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View Full Version : Kubiak would be gone after this year without Wade



7DnBrnc53
12-12-2016, 03:35 PM
After yesterday's craptastic offensive performance, I came to this conclusion: Kubiak is lucky that Wade Phillips came here and basically won a SB all by himself with his defense. If they hadn't, this team wouldn't have sniffed a SB last year, and he would probably be gone at the end of the year.

CoachChaz
12-12-2016, 03:41 PM
Probably still should to be, to be honest

Northman
12-12-2016, 03:49 PM
Would of, could of, should of, but wont. He's only in season two and rebuilding the roster following a SB title. He will get time with the team before he eventually gets the axe if he cant right the ship.

MOtorboat
12-12-2016, 03:50 PM
No.

BroncoJoe
12-12-2016, 03:59 PM
Good grief. Such fickle fans.

GEM
12-12-2016, 04:26 PM
I wake up each day and I thank the heavens that I was born in Denver and raised a Broncos fan. God forbid, he dropped me off in Cleveland or Oakland. When in the middle of our worst offensive performance in years, we're still in contention for a wild card spot in the playoffs. We are a very spoiled bunch!

tripp
12-12-2016, 04:29 PM
My biggest fear when Kubiak was hired, was the fact that him and Elway go way back, and that might make Elway more hesitant to give him the axe at some point if it's needed. However, I don't think it's remotely time to think about firing him.

I haven't been impressed with the play calling. I think it's beyond predictable, and to only muster up 10 points against Tennessee is beyond embarrassing. Lose to them 30 - 24, fine, but 10 pts is pitiful on all fronts - considering he was the one calling the plays.

I will give him the benefit of the doubt as he inherited a team with a shit O-line, and he hasn't been given enough time to correct that issue. Aside from a garbage O-line, I think we could be a 10+ win team. I think with a good O-line, the run game will come with it, along with a better passing game. I think Siemian is far, far, far, from the problem. He put us in a position to win yesterday all the while being clobbered throughout 4 quarters. He also is being relied upon even more because our run game is non existent.

OrangeHoof
12-12-2016, 04:35 PM
I was asking myself just the other day where the "Fire Kubiak" threads were. How many weeks did it take for John Fox? This is Elway's ex-roomie and good friend. It will take A LOT to get him fired and I think we all knew that when he was hired. How responsible is Kubiak for the decisions on having two rookie QBs and drafting guys like Sambrailo and Schumacher who are a waste of space? Some? None?

The OL are like dominoes. When one tumbles, you have to fix it right away or the other ones crumble around them.

DenBronx
12-12-2016, 04:42 PM
Kubiak has a very long leash. If you are in favor of Kubiak getting fired then I am affraid it's going to be a long long time before he is gone.

BroncoJoe
12-12-2016, 04:45 PM
Threads like this make me question fans of the team sometimes.

So, yes - Wade developed a GREAT defensive game that played a HUGE part in us winning the SB last year. Well, guess what: Wade wouldn't be here if Kubiak wasn't the HC.

IMO, obviously.

NightTerror218
12-12-2016, 04:56 PM
You could also put blame on elway for the lack of OL talent. In his tensure all but 1 1st pick in draft has been on defense. OL has been picked up in 2nd or 3rd and of thise picks none are worth a damn.

HORSEPOWER 56
12-12-2016, 04:58 PM
Kubiak is a Super Bowl winning HC. Wade came to Denver because of Kubiak. Kubiak would have to have a McDaniels-esque meltdown to get fired.

I agree though that without the defense we're a 4 win team best case.

BigDaddyBronco
12-12-2016, 05:20 PM
You could also put blame on elway for the lack of OL talent. In his tensure all but 1 pick in draft has been on defense. OL has been picked up in 2nd or 3rd and of thise picks none are worth a damn.

And his FA OL pick-ups have been shit as well. Was Vasquez an Elway FA? He was pretty good.

NightTerror218
12-12-2016, 05:24 PM
And his FA OL pick-ups have been shit as well. Was Vasquez an Elway FA? He was pretty good.

He was and he was good 1st year we had him or so and now he is unemployed.

DenBronx
12-12-2016, 05:44 PM
Kubiak is going to need a much better OL before this offense can flourish. In his type of system it requires effective blocking and right now we don't have that. Siemian and Paxton are way more mobile than Manning was and are still getting hit way too much.

I didn't expect much from this team this year anyway. I believe Trevor is going to be a way better QB next season but we need to get him some protection.

Valar Morghulis
12-12-2016, 05:50 PM
If kubes needs the boot, elway will deliver it, in good time and sharp order.

No one is bigger than the Broncos and being a friend and ex room mate of JFE does not make kubes exempt from that.

But now is not the time to consider it, perhaps some position coaches could be looking for work and I would love us to hire kyle Shabbat to run the offense, but kubes is a great HC in my opinion, that is why he will still be employed, on merit.

I cite the manning controversy as exhibit A.

GEM
12-12-2016, 06:00 PM
If kubes needs the boot, elway will deliver it, in good time and sharp order.

No one is bigger than the Broncos and being a friend and ex room mate of JFE does not make kubes exempt from that.

But now is not the time to consider it, perhaps some position coaches could be looking for work and I would love us to hire kyle Shabbat to run the offense, but kubes is a great HC in my opinion, that is why he will still be employed, on merit.

I cite the manning controversy as exhibit A.

He shipped his son's best friend/roomie out without a second thought. :D

silkamilkamonico
12-12-2016, 07:18 PM
I'm more worried there won't be any changes along the offensive staff which there should be. I think Kubiak is a good head coach and I'm hoping he'll take the next step there and put the offense in another direction with some fresh coaches. Hopefully he's not the loyalty will be his downfall type.

atwater27
12-12-2016, 10:51 PM
Dennison needs to go. And the new OC needs to run a dynamic style of offense, not this archaic bootleg play action crap.

Jaded
12-12-2016, 11:57 PM
Dennison needs to go. And the new OC needs to run a dynamic style of offense, not this archaic bootleg play action crap.

Literally every team runs playaction, even bootlegs. Feel free to go on ignoring that fact, though.

As for a dynamic style of offense, the Broncos had the single most dynamic offense ever and decided they wanted more balanced offense.

I think this is Kubiak's last season, this is not what the Broncos want from their offense (as impossible as that is for fans to believe) and I don't think Elway will go into March without changes on the offense. And I don't think Kubiak is willing to make changes. Maybe I'm wrong, I hope I'm wrong, I like Kubiak and I like his "undynamic" offense.

Jaded
12-13-2016, 12:01 AM
Btw, dynamic; the Broncos threw the ball 51 times yesterday...10 points. Must be the playcalling.

Dapper Dan
12-13-2016, 12:05 AM
Kubiak is my dude. Ride or die. Let's ride.

King87
12-13-2016, 01:08 AM
I wake up each day and I thank the heavens that I was born in Denver and raised a Broncos fan. God forbid, he dropped me off in Cleveland or Oakland. When in the middle of our worst offensive performance in years, we're still in contention for a wild card spot in the playoffs. We are a very spoiled bunch!

Well, this is a superior scenario than one I had been in previously.

slim
12-13-2016, 07:42 AM
You guys crack me up.

sneakers
12-13-2016, 07:47 AM
Kubiak is a Super Bowl winning HC. Wade came to Denver because of Kubiak. Kubiak would have to have a McDaniels-esque meltdown to get fired.

I agree though that without the defense we're a 4 win team best case.

I suddenly need that picture of mcdaniels in his car driving out of dove valley for the last time with all his shit in his car

slim
12-13-2016, 08:35 AM
Kubiak is a Super Bowl winning HC. Wade came to Denver because of Kubiak. Kubiak would have to have a McDaniels-esque meltdown to get fired.

I agree though that without the defense we're a 4 win team best case.

Uh, without a defense the other team would score on every drive.

I'm not sure how we win 4 games that way.

atwater27
12-13-2016, 08:53 AM
Literally every team runs playaction, even bootlegs. Feel free to go on ignoring that fact, though.
.

Those plays SHOULD be in everyone's playbook. But an offense based on that is stale, tired and ineffective in today's NFL

atwater27
12-13-2016, 08:54 AM
Btw, dynamic; the Broncos threw the ball 51 times yesterday...10 points. Must be the playcalling.

There is a difference between dynamic and desperate. And yes, the playcalling is HORRIBLE

slim
12-13-2016, 08:55 AM
I liked it when our offense was the most dynamic ever and we got embarrassed in the SB.

That was awesome!

7DnBrnc53
12-13-2016, 09:01 AM
Good grief. Such fickle fans.

No. I'm just keeping it real, and honoring the real reason for last year's SB win, which was Wade.

atwater27
12-13-2016, 09:09 AM
I liked it when our offense was the most dynamic ever and we got embarrassed in the SB.

That was awesome!
I don't recall who is saying they don't love our defense.

atwater27
12-13-2016, 09:09 AM
What the hell is wrong with wanting both?

Dapper Dan
12-13-2016, 09:37 AM
And Wade wouldn't have a job if not for Kubiak. Who cares.

The Glue Factory
12-13-2016, 10:13 AM
What the hell is wrong with wanting both?

Kinda like 1998 and 1999, right?

Broncoknight30
12-13-2016, 10:24 AM
Well, I am not quite sure who is in charge of actually calling the plays, but it has been bad. Really bad imo. I like Kubiak. If anything, Wade Philips has shown that he is the one that really cannot be a head coach and better off as a coordinator.

Kubiak has the temperament that fits well with the team. I think that aspect of coaching is very underrated. Getting a team to buy in and wanting to NOT disappoint the coach is good. I think Kubiak has that persona.

He really got a lot out of Houston in those years. They were never a Cleveland etc. They were always a decent team and played hard. He certainly got a lot of freaking Matt Schaub for Gods sake. This organization felt the affects of his loss when he left after the 2005 season.

Having said that, I am just not sold of Rick Dennison as a play caller (is that is who is calling plays.) To me there is just no imagination at all. Not that we need to see a variety of
"trick plays" but it is like milquetoast to me. Predictable, easily scouted running plays. They are not even trying bootleg keepers. It is the same thing and it is just totally ineffective.


That is bothersome and it really does not seem to be changing.

arapaho2
12-13-2016, 11:03 AM
well I dont know if kubiak needs to go...but his offense needs to be scraped...its putrid

now we can blame the oline...true they suck...and play calling and qb play do play a huge part

2011....broncos oline ranked 20th...1st run...30th pass...tebow
2012...2nd
2013...1st
2014...1st....manning masked a lot of issues
enter kubiak....and dennison as OC and barone as line coach

2015...20th

2016...28th

look at games this year...we try to run kubiaks offense...and his scripted plays or dennisons game plan ...I think we have a couple fgs on opening drives on the season, what ever it is it does not work !
almost to a tee, every route is a sideline out, short hook or wr screen...wrs get blasted as soon as they catch the ball...yet in the forth qrt ...we start to run a totally different offense where they let trevor sling it

broncos scoreing 1st qrtr........................20 points

broncos scoring 4rth qrtr.......................133 points

its not that the oline blocks better in the 4rth, its not that they discovered how to pick up a blitz in the 4th...its a change in play calling

silkamilkamonico
12-13-2016, 11:55 AM
I don't think gaining 6 inches on 3rd and short is too much to ask for an offense in this day and age.

Denver offense can't even do that right.

slim
12-13-2016, 12:11 PM
What the hell is wrong with wanting both?

The salary cap?

shank
12-13-2016, 12:17 PM
Dennison needs to go. And the new OC needs to run a dynamic style of offense, not this archaic bootleg play action crap.

We aren't even running that 'crap.' I don't think I've seen more than 1 play action boot called in any single game this season...

Broncoknight30
12-13-2016, 12:17 PM
I don't think gaining 6 inches on 3rd and short is too much to ask for an offense in this day and age.

Denver offense can't even do that right.

Yeah, and brutally annoying thing about that to me is they try to utilize the worst part of this team that is virtually always mismatched against opposing D lines.

It is annoying cause it is them trying to bang square pegs through round holes.

They hardly ever convert on that play, and they run the same run to the 5 hole.

Is just annoying. When it is 3rd and 2 or 3rd and 1 I have no confidence at all.

slim
12-13-2016, 12:22 PM
We aren't even running that 'crap.' I don't think I've seen more than 1 play action boot called in any single game this season...

The OL can't block anyone, so it's hard to blame it on the system or play calling.

They either need better OL coaching, better OL talent or both. That's the only way to fix it.

Mike
12-13-2016, 12:29 PM
The OL can't block anyone, so it's hard to blame it on the system or play calling.

They either need better OL coaching, better OL talent or both. That's the only way to fix it.

Run an extra lineman out there and run from a power set, just like we did Tebow's year.

That is what frustrates me the most about Kubiak. You see his plan isn't working, but he trots the same gameplan out there week after week no matter what. No acknowledging that either you don't have the players to fit your scheme or your scheme is not working. His stubbornness to have it his way is hurting the team.

Northman
12-13-2016, 12:34 PM
Run an extra lineman out there and run from a power set, just like we did Tebow's year.

That is what frustrates me the most about Kubiak. You see his plan isn't working, but he trots the same gameplan out there week after week no matter what. No acknowledging that either you don't have the players to fit your scheme or your scheme is not working. His stubbornness to have it his way is hurting the team.


Yea, i dont understand why he doesnt go max protect either. Sanders and DT are good enough to get off their defenders if you can give Siemian at least a little more time in the pocket. Its not the be all end all to fixing the line issues but i agree that its really frustrating that we are this far into the season and Kubiak has failed to really address the line issues.

shank
12-13-2016, 12:35 PM
The OL can't block anyone, so it's hard to blame it on the system or play calling.

They either need better OL coaching, better OL talent or both. That's the only way to fix it.

From what I've seen, when we run the boots, it has worked relatively well - but we're not sticking with it enough to benefit the running or the passing game. We aren't using any kind of plays to set up plays later in the game. Same thing with toss runs - when we have run them this season they have worked well, but after picking up 8 yards on a toss early in the game, they never go back to it.. Leaves me scratching my head.

Dapper Dan
12-13-2016, 12:39 PM
We ran an extra lineman at least once I remember. It didn't work. I think it was only running plays though.

Sunday I was ready to bench the RB and just run Siemian, 6 OL and 4 WR.

King87
12-13-2016, 01:49 PM
Kubiak should not be fired. Nor should he be looked at as a bad HC. He should be looked at as a rather poor OC who is either hit or miss with his adjustments.

HORSEPOWER 56
12-13-2016, 05:10 PM
Kubiak grew up in the Shanahan school of offense. Remember, Shanny didn't adjust either. He was "the mastermind" and if it wasn't working it's because the players weren't running it correctly. The big difference is Shanny's scripted first 15 plays typically were innovative, well scouted based on the team we were playing, and usually resulted in a TD on the first drive and early lead for us. After that, shit got vanilla AF and we sank or swam with it.

Kubiak starts out vanilla AF and stays right there the whole game...

Jaded
12-13-2016, 09:17 PM
Those plays SHOULD be in everyone's playbook. But an offense based on that is stale, tired and ineffective in today's NFL

Yeah...So I'm told.

Btw, I don't know how the Broncos find the time to base an entire offense around those two plays when they're so busy doing literally everything that we bitch about them NOT doing.

Jaded
12-13-2016, 09:22 PM
Run an extra lineman out there and run from a power set, just like we did Tebow's year.

That is what frustrates me the most about Kubiak. You see his plan isn't working, but he trots the same gameplan out there week after week no matter what. No acknowledging that either you don't have the players to fit your scheme or your scheme is not working. His stubbornness to have it his way is hurting the team.
They do that. Jesus, do you guys even watch the games?

I hope they fire the ****er and keep the entire OL intact.

nevcraw
12-13-2016, 11:08 PM
Kubes is great head coach. He just needs to do what he said he was going to last year - adapt his o to his players and get with the times. I call all plays before they happen and I'm certainly not a professional defensive coach trained in the art of defending this crap. I love Kubes but as I stated in game day thread he needs to fire himself as OC and probably a few others on offense and innovate.

Valar Morghulis
12-14-2016, 02:41 AM
If kubes needs the boot, elway will deliver it, in good time and sharp order.

No one is bigger than the Broncos and being a friend and ex room mate of JFE does not make kubes exempt from that.

But now is not the time to consider it, perhaps some position coaches could be looking for work and I would love us to hire kyle Shabbat to run the offense, but kubes is a great HC in my opinion, that is why he will still be employed, on merit.

I cite the manning controversy as exhibit A.


Lol Kyle Shabbat, ******* autocorrect.

NightTerror218
12-14-2016, 06:59 PM
Maybe siemian does notbhave the qhole play book open to him. Injuries may limit all the boot legs. He does nit throw into middle of field often.

We have no idea if the OL and ground gave are kling offensive play calls. Or a young QB is limited to what throws he is confident in.

spikerman
12-14-2016, 07:05 PM
Lol Kyle Shabbat, ******* autocorrect.

I thought you were giving him a pet nickname.

slim
12-14-2016, 07:05 PM
Maybe siemian does notbhave the qhole play book open to him. Injuries may limit all the boot legs. He does nit throw into middle of field often.

We have no idea if the OL and ground gave are kling offensive play calls. Or a young QB is limited to what throws he is confident in.

Exactly

Broncoknight30
12-15-2016, 05:33 AM
Maybe siemian does notbhave the qhole play book open to him. Injuries may limit all the boot legs. He does nit throw into middle of field often.

We have no idea if the OL and ground gave are kling offensive play calls. Or a young QB is limited to what throws he is confident in.

The OC PROBABLY SHOULD kill certain play calls with the state of the OL, however that does not stop them from running the same running plays on 3rd and short that everyone knows is going to get blown up.

That is what it seems like IMO. How many 3rd and short yardage situations have we seen them run the same stupid run play that ALL of us know is going to get stuffed. Then they run it, and it gets stuffed just about every time. No, I am not calling for constant trick plays, but it is also obvious the OL is not adequate to execute the offense.

Siemian is good. I think with a working offense that is more consistent, he could be a top 10 QB. I do believe his greatest liability is durability. I am pretty sure that was even on his scouting report coming out of college and it appears to be the case this year.



http://www.insidenu.com/2015/4/26/8498167/nfl-draft-capsule-trevor-siemian-northwestern-quarterback
Overall

Obviously tearing his ACL didn't help Siemian in his quest to be the first former Northwestern quarterback drafted since 2010, but the fact that he has visited with several teams, including the Bears, Broncos and Browns, is encouraging. Siemian is still a lognshot to be drafted, but it certainly wouldn't be surprising to see him signed as a rookie free agent. The biggest thing moving forward, regardless if he is drafted or not, will be his health.

-------------

I have said it before, I think the two most IMPORTANT aspects of a winning franchise is a solid to great defense and an established OL. Even more important than a great QB is a GREAT OL. Give a QB a running game and time, and you have an effective QB. Very few, if any QBs who have succeeded without a great OL. Even Brady becomes less than ordinary when he is pressured (especially up the middle.) Reference the SBs against the NASCAR Giants DL in the SBs and the Broncos in the AFCCG.

I do think putting together a great OL is actually in a lot of ways more difficult to put together and keep together than an finding an effective starting QB.

ShaneFalco
12-15-2016, 07:22 AM
i am glad kubiak benched oz for manning.

Now we have Siemian who is a better qb then oz and cost alot less

Freyaka
12-16-2016, 11:00 AM
Good grief. Such fickle fans.

Always...

atwater27
12-17-2016, 10:44 AM
The salary cap?
We aren't talking about the salary cap. We are talking about coaches and offensive playcalling.

atwater27
12-17-2016, 10:47 AM
The OL can't block anyone, so it's hard to blame it on the system or play calling.

They either need better OL coaching, better OL talent or both. That's the only way to fix it.

We have had major offensive problems for the last 2 and a half seasons. Peyton masked these problems with audibles and his own playcalling. We have an offensive coaching problem. Time to address it.

Jaded
12-17-2016, 01:23 PM
When Elway does fire Kubiak what makes people think Elway is going to hire some Chip Kelly? Elway had what you guys wanted (the most dynamic offense ever) and decided that he didn't want that.

Maybe you should start calling for Elway's job too, just to be safe.

Btw, lets be sure we know what we're talking about, y'all know there are issues with personnel and that the problem you have isn't with playcalling...it's with style of play. They're not going to bring in another old school coach and have different results through simply zigging instead of zagging.

You guys just don't want this style of offense.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
12-17-2016, 01:26 PM
When Elway does fire Kubiak what makes people think Elway is going to hire some Chip Kelly? Elway had what you guys wanted and decided that he didn't want that.

Maybe you should start calling for Elway's job too, just to be safe.

He just won a super bowl and now in a transition year with a an inexperienced 7th round pick we have a winning record and people want Kubiak gone....good grief

Jaded
12-18-2016, 01:52 AM
He just won a super bowl and now in a transition year with a an inexperienced 7th round pick we have a winning record and people want Kubiak gone....good grief

People believe that they don't need Kubiak around as long as Phillips is running the defense. They hate his offense, which I fully understand because I hate the POS offenses they wanna see.

King87
12-18-2016, 01:54 AM
People believe that they don't need Kubiak around as long as Phillips is running the defense. They hate his offense, which I fully understand because I hate the POS offenses they wanna see.

The POS offense you hate is one that doesn't exist. They're not calling for some rigid monolithic thing, Jaded. They want to see a difference in playcalling. You're almost as indignant as I am.

Jaded
12-18-2016, 02:01 AM
The POS offense you hate is one that doesn't exist. They're not calling for some rigid monolithic thing, Jaded. They want to see a difference in playcalling. You're almost as indignant as I am.

I am not!

King87
12-18-2016, 02:04 AM
I am not!

I swear to god you're trying to make me bring the hashtag back.

It's time for slants! All slants! Right slants! Left slants! backward slants! That's all we're calling for our plays!!!!

atwater27
12-18-2016, 05:22 AM
When Elway does fire Kubiak what makes people think Elway is going to hire some Chip Kelly? Elway had what you guys wanted (the most dynamic offense ever) and decided that he didn't want that.

Maybe you should start calling for Elway's job too, just to be safe.

Btw, lets be sure we know what we're talking about, y'all know there are issues with personnel and that the problem you have isn't with playcalling...it's with style of play. They're not going to bring in another old school coach and have different results through simply zigging instead of zagging.

You guys just don't want this style of offense.
I don't want Kubes fired. I want Dennison gone. And yes, the style of offense sucks ass.

spikerman
12-18-2016, 09:17 AM
I swear to god you're trying to make me bring the hashtag back.

It's time for slants! All slants! Right slants! Left slants! backward slants! That's all we're calling for our plays!!!!
That's the Patriots' offense and hell, it made people think Brady is the GOAT based on a career of rarely throwing it more than 5 or 6 yards down the field. So, why not?

Valar Morghulis
12-18-2016, 12:11 PM
That's the Patriots' offense and hell, it made people think Brady is the GOAT based on a career of rarely throwing it more than 5 or 6 yards down the field. So, why not?

Good point spike, but no need to post it twice, it wasn't all that

Northman
12-18-2016, 12:13 PM
Good point spike, but no need to post it twice, it wasn't all that

He just wanted to EMPHASIZE it because he loves Brady so much.

Valar Morghulis
12-18-2016, 12:21 PM
He just wanted to EMPHASIZE it because he loves Brady so much.

Lol, North you are to Tom Brady what Shane is to Tebow!!

spikerman
12-18-2016, 12:22 PM
Good point spike, but no need to post it twice, it wasn't all that

Fixed it. You're a wonderful editor.

Northman
12-18-2016, 12:29 PM
Lol, North you are to Tom Brady what Shane is to Tebow!!

Yea, but Brady is actually good. :)

Valar Morghulis
12-18-2016, 12:48 PM
Yea, but Brady is actually good. :)

Yeah, but Tebow is so good he has a measurement of time named after him... Tebow time

slim
12-18-2016, 03:15 PM
He just won a super bowl and now in a transition year with a an inexperienced 7th round pick we have a winning record and people want Kubiak gone....good grief

People are dumb.

spikerman
12-18-2016, 03:17 PM
People are dumb.

I think most people are like me in that they want to keep Kubiak as the head coach, but to relinquish play calling to a more imaginative coordinator.

slim
12-18-2016, 03:19 PM
I think most people are like me in that they want to keep Kubiak as the head coach, but to relinquish play calling to a more imaginative coordinator.

If most people are like you I think I will kill myself :D

King87
12-18-2016, 03:20 PM
If most people are like you I think I will kill myself :D

We need more Spikermans.

spikerman
12-18-2016, 03:20 PM
If most people are like you I think I will kill myself :D

If most people are like me you wouldn't be missed.

Just kidding buddy. You know I love you.

slim
12-18-2016, 03:27 PM
If most people are like me you wouldn't be missed.

Just kidding buddy. You know I love you.

Right back at ya, buddy.

Do you think Kubes is the problem? He may be, but I wonder if Dennison and Clancy should bear the blame.

King87
12-18-2016, 03:27 PM
Right back at ya, buddy.

Do you think Kubes is the problem? He may be, but I wonder if Dennison and Clancy should bear the blame.

Well, they're his coaches....It's not being the problem, Slim. It's part of the problem. A problem. You're a complicated man. You know about complicated things.

spikerman
12-18-2016, 03:28 PM
Right back at ya, buddy.

Do you think Kubes is the problem? He may be, but I wonder if Dennison and Clancy should bear the blame.

Yep.. all three of them. The offense has been absolute shit for two years.

slim
12-18-2016, 03:28 PM
Well, they're his coaches....It's not being the problem, Slim. It's part of the problem. A problem. You're a complicated man. You know about complicated things.

I'm a simple man, but I get what you mean.

Nomad
12-18-2016, 04:36 PM
If Kubiak keeps playing Norwood, he should be. :lol:

slim
12-18-2016, 04:52 PM
If Kubiak keeps playing Norwood, he should be. :lol:

Juice!

silkamilkamonico
12-18-2016, 07:12 PM
Is the seat getting warm?

Dude has done absolutely nothing for this offense. His terrible decision making alone in insisting on Norwood handling punts again basically single handily was the difference of this football game.

slim
12-18-2016, 07:25 PM
Is the seat getting warm?

Dude has done absolutely nothing for this offense. His terrible decision making alone in insisting on Norwood handling punts again basically single handily was the difference of this football game.

No.

silkamilkamonico
12-18-2016, 07:29 PM
No.

Explain.

Mike
12-18-2016, 07:30 PM
Something has to give. This offense is putrid.

slim
12-18-2016, 07:33 PM
Explain.

Kubes should not be fired, but needs to hold his offensive coaches accountable

silkamilkamonico
12-18-2016, 07:33 PM
Something has to give. This offense is putrid.

This offense is just brutal. It's worse than with Tebow. At least with Tebow we were good at 1 thing half the time.

silkamilkamonico
12-18-2016, 07:34 PM
Kubes should not be fired, but needs to hold his offensive coaches accountable

So he's in the clear with what's happening on offense and the coaches are the issue? I'm just trying to figure out who's fault it is for this dumpsterfire offense we have.

slim
12-18-2016, 07:36 PM
So he's in the clear with what's happening on offense and the coaches are the issue? I'm just trying to figure out who's fault it is for this dumpsterfire offense we have.

Yes.

He gets credit for the good and debits for the bad.

MOtorboat
12-18-2016, 07:38 PM
So he's in the clear with what's happening on offense and the coaches are the issue? I'm just trying to figure out who's fault it is for this dumpsterfire offense we have.

Everybody. Kubiak, Dennison, any coach that has offense or an offensive position in his title, Trevor Siemian, the entire offensive line, Booker, Forsett, Norwood, Thomas, Sanders, Green, Heuerman, Derby.

The whole off the offense has a stake in its faults.

Mike
12-18-2016, 07:38 PM
Yes.

He gets credit for the good and debits for the bad.

But what good does he get credit for? Without the defense this team is Cleveland-level bad.

silkamilkamonico
12-18-2016, 07:41 PM
But what good does he get credit for? Without the defense this team is Cleveland-level bad.

That's kind of what I'm asking. Wade Phillips isn't head coach caliber, but it's him who has clearly set lead for the success of this franchise. You could replace Kubiak with anyone else, and if Phillips was here Denver would have a SuperBowl win and at least be in the playoffs this year.

The one good thing Kubiak has done is brought Phillips in. That's it. That's his saving grace at this point. He didn;t even really want to be here. Elway basically had to beg him.

silkamilkamonico
12-18-2016, 07:42 PM
Hopefully he can figure out the offense soon, because this is an exceptional defense that has a limited window.

slim
12-18-2016, 07:45 PM
But what good does he get credit for? Without the defense this team is Cleveland-level bad.

He gets credit for the team which includes the defense and a SB victory.

King87
12-18-2016, 07:46 PM
He gets credit for the team which includes the defense and a SB victory.

Neither of which he seemed to have much to do with...in hindsight.

I think he's a fine HC and a bad OC. I like him as a man. I'm sure that means a lot to you.

slim
12-18-2016, 07:48 PM
Neither of which he seemed to have much to do with...in hindsight.

I think he's a fine HC and a bad OC. I like him as a man. I'm sure that means a lot to you.

He didn't have anything to do with the defense or the SB victory?

Sorry, Sir, but you don't know what you are talking about.

King87
12-18-2016, 07:51 PM
He didn't have anything to do with the defense or the SB victory?

Sorry, Sir, but you don't know what you are talking about.

He hired Phillips. He didn't sign the FA. He's an offense-minded coach. So no, he didn't seem to do a lot with the defense.

The offense was never much of a contributor to the team, and when it was clicking it always appeared it was more about Manning. For example, the S.D. game where Manning came back in and marched down the field via audibles and matchups he created.

Kubiak does seem like a good leader of men. But I'm not sure many head coaches couldn't have done what he did via the same circumstances.

slim
12-18-2016, 07:55 PM
Okay, so he had nothing to do with the SB win.

That's cool. You guys go ahead and be all emo because the season isn't going well.

I wish we were the Cleveland Browns and changed HCs every year....that's the way champions do it!

spikerman
12-18-2016, 08:00 PM
Okay, so he had nothing to do with the SB win.

That's cool. You guys go ahead and be all emo because the season isn't going well.

I wish we were the Cleveland Browns and changed HCs every year....that's the way champions do it!
No no.. keep him as the HC, just relieve him of coordinating duties.

MOtorboat
12-18-2016, 08:00 PM
It Kubiak is fired, Phillips is probably gone.

Jaded
12-18-2016, 08:01 PM
Everybody. Kubiak, Dennison, any coach that has offense or an offensive position in his title, Trevor Siemian, the entire offensive line, Booker, Forsett, Norwood, Thomas, Sanders, Green, Heuerman, Derby.

The whole off the offense has a stake in its faults.

Let's be honest, Elway and the FO too.

slim
12-18-2016, 08:03 PM
It Kubiak is fired, Phillips is probably gone.

Elway didn't even want Phillips here...and he wouldn't be here if not for Kubes.

Meh....cry in your beers, boys. And maybe tomorrow you can act like men.

Jaded
12-18-2016, 08:08 PM
I know Joseph was Denver's first choice but I didn't know Elway didn't want Phillips?

Btw, Joseph's defense is ballin.

slim
12-18-2016, 08:08 PM
I know Joseph was Denver's first choice but I didn't know Elway didn't want Phillips?

Btw, Joseph's defense is ballin.

Were they ballin last year?

atwater27
12-18-2016, 08:12 PM
Okay, so he had nothing to do with the SB win.

That's cool. You guys go ahead and be all emo because the season isn't going well.

I wish we were the Cleveland Browns and changed HCs every year....that's the way champions do it!
pretty sure you are the one that sounds like an emo right now.

Jaded
12-18-2016, 08:16 PM
Were they ballin last year?

Not like Phillips defense.

Btw, Joseph was still stuck in Cincy last year. This is his first season as a DC in his entire career.

slim
12-18-2016, 08:17 PM
pretty sure you are the one that sounds like an emo right now.

Sorry!

Let's fire Kubes!!!

That is the logical thing to do!!!

Northman
12-18-2016, 08:17 PM
Okay, so he had nothing to do with the SB win.

That's cool. You guys go ahead and be all emo because the season isn't going well.

I wish we were the Cleveland Browns and changed HCs every year....that's the way champions do it!


Yea, i am frustrated like anyone else but people do realize after Elway retired the team went 6-10 right? I mean, did people really think we were going to be as good as last year? With 2 young QB's?

slim
12-18-2016, 08:17 PM
Not like Phillips defense.

Right?

Jaded
12-18-2016, 08:19 PM
pretty sure you are the one that sounds like an emo right now.

Pretty sure Kubiak's critics have been emo for two years, share the stage or ****.

silkamilkamonico
12-18-2016, 08:19 PM
Okay, so he had nothing to do with the SB win.

!

You are right about this. This is a legitimate question though.

How many years does the SuperBowl win buy him? The offense has continued to actually regress under him. How many years does he have to fix the offense? His system last year sucked. But we have to give him a pass because Manning, who is well documented quietly wasn't on the same page with Kubiak made chicken soup out of chicken shit, and Denver did win the SuperBowl under him.

Manning isn't here to mix up the chicken shit, so our offense is left with chicken shit. And now because of that offense, and some questionable decisions that Kubiak has made throughout the season, Denver is probably going to be left out of the playoffs. WHen does he start feeling the heat assuming things go status quo?

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm looking into next year that Denver is going to have a hell of a defense, a hell of a lot of questions on offense, a qb on the roster that can't generate points, and probably another borderline playoff team, or not.

atwater27
12-18-2016, 08:20 PM
Bottom line our offense has been atrocious for 2 solid seasons now. 2 and a half really. Regardless of our defense fueled Super Bowl run, our coaching staff has to be dealt with. Our offense is almost historically bad.

silkamilkamonico
12-18-2016, 08:21 PM
Yea, i am frustrated like anyone else but people do realize after Elway retired the team went 6-10 right? I mean, did people really think we were going to be as good as last year? With 2 young QB's?

Yet, ironically, this place couldn't kick Manning to the curb soon enough. Even after the SuperBowl win. This place couldn't wait to cut Manning loose so we could actually run Kubiak's offense. Well, were running Kubiak's offense, and it's an absolute joke.

Northman
12-18-2016, 08:21 PM
You are right about this. This is a legitimate question though.

How many years does the SuperBowl win buy him? The offense has continued to actually regress under him. How many years does he have to fix the offense? His system last year sucked. But we have to give him a pass because Manning, who is well documented quietly wasn't on the same page with Kubiak made chicken soup out of chicken shit, and Denver did win the SuperBowl under him.

Manning isn't here to mix up the chicken shit, so our offense is left with chicken shit. And now because of that offense, and some questionable decisions that Kubiak has made throughout the season, Denver is probably going to be left out of the playoffs. WHen does he start feeling the heat assuming things go status quo?

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm looking into next year that Denver is going to have a hell of a defense, a hell of a lot of questions on offense, a qb on the roster that can't generate points, and probably another borderline playoff team, or not.


More than one offseason and one year following that SB win. Firing him now would be an incredibly douche move.

silkamilkamonico
12-18-2016, 08:22 PM
Elway didn't even want Phillips here...and he wouldn't be here if not for Kubes.

Meh....cry in your beers, boys. And maybe tomorrow you can act like men.

At least we can. Because Kubiak's offense can't.

Northman
12-18-2016, 08:22 PM
Yet, ironically, this place couldn't kick Manning to the curb soon enough. Even after the SuperBowl win. This place couldn't wait to cut Manning loose so we could actually run Kubiak's offense. Well, were running Kubiak's offense, and it's an absolute joke.

Manning was clearly at the end of his rope. Many people were ready to move on from Manning, you are correct. However, nobody said we would be winning another title right after Manning retired. People were ready to start the rebuilding process and yes, in order to educate you it takes more than one year to achieve.

Mike
12-18-2016, 08:22 PM
More than one offseason and one year following that SB win. Firing him now would be an incredibly douche move.

Fire him? No. Remove him from OC, fire Dennison, and Barone, and bring in some help, yes.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
12-18-2016, 08:23 PM
More than one offseason and one year following that SB win. Firing him now would be an incredibly douche move.

Yes it would. Do people really think Wade would have come without Kubiak? Is he gonna want to stay if he's fired?

silkamilkamonico
12-18-2016, 08:23 PM
More than one offseason and one year following that SB win. Firing him now would be an incredibly douche move.

I agree. I just really hope Kubiak and ELway drop the good ol boy network, and have a heart to heart about how bad this situation is right now on offense. The heat should be on Kubiak to fix it, just like the heat should be on ELway to be better in his department.

Northman
12-18-2016, 08:24 PM
Fire him? No. Remove him from OC, fire Dennison, and Barone, and bring in some help, yes.

But many are not sharing your thoughts Mike. Listen to dopes like Silk and you dont get that sense at all.

slim
12-18-2016, 08:26 PM
You are right about this. This is a legitimate question though.

How many years does the SuperBowl win buy him? The offense has continued to actually regress under him. How many years does he have to fix the offense? His system last year sucked. But we have to give him a pass because Manning, who is well documented quietly wasn't on the same page with Kubiak made chicken soup out of chicken shit, and Denver did win the SuperBowl under him.

Manning isn't here to mix up the chicken shit, so our offense is left with chicken shit. And now because of that offense, and some questionable decisions that Kubiak has made throughout the season, Denver is probably going to be left out of the playoffs. WHen does he start feeling the heat assuming things go status quo?

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm looking into next year that Denver is going to have a hell of a defense, a hell of a lot of questions on offense, a qb on the roster that can't generate points, and probably another borderline playoff team, or not.

I think you are asking the wrong questions.

It is not his job to "fix" the offense. It is his job to put a winning team on the field...whatever that may look like. Whether that is a great D or a great O or some combination of both....what difference does it make?

They won the effing SB last year! Did you really expect that to happen again this year? They are 8-6 with zero experience at the QB position....and fighting for a playoff spot That is pretty effing respectable for any NFL team.

silkamilkamonico
12-18-2016, 08:26 PM
Manning was clearly at the end of his rope. Many people were ready to move on from Manning, you are correct. However, nobody said we would be winning another title right after Manning retired. People were ready to start the rebuilding process and yes, in order to educate you it takes more than one year to achieve.

I think a lot of people were hoping to see some positive progress on the offense. I haven't seen any. I thought we would be a borderline playoff team. Even though the defense has had lapses in the season,m it's been far better this year than I would have thought with the losses.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
12-18-2016, 08:28 PM
Fire him? No. Remove him from OC, fire Dennison, and Barone, and bring in some help, yes.

I do agree that calling plays and being HC is not working. He needs an oc. We should offer some type of assistant hc job to Kyle shannahan

Mike
12-18-2016, 08:28 PM
I think you are asking the wrong questions.

It is not his job to "fix" the offense. It is his job to put a winning team on the field...whatever that may look like. Whether that is a great D or a great O or some combination of both....what difference does it make?

They won the effing SB last year! Did you really expect that to happen again this year? They are 8-6 with zero experience at the QB position....and fighting for a playoff spot That is pretty effing respectable for any NFL team.

Argh.....8-6 because of the defense. He is the OC and the offense has gotten worse. I didn't expect a repeat. But I wanted to see the offense get better and expected the playoffs.

King87
12-18-2016, 08:29 PM
As a HC who is a OC it is his job to fix his offense. It's his offense. He determines the starters, calls the plays, supervises the team, etc.

silkamilkamonico
12-18-2016, 08:29 PM
I think you are asking the wrong questions.

It is not his job to "fix" the offense. It is his job to put a winning team on the field...whatever that may look like. Whether that is a great D or a great O or some combination of both....what difference does it make?

They won the effing SB last year! Did you really expect that to happen again this year? They are 8-6 with zero experience at the QB position....and fighting for a playoff spot That is pretty effing respectable for any NFL team.

It's his job to look at areas that need to be fixed, make corrections, and hold people accountable accordingly. That's the head coaches job, to look after the entire team. For one, I highly doubt he's interfering with what Wade Phillips is doing defensively. If he is, he needs to take focus on that and look at other areas. Like special teams. Like wtf is Jordan Norwood still doing playing? That decision put Denver in a hole right away.

slim
12-18-2016, 08:30 PM
I do agree that calling plays and being HC is not working. He needs an oc. We should offer some type of assistant hc job to Kyle shannahan

In all honesty, I wouldn't be surprised if Kubes steps down due to health reasons.

So maybe Kyle as HC?

tripp
12-18-2016, 08:31 PM
Our offense continues to spiral downwards. Didn't think it was possible from last week, but we did it. Kubiak calling plays is very concerning, especially if the next 2 games are as bad as this one. You can't be holding the Pats to 16 and lose, that's disgusting.

I'm also pretty fed up with these moral victory quotes Kubiak has after games.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
12-18-2016, 08:31 PM
As a HC who is a OC it is his job to fix his offense. It's his offense. He determines the starters, calls the plays, supervises the team, etc.

He needs to stop calling plays so he can focus more attention on the opposing defenses tendencies

silkamilkamonico
12-18-2016, 08:32 PM
But many are not sharing your thoughts Mike. Listen to dopes like Silk and you dont get that sense at all.

Nobody is saying fire him. That's as ridiculous as people saying he's not at fault for what's happening on the offensive side. It's going to be fun listening to people at work tomorrow tell me how the defense lost this game too because their old fogies from the SHanahan school of offense.

silkamilkamonico
12-18-2016, 08:33 PM
In all honesty, I wouldn't be surprised if Kubes steps down due to health reasons.

So maybe Kyle as HC?

And have another my way or the highway debacle like McDaniels? No thanks.

Mike
12-18-2016, 08:34 PM
This kind of shit doesn't help his cause....

Kubiak on Norwood: " I believe in players. ... He made some mistakes but he's also made a lot of plays for us."

https://twitter.com/NickiJhabvala/status/810645276935462912

silkamilkamonico
12-18-2016, 08:36 PM
This kind of shit doesn't help his cause....

Kubiak on Norwood: " I believe in players. ... He made some mistakes but he's also made a lot of plays for us."

https://twitter.com/NickiJhabvala/status/810645276935462912

What plays has Norwood made? Might as well give Trinidon Holiday a call. At least he'd have a good return for every one he fumbled.

tripp
12-18-2016, 08:36 PM
This kind of shit doesn't help his cause....

Kubiak on Norwood: " I believe in players. ... He made some mistakes but he's also made a lot of plays for us."

https://twitter.com/NickiJhabvala/status/810645276935462912


Literally the exact opposite of BB.

Jaded
12-18-2016, 08:57 PM
This kind of shit doesn't help his cause....

Kubiak on Norwood: " I believe in players. ... He made some mistakes but he's also made a lot of plays for us."

https://twitter.com/NickiJhabvala/status/810645276935462912

And this...is Kubiak's fatal flaw.

ShaneFalco
12-18-2016, 09:01 PM
loyal to a fault.

I like kubes, but damn. Thats too much.

What plays is he talking about?

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
12-18-2016, 09:06 PM
He has made a lot of plays for us....a lot of bad plays that is.

Freyaka
12-18-2016, 09:25 PM
I don't want Kubes fired. I want Dennison gone. And yes, the style of offense sucks ass.

Dennison and Barrone...

Jaded
12-18-2016, 09:51 PM
Dennison and Barrone...

I don't disagree but maybe the answer is moving them to where they belong. Dennison has never been an OC, in name only, and that's not working. He has had success as an OL coach.

Barone has been my whipping boy for three regimes but he's coached three Pro Bolwers in his career...and three were TE's. Gates, Julius Thomas and Alge Crumpler. From what I'm hearing Brian Pariani is a huge ass hole and his players hate him, maybe there's a use for Barone after all.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
12-18-2016, 09:53 PM
I don't disagree but maybe the answer is moving them to where they belong. Dennison has never been an OC, in name only, and that's not working. He has had success as an OL coach. Barone has been my sipping boy for three regimes but he's coached three Pro Bolwers in his career...and three were TE's. Gates, Julius Thomas and Alge Crumpler.

From what I'm hearing Brian Pariani is a huge ass hole and his players hate him, maybe there's a use for Barone after all.

If Barone taught JT how to block I know enough....

Jaded
12-18-2016, 09:54 PM
If Barone taught JT how to block I know enough....

Touché.

You think you're so cool.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
12-18-2016, 09:55 PM
Touché.

You think you're so cool.

It's because I wear Hanes.

King87
12-18-2016, 10:19 PM
If Barone taught JT how to block I know enough....

JT just doesn't want to block.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
12-18-2016, 10:21 PM
JT just doesn't want to block.

JT is the patty cake champion of the world.

He wears a silk robe that says "Baker man"

turftoad
12-18-2016, 10:34 PM
I'm pissed at Kubes and Dennison also. However, they are not the ones out making turnovers and not catching passes.

Was a bad game. Kubes and Dennison are to conservative and rely on then"D" to much. But, they need help also.

Jaded
12-18-2016, 11:02 PM
It's because I wear Hanes.

Breezy fo sheezy's?

CrazyHorse
12-19-2016, 09:43 AM
This kind of shit doesn't help his cause....

Kubiak on Norwood: " I believe in players. ... He made some mistakes but he's also made a lot of plays for us."

https://twitter.com/NickiJhabvala/status/810645276935462912

The return in the Super Bowl?

CrazyHorse
12-19-2016, 09:50 AM
I liked it when our offense was the most dynamic ever and we got embarrassed in the SB.

That was awesome!

I liked when we played that same team to a tie in regulation the following season with all starters healthy.

Mike
12-19-2016, 10:01 AM
The return in the Super Bowl?

So we are going with one instance of dumb ******* luck as his "lot of plays". Alrighty then.

CrazyHorse
12-19-2016, 10:05 AM
So we are going with one instance of dumb ******* luck as his "lot of plays". Alrighty then.

Not sure. I'm just trying to come up with examples.

gregbroncs
12-19-2016, 10:10 AM
At this point I'd be fine with Kubiak being gone, as long as they found a way to keep Wade at Defensive Coordinator. Kubiak is supposed to be an offensive guy, yet since he's been here the offense has been pathetic.

Freyaka
12-19-2016, 10:26 AM
At this point I'd be fine with Kubiak being gone, as long as they found a way to keep Wade at Defensive Coordinator. Kubiak is supposed to be an offensive guy, yet since he's been here the offense has been pathetic.

The offense has been poor because we don't have an o-line capable of running his offense. This is partially on him, but Elway deserves some credit for this fact. Elway is a great GM, but he cannot draft and develop o-line talent. It's one of his biggest areas of weakness.

BroncoJoe
12-19-2016, 11:22 AM
Everyone seems to forget just a few years ago, we had the best offense the league has ever seen, and got blown out in the SB. At that point, Elway focused on the defense (even though we had a few key players out for that game), and went on to have a historic defense two years later. At the expense of the offense.

I am very confident they'll fix the offense, and it starts with getting key players in vital positions. It's all not on Kubiak. It's not all on Siemian either. It's a combination of the OL not being able to block for the running game, having a 1st year starter at QB, having our main RB do down with a season ending injury, the free-agent OL players not playing like they should be, etc. etc.

You'd think that the Broncos are the Browns, for crying out loud. We just won the damn Superbowl, and you all act like there's a bunch of hacks that run this team.

Talk about spoiled. You all sound like the democrats at this point.

Northman
12-19-2016, 12:07 PM
You all sound like the democrats at this point.

Damn dude, thats really dishing out the hatorade. lmao

Hawgdriver
12-19-2016, 12:11 PM
It Kubiak is fired, Phillips is probably gone.

Wonder if Kubiak walks if Dennison goes.

Jaded
12-19-2016, 12:12 PM
"This is the worst offense in my 38 years of covering the Denver Broncos"-- Sandy Clough.

Jaded
12-19-2016, 12:13 PM
Wonder if Kubiak walks if Dennison goes.

That's the speculation from the likes of Nalen and Schlereth, he might be willing to dump Barone but even that's debatable.

spikerman
12-19-2016, 12:14 PM
"This is the worst offense in my 38 years of covering the Denver Broncos"-- Sandy Clough.

I don't know if it's the worst I've seen in my more than 38 years of watching, but if it's not, it's in the discussion. Maybe the strike year was worse.

Hawgdriver
12-19-2016, 12:17 PM
There is a certain inflexibility in mindset, tactics, and offensive template that has no place on NFL battlegrounds.

Jaded
12-19-2016, 12:19 PM
I don't know if it's the worst I've seen in my more than 38 years of watching, but if it's not, it's in the discussion. Maybe the strike year was worse.

It's the worst in recent memory. I remember being convinced that it couldn't be worse than last season...it is.

It's by far the worst OL I can remember, I can say that with 100% certainty.

Cugel
12-19-2016, 01:05 PM
You could also put blame on elway for the lack of OL talent. In his tenure all but 1 1st pick in draft has been on defense. OL has been picked up in 2nd or 3rd and of thise picks none are worth a damn.

When the Broncos lost the 2013 SB, Elway decided that Defense wins championships, and that he needed to concentrate on building a dominant defense. That meant trying to get by with mediocre OL and virtually no high draft picks on Offense. Cody Latimer was a 2nd round pick, but he's a bust.

Right now, they have 2 talented players on offense: D.T. & Sanders. C.J. is another, but he's a RB and on IR. Who knows about next season? I could argue that the defensive backups like Zaire Anderson, Corey Nelson and Todd Davis are better than anybody on the Offense except Sanders & D.T.

Peyton Manning was able to cover up for a lot of offensive deficiencies. Well, he's not here this season and it shows.

Well, if the Broncos fail to make the playoffs this year (virtually a given at this point) they will be drafting in the teens rather than the late 20's or in the 30's like the last 4 years. So, hopefully they can draft some better players.

But, virtually all the busts have been offensive picks and FAs. Their defensive acquisitions have mostly been great - like the Darien Stewart pickup.

Elway has shown a consistent lack of ability to draft offensive players.

OFFENSIVE DRAFT PICKS:

2016:
RB Devontee Booker, 4th
G Connor McGovern, 5th
FB Andy Janovitch

2015:
T Ty Sambrailo, 2nd
TE Jeff Heuerman, 3rd
C Max Garcia, 4th

2014:
WR Cody Latimer, 2nd
OL Michael Schofield, 3rd
C Matt Paradis, 6th

2013:
RB Montee Ball, 2d
WR Tavaris King, 3rd
OL Vincent Painter, 5th

2012:
QB Brock Osweiler, 2nd
RB Ronnie Hillman, 3rd
C Phillip Blake, 4th

Just look at that litany of failure!

Cugel
12-19-2016, 01:09 PM
I don't know if it's the worst I've seen in my more than 38 years of watching, but if it's not, it's in the discussion. Maybe the strike year was worse.

It would be hard to say that any offense with John Elway was worse than this. With Elway (or Manning) even if there's not a lot of talent on Offense, they could make plays and at least they always had the team in the right play for what the defense was showing.

Right now, a mediocre QB in Trevor Seimian is NOT making up for other deficiencies on the Offense, so the team is unable to score. At all. They went literally 1/2 a game yesterday without a first down.

Jaded
12-19-2016, 01:16 PM
When the Broncos lost the 2013 SB, Elway decided that Defense wins championships, and that he needed to concentrate on building a dominant defense. That meant trying to get by with mediocre OL and virtually no high draft picks on Offense. Cody Latimer was a 2nd round pick, but he's a bust.

Right now, they have 2 talented players on offense: D.T. & Sanders. C.J. is another, but he's a RB and on IR. Who knows about next season? I could argue that the defensive backups like Zaire Anderson, Corey Nelson and Todd Davis are better than anybody on the Offense except Sanders & D.T.

Peyton Manning was able to cover up for a lot of offensive deficiencies. Well, he's not here this season and it shows.

Well, if the Broncos fail to make the playoffs this year (virtually a given at this point) they will be drafting in the teens rather than the late 20's or in the 30's like the last 4 years. So, hopefully they can draft some better players.

But, virtually all the busts have been offensive picks and FAs. Their defensive acquisitions have mostly been great - like the Darien Stewart pickup.

Elway has shown a consistent lack of ability to draft offensive players.

OFFENSIVE DRAFT PICKS:

2016:
RB Devontee Booker, 4th
G Connor McGovern, 5th
FB Andy Janovitch

2015:
T Ty Sambrailo, 2nd
TE Jeff Heuerman, 3rd
C Max Garcia, 4th

2014:
WR Cody Latimer, 2nd
OL Michael Schofield, 3rd
C Matt Paradis, 6th

2013:
RB Montee Ball, 2d
WR Tavaris King, 3rd
OL Vincent Painter, 5th

2012:
QB Brock Osweiler, 2nd
RB Ronnie Hillman, 3rd
C Phillip Blake, 4th

Just look at that litany of failure!

Sure when you put it like that it sounds bad, but hey! They fit the system.

Traveler
12-19-2016, 02:10 PM
I believe Kubiak gets at least one more year. Elway clearly knows he must acquire better players along the OL, but it's going to be hard to fix this problem in one offseason.

Okung is probably gone unless he agrees to restructure his contract. Can't believe there is any way Elway pays him $11+ million next year for as badly as he has played this season.

Don't know what type of player McGovern is since he's pretty much been a game day inactive this entire season.

Paradis is a keeper! The remaining OLmen should be career backups or off the roster.

That means Elway must replace the 4 current starters. Impossible to accomplish in one offseason IMO, so be prepared for more of the same next year.

He also has to take a good hard look at the offensive coaching staff. While the linemen Elway has acquired are not that talented, a good solid coaching will get the most out of them. The OL has been a problem even when Josh McDaniels and John Fox were here, so these issues aren't new. And there has been little, if any improvement this season. Many say they have actually regressed.

As to Kubiak's remaining tenure here, I would like to at least see him relieved of his game planning and play calling duties. Guy just looks burnt out. Maybe he will step down, but that's doubtful. Kyle Shanahan would be a nice replacement if Kubiak were to do so. He revamped the offense in Atlanta to better fit the players. Would be nice if Shanahan or someone else would do the same for DEN.

As some mentioned earlier in this thread, other than help along the OL, I don't think the entire ZBS needs to be scrapped, but an effort should be made to tailor the offense to what the current personnel do best as I stated above. Makes no sense to pay DT and ES that type of money if they aren't going to be the focal point of the offense.

spikerman
12-19-2016, 06:28 PM
Let me bring up a possible name for OC on the remote chance Elway asks Kubiak to focus on HC duties only: Jim Bob Cooter. He has a history in Denver, he's worked wonders with the Lions and, well, his name is effing JIM BOB COOTER!

Valar Morghulis
12-19-2016, 06:29 PM
Let me bring up a possible name for OC on the remote chance Elway asks Kubiak to focus on HC duties only: Jim Bob Cooter. He has a history in Denver, he's worked wonders with the Lions and, well, his name is effing JIM BOB COOTER!

Sounds like he skins raccoons in Georgia

7DnBrnc53
12-19-2016, 08:57 PM
Okung is probably gone unless he agrees to restructure his contract. Can't believe there is any way Elway pays him $11+ million next year for as badly as he has played this season.

His future is probably on another team, and as a G, not LT.


I believe Kubiak gets at least one more year. Elway clearly knows he must acquire better players along the OL, but it's going to be hard to fix this problem in one offseason.

Maybe, but I wouldn't be surprised if Elway encourages him to go because of his health.

Nomad
12-19-2016, 09:01 PM
Sounds like he skins raccoons in Georgia

Cooter was a mechanic in Georgia. :D

silkamilkamonico
12-20-2016, 01:25 PM
Whoever is calling the plays regardless needs to go. You come out in a 3 WR set, the other time has 6 defenders in the box, and you run a play right up the middle for -2 yards. JV football.

Freyaka
12-20-2016, 02:50 PM
Whoever is calling the plays regardless needs to go. You come out in a 3 WR set, the other time has 6 defenders in the box, and you run a play right up the middle for -2 yards. JV football.

I've been complaining about the playcalling all freaking year so you'll get no arguments from me. IMO if it's Kubiak he needs playcalling taken completely away from him so he can focus on the team as a whole and Dennison needs fired...If it's Dennison he needs fired and a true OC needs brought in to run the offense free of Kubiak.

Basically Dennison needs to go or be demoted...He is not an OC and should not be pretending to be one.

nevcraw
12-20-2016, 07:25 PM
I believe Kubiak gets at least one more year. Elway clearly knows he must acquire better players along the OL, but it's going to be hard to fix this problem in one offseason.

Okung is probably gone unless he agrees to restructure his contract. Can't believe there is any way Elway pays him $11+ million next year for as badly as he has played this season.

Don't know what type of player McGovern is since he's pretty much been a game day inactive this entire season.

Paradis is a keeper! The remaining OLmen should be career backups or off the roster.

That means Elway must replace the 4 current starters. Impossible to accomplish in one offseason IMO, so be prepared for more of the same next year.

He also has to take a good hard look at the offensive coaching staff. While the linemen Elway has acquired are not that talented, a good solid coaching will get the most out of them. The OL has been a problem even when Josh McDaniels and John Fox were here, so these issues aren't new. And there has been little, if any improvement this season. Many say they have actually regressed.

As to Kubiak's remaining tenure here, I would like to at least see him relieved of his game planning and play calling duties. Guy just looks burnt out. Maybe he will step down, but that's doubtful. Kyle Shanahan would be a nice replacement if Kubiak were to do so. He revamped the offense in Atlanta to better fit the players. Would be nice if Shanahan or someone else would do the same for DEN.

As some mentioned earlier in this thread, other than help along the OL, I don't think the entire ZBS needs to be scrapped, but an effort should be made to tailor the offense to what the current personnel do best as I stated above. Makes no sense to pay DT and ES that type of money if they aren't going to be the focal point of the offense.
Agree with you on almost all of this except not 100 percent sold on KS has a head coach. He's had one good season has as an OC a bunch of years as a question mark. But rest yep! OC, Play calling OL needs and overhaul and new blood / new thinking.
Whatever happens - we need to keep wade.

spikerman
12-20-2016, 08:44 PM
If they go into next year believing Kubes' mantra that the players just need to play better it's going to be a very ugly season.

Jsteve01
12-21-2016, 10:10 AM
My biggest fear when Kubiak was hired, was the fact that him and Elway go way back, and that might make Elway more hesitant to give him the axe at some point if it's needed. However, I don't think it's remotely time to think about firing him.

I haven't been impressed with the play calling. I think it's beyond predictable, and to only muster up 10 points against Tennessee is beyond embarrassing. Lose to them 30 - 24, fine, but 10 pts is pitiful on all fronts - considering he was the one calling the plays.

I will give him the benefit of the doubt as he inherited a team with a shit O-line, and he hasn't been given enough time to correct that issue. Aside from a garbage O-line, I think we could be a 10+ win team. I think with a good O-line, the run game will come with it, along with a better passing game. I think Siemian is far, far, far, from the problem. He put us in a position to win yesterday all the while being clobbered throughout 4 quarters. He also is being relied upon even more because our run game is non existent.

Read the story about Elway running the Crush. He fired his Dad's best friend his his roommate from Broncos days in one fell swoop. He gets it.

Northman
12-21-2016, 10:42 AM
It wasnt like Fox lead a bunch of losing teams in Denver and he was cut loose. If Gary cant make the necessary improvements John wont hesitate to pull the trigger. Its just good business in the end.

Jaded
12-22-2016, 01:58 AM
I'm not impressed with the playcalling.

All this zigging, why don't they zag? Sure you can zig, but only if you zag.

#maddenthangs

atwater27
12-22-2016, 09:29 AM
I'm not impressed with the playcalling.

All this zigging, why don't they zag? Sure you can zig, but only if you zag.

#maddenthangs

And then before you know it you end up with a Basterd coated offense

Jaded
12-22-2016, 09:07 PM
And then before you know it you end up with a Basterd coated offense

That would be an improvement.