex its usually what you see on the film that catches your eye.

Well when you watch a game and they call him out by name as a top tackle for draft and ge gets abused and beaten.

[Poet]

He was rating both Ayers and Moreno higher than most everyone else in the entire draft. I think McDaniels went straight off of his draft board, which made it one of the worst drafts in Broncos history.....


http://www.denverpost.com/2009/04/25/ayers-earns-early-high-praise/

Well, for a short time he was right about Moreno - who then promptly had his body fail him. I think all the draft guys are almost forced to overstate their position because when it's t.v. time no one wants to hear "well this player might be better, but I think this guy is better because of (whatever) but I obviously can't be sure of (valid reasons) and a lot of development comes down to coaching and team setting." I'm not a draftnik like you, but Mayock has been the guy who is 'wrong the least' or 'right the most' out of the national voices.

[Hawgdriver]

Sometimes you can be right about a prospect but it's not a good fit after the draft, or the prospect changes in a way that would have been difficult to predict. Not saying that's the case with Ayers or Moreno.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Ayers may not be a perennial all pro, but he's a quality starter year in and year out

[Ziggy]

Well, for a short time he was right about Moreno - who then promptly had his body fail him. I think all the draft guys are almost forced to overstate their position because when it's t.v. time no one wants to hear "well this player might be better, but I think this guy is better because of (whatever) but I obviously can't be sure of (valid reasons) and a lot of development comes down to coaching and team setting." I'm not a draftnik like you, but Mayock has been the guy who is 'wrong the least' or 'right the most' out of the national voices.

I'm not a true draftnik. Those guys spend way too much time studying film. I do it part time just to prepare for my mock draft contest with my son. It's a yearly tradition that we have while we watch the draft and a great father/son bonding thing. He's kicked my butt the last 2 years, so I have spent a little extra time studying this year. That young man is insanely intelligent.

[Poet]

I'm not a true draftnik. Those guys spend way too much time studying film. I do it part time just to prepare for my mock draft contest with my son. It's a yearly tradition that we have while we watch the draft and a great father/son bonding thing. He's kicked my butt the last 2 years, so I have spent a little extra time studying this year. That young man is insanely intelligent.

Probably gets it from his mother? ;)

[Az Snake]

BPA ?
Move up for Christian if the Broncos have to ?
Trade picks for Joe ?
Or both ?
Or not ? I dunno.....
Mr. Elway please astound us !!!

[Poet]

Also, using McCaff as a guy who is bust proof is really stupid - in order to do so he has to be a serviceable slot WR, a returner, and a RB. If anything, that should show you how hard it is to be 'bust proof' - bad argument is bad, Cugel.

[Ziggy]

Mike Mayock now has Cam Robinson as his #1 tackle. Quite the backpedal after saying that he would have to be a guard in the NFL. I wonder if he just hadn't studied the film earlier on.

[NightTerror218]

I think this draft is a great RT class but lacking the LT guys. Why i think the tackles are all rated as late 1st to early 2nd guys. Plus the fact there aee so many good defensive prospects.

[Simple Jaded]

Duck you autocorrect, I'm sick of your shirt.

[DT88TheGreat]

Mike Mayock now has Cam Robinson as his #1 tackle. Quite the backpedal after saying that he would have to be a guard in the NFL. I wonder if he just hadn't studied the film earlier on.

For me cam is definitely a LT, he has the best kick out of them all and once he gets his hands on the defender it is over. He is the only guy I would takeThe at 20 if we went OL with the pick.

[NightTerror218]

For me cam is definitely a LT, he has the best kick out of them all and once he gets his hands on the defender it is over. He is the only guy I would takeThe at 20 if we went OL with the pick.

Per the talking head evaluators...he has poor feet and is beat by speed rushers.

[Hawgdriver]

For me cam is definitely a LT, he has the best kick out of them all and once he gets his hands on the defender it is over. He is the only guy I would takeThe at 20 if we went OL with the pick.

Yeah, he has those death-mitts. But his kick is inconsistent from what I saw. Leans on his strength, and doesn't always work his hands like a pro. A guy like Ware would eat him alive with better hand technique and trickeration.

[DT88TheGreat]

He hung with the number 1 pick blow for blow.

[NightTerror218]

He hung with the number 1 pick blow for blow.

So did the southern methodist left tackle.

Robinson had a lot of TE help

[NightTerror218]

Bolles may be the top tackle target but its time for smoke and mirrors

http://den.247sports.com/Bolt/Report-Very-strong-chance-the-Broncos-draft-Garett-Bolles-52374275

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Bolles may be the top tackle target but its time for smoke and mirrors

http://den.247sports.com/Bolt/Report-Very-strong-chance-the-Broncos-draft-Garett-Bolles-52374275

I like this

[DT88TheGreat]

So did the southern methodist left tackle.

Robinson had a lot of TE help

I didn't see any tight end help on the film.....

[NightTerror218]

I didn't see any tight end help on the film.....

Hard to get film on a OT.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=/amp/www.milehighreport.com/platform/amp/2017/3/30/15127920/2017-nfl-scouting-report-scouting-alabama-offensive-tackle-cam&ved=0ahUKEwjDle-Hl7TTAhVJyVQKHQpvA7EQFghDMAU&usg=AFQjCNGaCdJo4nzNrq_oJLlRn7Xxeej9Nw&sig2=tfBPvdXg_DlJhS-clz3QJA


Several scouting rwports mention howard helping. Which is why hiwaed is considered an all around TE who can block. This link lists te help under weakness.

[NightTerror218]

He hung with the number 1 pick blow for blow.

https://youtu.be/s1Dz6-Xs0Y0

Here is robinson being abused by Garrett. Its not pretty. Bull rush. Speed rush.

[NightTerror218]

https://youtu.be/s1Dz6-Xs0Y0

Here is robinson being abused by Garrett. Its not pretty. Bull rush. Speed rush.

Bama vs tenenesse

https://youtu.be/Sk0_iAVH9VI
Robinson does not stand out as best blocker on that line. Bama runs over center to right side a lot. Do see a lot of run plays with overloaded left side te or 2 te outside of robinson.

[Traveler]

Pass on Bolles. If selected in the 1st, the kid will be 30 by his second contract. Guilty of age discrimination.........so what!

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Pass on Bolles. If selected in the 1st, the kid will be 30 by his second contract. Guilty of age discrimination.........so what!

The years of playing flootball would have an equal impact on his body. So, when he's 30 he'll likely have the same mileage left that other tackles would at 28. Hypothetically, he should be a viable tackle into his mid 30's. Besides, if we get 5 years of quality production from him it will be worth the #20 pick. He has a lot of upside and should he a good blind side protector.

[Hawgdriver]

The years of playing flootball would have an equal impact on his body. So, when he's 30 he'll likely have the same mileage left that other tackles would at 28. Hypothetically, he should be a viable tackle into his mid 30's. Besides, if we get 5 years of quality production from him it will be worth the #20 pick. He has a lot of upside and should he a good blind side protector.

The age = 25 arguments, I don't get them.

[DT88TheGreat]

Bolles age is a non factor, you have o line guys playing until they are 34-35 year's old. If we can get 7-10 year's of good LT play then yeah the pick was well worth it. He'd be able to play until 35 at the minimum barring any huge catastrophic injuries. At that age of 25 you can't afford to miss 2-3-4 season's with injuries.

[Hawgdriver]

Bolles age is a non factor, you have o line guys playing until they are 34-35 year's old. If we can get 7-10 year's of good LT play then yeah the pick was well worth it. He'd be able to play until 35 at the minimum barring any huge catastrophic injuries. At that age of 25 you can't afford to miss 2-3-4 season's with injuries.

The frequency of hitting a third contract is so low these days. Not sure how it's relevant.

[Simple Jaded]

https://youtu.be/s1Dz6-Xs0Y0

Here is robinson being abused by Garrett. Its not pretty. Bull rush. Speed rush.
A, that reach block for any OL is tough, Garrett's speed to power is rare.

B. There's only a handful of NFL players that can bend the edge like that. One of them plays for Denver and another just retired from Broncos.

C, Two plays.

[NightTerror218]

A, that reach block for any OL is tough, Garrett's speed to power is rare.

B. There's only a handful of NFL players that can bend the edge like that. One of them plays for Denver and another just retired from Broncos.

C, Two plays.

He has been suspect on speed several times. Garrett also man handled him and pushed him around. LSU edge rushers beat him around edge too. I posted that as well.

[DT88TheGreat]

He has been suspect on speed several times. Garrett also man handled him and pushed him around. LSU edge rushers beat him around edge too. I posted that as well.

Dude watch the entire evidence, if you are seeking out bad plays that's all you are going to find.
https://youtu.be/Wj0lBw9LyA8

Cam Robinson more than held his own vs him. I watched that tape 3 times now and absolutely loved what I seen. Majority of the time he was blocking and he number 1 pick out of the play.

[DT88TheGreat]

There also wasn't no reason tightend over there helping him as you said. Robinson was handling his business over there on a island.

There's also footage of bolles being owned, but is that an indictment on his entire ability? No. Cam is what 3-4 years younger than bolles and has faced alot of superior talent in the SEC and still came out with a first round grade.

[DT88TheGreat]

Isn't Garrett number 15? Lol im not sure anybody wants to use Robinson tape from that match up to try and knock him. He totally won that match up.
https://youtu.be/Wj0lBw9LyA8

Please watch.......

[DT88TheGreat]

At this point I am 100% in favor of drafting cam @ 20. This guy might have his bumps and bruises as he learns the game at LT in the pro's but he is definitely a day one starter and will be effective.

[NightTerror218]

Isn't Garrett number 15? Lol im not sure anybody wants to use Robinson tape from that match up to try and knock him. He totally won that match up.
https://youtu.be/Wj0lBw9LyA8

Please watch.......

Watch the game film again. Garrett pushed rombinson ahead ovet and over to makes tackles for a loss on RB. He held is own partially because the QB ran so often. LSU game he had TE help several times. I expect a top LT prospect to man handle average college players.

Several playa he was beat luckily it was running play other side and not a passing play.

[slim]

Watch the game film again. Garrett pushed rombinson ahead ovet and over to makes tackles for a loss on RB. He held is own partially because the QB ran so often. LSU game he had TE help several times. I expect a top LT prospect to man handle average college players.

Several playa he was beat luckily it was running play other side and not a passing play.

Are you saying Garrett is an average player?

[DT88TheGreat]

Are you saying Garrett is an average player?

That's exactly what he just said. However he keeps on saying how Robinson was blown up, how Robinson looked decent because the qb ran, buy has zero evidence to back up those claims, meanwhile I just posted 15 minutes of film that proved him wrong on the matter and he jumped to LSU..... Lol

The fact of the matter is the film I just posted had Robinson winning the match up. He pancaked guys, he opened up big running lanes, he sealed off the edge for running lanes and he kept Garrett and company off his QB blind side. Id urge night terror to actually watch that video because he clearly didn't watch it. There is noway you can watch that video of #15 being ineffective in those 15 minutes of film. Pay attention to the film and how they tried to move Garrett to the other side of the line in the second half because it just wasn't working for him consistently vs Cam.

[Hawgdriver]

I thought Cam owned Garrett in 2016 game, considering Garrett is an all-world OLB/DE prospect.

[NightTerror218]

Are you saying Garrett is an average player?

Nope. But saying that robinson held him in check is not true.

[NightTerror218]

That's exactly what he just said. However he keeps on saying how Robinson was blown up, how Robinson looked decent because the qb ran, buy has zero evidence to back up those claims, meanwhile I just posted 15 minutes of film that proved him wrong on the matter and he jumped to LSU..... Lol

The fact of the matter is the film I just posted had Robinson winning the match up. He pancaked guys, he opened up big running lanes, he sealed off the edge for running lanes and he kept Garrett and company off his QB blind side. Id urge night terror to actually watch that video because he clearly didn't watch it. There is noway you can watch that video of #15 being ineffective in those 15 minutes of film. Pay attention to the film and how they tried to move Garrett to the other side of the line in the second half because it just wasn't working for him consistently vs Cam.

I posted two videos and evidence of him being beat. Along with numerous draft experts pointing out his flaws. Only thing i didnt do was hold your hand and give you time stamps for all the times he was beat.

I said that he was helped out by the fact that bama runs the hell out of the ball....away from him and a running QB.

Go watch the damn video you will see him abused by garrett and lsu DL.

[Hawgdriver]

Nope. But saying that robinson held him in check is not true.

Would love to watch that film with you bro.

[NightTerror218]

Would love to watch that film with you bro.

Haha. I was looking for more film on him but SEC games werw all i could get. I am pretty sure he had a rough time with clemson too.

[Hawgdriver]

Haha. I was looking for more film on him but SEC games werw all i could get. I am pretty sure he had a rough time with clemson too.

That Film Room Ep. 23, Myles v. Cam was a good share, thx. Just watched it. To me it says 'draft Cam.' But you don't think so?

[DT88TheGreat]

I posted two videos and evidence of him being beat. Along with numerous draft experts pointing out his flaws. Only thing i didnt do was hold your hand and give you time stamps for all the times he was beat.

I said that he was helped out by the fact that bama runs the hell out of the ball....away from him and a running QB.

Go watch the damn video you will see him abused by garrett and lsu DL.

You seen a LT beat a couple times? And that's the end all be all, but 15 plus minutes, play after play of him owning #15 is irrelevant? That's weak and clearly says you are in denial bro.

[Poet]

Getting beat a couple times a game in the NFL means your QB is sacked and beaten down. If I get beat a couple times a game consistently I'm bad as a LT.

[Hawgdriver]

You seen a LT beat a couple times? And that's the end all be all, but 15 plus minutes, play after play of him owning #15 is irrelevant? That's weak and clearly says you are in denial bro.

This is kind of where I am at.

[DT88TheGreat]

Joe Thomas has.been beat before, every LT gets beat sometimes. That doesn't mean a thing. Just means he got beat a couple times by a great rusher, meanwhile the rest of the 60 snaps he owned Garrett and that's just facts.

[Poet]

Joe Thomas has had sackless seasons.

So when you just give up two sacks a game it's only making you the worst starter in the league. No big deal?

[DT88TheGreat]

https://youtu.be/s1Dz6-Xs0Y0

Here is robinson being abused by Garrett. Its not pretty. Bull rush. Speed rush.

A couple of the blown up the rusher in the backfield plays wasn't even Robinson assignments, your own video doesn't help your argument. Ive seen this video before, you are talking about a couple plays vs 15 minutes of film with about 30-40 snaps of Garrett being owned by Robinson.

[Poet]

Von Miller is a great pass rusher. Von Miller doesn't average a sack a game. Think about that for a second. The onus on the LT is to go one on one with the best pass rusher the other team has with no help.

That's the standard.

[DT88TheGreat]

Joe Thomas has had sackless seasons.

So when you just give up two sacks a game it's only making you the worst starter in the league. No big deal?

You don't have to give up the sack to be beat. Bad throws, throw aways, qb hits, qb pressures all come from being beat.

[Poet]

In that video the guy is raving about Robsinon at 2:30...while Robinson is holding onto old boys jersey...

This is not going well.

[Poet]

You don't have to give up the sack to be beat. Bad throws, throw aways, qb hits, qb pressures all come from being beat.

Exactly - so if he's going to be getting beaten several times a game he's not actually all that great. The top guys don't give up a ton of those.

Robinson is going to be a guard. Or, he's going to end up like another massive LT from Alabama and turn into a RT. He's an Andre Smith clone.

[DT88TheGreat]

A couple of the blown up the rusher in the backfield plays wasn't even Robinson assignments, your own video doesn't help your argument. Ive seen this video before, you are talking about a couple plays vs 15 minutes of film with about 30-40 snaps of Garrett being owned by Robinson.

As a matter of fact this video the guy making it said Robinson had his best game of the year vs Garrett and texas a&m, so your video once again doesn't help your argument. I didn't even have to hear this guy say that to actually see that Robinson owned him the entire game. I'm not sure what you have against cam but it's seriously making you delusional about what happened in this game.

[Poet]

Why are you talking to yourself? Why are you mad at yourself?

[DT88TheGreat]

Exactly - so if he's going to be getting beaten several times a game he's not actually all that great. The top guys don't give up a ton of those.

Robinson is going to be a guard. Or, he's going to end up like another massive LT from Alabama and turn into a RT. He's an Andre Smith clone.

I'm not sure what you are talking about, show me one Great LT that hasn't been beat by an elite rusher. You can't be saying that Robinson gets beat twice a game when he doesn't just because he got beat twice vs the number one pick? Who he owned the entire game? Whose team won 33-14? Clearly those little two times he got beat were irrelevant, and clearly he dominated Garrett to the point the coaches moved Garrett to the RT side in the 2nd half because he couldn't get around nor move Robinson.

[DT88TheGreat]

Why are you talking to yourself? Why are you mad at yourself?

Just had something to add to the post and didn't feel like editing.

[Poet]

No one's saying you can't be beaten. What I'm saying is that when you get beaten 'several' times a game by the top talents you're not going to be good.

Watch the video and note the holding that I pointed out - which occured while the dude was raving about Robinson. You can clearly see his hands clenching around his jersey as they both move to the top of the screen. That's one example that's fairly obvious. You keep saying that he owned him the entire game. Well, from what Terror pointed out, and that holding, it's hard to say that he owned him the entire game.

[slim]

I'm not sure what you are talking about, show me one Great LT that hasn't been beat by an elite rusher. You can't be saying that Robinson gets beat twice a game when he doesn't just because he got beat twice vs the number one pick? Who he owned the entire game? Whose team won 33-14? Clearly those little two times he got beat were irrelevant, and clearly he dominated Garrett to the point the coaches moved Garrett to the RT side in the 2nd half because he couldn't get around nor move Robinson.

I'm confused. Are you arguing in favor of Cam or against?

[DT88TheGreat]

Lol you guy's clearly don't know what you are watching, Von might not get a sack every game but von isn't played 1 on 1 consistently either, Garrett had all day to battle cam 1 on 1 to the point the coaches says abort abort abort and moved him to the RT side. That is owning your match up.

[DT88TheGreat]

I'm confused. Are you arguing in favor of Cam or against?

It's clear that I've been saying cam owned Garrett, the film dont lie.

[Poet]

Oh god.

The point isn't to say that you have to get a sack a game to be a good pass rusher. The point is that you can be beaten in more than just the obvious sack/QB hit. I pointed out one very clear way in which Robinson was beaten. You know, the hold.

Here's a thought - maybe the coaches moved him because he was doing fine in the matchup but because they, the Aggies, were behind, they needed to try to get a better matchup. All you're doing is say 'he owned him he owned him he owned him'. It's circular logic, or presupposes its own conclusion.

[slim]

It's clear that I've been saying cam owned Garrett, the film dont lie.

Are you a scientist by trade?

Just curious.

[DT88TheGreat]

No one's saying you can't be beaten. What I'm saying is that when you get beaten 'several' times a game by the top talents you're not going to be good.

Watch the video and note the holding that I pointed out - which occured while the dude was raving about Robinson. You can clearly see his hands clenching around his jersey as they both move to the top of the screen. That's one example that's fairly obvious. You keep saying that he owned him the entire game. Well, from what Terror pointed out, and that holding, it's hard to say that he owned him the entire game.

Garrett was owned by cam the entire game, outside of maybe 2 plays and you think that's bad on cam? Lol, the guy who is owned for 60 plays is the winner, and the guy who is owned twice is the loser...... That makes zero sense. I don't care how anybody wants to try and spin it. Garrett got owned. The film don't lie. The rest is opinions and that means very little when there's actual film.

[Poet]

Myles owned him the entire game! He owned him! Owned! Owned! Owned!

See how constructive that is?

[DT88TheGreat]

Oh god.

The point isn't to say that you have to get a sack a game to be a good pass rusher. The point is that you can be beaten in more than just the obvious sack/QB hit. I pointed out one very clear way in which Robinson was beaten. You know, the hold.

Here's a thought - maybe the coaches moved him because he was doing fine in the matchup but because they, the Aggies, were behind, they needed to try to get a better matchup. All you're doing is say 'he owned him he owned him he owned him'. It's circular logic, or presupposes its own conclusion.

All you are doing is making up hypothetical stuff that's irrelevant, maybe this maybe that, or maybe he just got his ass handed to him like the film says. So what If he held ONE time, holding happens almost every play. For 15 minutes of film he wasn't holding, he was stuffing his ass, pancakes and all.

[Simple Jaded]

He has been suspect on speed several times. Garrett also man handled him and pushed him around. LSU edge rushers beat him around edge too. I posted that as well.

I've seen all his Draft Breakdowns and He does get beat by speed rushers, most T's do. Garret is a 4.5 launching out of a 3-point stance, Robinson is a 5.1 going sideways and in reverse. The fact that he went toe to toe with the best DE in college should be a good thing.

Besides that, he's experienced in a pro style running game too.

I'd try him at LT as a rookie, can't be any worse than what they've had the last two seasons. If you can improve at LT in the future then do so, it's not like there's no spots available on this OL.

[DT88TheGreat]

Myles owned him the entire game! He owned him! Owned! Owned! Owned!

See how constructive that is?

But you cannot prove it, I've already proved it with actual VIDEO.

[Poet]

All you are doing is making up hypothetical stuff that's irrelevant, maybe this maybe that, or maybe he just got his ass handed to him like the film says. So what If he held ONE time, holding happens almost every play. For 15 minutes of film he wasn't holding, he was stuffing his ass, pancakes and all.

So the blatant holding doesn't matter? It doesn't matter that he was beaten on the outside and the refs missed a hold - it doesn't matter that he collapsed the pocket and the QB had to take off?

I guess the refs will always miss that?

[Poet]

I thought Cam owned Garrett in 2016 game, considering Garrett is an all-world OLB/DE prospect.

Look at this quote, for instance - considering how good Garett is, Robinson did well. Note that it's not 'considering how good Robinson, Garrett did well.

DT, you can watch that film again and see what NT is referring to. Robinson isn't built to stop the speed rushers in the NFL.

[Hawgdriver]

Look at this quote, for instance - considering how good Garett is, Robinson did well. Note that it's not 'considering how good Robinson, Garrett did well.

DT, you can watch that film again and see what NT is referring to. Robinson isn't built to stop the speed rushers in the NFL.

He is a Von..a Mack. Myles is unreal.

[Poet]

He is a Von..a Mack. Myles is unreal.

Robinson is going to die vs. NFL speed rushers. He's a guard or a RT with that frame. When you're a LT and your selling point is run stuffing you're doing it wrong.

[DT88TheGreat]

If Garrett is going to be one of the league's best speed rushers then cam is already battle tested because he dominated the match up. And quite frankly I am not going to be mad at all if he is the pick at 20. I don't have much against bolles either. The Wisconsin LT I'm not sure about yet.

[Hawgdriver]

Robinson is going to die vs. NFL speed rushers. He's a guard or a RT with that frame. When you're a LT and your selling point is run stuffing you're doing it wrong.

Cam is the #1 LT in this class. He's adequate. He's a starter.

The others? Maybe.

[Poet]

Cam is the #1 LT in this class. He's adequate. He's a starter.

The others? Maybe.

He really can't be the number one LT in this class. He has balance issues, losses to speed, and is a run blocker. The other guys were on par with his play and did it for one year. Eh. The Wisconsin kid will be the best LT in this draft. Maybe Bolles.

[Hawgdriver]

He really can't be the number one LT in this class. He has balance issues, losses to speed, and is a run blocker. The other guys were on par with his play and did it for one year. Eh. The Wisconsin kid will be the best LT in this draft. Maybe Bolles.

Let's revisit this in 2020, k?

[Poet]

Let's revisit this in 2020, k?

I'll be in law school - you'll never talk to me again, probably.

[Hawgdriver]

I'll be in law school - you'll never talk to me again, probably.

I like your attitude, mister.

[DT88TheGreat]

I think some people just don't want to use #20 on a offensive linemen or something, majority of the football people has him as the #1 LT, not number 1 guard. The Broncos desperately need a LT and if we can get the best one @ 20 who actually does have a 1st round grade it's a good pick for me.

Too Von, who exactly is more worthy of pick 20 than Cam?

[Poet]

I like your attitude, mister.

Gotta be a gunner - gotta dominate my class. Gotta be the best. No one else matters.

[Poet]

I think some people just don't want to use #20 on a offensive linemen or something, majority of the football people has him as the #1 LT, not number 1 guard. The Broncos desperately need a LT and if we can get the best one @ 20 who actually does have a 1st round grade it's a good pick for me.

Too Von, who exactly is more worthy of pick 20 than Cam?

I'd love to take a LT at 20. I think most of the first round guys are a lot better than what they're being credited. The class isn't deep - that's the talking point. Somehow that talking point means that the guys at the top are all trash.

I don't like big unwieldy LT's. I don't like guys with balance issues. I don't like LT's whose weakness is speed. I note that Alabama has a history of oversized LT's that don't project as NFL LT's - Andre Smith, anyone?

Peppers and Foster might be there.

[DT88TheGreat]

Well nevermind you said the Wisconsin guy. I don't know I have to do a little more studying on him, he actually looks slower than Cam though, and just as big.

[Hawgdriver]

I'd love to take a LT at 20. I think most of the first round guys are a lot better than what they're being credited. The class isn't deep - that's the talking point. Somehow that talking point means that the guys at the top are all trash.

I don't like big unwieldy LT's. I don't like guys with balance issues. I don't like LT's whose weakness is speed. I note that Alabama has a history of oversized LT's that don't project as NFL LT's - Andre Smith, anyone?

Peppers and Foster might be there.

Dude, maybe Cam's feet are ill, but his hands club baby seals and baby Von Millers. Like...he's got some juice, you gotta admit that.

[Poet]

Well nevermind you said the Wisconsin guy. I don't know I have to do a little more studying on him, he actually looks slower than Cam though, and just as big.

He's not as blobby as CR. He's also got better feet. He's not as strong though. Look, man, If we take CR I won't be mad. He can make in the NFL, it's just really slanted against him. However, we won't be paying him a ton of money like Okung, he should help in the run game, and truth be told if he's on par with Okung as a rookie he's still an asset that can get better.

You feel me?

[DT88TheGreat]

I don't lump guy's into a category just because some guy's who also played there didn't pan out.

Peppers is a very talented safety but we are 4 deep there, where would he play? He is a more athletic TJ Ward.

Foster? I can honestly say I wouldn't be mad at that pick either, our inside LB situation would be set for year's with him and Marshall. Only thing is the offense will continue to suffer unless we can find a steal at LT, or one of the guys on the roster pan out.

[DT88TheGreat]

He's not as blobby as CR. He's also got better feet. He's not as strong though. Look, man, If we take CR I won't be mad. He can make in the NFL, it's just really slanted against him. However, we won't be paying him a ton of money like Okung, he should help in the run game, and truth be told if he's on par with Okung as a rookie he's still an asset that can get better.

You feel me?

I feel you, however you got me really thinking about Foster now......

[Poet]

I feel you, however you got me really thinking about Foster now......

If we get Foster **** LT - we just punt the ball and score on d.

[DT88TheGreat]

I wish we had pick 20 and pick 21. Because I am really intrigued by Foster, I think he is a top 10 talent that will almost surely be there at 20, he would take the front 7 to another level.

[DT88TheGreat]

Damn I just really had a vision, I kind of really want Foster now man. With the upgrades on the DL, shane ray improvement, Von, shaq, Marshall and Foster in the middle, the no fly zone...... Damn

[NightTerror218]

I am hoping for foster. I dont like any of the tackles in 1st as a LT. RT or OG in 2nd sure. I did not like myles bull rushed cam for tackling behind line of scrimmage or getting pushed back toward QB.

[Ziggy]

So.....Bolles it is.

[BroncoJoe]

Much has been made of this year's tackle class. The draft "experts" seem to think it's weak at the top for tackles. While there may not be a Joe Thomas coming out, I disagree with their assessment. I think that there's 3 legit first round prospects. Here's how I have them broken down.

1. Cam Robinson- 6'6 322
I've never seen the experts so completely divided over one offensive tackle prospect. Half of them see a guy that can be a franchise left tackle, and the other half think he's either a right tackle or guard prospect only. He's a hulking presence at 6'6 322 pounds with long arms and solid base. He's nowhere near the athlete that other top tackles have been coming out of the draft, but has surprisingly good technique. He also played against some of the country's top pass rushers for multiple seasons. Robinson uses his size well in the run game. He can clear space quickly and is decent at getting to the second level. The one area that he struggles is against speed rushers. He's definitely not the 'dancing bear' type. Robinson may have the lowest floor outside of the left tackle position.

2. Garett Bolles- 6'5 297
Bolles has a different build than Robinson and Ramczyk. He only played one year of FBS football after transferring from a junior college. Bolles has freakish athletic ability for a big guy. At the combine he had the best 3 cone drill of all offensive lineman and was 2nd in the short shuttle. It backs up what the film shows. Bolles has the best feet in this draft. He excels against speed rushers and at getting to the second level in the run game. Bolles also plays with the nastiest demeanor in the draft. One scouting report said, "Bolles could start a fight in an empty room." It shows up in the way he finishes blocks. He has the highest ceiling of any left tackle prospect in this draft. Bolles has two things working against him. He lacks the upper body strength to anchor against elite power rushers, and he will be 25 when the season starts. With an NFL weight training regimen, the strength issue is fixable. How much the age issue will bother teams will probably vary from GM to GM.

3. Ryan Ramczyk- 6'6 310
Like Bolles, Ramczyk has only one season of FBS experience. He also transferred from a junior college. Of the top three, Ramczyk is probably the most starter ready prospect. He's solid in both run and pass protection. He has good size, good feet, and is a sound technician. Due to offseason hip surgery, he won't be able to do pre-draft workouts, but by all accounts he should be ready for training camp. Ramczyk has the lowest floor at the LT position in this draft. Even though he can't do workouts, the Broncos will have plenty of inside info on him. Tight end coach Geep Chryst is the brother of Wisconsin head coach Paul Chryst. If the Broncos want to roll with the most NFL ready starter, Ramczyk is their man. He may have the lowest ceiling of three, but I think his floor could be starting caliber.






Overall thoughts- All 3 are worthy of a first round pick. Something tells me that Bolles is the man if the Broncos go LT in the first round. He fits the new offensive line mentality to a tee. The age problem shouldn't be much of a problem considering two of the best three left tackle in the NFL are 32 and 35 years old. Also, coach Joseph has mentioned more than once that the Broncos need to find a left tackle that can stop speed rushers. The AFC west is full of them. Khalil Mack, Bruce Irvin, Justin Houston, Tamba Hali, Dee Ford, and Melvin Ingram come to mind. Cam wouldn't be a bad pick. If he doesn't work out at left tackle, I think he could be a Ricky Wagner type of right tackle, or move inside to guard. He has the kind of size and strength that you can't coach up. Ramczyk has a chance to be an effective day 1 starter at the left tackle position.

Nice prediction!

[Simple Jaded]

Ziggy-zoggy-Ziggy-zoggy. Oye! Oye! Oye!