PDA

View Full Version : Von Miller on QB: 'Me, personally, I like Trev'



Denver Native (Carol)
02-13-2017, 02:14 PM
HOUSTON—Deep down, Von Miller knows he’s the best player on the Denver Broncos. He has never said so, but it’s not necessary.

His paycheck can talk for him.

No matter how much weight the opinion of the top player carries, though, Miller has always understood his place. He leaves coaching and roster matters to general manager John Elway.

That doesn’t mean Miller won’t cooperate when questioned about team matters. Like the Broncos’ quarterback position, for instance.

His choices: Incumbent starter Trevor Siemian, first-round backup Paxton Lynch, and speculation of possibly acquiring Tony Romo.

“I feel like Elway has always put us in a great championship position, whatever quarterback that we’ve had,’’ Miller said on the eve of Super Bowl LI. “Me, personally, I like Trev. He’s done a great job for us. Of course, you’ve got to come back and do it in training camp but I like that healthy competition between him and Paxton.

“And who knows, Paxton could come alive and become a star. It happens every single year. I like our two guys that we have right now. If we were able to get somebody else, then that will be a decision of the guys in the front office. But I’m happy with where we’re at right now.’’

rest - other stuff besides QB talk http://www.9news.com/sports/nfl/denver-broncos/mike-klis/von-miller-on-qb-me-personally-i-like-trev/407882303?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Northman
02-13-2017, 02:25 PM
Now you gone and done it.....

dogfish
02-13-2017, 03:55 PM
von likes everybody-- he's almost as much of a politician as champ bailey was. . . :D

DenBronx
02-13-2017, 05:20 PM
Maybe we should ask our WRs opinion?

I don't see Elway not kicking the tires on getting Romo here. He will at least look at options for a veteran QB.

King87
02-13-2017, 11:45 PM
NO!!!!!!!!!

Northman
02-14-2017, 12:05 AM
NO!!!!!!!!!

This is exactly how i saw you when you posted that. lol

https://images.moviepilot.com/image/upload/c_fill,h_470,q_auto:good,w_620/scanners21-movie-making-how-2-exploding-head-in-scanners-png-98462.jpg

King87
02-14-2017, 12:08 AM
Northman...hold me...please hold me.

Joel
02-14-2017, 10:01 AM
So now we know: Siemian was VONS pick. I confess not setting that one coming. :confused:

King87
02-14-2017, 07:24 PM
This is my hell.

turftoad
02-14-2017, 07:28 PM
Meh, if we don't bring Romo in, I think it's going to be Lynch's job to lose.
You don't draft a QB in the first round and not give him a chance in real games.
They knew he was going to be at least a year out.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
02-14-2017, 07:56 PM
This is my hell.

No bratwurst?

Jaded
02-14-2017, 09:03 PM
:couch2::popcorn::canada:

King87
02-14-2017, 09:17 PM
No bratwurst?

:shocked:

dogfish
02-14-2017, 10:53 PM
Northman...hold me...please hold me.

that's a lot of holding!

King87
02-14-2017, 11:08 PM
that's a lot of holding!

More holding than Stephenson against the Chiefs...

Jaded
02-14-2017, 11:12 PM
Paxton Lynch would be the best QB prospect in this draft...what if?

Jaded
02-14-2017, 11:13 PM
Paxton Lynch would be the best QB prospect in this draft...what if?

Wait for it...

Jaded
02-14-2017, 11:14 PM
Wait for it...

What if...the Broncos traded Lynch and gave Siemian a contract extension?

Jaded
02-14-2017, 11:17 PM
Id drive Lynch to San Fran myself for the 2nd overall pick.

King87
02-14-2017, 11:24 PM
What if...the Broncos traded Lynch and gave Siemian a contract extension?

What did we get in the trade? I could stomach TS if we got Bowman, an OL, and a burger.

Valar Morghulis
02-15-2017, 12:36 AM
Id drive Lynch to San Fran myself for the 2nd overall pick.

I'd give him his bus ticket and and him on his way

Jaded
02-15-2017, 12:47 AM
What did we get in the trade? I could stomach TS if we got Bowman, an OL, and a burger.

So I tried on Fanspeak but they don't let you trade current players but otherwise had an impossible wet dream mock.

Cut; Stephenson, Ferentz, Green, Zaire.

Restructured everyone they let me, so we're in cap purgatory in a few years.

Resigned; Ware, Walker, Webster.

Signed; DE Calais, LG Joekel, RT Ricky Wagner, NT Chris Baker, CB Justin Gilbert, OT Matt Kalil, ILB Jelani Jenkins and get this...TE Jimmy Graham.

Draft; Nobody wanted to trade with me so I was left with just 9 picks

1st- OLB Tak McKinley
2nd- RB Joe Mixon
3rd- TE Jake Butt
3rd- DE Tanoh Kpassagnon
3rd- OT Julie'n Davenport
4th- RG David Sharpe
4th- WR/PR Stacy Coley
6th- CB/PR Brendan Langley
7th- LB Jimmie Gilbert

Jaded
02-15-2017, 12:52 AM
I keep taking the same players every time I fake one so it's safe to assume I'm gonna be bitchy about the real life draft.

Northman
02-15-2017, 01:23 AM
Arent we all come Draft Day. lmao

MOtorboat
02-15-2017, 04:33 AM
Lol. Lynch ain't got that value.

And good grief, only fools want Siemian to get an effing extension.

Freyaka
02-15-2017, 10:53 AM
Sanders also spoke highly of Trev and basically said he thought we were going to do great things with Trev.

Seems like despite the fact that some on here hate the guy and claim he has no leadership skills the players of this team like him and respect him.

Slick
02-15-2017, 11:26 AM
Sanders also spoke highly of Trev and basically said he thought we were going to do great things with Trev.

Seems like despite the fact that some on here hate the guy and claim he has no leadership skills the players of this team like him and respect him.

Well he can't really throw him under the bus either. Sanders was constantly throwing his hands up in frustration last season. Those two things don't really add up.

TXBRONC
02-15-2017, 12:18 PM
Sanders also spoke highly of Trev and basically said he thought we were going to do great things with Trev.

Seems like despite the fact that some on here hate the guy and claim he has no leadership skills the players of this team like him and respect him.

Liking him doesn't mean he's best fit for the job. He did ok as Denver's starting quarterback, but was it enough to solidify as long term answer at quarterback? I doubt it was. I do not hate him, I don't hate any of our players, I'm just convinced that the job couldn't be taken from him.

Hawgdriver
02-15-2017, 12:22 PM
Me, personally, I like Trev.

Same here, man.

Northman
02-15-2017, 12:24 PM
Right now the QB job could be taken from anyone on our roster.

TXBRONC
02-15-2017, 12:33 PM
Right now the QB job could be taken from anyone on our roster.

True, that's why hope one of them really nail it down. If it's Lynch whom I think has the better talent great, but Siemian can do it, I'm fine with that.

Freyaka
02-15-2017, 01:42 PM
Well he can't really throw him under the bus either. Sanders was constantly throwing his hands up in frustration last season. Those two things don't really add up.

There's a difference between simply not throwing someone under the bus and actually saying something nice.


I mean, Trevor had a good year. You talk about a guy, first-year player, had two receivers over 1,000 yards." Sanders told thepostgame.com during Super Bowl LI week in Houston. "He got a Pro Bowl nod, but he was hurt. so they're not really talking about him and I hear people saying that our quarterback play was horrible. This guy's a first year player. To go out and do what he did, obviously we didn't make the playoffs, but every year, you get better and you grow and understand what it takes to be a pro. I think that eventually he's gonna get there and lead us to greatness, or I hope so"

Sounds to me less like he's trying to avoid throwing him under the bus and more like he respects him, but you take it however you feel like.

Freyaka
02-15-2017, 01:45 PM
Liking him doesn't mean he's best fit for the job. He did ok as Denver's starting quarterback, but was it enough to solidify as long term answer at quarterback? I doubt it was. I do not hate him, I don't hate any of our players, I'm just convinced that the job couldn't be taken from him.

Of course the job could be taken from him...He's not some untouchable player that has earned the spot, but he's not some gutter trash like a few posters around these parts like to make him out to be.

He did well enough that he'll be in the mix to win the starting job this season. If Paxton beats him out and proves he's ready for the spot, so be it, either way, I think he's done enough that you at least let him fight for the chance to win the job.

King87
02-15-2017, 01:45 PM
He was gutter trash.

Freyaka
02-15-2017, 01:47 PM
He was gutter trash.

#figuredyou'dsaythat
#hatersgonnahate

King87
02-15-2017, 01:49 PM
#figuredyou'dsaythat
#hatersgonnahate

32 out of 36.

Horrible at the end of the year.

#factsgonnafact

Freyaka
02-15-2017, 01:54 PM
32 out of 36.

Horrible at the end of the year.

#factsgonnafact

32 out of 36 based on what? Because despite being out 4 games he was 24th in the league in yards, 22nd in the league in TD's, he threw less interceptions than half the starting QB's in the league.

Was he great? No, but come on man...Like Sanders said, he was a fricken first year starter... There is room to grow for next year and I'm confident that he can.

Keep tossing out your
#alternativefacts

Slick
02-15-2017, 01:59 PM
There's a difference between simply not throwing someone under the bus and actually saying something nice.



Sounds to me less like he's trying to avoid throwing him under the bus and more like he respects him, but you take it however you feel like.

It's off season fluff. That's how I take it.

MOtorboat
02-15-2017, 02:00 PM
I'd ignore PFF if I was a Siemian apologist too.

turftoad
02-15-2017, 02:01 PM
32 out of 36 based on what? Because despite being out 4 games he was 24th in the league in yards, 22nd in the league in TD's, he threw less interceptions than half the starting QB's in the league.

Was he great? No, but come on man...Like Sanders said, he was a fricken first year starter... There is room to grow for next year and I'm confident that he can.

Keep tossing out your
#alternativefacts

I see him as a good career backup like Kubiak was to Elway. Now.... we just need to find our new Elway!

King87
02-15-2017, 02:05 PM
32 out of 36 based on what? Because despite being out 4 games he was 24th in the league in yards, 22nd in the league in TD's, he threw less interceptions than half the starting QB's in the league.

Was he great? No, but come on man...Like Sanders said, he was a fricken first year starter... There is room to grow for next year and I'm confident that he can.

Keep tossing out your
#alternativefacts

Alternative facts is a saying for people who speak things that are lies.

PFF ranked him 32 out of 36, and they're a very real and reputable source of information and analysis. So, in that sense, you're wrong.


Next time you want to accuse someone of something, make sure your accusation makes sense.

Considering the fact that he was awful at the end of the year, there's another 'alternative fact' that seems to be...factually based in reality.

What do you call it when someone accuses someone of something that they themselves are guilty of? Some might call it a hypocrite. Here on the board we call it a Freyaka.

Also, are you sure he missed four games? Or since you want to be throwing accusations around, do you want to amend that to make it more factual? http://www.nfl.com/player/trevorsiemian/2553457/gamelogs


Do better.

King87
02-15-2017, 02:07 PM
I'd ignore PFF if I was a Siemian apologist too.

There's room to grow, though!

Great, a guy was utter trash, no one can actually tell you what he did well, he didn't seem to get any better as the season went on, but he can, technically, improve.

Freyaka
02-15-2017, 02:54 PM
Alternative facts is a saying for people who speak things that are lies.

PFF ranked him 32 out of 36, and they're a very real and reputable source of information and analysis. So, in that sense, you're wrong.


Next time you want to accuse someone of something, make sure your accusation makes sense.

Considering the fact that he was awful at the end of the year, there's another 'alternative fact' that seems to be...factually based in reality.

What do you call it when someone accuses someone of something that they themselves are guilty of? Some might call it a hypocrite. Here on the board we call it a Freyaka.

Also, are you sure he missed four games? Or since you want to be throwing accusations around, do you want to amend that to make it more factual? http://www.nfl.com/player/trevorsiemian/2553457/gamelogs


Do better.

I was poking fun with the #alternativefacts quip, but since I apparently struck a nerve, sweet! I'll stick with it.

LawDog
02-15-2017, 02:56 PM
Alternative facts is a saying for people who speak things that are lies.

PFF ranked him 32 out of 36, and they're a very real and reputable source of information and analysis. So, in that sense, you're wrong.


Next time you want to accuse someone of something, make sure your accusation makes sense.

Considering the fact that he was awful at the end of the year, there's another 'alternative fact' that seems to be...factually based in reality.

What do you call it when someone accuses someone of something that they themselves are guilty of? Some might call it a hypocrite. Here on the board we call it a Freyaka.

Also, are you sure he missed four games? Or since you want to be throwing accusations around, do you want to amend that to make it more factual? http://www.nfl.com/player/trevorsiemian/2553457/gamelogs


Do better.

Where was Eli Manning on that PFF ranking? I bet he was within 5 spots of Siemian.

Timmy!
02-15-2017, 02:59 PM
:pop2:

King87
02-15-2017, 02:59 PM
Where was Eli Manning on that PFF ranking? I bet he was within 5 spots of Siemian.

Well, if he was, he would at least have a resume to fall back on. Whereas TS was utter crapola and his resume consists of...that season.

King87
02-15-2017, 03:00 PM
I was poking fun with the #alternativefacts quip, but since I apparently struck a nerve, sweet! I'll stick with it.

Welcome to ignore. You'll make more contributions that way.

Freyaka
02-15-2017, 03:06 PM
The thing I love about all this is we want to focus on how he's "utter garbage" because of where PFF puts him, and yet when I've brought up in the past the fact that he is A. a first year starter and B. ranks well when compared to other first year starters from the past, that gets tossed out because the only information that matters is the info that supports the "trev is trash" narrative that some just love to throw around.

We'll see what next year brings. I'll be interested to see if some of the ones most vehemently against Trevor will change their tune or dig in deeper if he wins the starting job and has a strong second year.

Northman
02-15-2017, 03:07 PM
I really cant believe people are still arguing this stuff. Must be boredom. lol

King87
02-15-2017, 03:09 PM
I really cant believe people are still arguing this stuff. Must be boredom. lol

Go away Viking or I'll sink your boat!

Freyaka
02-15-2017, 03:18 PM
Well, if he was, he would at least have a resume to fall back on. Whereas TS was utter crapola and his resume consists of...that season.

"utter crapola" smh...

Player A. 3,284 yards 17 TD 16 INT's
Player B. 2,621 yards 17 TD 11 Int's
Player C. 2,971 yards 14 TD 12 INT's
Player D. 2,843 yards 18 TD 12 INT's
Player E. 3,401 yards 18 TD 10 INT's

5 QB's...4 of them Superbowl winners. That's their first year numbers one of them is Trevor's....

A Brees
B. Roethlisberger
C. Flacco
D. Brady
E. Siemian

You are very narrowminded in your evaluation of Trevor. You look at what he was this year as all he is ever capable of, as if he's going to never play any better than he did in his first year. As first year starters go, he wasn't bad no matter how badly you want that to be false. Does that mean he's going to take us to a Superbowl later? No, but it means that you spend way too much time trashing him as if he was the worst first year starter of all time and really, he played like a first year player. He met the expectations a reasonable rational person should have for a first year starter. He wasn't good if you are comparing him to other QB's with actual NFL experience under their belts, but as a guy being thrown into a starting role for the very first time, he did what should be expected.

You can trash him because you don't like him, that's fine, you don't have to like him, but to say he was utter garbage...that's flat out wrong, sorry. He was a first year starter playing like a first year starter, if he plays like this next year with a year of starting under his belt, then you can say he played like garbage and I'll support it fully, hell I'll probably say it right there with you.

Freyaka
02-15-2017, 03:21 PM
I really cant believe people are still arguing this stuff. Must be boredom. lol

What else are we supposed to talk about in the off season? Not like there is just a wealth of material to discuss currently.

slim
02-15-2017, 03:23 PM
"utter crapola" smh...

Player A. 3,284 yards 17 TD 16 INT's
Player B. 2,621 yards 17 TD 11 Int's
Player C. 2,971 yards 14 TD 12 INT's
Player D. 2,843 yards 18 TD 12 INT's
Player E. 3,401 yards 18 TD 10 INT's

5 QB's...4 of them Superbowl winners. That's their first year numbers one of them is Trevor's....

A Brees
B. Roethlisberger
C. Flacco
D. Brady
E. Siemian

You are very narrowminded in your evaluation of Trevor. You look at what he was this year as all he is ever capable of, as if he's going to never play any better than he did in his first year. As first year starters go, he wasn't bad no matter how badly you want that to be false. Does that mean he's going to take us to a Superbowl later? No, but it means that you spend way too much time trashing him as if he was the worst first year starter of all time and really, he played like a first year player. He met the expectations a reasonable rational person should have for a first year starter. He wasn't good if you are comparing him to other QB's with actual NFL experience under their belts, but as a guy being thrown into a starting role for the very first time, he did what should be expected.

You can trash him because you don't like him, that's fine, you don't have to like him, but to say he was utter garbage...that's flat out wrong, sorry. He was a first year starter playing like a first year starter, if he plays like this next year with a year of starting under his belt, then you can say he played like garbage and I'll support it fully, hell I'll probably say it right there with you.

You are comparing rookies to a second year player.

Try again.

Freyaka
02-15-2017, 03:24 PM
You are comparing rookies to a second year player.

Try again.

No, I'm comparing first year starters to first year starters.... Having a year on the bench is not anywhere the same as actually having playing experience. Trevor for all intents and purposes was a rookie with a deeper knowledge of the playbook than a standard rookie would have...

And if you want to be technical about it...Drew Brees didn't start until his second year so if nothing else, that's a similar comparison.

And really, if you want to go even deeper than that, Big Ben's first three seasons he had worse numbers than Trevor. So is Big Ben trash as well?

slim
02-15-2017, 03:25 PM
No, I'm comparing first year starters to first year starters.... Having a year on the bench is not anywhere the same as actually having playing experience.

It's not a fair comparison.

King87
02-15-2017, 03:34 PM
One first year starter has sat on the bench for an entire year and studied, as well as getting reps.

The other is a fresh young rookie.

It's not a valid comparison. Also, you're not accounting for the fact that TS is playing in a much pass friendlier league now than even Peyton Manning was in as a rookie. Rules changes matter.

Or, in other words, you're oblivious to the context of the arguments that you're making. The problem with the ignore function on this site is that you still see posters who are ignored when they're quoted.

You're not arguing apples to apples so much as you're arguing apples to plastic apples.

Freyaka
02-15-2017, 03:35 PM
It's not a fair comparison.

Only because it doesn't fit the narrative. And like I said in the edit, Big Ben's numbers were comparable to Trevor his first 3 seasons, Brees didn't start his first season and his second year was his first year starting.

Valar Morghulis
02-15-2017, 03:40 PM
Trevor siemian is Tim Tebow..... It happening again.

Taste the mutha****in rainbow

Northman
02-15-2017, 03:45 PM
Trevor siemian is Tim Tebow..... It happening again.

Taste the mutha****in rainbow


bwhahahahaha

best comment in the thread.

Hawgdriver
02-15-2017, 03:46 PM
Well, if he was, he would at least have a resume to fall back on. Whereas TS was utter crapola and his resume consists of...that season.

Dang. The first-year starter can't rest on his resume? :laugh:

Maybe law school will help.

#nemesisstrike
#offseasonantics
#hashtagsblow

Timmy!
02-15-2017, 03:46 PM
Trevor siemian is Tim Tebow..... It happening again.

Taste the mutha****in rainbow

This has merit.

Freyaka
02-15-2017, 03:51 PM
Trevor siemian is Tim Tebow..... It happening again.

Taste the mutha****in rainbow

Not even close...Tebow had a ton of rabid fans that were convinced he was the best thing ever. Trevor just has a few people saying "give the kid a chance".

I'm not convinced Trevor is the long term answer, but I think he at least deserves a shot to battle it out to start next season. If he loses the starting job or doesn't make a huge leap forward, then move on from him. I don't think that's an unreasonable thing to ask.

Valar Morghulis
02-15-2017, 03:53 PM
Not even close...Tebow had a ton of rabid fans that were convinced he was the best thing ever. Trevor just has a few people saying "give the kid a chance". I'm not convinced Trevor is the long term answer, but I think he at least deserves a shot to battle it out to start next season. If he loses the starting job or doesn't make a huge leap forward, then move on from him. I don't think that's an unreasonable thing to ask.

Exactly what a Tebow fan would day. I mean a siemian fan... Are you posting on one knee?

Northman
02-15-2017, 03:58 PM
For me its not about whether there is or isnt something to talk about in the offseason. Its just that the observations/opinions/hottakes whatever you want to call them have already been said by the same people over and over and over and over again. This is why i said i think people are just bored. No one is going to change anyone's mind whether the examples you give are valid or invalid. People have their minds made up and nothing is going to change that so why continue beating a dead horse to death?

Hawgdriver
02-15-2017, 03:59 PM
Trevor siemian is Tim Tebow..... It happening again.

Taste the mutha****in rainbow

Trevor Siemian + Tim Tebow + Rainbow.

Apply dark arts.

Triembow. A clinical, yet evangelical, NFL quarterback phenomenon that might be found near Leprechauns. Will often taken a knee in genuflection or in response to shoulder pain flareups. Might use a huge windup or a quick release, depending on how badly the Triembow needs to overthrow his target. Mercurial in terms of prospect potential evaluation--is he a first rounder, or an undrafted free agent? Leadership skills include charisma and void. Do not pet.

Hawgdriver
02-15-2017, 04:04 PM
. . . so why continue beating a dead horse to death?

Horse blood.


Horse BLOOD!


10175

Freyaka
02-15-2017, 04:29 PM
For me its not about whether there is or isnt something to talk about in the offseason. Its just that the observations/opinions/hottakes whatever you want to call them have already been said by the same people over and over and over and over again. This is why i said i think people are just bored. No one is going to change anyone's mind whether the examples you give are valid or invalid. People have their minds made up and nothing is going to change that so why continue beating a dead horse to death?

Would you prefer we beat the dead turtle in the corner instead?

turftoad
02-15-2017, 05:39 PM
Not even close...Tebow had a ton of rabid fans that were convinced he was the best thing ever. Trevor just has a few people saying "give the kid a chance".

I'm not convinced Trevor is the long term answer, but I think he at least deserves a shot to battle it out to start next season. If he loses the starting job or doesn't make a huge leap forward, then move on from him. I don't think that's an unreasonable thing to ask.

Well it looks like this is what is going to happen. End of story I guess.

MOtorboat
02-15-2017, 05:43 PM
https://sportsdaydfw.imgix.net/1479786191-1479234898-1479055115-romo1.jpg?w=1200&h=630&format=jpg&crop=faces&fit=crop

Freyaka
02-15-2017, 06:08 PM
https://sportsdaydfw.imgix.net/1479786191-1479234898-1479055115-romo1.jpg?w=1200&h=630&format=jpg&crop=faces&fit=crop

Great, that solves who starts for one game next year, what about the remaining 15 games?

MOtorboat
02-15-2017, 06:14 PM
Great, that solves who starts for one game next year, what about the remaining 15 games?

http://p.fod4.com/p/channels/legacy/profile/1062912/tony-romo-us-open.jpg

Freyaka
02-15-2017, 06:21 PM
http://p.fod4.com/p/channels/legacy/profile/1062912/tony-romo-us-open.jpg

Are you going to create 15 clones of him? Because he's only good for a game maybe to a season.

MOtorboat
02-15-2017, 06:24 PM
Are you going to create 15 clones of him? Because he's only good for a game maybe to a season.

OK.

TXBRONC
02-15-2017, 06:30 PM
Of course the job could be taken from him...He's not some untouchable player that has earned the spot, but he's not some gutter trash like a few posters around these parts like to make him out to be.

He did well enough that he'll be in the mix to win the starting job this season. If Paxton beats him out and proves he's ready for the spot, so be it, either way, I think he's done enough that you at least let him fight for the chance to win the job.

I agree, Trevor has did enough last season that he should and more than likely will start off in the mix.

TXBRONC
02-15-2017, 06:32 PM
Are you going to create 15 clones of him? Because he's only good for a game maybe to a season.

I really don't see Denver bringing Romo, not with his injury history.

ShaneFalco
02-15-2017, 07:02 PM
https://sportsdaydfw.imgix.net/1479786191-1479234898-1479055115-romo1.jpg?w=1200&h=630&format=jpg&crop=faces&fit=crop

https://i.imgsafe.org/4ec03af1b0.jpg

LawDog
02-15-2017, 08:14 PM
One first year starter has sat on the bench for an entire year and studied, as well as getting reps.

The other is a fresh young rookie.

It's not a valid comparison. Also, you're not accounting for the fact that TS is playing in a much pass friendlier league now than even Peyton Manning was in as a rookie. Rules changes matter.

Or, in other words, you're oblivious to the context of the arguments that you're making. The problem with the ignore function on this site is that you still see posters who are ignored when they're quoted.

You're not arguing apples to apples so much as you're arguing apples to plastic apples.

Devil's advocate: Siemian was a third stringer his rookie year, and spent camp his second year competing for a job with a 1st round pick and a seasoned vet. I would bet that any of Frey's rookie QB's had way more first team reps than Siemian did. Scout team duty and reading over Peyton's shoulder is valuable, but how much? The comparison is more Macintosh to a Golden Delicious or a Granny Smith.

Hawgdriver
02-15-2017, 08:30 PM
Compensation and roster management are the only two issues keeping Romo from wearing a Broncos Jersey. He is an immediate Improvement at quarterback for however many games you get from him.

King87
02-15-2017, 08:46 PM
Dang. The first-year starter can't rest on his resume? :laugh:

Maybe law school will help.

#nemesisstrike
#offseasonantics
#hashtagsblow

Man, words just.

King87
02-15-2017, 08:47 PM
Devil's advocate: Siemian was a third stringer his rookie year, and spent camp his second year competing for a job with a 1st round pick and a seasoned vet. I would bet that any of Frey's rookie QB's had way more first team reps than Siemian did. Scout team duty and reading over Peyton's shoulder is valuable, but how much? The comparison is more Macintosh to a Golden Delicious or a Granny Smith.

You're one of like four people I like.

dogfish
02-15-2017, 09:12 PM
Welcome to ignore. You'll make more contributions that way.

dude, seriously? it bothers you that much that the guy likes TS? what's the big deal?

King87
02-15-2017, 09:58 PM
dude, seriously? it bothers you that much that the guy likes TS? what's the big deal?

No. Anyone can like anyone. I used to like the Bengals before John Elway delivered me. TS> The Bengals.

King87
02-15-2017, 10:00 PM
Devil's advocate: Siemian was a third stringer his rookie year, and spent camp his second year competing for a job with a 1st round pick and a seasoned vet. I would bet that any of Frey's rookie QB's had way more first team reps than Siemian did. Scout team duty and reading over Peyton's shoulder is valuable, but how much? The comparison is more Macintosh to a Golden Delicious or a Granny Smith.

Here is my direct response - TS still had far more prep time than most 'first year starters' and it was learning from Peyton Manning. That is a rather large asset in my opinion.

The apple argument wasn't so much about TS being a plastic apple and therefore being bad. We just view the difference in prep time to be valued differently.

Hawgdriver
02-15-2017, 10:36 PM
Man, words just.

I remember this great trial attorney who phoned it in during motions practice. Didn't mean a thing.

#

King87
02-15-2017, 10:37 PM
I remember this great trial attorney who phoned it in during motions practice. Didn't mean a thing.

#

I'm sure you're saying something really sharp, but I don't understand your point.

Hawgdriver
02-15-2017, 10:42 PM
I'm sure you're saying something really sharp, but I don't understand your point.

I don't feel like Joelling. Let it go.

King87
02-15-2017, 10:43 PM
I don't feel like Joelling. Let it go.

You're cockteasing me. Eh. You're boring now.

Hawgdriver
02-15-2017, 10:45 PM
You're cockteasing me. Eh. You're boring now.

Happy belated Valentine's day, King.

King87
02-15-2017, 10:49 PM
Happy belated Valentine's day, King.

I can't quit you.

Jaded
02-16-2017, 01:04 AM
Lol. Lynch ain't got that value.

And good grief, only fools want Siemian to get an effing extension.

I'll take that as a maybe.

Jaded
02-16-2017, 01:07 AM
I really cant believe people are still arguing this stuff. Must be boredom. lol

North! Someone is being WRONG on the Internet, how can you just sit there?

Jaded
02-16-2017, 01:09 AM
Trevor siemian is Tim Tebow..... It happening again.

Taste the mutha****in rainbow

"He's practically a rookie".

Freyaka
02-16-2017, 09:54 AM
dude, seriously? it bothers you that much that the guy likes TS? what's the big deal?

It's all good... Honestly I was messing around with him. If that's all it takes to get under his skin it's probably for the best that he ignores me because if that bothers him, wait till I really get going.

Some people just have thin skin and can't take people joking around with them.

TXBRONC
02-16-2017, 10:01 AM
Compensation and roster management are the only two issues keeping Romo from wearing a Broncos Jersey. He is an immediate Improvement at quarterback for however many games you get from him.

But would it worth if he couldn't at very least last 3/4 of the season?

Freyaka
02-16-2017, 10:08 AM
On the subject of Romo, it's funny because on another forum I post on the topic of Ryan Clady (who is going to be a FA this season) came up. The response was pretty much universally "no way, he's too injury prone"

Then the same posters saying that in another thread are saying "man I hope we get Romo" The guy has played a grand total of 5 games the last two seasons and has 913 yards 6 TD 7 INT's and 1 fumble... He really hasn't been awe inspiring during his limited play time the last two seasons.

Granted that his last healthy year he had a great TD to INT ratio...(really his last two healthy years) but that was with a really good o-line and a hell of a lot better running game than what we are capable of offering.

If he ends up a FA I'm all for him coming here (as long as it's a team friendly deal) because then there isn't a lot of risk should he ended injured as he has so many times in his career.

Anyone that thinks we should give up picks for him and his current contract is loony though...

Northman
02-16-2017, 10:16 AM
On the subject of Romo, it's funny because on another forum I post on the topic of Ryan Clady (who is going to be a FA this season) came up. The response was pretty much universally "no way, he's too injury prone"

Then the same posters saying that in another thread are saying "man I hope we get Romo" The guy has played a grand total of 5 games the last two seasons and has 913 yards 6 TD 7 INT's and 1 fumble... He really hasn't been awe inspiring during his limited play time the last two seasons.

Granted that his last healthy year he had a great TD to INT ratio...(really his last two healthy years) but that was with a really good o-line and a hell of a lot better running game than what we are capable of offering.

If he ends up a FA I'm all for him coming here (as long as it's a team friendly deal) because then there isn't a lot of risk should he ended injured as he has so many times in his career.

Anyone that thinks we should give up picks for him and his current contract is loony though...



Yea, count me as one of the few people who worry that he wont even stay upright for more than 3-4 games. Not too mention he is very careless with the football and can pull a Cutler at any given moment with his ability to throw TD's to the other team. If we are talking the Tony Romo from like 5 years ago maybe you take a chance but at this stage and the way our offensive line is right now i would not pull the trigger.

Freyaka
02-16-2017, 10:19 AM
Yea, count me as one of the few people who worry that he wont even stay upright for more than 3-4 games. Not too mention he is very careless with the football and can pull a Cutler at any given moment with his ability to throw TD's to the other team. If we are talking the Tony Romo from like 5 years ago maybe you take a chance but at this stage and the way our offensive line is right now i would not pull the trigger.

For Tony Romo to work, he needs a running game. The times he's not had a running game, it isn't pretty because he starts forcing the ball and making stupid mistakes. (cutleresque)

Like I said, if he comes as a FA, fine, I'll give him a chance. But if we give a single pick up for him and take on that awful, awful, contract...I'm gonna be rather annoyed.

If Jerry decides to be a decent human being and cut him (not likely) then let him come to Denver and see if he can stay healthy long enough to win us some games.

Slick
02-16-2017, 10:23 AM
I'd rather see another season of developing the young guys. Time to find a long term answer at QB.

Freyaka
02-16-2017, 10:27 AM
I'd rather see another season of developing the young guys. Time to find a long term answer at QB.

And I absolutely agree with that. Figure out if either Trevor or Lynch can be the dude of the future and move forward with them, if not, start looking at a new QB in next years draft.

But if he comes here as a FA, so be it. I'd prefer we not bring in another short term loaner.

Slick
02-16-2017, 11:04 AM
And I absolutely agree with that. Figure out if either Trevor or Lynch can be the dude of the future and move forward with them, if not, start looking at a new QB in next years draft.

But if he comes here as a FA, so be it. I'd prefer we not bring in another short term loaner.

I actually like Romo and think he was a much better player than most here give him credit for but I don't want him now.

Hawgdriver
02-16-2017, 11:15 AM
But would it worth if he couldn't at very least last 3/4 of the season?

The per-game rate of compensation would be too high in that case. Maybe a team-friendly contract with an injury clause/de-escalator.

Jaded
02-16-2017, 11:21 AM
Between Romo, Siemian getting injured and Lynch needing game reps it might be the perfect 3-headed monster.

Hawgdriver
02-16-2017, 11:21 AM
I'd rather see another season of developing the young guys. Time to find a long term answer at QB.

I don't care about developing young guys at the expense of championships. If it's a necessary evil, so be it.

One thing that irks me is that decent simulation is available for the Broncos and Lynch/Siemian to further evaluate likelihood of success on gameday, but they aren't using it. Unlike the Cardinals, Cowboys, Patriots, and Titans. It seems the ideal tool for an organization to determine who should get the most of those precious snaps in training camp and during games. I know Elway knows about it, so I wonder why he hasn't pulled the trigger. It's exactly the kind of thing Lynch needs.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
02-16-2017, 11:23 AM
I don't care about developing young guys at the expense of championships. If it's a necessary evil, so be it.

One thing that irks me is that decent simulation is available for the Broncos and Lynch/Siemian to further evaluate likelihood of success on gameday, but they aren't using it. Unlike the Cardinals, Cowboys, Patriots, and Titans. It seems the ideal tool for an organization to determine who should get the most of those precious snaps in training camp and during games. I know Elway knows about it, so I wonder why he hasn't pulled the trigger. It's exactly the kind of thing Lynch needs.

My reading comprehension might be suffering, but I don't see where you specified what that simulation is.

Freyaka
02-16-2017, 11:24 AM
Between Romo, Siemian getting injured and Lynch needing game reps it might be the perfect 3-headed monster.

If science was able, we could combine them into one super-person. Trevor Romolynch

Hawgdriver
02-16-2017, 11:25 AM
My reading comprehension might be suffering, but I don't see where you specified what that simulation is.

Haven't read this article (http://www.recode.net/2017/2/3/14500680/virtual-reality-football-nfl-super-bowl-training-video), but have read others on same subject. Not sure how much it helped Dak.

King87
02-16-2017, 12:30 PM
Anything to keep TS off of the field. If we sign Romo and he gets hurt, we hope that Lynch steps up. If Lynch faulters, the only other option being TS, we suffer.

FTR, if we don't sign Romo then whomever wins the job wins the job. If Lynch can't beat out TS, that's embarrassing. If he can't take the job from him by the end of the years that's doubly embarrassing.

Freyaka
02-16-2017, 01:27 PM
Anything to keep TS off of the field. If we sign Romo and he gets hurt, we hope that Lynch steps up. If Lynch faulters, the only other option being TS, we suffer.

FTR, if we don't sign Romo then whomever wins the job wins the job. If Lynch can't beat out TS, that's embarrassing. If he can't take the job from him by the end of the years that's doubly embarrassing.

I want whoever the best QB is. IF TS wins the job, then TS should be the starter. If Lynch wins the job, he should be the starter.

Rather than boo hoo over who the starting QB is I choose to support whoever the starter is because I'm a fan of the team as a whole and want to see us win now, and win going forward.

I don't put my like or dislike of someone over the good of the team. If Romo comes here, I may not like it, but he'll have my full support.

King87
02-16-2017, 01:28 PM
I want whoever the best QB is. IF TS wins the job, then TS should be the starter. If Lynch wins the job, he should be the starter.

Rather than boo hoo over who the starting QB is I choose to support whoever the starter is because I'm a fan of the team as a whole and want to see us win now, and win going forward.

Did you miss the second line? Did you? Tell you did. You know you did. If Lynch can't beat out a limited guy like TS, after having the same advantage that TS had, then PL is probably a massive bust.


You're wasting my time.

Freyaka
02-16-2017, 01:59 PM
You're wasting my time.

I get that a lot... In fact, that one is heading straight to my sig to go along with Lynch12's...

King87
02-16-2017, 02:03 PM
I get that a lot... In fact, that one is heading straight to my sig to go along with Lynch12's...

I knew I could make it in! I ******* knew it.

Freyaka
02-16-2017, 02:03 PM
I knew I could make it in! I ******* knew it.

Come on, lets be honest, even though I bit and added it, that's precisely why you used that verbage :D

You put that line in there just hoping I'd bite and put you in my sig and being the sucker I am, I obliged.

King87
02-16-2017, 02:07 PM
Come on, lets be honest, even though I bit and added it, that's precisely why you used that verbage :D

You put that line in there just hoping I'd bite and put you in my sig and being the sucker I am, I obliged.

I have decided that you're not the worst person in the world.

Freyaka
02-16-2017, 02:38 PM
I have decided that you're not the worst person in the world.

I'm really not that bad, you just haven't caught onto my sense of humor yet.

Once you do, you'll think that I'm not even in the top 10 of the worst people in the world.

King87
02-16-2017, 02:41 PM
I'm wasting your time.

Freyaka
02-16-2017, 02:51 PM
I'm wasting your time.

In all honestly, this isn't far from true :) I should be working right now.

Slick
02-16-2017, 03:02 PM
I don't care about developing young guys at the expense of championships.

I agree with you but I also don't think this team is a Tony Romo away from winning a championship.


I want whoever the best QB is. IF TS wins the job, then TS should be the starter. If Lynch wins the job, he should be the starter.

Rather than boo hoo over who the starting QB is I choose to support whoever the starter is because I'm a fan of the team as a whole and want to see us win now, and win going forward.

I don't put my like or dislike of someone over the good of the team. If Romo comes here, I may not like it, but he'll have my full support.

What I think you miss sometimes is that there are fans who don't think Trevor Siemian is what's best for the team. They love the team just as much as you do, they just happen to think Siemian isn't the answer. Your post sounds like you think you're a better fan because you support whomever is starting and fans who are critical of Siemian are somehow lesser fans.

I'm not necessarily calling you fan police but just telling you how your post comes across when I read it.

Freyaka
02-16-2017, 03:09 PM
I'm not necessarily calling you fan police but just telling you how your post comes across when I read it.

It was only very slightly intended.

I dunno...I guess I just don't get the extreme dislike of Trevor, but if he wins the job, that makes him the best in the eyes of our coaches and GM. I get not trusting Trevor, I get not being sold on Trevor, but if he's the guy that wins, do you trust their judgement? I do! And if Elway and company think that Trevor's our best option, great, lets see what he has next season after a full year of work and improvement.

I'll trust Elway's judgement, who ever wins the job wins it.

When it boils down to it, we aren't winning the superbowl next year unless either Paxton or Trevor steps up and plays well enough to make it happen. (I suppose for fairness I will add "or romo stays healthy")

Maybe neither of the dudes we got now are the future and we draft someone next year, if so, great! It's all gravy. I'd rather see either Trevor or Paxton take over and win the job and leave us fans with no room to bicker (obviously, I prefer TS...that's hardly a secret)

We'll see what happens in a couple of months.

Northman
02-16-2017, 03:42 PM
I agree with you but I also don't think this team is a Tony Romo away from winning a championship.






I will only say that this is why i think guys such as myself and Frey are a bit confused by the anti-Siemian crowd. If the team isnt geared to win a championship and has a lot of problems it sure seems like a lot of people are going out of their way to lay it at the feet of Trevor. So much so that those same people have been saying the line isnt a problem when in very fact it is one of the worst in the NFL right now. Not saying this is your approach to it but just like you feel Frey is somehow being a fan police the other side of that is the badgering and dislike for Trevor is quite toxic to the point where other people feel that is what people are blaming when it comes to this teams woes right now.

dogfish
02-16-2017, 03:46 PM
i'll fight all of you, right now!

Northman
02-16-2017, 03:48 PM
i'll fight all of you, right now!

Sit down pussycat.

dogfish
02-16-2017, 04:26 PM
Sit down pussycat.

don't be mad 'cuz i'm more metal than you. . . :D

Freyaka
02-16-2017, 04:33 PM
Sit down pussycat.

Thank goodness your avatar is back to Emma again, we can be friends again.

King87
02-16-2017, 04:35 PM
I will only say that this is why i think guys such as myself and Frey are a bit confused by the anti-Siemian crowd. If the team isnt geared to win a championship and has a lot of problems it sure seems like a lot of people are going out of their way to lay it at the feet of Trevor. So much so that those same people have been saying the line isnt a problem when in very fact it is one of the worst in the NFL right now. Not saying this is your approach to it but just like you feel Frey is somehow being a fan police the other side of that is the badgering and dislike for Trevor is quite toxic to the point where other people feel that is what people are blaming when it comes to this teams woes right now.

I think the team is a good QB away from a SB victory. The defense should still be good, and a sharp young QB with mobility should be able to mitigate some of the issues with the line. TS, my issue with him, is that he's not good at anything. He doesn't do anything well, he hasn't shown any consistency on doing any single thing well, and he has little talent or physical ability when compared to his peers.

I also think, from what I've seen, that he's a really stupid QB. Towards the end of the year the line was playing better and teams went to zone. He had all day to sit back there, he couldn't hit a WR, he didn't scramble when it was available...he was literally one of the worst players in the entire NFL. That's at the end of the season. When he should be demonstrating something.

If he wins the job, he wins it. It would make me think a lot less of Lynch.

When I say something like "he's the worst player in the entire world," I really am trying to be funny. I'm trying to lighten the mood. I think the guy isn't good. I don't think he will be good. I think a lot of my issues with him aren't with him and were so much with the awful arguments from a few specific posters who literally tried to defend everything he did and act like he had no responsibility at all.

That's not you. and while Frey I think is more overly kind than I am overly harsh, it's not him, either.

I will root for our success before all else.

Northman
02-16-2017, 04:40 PM
Thank goodness your avatar is back to Emma again, we can be friends again.

I aim to please. :)

TXBRONC
02-17-2017, 08:44 AM
The per-game rate of compensation would be too high in that case. Maybe a team-friendly contract with an injury clause/de-escalator.

We'll see what happens.

Joel
02-17-2017, 06:36 PM
I think the team is a good QB away from a SB victory.
No, the '05 Broncos and '12 Texans were a good QB away from winning a SB: THIS team can't run anywhere but the left side nor pass protect anywhere AT ALL. Even PFM with an All Pro WR and a Pro Bowl alternate plus another at RB couldn't make win a SB with THIS team without ALSO having a historically great D. Since Wade and half our Championship front seven are gone, that's probably not an option anymore.

Even if all that weren't true, we need a franchise QB, and that means someone who's not only good, but will REMAIN that way long enough to build some consistent performance around him. We need to develop Siemian AND Lynch, then hope at least ONE of them turns out to be that guy. And the two best things a young QB can have (apart from quality developmental coaching) are good protection and run game he can lean on so he doesn't end up tenderized like Luck.

Focusing exclusively on the guys with best fantasy stats is fine if you're chasing a fantasy championship, but not a real SB.

King87
02-17-2017, 08:57 PM
In 2012 Schaub threw for 4k yards, 22 TDs and 12 picks while completing 64 percent of his passes. He was a good QB. It boggles my mind how you decide that guys aren't good when the evidence consistently refutes your position.

This team took a step back on defense, but the defense is still very good. A good QB can mask a lot of the issues with an offensive line, so an upgrade there would actually improve all of the offense.

You consistently told everyone that we should not sign PM. You were horribly wrong. You then consistently told us that Elway was ruining the franchise by not spending a of the resources on the line. Then we won a SB with a bad line, ailing QB's, and an all-time great defense that Elway built. You've been telling us how much of a risk Talib is, even though he was a huge part of said SB win, and how we should have gotten rid of him. You've been shown to be wrong again.

The irony of the last sentence in your post is not lost on anyone. You can't tell someone they're focusing on fantasy stats when they're saying that the meat and the potatoes of the defense is the way to go. Oh yeah, man, those defensive lineman I covet in the 3-4 sure are stat hogs. I mean woooow, those 3-4 ILB I really want are racking up the tackles on their way to an all-pro! Meanwhile, the no-fly zone, the other stat compilers on the defense next to the pass rushes produce a lot of turnovers...so in that sense sure, I'll take the fantasy stats because turnovers do win games.

Oh, and in 2005 Plummer had one helluva year. He, like the rest of the Broncos, sucked in the AFCCG. But again, you're really lousy at judging talent and production, so I don't hold that against you.

Hawgdriver
02-18-2017, 12:11 AM
I just watched youtube clips on 2016 Trev highlights. My main takeaway was damn, DT is a hoss.

I watched a Lynch highlight clip. My main takeaway was, gotta get this dude to NFL level.

I hope Paxton takes the next step. I'm concerned. It's on him now.

If it's Trevor, there is some hope, because even though he's a bit contact-frightened, he's a quality thrower with ok decision ability. The line did him absolutely 0 favors, and although a good QB makes a bad line look fine, it can make a first-year NFL starter scared shitless when angry 250+ pound dudes are ready to **** you up every snap. He might be legit, but he'd really have to improve.

Part of me wants the Broncos to tank in '17 so they have dibs on Darnold, because I don't see resolution to the QB situation, but the other part of me believes there is room for one or both of the QBs to blossom under McCoy.

I have doubts about Lynch based on the rumors of his lack of aptitude under the Kubiak regime. A pro needs to be able to take a snub and use it as fuel rather than pout-sauce. Maybe it's overblown.

It's a shame with the defense as good as it was in 2015. There are a few missing pieces on that side of the ball, and no reason to think it's going to be dominant just because it was in '15, and to a significant extent, in '16.

What am I saying. I don't really believe in either guy at this point, but there were some bright spots by Trev that give me hope, and Paxton has a pirate cannon that is the real deal, if his head catches up. Romo actually makes a lot of sense to me, depending on the reality of his injury risk and the $$ involved.

Joel
02-18-2017, 07:29 AM
I will only say that this is why i think guys such as myself and Frey are a bit confused by the anti-Siemian crowd. If the team isnt geared to win a championship and has a lot of problems it sure seems like a lot of people are going out of their way to lay it at the feet of Trevor. So much so that those same people have been saying the line isnt a problem when in very fact it is one of the worst in the NFL right now. Not saying this is your approach to it but just like you feel Frey is somehow being a fan police the other side of that is the badgering and dislike for Trevor is quite toxic to the point where other people feel that is what people are blaming when it comes to this teams woes right now.
It's simple and easy to lay all of a multitude of problems at the feet of a single HC or QB—especially when the GM's untouchable. ;)

Our line's been crap a LONG time, a history that doesn't suggest any significant improvement's likely any time soon. While I'd like to lay that all at Barones feet, that would 1) be the same oversimplified mistake as laying it all on any other single coach and 2) noting the HC and OC can't be expected to transform hamburger into filet mignon applies to the line coach just as much.

Meanwhile, WHOEVER our QB is will need decent protection and good enough run support he's not forced to be a one-man offense while defenses aware of that pin their ears back and tee off on him. Keeping a fragile aging vet in one piece or turning a raw kid into anything more than a fragile scared rabbit requires the same:

Time for receivers to get downfield while the QB reads and throws, and running well enough to keep pass rushers and safeties honest while avoiding 3rd an 17.

So no, we're not a decent QB away from a championship, but are already losing an elite Ds best players to age and the cap. Expecting a single great QB can instantly and singlehandedly make a noncontender a champion is lazy thinking; ask Andrew Luck how realistic it is.

Joel
02-18-2017, 07:50 AM
In 2012 Schaub threw for 4k yards, 22 TDs and 12 picks while completing 64 percent of his passes. He was a good QB. It boggles my mind how you decide that guys aren't good when the evidence consistently refutes your position.
He was in a good OFFENSE; not the same thing. I DID "watch" those games, and Schaub was the quintessential game manager who's fine as long as the rest of the skill players on offense AND defense don't force him to do anything heroic to win. When they did, Houston invariably lost, because Schaub's not the kind of guy who can LEAD a team to comeback victories. That 5 pt loss to a bad Raiders team where he hopped in place for nearly 10 seconds, ignoring MULTIPLE chances to run in for a short walkoff, then finally threw an end zone pick... that one's seared in my brain forever, and ended all faith in Schaub.

It was in 2011. I know, I know: It's all Kubiaks fault for calling dumb plays; if only he'd designed his offense to use QB mobility.... ;)


This team took a step back on defense, but the defense is still very good. A good QB can mask a lot of the issues with an offensive line, so an upgrade there would actually improve all of the offense.
An elite QB like Marino or Manning can MITIGATE crap blocking with their notoriously quick reads and releases, but they still need SOMETHING—at least a Dwight Stephenson or Jeff Saturday, if not a Tarik Glenn—because they can't see everything at once. Trying leads to UNBLOCKED LBs up the gut and the QBs "bad decision" to throw it to Charles Woodson. If an NFL LB charged you from 10' away, how likely would YOU be to "make a good decision"?

About as likely as NFL TE covering 10 YARDS in the same instant.


You consistently told everyone that we should not sign PM. You were horribly wrong. You then consistently told us that Elway was ruining the franchise by not spending a of the resources on the line. Then we won a SB with a bad line, ailing QB's, and an all-time great defense that Elway built. You've been telling us how much of a risk Talib is, even though he was a huge part of said SB win, and how we should have gotten rid of him. You've been shown to be wrong again.
Talib was part of the seasons RUN (except, y'know, while SUSPENDED) but played an AWFUL SB. I also consistently said the only way even PFM himself would win a SB with that crap line was if we brought in Kubiak, Wade and Dennison when Houston fired them; was I "consistently wrong" about that, or might we have won TWO SBs if we'd done it a year sooner?

I said when we signed PFM that our total inability to protect an aging pocket QB with fused vertebrae meant he'd have "2-3 good years before he retired or everyone WISHED he had;" was I "consistently wrong" about that? Because by the middle of his 2nd year he was a broken shell of the GoAT, and only Wades elite D and Kubiaks skilled offensive management allowed him to limp to a SB win.


The irony of the last sentence in your post is not lost on anyone. You can't tell someone they're focusing on fantasy stats when they're saying that the meat and the potatoes of the defense is the way to go. Oh yeah, man, those defensive lineman I covet in the 3-4 sure are stat hogs. I mean woooow, those 3-4 ILB I really want are racking up the tackles on their way to an all-pro! Meanwhile, the no-fly zone, the other stat compilers on the defense next to the pass rushes produce a lot of turnovers...so in that sense sure, I'll take the fantasy stats because turnovers do win games.
You said it yourself: Sacks and Ints. A 3-4s DEs and ILBs are complementary players; the OLBs and NTs racking up sacks while the DBs rack up Ints are the picks are the stars. For example, "Talibing" involves neither a DE (even a "DL") nor an ILB.


Oh, and in 2005 Plummer had one helluva year. He, like the rest of the Broncos, sucked in the AFCCG. But again, you're really lousy at judging talent and production, so I don't hold that against you.
2005 was the best REGULAR SEASON of Plummers career, because Shanny and Kubiak imposed ruthless discipline no matter how much he chafed under it. His postseason was crap though, only reaching the AFCCG game because Champ made a 14-point play and the refs called a phantom PI on a deep out to Lelie that gave us 1st and G at the 1. Plummer in his 30s could no more maintain a completely foreign playing style than Schaub could: Both flamed out.

Valar Morghulis
02-18-2017, 08:33 AM
GOOD post, I really ENJOYED it. In particular I LOVED the excessive USE of CAPS

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
02-18-2017, 09:22 AM
It's simple and easy to lay all of a multitude of problems at the feet of a single HC or QB—especially when the GM's untouchable. ;)

Our line's been crap a LONG time, a history that doesn't suggest any significant improvement's likely any time soon. While I'd like to lay that all at Barones feet, that would 1) be the same oversimplified mistake as laying it all on any other single coach and 2) noting the HC and OC can't be expected to transform hamburger into filet mignon applies to the line coach just as much.

Meanwhile, WHOEVER our QB is will need decent protection and good enough run support he's not forced to be a one-man offense while defenses aware of that pin their ears back and tee off on him. Keeping a fragile aging vet in one piece or turning a raw kid into anything more than a fragile scared rabbit requires the same:

Time for receivers to get downfield while the QB reads and throws, and running well enough to keep pass rushers and safeties honest while avoiding 3rd an 17.

So no, we're not a decent QB away from a championship, but are already losing an elite Ds best players to age and the cap. Expecting a single great QB can instantly and singlehandedly make a noncontender a champion is lazy thinking; ask Andrew Luck how realistic it is.

I must admit, this is one of the best posts I've seen on the subject Joel, and it was short enough I actually read it.

Joel
02-18-2017, 09:30 AM
GOOD post, I really ENJOYED it. In particular I LOVED the excessive USE of CAPS
You're WELCOME. I'll try VERY HARD to CONTINUE, even providing MORE of what you LOVE so MUCH.

Tone's very difficult to convey in text alone. Smilies are the closest thing to facial expression, connotation the closest to body language and script the closest to inflection. I could use boldface, italics and/or different colors, but don't have to take my right hand off the keyboard to hit the shift key, which is a time saver.

Most of the time people respond to my comments without bothering to READ them even WITH caps for emphasis; that's not much reason to use LESS caps.

Joel
02-18-2017, 09:32 AM
I must admit, this is one of the best posts I've seen on the subject Joel, and it was short enough I actually read it.
So I bitch about people responding without reading and then this happens. :redface:

King87
02-18-2017, 02:15 PM
I had about 350 words typed out and I lost them copying and pasting in a link...

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
02-18-2017, 05:44 PM
I had about 350 words typed out and I lost them copying and pasting in a link...

Thank you?

King87
02-18-2017, 05:45 PM
Thank you?

This is why we're not friends.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
02-18-2017, 05:47 PM
This is why we're not friends.

Negative, it's proof we're friends

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
02-18-2017, 05:48 PM
In fact, if you were here I'd buy you one of Meridian's best burgers.

King87
02-18-2017, 05:52 PM
In fact, if you were here I'd buy you one of Meridian's best burgers.

I'm the liberal guy you hate. You would find me hilarious in real life. I doubt you'd like me.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
02-18-2017, 05:54 PM
I'm the liberal guy you hate. You would find me hilarious in real life. I doubt you'd like me.

I don't hate anybody.

King87
02-18-2017, 07:55 PM
I don't hate anybody.

:shocked:

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
02-18-2017, 10:05 PM
:shocked:

I may hate ideologies, but not people

King87
02-18-2017, 10:36 PM
I may hate ideologies, but not people

:shocked:

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
02-18-2017, 11:28 PM
:shocked:

Ok, maybe I wasn't forthright. There's Tom Brady, Manning when he was with the Colts.

King87
02-18-2017, 11:50 PM
Ok, maybe I wasn't forthright. There's Tom Brady, Manning when he was with the Colts.

We recall conversations differently.

It's okay. I don't believe in people, so don't take it personally. We're all trash.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
02-19-2017, 12:01 AM
We recall conversations differently.

It's okay. I don't believe in people, so don't take it personally. We're all trash.

You feel as though I indicated I hate people? You specifically? I've never hated you, ever.

King87
02-19-2017, 12:04 AM
You feel as though I indicated I hate people? You specifically? I've never hated you, ever.

We are not communicating well.

I do not believe that you hate me. I believe we have both communicated in the past at various specific points we have been cross with each other.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
02-19-2017, 12:30 AM
We are not communicating well.

I do not believe that you hate me. I believe we have both communicated in the past at various specific points we have been cross with each other.

Agreed.

I don't always agree with you, but I like you.

King87
02-19-2017, 12:32 AM
Agreed.

I don't always agree with you, but I like you.

I always agree with me.

You're a decent enough guy.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
02-19-2017, 01:09 AM
I always agree with me.

You're a decent enough guy.

"Decent enough " 😆

King87
02-19-2017, 01:43 AM
"Decent enough " ��

I'd give you a C+. Maybe a B-.

Freyaka
02-19-2017, 03:18 AM
Jeeze...will you two just get a room already...

King87
02-19-2017, 03:21 AM
Jeeze...will you two just get a room already...

You just live to antagonize me

Timmy!
02-19-2017, 08:46 AM
Kiiiiiiiing.

Kiiiing.

King......

ShaneFalco
02-20-2017, 01:53 AM
http://i.imgur.com/7POMyQA.gif

https://res.cloudinary.com/cmgverticals/image/upload/f_auto,q_80/h_185,w_400/v1474834015/Siemian_bqgdut.gif

http://bsndenver.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/gif-45.gif

ShaneFalco
02-20-2017, 01:56 AM
https://i.imgflip.com/1b9g4j.gif

King87
02-20-2017, 02:11 AM
He threw a quarter of his TD's against the shitty Bengals.

That's how bad the Bengals are.

Jaded
02-20-2017, 02:34 AM
That TD to Sanders is gorgeous.

King87
02-20-2017, 02:38 AM
The deep pass where the WR has to turn around to an underthrown ball is an example of a WR bailing out a QB. The short pass for a TD would have been deflected by a better defender and the ball should was thrown late.

This is why he had a quarter of his production in one game.

ShaneFalco
02-20-2017, 04:14 AM
lol

p.s.

Siemian Style Kinged Cinci for Harambe

Freyaka
02-20-2017, 08:10 AM
That TD to Sanders is gorgeous.

Yep...some want to discredit what he did in that game because it was the bengals, but his form was perfect on those throws. I'd love to see what he'd have looked like the rest of the season had he not gotten injured.

TXBRONC
02-20-2017, 08:49 AM
He threw a quarter of his TD's against the shitty Bengals.

That's how bad the Bengals are.

King, there are quarterbacks that were and are far worse than Seimian. I would be much more worried if he had played poorly against the Bengals. I don't think he's the long term solution but Denver could be worse off.

Joel
02-20-2017, 09:04 AM
The deep pass where the WR has to turn around to an underthrown ball is an example of a WR bailing out a QB.
50 yds in the AIR is "underthrown" because the WR chose to turn around when there was no need. Sure.


The short pass for a TD would have been deflected by a better defender and the ball should was thrown late.
It was a TWO-STEP drop; what do you want him to do, just deflect the snap straight to the receiver? C'mon, dude: That pass was PERFECT.


This is why he had a quarter of his production in one game.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that had a lot more to do with his having shoulder crushed behind our Swiss cheese line, and having his starting RB crushed by midseason behind that Swiss cheese line so everyone knew we HAD to throw.

This is ridiculous: You're the first to cite the horror that is our line when you want to throw Kubes under the bus for not rebuilding Rome in two days, but studiously ignore it when you want to bash a guy playing his first pro games, half of them hurt, and STILL walking out of it with an 82 rating. That's not a bad number; Young and Montana are top 2 for career (since the WCO offense is designed for the NFL PRS) and even THEY don't crack 90. The difference is they can't get better.

Seriously, wtf did the guy have to do to satisfy you? Because if what he DID do is so unacceptable, I pity Lynch trying to meet your standard for NFL debuts.

I'm not saying Siemian's the next Otto Graham, I'm just saying he's not the next Ryan Leaf either. Let's keep at least SOME perspective.

Freyaka
02-20-2017, 09:58 AM
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that had a lot more to do with his having shoulder crushed behind our Swiss cheese line, and having his starting RB crushed by midseason behind that Swiss cheese line so everyone knew we HAD to throw.

I really hate agreeing with you on stuff...

King87
02-20-2017, 12:50 PM
You poor poor fools.

Credit to Gary Kubiak for having the line regress on him. On that we can all agree.

You fools also don't recall but TS was out there slinging the ball against Cincinnati for me. He did it for the King. I believed in him! Then he let me down.

Freyaka
02-20-2017, 01:03 PM
You poor poor fools.

Credit to Gary Kubiak for having the line regress on him. On that we can all agree.

You fools also don't recall but TS was out there slinging the ball against Cincinnati for me. He did it for the King. I believed in him! Then he let me down.

I mean, I'm done arguing with you about it. Nothing I say is going to change your mind on the matter.

King87
02-20-2017, 01:05 PM
I mean, I'm done arguing with you about it. Nothing I say is going to change your mind on the matter.

You've made some impact. Freyaka, I've literaly told you that I exaggerate my opinions on the guy trying to be funny and a little outrageous.

Falco gets it. I was born in Cincinnati and used to be a Bengals fan. That's why he Harambes me on the board.

Just laugh, man.

King87
02-20-2017, 01:11 PM
I have said -while noting that I was being serious- that I think TS could develop into a game manager guy like Alex Smith. Smith, while sometimes underwhelming, is pretty damn good in the playoffs, uses his mobility quite well, and is very efficient. He's been efficient and solid while having some lacking offenses in his time at KC.

So I do -seriously- question his ability to be very good at the game, and I think some of the people are too optimistic in what he could become. I say that because it's always 'who knows how he will turn out' or things like that while also lacking a qualifier.

With that being said, TS is the worst QB of all time and his arm is so weak he has Brady deflate his balls.

Freyaka
02-20-2017, 01:24 PM
You've made some impact. Freyaka, I've literaly told you that I exaggerate my opinions on the guy trying to be funny and a little outrageous.

Falco gets it. I was born in Cincinnati and used to be a Bengals fan. That's why he Harambes me on the board.

Just laugh, man.

Man... I'm just ready for football season. I need something new to discuss. Everything we can talk about we've beaten to death.

Being from Cinci, it shouldn't be surprising that you take issue to the QB's on our roster, neither of them are gingers...

The bungles sure love their ginger QB's lately.

King87
02-20-2017, 01:30 PM
Man... I'm just ready for football season. I need something new to discuss. Everything we can talk about we've beaten to death.

Being from Cinci, it shouldn't be surprising that you take issue to the QB's on our roster, neither of them are gingers...

The bungles sure love their ginger QB's lately.

They burn in the hell with their soulless shells.

Northman
02-20-2017, 01:34 PM
Im still shocked that VK changed allegiances. I still cant wrap my head around it but am glad he is with us. lol

Freyaka
02-20-2017, 01:36 PM
Im still shocked that VK changed allegiances. I still cant wrap my head around it but am glad he is with us. lol

There used to be a guy on the main forums named whodeybengals that spent so much time around us I wondered when he'd flip, he ended up getting tired of us and leaving instead.

I'd want to cheer for the Broncos if I were a Bengals fan too.

King87
02-20-2017, 01:42 PM
Im still shocked that VK changed allegiances. I still cant wrap my head around it but am glad he is with us. lol

Most of my ties to Cincinnati and Ohio are gone and have been gone for a long time. I live in Illinois and have since I was in Kindergarten, but the only Chicago team I like are the Blackhawks because I got into hockey just before they went on a huge run.

I had, and have, more ties to the Broncos just by being here for so many years. I also got sick of rooting for a Mike Brown owned tea. It was time for a change.

And now every day I wake up, do the Von Miller thrust, drink an orange crush, and life is better.

the fact that the QB's on my team have souls is a plus.

Freyaka
02-20-2017, 01:49 PM
Most of my ties to Cincinnati and Ohio are gone and have been gone for a long time. I live in Illinois and have since I was in Kindergarten, but the only Chicago team I like are the Blackhawks because I got into hockey just before they went on a huge run.

I had, and have, more ties to the Broncos just by being here for so many years. I also got sick of rooting for a Mike Brown owned tea. It was time for a change.

And now every day I wake up, do the Von Miller thrust, drink an orange crush, and life is better.

the fact that the QB's on my team have souls is a plus.

I have what some may deem an unhealthy addiction to Orange crush. I tend to polish off a two liter on game days because I am superstitious and believe that drinking Orange crush helps us win lol. And then I wonder why I am fat.

GEM
02-20-2017, 02:01 PM
I like TREVathan as well, I sure miss him. :D

dogfish
02-20-2017, 09:16 PM
There used to be a guy on the main forums named whodeybengals that spent so much time around us I wondered when he'd flip, he ended up getting tired of us and leaving instead.


he's a bungles lifer. . .

King87
02-20-2017, 09:23 PM
he's a bungles lifer. . .

In a dream Elway called on me, turned me into a football, and threw me into Broncodom. Terrell Davis then carried me into the endzone.

It was beautiful.

Not all can be saved.

Jaded
02-20-2017, 09:26 PM
Most of my ties to Cincinnati and Ohio are gone and have been gone for a long time. I live in Illinois and have since I was in Kindergarten, but the only Chicago team I like are the Blackhawks because I got into hockey just before they went on a huge run.

I had, and have, more ties to the Broncos just by being here for so many years. I also got sick of rooting for a Mike Brown owned tea. It was time for a change.

And now every day I wake up, do the Von Miller thrust, drink an orange crush, and life is better.

the fact that the QB's on my team have souls is a plus.

Who roots for tea anyway?

Cugel
02-21-2017, 11:28 AM
I have said -while noting that I was being serious- that I think TS could develop into a game manager guy like Alex Smith. Smith, while sometimes underwhelming, is pretty damn good in the playoffs, uses his mobility quite well, and is very efficient. He's been efficient and solid while having some lacking offenses in his time at KC.

So I do -seriously- question his ability to be very good at the game, and I think some of the people are too optimistic in what he could become. I say that because it's always 'who knows how he will turn out' or things like that while also lacking a qualifier.

Nobody knows. But NFL history gives us ODDS. And the odds of a 7th round QB turning into an elite QB capable of going into New England and beating Tom Brady on the road (or Ben Roethlisberger in Pitts) - we know that ain't great. Like well below 1% (1 out of over 150 QBs taken in the late 2nd to 7th rounds since the 2000 draft).

People don't like odds and can't mentally grasp statistics. That's how Vegas builds all those $1B casinos. Because people can't process "my chances are 1 in 38, that's not good enough odds to put down a $100 bet. Forget it!"

That's why I'm on pretty safe grounds saying "I don't think Trevor Siemian is ever going to be an elite starting QB in this league. At best he's another Kyle Orton who exceeded his draft status. And a Kyle Orton will never lead you to any NFL titles. Thus, it's better to start Paxton Lynch and see what he can do, and if he flops then go out in the next draft and get another franchise QB, because Siemian is never going to be that guy!"

Joel
02-21-2017, 04:43 PM
Im still shocked that VK changed allegiances. I still cant wrap my head around it but am glad he is with us. lol
He switched when Kubiak returned, no? Pretty sure it's Stockholm Syndrome; he's probably grateful Kubiak retired, because that was seemingly the ONLY way he wouldn't continue increasing his PERFECT record against Marvin Lewis.


I have what some may deem an unhealthy addiction to Orange crush. I tend to polish off a two liter on game days because I am superstitious and believe that drinking Orange crush helps us win lol. And then I wonder why I am fat.
I was still in Norway for the 2013 season (at the end of which my daughter was born) so my mom sent us care packages that included tons of Kool-Aid and, even though I normally can't STAND orange drinks (due to an unfortunate childhood incident with a severe virus, orange-flavored cough syrup and LOTS of vomiting,) once we went through nearly all the rest, I did it, on Gameday, no less:

I literally drank the orange kool-aid.

It became a ritual, though on the day of the SB I pre-loaded with the Notorious Pheasant, or whatever it's called, and was already pretty buzzed by kickoff. For which I am eternally grateful.... :(


Nobody knows. But NFL history gives us ODDS. And the odds of a 7th round QB turning into an elite QB capable of going into New England and beating Tom Brady on the road (or Ben Roethlisberger in Pitts) - we know that ain't great. Like well below 1% (1 out of over 150 QBs taken in the late 2nd to 7th rounds since the 2000 draft).

People don't like odds and can't mentally grasp statistics. That's how Vegas builds all those $1B casinos. Because people can't process "my chances are 1 in 38, that's not good enough odds to put down a $100 bet. Forget it!"

That's why I'm on pretty safe grounds saying "I don't think Trevor Siemian is ever going to be an elite starting QB in this league. At best he's another Kyle Orton who exceeded his draft status. And a Kyle Orton will never lead you to any NFL titles. Thus, it's better to start Paxton Lynch and see what he can do, and if he flops then go out in the next draft and get another franchise QB, because Siemian is never going to be that guy!"
The odds of a 7th round QB beating a 6th round QB are minuscule? That doesn't sound mathematically sound, even in a road game.

It's not just about the odds of Siemian making; not hardly. It's also about the odds of LYNCH making it (which are helluva better than those of a 7th rounder, but still heavily favor the house,) the fact Siemian's actually SHOWN something worthwhile and Lynch hasn't, the need for a long term solution at the games single most important position, and the fact that the odds of ANYONE selected for that job actually COMPLETING it are well below 50/50.

The main difference is that if the odds of Siemians success are even worse than the already terrible odds for EVERYONE, the RISK is also minuscule. Worse case scenario, if we ride Siemian next year and an 82 passer rating proves to BE the ceiling from which he slump back into abysmal play, what do we get?

A top 10, top 5 or even BETTER pick to find our QBotF IF Lynch looks no better than Siemian when the Opening Day starter's benched by midseason (which is guaranteed if he slumps; Elway won't keep trotting a losing QB out there when he has a second-year 1st rounder earning millions riding pine.)

NOTE, btw, this isn't an argument to "ride Siemians hot hand;" virtually ALL the same logic applies if we start Lynch Opening Day and let Siemian back him up. The sole difference is that we'd be risking far more because Lynch wasn't a 7th rounder, but that pick's spent, so we can never get it back whether Lynch is the next Manning or Leaf. Either way, if the Opening Day starter bombs he'll be benched, and if a different Week 17 starter ALSO bombs, we'll be drafting a QB early.

With odds little better statistically than Siemians. I mean, sure, we can say a 1st round QB is "an order of magnitude" or whatever more likely to succeed than a 7th rounder, but 10X1% is still only 10%; I wouldn't double down on that in Vegas nor anywhere else. If there's one overriding truism about drafting QBs (or anything else) it's that the odds of getting a great one are so low it'll almost always take multiple tries.

If you want to put probability and statistics, the Law of Truly Large Numbers proves the Gamblers Fallacy just that but also proves that SOMEWHERE within a huge number of drafts there will occasionally be a Brady or Davis in the 6th. I like pointing out the chances a HoFer drops to the bottom of the 1st is small because it means the majority of NFL scout teams horribly failed at what they do for a living, and the chances one drops to the 2nd or later is even lower because that means they ALL screwed up REPEATEDLY.

Yet sometimes they DO all royally screw up EVERY SINGLE ONE of ALL rounds. Else Rod Smith and Night Train Lane wouldn't have gone undrafted in EVERY round.

For once, let's skip the math and just keep it in sports: You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.—Michael Jordan

Cugel
02-23-2017, 12:56 PM
He switched when Kubiak returned, no? Pretty sure it's Stockholm Syndrome; he's probably grateful Kubiak retired, because that was seemingly the ONLY way he wouldn't continue increasing his PERFECT record against Marvin Lewis.

I was still in Norway for the 2013 season (at the end of which my daughter was born) so my mom sent us care packages that included tons of Kool-Aid and, even though I normally can't STAND orange drinks (due to an unfortunate childhood incident with a severe virus, orange-flavored cough syrup and LOTS of vomiting,) once we went through nearly all the rest, I did it, on Gameday, no less:

I literally drank the orange kool-aid.

It became a ritual, though on the day of the SB I pre-loaded with the Notorious Pheasant, or whatever it's called, and was already pretty buzzed by kickoff. For which I am eternally grateful.... :(


The odds of a 7th round QB beating a 6th round QB are minuscule? That doesn't sound mathematically sound, even in a road game.

It's not just about the odds of Siemian making; not hardly. It's also about the odds of LYNCH making it (which are helluva better than those of a 7th rounder, but still heavily favor the house,) the fact Siemian's actually SHOWN something worthwhile and Lynch hasn't, the need for a long term solution at the games single most important position, and the fact that the odds of ANYONE selected for that job actually COMPLETING it are well below 50/50.

The main difference is that if the odds of Siemians success are even worse than the already terrible odds for EVERYONE, the RISK is also minuscule. Worse case scenario, if we ride Siemian next year and an 82 passer rating proves to BE the ceiling from which he slump back into abysmal play, what do we get?

A top 10, top 5 or even BETTER pick to find our QBotF IF Lynch looks no better than Siemian when the Opening Day starter's benched by midseason (which is guaranteed if he slumps; Elway won't keep trotting a losing QB out there when he has a second-year 1st rounder earning millions riding pine.)

NOTE, btw, this isn't an argument to "ride Siemians hot hand;" virtually ALL the same logic applies if we start Lynch Opening Day and let Siemian back him up. The sole difference is that we'd be risking far more because Lynch wasn't a 7th rounder, but that pick's spent, so we can never get it back whether Lynch is the next Manning or Leaf. Either way, if the Opening Day starter bombs he'll be benched, and if a different Week 17 starter ALSO bombs, we'll be drafting a QB early.

With odds little better statistically than Siemians. I mean, sure, we can say a 1st round QB is "an order of magnitude" or whatever more likely to succeed than a 7th rounder, but 10X1% is still only 10%; I wouldn't double down on that in Vegas nor anywhere else. If there's one overriding truism about drafting QBs (or anything else) it's that the odds of getting a great one are so low it'll almost always take multiple tries.

If you want to put probability and statistics, the Law of Truly Large Numbers proves the Gamblers Fallacy just that but also proves that SOMEWHERE within a huge number of drafts there will occasionally be a Brady or Davis in the 6th. I like pointing out the chances a HoFer drops to the bottom of the 1st is small because it means the majority of NFL scout teams horribly failed at what they do for a living, and the chances one drops to the 2nd or later is even lower because that means they ALL screwed up REPEATEDLY.
[/COLOR]

Of course this is right. Statistics says that at some point all the NFL scouts are going to miss and a Tom Brady falls to the 6th round; a Kurt Warner goes undrafted, a Drew Brees falls to the 32nd pick, and a Russell Wilson falls to the 3rd round.

And about once every 100 million years a giant meteor hits the earth and wipes out 70% of all the species on the planet like happened to the Dinosaurs. But, waiting for that giant space rock to hit is not very bright because you'll be waiting a Loooong time.

Same thing for a 7th round QB beating Tom Brady in the playoffs.

Can Lynch ever become that guy? We all hope so, but he's shown no sign of it so far. And Elway's track record with drafting QBs is less than stellar at this point. Let's review:

1. Drafted Brock Osweiler instead of Russell Wilson. OK, all the NFL scouts whiffed on that one since Russell fell to the 3rd round. But, offering Osweiler $16M a year, $30 M guaranteed contract looks like a pretty bad idea in retrospect. So, points docked from Elway on that one. He would have been better letting Brock walk and keeping Manning around for another year. Elway doesn't come off as some kind of genius QB evaluator on that one!

2. Drafted Paxton Lynch instead of Dak Prescott. Once again the NFL scouts whiffed on a guy so Elway gets a pass there. But, moving up to get Paxton Lynch in the first round sure doesn't look like genius to anybody at this point. Based on everything we've seen so far Lynch looks like a bust.

WILL he be a bust? Who knows, we'll have to wait and see. But, at this point, Tony Romo is vastly superior to either of these stiffs in terms of talent.

If Elway doesn't sign him it means he doesn't want to pay Romo $10M plus given his injury history, not that he wouldn't be better than either Lynch or Siemian this season.

Joel
02-23-2017, 04:12 PM
There wasn't an astronomic or even geological time span between Warner, Brady and Brees: It was FOUR YEARS from the first to the last, who WASN'T the last because of guys like Romo and Wilson. In point of fact, Brees went in the VERY NEXT DRAFT after Brady, though Brees doesn't belong on the list: Since the very next draft after THAT one, pick #32 has been the bottom of the 1st round instead of the top of the 2nd (except years NE* was caught cheating, which was most years. ;))

Point being, the time since the dinosaurs isn't just an order of magnitude more, it's an order of magnitude of orders of magnitudes more. Which is to say, humans have a well documented problem conceptualizing (or rather, comparing) very large numbers, but 4 ISN'T a very large number, so it should be easy to see how minuscule it is compared to 65,000,000. If you're worried you won't be around FOUR YEARS you don't need a QB, you need a huge life insurance policy.

Hawgdriver
02-23-2017, 04:18 PM
There wasn't an astronomic . .

But there was a gastronomic.

King87
02-23-2017, 07:59 PM
What the **** is this shit?

Hawgdriver
02-23-2017, 08:31 PM
What the **** is this shit?

Focus.

King87
02-23-2017, 08:35 PM
Focus.

**** Off cause ur stupid?

Hawgdriver
02-23-2017, 10:08 PM
**** Off cause ur stupid?

This is getting us nowhere.

King87
02-23-2017, 10:11 PM
This is getting us nowhere.

I thought you were using the classic f.o.c.u.s. or **** off cause ur stupid line on me.

Hawgdriver
02-23-2017, 10:12 PM
I thought you were using the classic f.o.c.u.s. or **** off cause ur stupid line on me.

Nah, that's Saturdays.

Joel
02-24-2017, 01:41 PM
But there was a gastronomic.
In the sense the 6th round 1st ballot HoFer makes me nauseous, yes.

Joel
02-24-2017, 02:03 PM
What the **** is this shit?
Cugel's trying to convince us winning a lottery's no more likely than an asteroid exterminating humanity. Even though people win lotteries every day, and none of those winners has been killed by an asteroid (in fact, the Chixculub Asteroid was basically the greatest thing that ever happened to humans until we discovered fire.)

Of COURSE the odds of a quality player are MUCH higher than the 1st than the 2nd round, much less later ones, but of COURSE every round (and even UDFAs) has produced HoFers. This would be insultingly obvious if we were discussing ANY other position (say, OT, just to take a completely nonrandom example. ;)) But, somehow, QBs are either 1st rounders or scrubs, even if a later round QB had an NFL debut that would be impressive even for a 1st rounder.

Except Warner. And Brady. And Brees. But those are RARE events; they only happened three times in four seasons: That's not even (quite) annually! :rolleyes:

Freyaka
02-24-2017, 02:06 PM
Great news for those of you that dislike Trevor. He needs another surgery and will be out through camp and pre-season. I doubt he sees another snap...damn it... Stokley reported it.

I guess bring on Romo, Cutler, Paxton or whoever the next man up is.

Freyaka
02-24-2017, 02:14 PM
Stokley is reporting that he'll be out 5-6 months and will likely miss training camp and part or all of preseason. Without the 1st team snaps to build upon last year and improve I think some of you are getting your wish. I see it very unlikely he starts unless we have zero other options and Paxton is a giant turd.

Paxton is going to have a perfect chance to shine, if he doesn't win the job getting the vast majority of the 1st team reps this season, we need to bring someone else in because he isn't going to.

Jaded
02-24-2017, 02:17 PM
Kinger where were you on the night of...whenever this happened to Siemian?

Northman
02-24-2017, 02:23 PM
Jesus, Siemian is already turning into glass and he has barely played. Well Paxton, now is your chance dude. Make it count.

VonDoom
02-24-2017, 02:30 PM
Stokley is reporting that he'll be out 5-6 months and will likely miss training camp and part or all of preseason. Without the 1st team snaps to build upon last year and improve I think some of you are getting your wish. I see it very unlikely he starts unless we have zero other options and Paxton is a giant turd.

Paxton is going to have a perfect chance to shine, if he doesn't win the job getting the vast majority of the 1st team reps this season, we need to bring someone else in because he isn't going to.

No, Stokley said he's unlikely to fully practice until training camp - says nothing of the preseason, at least on Twitter:

104.3 The FAN‏@1043TheFan 15m15 minutes ago

From @bstokley14: #Broncos QB Trevor Siemian is unlikely to practice fully until training camp as he recovers from shoulder surgery.

Patrick Smyth already is rebuffing that claim, btw:

Patrick SmythVerified account‏@psmyth12 4m4 minutes ago

Patrick Smyth Retweeted 104.3 The FAN

The plan remains for Trevor to be ready to go for the start of OTAs as he recovers from a procedure on his non-throwing shoulder.

Hawgdriver
02-24-2017, 02:33 PM
Kinger where were you on the night of...whenever this happened to Siemian?

Sorry King, I said I wouldn't, but now the story must be known.

10201

Freyaka
02-24-2017, 02:34 PM
No, Stokley said he's unlikely to fully practice until training camp - says nothing of the preseason, at least on Twitter:

104.3 The FAN‏@1043TheFan 15m15 minutes ago

From @bstokley14: #Broncos QB Trevor Siemian is unlikely to practice fully until training camp as he recovers from shoulder surgery.

Patrick Smyth already is rebuffing that claim, btw:

Patrick SmythVerified account‏@psmyth12 4m4 minutes ago

Patrick Smyth Retweeted 104.3 The FAN

The plan remains for Trevor to be ready to go for the start of OTAs as he recovers from a procedure on his non-throwing shoulder.

Thank you for the correction, I'm getting info second hand because I can't get twitter at work.

LawDog
02-24-2017, 02:50 PM
So the part about Trevor needing a second surgery was pure crap too, correct?

slim
02-24-2017, 03:06 PM
104.3 has all the real news.

Seriously.

VonDoom
02-24-2017, 03:43 PM
So the part about Trevor needing a second surgery was pure crap too, correct?

I didn't hear it on the radio, just going by what's on Twitter. But it appears that there was some confusion there. I think there was only the one surgery, done in early January. With a five month recovery period, say, that puts him in May ... which is right around OTA's. Nothing (new) to see here.

Joel
02-24-2017, 03:56 PM
Jesus, Siemian is already turning into glass and he has barely played. Well Paxton, now is your chance dude. Make it count.
Can we please NOT do the "all our backs are glass" thing again? It was lame when it was McGahee, Moreno, Hillman, Ball and now CJ, and it's lame when it was Mannig, Oz and now Siemian. Turns out when NFL DEs and LBs hit you a LOT you get HURT a lot. That shouldn't be exactly shocking to anyone.

Unless we finally fix the root problem, Siemian will start again sooner than later no matter HOW well Lynch plays. I wish them good health, but expect it for neither. Good thing spending multiple season rushing passes while running for their lives has never permanently crippled a developing QBs mind and body....

King87
02-24-2017, 07:30 PM
Jesus, Siemian is already turning into glass and he has barely played. Well Paxton, now is your chance dude. Make it count.

He's a glass cannon without...the firepower. :lol:

Valar Morghulis
02-24-2017, 07:42 PM
He's a glass cannon without...the firepower. :lol:

Remember your uturn on td... that will be miniscule compared to the humble pie you will eat when TS rules the world

Slick
02-24-2017, 08:08 PM
he's a bungles lifer. . .

Whodey should have migrated over here with us when we all left that dumpster fire. He seemed like a good dude.

ShaneFalco
02-24-2017, 09:05 PM
Sorry King, I said I wouldn't, but now the story must be known.

10201

i love monkey island

dogfish
02-24-2017, 09:24 PM
Whodey should have migrated over here with us when we all left that dumpster fire. He seemed like a good dude.

he is a good dude, and he was here for a while-- but his buds like lord trychon never really made it over here, so he didn't last. . .

dogfish
02-24-2017, 09:26 PM
Jesus, Siemian is already turning into glass and he has barely played. Well Paxton, now is your chance dude. Make it count.

maybe. . . myself, i think if TS is too hurt to compete for the job in camp, it ramps up the odds of romo in denver significantly. . .

Hawgdriver
02-24-2017, 09:33 PM
he is a good dude, and he was here for a while-- but his buds like lord trychon never really made it over here, so he didn't last. . .

Like my man Chuck D said, 'Bring that V back'

dogfish
02-24-2017, 09:37 PM
Like my man Chuck D said, 'Bring that V back'

lol! only you can work doc V and chuck D into the same post. . . that's talent, folks. . .

King87
02-24-2017, 10:20 PM
Remember your uturn on td... that will be miniscule compared to the humble pie you will eat when TS rules the world

I'm not going to engage with you. You're bad for my mental health.

King87
02-24-2017, 10:22 PM
Sorry King, I said I wouldn't, but now the story must be known.

10201


Man...

ShaneFalco
02-24-2017, 10:28 PM
i hope the superbowl winning, pro bowl declining QB gets back to his feet soon

Cugel
02-26-2017, 03:25 PM
i hope the superbowl winning, pro bowl declining QB gets back to his feet soon

He's not going to voluntarily sit in the training room while Paxton Lynch takes his starting job! HE's going to try and be out there even if he's not 100%. It's up to the coaches to prevent that. They are going to need a healthy Trevor this year (if that's possible). After all, Paxton is taller than a bean-pole and guys like that often get hurt too. The Broncos need 3 QBs capable of starting this season. They need another veteran QB just in case of injury to both Trevor and Paxton (not unlikely).