View Full Version : Is TS the most uninspiring player in the NFL?
Broncoknight30
12-25-2016, 08:52 PM
Every time I see his demeanor, I find myself feeling sleepy. Does he have any sort of fire in him?
Could be me, I admit.
aberdien
12-25-2016, 09:01 PM
He is as vanilla as it gets.
Slick
12-25-2016, 09:06 PM
I'm not a fan.
ShaneFalco
12-25-2016, 09:09 PM
we had an inspiring qb once...
he playing baseball now
aberdien
12-25-2016, 09:15 PM
we had an inspiring qb once...
he playing baseball now
No he chose to play football over baseball and that was a few decades ago.
He is a nice guy doing his best. He just probably doesn't have the tools to do much.
silkamilkamonico
12-25-2016, 10:25 PM
milquetoast
aberdien
12-25-2016, 10:46 PM
He's not a bad QB, he just makes Alex Smith look like Joe Montana.
He's not a bad QB, he just makes Alex Smith look like Joe Montana.
He's not a good QB either
He's not a good QB either
He can't throw a deep ball, or sideline throws, his pocket presence doesn't seem to improve.
But he does have some nice mobility, he's tough as shit, and he has just enough arm to make something happen.
He can be a top twenty QB. Somewhere between 13-20.
He can't throw a deep ball, or sideline throws, his pocket presence doesn't seem to improve.
But he does have some nice mobility, he's tough as shit, and he has just enough arm to make something happen.
He can be a top twenty QB. Somewhere between 13-20.
Oh.
Oh.
I don't think that poorly of him. It's just that I point out flaws and issues that people either don't see or can't understand. It's the burden I carry, Slim.
I don't think that poorly of him. It's just that I point out flaws and issues that people either don't see or can't understand. It's the burden I carry, Slim.
He is not the answer.
That's okay, but maybe we should give Lynch some live action.
He is not the answer.
That's okay, but maybe we should give Lynch some live action.
He has a shot. I don't think it's a good one, but I was speaking to his ceiling.
He has a shot. I don't think it's a good one, but I was speaking to his ceiling.
I just had a shot!
I just had a shot!
Wanna be our QB?
The pay is great.
I am old and already make enough
Al Wilson 4 Mayor
12-25-2016, 11:07 PM
I don't think he's a good QB atm. I just think he has enough upside to not throw the baby out with the bath water.
**** that baby and his bath water
I am old and already make enough
You clear 200,000, so that's true.
You clear 200,000, so that's true.
You dont know!
This shots for you!
Well, you once told me you cleared that much, so...
Anyway....TD on this drive or it's GG season.
Well, you once told me you cleared that much, so...
Anyway....TD on this drive or it's GG season.
I did not!
When does spring training start?
MOtorboat
12-25-2016, 11:29 PM
I did not!
When does spring training start?
Feb. 15.
Chidoze
12-26-2016, 12:35 AM
Hes a backup quarterback at best
Simple Jaded
12-26-2016, 01:22 AM
Apparently his teammates respect the hell out of him, and not in that fake ass made up fairytales bullshit way like Tebow, so **** what we think.
MOtorboat
12-26-2016, 01:24 AM
Apparently his teammates respect the hell out of him, and not in that fake ass made up fairytales bullshit way like Tebow, so **** what we think.
He seems like a really great guy. What's that you usually say about all that?
Simple Jaded
12-26-2016, 01:26 AM
He seems like a really great guy. What's that you usually say about all that?
Touché , well played.
Simple Jaded
12-26-2016, 01:28 AM
Damn you's! Nobody makes me bleed my own blood.
Touché , well played.
You are now a style god.
Don't **** this up.
Simple Jaded
12-26-2016, 01:31 AM
You are now a style god.
Don't **** this up.
Holy shit?...I mean...of course...I got this.
Holy shit?...I mean...of course...I got this.
Use hashtags.
Al Wilson 4 Mayor
12-26-2016, 11:26 AM
He can't throw a deep ball, or sideline throws, his pocket presence doesn't seem to improve.
But he does have some nice mobility, he's tough as shit, and he has just enough arm to make something happen.
He can be a top twenty QB. Somewhere between 13-20.
Funny thing is, I agree with most of this. I'm not sure what happened yesterday, but I hadn't seen any of your posts in the game day thread until you came unhinged.
Northman
12-26-2016, 11:35 AM
I didnt get to watch the game but judging by his numbers it wasnt pretty. Still need to see what he can do with a better Oline in front of him but at this stage Lynch should start the final game of the season as there is nothing on line anymore.
I didnt get to watch the game but judging by his numbers it wasnt pretty. Still need to see what he can do with a better Oline in front of him but at this stage Lynch should start the final game of the season as there is nothing on line anymore.
He sucked ass. Imagine him not being accurate on deep balls, not sliding or stepping up in the pocket when he could, missing guys open in the middle of the field, and underthrowing intermediate routes
He was utterly awful. Even when the line did hold up he sucked. I think the guy has taken a beaten and he just can't physically make it happen right now. I also think he's behind the curve in regards to what he should know as a young QB.
Cugel
12-26-2016, 02:10 PM
He sucked ass. Imagine him not being accurate on deep balls, not sliding or stepping up in the pocket when he could, missing guys open in the middle of the field, and underthrowing intermediate routes
He was utterly awful. Even when the line did hold up he sucked. I think the guy has taken a beaten and he just can't physically make it happen right now. I also think he's behind the curve in regards to what he should know as a young QB.
That's a bit hard. I am no particular fan of Siemian, who is just what you'd expect a 7th round QB to be in his 2nd NFL season, but he wasn't horrible. A lot of his problem is that the entire offense has just given up.
If you tell people "you just suck!" often enough they could start to believe it. "Yeah, maybe we do just suck." The team went out there last night and died.
The defense was tired. They were missing a bunch of guys and they were just worn out from having to do everything for the last 2 years while the offense just tried not to soil their own pants quite so often.
The offense is just lost. Guys were mailing it in. They can't wait until the off-season. I'm sure if they could vote to just forfeit the final game they'd do it and go to Hawaii and try and forget all about the season. Then call their agents and see if there's still a job waiting for them in the NFL. Maybe the CFL?
I don't think we can assume anything about Siemian, except that nobody with a grain of sense thinks he's going to become an elite QB when he's never been one in his life so far.
Could he be good enough to lead a team with a great defense to another championship? Maybe. He'd have to improve significantly.
But, Paxton Lynch looked like Lurch out there. Once again it's way too early to tell if Elway screwed up by jumping ahead of Dallas to grab Lynch instead of waiting and taking Dak Prescott in the 3rd round. However, so far he's been Lynchenstein. It's at least possible that Elway's fetish with giant bean stalk QBs has played him false again.
I mean we have zero evidence that being 6'7" or 6'8" and built like a bean-pole is going to make for an elite QB, but Elway keeps picking them.
First, Bean-stalk Brock, who has already flamed out in Houston in less than 1 year, who, let us remember, Elway wanted to give $16 M a year, $32M guaranteed to. Now Paxton.
Meanwhile Drew Brees is still 6'0", 209 lbs. and he just led the NFL once again in passing yards and completion % (70%), and Russell Wilson is still a top 10 QB in passing despite being 5'11".
No. He was absolute trash. He still struggles with deep passes and either overthrows or underthrows constantly. He still can't find anyone over the middle. He still fails to move UP IN THE POCKET. There are times where the pocket is mostly intact, he has pressure from the side, and he either doesn't feel it or runs around like a turd.
And ultimately, he's doing fine overall. But he was shit against the Patriots and dreadful last night. He's regressing.
Cugel
12-26-2016, 02:42 PM
No. He was absolute trash. He still struggles with deep passes and either overthrows or underthrows constantly. He still can't find anyone over the middle. He still fails to move UP IN THE POCKET. There are times where the pocket is mostly intact, he has pressure from the side, and he either doesn't feel it or runs around like a turd.
And ultimately, he's doing fine overall. But he was shit against the Patriots and dreadful last night. He's regressing.
You might want to stock up on anti-anxiety Medical Marijuana because it looks like Siemian will be the #1 QB starting next season.
You might want to stock up on anti-anxiety Medical Marijuana because it looks like Siemian will be the #1 QB starting next season.
If the line improves and we can work on stopping the run, it'll be okay.
silkamilkamonico
12-26-2016, 02:51 PM
Siemian has look pretty good when the running game has been working and the oline has held up it's end. Circumstances that 32+ other NFL QB's could look good in as well. That's kind of the problem with Siemain IMHO.
Cugel
12-26-2016, 03:56 PM
Siemian has look pretty good when the running game has been working and the oline has held up it's end. Circumstances that 32+ other NFL QB's could look good in as well. That's kind of the problem with Siemain IMHO.
The problem is "where are they going to find someone better?" If Paxton Lynch makes a big leap from year #1 to year #2, then fine. He can be the starter, and Siemian goes back to the bench, where you expect a 7th round QB to wind up.
If not though, this could be a long-assed QB search, like it was under Shanahan after Elway retired. There's maybe 12 QBs good enough to win the SB and about 20 teams that either hope their guy will develop into that elite QB, or are still looking (like the Jets, Bills and Browns always are).
Lynch doesn't have to make a big leap to be a serviceable player.
silkamilkamonico
12-26-2016, 04:11 PM
The problem is "where are they going to find someone better?" If Paxton Lynch makes a big leap from year #1 to year #2, then fine. He can be the starter, and Siemian goes back to the bench, where you expect a 7th round QB to wind up.
If not though, this could be a long-assed QB search, like it was under Shanahan after Elway retired. There's maybe 12 QBs good enough to win the SB and about 20 teams that either hope their guy will develop into that elite QB, or are still looking (like the Jets, Bills and Browns always are).
Is it really a long search? IMO Siemian wasn pretty decent at times this year when everything was working. That isn't hard to replace considering there are 32+ other QB's that could be good under that circumstance as well. Remember the game he looked good in and got hurt? Paxton came in and looked good too.
IMO TS didn't have any games where he made plays for the offense when things weren't working. He sank right along with the rest of the offense. He showed 0 signs of being a difference maker. That situation really isn't a hard situation to find someone better. Say they stay with TS. That's fine, but if the running game doesn't get better and the oline isn't fixed, we're right back in a situation we're in now. Look at Wentz in Philly. He's struggled this year too along with a terribloe oline, no running game, and terrible wr's, That kid has nothing around him. Yet he's still making 3-5 plays a game all by himself in key situations. He has great plays called back every game because his oline leads the NFL in penalties. He still makes plays with everything breaking down around him. TS doesn't do any of that. I hope Lynch wins the job next year. At least let's see if he can make a handful plays a game by himself.
Cugel
12-26-2016, 04:22 PM
Is it really a long search? IMO Siemian wasn pretty decent at times this year when everything was working. That isn't hard to replace considering there are 32+ other QB's that could be good under that circumstance as well. Remember the game he looked good in and got hurt? Paxton came in and looked good too.
IMO TS didn't have any games where he made plays for the offense when things weren't working. He sank right along with the rest of the offense. He showed 0 signs of being a difference maker. That situation really isn't a hard situation to find someone better. Say they stay with TS. That's fine, but if the running game doesn't get better and the oline isn't fixed, we're right back in a situation we're in now. Look at Wentz in Philly. He's struggled this year too along with a terribloe oline, no running game, and terrible wr's, That kid has nothing around him. Yet he's still making 3-5 plays a game all by himself in key situations. He has great plays called back every game because his oline leads the NFL in penalties. He still makes plays with everything breaking down around him. TS doesn't do any of that. I hope Lynch wins the job next year. At least let's see if he can make a handful plays a game by himself.
Everybody who isn't deluded agrees with you. Obviously Trevor Siemian has not impressed in his first year as a starter. He didn't have a ton of help from his OL or RBs, but he didn't exactly bring out the best in his teammates either. The best you could say of him was:
1. He was tough. No matter how many times his OL ole'd defenders who creamed Siemian, he hung in there.
2. He has a good strong arm. He was able to throw downfield effectively at times.
3. He has decent mobility.
That's about it though. The list of defects is considerably longer.
But, unless the team stumbles on somebody much better they are going to stick with Siemian until Lynch proves he deserves the starting job. So far Lynch's development could best be described as "real slow."
Freyaka
12-27-2016, 10:16 AM
Siemian has look pretty good when the running game has been working and the oline has held up it's end. Circumstances that 32+ other NFL QB's could look good in as well. That's kind of the problem with Siemain IMHO.
If you look at the last two weeks, they knew our rungame wasn't there and just dropped all but the bare minimum to coverage and then just blanket covered the hell out of everyone.
There were very few plays where anyone was open without forcing the ball in a pretty tight window... We need to develop a running game next season for balance and to keep defenses honest.
MOtorboat
12-27-2016, 01:31 PM
The Broncos averaged 4.6 yards per carry against the Chiefs. There was no problem with the run game.
The Broncos averaged 4.6 yards per carry against the Chiefs. There was no problem with the run game.
Other than the coaches not calling many runs?
We do certain things well and then abandon them and just have Siemian drop back 5 steps and get pummeled. It is infuriating to watch these coaches with their inept playcalling.
Siemian or Lynch won't matter when the gameplan is being designed by inept idiots.
MOtorboat
12-27-2016, 01:39 PM
Other than the coaches not calling many runs?
We do certain things well and then abandon them and just have Siemian drop back 5 steps and get pummeled. It is infuriating to watch these coaches with their inept playcalling.
Siemian or Lynch won't matter when the gameplan is being designed by inept idiots.
They should have called more, no doubt. Would have helped if it had been a one score game at the half too. But can't blame the run game for Siemian's poor performance this week.
They should have called more, no doubt. Would have helped if it had been a one score game at the half too. But can't blame the run game for Siemian's poor performance this week.
No, his performance was bad. But it could have been helped by the coaches having an actual game plan that helped him out. And that is my major point, Lynch is going to have the same problems if dealt this same staff and offense gameplan.
Both QBs need time to develop. Neither QBs are going to be inspiring leaders right out the gate. Neither are going to be able to read defenses every time and always know where the blitz is coming from (that is why a good oline who can call out protection from the line is a plus...but we don't have one), both are going to need a leash while they grow. All of these things will be magnified if we stick with Kubiak, his staff, and his offense.
Freyaka
12-27-2016, 03:12 PM
The Broncos averaged 4.6 yards per carry against the Chiefs. There was no problem with the run game.
Man and people say I cherry pick stats! Did you forget about the part where we ran the ball 14 times and threw for 43? That seems like an important fact you are just glossing over there...
If anything that just shows how utterly inept this coaching staff is... "hey look, we're running the ball well for once, let's throw the ball some more."
Al Wilson 4 Mayor
12-27-2016, 03:17 PM
The run game went out the window when we gave up three touchdowns in the first quarter.
MOtorboat
12-27-2016, 03:42 PM
Man and people say I cherry pick stats! Did you forget about the part where we ran the ball 14 times and threw for 43? That seems like an important fact you are just glossing over there...
If anything that just shows how utterly inept this coaching staff is... "hey look, we're running the ball well for once, let's throw the ball some more."
I didn't gloss over it. The running game wasn't the problem. The coaches not calling enough runs is a legitimate complaint. But the run game and the coaches didn't fail to complete 60 percent of their passes and lead the offense to 26 points in the last 14 quarters. No, Trevor Siemian did that.
MOtorboat
12-27-2016, 03:43 PM
The run game went out the window when we gave up three touchdowns in the first quarter.
And yet, if McManus makes the field goal at the end of the half, instead of someone (whoever it was) calling for one of the dumbest timed fakes I've ever seen, it would have been a one score game. And did it not remain 21-10 until the fourth?
NightTerror218
12-27-2016, 03:44 PM
Man and people say I cherry pick stats! Did you forget about the part where we ran the ball 14 times and threw for 43? That seems like an important fact you are just glossing over there...
If anything that just shows how utterly inept this coaching staff is... "hey look, we're running the ball well for once, let's throw the ball some more."
Hard to run a lot when playing from behind by 2 TD in first quarter and trailing by 3 scores most of the game.
The running game was viable for most of the game. Even if it was a two score game, you were more reliably moving the ball running it. While that might be an indictment on the offense, it was certainly true then. Ironically, if you kept running it, and they don't respect it, you keep moving the ball. If they do respect it then you at least get to open up the passing game a little bit more. It was horrible QB play and horrible playcalling in tandem.
NightTerror218
12-27-2016, 03:47 PM
The running game was viable for most of the game. Even if it was a two score game, you were more reliably moving the ball running it. While that might be an indictment on the offense, it was certainly true then. Ironically, if you kept running it, and they don't respect it, you keep moving the ball. If they do respect it then you at least get to open up the passing game a little bit more. It was horrible QB play and horrible playcalling in tandem.
Hard to not default what has worked in past. Passi g game has worked and running game has not. Even though most season passing game has sucked too until 4th quarter.
I take issue with the notion that our passing game has 'worked'. I know what you mean, but he's a HC/OC who at this stage in his career should realize when to run the ball.
NightTerror218
12-27-2016, 03:50 PM
I take issue with the notion that our passing game has 'worked'. I know what you mean, but he's a HC/OC who at this stage in his career should realize when to run the ball.
By worked i mean when you put our running game and passing game side by side.
Freyaka
12-27-2016, 04:00 PM
The running game was viable for most of the game. Even if it was a two score game, you were more reliably moving the ball running it. While that might be an indictment on the offense, it was certainly true then. Ironically, if you kept running it, and they don't respect it, you keep moving the ball. If they do respect it then you at least get to open up the passing game a little bit more. It was horrible QB play and horrible playcalling in tandem.
^^^this dude gets it
Al Wilson 4 Mayor
12-27-2016, 04:32 PM
And yet, if McManus makes the field goal at the end of the half, instead of someone (whoever it was) calling for one of the dumbest timed fakes I've ever seen, it would have been a one score game. And did it not remain 21-10 until the fourth?
You have a valid point. I can only assume to know why they gave up on the run game. Maybe they felt as though the defense was so porous that day they needed to try and score quickly. I have no idea...
Cugel
12-28-2016, 02:29 PM
The run game went out the window when we gave up three touchdowns in the first quarter.
That's the real problem with stats. People can quote stats without bothering to ask "what's happening in the game". Obviously if the team falls behind by more than 2 scores they have no choice but to try and get back in the game, and that means passing the ball downfield more looking for quick scores.
That's the real problem with stats. People can quote stats without bothering to ask "what's happening in the game". Obviously if the team falls behind by more than 2 scores they have no choice but to try and get back in the game, and that means passing the ball downfield more looking for quick scores.
In the third quarter when we were down by two scores Jon Gruden literally goes "If you're Denver, the running game is still on the table."
You can run the ball down by two scores. The problem with statistics is when people don't know how to actually use them. On that we agree.
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