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Jsteve01
01-14-2017, 02:01 PM
I am reserving judgment but this statement has always been at the core of great coaching to me. Say what you like about McCoy and Musgrave but they've shown the ability to do that as well. I heard the Tomlin analogy. If Joseph coaches that well combined with Elway filling the roster then this could be a fantastic hire.

Traveler
01-14-2017, 02:07 PM
That statement was one of the best parts of VJ's press conference. Let's hope they will be able to make a successful go of it.

Jsteve01
01-14-2017, 02:08 PM
It's why Wade is a great coordinator. Have your guys do what they can do well

Hawgdriver
01-14-2017, 02:10 PM
That one statement reduced my riot factor by half. Then he brings in McCoy and Musgrave, reduces it another half. Still skeptical, but more rationally hopeful now.

DenBronx
01-14-2017, 04:08 PM
That one statement reduced my riot factor by half. Then he brings in McCoy and Musgrave, reduces it another half. Still skeptical, but more rationally hopeful now.

That's kinda what Stokely and Cecil were saying on The Fan. Said fans were in full riot mode (mostly because of losing Wade and not hiring Kyle) until hiring both McCoy and Musgrave. But Stokely had concerns because McCoy and Musgrave run two totally different offenses and he thinks it might not be a good fit. Meaning maybe everyone might not be on the same page.

Still, I think losing Wade was more important than hiring anyone else. For the life of me, I don't know why we would mess with this defense.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
01-14-2017, 09:47 PM
That one statement reduced my riot factor by half. Then he brings in McCoy and Musgrave, reduces it another half. Still skeptical, but more rationally hopeful now.

.25 riot factor is still considered reckless intention.

Jaded
01-14-2017, 10:39 PM
That's because "fits the scheme" is the biggest bunch of bullshit ever.

chazoe60
01-14-2017, 10:46 PM
I think Pitt is going to the SB.

chazoe60
01-14-2017, 10:48 PM
Clowney blew that run up.

Denver Native (Carol)
01-14-2017, 10:49 PM
If the new DC ends up to be either Joe Woods, or Reggie Herring, I would think the defense would stay the same.

chazoe60
01-14-2017, 10:51 PM
I think Pitt is going to the SB.


Clowney blew that run up.

Oops, wrong thread. :laugh::laugh:

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
01-14-2017, 11:18 PM
Oops, wrong thread. :laugh::laugh:

Huffin gas bro? :laugh:

chazoe60
01-14-2017, 11:24 PM
Huffin gas bro? :laugh:

Always

Dapper Dan
01-15-2017, 05:08 AM
I am reserving judgment but this statement has always been at the core of great coaching to me. Say what you like about McCoy and Musgrave but they've shown the ability to do that as well. I heard the Tomlin analogy. If Joseph coaches that well combined with Elway filling the roster then this could be a fantastic hire.

Tomlin. Dungy. Are people just comparing him to successful black coaches at this point?

Rick
01-15-2017, 09:54 AM
My comparison is too a similarly over hyped white guy. I see Dennis Allen all over him. Our new coach is black? I hadn't noticed, I was paying too close attention to his DC stats.

His offensive hires have me hoping that I am wrong.

pnbronco
01-15-2017, 10:51 AM
Oops, wrong thread. :laugh::laugh:

I just thought you were trying to bring the riot factor down even more....like look over here......:laugh:

Jsteve01
01-15-2017, 02:21 PM
My comparison is too a similarly over hyped white guy. I see Dennis Allen all over him. Our new coach is black? I hadn't noticed, I was paying too close attention to his DC stats.

His offensive hires have me hoping that I am wrong.


i think Allen is a great leader. Still like him. He took over a horrid roster while Mckenzie was still purging contracts. Iti was a horrid situation for a first time coach. I think he'll be a head coach again and do well.

Shazam!
01-15-2017, 03:03 PM
This is what Coaching up is all about. No square peg round hole.

nevcraw
01-15-2017, 05:40 PM
My comparison is too a similarly over hyped white guy. I see Dennis Allen all over him. Our new coach is black? I hadn't noticed, I was paying too close attention to his DC stats.

His offensive hires have me hoping that I am wrong.

Allen was a much better DC than Joseph. But not sure there is any other comparison except both were DC's previously.

Jospeh is inheriting a good team and is highly regarded by everyone as a leader and gets respect from his players. The pick wasn't Sexy enough for some but we don't need sexy we someone to get the most out of the talent.
His hires have been solid and he kept the DC they want to build around versus holding on to wade for a couple more years and let the stud young guy go elsewhere. So far I am giving them an a plus for the work done since Kubes retired.

Cugel
01-17-2017, 07:56 PM
It's why Wade is a great coordinator. Have your guys do what they can do well

That's a key to success in business too. A successful boss comes in and asks her employees: "What works for you? What doesn't work?" And then tells them all to do what works and don't do what doesn't work.

Joel
01-18-2017, 04:03 AM
That's a key to success in business too. A successful boss comes in and asks her employees: "What works for you? What doesn't work?" And then tells them all to do what works and don't do what doesn't work.
"Indefinite paid vacations work GREAT for me, boss: Do it for the shareholders! :)"

Rick
01-18-2017, 07:56 AM
Allen was a much better DC than Joseph. But not sure there is any other comparison except both were DC's previously.

Jospeh is inheriting a good team and is highly regarded by everyone as a leader and gets respect from his players. The pick wasn't Sexy enough for some but we don't need sexy we someone to get the most out of the talent.
His hires have been solid and he kept the DC they want to build around versus holding on to wade for a couple more years and let the stud young guy go elsewhere. So far I am giving them an a plus for the work done since Kubes retired.

My comparison with them both is they were defensive back coaches that for some reason that who knows why, both were rated to be the next big thing very soon as HC.

Dennis Allen to me was just a guy at DC, I never saw anything especially great out of him, he went to be a HC, again based on some reputation that he had from who knows where and he flamed out.

VJ as I mentioned was in the same boat, a DB coach said to be a coming great HC, why?

But as I mentioned, I am willing to see what happens without bitching too much more because I think he is doing a solid job with his offensive hires.

Broncoknight30
01-18-2017, 10:38 AM
I am reserving judgment but this statement has always been at the core of great coaching to me. Say what you like about McCoy and Musgrave but they've shown the ability to do that as well. I heard the Tomlin analogy. If Joseph coaches that well combined with Elway filling the roster then this could be a fantastic hire.

Of course the one main thing with Tomlin is he kept the defensive staff in tact with Lebeau. Even though Tomlin himself was a different defensive philosophy with his Tampa 2 past. The Steelers as a result remained the #1 defense in 2007 and 08.

Also, the ONE and ONLY season Tomlin had as a DC, the Vikings were a top 10 defense in 2006. Not 29th overall in the NFL.

The simple fact is we have nothing other than hope and trust in Elways judgement for this. That is all we really have.

Cugel
01-18-2017, 12:02 PM
"Indefinite paid vacations work GREAT for me, boss: Do it for the shareholders! :)"

Long-ass paid vacations don't increase profits, so no, that doesn't "work" for the company. It's what works for the company, not just the employee. It's just that a company that maximizes what employees do well, will be profitable.

Joel
01-18-2017, 06:49 PM
"Players First Scheme second: If it doesn't fit the players let's not do it"That's a key to success in business too. A successful boss comes in and asks her employees: "What works for you? What doesn't work?" And then tells them all to do what works and don't do what doesn't work.
I agree great coaches play to their players existing strengths even while developing new ones, but the second part's at least as important as the first. Outsourcing and downsizing don't "fit" (existing) employees well at all, but have been the DEFINING metric of the biggest business "success" for decades. This feels less like finding coaches who fit players than coaches who fit Elway (which some may recall as a popular criticism of hiring Kubiak, Wade and Dennison in the first place.)

Cugel
01-21-2017, 12:55 PM
I agree great coaches play to their players existing strengths even while developing new ones, but the second part's at least as important as the first. Outsourcing and downsizing don't "fit" (existing) employees well at all, but have been the DEFINING metric of the biggest business "success" for decades. This feels less like finding coaches who fit players than coaches who fit Elway (which some may recall as a popular criticism of hiring Kubiak, Wade and Dennison in the first place.)

Most of this is a side issue. As to whether "outsourcing" and "downsizing" create a viable long-term business that is very debatable. I can say that my uncle who was a former CEO of Gillette didn't believe that. At all. But that was some years ago now. Maybe building a company, valuing your employees, involving them in workplace decisions and getting the most out of them is no longer fashionable in the US in big business.

But, as a small business man, I can say with perfect confidence that screwing and de-valuing your employees, giving them responsibilities that don't fit well with their skill sets and then blaming them for any resulting failures is not a great strategy for success. If I treated people who have worked for me like that I would fail almost immediately.

I don't think it's much of a successful formula in the NFL either. We know that's not how the Broncos won the SB.

Joel
01-21-2017, 10:10 PM
Most of this is a side issue. As to whether "outsourcing" and "downsizing" create a viable long-term business that is very debatable. I can say that my uncle who was a former CEO of Gillette didn't believe that. At all. But that was some years ago now. Maybe building a company, valuing your employees, involving them in workplace decisions and getting the most out of them is no longer fashionable in the US in big business.

But, as a small business man, I can say with perfect confidence that screwing and de-valuing your employees, giving them responsibilities that don't fit well with their skill sets and then blaming them for any resulting failures is not a great strategy for success. If I treated people who have worked for me like that I would fail almost immediately.

I don't think it's much of a successful formula in the NFL either. We know that's not how the Broncos won the SB.
I agree in principle, but my point is that when an employee in ANY business is COMPLETELY incompetent, the solution isn't to vainly seek the ONE thing that employee's good at, then reorient the entire organization to suit those few meager strengths. If only because that won't "work" for most of the REST of the workforce.


Rookies start at RB, at WR, even at QB. Very few start at G.

Which brings up a weird footnote on terminology. Runners and passers and catchers are always referred to as playing the "skill positions." Linemen, of course, are "unskilled." The idea seems to be that you need an apprenticeship, six sponsors, and a union card before you're allowed to touch the football, but any brainless lummox can shove Rosey Taylor around for an afternoon. It sounds as if you could make an offensive line by counting off the first five winos in an alley. Odd. Have you ever noticed how many NFL head coaches used to be offensive linemen?
That's from 1988s The Hidden Game of Football; then the 'Skins linemen made QBs like Doug Williams and Mark Rypien SB Champs, and the early '90s Cowboys and late '90s Broncos made offensive linemen respectable. A little. The OTs anyway, and REALLY good pulling Gs. During their SB runs, there were a few stories about Dallas' linemen spending their offseason learning judo, but most stories focused on things like Nate Newton eating entire tables full of food at each meal.

THREE of our STARTING linemen were drafted late because 32 NFL scouting groups concluded they HAD no strengths. Sambrailo was the penultimate 2nd round pick because, when NFL teams in need of a starting OT went looking, EIGHT decided they had a better option than him, and exercised it. Seattle didn't even TRY to re-sign Okung, nor KC Stephenson. Last year, Evan Mathis was still sitting by his phone TWO WEEKS BEFORE OPENING DAY—then John Elway called to offer him $2M.

What "overlooked strengths" should Kubiak have played to there?

THAT'S what neutered our offense. For the rest, DT and Emmanuel get their share of balls—when our QBs have a chance to THROW them, and the perennial "we should throw deep to stretch the D" vs. "we should throw short to give our young QBs confidence and development" debate ignores the fact that 1) We've tried BOTH those things (and many others) but 2) our line doesn't give our QBs much time to throw ANYWHERE, let alone go through progressions to find a lone open receiver. Same goes for the arguments over which RBs should start; we've started virtually EVERY RB ON THE ROSTER FOR SIX YEARS to no effect: Because the holes aren't there, so they either go down in a heap or break multiple backfield tackles just to reach the line, leaving them on IR by midseason.

No loyal longtime Broncos fan will blame Elway for any of that, or for ANYTHING AT ALL: He's the Duke, and questioning his perfection is sacrilege. But someone's got to take the bullet for his mistakes (and he's human, so DOES make them) and the head coach would be designated target even he weren't a former backup QB easily dismissed as simply riding the coattails of Elway, Shanahan and now Wade to championships.

Have fun with that, Vance Joseph and Mike McCoy; I look forward to seeing which 3rd round OTs and 5th round Gs are next years "starters," and precisely how it's ya'lls fault when they and our offense fare no better than their MANY predecessors.

Cugel
01-21-2017, 10:16 PM
You know how my avatar goes from calm to rant? Well, Joel's goes from rant to nuclear bomb going off. Way to bury the needle dude!

The OL will be better because they won't be trying to pound square pegs into round holes, forcing everybody and everything into the Kubiak system. Well, the system didn't work and is now getting dismantled.

They have some OL who might do OK in a power running scheme. It's not as if they are totally devoid of talent (well Ty Sambrailo is, but watch for him to get cut this pre-season - that's what Brandon Stokely thinks will happen).

LT - Okung. Okung right now is "ironically the opposite of what he was in college" (Cecil Lammey), where he was known for his pass-protection skills. Now he's lost a step but has developed into a better run-blocker. He's a pretty strong dude. He might do better in a more traditional blocking scheme.

LG - Max Garcia. Garcia's big problem was getting out of synch with the rest of the line because he was too aggressive (again analysis by Brandon Stokely). He's a mauler who might be better in a more traditional scheme.

C - Max Paradis. Paradis excelled despite 2 bad hips he's had surgery on this off-season. If completely healthy he could be a total beast. Even 1/2 crippled he ranked as the top C in the entire NFL according to Football Outsiders.

RG - Hell if I know. We do know Michael Schofield is a backup, not a starter. The starter is not on the roster.

RT - ????? They will dump Donald Stephenson, and go out in FA and try and find a RT. I sure as hell hope we don't hear any crap about Ty Sambrailo playing RT. He can't play dead in a western.

Dapper Dan
01-21-2017, 11:15 PM
Hmm. Interesting.

Joel
01-22-2017, 01:25 AM
You know how my avatar goes from calm to rant? Well, Joel's goes from rant to nuclear bomb going off. Way to bury the needle dude!

The OL will be better because they won't be trying to pound square pegs into round holes, forcing everybody and everything into the Kubiak system. Well, the system didn't work and is now getting dismantled.

They have some OL who might do OK in a power running scheme. It's not as if they are totally devoid of talent (well Ty Sambrailo is, but watch for him to get cut this pre-season - that's what Brandon Stokely thinks will happen).
1) Fox ran a power scheme for FOUR YEARS and it STILL SUCKED: That's (supposedly) what Kubiak was hired to FIX, so how can it be his doing?
2) A favorite criticism of Kubiaks "scheme" is that "he" drafted low rated prospects like Sambrailo and Schofield precisely because they DO fit the ZBS, NOT power.


LT - Okung. Okung right now is "ironically the opposite of what he was in college" (Cecil Lammey), where he was known for his pass-protection skills. Now he's lost a step but has developed into a better run-blocker. He's a pretty strong dude. He might do better in a more traditional blocking scheme.
He might do better with Barone in Minnesota, too. Or maybe there's a reason why Seattle didn't even TRY to re-sign him.


LG - Max Garcia. Garcia's big problem was getting out of synch with the rest of the line because he was too aggressive (again analysis by Brandon Stokely). He's a mauler who might be better in a more traditional scheme.

C - Max Paradis. Paradis excelled despite 2 bad hips he's had surgery on this off-season. If completely healthy he could be a total beast. Even 1/2 crippled he ranked as the top C in the entire NFL according to Football Outsiders.
Garcia AND Paradis' big problem is that ANY kind of stunt or delay leaves them chasing their tails because they have poor balance and agility; a power scheme might minimize that (it certainly suits Garcia better) but there's a reason NEITHER went higher than the end of the 5th round. And Paradis has always been underpowered: If you want to see a "square peg in a round hole," put Matt Paradis in a power run offense.


RG - Hell if I know. We do know Michael Schofield is a backup, not a starter. The starter is not on the roster.
Yeah: Because "Kubiak" didn't think he was worth $6M on the heels of an All Pro season.


RT - ????? They will dump Donald Stephenson, and go out in FA and try and find a RT
in a dumpster, which is how they got Stephenson in the first place.


I sure as hell hope we don't hear any crap about Ty Sambrailo playing RT. He can't play dead in a western.
Thus no less than EIGHT OTs were drafted before him. There's only so much left at OT in the top of the 3rd round (basically what the next-to-last 2nd round pick is.)

Jaded
01-22-2017, 02:31 AM
This "Square Peg/Round Hole" nonsense is getting ridiculous, Kubiak's ZBS worked to perfection with Baltimore's 330 lb maulers.

You don't need tiny, talentless "fits the system" guy to run this system...you need someone to coach it.

Joel
01-22-2017, 04:16 AM
This "Square Peg/Round Hole" nonsense is getting ridiculous, Kubiak's ZBS worked to perfection with Baltimore's 330 lb maulers.

You don't need tiny, talentless "fits the system" guy to run this system...you need someone to coach it.
You also need PLAYERS who DO have talent: Kubiak and Dennison coached "Baltimore's 330 lb. maulers" to perfection after that teams already shaky line IMPLODED following their SB win, and did the same with the Texans line before that, and Denvers before THAT. Much of that credit probably goes to Dennison, who's had extensive experience coaching LINEMEN, while Kubiaks position coach experience is limited to "coaching up" QBs and RBs (at which he excels.)

Regardless, the point is WHOEVER built the 2014 Ravens, 2006-2013 Texans and 1995-2005 Broncos elite lines didn't use hasbeen FAs and neverwere draft picks.

2014 Ravens: A 1st rounder, a 2nd rounder and a pair of 3rd rounders
2006 Texans: Two 2nd rounders and two 3rd rounders*

There weren't many top picks in our post-Alex Gibbs lines under Kubiak and Dennison, but one big exception is Ryan Clady, a 1st rounder, instant starter and All Pro who NEVER allowed a SINGLE sack until the middle of his SECOND season—which was when McDumbass had come to town and replaced Dennison with Barone. Chris Myers wasn't a top draft pick, and sitting behind Nalen on our depth chart doomed him here, but when we released him Kubiak and Dennison brought him to Houston, where he made a couple Pro Bowls anchoring their elite line.

Remember, even before Elway brought back Kubiak and Dennison, he and Fox brought a retired Alex Gibbs in as a line consultant in 2013: Still didn't help. I genuinely believe our post-SB offenses taught Dennison that even the best "system" can't make subpar linemen truly great, and the era of Griese, Plummer and Schaub taught Kubiak the same about QBs: We didn't go looking for our QBotF in the 3rd or 4th round.

We kept looking for linemen there though, while the GM making those picks and signing those FA deals spent the big money and 1st round picks on defensive players. Well, we've got a great D, but my grandmother's a better blocker than most of our linemen "despite the notable handicap of being dead."

*Kubiaks original LT in Houston was a 7th rounder, but it was Ephraim Salaam, who "punched above his pick" and when he left for a season in Detroit Kubiak spent his very next 1st round pick on All Pro Duane Brown.

Dapper Dan
01-22-2017, 07:12 AM
This "Square Peg/Round Hole" nonsense is getting ridiculous, Kubiak's ZBS worked to perfection with Baltimore's 330 lb maulers.

You don't need tiny, talentless "fits the system" guy to run this system...you need someone to coach it.

Indeed.

silkamilkamonico
01-22-2017, 09:19 PM
You also need PLAYERS who DO have talent: Kubiak and Dennison coached "Baltimore's 330 lb. maulers" to perfection after that teams already shaky line IMPLODED following their SB win, and did the same with the Texans line before that, and Denvers before THAT. Much of that credit probably goes to Dennison, who's had extensive experience coaching LINEMEN, while Kubiaks position coach experience is limited to "coaching up" QBs and RBs (at which he excels.)

Regardless, the point is WHOEVER built the 2014 Ravens, 2006-2013 Texans and 1995-2005 Broncos elite lines didn't use hasbeen FAs and neverwere draft picks.

2014 Ravens: A 1st rounder, a 2nd rounder and a pair of 3rd rounders
2006 Texans: Two 2nd rounders and two 3rd rounders*

There weren't many top picks in our post-Alex Gibbs lines under Kubiak and Dennison, but one big exception is Ryan Clady, a 1st rounder, instant starter and All Pro who NEVER allowed a SINGLE sack until the middle of his SECOND season—which was when McDumbass had come to town and replaced Dennison with Barone. Chris Myers wasn't a top draft pick, and sitting behind Nalen on our depth chart doomed him here, but when we released him Kubiak and Dennison brought him to Houston, where he made a couple Pro Bowls anchoring their elite line.

Remember, even before Elway brought back Kubiak and Dennison, he and Fox brought a retired Alex Gibbs in as a line consultant in 2013: Still didn't help. I genuinely believe our post-SB offenses taught Dennison that even the best "system" can't make subpar linemen truly great, and the era of Griese, Plummer and Schaub taught Kubiak the same about QBs: We didn't go looking for our QBotF in the 3rd or 4th round.

We kept looking for linemen there though, while the GM making those picks and signing those FA deals spent the big money and 1st round picks on defensive players. Well, we've got a great D, but my grandmother's a better blocker than most of our linemen "despite the notable handicap of being dead."

*Kubiaks original LT in Houston was a 7th rounder, but it was Ephraim Salaam, who "punched above his pick" and when he left for a season in Detroit Kubiak spent his very next 1st round pick on All Pro Duane Brown.

Kubiak lost his touch in Denver. Clearly. ANd he leaves with the offense in an absolute dumpsterfire. Guy did nothing to better this organization. Denver will probably be good for 2+ wins without him even on the sideline making his dumbass calls.

ShaneFalco
01-22-2017, 09:28 PM
This "Square Peg/Round Hole" nonsense is getting ridiculous, Kubiak's ZBS worked to perfection with Baltimore's 330 lb maulers.

You don't need tiny, talentless "fits the system" guy to run this system...you need someone to coach it.

VJ knows all about putting pegs into hoes.

Joel
01-22-2017, 11:02 PM
Kubiak lost his touch in Denver. Clearly. ANd he leaves with the offense in an absolute dumpsterfire. Guy did nothing to better this organization. Denver will probably be good for 2+ wins without him even on the sideline making his dumbass calls.
And people say MY takes are hot.... :rolleyes:

7DnBrnc53
01-23-2017, 11:59 AM
And people say MY takes are hot.... :rolleyes:

Kubiak's play calls were as mind-numbingly stupid this past season as Haley's were for Pittsburgh last night. Is a QB sneak too advanced for these people?

Joel
01-23-2017, 05:25 PM
Kubiak's play calls were as mind-numbingly stupid this past season as Haley's were for Pittsburgh last night. Is a QB sneak too advanced for these people?
You can't QB sneak with NO line surge: That LOSES yards. It's also not a good idea when your starting QB's nursing a bad shoulder because he's hit too much.

Broncoknight30
01-23-2017, 05:39 PM
Kubiak's play calls were as mind-numbingly stupid this past season as Haley's were for Pittsburgh last night. Is a QB sneak too advanced for these people?

I agree with this pretty much. I have mentioned this before, and it still bothers me about the play calling this year.

Is it me, or did people expect to see a lot more bootleg keeper action with a more mobile QB than Manning? That is so vital for that infamous stretch run that creates those cut back lanes. To me the OL was just being asked to do things they simply were not suited to do. Okung, for example spent his whole career in Seattle where they ran a version of the stretch run. Pete Carroll is a west coast guy and he does run it.

It aggravated me to watch them NOT do it. They ran simple offenses with no dynamic qualities whatsoever. It seemed that they were unwilling to even try anything new.

They did not even seem to make an attempt to change things during the games when whatever they were doing was clearly not working.

It pisses me off thinking about it right now. I know I am being simplistic about it, but that is what I saw this year.

Hawgdriver
01-23-2017, 09:34 PM
Kubiak's play calls were as mind-numbingly stupid this past season as Haley's were for Pittsburgh last night. Is a QB sneak too advanced for these people?

Sometimes I prefer to have my mind numb. Not on offense. Other times.

Jaded
01-23-2017, 10:28 PM
Kubiak's play calls were as mind-numbingly stupid this past season as Haley's were for Pittsburgh last night. Is a QB sneak too advanced for these people?

What's mind-numbingly stupid is fans who think they have a ****ing clue about NFL playcalling. Haley and Kubiak have forgot my about football than we'll ever know.

Stay in your lane, big shifter, you're embarrassing yourself. Stick to X-Box.

Jaded
01-23-2017, 10:32 PM
Haley's is literally one of the best OC's on the planet. :rolleyes:

Jaded
01-23-2017, 10:37 PM
I agree with this pretty much. I have mentioned this before, and it still bothers me about the play calling this year.

Is it me, or did people expect to see a lot more bootleg keeper action with a more mobile QB than Manning? That is so vital for that infamous stretch run that creates those cut back lanes. To me the OL was just being asked to do things they simply were not suited to do. Okung, for example spent his whole career in Seattle where they ran a version of the stretch run. Pete Carroll is a west coast guy and he does run it.

It aggravated me to watch them NOT do it. They ran simple offenses with no dynamic qualities whatsoever. It seemed that they were unwilling to even try anything new.

They did not even seem to make an attempt to change things during the games when whatever they were doing was clearly not working.

It pisses me off thinking about it right now. I know I am being simplistic about it, but that is what I saw this year.

Fat, steamy load of good a boot does when defenses can stop the run with base defense, it's a playaction and teams had no reason to respect it.

7DnBrnc53
01-24-2017, 01:14 PM
What's mind-numbingly stupid is fans who think they have a ****ing clue about NFL playcalling. Haley and Kubiak have forgot my about football than we'll ever know.

Stay in your lane, big shifter, you're embarrassing yourself. Stick to X-Box.

For one, I don't play X-Box. And second, I can't criticize play calling? That's BS. Any fan should be allowed to.