Off Season Notes - 2017

[slim]

Worked with Manning, Joel said all along that that was a shit team that needed way more than a QB. Turns out we (Joel) didn't know how good the team actually was until they fixed the worlds worst QB situation.

Besides, it's even harder to find THAT QB when you're picking at the end of each round every season, you end up with Paxton Lynch and an otherwise contending team that doesn't have the luxury of waiting for Lynch to make the monumental leap from shit high school offense to NFL offense.

I'm glad you stopped at 2 paragraphs, Joeled

[NightTerror218]

They had the worst pass protection, but were top 10 in run blocking (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol2013) (adjusted for schedule.) That matters, a LOT, because the better the team runs the less a young QB must do, and the fewer pass rushers he has in his face when he tries. And, while (most) stats (usually) tell a lot of the story, none ever tells all of it: OUR pass protection was #1 in 2013, but no one who saw Seattle demolish us rushing just 4 guys through 5 "blockers" in the SB would believe that.

Mannings quick reads and releases made our 2013 line look much better on paper than it actually was, while Wilsons youth and limited receiving options made his look worse. Also, Okung was fresh off his sole Pro Bowl appearance in 2012, but Seattle came crashing back to earth when he missed the last half of the regular season due to injury. He was back for the playoffs, which made all the difference a quality LT can make for a QB.

Manning also made crappy lines look better.

Great QBs can hide line deficiencies.

You wont win this argument.

[Valar Morghulis]

Manning also made crappy lines look better. Great QBs can hide line deficiencies. You wont win this argument.

No but his next capitalized tome will put any one of replying, so technically, he wins

[Joel]

Yeah, a good QB instantly makes you a contender.
Are the Chargers contenders? Or even the Colts and Packers? Are their QBs just not as good as Flacco and Big Ben?

Or did Pitt build and Baltimore rebuild lines solid enough to reach a bunch of AFCCGs and SBs despite facing each others lethal pass rush twice a year? Baltimore's on the short list of teams who won road playoffs against NE* and Denver, and that's not because Flacco>Brady+Manning—an accomplishment that "instantly" prompted the QBs Are All crowd to declare Flacco "elite" by definition. Same old circular argument: You need a great QB to win SBs, because winning SBs make them great.

[Joel]

The sheer need to resort to a FA QB winning a SB for the FIRST (and ONLY) TIME IN FIFTY YEARS, and ignoring the reality that "he" did that thanks to a historically great defense when he could barely WALK, only underscores how weak the "QBs Are ALL" argument is.


Worked with Manning, Joel said all along that that was a shit team that needed way more than a QB. Turns out we (Joel) didn't know how good the team actually was until they fixed the worlds worst QB situation.
I also said Manning had "2 or MAYBE 3 good years before he'd retire or we'd all wish he had;" how was he doing by the middle of 2014? Answer: So well Elway made him take a $4M offseason paycut.Are you seriously going to sit there pretending he was the critical difference in our 2015 season? OSWEILER outperformed him. How much of our 2011 roster was left in 2015? Von, CHJr, DT and Colquitt: Out of 53 guys (can't count Clady, since he went down in preseason and missed every game.)

Our 2011 roster was NOT good enough to win a SB, nor even compete for one. And hoping a 1st ballot HoFer gets cut so you can win the resulting bidding war, then use his star power to lure FA defenders to build one of the best defenses EVER and win a SB before he collapses isn't a "blueprint," it's praying for a miracle. That's happened all of ONCE in HALF A CENTURY.


Besides, it's even harder to find THAT QB when you're picking at the end of each round every season, you end up with Paxton Lynch and an otherwise contending team that doesn't have the luxury of waiting for Lynch to make the monumental leap from shit high school offense to NFL offense.
So trade up; when you're that deep at virtually ALL other positions you can spare a few picks, especially for a franchise QB. Philly AND L.A. did it just last year, despite FAR less to bargain with than the reigning SB Champs.

Trading up at NEARLY HALF A DOZEN positions is MUCH harder. Your rookie QB savior'll just get ground into the dirt without protection, but a solid line means a running game still producing even if your current QB's garbage, which also means the whole defense won't lock in on your young franchise QB when you DO get one.


Manning also made crappy lines look better.
Yes, I said that—as far back as 2012 and 2013, when folks insisted our line was "great" because "look at our sack totals!" no lower than Indys with Manning.


Great QBs can hide line deficiencies.

You wont win this argument.
Fine, but let's stop pretending even the #1 overall pick is the 5-time All Pro Manning was when we signed him. Goff and Wentz aren't taking any veteran defenders to school, and top FAs aren't falling over each other to join the rosters last years #1 and #2 overall picks "instantly" made contenders.

Most likely, Goff and Wentz will quickly be declared "busts" because they spend their developmental years getting the crap stomped out of them for the same reason the Rams and Eagles had losing 2015s. That said, they probably have a better shot than most, because their teams trading up to get them, putting them in situations far less hopeless than most #1 and #2 overall picks face.

[Simple Jaded]

Tl;dr;yw

[Simple Jaded]

I'm glad you stopped at 2 paragraphs, Joeled

Two SHORT paragraphs.

[VonDoom]

Cameron Wolfe‏Verified account @CameronWolfe 14m14 minutes ago

Expect Denver to add at least one starting level OL & DL. Then obviously they'll wait until Dallas makes a decision on Romo for that domino.

Cameron Wolfe‏Verified account @CameronWolfe 8m8 minutes ago

It's not a big need, but from what I've heard #Broncos may draft a CB fairly high. DEN views it as a top 3 position of importance.

Cameron Wolfe‏Verified account @CameronWolfe 4m4 minutes ago

Sly Williams & Kayvon Webster are likely to sign elsewhere unless their market isn't as fruitful as they expect.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Kayvan could start on the outside for most teams.

[Hawgdriver]

Kayvan could start on the outside for most teams.

Kayvon is a legit #3 CB in the league, maybe even a 80% snap #2. And a special teams assassin. We've kept him hidden pretty well, we'll see if anyone properly values him and nabs him. Oh, and a MF'ing Denver Broncos world champ.

[VonDoom]

TMZ has a video of Demaryius Thomas at a bar saying "F**k Tom Brady." It's the offseason for sure:

http://www.milehighreport.com/2017/3/6/14830434/demaryius-thomas-says-f-k-tom-brady

[Hawgdriver]

Fytb!

[PatriotsGuy]

TMZ has a video of Demaryius Thomas at a bar saying "F**k Tom Brady." It's the offseason for sure:

http://www.milehighreport.com/2017/3/6/14830434/demaryius-thomas-says-f-k-tom-brady


He seems quite drunk

[slim]

fytb!

#ftb

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 19m

Exclusive: #Broncos' Webster, Williams still hope to hear from Denver as free agency prepares to open @DenverChannel http://bit.ly/2mPgVsS

[VonDoom]

Mike Klis‏Verified account @MikeKlis 57m57 minutes ago

Broncos, Tampa Bay are teams hot on DT/DE Chris Baker, per source. Jacksonville in play for DL Calais Campbell. #9sports

--------------------------

I'm posting this here because it's Bronco related, but I'm also putting it in the free agent thread. A lot will be happening in the next few days, so come check that out for any updates. Of course, if the Broncos sign anyone, we'll create new threads for that stuff.

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php/606020-2017-Free-Agency-mega-thread/

[7DnBrnc53]

Broncos, Tampa Bay are teams hot on DT/DE Chris Baker, per source.

It looks like Baker could come back to where he started his career (in Denver with McStupid).


Brady and wilson have been great with crap line.

You can get a great qb before you build your line. They are harder to get.

In 2013, Brady had a crap line, and wasn't really great. They got to the AFC Championship Game on luck like the Pats most often have the past 15 years. They should have lost to Cleveland, Denver, NO, and the Jets. Also, Miami had a 17-0 lead in Foxboro that year before the overrated Chokehill pooped his pants and they lost.

Also, that same year, Wilson had a better version of Okung than we had, plus G James Carpenter and C Max Unger (one of the best in the league).

And, as far as the last line is concerned, I think that Couch and David Carr would like to have a word with you. They are proof that you can't get the QB first. Brady came up in New England with no pressure on him and with a better line than those two ever had. Put Brady in Couch's shoes, and he is a flop.

[NightTerror218]

It looks like Baker could come back to where he started his career (in Denver with McStupid).



In 2013, Brady had a crap line, and wasn't really great. They got to the AFC Championship Game on luck like the Pats most often have the past 15 years. They should have lost to Cleveland, Denver, NO, and the Jets. Also, Miami had a 17-0 lead in Foxboro that year before the overrated Chokehill pooped his pants and they lost.

Also, that same year, Wilson had a better version of Okung than we had, plus G James Carpenter and C Max Unger (one of the best in the league).

And, as far as the last line is concerned, I think that Couch and David Carr would like to have a word with you. They are proof that you can't get the QB first. Brady came up in New England with no pressure on him and with a better line than those two ever had. Put Brady in Couch's shoes, and he is a flop.

Manning and luck say i dare you to pass up on me even though you have a crappy line.

Seattle has never had a good pass blocking line. Good run blockers but line is even worse now.

Pats line is usually always good but gets worse with injuries.

If you have a good line and no QB then you are the browns.

[VonDoom]

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 6m6 minutes ago

#Broncos expected to place second-round tenders on restricted free agents Todd Davis and Brandon McManus. @DenverChannel

------------------------

That's $2.746 million a piece for those tenders, FYI

[Joel]

Manning and luck say i dare you to pass up on me even though you have a crappy line.
The Colts spent the #19 overall pick on LT Tarik Glenn the year BEFORE drafting Manning #1 overall; the year before that they signed Bears G Jay Leuwenberg and moved him to C, as well as signing Packers G Tony Mandarich. Then the year they too Manning they also took LG Steve McKinney in the 4th.

That is: Indy DID rebuild it's line before drafting Manning. Not before drafting Luck, no, but have you looked at Andrew Lucks playoff history (or body) lately? Can't look at his playoff history the last two years, of course: THERE ISN'T ANY!


Seattle has never had a good pass blocking line. Good run blockers but line is even worse now.
Ever heard countless NFL commentators (especially former players) say "a good running game is a young QBs best friend"?


Pats line is usually always good but gets worse with injuries.
"Usually always" eh? With the notable exceptions of Vollmer and Solder (two studly high picks they've no cause to replace) NE* rebuilt it's whole line in 2014: They year they won the SB for the first time in a DECADE. But that's probably just a coincidence, right? ;)


If you have a good line and no QB then you are the browns.
Interesting way to look at it, since the Browns spending SO MANY of their first picks on QB saviors is how they wound up with this (http://dailysnark.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Screen-Shot-2016-03-25-at-10.43.23-PM.png). Or if you want JUST their 1st round QB saviors, try this
10292
Except you'll have to add Manziel, the guy these guys wore those jerseys to the 2014 NFL draft to remind their GM to STOP doing stupid carp.

[dogfish]

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 6m6 minutes ago

#Broncos expected to place second-round tenders on restricted free agents Todd Davis and Brandon McManus. @DenverChannel

------------------------

That's $2.746 million a piece for those tenders, FYI

looks like elway learned a hard lesson last off-season with the CJ anderson tender fiasco. . .

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Ian Rapoport‏Verified account @RapSheet 4m

The Broncos put a 2nd round tender on kicker Brandon McManus, source said. A hefty price.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 3h

ICYMI: #Broncos Joseph tells @DenverChannel he sees "race" for offensive linemen as free agency opens. http://bit.ly/2n7ZrUN

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 2m

As expected, #Broncos place second-round tenders on restricted free agents Brandon McManus and Todd Davis. @DenverChannel

[CoachChaz]

Subtract about 5 million from our cap space

[VonDoom]

Subtract about 5 million from our cap space

Yep. Plus these EFRA:

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 13m13 minutes ago

#Broncos issue exclusive rights tenders to Matt Paradis, Z. Anderson, Barrett, Bibbs, Ferentz, Kreiter, Taylor, Fowler ... @DenverChannel

... and the rookie pool, and you're probably talking about $26-27 million to work with. Not a tremendous amount, unless we do some cap calisthenics.

[underrated29]

Yep. Plus these EFRA:

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 13m13 minutes ago

#Broncos issue exclusive rights tenders to Matt Paradis, Z. Anderson, Barrett, Bibbs, Ferentz, Kreiter, Taylor, Fowler ... @DenverChannel

... and the rookie pool, and you're probably talking about $26-27 million to work with. Not a tremendous amount, unless we do some cap calisthenics.




Kapri Bibbs!

[VonDoom]

James Palmer:

Russell Okung and the #Broncos are still talking about a possible return.

----------------

Okung can't talk to anyone else until Thursday since he has no agent

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 4m

A player source confirms #Broncos Elway met with @DeMarcusWare .. Just touching base to see what would take to re-sign him. @DenverChannel

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 51m

#Broncos have interest in adding a change of pace back... Woodhead fits that bill.. And had 80 catches for McCoy a few years ago

Jackson Hittner‏ @jacksonhittner

@TroyRenck Woodhead to Denver?

[Rick]

Woodhead would be perfect.

I doubt we take McCaffery in the first and we would probably have to to take him. Woodhead would address that position need, at least for now.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Mike Klis‏Verified account @MikeKlis 3h

Per player source, Broncos GM John Elway met with OLB DeMarcus Ware today. It appears Ware will test the market. DEN will monitor. #9sports

[Poet]

DeMarcus Ware is a player that I absolutely love --I rooted for him even when he was a friggen Cowboy-- but I don't think he's playing for us next year.

But if he comes back I'm going to get hype as ****.

[Cugel]

According to Mike Klis on Brandon Stokely's radio show, the Broncos want to sign a LT and RG, and NT. Chris Baker NT from the Redskins is the leading candidate to replace Sylvester Williams.


Expected to provide Chris Baker with an offer by Tuesday, the Redskins may now be conceding the defensive end is going to move on in free agency. (https://www.profootballrumors.com/2017/03/redskins-rumors-baker-poe-church)Washington’s top defensive lineman over the past two seasons is “highly likely” to depart the nation’s capital, Jason La Canfora of CBSSports.com reports (on Twitter). The Broncos and Buccaneers are coveting Baker.

However, the Redskins are going to be on the hunt for defensive linemen. One name La Canfora is connecting the team is Dontari Poe (Twitter link). The five-year Chiefs starter reportedly hasn’t seen his market take off during his first free agency period, with Jason Cole of Bleacher Report hearing the mammoth defender could take a one-year contract with a team that would let him rush quarterbacks more.

[Cugel]

Scratch another T off the Broncos wish list. Ravens RT Ricky Wagner is set to get around $11-12M a season - and he's a RIGHT tackle! Unheard of, but that's 2017 NFL. Teams with close to $100 M under the cap MUST spend up to the NFL minimum - that's the new CBA rule. So now teams with bundles of cash are looking around in FA thinking "where can we spend some money? Ah! Ricky Wagner is a pretty good RT. Let's pay him $12M a year! Why not? We've got the money and we have to spend it."


Mike Garafolo of NFL Media mentioned on “Good Morning Football” Tuesday that free agent Ricky Wagner is “about to blow the lid off the right tackle market” and added that the Vikings are a team to keep an eye on for him.

According to Garafolo, the Vikings, Lions, Bears and Texans are among the teams in the mix for Wagner.

Technically, Lane Johnson of the Eagles is the highest-paid right tackle in the NFL at $11.252 million per year. However, the Eagles admitted that they agreed to pay him that much because they expect him to move to left tackle at some point.

[MOtorboat]

If that's true, Denver will not be signing a top left tackle.

[Poet]

There will be one around 20. That's probably the first round pick.

[Joel]

There will be one around 20. That's probably the first round pick.
Everyone seems to agree this years OT class sucks, and the next time Elway spends a 1st round pick on an OT will be the first. Hence I was really hoping we could get at least one solid FA OT and draft a solid G somewhere before round 5 (or even 4,) because there's usually decent INTERIOR line talent there (just: NOT OTs.)

Oh, well.... :(

[Poet]

Well, everyone seems to agree this years OT class sucks, and the next time Elway spends a 1st round pick on an OT will be the first.

Well, I know the class isn't well thought of, so I get that. However, closer to draft time we often see new takes on players. The combine is a part of that as well, so I remain optimistic in the sense that when the players' 'chances' (not able to find a better way to phrase it) are fully delved into we'll see some of them rise atop the board.

It also is noteworthy that while the top elite LT talent might not be supreme, that does not mean that the next level of talent isn't there.

[CoachChaz]

Considering our past 2nd round failures, I'd be asking Cleveland and SF if they'd be interested in a 2nd round pick for their current LT. Cant hurt.

[Cugel]

Everyone seems to agree this years OT class sucks, and the next time Elway spends a 1st round pick on an OT will be the first. Hence I was really hoping we could get at least one solid FA OT and draft a solid G somewhere before round 5 (or even 4,) because there's usually decent INTERIOR line talent there (just: NOT OTs.)

Oh, well.... :(

The word from 9News Broncos Insider Mike Klis on 104.3 the Fan is that the Broncos will target a LT and RG in FA.

In inverse order of priority and likelihood:

#1 - Re-sign Russell Okung to a more cap friendly deal. John Elway has reached out to Okung, but reportedly, Okung wants to test FA where 4 teams (Vikings, Jets, Panthers, among others) are likely bidders for him. Because he doesn't have an agent, but represents himself, no teams can talk with him prior to the official start of FA on Thursday.


Okung, who represents himself in negotiations, is arguably the No. 2 tackle on the open market, second to only Cincinnati's Andrew Whitworth. As such, Okung is widely expected to command $10 to $12 million annually (http://den.247sports.com/Bolt/Report-Okung-Broncos-still-discussing-possible-return-51654546).

He won't get that sort of cash from the Broncos, who declined Okung's 2017 option, making him an unrestricted free agent. The team took themselves off the hook for the remainder of his four-year, $48 million contract, which included $21 million in guarantees.

The Denver Post reports Okung is first testing his worth, to see if he can't cash out elsewhere, before deciding on a reunion.

If 4 teams are bidding for Okung, one of them will pay him. He's gone.

#2 - Whitworth. Whitworth reportedly wants to return to the Bengals to finish out his career. But, at $12M a year the 37 year old LT would be the top FA on the market and teams with $60M or more that they have to spend in FA may bid up his services even more. Broncos are likely priced out of his market by more cash rich teams.

#3 - From here the FA LT market really falls off. If the Broncos aren't really interested in signing a RT like the Lions Reilly Reiff and moving him to LT, then their options are severely limited, and not very good either. Perhaps Jacksonville's Kelvin Beachum becomes the top available LT FA.

That means he will get something around what Okung will get -- i.e. close to $12 M a year. He's not an upgrade on Okung, but given the almost total lack of talent in both FA and the draft at LT, he's the best available.

With the Broncos trying to sign Tony Romo and committing $12-14M a year to him they may be priced out of the FA LT market altogether. Something I was afraid of from the beginning.

They could wait a bit and pick up a short term one-year deal on a guy who is currently a backup, but who they feel might be undervalued. They did that last year, paying Okung and Stephenson who were not wanted by their teams, but it didn't work out. Now they may be forced to reach for a warm body, because it doesn't appear that there's a LT prospect on the current roster.

[Cugel]

Considering our past 2nd round failures, I'd be asking Cleveland and SF if they'd be interested in a 2nd round pick for their current LT. Cant hurt.

Their teams wouldn't even take first round picks for Joe Thomas or Joe Staley. Two years ago the Broncos weren't interested in a first round pick+ Shaqil Barrett for Thomas. There's absolutely no rumor about Joe Thomas being traded right now. None. And there's almost always some hint that a team would be willing to trade a guy.

Neither is on the trade market. It would take multiple first round picks to even interest them at all in Cleveland, and SF has zero incentive to trade one of the few players they have who is any good.

These deals are simply not happening. "No chance" according to Mike Klis. The thought I had was get Reilly Reiff and move him to LT where he used to play before the Lions moved him to RT. But, that doesn't seem to appeal to the Broncos. Joseph wants a LT, not a converted RT. Can't blame him, but there aren't any really good options after Okung leaves town.

[Joel]

Well, I know the class isn't well thought of, so I get that. However, closer to draft time we often see new takes on players. The combine is a part of that as well, so I remain optimistic in the sense that when the players' 'chances' (not able to find a better way to phrase it) are fully delved into we'll see some of them rise atop the board.
Closer to draft time we also often see a lot of reaches as GMs realize their desperate needs won't be available at their turn yet remain no less desperate needs.


It also is noteworthy that while the top elite LT talent might not be supreme, that does not mean that the next level of talent isn't there.
Been there, done that, MANY times: Overall #41 was the pick of the litter, and he's playing GUARD for someone else now. In line with what I said earlier about "if the best FA we can get is Chris Clark, I WOULD rather pay Chris Clark money for that crap than Joe Thomas money," if the Best Available Tackle's a second tier player, that's NOT the kind of OT I keep saying we should be spending 1st rounders on: It's the kind of OT I want to AVOID by spending 1st rounders.

In turn in line with THAT: Drafting a second tier OT early because he's the best of a bad group and we're desperate is pretty much the exact opposite of the much celebrated BPA philosophy.

[Cugel]

Well, I know the class isn't well thought of, so I get that. However, closer to draft time we often see new takes on players. The combine is a part of that as well, so I remain optimistic in the sense that when the players' 'chances' (not able to find a better way to phrase it) are fully delved into we'll see some of them rise atop the board.

It also is noteworthy that while the top elite LT talent might not be supreme, that does not mean that the next level of talent isn't there.

Well, the Broncos are virtually certain to try and draft an OL in the 2nd or 3rd round, maybe 2. But, no rookie in this draft class, not even the top 2 or 3 guys, is going to come in and start at OT and face down Justin Houston or Joey Bosa in his first season. That's too much to ask.

The worst case scenario is that the Broncos can't find a T in FA, Russell Okung is gone and they are bringing Stephenson back to start at RT, and instead of going best player available in the draft, the team is forced to draft a T, perhaps even moving up for one because they don't have anybody.

My guess is that they still don't do that and are forced to get by with smoke and mirrors again with some re-tread who will become a June cap casualty. There are always warm bodies. They will sign somebody.

It just will be a one-year rental and next year in FA they are faced with the problem of rebuilding their OL once again. For the 4th straight year. This is just an endless open sore on the team that never seems to get fixed!

[Joel]

The word from 9News Broncos Insider Mike Klis on 104.3 the Fan is that the Broncos will target a LT and RG in FA.

In inverse order of priority and likelihood:

#1 - Re-sign Russell Okung to a more cap friendly deal. John Elway has reached out to Okung, but reportedly, Okung wants to test FA where 4 teams (Vikings, Jets, Panthers, among others) are likely bidders for him. Because he doesn't have an agent, but represents himself, no teams can talk with him prior to the official start of FA on Thursday.


If 4 teams are bidding for Okung, one of them will pay him. He's gone.

#2 - Whitworth. Whitworth reportedly wants to return to the Bengals to finish out his career. But, at $12M a year the 37 year old LT would be the top FA on the market and teams with $60M or more that they have to spend in FA may bid up his services even more. Broncos are likely priced out of his market by more cash rich teams.

#3 - From here the FA LT market really falls off. If the Broncos aren't really interested in signing a RT like the Lions Reilly Reiff and moving him to LT, then their options are severely limited, and not very good either. Perhaps Jacksonville's Kelvin Beachum becomes the top available LT FA.

That means he will get something around what Okung will get -- i.e. close to $12 M a year. He's not an upgrade on Okung, but given the almost total lack of talent in both FA and the draft at LT, he's the best available.

With the Broncos trying to sign Tony Romo and committing $12-14M a year to him they may be priced out of the FA LT market altogether. Something I was afraid of from the beginning.

They could wait a bit and pick up a short term one-year deal on a guy who is currently a backup, but who they feel might be undervalued. They did that last year, paying Okung and Stephenson who were not wanted by their teams, but it didn't work out. Now they may be forced to reach for a warm body, because it doesn't appear that there's a LT prospect on the current roster.
Until we know who will/not be released, there's little point in speculating on whom we can/not make offers to land. If Cincy re-signs Whitworth but Minny releases Matt Kalil, who's the top FA OT then? I'm not saying the Vikings WILL cut a top LT in his prime when their young franchise QB just lost a whole season to a shredded knee, I'm just saying: We don't know who's available until we know who's available.

Okung wasn't supposed to be available—but he is; pretty much everyone would rather have Kalil if BOTH are available though. Except, according to your sources, apparently the Vikings; if they want to take Okung and let us have Kalil, that's hunky dorry with me. :)

[Cugel]

Until we know who will/not be released, there's little point in speculating on whom we can/not make offers to land. If Cincy re-signs Whitworth but Minny releases Matt Kalil, who's the top FA OT then? I'm not saying the Vikings WILL cut a top LT in his prime when their young franchise QB just lost a whole season to a shredded knee, I'm just saying: We don't know who's available until we know who's available.

Okung wasn't supposed to be available—but he is; pretty much everyone would rather have Kalil if BOTH are available though. Except, according to your sources, apparently the Vikings; if they want to take Okung and let us have Kalil, that's hunky dorry with me. :)

Like you, I'd be perfectly happy upgrading from Okung to Kalil. The problem is "at what price?" If Russell Okung gets $11M or $12 M a year (pretty much guaranteed with 4 teams sniffing around him), then what will Kalil get?

We're stuck in the scenario I feared with a bunch of teams desperate for a LT, and who have $60 M a year in cap space or more, just saying "well, if it takes $13M a year to land Kalil, then why not? We have to spend the money anyway!"

Aside from the 49ers and Browns (both of whom have elite LTs) the next most cap room is:

Jacksonville - $74M
Tampa - $68M
Titans - $64M
Colts - $58M
Bears $55M
Pats - $53
Raiders - $45M
Bengals- $41M
Packers - $39M
Dolphins - $38M
Jets - $37M
Broncos - $36M (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/)

We know the Pats aren't interested. I don't know about all these other teams though. The problem is that the Broncos are committing $12-14M to Tony Romo and that limits their ability to go out and get a high priced FA LT even if they were inclined to spend $11 or $12M a year for a guy. Which if they were willing to do that they'd probably keep Okung.

Of course, Kalil isn't available right now, so that's mere speculation until we get solid evidence that the Vikings really ARE landing Okung. That could be mere speculation on their part. After all, the Jets could land Okung, and then what are the Vikings going to do with Kalil? Nothing.

[CoachChaz]

Their teams wouldn't even take first round picks for Joe Thomas or Joe Staley. Two years ago the Broncos weren't interested in a first round pick+ Shaqil Barrett for Thomas. There's absolutely no rumor about Joe Thomas being traded right now. None. And there's almost always some hint that a team would be willing to trade a guy.

Neither is on the trade market. It would take multiple first round picks to even interest them at all in Cleveland, and SF has zero incentive to trade one of the few players they have who is any good.

These deals are simply not happening. "No chance" according to Mike Klis. The thought I had was get Reilly Reiff and move him to LT where he used to play before the Lions moved him to RT. But, that doesn't seem to appeal to the Broncos. Joseph wants a LT, not a converted RT. Can't blame him, but there aren't any really good options after Okung leaves town.

I'm guessing you missed the part where I said this was what I would do. A tongue in cheek jab at Elway's 2nd round failures, combined with his inability to ever acquire quality OL, combined with past banter of trading for Thomas.

[Poet]

Well, the Broncos are virtually certain to try and draft an OL in the 2nd or 3rd round, maybe 2. But, no rookie in this draft class, not even the top 2 or 3 guys, is going to come in and start at OT and face down Justin Houston or Joey Bosa in his first season. That's too much to ask.

The worst case scenario is that the Broncos can't find a T in FA, Russell Okung is gone and they are bringing Stephenson back to start at RT, and instead of going best player available in the draft, the team is forced to draft a T, perhaps even moving up for one because they don't have anybody.

My guess is that they still don't do that and are forced to get by with smoke and mirrors again with some re-tread who will become a June cap casualty. There are always warm bodies. They will sign somebody.

It just will be a one-year rental and next year in FA they are faced with the problem of rebuilding their OL once again. For the 4th straight year. This is just an endless open sore on the team that never seems to get fixed!

You learn by doing, baby. They rebuilt the line last year. The coaches weren't good enough to get anything out of the guys they picked up. A new LT, veteran starter, and RT, a veteran starter, are your starting bookends.

It is what it is, man.

[Cugel]

You learn by doing, baby. They rebuilt the line last year. The coaches weren't good enough to get anything out of the guys they picked up. A new LT, veteran starter, and RT, a veteran starter, are your starting bookends.

It is what it is, man.

You got that right, man! It really "is what it is". Bad. Real Bad.

Missing from most fans assessments of these scenarios is that the Broncos don't even seem to be thinking of adding a RT (that could change of course). That means the HORRIBLE Donald Stephenson will be coming back, or else Ty Sambrailo, whose injuries have kept him from lifting and getting as strong as he needs to be to play T in the NFL, or else Michael Schofield.

Do we really need to talk about what a total cluster bomb Michael Schofield was at T? He utterly sucked. He's a G. He doesn't have the athleticism to play T in the NFL. Kalil Mack, Joey Bosa, Justin Houston will slap him around and eat his lunch, just like they did do when they faced him last at RT.

I was certainly hoping going into the FA period that the Broncos would re-sign Russell Okung, and find an upgrade from Stephenson at RT and Schofield at RG. Now it looks like they will be lucky to find a FA LT at all, and are set on bringing back Stephenson at RT (competing with scrubs like Sambrailo and Schofield).

It's hard to see the OL getting significantly better with those guys and it could easily be worse. Okung was probably an average LT. Not great, but not terra-bad either - as the interest in him in FA proves.

Four teams wouldn't compete to sign him $12 M a year if he utterly sucked like some fans seem to think.

If I were John Elway I'd be thinking right about now, that despite telling Russell Okung that they weren't picking up his option, if they can't find anybody before Thursday, I'd call back Okung and tell him they changed their minds and are picking up his deal. At $12M per year.

Overpaid? Sure. But, they gotta start somebody at LT and there are no better options.

[Poet]

You got that right, man! It really "is what it is". Bad. Real Bad.

Missing from most fans assessments of these scenarios is that the Broncos don't even seem to be thinking of adding a RT (that could change of course). That means the HORRIBLE Donald Stephenson will be coming back, or else Ty Sambrailo, whose injuries have kept him from lifting and getting as strong as he needs to be to play T in the NFL, or else Michael Schofield.

Do we really need to talk about what a total cluster bomb Michael Schofield was at T? He utterly sucked. He's a G. He doesn't have the athleticism to play T in the NFL. Kalil Mack, Joey Bosa, Justin Houston will slap him around and eat his lunch, just like they did do when they faced him last at RT.

I was certainly hoping going into the FA period that the Broncos would re-sign Russell Okung, and find an upgrade from Stephenson at RT and Schofield at RG. Now it looks like they will be lucky to find a FA LT at all, and are set on bringing back Stephenson at RT (competing with scrubs like Sambrailo and Schofield).

http://www.si.com/2017-nfl-draft-rankings-offensive-tackle

There isn't a lot of elite talent at tackle.

So what? You don't have to have elite talent in the NFL to succeed - you can't have it at every position, either.

If you look at the offseason in totality, there are numerous ways to get most of what you need. It's not as easy as just going 'sign elite player here, draft elite player there, trade for elite player' and being done with it. Sometimes you have to settle for solid or average players.

[CoachChaz]

http://www.si.com/2017-nfl-draft-rankings-offensive-tackle

There isn't a lot of elite talent at tackle.

So what? You don't have to have elite talent in the NFL to succeed - you can't have it at every position, either.

If you look at the offseason in totality, there are numerous ways to get most of what you need. It's not as easy as just going 'sign elite player here, draft elite player there, trade for elite player' and being done with it. Sometimes you have to settle for solid or average players.

As proof...how many of these "elite" LT's won a playoff game this year?

Tyron Smith, Joe Thomas, Joe Staley, Teron Armstead, Andre Whitworth, Trent Williams, Taylor Lewan

In fact, only 6 of the top PFF OL played deep into the playoffs this year and only one of those was a LT.

[Poet]

As proof...how many of these "elite" LT's won a playoff game this year?

Tyron Smith, Joe Thomas, Joe Staley, Teron Armstead, Andre Whitworth, Trent Williams, Taylor Lewan

In fact, only 6 of the top PFF OL played deep into the playoffs this year and only one of those was a LT.

The best line in the league didn't make the playoffs -- Tennessee was close, but as good as they were, not good enough.

People have this weird fetish that you can only be good if you are drafted high, or that all great teams have a great line.

Then if you that they then act like your position is that the line doesn't matter at all. It's absurd.

[Cugel]

I'm guessing you missed the part where I said this was what I would do. A tongue in cheek jab at Elway's 2nd round failures, combined with his inability to ever acquire quality OL, combined with past banter of trading for Thomas.

OK. I get it now. Of course, the trade talks were more than rumors a couple of year ago. But, the Browns have since fired their management and the new team isn't desperate enough to part with their best player. Not even for what they demanded when he had two more good years left in him - a 1st round pick + a player like Shaqil Barrett. The Broncos refused, and the Browns then said "OK, a first round pick, plus your second round pick". Elway declined, and that was that. Now he's two years older.

Your point about Elway's inability to draft OL stands as proven of course. Ty Sambrailo is Exhibit "A".

[Cugel]

http://www.si.com/2017-nfl-draft-rankings-offensive-tackle

There isn't a lot of elite talent at tackle.

So what? You don't have to have elite talent in the NFL to succeed - you can't have it at every position, either.

If you look at the offseason in totality, there are numerous ways to get most of what you need. It's not as easy as just going 'sign elite player here, draft elite player there, trade for elite player' and being done with it. Sometimes you have to settle for solid or average players.

Oh, we're way past "solid or average players", we're now into delving in the bargain basement bin for some pants that fit. They might be green but you gotta wear pants cause you can't walk around all day in your boxers!

The Broncos need to find a LT. The guy they find will not be an upgrade on Russell Okung, and at this point it doesn't even look like they can find anyone as good who doesn't cost even MORE $.

[Poet]

Oh, we're way past "solid or average players", we're now into delving in the bargain basement bin for some pants that fit. They might be green but you gotta wear pants cause you can't walk around all day in your boxers!

The Broncos need to find a LT. The guy they find will not be an upgrade on Russell Okung, and at this point it doesn't even look like they can find anyone as good who doesn't cost even MORE $.

Okung played at a below average level last year. You can find rookies who will play like that, albeit they will of course be younger and cheaper. Or, you can go out, spend a little more, and get a much better player. I'm sorry that I don't find that to be some type of awful existential offensive line crisis that cripples us forever and forever.

[Cugel]

As proof...how many of these "elite" LT's won a playoff game this year?

Tyron Smith, Joe Thomas, Joe Staley, Teron Armstead, Andre Whitworth, Trent Williams, Taylor Lewan

In fact, only 6 of the top PFF OL played deep into the playoffs this year and only one of those was a LT.

Nobody is talking about "elite" or "top tier" LTs. The FA market this year is "overpay hugely for an average guy. Pay a TON for a guy who might possibly be elite."

After all if Whitworth gets $12M a year does that really make sense for a 37 year old LT? Is he still going to be playing at 38 and 39? And he's the "top FA LT"? Just because teams are desperately overpaying for mediocre players doesn't make said players "elite."

Hell, Jacksonville gave Zane Beadles $6M a year to go there. Was he worth that? NO. But he got it anyway. Now they released him. Now he's on the 49ers.

[CoachChaz]

I'm in the draft Bolles camp.

[Poet]

Cugel, the guy has been a top five LT for almost half a decade. I'm just saying, man.


Let's say we overpay for a LT. And the LT is above average. Slightly overpaying for a competent LT isn't the worst thing in the world.

Or, like some rumor, we resign Okung for cheaper because...no one wants him.

Worse things have happen. You're hyperfocusing on one part of the team in FA and acting like we're doomed. DOoOOOOoOmed.

[Cugel]

Okung played at a below average level last year. You can find rookies who will play like that, albeit they will of course be younger and cheaper. Or, you can go out, spend a little more, and get a much better player. I'm sorry that I don't find that to be some type of awful existential offensive line crisis that cripples us forever and forever.

"Forever and forever?" Huh? :confused:

We're talking about this year only for the OL, which sucked horribly last year and had all the fans saying "the Broncos desperately need to replace these stiffs!" And now it looks like the OL will be:

LT - Either some FA scraps, or else a raw rookie T in what appears to be the WORST LT draft class in 2 decades - according to NFL experts who know. According to guys like Brandon Stokely, and Polumbus, "I wouldn't put any faith in a rookie starting at LT in this league."

LG - Max Garcia. Garcia was wildly inconsistent, but they hope to coach him up to be better in his second season of starting. Result: Who knows?

C: Matt Paradis: Coming off two hip surgeries, he won't be completely healthy until August. If healthy, he's the one bright light on the OL. Solid player.

RG: FA - maybe TJ Lang? Some other G? This is another priority signing. And the one more likely to be an upgrade over Schofield.

RT: Stephenson, Schofield, Sambrailo. Suck, worse, and not-on-the-roster-by-September.

[BeefStew25]

Sombrero has been a massive flop right?

[Buff]

Sombrero has been a massive flop right?

Can't stay healthy and can't play tackle.

[BeefStew25]

Can't stay healthy and can't play tackle.

What about the McGovern dude

[LTC Pain]

I'm in the draft Bolles camp.

I'm with you coach. High motor, good feet and plays with a nasty-ass attitude. In one of his Combine interviews he said he wanted to "drive them into the dirt" ��

[Buff]

What about the McGovern dude

I think he could probably lift a bus, but not sure if he can pass block.

[BeefStew25]

We need some hand in the dirt guys

[NightTerror218]

I am thinking colts giants rams vikings and carolina look at LT. Cinci may also if their entire left side of line leaves. With only 3 possible LT options i think they will all be taken with teams reaching.

[Simple Jaded]

Cugel, the guy has been a top five LT for almost half a decade. I'm just saying, man.


Let's say we overpay for a LT. And the LT is above average. Slightly overpaying for a competent LT isn't the worst thing in the world.

Or, like some rumor, we resign Okung for cheaper because...no one wants him.

Worse things have happen. You're hyperfocusing on one part of the team in FA and acting like we're doomed. DOoOOOOoOmed.

NmZRDUO1wGQ

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Sombrero has been a massive flop right?

Sombrero is a fitting nickname for a matador.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 2h

#Broncos eye Romo, but prepared to add Olinemen over next few days. @DenverChannel http://bit.ly/2n0zQRM

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 17m

When teams ran on #Broncos, muted impact of @Millerlite40 and No Fly Zone. Denver allowed 47 more yards per gm on ground last year than '15

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 20m

Multiple #Broncos players told me they want Campbell. Reason is simple: Improve run D to force teams to pass into No Fly Zone @DenverChannel

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 23m

Know this. #Broncos aren't waiting around on Romo. They are moving forward with free agent plans. Have multiple needs.

Mike Klis‏Verified account @MikeKlis 31m

Calais Campbell and his wife are currently deciding between Jacksonville and Denver. #9sports

Mike Klis‏Verified account @MikeKlis 32m

Broncos didn't get in on Calais Campbell until last night, per source. By then he was close to deal with JAX, but nothing final. #9sports

[Hawgdriver]

Please please please.

Campbell > Romo...

[Rick]

Yes, I would prefer OL and DL over Romo as well.

I won't kick the dog if we get Romo but I think we can be a better team overall if we fix the lines.

[Davii]

Please please please.

Campbell > Romo...

We could do both. No matter what we do at QB though we need help in the trenches on both sides of the ball.

[Rick]

If we want at least 2 new starting OL and possibly 2 new starting DL, we can't afford Romo. Something will have to give.

[CoachChaz]

If we want at least 2 new starting OL and possibly 2 new starting DL, we can't afford Romo. Something will have to give.

Not necessarily. Cap gurus are hired for a reason. Contracts can be spread out and split up in ways that work around cap limitations. Could still release some dead weight to make additional space (Stephenson, Crick, etc)

[Poet]

Please please please.

Campbell > Romo...

I don't even know if I disagree.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 1m

Didn't see that as primary option... efforting...

Chris Mortensen‏Verified account @mortreport

Cowboys now expect to trade Tony Romo to Broncos or Texans, sources say. Broncos talking with Jets about Trevor Siemian.

IMO, if the Broncos get rid of Trevor, it will be a mistake.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 1m

Being told by source would be surprising if #Broncos traded for Romo... Again a lot of plates in the air...Fluid situation @DenverChannel

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 57s

Multiple sources tell me #Broncos not trying to trade Trevor Siemian. But again a lot of plates in air. Crazy time @DenverChannel

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Mike Klis‏Verified account @MikeKlis 7m

Also as of 5 minutes ago, Broncos discussing, but not yet decided on how or whether to proceed on Tony Romo, per source. #9sports

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 36s

Again, it would allow Romo to have leverage. But a team trading for him would want to restructure deal. Why easier if he's a free agent

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 1m

As said by Charlie Casserly, Romo forcing a trade keeps his contract. He could ask for it to remain.Can't see team wanting him at that price

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Adam Schefter‏Verified account @AdamSchefter 6m

After considering Denver, Calais Campbell is going to sign a 4-year, $60 million deal that includes $30M gtd with Jacksonville, per source.

[Rick]

Trade needs to be contingent on him agreeing to restructure.

[Poet]

There are only two teams that want him.

I can't believe that anyone will take that contract.

[Rick]

Denver just needs to be steadfast. There is NO reason to be desperate here.

We have a hopefully future franchise kid and another kid who played solid last year.

If you want to upgrade from a solid guy to a top 10 potentially, fine, but there is no reason to be desperate to do so. Money needs to be right and compensation in any trade needs to be right or just pass. Simple.

[Valar Morghulis]

I am on the Twitter machine. Loving the news update coming in!!

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Mike Klis‏Verified account @MikeKlis 2m

Trevor Seimian in Broncos headquarters rehabbing his left shoulder. #9sports

Mike Klis‏Verified account @MikeKlis 3m

C. Campbell 4 yrs, 15m per yr, 30m guar from Jax, per source. Broncos offered 13m per, 6m less guar. Plus 1M w/no FLA income tax. #9sports

[Joel]

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 23m

Know this. #Broncos aren't waiting around on Romo. They are moving forward with free agent plans. Have multiple needs.
Time to dust off my shocked face again


:|

[7DnBrnc53]

Time to dust off my shocked face again


:|

After the Osweiler to Browns trade, I think that Romo is Houston-bound at this point.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 1m

Update: #Broncos Kayvon Webster has received strong interest from #Rams, #Eagles, #Dolphins @DenverChannel

[Rick]

I read that the Browns might release Oz after the trade. Huh? Was this just a you send me a 2nd and I will deal with your trash thing?

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 2m

Tony Romo's instagram post for your viewing pleasure. #Broncos #Texans. @DenverChannel http://bit.ly/2mM1f9j

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 6m

In case you are wondering, Trevor Siemian had great workout today. Shoulder doing well.He's why #Broncos won't get into bidding war for Romo

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 2m

Another player off the board. I liked Reiff's versatility. Again, #Broncos open to bringing back Okung. But he has multiple suitors.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Mike Klis‏Verified account @MikeKlis 7m

Broncos free agency: Leary the new guard, lose out on Calais Campbell, await Romo http://www.9news.com/sports/nfl/denver-broncos/mike-klis/broncos-free-agency-leary-the-new-guard-lose-out-on-calais-campbell-await-romo/421208139 … via @9NEWS #9sports

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 2m

#Broncos Elway on Leary to team website: "He is big, physical and athletic guard who plays with an attitude. Upgrading line was a priority"

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 6m

#Broncos make Ronald Leary signing official.. Will start at right guard. @DenverChannel

[Joel]

After the Osweiler to Browns trade, I think that Romo is Houston-bound at this point.
I'm just amused that quoting my comment turned my shocked face into my McKayla Maroney face. :tongue:

The Oz trade though... in another thread it was characterized as a team with a bunch of cap space it MUST burn to comply with the cap floor rule deciding to essentially BUY a 2nd round pick for $10M. A 2nd round pick (from a team that's won its weak division two years straight, mind.) For $10M. Oh, and:

THEY STILL DON'T HAVE A LEGIT STARTING QB!

#ClevelandThangs

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Josina Anderson‏Verified account @JosinaAnderson

I'm told Russell Okung has agreed to go the #Chargers on a 4-year deal for $53M. Guaranteed $25M

[Bronco4ever]

So... It'd really be great to have a LT at some point. Even a RT not named Stephenson, Schofield, or Sambrailo would be acceptable too.

[dogfish]

Josina Anderson‏Verified account @JosinaAnderson

I'm told Russell Okung has agreed to go the #Chargers on a 4-year deal for $53M. Guaranteed $25M

not confident that we'll be putting someone better in his place, but i will say that his incessant drive-killing penalties won't be missed. . . and it's gonna be fun watching shane ray and shaq barrett punk him twice a year. . .

[Buff]

not confident that we'll be putting someone better in his place, but i will say that his incessant drive-killing penalties won't be missed. . . and it's gonna be fun watching shane ray and shaq barrett punk him twice a year. . .

Will be funny when we sign King Dunlap and both teams end up back in the same spot.

EDIT: Whoops, I meant Fluker.

[LawDog]

NFL.com reporting that Okung's new deal is 4 yrs, $53m but only $13.25 guaranteed not $25. Had Elway picked up his option it would have been $48m with $20 guaranteed.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Mike Klis‏Verified account @MikeKlis 18m

Industry sources believe Chargers may have tampered with Russel Okung who was not supposed to negotiate till 2pm Thursday. #9sports

[NightTerror218]

Mike Klis‏Verified account @MikeKlis 18m

Industry sources believe Chargers may have tampered with Russel Okung who was not supposed to negotiate till 2pm Thursday. #9sports

Been hearing this. Would prob cost a draft pick if true

[dogfish]

so, the deadskins just fired scot mccloughan. . . and i believe we lost one of our personnel executives earlier this off-season. . .

go sign that dude, john!

[slim]

so, the deadskins just fired scot mccloughan. . . and i believe we lost one of our personnel executives earlier this off-season. . .

go sign that dude, john!

You want to hire the guy that flaked out and didn't show up for work?

[Cugel]

After the Osweiler to Browns trade, I think that Romo is Houston-bound at this point.

Obviously right. The Texans knew the Broncos were leading the fight for Romo. So, they gave up a 6th round pick + a 2nd round pick in 2018 just to unload Osweiler's $16M contract? That's an insane amount to give up. The ONLY reason to do it was to be able to out BID the Broncos for Romo.

I think Jerry decided not to release Romo the minute he learned that the Texans were now all in on Romo.

[Cugel]

I read that the Browns might release Oz after the trade. Huh? Was this just a you send me a 2nd and I will deal with your trash thing?

No. If they were willing to eat the contract (which they could have done of course, if they weren't all in for Romo), they could just release Osweiler.

They gave up a 6th rounder in 2017, PLUS a 2nd rounder in 2018 and all the Browns gave up was agreeing to eat Osweiler's salary. NO compensation at all. And they announced that they are likely to release Osweiler if they can't get anyone to take on his salary.

Although they said they are eager to do that, they had $100 M under the cap. They can afford to pay $16M for a 6th and 2nd round pick. That's what it amounts to.

[Rick]

No. If they were willing to eat the contract (which they could have done of course, if they weren't all in for Romo), they could just release Osweiler.

They gave up a 6th rounder in 2017, PLUS a 2nd rounder in 2018 and all the Browns gave up was agreeing to eat Osweiler's salary. NO compensation at all. And they announced that they are likely to release Osweiler if they can't get anyone to take on his salary.

Although they said they are eager to do that, they had $100 M under the cap. They can afford to pay $16M for a 6th and 2nd round pick. That's what it amounts to.

You just said the same thing I did, except with a lot more words.

[dogfish]

You want to hire the guy that flaked out and didn't show up for work?

hell yea. . . shit, everyone else in our front office is a drunk driver, he'll fit right in. . . i don't care if he couldn't play nice with that idiot snyder-- dude is a stud talent evaluator. . .

[VonDoom]

NFL.com reporting that Okung's new deal is 4 yrs, $53m but only $13.25 guaranteed not $25. Had Elway picked up his option it would have been $48m with $20 guaranteed.

I'm seeing $25 million guaranteed on Twitter. $13.25 million is the AAV - I doubt they would just guarantee him one year.

[dogfish]

I'm seeing $25 million guaranteed on Twitter. $13.25 million is the AAV - I doubt they would just guarantee him one year.

you think he wised up after we did it to him?

:smirks:

[LawDog]

I'm seeing $25 million guaranteed on Twitter. $13.25 million is the AAV - I doubt they would just guarantee him one year.

You callin' Rappaport a liar?

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Mike Klis‏Verified account @MikeKlis 28m

Interesting, Broncos needed a RG and LT. They have signed LG (Leary) and RT (Watson). #9sports

[VonDoom]

You callin' Rappaport a liar?

I just think a lot of information is flying around and he probably just made a typo when looking at the AAV. Happens to the best of us.

http://overthecap.com/player/russell-okung/1568

[VonDoom]

https://twitter.com/Broncos/status/840306477009141765

[CoachChaz]

https://twitter.com/Broncos/status/840306477009141765

Siemian looks like a 12 year old in that pic

[Poet]

Mike Klis‏Verified account @MikeKlis 28m

Interesting, Broncos needed a RG and LT. They have signed LG (Leary) and RT (Watson). #9sports

This is aimed at Klis, not you, Carol.

That is one of the dumbest things I have ever read in my entire life. First off, anyone who watched Stephenson play last year knows that we needed a RT. Stephenson is one of the worst starters in the entire league. Arguably, he might be the worst lineman at his position. While we do need a LT, that doesn't mean we didn't need a LG, either.

I don't know who this Klis is, but I hate him forever!

[Simple Jaded]

This is aimed at Klis, not you, Carol.

That is one of the dumbest things I have ever read in my entire life. First off, anyone who watched Stephenson play last year knows that we needed a RT. Stephenson is one of the worst starters in the entire league. Arguably, he might be the worst lineman at his position. While we do need a LT, that doesn't mean we didn't need a LG, either.

I don't know who this Klis is, but I hate him forever!

^^^This, except change the name of "Stephenson" to "Garcia".

[Simple Jaded]

so, the deadskins just fired scot mccloughan. . . and i believe we lost one of our personnel executives earlier this off-season. . .

go sign that dude, john!

Did I hear right, the Skins replaced McCloughan with Mike Mayock?

[turftoad]

Did I hear right, the Skins replaced McCloughan with Mike Mayock?

Not yet buddy.

[Simple Jaded]

Not yet buddy.

But is that even a thing?

[turftoad]

But is that even a thing?

Rumors say they have contacted him.

[Simple Jaded]

Rumors say they have contacted him.

I like Mayock, hope he shoots them down.

[LawDog]

Dan Snyder better be happy that the 49ers ownership exists just so he isn't the worst owner in the league.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

This is aimed at Klis, not you, Carol.

That is one of the dumbest things I have ever read in my entire life. First off, anyone who watched Stephenson play last year knows that we needed a RT. Stephenson is one of the worst starters in the entire league. Arguably, he might be the worst lineman at his position. While we do need a LT, that doesn't mean we didn't need a LG, either.

I don't know who this Klis is, but I hate him forever!

Agreed, I thought it was poop soup.

[Poet]

Agreed, I thought it was poop soup.

I don't like Klis. He is now my enemy.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I don't like Klis. He is now my enemy.

Khalil Mack just had another sack.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 12h

#Broncos had interest in Sly Williams returning. Made offer. Tennessee his new destination. Good man. Wish him all the best. @DenverChannel

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 12h

#Broncos had interest in Sly Williams returning. Made offer. Tennessee his new destination. Good man. Wish him all the best. @DenverChannel

That's close to where he grew up

[Cugel]

Well, another gaping hole to fill in FA. They keep misjudging the market or they wouldn't keep making offers to these free agents and having them shot down. Once again, Elway made all those comments about their not rejecting Sly in refusing to extend his fifth year option, but once again Money talks and B.S. Walks. They wanted Williams to agree to a "reduced" contract, and he flat refused, hit FA and got essentially the same money the Broncos refused to pay him + a little bit more.

[Cugel]

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 1h1 hour ago

Troy Renck Retweeted Ramie Ramon Enriquez ("Is Donald Stephenson staying?")

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck

Still undecided. Watson plays his position so it doesn't look great for him

[Cugel]

Well, there's this article. (http://www.thedenverchannel.com/sports/broncos/tony-romo-trade-options-what-needs-to-happen-to-facilitate-a-deal)


Hall of Fame general manager Bill Polian painted the following scenario as a roadmap for any deal on ESPN radio Friday. It begins with Romo restructuring his contract as a member of the Cowboys. He has power, and could work directly with those he's familiar with in reducing his salary. Why? Without doing it, he could block any deal and say he's not going to restructure for the new team, like for example's sake, the New York Jets.

If Jones can work with Romo on a reworked deal, it could increase the odds of a trade. The Cowboys, it follows in this scenario, would be communicating with the Texans and Broncos on a number they would find feasible. The lower Romo's salary the more likely the Cowboys get a draft pick for him. If Romo dropped to $10 million next season, his deal could could also include performance attachments to a draft pick. If he starts 14 games, a seventh round pick becomes a sixth-round pick or a even a fifth-round pick if he takes a predetermined number of snaps, for instance. Lowering the base salary with incentives provides a measure of injury protection for a team acquiring a quarterback who has played in five games the past two seasons, throwing six touchdowns with seven interceptions.

As Polian stated, "the lower the cost of (Romo's contract), the more you are likely given in return."

Again, the key would be Dallas talking with suitors to determine what they would be seeking in regards to the contract. When Houston cleared $10 million in salary cap space with the shocking trade of Brock Osweiler to the Cleveland Browns, it appeared to tip its hand. The Broncos are not operating with a sense of urgency or panic because of their comfort level with Trevor Siemian (18 touchdowns, 10 interceptions in 14 starts last season) and the presence of Lynch. Still, they have long been expected to express interest in Romo as a free agent.

The teams have to believe a trade is necessary, otherwise they will attempt to call Jones' bluff and wait for Romo to be released.

Will either team blink? A major tweak in Romo's contract could be the impetus for a twitch.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Andrew Mason Retweeted
Ethan Young‏ @NFLDrafter 23m

I see Patriots, Broncos, Dolphins, Vikings, Texans, Falcons, Rams, Lions, Eagles, Chargers and 49ers reps here at the Washington Pro Day.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Andrew Mason Retweeted
Ethan Young‏ @NFLDrafter 23m

I see Patriots, Broncos, Dolphins, Vikings, Texans, Falcons, Rams, Lions, Eagles, Chargers and 49ers reps here at the Washington Pro Day.

Gimme some John Ross!!

[spikerman]

Well, another gaping hole to fill in FA. They keep misjudging the market or they wouldn't keep making offers to these free agents and having them shot down. Once again, Elway made all those comments about their not rejecting Sly in refusing to extend his fifth year option, but once again Money talks and B.S. Walks. They wanted Williams to agree to a "reduced" contract, and he flat refused, hit FA and got essentially the same money the Broncos refused to pay him + a little bit more.
I'm ok with Sly walking and I suspect the Broncos are too. He was certainly nothing special last year (or the previous three). I don't think replacing his production will prove to be all that difficult.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 8m

Also Kayvon Webster scheduled to visit #LARams on Sunday. They are making push to sign him @DenverChannel

[Joel]

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 8m

Also Kayvon Webster scheduled to visit #LARams on Sunday. They are making push to sign him @DenverChannel
:( Even if we gave him what he's worth, we still can't offer him much playing time except on STs, and he's a starting caliber CB who knows it.

I hope everyone giving me crap about Talib being an elite player until he's 40 (when not suspended/injured by on/offfield illegal violence) are right. If he falls off a cliff soon and Webster's elsewhere, the NFLs best secondary won't be ours anymore.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

:( Even if we gave him what he's worth, we still can't offer him much playing time except on STs, and he's a starting caliber CB who knows it.

I hope everyone giving me crap about Talib being an elite player until he's 40 (when not suspended/injured by on/offfield illegal violence) are right. If he falls off a cliff soon and Webster's elsewhere, the NFLs best secondary won't be ours anymore.

You've been conjecturing about Talibs droppoff for two seasons now. There's a lot of attrition in the NFL. It happens.

Why don't you just enjoy the greatness of our secondary while we have it? It's likely when he and Ward are gone the great secondary be gone too. Players like Talib are hard to come by. There's only a few of them in the NFL. Dumping him for an above average player who is a few years younger for sake of the proverbial cliff is silly.

Quit paralyzing the now speculating about the future Joe.

[Hawgdriver]

I would love to see the Broncos pick up Kevin King (CB, UW) if he drops to the 3d.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Mike Klis‏Verified account @MikeKlis 16m

Broncos and Donald Stephenson have restructured contract keeping OT with team. #9sports

[DenBronx]

So with Stephenson restructuring is he going to start at RT?

[Traveler]

LT-WATSON
LG-LEARY
C-PARADIS
RG-GARCÍA
RT-STEPHENSON

This would be our OL if the season started today. Sheesh!

[turftoad]

So with Stephenson restructuring is he going to start at RT?

Not really. He gets two mill now and another two mill if he makes the 53 man roster.

[Traveler]

Not really. He gets two mill now and another two mill if he makes the 53 man roster.

So in reality, he gets nothing if he doesn't make the roster.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 9m

But again, I don't believe starting LT is on roster yet. Team has 10 draft picks, and, if need be, could explore trade. @DenverChannel

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 16m

Stephenson will compete for LT job. But strong chance starting LT not on roster given #Broncos' 10 draft picks.. @DenverChannel

[Cugel]

So with Stephenson restructuring is he going to start at RT?

It might be they re-signed him for depth and are planning to start Watson at RT, have Stephenson back up. After all, Watson is often injured and you can't make him play the entire game anyway. You have to have some rotational guys.

As of right now, the Broncos don't even have enough starters, let alone any depth! I would expect them to add at least 1 OT between now and the day of the draft.

If they don't they become too predictable. Every other team then would know "the Broncos are going to draft a T in the first round." So, if you also want to draft a T, your team knows "we have to trade up to get in front of the Broncos so as to make sure WE get Ramczyk or Bolles".

Not only do you have to reach to fill holes, you become a sitting duck for other teams to bypass because they all know what you HAVE to do.

It's rather like a baseball hitter sitting on an inside fastball, knowing exactly where the pitch is coming, thus being able to time it perfectly. CRAAACK!

[Cugel]

Not really. He gets two mill now and another two mill if he makes the 53 man roster.

That contract is designed as a very needed wakeup call. Stephenson took 2016 off after getting the big contract. Now it's time for him to wake up and play! This new coaching staff is not going to just coddle him along if they think he's not putting out serious and sustained effort. If he's going to take another long winter's nap starting in September, they can pick up some ageing veteran in July or August cuts and get rid of Stephenson. His contract isn't so great that they are stuck with a ton of dead cap money if he goes.

I think it's a good move. Give Stephenson a wake up call and see how he responds playing for his job! Because physically he has the tools to succeed. He played well enough in KC that the Broncos wanted him and thought they had solved the RT problem.

If they are not going to sign a premier LT in FA (and all the candidates have now signed with other teams), then they need to get a lot better production from the scrubs they have.

[Cugel]

:( Even if we gave him what he's worth, we still can't offer him much playing time except on STs, and he's a starting caliber CB who knows it.

I hope everyone giving me crap about Talib being an elite player until he's 40 (when not suspended/injured by on/offfield illegal violence) are right. If he falls off a cliff soon and Webster's elsewhere, the NFLs best secondary won't be ours anymore.

Webster is not even the nickel back once they drafted Bradley Roby. The original plan was for Roby to take Aqib's spot and Webster to take Roby's. But, Talib turned into one of the top CBs in football, so they put up with an occasional suspension or dumb off-field maneuver like shooting himself. The Steelers put up with Antonio Brown who did much worse than Talib ever did. Why? Because of his talent of course!

Talib will either chill out with the damaging incidents or they will wait until his skills decline and then release him. Don't grab a guy by the face mask and throw him out of bounds, idiot! Don't get drunk and play with your gun you fool!

[slim]

What did Antonio Brown do?

[Simple Jaded]

What did Antonio Brown do?

I think he's talking about Twittering post game speech by Tomlin. Although, I don't know if that's worse than shooting yourself in the ass.

[slim]

I think he's talking about Twittering post game speech by Tomlin.

Oh, I guess I didn't realize that was worse than shooting yourself.

[Simple Jaded]

Oh, I guess I didn't realize that was worse than shooting yourself.

In the ass.

[Valar Morghulis]

Oh, I guess I didn't realize that was worse than shooting yourself.

No, me either, but now I know shooting myself is the lesser of two evils I will be sure to do it more often

[Simple Jaded]

Moderated

Details are sketchy, close enough.

[Cugel]

What did Antonio Brown do?

Don't you remember the fact that Brown embarrassed his team by filming Tomlin's lockerroom speech and posting it on social media. That's something you just don't do. Period. It's even against NFL rules. Tomlin was forced to apologize to the Patriots, and it served as a badly unneeded distraction right before their playoff loss.

And Tomlin gave a speech in which he absolutely ripped Brown, and said he "hoped Antonio" would not force him, Tomlin, to release him, like the Steelers did other players who caused problems in the locker room. It was a really big deal.

Of course, Brown is the best WR in the NFL so they grit their teeth and bear it. For now. But, if he were to continue causing embarrassing problems like that, he could be dealt. They've done it before with other talented players who thought they were bigger than the team.

[MOtorboat]

Don't you remember the fact that Brown embarrassed his team by filming Tomlin's lockerroom speech and posting it on social media. That's something you just don't do. Period. It's even against NFL rules. Tomlin was forced to apologize to the Patriots, and it served as a badly unneeded distraction right before their playoff loss.

And Tomlin gave a speech in which he absolutely ripped Brown, and said he "hoped Antonio" would not force him, Tomlin, to release him, like the Steelers did other players who caused problems in the locker room. It was a really big deal.

Of course, Brown is the best WR in the NFL so they grit their teeth and bear it. For now. But, if he were to continue causing embarrassing problems like that, he could be dealt. They've done it before with other talented players who thought they were bigger than the team.

I just spent the last minute laughing at the fact that you think his Periscope video is the same as Talib's repeated run-ins with the law and shooting himself in the ass.

Lol, that's absurd.

[Northman]

I just spent the last minute laughing at the fact that you think his Periscope video is the same as Talib's repeated run-ins with the law and shooting himself in the ass.

Lol, that's absurd.

This should really surprise no one. lol

[slim]

I just spent the last minute laughing at the fact that you think his Periscope video is the same as Talib's repeated run-ins with the law and shooting himself in the ass.

Lol, that's absurd.

But Brown broke NFL rules.

[Poet]

moderated

I appreciate a message board slogan.

Try it with a hashtag! Maybe change the font! Get fancy with it - you've earned it.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I appreciate a message board slogan.

Try it with a hashtag! Maybe change the font! Get fancy with it - you've earned it.

#shooturasswitdat!

[Joel]

The best part is we still don't know if Talib'll be suspended now that his lawyer's publicly admitted he shot HIMSELF somewhere it's illegal to even HAVE a gun (and no, I don't mean in the ass.) I believe some folks really want to see Doss play: If Talib's suspended all of September and Webster signs with L.A., they may get their wish.

[BeefStew25]

Talib didn't crater the morale of the team. Brown did.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Talib didn't crater the morale of the team. Brown did.

Antonio?

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 2h

#Broncos host DE/OLB Kasim Edebali for visit, looking for depth on Dline and special teams. @DenverChannel http://bit.ly/2nlXh4W

[BroncoJoe]

LOL at the comments!

Maybe he needs a new prescription on the glasses?

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 3m

Elway said has interest in bringing back Watson, Walker. Believe has chance there. Talked like likely to to lose Webster. @DenverChannel

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 4m

Elway on Romo: "We never say never. ... We always look at options. .. I stay open to everything and we'll see how things go." @DenverChannel

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 5m

#Broncos Elway. "I never say never. I stay open to everything." Clearly no panic in his approach. @DenverChannel

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 6m

#Broncos Elway on Romo "Tony is under contract still. Like said, nothing changed since the combine.Feel like in good space." @DenverChannel

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 11m

#Broncos Kerr said important to be stout vs. run. "That's the direction we are going here." @DenverChannel

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 13m

#Broncos Kerr "I have to keep improving my technique. I don't care what position I play. I never did. I never will." @DenverChannel

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 14m

Zach Kerr said when got call from Elway "It was surreal." Had interest from #49ers, #Giants @DenverChannel

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 15m

Peko: "I don't consider myself just a nose.. I want to make plays sideline to sideline."

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 18m

Peko: ""It's awesome having my little cousin Kyle here. Good to have another Peko in the house!" Peko has been durable throughout career

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 19m

#Broncos Peko said has interest from Eagles, 49ers, Vikings..Vance Joseph was key. Had good relationship w him in Cincinnati. @DenverChannel

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 17m

VIDEO: #Broncos Elway says not done yet at left tackle @DenverChannel

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 26m

#Broncos will look at Watson and Stephenson at left tackle. But position remains work in progress, Elway, Joseph said. @DenverChannel

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 29m

#Broncos Vance Joseph said comfortable with Siemian. And that Lynch is "ready for challenge in an open competition" @DenverChannel

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 31m

#Broncos Elway comfortable exercising discipline with QB situation. Did it last year with Kaepernick @DenverChannel

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 34m

#Broncos Elway on QB situation: "There's been a lot of things out there that aren't true as to what's going on with our quarterbacks."

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Peko and Kerr combine to total 670 pounds. Either one can play DE or NT. I like it.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 4m

#Broncos Elway said misinformation out there on team's QB situation. Not inclined to trade for Romo. @DenverChannel: http://bit.ly/2ngNYXe

[Poet]

Peko and Kerr combine to total 670 pounds. Either one can play DE or NT. I like it.

Do you think they'll ever both line up as DE's in some situations?

[MOtorboat]

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 4m

#Broncos Elway said misinformation out there on team's QB situation. Not inclined to trade for Romo. @DenverChannel: http://bit.ly/2ngNYXe

Well, no one wants to trade for a guy who was supposed to be cut...

[MOtorboat]

Do you think they'll ever both line up as DE's in some situations?

Possibly, but only if Wolfe needs a breather.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Do you think they'll ever both line up as DE's in some situations?

Yes, if we find a forklift to play the Nose.

[Poet]

Possibly, but only if Wolfe needs a breather.

Does this mean we're out of the running for Poe? Never felt like we were in it.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Does this mean we're out of the running for Poe? Never felt like we were in it.

Poe would be more likely to line up at DE because of his athleticism.

[MOtorboat]

Does this mean we're out of the running for Poe? Never felt like we were in it.

I don't think they really went after him, but signing two defensive tackles/ends and looking at a third would make it seem so.

[Poet]

I don't think they really went after him, but signing two defensive tackles/ends and looking at a third would make it seem so.

I really wanted him. )=

[BroncoJoe]

I really wanted him. )=

Note to self:

Anyone Von Kinger wants, the Broncos don't...

:D

[Poet]

Note to self:

Anyone Von Kinger wants, the Broncos don't...

:D

I wanted Campbell and Leary, you poop face!!!!!!!!111

[Denver Native (Carol)]

.J. Ward‏Verified account @BossWard43 3h

Just met our two new D linemen! They gone be a lot of help ��. Keep them off me! Lol

[GEM]

Poe wants higher than $10Mil on a one year deal, let Atlanta pay stupid $. I wish we could have grabbed him in the draft! Just happy he'll be out of our division.

[Poet]

Poe wants higher than $10Mil on a one year deal, let Atlanta pay stupid $. I wish we could have grabbed him in the draft! Just happy he'll be out of our division.

I stand corrected!

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 3m

#Broncos sign OLB/DE Kasim Edebali.. Reported earlier he was on visit.. @DenverChannel

[VonDoom]

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 3m

#Broncos sign OLB/DE Kasim Edebali.. Reported earlier he was on visit.. @DenverChannel

Mike Klis‏Verified account @MikeKlis 16m16 minutes ago

Broncos announce signing of former Saints DE/OLB Kasim Edebali. A rotation player who had 5.0 sacks in 2015. #9sports

Cameron Wolfe‏Verified account @CameronWolfe 19m19 minutes ago

Edebali will likely provide OLB depth behind Von Miller, Shane Ray & Shaquil Barrett. Played DE in Saints 4-3 D.

Cecil Lammey‏ @CecilLammey 21m21 minutes ago

Edebali (6-2, 253 pounds) is a 4th-year player who appeared in all 48 possible regular-season games (2 starts) in his 1st 3 seasons w/Saints

Cameron Wolfe‏Verified account @CameronWolfe 6m6 minutes ago

Count on Kasim Edebali to play a role similar to Dekoda Watson last year. A lot of ST and providing depth at OLB.

[dogfish]

why in the world would the saints not re-sign anyone who could get sacks in that hot garbage defense?

[Poet]

Are they still in salary cap hell? Maybe he didn't want to be a Saint anymore?

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Former Broncos cornerback Kayvon Webster announced Monday evening that he is signing with the Los Angeles Rams, reuniting him with defensive coordinator Wade Phillips. After spending the day visiting with the team, Webster accepted a two-year deal, an NFL source confirmed.

“Official a Ram! Los Angeles what’s good time to show up and show out! Grind hard stay focused thankful,” Webster tweeted before thanking his former teammates in an Instagram post.

“Denver,” he wrote, “I will forever have a place in my heart for ya lots of great memories with my brothers I will have for a lifetime, new direction new era! RAMS NATION!”

rest - http://www.denverpost.com/2017/03/13/kayvon-webster-los-angeles-rams/

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 1h

#Broncos LT features Vacancy sign.Dunlap among potential options as team exercises patience in search @DenverChannel http://bit.ly/2nt4hgw

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Mike Klis‏Verified account @MikeKlis 4m

Broncos to visit with Joe Mixon today. http://www.9news.com/sports/nfl/denver-broncos/broncos-to-visit-with-joe-mixon/423060956 … via @9NEWS #9sports

[BeefStew25]

Oh man. Maybe 7 is playing games and wants someone else to draft him higher.

[VonDoom]

Cameron Wolfe‏Verified account @CameronWolfe 6m6 minutes ago

NFLPA has #Broncos with $20.973M in cap room after their 5 FA signings so far. Kasim Edebali's 1-yr deal worth a little over $1M ($1M base).

Cameron Wolfe‏Verified account @CameronWolfe 4m4 minutes ago

Cap is based off Top 51 so as new signings join Top 51 a contract is deducted. Broncos usually keep $8-10M cap min. for draft picks/chaos

[dogfish]

Cameron Wolfe‏Verified account @CameronWolfe 6m6 minutes ago

NFLPA has #Broncos with $20.973M in cap room after their 5 FA signings so far. Kasim Edebali's 1-yr deal worth a little over $1M ($1M base).

Cameron Wolfe‏Verified account @CameronWolfe 4m4 minutes ago

Cap is based off Top 51 so as new signings join Top 51 a contract is deducted. Broncos usually keep $8-10M cap min. for draft picks/chaos

so basically, we have to sit on what's left of it (11-13 mil) in case we can get romo's gimp ass at some point. . .

we need to kill it in the draft this year. . .

[Hawgdriver]

so basically, we have to sit on what's left of it (11-13 mil) in case we can get romo's gimp ass at some point. . .

we need to kill it in the draft this year. . .

It's hard to believe that what we have at this moment is the best the Broncos can do about the offensive line. Maybe it is. It just sucks.

I'd love to see a Peters trade go down.

I am indifferent to Romo, but at the end of the day I'd prefer he play in Denver, and that he's on an incentive-oriented (injury-hedged) deal. Easiest way to make a line better without actually improving personnel is to have a good RB, some speed to pull defense away from box, and a good QB to call out protections and get the ball out quickly.

Having said that, I heard this stat the other day that Romo holds on to the ball a long ass time. Not sure that's a good fit for this O-line and that 37-year old frame.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 7m

Roughly $8 to $9 million goes to draft picks. So about $11 million left in cap space. @DenverChannel

Cameron Wolfe‏Verified account @CameronWolfe

NFLPA has #Broncos with $20.973M in cap room after their 5 FA signings so far. Kasim Edebali's 1-yr deal worth a little over $1M ($1M base).

[VonDoom]

It's hard to believe that what we have at this moment is the best the Broncos can do about the offensive line. Maybe it is. It just sucks.

I'd love to see a Peters trade go down.

I am indifferent to Romo, but at the end of the day I'd prefer he play in Denver, and that he's on an incentive-oriented (injury-hedged) deal. Easiest way to make a line better without actually improving personnel is to have a good RB, some speed to pull defense away from box, and a good QB to call out protections and get the ball out quickly.

Having said that, I heard this stat the other day that Romo holds on to the ball a long ass time. Not sure that's a good fit for this O-line and that 37-year old frame.

I'd still pass on Romo, but it's not up to me, so who knows? As far as the line goes, Peters is the most interesting idea left, as it would involve some outside the box thinking (see: the Patriots off season) but would give us a big upgrade there. Not sure anyone else provides anything except to eat up cap space. King Dunlap? I mean, I hope not.

If we get nothing else there before the draft, I assume we draft a tackle high and let him compete with Stephenson for the LT job. Not ideal but that's where we are right now.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Mike Klis‏Verified account @MikeKlis 2h

Broncos visit with Joe Mixon has concluded. He met with several members of Broncos brass including GM John Elway and CEO Joe Ellis. #9sports

[Denver Native (Carol)]

San Francisco 49ers‏Verified account

The @49ers have signed linebacker Dekoda Watson.

DETAILS: http://49rs.co/JAMCIR

[spikerman]

San Francisco 49ers‏Verified account

The @49ers have signed linebacker Dekoda Watson.

DETAILS: http://49rs.co/JAMCIR
Special teams will have some holes to fill.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Troy Renck Retweeted
Broncos Off Field‏Verified account @BroncosOffField 44s

Thank you for all you did to #BeAChampion here in Denver, @dekodawatson57!

[slim]

Special teams will have some holes to fill.

So does BTB's sister.

[Cugel]

It's hard to believe that what we have at this moment is the best the Broncos can do about the offensive line. Maybe it is. It just sucks.

I'd love to see a Peters trade go down.

I am indifferent to Romo, but at the end of the day I'd prefer he play in Denver, and that he's on an incentive-oriented (injury-hedged) deal. Easiest way to make a line better without actually improving personnel is to have a good RB, some speed to pull defense away from box, and a good QB to call out protections and get the ball out quickly.

Having said that, I heard this stat the other day that Romo holds on to the ball a long ass time. Not sure that's a good fit for this O-line and that 37-year old frame.

Basically you're right about all of this. I sure looks like the Broncos actually intend to limp into this season with Donald Stephenson, Ty Sambrilo, or Michael Schofield at LT. (I know, I know, Schofield isn't a T let alone a LT, but the word is now that the Broncos have told Schofield isn't a G, plus they just added Leary to play his position.) I would hate watching this. The OL would be worse than last year. As of Game 1 we would be missing Russell Okung. That bad.

There is not ONE T in this draft who is expected to be like a young Ryan Clady who can come in and start at LT this year. Nobody. Clady was the #12 pick anyway, and the Chiefs were ready to take him at #13 if he fell to them. Normally a guy who can step in and become a dominant LT in this league gets taken in the top 5 picks. There just aren't a lot of those guys available.

I'd love to see a Peters trade go down. I'd trade anybody on this team, other than Von Miller or Chris Harris; and maybe Wolfe, as he's really underpaid, you don't want to lose him.

But, Mike Klis of 9News when pressed is insisting that he doesn't see a trade in the works like that.

My guess is that the Broncos either trade for somebody that fans will say "Who?" or use a draft pick on a guy.

They could even wait until summer and try to pick up some ageing veteran OT they feel might have one last gasp of juice in him yet. They've done that before.

Otherwise it's getting used to seeing Donald Stephenson at LT. I don't think they can draft a guy like Ramczyk or Bolles and expect either to start at LT this season. Neither would even be considered a first round pick in a normal T class. Last year both would have been drafted in the 2nd round according to NFL draft experts.

A guy like that could develop into a starting player - maybe - in a couple of years. Maybe 2 or 3.

Take a look at Paradis. He was a 6th round developmental player. In his first season he was utterly invisible. You would expect a 2nd round pick to do better in his first season, but you would NOT expect him to start as a rookie, unless the draft were VERY deep at his position, so a guy who might normally be considered a first round talent fell to the 2nd. But, this is the opposite. A 2nd round talent gets boosted up to the first round because of desperate need at his position all around the league.

Pass.

[Joel]

In defence of drafting guys who'd be 2nd round OTs in any normal class: I'm told 2nd round OTs are freakin' MONEY, after all, that's where we got Sambrailo! ;)

Since those are the few guys I consistently hear everyone who follows college declare the best of a very bad OT class though, BOTH may be gone by #20. Turns out OTs, especially LTs, are highly sought after, so the top 1-2 in any given class rarely last til the end of the 1st round, much less end of the 2nd (who knew?)

[Krugan]

In defence of drafting guys who'd be 2nd round OTs in any normal class: I'm told 2nd round OTs are freakin' MONEY, after all, that's where we got Sambrailo! ;)

Since those are the few guys I consistently hear everyone who follows college declare the best of a very bad OT class though, BOTH may be gone by #20. Turns out OTs, especially LTs, are highly sought after, so the top 1-2 in any given class rarely last til the end of the 1st round, much less end of the 2nd (who knew?)

As much as i agree with you about the lack of oline quality, i ant quite get where this team could make much for changes.

Over the last several years, the option to pick up OT's in the "top end" have been pretty limited because, well they have been winning forcing them into the later part of the rounds. The have went out and attempted to grab players for said positions, but sadly havent either coached them correctly, or jsut flat out suck at selecting lineman.

The only real option would have been to either sacrifice a draft pull in a LT, which im not going to take the time to look at who has been available in the draft and how much of a draft we would have had to give up, or Joe Thomas for 1 or 2 first rounders.

It really hasnt been for lack of effort, but maybe being good is a bad thing? i dont know:P

[VonDoom]

In defence of drafting guys who'd be 2nd round OTs in any normal class: I'm told 2nd round OTs are freakin' MONEY, after all, that's where we got Sambrailo! ;)

Since those are the few guys I consistently hear everyone who follows college declare the best of a very bad OT class though, BOTH may be gone by #20. Turns out OTs, especially LTs, are highly sought after, so the top 1-2 in any given class rarely last til the end of the 1st round, much less end of the 2nd (who knew?)

Who exactly were these stud tackles that we could have had the last few years in the first round? It's too early to tell on last year, but let's look at the two years prior. In 2014, we picked 31st in the first round and selected Roby. Here were the OT that went before our pick:

Greg Robinson
Jake Matthews
Taylor Lewan
Ja'Wuan James

All in the top 20, by the way. Lewan is the best of those guys, right? He went #11. So how were we getting him unless it was a massive trade up?

In 2015, we picked 23rd, where we traded up from 28th for Shane Ray. Here are the OT that went before our pick:

Brandon Scherff (moved to G now, I believe)
Ereck Flowers (sucks so far)
Andrus Peat (pretty sure he sucks so far too)
Cedric Ogbuehi (injured, and then was underwhelming when he played)
DJ Humphries (taken at #24, so if we hadn't traded up, would have been gone before we picked).

Again, who did you want there and at what cost? It's hard to find quality OT. I'm not even talking about stars - just average OT. If we take one at #20 this year and start him, he might be average, which is still better than what we currently have. But there's not a plethora of quality guys out there so if we take a big player at another position (a la Roby and Ray), I'm not going to lose my mind.

[Poet]

Joel...he's taking off his belt. Apologize now. That man is going to hurt you.

[Hawgdriver]

There is not ONE T in this draft who is expected to be like a young Ryan Clady ...I don't think they can draft a guy like Ramczyk or Bolles and expect either to start at LT this season. Neither would even be considered a first round pick in a normal T class. Last year both would have been drafted in the 2nd round according to NFL draft experts.

Yeah, I hope they don't look at the OTs in the first round as the answer. In this draft class that's not winning imo.

[Hawgdriver]

Joel...he's taking off his belt. Apologize now. That man is going to hurt you.

Love it!!

Welcome back homie.

I'm pissed at all those stupid ass schools that have no clue what they are doing overlooking you.

[Poet]

Love it!!

Welcome back homie.

I'm pissed at all those stupid ass schools that have no clue what they are doing overlooking you.

I'm not good enough to get into those schools. It is what it is. I failed.

[Hawgdriver]

I'm not good enough to get into those schools. It is what it is. I failed.

How does a person respond to this, Kinger?

[dogfish]

How does a person respond to this, Kinger?

give him either a pat on the back, or a swift kick in the nuts?

[Poet]

How does a person respond to this, Kinger?

Person meaning you in response to the message that you quoted, or me in the situation I am in?

[Hawgdriver]

give him either a pat on the back, or a swift kick in the nuts?

Yeah, man. I had both typed up, and then decided just to throw that hot mess back at him. Love you homie. both you buttnuts.

[Valar Morghulis]

How does a person respond to this, Kinger?

By clarifying his definition of failure.

If his goal was to get into a specific law school, he did fail. And needs a hug, possible a hand job.

If it was to get into law school in order to become a lawyer, then he needs a kick in the nuts, and possible hand job.

[dogfish]

Yeah, man. I had both typed up, and then decided just to throw that hot mess back at him. Love you homie. both you buttnuts.

likewise, meng. . . and king needs hot mess thrown at him from time to time. . .



By clarifying his definition of failure.

If his goal was to get into a specific law school, he did fail. And needs a hug, possible a hand job.

If it was to get into law school in order to become a lawyer, then he needs a kick in the nuts, and possible hand job.

never question the wisdom of a drunken scotsman. . .

[NightTerror218]

I am seeing articles that joe thomas's agent has reached out to broncos about a trade.

http://den.247sports.com/Bolt/Joe-Thomas-agent-doing-my-best-to-bring-LT-to-Denver-51860967

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I am seeing articles that joe thomas's agent has reached out to broncos about a trade.

That would be so awesome. We haven't had a productive 2nd rounder in the last five years anyway.

[NightTerror218]

Reading article on Pynch. He hired QB coach Charlie Taaffe right after the season. He has been in contact with musgrave and mccoy. I hope to see him work with WRs this offseason too. I just like that he is putting in the extra work.

http://den.247sports.com/Bolt/Paxton-Lynch-feels-a-lot-more-comfortable-in-second-year-51846175

[Rick]

Reading article on Pynch. He hired QB coach Charlie Taaffe right after the season. He has been in contact with musgrave and mccoy. I hope to see him work with WRs this offseason too. I just like that he is putting in the extra work.

http://den.247sports.com/Bolt/Paxton-Lynch-feels-a-lot-more-comfortable-in-second-year-51846175

Hopefully he does what Sanchez and Peyton did and he flies them all out somewhere.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Reading article on Pynch. He hired QB coach Charlie Taaffe right after the season. He has been in contact with musgrave and mccoy. I hope to see him work with WRs this offseason too. I just like that he is putting in the extra work.

http://den.247sports.com/Bolt/Paxton-Lynch-feels-a-lot-more-comfortable-in-second-year-51846175

The original article in regards to Lynch is posted on the Broncos' website
http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Paxton-Lynch-ready-for-Broncos-quarterback-competition/966e0972-feeb-495f-bbcf-ee8f4e9929b9

[VonDoom]

I am seeing articles that joe thomas's agent has reached out to broncos about a trade.

http://den.247sports.com/Bolt/Joe-Thomas-agent-doing-my-best-to-bring-LT-to-Denver-51860967

I saw this earlier. Seems incredibly unlikely to me. They've spent millions on their o-line this year and they'll turn around and trade their best, most loyal lineman now?

[NightTerror218]

I saw this earlier. Seems incredibly unlikely to me. They've spent millions on their o-line this year and they'll turn around and trade their best, most loyal lineman now?

They are also aiming to go young and get as many picks as possible.

[Cugel]

In defence of drafting guys who'd be 2nd round OTs in any normal class: I'm told 2nd round OTs are freakin' MONEY, after all, that's where we got Sambrailo! ;)

Since those are the few guys I consistently hear everyone who follows college declare the best of a very bad OT class though, BOTH may be gone by #20. Turns out OTs, especially LTs, are highly sought after, so the top 1-2 in any given class rarely last til the end of the 1st round, much less end of the 2nd (who knew?)

Can you imagine being the fan of a team that actually drafted Ramczyk or Bolles BEFORE 20? :eek:

I can see it happening of course. Teams reach desperately to fill holes all the time (bad ones do that is). But, man! Talk about a major reach! It's bad enough seeing the Broncos draft a craptastic OT at #20 who might start and do well by 2018. But, at #15-19? There are some really GOOOD players who will make an immediate impact available at those spots: RB, CB, WR, TE, S, and especially DL or S.

In fact, there's solid studs available between 15 and 20 at almost every position EXCEPT OL.

[Cugel]

I'm not good enough to get into those schools. It is what it is. I failed.

Did you do what I did before taking the LSAT? Stanley Kaplan course? That really helped me a lot (especially with Logic Games. I don't know if they still have that, but I wouldn't have gotten any of those questions without that prep course).

You could try to study again for the LSAT. And at worst you could get a graduate degree somewhere in something else and re-apply based on better grades in grad school. But, I have to tell you there are a ton of lawyers around and not that many jobs. Law schools are churning out too many lawyers and some of them are failing to find jobs. Right now a really good, experienced bankruptcy paralegal can make probably make more money than many licensed law school grads.

[Poet]

Did you do what I did before taking the LSAT? Stanley Kaplan course? That really helped me a lot (especially with Logic Games. I don't know if they still have that, but I wouldn't have gotten any of those questions without that prep course).

You could try to study again for the LSAT. And at worst you could get a graduate degree somewhere in something else and re-apply based on better grades in grad school. But, I have to tell you there are a ton of lawyers around and not that many jobs. Law schools are churning out too many lawyers and some of them are failing to find jobs. Right now a really good, experienced bankruptcy paralegal can make probably make more money than many licensed law school grads.

The best way to tackle the issues with jobs for attorneys is to go to specific areas in the country - for instance, in Southern Illinois, there is a demand for attorneys, even with a law school in that area.

I was fortunate to link up with a professor who is doing scholarly research on that subject, and so I'm trying to find the 'pockets'.

I put in over 600 hours on that test, took a class, etc.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Elway 'surprised' Ware walked away
At the NFL's Annual Meetings, John Elway sits down with BTV's Phil Milani to talk about free agency, the draft and Hall of Fame chances for Broncos Owner Pat Bowlen.

http://www.denverbroncos.com/multimedia/videos/Elway-surprised-Ware-walked-away/5b772b10-374e-4c93-9dfd-e9aeef7b77b1

[Ziggy]

Can you imagine being the fan of a team that actually drafted Ramczyk or Bolles BEFORE 20? :eek:

I can see it happening of course. Teams reach desperately to fill holes all the time (bad ones do that is). But, man! Talk about a major reach! It's bad enough seeing the Broncos draft a craptastic OT at #20 who might start and do well by 2018. But, at #15-19? There are some really GOOOD players who will make an immediate impact available at those spots: RB, CB, WR, TE, S, and especially DL or S.

In fact, there's solid studs available between 15 and 20 at almost every position EXCEPT OL.

That's your opinion. I think there are 3 tackles that are first round quality. The biggest problem is that two of them only have one year of experience at the D1 level. Both played well during that year though. Ramczyk was solid in both run and pass protection. He played well hurt and had surgery in the offseason. Bolles has great feet, he just needs to improve his strength. He's also 25 years old. Both of those guys have issues, but the talent is there.

Cam Robinson has the potential to be a franchise left tackle. He also fits the mold that the Broncos have been looking for in the offseason. Big, mean and nasty. Watch the game against Myles Garrett, who will be the first pick in this draft. Robinson was really the only tackle that Garrett played that held his own against him.

watch?v=s1Dz6-Xs0Y0

I'd be thrilled if Cam fell to the Broncos at 20, and ok if they took Ramczyk or Bolles there.

[VonDoom]

That's your opinion. I think there are 3 tackles that are first round quality. The biggest problem is that two of them only have one year of experience at the D1 level. Both played well during that year though. Ramczyk was solid in both run and pass protection. He played well hurt and had surgery in the offseason. Bolles has great feet, he just needs to improve his strength. He's also 25 years old. Both of those guys have issues, but the talent is there.

Cam Robinson has the potential to be a franchise left tackle. He also fits the mold that the Broncos have been looking for in the offseason. Big, mean and nasty. Watch the game against Myles Garrett, who will be the first pick in this draft. Robinson was really the only tackle that Garrett played that held his own against him.

watch?v=s1Dz6-Xs0Y0

I'd be thrilled if Cam fell to the Broncos at 20, and ok if they took Ramczyk or Bolles there.

I like Robinson a lot and think he would be great value at 20. I like Bolles too and could live with Ramczyk (he's my least favorite of the three). There are a couple of other guys that could be possibilities in the first or second as well. After that, there's not much there but I have to think we address the line early this year, depending on how the board falls.

[BeefStew25]

Who's down for a Vegas roadie

[Joel]

Who's down for a Vegas roadie
Thanks for thinking of me, but now that I'm married I've had to give up sex with roadies (have fun though. :))

[BeefStew25]

Thanks for thinking of me, but now that I'm married I've had to give up sex with roadies (have fun though. :))

Omg Joel

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 40s

#Broncos Elway: "The plan is to stay the course" at quarterback. No talk of Tony Romo. @DenverChannel
http://bit.ly/2mKhS64

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck 3h

#Broncos Joseph on QB situation to @DenverChannel "The more I watch the more comfortable I get with the 2 young kids"

[Denver Native (Carol)]

DENVER — The Broncos are “optimistic” that they will be able to secure a new sponsor for Sports Authority Field at Mile High before the start of the season, President & CEO Joe Ellis said Monday.

“We’re still having ongoing discussions with our agency [WME | IMG]. I’m going back to New York here for a couple of consecutive visits,” Ellis said in a statement from the annual NFL meetings in Arizona. “I’m going to try and catch up with WME | IMG and see how much further they have gotten.”

“I can’t disclose who they are talking with. I’m still optimistic we’re going to get a deal done prior to the season, but no promises because you have to get the right deal,” Ellis said.

Ellis added that they want to find a deal that is good for the Broncos, the community, and one that will allow them to fund future improvements and repairs on the stadium.

rest - http://kdvr.com/2017/03/27/broncos-optimistic-about-new-stadium-sponsor-before-season-begins/

[VonDoom]

I don't remember anything about this at all, but ...

Jon Heath‏Verified account @JonHeathNFL 1h1 hour ago

After new CBA, teams were allowed to loan from future salary cap in 2011 & 2012. Broncos just paid back $4.5M & dropped from $20.6 to $16.1.

Jon Heath‏Verified account @JonHeathNFL 1h1 hour ago

So Broncos now have $16,148,416 in salary cap space after taking a hit for loans in 2011 and 2012. Part of $16.1 goes to rookie class.

Jon Heath‏Verified account @JonHeathNFL 1h1 hour ago

Broncos may not be completely done in free agency, but they have 71 players on roster. If they draft 10, that would leave room for 9 UDFAs.

[NightTrainLayne]

I don't remember anything about this at all, but ...

Jon Heath‏Verified account @JonHeathNFL 1h1 hour ago

After new CBA, teams were allowed to loan from future salary cap in 2011 & 2012. Broncos just paid back $4.5M & dropped from $20.6 to $16.1.

Jon Heath‏Verified account @JonHeathNFL 1h1 hour ago

So Broncos now have $16,148,416 in salary cap space after taking a hit for loans in 2011 and 2012. Part of $16.1 goes to rookie class.

Jon Heath‏Verified account @JonHeathNFL 1h1 hour ago

Broncos may not be completely done in free agency, but they have 71 players on roster. If they draft 10, that would leave room for 9 UDFAs.

Say goodbye to Romo.

[Rick]

Probably eliminates any possible trade for a lineman as well.

I think we generally try and leave a little cap each year for that just in case signing, so with the wiggle room and the rookies we don't really have any space for a big cap number player.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

The Broncos don’t have quite as much salary cap space as was thought.

The NFLPA updated its salary cap report and it shows the Broncos have $16.148 million left in cap space, a $4.5 million drop from the $20.6 million that was listed after Denver’s most recent free agent signings.

Denver’s loss in salary cap space is due to a repayment of an NFL loan that teams were allowed to take in 2011 and 2012. The Broncos took the maximum loan, $3 million in 2011 and $1.5 million in 2012. It’s now time for that loan to be repaid in regards to the salary cap. Those loans came during the uncapped year following the 2011 NFL lockout and the adjustment to the new collective bargaining agreement in the year that followed.

More than half of the NFL teams took out loans during that time. Some took the salary cap hit before the 2017 repayment deadline. The Broncos were one of several teams, including the Patriots, Cowboys, and Saints, to see the loan repayment on their salary cap this spring.

The Broncos have signed five free agents this offseason – guard Ronald Leary, tackle Menelik Watson, defensive linemen Domata Peko and Zach Kerr and outside linebacker Kasim Edebali. They also restructured tackle Donald Stephenson’s contract. Denver will likely need at least $7-10 million to pay their draft picks, leaving it a little less than $10 million in cap space to spend on late free agency moves or trade additions.

The Broncos’ $16.148 million in cap space currently ranks 17th, per the NFLPA’s most recent records.

http://www.denverpost.com/2017/03/28/broncos-lose-4-5-million-2017-salary-cap/

[Davii]

I don't think that drop in money necessarily means we can't sign a Romo or a FA OT, etc. They just have to be creative with the cash, small salary, larger bonus, etc, to spread the cap hit. Keeping in mind that all money paid immediately by way of bonus is spread across the contract and is obviously guaranteed I can easily see a player being ok with making a few million less in salary if it's made up in bonus.

[dogfish]

I don't think that drop in money necessarily means we can't sign a Romo or a FA OT, etc. They just have to be creative with the cash, small salary, larger bonus, etc, to spread the cap hit. Keeping in mind that all money paid immediately by way of bonus is spread across the contract and is obviously guaranteed I can easily see a player being ok with making a few million less in salary if it's made up in bonus.

if they need cap space, they can also free it up by re-structuring somebody like demaryius thomas. . .

[Valar Morghulis]

if they need cap space, they can also free it up by re-structuring somebody like demaryius thomas. . .

Yeah, both him and Talib have a clause in their contracts that I think could free up about ten mil in cap space

[VonDoom]

Yeah, both him and Talib have a clause in their contracts that I think could free up about ten mil in cap space

Can't be Talib. Most of his guaranteed money has been paid already, so the only way to free up any space for him would be to extend him, and I don't think we're doing that.

[dogfish]

Yeah, both him and Talib have a clause in their contracts that I think could free up about ten mil in cap space

i don't know the details. . . but on the Fan yesterday, they were saying we could free up close to 9 mil just by re-structuring DT. . . i take anything they say with a grain of salt without researching it, but i would suffice it to say that we can free up a decent chunk of space if we need it. . . doesn't look like we're going to anyway, IMO. . . things can change, but it looks like jerruh is going to squat on romo until he retires and takes a job in broadcasting. . . maybe we can still make a trade for a vet left tackle at some point, but i believe all those contracts would fit under our current cap. . .

[Denver Native (Carol)]

PHOENIX — There's far more right than wrong with the Broncos' defense. Vance Joseph knows that.

The team's new head coach inherits a unit that is one of the best pass defenses in NFL history, leading the league in consecutive seasons against the pass — and doing so when the aerial game is more prominent than ever before.

But two things went askew last year: the Broncos' work against the run and their performance on the first series of games. This is where their potential for improvement lies — and where Joseph believes he can take an elite defense to new heights.

As Joseph scrutinized last season's game film, he realized the two shortcomings were connected — not by personnel, but by tactics and alignment.

"We've got to help those guys with different looks," Joseph said at the NFL Annual Meeting on Tuesday morning. "When you play a certain front all the time, and an offensive football team has a chance to practice all week, and they show up on Sundays and it looks the same, then they're going to move the ball on you."

rest - http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/How-do-you-make-the-Broncos-elite-defense-better-Vance-Joseph-outlines-his-plan/52bacd5e-6134-4579-a55f-2c512e56087d

[Rick]

I am trying to give this guy a chance but it is a bit ballsy for the guy who oversaw the 30th ranked defense to say we just need to scheme better than the hall of fame defensive guru to improve this defense.

[Hawgdriver]

I am trying to give this guy a chance but it is a bit ballsy for the guy who oversaw the 30th ranked defense to say we just need to scheme better than the hall of fame defensive guru to improve this defense.

We'll see, huh? There's part of me that thinks this team is going to be a 5-11 trainwreck this year, the objective part, but the rock-out-****-out part says to can it and believe.

[Hawgdriver]

Mr. Rock-out notes that the Broncos were probably the 3d-5th best team in the AFC last year, all things considered. The starting QB has a year of reps. The line has to improve. The offense has to improve.

[Poet]

We said everything had to improve last year. It didn't. I'm optimistic about the line, but there is no reason to think that any one player 'has' to improve, let alone an entire unit.

[dogfish]

I am trying to give this guy a chance but it is a bit ballsy for the guy who oversaw the 30th ranked defense to say we just need to scheme better than the hall of fame defensive guru to improve this defense.

well, it takes a lot of balls to be the kind of leader of men this guy is. . .

[Poet]

I'm starting to be scared that he's an idiot. Hawgdriver might have been right.

[Jsteve01]

I'm starting to be scared that he's an idiot. Hawgdriver might have been right.

Yeah I mean there's no doubt either you're dumb or you're an ******* for calling out the guy that you've previously referred to as your mentor and one of the most influential people in your football life. Charismatic people are scary because you can Overlook a bunch of flaws because they get you hyped up when you're in the room with them. That was my concern the entire time during this process was that everybody's excited about Joseph because he's charismatic and remind them of Mike Tomlin and all I knew was that on paper Kyle Shanahan had several very good offensive units including this one which was record-setting. He made a bad Browns offense look a decent and he got Griffin the nFC Rookie of the Year award

[Canmore]

Mr. Rock-out notes that the Broncos were probably the 3d-5th best team in the AFC last year, all things considered. The starting QB has a year of reps. The line has to improve. The offense has to improve.

I said that last year...it didn't.