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Denver Native (Carol)
01-31-2017, 04:23 PM
HOUSTON -- For the most part, as Josh McDaniels answered questions at Super Bowl LI media night, the New England Patriots offensive coordinator kept his poker face.

Whether it was a question about the Atlanta Falcons' pass-rushers, the pressure of a title game or what it’s like to work for Patriots coach Bill Belichick, McDaniels kept things low-key. And then came: “How do you know when you’re ready to be a head coach?"

With that, McDaniels quickly broke into what was easily his biggest smile Monday night, followed by the heartiest of laughs.

“Well, I wasn’t the last time," McDaniels said as he tipped his head back to laugh.

McDaniels, who is now in his 13th season with the Patriots, is preparing for his sixth Super Bowl with the team, which is looking for its fifth title in that span. But the Denver Broncos' faithful know all too well about “the last time" that McDaniels was talking about.

rest - http://www.espn.com/blog/denver-broncos/post/_/id/24955/josh-mcdaniels-says-he-has-learned-from-failures-in-leading-broncos

Northman
01-31-2017, 04:25 PM
McDaniels, though, is still waiting for his second chance to lead an NFL team. He interviewed with the Los Angeles Rams (http://www.espn.com/nfl/team/_/name/la/los-angeles-rams), the Jacksonville Jaguars (http://www.espn.com/nfl/team/_/name/jax/jacksonville-jaguars) and the San Francisco 49ers (http://www.espn.com/nfl/team/_/name/sf/san-francisco-49ers) in recent weeks, but those teams passed.

You know you are bad when none of those teams want you.

Davii
01-31-2017, 04:32 PM
You know you are bad when none of those teams want you.

Just you wait North, you will rue the day!!!!!!!!!

Probably not, but his few supporters will be here gloating IF he is ever successful. Nevermind the fact that they should be eating their weight in crow about now... Obviously a lot more teams feel he's a train wreck waiting to happen than feel he's the next BB.

UnderArmour
01-31-2017, 07:18 PM
Just you wait North, you will rue the day!!!!!!!!!

Probably not, but his few supporters will be here gloating IF he is ever successful. Nevermind the fact that they should be eating their weight in crow about now... Obviously a lot more teams feel he's a train wreck waiting to happen than feel he's the next BB.
I mean, it has been 6 years since he was fired here and there was no doubt he had a good draft the year we got DT, Decker, Beadles, Perrish Cox, Walton, and Tebow. He might be ready to step back in and do well if given the same circumstances he had here last time, but ditching Cutler was stupidity, trading essentially Earl Thomas for Alphonso Smith was unforgivable, and it was overall apparent he did not bother trying to command the respect of his players.

"I'm from New England kiss my rings!!" does not work as an approach in a proud, storied franchise like the Denver Broncos. It backfired on McDaniels, and instead of learning to work with the strong offensive personalities we had in Cutler, Marshall, Hillis, McDumbass decided the best way to command respect was to try to trade for a quarterback when we had one. He also decided to piss off his defensive coordinator (Mike Nolan) when it was obvious the D was overachieving on his watch, vastly improved from the dumpster fire the year before. There were flashes of brilliance, but most of the time the team just fell completely flat. Nobody can really "gloat" here if McDaniels was successful, because the time he had here was just such a disaster.

I do think he will be a great coach when he gets another chance, just because of how many unforgivable, horrendous mistakes he had the chance to learn from.

MOtorboat
01-31-2017, 07:34 PM
He is a great, great man who should be revered and respected.

chazoe60
01-31-2017, 07:42 PM
He is an awful, awful man who should be bludgeoned and shat upon.
Fify

slim
01-31-2017, 07:50 PM
He is the second best OC in the league.

chazoe60
01-31-2017, 07:55 PM
He is the second best OC in the SuperBowl.
Fify

slim
01-31-2017, 07:59 PM
Fify

Good point!

BroncoWave
01-31-2017, 08:41 PM
He is a great, great man who should be revered and respected.

Denver Broncos legend.

turftoad
01-31-2017, 08:52 PM
He is a great, great man who should be revered and respected.

Read my sig!

He learned on the fly at our expense.

MOtorboat
01-31-2017, 08:54 PM
Read my sig!

He learned on the fly at our expense.

He is a brilliant man.

Davii
01-31-2017, 09:04 PM
Trololololol

Jaded
01-31-2017, 09:34 PM
"Beadles, Perrish Cox, Walton and Tebow"

:deep breath:

AAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahahahahahahahahahahah a

Broncoknight30
01-31-2017, 09:34 PM
Did turn out that cutler sucked.

Just saying...

Jaded
01-31-2017, 09:36 PM
"Beadles, Perrish Cox, Walton and Tebow"

:deep breath:

AAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahahahahahahahahahahah a

AAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahahahahahahahahahahah a

turftoad
01-31-2017, 09:47 PM
He is a brilliant man.

Yes he's a good OC Mo.!

MOtorboat
01-31-2017, 09:57 PM
Yes he's a good OC Mo.!

Laugh, turf! It's a game.

BroncoWave
01-31-2017, 10:00 PM
Did turn out that cutler sucked.

Just saying...

One of the best roster moves in Broncos history getting rid of that bum.

Jaded
01-31-2017, 10:03 PM
One of the best roster moves in Broncos history getting rid of that bum.

If only they didn't waste every single pick they got in that trade. On the other hand, just getting three years of Orton and Tebow was gift enough.

BroncoWave
01-31-2017, 10:04 PM
If only they didn't waste every single pick they got in that trade. On the other hand, just getting three years of Orton and Tebow was gift enough.

Simply cutting him would have worked out just as well too, so what we got back for him is meaningless. :)

Jaded
01-31-2017, 10:06 PM
If getting rid of Cutler was so obvious than Elway would've done the same and he wouldn't have wasted the picks. (Unless some of those picks were in the 2nd round)

UnderArmour
01-31-2017, 10:07 PM
"Beadles, Perrish Cox, Walton and Tebow"

:deep breath:

AAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahahahahahahahahahahah a

Lasting in the league beyond one's rookie contract is an accomplishment. Cox has started for multiple teams, as has Walton. Tebow won a playoff game and was a weapon in the running game, plus the 4th round value Elway recouped can be subtracted. I mean, you can laugh all you want, but none of those picks were busts. I'd rather have a rookie Walton than a 2nd year Schofield.

Jaded
01-31-2017, 10:07 PM
Simply cutting him would have worked out just as well too, so what we got back for him is meaningless. :)

Cutler > Dak

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
01-31-2017, 10:07 PM
If getting rid of Cutler was so obvious than Elway would've done the same and he wouldn't have wasted the picks. (Unless some of those picks were in the 2nd round)

Wolfe

Jaded
01-31-2017, 10:08 PM
Lasting in the league beyond one's rookie contract is an accomplishment. Cox has started for multiple teams, as has Walton. Tebow won a playoff game and was a weapon in the running game, plus the 4th round value Elway recouped can be subtracted. I mean, you can laugh all you want, but none of those picks were busts. I'd rather have a rookie Walton than a 2nd year Schofield.

They all sucked, the value of three of them were laughable. McDaniels had a thing for wasting high picks on 4th to 7th round talents.

Jaded
01-31-2017, 10:09 PM
Wolfe

Broken clock.

Jaded
01-31-2017, 10:12 PM
If Denver can't get Romo maybe they should get Cutler.

chazoe60
01-31-2017, 10:16 PM
Lasting in the league beyond one's rookie contract is an accomplishment. Cox has started for multiple teams, as has Walton. Tebow won a playoff game and was a weapon in the running game, plus the 4th round value Elway recouped can be subtracted. I mean, you can laugh all you want, but none of those picks were busts. I'd rather have a rookie Walton than a 2nd year Schofield.

Missiles raining down from the sky, you look up and say "but isn't it a beautiful sunset"

UnderArmour
01-31-2017, 10:18 PM
They all sucked, the value of three of them were laughable. McDaniels had a thing for wasting high picks on 4th to 7th round talents.

I don't think you understand the value of each round. Not every round produces All-Pro players. A successful draft pick can just be a guy that starts for you a few years, or manages to contribute here and there on your roster. Cox and Walton were not bad draft picks. You're wrong.

Jaded
01-31-2017, 10:24 PM
Walton was a 3rd round pick, he's played for five different teams between '10 and '15. Been out of the league since then.

Perrish Cox raped a drunk chick.

Beadles is on his 3rd team.

Tebow is the worst pick of them all.

Jaded
01-31-2017, 10:26 PM
I don't think you understand the value of each round. Not every round produces All-Pro players. A successful draft pick can just be a guy that starts for you a few years, or manages to contribute here and there on your roster. Cox and Walton were not bad draft picks. You're wrong.

I know the draft, 1-3 round picks are premium picks.

Premium picks aren't "just be a guy", they never have been and they never will be.

Oh, hey, btw, you're describing Schofield here too.

Jaded
01-31-2017, 10:30 PM
Schoefield is "just a guy who can start for you" and all that, call some team ask offer him for a 3rd round pick.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
01-31-2017, 10:54 PM
Broken clock.

When was he right the second time?

Davii
01-31-2017, 11:30 PM
Did turn out that cutler sucked.

Just saying...

Turned out McDaniels sucked too

Joel
02-01-2017, 12:03 AM
Did turn out that cutler sucked.

Just saying...It's a lot more complicated. All the Kubiak-bashing for failing to fix an inherited awful line despite having NEVER DIRECTLY COACHED ANY ignores what he DID do with consummate mastery and success with the main position he DOES have experience coaching:

1) Juggling a fading HoF QBs huge well-earned ego and a green backup QBs equally huge yet UNearned ego DESPITE that terrible line that got BOTH of them AND his starting RB hurt, yet still managing to beat all the Conferences best teams (in the case of the previous and subsequent AFC Champ, TWICE,) en route to winning a dozen games, the #1 seed and finally a SB HIS FIRST YEAR. Madden famously said, "If you have 2 QBs you don't have any:" Kubiak DID.

2) Losing his HoF starter AND the experienced backup, yet winning 9 games against 7 playoff teams by turning a second-year 7th rounder who'd never had a pro SNAP into a decent starter, behind that same AWFUL line, while again losing his starting RB, this time for the rest of the season.

If the Cutler connection's unclear, it's that a good developmental coach is at least as important as ANYTHING else for turning great physical gifts into a legitimate franchise QB: And Cutler only had for two years. Maybe McDumbass could've done it, but he was too busy trying to get RID of Cutler for the great Matt Cassel AND a #1 overall pick, while lying to his face about it when asked point blank, so Cutler had to find out in the Denver Post.

Lovie Smith sure couldn't do it, and Martz' post-Vermeil removes all doubt of who the genius was there. Sure he had Trestman for a couple years, but by then Cutler was 30 and all his bad habits and reflexes were pretty much set in stone: Cutler the QB and thus Cutler the QB were already well and indelibly established.

I hate to say it (really) but fear the next few years with Lynch and (possibly) Siemian will give many of us a new appreciation for Kubiak.... :(

Joel
02-01-2017, 12:05 AM
They all sucked, the value of three of them were laughable. McDaniels had a thing for wasting high picks on 4th to 7th round talents.
Hmm... do you think he scouts OTs for Elway on the side...? ;)


I don't think you understand the value of each round. Not every round produces All-Pro players.
Absurd: I'm reliably informed ANY coach who's HALFWAY decent can turn 4th and 7th round talent into quality starters. And ANY coach who CAN'T is a no-talent hack.

Davii
02-01-2017, 09:03 AM
So even in a McDaniel's sucks thread you manage to make man love for Kubiak rather apparent. Bravo. Well done.

Joel
02-01-2017, 06:01 PM
So even in a McDaniel's sucks thread you manage to make man love for Kubiak rather apparent. Bravo. Well done.
I enjoy championships: Sue me.

Cugel
02-01-2017, 06:58 PM
I mean, it has been 6 years since he was fired here and there was no doubt he had a good draft the year we got DT, Decker, Beadles, Perrish Cox, Walton, and Tebow. He might be ready to step back in and do well if given the same circumstances he had here last time, but ditching Cutler was stupidity, trading essentially Earl Thomas for Alphonso Smith was unforgivable, and it was overall apparent he did not bother trying to command the respect of his players.

"I'm from New England kiss my rings!!" does not work as an approach in a proud, storied franchise like the Denver Broncos. It backfired on McDaniels, and instead of learning to work with the strong offensive personalities we had in Cutler, Marshall, Hillis, McDumbass decided the best way to command respect was to try to trade for a quarterback when we had one. He also decided to piss off his defensive coordinator (Mike Nolan) when it was obvious the D was overachieving on his watch, vastly improved from the dumpster fire the year before. There were flashes of brilliance, but most of the time the team just fell completely flat. Nobody can really "gloat" here if McDaniels was successful, because the time he had here was just such a disaster.

I do think he will be a great coach when he gets another chance, just because of how many unforgivable, horrendous mistakes he had the chance to learn from.

Bullshit. It was a horrible draft. Both of his drafts were absolute train wrecks. Some players like D.T. ultimately became successful, but not for McMoron. He was oft injured and considered a total bust until Fox & McCoy came to town.

The basterd drafted Tebow in the first round, and wasted multiple picks to move up to do it.

He traded a first round pick for a 2nd rounder, and drafted that Hall of Famer Darcell McBath. Then cut him after a failed season. McBath quickly flew out of the league.

One of his second round picks was traded to Seattle, who used it to draft Earl Thomas, who may very well wind up in Canton.

He actually was so senile that when the Redskins contacted him about giving him a 3rd round pick to flip places with Denver, so that they could draft LB Brian Orakpo, he turned them down. Everybody thought Denver would draft Orakpo, since they needed LB help bad, but the Redskins, who wanted Orakpo, thought it was worth trying, so they contacted McMoron and offered him a 3rd round pick to switch 1 draft place, moving up ahead of Denver. McMoron told them not to bother, "you're going to get your guy anyway." The Ass-hat threw away a free pick! Years later the Redskins GM was still laughing and shaking his head about it in commenting to sports writers.

And then drafted Knowshon Moreno when LB Clay Matthews and Orakpo were still on the board.

I could write a dissertation about the many obscene failures that constituted the McMoron era, but why drag up those dead zombies? I used to fantasize about punching him in the face, and I'd still like to do it. And I'm a peaceful man!
\
Edit: Actually it was craptastic Alphonso Smith, not Darcel McBath, who was drafted later in the same round. Yet another of McMoron's atrocities.

Cugel
02-01-2017, 07:05 PM
I enjoy championships: Sue me.

What the hell is the point of bringing up Kubiak all the time? It's not like Elway fired him. He retired. Voluntarily. Elway didn't want him to leave, he insisted, for reasons of health. For years my friend and I would shake our heads about his decision to keep coaching after his first stroke. He finally listened to his body.

Joel
02-01-2017, 07:22 PM
What the hell is the point of bringing up Kubiak all the time? It's not like Elway fired him. He retired. Voluntarily. Elway didn't want him to leave, he insisted, for reasons of health. For years my friend and I would shake our heads about his decision to keep coaching after his first stroke. He finally listened to his body.
First and foremost, because our young QBs are going to miss him WHYEVER he left. But as long as people are claiming Kubiaks health is just a smokescreen for Elway "forcing him out" because Kubiak "forced his guy Siemian" on the team over "Elways guy Lynch," Kubiak remains a topic. And frankly, I remain annoyed that so many people threw Kubiak under the bus EVEN WHILE HE WAS LEADING US TO OUR FIRST WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP IN TWO DECADES.

Jaded
02-01-2017, 10:46 PM
Broncos fans started shitting on Kubiak almost immediately, that was fairly annoying.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
02-01-2017, 11:16 PM
Broncos fans started shitting on Kubiak almost immediately, that was fairly annoying.

Bronco fans are different than what I remember 20 years ago. They're are a lot of entitled sissies these days

NightTerror218
02-01-2017, 11:35 PM
Broncos fans started shitting on Kubiak almost immediately, that was fairly annoying.

Just joel

Joel
02-02-2017, 02:57 AM
Just joel
Shitting on Kubiak's pretty much the exact opposite of what I've done.

Hope for the best, but the next franchise QB McCoy develops will be his first.

Jaded's right that Musgrave did good work on Carr, but from what little I've read on it he's (slightly) wrong about us bringing Kubiaks old Texans OL coach over from Jax: The Post lists Benton as ASSISTANT OL coach (http://www.denverpost.com/2017/01/13/denver-broncos-coaching-staff-tracker/) under Jeff Davidson, whom McCoy's bringing with him from the same position in SD. His 2015 Chargers line ranked 23rd in rushing DVOA and 24th in passing DVOA (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol2016) (for comparison, we were 18th and 27th; Jax was 27th and 9th.)

TXBRONC
02-02-2017, 08:17 AM
First and foremost, because our young QBs are going to miss him WHYEVER he left. But as long as people are claiming Kubiaks health is just a smokescreen for Elway "forcing him out" because Kubiak "forced his guy Siemian" on the team over "Elways guy Lynch," Kubiak remains a topic. And frankly, I remain annoyed that so many people threw Kubiak under the bus EVEN WHILE HE WAS LEADING US TO OUR FIRST WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP IN TWO DECADES.


That's just people throwing crap at a wall and hoping it will stick. They don't like dealing with reality. If Kubiak didn't have health issues he would still the Broncos head coach. People forget Elway has maintained the head coach has control over who starts and who sits.

Davii
02-02-2017, 11:35 AM
That's just people throwing crap at a wall and hoping it will stick. They don't like dealing with reality. If Kubiak didn't have health issues he would still the Broncos head coach. People forget Elway has maintained the head coach has control over who starts and who sits.

They also forget that the has said the HC has equal say in who gets drafted. Yes, Kubes would still be our coach and I would be happy

Broncoknight30
02-02-2017, 07:03 PM
It's a lot more complicated. All the Kubiak-bashing for failing to fix an inherited awful line despite having NEVER DIRECTLY COACHED ANY ignores what he DID do with consummate mastery and success with the main position he DOES have experience coaching:

1) Juggling a fading HoF QBs huge well-earned ego and a green backup QBs equally huge yet UNearned ego DESPITE that terrible line that got BOTH of them AND his starting RB hurt, yet still managing to beat all the Conferences best teams (in the case of the previous and subsequent AFC Champ, TWICE,) en route to winning a dozen games, the #1 seed and finally a SB HIS FIRST YEAR. Madden famously said, "If you have 2 QBs you don't have any:" Kubiak DID.

2) Losing his HoF starter AND the experienced backup, yet winning 9 games against 7 playoff teams by turning a second-year 7th rounder who'd never had a pro SNAP into a decent starter, behind that same AWFUL line, while again losing his starting RB, this time for the rest of the season.

If the Cutler connection's unclear, it's that a good developmental coach is at least as important as ANYTHING else for turning great physical gifts into a legitimate franchise QB: And Cutler only had for two years. Maybe McDumbass could've done it, but he was too busy trying to get RID of Cutler for the great Matt Cassel AND a #1 overall pick, while lying to his face about it when asked point blank, so Cutler had to find out in the Denver Post.

Lovie Smith sure couldn't do it, and Martz' post-Vermeil removes all doubt of who the genius was there. Sure he had Trestman for a couple years, but by then Cutler was 30 and all his bad habits and reflexes were pretty much set in stone: Cutler the QB and thus Cutler the QB were already well and indelibly established.

I hate to say it (really) but fear the next few years with Lynch and (possibly) Siemian will give many of us a new appreciation for Kubiak.... :(

I maintain then and I still believe now cutler was at fault. I think, and I think we can all assume Mcdick consulted a few people...about cutler. If we remember he kept a few coaches from shanahan. Like Bobby Turner etc.

I will guarantee you he got an earful about cutler. That may be an assumption on my part, but it is logical. Cutler displayed a brash arrogance under shanahan and it was going largely ignored. Btw, that "great year" 2008 when he made the pro bowl...should be looked at a little closer.

The Broncos offense in 2008 ranked 2nd and 16th in scoring. Cutler of course second in the NFL that year in ints and 5 of those were in the red zone. Take a look at how many tom Brady has had in his career, to give you how bad that is.

Another thing about that year is he had 616 pass attempts and was sacked 11 times. Not many QBs have had that ratio.

Btw, Peter King had reported Cutler wanted out before any report...by the Boston Globe came out. He had reported that cutler was upset about Jeremy Bates leaving and I am sure Mcdick was a "dick" in their first meeting.

The simple fact is Bus Cook played a power move on the youngster Mcdick. Scott Pioli, who was the new GM that year of KC, who eventually landed Cassell obviously leaked the inquiry of Cassell by Mcdaniels to his old friends at the globe, who again reported the rumor.

Cutler was a complete ass. He was an ass when he was here. The drafting of cutler sunk shanahan here imo. They had a great going with plummer and I thought they should have drafted Ngata in 2006 to bolster the DL.

Anyway......

It was a complete cluster f!*$ and the franchise suffered as a result of that pick.

Jaded
02-02-2017, 09:22 PM
Cutler wanted out? Prisons and jails are full of people that want out.

Does anyone think Tony Romo wants out?

Jaded
02-02-2017, 09:27 PM
Shitting on Kubiak's pretty much the exact opposite of what I've done.

Hope for the best, but the next franchise QB McCoy develops will be his first.

Jaded's right that Musgrave did good work on Carr, but from what little I've read on it he's (slightly) wrong about us bringing Kubiaks old Texans OL coach over from Jax: The Post lists Benton as ASSISTANT OL coach (http://www.denverpost.com/2017/01/13/denver-broncos-coaching-staff-tracker/) under Jeff Davidson, whom McCoy's bringing with him from the same position in SD. His 2015 Chargers line ranked 23rd in rushing DVOA and 24th in passing DVOA (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol2016) (for comparison, we were 18th and 27th; Jax was 27th and 9th.)

For real?

****ing for real?

Seriously?

****ing seriously?

****ing for seriously real?

Jaded
02-02-2017, 09:30 PM
When was he right the second time?

That was the second time, Tebow was the first.

Joel
02-03-2017, 05:41 AM
I maintain then and I still believe now cutler was at fault. I think, and I think we can all assume Mcdick consulted a few people...about cutler. If we remember he kept a few coaches from shanahan. Like Bobby Turner etc.

I will guarantee you he got an earful about cutler. That may be an assumption on my part, but it is logical. Cutler displayed a brash arrogance under shanahan and it was going largely ignored. Btw, that "great year" 2008 when he made the pro bowl...should be looked at a little closer.

The Broncos offense in 2008 ranked 2nd and 16th in scoring. Cutler of course second in the NFL that year in ints and 5 of those were in the red zone. Take a look at how many tom Brady has had in his career, to give you how bad that is.

Another thing about that year is he had 616 pass attempts and was sacked 11 times. Not many QBs have had that ratio.

Btw, Peter King had reported Cutler wanted out before any report...by the Boston Globe came out. He had reported that cutler was upset about Jeremy Bates leaving and I am sure Mcdick was a "dick" in their first meeting.

The simple fact is Bus Cook played a power move on the youngster Mcdick. Scott Pioli, who was the new GM that year of KC, who eventually landed Cassell obviously leaked the inquiry of Cassell by Mcdaniels to his old friends at the globe, who again reported the rumor.

Cutler was a complete ass. He was an ass when he was here. The drafting of cutler sunk shanahan here imo. They had a great going with plummer and I thought they should have drafted Ngata in 2006 to bolster the DL.

Anyway......

It was a complete cluster f!*$ and the franchise suffered as a result of that pick.
It was widely reported that when McDumbass began shopping Cutler Cutler asked him point blank if the rumors were true, and McDumbass lied to his face, only to have the local papers confirm it a few days later. There was no going back from that, and I don't think "it was Cutlers fault" McDumbass is a baldfaced liar; it's McDumbass' fault, or maybe his dads for not breaking him of that as a child.

We did NOT have a good thing going with Plummer; he never came back from his 2005 AFCCG meltdown, where he had 2 fumbles and 2 Ints at home in a flameout that would've made Schaub cringe. Plummer was always an instinctive player rather than the disciplined one Shanny and Kubes required him to be, and never comfortable in the latter role; it produced the best seasons of his career, but when he finally snapped there was no going back from that either. Once Kubiak left for Houston he was no longer around to manage Plummer, whose 2006 campaign continued the previous Januarys disaster. It's not like Shanny just got a wild hair to see what his rookie 1st rounder could do, any more than he drafted a QB there on a whim: 175/317 for 1994 yds, 11 TDs and 13 Ints was a BAD 11 games for Plummer.

I'll give you that 2008 season of 11 sacks in 616 atts was exceptional, but not terribly so for Shannys lines: In '04 Plummer was only sacked 15 times in 521 atts—and still managed to throw 20 Ints; Cutler didn't reach that total in '08 even with nearly 100 more atts. Conversely, Orton had 29 sacks in just 541 atts McDumbass' first year, about 3X as often, and it only got worse (in 2010 he was sacked 34 times in <500 atts.) We didn't return to Shannys sack levels until Manning arrived.

Cutlers agent wasn't why McDumbass wanted all his Cheatriot wubbies (or backup wubby, in Cassels case.) If we're speculating based on off the record sources, I read at the time that he not only wanted to trade a Pro Bowl alternate for an 11-5 QB (a reasonable expectation, if not desire,) but was working the phones on a 3-way trade that would give him Cassel AND Detroits #1 overall pick just for Cutler. That was never going to happen, but when Cutler found out McDumbass not only tried but also lied to his face about it, I don't blame him wanting out:

If you knew your boss was not only trying to replace you but lied to your face about it, would YOU wait around for the axe to inevitably fall?

Chicagos Swiss cheese line and defensively oriented coaching staff was a miserable landing place for Cutler, which I also noted at the time, but I don't blame him trying to maximize what little leverage he had while he still had it. He was never going to win a SB with McDumbass, but at least he'll have a comfortable retirement.

Northman
02-03-2017, 05:46 AM
Cutler wanted out? Prisons and jails are full of people that want out.

Does anyone think Tony Romo wants out?

King was the only one to report that while everyone else in the media called McDaniels out on his sneaky trade attempt. The only thing that Cutler was guilty of was being pissed that Shanahan was fired which is totally reasonable.

TXBRONC
02-03-2017, 09:34 AM
They also forget that the has said the HC has equal say in who gets drafted. Yes, Kubes would still be our coach and I would be happy

Thanks for mentioning that head coach has a say in who gets drafted. Elway has said in past that the head coach has a huge say in who gets drafted, the final decision is his but I doubt he would drafted Lynch if Kubiak wasn't on board with it.

BroncoWave
02-03-2017, 10:30 AM
King was the only one to report that while everyone else in the media called McDaniels out on his sneaky trade attempt. The only thing that Cutler was guilty of was being pissed that Shanahan was fired which is totally reasonable.

Is it common practice for teams to notify players when they are being discussed in trades? I can't imagine that's the case. The main reason being they don't want to strain the relationship with the player in case of the trade falling through.

BroncoJoe
02-03-2017, 11:14 AM
Is it common practice for teams to notify players when they are being discussed in trades? I can't imagine that's the case. The main reason being they don't want to strain the relationship with the player in case of the trade falling through.

I would doubt it as well. A lot of players that have been traded in the past usually say they were surprised to hear it.

BroncoWave
02-03-2017, 11:20 AM
I would doubt it as well. A lot of players that have been traded in the past usually say they were surprised to hear it.

Especially given the fact that for every trade that actually happens, there are probably 50 that are discussed and never go through. Almost no player is untouchable, and probably 99% of players get at least discussed in trades at some point or another. That's just part of the business. I honestly believe Cutler wanted out and he used the rumors of trade talks as leverage to force it. I think it would have been a toxic situation to keep him and would have turned out worse for the franchise then just letting him go, even if we didn't get the best deal in return.

Davii
02-03-2017, 11:39 AM
I would doubt it as well. A lot of players that have been traded in the past usually say they were surprised to hear it.

Is it common practice to lie to said player when asked if their name came up in a trade talk?

BroncoWave
02-03-2017, 01:03 PM
Is it common practice to lie to said player when asked if their name came up in a trade talk?

Probably. It's none of a player's business what trades are being discussed. Telling a player their are being shopped can only end poorly. Because if the trade falls through, the player still knows the team doesn't want him, and can lead to him being disgruntled.

Valar Morghulis
02-03-2017, 01:27 PM
Probably. It's none of a player's business what trades are being discussed. Telling a player their are being shopped can only end poorly. Because if the trade falls through, the player still knows the team doesn't want him, and can lead to him being disgruntled.

That's poor leadership.

If I'm asked a direct question, I give a direct answer, I expect them to be professional enough to continue to do what they are paid to do.

Football should be no different.

Once you lie, you lose your men's respect

MOtorboat
02-03-2017, 02:48 PM
Josh McDaniels is a beautiful man.

Nomad
02-03-2017, 02:52 PM
Josh McDaniels is a beautiful man.

His HC debute was not very good, but he saved the BRONCOS from Cutler.

BroncoWave
02-03-2017, 02:52 PM
That's poor leadership.

If I'm asked a direct question, I give a direct answer, I expect them to be professional enough to continue to do what they are paid to do.

Football should be no different.

Once you lie, you lose your men's respect

Nothing good can come from telling a player you're shopping them. If nothing else, you could respond something along the lines of "we can't discuss any trade talks with other teams with players" or something like that.

MOtorboat
02-03-2017, 02:53 PM
I thought Cutler got mad at McDaniels because McDaniels told him he did try to trade him. :whoknows: It was a long time ago, anyway and the loser (Cutler) is long gone.

Valar Morghulis
02-03-2017, 03:15 PM
Nothing good can come from telling a player you're shopping them. If nothing else, you could respond something along the lines of "we can't discuss any trade talks with other teams with players" or something like that.

I guess we will just need to agree to disagree. And you can remain wrong!

Joel
02-03-2017, 03:45 PM
Is it common practice for teams to notify players when they are being discussed in trades? I can't imagine that's the case. The main reason being they don't want to strain the relationship with the player in case of the trade falling through.
Is it common practice for coaches to lie the face of players who ask if they're being traded? That DEFINITELY "strains the relationship" if the trade falls though.

Joel
02-03-2017, 03:49 PM
Probably. It's none of a player's business what trades are being discussed. Telling a player their are being shopped can only end poorly. Because if the trade falls through, the player still knows the team doesn't want him, and can lead to him being disgruntled.
It's none of a players business if the team's discussing trading HIM? That's very much his business: It's his livelihood. Telling a player he's being shopped doesn't necessarily mean the team doesn't want him, only that he has value and they have needs elsewhere. But not VOLUNTEERING the information is very different than REFUSING it when the player has ALREADY heard and asks confirmation. That's GUARANTEED to cause "disgruntlement" that "strains the relationship."

Because people don't like being lied to, ESPECIALLY about their employment.

Broncoknight30
02-03-2017, 04:12 PM
It was widely reported that when McDumbass began shopping Cutler Cutler asked him point blank if the rumors were true, and McDumbass lied to his face, only to have the local papers confirm it a few days later. There was no going back from that, and I don't think "it was Cutlers fault" McDumbass is a baldfaced liar; it's McDumbass' fault, or maybe his dads for not breaking him of that as a child.

We did NOT have a good thing going with Plummer; he never came back from his 2005 AFCCG meltdown, where he had 2 fumbles and 2 Ints at home in a flameout that would've made Schaub cringe. Plummer was always an instinctive player rather than the disciplined one Shanny and Kubes required him to be, and never comfortable in the latter role; it produced the best seasons of his career, but when he finally snapped there was no going back from that either. Once Kubiak left for Houston he was no longer around to manage Plummer, whose 2006 campaign continued the previous Januarys disaster. It's not like Shanny just got a wild hair to see what his rookie 1st rounder could do, any more than he drafted a QB there on a whim: 175/317 for 1994 yds, 11 TDs and 13 Ints was a BAD 11 games for Plummer.

I'll give you that 2008 season of 11 sacks in 616 atts was exceptional, but not terribly so for Shannys lines: In '04 Plummer was only sacked 15 times in 521 atts—and still managed to throw 20 Ints; Cutler didn't reach that total in '08 even with nearly 100 more atts. Conversely, Orton had 29 sacks in just 541 atts McDumbass' first year, about 3X as often, and it only got worse (in 2010 he was sacked 34 times in <500 atts.) We didn't return to Shannys sack levels until Manning arrived.

Cutlers agent wasn't why McDumbass wanted all his Cheatriot wubbies (or backup wubby, in Cassels case.) If we're speculating based on off the record sources, I read at the time that he not only wanted to trade a Pro Bowl alternate for an 11-5 QB (a reasonable expectation, if not desire,) but was working the phones on a 3-way trade that would give him Cassel AND Detroits #1 overall pick just for Cutler. That was never going to happen, but when Cutler found out McDumbass not only tried but also lied to his face about it, I don't blame him wanting out:

If you knew your boss was not only trying to replace you but lied to your face about it, would YOU wait around for the axe to inevitably fall?

Chicagos Swiss cheese line and defensively oriented coaching staff was a miserable landing place for Cutler, which I also noted at the time, but I don't blame him trying to maximize what little leverage he had while he still had it. He was never going to win a SB with McDumbass, but at least he'll have a comfortable retirement.

There are a few problems with your point of view in my opinion. Who cares if Mcdick lied to pampers? Seriously. Do you know every player is discussed in trades every year? You do not think we hear about all of them, do you? It is ridiculous. If Mcdick listened to offers and poor pampers was so offended by that, that is not the fault of Mcdick.

I think you are dismissing the Pioli factor. You also I think do not consider the track record of Bus Cook and how he uses public pressure to gain leverage for his client. ALL of the top agents do that, and Bus Cook is rather infamous for it. His most famous client was Brett Favre, who he really used the public to barter deals for him. One of his other clients Steve McNair (RIP)he used public pressure. I don't know if you remember then Mcnair showed up to the facility to "work out" when he was not under contract. Well, Cook knew he was not allowed and of course he was turned away. The papers picked up on it and the public really came down on them.

He did the same thing for Cutler, who as I said displayed his desire to leave when Bates left. That was before any of the reports of Mcdick fielding calls. Cutler's house was up for sale at the time he said he did not want out.

Sorry, but Cutler conclusively showed what he is all about. Not just with Mcdick, he displayed it with Shanahan. He was a spoiled brat, underachieving ass in Chicago. BTW, they hired Jeremy Bates there too. Did not work out. He did not work out with ANY coach. It is beyond conclusive that Cutler has been a complete bust. He was never a franchise QB.

While Mcdick was a disaster, he has shown he has the utter respect of Belichick. I doubt Belichick would just give Mcdick the wheel to the offense if he thought he was incompetent.

Also, Plummer was as a hell of a QB. The drafting of Cutler destroyed his confidence. So, he had a bad game against the Steelers. Did not help in the AFCCG that the Steelers converted 9 3rd and longs. That was the reason they won. Cedric Wilson? Remember him?

Cutler was and will always be a joke.

Broncoknight30
02-03-2017, 04:24 PM
It's none of a players business if the team's discussing trading HIM? That's very much his business: It's his livelihood. Telling a player he's being shopped doesn't necessarily mean the team doesn't want him, only that he has value and they have needs elsewhere. But not VOLUNTEERING the information is very different than REFUSING it when the player has ALREADY heard and asks confirmation. That's GUARANTEED to cause "disgruntlement" that "strains the relationship."

Because people don't like being lied to, ESPECIALLY about their employment.
Kind of surprised you think the front office is completely up front with every player in regards to discussing trades. You cannot be that naive, can you? Sometimes there is a leak.

I think you would be shocked who is discussed in trades. I guarantee you Tom Brady is discussed in trades. Everyone is. Von Miller has been.

If Mcd fielded calls and listened to offers, that is not the same thing as having a desire to trade him.

And no, it really is not any of their business unless he is actually traded. None of his business. Sorry, that is the way it is.

Broncoknight30
02-03-2017, 05:04 PM
Is it common practice for coaches to lie the face of players who ask if they're being traded? That DEFINITELY "strains the relationship" if the trade falls though.

Read this article


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/03/02/report-cutler-had-already-asked-for-a-trade/

Cutler asked to be traded....

Due to Jeremy Bates leaving. Not what bus cook said.

Joel
02-03-2017, 06:59 PM
There are a few problems with your point of view in my opinion. Who cares if Mcdick lied to pampers? Seriously. Do you know every player is discussed in trades every year? You do not think we hear about all of them, do you? It is ridiculous. If Mcdick listened to offers and poor pampers was so offended by that, that is not the fault of Mcdick.
There's a big difference between merely listening to offers vs. MAKING them and LYING about it when asked by the player involved (which somehow makes it "none of his business"?) If discussing trade offers is so routine, why lie to the player about it?


Also, Plummer was as a hell of a QB. The drafting of Cutler destroyed his confidence. So, he had a bad game against the Steelers. Did not help in the AFCCG that the Steelers converted 9 3rd and longs. That was the reason they won. Cedric Wilson? Remember him?
Yes, Plummer was QB Hell: Coughing the ball up 4 times in a home game to go to the SB destroyed his confidence, reminding Shanny just how fragile it had always been, so we drafted a replacement. Even if said replacement were the worst QB who'd ever thrown a ball, that still wouldn't make Plummer any less a flameout.


Kind of surprised you think the front office is completely up front with every player in regards to discussing trades. You cannot be that naive, can you? Sometimes there is a leak.
Right: Because that's the ONLY way Cutler found out about it before it happened.


I think you would be shocked who is discussed in trades. I guarantee you Tom Brady is discussed in trades. Everyone is. Von Miller has been.
I doubt their coaches lied to their faces about when they asked. Once again: If it's no big deal, why lie...?


If Mcd fielded calls and listened to offers, that is not the same thing as having a desire to trade him.
Yeah, but MAKING those calls because he was so desperate to regain Cassel was DEFINITELY a desire to trade him. Answering=/=dialing.


And no, it really is not any of their business unless he is actually traded. None of his business. Sorry, that is the way it is.
It's LITERALLY their business: They're the ones putting their bodies on the line to collect the salaries. So wanting to merely know what's going on isn't asking too much. Expecting your boss not to lie to your face DEFINITELY isn't asking too much; if an employee does that it's grounds for termination pretty much everywhere.


Read this article

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/03/02/report-cutler-had-already-asked-for-a-trade/

Cutler asked to be traded....

Due to Jeremy Bates leaving. Not what bus cook said.
Citing the SAME King article AGAIN isn't "confirmation."

Jaded
02-03-2017, 10:55 PM
The Broncos did, in fact, bring Benton in to coach the OL.

Suck it WORLD!

Davii
02-04-2017, 12:02 AM
That's poor leadership.

If I'm asked a direct question, I give a direct answer, I expect them to be professional enough to continue to do what they are paid to do.

Football should be no different.

Once you lie, you lose your men's respect

Agreed 100%. Terrible leadership. No integrity.

Joel
02-04-2017, 02:02 AM
The Broncos did, in fact, bring Benton in to coach the OL.

Suck it WORLD!
To ASSISTANT coach the line. Under Jeff Davidson, McCoys OL coach in SD, who's now our OL coach.

Broncoknight30
02-04-2017, 08:48 AM
Agreed 100%. Terrible leadership. No integrity.

Well, it did turn out that it was Cutler that lied. Joel may say Peter King's article was not confirmed, that is fine. That is his belief. Nothing I can do or say to convince him otherwise. I remember when that article came out at the time.

The fact is Cutler had his house up for sale as he told a Denver Post reporter that he had no intention of leaving. He was then confronted with the fact that his house was up for sale and he avoided the subject. Then Bus Cook put out the idea that Cutler was lied to by Mcd. A notion that many Broncos fans believe to this day.

You all want to dismiss the Scott Pioli factor too? He had been the GM for the Pats and was the brand new GM for the Chiefs. He had a working and close relationship with the Boston Globe. At that moment, Pioli was in direct competition with the Broncos. It only stands to reason he leaked the inquiry of Matt Cassell by Mcd to the Globe. The Chiefs ended up getting him, and it was REPORTED by the Boston Globe.

BTW, you should know that Bus Cook also had a long relationship with Scott Pioli, who also had key players that Cook represented on the Chiefs. To just throw all of that out is curious to me to say the least.

Do you all think the front office is "up front" with ALL of their players and tell them about trade talks they may be involved with? Do you all really think the front office just comes out and tells every player about those discussions?

Also, why is it we all just dismiss all of the things we now know about Cutler? He was an absolute coach killer. He was a dour person everywhere he was. Was some of it due to the diabetes? Maybe. The fact is he was a bust. Period.

As the years went by, I know my instincts about him being a brash asshat was right. It started with him making the statements about Elways arm. It included reports that Cutler did not impress Elway the first time he met him according reports where Cutler disrespected him. It also included a game in 2007 when Cutler Of course threw a few picks in Oakland and he turned his back on Shanahan on the sideline. He displayed his arrogance from the moment he was drafted in Denver and it carried on through out his bust of a career.

100% integrity? You think player agents are filled with that? Ever see the reputation of Scott Pioli?

You all have to be kidding.

Joel
02-04-2017, 10:09 AM
Well, it did turn out that it was Cutler that lied. Joel may say Peter King's article was not confirmed, that is fine. That is his belief. Nothing I can do or say to convince him otherwise. I remember when that article came out at the time.
It's not confirmed until/unless someone other than King reports it.


The fact is Cutler had his house up for sale as he told a Denver Post reporter that he had no intention of leaving. He was then confronted with the fact that his house was up for sale and he avoided the subject. Then Bus Cook put out the idea that Cutler was lied to by Mcd. A notion that many Broncos fans believe to this day.

You all want to dismiss the Scott Pioli factor too? He had been the GM for the Pats and was the brand new GM for the Chiefs. He had a working and close relationship with the Boston Globe. At that moment, Pioli was in direct competition with the Broncos. It only stands to reason he leaked the inquiry of Matt Cassell by Mcd to the Globe. The Chiefs ended up getting him, and it was REPORTED by the Boston Globe.

BTW, you should know that Bus Cook also had a long relationship with Scott Pioli, who also had key players that Cook represented on the Chiefs. To just throw all of that out is curious to me to say the least.
That's not chrono- nor otherwise logical. McDumbass was NOT calling OFFERING Cutler, but WAS competing with KC for Cassel? Why, to backup Cutler? :confused:


Do you all think the front office is "up front" with ALL of their players and tell them about trade talks they may be involved with? Do you all really think the front office just comes out and tells every player about those discussions?
I doubt they volunteer it, no, but saying nothing unasked is VERY different from denying it when asked. Because only one of those is a baldfaced LIE. I don't know about you, but when people lie to my face, it tends to "strain our relationship." Especially when they're lying about my CAREER (even if that's "none of my business.")


Also, why is it we all just dismiss all of the things we now know about Cutler? He was an absolute coach killer. He was a dour person everywhere he was. Was some of it due to the diabetes? Maybe. The fact is he was a bust. Period.

As the years went by, I know my instincts about him being a brash asshat was right.
Always come down to that: "I hated him from the start, so let's see how I can justify that after the fact." Funny, hearing Doogie Howser was trying a 3-way trade of Cutler for Cassel AND the #1 overall pick convinced ME he was a "brass asshat" right form the start, and I've been at least as vindicated by what followed. Trading up for the SECs dual-threat du jour. Dismantling a powerful offense, then bringing in guys like Barone and McCoy to "fix" what was never broken until HE broke it. Cussing his players, staff and the press to show them he's a big boy now. Cheating. A 4-12 season even WITH the cheating. I'd take Cutler over all THAT crap in heartbeat.


It started with him making the statements about Elways arm. It included reports that Cutler did not impress Elway the first time he met him according reports where Cutler disrespected him. It also included a game in 2007 when Cutler Of course threw a few picks in Oakland and he turned his back on Shanahan on the sideline. He displayed his arrogance from the moment he was drafted in Denver and it carried on through out his bust of a career.
More "reports;" by whom? I don't mean who printed them, I mean who SAID that. Because the problem with "anonymous sources" is that there's no way to know if it's a genuine insider withholding his own name for fear of retaliation, or just a beat reporter making up stuff and attributing it some fictional insider to make it look credible. As a rule, anything that's NEVER confirmed by ANYONE is only a "scoop" in the dogpark sense of the word. ;)


100% integrity? You think player agents are filled with that? Ever see the reputation of Scott Pioli?

You all have to be kidding.
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/tu-quoque Several times over; apparently Cutler's the ONLY one involved who can't be trusted implicitly.

Northman
02-04-2017, 10:54 AM
That's poor leadership.

If I'm asked a direct question, I give a direct answer, I expect them to be professional enough to continue to do what they are paid to do.

Football should be no different.

Once you lie, you lose your men's respect


Boom.

Deception was one of the things that strained the relationship between Elway and Reeves.

Northman
02-04-2017, 10:56 AM
Read this article


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/03/02/report-cutler-had-already-asked-for-a-trade/

Cutler asked to be traded....

Due to Jeremy Bates leaving. Not what bus cook said.


Again, only one report from King. No other media outlet confirmed this rumor (yes rumor) that King threw out in the wind.

BroncoWave
02-04-2017, 11:37 AM
I'll still maintain that it's none of a player's business what trades a team is discussing. If they actually get traded it's obviously their business, but not until then.

Valar Morghulis
02-04-2017, 11:46 AM
I'll still maintain that it's none of a player's business what trades a team is discussing. If they actually get traded it's obviously their business, but not until then.

You are still wrong then!

Joel
02-04-2017, 11:47 AM
I'll still maintain that it's none of a player's business what trades a team is discussing. If they actually get traded it's obviously their business, but not until then.
Take the statement about Cutler putting his house on the market: That's a perfect example why a player has strong financial reasons to want to know if he's on the trading block BEFORE the deal's final. Ask anyone who's ever been transferred, laid off or fired if it was any of their business even a moment before it happened.

Northman
02-04-2017, 12:02 PM
For me its not about whether or not its the player's business to know who is going to be traded or not. But when you are asked point blank what the deal is and then the coach straight up lies to your face that destroys any kind of trust factor you might have. When you have a HC who is supposed to be a leader of men lying to you i dont see how any player can trust the guy at his word and i can totally understand why the Broncos players didnt like him.

Jaded
02-04-2017, 12:11 PM
What did Cutler lie about?

Joel
02-04-2017, 12:23 PM
What did Cutler lie about?
Supposedly he lied about McDumbass lying. Still sounds like a case of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." Because that line of reasoning's worked out SO well for the place that invented it. Sometimes even choosing is a false dichotomy: It's just remotely possible McDumbass AND Cutler were BOTH worthless ********.

Broncoknight30
02-04-2017, 12:40 PM
Supposedly he lied about McDumbass lying. Still sounds like a case of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." Because that line of reasoning's worked out SO well for the place that invented it. Sometimes even choosing is a false dichotomy: It's just remotely possible McDumbass AND Cutler were BOTH worthless ********.

Peter King lied. Got it.

Cutler was so great. No, actually he sucked. The only thing that has been actually proven 9 years later is cutler was never a franchise QB. Ever.

His dour personality followed everywhere and the only ones clinging to the false notion that he was ever a franchise QB are those broncos fans who can't believe any player is ever discussed in trades without their knowledge.

I did not say there was a big war for Cassell between Pioli and Mcd. What I did say was it was in Piolis interest to cause problems for Mcd in Denver by leaking it to the Globe.

What I do believe is pampers wanted out when Bates left. I believe he told his agent and his agent worked a deal. He has a big reputation for using the public to gain leverage.

I am even willing to bet Mcd learned a lesson about the "friends" thing in the NFL. I can almost bet he never trusted Pioli again.

All speculation. The bottom line is cutler turned out to the turd some of us thought he was.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
02-04-2017, 01:28 PM
Peter King is not a Broncos insider. He totally whiffed on Tebow rumors

Joel
02-05-2017, 06:59 AM
Peter King lied. Got it.

Cutler was so great. No, actually he sucked. The only thing that has been actually proven 9 years later is cutler was never a franchise QB. Ever.

His dour personality followed everywhere and the only ones clinging to the false notion that he was ever a franchise QB are those broncos fans who can't believe any player is ever discussed in trades without their knowledge.
One opinion of Cutler as a player or person is irrelevant to whether lying is an acceptable, professional or even practical way to run any organization.


I did not say there was a big war for Cassell between Pioli and Mcd. What I did say was it was in Piolis interest to cause problems for Mcd in Denver by leaking it to the Globe.
Right: Even King didn't say THAT happened, it's pure speculation to fit a preconceived narrative.


What I do believe is pampers wanted out when Bates left. I believe he told his agent and his agent worked a deal. He has a big reputation for using the public to gain leverage.
Everyone's entitled to BELIEVE whatever they wish, but NOT to expect anyone else to accept those beliefs as FACT absent ANY supporting evidence.


I am even willing to bet Mcd learned a lesson about the "friends" thing in the NFL. I can almost bet he never trusted Pioli again.
I'm betting Cutler never TRUSTED McDumbass again after McDumbass LIED TO HIS FACE. That's guaranteed to destroy any personal or professional relationship, and painting McDumbass as the victim here despite all we know about HIS subsequent behavioral history is absurd.


All speculation. The bottom line is cutler turned out to the turd some of us thought he was.
Which remains irrelevant to whether it was OK to INITIATE trade talks with other teams but lie to his face about it when asked point blank. No one's saying GMs can't trade people, only that they shouldn't lie to people who ask point blank about huge changes to their careers.

7DnBrnc53
02-05-2017, 04:34 PM
Well, it did turn out that it was Cutler that lied. Joel may say Peter King's article was not confirmed, that is fine. That is his belief. Nothing I can do or say to convince him otherwise. I remember when that article came out at the time.

The fact is Cutler had his house up for sale as he told a Denver Post reporter that he had no intention of leaving. He was then confronted with the fact that his house was up for sale and he avoided the subject. Then Bus Cook put out the idea that Cutler was lied to by Mcd. A notion that many Broncos fans believe to this day.

You all want to dismiss the Scott Pioli factor too? He had been the GM for the Pats and was the brand new GM for the Chiefs. He had a working and close relationship with the Boston Globe. At that moment, Pioli was in direct competition with the Broncos. It only stands to reason he leaked the inquiry of Matt Cassell by Mcd to the Globe. The Chiefs ended up getting him, and it was REPORTED by the Boston Globe.

BTW, you should know that Bus Cook also had a long relationship with Scott Pioli, who also had key players that Cook represented on the Chiefs. To just throw all of that out is curious to me to say the least.

Do you all think the front office is "up front" with ALL of their players and tell them about trade talks they may be involved with? Do you all really think the front office just comes out and tells every player about those discussions?

Also, why is it we all just dismiss all of the things we now know about Cutler? He was an absolute coach killer. He was a dour person everywhere he was. Was some of it due to the diabetes? Maybe. The fact is he was a bust. Period.

As the years went by, I know my instincts about him being a brash asshat was right. It started with him making the statements about Elways arm. It included reports that Cutler did not impress Elway the first time he met him according reports where Cutler disrespected him. It also included a game in 2007 when Cutler Of course threw a few picks in Oakland and he turned his back on Shanahan on the sideline. He displayed his arrogance from the moment he was drafted in Denver and it carried on through out his bust of a career.

100% integrity? You think player agents are filled with that? Ever see the reputation of Scott Pioli?

You all have to be kidding.

I heard that Scott Pioli had the paranoia level pretty high when he was GM of the Chiefs. For example, I think the phones were always checked for bugs, and he had the windows to the practice facility blacked out.

As for Cutler, I think that he was somewhat of a turnover machine in 2008. I watched the Miami@Denver game from that season on You Tube a year or so ago, and it seemed to me that Jay was throwing it to the Dolphins practically all day. He was just an undisciplined gunslinger.

Also, while we are on this Cutler topic, here's something to think about: When the Broncos were trading Jay, Washington was really interested. Apparently, a three-way trade between the Redskins, Broncos, and Browns fell through at the last minute. I don't know the exact details, but my guess would be that Jason Campbell would have gone to Cleveland, and Brady Quinn would have come to Denver.

MOtorboat
02-05-2017, 05:45 PM
Pioli didn't have press conferences for new free agents. He had conference calls where the press was on the ground floor and the player was a level above. Not kidding.

Jaded
02-05-2017, 05:53 PM
I w*nder why Pi*li and McD*niels are so paran*id? **** if I know.

Broncoknight30
02-05-2017, 07:07 PM
Pioli didn't have press conferences for new free agents. He had conference calls where the press was on the ground floor and the player was a level above. Not kidding.

Kind of reminds me this quote from George Bernard Shaw.

"The liar's punishment is, not in the least that he is not believed, but that he cannot believe anyone else."

Most people who are that paranoid are that way cause of the shady things they themselves do.

Pioli had a reputation and there is more than one reason why I think he was behind the leaks to the Boston Globe.

It was still none of cutler business if he was being discussed in a trade.

MOtorboat
02-05-2017, 07:10 PM
Kind of reminds me this quote from George Bernard Shaw.

"The liar's punishment is, not in the least that he is not believed, but that he cannot believe anyone else."

Most people who are that paranoid are that way cause of the shady things they themselves do.

Pioli had a reputation and there is more than one reason why I think he was behind the leaks to the Boston Globe.

It was still none of cutler business if he was being discussed in a trade.

No, it's not Cutler's business. Agreed.

GEM
02-06-2017, 12:00 AM
Every time I saw his nasty little face on tv tonight I wanted to send Peyton Hillis after his wife again! I still seethe every time I see his effing mug.

Joel
02-06-2017, 12:26 AM
Every time I saw his nasty little face on tv tonight I wanted to send Peyton Hillis after his wife again! I still seethe every time I see his effing mug.
She likely feels the same way, on all counts.... ;)