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View Full Version : Broncos' coaching job could be the toughest in football



Denver Native (Carol)
01-06-2017, 01:15 PM
ENGLEWOOD, Colo. -- It might seem a little strange a team with three division titles, two Super Bowl trips and one Super Bowl victory over the past four seasons is poised to employ its third head coach over that span.

John Fox and the Denver Broncos parted ways after a lackluster playoff loss ended the 2014 season -- after Fox’s fourth consecutive AFC West title -- and Gary Kubiak was hired. And Monday, citing health concerns, Kubiak stepped away from coaching after the Broncos’ first playoff miss since 2010.

And the Broncos are now on the interview circuit, as Dave Toub, Kyle Shanahan and Vance Joseph will have the first three opportunities to be Denver's next coach.

But recent events beg the question: Just how tough is it to be the Broncos head coach? Consider: the fan base has purchased every ticket since the AFC-NFL merger in 1970, the franchise has more Super Bowl appearances than losing seasons since Pat Bowlen bought the team in 1984 and Hall of Famer John Elway is chief football decision-maker.

“This is a great place to work, but the expectations are high," Elway said. “Those expectations have been set by Mr. Bowlen a long time ago. Everybody that comes here, whether it’s a coach or a player, understands that the standard is to be able to compete for world championships. Does it add a little bit more? Sure it does. I think if you’re good at what you do, I think you want that challenge."

That is what the new coach has waiting for him, and a candidate will have to convince the Broncos' brass he can handle "that challenge." The expectations won't change.

On the day Kubiak -- one of Elway's closest friends, a former teammate and former coach -- stepped away from his job, Elway reminded one and all he believed the Broncos were poised, with a good offseason and if they hire the “right guy," to get back in the Super Bowl conversation.

So a new coach looking for a honeymoon would be wise to look elsewhere.

rest - http://www.espn.com/blog/denver-broncos/post/_/id/24533/broncos-will-gladly-offer-challenge-to-the-coach-who-embraces-it

Jaded
01-06-2017, 09:20 PM
I wonder if Pete Tebow still thinks his meal ticket was treated unfairly.

dogfish
01-06-2017, 09:47 PM
i would just go ahead and say IS, not could be. . . there's no question john is highly impatient, and is going to hold the HC's feet to the fire. . . i consider it his only real flaw as a GM, but i do worry about it. . . you can't change your coach every couple years if he doesn't win the super bowl. . . i want to think that john understands this, and that fox was a one-time, justified situation-- and that gary stepping down WAS purely about health reasons. . . JFE has said he wants to hire a young coach this time, so hopefully he is ready and willing to be a little patient while a long-term guy develops. . . i know he expects results, but you have to give people some time. . .

underrated29
01-06-2017, 10:00 PM
i would just go ahead and say IS, not could be. . . there's no question john is highly impatient, and is going to hold the HC's feet to the fire. . . i consider it his only real flaw as a GM, but i do worry about it. . . you can't change your coach every couple years if he doesn't win the super bowl. . . i want to think that john understands this, and that fox was a one-time, justified situation-- and that gary stepping down WAS purely about health reasons. . . JFE has said he wants to hire a young coach this time, so hopefully he is ready and willing to be a little patient while a long-term guy develops. . . i know he expects results, but you have to give people some time. . .


I agree and I think John thinks that this team is SB ready if we can just get an offense to move the ball, hold the clock a bit and score more then 16 points. If we didnt have the defense and WRs we do I could see him being more patient but our team is still freaking stacked and with a RT and some better offensive (everything) we will be back to the number 1 seed. The pats imo are not nearly as good as us if we just had a shit offense. Not even an average or good offense. I do not blame him for being impatient and I do think he will give the next HC a long time to do his thing as long as he doesnt pull a mcdaniels and blow shit up and start over.

Canmore
01-07-2017, 12:58 AM
I agree and I think John thinks that this team is SB ready if we can just get an offense to move the ball, hold the clock a bit and score more then 16 points. If we didnt have the defense and WRs we do I could see him being more patient but our team is still freaking stacked and with a RT and some better offensive (everything) we will be back to the number 1 seed. The pats imo are not nearly as good as us if we just had a shit offense. Not even an average or good offense. I do not blame him for being impatient and I do think he will give the next HC a long time to do his thing as long as he doesnt pull a mcdaniels and blow shit up and start over.

Knock on wood.

Broncoknight30
01-07-2017, 10:20 AM
i would just go ahead and say IS, not could be. . . there's no question john is highly impatient, and is going to hold the HC's feet to the fire. . . i consider it his only real flaw as a GM, but i do worry about it. . . you can't change your coach every couple years if he doesn't win the super bowl. . . i want to think that john understands this, and that fox was a one-time, justified situation-- and that gary stepping down WAS purely about health reasons. . . JFE has said he wants to hire a young coach this time, so hopefully he is ready and willing to be a little patient while a long-term guy develops. . . i know he expects results, but you have to give people some time. . .

The simple fact is no one is above criticism, including JE. I will have a severe problem if he ALLOWS an incoming coach to gut the defensive philosophy for a new one. I do not care if Philips was bad at another franchise or another.

This franchise is unique and different from other franchises who have FIRED their coaches cause their franchises were 4 and 12. This is not that. This is a championship franchise with significant pieces IN PLACE. Most shit franchises have a shit defense and that is the reason they are a shit franchise. Not this one. Exact opposite.

Elway is in charge of interviewing and considering how dynamic this defense is, the interview ought to go something like this.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Elway: Hi, so you are interested in coaching this franchise?

Perspective coach: Why yes. Yes I am.

Elway: Ok, great. Have some wonderful news for you. The defensive side of the ball is solid and we are going to keep it the way it is. Cause we won a super bowl with that defense. Although, some improvement may need to be made, we are keeping the defense and its coaching personnel.

Is that a problem?

Perspective coach: Well, I have a different defensive philosophy and even though I see your offense was one of the worst in the league, I want to gut them both and bring my own unproven staff and interrupt the well established comradery that the defense has shared with its staff that garnered your franchise a Lombardi trophy.

Elway: Ok, then. Uhhh, nice meeting you. Don't call us, we will call you.

------------------

I know it is a weak attempt by me at humor. Yes, Elway has displayed some strange impatience. I also have to say that his QB selections in the draft and OL draft picks leave a lot to be desired. Sorry, but passing on Russell Wilson and Kirk Cousins for Osweiler, is on his record. It is what it is. His drafts on the OL have been awful.

Now, if he brings in a new coach that is willing to destroy the championship defense along with needing to get a new offense?

I would start to get a little pissed as a fan. Especially, if we see that defense suffer as a result.

Nomad
01-07-2017, 01:05 PM
"~This is a great place to work, but the expectations are high," Elway said. “Those expectations have been set by Mr. Bowlen a long time ago. Everybody that comes here, whether it’s a coach or a player, understands that the standard is to be able to compete for world championships. Does it add a little bit more? Sure it does. I think if you’re good at what you do, I think you want that challenge."~"

Yep! Thanks for clarifying why fans expect the best out of the Denver BRONCOS. I hear Elway is just spoiled. :ohwell:

Jaded
01-07-2017, 02:54 PM
**** Wilson and Cousins, one is 5-10 and other is overrated.

Jaded
01-07-2017, 02:56 PM
I agree and I think John thinks that this team is SB ready if we can just get an offense to move the ball, hold the clock a bit and score more then 16 points. If we didnt have the defense and WRs we do I could see him being more patient but our team is still freaking stacked and with a RT and some better offensive (everything) we will be back to the number 1 seed. The pats imo are not nearly as good as us if we just had a shit offense. Not even an average or good offense. I do not blame him for being impatient and I do think he will give the next HC a long time to do his thing as long as he doesnt pull a mcdaniels and blow shit up and start over.
High five for having P*triot envy like everyone else on the planet.

King87
01-07-2017, 03:29 PM
**** Wilson and Cousins, one is 5-10 and other is overrated.

Cousins is super overrated and does a little with a lot. He lost the Packers playoff game and couldn't beat up on a bad GB defense. Then this year he starts the year off by throwing bad picks in winnable games and then ends the year the same way.

Wilson is pretty good, but he's a needle in a haystack.


But onto this article - I believe Fox was fired because he's a relaxed guy with no sense of urgency. He still carries on in the very relaxed and almost lackadaisical fashion in Chicago. He's a player's coach in the worst of all ways. He should have been fired the way the team played in that game against the Colts. He's the guy who can get straight A's if he buckles down but is happy to get all B's and sleep. That's fine...if you're a weakwilled loser piece of shit.

Gary Kubiak I do believe he left for health reasons. If migraines rock your world like that (I get them a few times a week) you have a big problem. God bless the man for getting out. I'm sure coaching under Elway only made it more stressful.

I don't think he wants to fire a coach every few years. I think he grabbed John Fox because Fox IS a good coach. I hate him, but he's legitimate. Fox is a good guy to help a team rebound or rebuild. It's a testament to how awful Chicago is that he can't do the same thing there. On another note, he grabbed Kubiak because Kubiak, for all his faults, is a solid coach as well. Clearly he's not the guru he once was, but he is a leader of men. We saw it when he retired. They loved him. He also wasn't going to be so awful that he could sink the team just by being there. But these are stopgap coaches. No one really wants or wanted other guys for a long period of time. Fox's teams hit a wall and never overcome them. Kubiak was always a one trick pony and had underachieving teams.

If you look at other franchises with longterm coaches, they fit the organization to a tee. Pittsburgh doesn't need a brilliant HC. They need a legitimate leader with good, as Dogfish says, contacts across the league so as to have a strong X's and O's staff. I.E. they get the best of both worlds. He also had LeBeau when he got there, which is a good way to start a career.

In Philly, they had a coach who had an offensive plan that he could flex to fit a lot of rosters. He gets a lot out of a mobile QB who looks down the field. Reid is a guy that players respect, too. In both situations, he went to a team with a good front office to find some talent on the defensive side of the ball because, well, if you give Reid a RB/s and a solid Qb, he can make the magic work.

There is a synergy that has to exist. I think a young guy eager to prove himself and who can withstand the pressure of Elway's stare and expectations is the way to go. Now, that does mean Elway will have to keep supplying elite talent. Average and above average teams rarely win the SB. The last one to do that plays in Baltimore. Granted they had a ton of pure luck to get there.

I want it to be Shanahan. I think that is the guy.

Broncoknight30
01-07-2017, 04:07 PM
Just thought of a nightmare scenario that could play out. If the Broncos do not hire shanahan and Philips leaves.

Now imagine both of them hired by the chargers. Not saying they would make this great team, but imo it would be an immediate upgrade.

Facing shanahan and wade Philips twice a year would frustrate me.

Jaded
01-07-2017, 06:28 PM
Phillips is waiting on things to shake out before going to Washington imo, his son coaches there and the personnel fits better than SD. I'd worry more about Phillips joining Satan in San Francisco, although, if Mike Nolan blitzed too much then Phillips wouldn't appeal either.

Shanahan will have his pick of the litter, I'd say SD is a long shot.

Broncoknight30
01-07-2017, 06:48 PM
Phillips is waiting on things to shake out before going to Washington imo, his son coaches there and the personnel fits better than SD. I'd worry more about Phillips joining Satan in San Francisco, although, if Mike Nolan blitzed too much then Phillips wouldn't appeal either.

Shanahan will have his pick of the litter, I'd say SD is a long shot.

I am hoping Philips will be wise enough to see those teams do not have what this defense has. I mean if you are coaching his philosophy, it helps to have all the ingredients you need to run it.

:)

Jaded
01-07-2017, 06:56 PM
I am hoping Philips will be wise enough to see those teams do not have what this defense has. I mean if you are coaching his philosophy, it helps to have all the ingredients you need to run it.

:)
I don't think there's any doubt he'd rather be in Denver than anywhere. Unfortunately it's not up to him.

The Glue Factory
01-09-2017, 10:16 AM
I do think he will give the next HC a long time to do his thing as long as he doesnt pull a mcdaniels and blow shit up and start over.

Let's make something clear. The next HC can't blow up the ship. Only Elway can do that.

Cugel
01-09-2017, 11:48 AM
I agree and I think John thinks that this team is SB ready if we can just get an offense to move the ball, hold the clock a bit and score more then 16 points. If we didnt have the defense and WRs we do I could see him being more patient but our team is still freaking stacked and with a RT and some better offensive (everything) we will be back to the number 1 seed. The pats imo are not nearly as good as us if we just had a shit offense. Not even an average or good offense. I do not blame him for being impatient and I do think he will give the next HC a long time to do his thing as long as he doesnt pull a mcdaniels and blow shit up and start over.

This is a different situation. When the Broncos got Peyton, the idea was that Peyton had a few good years left and they needed to win a SB immediately. But, the Broncos do NOT HAVE an elite QB right now. They will have to develop Lynch (and Siemian to some degree). If Lynch doesn't develop Elway will go back to the draft and take another QB.

He understands this. He's not expecting a team with the worst QB in the division (yes worse than Alex Smith right now), to win the SB. He was hoping against hope that the defense would start a run like last year, but that was never realistic. Never has a team in NFL history won back to back SBs without an elite QB. Tom Brady was the last to do it, preceded by Elway, Troy Aikman, Joe Montana, and Terry Bradshaw. All Hall of Famers. Going back to the '70's there hasn't been a team that won back to back with just defense. Not even a mediocre QB and a great defense. It just doesn't happen and it was a pipe dream to think it could happen twice here.

So, I don't think he will be eager to pull the trigger on his new coach unless the Broncos fail to make the playoffs again. This team is at least good enough to go 11-5 and get a wild card every year. Anything more than that requires you to travel to Pittsburgh or New England and beat Tom Brady or Ben Roethlisberger on the road. And that will require an elite QB, not just a great defense. You saw Aaron Rogers pick apart the Giants great defensive secondary yesterday. That's what great QBs do.

But, unless Paxton Lynch becomes a top 10 QB in this league the Broncos aren't going to any more SBs any time soon. Not while the AFC has much better QBs like Roethlisberger, Brady and Andrew Luck (who remember beat the 12-4 Broncos in the playoffs despite Indy being a quite mediocre team). Elway has to know that. He's going to judge things by whether there seems to be progress towards his goal.

Broncoknight30
01-09-2017, 02:03 PM
This is a different situation. When the Broncos got Peyton, the idea was that Peyton had a few good years left and they needed to win a SB immediately. But, the Broncos do NOT HAVE an elite QB right now. They will have to develop Lynch (and Siemian to some degree). If Lynch doesn't develop Elway will go back to the draft and take another QB.

He understands this. He's not expecting a team with the worst QB in the division (yes worse than Alex Smith right now), to win the SB. He was hoping against hope that the defense would start a run like last year, but that was never realistic. Never has a team in NFL history won back to back SBs without an elite QB. Tom Brady was the last to do it, preceded by Elway, Troy Aikman, Joe Montana, and Terry Bradshaw. All Hall of Famers. Going back to the '70's there hasn't been a team that won back to back with just defense. Not even a mediocre QB and a great defense. It just doesn't happen and it was a pipe dream to think it could happen twice here.

So, I don't think he will be eager to pull the trigger on his new coach unless the Broncos fail to make the playoffs again. This team is at least good enough to go 11-5 and get a wild card every year. Anything more than that requires you to travel to Pittsburgh or New England and beat Tom Brady or Ben Roethlisberger on the road. And that will require an elite QB, not just a great defense. You saw Aaron Rogers pick apart the Giants great defensive secondary yesterday. That's what great QBs do.

But, unless Paxton Lynch becomes a top 10 QB in this league the Broncos aren't going to any more SBs any time soon. Not while the AFC has much better QBs like Roethlisberger, Brady and Andrew Luck (who remember beat the 12-4 Broncos in the playoffs despite Indy being a quite mediocre team). Elway has to know that. He's going to judge things by whether there seems to be progress towards his goal.

The thing is Peyton was far from elite in his last year. I know we have been over this, but it is the absolute truth. He was far from elite. What the Broncos did borders on astonishing, but when you really look at the facts it should not be.

Even the most elite QBs all through out history (even recent history) get it done with an elite defense.

Lets go over them (recent QBs.)

Brady's first 3 SBs he had absolute elite defenses. Then he went on a 10 year span 2004-2014 where he did not have any. Then in 2014 the Pats had their best defense in like 6 years.

Brees had a SB title. Look at how well the Saints defense was in 2009.

Rodgers. Had a SB title, and the Packers defense that year was I think the top defense if not close to it.

Manning, and the other Manning.

Go back to Montana or Staubach, or Bradshaw. You see anything in common? It does not necessarily take a GREAT QB, but just about every SB winning team had a solid to great defense.