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spikerman
12-18-2016, 11:46 PM
When the beaten Broncos spilled into the locker room, before the door was opened to reporters and other outsiders, coach Gary Kubiak gathered his players and asked if anyone wanted to address the team. Veteran left tackle Russell Okung, who signed with the Broncos last March, stepped forward to speak, and cornerback Aqib Talib strongly objected. According to several witnesses, that set off a spirited shouting match between the team's defensive backs and offensive linemen -- one which Kubiak had to diffuse before it turned ugly.


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000759572/article/denver-broncos-frustrations-boil-over-after-loss-to-patriots

King87
12-18-2016, 11:48 PM
Broncos secondary = best in the game and one of the best secondaries ever.

Broncos offensive line = pathetic pile of dookie. Not sure if it is an all-time shitshow, but one of the worst in the league.

I don't blame Talib for going off. He probably shouldn't have done it. But knowing that the offense is killing you, and knowing that the line is the biggest part of that, I wouldn't want to hear any lineman say shit.

Jaded
12-19-2016, 12:58 AM
The lockerroom probably fractured a long time ago.

MOtorboat
12-19-2016, 01:18 AM
Broncos secondary = best in the game and one of the best secondaries ever.

Broncos offensive line = pathetic pile of dookie. Not sure if it is an all-time shitshow, but one of the worst in the league.

I don't blame Talib for going off. He probably shouldn't have done it. But knowing that the offense is killing you, and knowing that the line is the biggest part of that, I wouldn't want to hear any lineman say shit.

This is hard to process, because frankly we have no idea what the locker room looks like after a loss. But, I guess I don't even understand this as a motivational tactic by Kubiak (but I fully admit it's possible he does this after every loss). Its long past confessionals from the group that ****** the game up.

King87
12-19-2016, 01:21 AM
It might have been a classic rah-rah lets rally around one another type shit. No one wants to rally around an offensive line that shits the bed and then rolls around in it.

Jaded
12-19-2016, 01:33 AM
It might have been a classic rah-rah lets rally around one another type shit. No one wants to rally around an offensive line that shits the bed and then rolls around in it.

Nobody wants to hear that passed (past?) the high school level, especially if it's coming from a position that is so thoroughly inept.

Btw, speaking of Okung, if you want a good laugh go watch the that holding call on him that put Denver in 2nd and 18 on the opening 3rd qtr drive. It's criminal to make that call, but such is NFL Officiating.

Edmonton Bronco Fan
12-19-2016, 01:51 AM
Good. The defense should be pissed off at an offense that can't help the team, itself and more often than not strands the defense on the field for long portions of the game.

I hope that Talib bitch slapped Norwood a few times too.

Jaded
12-19-2016, 02:01 AM
There was a 2nd and 10 play where the Broncos lined up 3-wide with a TE inline in shotgun and ran the ball vs a SIX man defensive front and got 2 ****ing yards. It was the play before DT dropped an easy/perfect pass.

This happens every week, this is the playcalling that the Broncos own OL have campaigned against, saying "it's not working". It doesn't get any easier than a six on six run play. Utterly pathetic.

It isn't a stretch to suggest that practicing against the Broncos OL has contributed to the defenses issue at stopping the run. They play against this group all week and must think they're invincible.

wayninja
12-19-2016, 03:09 AM
I can't say I'm surprised by this. My only surprise is how tame it seems to be. This was basically the season. This is the superbowl, effectively, and 3 points at home?

Yeah, I'd be pissed to.

dogfish
12-19-2016, 03:10 AM
"We did dominate them," Ward said of the Patriots, "but when they don't have to pass, No Fly kinda gets eradicated, so we've got to try to make plays in other areas ... strip the ball, whatever. But it's tough when they don't have to pass the ball.

"You've got to be in a position to make plays, but teams don't even have to throw the ball on us. If they're not in a position to throw, it's hard to get an interception. And even when they run, their running backs have two hands on the ball, so it's hard to make plays (against) the run."

#NoNeedToFlyZone

Northman
12-19-2016, 04:22 AM
Technically, Denver could win their 2 remaining games and still make the playoffs so not all hope is lost. Frankly, im surprised NE didnt beat us by a bigger margin but i can understand why the defense is a little more than frustrated at this point.

spikerman
12-19-2016, 06:43 AM
if you told me before the season started that the Patriots would come to Denver and score 16 points, Brady would not throw for many yards, and Blount would be held in check, I would wonder how badly the Broncos blew them out. Now, with the offense we have seen this year, I'm not the least bit surprised that it's a loss, and it wasn't even close.

Valar Morghulis
12-19-2016, 08:21 AM
if you told me before the season started that the Patriots would come to Denver and score 16 points, Brady would not throw for many yards, and Blount would be held in check, I would wonder how badly the Broncos blew them out. Now, with the offense we have seen this year, I'm not the least bit surprised that it's a loss, and it wasn't even close.

Yeah, if you offered me the option to accept 16 pts before the game, I would have bit your hand off

tripp
12-19-2016, 09:29 AM
O-line was garbage last year too, I suspect the only thing that stopped the defense from snapping last year was the fact that Peyton Manning was in the locker room. We lack leadership on Offense. DT will never be the leader of the Offense, that's not who he is. Trevor Siemian is too young and too inexperienced to be that guy. Offense is lost, and Kubiak has not solved the problem. Every week I think to myself, is this the week we find our offense and score 24+ pts? Nope, we retract.

Northman
12-19-2016, 09:38 AM
O-line was garbage last year too, I suspect the only thing that stopped the defense from snapping last year was the fact that Peyton Manning was in the locker room. We lack leadership on Offense. DT will never be the leader of the Offense, that's not who he is. Trevor Siemian is too young and too inexperienced to be that guy. Offense is lost, and Kubiak has not solved the problem. Every week I think to myself, is this the week we find our offense and score 24+ pts? Nope, we retract.


Pretty much my feeling. No one has taken charge of that offense and normally QB is where you go to look but if that guy isnt that type of player than someone else needs to step up but i just dont see anyone on offense willing to be that guy.

broncofaninfla
12-19-2016, 09:39 AM
The defense did their part, the offense, coaching and even Elway didn't. The OL has been garbage for two years now, this should have been addressed. The play calling was awful and Kubes fielding Norwood should cost him his job. Inexcusable.

gregbroncs
12-19-2016, 09:59 AM
The defense did their part, the offense, coaching and even Elway didn't. The OL has been garbage for two years now, this should have been addressed. The play calling was awful and Kubes fielding Norwood should cost him his job. Inexcusable.They attempted to address it. It just didn't work. Okung and Stephenson were both signed to help the OL and they are both under performing right along side the other OL that are playing terrible. Our RT position is trash right now, nobody we put in at that position has played better than Schofield did last year.

silkamilkamonico
12-19-2016, 11:09 AM
They attempted to address it. It just didn't work. Okung and Stephenson were both signed to help the OL and they are both under performing right along side the other OL that are playing terrible. Our RT position is trash right now, nobody we put in at that position has played better than Schofield did last year.

May be time to start looking at the system/coaches, playcalling, things around those players. Hopefully something is at least done about the coaches "teaching" them everyday.

Cugel
12-19-2016, 11:20 AM
O-line was garbage last year too, I suspect the only thing that stopped the defense from snapping last year was the fact that Peyton Manning was in the locker room. We lack leadership on Offense. DT will never be the leader of the Offense, that's not who he is. Trevor Siemian is too young and too inexperienced to be that guy. Offense is lost, and Kubiak has not solved the problem. Every week I think to myself, is this the week we find our offense and score 24+ pts? Nope, we retract.

This is what Stink was saying on 104.3 The Fan today "this would have happened last year except for the awesome respect due to Peyton Manning." Last year Peyton was the unquestioned leader of the team. Everybody knew he wasn't producing because he was injured, but he was an obvious Hall of Famer career, only 2 years removed from setting all the NFL Passing records and taking the team to the SB, so nobody could say anything.

There is nobody on this offense who can say that. There's no point even discussing it. Four of the five OL will be fired after the season. Just like last year. Just blow it up and start over. Maybe Matt Paradis sticks around because his performance is due to a hip injury he's toughing out. But, what was Russell Okung doing trying to address the team? Okung will be one of the January cuts. He essentially has a 1 year "prove it" deal and he proved he sucks - just like Chad Brown was saying in July.

Brown apparently worked with Seattle during the off-season and said Okung was beaten like a gong by Seattle defenders. That's why they let him walk rather than re-signing him.


"Max Garcia was awful yesterday. Just awful. Donald Stevenson was awful yesterday. Awful. They already took out the sacrificial lamb. They benched Stevenson, but it only empowered him. Last year you cold look at the OL and point your finger at Michael Schofield. But this year it's all four of them. They tried Ty Sambrailo at RG and he was terrible. Benching a guy as a motivation factor only works if you have someone behind him who can play better. But Stevenson can say "you want to bench me? What have you got behind me? I'm still your best option."

Matt Paradis looked like a 100 year old man out there. That dude can't walk. He literally cannot move with that hip injury. If you get on his edge you're gone. It's like when Randy Moss used to say "if you're even, I'm leavin'" If a defender gets to the edge on him, he's hitting the QB. And it shows you the lack of depth on OL this year." -- Stink

Jaded
12-19-2016, 11:27 AM
Pretty much my feeling. No one has taken charge of that offense and normally QB is where you go to look but if that guy isnt that type of player than someone else needs to step up but i just dont see anyone on offense willing to be that guy.

Sounds like Okung was willing to be that guy until he got dealt with. :D

Jaded
12-19-2016, 11:31 AM
May be time to start looking at the system/coaches, playcalling, things around those players. Hopefully something is at least done about the coaches "teaching" them everyday.

Time to start?

We've been blaming the system/coaches/playcalling for two years.

GEM
12-19-2016, 11:44 AM
Nobody wants to hear that passed (past?) the high school level, especially if it's coming from a position that is so thoroughly inept.

Btw, speaking of Okung, if you want a good laugh go watch the that holding call on him that put Denver in 2nd and 18 on the opening 3rd qtr drive. It's criminal to make that call, but such is NFL Officiating.

Especially when on the next series the Pats olineman had Sylvester Williams around the throat doing circles with him and they didn't call shit.

Hawgdriver
12-19-2016, 11:46 AM
Technically, Denver could win their 2 remaining games and still make the playoffs so not all hope is lost. Frankly, im surprised NE didnt beat us by a bigger margin but i can understand why the defense is a little more than frustrated at this point.

As critical as we are, yesterday was a completely winnable game against a SB-caliber team. If Denver could get its shit in a sock, the team has a puncher's shot at the title.

Jaded
12-19-2016, 11:58 AM
Especially when on the next series the Pats olineman had Sylvester Williams around the throat doing circles with him and they didn't call shit.

Oh GEM, watch the replay of that game (I'm assuming you went to the game again), there were so many legitimate calls that went uncalled. The P*triots OL started holding the defenses by the collar, that's a new one, it'd be interesting to see if the Broncos would be called for that if they tried to copy it.

Miller got a holding call that was weak af, he gets far worse than that on every single play. I still can't find the defensive hold on Sylvester Williams. It's worth noting that most of these penalties on the OL negated big plays.

underrated29
12-19-2016, 12:02 PM
Okung will be one of the January cuts.






No he wont be.
As average as he has been for us there is NOT, repeated NOT ANYONE CLOSE on the market to his skill set. So if you think he sucks then be prepared to lube up your backside because all of the other LTs that are available are worse. By a lot. It is not even close. Okung is here to stay. Get used to it. We will probably draft an OT or two, but he will be retained.

Jaded
12-19-2016, 12:15 PM
No he wont be.
As average as he has been for us there is NOT, repeated NOT ANYONE CLOSE on the market to his skill set. So if you think he sucks then be prepared to lube up your backside because all of the other LTs that are available are worse. By a lot. It is not even close. Okung is here to stay. Get used to it. We will probably draft an OT or two, but he will be retained.

I hope you're right, he's not the problem.

Cugel
12-19-2016, 12:19 PM
Let's be honest about this problem, Broncos fans. The entire offense has simply not worked at all since mid way through the 2014 season. Since then they've blown up the offense, and substituted a run happy offense for the Peyton Manning Offense, then when that only led to a 1st round playoff loss to the Colts, they blew up the OL and started over, adding guys like Paradis, Schofield and Max Garcia. Last year the offense was pretty bad and a real drag on the defense.

The Broncos won the SB with great defense and virtually no offense at all. That kind of thing is non-sustainable as we're seeing this year. The defense isn't as good against the run as last year without Malik Jackson and Vance Walker. So, the offense would have to be substantially better for them to make a run at a playoff berth. And its worse, not better.

Then they blew up the OL again after the SB, dumping the entire starting week 1 OL.

Now the offense is worse than ever so they're going to have to do it all over again. Rebuild the OL from scratch for the 3rd year in a row.

On a normal team they would FIRE OC Rick Dennison and OL coach Clancy Barone. But those guys are Kubiak's friends, so he won't let them be fired. And they desperately need new talented coaches at those positions, because they aren't getting the job done.

In the NFL it's performance based. You can't have guys who can't do their jobs and yet can't get fired due to nepotism and being pals with the Head Coach.

Cugel
12-19-2016, 12:40 PM
underrated29
No he wont be.
As average as he has been for us there is NOT, repeated NOT ANYONE CLOSE on the market to his skill set. So if you think he sucks then be prepared to lube up your backside because all of the other LTs that are available are worse. By a lot. It is not even close. Okung is here to stay. Get used to it. We will probably draft an OT or two, but he will be retained.

I would say that you're right about everything you've said about Okung. My perspective was thinking about his contract. His contract was essentially a one-year, non-guaranteed contract, with some serious contract escalators for 2017 and subsequent years.


2017 Contract details by year: Base Salary: $2,000,000 Roster Bonus: $9,500,000 Option Bonus (automatic if the Broncos pick up his contract option for 2017): $200,000 Off-season workout bonus: $1,000,000 TOTAL: $11,700,000 (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/denver-broncos/russell-okung-6515/)



The contract isn't guaranteed, so Okung could be cut loose. The team would prefer to keep him for lack of a better option as you say, but at $11,500,000 for 2017? That's elite LT money, and he hasn't played to remotely that level.

To give you a comparison, Hall of Fame LT Joe Thomas (who the Broncos refused to trade for when they could have) is making $9.5 million in 2016.

[quote]If he sticks around for all five years of the contract, Okung could earn $31 million in salary, $20 million in roster bonuses, $1 million with the 2016 workout bonus and another $1 million with the 2017 option.

The team is going to have to tell Okung that they are re-doing his deal to something more in line with his talent - which would be around $5-6 million, not $11 M.

How's he going to respond? If the Broncos decline to exercise their option and guarantee him $11M for 2017 he could walk.

He might stay and accept less $, but he might not. There are Broncos players who have left in FA rather than accept less $, even if they weren't worth the $ they were offered. Ryan Clady is a perfect example. He's getting $5,500,000 from the Jets for 2016, and that's all he's guaranteed. He would have gotten more than that in guarantees from the Broncos, but taking a huge pay cut was too humiliating for him so he walked. He would rather play for less $ for some other team than take a cut from the Broncos.

It's a pride thing. I was thinking Okung could well do the same thing. Hopefully not, but he could.

The Broncos could also bite the bullet and trade for a veteran OL, even if that means giving up a draft pick. They've tried drafting guys and it hasn't worked at all. Ty Sambrailo now looks like a busted pick.

underrated29
12-19-2016, 12:46 PM
I would say that you're right about everything you've said about Okung. My perspective was thinking about his contract. His contract was essentially a one-year, non-guaranteed contract, with some serious contract escalators for 2017 and subsequent years.

[QUOTE]

The contract isn't guaranteed, so Okung could be cut loose. The team would prefer to keep him for lack of a better option as you say, but at $11,500,000 for 2017? That's elite LT money, and he hasn't played to remotely that level.

To give you a comparison, Hall of Fame LT Joe Thomas (who the Broncos refused to trade for when they could have) is making $9.5 million in 2016.



The team is going to have to tell Okung that they are re-doing his deal to something more in line with his talent - which would be around $5-6 million, not $11 M.

How's he going to respond? If the Broncos decline to exercise their option and guarantee him $11M for 2017 he could walk.

He might stay and accept less $, but he might not. There are Broncos players who have left in FA rather than accept less $, even if they weren't worth the $ they were offered. Ryan Clady is a perfect example. He's getting $5,500,000 from the Jets for 2016, and that's all he's guaranteed. He would have gotten more than that in guarantees from the Broncos, but taking a huge pay cut was too humiliating for him so he walked. He would rather play for less $ for some other team than take a cut from the Broncos.

It's a pride thing. I was thinking Okung could well do the same thing. Hopefully not, but he could.

The Broncos could also bite the bullet and trade for a veteran OL, even if that means giving up a draft pick. They've tried drafting guys and it hasn't worked at all. Ty Sambrailo now looks like a busted pick.

I get you now.
Yes, the way I see it he will have to be paid less and I do not think any other team will pay him nearly close to what he thought/wanted when he did his deal. Id sure love Joe T!

Cugel
12-19-2016, 01:22 PM
I get you now.
Yes, the way I see it he will have to be paid less and I do not think any other team will pay him nearly close to what he thought/wanted when he did his deal. Id sure love Joe T!

You're right, no other team will pay Okung $11M, not after he sucked for the garbage Broncos OL. But, like Ryan Clady, he could well choose to walk. His deal was ridiculed by NFL Agents as being absurdly team-friendly. He didn't have an agent and negotiated his own deal - which had ZERO guaranteed money.

He was betting on his ability proving his worth to the Broncos, who would then pay him elite LT money like he wanted (and which Seattle refused to give him when his contract expired).

Well, will he accept that he's mediocre at best and that he's only worth about 1/2 the money he's due under his contract for 2017?

That is not automatic. He could very well decide to walk. After all, he came here to win championships, and the Denver Broncos look a LONG way from competing for a championship.

The team has an elite defense, but for how long? And how long will it take to get the offense straightened out?

We don't even know if Paxton Lynch is a quality NFL starting QB, let alone an elite QB who could lead this team to a SB. He might be a bust for all we know. I could barely stand watching him this season. Of course he could do much better with more experience, so we can't give up on him.

But, this could be a mult-year rebuilding effort for this offense. Who knows how long?

WARHORSE
12-19-2016, 02:28 PM
I forget where I heard it, perhaps others do.....but Peyton Manning hated this offense.


I got to say it looks pretty bleak. And yes.....fire the Oline.


With all that said......I love what Im seeing from Siemian. He gets better each week. Hes not a finished product by any means but hes seeing things.

Reps will bring him to a higher level.


And Forsett is a blessing.

NightTerror218
12-19-2016, 02:43 PM
The offense will get scraped again. Big issue is no OL draft picks have worked out besides paradis. If we arw lucky schofield is a decent RG. But still 3 holes.

I know FA has a lot of options but most will prob be resigned. Teams just dont let good OL walk....unless your the broncos. Thinking of orlando franklin.

Denver Native (Carol)
12-19-2016, 04:44 PM
Broncos leaders keep team united
After a frustrating day against the Patriots, the Broncos say they are sticking together as a team, thanks in part to veteran leadership in the locker room.

http://www.denverbroncos.com/multimedia/videos/Broncos-leaders-keep-team-united/1edac358-3bdb-44c9-9965-1583ac874289

King87
12-19-2016, 08:50 PM
No he wont be.
As average as he has been for us there is NOT, repeated NOT ANYONE CLOSE on the market to his skill set. So if you think he sucks then be prepared to lube up your backside because all of the other LTs that are available are worse. By a lot. It is not even close. Okung is here to stay. Get used to it. We will probably draft an OT or two, but he will be retained.

Whitworth is ancient but hey, maybe he could follow me to Denver.

Jaded
12-19-2016, 09:09 PM
Whitworth is ancient but hey, maybe he could follow me to Denver.

I was gonna ask you bout him, he's got a year or two left?

King87
12-19-2016, 09:12 PM
I was gonna ask you bout him, he's got a year or two left?

Last I saw he was still pulling. He was also a Pro Bowl caliber guard.

Jaded
12-19-2016, 09:12 PM
I forget where I heard it, perhaps others do.....but Peyton Manning hated this offense.


I got to say it looks pretty bleak. And yes.....fire the Oline.


With all that said......I love what Im seeing from Siemian. He gets better each week. Hes not a finished product by any means but hes seeing things.

Reps will bring him to a higher level.


And Forsett is a blessing.

Of course Manning hated this offense, he spent his entire career in the same system and has never run anything but a pure spread.

King87
12-19-2016, 09:14 PM
Of course Manning hated this offense, he spent his entire career in the same system and has never run anything but a pure spread.

They ran the ball a lot in Indy when they had edge, and they won a SB with a decent running game in the playoffs. I'm not sure if that means I disagree with your overall conclusion, but as a Manning fanboy....I had to...

Jaded....

I miss him, man.

Jaded
12-19-2016, 09:17 PM
They ran the ball a lot in Indy when they had edge, and they won a SB with a decent running game in the playoffs. I'm not sure if that means I disagree with your overall conclusion, but as a Manning fanboy....I had to...

Jaded....

I miss him, man.

You tell the sweetest lies.

King87
12-19-2016, 09:19 PM
It's true, bb.

underrated29
12-19-2016, 10:39 PM
Don't you have anther g...zeitler ? Who is it....I feel like you have a good one that is a FA...

King87
12-19-2016, 10:54 PM
Don't you have anther g...zeitler ? Who is it....I feel like you have a good one that is a FA...

The Broncos do not have any good free agent guards. I don't know what you're talking about?

dogfish
12-20-2016, 12:40 AM
if we go free agency, grabbing TJ lang or chance warmack at guard is the best option. . . then draft a couple OTs high. . . if we're going to get a vet OT, trade is probably the best option-- though i wouldn't mind reiff from detroit at right tackle. . .

CoachChaz
12-20-2016, 01:51 AM
No he wont be.
As average as he has been for us there is NOT, repeated NOT ANYONE CLOSE on the market to his skill set. So if you think he sucks then be prepared to lube up your backside because all of the other LTs that are available are worse. By a lot. It is not even close. Okung is here to stay. Get used to it. We will probably draft an OT or two, but he will be retained.

Id take Terron Armstead or Cordy Glenn over Okung.

sneakers
12-20-2016, 07:50 AM
Broncos secondary = best in the game and one of the best secondaries ever.

Broncos offensive line = pathetic pile of dookie. Not sure if it is an all-time shitshow, but one of the worst in the league.

I don't blame Talib for going off. He probably shouldn't have done it. But knowing that the offense is killing you, and knowing that the line is the biggest part of that, I wouldn't want to hear any lineman say shit.

I would still take the o-line if I had to bet on who would win in a fight tho

Hawgdriver
12-20-2016, 11:27 AM
I would still take the o-line if I had to bet on who would win in a fight tho

I'd take Talib.

Buff
12-20-2016, 11:31 AM
I'd take Talib.

I ain't never bettin against Talib in a street fight. And most certainly not against our sorry ass o-line.

Northman
12-20-2016, 11:51 AM
Just hand Talib a gun, problem solved. :laugh:

Freyaka
12-20-2016, 12:01 PM
I'd take Talib.

Talib's more likely to be packing...I'd take Talib too!

Freyaka
12-20-2016, 12:03 PM
Honestly I don't blame them, I'm amazed this hasn't happened sooner. Two years now we've watched the defense carry this sorry ass offense...I'm amazed they haven't lost their cool sooner.

What I'd like to see to finish the season is for Kubiak to put together an aggressive offensive gameplan. At this point, if you don't win, you are out. Grow a pair and play aggressive...This non-stop conservative BS is what got us in this mess and it will not get us out.

I want to see Jordan Norwood inactive or cut from the team, he's a cancer and serves no positive benefit to the team. And I'd like to see the entire offense play with some freaking fire... You've been called out as the giant pile of feces you are, let that sink in and prove you can be better! Act like you give a damn out there...

MOtorboat
12-20-2016, 12:05 PM
Just hand Talib a gun, problem solved. :laugh:

I don't think shooting one of our defensive backs is the solution.

Northman
12-20-2016, 01:04 PM
I don't think shooting one of our defensive backs is the solution.

Way to miss out on the joke no-fun-Mo.

Hawgdriver
12-20-2016, 01:08 PM
I missed it, North. Well played.

MOtorboat
12-20-2016, 01:08 PM
Way to miss out on the joke no-fun-Mo.

Way to miss out on my addition to your joke.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
12-20-2016, 01:12 PM
Mo was pointing out Talib is more likely to hit himself with the bullet. 😂

Northman
12-20-2016, 01:31 PM
Mo was pointing out Talib is more likely to hit himself with the bullet. 

Oh jesus christ Al...... lmao

Freyaka
12-20-2016, 01:37 PM
Way to miss out on my addition to your joke.

I think all of us missed that until Al pointed it out...well played...

BroncoJoe
12-20-2016, 01:40 PM
NTL>MO in being funny.

dogfish
12-20-2016, 02:28 PM
Id take Terron Armstead or Cordy Glenn over Okung.

is armstead going to be a free agent? i'll take him over okung's sorry ass all day long. . .


edit; just looked it up, and both glenn and armstead were re-signed to big extensions earlier in the year. . .

dogfish
12-20-2016, 02:29 PM
NTL>MO in being funny.

well that was an unprovoked and nasty assault on a tuesday afternoon. . .

Freyaka
12-20-2016, 02:45 PM
well that was an unprovoked and nasty assault on a tuesday afternoon. . .

It's sad that our posters have more passion and fight in them than our entire offense.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
12-20-2016, 02:48 PM
is armstead going to be a free agent? i'll take him over okung's sorry ass all day long. . .

My brother in law is a die hard Seahawks fan. He told me the other day he thought Okung was the most overrated lineman Seattle ever had.

Freyaka
12-20-2016, 02:55 PM
is armstead going to be a free agent? i'll take him over okung's sorry ass all day long. . .

Armstead is scheduled to become a FA as is Glenn and Ryan Schraeder from the Falcons on the other side of the tackles.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/offensive-line/

There's a list of everyone scheduled to hit FA for offensive line this season. Riley Reiff would be another good one. Matt Kalil would probably be better as well. Jake Long might not be terrible to look at despite his age.

There's a few solid options at every position that we could consider.

dogfish
12-20-2016, 04:21 PM
It's sad that our posters have more passion and fight in them than our entire offense.


joe is sassy. . . unfortunately, he's only about half the size of an OL-- otherwise, we could sign him up. . . that line really needs some attitude. . .



Armstead is scheduled to become a FA as is Glenn and Ryan Schraeder from the Falcons on the other side of the tackles.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/offensive-line/

There's a list of everyone scheduled to hit FA for offensive line this season. Riley Reiff would be another good one. Matt Kalil would probably be better as well. Jake Long might not be terrible to look at despite his age.

There's a few solid options at every position that we could consider.

okay, what am i missing? that's the same list i was looking at, and i don't see armstead on it anywhere. . . :confused:

Freyaka
12-20-2016, 04:42 PM
joe is sassy. . . unfortunately, he's only about half the size of an OL-- otherwise, we could sign him up. . . that line really needs some attitude. . .




okay, what am i missing? that's the same list i was looking at, and i don't see armstead on it anywhere. . . :confused:

I found Armstead on another list of top 2017 FA. It's possible he got resigned and I missed it, if so, cross him off the list.

dogfish
12-20-2016, 04:46 PM
I found Armstead on another list of top 2017 FA. It's possible he got resigned and I missed it, if so, cross him off the list.

yep, just checked, and they re-signed him long term (http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2016/05/terron_armstead_contract.html). . .

khalil is interesting, but he's been hurt a lot. . . if whitworth has anything left in the tank, he'd be an ideal one- or two-year rental. . . he's exactly the kind of player we need on the line-- an accomplished vet who would bring instant credibility, accountability and toughness (things we lost along with mathis and vasquez). . . i'm not so sure that he's the guy who will come in and make a major improvement overall by his personal play, though. . . you'd want a quality draft pick to develop behind him, and in a perfect world you'd still want to land a younger, impact player inside, as well. . . two FAs and a high pick isn't too much to invest in the line at this point, at all. . . that should leave money to sign a nosetackle, and high picks for an inside 'backer and a running back. . .

hell, just do something to make it better. . . please! i'm not at all opposed to a coaching change there either, but i won't hold my breath. . . some type of upgrade in personnel is critical, though, regardless of who's coaching them. . .

Freyaka
12-20-2016, 06:31 PM
yep, just checked, and they re-signed him long term (http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2016/05/terron_armstead_contract.html). . .

khalil is interesting, but he's been hurt a lot. . . if whitworth has anything left in the tank, he'd be an ideal one- or two-year rental. . . he's exactly the kind of player we need on the line-- an accomplished vet who would bring instant credibility, accountability and toughness (things we lost along with mathis and vasquez). . . i'm not so sure that he's the guy who will come in and make a major improvement overall by his personal play, though. . . you'd want a quality draft pick to develop behind him, and in a perfect world you'd still want to land a younger, impact player inside, as well. . . two FAs and a high pick isn't too much to invest in the line at this point, at all. . . that should leave money to sign a nosetackle, and high picks for an inside 'backer and a running back. . .

hell, just do something to make it better. . . please! i'm not at all opposed to a coaching change there either, but i won't hold my breath. . . some type of upgrade in personnel is critical, though, regardless of who's coaching them. . .

I think the best we can do is sign interior linemen, draft early talent in o-line at tackle and hope this scouting department manages to do a better job than they have in recent drafts... and then sign so vets for depth.

weazel
12-28-2016, 11:04 AM
I never watched the game but the highlights sure made it look like the defense gave up the other night. Probably though **** it, who cares, the offense won't score more than 3 points anyway.

Mike
12-28-2016, 11:08 AM
I never watched the game but the highlights sure made it look like the defense gave up the other night. Probably though **** it, who cares, the offense won't score more than 3 points anyway.

I think their gameplan was just devised by coaches who actually looked at tape and identified the other team's weaknesses and then exploited it.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
12-28-2016, 11:11 AM
I never watched the game but the highlights sure made it look like the defense gave up the other night. Probably though **** it, who cares, the offense won't score more than 3 points anyway.

It was pretty ugly. KC had 240 yards of offense and 21 points by the end of the 1st quarter. The front seven looked bad. The entire offense looked bad. It was the ugliest game I've seen in Denver since pre-Manning.

Valar Morghulis
12-28-2016, 11:38 AM
It was pretty ugly. KC had 240 yards of offense and 21 points by the end of the 1st quarter. The front seven looked bad. The entire offense looked bad. It was the ugliest game I've seen in Denver since pre-Manning.

Was it not in Kansas?

weazel
12-28-2016, 11:42 AM
Was it not in Kansas?

**** dorothy, we're not in Kansas anymore

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
12-28-2016, 11:42 AM
Was it not in Kansas?

Negative, it was in Missouri, but I like where you're going with it.

King87
12-28-2016, 11:45 AM
There is a small child crying in my house, my little niece. As she wails, literally kicking and screaming, I can only think of Elway's comment. I am seeing kicking and screaming now. I did not see it on our last game.


I wonder if and when that becomes an issue.

Freyaka
12-28-2016, 12:25 PM
Was it not in Kansas?

Technically no...The Chiefs aren't a Kansas team. I have to constantly remind idiot chiefs fans of this when they ask "how did someone who lives in Kansas end up a Broncos fan, shouldn't you be a chiefs fan seeing as they are in the same state?"

Kansas doesn't have a professional football team...

Cugel
12-28-2016, 02:20 PM
My brother in law is a die hard Seahawks fan. He told me the other day he thought Okung was the most overrated lineman Seattle ever had.

Chad Brown was saying the same thing in the off-season. He knows a lot about Seattle because he actually has been a consultant with the Seahawks after his playing days with them. He said that Seattle's defenders routinely pushed Okung around, and that was why the Seahawks let him walk when he became a FA, despite his being a high first round draft choice for them. Normally, top 15 first round LTs are supposed to be elite. Teams lock them up for 10 years and never let them hit FA.

But, the Seahawks refused to consider re-signing him when his rookie contract expired. They were not unhappy to see him leave because they didn't think he was worth starting NFL LT money.

Unfortunately, it's not as if there are a lot of better options out there, either in the draft or in FA. And if by some chance a really good T becomes available, he will command just HUGE $ in FA since there are so many teams hurting for good OL these days.

It seems like with college offenses going to spread offense, fewer and fewer elite OL are coming out and lots of teams are looking.

Hawgdriver
12-28-2016, 06:08 PM
Chad Brown was saying the same thing in the off-season. He knows a lot about Seattle because he actually has been a consultant with the Seahawks after his playing days with them. He said that Seattle's defenders routinely pushed Okung around, and that was why the Seahawks let him walk when he became a FA, despite his being a high first round draft choice for them. Normally, top 15 first round LTs are supposed to be elite. Teams lock them up for 10 years and never let them hit FA.

But, the Seahawks refused to consider re-signing him when his rookie contract expired. They were not unhappy to see him leave because they didn't think he was worth starting NFL LT money.

Unfortunately, it's not as if there are a lot of better options out there, either in the draft or in FA. And if by some chance a really good T becomes available, he will command just HUGE $ in FA since there are so many teams hurting for good OL these days.

It seems like with college offenses going to spread offense, fewer and fewer elite OL are coming out and lots of teams are looking.

This, along with Stephenson, points to a blind spot in the Broncos' offensive line talent evaluation unit that I hope is corrected soon.

Valar Morghulis
12-29-2016, 03:06 AM
Was it not in Kansas? Just to clarify, when referring to the location the chiefs call home. Must always state Kansas CITY because just saying Kansas refers only to the the state. Is that correct?

MOtorboat
12-29-2016, 03:13 AM
Just to clarify, when referring to the location the chiefs call home. Must always state Kansas CITY because just saying Kansas refers only to the the state. Is that correct?

Basically, yeah. The Chiefs and Royals play in Missouri. Sporting KC plays in Kansas. Kansas City, Missouri, has the Eisenhower Sports Complex. Kansas City, Kansas, is the ghetto (or, one of them in the greater Kansas City metropolis).

Valar Morghulis
12-29-2016, 03:19 AM
Basically, yeah. The Chiefs and Royals play in Missouri. Sporting KC plays in Kansas. Kansas City, Missouri, has the Eisenhower Sports Complex. Kansas City, Kansas, is the ghetto (or, one of them in the greater Kansas City metropolis).

I knew the chiefs played in Missouri, it was something that I never understood as a kid.

Did you live near the ghetto when you were in MO?

MOtorboat
12-29-2016, 03:23 AM
I knew the chiefs played in Missouri, it was something that I never understood as a kid.

Did you live near the ghetto when you were in MO?

I lived about 30 miles from the suburbs in what we call a bedroom community, so no.

Valar Morghulis
12-29-2016, 03:28 AM
I lived about 30 miles from the suburbs in what we call a bedroom community, so no.

I just had to Google that. I. Have never lived more than ten miles from where I work. Usually I have lived within a few miles.

Freyaka
12-29-2016, 09:45 AM
I just had to Google that. I. Have never lived more than ten miles from where I work. Usually I have lived within a few miles.

Must be nice... I'm not even in a big city (the city I work in is a city of about 50,000) and I still have to drive about 25 minutes to work because I live 4 miles outside of town and work on the other end of the city from where I live.

weazel
12-29-2016, 10:13 AM
I lived about 30 miles from the suburbs in what we call a bedroom community, so no.

Mo lived in a Dee-luxe apartment in the sky.

Cugel
12-29-2016, 11:41 AM
This, along with Stephenson, points to a blind spot in the Broncos' offensive line talent evaluation unit that I hope is corrected soon.

Well, we don't know how much influence Clancy Barone had on the "OL talent" the Broncos acquired, but getting rid of him is bound to help (assuming they find someone else who can do his job at least adequately).

Denver has some young linemen like Max Garcia and Michael Schofield who don't cost a lot and will probably be kept for that reason at least. They're not ever going to be great, but surely they can be developed better than they have been so far.

NightTerror218
12-29-2016, 01:12 PM
Well, we don't know how much influence Clancy Barone had on the "OL talent" the Broncos acquired, but getting rid of him is bound to help (assuming they find someone else who can do his job at least adequately).

Denver has some young linemen like Max Garcia and Michael Schofield who don't cost a lot and will probably be kept for that reason at least. They're not ever going to be great, but surely they can be developed better than they have been so far.

How much of garcias struggled impacted okung?

Valar Morghulis
12-29-2016, 01:52 PM
How much of garcias struggled impacted okung?

Or vice versa

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
12-29-2016, 01:55 PM
Or vice versa
Two negatives don't make a positive?

Valar Morghulis
12-29-2016, 02:27 PM
Two negatives don't make a positive?

No, that okung was so bad it impacted on Garcia who had looked good the year before

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
12-29-2016, 02:29 PM
No, that okung was so bad it impacted on Garcia who had looked good the year before

I don't remember Garcia looking good. I remember him not being able to surplant a veteran who kept getting steamrolled. ( I might be confused)

NightTerror218
12-29-2016, 04:53 PM
I don't remember Garcia looking good. I remember him not being able to surplant a veteran who kept getting steamrolled. ( I might be confused)

You mean vasquez. He could not stay healthy.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
12-29-2016, 04:56 PM
You mean vasquez. He could not stay healthy.

Didn't Garcia share time on the left last year? Im not thinking of Vasquez.

Valar Morghulis
12-29-2016, 04:59 PM
Didn't Garcia share time on the left last year? Im not thinking of Vasquez. He shared time with Evan Mathis

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
12-29-2016, 05:10 PM
He shared time with Evan Mathis

Thank you....Mathis was a matador last year.

King87
12-29-2016, 05:11 PM
Evan 'The Assassin' Mathis.

Nomad
12-29-2016, 05:46 PM
I was reading how some radio shock jock called Sanders a locker room cancer, and it has folks wound up ready to lynch mob the guy. :lol:

dogfish
12-29-2016, 05:51 PM
I was reading how some radio shock jock called Sanders a locker room cancer, and it has folks wound up ready to lynch mob the guy. :lol:

that was "dmac"-- better known around here as dbag. . . he's a pitiful, weaselly little bitch. . .

King87
12-29-2016, 05:56 PM
that was "dmac"-- better known around here as dbag. . . he's a pitiful, weaselly little bitch. . .

What is a Dmac and why does it exist?

dogfish
12-29-2016, 06:03 PM
What is a Dmac and why does it exist?

it's a weaselly radio show co-host, and it shouldn't. . .

MOtorboat
12-29-2016, 06:42 PM
I was reading how some radio shock jock called Sanders a locker room cancer, and it has folks wound up ready to lynch mob the guy. :lol:

DMac has done his job again. He's a radio guy. He's a professional troll.

Jaded
12-30-2016, 10:51 PM
Anyone who wants to can go watch All-22 and see that Sanders is a petulant child, he's been throwing fits from the day he signed with Denver.

King87
12-30-2016, 11:03 PM
Anyone who wants to can go watch All-22 and see that Sanders is a petulant child, he's been throwing fits from the day he signed with Denver.

What has he actually done?

Jaded
12-30-2016, 11:08 PM
What has he actually done?

He's my favorite player, him and Talib, but he's a bitch.

King87
12-30-2016, 11:10 PM
He's my favorite player, him and Talib, but he's a bitch.

What has he actually done? I'm not arguing. I want to know what he's done.

Jaded
12-30-2016, 11:15 PM
What has he actually done? I'm not arguing. I want to know what he's done.

Throws a fit, a real fit, when he doesn't get the ball or the pass is off the mark.

King87
12-30-2016, 11:27 PM
Throws a fit, a real fit, when he doesn't get the ball or the pass is off the mark.

So....he's a WR. YOU had ME worried for a MOMENT!!!!!!!111

Use more hashtags.

Cugel
12-31-2016, 06:31 AM
DMac has done his job again. He's a radio guy. He's a professional troll.

I heard his rant, and the reason for his position was really idiotic.

D-Mac logic: Sanders is a "locker-room cancer" because he's a selfish player because he banned talking to some reporter who criticized him. This somehow is supposed to matter to other players in the locker room? Most players look on the media as a kind of monster they have to deal with, but which nobody really likes. And Sanders was calling for the ball? OMG! A WR wanted more touches for an offense that was struggling. And that is a surprise how?

Media tempest in a tea-pot.

Cugel
12-31-2016, 06:35 AM
So....he's a WR. YOU had ME worried for a MOMENT!!!!!!!111

Use more hashtags.

Pretty much this. It's not like he's Terrell Owens out there. As Siemian grows in experience Sanders will tone that down. Elway and Manning would never tolerate a WR doing that. They'd tell the guy to cool his jets or they wouldn't throw him the ball. Manning would just ignore guys he didn't trust. It's easy for a QB to discipline WRs and get them in line. "Want me to throw you the ball? Behave."

Freyaka
01-03-2017, 01:33 PM
Anyone who wants to can go watch All-22 and see that Sanders is a petulant child, he's been throwing fits from the day he signed with Denver.

You aren't going to win many friends with that viewpoint, nor do I agree with you.

Freyaka
01-03-2017, 01:36 PM
Throws a fit, a real fit, when he doesn't get the ball or the pass is off the mark.

And yet he's one of the few players with a kicking and screaming attitude on offense...

Sounds like you listen to too much DMac. When you get your sports info from trolls you gotta realize that you won't have a lot of accurate information to go off of. I've never seen anything other than heart and leadership out of Sanders.

weazel
01-03-2017, 03:00 PM
Sanders is the only player I wouldn't let go of on that offense

Freyaka
01-03-2017, 03:05 PM
Sanders is the only player I wouldn't let go of on that offense

Sanders/DT, but I'm admittedly partial to DT.

weazel
01-03-2017, 03:09 PM
Unfortunately they don't have a solid replacement for DT, otherwise I would love if they traded him for an OLineman

Freyaka
01-03-2017, 03:13 PM
Unfortunately they don't have a solid replacement for DT, otherwise I would love if they traded him for an OLineman

Even if we had a replacement. His contract basically prohibits that until about 2018. If he goes anywhere, that'll be the year it happens. He'll be a Bronco next year simply because we lose money to cut/trade the guy. It only makes sense to lose money cutting a player if he's a locker room cancer and I've never once gotten that vibe from DT, in fact he's pretty well respected in the locker room.

weazel
01-03-2017, 03:17 PM
I don't let reality get in the way of my dreams.