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Hawgdriver
01-09-2017, 02:23 PM
Siemian: 32/36

CJ Anderson: 46/61
Devonte Booker: 54/61
Justin Forsett: 61/61
Andy Janovich: 6/16

DT: 25/119
Sanders: 14/119
Norwood: 113/119

Virgil Green: 31/67

Stpehenson: 81/81
Okung: 38/81
Garcia: 41/74
Schofield: 51/74
Paradis: 1/40

Saw this at http://in-thinair.com/2017/01/09/orange-overview-january-9-2017/

NightTerror218
01-09-2017, 02:30 PM
Forsett should not be on there for 2 games worth.

A couple bright and whole lot of ugly

Hawgdriver
01-09-2017, 02:34 PM
Forsett should not be on there for 2 games worth.

A couple bright and whole lot of ugly

It could be his entire 2016 including the five games with BAL/DET.

MOtorboat
01-09-2017, 02:43 PM
That's their rank/how many players they ranked, correct?

Northman
01-09-2017, 02:46 PM
Its probably all of the AFCW players so like Forsett ranked 61st out of all the AFCW RB's. At least that is what im feeling is their angle.

MOtorboat
01-09-2017, 02:57 PM
Its probably all of the AFCW players so like Forsett ranked 61st out of all the AFCW RB's. At least that is what im feeling is their angle.

Um. I don't think there are 61 running backs in the AFC West.

Buff
01-09-2017, 03:06 PM
Um. I don't think there are 61 running backs in the AFC West.

North must have waked and baked this morning. :lol: @ 61 RBs in the AFC West.

Northman
01-09-2017, 03:08 PM
North must have waked and baked this morning. :lol: @ 61 RBs in the AFC West.

I am still a little tired. When i read a little from the link they implied they were ranking all players from the AFCW but it didnt quite register to me the numbers. I goofed. It happens.

Buff
01-09-2017, 03:08 PM
Siemian: 32/36

CJ Anderson: 46/61
Devonte Booker: 54/61
Justin Forsett: 61/61
Andy Janovich: 6/16

DT: 25/119
Sanders: 14/119
Norwood: 113/119

Virgil Green: 31/67

Stpehenson: 81/81
Okung: 38/81
Garcia: 41/74
Schofield: 51/74
Paradis: 1/40

Saw this at http://in-thinair.com/2017/01/09/orange-overview-january-9-2017/

The two most surprising things for me:

1.) I knew Stephenson was bad, but I didn't realize he was considered the lowest graded tackle in the league. Lord.
2.) Are we really supposed to believe Paradis is the best/most productive center in the league? I think it shows some of the limitations of these rankings.

Buff
01-09-2017, 03:10 PM
I am still a little tired. When i read a little from the link they implied they were ranking all players from the AFCW but it didnt quite register to me the numbers. I goofed. It happens.

Ay man, I hear ya.

https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder233/500x/63568233.jpg

Hawgdriver
01-09-2017, 03:11 PM
The two most surprising things for me:

1.) I knew Stephenson was bad, but I didn't realize he was considered the lowest graded tackle in the league. Lord.
2.) Are we really supposed to believe Paradis is the best/most productive center in the league? I think it shows some of the limitations of these rankings.

Hard to believe about Paradis, isn't it? A lot of the PFF rankings reflect the eye-test, but that one I would need explained to me.

King87
01-09-2017, 03:13 PM
The two most surprising things for me:

1.) I knew Stephenson was bad, but I didn't realize he was considered the lowest graded tackle in the league. Lord.
2.) Are we really supposed to believe Paradis is the best/most productive center in the league? I think it shows some of the limitations of these rankings.

Okung was passable. I thought Paradis played well, and considering his injuries I thought he was really good for us overall.

Stephenson is the worst, literally? I could buy that. Paradis the best? Eh. Okung when bad is awful, but is a serviceable player. Garcia is on the edge of being shit. Schofield clearly has been cloned and only beats out his weaker versions of himself.

BroncoWave
01-09-2017, 03:14 PM
Paradis was pretty widely praised all season as being by far our best o-linemen. I saw some in the media say he should have been in the pro bowl. Based on that I guess it's not all that shocking he was ranked highly.

Hawgdriver
01-09-2017, 03:18 PM
So Okung didn't earn his big 2017 pay, did he? Is a restructure possible? He seems adequate at the $4m-$6m range.

Buff
01-09-2017, 03:24 PM
Paradis was pretty widely praised all season as being by far our best o-linemen. I saw some in the media say he should have been in the pro bowl. Based on that I guess it's not all that shocking he was ranked highly.

No doubt he was our best and most consistent lineman. But he's still undersized and can get overpowered - so it's hard for me to believe that he's THE most effective center in the league. Not to take away from him being our best OL, which he clearly is.

King87
01-09-2017, 03:33 PM
No doubt he was our best and most consistent lineman. But he's still undersized and can get overpowered - so it's hard for me to believe that he's THE most effective center in the league. Not to take away from him being our best OL, which he clearly is.

At one point Jeff Saturday was considered the best center in the game. He got killed by 3-4 NT's in the way you describe. IDK. You make a compelling case.

GEM
01-09-2017, 04:03 PM
Siemian: 32/36

CJ Anderson: 46/61
Devonte Booker: 54/61
Justin Forsett: 61/61
Andy Janovich: 6/16

DT: 25/119
Sanders: 14/119
Norwood: 113/119

Virgil Green: 31/67

Stpehenson: 81/81
Okung: 38/81
Garcia: 41/74
Schofield: 51/74
Paradis: 1/40

Saw this at http://in-thinair.com/2017/01/09/orange-overview-january-9-2017/

Holy puke my guts out!!!

GEM
01-09-2017, 04:04 PM
The two most surprising things for me:

1.) I knew Stephenson was bad, but I didn't realize he was considered the lowest graded tackle in the league. Lord.
2.) Are we really supposed to believe Paradis is the best/most productive center in the league? I think it shows some of the limitations of these rankings.

Paradis was one of the top ranked players week in and week out according to PFF.

GEM
01-09-2017, 04:05 PM
Paradis was pretty widely praised all season as being by far our best o-linemen. I saw some in the media say he should have been in the pro bowl. Based on that I guess it's not all that shocking he was ranked highly.

Not just our best lineman, one of the best in the league.

pnbronco
01-09-2017, 05:34 PM
Not just our best lineman, one of the best in the league.

I heard the same thing over and over by people that are not Bronco homies like me. He was rated in the top 5 for all linemen not just the C and # 1 a few times by PFF if I remember correctly. I hope his surgery goes well....which is really amazing if you think about it... Being that hurt and still playing at a top level. I'm sure he will miss the heck out of Kubes for understanding where his body was and what he could still bring.

NightTerror218
01-09-2017, 05:49 PM
The two most surprising things for me:

1.) I knew Stephenson was bad, but I didn't realize he was considered the lowest graded tackle in the league. Lord.
2.) Are we really supposed to believe Paradis is the best/most productive center in the league? I think it shows some of the limitations of these rankings.

I heard many talking heads on nfl and espn saying paradis was the biggeat pro bowl snuff this year.

NightTerror218
01-09-2017, 05:53 PM
No doubt he was our best and most consistent lineman. But he's still undersized and can get overpowered - so it's hard for me to believe that he's THE most effective center in the league. Not to take away from him being our best OL, which he clearly is.

Look at what they rate by. Not just stats but situational plays as well.

He may have been blown up a few times but over all he did not give up much pressure or gwt plowed over. He was only called a few timea for penalties. He was always in 2nd level making key blocks on bug running plays. I thought he looked goos but as a whole he could not make up for bad OL. If he makes his block but garcia misses. Or if rb gets chased down from back side. My biggeat issue with ground was bookers lack of patience. Ran i to back of OL constantly.

C are usually the smallest OL.

BroncoWave
01-09-2017, 06:10 PM
Can someone please find Ronnie Hillman's RB ranking from last season. I'm having a hard time imagining it was as bad as the some of the guys in our back field. TIA.

Bronco4ever
01-09-2017, 06:10 PM
Time to drain the swamp (minus Paradis, Sanders, DT, and a sparingly few others).

CoachChaz
01-09-2017, 06:12 PM
Pretty easy to get overpowered and be blown up from time to time when your hip is in the same condition as your great grandfathers.

Jaded
01-09-2017, 10:41 PM
PFF shouldn't be taken as anything close to how each team would grade their players.

Tom Nalen had a great point, PFF has their grades out by Tuesday, so they're grading at minimum 350 players in two days. Grain of salt.

Jaded
01-09-2017, 10:43 PM
Paradis was pretty widely praised all season as being by far our best o-linemen. I saw some in the media say he should have been in the pro bowl. Based on that I guess it's not all that shocking he was ranked highly.

Sell high!

Cugel
01-13-2017, 02:45 PM
The two most surprising things for me:

1.) I knew Stephenson was bad, but I didn't realize he was considered the lowest graded tackle in the league. Lord.
2.) Are we really supposed to believe Paradis is the best/most productive center in the league? I think it shows some of the limitations of these rankings.

Paradis is having off season surgery to both hips. That he could play at all shows a toughness scarcely credible. If I had his hips, I'd retire immediately and take up some job where I could sit in a chair. Paradis isn't the problem. Okung didn't play great, but he's probably better than the alternatives.

Stephenson is gone. They need a new RG. Schofield and Garcia will be kept because they are cheap. They need a new RT and will probably get on in FA.

King87
01-13-2017, 04:05 PM
I see the TS fans are ignoring his ranking.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
01-13-2017, 04:21 PM
I see the TS fans are ignoring his ranking.

:deadhorse:

King87
01-13-2017, 04:26 PM
:deadhorse:

Sorry, when you calmly explain obvious flaws and get roasted for it, sometimes you just have to point out that you were right.

Go away. I hate you.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
01-13-2017, 04:34 PM
Sorry, when you calmly explain obvious flaws and get roasted for it, sometimes you just have to point out that you were right.

Go away. I hate you.


I didn't get worked up until you pierced my heart with calloused words .

My love will never die

I concede he didn't play well. I just didn't agree with you on his potential. that's how I see it.

MOtorboat
01-13-2017, 04:35 PM
Sorry, when you calmly explain obvious flaws and get roasted for it, sometimes you just have to point out that you were right.

Go away. I hate you.

It was the offensive line.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
01-13-2017, 04:35 PM
It was the offensive line.

It was definitely offensive.

King87
01-13-2017, 04:45 PM
It was the offensive line.

My favorite part is when people then point to his completion percentage in this era and use it as a justification for saying he is good.

Remember when people used his stats to 'favorably' compare him to guys from much older eras? That was fun.

BroncoBuckeye73
01-13-2017, 08:30 PM
I think Siemien is a little under ranked but my opinion of him is he will be a stellar back up who can help you win games. Paradis was PFF's top rated center all year and he is the only starting linemen who should be back. These ratings also show the fact that besides the line a viable third option in the passing gane is severly hindering either Lynch or Siemien in the passing game period. Np matter who is playing on the OL if we can not find tha reliable third option opposistion can just blitz mercilessy while really only having to defend DT and Sanders.

pnbronco
01-13-2017, 11:34 PM
I see the TS fans are ignoring his ranking.

I just felt that he was pretty much a rookie. We paid him $538,195..... for me it's really hard to be upset given the fact we really didn't have another choice. Had we paid him Brock money.....$ 12 million this year and knowing we have to give him $ 19 million next...I would probably feel different.

King87
01-13-2017, 11:38 PM
I just felt that he was pretty much a rookie. We paid him $538,195..... for me it's really hard to be upset given the fact we really didn't have another choice. Had we paid him Brock money.....$ 12 million this year and knowing we have to give him $ 19 million next...I would probably feel different.

He was one of the worst QB's in the league last year. As a second year player.

Jsteve01
01-15-2017, 04:58 PM
The two most surprising things for me:

1.) I knew Stephenson was bad, but I didn't realize he was considered the lowest graded tackle in the league. Lord.
2.) Are we really pposed to believe Paradis is the best/most productive center in the league? I think it shows some of the limitations of these rankings.

One thing I learned during my sting in Philly is like him or not if Reid ever decides to let a player walk then you don't want him. I can't ever remember him having a decent player go elsewhere during free agency and play well. Kind of an arbitrary way to evaluate signings but it worked well. Top it off with the fact that the Chiefs replaced him with the highest rated RT in the league in Schwartz and it was even more painful. Elway has missed horribly with most of of his recent O line draftees and signings. That needs to change

Cugel
01-18-2017, 05:46 PM
Siemian: 32/36

CJ Anderson: 46/61
Devonte Booker: 54/61
Justin Forsett: 61/61
Andy Janovich: 6/16

DT: 25/119
Sanders: 14/119
Norwood: 113/119

Virgil Green: 31/67

Stpehenson: 81/81
Okung: 38/81
Garcia: 41/74
Schofield: 51/74
Paradis: 1/40

Saw this at http://in-thinair.com/2017/01/09/orange-overview-january-9-2017/

CJ Anderson was injured, so that's not a fair comparison.

Okung might not be great, but there's nobody better waiting in the wings to take his place, so they will have to re-negotiate his $11 M contract and re-sign him.

They will have to find someone to replace Stephenson because he was just a flat FAIL. Whether they can do that in FA or the draft remains to be seen. This is reportedly the worst draft class for OL in many years, which means that the 1/2 of the NFL currently desperate to improve their OLs will have to search in FA. And that means that even BAD FA OL will get absurd amounts of money from desperate teams. Like Okung. Frankly, if I were Elway, I'd grit my teeth and pay Okung the $11 M this season and try to re-negotiate a shorter deal with him in case it doesn't work out.

Max Garcia is a developmental player who was starting his first season. He wasn't great, but in more of a power blocking scheme he could be better. Same thing is true for Michael Schofield who has managed underachieve his meager draft status. He was a bad fit for a zone blocking scheme, but he might do better in a power attack.

The Broncos also drafted C Connor McGovern in the 5th last year. He didn't see the field and was a really strange pick to begin with because he is a HUGE dude, with great strength, and not much athletic foot speed or agility, which makes him a better fit for a power OL scheme than a ZBS. We could see him get significantly more playing time this year.

Paradis would be OK in any scheme, but he's better suited to the ZBS, since he's about 295 lbs. at his heaviest and he doesn't have a big frame to add a lot of weight easily. If he fully recovers from his 2 hip surgeries this off-season he'll be the starter again.

In short, they might just replace Stephenson and keep all the other guys and try and coach them to be better.

If they can't find a better replacement for Stephenson, they might just keep him as well.

They will probably be unable to draft a starting OL this year, given how bad the draft is for OL - but should add 1 or 2 developmental guys in the 2nd-5th rounds. Maybe they could find a G or RT who fell a bit available when they pick, but probably not in the first round at 20.

They really hurt themselves draft wise by winning that Raiders game. It cost them 4 places in every round of the draft (from 16 to 20)!

Cugel
01-18-2017, 06:03 PM
As for criticizing Elway for these failures, the FAs are really on Kubiak and his staff. And it's not as if there were a lot of better alternatives anyway. For instance, during the SB run, Michael Schofield was horrible at RT, remember? They tried Ty Sambrailo at several spots on the OL, then he got hurt. He's not even expected to crack the starting Lineup this year, which shows what a bust he is.

So, Stephenson might not be great, but they might look around and not find anybody better. Outside of a couple of guys who will command a kings' ransom in FA, there are really not a lot of choices and there are a lot of teams wanting those few FAs.

Look at what improving the Raiders line cost LA:

Austin Howard T, 4 years $30 M.
Rodney Hudson C, 5 years $44.5 M.
Kelechi Osemele G, 5 years $58.5 M.

The Broncos choose to spend their money on defense. Their OL by comparison:

Max Garcia, G: 4 years, $2.6 M.
Russell Okung: 4 year option for $12M per if they renew.
Paradis: exclusive rights FA. This means the Broncos will have to re-sign him prior to FA or else match whatever tender contract he gets from other teams. There will be a lot of other teams if the Broncos let him hit FA.
Ty Sambrailo: 4 years $2.9 M.
Michael Schofield: 4 years, $2.7 M.
Donald Stephenson: 3 years, $14 M, with $10 M guaranteed. His dead cap hit for 2017 would be $6 million, so I bet they keep him and try to get better production out of him. That's doubtful, but the money is already spent and they can't just get out of the contract.