I am sure this has been discussed. Dan Reeves HOF? Why not?

[Broncoknight30]

Probably an old discussion, but whatever.

I think he deserves to be. He accomplished as much or more as Marv Levy or Bud Grant and they went mostly cause they took four teams to SBs. So did Reeves right? He proved he could win without Elway. He won with the Giants that one year. They were actually pretty decent until Simms was injured.

He certainly had success with the Falcons.

Also, he is tied with Belichick with most SB appearances. Reeves as coach/player has been to 9.

V, VI*, X, XII*, XIII, XXI, XXII, XXIV, XXXIII

Certainly an architect of a very innovative offense with the Cowboys. Also, when Reeves left the Cowboys slowly started to slide.

I think he earned a spot. If Levy and Grant are in, then he should be too.

[dogfish]

not only no, but hell no!

[Northman]

He will probably get in at some point but not anytime soon.

[Broncoknight30]

He will probably get in at some point but not anytime soon.

Why is Bud Grant and Marv Levy in there and not him?

[Simple Jaded]

Dan Reeves tried to trade John Elway.

[Broncoknight30]

Dan Reeves tried to trade John Elway.

Like I have said, every player is discussed in trades. If we knew who is discussed, you would probably be shocked. Every player.

[Joel]

Dan Reeves tried to trade John Elway.
The way I heard it, Shanny manipulated Elway into giving Mr. Bowlen an "it's him or me!" ultimatum. Anyway...

Reeves should've been a first balloter for all the reasons in the OP, but that's no sale in Broncos Country for the same reason 99% of Broncos fans considered beating Reeves' Falcons in the SB a bonus. He's also probably half the reason so many Broncos fans were so critical of Kubiaks tenure.

[Northman]

Why is Bud Grant and Marv Levy in there and not him?

No idea.

I just dont see it happening anytime soon but eventually i feel he will get there.

[Northman]

The way I heard it, Shanny manipulated Elway into giving Mr. Bowlen an "it's him or me!" ultimatum. Anyway...

Reeves should've been a first balloter for all the reasons in the OP, but that's no sale in Broncos Country for the same reason 99% of Broncos fans considered beating Reeves' Falcons in the SB a bonus. He's also probably half the reason so many Broncos fans were so critical of Kubiaks tenure.


http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1999-01-24/sports/9901240173_1_john-elway-reeves-coach-mike-shanahan


A feud that started in Elway's rookie season has grown to such proportions that it could command center stage much of the week ahead.


Aside from the obvious reason that Reeves was considering trading Elway, drafted Maddox to replace him, and then called out the Broncos and Shanahan prior to their SB matchup its quite easy to see for any Denver fan why they wanted to beat the shit out of Reeves and the Falcons.


Why now? Why this platform?

"I really don't know," said Shanahan, who spent seven years on Reeves' staff in Denver, four of them as offensive coordinator.
"I'm not trying to figure it out, either. I thought we were going to take the high road on this. Hopefully, we still can."
Too late. Not after Reeves lowered the boom. Not after he revisited old suspicions and pulled out the road map to the fractious past.


After Reeves continued to make accusations without proof,


Shanahan denied Reeves' charges and said he never told Elway of any negative statements Reeves made in meetings about the quarterback.

"It's totally untrue," he said. "And when I was there, Dan never said a word about it. Dan wanted to run the offense and he wanted complete control, and he really didn't want somebody with my type of personality around."

[dogfish]

Dan Reeves tried to trade John Elway.

seriously. . . he wanted to replace john elway with tommy maddox. . . the only hall reeves belongs in is the Hall of Stupid. . .

[7DnBrnc53]

Also, check this out:

http://static.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs98/news/1999/990120/01056576.html

Here's an excerpt:


The following season, Elway expanded his control, even participating in Tuesday strategy sessions. But as the season progressed, Elway's role diminished.

Eventually, Reeves regained almost total control of the play-calling. By season's end, he was sending in plays almost exclusively, much as before. The Broncos advanced to the 1991 AFC Championship Game, where they lost 10-7 to the Buffalo Bills.

During the offseason, Elway presented Reeves with a wish list: offensive linemen and big-play receivers. That angered Denver's offensive linemen, and perhaps Reeves, who proceeded to draft UCLA quarterback Tommy Maddox instead of Tennessee wide receiver Carl Pickens with a first-round pick.

The troubles didn't end there. In another move that hurt and humiliated Elway, Reeves fired Shanahan, who was not only Elway's confidante but his connection with the passing game.

Reeves even discussed a trade with Washington coach Joe Gibbs that would have sent Elway to the Redskins in 1991. Reeves insisted Gibbs had broached the idea, but Bowlen quickly squashed the idea.

Elway asks for more help, and the linemen and Reeves (maybe) get mad? Inexcusable. It just strengthens my belief that Bowlen should have gotten rid of him after the 5-11 post-SB hangover 1990 season.

I read an August 1993 issue of SI in the vault (it had Elway and Reeves on the cover). It seemed like Dan had everyone so uptight, and Wade was a breath of fresh air.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Didn't he take 3 different teams to the super bowl?

[Northman]

Didn't he take 3 different teams to the super bowl?

Two to my knowledge. Denver and Atlanta. He played for Dallas as a player.

[Poet]

If he had won a SB he'd have been in already. You can be a player without a championship and get in because you were a full-fledged style god...but a coach getting in without a ring is weird to me. All you can really do is judge a coach on winning. To a lesser degree innovations as well...

Man...

**** REEVES!

[Joel]

Two to my knowledge. Denver and Atlanta. He played for Dallas as a player.
He was also a player-coach (mainly due to injury) and was purely an assistant coach on all but one of Landrys 5 SB teams. They used to call him The Ring Man, because between N/AFC Champion and SB Rings he's got enough for BOTH thumbs—plus a SPARE.

[turftoad]

seriously. . . he wanted to replace john elway with tommy maddox. . . the only hall reeves belongs in is the Hall of Stupid. . .

This. ^

Not relevant to the thread but Reeves held Elway back big time with his run after run up the gut continually. Elways stats would have been much better if not for Reeves. Not that stats are everything but we would have been a higher scoring offense with someone else calling the plays.
I was soooo pissed we drafted Maddox, there wasn't any reason for it at the time.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Two to my knowledge. Denver and Atlanta. He played for Dallas as a player.

I thought he took the Giants, or at least came close.

[Joel]

I thought he took the Giants, or at least came close.
No, the Giants he just took back to the playoffs after they were garbage, but they turned right back into garbage immediately after that, so he wound up in Atlanta.

[Broncoknight30]

This. ^

Not relevant to the thread but Reeves held Elway back big time with his run after run up the gut continually. Elways stats would have been much better if not for Reeves. Not that stats are everything but we would have been a higher scoring offense with someone else calling the plays.
I was soooo pissed we drafted Maddox, there wasn't any reason for it at the time.

Elway technically passed more with Reeves. Elway's only season with 600 attempts was 1985 with Reeves. The fact is Reeves proved he could win without Elway. He took Chandler and the Falcons to the SB.

Reeves was better than fans give him credit for. I think Mortons best Stats season was 1981, for intents and purpose his last season.

Reeves proved he can coach. I watched all of Denver's games back then and Elway was not exactly as great as many proclaim. Blaming his inconsistent accuracy on Reeves is a bit ridiculous imo.

[turftoad]

Elway technically passed more with Reeves. Elway's only season with 600 attempts was 1985 with Reeves. The fact is Reeves proved he could win without Elway. He took Chandler and the Falcons to the SB.

Reeves was better than fans give him credit for. I think Mortons best Stats season was 1981, for intents and purpose his last season.

Reeves proved he can coach. I watched all of Denver's games back then and Elway was not exactly as great as many proclaim. Blaming his inconsistent accuracy on Reeves is a bit ridiculous imo.

I didn't say anything about being inconsistent. I remember the up the middle, up the middle constantly. Reeves was not a good play caller.
Fans were pissed. I was AT every home in 1985. Didn't miss a one.

[7DnBrnc53]

Elway technically passed more with Reeves. Elway's only season with 600 attempts was 1985 with Reeves. The fact is Reeves proved he could win without Elway. He took Chandler and the Falcons to the SB.

Reeves was better than fans give him credit for. I think Mortons best Stats season was 1981, for intents and purpose his last season.

Reeves proved he can coach. I watched all of Denver's games back then and Elway was not exactly as great as many proclaim. Blaming his inconsistent accuracy on Reeves is a bit ridiculous imo.

Not really. John also had some seasons (playing in 15 or all 16 games) under Reeves where he had under or barely over 500 attempts (504 in 1986, 496 in 1988, 416 in 1989, 502 in 1990, 451 in 1991).

Also, Morton had his best stats because of the system, not the coach. Reeves brought the Dallas offense to Denver, where Morton played from 1965-74.

[Northman]

Actually i remember those years quite well, it was pretty common knowledge that Reeves was a very conservative coach for most the first half of games which is why a lot of Elway's miracles were after he started passing more and making plays with his athleticism. You could say the passing stats during the Reeves era had more to garbage time because teams had been up on the Broncos early. Reeves was notorious for trying to force the run when it simply was not there.

[Softskull]

seriously. . . he wanted to replace john elway with tommy maddox. . . the only hall reeves belongs in is the Hall of Stupid. . .

Easy Dog. I heard the HoF is giving out lifetime achievement awards. It's like getting the gold jacket and bust but you don't get a gold jacket or bust.

[Simple Jaded]

Like I have said, every player is discussed in trades. If we knew who is discussed, you would probably be shocked. Every player.
How old are you, just curious?

He didn't "discuss" trading Elway.

He actually tried to trade John Elway, even "discussing" such a thing is reason enough to keep him out of HoF.

[Simple Jaded]

The way I heard it, Shanny manipulated Elway into giving Mr. Bowlen an "it's him or me!" ultimatum. Anyway...

Reeves should've been a first balloter for all the reasons in the OP, but that's no sale in Broncos Country for the same reason 99% of Broncos fans considered beating Reeves' Falcons in the SB a bonus. He's also probably half the reason so many Broncos fans were so critical of Kubiaks tenure.

Reeves tried to trade Elway to the Skins before any ultimatum. Keeping Reeves over Elway sounds like something you'd advocate, please tell me I'm reading that wrong?

Edit:

Oh, that's right, you're a Cowballs fan. I'm reading this just fine.

[Broncoknight30]

Actually i remember those years quite well, it was pretty common knowledge that Reeves was a very conservative coach for most the first half of games which is why a lot of Elway's miracles were after he started passing more and making plays with his athleticism. You could say the passing stats during the Reeves era had more to garbage time because teams had been up on the Broncos early. Reeves was notorious for trying to force the run when it simply was not there.

The Broncos offense in most of those years were ranked top 10 in offense. Elway was great, did very good things. However, he was a gunslinger. He was very inaccurate. He threw a lot of ints. His int/TD ratio was awful and we can't just blame ALL of that on Reeves. Reeves offenses from the Cowboys, to the Broncos, Giants and Falcons were all pretty effective.

Also, what I can't tell is if people are saying it is better to not be balanced. I can't tell if people are saying the Broncos did not really run the ball as much with shanahan which led to SB success.

You all watched those teams right? In XXXIII Elway had one of the worst statistical games or lowest rating for a SB winning QB.


They were absolutely committed fully to balance. BTW, QB still has not passed 600 times in a season and won the SB in that season. Top 10 passing offenses, only ONE won the SB. That was the 1999 Rams.

So, if Reeves was trying establish balance, is that a good thing or bad thing. Also, if things were that bad how did finish in the top 10 in offense and one of the highest scoring offenses each of those years?

Again, people will say it was ALL Elway. To that I am saying Reeves won without Elway. So, he proved he can win without Elway.

That is the truth.

[7DnBrnc53]

T
he Broncos offense in most of those years were ranked top 10 in offense. Elway was great, did very good things. However, he was a gunslinger. He was very inaccurate. He threw a lot of ints. His int/TD ratio was awful and we can't just blame ALL of that on Reeves. Reeves offenses from the Cowboys, to the Broncos, Giants and Falcons were all pretty effective.


He wasn't too inaccurate. And, he didn't throw a whole lot of INT's. You are making him out to be a cross between Favre and Tebow.

And, that was Tom Landry's offense, not Reeves. Steve Watson referred to that system as the Edsel system. He said something about how Reeves was more concerned with protection than attacking a defense, and there would be times where only three receivers would go out into the pattern.

In the Sept. 2, 1984 issue of SI (in the extra points section), Ex-49er TE Eason Ramson (traded to Denver in the off-season) basically said how confusing the Dallas system was. Another Bronco player (unidentified) said that there was no rhyme or reason to the offense, and that it was too much memorization. Also, Ronnie Lott said something about how Elway would be one of the passing leaders in the NFL if he was in their offense.

Also, here are the offensive rankings in points and scoring for those Giant and Falcon teams he coached:

Giants

1993: 288 points (18th), 5,145 yards (10th)
1994: 279 points (22nd), 4, 316 yards (28th, or last)
1995: 290 points (24th), 4,483 yards (29th)
1996: 242 points (28th), 3,942 yards (30th)

Falcons

1997: 320 points (18th), 4,716 yards (23rd)
1998: 442 points (4th), 5,487 yards (7th)
1999: 285 points (23rd), 4,542 yards (27th)-J
2000: 252 points (27th), 3,994 yards (30th)
2001: 291 points (23rd), 5,070 yards (15th)
2002: 402 points (5th), 5,535 yards (14th)
2003: 299 points (20th), 4,357 yards (29th)-V

J-Lost Jamal Anderson for season
V-Lost Vick for 12 games

As you can see, not a pretty picture.

[Broncoknight30]

T

He wasn't too inaccurate. And, he didn't throw a whole lot of INT's. You are making him out to be a cross between Favre and Tebow.

And, that was Tom Landry's offense, not Reeves. Steve Watson referred to that system as the Edsel system. He said something about how Reeves was more concerned with protection than attacking a defense, and there would be times where only three receivers would go out into the pattern.

In the Sept. 2, 1984 issue of SI (in the extra points section), Ex-49er TE Eason Ramson (traded to Denver in the off-season) basically said how confusing the Dallas system was. Another Bronco player (unidentified) said that there was no rhyme or reason to the offense, and that it was too much memorization. Also, Ronnie Lott said something about how Elway would be one of the passing leaders in the NFL if he was in their offense.

Also, here are the offensive rankings in points and scoring for those Giant and Falcon teams he coached:

Giants

1993: 288 points (18th), 5,145 yards (10th)
1994: 279 points (22nd), 4, 316 yards (28th, or last)
1995: 290 points (24th), 4,483 yards (29th)
1996: 242 points (28th), 3,942 yards (30th)

Falcons

1997: 320 points (18th), 4,716 yards (23rd)
1998: 442 points (4th), 5,487 yards (7th)
1999: 285 points (23rd), 4,542 yards (27th)-J
2000: 252 points (27th), 3,994 yards (30th)
2001: 291 points (23rd), 5,070 yards (15th)
2002: 402 points (5th), 5,535 yards (14th)
2003: 299 points (20th), 4,357 yards (29th)-V

J-Lost Jamal Anderson for season
V-Lost Vick for 12 games

As you can see, not a pretty picture.

Elway was probably the best QB prospect for the west coast offense. Although he did prove he could successfully run the 70s cowboys Staubach offense, he was best suited for the west coast.

Bill Walsh was actually interested in him. If we (those of uswho are old enough) remember that 1982 49ers team came off of a 3-6 season and Montanas production fell off.

Elway, who thrived at Stanford ran the west coast system there that Walsh had brought to Stanford a few years before. So, he had the nomenclature down, the athletic ability etc etc.

Would have been interesting to see him operate it when he was more physically gifted in his younger years.

I think Reeves gets a bit of a bad rap with those giants teams. He really turned the team around in 1993 after the Giants horrible season of 1992. They lost simms and they did not recover.

The Falcons certainly had success and then they ran into big injury problems.

Reeves proved he could win without Elway. Like I said, if he was attempting to find balance, then that is good. He was not a Marty schottenheimer. He was more dynamic than that.

[Northman]

Lol,

how do you finish in the bottom of the league in offense for most of your tenure elsewhere and then try and say he gets a bad rap? Thats ridiculous and you know it. You made a statement initially that he was in the top 10 with his offenses to which you were proven wrong by another poster only to rurn around and say "yea but". No, it doesnt work like that. Here is his win/loss record after not having Elway as a QB.

4 yrs with Giants.


Win/loss- 30-33




7 Years with Falcons.


Win/Loss- 43-59


Sorry, that is not the epitome of success there. That is what we call "average". I really hate coming down on Reeves this hard but i think people are smoking crack in believing he was actually better than he really was. Using an injury excuse doesnt fly either because every team and every coach faces that. Even Shanahan faced injury issues post Elway and still managed to post a better win/loss record with the Broncos. Like i said, i think Reeves eventually gets in but it will be a very long time before it does happen. One of those reasons is because he was the coach of the Broncos who have a hard enough time just getting players in.

[Broncoknight30]

Lol,

how do you finish in the bottom of the league in offense for most of your tenure elsewhere and then try and say he gets a bad rap? Thats ridiculous and you know it. You made a statement initially that he was in the top 10 with his offenses to which you were proven wrong by another poster only to rurn around and say "yea but". No, it doesnt work like that. Here is his win/loss record after not having Elway as a QB.

4 yrs with Giants.


Win/loss- 30-33




7 Years with Falcons.


Win/Loss- 43-59


Sorry, that is not the epitome of success there. That is what we call "average". I really hate coming down on Reeves this hard but i think people are smoking crack in believing he was actually better than he really was. Using an injury excuse doesnt fly either because every team and every coach faces that. Even Shanahan faced injury issues post Elway and still managed to post a better win/loss record with the Broncos. Like i said, i think Reeves eventually gets in but it will be a very long time before it does happen. One of those reasons is because he was the coach of the Broncos who have a hard enough time just getting players in.

I said the Broncos were a top 10 offense virtually every year. I said he had a top 10 offense with the Giants with that one year he had with simms and he had success with the falcons.

With the Falcons and giants he had significant success and had significant injuriea. He did have top 10 offenses with them.

I said virtually every year WITH THE BRONCOS. The fact is he won without Elway and he did.

[Northman]

The fact is he won without Elway and he did.

Yea, and he lost quite a few games as well. Its also a fact he isnt in the HOF so there is that.

[Poet]

He is a rich man's version of Marvin Lewis.

I said it.

I SAID IT!

[Broncoknight30]

Yea, and he lost quite a few games as well. Its also a fact he isnt in the HOF so there is that.

Neither is Randy Gradishar. So much for who deserves to be in and who doesn't deserve to be there.

Fact is Reeves has accomplished more than Levy in their careers.

Reeves has 201 total wins while Levy has 143...including play offs.

Levy is in and Reeves is not. Does not make much sense.

[Northman]

Neither is Randy Gradishar. So much for who deserves to be in and who doesn't deserve to be there.

Fact is Reeves has accomplished more than Levy in their careers.

Reeves has 201 total wins while Levy has 143...including play offs.

Levy is in and Reeves is not. Does not make much sense.


Levy coached for 17 years while Reeves coached for 23 years. In other words it does kind of make sense as Levy accumulated more a better win percentage in less time as a coach.

Levy had 19 playoff wins and 11 losses in less time that it took Reeves to get 20 wins and 11 losses. So yea, i does kind of make sense why Levy is in first.

[Broncoknight30]

Levy coached for 17 years while Reeves coached for 23 years. In other words it does kind of make sense as Levy accumulated more a better win percentage in less time as a coach.

Levy had 19 playoff wins and 11 losses in less time that it took Reeves to get 20 wins and 11 losses. So yea, i does kind of make sense why Levy is in first.

Not really. Since many of those wins were with the same QB and same basic team. Did he have significant success with the Chiefs? I guess he had some with Bill Kenney and Joe Delaney (rip.)

Like I said though, when you factor in Reeves having 9 SB appearances as player/coach along with two rings being OC for the Cowboys.

Like I said, more success.

[Poet]

Did he revolutionize the game? No.

Did he win a SB? No.

Did he even change the game? No.

What did he do that was great?

[Northman]

Did he have significant success with the Chiefs?

.

His success was about on par with Reeves when he was with the Giants and Falcons. But again, longer career.

[Northman]

Did he revolutionize the game? No.

Did he win a SB? No.

Did he even change the game? No.

What did he do that was great?


Reeves is the Trevor Siemian of coaching.

[Poet]

Reeves is the Trevor Siemian of coaching.

All this hate I have...now can find a home....

[dogfish]

Did he revolutionize the game? No.

Did he win a SB? No.

Did he even change the game? No.

What did he do that was great?

he was known for horrible game plans, and getting the least out of his players. . . he sucked. . . i wouldn't let that fraud in the Hall if he bought a full priced ticket-- he would undoubtedly find a way to tarnish elway's bust. . .

reeves in the Hall of Fame. . . thanks for the laugh, knight! :spit: :rofl:

[Poet]

he was known for horrible game plans, and getting the least out of his players. . . he sucked. . . i wouldn't let that fraud in the Hall if he bought a full priced ticket-- he would undoubtedly find a way to tarnish elway's bust. . .

reeves in the Hall of Fame. . . thanks for the laugh, knight! :spit: :rofl:

As far as I can tell, he was like John Fox - a horrible leader of men but likable and could help your franchise turn it around.

But the fact that he's secretly TS' daddy?


I SHALL NOT STAND FOR THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Broncoknight30]

Did he revolutionize the game? No.

Did he win a SB? No.

Did he even change the game? No.

What did he do that was great?

The Cowboys offenses of the 70s were very innovative and yes he does have SB rings. Two. One where he crushed the crush and the other where they demolished the Dolphins defense.

What he accomplished was ACTUALLY more than Levy, considering he led two franchises to two SBs with TWO different QBs. Levy can't say that.

Reeves deserves it as much or more AS Levy.

[Poet]

The Cowboys offenses of the 70s were very innovative and yes he does have SB rings. Two. One where he crushed the crush and the other where they demolished the Dolphins defense.

What he accomplished was ACTUALLY more than Levy, considering he led two franchises to two SBs with TWO different QBs. Levy can't say that.

Reeves deserves it as much or more than Levy.

Was he the head coach for those rings?

He was the head coach for the Cowboys?

[Broncoknight30]

Was he the head coach for those rings?

He was the head coach for the Cowboys?

No, he was OC for the Cowboys in XII and a player in VI. Two rings though. Does Levy have any at all?

[Hawgdriver]

unsubscribe lol

[Poet]

No, he was OC for the Cowboys in XII and a player in VI. Two rings though. Does Levy have any at all?

So you don't get the fact that as a head coach he has no rings?

[Broncoknight30]

unsubscribe lol

Why, cause he has more wins than Levy?

[Broncoknight30]

So you don't get the fact that as a head coach he has no rings?

That is not what I claimed. Is it? He accomplished as much or more as Levy. Truth? Yeah, truth.

[Hawgdriver]

Why, cause he has more wins than Levy?

This thread brings very little win to my life. No offense. Carry on with this important discussion.

[Poet]

That is not what I claimed. Is it? He accomplished as much or more as Levy. Truth? Yeah, truth.

You're talking about inducting him as a head coach.

So his rings as a player, or a coordinator don't matter.

If I have to take a HC who doesn't have a ring, I'd rather take the guy who helped get his team to four straight SB's.

Then again, I think you have to have won a championship in your day to be a HoF HC, but that's just me.

So sure, maybe, arguably, Reeves had the better career in in football overall. But as a head coach...nope.

[Broncoknight30]

You're talking about inducting him as a head coach.

So his rings as a player, or a coordinator don't matter.

If I have to take a HC who doesn't have a ring, I'd rather take the guy who helped get his team to four straight SB's.

Then again, I think you have to have won a championship in your day to be a HoF HC, but that's just me.

So sure, maybe, arguably, Reeves had the better career in in football overall. But as a head coach...nope.

It is the PRO football Hof. As a head.coach he had more wins. Who cares if he coached more years.

Levy never proved he could have significant success without Kelly and that team Polian put together. I am not saying Levy does not deserve it.

Dan Reeves accomplished at least as much as Levy. Btw, Bud Grant was 10-12 in the play offs.

You all just hate Reeves and your biased POV blocks it. He deserves it.

[Poet]

It is the PRO football Hof. As a head.coach he had more wins. Who cares if he coached more years.

Levy never proved he could have significant success without Kelly and that team Polian put together. I am not saying Levy does not deserve it.

Dan Reeves accomplished at least as much as Levy. Btw, Bud Grant was 10-12 in the play offs.

You all just hate Reeves and your biased POV blocks it. He deserves it.

You get inducted into the HoF at a position or a title. Like wide receiver, or tight end...or head coach. How do you not know this?

Levy proved he could break a record in regards to consecutive SB's and help maintain a prolific and record setting offense. The best teams ever could not get back to the big dance four times in a row. That in and of itself is pretty damn marvelous. I think that's more of a milestone than coming up short at various places.

[Broncoknight30]

You get inducted into the HoF at a position or a title. Like wide receiver, or tight end...or head coach. How do you not know this?

Levy proved he could break a record in regards to consecutive SB's and help maintain a prolific and record setting offense. The best teams ever could not get back to the big dance four times in a row. That in and of itself is pretty damn marvelous. I think that's more of a milestone than coming up short at various places.
There are all sorts of people who are in the HOF who never played one play in the NFL.

Just saying.

I am not saying Levy does not deserve it. 4 in a row is great. I mean 3 out of 4 years is not that far off of that, which Reeves did.

Oh, wait. Levy did coach the Chicago Blitz one year in the USFL and led them to a 5-13 record. :)

[Poet]

There are all sorts of people who are in the HOF who never played one play in the NFL.

Just saying.

I am not saying Levy does not deserve it. 4 in a row is great. I mean 3 out of 4 years is not that far off of that, which Reeves did.

Oh, wait. Levy did coach the Chicago Blitz one year in the USFL and led them to a 5-13 record. :)


How does your first sentence refute the point that you go in as a position? Head coach is a position in the NFL and on the team, broham.

[Broncoknight30]

How does your first sentence refute the point that you go in as a position? Head coach is a position in the NFL and on the team, broham.
True. I read that after I posted it.

[7DnBrnc53]

he was known for horrible game plans, and getting the least out of his players. . . he sucked. . . i wouldn't let that fraud in the Hall if he bought a full priced ticket-- he would undoubtedly find a way to tarnish elway's bust. . .

reeves in the Hall of Fame. . . thanks for the laugh, knight! :spit: :rofl:

He got the least out of his players because he tried to fit square pegs in round holes. And, he was very uptight and grouchy. After their 27-0 loss to the Bears in Week 2 of the 1984 season, Louis Wright called him an ogre because he felt like Dan was driving the team too hard.

[Joel]

Well, you have your answer at any rate: Reeves' supporters are mostly in Dallas and Georgia, because Broncos fans not only don't advocate for his HoF candidacy, but actively advocate against it. So Danny White and Sammy Winder will reach Canton before he does.

[Nomad]

Dan Reeves tried to trade John Elway.


This. ^

Not relevant to the thread but Reeves held Elway back big time with his run after run up the gut continually. Elways stats would have been much better if not for Reeves. Not that stats are everything but we would have been a higher scoring offense with someone else calling the plays.
I was soooo pissed we drafted Maddox, there wasn't any reason for it at the time.

What they said^^^^^^!

[slim]

You get inducted into the HoF at a position or a title. Like wide receiver, or tight end...or head coach.

This is incorrect. There is a category for "contributors". An individual may be inducted as a contributor where all of their achievements are considered. For example, Al Davis was inducted as a contributor with a resume that included Owner, Head Coach and Commissioner of the AFL.

Likewise, Dan could be inducted as a contributor, with weight given to his coaching and playing days.

[Poet]

This is incorrect. There is a category for "contributors". An individual may be inducted as a contributor where all of their achievements are considered. For example, Al Davis was inducted as a contributor with a resume that included Owner, Head Coach and Commissioner of the AFL.

Likewise, Dan could be inducted as a contributor, with weight given to his coaching and playing days.

Nah, dawg. The formalities ain't going to cut it here.


That sum bitch was a coach. We remember him for being a coach. Davis got in as an owner. No one cared about him being a head coach. Those are things you put in there as they happened, but that's not what we're really talking about.

I feel you though.

[Joel]

Nah, dawg. The formalities ain't going to cut it here.

That sum bitch was a coach. We remember him for being a coach.
You remember him as a coach; my dad remembered him as the starting RB for a couple SB contenders and a backup for a champion.

[Simple Jaded]

I knew it, the only people that think Reeves is a HoFer is the old af Cowballs fans that romanticize his being a backup RB who can throw.

[Poet]

You remember him as a coach; my dad remembered him as the starting RB for a couple SB contenders and a backup for a champion.

He's best and most known as a head coach. I don't care what old people remember him as. For his bulk of NFL contributions, for what he actually did that 'mattered' in the grand scheme of things, he was a HC.

[Simple Jaded]

The just don't make like they used to, Kinger, we could use a man like Herbert Hoover again.

[Simple Jaded]

Oh btw, that Romo tread reminded me of something; any Cowballs fan old enough to remember Dan Reeves as a backup RB who can throw simply can not be a Broncos fan. It's like being a Seahags fan.

[Northman]

I think Joel admittedly stated a while back he was a Houston Oilers fan. Not sure how he became a Broncos fan or interested in them but he has claimed to be a Oilers fan from way back. Which explains his like for the Texans as well i guess.

[Poet]

I think Kubiak to the Texans had to spark that love. Joel's a Texas boy.

[Simple Jaded]

I think Joel admittedly stated a while back he was a Houston Oilers fan. Not sure how he became a Broncos fan or interested in them but he has claimed to be a Oilers fan from way back. Which explains his like for the Texans as well i guess.

Oilers, Cowballs, Texans, Broncos, Germany, London, Goeff Schwartz...Kayvon Webster.

[Joel]

I think Joel admittedly stated a while back he was a Houston Oilers fan. Not sure how he became a Broncos fan or interested in them but he has claimed to be a Oilers fan from way back. Which explains his like for the Texans as well i guess.
I've actually explained that several times: The SOB who owned the team I grew up with LEFT TOWN. How many people in Baltimore are still Colts fans? How many people in Cleveland are still Ravens fans? How Falco feel about the Rams (or Cardinals) even though the Rams merely RETURNED to the city that was their home longer than St. Louis was?

I probably would've simply stuck with my dads Cowboys and their awesome line (if only in memoriam, since he died the year before their last SB win) but, believe it or not, it's very hard for anyone raised on Landry and Staubachs Boy Scouts to stomach Jerrys prima donnas, thugs and crackheads. So I had to look elsewhere, and the lineman fan in me turned to Denver.

Part of it was a personal challenge: When SF denied Dallas' threepeat bid in the NFCCG, it was pretty obvious they'd be out for blood the following season, and when Dallas ended Favres first real championship bid it was equally obvious GB would respond the same way. At that point the question became "did I pick the SB Champs in PRESEASON two years running because I'm lucky, or...?" So when my gut said Denver—even though the AFC hadn't won a SB in THIRTEEN YEARS (and Denver had never done more than get BLOWN OUT four times) I went all the way out on that limb, even staying there to call the repeat. Had a nice little streak going by then, until I did something my very DNA should've warned me against it:

Pick the Oilers. I ain't even mad at the Rams though; that team was doomed to futility (at least) as long as Dud Adams was alive.


I think Kubiak to the Texans had to spark that love. Joel's a Texas boy.
Native Houstonian, man; just the right age that my earliest memories include Bum and Earls Luv Ya Blue teams. The ones where fellow Houston-native Gary Kubiak was a ball boy. It's OK though; I don't expect foreigners to understand. ;)

[Poet]

This explains why you can do the almost impossible trick of overrating the value of an offensive line. It makes so much sense.

[OrangeHoof]

My thinking isn't so much that Reeves doesn't belong but why do Levy and Grant? I dunno other than their SBs losses came in a run to make them look like the second-strongest teams of that era. Putting Reeves into the Hall is like putting Marty Schottenheimer or Andy Reid in the Hall. You could make a case but it's not much of one.

[Poet]

Levy at least made history. I understand the point, OH.

[7DnBrnc53]

Pick the Oilers. I ain't even mad at the Rams though; that team was doomed to futility (at least) as long as Dud Adams was alive.

Adams' moronic style really showed itself in the early-90's after the WC loss at Buffalo. First, he keeps the guy (Pardee) that he should have fired, and then he did what you should never do: Give the team an ultimatum (the Cards and Bidwill learned the same lesson with Bugel that year). Then, he brought in Buddy Ryan (which wasn't a good idea with a weak coach).

When the Oilers came up short again, and several players left (like Moon), the coach stayed for some reason. Why? Adams and Floyd Reese totally bungled a team that should have been in a SB or two. They should have fired Pardee in Jan. 93 and brought in the aforementioned Reeves (then, if you want to bring in Ryan, that's OK if Dan would allow it), and they should have made better personnel decisions after the 93 season.

When Manning chose Denver over Tennessee and Adams, I was so happy, and I felt that Adams didn't deserve a guy like Peyton as his QB.

[BroncoJoe]

I don't know how to comment on this topic.

[Hawgdriver]

I don't know how to comment on this topic.

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