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ShaneFalco
03-03-2017, 07:47 PM
http://football-players.pointafter.com/stories/29956/nfl-players-worst-hands-drops#6-TE-Virgil-Green-Denver-Broncos


#45 - TE Virgil Green, Denver Broncos

Drop rate: 5.41%

Targets: 37
Drops: 2
Catch rate: 59.46%

Northman
03-03-2017, 08:02 PM
http://football-players.pointafter.com/stories/29956/nfl-players-worst-hands-drops#6-TE-Virgil-Green-Denver-Broncos


#45 - TE Virgil Green, Denver Broncos

Drop rate: 5.41%

Targets: 37
Drops: 2
Catch rate: 59.46%


Was DT #1?


I kid i kid....

ShaneFalco
03-03-2017, 08:19 PM
DT did not make the list!

King87
03-03-2017, 08:25 PM
It's because DT is a beast and the expectations of what a 'drop' is for him is low.

He is my third favorite current Bronco.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
03-04-2017, 11:11 AM
It's because DT is a beast and the expectations of what a 'drop' is for him is low.

He is my third favorite current Bronco.
DT is far and away the most dominant receiver to ever put on a Broncos jersey.

King87
03-04-2017, 11:58 AM
DT is far and away the most dominant receiver to ever put on a Broncos jersey.

They bout to come for you!

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
03-04-2017, 12:23 PM
They bout to come for you!

I feel lucky

BroncoWave
03-04-2017, 12:28 PM
DT is far and away the most dominant receiver to ever put on a Broncos jersey.

Far and away seems a bit of a stretch. Rod Smith, Shannon Sharpe, and Brandon Marshall could probably make a case as well. DT very well might be the best of that group, but I wouldn't call it "far and away".

King87
03-04-2017, 12:33 PM
DT has had more dominant years than any of those guys as Broncos as a WR. Sharpe is an interesting point though.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
03-04-2017, 12:35 PM
Sharpe was a TE, not a receiver.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
03-04-2017, 12:37 PM
Rod Smith was good, but in the same category as DT? Please.....

Marshall was close, but too inconsistent while here.

Statistically speaking, DT is the most dominant. He already owns most of the receiving records and is still in his prime.

BroncoWave
03-04-2017, 12:37 PM
DT has had more dominant years than any of those guys as Broncos as a WR. Sharpe is an interesting point though.

Some might debate Sharpe because he was a TE but if we're being honest, he ain't in the HoF for his blocking. And I'd agree that DT has had the most dominant seasons of the group, but I wouldn't say he's head and shoulders above that group. Rod Smith wasn't as physically imposing so people forget about him, but he put together a long string of really impressive seasons before the NFL became the pass-happy, inflated passing/receiving numbers league it is today. And Marshall was a short-lived Bronco, but he put together 3 great seasons while he was here.

BroncoWave
03-04-2017, 12:38 PM
Sharpe was a TE, not a receiver.

That's a technicality. Yes he lined up as a TE, but his role was to catch passes. Like I said, he ain't in the HoF for his blocking.

King87
03-04-2017, 12:38 PM
Some might debate Sharpe because he was a TE but if we're being honest, he ain't in the HoF for his blocking. And I'd agree that DT has had the most dominant seasons of the group, but I wouldn't say he's head and shoulders above that group. Rod Smith wasn't as physically imposing so people forget about him, but he put together a long string of really impressive seasons before the NFL became the pass-happy, inflated passing/receiving numbers league it is today. And Marshall was a short-lived Bronco, but he put together 3 great seasons while he was here.

This conversation interests me. I have no stance. I can understand why someone might limit the discussion to WR, or include TE.

You two! Debate the points! Teach me!

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
03-04-2017, 12:39 PM
Sharpe was the most dangerous receiving TE in the game during his prime.

BroncoWave
03-04-2017, 12:41 PM
Rod Smith was good, but in the same category as DT? Please.....

Marshall was close, but too inconsistent while here.

Statistically speaking, DT is the most dominant. He already owns most of the receiving records and is still in his prime.

Go back and look at Rod Smith's stats, and keep in mind that this was during an era when Denver was a run-heavy team and he was playing with QBs like Brian Griese, Jake Plummer, and Elway at the end of his career when TD was carrying the load. He's very much in the same league as DT. I don't deny that DT has superior physical tools, but Smith's production wasn't far off of DT's, whose best numbers have come in our pass-happy Manning offenses.

BroncoWave
03-04-2017, 12:43 PM
This conversation interests me. I have no stance. I can understand why someone might limit the discussion to WR, or include TE.

You two! Debate the points! Teach me!

It really depends on how you want to frame the argument. If you want to limit it specifically to people who only played the position of WR, then I guess you can't put Sharpe in the discussion. But if you widen the scope to people whose primary job was to catch passes, then I think you have to include Sharpe in there, and while you still may not put Sharpe ahead of DT, he definitely has a case, and probably the best case of any of the other guys on the list.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
03-04-2017, 12:45 PM
Go back and look at Rod Smith's stats, and keep in mind that this was during an era when Denver was a run-heavy team and he was playing with QBs like Brian Griese, Jake Plummer, and Elway at the end of his career when TD was carrying the load. He's very much in the same league as DT. I don't deny that DT has superior physical tools, but Smith's production wasn't far off of DT's, whose best numbers have come in our pass-happy Manning offenses.

Dude, I've probably watched every game Smith has ever played. I don't need to go look at his stats. He was a great Bronco and belongs in the ROF. However DT is on pace to shatter every record Smith had, by the age of 30.
Smith was a very good player but he didn't have the ability to physically impose his will on people.
Inflated by Manning? How about the 600 yards he had in six regular season games with Tim Tebow, or 300 yards in two playoff games with Tebow?

Next....

Hawgdriver
03-04-2017, 12:46 PM
I hi-fived Mayor's comment about DT being most dominant because he is so physically dominant at the position. Brandon Marshall not far behind though, but he didn't wear the jersey long enough to compare.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
03-04-2017, 12:47 PM
I hi-fived Mayor's comment about DT being most dominant because he is so physically dominant at the position. Brandon Marshall not far behind though, but he didn't wear the jersey long enough to compare.

Agreed-

BroncoWave
03-04-2017, 12:52 PM
Dude, I've probably watched every game Smith has ever played. I don't need to go look at his stats. He was a great Bronco and belongs in the ROF. However DT is on pace to shatter every record Smith had, by the age of 30.
Smith was a very good player but he didn't have the ability to physically impose his will on people.
Inflated by Manning? How about the 600 yards he had in six regular season games with Tim Tebow, or 300 yards in two playoff games with Tebow?

Next....

I'm not denying that DT has superior physical skills to Smith, that would be a crazy argument to make. But Smith produced.

I'm not sure what records of Smith's DT is going to shatter by the time he's 30. He's 29 now, and still 300 catches, 3600 receiving yards, and 16 TDs behind Smith. Their career YPC are very similar (DT 14.1, RS 13.4) as well.

Again, I'm not debating you that DT is a superior physical presence, and his production is better. But it's not head and shoulders better, especially when you account for the types of offenses they have played in.

You can deny the Manning effect, but with more subpar QB play this year, DT's production hit a pretty steep decline. 90 catches, 1083 yards, and 5 TD is a pretty pedestrian season by his standards.

BroncoWave
03-04-2017, 12:54 PM
I hi-fived Mayor's comment about DT being most dominant because he is so physically dominant at the position. Brandon Marshall not far behind though, but he didn't wear the jersey long enough to compare.

Counter-point, he had 3 dominant seasons as a Bronco, which is only one less dominant season than TD had here, and everyone is fine with ignoring the longevity argument when it comes to TD. :D

King87
03-04-2017, 12:55 PM
Well, the dominance of TD is unprecedented and applicable in regular season and postseason.

BroncoWave
03-04-2017, 12:58 PM
Well, the dominance of TD is unprecedented and applicable in regular season and postseason.

No doubt, just making the point that people like to pick and choose when longevity matters. Marshall's stint in Denver was short, but you can't debate the dominance when he was here. I'd actually say he and DT are almost clones of each other physically and production wise.

King87
03-04-2017, 01:00 PM
No doubt, just making the point that people like to pick and choose when longevity matters. Marshall's stint in Denver was short, but you can't debate the dominance when he was here. I'd actually say he and DT are almost clones of each other physically and production wise.

I'm just here for the argumentation. I have no stance.

BroncoWave
03-04-2017, 01:05 PM
As a side note, I would have loved to have seen the numbers Rod Smith could have put up in a Manning offense. He would have been spectacular in that offense IMO.

King87
03-04-2017, 01:08 PM
As a side note, I would have loved to have seen the numbers Rod Smith could have put up in a Manning offense. He would have been spectacular in that offense IMO.

His route running ability was really strong, so he and Manning would have had a field day.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
03-04-2017, 01:11 PM
I'm not denying that DT has superior physical skills to Smith, that would be a crazy argument to make. But Smith produced.

I'm not sure what records of Smith's DT is going to shatter by the time he's 30. He's 29 now, and still 300 catches, 3600 receiving yards, and 16 TDs behind Smith. Their career YPC are very similar (DT 14.1, RS 13.4) as well.

Again, I'm not debating you that DT is a superior physical presence, and his production is better. But it's not head and shoulders better, especially when you account for the types of offenses they have played in.

You can deny the Manning effect, but with more subpar QB play this year, DT's production hit a pretty steep decline. 90 catches, 1083 yards, and 5 TD is a pretty pedestrian season by his standards.

Fair enough

Joel
03-04-2017, 01:12 PM
This conversation interests me. I have no stance. I can understand why someone might limit the discussion to WR, or include TE.

You two! Debate the points! Teach me!
It's a semantic point distinguishing WRs from TEs because the POSITIONS are distinct, even though both qualify as and so are often collectively called "receivers."

Basically, all wide receivers are receivers, but not all receivers are wide receivers. I'd make a Venn diagram for you, but I suck at art.

BroncoWave
03-04-2017, 01:12 PM
Fair enough

I think we're mostly on the same page, just a little off on the degree to which DT is better than other Bronco greats.

King87
03-04-2017, 01:14 PM
I think we're mostly on the same page, just a little off on the degree to which DT is better than other Bronco greats.

I needed this conversation. I suffer greatly, brother.

Hawgdriver
03-04-2017, 01:15 PM
I think we're mostly on the same page, just a little off on the degree to which DT is better than other Bronco greats.

Ain't that the best shit to argue about though?

BroncoWave
03-04-2017, 01:32 PM
Ain't that the best shit to argue about though?

I do get pretty hype about arguing semantics.

BroncoWave
03-04-2017, 01:33 PM
I needed this conversation. I suffer greatly, brother.

Happy to help, my style brother.

Northman
03-04-2017, 01:37 PM
Marshall was close, but too inconsistent while here.




Strange you would say that. Outside of his first season Brandon had over 100 receptions and over a 1,000 yds the next 3 years he was a Bronco. I personally wouldnt call that inconsistency.

BroncoWave
03-04-2017, 01:40 PM
Strange you would say that. Outside of his first season Brandon had over 100 receptions and over a 1,000 yds the next 3 years he was a Bronco. I personally wouldnt call that inconsistency.

It's too bad he was such a headcase, because he was great for us.

Northman
03-04-2017, 01:42 PM
Counter-point, he had 3 dominant seasons as a Bronco, which is only one less dominant season than TD had here, and everyone is fine with ignoring the longevity argument when it comes to TD. :D

Not only that but i would argue that Marshall has shined on other teams as well as he has gone over 100 receptions 6 times in his career all with different teams. Its pretty remarkable when you look at some of the QB's throwing him the ball.

King87
03-04-2017, 01:43 PM
Counterpoint - Marshall has been one of the most targeted players in the league, a some of that isn't because he's great.

HEAL ME!

Northman
03-04-2017, 01:46 PM
Counterpoint - Marshall has been one of the most targeted players in the league, a some of that isn't because he's great.

HEAL ME!


Im confused. Are you saying because the QB's were throwing him the ball that it means he wasnt great?? lol

Northman
03-04-2017, 01:48 PM
Just a point of reference if you are using targets to dismiss Marshalls legitimacy.


Marshall- 1583 Targets

Marvin Harrison- 1554

Randy Moss- 1741

King87
03-04-2017, 01:53 PM
Im confused. Are you saying because the QB's were throwing him the ball that it means he wasnt great?? lol

I'm saying that sometimes WR's get overtargeted because the QB force feds them the ball.

We've seen numerous WR's put up 'better' numbers than they should have because either the QB locks onto their guy too much. This isn't meant to 'dismiss' anything. It's a point of reference of context.

King87
03-04-2017, 01:58 PM
For what it's worth, a lot of people are saying Marshall isn't a HoFer. I'd have to check out where he is on the rankings, but he's been either a top five, or arguably top five WR for most of his career.

Northman
03-04-2017, 02:01 PM
For what it's worth, a lot of people are saying Marshall isn't a HoFer. I'd have to check out where he is on the rankings, but he's been either a top five, or arguably top five WR for most of his career.

He currently ranks 25th and a good portion of the guys ahead of him are already in the HOF. I think in the end Brandon belongs.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/rec_yds_career.htm

Northman
03-04-2017, 02:02 PM
DT currently ranks at 101.

King87
03-04-2017, 02:03 PM
He currently ranks 25th and a good portion of the guys ahead of him are already in the HOF. I think in the end Brandon belongs.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/rec_yds_career.htm

If he just gets 3k more yards he's 6th all time.

Joel
03-04-2017, 08:11 PM
For what it's worth, a lot of people are saying Marshall isn't a HoFer. I'd have to check out where he is on the rankings, but he's been either a top five, or arguably top five WR for most of his career.


He currently ranks 25th and a good portion of the guys ahead of him are already in the HOF. I think in the end Brandon belongs.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/rec_yds_career.htm


If he just gets 3k more yards he's 6th all time.
Interesting; where would that rank TO all time...? :flute:

Turns out the same rules and strategy changes that send ALL modern receivers rocketing up the career rankings do the same for the most productive modern receivers (because how could they not?) Near as I can tell, 12/10 of the "all-time best" WRs are playing right now. :tongue:

Jaded
03-04-2017, 08:20 PM
Rod Smith > DT

slim
03-04-2017, 08:21 PM
True. I've seen Rod dive for a ball.

Timmy!
03-04-2017, 08:26 PM
DT is highly under appreciated around here.

slim
03-04-2017, 08:30 PM
DT is highly under appreciated around here.

He is a good player.

BroncoWave
03-04-2017, 08:31 PM
DT is highly under appreciated around here.

This might not be the point you're making so forgive me if I'm off here, but I don't think it's underappreciating DT to say that guys like Smith, Sharpe, and B-Marsh are in his league.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
03-05-2017, 01:05 AM
Strange you would say that. Outside of his first season Brandon had over 100 receptions and over a 1,000 yds the next 3 years he was a Bronco. I personally wouldnt call that inconsistency.

Maybe my perception is skewed by the psychopathic outbursts. 😆

Mike
03-05-2017, 03:43 PM
He is a good player.

He could be better though...that's what irritates me about him.

Timmy!
03-05-2017, 04:25 PM
This might not be the point you're making so forgive me if I'm off here, but I don't think it's underappreciating DT to say that guys like Smith, Sharpe, and B-Marsh are in his league.

You're right, that wasn't my point at all. I fully agree those guys are in his league. No, I will never forgive you.

Freyaka
03-06-2017, 10:07 AM
It's because DT is a beast and the expectations of what a 'drop' is for him is low.

He is my third favorite current Bronco.

If it's a mile above him and grazed his fingertips, many see that as a drop for DT because dang it, grow three inches you lazy bum!

Freyaka
03-06-2017, 10:09 AM
DT currently ranks at 101.

With a good deal of his career still left.

Northman
03-06-2017, 10:22 AM
With a good deal of his career still left.

Well, we would hope. He could go out tomorrow and break his leg into 50 different pieces. Point is people were underestimating how good Marshall was both in Denver and elsewhere.

BroncoWave
03-06-2017, 10:29 AM
If it's a mile above him and grazed his fingertips, many see that as a drop for DT because danging, grow three inches you lazy bum!

This is just not accurate. Nice #hottake though.

Freyaka
03-06-2017, 12:35 PM
This is just not accurate. Nice #hottake though.

No, it's exactly accurate. Maybe it doesn't fit every poster here, but I've seen people bash him for a ball he had to hyper extend himself for that grazed his fingers. (and that's across the fanbase. Here, reddit, BC)

The DT hate is insane...I don't understand how he has time for football with all the dogs he must have kicked to piss so many people off.

King87
03-06-2017, 01:48 PM
No, it's exactly accurate. Maybe it doesn't fit every poster here, but I've seen people bash him for a ball he had to hyper extend himself for that grazed his fingers. (and that's across the fanbase. Here, reddit, BC)

The DT hate is insane...I don't understand how he has time for football with all the dogs he must have kicked to piss so many people off.
It's weird when we agree.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
03-06-2017, 03:07 PM
King-

Can we please discuss the alien squid? I want the owl back!

dogfish
03-06-2017, 03:26 PM
King-

Can we please discuss the alien squid? I want the owl back!

i believe that's cthulhu. . .

Northman
03-06-2017, 03:28 PM
i believe that's cthulhu. . .

It is but i think its a ploy that King now works for Hydra.

MOtorboat
03-06-2017, 03:33 PM
I would argue that most lineman, defensive lineman and linebackers all probably have worse hands than Virgil Green.

:coffee:

Freyaka
03-06-2017, 04:41 PM
King-

Can we please discuss the alien squid? I want the owl back!

Well, I see someone has never heard of H.P. Lovecraft.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cthulhu

Freyaka
03-06-2017, 04:42 PM
It's weird when we agree.

We agree more often than it seems....

dogfish
03-06-2017, 05:56 PM
I would argue that most lineman, defensive lineman and linebackers all probably have worse hands than Virgil Green.

:coffee:

dontari poe's hands may be better than green's. . . :coffee:

slim
03-06-2017, 06:14 PM
We agree more often than it seems....

I disagree.

BroncoWave
03-06-2017, 06:28 PM
I disagree.

I disagree with your disagreement.

Wait, what were we talking about?

King87
03-06-2017, 09:00 PM
Marshall is on this list. He has a lot of drops, even when you account for the percentages of balls thrown at him.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
03-06-2017, 10:16 PM
Marshall is on this list. He has a lot of drops, even when you account for the percentages of balls thrown at him.

He's always had a lot of drops

Jaded
03-06-2017, 11:51 PM
TMZ says they have video of a drunk af DT standing on a bar, shirtless, and screaming "**** Tom Brady"

He is hereby relieved of any misdoings and you guys are forgiven for judging him so cruelly.

MOtorboat
03-07-2017, 12:10 AM
TMZ says they have video of a drunk af DT standing on a bar, shirtless, and screaming "**** Tom Brady"

He is hereby relieved of any misdoings and you guys are forgiven for judging him so cruelly.

Wait. I think those who have judged him so harshly should now face some sort of public shaming.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
03-07-2017, 12:21 AM
Wait. I think those who have judged him so harshly should now face some sort of public shaming.

Without delay..

King87
03-07-2017, 12:25 AM
Without delay..

DT spelled backwards is TD.

It's a sign!

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
03-07-2017, 12:28 AM
DT spelled backwards is TD.

It's a sign!

It's earned RESPECT suckas!!

Freyaka
03-07-2017, 09:00 AM
Wait. I think those who have judged him so harshly should now face some sort of public shaming.

If anything I respect DT even more now.

slim
03-07-2017, 09:14 AM
DT is now my favorite player evah!

Northman
03-07-2017, 11:39 AM
TMZ says they have video of a drunk af DT standing on a bar, shirtless, and screaming "**** Tom Brady"

He is hereby relieved of any misdoings and you guys are forgiven for judging him so cruelly.


Pfffft. ....

Jaded
03-07-2017, 10:01 PM
Wait. I think those who have judged him so harshly should now face some sort of public shaming.

Forgive MO.

MOtorboat
03-07-2017, 10:08 PM
Forgive MO.

Shame!

Jaded
03-07-2017, 10:22 PM
Shame!

I was emotional, I was weak...damn yous!

MOtorboat
03-07-2017, 10:37 PM
I was emotional, I was weak...damn yous!

Shame!

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
03-07-2017, 11:08 PM
Shame-shame!!

King87
03-07-2017, 11:10 PM
I watched DT get blamed for so many awful passes this last year it was infuriating.

Valar Morghulis
03-08-2017, 05:48 AM
I watched DT get blamed for so many awful passes this last year it was infuriating.

Link me to one drop that he took heat for when in actual fact the throw was to blame.

Northman
03-08-2017, 08:40 AM
Link me to one drop that he took heat for when in actual fact the throw was to blame.

There were a couple in the last few years that people lost their shit when in reality the catch would of been hard to make. And not just during the TS era as Manning had some ugly passes, Brock too. But there's also some passes that DT should of easily had that he dropped quite a bit and in big moments. But ive also seen him make some spectacular catches in big moments so it all balances out really.

Jaded
03-08-2017, 06:56 PM
In all seriousness, DT is about as reliable as a wet fart. I expect at least one crucial drop a game.

slim
03-08-2017, 06:58 PM
In all seriousness, DT is about as reliable as a wet fart. I expect at least one crucial drop a game.

Shut up.

slim
03-08-2017, 06:59 PM
#ftb

Jaded
03-08-2017, 07:25 PM
Shut up.

#ftb