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View Full Version : Terrell Davis is now a Hall of Famer



King87
02-04-2017, 07:35 PM
http://www.9news.com/sports/terrell-davis-becomes-fifth-bronco-elected-into-pro-football-hall-of-fame/398802777


Terrell Davis has become the fifth Denver Broncos player to be elected into the Pro Football Hall of Fame, sources with knowledge of the Hall of Fame class told 9News.

Davis was able to overcome a relatively brief career because he was truly great for a four-year period, a span that included arguably the finest postseason performance ever by an NFL running back.

Davis election was mildly surprising because the 48-member voting committee also elected former San Diego running back LaDainian Tomlinson in his first year of eligibility. Tomlinson’s election was expected.

That the Hall of Fame committee put in two running backs in the same class is unusual. It had not happened since Gale Sayers and Frank Gifford – who was a flanker and halfback – were elected in 1977.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _________________________

It is great to see the committee finally embrace its own logical conclusion.

Or, in other words - using their own logic he should have been in the HoF well before now. Regardless, he is a worthy player, a better man, the best postseason back ever, a 2k rusher, and one hell of a guy overall.

:salute::salute::salute::salute::salute::salute::s alute:

ShaneFalco
02-04-2017, 07:36 PM
um reports are saying that he didnt make it.

slim
02-04-2017, 07:37 PM
King has come a long way.

chazoe60
02-04-2017, 07:37 PM
That's awesome. Now when Randy Gradishar, Steve Atwater and Tom Nalen get in I will recognize the HOF as a legitimate organization.

This definitely is a good start though.

Nomad
02-04-2017, 07:38 PM
:salute: to TD! He'll always be etched in my memory. Damn outstanding RB.

chazoe60
02-04-2017, 07:38 PM
um reports are saying that he didnt make it.

What reports?

slim
02-04-2017, 07:38 PM
um reports are saying that he didnt make it.

Reporters can't get anything right

King87
02-04-2017, 07:39 PM
um reports are saying that he didnt make it.

http://www.milehighreport.com/2017/2/4/14511550/terrell-davis-made-the-final-cut-hall-of-fame

I haven't found one that said otherwise. I'll look though.

ShaneFalco
02-04-2017, 07:39 PM
What reports?

https://twitter.com/BillSimmons/status/828032550673080320

ShaneFalco
02-04-2017, 07:40 PM
https://twitter.com/BillSimmons/status/828028707113574400

slim
02-04-2017, 07:40 PM
https://twitter.com/BillSimmons/status/828032550673080320

Klis > Simmons

Lol

chazoe60
02-04-2017, 07:40 PM
https://twitter.com/BillSimmons/status/828032550673080320

Jesus, thats one report that basically says he did get in.

Nomad
02-04-2017, 07:41 PM
Who is Bill Simmons?

slim
02-04-2017, 07:42 PM
Who is Bill Simmons?

Some east coast hack that Mo and BTB slober over.

King87
02-04-2017, 07:44 PM
I will be very sad if he did not get in. There are conflicting reports, so Shane is spot on about that. Sorry Shane, the first ones I saw said he made it in, and I got excited.

BroncoWave
02-04-2017, 07:46 PM
Some east coast hack that Mo and BTB slober over.

Yeah some hack that has 20 or so years of massive popularity/fans/success. And if you read Twitter today, he said TD should be in and he's the greatest running back he's ever seen. But yeah, total hack.

ShaneFalco
02-04-2017, 07:46 PM
I will be very sad if he did not get in. There are conflicting reports, so Shane is spot on about that. Sorry Shane, the first ones I saw said he made it in, and I got excited.

i would be excited too. He deserves to get in.

slim
02-04-2017, 07:47 PM
I will be very sad if he did not get in. There are conflicting reports, so Shane is spot on about that. Sorry Shane, the first ones I saw said he made it in, and I got excited.

Don't apologize. I think you got this.

slim
02-04-2017, 07:48 PM
Yeah some hack that has 20 or so years of massive popularity/fans/success. And if you read Twitter today, he said TD should be in and he's the greatest running back he's ever seen. But yeah, total hack.

Okay. Looks like he got it wrong.

Nomad
02-04-2017, 07:48 PM
Some east coast hack that Mo and BTB slober over.

Hmm. I heard the name, didn't know how reliable of a source he was.

King87
02-04-2017, 07:48 PM
I believe it is now official.

Az Snake
02-04-2017, 07:49 PM
It was Terrell Owens that didn't make it.

BroncoWave
02-04-2017, 07:50 PM
Okay. Looks like he got it wrong.

He didn't even report anything. He said there were conflicting reports.

Nomad
02-04-2017, 07:50 PM
This is more exciting than when JE got in. Long overdue for TD.

Nomad
02-04-2017, 07:52 PM
It was Terrell Owens that didn't make it.

Makes sense on the confusion, but remember they pronounce their first name's differently. :D Excited for TD!! :)

slim
02-04-2017, 07:52 PM
He didn't even report anything. He said there were conflicting reports.

Try again.

Maybe see what 538 says.

slim
02-04-2017, 07:55 PM
Im gonna dust of my signed SB MVP TD helmet.

It might be sticky here in a minute.

King87
02-04-2017, 07:56 PM
Slim,


I'm buying his jersey.

slim
02-04-2017, 07:57 PM
Slim,


I'm buying his jersey.

Me too.

It's been on the to do list for awhile. Now seems like a good time.

ShaneFalco
02-04-2017, 08:01 PM
hearing the official list is now. Warner, Morten Andersen, Terrell Davis, Jason Taylor and LaDainian Tomlinson

Gratz TD!

Az Snake
02-04-2017, 08:18 PM
The full Pro Football Hall of Fame Class of 2017 has been announced, and there are a few surprises. The biggest is that former wide receiver Terrell Owens did not make it, and the class has a pair of inductees from the running back position in both LaDainian Tomlinson and Terrell Davis.

Tomlinson highlights the class, which is fully made up of Tomlinson, Davis, defensive end Jason Taylor, quarterback Kurt Warner and kicker Morten Andersen. As a contributor, Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones made it and senior committee nominee and former NFL safety Kenny Easley also made it.

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2017/2/4/14511604/2017-pro-football-nfl-hall-of-fame-class-ladainian-tomlinson-kurt-warner

CONGRATULATIONS TERRELL DAVIS !!!
.

King87
02-04-2017, 08:19 PM
The two RB's who had to make it made it.

MOtorboat
02-04-2017, 08:21 PM
Yeah some hack that has 20 or so years of massive popularity/fans/success. And if you read Twitter today, he said TD should be in and he's the greatest running back he's ever seen. But yeah, total hack.

He's also not a reporter. People bitch about the "media" so much, but are so clueless.

MOtorboat
02-04-2017, 08:21 PM
A great night for the Broncos organization.

Nomad
02-04-2017, 08:23 PM
The full Pro Football Hall of Fame Class of 2017 has been announced, and there are a few surprises. The biggest is that former wide receiver Terrell Owens did not make it, and the class has a pair of inductees from the running back position in both LaDainian Tomlinson and Terrell Davis.

Tomlinson highlights the class, which is fully made up of Tomlinson, Davis, defensive end Jason Taylor, quarterback Kurt Warner and kicker Morten Andersen. As a contributor, Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones made it and senior committee nominee and former NFL safety Kenny Easley also made it.

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2017/2/4/14511604/2017-pro-football-nfl-hall-of-fame-class-ladainian-tomlinson-kurt-warner

CONGRATULATIONS TERRELL DAVIS !!!
.


You are so right, my friend. #excitedforTD :D

Timmy!
02-04-2017, 08:24 PM
From the forum 2017 HOF thread:



Since you **** waffles finally voted me in, you have broken the TD curse. That's right people, TD is going into the HOF this year, finally! Nostratimmy has spoken.


Congrats TD.

Edmonton Bronco Fan
02-04-2017, 08:24 PM
It's about time that TD took his rightful place in Canton. Awesome news.

slim
02-04-2017, 08:24 PM
He's also not a reporter. People bitch about the "media" so much, but are so clueless.

What is he, besides wrong?

King87
02-04-2017, 08:26 PM
Today I finished up most of law school applications. I have some chicken. A migraine and sinus issue both faded away. One of my best friends arrived home after being honorably discharged from the Air Force.

And this.

This is a good day.

I proclaim this to be a very fine day.

All in favor say aye! All opposed say nay!

AYE!

slim
02-04-2017, 08:26 PM
From the forum 2017 HOF thread:




Congrats TD.

Stop gloating and help me troll MO and BTB.

slim
02-04-2017, 08:26 PM
Today I finished up most of law school applications. I have some chicken. A migraine and sinus issue both faded away. One of my best friends arrived home after being honorably discharged from the Air Force.

And this.

This is a good day.

I proclaim this to be a very fine day.

All in favor say aye! All opposed say nay!

AYE!

Aye

Nomad
02-04-2017, 08:28 PM
Stop gloating and help me troll MO and BTB.

Perhaps, Im getting old, but I don't remember Bill Simmons.

slim
02-04-2017, 08:33 PM
Perhaps, Im getting old, but I don't remember Bill Simmons.

I think he's an ESPN guy. I could be wrong.

Regardless, someone needs to take away his Twitter account before he pisses off the wrong person.

chazoe60
02-04-2017, 08:34 PM
Bill Simmons is a huge Patriots apologist. He's terrible

slim
02-04-2017, 08:36 PM
Bill Simmons is a huge Patriots apologist. He's terrible

But he's been horrible for 20 years.

Timmy!
02-04-2017, 08:39 PM
Stop gloating and help me troll MO and BTB.

You're doing fine without me.

slim
02-04-2017, 08:40 PM
You're doing fine without me.

But it's more fun to share it with my brother.

King87
02-04-2017, 08:42 PM
Aye

The Ayes have it.

Timmy!
02-04-2017, 08:49 PM
But it's more fun to share it with my brother.

I'm busy being buried in snow. This winter is officially bullshit.

Nomad
02-04-2017, 08:52 PM
I'm busy being buried in snow. This winter is officially bullshit.

Isn't it fun? :lol:

BroncoJoe
02-04-2017, 09:00 PM
So very deserving! My daughter texted me about the news. Still going to watch the awards. Such a great guy.

Northman
02-04-2017, 09:13 PM
YEA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Baby!!!

Missy and i want to go to it but how do i go about getting tickets?

Jaded
02-04-2017, 09:25 PM
Makeup call for putting Jerry Jones in over Bowlen, they've been so against an obvious choice since he retired and now they put him in same time as another RB?

HoF is still a joke

Northman
02-04-2017, 09:27 PM
Wait wut?

King87
02-04-2017, 09:28 PM
Wait wut?

Jaded feels that LT should not have been put in the class because it's typically one RB at a time. Sharing the spotlight and all that.

I don't think it's a makeup for Bowlen, either, Jaded, as support for TD has been growing and growing over the past several years.

Jaded
02-04-2017, 09:32 PM
Not quite, TD should've been in 6 years ago, Pat Bowlen too. They shit on Bowlen and put in ****stick instead, a legit controversy, this is makeup for that.

Jaded
02-04-2017, 09:33 PM
I'm happy, btw, this is me being happy.

Jaded
02-04-2017, 09:34 PM
Wait wut?

Btw, North, this doesn't make up for the multitude of sins against our Broncos. Stay strong, and hate on!

atwater27
02-04-2017, 09:35 PM
10131

DenBronx
02-04-2017, 09:40 PM
King, didn't we debate this very issue years ago? I thought I remember you saying he shouldn't get in? Have you changed your mind, if so why?

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
02-04-2017, 09:40 PM
Seeing his name called was a little emotional for me.

Slick
02-04-2017, 09:45 PM
About time. TD is a stud and a class act off the field too. A great human being.

Denver Native (Carol)
02-04-2017, 09:57 PM
You can watch it here

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000782874/article/tomlinson-warner-terrell-davis-inducted-into-hall

capt. Jack
02-04-2017, 10:06 PM
Very happy and proud of TD!!!!

dogfish
02-04-2017, 10:16 PM
wooooooooooooooooooo!!!


fook yes! can't believe they actually did it. . . just got off work a bit ago, and saw it on my phone in the grocery store. . . people probably wondered why i was fist-pumping by the bread. . .


:defense: :salute: :salute:

Dzone
02-04-2017, 10:45 PM
Jerome Bettis and Curtis Martin should have never gone in before TD. Seeing TD get ripped off year after year was getting old

Denver Native (Carol)
02-04-2017, 11:01 PM
Terrell Davis ‏@Terrell_Davis 30m

Congratulations to my fellow classmates:@kurt13warner @LT_21 @JasonTaylor, Morten Andersen, Kenny Easley and Jerry Jones. See you in Canton!

Terrell Davis ‏@Terrell_Davis 36m

Pure happiness. I've been dreaming of this moment. Still in disbelief. HONORED to be elected into the Pro Football Hall of Fame. #HOF2017

sneakers
02-05-2017, 01:16 AM
I am surprised that they actually voted him in! But I guess they should have voted TO in if they were just going for big numbers.

Well Done!

LawDog
02-05-2017, 02:31 AM
The HOF can suck my dick, however, congrats TD. You're tops and always will be. Good on ya.

Timmy!
02-05-2017, 04:19 AM
wooooooooooooooooooo!!!


fook yes! can't believe they actually did it. . . just got off work a bit ago, and saw it on my phone in the grocery store. . . people probably wondered why i was fist-pumping by the bread. . .


:defense: :salute: :salute:

Whole wheat bitches! Woooooooooo!

Valar Morghulis
02-05-2017, 04:21 AM
I don't like to speculate, but those are facts and without td, we don't win Superbowl

Shannon Sharpe

Broncoknight30
02-05-2017, 04:43 AM
About damn time.

I have argued this for a long time. Fine, he did not have a long career. A lot of times that may be an issue. However, there are always exceptions and there is a precedent set with Gale Sayers. Terrell Davis clearly is an exception.

No RB has had (for all intents and purposes) has had a 4 year career like TD. The only RB to have over 2000 yards AND win the SB in the same year. The other aspects of that season is they were defending SB champs. It was clear to EVERY TEAM they played knew TD needed to be stopped to beat the Broncos. Elway was injured for at least 4 games that season and the great Bubby Brister was the QB. The other interesting aspect of that season was he missed a total of 8 quarters. That is two games right?

Many people have said that the Broncos had a plethora of RBs that were all very productive. Well, none of those teams won the SB. Besides none of them were as productive as TD.

Like I said. About damn time.

Valar Morghulis
02-05-2017, 04:49 AM
About damn time. I have argued this for a long time. Fine, he did not have a long career. A lot of times that may be an issue. However, there are always exceptions and there is a precedent set with Gale Sayers. Terrell Davis clearly is an exception. No RB has had (for all intents and purposes) has had a 4 year career like TD. The only RB to have over 2000 yards AND win the SB in the same year. The other aspects of that season is they were defending SB champs. It was clear to EVERY TEAM they played knew TD needed to be stopped to beat the Broncos. Elway was injured for at least 4 games that season and the great Bubby Brister was the QB. The other interesting aspect of that season was he missed a total of 8 quarters. That is two games right? Many people have said that the Broncos had a plethora of RBs that were all very productive. Well, none of those teams won the SB. Besides none of them were as productive as TD. Like I said. About damn time.

Even when you are happy, you seem angry!

Joel
02-05-2017, 06:14 AM
http://www.9news.com/sports/terrell-davis-becomes-fifth-bronco-elected-into-pro-football-hall-of-fame/398802777

Terrell Davis has become the fifth Denver Broncos player to be elected into the Pro Football Hall of Fame, sources with knowledge of the Hall of Fame class told 9News.

:salute::salute::salute::salute::salute::salute::s alute:
Is that the same Bill Musgrave who's our new QBs coach? I have to ask because for years I thought the Mark Harmon who kicked off on the play was the same Mark Harmon who went into acting, but it turns out they're different guys (Gibbs was a QB at UCLA, but to me he'll always be Maddy Hayes' boyfriend.)


It was Terrell Owens that didn't make it.
Even better. One of his cousins is married to the family across the street (or rather, one of their daughters.) Nice guy; when I met him even HE agreed that (Terrell) Owens slamming the ball down on the star in Texas Stadium was classless, and we all shared a good laugh over George Teague leveling him on his second try.

Anyway, congrats to Terrell Davis; I'm as surprised as I am gratified the Hall's no longer overlooking one of its worthiest members, who created and EARNED the :salute:

7DnBrnc53
02-05-2017, 07:52 AM
Even better. One of his cousins is married to the family across the street (or rather, one of their daughters.) Nice guy; when I met him even HE agreed that (Terrell) Owens slamming the ball down on the star in Texas Stadium was classless, and we all shared a good laugh over George Teague leveling him on his second try.

Anyway, congrats to Terrell Davis; I'm as surprised as I am gratified the Hall's no longer overlooking one of its worthiest members, who created and EARNED the

I think that TD and TO should have went in one year ago over Marvin Harrison and Tony Dungy. Dungy wasn't a HOF coach, and Harrison was a liability in the playoffs for the Colts.

Denver Native (Carol)
02-05-2017, 09:11 AM
John Elway ‏@johnelway 13h

Congrats, @Terrell_Davis, on your selection to the @ProFootballHOF!! Couldn't have happened to a better teammate, player or person!!

Joel
02-05-2017, 09:14 AM
I think that TD and TO should have went in one year ago over Marvin Harrison and Tony Dungy. Dungy wasn't a HOF coach, and Harrison was a liability in the playoffs for the Colts.
It's hard to see how Harrison was a liability anywhere, but TO wasn't that great. He was dominant with Steve Young, but not like Jerry Rice was, and merely good elsewhere. His signature "accomplishment" was convincing Parcells to retire for good.

BroncoJoe
02-05-2017, 09:14 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCoG_r70I9M Part 1


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ExPSPpRtwY Part 2

7DnBrnc53
02-05-2017, 10:50 AM
It's hard to see how Harrison was a liability anywhere, but TO wasn't that great. He was dominant with Steve Young, but not like Jerry Rice was, and merely good elsewhere. His signature "accomplishment" was convincing Parcells to retire for good.

There were several Colt playoff games where Harrison either dropped a key pass or fumbled a ball at a key moment. Manning gets all the blame for Indy's playoff woes in the 2000's, but he didn't have a defense (except for 2006. That D played way above itself in those playoffs), and Harrison usually disappeared come playoff time.

MasterShake
02-05-2017, 11:05 AM
Just woke up to the news. Fantastic! He should have gotten in years ago just based on his postseason which is all the should really matter. This is the Hall of Fame for GREATNESS, not the hall of good regular seasons.

Denver Native (Carol)
02-05-2017, 12:23 PM
Troy Renck ‏@TroyRenck 45m

TD said agent Neil Schwartz will present him at HOF. Why?When Schwartz signed TD as longshot told TD to give him that honor when reached HOF

BroncoWave
02-05-2017, 12:29 PM
It's hard to see how Harrison was a liability anywhere, but TO wasn't that great. He was dominant with Steve Young, but not like Jerry Rice was, and merely good elsewhere. His signature "accomplishment" was convincing Parcells to retire for good.

TO wasn't that great? That is absolute insanity dude. Go back and watch the Super Bowl he played in with Philly on a broken leg. He single-handedly kept them in that game. It's a joke that the HoF voters are blackballing him like this.

Dzone
02-05-2017, 12:37 PM
Jerry Jones going in before Pat Bowlen is a travesty

Denver Native (Carol)
02-05-2017, 12:42 PM
Chauncey Billups ‏@1MrBigShot 12h

Wow!! No way in the world that Von Miller isn't the DPOY. Smh...feel sorry for opposing QB's next season. #cantwait

Chauncey Billups ‏@1MrBigShot 12h

Congrats to Terrell Davis on HOF induction. Long time coming and well deserved. #Bronco4life

Chris Harris ‏@ChrisHarrisJr 13h

Congrats TD HOF @Terrell_Davis

shannon sharpe

@ShannonSharpe

Congrats to my former tmmate and my new @ProFootballHOF tmmate @Terrell_Davis. Congrats Ju

AqibTalib21

@AqibTalib21

OK @Terrell_Davis!!! HOF 2017!!! Well deserved!!! Congrats!!!

Cj Anderson

@cjandersonb22

Congrats to all the H.O.F class this year

kwebb

@kayvonwebster

Congrats to Terrell Davis huge accomplishment SALUTE well overdue #broncosup

mark schlereth

@markschlereth

So happy for my brother @Terrell_Davis on his HOF induction! Very proud of you rook!

Ed McCaffrey

@87ed

A huge Mile High Salute to my friend/teammate @Terrell_Davis - on his way to the @ProFootballHOF ! So deserves to be among the greats!

Jason Elam @Jason_Elam

@Terrell_Davis Congrats TD. So well deserved!! #ProFootballHallofFame

“The first Super Bowl, you have to understand, Green Bay was the defending champs. The NFC had won like 13 or 14 straight Super Bowls and the games weren’t close. We were 11.5-12 point underdogs. We were really confident in our offense. Once T.D. got rolling, it’s hard to patch the canoe in the middle of the stream when you don’t have the supply.”

“There’s no question in my mind that we’re not back-to-back champs if T.D. was not our running back.”

–Shannon Sharpe, Broncos Hall of Fame tight end on his favorite memory with Davis

“He was the ultimate pro. He played just as hard and just as nasty without the ball in his hand as he did with the ball. He was consistent. He was right there when it comes down to being the toughest player I’ve ever coached.”

— Bobby Turner, Falcons running backs coach, who coached Davis his entire career with Broncos

MasterShake
02-05-2017, 02:15 PM
Its also really surprising that he got in the same year as Tomlinson. Usually you don't see 2 guys from the same position group get in. I just can't believe we don't have more in there just based on the Broncos success through the years.

Nomad
02-05-2017, 02:39 PM
His infamous Tokyo hit. Granted, I didn't watch that game, I still enjoy watching the highlights of that hit.

Jaded
02-05-2017, 06:38 PM
Watching those videos.......hold on.......sorry.......I told myself I wouldn't do this.......I got some awesome leaking out.

And btw, Red 98 > Omaha

Denver Native (Carol)
02-05-2017, 09:38 PM
Earlier this morning on NFL Network they said that the ones who do not make the HOF get a phone call, and the ones who do make it get a knock on the door. They did show the knock on the doors. I found the following, which shows TD getting the knock on the door, and some other things.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ko4vzP9c2GQ

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
02-05-2017, 11:55 PM
Watching those videos.......hold on.......sorry.......I told myself I wouldn't do this.......I got some awesome leaking out.

And btw, Red 98 > Omaha

Red 98 has more of a skull crushing battle cry sound to it.

TXBRONC
02-08-2017, 12:20 PM
I am thrilled he's finally in. It's just to bad guys like Randy Gradishar are still being snubbed.

TXBRONC
02-08-2017, 12:21 PM
Red 98 has more of a skull crushing battle cry sound to it.

Being reminded steak doesn't help.

King87
02-08-2017, 01:09 PM
It's hard to see how Harrison was a liability anywhere, but TO wasn't that great. He was dominant with Steve Young, but not like Jerry Rice was, and merely good elsewhere. His signature "accomplishment" was convincing Parcells to retire for good.

Look at his seasons individually and you'll see a whole lot of dominant seasons. **** the guy, but they haven't been five better WR's than he.

Joel
02-08-2017, 02:19 PM
Look at his seasons individually and you'll see a whole lot of dominant seasons. **** the guy, but they haven't been five better WR's than he.
Terrell Owens led the NFL in receiving exactly NO times, and in TDs three (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/O/OwenTe00.htm); that's not "dominance," though the five times he was All Pro made him elite among contemporaries—but that's THE critical qualifier when discussing the five best EVER.

He only topped 90 receptions three times, and hit (exactly) 100 once. Sure, 100 receptions is a lot for almost any WR, but we're talking about the top FIVE of ALL TIME. I presume Rice is conceded better, so we're really only talking about whether there have EVER been even FOUR guys better than TO. Off the top of my head:

Don Hutson (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HutsDo00.htm) played 11 seasons, was All Pro all but three and led the NFL in receptions all but three, yards all but four and receiving TDs all but TWO (including his rookie year.) He also pioneered the modern receiving game in myriad ways, most notably by spending hours at a time catching passes deliberately thrown badly. He and Rice are the on the NFL 75th Anniversary Team along with

Lance Alworth (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AlwoLa00.htm), a six-time All Pro who led the NFL three times each in receptions, receiving yards and receiving TDs, and not all in the same seasons.

Mac Speedie (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SpeeMa00.htm) played only seven seasons but was All Pro in three, had the most receptions in four and the most receiving yards in two. People can say, "that wasn't the NFL," but the last three seasons were, and his Browns teams were 2-1 in those three championship games, so comparable competition (in 1948 they posted the only perfect season, along the way denying the 12-2 '9ers a playoff spot because sweeping them won the Browns the division.)

Raymond Berry (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BerrRa00.htm) is the fourth and final 75th Anniversary Team WR, and, while he matched TOs Pro Bowl seasons (in a shorter career,) TO does have two more All Pro seasons. However, Berry has three more leading the NFL in receptions and TDs and only one less leading in receiving TDs. It's close, IMHO.

Further, even AMONG his contemporaries, Moss outclassed TO without even trying (often literally. :tongue:) He's got as many Pro Bowl seasons and just one less All Pro—but he's also got the rookie and overall season TD receptions record, and led the league in them five times (including his rookie season.) NFL.com (http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/0ap3000000642432) ranks him 3rd all-time, behind Rice and Hutson (who top EVERY list by anyone who knows what he's talking about) and ahead of Berry, with Largent #5.

There's a good case for him, too; he wasn't fast and didn't have gaudy numbers, but remember: He spent his whole career in Seattle, where he was frequently all they had. And STILL had seven Pro Bowl seasons, one of them All Pro, and led the NFL in reception yards twice catching passes from Jim Zorn and Dave Krieg (whom he CARRIED to the 1984 Pro Bowl with TWICE as many receptions as anyone else on the team.)

I'm not saying TO sucked; NFL.com also has him right behind Largent at #6, which I still think too high (NFL.com has Fitzgerald next, then Megatron; I personally think that's backward, but would rank TO between them AT BEST.) I'd put him in the Hall of Very Good on the first ballot. All Time though? That covers a looooot of ground, and admittedly a lot of eras, making the question of how "dominant" a player was among contemporaries a critical normalizing metric.

Terrell Owens' contemporaries surpassed him in EVERY category virtually EVERY year he played: Either ALL FIVE of the greatest receivers EVER just happened to be playing at the same time, or he's not one of the top five ever. And when we consider the difference between eras, things like 1000 yd seasons were far more impressive when Don Hutson posted the first one (in 1942, three years after he set the previous record of 846) than now that teams throw 60% of the time.

Anyway, back to Terrell Davis, whose playoff dominance is unmatched and who still holds the record for the most total (i.e. regular and postseason) rushing yards, as well as for most rushing TDs in a SB (again in an era when teams throw a LOT more than they did in SB I.)

King87
02-08-2017, 02:55 PM
None of that refutes his greatness, though. Moss outclassed just about everyone. He's probably the second best WR ever and should have been the first. That means nothing.

Furthermore, your position is that he's not dominant because of other people were dominant? Well, I guess someone should tell ODB that Brown and Jones are making him not be 'dominant'.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/O/OwenTe00.htm

Look at his numbers. Look at them. He's third all time on receiving TD's. Moss, the guy that makes him irrelevant, has three more TD's than TO.

TO also had five all-pro seasons and would have had more had he not been a raging *******. Which, unfortunately, has nothing to do with him as an individual player. He's also second on receiving yards all-time.

TO, in other words, had all-pro production and great longevity. Something that few people can put together.

TXBRONC
02-08-2017, 06:40 PM
Look at his seasons individually and you'll see a whole lot of dominant seasons. **** the guy, but they haven't been five better WR's than he.

I'm not a fan of T.O. but the numbers show that he was very productive. I'm not sure Randy Moss comes up but if it were decision between Moss and Owens, I would put Moss in before T.O.

King87
02-08-2017, 06:41 PM
I'm not a fan of T.O. but the numbers show that he was very productive. I'm not sure Randy Moss comes up but if it were decision between Moss and Owens, I would put Moss in before T.O.

I would take Moss over TO because when Moss cared he broke records at will. If I HAD to have a doucher WR, I'll take Moss.

MileHighCrew
02-08-2017, 06:44 PM
about ******* time :salute:

TXBRONC
02-08-2017, 06:48 PM
None of that refutes his greatness, though. Moss outclassed just about everyone. He's probably the second best WR ever and should have been the first. That means nothing.

Furthermore, your position is that he's not dominant because of other people were dominant? Well, I guess someone should tell ODB that Brown and Jones are making him not be 'dominant'.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/O/OwenTe00.htm

Look at his numbers. Look at them. He's third all time on receiving TD's. Moss, the guy that makes him irrelevant, has three more TD's than TO.

TO also had five all-pro seasons and would have had more had he not been a raging *******. Which, unfortunately, has nothing to do with him as an individual player. He's also second on receiving yards all-time.

TO, in other words, had all-pro production and great longevity. Something that few people can put together.

Owens only has himself to blame for not being the Hall of Fame. If it wasn't for the fact he was jerk, I have little doubt he would have already been put into the Hall of Fame.

King87
02-08-2017, 06:50 PM
Owens only has himself to blame for not being the Hall of Fame. If it wasn't for the fact he was jerk, I have little doubt he would have already been put into the Hall of Fame.

I agree. On one hand, I wish the voters would like up to their mantle of being impartial and not being petty when they bitch about petty athletes. On the other hand, I think TO would have made Mother Teresa beat him with a brick.

TD over TO - Abe Lincoln.

He's right about that ^ - Einstein.

TXBRONC
02-08-2017, 06:52 PM
I would take Moss over TO because when Moss cared he broke records at will. If I HAD to have a doucher WR, I'll take Moss.

As much as Moss had issues he never tried to embarrass teammates publically.

Joel
02-08-2017, 11:50 PM
None of that refutes his greatness, though. Moss outclassed just about everyone. He's probably the second best WR ever and should have been the first. That means nothing.
All of it refutes
they haven't been five better WR's than heand certainly refutes doubling down on it with "probably the second best ever and should've been first." You also said (twice now,)
Look at his numbers. Look at them.Well, I did: He wasn't even "second best WR, and should've been first" when he PLAYED, much less EVER. "Ever" is a long freakin' time, and gets longer daily.


Furthermore, your position is that he's not dominant because of other people were dominant? Well, I guess someone should tell ODB that Brown and Jones are making him not be 'dominant'.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/O/OwenTe00.htm
Define "dominant." It depends on WHAT the competition is, and I don't mean the quality I mean the actual NATURE of competing ITSELF. If "dominant" means he owns virtually every CB he faces, maybe, but in that case, yeah, ODB, Brown and Jones are at least as "dominant," if not more, as are Fitzgerald, and Dez; Emmanuel Sanders is "dominant" in that sense.

That's not what we're talking about when it comes to the HoF though, is it? Because there the competition isn't opponents on the field, it's PRECISELY the best EVER at that POSITION. Terrell Owens doesn't "dominate" there, and in terms of "looking at his numbers," his All Pro seasons are LESS valuable there because he only had top five NUMBERS in TWO of those: The AP picked him 1st Team All Pro DESPITE that, and anyone who remembers TO remembers that the quality of his play was hardly the only thing that kept his name in the papers.

2000 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2000/receiving.htm): Owens was 3rd in TD behind Moss and Harrison, 4th in yards behind Torry Holt AND Isaac Bruce (i.e. even splitting receptions they BOTH gained more yards) with Rod Smith 3rd, and 5th in receptions behind Harrison, Muhsin Mohammed and both Rod AND Ed McCaffrey (i.e. even splitting receptions they BOTH had more.)

2004 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2004/receiving.htm): 3rd in TDs behind Muhammad and Harrison, ELEVENTH in yardage (behind... well, 10 people,) and TWENTY-THIRD in receptions.

2007: (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2007/receiving.htm) 3rd in TDs behind Moss (who, to be fair, set the RECORD that year) and Braylon Edwards, 5th in yards behind Wayne, Moss, Chad Johnson and Fitzgerald, and 20th in receptions behind, again, many many people.

All Pro all three times: Because he was TO, NOT because anyone "looked at his numbers" and named him All Pro instead of multiple WRs with BETTER numbers.


Look at his numbers. Look at them. He's third all time on receiving TD's. Moss, the guy that makes him irrelevant, has three more TD's than TO.
He's third all time on receiving TDs, but THE ENTIRE TOP TEN PLAYED AFTER 2000 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/rec_td_career.htm); so what's that prove except that teams throw a HELL of a lot more now than "ever"? There is ONE 20th Century guy in the top ten: Steve Largent, who didn't have guys like Steve Young, Donovan McNabb or Tony Romo lobbing bombs at him. Jim Zorn. JIM ZORN; did you even know he played (the few actual Seahawks fans are probably still trying to forget it. :tongue:) Owens spent his whole CAREER going from one first ballot HoF QB to a couple borderline HoFers; in Dallas, Bledsoe and Brad Johnson were Romos BACKUPS. Largent would've killed for even that much; the best he ever had was Dave Krieg.

Still caught 100 TDs in 14 seasons that started with an expansion teams inaugural season in the '70s (which incidentally means his first two seasons were two games shorter than current ones) and ended on the same team in 1989.

There WAS another guy in the top ten until Fitzgerald and Gates passed him this year: Don Hutson. Except they did it in 12 and 13 years, but he did it in 10—IN THE 1930S! You want to talk "dominant"? Moss, TO and even Jerry Rice himself practiced all the same techniques and routes as Hutson by the time they were in junior high, but he didn't have that luxury, and y'know why? BECAUSE HE HADN'T INVENTED THEM YET.

If you want to call TO the second or fifth or whatever best player "I've ever SEEN," fine, but even watching every NFL game since they started taping them wouldn't make that the same as "second best EVER, full stop."


TO also had five all-pro seasons and would have had more had he not been a raging *******. Which, unfortunately, has nothing to do with him as an individual player. He's also second on receiving yards all-time.

TO, in other words, had all-pro production and great longevity. Something that few people can put together.
Longevity counts, but production counts more. Production can make up for lack of longevity (it certainly did for Sayers, Campbell and Davis,) but longevity can't really make up for lack of production. And while TO had good production throughout his career, it was RARELY "five best" even when he PLAYED, let alone "ever."

"Look at his numbers," you say. Well, I looked: Terrell Owens was a very good receiver in the NFLs most receiver-friendly era, but nearly ALL his NUMBERS were worse than MULTIPLE other players nearly EVERY year he played. It's hard to believe someone who was BARELY top three in an era that grossly inflated ALL passing numbers is top five EVER. Especially knowing that practically EVERYONE agrees the best "ever" start with Rice/Hutson and go downhill from there.

Just for the record: Being a douche ALSO counts, and probably a lot more than it should. Canton voters have excluded FAR better players for FAR more (and sometimes less) reason. Most obviously, if OJ hadn't gone in on the first ballot, there's no WAY he'd get in now, even though what he accomplished on the field was undeniably deserving: Just not enough to make up for a double homicide.

Alan Page was a 6-time All Pro and Carl Eller a 5-time All Pro for the Purple People Eaters. But Page became a Minnesota Supreme Court judge (in fact, Wikipedia says he appointed the three-judge panel that heard Norm Colemans Senate election challenge against Al Franken) and a HoF inductee in 1988; Eller became a drug addict and an inductee in 2004.

Remember I mentioned Mac Speedie before, implying how much he belongs in the Hall? Well, he agreed, but far more strongly, and to everyone within earshot (pretty much what TO's doing now, except like, UNTIL THE DAY HE DIED.) Maybe the best thing TO could do for his case is STOP MAKING IT.

Jsteve01
02-08-2017, 11:58 PM
Slim,


I'm buying his jersey. already have it along with a sweet old school orange Dennis Smith Jersey. Part of my new policy of only purchasing jerseys of Bronco greats cuz I'm tired of burning them when they leave for other teams

King87
02-09-2017, 12:03 AM
already have it along with a sweet old school orange Dennis Smith Jersey. Part of my new policy of only purchasing jerseys of Bronco greats cuz I'm tired of burning them when they leave for other teams

When I left poopy Cincy they threatened to burn me.

Stop the violence!


Oh....you meant the jerseys!

King87
02-09-2017, 12:15 AM
Joel, his production led him to being highly ranked all-time in TDs and yards. He was outrageously productive in the NFL for a very, very, very long time. The guys in yesteryear played in a different era, but I'm going to be honest, no one cares about the guys who played in the 50's and the 60's. Yes, Packers fans love to rattle on about how awesome Hudson was and the Browns have to cling to Jim Brown as the best RB ever.

We don't even value the guys in the 70's that highly. Mel Blount was a beastly cornerback in his day, but he got away with mauling people, not coverage skill. He was essentially Talib, more violent, less talented, and had no coverage skills. Anyone think those LB's from the Steel Curtain could make it today? I mean they were all roided up, unintelligent, and one trick ponies. It's not just an improvement in athletic ability from a physical standpoint -the game requires far more intellect now, and to be honest, we see so many guys flame out on that side of the game that benefit of the doubt does not go to the old school guys.

As far as changing the game goes, TO was one of the frontrunners for big YAC WR's. It didn't hurt that he ran a 4.4, ran good routes, broke tackles like gangbusters and was a redzone beast. Sweet, Hutson apparently ran crazy routes - but no coach helped him? He dominated a time of the game where they only ran the ball. Wanna guess what happens if you go back in time and put TO on that field? He'd be bigger than some of the offensive lineman, FFS.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
02-09-2017, 12:34 AM
I would take Moss over TO because when Moss cared he broke records at will. If I HAD to have a doucher WR, I'll take Moss.

Randy Moss impacted the game more than any wide receiver I've ever seen.

King87
02-09-2017, 12:36 AM
Randy Moss impacted the game more than any wide receiver I've ever seen.

Double coverage all day. No double coverage and you almost always get sodomized. If he had the right attitude he'd have better numbers than Rice.

Joel
02-09-2017, 05:05 AM
Joel, his production led him to being highly ranked all-time in TDs and yards. He was outrageously productive in the NFL for a very, very, very long time. The guys in yesteryear played in a different era, but I'm going to be honest, no one cares about the guys who played in the 50's and the 60's. Yes, Packers fans love to rattle on about how awesome Hudson was and the Browns have to cling to Jim Brown as the best RB ever.

We don't even value the guys in the 70's that highly. Mel Blount was a beastly cornerback in his day, but he got away with mauling people, not coverage skill. He was essentially Talib, more violent, less talented, and had no coverage skills. Anyone think those LB's from the Steel Curtain could make it today? I mean they were all roided up, unintelligent, and one trick ponies. It's not just an improvement in athletic ability from a physical standpoint -the game requires far more intellect now, and to be honest, we see so many guys flame out on that side of the game that benefit of the doubt does not go to the old school guys.
Given that '70s secondaries not only could get away with that but were ENCOURAGED to do it, rewarded with All Pro selections and SB Rings, how good do you think the RECEIVERS had to be earn THEIR All Pro selections and "numbers"? Bearing in mind that they had 2 less games/year to match TOs career stats.

Terrell Owens is SECOND ALL-TIME IN RECEIVING YDS; fantastic—Fitzgerald will pass him within two years (maybe one.) Marshall may too if he ever finds a decent QB. Antonio Brown's well over halfway there in half as many seasons, and has a good QB (if not a great one.) Julio Jones is well on pace, and DT not far behind it.

All of which makes Jerry Rices 22,895 yds in 19 seasons that much more amazing; no one's even close—yet....

Hutson retired with every career receiving record in the book, but by the time the book I keep citing was released the only career record he had left was receiving TDs, which it further noted Largent was due to break the very next season (it actually took 2, after which he retired a SINGLE TD ahead,) and that "Barring injury, Steve Largent will retire holding the career receiving marks in catches, yards and TDs, but Hutson could tell him: Sic transit gloria."

The old saying is, "records were made to be broken," and that's ESPECIALLY true of passing and receiving records in a league that's passed more and more EVERY year of the 112 years since the forward pass was legalized. Less than 30 years after Largent DID retire with all those career receiving records, he's currently 18th in yards, 29th in receptions and tied with Tim Brown for 9th in TDs. Tim Brown, you may recall, played 16-game seasons for 16 years (i.e. not 10-game seasons for 10 years, like Hutson.) That is, he played 2½X more games than Hutson, and finished with all of ONE more TD, and most people think that was still pretty good; good enough for Canton anyway (though it took him 6 years to get there.)


As far as changing the game goes, TO was one of the frontrunners for big YAC WR's. It didn't hurt that he ran a 4.4, ran good routes, broke tackles like gangbusters and was a redzone beast. Sweet, Hutson apparently ran crazy routes - but no coach helped him? He dominated a time of the game where they only ran the ball. Wanna guess what happens if you go back in time and put TO on that field? He'd be bigger than some of the offensive lineman, FFS.
Even Curly Lambeau didn't help Hutson much. That's what I'm saying: The things that made him great were SELF-TAUGHT, yet so effective they revolutionized the game. Hutson didn't run crazy routes, he ran virtually all the same routes as receivers 80 years later—but he ran them FIRST because HE CREATED MOST OF THEM.

Name a single innovation TO made that every WR and every COACH copied and will keep right on copying for the next 80 years because it's THAT effective. We ooh and ahh over OBJs one-handers, Tyrees helmet-catches, Moss trapping balls against his thigh as he's sprawling on the ground: Thank Hutson again.

Mainly because Arnie Herber had a cannon but loaded it with grapeshot (the story is his teammates bet him he couldn't throw a ball the length of the field with the roll, so he cocked back and threw it all the way to the 15—with such a steep angle it bounced BACKWARD exactly as they'd expected.)

He was just the extreme case though; passing in those "put it up for grabs days" was a rare and usually desperate play where the QB just launched it downfield and hoped someone from the right team would run under it. So Hutson spent hours practicing how to catch that crap with opponents knocking the crap out of him the same way HE knocked the crap out of THEM when they tried to pass. And in between he had nice long chats with Arnie along the lines of "hey, how 'bout if you actually try to AIM; maybe we can even both agree where I'll run and you'll throw BEFORE the snap...."

Yes, it's a very different world: Respect the guys who ACCOMPLISHED that sea change.

Oh, and Jim Brown's the only RB in history to average >5 yds/att and 100/gm for his WHOLE CAREER (Barrys 99.8 yd/gm average is as close as you come to 100 without getting there, but Jim Brown did it with 4 yds to spare.) "Look at his numbers," indeed; he was All Pro and led the league in rushing 8/9 seasons, and led in TDs 5 of them. You mentioned "dominance" before; not to keep flogging a book, but THGoFs "Rumblings in the Pantheon" chapter (to which this discussion couldn't help but lead) literally begins its section on modern RBs by saying,


We've been telling you that Jim Brown dominated his era, so we're not surprised to find him at the top of this list. By the time all the votes are in, Payton will probably slip in just behind.
That's kind of a callback joke because they began their "The Theory of Relativity" chapter (which is literally all about how to normalize cross-era comparisons by seeing how much each player did or didn't "dominate" his contemporaries) by referencing an NFL Live show where callers were asked to pay 50 cents to vote Brown, Payton, Sayers or OJ the GoAT, interviewed each of them during the show, and every last one of them tacitly but indisputably clear Brown was the only real choice.

Payton won easily, leading the authors to grouse that "daddy who has to pay the phone bill won't pay to call, but junior just calls and calls because daddy pays the phone bill," and they 1) didn't know Jim Brown from Adam but 2) were watching Sweetness play RIGHT NOW. Not that they excused other generations, further noting that "if they'd polled only retirement homes, Red Grange would've won hands down."

Point being: No one has "dominated" pro football like Jim Brown since Jim Thorpe vs. the World a century ago.

TXBRONC
02-09-2017, 08:50 AM
Randy Moss impacted the game more than any wide receiver I've ever seen.

When Mike Tice was coach of the Vikings he found that if he got ball into Moss' hands about 8 or more times a game the Vikings chanes of winning dramatically improved.

Jsteve01
02-09-2017, 09:22 AM
Randy Moss impacted the game more than any wide receiver I've ever seen.

Calvin would have been a close second if he could stay healthy.

Denver Native (Carol)
02-16-2017, 10:37 PM
Despite the election of running back Terrell Davis to the Class of 2017, the Denver Broncos remain woefully under represented in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. There are five who played significant portions of their careers with Denver … or three fewer than there are Super Bowl appearances by the Broncos.

And that makes no sense.

Don’t ask me to explain it. I can’t. Neither can the other 47 other Hall-of-Fame voters. There are qualified Broncos out there – with former players Karl Mecklenburg, Steve Atwater, Randy Gradishar, Lionel Taylor and Louis Wright, as well as former coach Dan Reeves, at the head of the class — but no one outside of Davis can get a sniff.

Granted, there have been three modern-era Broncos (Gary Zimmerman, Shannon Sharpe and Davis) inducted since John Elway was a first-ballot choice in 2004, but there were none before that (Floyd Little was a senior choice in 2010). You heard me. Zippety-do-dah. Davis wasn’t exactly a favorite two weeks ago to break the Denver curse — not with a career cut short by injury — but he did, and, at the Talk of Fame Network, we thought that should count for something.

In fact, we thought it should give Davis — not selectors — a chance to nominate the next Hall-of-Fame inductee. So, when we spoke to him this week, we offered Davis a free Hall pass to give anyone who’s not in there; essentially, to get his take on what player or coach he thinks belongs in Canton who isn’t already there.

“One free pass?” he asked.

Correct.

“Steve Atwater,” he said.

Good choice.

rest, plus video - http://www.talkoffamenetwork.com/terrell-davis-would-put-steve-atwater-into-hall-fame/

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
02-16-2017, 10:54 PM
Atwater was a monster...loved watching that dude play

King87
02-17-2017, 12:02 AM
Atwater was a monster...loved watching that dude play

He was the first defensive player I ever liked.

Broncoknight30
02-17-2017, 04:34 AM
The problem with TO are a few things. We cannot just simply go by the numbers. This era the numbers are tremondously skewed. We should not just ignore that several teams got rid of him during his prime. He was benched by Andy Reid.

If we are going to use numbers to justify everything, then Dilfer deserves to be in the HOF. Well, his numbers are better than Namath's numbers. So much for numbers.

Hey, Rod Smiths numbers are comparable to Michael Irvin's numbers. Rod Smith could be the best undrafted FA ever. He is in the discussion with best undrafted players imo. He actually won rings. In 13 year career, he never missed one off season work out. Not one. Not even the volunteer workouts or the ones where only the rookies showed up. He never complained, or threw teammates under the bus. I know I am pissing in the wind with that one. Just saying.

TXBRONC
02-17-2017, 08:34 AM
Atwater was a monster...loved watching that dude play

He was fun to watch. I will never forget the sack on Farve early in Super Bowl XXXII and the hit on the receiver that knock himself and two other players out.

chazoe60
02-17-2017, 10:53 AM
I never liked TO but the dude is a HOFer.

Atwater belongs in the Hall. His performance in SB XXXII is one of the most criminally underrated defensive performances in SB history. He was everywhere in that game and by the end the Packers wanted nothing to do with playing ball in his backfield. Atwater was a member of the all decade team for the 90s wasn't he? How does he not get more HOF consideration.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
02-17-2017, 03:49 PM
I never liked TO but the dude is a HOFer.

Atwater belongs in the Hall. His performance in SB XXXII is one of the most criminally underrated defensive performances in SB history. He was everywhere in that game and by the end the Packers wanted nothing to do with playing ball in his backfield. Atwater was a member of the all decade team for the 90s wasn't he? How does he not get more HOF consideration.

Brooks and Freeman had alligator arms in the 4th quarter

Joel
02-17-2017, 06:10 PM
The problem with TO are a few things. We cannot just simply go by the numbers. This era the numbers are tremondously skewed. We should not just ignore that several teams got rid of him during his prime. He was benched by Andy Reid.

If we are going to use numbers to justify everything, then Dilfer deserves to be in the HOF. Well, his numbers are better than Namath's numbers. So much for numbers.

Hey, Rod Smiths numbers are comparable to Michael Irvin's numbers. Rod Smith could be the best undrafted FA ever. He is in the discussion with best undrafted players imo. He actually won rings. In 13 year career, he never missed one off season work out. Not one. Not even the volunteer workouts or the ones where only the rookies showed up. He never complained, or threw teammates under the bus. I know I am pissing in the wind with that one. Just saying.
Rod's my all-time favorite Bronco, but Night Train Lane's still the all-time best UDFA. Setting the NFL season interception record (14) as a ROOKIE would be amazing for a #1 overall pick, but STILL HOLDING IT 65 YEARS LATER is stunning. Especially since seasons were only TWELVE games then, but went to 14 in 1960 and 16 in 1978. The most since is Lester "Stickum" Hayes in 1980, but even he fell one short of matching the undrafted rookie.

Though I certainly concur that the NFLs current marketing strategy and resulting rules inflate receiving numbers more than any time in the leagues nearly century of play. ;) The only way to adjust for stats across eras is to see how each players stats compared to the league average or league best each season they played. It's easy and, far more importantly, anything else is apples and oranges (ESPECIALLY for WRs and QBs.)

Broncoknight30
02-17-2017, 06:21 PM
Rod's my all-time favorite Bronco, but Night Train Lane's still the all-time best UDFA. Setting the NFL season interception record (14) as a ROOKIE would be amazing for a #1 overall pick, but STILL HOLDING IT 65 YEARS LATER is stunning. Especially since seasons were only TWELVE games then, but went to 14 in 1960 and 16 in 1978. The most since is Lester "Stickum" Hayes in 1980, but even he fell one short of matching the undrafted rookie.

Though I certainly concur that the NFLs current marketing strategy and resulting rules inflate receiving numbers more than any time in the leagues nearly century of play. ;) The only way to adjust for stats across eras is to see how each players stats compared to the league average or league best each season they played. It's easy and, far more importantly, anything else is apples and oranges (ESPECIALLY for WRs and QBs.)

Yeah, ok. Night Train, good pick there. In the SB era though, it is hard to find a better, more accomplished wide out than Smith as an UNDRAFTED player. Smith, was the juxtaposed opposite of a teammate to TO.

I do see why the committee are apprehensive and that I believe includes hall of famers themselves.

In nearly every place he was, the team got rid of him regardless of his numbers. Can we think of many players like that? I cannot really think of any.

I am sorry that has to be a consideration.

King87
02-17-2017, 08:42 PM
If you played before the 70's you don't matter.

Joel
02-18-2017, 06:56 AM
If you played before the 70's you don't matter.
The HoF's the ultimate abode of all-time greatness: That's pretty much the exact opposite of "Never trust anyone >30." It can't exclude everyone the middle-aged selectors grew up watching, covering and even playing alongside. There's a reason all players must wait 5 years after retirement, and most don't make it on the first ballot. There's a reason they added a Seniors group.

Your argument is ESPECIALLY problematic for receivers and passers, because the growth of NFL passing has been a steady process practically since the leagues founding almost a century ago, so career stats have steadily risen accordingly and ANY cutoff is largely arbitrary. There have been three epochal NFL changes:

1) Unlimited substitution during WW II due to the draft (not the NFLs, though it was created about the same time,) ending after 1946 but permanent since 1948.

2) The pass-intensive AFL and subsequent merger, which created several expansion teams and DOUBLED the total, leading into the PI era in the mid-1970s.

3) Free agency after 1987 and the cap after 1993, ending the era of dynasties.

It's illustrative that all but the first can't be pinned down to a single snapshot season: The AFLs "air war on the airwaves" really predates the AFL itself by a couple years, because it truly began with the 1958 NFL Championship (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1958_NFL_Championship_Game#Aftermath), AKA The Greatest Game Ever Played. The NFL had just created OT that same season, and immediately needed it for a championship game roughly a third of the US watched live, which made Johnny U a star and inspired Lamar Hunt to found the AFL.

It still took nearly a decade to reach the first Super Bowl, nearly 20 years before felony assault ceased being a legal means of pass coverage, and nearly 30 before an NFL team won a championship by passing more than it ran (i.e. from preference instead of desperation.) The FA/cap transition was rapid by comparison, but only if we ignore the salary demands of pro footballs first stars enabling two abortive pro leagues in the '70s and '80s.

Defenseless receiver rules are trivial by comparison, and so recent it's too soon to saw whether the Competition Committee will rein them in (though odds are it'll continue using CTE as an excuse to perpetuate arcade scoring.) One of the biggest aspects of that change doesn't even directly involve passers, but QBs through rules to protect their knees and heads that were prompted by a season-ending injury to Tom Brady.

It would surely thrill NE* fans, but we won't divide NFL history into Before Brady and After Brady. Certainly not while he's STILL PLAYING.

Believing the world began with ones own birth is a defining trait of youth, but that's precisely why the NFL HoF is organized as it is.

Joel
02-18-2017, 07:07 AM
Yeah, ok. Night Train, good pick there. In the SB era though, it is hard to find a better, more accomplished wide out than Smith as an UNDRAFTED player. Smith, was the juxtaposed opposite of a teammate to TO.

I do see why the committee are apprehensive and that I believe includes hall of famers themselves.

In nearly every place he was, the team got rid of him regardless of his numbers. Can we think of many players like that? I cannot really think of any.

I am sorry that has to be a consideration.
Owens will likely make it sooner than later unless he completely pisses off the selection committee, and he probably belongs there, just not the first year eligible.

Yet the reality is that literally EVERY SINGLE YEAR HE PLAYED there were MULTIPLE players either wrapping up or beginning BETTER CAREERS. Unless one believes it just a bizarre coincidence that ALL the best receivers EVER just happened to play at a time when the rules made their jobs EASIER than ever, that means a guy who was BARELY TOP THREE in HIS own time isn't among the best EVER.

The fact some fans are so young they need Bo and Boz' Super Tecmo ad EXPLAINED is no reason to put them in charge of Canton: Just the opposite. ;)

Denver Native (Carol)
02-24-2017, 01:50 PM
DENVER (CBS4) – Mark your calendars, Broncos fans! The schedule is now set for Pro Football Hall of Fame induction weekend, and it will be different than in years past.

Denver Broncos running back Terrell Davis is in this year’s class.

The enshrinement ceremony for the Class of 2017 will be nationally televised on Saturday, Aug. 5, from Tom Benson Stadium at the Pro Football Hall of Fame in Canton, Ohio.

Davis is joined in this year’s class by Dallas Cowboys’ Owner Jerry Jones, former Cardinals quarterback Kurt Warner, running back LaDainian Tomlinson, pass-rusher Jason Taylor, safety Kenny Easley and kicker Morten Andersen.

The events kicks off with the Hall of Fame game, on a Thursday night for the first time. The Dallas Cowboys and Arizona Cardinals have just been announced as the two teams that will play. The choice of teams make sense due to the ties to Jones and Warner. Last year’s Hall of Fame game was canceled an hour before kickoff due to poor field conditions and concerns players might get hurt.

On Friday, the Hall will honor the Class of 2017 with a Gold Jacket Dinner at the Canton Memorial Civic Center. The NFL says the scheduling changes, an earlier game and later induction ceremony wisely place the spotlight on the enshrinement ceremony that weekend.

Davis joins four other Broncos in the Hall: John Elway, Gary Zimmerman, Floyd Little and Shannon Sharpe.

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2017/02/23/schedule-set-for-terrell-davis-enshrinement-into-hall-of-fame/

Denver Native (Carol)
03-30-2017, 04:41 PM
Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 2h

Tix for HOF Game and Enshrinement Ceremony go on sale Fri at 8 am MT. Tix may be purchased at http://www.ProFootballHOF.com/tickets @DenverChannel