MLB 2017 Thread

[MOtorboat]

The pitchers and catchers for the Cleveland Indians and New York Mets report in 38 days.

Who's ready for some "he's in the best shape of his life!" stories!?!

[weazel]

Edwin was introduced in Cleveland today, apparently his contract has an attendance bonus included. I've not heard of that before.

[MOtorboat]

The best thing that happened all offseason:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWVdJvAcOoU

[weazel]

yeah thats too bad, I was really hoping someone would sign that guy. Now I'm scared he will sign a 1 year contract with the Jays.

[MOtorboat]

yeah thats too bad, I was really hoping someone would sign that guy. Now I'm scared he will sign a 1 year contract with the Jays.

I didn't realize its the last year a team can pick up a first rounder as compensation for a free agent. Apparently that's going away next year (later compensation than first round). Lots of the first round tendered players will still be left hanging out to dry this year.

[weazel]

yeah, thats why I think the Jays end up signing him for 1 year. They will wait as long as possible because they definitely want that pick, but if he doesn't sign, they will sign him to a "show me" deal.

[MOtorboat]

Rockies going hard after relievers. That's probably a good thing. Until Coors strikes (hopefully it won't).

[slim]

If they don't go all in on pitching, they are doing it wrong.

[MOtorboat]

If they don't go all in on pitching, they are doing it wrong.

And yet, this bullpen push is fairly new...

[slim]

And yet, this bullpen push is fairly new...

They went after quite a few last year, just the wrong few.

[MOtorboat]

They went after quite a few last year, just the wrong few.

I feel like Dunn and Greg Holland (rumored to be in talks) are better than Qualls and Motte.

[slim]

I feel like Dunn and Greg Holland (rumored to be in talks) are better than Qualls and Motte.

I hope so!

[MOtorboat]

I hope so!

One can hope. Spring is coming.

[slim]

One can hope. Spring is coming.

I am going to make time this year to take lil fatass to Salt River fields. Tax returns be damned.

[MOtorboat]

I am going to make time this year to take lil fatass to Salt River fields. Tax returns be damned.

You're a good man, slim.

[CoachChaz]

The best thing that happened all offseason:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWVdJvAcOoU

Gotta say i was pleased to jear this.

[MOtorboat]

Relayed from Eno Sarris of The Sleeper and the Bust podcast at Fangraphs:

Bruce Bochy was asked at the winter meetings about Matt Cain in the starting lineup, he replied to the writer asking the question, "How many years do we have left on his deal?"

Boom.

[MOtorboat]

Thirty-two days.

[Dapper Dan]

Edwin was introduced in Cleveland today, apparently his contract has an attendance bonus included. I've not heard of that before.

I like Edwin. I hope the Indians do well.

[weazel]

Rumor is the Indians are talking to Jose Bautista as well

[MOtorboat]

Rumor is the Indians are talking to Jose Bautista as well

Ugh. Facing him 19 times. No thanks.

[weazel]

Ugh. Facing him 19 times. No thanks.

I hope they sign him quickly, Would be nice for the Jays to get that pick and not feel they need to sign him if nobody else does

[MOtorboat]

It's a bear suit, Joel.

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/4/9/4/151535494/092415_kc_duffy_bear_costume_med_a7le4zqt.gif

5 year extension signed.

[weazel]

well it looks like Jays took the bait. Bautista 1 year with mutual option on second.

[Slick]

Tim Raines made the HOF. Good for him. I remember going to see him play when he was a Denver Bear in the greatest stadium ever built.

[weazel]

Tim freaking Raines!

[MOtorboat]

An interesting discussion on the era of WAR vs. the Hall of Fame:

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/18493610/as-snubs-show-war-carry-cooperstown

[Buff]

For MO:

https://twitter.com/HammerFox2/status/822913323251466240

[MOtorboat]

For MO:

https://twitter.com/HammerFox2/status/822913323251466240

It begins!

[WTE]

MLB Commissioner Rob Manfred has come down hard on the St. Louis Cardinals for their heinous cheating scandal that never got discussed enough as it should have. The Cardinals have to fork over their first and second pick of the 2017 draft to the Astros, picks numbers 56 and 75 and also have to pay the Astros 2 million dollars.

Interesting punishment in that the Astros get something in return of the Cardinals hacking into their computers.

[MOtorboat]

MLB Commissioner Rob Manfred has come down hard on the St. Louis Cardinals for their heinous cheating scandal that never got discussed enough as it should have. The Cardinals have to fork over their first and second pick of the 2017 draft to the Astros, picks numbers 56 and 75 and also have to pay the Astros 2 million dollars.

Interesting punishment in that the Astros get something in return of the Cardinals hacking into their computers.

It never got discussed so much that it made it to general news networks!

[WTE]

It never got discussed so much that it made it to general news networks!

Did all three major networks open their nightly news with it? I don't think so.

[MOtorboat]

Did all three major networks open their nightly news with it? I don't think so.

Oh, the poor, poor wittle Patriots.

:rolleyes:

[WTE]

Oh, the poor, poor wittle Patriots.

:rolleyes:

It wasn't discussed much here either.

[MOtorboat]

It wasn't discussed much here either.

Yes, it's shocking that a football message board didn't talk about baseball, especially two teams that have no fans posting here. Totally shocking development.

[WTE]

Yes, it's shocking that a football message board didn't talk about baseball, especially two teams that have no fans posting here. Totally shocking development.

This "football" message board talks about plenty of things other than football. Joe and I just had a very pleasant discussion about painting.

[MOtorboat]

This "football" message board talks about plenty of things other than football. Joe and I just had a very pleasant discussion about painting.

I saw that. We missed this one. Oops.

[MOtorboat]

The Royals are going to strike out a lot.

[Hawgdriver]

The Royals are going to strike out a lot.

Maybe they could bone up on some pua tech (http://seductioncommunity.com/)?

[MOtorboat]

Maybe they could bone up on some pua tech (http://seductioncommunity.com/)?

I don't think that's going to help.

[Hawgdriver]

Lost cause, then.

[MOtorboat]

Joey Votto has a .425 career OBP. .425!

[MOtorboat]

Pecota projections out, some teams who I know people follow:

Colorado: 73-89
Royals: 70-92
Orioles: 71-91
Reds: 72-90
Blue Jays: 80-82

[CoachChaz]

Pecota projections out, some teams who I know people follow:

Colorado: 73-89
Royals: 70-92
Orioles: 71-91
Reds: 72-90
Blue Jays: 80-82

Pecota has had Baltimore under .500 the past 5 seasons. All we did in the meantime is end up the winningest team in the A.L. over that period. Not saying we'll do it again, but I never take Pecota seriously.

[MOtorboat]

Matt Weiters still doesn't have a team...weird free agency period this year.

[MOtorboat]

Christian Colon just told 610 in Kansas City he's in the best shape of his life.

It is time.

[MOtorboat]

Hawg might appreciate this article from Ben Lindburgh at the Ringer: https://theringer.com/mlb-cardinals-astros-hacking-scandal-front-office-secrets-144dbe8fac32#.sffgpa7z0

[MOtorboat]

Braves have a weird/interesting lineup. I forgot about Matt Kemp. Potential lineup:

CF-Ender Inciarte
SS-Dansby Swanson
1B-Freddie Freeman
LF-Matt Kemp
RF-Nick Markakis
C-Tyler Flowers
3B-Adonis Garcia/Jace Peterson
2B-Brandon Phillips

[Buff]

Braves have a weird/interesting lineup. I forgot about Matt Kemp. Potential lineup:

CF-Ender Inciarte
SS-Dansby Swanson
1B-Freddie Freeman
LF-Matt Kemp
RF-Nick Markakis
C-Tyler Flowers
3B-Adonis Garcia/Jace Peterson
2B-Brandon Phillips

There is nothing interesting about this lineup.

[MOtorboat]

There is nothing interesting about this lineup.

I think I might remove my House of Cards salute and spoil some shit for you.

[Buff]

I think I might remove my House of Cards salute and spoil some shit for you.

Well c'mon - I'm as excited about baseball season as anybody... But that's a boring ******* lineup by any standards.

[MOtorboat]

Well c'mon - I'm as excited about baseball season as anybody... But that's a boring ******* lineup by any standards.

Inciarte, Swanson, Freeman should be exciting enough at the top of the lineup. If Kemp and Phillips have bounce-back/one-last-hurrah type of seasons, this could be a really good lineup and make the NL East a little interesting, no?

[Buff]

Inciarte, Swanson, Freeman should be exciting enough at the top of the lineup. If Kemp and Phillips have bounce-back/one-last-hurrah type of seasons, this could be a really good lineup and make the NL East a little interesting, no?

Ok fine - it's not the dumpster fire lineup they ran out there last year... But Inciarte underwhelmed and I don't think Kemp and Phillips are going to suddenly bounce back. If the stars aligned it could be interesting, but I think it's more likely that everyone not named Freeman under-performs expectations.

[MOtorboat]

Ok fine - it's not the dumpster fire lineup they ran out there last year... But Inciarte underwhelmed and I don't think Kemp and Phillips are going to suddenly bounce back. If the stars aligned it could be interesting, but I think it's more likely that everyone not named Freeman under-performs expectations.

At least give me Dansby Swanson...

[Buff]

At least give me Dansby Swanson...

He's gonna be good. That Shelby Miller deal might go down as an all time bad one.

[MOtorboat]

He's gonna be good. That Shelby Miller deal might go down as an all time bad one.

The Diamondbacks' moves the last couple of seasons have been atrocious. Shelby Miller has some potential, but they traded three guys including Swanson, who along with Carlos Correa is as close to a sure-fire star prospect as we've had in the last five years. It was baffling.

[FanInAZ]

The Diamondbacks' moves the last couple of seasons have been atrocious. Shelby Miller has some potential, but they traded three guys including Swanson, who along with Carlos Correa is as close to a sure-fire star prospect as we've had in the last five years. It was baffling.

At least their pre-season propaganda campaign last year was 1st rate. It gave us something to poke fun of as their season started imploding on opening day.

[Poet]

Hey Mo, who is the best pitcher in baseball?

[MOtorboat]

Hey Mo, who is the best pitcher in baseball?

Clayton Kershaw.

Please don't ask again.

[Poet]

Clayton Kershaw.

Please don't ask again.

Isn't he trash in the playoffs, though?

Holy shit outside of his rookie year he's never had an era that was in the 3.00's...

[chazoe60]

Clayton Kershaw.

Please don't ask again.

I agree. I also really like Max Scherzer and Mad Bum a lot as well.

[Poet]

I agree. I also really like Max Scherzer and Mad Bum a lot as well.

Who is the best....actually...

Would you and Mo, if you were so kind, list your opinion on the top players at each position? Feel free to list multiple guys who have claims to it if you want to. I would find that most helpful.

[chazoe60]

SP- Kershaw and Scherzer
C-perez/posey
1B-goldschmidt/Cabrera
2B-Altuve (I want to give special mention to my favorite player in the world right now too and that's DJ Lemahieu who won a batting title and plays gold glove defense)
SS-Correa
3B-Arenado
OF-Trout, Harper & Stanton

[MOtorboat]

Who is the best....actually...

Would you and Mo, if you were so kind, list your opinion on the top players at each position? Feel free to list multiple guys who have claims to it if you want to. I would find that most helpful.

P - Clayton Kershaw
C - Buster Posey
1B - Miguel Cabrera, Paul Goldschmidt
2B - Jose Altuve
SS - Francisco Lindor, Carlos Correa
3B - Nolan Arenado, Kris Bryant, Manny Machado
LF - Ryan Braun, Yoenis Cespedes
CF - Mike Trout
RF - Giancarlo Stanton, Bryce Harper

[MOtorboat]

SP- Kershaw and Scherzer
C-perez/posey
1B-goldschmidt/Cabrera
2B-Altuve (I want to give special mention to my favorite player in the world right now too and that's DJ Lemahieu who won a batting title and plays gold glove defense)
SS-Correa
3B-Arenado
OF-Trout, Harper & Stanton

I appreciate the Perez love, but I don't think he can holds Buster's jock. Posey is amazing.

[MOtorboat]

Cool statistical vs. intangible debate about Eric Hosmer and his value, especially in terms of the potential of a 10-year contract like he and Scott Boras want. (For the record, this has me on the fence, because I love the guy, but they're right, you can't argue with the statistics).

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/how-to-rationalize-an-eric-hosmer-mega-contract/

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/eric-hosmer-is-an-historical-anomaly/

[Buff]

Have my fantasy baseball draft tonight. Four keepers: Nolan Arenado, Max Scherzer, Brian Dozier and JD Martinez. Was torn on whether I should keep Wil Myers over Martinez, I think Myers has more upside but Martinez is more of a sure thing.

Any prospects that I need to be aware of or general words of wisdom?

[weazel]

Tebow

[chazoe60]

Have my fantasy baseball draft tonight. Four keepers: Nolan Arenado, Max Scherzer, Brian Dozier and JD Martinez. Was torn on whether I should keep Wil Myers over Martinez, I think Myers has more upside but Martinez is more of a sure thing.

Any prospects that I need to be aware of or general words of wisdom?

Mike Trout and Bryce Harper are two sleepers to keep your eyes on.

[Buff]

Tebow


Mike Trout and Bryce Harper are two sleepers to keep your eyes on.

You guys are a tremendous help. Reminds me of my "Tebow's God Squad" fantasy football team from a few years ago. Might be worth drafting him just to resurrect (pun intended) that name.

I'm wondering if I should try to trade Scherzer this year. I've had a nice long run with him as a keeper. He's 32 and bound to start to show signs of decline - might be the time to sell high. Or he might have 2-3 more ace-like seasons in him.

[MOtorboat]

Have my fantasy baseball draft tonight. Four keepers: Nolan Arenado, Max Scherzer, Brian Dozier and JD Martinez. Was torn on whether I should keep Wil Myers over Martinez, I think Myers has more upside but Martinez is more of a sure thing.

Any prospects that I need to be aware of or general words of wisdom?

Four was your max keepers? Also, how many teams in said league and how many players per roster? Two catcher league and how many starting/relief pitchers?

Sorry for all the question, I promise serious answers.

[WTE]

Have my fantasy baseball draft tonight. Four keepers: Nolan Arenado, Max Scherzer, Brian Dozier and JD Martinez. Was torn on whether I should keep Wil Myers over Martinez, I think Myers has more upside but Martinez is more of a sure thing.

Any prospects that I need to be aware of or general words of wisdom?

Not sure if Andrew Benintendi is still considered a prospect but I would try to get him. Red Sox are considering batting him 3rd this year.

[Buff]

Four was your max keepers? Also, how many teams in said league and how many players per roster? Two catcher league and how many starting/relief pitchers?

Sorry for all the question, I promise serious answers.

Yes, we could only keep 4. 20 team league. 21 slots per team. 4 SP slots, 3 RP slots, 3 OF, 1 utility. Single catcher. H2H by category.

[chazoe60]

Okay Buff, what about Dansby Swanson? David Dahl is my Homer pick. He's gonna be surrounded by one of the better lineups in baseball and he showed a ton of promise last season. He is injured right now but that might just make him slip in your draft and he could be a good value pick.

[Buff]

Okay Buff, what about Dansby Swanson? David Dahl is my Homer pick. He's gonna be surrounded by one of the better lineups in baseball and he showed a ton of promise last season. He is injured right now but that might just make him slip in your draft and he could be a good value pick.

Swanson is a good one, but he's going to get snatched up quickly. Dahl is in the same boat - he'll go early because of some of his success last year. But those are guys I like to target - younger, high upside guys as opposed to older veterans who are on the decline. In a 20 team league we get waaay down to the bottom of the barrel and so usually that's where you can separate yourself if you nab a couple high upside prospects in the later rounds.

[MOtorboat]

Yes, we could only keep 4. 20 team league. 21 slots per team. 4 SP slots, 3 RP slots, 3 OF, 1 utility. Single catcher. H2H by category.

I've always been comfortable waiting on pitching, especially if I had a Scherzer to head my staff. I tend to stream a little bit instead of going after the top guys early. Just a personal preference, especially in a weekly head to head, where you probably want a few more starts on your team than you plan to play each week in case of bad matchups, like someone at Coors or Arizona, or a borderline guy pitching in San Diego for a night. Like I said, just a personal preference.

As far as prospects, in a league like that, I expect Benentendi to probably already be a keeper, but if he's not, go after him. Hunter Renfroe in San Diego comes to mind and Robert Gsellman with the Mets.

Some cheap power, Aaron Judge, Yankees, Eric Thames, Brewers.

I'll keep thinking this afternoon. That's a deep league, some of those guys may be rostered already.

[MOtorboat]

Bregman with the Astros.

[Buff]

I've always been comfortable waiting on pitching, especially if I had a Scherzer to head my staff. I tend to stream a little bit instead of going after the top guys early. Just a personal preference, especially in a weekly head to head, where you probably want a few more starts on your team than you plan to play each week in case of bad matchups, like someone at Coors or Arizona, or a borderline guy pitching in San Diego for a night. Like I said, just a personal preference.

As far as prospects, in a league like that, I expect Benentendi to probably already be a keeper, but if he's not, go after him. Hunter Renfroe in San Diego comes to mind and Robert Gsellman with the Mets.

Some cheap power, Aaron Judge, Yankees, Eric Thames, Brewers.

I'll keep thinking this afternoon. That's a deep league, some of those guys may be rostered already.

Thanks - usually those guys aren't keepers because with only 4 it's hard to take a chance on the really young guys. I'm with you on streaming - I've typically held off on pitching too. Interestingly, we don't have a cap on transactions, so last year the streaming got out of control where guys would stream like 4 pitchers per day and sacrifice their quality categories to win the volume categories. So this year you can only start up to 8 starters per week, which I wonder if it's going to place a little more emphasis on quality pitching.

[MOtorboat]

Thanks - usually those guys aren't keepers because with only 4 it's hard to take a chance on the really young guys. I'm with you on streaming - I've typically held off on pitching too. Interestingly, we don't have a cap on transactions, so last year the streaming got out of control where guys would stream like 4 pitchers per day and sacrifice their quality categories to win the volume categories. So this year you can only start up to 8 starters per week, which I wonder if it's going to place a little more emphasis on quality pitching.

My league did that several years ago. Just takes some planning, but I stream mostly, and if their ace gets blown up in a start, I can win the pitching categories that week, so I'll just keep my streaming philosophy. You never know when Collin McHugh might throw a 7 inning, 1 run, 10K night or something like that.

Dan Vogelbach is a guy to keep an eye on in Seattle and Peter O'Brien for the Royals. Cheap power, but depends on playing time.

[chazoe60]

Hey Buff, this Bregman kid playing for the USA in the WBC might be worth looking into.

Edit: I see MO already mentioned him.

[chazoe60]

Just saw Puig get tossed from a game, you know he's really starting to mature.

[weazel]

Jays extended Sanchez with the league minimum... he gonna be gone as soon as he can.

[MOtorboat]

I like Sanchez.

[weazel]

I like Sanchez.

yes so do I. They couldn't have gave him a bump? I get he's young but he's their ******* #1

[MOtorboat]

yes so do I. They couldn't have gave him a bump? I get he's young but he's their ******* #1

I haven't looked at any baseball headlines this morning. Was it an arbitration settlement? It's possible Sanchez isn't even arb eligible yet, and if that's the case, this wouldn't be all that unusual.

I'd argue Stroman is the 1, but I see your point.

[weazel]

I haven't looked at any baseball headlines this morning. Was it an arbitration settlement? It's possible Sanchez isn't even arb eligible yet, and if that's the case, this wouldn't be all that unusual.

I'd argue Stroman is the 1, but I see your point.

no he's not arbitration eligible until next season. He just picked up Boras as his agent, he's gone as soon as he can leave.

I think Stroman will be 3 or 4

Sanchez
Happ
Stroman
Estrada
Liriano

But Stroman and Estrada could flip

[MOtorboat]

I did not realize Stroman's 2016 was that mediocre.

[weazel]

I did not realize Stroman's 2016 was that mediocre.

he's a little too emotional, that should change as he matures but who knows.

[Poet]

Go Dodgers. **** the Nationals!

[MOtorboat]

Go Dodgers. **** the Nationals!

Yeesh.

[Poet]

Yeesh.

Mo, check my law school thread, I'm hurting. Go Dodgers!

[MOtorboat]

Mo, check my law school thread, I'm hurting. Go Dodgers!

I saw. I feel like the Dodgers will break your heart.

[Poet]

I saw. I feel like the Dodgers will break your heart.

No one wants me, man. I have no home. Except here. Here is my home.

[MOtorboat]

No one wants me, man. I have no home. Except here. Here is my home.

You'll get in somewhere.

[FanInAZ]

I saw. I feel like the Dodgers will break your heart.

He was born to have his heart broken by every team he roots for. If I'm not mistaken, he became a Broncos fan after we won the SB. Look at the curse he brought on to our team since. :tsk:

[Poet]

He was born to have his heart broken by every team he roots for. If I'm not mistaken, he became a Broncos fan after we won the SB. Look at the curse he brought on to our team since. :tsk:

This is really mean.

I don't like you anymore.

[chazoe60]

The Shining and Full Metal Jacket are my two favorite Kubrick flicks.

[MOtorboat]

The Shining and Full Metal Jacket are my two favorite Kubrick flicks.

Is this a metaphor for the Rockies' last 10 seasons?

[chazoe60]

Is this a metaphor for the Rockies' last 10 seasons?

:laugh::laugh: what happened? Could have sworn I was in the movie thread.

[MOtorboat]

:laugh::laugh: what happened? Could have sworn I was in the movie thread.

I stand by my question.

[Poet]

Mo...why do you hate the Dodgers?

[MOtorboat]

Mo...why do you hate the Dodgers?

Hate is a strong word. That said, they are a division rival of the Rockies.

That also said, I absolutely love watching Kershaw and I have a soft spot for the Giants, and I don't really know why.

[chazoe60]

Hate is a strong word. That said, they are a division rival of the Rockies.

That also said, I absolutely love watching Kershaw and I have a soft spot for the Giants, and I don't really know why.

I'm in the same boat. I used to really hate the Giants but I think it was more about Linsicum and his constant bitching about the humidor. Buster Posey, as good as he is bugs me for some reason. I think it's because of the blocking the plate rule I just can't shake the feeling that he's soft and catchers should never be soft.

I absolutely love Hunter Pence and Mad Bum though. I also have a growing affinity for Brandon Crawford.

Now that Vin retired Kershaw is the only redeeming quality left in that organization. Their fans are the worst too. Most of their fans just like the LA logo they're not really even baseball fans. LA is a shit sports town.

[Poet]

Sounds the Dodgers really are the team for me.

[MOtorboat]

I'm in the same boat. I used to really hate the Giants but I think it was more about Linsicum and his constant bitching about the humidor. Buster Posey, as good as he is bugs me for some reason. I think it's because of the blocking the plate rule I just can't shake the feeling that he's soft and catchers should never be soft.

I absolutely love Hunter Pence and Mad Bum though. I also have a growing affinity for Brandon Crawford.

Now that Vin retired Kershaw is the only redeeming quality left in that organization. Their fans are the worst too. Most of their fans just like the LA logo they're not really even baseball fans. LA is a shit sports town.

I probably woke up my neighbors last night when Crawford hit the gapper in the ninth against Puerto Rico. I like Posey. I just like the team they've assembled and how they play to the ballpark so well.

[MOtorboat]

Mo...why do you hate the Dodgers?

It is better than the Nationals. I genuinely don't like some of their players and it starts with Harper.

[chazoe60]

I probably woke up my neighbors last night when Crawford hit the gapper in the ninth against Puerto Rico. I like Posey. I just like the team they've assembled and how they play to the ballpark so well.

I completely acknowledge that my disdain for Posey is irrational, but I just can't shake it.

King, go ahead and become a Dodgers fan it will complete your transformation to douche bag.

[Poet]

I completely acknowledge that my disdain for Posey is irrational, but I just can't shake it.

King, go ahead and become a Dodgers fan it will complete your transformation to douche bag.

If it makes it any better, I'd never live in LA, so that's not the attraction. It's either LA or The Yankees.

[MOtorboat]

Stanton!

[chazoe60]

Adam Jones, WOW!

[MOtorboat]

10360

[Hawgdriver]

Adam Jones, WOW!

At least the Mariners still have Kyle Seager.

[chazoe60]

Usa! Usa! Usa!

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

:laugh::laugh: what happened? Could have sworn I was in the movie thread.
This isn't the first time you've walked in the wrong door. How many times have you walked into the women's bathroom at the airport? (Not that I speak from experience)

[Dapper Dan]

Dang. I just now noticed Matt Wieters is a National and not an Oriole anymore. I'm glad I didn't get that jersey.

[chazoe60]

I hope this doesn't mess with Nolan's head. He has been awful at the plate in the WBC.

[Hawgdriver]

I love listening to baseball radio broadcasts

[chazoe60]

I love listening to baseball radio broadcasts

I do too. It is easily the best radio sport. Football is okay too. Basketball is basically unlistenable on the radio, but it's unwatchable on TV also so it fits.

[Poet]

The NBA is awesome. Get out of here!

[chazoe60]

The NBA is awesome. Get out of here!

The NBA is garbage.

[Poet]

You're just trying to stop me from being a baseball fan at this point. You monster.

[chazoe60]

you're just trying to stop me from being a baseball fan at this point. You monster.

mlb >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>nba

[Hawgdriver]

I do too. It is easily the best radio sport. Football is okay too. Basketball is basically unlistenable on the radio, but it's unwatchable on TV also so it fits.

There is a guy that does play-by-play on the Denver Nuggets named Koz. He brought so much energy to the broadcast it didn't really matter what the sport was. Not sure if he's still doing them, probably is.

[Poet]

mlb >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>nba

Bully.

[MOtorboat]

There is a guy that does play-by-play on the Denver Nuggets named Koz. He brought so much energy to the broadcast it didn't really matter what the sport was. Not sure if he's still doing them, probably is.

He is. Jason Kosmicki.

[Hawgdriver]

After college, Koz landed radio stints in Eau Claire, WI (where on his first week he did play-by-play for a curling tournament),

I want to hear this.

[chazoe60]

Woo-hoo, USA wins! Good job boys.



Nolan with the assist for the last out and he got two hits in his last two at bats.

[MOtorboat]

:2thumbs:

[ShaneFalco]

Cubs Cards

2 outs bottom of the 9th, bases loaded. Tie game.

[ShaneFalco]

Ballgame cards!

[Poet]

Oh god, I forgot you root for that trash

[Poet]

When Pujols left they flooded twitter and the comments sections on articles about how much he not only sucked, but how he would be mowing their lawns, was an illegal, etc.

When that outfielder left two years ago they flooded twitter with how he was (insert racial slurs). They are the worst fans in baseball.

[MOtorboat]

http://www.newyorker.com/culture/photo-booth/the-dream-chasers-of-pro-baseball?mbid=social_twitter

[ShaneFalco]

When Pujols left they flooded twitter and the comments sections on articles about how much he not only sucked, but how he would be mowing their lawns, was an illegal, etc.

When that outfielder left two years ago they flooded twitter with how he was (insert racial slurs). They are the worst fans in baseball.
best fans in baseball

[Dapper Dan]

Member that time STL cheated the Astros?

[Dapper Dan]

10416

[MOtorboat]

Trumbo walk-off in extras. I love this game.

[ShaneFalco]

Member that time STL cheated the Astros?

oh yea the organization was really behind that!

:lol:

[Davii]

Mo, do you enjoy opening day of MLB or NFL more?

[MOtorboat]

Mo, do you enjoy opening day of MLB or NFL more?

MLB, by far.

[Poet]

best fans in baseball

Worst fans in baseball - it's a largely racist and ignorant fan base.

And they cheated the Astros. Tony LaRussa was a drunken piece of shit with ties to the steroids proliferation in the MLB, too.

[WTE]

Member that time STL cheated the Astros?

1,000 times worse than any cheating scandal ever and largely under reported by main stream media and sports media as well. I will never forget.

[Poet]

1,000 times worse than any cheating scandal ever and largely under reported by main stream media and sports media as well. I will never forget.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/jul/18/st-louis-cardinals-hacking-houston-astros-jail-sentence

Prison time.

[MOtorboat]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/jul/18/st-louis-cardinals-hacking-houston-astros-jail-sentence

Prison time.

How'd you find that article? I hear it wasn't reported.

[Poet]

How'd you find that article? I hear it wasn't reported.

It didn't make the big news and media rounds as it should have. In that respect, I agree with WTE.

[MOtorboat]

It didn't make the big news and media rounds as it should have. In that respect, I agree with WTE.

Sure it did, just because it didn't stay there for days doesn't mean it was under reported. Football always gets more media attention, bigger ratings and more money. Had the New England Patriots wanted less attention, they shouldn't have cheated in a sport that owns a day of the week.

[ShaneFalco]

1,000 times worse than any cheating scandal ever and largely under reported by main stream media and sports media as well. I will never forget.

bahahahahahahaha

[Poet]

Anyone remember when Heyward returned to STL as a Cub and he spent the entire time on defense being called racial slurs?

Or how they responded to his views on a recent controversial policy?

The bigotry of that fanbase is never talked about - instead we idolize them as the 'best fans in baseball' because they're passionate. The irony is that we talk about them as a 'small market' team when they have a competitive roster, spend money, are one of the most profitable teams in the league, and a large fan base.

The whole franchise is a damn fraud.

Molina is a knock off of Johnny Bench, btw.

[Poet]

Sure it did, just because it didn't stay there for days doesn't mean it was under reported. Football always gets more media attention, bigger ratings and more money. Had the New England Patriots wanted less attention, they shouldn't have cheated in a sport that owns a day of the week.

It was a massive scandal that stayed in the cycle for three days. It was felonious. A scandal that impacted the financials and competition of a rival team.

Football being more massive in popularity doesn't negate the fact that the cardinals scandal wasn't as big of a deal as it should be.

[ShaneFalco]

lol

[ShaneFalco]

It was a massive scandal that stayed in the cycle for three days. It was felonious. A scandal that impacted the financials and competition of a rival team.

Football being more massive in popularity doesn't negate the fact that the cardinals scandal wasn't as big of a deal as it should be.

seriously?

Get over it. Was a rogue employee who did the actions on his own. Had nothing directed down from upper management or anything like that.

you act like the cardinals have been caught cheating multiple times. Taping teams practices before the World Series, etc :)

*Cough* Patriots*

[ShaneFalco]

Anyone remember when Heyward returned to STL as a Cub and he spent the entire time on defense being called racial slurs?

Or how they responded to his views on a recent controversial policy?

The bigotry of that fanbase is never talked about - instead we idolize them as the 'best fans in baseball' because they're passionate. The irony is that we talk about them as a 'small market' team when they have a competitive roster, spend money, are one of the most profitable teams in the league, and a large fan base.

The whole franchise is a damn fraud.

Molina is a knock off of Johnny Bench, btw.


your city killed harambe.

far worse

[FanInAZ]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/jul/18/st-louis-cardinals-hacking-houston-astros-jail-sentence

Prison time.

I bet Christopher Corre is an alias. I wonder how good he speaks Russian?

[chazoe60]

Anyone remember when Heyward returned to STL as a Cub and he spent the entire time on defense being called racial slurs?

Or how they responded to his views on a recent controversial policy?

The bigotry of that fanbase is never talked about - instead we idolize them as the 'best fans in baseball' because they're passionate. The irony is that we talk about them as a 'small market' team when they have a competitive roster, spend money, are one of the most profitable teams in the league, and a large fan base.

The whole franchise is a damn fraud.

Molina is a knock off of Johnny Bench, btw.

Say what you want about Cards fans but dissing Molina is just wrong. Molina plays the game of baseball the way it is supposed to be played. Molina is an amazing baseball player.

[ShaneFalco]

Denver had fans freak out because of Joseph.

Its easy to pick a few fans out and claim the whole fanbase is racist.

There is three things i miss about STL.

The Pizza ,hearing the stadium fireworks every summer coming out of the city, and the beautiful diamond the cards play on. :) its hallowed ground.

And yes Molina is all class. One of my favorite players of all time next to Ozzie Smith.

[Poet]

Does Denver consistently do that? Because STL fans do.

Please, come to where I live in Illinois and deal with them for a week. You'll find a new team.

[slim]

Denver had fans freak out because of Joseph.

Its easy to pick a few fans out and claim the whole fanbase is racist.

There is two things i miss about STL.

The Pizza and hearing the stadium fireworks every summer coming out of the city :)

And yes Molina is all class. One of my favorite players of all time next to Ozzie Smith.

What fans?

[ShaneFalco]

What fans?

racist trolls on twitter announcement, but thats nothing new. nor will i act it like it portrays a fanbase.

[slim]

racist trolls on twitter, but thats nothing new. nor will i act it like it portrays a fanbase.

Then shut the **** up...you race baiting POS.

[Poet]

Comparing fans in the STL and Illinois Area who consistently do that shit to a handful of twitter trolls is not a strong rebuttal.

[ShaneFalco]

Yea the same people who just cheered for Fowler after his vocal anti trump stance.

STL Cardinal Fans just a bunch of white racists.

You sound like a clown

[ShaneFalco]

Does Denver consistently do that? Because STL fans do.

Please, come to where I live in Illinois and deal with them for a week. You'll find a new team.

Is St. Louis in Illinois?

[ShaneFalco]

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/jose-de-jesus-ortiz/ortiz-fowler-has-a-blast-being-a-cardinal-and-former/article_27204439-cd6f-57fa-8603-8009434aca7b.html

Ortiz: Fowler has a blast being a Cardinal — and former Cub


Dexter Fowler was eager to experience the pageantry of opening night as a Cardinal at Busch Stadium on Sunday. He was excited to see the Clydesdales head out for their trot around the warning track before Hall of Famers started their parade toward home plate.

He received a raucous ovation when he was introduced to the crowd during the pregame ceremony and then again when he led off the bottom of the first.

He truly felt the love after he singled in the third inning, receiving an ovation that even left an impression on his former Cubs teammate Anthony Rizzo.

“It was awesome,” Fowler said after Randal Grichuk hit a single in the ninth inning to beat the Cubs 4-3.

Fowler spent last season making history with the Cubs, building a legacy by helping them win their first World Series title in 108 years. Then on Sunday night he began to feel the warmth of the Best Fans in Baseball.

The Cardinals’ fans clearly have embraced their new center fielder and leadoff hitter. Only Yadier Molina received a louder ovation from the sellout crowd of 47,566 than Fowler during the pregame introductions. That reception is quite remarkable considering Fowler spent the previous two seasons playing for the Cards’ biggest rival.

[Poet]

Is St. Louis in Illinois?

If you're from STL you should realize that Southern Illinois and even Central Illinois has a massive STL following. And, actually, East Saint Louis IS in Illinois.

[ShaneFalco]

If you're from STL you should realize that Southern Illinois and even Central Illinois has a massive STL following. And, actually, East Saint Louis IS in Illinois.

So there are more racists in Illinois and Missouri then other states?

Race is an issue there. No Doubt, as it is in every other place.

The City vs Rural divide is also an issue.

Most people have left the city and its taxes over the last 20 years and moved out to surrounding areas. This causes resentment between both.

[Poet]

Yea the same people who just cheered for Fowler after his vocal anti trump stance.

STL Cardinal Fans just a bunch of white racists.

You sound like a clown

http://elitedaily.com/sports/st-louis-cardinals-fans-racist/1465807/

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2694654-attacks-on-dexter-fowler-an-eye-opener-to-how-the-world-is-for-others-in-mlb

The fan base is trash. You're essentially arguing 'well those people might not live in STL so it's not on the fanbase'. Here's a thought - many places have fans in surrounding areas. Now google the US map. Then look where Missouri is. Then look where Illinois is.

[ShaneFalco]

http://elitedaily.com/sports/st-louis-cardinals-fans-racist/1465807/

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2694654-attacks-on-dexter-fowler-an-eye-opener-to-how-the-world-is-for-others-in-mlb

The fan base is trash. You're essentially arguing 'well those people might not live in STL so it's not on the fanbase'. Here's a thought - many places have fans in surrounding areas. Now google the US map. Then look where Missouri is. Then look where Illinois is.

so idiotic.

You literally bring up an article written by some Mets NY Liberal talking about when BLM protesters, WHO WERE PROTESTING A CRIMINAL. MIKE BROWN. tried to prevent people from going to playoff game.

And people got pissed off.

So they are "Racist". give me a ******* break.

Then the article goes to some random tweet. (ironic vance jospeh bronco tweet)

Isaac Bennett @isaaccbennett

ESPN needs to be *very* careful with opening up their crowd mics. There are absolutely nasty things being said right now towards Heyward.

Then people asked him to provide proof. As we live in a world with DVR and REWIND.

@accordingtoame

@isaaccbennett Where is video of this incident? All I've heard is "boo" and "traitor" mixed with applause.

But none came.... why?

[Poet]

So there are more racists in Illinois and Missouri then other states?

Race is an issue there. No Doubt, as it is in every other place.

The City vs Rural divide is also an issue.

Most people have left the city and its taxes over the last 20 years and moved out to surrounding areas. This causes resentment between both.

I'm saying there's this magical little attitude in the area where if you're a person of color and you draw the ire of the STL fanbase you get called racial slurs. I used to root for the Reds - I've never heard of Cub, Pirate, or Astro fans doing what the Cardinal fans do. Or did you forget how Rams fans acted when those damn black guys for the Rams made a pre-game protest?

Or did you forget about this? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/07/st-louis-cardinals-ferguson-protesters_n_5946462.html

The fanbase is trash. Utter trash. And because they're a bunch of racists, and cheaters (Astros)...they're the worst fans in all of sports. And terrible human beings.

[ShaneFalco]

Basing your entire premise of racist STL fans on a tweet.

https://twitter.com/Cich206/status/722446238726168577

[Poet]

so idiotic.

You literally bring up an article written by some Mets NY Liberal talking about when BLM protesters, WHO WERE PROTESTING A CRIMINAL. MIKE BROWN. tried to prevent people from going to playoff game.

And people got pissed off.

So they are "Racist". give me a ******* break.

Then the article goes to some random tweet. (ironic vance jospeh bronco tweet)

Isaac Bennett @isaaccbennett

ESPN needs to be *very* careful with opening up their crowd mics. There are absolutely nasty things being said right now towards Heyward.

Then people asked him to provide proof. As we live in a world with DVR and REWIND.

@accordingtoame

@isaaccbennett Where is video of this incident? All I've heard is "boo" and "traitor" mixed with applause.

But none came.... why?

Oh, noes, a liberal said something that SF didn't like. Means nothing now!

Sad. So sad. I expected better of you.

[Poet]

Or basing it on consistent issues and growing up around Cardinal fans my entire life.

But hey, the ones who live close to Missouri but not in it don't count!

[ShaneFalco]

New York Daily News shamed itself —not St. Louis — by portraying Cardinals fans as racists

Read more here: http://www.bnd.com/sports/mlb/st-louis-cardinals/article72680297.html#storylink=cpy



The New York Daily News hit its online readers today with this salacious, click-luring headline: “Jason Heyward blitzed with alleged N-word from Cardinals fans in return to St. Louis.”

According to the diligent reporting of Daily News’ writer Kate Feldman, the “alleged” slurs were captured by a crowd mic set up for ESPN’s game broadcast. The N-word may have been used, so says a tweet from ... uh ... somebody, which Feldman embedded in her article. From this, the Daily News concluded, Heyward’s St. Louis homecoming “was marred with racial slurs.”
Todd Eschman - BND Sports Editor

So exactly who said it? The Daily News can’t say.

How many of the 45,432 paid fans were involved in pelting Heyward with their bigoted epitaphs? Not sure.

Were the offenders removed from the ballpark or addressed in any way by the Cardinals’ organization? Not mentioned, one way or the other.

With so many Cubs’ fans down from Chicago, how can anyone even know it was a Cardinals fan?

No, what Feldman reports is that the ESPN mics picked up some fan(s) somewhere saying something ... “allegedly.” Maybe twice.

A review of the ESPN audio files from the game gives us no evidence of any untoward language being caught by their mics.

And as for Heyward himself? He heard the boos, which he fully expected since he turned down an eight-year, $184 million contract from the Cardinals this past off-season. But he wrote them off as being entirely good-natured. The way he figures it, nobody would have booed if they hadn’t wanted him to stay.

A “blitz” of “alleged” racial slurs? He didn’t hear it.

A homecoming “marred” by racial undertones? Not that he noticed.

“I’m kind of glad that people weren’t happy to see me leave,” he told the press. “The fans should enjoy it, and we’re going to enjoy it.”



Such trash. And you bought it.

[Poet]

The actual best fans in baseball is probably Boston or Cub fans. But you tend to do better with larger cities and more educated and sophisticated populaces.

[ShaneFalco]

And as for Heyward himself? He heard the boos, which he fully expected since he turned down an eight-year, $184 million contract from the Cardinals this past off-season. But he wrote them off as being entirely good-natured. The way he figures it, nobody would have booed if they hadn’t wanted him to stay.

A “blitz” of “alleged” racial slurs? He didn’t hear it.

:tsk:

[ShaneFalco]

I should write an article claiming every fanbase is racist based on some tweets.

[Poet]

New York Daily News shamed itself —not St. Louis — by portraying Cardinals fans as racists

Read more here: http://www.bnd.com/sports/mlb/st-louis-cardinals/article72680297.html#storylink=cpy




Such trash. And you bought it.

Great, now deal with all the other shit that fanbase has done. But you can't - you don't want to talk about the comments they made about Pujols, or Fowler, and you'll just say 'random people in the internet' and ignore the racist shit. Because hey, **** it, only the people who literally live in Saint Louis and say shit to protestors that you like count...

Two thumbs down.

[chazoe60]

Great job of ******* up the MLB thread on opening day fellas.

[ShaneFalco]

Great, now deal with all the other shit that fanbase has done. But you can't - you don't want to talk about the comments they made about Pujols, or Fowler, and you'll just say 'random people in the internet' and ignore the racist shit. Because hey, **** it, only the people who literally live in Saint Louis and say shit to protestors that you like count...

Two thumbs down.
what other shit?

You brought up a BLM protest during the playoffs and some tweets that were made up.

Pujols? I miss Pujols, have the moment since he left. As did most Cards fans.

[Poet]

I should write an article claiming every fanbase is racist based on some tweets.

Racial slurs to protesters? Bah. Racial slurs online en masse to Fowler..bah. Racial comments about the Rams players and the protest (the pregame).

I get it. It's easier for you. We can ignore all the racist comments in the local news sections about all of those incidents, too. I mean, if it's anything less than the fans signing a petition stating they want all white players...bah.

They're shitty people. Two of the worst years of my life was spent selling hats at Lids - and dealing with those fans was the constant lowlight of just about every day.

[MOtorboat]

Great job of ******* up the MLB thread on opening day fellas.

Seriously.

Shane and King. **** off.

[ShaneFalco]

Albert Pujols explains why he still roots for the St. Louis Cardinals

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/st-louis-cardinals-los-angeles-angels-albert-pujols-roots-for-yadier-molina-051116

this what you talking about?

[Poet]

Great job of ******* up the MLB thread on opening day fellas.

Nope - I maintain the Cardinal fans are cheating pieces of shit and bigots - which is related to baseball. Eat my dick. With your mouth. But I'll just PM Falco the links because for some reason I respect you.

I caught the last inning of the Rockies game. Buy me a hat, bitch.

[ShaneFalco]

Great job of ******* up the MLB thread on opening day fellas.

all i did was root for the cards in this thread and was called racist along with my fanbase. So whatever.

Some Cards fans are borderline religion when it comes to the team. So they dont care if a protest tries to stop them, or whatever else happens. And ill leave it at that.

[Poet]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmbnHeFDVSw&feature=youtu.be

[CoachChaz]

Kind of ridiculous to judge an entire fanbase on the actions of a few. Regardless of the team.

Well...Cowboys fans might be the exception I'd make to that rule.

[WTE]

Buff, was Benintendi already taken? He hit a 3 run HR yesterday and is my choice for ROY

[MOtorboat]

Buff, was Benintendi already taken? He hit a 3 run HR yesterday and is my choice for ROY

You made your decision on rookie of the year on one game? Seems like solid reasoning.

[WTE]

You made your decision on rookie of the year on one game? Seems like solid reasoning.

No, I made that decision based on what he did last year as a late season call up. EAD

[CoachChaz]

Ahh...so basing it on 113 total career at bats. Even better.

But be honest...if he played for anyone other than the Sux...would he really be your pick?

[MOtorboat]

Ahh...so basing it on 113 total career at bats. Even better.

But be honest...if he played for anyone other than the Sux...would he really be your pick?

I absolutely agree that WTE is picking him because he's a Red Sock. That said, he's got to be the favorite heading into the season.

[chazoe60]

Just got MLB.tv subscription for free just for being on T-Mobile. Now I can watch Rockies day games at work. :laugh:

[WTE]

I absolutely agree that WTE is picking him because he's a Red Sock. That said, he's got to be the favorite heading into the season.

He's also terrific in the field. Made a nice play yesterday on a fly that was dropped quickly due to wind.

[Dapper Dan]

Just got MLB.tv subscription for free just for being on T-Mobile. Now I can watch Rockies day games at work. :laugh:

Is that a good thing?

[Buff]

Is that a good thing?

It's good practice for a month from now when he's unemployed and can watch all of the games.

[chazoe60]

It's good practice for a month from now when he's unemployed and can watch all of the games.

Never gonna happen. ;)

[weazel]

Minnesota beating KC like an old mule

[Poet]

I've been watching a lot of baseball as of late. I've seen the Cubs, Cardinals, Rockies, Nats, Yankees, and I the White Sox all play. What I've gleaned from the experience is that football is best enjoyed with others and baseball is best enjoyed by myself. Watching the games on my laptop on the couch makes it a better experience. Not sure why?

I still need a team, though.

[weazel]

I've been watching a lot of baseball as of late. I've seen the Cubs, Cardinals, Rockies, Nats, Yankees, and I the White Sox all play. What I've gleaned from the experience is that football is best enjoyed with others and baseball is best enjoyed by myself. Watching the games on my laptop on the couch makes it a better experience. Not sure why?

I still need a team, though.

Cleveland

[MOtorboat]

Interesting read on Dylan Bundy:

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/dylan-bundy-made-the-blue-jays-look-silly/

[weazel]

made them look silly? LMFAO it's a blog written by someone obviously still butt hurt they lost to the Blue Jays in the wild card game.

The only thing silly is this article. Bundy and Happ both pitched 7 innings, Bundy gave up 4 hits and Happ gave up 5. Does Baltimore have a better hitting team, looking at the last 4 years stats, yes. They won the game on a homerun.

Do I think the Jays are going anywhere this season? No, I think there a dumpster fire in the making and will be unloading players at the deadline. Did they look silly? No.

[MOtorboat]

made them look silly? LMFAO it's a blog written by someone obviously still butt hurt they lost to the Blue Jays in the wild card game.

The only thing silly is this article. Bundy and Happ both pitched 7 innings, Bundy gave up 4 hits and Happ gave up 5. Does Baltimore have a better hitting team, looking at the last 4 years stats, yes. They won the game on a homerun.

Do I think the Jays are going anywhere this season? No, I think there a dumpster fire in the making and will be unloading players at the deadline. Did they look silly? No.

Good grief.

That had nothing to do with the playoffs last year. At all. Even remotely.

[weazel]

Good grief.

That had nothing to do with the playoffs last year. At all. Even remotely.

the article didn't... the writers intent did. butt hurt. The title said everything about this dudes hurt, didn't need to read further.

[Dapper Dan]

I've been watching a lot of baseball as of late. I've seen the Cubs, Cardinals, Rockies, Nats, Yankees, and I the White Sox all play. What I've gleaned from the experience is that football is best enjoyed with others and baseball is best enjoyed by myself. Watching the games on my laptop on the couch makes it a better experience. Not sure why?

I still need a team, though.

Orioles. I like them. I'm still struggling to let go of the Reds though. I got so hype when Lorenzen hit a pinch homer today.

[Poet]

Orioles. I like them. I'm still struggling to let go of the Reds though. I got so hype when Lorenzen hit a pinch homer today.

AL and NL team, fam.

[Dapper Dan]

AL and NL team, fam.

I'm hoping to go see the Orioles play in Cincy this month.

[Poet]

I'm hoping to go see the Orioles play in Cincy this month.

Go Orioles!

[ShaneFalco]

Baseball mysteriously sticks to Yadier Molina's belly

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/04/st-louis-cardinals-yadier-molina-sticky-baseball-mlb-what-happened-here

https://twitter.com/MLB/status/850081762889916417

[weazel]

hmm, interesting

[Dapper Dan]

Probably more cheating.

[MOtorboat]

I have a fairly healthy man crush on Justin Turner. Colorado Rockies fans please e-flog me accordingly.

[Poet]

Go Cubs!

[MOtorboat]

Go Cubs!

WTF? I thought you liked the Dodgers now. You can't like the Dodgers and the Cubs. That's not allowed.

[Poet]

WTF? I thought you liked the Dodgers now. You can't like the Dodgers and the Cubs. That's not allowed.

At this point I'm really just watching baseball and enjoying it.

[Dapper Dan]

Who's better, MadBum or Kershaw?

[MOtorboat]

Who's better, MadBum or Kershaw?

Kershaw. Bumgarner is an interesting case though.

[Hawgdriver]

Mad bum.

[Dapper Dan]

I traded off Kershaw to Madbum to a friend. I told him he had to throw in $10. I believe he thinks I was joking about the money.

[chazoe60]

Who's better, MadBum or Kershaw?

Kershaw from April through September, Mad-Bum is verging on GOAT status come October.

[Poet]

Who is the GOAT pitcher?

[ShaneFalco]

Who is the GOAT pitcher?

Wainwright

:D

[Poet]

Wainwright

:D

That guy is a beast. He has two 20 win seasons and two 19 wins seasons. That is style.

[Dapper Dan]

Wainwright

:D

It doesn't stand for Gayest Of All Time

[ShaneFalco]

best arm has to be randy johnson.

Duno what best statistical pitcher is.

[Poet]

best arm has to be randy johnson.

Pedro is up there.

[ShaneFalco]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwpRHrAh3pk

[Poet]

PETA protested Randy Johnson because of that - he threw baseballs at them and he left.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-best-pitchers-of-all-time/

I love Pedro! Dude was my favorite SP growing up.

[Dapper Dan]

Who is the GOAT pitcher?

Like, the best ever? Ever ever?

[Dapper Dan]

PETA protested Randy Johnson because of that - he threw baseballs at them and he left.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-best-pitchers-of-all-time/

I love Pedro! Dude was my favorite SP growing up.

My favorite was Roger Clemens. :/

[Poet]

Like, the best ever? Ever ever?

Yeah, fam!

[MOtorboat]

Wainwright

:D

From a team that has Bob Gibson? Come'on man.

[MOtorboat]

Who is the GOAT pitcher?

Sandy Koufax.

/discussion

[Poet]

Sandy Koufax.

/discussion

I think it really is Pedro. That article is nuts, man.

[MOtorboat]

I think it really is Pedro. That article is nuts, man.

That is. I don't know much about their ELO, other than to say it seems like they are trying to find when the best pitchers were at their best. That's certainly one way of trying to figure out who the best pitcher of all time was. Man, those two years, 1999 and 2000, were something else though. Holy smokes I forgot how good he was during that stretch. WARs of 11 (Fangraphs says it was 1999 that was an 11 WAR year, B-R says it was 2000 that was an 11 WAR year). Fangraphs says the single best pitching season via WAR was Pedro's 1999 season. Steve Carlton's 1972 campaign was second. http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2017&month=0&season1=1871&ind=1&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=20,d

Via baseball-reference's career WAR it's Cy Young, but that's also a product of the fact he pitched 7,356 innings and won 511 games.

Fangraphs' career WAR leader is Roger Clemons.

Fascinating stuff.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Kris-

Are my Angels pretenders this year? I don't know how good there pitching is, but I hear the infield is playing lights out.

[MOtorboat]

Granted, this is the high-mound era, but Koufax from 1963-66 was amazing. 1966 was his last season because his arm basically broke (I think it was his shoulder).

He won the Cy Young three times in four years, went 97-27 had 89 complete games, 1,192 innings, 1,228 strikeouts and had 1.86 ERA. For four straight seasons. He had 31 shutouts, only allowed 281 runs (70 per year) and walked just 259 (65 per year).

There's a story in his biography about Dodgers Fantasy Camp in the 1980s (I think) when he was in his 50s, ripping off an 85-mph fastball because some dude was giving him shit.

[MOtorboat]

Kris-

Are my Angels pretenders this year? I don't know how good there pitching is, but I hear the infield is playing lights out.

I'm not Kris, but I'd say they have a chance as long as Mike Trout is healthy. Pitching would probably be the key. That's a tough division with the Astros and the Rangers.

[chazoe60]

Who is the GOAT pitcher?

Top three all time
Sandy Koufax
Walter Johnson
Greg Maddux

[chazoe60]

Saw this stat about Greg Maddux

He faced 20,421 batters during his career and only 310 saw a 3-0 count. 177 of those were intentional walks

MO, can this be true? It seems implausible.

[MOtorboat]

Saw this stat about Greg Maddux

He faced 20,421 batters during his career and only 310 saw a 3-0 count. 177 of those were intentional walks

Holy shit. That can't be true.

[Poet]

Didn't they prove that Maddux got to play with an expanded strike zone?

[MOtorboat]

Didn't they prove that Maddux got to play with an expanded strike zone?

It wasn't until recently that MLB began telling their umpires to be strict to the strike zone as written, so during most of Maddux's career, and throughout the 90s (when I was watching, could have and probably did occur earlier), you could test the limits. Maddux was so precise, he could basically work the edge further and further out getting strike calls as he went throughout the game. He wasn't alone, though, he's just the face of that particular tactic.

[Dapper Dan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axkik-8oFTs

[MOtorboat]

Here you go, King. Tom Glavine, but same difference.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/tom-glavines-allegedly-generous-strike-zone/

[weazel]

Holy shit. That can't be true.

I've heard that stat too. Funny thing, when I seen your list of 3 the first thing I looked for is that stat but couldn't find it.

[Poet]

It wasn't until recently that MLB began telling their umpires to be strict to the strike zone as written, so during most of Maddux's career, and throughout the 90s (when I was watching, could have and probably did occur earlier), you could test the limits. Maddux was so precise, he could basically work the edge further and further out getting strike calls as he went throughout the game. He wasn't alone, though, he's just the face of that particular tactic.

He had a very good skillset at the right time to abuse it. I don't think that makes him the greatest. I remember when he blew up on an umpire during his last stint as a cub - they showed the 'strikes' that weren't being called (that he was accustomed to getting) and it was crazy to see. I know that all great pitchers get some different treatment on the mound, but if all things were equal I don't think Maddux is HoF guy.

[Hawgdriver]

Sandy Koufax.

/discussion

Gotta have Walter Johnson in the discussion, too.

[Poet]

Y'all love those old timers! Why?

[Hawgdriver]

Y'all love those old timers! Why?

Production in relation to their peers was remarkably high. Sure, it's impossible to directly compare pitchers across different eras, but you can compare the delta of how far they exceeded their peers between eras.

[Poet]

Production in relation to their peers was remarkably high. Sure, it's impossible to directly compare pitchers across different eras, but you can compare the delta of how far they exceeded their peers between eras.

You remind me of my stat professor who used baseball players as examples for how stats work. I asked him about the eras (he was a huge baseball fan) and what if someone is really good but their era sucked? What is your response?

[Hawgdriver]

You remind me of my stat professor who used baseball players as examples for how stats work. I asked him about the eras (he was a huge baseball fan) and what if someone is really good but their era sucked? What is your response?

What I said.

Let's say Pitcher X plays in the suck-ball era, average quality during era is 2. Pitcher Y in the baller-ball era, average quality during era is 5. Pitcher X and Pitcher Y are both quality 8 players. Pitcher X is 6 above his peers, Pitcher Y is 3 above. So Pitcher X is a higher percentile of talent relative to his era, and is the better player.

It is impossible to control the many variables that change from era to era (where "era" is a term that I should define but will ignore for now).

So, begin with the assumption that there is a universal and timeless shape of the distribution of talent of baseball players. So that you can visualize something, let's say it's a bell curve but even if it's Pareto or something no big deal.

Normal (bell) distribution
http://condor.depaul.edu/sjost/it223/documents/bell-shaped.gif

Pareto distribution
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/11/Probability_density_function_of_Pareto_distributio n.svg/325px-Probability_density_function_of_Pareto_distributio n.svg.png

In era A, the average measured quality (something like league average ERA or batting average, etc.) is high. In era B, the average measured quality is low.

Measure player talent by what percentile it is relative to that average. Then you can compare percentiles.