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VonDoom
03-10-2017, 04:00 PM
Adam Schefter‏Verified account @AdamSchefter 58s59 seconds ago

Former Raiders OT Menelik Watson reached agreement with the Denver Broncos, per sources. Staying in division, defecting to rival.

Mike Klis‏Verified account @MikeKlis 21s21 seconds ago

Broncos reach 3-year deal with RT Menelik Watson. Former Raider has been in building all day touring facilities. #9sports

OrangeHoof
03-10-2017, 04:07 PM
Depth, I presume?

VonDoom
03-10-2017, 04:08 PM
Cameron Wolfe‏Verified account @CameronWolfe 1m1 minute ago

This doesn't solve #Broncos LT problem, but if he can stay healthy Watson probably will likely compete or start at RT.

Cameron Wolfe‏Verified account @CameronWolfe 3m3 minutes ago

Watson is a RT. Former 2nd round pick. Talented coming out of college, but hasn't stayed healthy. Just 17 starts in four seasons.

Andrew Mason‏Verified account @MaseDenver 36s36 seconds ago

Menelik Watson was caught in a vicious cycle in OAK w/ injuries costing him needed reps. Liked his potential in '13 draft, still like it now

VonDoom
03-10-2017, 04:09 PM
Depth, I presume?

If he can ever stay healthy, he can start. Looks like he's getting $6 million a year ...

Ian Rapoport‏Verified account @RapSheet 53s53 seconds ago

The #Broncos signed #Raiders OT Menelik Watson to a 3-year deal worth $18.3M, source said.

VonDoom
03-10-2017, 04:12 PM
I heard Watson was in the building all day - I guess they had time to work on this graphic, because this is pretty quick:


https://twitter.com/Broncos/status/840309165780267008

CoachChaz
03-10-2017, 04:13 PM
Depth, I presume?

Assuming he's past his injuries, he'd be our starting RT. Pretty good when he's healthy

Rick
03-10-2017, 04:15 PM
At the moment he will have to be the left tackle...because we don't really have one unless they think Sambrillo has suddenly improved.

Davii
03-10-2017, 04:21 PM
At the moment he will have to be the left tackle...because we don't really have one unless they think Sambrillo has suddenly improved.

I sent John a tweet saying I'd be happy to fill the role. I haven't heard anything back from him but from what I've seen so far he might be sending a message that he likes the idea.

CoachChaz
03-10-2017, 04:22 PM
At the moment he will have to be the left tackle...because we don't really have one unless they think Sambrillo has suddenly improved.

He played left tackle against Houston in the playoffs. Clowney had a sack and 3 pressures. Let's leave him at RT for now and hope we find something else for the left side.

Rick
03-10-2017, 04:28 PM
I sent John a tweet saying I'd be happy to fill the role. I haven't heard anything back from him but from what I've seen so far he might be sending a message that he likes the idea.

That should make Joel happy.

VonDoom
03-10-2017, 04:28 PM
He played left tackle against Houston in the playoffs. Clowney had a sack and 3 pressures. Let's leave him at RT for now and hope we find something else for the left side.

I agree. He's more naturally a RT, so why mess with him by moving him? We might still pick up a LT somewhere and there's still the draft.

VonDoom
03-10-2017, 04:32 PM
This is important to note too - Stephenson is still on the team as depth, but a decision will have to be made soon as to whether he's in our plans:

Nicki Jhabvala‏Verified account @NickiJhabvala 9s9 seconds ago

Donald Stephenson's $4M salary becomes fully guaranteed Monday if he's still on the roster.

NightTerror218
03-10-2017, 04:33 PM
He can play LT in a pinch. But he is prob pensiled it at LT with stephenson are right until we get another T

ManchesterBroncoLUHG
03-10-2017, 04:34 PM
I never thought I would see the day that a lad from Manchester would play for the Broncos! Just a shame he supports city. He was in the same bar as us last month for the Superbowl. If only I knew he'd be a Bronco then!

VonDoom
03-10-2017, 04:35 PM
Patrick Smyth‏Verified account @psmyth12 53s54 seconds ago

Broncos will introduce unrestricted free agent T Menelik Watson to the media today at 3:30 pm MT.

slim
03-10-2017, 04:52 PM
He has a nice bubble.

dogfish
03-10-2017, 04:52 PM
here's his injury history (http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/menelik-watson-player-injuries) , and it is in fact quite extensive. . . i did find the one bit of news i was hoping for, though-- there's only the one major, season-ending tpe injury. . . which was a ruptured achilles, and that's plenty bad. . . but it was two years ago, and he has apparently recovered sufficiently to play, which you'd expect at his age. . . he missed one game with a concussion a few years back, and the rest of it is all soft tissue stuff. . . lots of calf, ankle, and other leg stuff. . . our current training staff tends to do a really good job both preventing and correcting those types of injuries, and i'm betting the FO had a lengthy, detailed conversation with them before pulling the trigger on this. . . not that it guarantees anything, of course, but it's not exactly like we have a big list of quality options to choose from here. . .

john has always been upfront that he wants to fill as many holes as possible before the draft, and that's exactly what this does-- gives us a capable body at right tackle for the moment. . . the long view will get figured out eventually, but this is the kind of move that let's us draft a shane ray or bradley roby, instead of being boxed into taking a tackle there if there's not a good value on the board. . . even if we don't add a vet LT still, at least we only have one gaping hole that needs addressed in the draft. . .

CoachChaz
03-10-2017, 04:56 PM
here's his injury history , and it is in fact quite extensive. . . i did find the one bit of news i was hoping for, though-- there's only the one major, season-ending tpe injury. . . which was a ruptured achilles, and that's plenty bad. . . but it was two years ago, and he has apparently recovered sufficiently to play, which you'd expect at his age. . . he missed one game with a concussion a few years back, and the rest of it is all soft tissue stuff. . . lots of calf, ankle, and other leg stuff. . . our current training staff tends to do a really good job both preventing and correcting those types of injuries, and i'm betting the FO had a lengthy, detailed conversation with them before pulling the trigger on this. . . not that it guarantees anything, of course, but it's not exactly like we have a big list of quality options to choose from here. . .

john has always been upfront that he wants to fill as many holes as possible before the draft, and that's exactly what this does-- gives us a capable body at right tackle for the moment. . . the long view will get figured out eventually, but this is the kind of move that let's us draft a shane ray or bradley roby, instead of being boxed into taking a tackle there if there's not a good value on the board. . . even if we don't add a vet LT still, at least we only have one gaping hole that needs addressed in the draft. . .

Dump Stephenson, take his 4 mil and add 3 more and give it to Beachum. Done

dogfish
03-10-2017, 04:59 PM
Dump Stephenson, take his 4 mil and add 3 more and give it to Beachum. Done

damn skippy. . .

G_Money
03-10-2017, 05:02 PM
Watson was athletic as hell in college. If he still has that after the Achilles issues, he has the raw material to play LT - but it's raw. He doesn't have the pro reps or the experience you'd expect from his age. Just leave him at RT. And somebody hydrate that guy. As dog said, he's got so many soft tissue injuries that I have to wonder about his hydration and stretching routine. Or maybe he's being poisoned over there in Oakland. Either way, I like him better than Stephenson last year.

One thing at a time.

Timmy!
03-10-2017, 05:06 PM
That helps.

Denver Native (Carol)
03-10-2017, 05:21 PM
Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 34m

Common thread between Leary and Watson, they play with attitude. Last year, #Broncos lacked nasty personality. @DenverChannel

Cugel
03-10-2017, 05:37 PM
I agree. He's more naturally a RT, so why mess with him by moving him? We might still pick up a LT somewhere and there's still the draft.

There's no 1st year starting LT in the draft. There are some developmental guys who according to NFL experts would be 2nd round or 3rd round picks in a normal draft class. But, this is maybe the WORST LT class in decades. There might not be ONE SINGLE really good LT in this entire draft. But, because teams are desperate, some team will reach for a T in the first round. I just hope it's not Denver.

Reaching desperately to fill positions of need in the draft is something teams like the Browns do. Not Denver!

CoachChaz
03-10-2017, 05:41 PM
There's no 1st year starting LT in the draft. There are some developmental guys who according to NFL experts would be 2nd round or 3rd round picks in a normal draft class. But, this is maybe the WORST LT class in decades. There might not be ONE SINGLE really good LT in this entire draft. But, because teams are desperate, some team will reach for a T in the first round. I just hope it's not Denver.

Reaching desperately to fill positions of need in the draft is something teams like the Browns do. Not Denver!

Problem is...a reach in the draft might be better than our current alternatives. I'd throw Bolles/Ramczyk/Robinson out on the blindside before I sent Watson/Stephenson/Schofield/Sambrailo.

And as much as I condoned a Beachum signing in earlier posts...I'd still start the rookies over him at LT. Statistically speaking...both Okung and Stephenson were better than Beachum in 2016.

Denver Native (Carol)
03-10-2017, 05:46 PM
Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 4m

First version of #Broncos signing Watson. He brings unique perspective to the game. @DenverChannel http://bit.ly/2n8FaTf

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 9m

#Broncos Watson said he loves to play aggressive. Understands he was brought in to help line become more physical." @DenverChannel

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 9m

#Broncos Watson said he loves to play aggressive. Understands he was brought in to help line become more physical." @DenverChannel

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 14m

"We were rivals and now we are family. I have done a lot of learning. Looking forward to getting on the field" -- Watson. @DenverChannel

Ziggy
03-10-2017, 06:00 PM
What Watson and Leary bring is a physical and nasty attitude. You have to like the mentality of the linemen Elway is bringing in, even if you don't like the players.

CoachChaz
03-10-2017, 06:04 PM
What Watson and Leary bring is a physical and nasty attitude. You have to like the mentality of the linemen Elway is bringing in, even if you don't like the players.

Mantality? Sure. Quality? Not so much.

Other than Leary and Stewart...Elway hasnt brought in anything to write home about for 3 years.

Ziggy
03-10-2017, 06:06 PM
Mantality? Sure. Quality? Not so much.

Other than Leary and Stewart...Elway hasnt brought in anything to write home about for 3 years.

I love the Leary signing. Watson is a wait and see for me. He hasn't stayed healthy long enough to really figure out how good he can be. Maybe he's trash. Maybe he's not. I still love the mentality.

Jsteve01
03-10-2017, 06:24 PM
I love it as well. But agree with Chaz. as much as Kiz gets under my skin, I have to nod to his article today which questioned whether it was Manning or Elway that was the draw the last few years. We can't always expect people to just come to Denver cuz it's a great place and gots the the gosh darned GOAT running the team when we offer peanuts. So we end up signing guys like Watson and Stephenson. We would have been far better served to sign Schwartz last year and not keep this stupid shuffle going. I learned something when I lived in Philly and that was that if Andy Reid is ready to move on from a player. He's probably trash. Hence my frustration when we let the Chiefs find the o lineman who played Von the strongest during the Super Bowl run and then we signed the guy they dumped to get him.

Cugel
03-10-2017, 06:25 PM
Problem is...a reach in the draft might be better than our current alternatives. I'd throw Bolles/Ramczyk/Robinson out on the blindside before I sent Watson/Stephenson/Schofield/Sambrailo.

And as much as I condoned a Beachum signing in earlier posts...I'd still start the rookies over him at LT. Statistically speaking...both Okung and Stephenson were better than Beachum in 2016.

There are some total STUDS in this draft class. And at #20 the Broncos are going to be in a position to draft an elite TE, an elite RB in Christian McCaffrey who should have won the Heisman if the voting wasn't totally screwed by East Coast idiots who only watch the SEC, and a bunch of really good DEs who can rush the passer. I short, this is the WORST possible time to reach for some mediocre (at best) OT like Ryan Ramcyzk, Bolles and Cam Robinson. All three have major question marks.

I don't want any of them at #20. I want a star. And there are plenty of potential stars -- IF you can avoid screwing up in FA and having to draft a LT to fill a gaping wound!

O.J. Howard, TE, Alabama - "Howard could be a mismatch weapon in the NFL in the passing game while also being a quality blocker to be a three-down starter. Howard has upside and could be a dynamic NFL tight end. Howard has top-20 potential in the 2017 NFL Draft."

And what about Jabril Peppers who might fall to #20? Height: 5-11
Weight: 213 lbs.
Arm length: 30 ¾”
Hands: 9 5/8”

*40-yard dash: 4.46 sec.
Bench press: 19 reps
**Vertical jump: 35.5”
*Broad jump: 128”
*Best among linebackers (Peppers tied Wisconsin’s T.J. Watt for first in broad jump)
**Top five among linebackers
He can line up in multiple positions. If he's lining up inside, and the offense moves a guy outside he can go out and you're not in a liability in coverage.

I don't insist on this guy, but it points out that there's a ton of really great talent to look at at #20. Some guy will fall and you have to be ready to grab him, the way Elway did with Bradley Roby and Shane Ray, both of whom are Pro-Bowl caliber players.

,

Cugel
03-10-2017, 06:53 PM
Mantality? Sure. Quality? Not so much.

Other than Leary and Stewart...Elway hasnt brought in anything to write home about for 3 years.

It's strange. Elway can hit home runs like he did in FA in bringing in TJ Ward, Aquib Talib, Darien Stewart. None of them broke the bank, all are Pro-Bowl caliber players or better. But, on offense? It's been one failure after another.

I think they might keep Donald Stephenson as a backup RT. I sure hope they are still intending on landing somebody to start at LT though, because Watson is not that guy. He is not an upgrade on Okung. And we need an upgrade on Okung.

Hawgdriver
03-10-2017, 07:09 PM
Depth, I presume?

No.

Hawgdriver
03-10-2017, 07:10 PM
It's strange. Elway can hit home runs like he did in FA in bringing in TJ Ward, Aquib Talib, Darien Stewart. None of them broke the bank, all are Pro-Bowl caliber players or better. But, on offense? It's been one failure after another.

I think they might keep Donald Stephenson as a backup RT. I sure hope they are still intending on landing somebody to start at LT though, because Watson is not that guy. He is not an upgrade on Okung. And we need an upgrade on Okung.

Benefit of doubt, Okung and Stephenson were reasonable gambles. Some blame to coaching staff. Most to personnel dept. Their failure is way more than you'd expect.

Hawgdriver
03-10-2017, 07:11 PM
There are some total STUDS in this draft class. And at #20 the Broncos are going to be in a position to draft an elite TE, an elite RB in Christian McCaffrey who should have won the Heisman if the voting wasn't totally screwed by East Coast idiots who only watch the SEC, and a bunch of really good DEs who can rush the passer. I short, this is the WORST possible time to reach for some mediocre (at best) OT like Ryan Ramcyzk, Bolles and Cam Robinson. All three have major question marks.

I don't want any of them at #20. I want a star. And there are plenty of potential stars -- IF you can avoid screwing up in FA and having to draft a LT to fill a gaping wound!

O.J. Howard, TE, Alabama - "Howard could be a mismatch weapon in the NFL in the passing game while also being a quality blocker to be a three-down starter. Howard has upside and could be a dynamic NFL tight end. Howard has top-20 potential in the 2017 NFL Draft."

And what about Jabril Peppers who might fall to #20? Height: 5-11
Weight: 213 lbs.
Arm length: 30 ¾”
Hands: 9 5/8”

*40-yard dash: 4.46 sec.
Bench press: 19 reps
**Vertical jump: 35.5”
*Broad jump: 128”
*Best among linebackers (Peppers tied Wisconsin’s T.J. Watt for first in broad jump)
**Top five among linebackers
He can line up in multiple positions. If he's lining up inside, and the offense moves a guy outside he can go out and you're not in a liability in coverage.

I don't insist on this guy, but it points out that there's a ton of really great talent to look at at #20. Some guy will fall and you have to be ready to grab him, the way Elway did with Bradley Roby and Shane Ray, both of whom are Pro-Bowl caliber players.

,

I like OJ and C-Mac. Peppers quite the football player and obv intergalactic athlete, but I'd have to be a Wade Phillips or D LeBeau or Joe Woods to know exactly how that dude helps me win games tho.

Cugel
03-10-2017, 07:30 PM
I like OJ and C-Mac. Peppers quite the football player and obv intergalactic athlete, but I'd have to be a Wade Phillips or D LeBeau or Joe Woods to know exactly how that dude helps me win games tho.

I don't know they would consider Jabril Peppers but he is an intriguing athlete, isn't he? One problem with teams is getting the defense into the wrong personnel group and then shifting formation and now you have a mis-match with a RB or TE on an inside LB who can't stay with him.

That happened to Denver in the Falcons game. A lot. With Peppers able to play both LB and S he can cover the shiftier receivers and RBs in pass-coverage, but come up and stuff the run too. He's a freak athlete and there are always ways to use guys who have freak athleticism.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
03-10-2017, 08:03 PM
Peppers would spell the end of Ward,at least in a year or two, but it would give us a lot of versatility in our nickel and dime packages for a year or two.

Northman
03-10-2017, 08:03 PM
Oh noes! Elway didnt address Oline!


Meanwhile first two FA pickups are Oline.....

dogfish
03-10-2017, 08:14 PM
peppers is this year's honeybadger. . .

Ziggy
03-10-2017, 09:03 PM
Oh noes! Elway didnt address Oline!


Meanwhile first two FA pickups are Oline.....

But....but...but......they aren't the ones that everyone wanted! The sky is falling, the sky is falling!

VonDoom
03-10-2017, 09:08 PM
Here are the details of the Watson contract - two year deal with a third year option. Low cap number this year ($3.5 million), different from Leary's, where all the cap numbers are similar.

http://in-thinair.com/2017/03/10/menelik-watson-contract-details/

Jaded
03-10-2017, 10:40 PM
Do they need an upgrade over Okung at LT? Serious question. He's a legit starting LT in the NFL, not Ty Sampro.

CoachChaz
03-10-2017, 10:53 PM
It's strange. Elway can hit home runs like he did in FA in bringing in TJ Ward, Aquib Talib, Darien Stewart. None of them broke the bank, all are Pro-Bowl caliber players or better. But, on offense? It's been one failure after another.

I think they might keep Donald Stephenson as a backup RT. I sure hope they are still intending on landing somebody to start at LT though, because Watson is not that guy. He is not an upgrade on Okung. And we need an upgrade on Okung.

Until i see otherwise, I'll contend that Manning and his record breaking season brought those guys here.

CoachChaz
03-10-2017, 10:58 PM
peppers is this year's honeybadger. . .

Peppers may end up a hybrid like Buchanon in ATL, but i like Gil Brandt's idea. He's not a great safety...not a great linebacker...but he's a hardcore football player. Teach him how to be a running back and let him rip.

King87
03-10-2017, 11:11 PM
oh noes! Elway didnt address oline!


Meanwhile first two fa pickups are oline.....

but are they first rounders though!??!lwejgkweuqt34gej4qietjioqeorkjgkldakgajd sglkjaeglkjad

/wet shit party

NightTerror218
03-10-2017, 11:42 PM
Geez. Elway sucks getting offensive FA. That sanders guy was the worst pick up.

Joel
03-11-2017, 05:30 AM
I love the Leary signing. Watson is a wait and see for me. He hasn't stayed healthy long enough to really figure out how good he can be. Maybe he's trash. Maybe he's not. I still love the mentality.
This is where I am: Watson's a good signing IF but ONLY if he can stay healthy. $6M/yr to ride pine in street clothes would be a waste; otherwise, big step up from Stephenson. Now if only we could find a LT....

NightTrainLayne
03-11-2017, 08:49 AM
It's strange. Elway can hit home runs like he did in FA in bringing in TJ Ward, Aquib Talib, Darien Stewart. None of them broke the bank, all are Pro-Bowl caliber players or better. But, on offense? It's been one failure after another.


Peyton Manning, Emmanuel Sanders, Wes Welker. .. . one free agency offensive failure after another.

Nomad
03-11-2017, 12:53 PM
This is where I am: Watson's a good signing IF but ONLY if he can stay healthy. $6M/yr to ride pine in street clothes would be a waste; otherwise, big step up from Stephenson. Now if only we could find a LT....

Nice to see you around, Joel. Looks like BRONCOS are beefing up the oline.

Jaded
03-11-2017, 01:07 PM
This is where I am: Watson's a good signing IF but ONLY if he can stay healthy. $6M/yr to ride pine in street clothes would be a waste; otherwise, big step up from Stephenson. Now if only we could find a LT....

It's not a step up from Stephenson, it's a mirror image of the Stephenson signing last year. Superb athlete with minimal starts and long injury history. 3-year/$18 MM is the only step up, I believe Stephenson got 3-year/$15.

I hope they keep both and, with NFL coaching, proves everyone wrong.

Northman
03-11-2017, 01:12 PM
It's not a step up from Stephenson, it's a mirror image of the Stephenson signing last year. Superb athlete with minimal starts and long injury history. 3-year/$18 MM is the only step up, I believe Stephenson got 3-year/$15.

I hope they keep both and, with NFL coaching, proves everyone wrong.

I dont think they can afford to let Stephenson go. Still need quality depth in case of injury, ect.

Jaded
03-11-2017, 01:21 PM
I dont think they can afford to let Stephenson go. Still need quality depth in case of injury, ect.

I don't either but we'll find out by Monday.

I'm cool either way, but we did see him play good football before he was injured. Unfortunately, that's the story of his career. He might be a Top 5 athlete at the OL position, not counting freaks like Lane Johnson, Terron Armstead and Tyron Smith. He's moves like a big TE.

Cugel
03-11-2017, 02:11 PM
Peyton Manning, Emmanuel Sanders, Wes Welker. .. . one free agency offensive failure after another.

The last of those guys was in 2013. It is now 2017. "What have you done for me lately?" And of them, only Sanders remains on the team, so it's not like they are studs on the team 3 years later.

King87
03-11-2017, 02:14 PM
The last of those guys was in 2013. It is now 2017. "What have you done for me lately?" And of them, only Sanders remains on the team, so it's not like they are studs on the team 3 years later.

Yeah...how dare a thirty something slot WR and an almost forty year old QB retire...

What about letting Decker and JT walk? Those are also free agent moves. What about signing Okung in the first place, you know, the guy that you have been clamoring over to keep?

NightTerror218
03-11-2017, 06:22 PM
I think he will be penciled as LT as of right now. Goes with elway comment that he has experience at both tackles.

Joel
03-11-2017, 08:37 PM
It's not a step up from Stephenson, it's a mirror image of the Stephenson signing last year. Superb athlete with minimal starts and long injury history. 3-year/$18 MM is the only step up, I believe Stephenson got 3-year/$15.

I hope they keep both and, with NFL coaching, proves everyone wrong.
Yeah, still not buying Stephenson, such a "superb athlete" he never even got to START until KC released not one but TWO OTs who were BETTER. It's just hard to believe ANYONES 4th best OT is worth $5M/yr and a starting job. Watson was sidelined by injury; Stephenson was sidelined by PEDs and simply not being very good (hence the PEDs.) In one extra season, he's played twice as many games as Watson, but started only 4 more: Because KC had (several) better options.

Cugel
03-11-2017, 09:39 PM
Yeah...how dare a thirty something slot WR and an almost forty year old QB retire...

What about letting Decker and JT walk? Those are also free agent moves. What about signing Okung in the first place, you know, the guy that you have been clamoring over to keep?

Did Okung play well last year? No. The reason to keep him was that he was mediocre. And they don't have any LT who is even mediocre.

Cugel
03-11-2017, 09:42 PM
Yeah, still not buying Stephenson, such a "superb athlete" he never even got to START until KC released not one but TWO OTs who were BETTER. It's just hard to believe ANYONES 4th best OT is worth $5M/yr and a starting job. Watson was sidelined by injury; Stephenson was sidelined by PEDs and simply not being very good (hence the PEDs.) In one extra season, he's played twice as many games as Watson, but started only 4 more: Because KC had (several) better options.

Stephenson looked so good on paper we couldn't understand why KC let him go. Now we know. He's a guy who got paid the big $ and just decided to take a long winter's nap at that point. He disappeared and doesn't appear to really care.

I don't think they will keep him. Doesn't appear to be the kind of road warrior their other FA acquisitions.

Hawgdriver
03-11-2017, 09:44 PM
Did Okung play well last year? No. The reason to keep him was that he was mediocre. And they don't have any LT who is even mediocre.

It pains me to admit you are right, but that's where I am right now. We saw last year what a disaster a gaping roster hole can create (RT). It hamstrung the offense. Good teams attack the weakness. It's just Sun Tzu physics.

It's not camp yet, so I'm keeping the faith, but the OL situation in 2017 looks as grim at 2016.

Northman
03-11-2017, 09:45 PM
You dont overpay mediocre players.

Hawgdriver
03-11-2017, 09:46 PM
You dont overpay mediocre players.

I know!!!!!!!!


!!!!


I said it to Cugel!!!

But.




dude.


2016 RT

Cugel
03-11-2017, 09:48 PM
I think he will be penciled as LT as of right now. Goes with elway comment that he has experience at both tackles.

You mean Menelik Watson as the starting LT? I think they plan to keep him on the right side. All the really great pass-rushers in this division play over the RT - Kalil Mack, Justin Houston, Joey Bosa. You need your best pass-protector on the RIGHT side in this division. He's a really good RT. He wasn't a great LT.

It makes more sense to get a T in the draft - and I don't like that, but that's where they are.

Jaded
03-11-2017, 09:55 PM
Yeah, still not buying Stephenson, such a "superb athlete" he never even got to START until KC released not one but TWO OTs who were BETTER. It's just hard to believe ANYONES 4th best OT is worth $5M/yr and a starting job. Watson was sidelined by injury; Stephenson was sidelined by PEDs and simply not being very good (hence the PEDs.) In one extra season, he's played twice as many games as Watson, but started only 4 more: Because KC had (several) better options.

If you wanna stick with your "step up from Stephenson" take I suggest you watch the Raiders v Texans Wildcard Game and then the 2015 Chefs v Broncos regular season game. It's an interesting comparison, both Watson and Stephenson are playing LT and both are playing All-Pro pass rushers (Clowney and Ware). I'd start with the Raiders/Texans game because you also get great example of what a LT is supposed to look like (Duane Brown).

Watson looks far better at RT but this just might another example of you being wrong about a FA OL.

Cugel
03-11-2017, 09:55 PM
You dont overpay mediocre players.

You haven't been paying attention! You do exactly that. They need to get a LT in free agency because they didn't develop anybody they drafted over the last 3 years. They tried to get Ty Sambrailo over there, but he has been hurt and ineffective.

When you don't get your starting LT done in the draft, you have to find one in FA. And when you go out in FA you "overpay" that's what FA is about. Filling NEEDS through FA always costs "too much" which is why teams prefer not to do it.

If you FAIL in the draft for any reason, including bad luck or bad coaching, you have to address it in FA. And that always costs more money. The market is set by other teams.

And what you think of as "overpay" is nothing more than the normal increase of contracts because the salary cap keeps going up. So, players get more money. Every year. It's as predictable as the sun rising in the east.


"We need to take care of everything in free agency so that we don't have to go into the draft needing to do anything. And today's Friday, so that gives them two days over the weekend to get it done, before I talk about it on Monday." -- Alfred Williams.


It's just ridiculous to think they can get "bargains" in FA at their starting LT, when acceptable guys are so rare and all of them get premiums in FA. Whitworth was the best of them and he got $15M a year - despite being nearly 36 years old.

Matt Kalil was mediocre so he got $55M contract, $11M a year, $25M a year from MN.

Okung was mediocre so he got $55M, $13.3M a year.

Reilly Reiff was mediocre so he got $58.7M, $11.7M a year from Detroit $26.3 guaranteed.


"Ok, that signing makes sense. I told you I liked Reilly Reiff. That was my guy." -- Alfred Williams.

The oft injured Kelvin Beachum was mediocre so he got $12 M guaranteed.

They ALL got "overpaid".

Peyton Manning retired. No players are coming to Denver "to win a championship" and giving us a discount any more. Them days have gone.

Northman
03-11-2017, 09:59 PM
And when you go out in FA you "overpay" that's what FA is about.

Um no.

Overpaying players is one reason why Oakland spent so many years at the bottom of the division. I can give you countless players to prove to you if you like.

Hawgdriver
03-11-2017, 10:00 PM
Um no.

Overpaying players is one reason why Oakland spent so many years at the bottom of the division. I can give you countless players to prove to you if you like.

There is the argument that signing Watson to 6mm a year for 3 years is doing exactly that.

Northman
03-11-2017, 10:03 PM
There is the argument that signing Watson to 6mm a year for 3 years is doing exactly that.

Nah, its still pennies compared to what Okung is getting and he flat out sucked last year. At least Watson has an excuse as to why he wasnt on the field. Okung doesnt have one for why he sucked. Watson will be a low risk, high reward if he works out.

Jaded
03-11-2017, 10:05 PM
I think he will be penciled as LT as of right now. Goes with elway comment that he has experience at both tackles.

He doesn't stand a snowballs chance in hell at LT.

Hawgdriver
03-11-2017, 10:30 PM
Nah, its still pennies compared to what Okung is getting and he flat out sucked last year. At least Watson has an excuse as to why he wasnt on the field. Okung doesnt have one for why he sucked. Watson will be a low risk, high reward if he works out.

Okung was a mediocre starter.

Watson might be a 0.

Not pennies...60%

Northman
03-11-2017, 10:33 PM
Okung was a mediocre starter.

Watson might be a 0.



Exactly

Hawgdriver
03-11-2017, 11:01 PM
Exactly

Yeah, we'll see. I'm as hopeful as you I suppose, but I am more in favor of plans that look reasonable from a distance.

Northman
03-11-2017, 11:02 PM
Yeah, we'll see. I'm as hopeful as you I suppose, but I am more in favor of plans that look reasonable from a distance.

I dont know, ive been watching football for a long time and nothing ever goes the way it is planned either good or bad. Ive just learned to let it play it out and then start complaining. lol

Hawgdriver
03-11-2017, 11:05 PM
I dont know, ive been watching football for a long time and nothing ever goes the way it is planned either good or bad. Ive just learned to let it play it out and then start complaining. lol

Which seems absolutely fine, but it looks like the Broncos are backed into a corner as far as LT goes. Maybe that's the optimal solution. It just sucks, that's all I can make of it. It's not what you would expect going in to the 2017 Denver Broncos SB champ season, right?

slim
03-11-2017, 11:06 PM
I dont know, ive been watching Patriot football for a long time and nothing ever goes the way it is planned either good or bad. Ive just learned to let it play it out and then start complaining. lol

#ftb

Hawgdriver
03-11-2017, 11:07 PM
#ftb

I agree, don't you, North?

Northman
03-11-2017, 11:22 PM
Which seems absolutely fine, but it looks like the Broncos are backed into a corner as far as LT goes. Maybe that's the optimal solution. It just sucks, that's all I can make of it. It's not what you would expect going in to the 2017 Denver Broncos SB champ season, right?

Hard to say.

After Elway retired the Broncos never made it back to the SB until Manning came to Denver. Denver got to the playoffs most certainly but we never made back until 2013. Now, we have a pair of young QB's who are going to need some support around them. But thats not just going to include the line, we have to make sure we can run the ball, the defense which at this time is our crutch needs to be fine tuned again because it showed some weaknesses last year so that needs some work. I think the ultimate issue is we have to be able to find our QB of the future, no has beens or band aids. We need to find a legitimate guy going forward and start building around him. So is Paxton or Siemian that guy? Hard to say. But because we lost Manning we wont be going back to the SB this year, it just wont happen. If we get back anytime soon its going to be 2018 or 19 at the very least. Not everything that needs to be fixed on this team can be done in one year. In my opinion it just goes back to patience.

Northman
03-11-2017, 11:23 PM
I agree, don't you, North?

I do watch a lot of football including my Broncos so yea. I guess i agree. lol

Cugel
03-12-2017, 12:36 PM
Um no.

Overpaying players is one reason why Oakland spent so many years at the bottom of the division. I can give you countless players to prove to you if you like.

You're just peeing into the wind here you know. FA is described as "paying A+ prices for B or B+ players." That's so common among NFL executives it's like saying "the early bird gets the worm." A cliché.

Guys entering FA ALWAYS, but ALWAYS get more than if you re-signed your own players a year early and got them under a long term contract, and is always a LOT more expensive than a guy on a rookie contract for 4 years.

Players see FA as a chance to cash in. What we saw yesterday is exactly that. It was a bad LT class. The draft is worse, so those few FAs who were starting caliber LTs got "overpaid."

It's like you don't understand the law of supply and demand. Low supply, high demand equals high price. That's micro-economics 101.

You need to get the concept of "overpaid" out of your head. I tried to shock you into sense by pointing out that ALL the LT FAs got "overpaid". By definition if EVERYBODY got between $11M (Reiff) and $15M (Whitworth) a year then it's not "overpaid". They all can't be "overpaid" if everybody gets it!

That's just the market price set by the free market, baby!

Northman
03-12-2017, 12:47 PM
You're just peeing into the wind here you know. FA is described as "paying A+ prices for B or B+ players." That's so common among NFL executives it's like saying "the early bird gets the worm." A cliché.

Guys entering FA ALWAYS, but ALWAYS get more than if you re-signed your own players a year early and got them under a long term contract, and is always a LOT more expensive than a guy on a rookie contract for 4 years.

Players see FA as a chance to cash in. What we saw yesterday is exactly that. It was a bad LT class. The draft is worse, so those few FAs who were starting caliber LTs got "overpaid."

It's like you don't understand the law of supply and demand. Low supply, high demand equals high price. That's micro-economics 101.

You need to get the concept of "overpaid" out of your head. I tried to shock you into sense by pointing out that ALL the LT FAs got "overpaid". By definition if EVERYBODY got between $11M (Reiff) and $15M (Whitworth) a year then it's not "overpaid". They all can't be "overpaid" if everybody gets it!

That's just the market price set by the free market, baby!


No.

Cugel
03-12-2017, 12:55 PM
No.

Sorry, but I just curb stomped your argument and you come back with "no"? :laugh:

Northman
03-12-2017, 01:02 PM
Sorry, but I just curb stomped your argument and you come back with "no"? :laugh:


You didnt curb stomp anything. You talk out your ass like you always do. But then you go and cry like a bitch and play victim when people point it out just like you did yesterday. Welcome back to ignore.

Cugel
03-12-2017, 01:06 PM
Oh, no! Northman won't respond with stupid ignorance to my posts now! Whatever will I do????