Broncos Gameday Thread: Broncos vs Titans 12/11/16

[Poet]

Bullshit, there are no plays that doesn't require the OL to block. Did ou notice how the offense does just fine when the QB has time? Same goes for the running game.

Kubiak's offense/playcalling works everywhere else he's been. This is ******* lazy analysis.

You mean when he calls plays that he rarely calls and it works the line isn't blocking? If you want to talk about lazy analysis, we can start with your notion that 'the line is bad so he's blameless on playcalling'.

[Poet]

Your adjustments aren't adjustments, they're just plays they actually been runnning. Playaction and slants, they run that.

They rarely call slants and don't use PA enough. They don't overload the offensive line. So, even if we use your notion and adding in more of those plays aren't adjustments (lulz) how does that help you defend Kubiak, the guy who was supposed to be instrumental to fixing the line?

Just give it up.

[I Eat Staples]

Siemian was 35-51 for 334 yards, no turnovers. I know the box score doesn't tell the story, and he played badly in the 1st half, but there wasn't a lot more he could do in the 2nd half. There was no running game, sacks and pressures and penalties killed drives, and a fumble ended the game.

Trevor isn't a QB that should have to throw the ball 51 times in a game anyway. The fact that he had to is a problem, and he actually did well with what he was asked to do.

[MOtorboat]

Miami just won.

[Nomad]

Dolphins win. :ohwell:

[Simple Jaded]

Last week the Broncos ran jet sweep, barely got back to the line of scrimmage.

The Broncos literally do all the shit we say they should do, literally everything. It's every week.

Show me an example of a play we've wanted to see but Denver doesn't do?

Maybe we should say something like "the Broncos OL should block somebody" maybe they'll actually do it.

[Freyaka]

He played OK. But the offense he leads scored 10 points. That's unacceptable and it starts with Kubiak and Siemian.

I would think it starts with the line seeing as they have to actually keep defenders out of the face of the other players...

[spikerman]

I hate the running up the middle for no gain in short yardage, but on our first 3rd and 1 of the game he called a passing play and it resulted in a sack. He's tried running from under center, running from the shotgun, play action pass under center, quick passes from the shotgun, all on short yardage and none seem to work. It's the O-line.
He's done it enough now that selling the play action in that situation would probably work. Of course we don't know that for sure because the Broncos never try it.

[Poet]

Last week the Broncos ran jet sweep, barely got back to the line of scrimmage.

The Broncos literally do all the shit we say they should do, literally everything. It's every week.

Show me an example of a play we've wanted to see but Denver doesn't do?

Maybe we should say something like "the Broncos OL should block somebody" maybe they'll actually do it.

Yeah man, they definitely work the middle of the field with slants, run a lot of playaction, overload the offensive line, call tight end screens, and all the other shit all the time. Calling them a few times definitely equates to calling them enough.
You'll always be one of my favorite posters.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

He played OK. But the offense he leads scored 10 points. That's unacceptable and it starts with Kubiak and Siemian.

It starts with the offensive line Mo. we had 18 yards rushing, which has got to be historically bad.

This offensive line should have been better this year. Elway tried to fill some holes. Stephenson and Okung were good pick ups. They really need to take a LONG look at how they're coaching this line up.

[pnbronco]

Did anyone see Talib on the news after the game? He was talking about the player that hit Chris....they had bleep most of it but I think I heard I told him I was going to beat his ass for a dirty play and oh they have the same agent.....:laugh:

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

He's done it enough now that selling the play action in that situation would probably work. Of course we don't know that for sure because the Broncos never try it.

They tried it when Trevor was healthy. It's safe to assume they don't like the play call because of his ankle sprain.

[I Eat Staples]

He's done it enough now that selling the play action in that situation would probably work. Of course we don't know that for sure because the Broncos never try it.

I don't think so, teams can usually stop our runs with just their D-line. I wouldn't mind more play action, I'm up for trying anything, but I have a suspicion that it will just mean slower developing plays resulting in more sacks and pressures.

[Simple Jaded]

Tell that to Houston.

Yeah, he coached there for almost a decade and set franchise records, had one of the best offenses during that time, he's got nothing to be ashamed of. Other than the fact that he runs an offense that upsets the Madden/Fantasy Football generation. Lazy.

[Poet]

It starts with the offensive line Mo. we had 18 yards rushing, which has got to be historically bad.

This offensive line should have been better this year. Elway tried to fill some holes. Stephenson and Okung were good pick ups. They really need to take a LONG look at how they're coaching this line up.



Okung and Stephenson had success before they cam here. Our HC has failed to improve the play on the o-line and his playcalling also sucks. These things impact TS. But if Mo were to point out the consistently underthrown deep balls, and the lack of pocket presence and blitz identification, that's a thing, too. Then again, our HC is supposed to be a QB whisperer as well. TS is doing fine.

[MOtorboat]

I would think it starts with the line seeing as they have to actually keep defenders out of the face of the other players...

You know that third down play at the beginning of the game where everyone blamed Booker for a bad block? That's on Siemian. They rushed four. Denver had six blockers and one came completely free. He completely mis-read the defense. Granted, LeBeau's defense is a PhD defense and we have an undergrad, but that sack was on him, not Booker. You shouldn't have four rushers with six blockers and have one come completely free.

Done with the offensive line excuses.

[spikerman]

A loss could be good. Hell, maybe even a few of them. I'll never root for the Broncos to lose, but sometimes a win covers up the stink on a turd. Take last week for instance. If not for tremendous defense the Broncos should have been beaten by a 2 win Jaguars team. There is nowhere for the offense to hide this week. Time for some serious evaluation of everything they're doing.

[Nomad]

Did anyone see Talib on the news after the game? He was talking about the player that hit Chris....they had bleep most of it but I think I heard I told him I was going to beat his ass for a dirty play and oh they have the same agent.....:laugh:

I admire Talib for having his teammates back. Screw the refs if they're going to be selective in these kind of penalties.

[spikerman]

I don't think so, teams can usually stop our runs with just their D-line. I wouldn't mind more play action, I'm up for trying anything, but I have a suspicion that it will just mean slower developing plays resulting in more sacks and pressures.

It couldn't hurt to try though, could it?

[Freyaka]

You know that third down play at the beginning of the game where everyone blamed Booker for a bad block? That's on Siemian. They rushed four. Denver had six blockers and one came completely free. He completely mis-read the defense. Granted, LeBeau's defense is a PhD defense and we have an undergrad, but that sack was on him, not Booker. You shouldn't have four rushers with six blockers and have one come completely free.

Done with the offensive line excuses.

I'm as sick of the o-line deniers...

[spikerman]

They tried it when Trevor was healthy. It's safe to assume they don't like the play call because of his ankle sprain.

I don't remember them doing it once this year on short yardage.

[Simple Jaded]

He's had two years now and the offense has sucked both years. It's up to him to fix it. If you're given linemen who can't move the pile quit effing calling running plays up the middle on short yardage. That's where he sucks as a play caller. He doesn't play to his offense's strengths.

His offense doesn't have strengths, nothing works until the OL blocks someone. Stink was just on discussing the plays up the middle on short yardage, basically calling the G a ****ing idiot. It's not playcalling.

[VonDoom]

From Twitter:

Aqib Talib on Harry Douglas: "It was a dirty play by a sorry player..He tried to do something dirty so that's why I'm going to beat his ass"

[Freyaka]

A loss could be good. Hell, maybe even a few of them. I'll never root for the Broncos to lose, but sometimes a win covers up the stink on a turd. Take last week for instance. If not for tremendous defense the Broncos should have been beaten by a 2 win Jaguars team. There is nowhere for the offense to hide this week. Time for some serious evaluation of everything they're doing.

We still aren't out of anything either. We do need to win out, but if we win out we'll hold the tiebreaker over Miami due to common opponents. We'll still end up 6 seed or better if we win out.

[Tned]

I wasn't going to post due to the troll posts, but thought you guys needed to see this.

@sinow Ryan Tannehill is out for the season with an ACL injury

http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/12/11/dolphins-ryan-tannehill-acl-knee-injury-update?xid=socialflow_twitter_si

[Poet]

From Twitter:

Aqib Talib on Harry Douglas: "It was a dirty play by a sorry player..He tried to do something dirty so that's why I'm going to beat his ass"

Put Talib in the Hall of Fame now.

[spikerman]

His offense doesn't have strengths, nothing works until the OL blocks someone. Stink was just on discussing the plays up the middle on short yardage, basically calling the G a ****ing idiot. It's not playcalling.

I'm not arguing that the oline sucks. We all know it does. What I'm questioning is why Kubiak doesn't seem to realize it.

[Poet]

I wasn't going to post due to the troll posts, but thought you guys needed to see this.

@sinow Ryan Tannehill is out for the season with an ACL injury

http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/12/11/dolphins-ryan-tannehill-acl-knee-injury-update?xid=socialflow_twitter_si

I don't think anyone is trolling here sans Lynch12

Calais Campbell hit him in the knee and it was a big deal. I have heard announcers say that CC was shoved to the ground.

[pnbronco]

They tried it when Trevor was healthy. It's safe to assume they don't like the play call because of his ankle sprain.

They didn't know if TS was even going to play till yesterday and I think he's probably still hurt. I'm pretty sure the thought Sanchez would be the starting QB with the experience to be a better game manager. We know that Lynch isn't ready yet....so it would be nice if the O line could give TS some time.

[MOtorboat]

I'm as sick of the o-line deniers...

I'm not denying that the offensive line is bad. It's just not an excuse when Siemian screws up.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I don't remember them doing it once this year on short yardage.

I don't know about short yardage, but I've seen them run bootleg sweep and bootleg play action pass.

[Poet]

I'm not arguing that the oline sucks. We all know it does. What I'm questioning is why Kubiak doesn't seem to realize it.

Look, bro , you gotta understand that when the offensive line is bad it means the play calling, QB play, and rest of the offense doesn't matter at all. Ever.

[MOtorboat]

I don't think anyone is trolling here sans Lynch12

Calais Campbell hit him in the knee and it was a big deal. I have heard announcers say that CC was shoved to the ground.

Campbell has done that before, hasn't he?

[Poet]

Campbell has done that before, hasn't he?

Not to my knowledge.

[pnbronco]

From Twitter:

Aqib Talib on Harry Douglas: "It was a dirty play by a sorry player..He tried to do something dirty so that's why I'm going to beat his ass"

so I did hear right....with all the bleeps.....:D I think there were a few other words describing the sorry player....:laugh:

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I'm not arguing that the oline sucks. We all know it does. What I'm questioning is why Kubiak doesn't seem to realize it.

He does realize it. He's said multiple times this season they need to do a better job up front. There's not much they can do to fix it this year. There aren't any OG's or offensive line coaches sitting at home.

[spikerman]

I don't know about short yardage, but I've seen them run bootleg sweep and bootleg play action pass.

I'm specifically talking about short yardage. Instead of running on 2nd and 1 and not getting it, why not try a play fake and a pass past the marker? Does Kubiak not realize that's allowed. Hell, if you don't make it now it's 3rd and 1, which it will probably be after trying to run on 2nd down anyway.

[Lynch12]

Look, bro , you gotta understand that when the offensive line is bad it means the play calling, QB play, and rest of the offense doesn't matter at all. Ever.

Not really, the Colts were great on offense for a decade with a bad offensive line.

[Freyaka]

I don't think anyone is trolling here sans Lynch12

Calais Campbell hit him in the knee and it was a big deal. I have heard announcers say that CC was shoved to the ground.

So it's a big deal when someone nails a QB's knee...But Chris Harris can go kick rocks...

[Freyaka]

Not really, the Colts were great on offense for a decade with a bad offensive line.

Are you still here? Sad. I thought Gem was going to get it done, now I feel let down.

[spikerman]

He does realize it. He's said multiple times this season they need to do a better job up front. There's not much they can do to fix it this year. There aren't any OG's or offensive line coaches sitting at home.

So quit trying to force a square peg into a round hole. They can't blow people off the ball. Stop trying.

[VonDoom]

Not really, the Colts were great on offense for a decade with a bad offensive line.

Because they had a top five all time QB?

[VonDoom]

Harris on Twitter:

Dude tried to end my career, plan and simple I need to see that cash fine Monday .

[Poet]

So it's a big deal when someone nails a QB's knee...But Chris Harris can go kick rocks...

Pretty much. Douglass needs an ass beating. He took a cheap shot at a godly corner whom he could never beat. HD is a piece of shit, a coward, and a perennial loser. He probably has bad breath and the IQ of a chair.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Not really, the Colts were great on offense for a decade with a bad offensive line.

The Colts offensive line wasn't always bad. That's not even remotely accurate.

Look up Edgerrin James career stats.

[Poet]

Because they had a top five all time QB?

They had a QB who is a better OC than our HC/OC who could scheme around it.

[Lynch12]

He does realize it. He's said multiple times this season they need to do a better job up front. There's not much they can do to fix it this year. There aren't any OG's or offensive line coaches sitting at home.

He should have release two of them eary in the year to send a real message. Shuffling bums in and out the line-up wasnt teaching any of them any lessons. Benched one week, starting the next week with the same poor play. He should have released two of them to the streets.

[spikerman]

Look, bro , you gotta understand that when the offensive line is bad it means the play calling, QB play, and rest of the offense doesn't matter at all. Ever.

Of course you're right. It's why you're the king.

[Poet]

The Colts offensive line wasn't always bad. That's not even remotely accurate.

Look up Edgerrin James career stats.

The back half of Manning's career they were shit. The first half they were good. That's some nice football knowledge there. +250 style points.

[wayninja]

Harris on Twitter:

Dude tried to end my career, plan and simple I need to see that cash fine Monday .

Yep, from looking at the replay, it's hard to find room to argue with that.

[Nomad]

Pretty much. Douglass needs an ass beating. He took a cheap shot at a godly corner whom he could never beat. HD is a piece of shit, a coward, and a perennial loser. He probably has bad breath and the IQ of a chair.

Im baffled by the excuses for Douglass.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

So quit trying to force a square peg into a round hole. They can't blow people off the ball. Stop trying.

So what's the answer, throw the ball 60 times?

[Freyaka]

So quit trying to force a square peg into a round hole. They can't blow people off the ball. Stop trying.

Well, part of the running issues are Booker. I think that Forsett showed that on a few occasions.

[Poet]

So what's the answer, throw the ball 60 times?

You wanna have a real talk, Mayor?

[Freyaka]

So what's the answer, throw the ball 60 times?

You can't throw the ball all game. You can't abandon the rungame as much as some think we should. Because when you aren't even trying to run the ball then that takes away any chance of a play action pass.

[Simple Jaded]

You mean when he calls plays that he rarely calls and it works the line isn't blocking? If you want to talk about lazy analysis, we can start with your notion that 'the line is bad so he's blameless on playcalling'.

You can start there but it'd be a short discussion, I didn't say Kubiak is blameless. What I am saying is you're giving people examples of exceptions and expecting rational people to accept them as solutions to a breakthrough. "If only he Zigged instead of Zagged the OL would've done their job". The only possible solution that I know of to an OL that literally can't do anything is to run an A-11. And THAT should tell you how absurd this discussion is.

[spikerman]

So what's the answer, throw the ball 60 times?

Stop trying to run it up the middle in short yardage EVERY time.

[Lynch12]

Because they had a top five all time QB?

So out coach and offense is the worst offense ever known to mankind? To the point between all of them they can't come up with something? But one man alone was able to lead the league in points for a decade with his poor o line? Hmmm your really shitting on kubiak and the entire offense then.

[I Eat Staples]

I wasn't going to post due to the troll posts, but thought you guys needed to see this.

@sinow Ryan Tannehill is out for the season with an ACL injury

http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/12/11/dolphins-ryan-tannehill-acl-knee-injury-update?xid=socialflow_twitter_si

That sucks. Even if it helps our chance of making the playoffs, I hate seeing an injury ruin a player and team's season.

They were having a good season in Miami, awful to see that happen to Tannehill.

[Poet]

You can start there but it'd be a short discussion, I didn't say Kubiak is blameless. What I am saying is you're giving people examples of exceptions and expecting rational people to accept them as solutions to a breakthrough. The only possible solution that I know of to an OL that literally can't do anything is to run an A-11. And THAT should tell you how absurd this discussion is.

You've been shilling for the guy and essentially gave him a big ole pass. No one's saying they're a breakthrough. I think it's a fairly obvious solution which makes it even more frustrating. No one thinks a slant or four is going to solve everything, but you can mitigate the suckiness of a situation.

[pnbronco]

He does realize it. He's said multiple times this season they need to do a better job up front. There's not much they can do to fix it this year. There aren't any OG's or offensive line coaches sitting at home.

that's what I'm seeing....if anything I still wonder why Elway traded Chris Clark last year...he was better than what we ended up with from what I could see... We need to use our early picks O line....we need to get value for our picks. I still wonder why the heck we still have Jeff Heuerman on our team....I would have rather kept Kilgo. Jeff is a great guy and I like him, but come on.

I know this year has been tough...but Kubes got us a SB last year when IMO Fox had more talent and couldn't. So I'm not going to be upset with Kubes.

[Freyaka]

So out coach and offense is the worst offense ever known to mankind? To the point between all of them they can't come up with something? But one man alone was able to lead the league in points for a decade with his poor o line? Hmmm your really shitting on kubiak and the entire offense then.

Not the worst ever...We'd have to start Lynch to get the worst ever...

[wayninja]

So what's the answer, throw the ball 60 times?

No. But when literally everyone watching knows exactly what the playcall is going to be, that's a problem.

Kudos for the fake punt. The first chance/surprise I think I've seen this season.

[pnbronco]

Well, part of the running issues are Booker. I think that Forsett showed that on a few occasions.

Well Booker is a rookie and timing is so important. For me Forsett was a bright spot...except for the fumble, but he just got here on Tues.

[Freyaka]

Well Booker is a rookie and timing is so important. For me Forsett was a bright spot...except for the fumble, but he just got here on Tues.

The fumble was the same situation with him as it was derby. He had both hands on the ball, he did his job, the defender just did his job better.

[MOtorboat]

The fumble was the same situation with him as it was derby. He had both hands on the ball, he did his job, the defender just did his job better.

If you fumble, you didn't do your job.

[pnbronco]

I wasn't going to post due to the troll posts, but thought you guys needed to see this.

@sinow Ryan Tannehill is out for the season with an ACL injury

http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/12/11/dolphins-ryan-tannehill-acl-knee-injury-update?xid=socialflow_twitter_si

Thanks for in info Tned...that really does suck. I hate seeing any player get hurt that ends his season at best.

[Nomad]

If you fumble, you didn't do your job.

Well said, MO!

[Lynch12]

I guess there's a proper way to fumble now.... According to freker.

[Freyaka]

If you fumble, you didn't do your job.

If you cover the ball properly and the defender makes a play...Yes. You cannot prevent everything, sometimes you have to give the defense credit instead of throwing blame at someone who did everything he could. How would you have done a better job MO?

[Simple Jaded]

Here's how I see it happening; changes need to be made and Kubiak is too loyal to make them. I don't think "We're screwed!" for much longer.

Knapp is not a good coordinator , Dennison has never actually been a coordinator and the Co-coordinator thing has never worked at this leve that I am aware of. And from what I hear, Barone maybe needs to be moved back to TE coach because Pariani is a huge asshloe. They need one OC to work with Kubiak, and that guy is not currently on this staff. Dennison needs to go to OL coach and Knapp to just QB's, if either don't like it they can leave.

Again, from what I hear, the defense hates the offense and the offense blames their coaches. The starting WR's are getting toxic.

I don't think Kubiak has the stones to do what needs to be done.

If the Bills coaching staff gets gutted I'd take a swing at Anthony Lynn as OC.

[pnbronco]

Well said, MO!

Well if they have it out there like a purse then no they didn't do their job, or we've seen RB just drop the dang thing. I think both of the players will do much better in the future....

[Lynch12]

If you cover the ball properly and the defender makes a play...Yes. You cannot prevent everything, sometimes you have to give the defense credit instead of throwing blame at someone who did everything he could. How would you have done a better job MO?

I'm sure he'd start by holding onto the ball, I've seen guys concussed with huge hits and held the ball.... Quit trying to invent the proper way to fumble.

[wayninja]

If you cover the ball properly and the defender makes a play...Yes. You cannot prevent everything, sometimes you have to give the defense credit instead of throwing blame at someone who did everything he could. How would you have done a better job MO?

But you need to. Yes it was a great play.

It doesn't exonerate Derby or Forsett. Keeping the ball is literally the most important job for anyone who has it.

[MOtorboat]

If you cover the ball properly and the defender makes a play...Yes. You cannot prevent everything, sometimes you have to give the defense credit instead of throwing blame at someone who did everything he could. How would you have done a better job MO?

Well, he could have not fumbled. So there's that.

On an interception, do you tell a quarterback, well, you did your job, you threw the football?

[pnbronco]

Here's how I see it happening; changes need to be made and Kubiak is too loyal to make them. I don't think "We're screwed!" for much longer.

Knapp is not a good coordinator , Dennison has never actually been a coordinator and the Co-coordinator thing has never worked at this leve that I am aware. And from what I hear, Barone maybe needs to be moved back to TE coach because Pariani is a huge asshloe. They need one OC to work with Kubiak, and that guy is not currently on this staff.

Again, from what I hear, the defense hates the offense and the offense blames their coaches. This is getting toxic.

I don't think Kubiak has the stones to do what needs to be done.

I think it would be good if Barone went back to the TE's. I do think that Kubes is supper loyal the the men that work for him....so what do you think will happen Jaded. Elway step in on OC?

[Freyaka]

But you need to. Yes it was a great play.

It doesn't exonerate Derby or Forsett. Keeping the ball is literally the most important job for anyone who has it.

What should he have done differently? The defender got position on the ball and ripped it out. How did he not do what he should have done with both hands solidly on the ball? Sometimes defenders make plays...It sucks, but it is what it is.

I get blaming a guy when he's not properly protecting, but he did protect the ball, the defender got a hand on it. That happens. I'd rather have a guy who knows to grip with both hands than someone who is running around with the ball under his shoulder carrying with one arm.

[Freyaka]

Well, he could have not fumbled. So there's that.

On an interception, do you tell a quarterback, well, you did your job, you threw the football?

You know what blame whoever you want. I'm done trying to be rational with you and your buddy Lynch12 the troll...

[MOtorboat]

Well said, MO!

I've never heard that someone who fumbled did their job. Never heard it before, so it's a new one on me. I'm a little flabbergasted, honestly.

[MOtorboat]

You know what blame whoever you want. I'm done trying to be rational with you and your buddy Lynch12 the troll...

It's ok to disagree with me, but I am not a troll. I don't have a problem with you at all, I just disagree.

[Nomad]

Well if they have it out there like a purse then no they didn't do their job, or we've seen RB just drop the dang thing. I think both of the players will do much better in the future....

Yes, ma'am! :)

[Freyaka]

It's ok to disagree with me, but I am not a troll. I don't have a problem with you at all, I just disagree.

I didn't call you a troll. Lynch12 is the troll... You are being a bit dickish in your responses acting like I'm some idiot for not wanting to go on a witch hunt which fine whatever... but I called Lynch12 a troll I think we can all agree this is a true statement.

[Simple Jaded]

I think it would be good if Barone went back to the TE's. I do think that Kubes is supper loyal the the men that work for him....so what do you think will happen Jaded. Elway step in on OC?

I think Elway will want changes Kubes won't wanna make, and with Kubiak's health issues there is an easy path to an amicable parting.

Barone has coached three Pro Bowlers in his coaching career, Antonio Gates, Alge Crumpler and Julius Thomas. I'd say that's a strin enough resume to consider if the players can't stand Pariani.

Ironically, Barone isn't a Kubiak guy, he's a holdover from the two previous regimes, yet Kubiak is still overly loyal imo. Maybe a simple solution is found but I doubt this will be tolerated going into March of 2017.

[wayninja]

What should he have done differently? The defender got position on the ball and ripped it out. How did he not do what he should have done with both hands solidly on the ball? Sometimes defenders make plays...It sucks, but it is what it is.

I get blaming a guy when he's not properly protecting, but he did protect the ball, the defender got a hand on it. That happens. I'd rather have a guy who knows to grip with both hands than someone who is running around with the ball under his shoulder carrying with one arm.

Not let the defender rip it out? Go to the ground? I dunno, anything but lose the ball. The person holding the ball has almost every advantage.

It's not like they put an asterix by the stat for fumbles that weren't your fault or anything.

[MOtorboat]

I didn't call you a troll. Lynch12 is the troll... You are being a bit dickish in your responses acting like I'm some idiot for not wanting to go on a witch hunt which fine whatever... but I called Lynch12 a troll I think we can all agree this is a true statement.

It's a witch hunt to say someone shouldn't fumble?

[wayninja]

There's a movement on this board that if you don't agree, you have to be a troll.

Personally I find it hysterical. I'll wear the troll badge with honor if that's what it is.

[Freyaka]

It's a witch hunt to say someone shouldn't fumble?

I never said he should fumble. I just said you can't really be too hard on him for doing so when the defender made a huge play, but if you want to be pissed off at him for fumbling have at it. I instead will credit the defender for making a play rather than getting pissed at one of our own.

[Freyaka]

There's a movement on this board that if you don't agree, you have to be a troll.

Personally I find it hysterical. I'll wear the troll badge with honor if that's what it is.

Show me where I called you or him a troll...If you can do it I'll log out for the day, if not stop whining about it and move on.

Out of the three of you, Lynch12 is the only troll...

My beef with you is you are the biggest negative nancy in this thread today and have been since it started...That's your right, and it doesn't make you a troll, but it's a tad bit obnoxious.

[pnbronco]

I think Elway will want changes Kubes won't wanna make, and with Kubiak's health issues there is an easy path to an amicable parting.

Barone has coached three Pro Bowlers in his coaching career, Antonio Gates, Alge Crumpler and Julius Thomas. I'd say that's a strin enough resume to consider if the players can't stand Pariani.

Ironically, Barone isn't a Kubiak guy, he's a holdover from the two previous regimes, yet Kubiak is still overly loyal imo.

Interesting about Pariani....but our TE's have really not been effective this year....I would put Barone back there. I didn't realize he was here before Fox, but he's a WY guy and would talk to a friend of mine from WY, so I knew he was one of the few that was kept from before.

As far as Kubes goes it's that whole blessing and a curse thing.

[spikerman]

You can't throw the ball all game. You can't abandon the rungame as much as some think we should. Because when you aren't even trying to run the ball then that takes away any chance of a play action pass.

I never suggested that Denver abandon the running game. Just don't ALWAYS run it in running situations.

[Freyaka]

I never suggested that Denver abandon the running game. Just don't ALWAYS run it in running situations.

I don't disagree with that. We've got to get more creative with how we run, but we need to run as much or more than we do. Just gotta be smarter and not run it up the middle every play.

[wayninja]

Show me where I called you or him a troll...If you can do it I'll log out for the day, if not stop whining about it and move on.

Out of the three of you, Lynch12 is the only troll...

My beef with you is you are the biggest negative nancy in this thread today and have been since it started...That's your right, and it doesn't make you a troll, but it's a tad bit obnoxious.

Of the 3 of us, only one is a troll... so... why is it "out of the 3"? You mean, of... everyone?

You use the word "troll" in every other post. Talk about being obnoxious.

If I'm negative, it's because our offense has been shitty all season long... Or at least for the last 9 games. If recognizing that is being negative to you, I'm ok with that.

[Poet]

There's a movement on this board that if you don't agree, you have to be a troll.

Personally I find it hysterical. I'll wear the troll badge with honor if that's what it is.

The best thinkers are often the most hated.

[Freyaka]

Of the 3 of us, only one is a troll... so... why is it "out of the 3"? You mean, of... everyone?

You use the word "troll" in every other post. Talk about being obnoxious.

Of the three of you that I supposedly called a troll (you, MO, Lynch12) Lynch is the only one who is a troll. Got it??

[silkamilkamonico]

I don't disagree with that. We've got to get more creative with how we run, but we need to run as much or more than we do. Just gotta be smarter and not run it up the middle every play.

We're not going to get more creative. Not this year. We're 13 games into the season. It is what it is. A dumpsterfire. The entire offense is a dumpsterfire.

FOr myself, this a big concern moving forward with this organization on what it's going to do offensively. The current coaching staff hasn't shown an ability to progress players, develop scheme, put the current players in the best situation to win games, and adjust throughout the flow of games. They haven't even shown an ability to draft and put the right players in place.

[Freyaka]

We're not going to get more creative. Not this year. We're 13 games into the season. It is what it is. A dumpsterfire. The entire offense is a dumpsterfire.

You can get creative during any play of any game at any point in the season...It isn't something you have to plan on in the preseason to execute. This offense is far from a dumpster fire. It needs to play 4 quarters, but when they do play, they play well...

Coaching staff needs to pull their heads out and call smarter plays. That's pretty much the heart of it all.

[spikerman]

We're not going to get more creative. Not this year. We're 13 games into the season. It is what it is. A dumpsterfire. The entire offense is a dumpsterfire.

FOr myself, this a big concern moving forward with this organization on what it's going to do offensively. The current coaching staff hasn't shown an ability to progress players, develop scheme, put the current players in the best situation to win games, and adjust throughout the flow of games. They haven't even shown an ability to draft and put the right players in place.
Sounds like "we're screwed." :D

[Freyaka]

All it takes is to get hot at the right time. That might not happen for us, in fact it's not real likely to happen for us, but I'm not giving up just yet. We get to the playoffs even if we aren't playing great and anything is possible (just ask the Giants)

[Denver Native (Carol)]

He's had two years now and the offense has sucked both years. It's up to him to fix it. If you're given linemen who can't move the pile quit effing calling running plays up the middle on short yardage. That's where he sucks as a play caller. He doesn't play to his offense's strengths.

There is no offense strength in the OL, whether it be run plays or pass plays. With a weak OL, whether running or passing, the offense is not going to be good, as the play starts with the OL.

[wayninja]

The best thinkers are often the most hated.

I hate you so much.

[Freyaka]

There is no offense strength in the OL, whether it be run plays or pass plays. With a weak OL, whether running or passing, the offense is not going to be good, as the play starts with the OL.

You are correct, but you also can't run EVERY SINGLE run play up the middle and expect a different result. There is no variety, there is no creativity, it's predictable. I watched the Jags game with my brother who is a Jags fan. He doesn't follow this team. midway through the first quarter even he was like "man, you guys always run it inside don't you"...We are predictable as hell.

If a team knows "hey, they always run up the gut" all they got to do is clog the middle everytime and not worry about us kicking outside.

[spikerman]

There is no offense strength in the OL, whether it be run plays or pass plays. With a weak OL, whether running or passing, the offense is not going to be good, as the play starts with the OL.

I know the OL limits what the team can do, but there are things an OC can do to keep the defense off balance such as mis-direction plays, etc. Kubiak just won't do it.

[MOtorboat]

I know the OL limits what the team can do, but there are things an OC can do to keep the defense off balance such as mis-direction plays, etc. Kubiak just won't do it.

Their attempt to get defenses off balance seems to be to come out with quick passes. It hasn't worked very well, outside of a few first downs here and there. Need to try something new with the script.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Troy Renck Retweeted
Chris Harris ‏@ChrisHarrisJr 54m

Dude tried to end my career, plan and simple I need to see that cash fine Monday .

Troy Renck ‏@TroyRenck 37m

#Broncos @BossWard43 on hit on @ChrisHarrisJr "we are a family, especially on defense. We all had his back" @DenverChannel

[nevcraw]

I think the defense is spent from being on the field so much.

Ding ding ding

[Simple Jaded]

I know the OL limits what the team can do, but there are things an OC can do to keep the defense off balance such as mis-direction plays, etc. Kubiak just won't do it.

He's done that and it doesn't work.

He's run jet sweeps that barely get back to the LOS because the backside defenders don't have to worry about stopping the action away from them. When their DL blows up the play as consistently as they have been there's no reason for the defense to overpursue.

Being able to win by smoke and mirrors is not what teams look for in an OC, anyway.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Troy Renck ‏@TroyRenck 58m

Talib still angry after game. Issue was with Douglas using "dirty play" that #Broncos felt could have resulted in serious injury #DENvsTEN

Troy Renck Retweeted
Cameron Wolfe ‏@CameronWolfe 1h

Aqib Talib on Harry Douglas: "It was a dirty play by a sorry player..He tried to do something dirty so that's why I'm going to beat his ass"

Troy Renck ‏@TroyRenck 1h

#Broncos Talib reacted bc like teammates feared @ChrisHarrisJr suffered serious injury. #DENvsTEN

[Simple Jaded]

You are correct, but you also can't run EVERY SINGLE run play up the middle and expect a different result. There is no variety, there is no creativity, it's predictable. I watched the Jags game with my brother who is a Jags fan. He doesn't follow this team. midway through the first quarter even he was like "man, you guys always run it inside don't you"...We are predictable as hell.

If a team knows "hey, they always run up the gut" all they got to do is clog the middle everytime and not worry about us kicking outside.

They don't run every single play up the middle.

[Simple Jaded]

Troy Renck ‏@TroyRenck 58m

Talib still angry after game. Issue was with Douglas using "dirty play" that #Broncos felt could have resulted in serious injury #DENvsTEN

Troy Renck Retweeted
Cameron Wolfe ‏@CameronWolfe 1h

Aqib Talib on Harry Douglas: "It was a dirty play by a sorry player..He tried to do something dirty so that's why I'm going to beat his ass"

Troy Renck ‏@TroyRenck 1h

#Broncos Talib reacted bc like teammates feared @ChrisHarrisJr suffered serious injury. #DENvsTEN

My dog!

[Freyaka]

They don't run every single play up the middle.

They run an extremely large portion of the runs directly up the middle for minimal or no yardage.

[spikerman]

He's done that and it doesn't work.

He's run jet sweeps that barely get back to the LOS because the backside defenders don't have to worry about stopping the action away from them. When their DL blows up the play as consistently as they have been there's no reason for the defense to overpursue.

Being able to win by smoke and mirrors is not what teams look for in an OC, anyway.
Doing it every once in a great while doesn't prove anything. What do they look for in an OC? Someone who can make the offense better? They don't have that, so how about someone who can try something new to work with the deficiencies they have? They don't seem to have that either.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Nicki Jhabvala ‏@NickiJhabvala 1h

Harris said his knee hurts a little but he'll be ok. Said his career flashed before his eyes, especially after his 2013 knee surgery

Nicki Jhabvala ‏@NickiJhabvala 1h

Chris Harris on hit by Douglas: "That's dirty. He should be fined. That's not football. ... Never had a guy try to end my career like that."

[Northman]

Troy Renck Retweeted
Chris Harris ‏@ChrisHarrisJr 54m

Dude tried to end my career, plan and simple I need to see that cash fine Monday .

Troy Renck ‏@TroyRenck 37m

#Broncos @BossWard43 on hit on @ChrisHarrisJr "we are a family, especially on defense. We all had his back" @DenverChannel

When i saw that play i instantly was taken back to Dale Carter when he was a Chief. That is complete BS and Douglas needs to be fined for sure if not suspended for a game.

[Freyaka]

When i saw that play i instantly was taken back to Dale Carter when he was a Chief. That is complete BS and Douglas needs to be fined for sure if not suspended for a game.

Suspension for sure...To intentionally try and take a guy out like that. It's bogus.

[Simple Jaded]

They run an extremely large portion of the runs directly up the middle for minimal or no yardage.

By my count the number is approximately 3.9957% of the time, which is close to the league average of 3.14159. It's a pretty symmetrical number.

[Simple Jaded]

Doing it every once in a great while doesn't prove anything. What do they look for in an OC? Someone who can make the offense better? They don't have that, so how about someone who can try something new to work with the deficiencies they have? They don't seem to have that either.

Actually most teams look for just ONE coordinator instead of this "Co-coordinator" bullshit they have, maybe that's the solution.

The Broncos basically have three headed OC and only one of them is qualified.

[spikerman]

Actually most teams look for just ONE coordinator instead of this "Co-coordinator" bullshit they have, maybe that's the solution.

That could be. I know that whatever they're doing now isn't working.

[Northman]

That could be. I know that whatever they're doing now isn't working.

There really is no creativity offensively. By this point in the season you would think they would have figured out how to make some progress with this offense.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Mike Klis ‏@MikeKlis 9m

Aqib Talib on tussle helping: “It didn’t change that much we didn’t win. Trev played a hellvua game, we’ve got to do a better job closing.’’

Mike Klis ‏@MikeKlis 47m

LB Todd Davis has strained left oblique. Suffered in second quarter. Zaire Anderson replaced him and had 5 tackles. #9sports

Mike Klis ‏@MikeKlis 48m

Apologies to E. Sanders. TV didn't show but he said deep ball down left side was tipped off his thumb. "I catch that pass.'' #9sports

[Simple Jaded]

That could be. I know that whatever they're doing now isn't working.


There really is no creativity offensively. By this point in the season you would think they would have figured out how to make some progress with this offense.

They're going down kicking and screaming by sticking with everything that they started the season with. It's a bold strategy, Cotton.

[Simple Jaded]

I read an article the other day that talked about the top teams in the NFL right now and how those teams have coordinators on both sides of the ball that either have HC experience and/or an OC/DC with legitimate HC aspirations. The Broncos have Phillips.

Dennison and Knapp are not Coordinators and Kubiak clearly can't do both, I think there's "Co-coordinators" because of the fact that Kubiak will pop if he tried to do both. I think he's a fine OC, I love him as a HC, I wanna see this team with a definitive OC. Even is Kubiak wants to keep playcalling duties.

This needs to happen.

Greg Olson has WCO experience with Mooch and a pretty solid resume for developing young QB's. Anthony Lynn has experience in THIS WCO as he played under and began his coaching career under Shanatan. Kyle Shanatan and Lynn are probably out of the question anyway.

[Magnificent Seven]

Two fumbles have costed our game. SMH.

Broncos MUST WIN all 3 games to lock up seed # 6 or # 5.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Broncos cornerback Chris Harris Jr., the victim of a cheap-shot hit by Harry Douglas, put the Titans wide receiver on absolute blast after the game.

In a series of tweets, Harris urged the league to fine Douglas for trying to "end my career" during Sunday's meeting of the teams.

AND


Wolfe claimed he'll "send his address" to Douglas to "come see me in the offseason, and that Tennessee's tactics extend far beyond the wideout.

“They were all doing dirty stuff. Their whole offensive line was dirty,” Wolfe said, per The Gazette. “I was getting grabbed by my (injured) elbow and yanked by my elbow brace and pulled to the ground. That’s obviously the team they are. They’re dirty. We combatted that. If we have to have a bench-clearing brawl and we have to fight — if I have to give you my address and you come see me in the offseason — we will.”

full article - http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/chris-harris-jr-demands-nfl-fine-for-harry-douglas/

[MOtorboat]

Unfortunately, it will all be received as sour grapes.

[Simple Jaded]

The Broncos have 7 WR's and 2 LS's on their roster but only 5 DL. They have two OL that have never suited up for a game and a couple OL that have suited up but have never played well enough to deserve to suit up. Stopping the run and running the ball are the biggest issues, respectively, and the Broncos load up on superfluous WR's and LS?

Gary Kubiak deserves his share of criticism, playcalling and scheme included, but this is where I start.

[DenBronx]

I lost interest in football awhile back. Sucks to lose but this is the first time I have ever been this disinterested in football. It's probably stress from work and life but usually football is my happy place.

[spikerman]

The Broncos have 7 WR's and 2 LS's on their roster but only 5 DL. They have two OL that have never suited up for a game and a couple OL that have suited up but have never played well enough to deserve to suit up. Stopping the run and running the ball are the biggest issues, respectively, and the Broncos load up on superfluous WR's and LS?

Gary Kubiak deserves his share of criticism, playcalling and scheme included, but this is where I start.

This is a very good post. We might disagree on the order of problems but I agree with the issues you've pointed out.

[NightTerror218]

Broncos need to play a full game and not just 1 half.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

There's a movement on this board that if you don't agree, you have to be a troll.

Personally I find it hysterical. I'll wear the troll badge with honor if that's what it is.

I commend your willingness to wear the badge of persecution

[Simple Jaded]

Maybe the Broncos OL needs to start playing dirty.

[spikerman]

Broncos need to play a full game and not just 1 half.

Or one quarter.

[spikerman]

I lost interest in football awhile back. Sucks to lose but this is the first time I have ever been this disinterested in football. It's probably stress from work and life but usually football is my happy place.

It still can be. Just don't take it too seriously. It's just a game played by men that most of us will never meet.

[spikerman]

For what it's worth, from the Denver Post:

Not a great day for Gary Kubiak and the coaching staff. The first half offensive struggles fall largely on this group not being able to figure out a way to get more production in the run game, or even first downs to keep the defense fresh. Play calls were often predictable and stale. Third-and-short failures continue to plague this team. In a near must-win game, the Broncos did not bring their A game and that’s on the coaches.

http://www.denverpost.com/2016/12/11/broncos-titans-report-card-game-balls/

[MasterShake]

It still can be. Just don't take it too seriously. It's just a game played by men that most of us will never meet.

Exactly. The loss sucks but at the end of the day it's just a game. Broncos are still playing meaningful football in December and if they can just put together more than one half it could be a fun fight to make the playoffs. It's frustrating to watch, but I get over it pretty quick. I'm already looking forward to seeing Brady hopefully get smoked by our D again. Titans were just a bad matchup.

[Simple Jaded]

This is a very good post. We might disagree on the order of problems but I agree with the issues you've pointed out.

I am a huge Kubiak fan but just like you I know he's got chinks in the armor. Even if he had a competen OL and minimal issues to complain about on offense, there are things about his offense that drive me up a ****ing wall. In the past it's almost always been about personnel but when it comes to his scheme he's like Shanatan and Josh McDaniels in the sense that they think the system is the "talent".

That drives me absolutely bat shit crazy, everybody's scheme is shit without talent. And it has always come back to bite Kub/Shanatan in the ass with whatever the **** they think they're looking for in players. This scheme is every bit as dominant as the Cowballs offense with THAT OL. I was bitching about this ZBS fatal flaws in 2005 when everybody still thought Shanatan was a lifer.

So, what's driving me batty atm is the hording of players that struggle to make any other team. Do they really need to cut a rotational DL to make sure nobody picks up one of the Jordan's? If they lose one of the Jordan's do they really feel a tangible impact? Is Kreiter so important that they can't put him on IR and roll with his replacement? No, **** no and **** no!

Kubiak may love Sunshine and Elway must not wanna give up on Latimer but which one has a better chance of making it to PS? It sure as **** isn't Latimer. And if Tolbert/Knapp/Kubiak can't get Sunshines marginal contributions out of a 2nd round bust they need to find new jobs...as in completely NEW jobs...as in a completely other field.

[NightTerror218]

I am a huge Kubiak fan but just like you I know he's got chinks in the armor. Even if he had a competen OL and minimal issues to complain about on offense, there are things about his offense that drive me up a ****ing wall. In the past it's almost always been about personnel but when it comes to his scheme he's like Shanatan and Josh McDaniels in the sense that they think the system is the "talent".

That drives me absolutely bat shit crazy, everybody's scheme is shit without talent. And it has always come back to bite Kub/Shanatan in the ass with whatever the **** they think they're looking for in players. This scheme is every bit as dominant as the Cowballs offense with THAT OL.

So, what's driving me batty atm is the hording of players that struggle to make any other team. Do they really need to cut a rotational DL to make sure nobody picks up one of the Jordan's? If they lose one of the Jordan's do they really feel a tangible impact? Is Kreiter so important that they can't put him on IR and roll with his replacement? No, **** no and **** no!

Kubiak may love Sunshine and Elway must not wanna give up on Latimer but which one has a better chance of making it to PS? It sure as **** isn't Latimer. And if Tolbert/Knapp/Kubiak can't get Sunshines marginal contributions out of a 2nd round bust they need to find new jobs...as in completely NEW jobs...as in a completely other field.

The one problem with your arguement is that latimore is a great ST guy.

[Tned]

There's a movement on this board that if you don't agree, you have to be a troll.

Personally I find it hysterical. I'll wear the troll badge with honor if that's what it is.

You do proudly wear the badge at times, but it has nothing to do with disagreeing with anyone's opinion.

[Simple Jaded]

The one problem with your arguement is that latimore is a great ST guy.

This is true, and to be clear, I think Latimer would be doing just fine with Sunshines reps. I like Latimer and my argument is basically aimed to criticizing the need to hang onto the Jordan's. Taylor is a PS guy, imo, and I think Norwood's presence is stunting the growth of Latimer and Fowler. The Jordan's contributions are marginal at best, you can get that and ST's contributions from Latimer and Folwer and save the roster spot for the DL.

[Simple Jaded]

Right here, right now I would dump the Jordan's and sign John Jenkins and Quinton Coples. Go with 7 DL's down the stretch.

Both Jordan's would still be there if you need them later on, at least that's my opinion anyway.

[Simple Jaded]

Jenkins, Coples and Travis Feeney, who is a coverage ILB/OLB off the Stealers PS. Load back up on defense.

[Tned]

For what it's worth, from the Denver Post:

Not a great day for Gary Kubiak and the coaching staff. The first half offensive struggles fall largely on this group not being able to figure out a way to get more production in the run game, or even first downs to keep the defense fresh. Play calls were often predictable and stale. Third-and-short failures continue to plague this team. In a near must-win game, the Broncos did not bring their A game and that’s on the coaches.

http://www.denverpost.com/2016/12/11/broncos-titans-report-card-game-balls/


There really is no creativity offensively. By this point in the season you would think they would have figured out how to make some progress with this offense.

There are a lot of posters saying the Broncos need a different game plan, call different plays. I 100% agree.

However, there are some that are saying they need to call more play action. A play action, or play fake, as you guys know is to have the QB fake a handoff to a RB to make the defense think you are running the ball. This is effective, when you ARE successfully running the ball, and the defense actually has to focus on defending the run.

The Broncos managed 18 rushing yards. Not on a drive. Not in a quarter. Not in a half. In a game. 18 rushing yards. Does anyone here really believe that the Titans feared the Broncos rushing attack?

I'm not sure how many on here were watching the Broncos during the '05/'06 AFCCG against Pitt, but that's what happens when you continue to run play action on a day when you have zero success running the ball. If you didn't see or don't remember the game, it isn't pretty.

When you run effective play action, you have to sell. That means not just a fake hand off, but you OL needs to look like they are run blocking. Both the QB hesitation and the OL selling the "fake" all result in giving the defense an edge if they don't "buy" what you are selling, and therefore you are burning some of the already limited seconds that the Broncos QB is protected in this offense.

It's a fantasy to think that more play action will be successful when the team can't run the ball.

At this point, the Broncos would be better off to come out throwing the ball, like the first couple games of the season. Going empty backfield, single back, shotgun, etc. and spread things out with fast, quick hitting throws, combined with taking a deep shot often enough to keep them honest, and then throw in the runs here and there to protect against all out pass rushes on every down.

If the Broncos QB is going to pass it 40-50 times a game, rather than stacking most of them in the second half after a "Dan Reeve's" esque first half of futility and that mad scramble to come back, Kubiak would be much better off giving up on what he clearly doesn't have the talent to do, and start giving his players a chance to succeed.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Siemian cites slow start in close loss
Quarterback Trevor Siemian addresses the media after coming up short in a 13-10 loss to the Tennessee Titans.

http://www.denverbroncos.com/multimedia/videos/Siemian-cites-slow-start-in-close-loss/bc924ef5-2190-40aa-a473-d9b74abe445b

[I Eat Staples]

No idea why Latimer still can't see the field on offense. We know that he's athletic, can nobody teach him how to run routes? Is he just stupid?

[Simple Jaded]

For what it's worth, from the Denver Post:

Not a great day for Gary Kubiak and the coaching staff. The first half offensive struggles fall largely on this group not being able to figure out a way to get more production in the run game, or even first downs to keep the defense fresh. Play calls were often predictable and stale. Third-and-short failures continue to plague this team. In a near must-win game, the Broncos did not bring their A game and that’s on the coaches.

http://www.denverpost.com/2016/12/11/broncos-titans-report-card-game-balls/

Again, they say the problem is not getting the running game going in one sentence and lament the predictability in the next. The running game isn't about slight of hand, it's about beating the guy in front of you.

[spikerman]

There are a lot of posters saying the Broncos need a different game plan, call different plays. I 100% agree.

However, there are some that are saying they need to call more play action. A play action, or play fake, as you guys know is to have the QB fake a handoff to a RB to make the defense think you are running the ball. This is effective, when you ARE successfully running the ball, and the defense actually has to focus on defending the run.

The Broncos managed 18 rushing yards. Not on a drive. Not in a quarter. Not in a half. In a game. 18 rushing yards. Does anyone here really believe that the Titans feared the Broncos rushing attack?

I'm not sure how many on here were watching the Broncos during the '05/'06 AFCCG against Pitt, but that's what happens when you continue to run play action on a day when you have zero success running the ball. If you didn't see or don't remember the game, it isn't pretty.

When you run effective play action, you have to sell. That means not just a fake hand off, but you OL needs to look like they are run blocking. Both the QB hesitation and the OL selling the "fake" all result in giving the defense an edge, and burning some of the already not enough time that the Broncos QB is protected in this offense.

It's a fantasy to think that more play action will be successful when the team can't run the ball.

At this point, the Broncos would be better off to come out throwing the ball, like the first couple games of the season. Going empty backfield, single back, shotgun, etc. and spread things out with fast, quick hitting throws, combined with taking a deep shot often enough to keep them honest, and then throw in the runs here and there to protect against all out pass rushes on every down.

If the Broncos QB is going to pass it 40-50 times a game, rather than stacking most of them in the second half after a "Dan Reeve's" esque first half of futility and that mad scramble to come back, Kubiak would be much better off giving up on what he clearly doesn't have the talent to do, and start giving his players a chance to succeed.

I disagree for this reason... even though they're always unsuccessful, the Broncos continue to try to run it on short yardage. Other teams know this so even though Denver can't run it on short yardage other teams expect them to try which opens up the play action.

[Poet]

Again, they say the problem is not getting the running game going in one sentence and lament the predictability in the next. The running game isn't about slight of hand, it's about beating the guy in front of you.


Bro..............

[Freyaka]

Broncos need to play a full game and not just 1 half.

Completely agree man.

[Simple Jaded]

No idea why Latimer still can't see the field on offense. We know that he's athletic, can nobody teach him how to run routes? Is he just stupid?

There's far less options runnning routes than there was in Mannings offense though. How has Sunshine passed Fowler? This makes no sense to me either. I know Folwer dropped an easy TD, I still don't get it.

[Freyaka]

The Broncos have 7 WR's and 2 LS's on their roster but only 5 DL. They have two OL that have never suited up for a game and a couple OL that have suited up but have never played well enough to deserve to suit up. Stopping the run and running the ball are the biggest issues, respectively, and the Broncos load up on superfluous WR's and LS?

Gary Kubiak deserves his share of criticism, playcalling and scheme included, but this is where I start.

Can't disagree with this post.

[Simple Jaded]

Bro..............

I have a good point though.

[Tned]

I disagree for this reason... even though they're always unsuccessful, the Broncos continue to try to run it on short yardage. Other teams know this so even though Denver can't run it on short yardage other teams expect them to try which opens up the play action.

Again, if you've forgotten, go rewatch the AFFCG. Play action behind a line that can't straight up pass block, when you also can't run the ball, just doesn't work. Like I said, I'm not even coming close to defending Kubiak's play calling. I think it's been horrendous. When he was hired, I said I loved the hire, but my one concern is that he's a one trick pony and if that trick (running the ball successfully to setup play action passing) isn't working, then his offense sucks. He doesn't adjust. He doesn't change schemes to fit his players (even though eventually he morphed last year, somewhat to my surprise, but I doubt he would do it for anyone other than a Peyton Manning).

I just disagree that more PA will be any help.

[Freyaka]

Again, they say the problem is not getting the running game going in one sentence and lament the predictability in the next. The running game isn't about slight of hand, it's about beating the guy in front of you.

You realize there is more than one running call right? The issue is that we are predictable in how we run (between the tackles) and that's pretty consistently happening. We're very, very predictable.

[Freyaka]

Unfortunately, it will all be received as sour grapes.

It will, just like any of us saying anything will as well. I posted the video on facebook and I was fricken pissed...All of my chiefs, patriots, chargers, ect... friends were basically claiming it was a perfectly legal block and we need to just get over it and stop being such cry babies.

[spikerman]

Again, if you've forgotten, go rewatch the AFFCG. Play action behind a line that can't straight up pass block, when you also can't run the ball, just doesn't work. Like I said, I'm not even coming close to defending Kubiak's play calling. I think it's been horrendous. When he was hired, I said I loved the hire, but my one concern is that he's a one trick pony and if that trick (running the ball successfully to setup play action passing) isn't working, then his offense sucks. He doesn't adjust. He doesn't change schemes to fit his players (even though eventually he morphed last year, somewhat to my surprise, but I doubt he would do it for anyone other than a Peyton Manning).

I just disagree that more PA will be any help.
That's ok, we can agree to disagree. I am not an advocate of constant play action - you have to pick your spots, but you have to put some doubt in the minds of the defenders.

[Freyaka]

That's ok, we can agree to disagree. I am not an advocate of constant play action - you have to pick your spots, but you have to put some doubt in the minds of the defenders.

The biggest issue is there is no one single thing we do well enough to scare defenses. You can't keep them honest when you are consistently inconsistent

[Poet]

When you run the ball a lot teams have to respect it. That's why for several years I watched the Bengals with BJGE as the starter use PA well, even when he wasn't running the ball well. It's hyperbole to think that we're always getting stuffed at the line every last line, too. The 'fantasy' of 'the line is bad so nothing else matters' is mind numbing to me.

We can't run three or four more playactions a game because the line is bad. Apparently we can't dial up different route combinations because the line is bad. I mean **** it, we just can't do anything because the line is bad. ****, why even take the field, the line's bad.

The past several weeks I've heard 'Kubiak can only call the plays the line can block for' and we've seen to various degrees of deep passes. Some of them didn't work because the line didn't block it, and other times it didn't work bcause the WR dropped it, the QB under/over threw it, the DB made a great play, or some combination of factors. We as fans talk about the playcalling as if short routes are all that can be called, and as if you can't have a diverse set of options just with short and intermediate routes.

For weeks I've said the middle of the field is open. Remember DT's catch? Fowler's near TD? Sanders had some plays over the middle, too. The fumbling TE even made a nice catch before throwing it away over the middle. The middle of the field remains open. We should work that more often; at this point if someone disputes that I'm just going to respond by ignoring them.

To get back to the playaction bit: Throughout the first half I watched our RB get wrapped up by linebackers early in the run play. The linebackers. The players who might bit on PA since we often run the ball in very obvious situations and they, those said players, are the ones who do the tackling. So yeah, more PA please. Furthermore, if you remember the series were we got the ball deep into our own ednzone, I think in the fourth quarter, PA worked perfectly and we picked up a first down. The fact that people think that we can't or shouldn't do more PA simply tells me that they've either just married the whole 'the line is bad so **** it, good game' or they are so frustrated that they are simply ignoring basic fundamentals of the game.

[Poet]

That's ok, we can agree to disagree. I am not an advocate of constant play action - you have to pick your spots, but you have to put some doubt in the minds of the defenders.

No one is calling for constant play action. That sentiment exists amongst people who are too zealous for their own good.

[Simple Jaded]

I disagree for this reason... even though they're always unsuccessful, the Broncos continue to try to run it on short yardage. Other teams know this so even though Denver can't run it on short yardage other teams expect them to try which opens up the play action.

Other teams don't have to worry about the run, they can stop the run even if they are playing pass all the way. If you can stop the run one handed and even the weakest of pass rushes are getting to the QB you know your opponent is limited to short stuff and low percentage/low risk deep throws.

The OL can't run the ball (I mean AT ALL) and they can't pass block well enough to get teams to lay off the underneath stuff. They don't even have to key on a fake handoff.

[Poet]

Bro..............

Draws, pitches, etc. There's some 'slight of hand' and 'trickeration'.

[Simple Jaded]

You realize there is more than one running call right? The issue is that we are predictable in how we run (between the tackles) and that's pretty consistently happening. We're very, very predictable.

Of course, I've been playing Madden since it was called Techmo Bowl. These play calls may have different names but they all end the same.

[Shazam!]

Tony Romo will be here in 2017. I guarantee it.

[Simple Jaded]

Draws, pitches, etc. There's some 'slight of hand' and 'trickeration'.

Well, when they run from shotgun those are glorified draws anyway. A pitch would be nice, makes me wonder why the Broncos hand off their stretch run when they had so much success pitching it back in TD's day.

But to be fair, TD was a sure fire HoFer so they probably don't think mere mortals can run that play like he did. Hall of Fame RB, those were the days.

:D

[Tned]

That's ok, we can agree to disagree. I am not an advocate of constant play action - you have to pick your spots, but you have to put some doubt in the minds of the defenders.

They did a lot more play fakes in the fIrst six games than they have done in the last seven or so. The running game has been so abysmal and pass protection horrible, that they've mostly abandoned those slow developing plays.

[Valar Morghulis]

Tony Romo will be here in 2017. I guarantee it.

I would rather invest in the oline and keep TFS

[Simple Jaded]

At least we can all agree that Terrell Davis is a Hall of Fame RB.

[Simple Jaded]

I would rather invest in the oline and keep TFS

Agreed, this may not be sexy but it gives me a boner so hard a cat couldn't scratch it.

[spikerman]

They did a lot more play fakes in the fIrst six games than they have done in the last seven or so. The running game has been so abysmal and pass protection horrible, that they've mostly abandoned those slow developing plays.

But not the ineffective short yardage runs through the A-gap?

[Poet]

But not the ineffective short yardage runs through the A-gap?

Of course the PA wouldn't work because the LB's are too used to tackling our RB after a one or two yard gai.........

[turftoad]

Bottoms line. Doesn't matter how good your "D" is.

You have to put more than 10 points on the board to win in this league.

[spikerman]

Bottoms line. Doesn't matter how good your "D" is.

You have to put more than 10 points on the board to win in this league.
Yep... that sums it up perfectly.

[Simple Jaded]

Put it this way; would you ever lose Rock, Paper Scissors if you knew for certain that your opponent can't make a fist? Thats the Broncos OL, they need to just start kicking people in the nuts, change the game, play for keeps.

#roshambo

[spikerman]

Put it this way; would you ever lose Rock, Paper Scissors if you knew for certain that your opponent can't make a fist? Thats the Broncos OL, they need to just start kicking people in the nuts, change the game, play for keeps.

#roshambo
What if your opponent could occasionally make a fist but you knew he was going to do it on the 1st and 3rd time and never varied from it?

[G_Money]

Tony Romo will be here in 2017. I guarantee it.

Is he bringing La'el Collins with him? Cuz that's what we really need.

[I Eat Staples]

It will, just like any of us saying anything will as well. I posted the video on facebook and I was fricken pissed...All of my chiefs, patriots, chargers, ect... friends were basically claiming it was a perfectly legal block and we need to just get over it and stop being such cry babies.

It WAS a legal hit, by rule, but it's still a shitty dirty play. It wasn't even a block as part of the play, it was away from the play, clearly the only intent was to take out Harris' knee.

That's not a penalty in the NFL but making a ******* snow angel is. Player safety and all.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

2017 OL Free Agents - there's a bunch of them

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/offensive-line/

[spikerman]

It WAS a legal hit, by rule, but it's still a shitty dirty play. It wasn't even a block as part of the play, it was away from the play, clearly the only intent was to take out Harris' knee.

That's not a penalty in the NFL but making a ******* snow angel is. Player safety and all.

I think they could have flagged that as unnecessary roughness. Since it was flagrant he could also have been ejected.

[Poet]

Is he bringing La'el Collins with him? Cuz that's what we really need.


That center of theirs is a hoss, too.

[Tned]

No one is calling for constant play action. That sentiment exists amongst people who are too zealous for their own good.

:sigh:

[Poet]

:sigh:

Welcome to how I feel.

[Tned]

Welcome to how I feel.

When you're late to the party, you don't get to welcome people that are already there, buddy.

[Poet]

When you're late to the party, you don't get to welcome people that are already there, buddy.

What party am I late too, exactly?

[Slick]

You know that third down play at the beginning of the game where everyone blamed Booker for a bad block? That's on Siemian. They rushed four. Denver had six blockers and one came completely free. He completely mis-read the defense. Granted, LeBeau's defense is a PhD defense and we have an undergrad, but that sack was on him, not Booker. You shouldn't have four rushers with six blockers and have one come completely free.

Done with the offensive line excuses.

He actually saw the defender go around the line untouched, watched Booker miss the block, and just stood there while the guy teed him up.

Terrible awareness on his part.

[NightTerror218]

Offense needs a spark. OL is playing bad but we dont have the depth to switch people out. Might need to switch things up. Something needs to change.

[Poet]

He actually saw the defender go around the line untouched, watched Booker miss the block, and just stood there while the guy teed him up.

Terrible awareness on his part.

I've brought up mental mistakes on TS before, but it's all on the line or his inexperience. Apparently TS' avid fans believe there is no incremental learning and such learning only is 'gained' at the start of each season/training camp.

[Tned]

I've brought up mental mistakes on TS before, but it's all on the line or his inexperience. Apparently TS' avid fans believe there is no incremental learning and such learning only is 'gained' at the start of each season/training camp.

Can I ask why you are continuously focused on other posters, and what you "think" they believe, rather than just having honest and open discussions even when people hold different opinions than your own?

[Freyaka]

What party am I late too, exactly?

The curmudgeon party.

[Slick]

I've brought up mental mistakes on TS before, but it's all on the line or his inexperience. Apparently TS' avid fans believe there is no incremental learning and such learning only is 'gained' at the start of each season/training camp.

I've seen you, I just haven't bothered lately.

He's still the best option at this point. I thought Lynch might do better because he is a much better athlete but I worry he might not be smart enough for the NFL game.

Denver's offense is painful to watch. The defense has to be frustrated at this point. I'm sure there's quite a bit of tension between the two sides in the locker room.

[Poet]

I've seen you, I just haven't bothered lately.

He's still the best option at this point. I thought Lynch might do better because he is a much better athlete but I worry he might not be smart enough for the NFL game.

Denver's offense is painful to watch. The defense has to be frustrated at this point. I'm sure there's quite a bit of tension between the two sides in the locker room.

When you see me, how much love can be found in your eyes, Slick?

He is the best option. If we were out of it I'd want Lynch to start.

[Poet]

Tned, to better and more fairly answer your question: I tend to score very highly on reading comprehension and social interaction. I know what people mean, and how they say things. It's an actual skill and talent I have, and it is sometimes a pain in the ass.

It's hard for me to believe that someone who grinds out on the nitty gritty details and facts of issues isn't open to an actual conversation. I don't believe many people here would tell you that. I think they'd tell you that I might be over adversarial. However, it gets really old being called a troll and being anti-TS when I'm constantly pointing out his flaws and his successes. Even if doing so might not 'fall in line' with my overall view of him. Saying ' he should have seen that blitzer' and 'he's hanging in there and making a play' have been in this very same thread.

I have taken issues with a lot of the thinking about how we view him. And I'm not backing off of my stance that excusing everything as bad line play and inexperience is poor thinking because it is.

[Slick]

When you see me, how much love can be found in your eyes, Slick?

He is the best option. If we were out of it I'd want Lynch to start.

A ton of love big man. A shit ton.

[Simple Jaded]

I've seen you, I just haven't bothered lately.

He's still the best option at this point. I thought Lynch might do better because he is a much better athlete but I worry he might not be smart enough for the NFL game.

Denver's offense is painful to watch. The defense has to be frustrated at this point. I'm sure there's quite a bit of tension between the two sides in the locker room.

From what I hear the offense and defense players barely even talk anymore, it's getting toxic.

[spikerman]

From what I hear the offense and defense players barely even talk anymore, it's getting toxic.

Where are you hearing that? It wouldn't surprise me, I just haven't seen it anywhere.

[Simple Jaded]

What if your opponent could occasionally make a fist but you knew he was going to do it on the 1st and 3rd time and never varied from it?

If your opponent hasn't made a fist in five years it's because your opponent simply can't make a fist.

[Simple Jaded]

Where are you hearing that? It wouldn't surprise me, I just haven't seen it anywhere.

Wikileaks.

[Poet]

Watching the Packers and the Giants use slants only makes me that much more frustrated with Kubiak.

[Hawgdriver]

He played OK. But the offense he leads scored 10 points. That's unacceptable and it starts with Kubiak and Siemian.

And after it starts with them, it stops?

[Poet]

And after it starts with them, it stops?

You stopped my heart, once.

[MOtorboat]

And after it starts with them, it stops?

Well, of course not. But the quarterback is the leader, not the offensive line.

[Tned]

The irony in this statement is hilarious because it's coming from a guy who called people trolls and having anti-TS boners.


You're not more open minded than me. Nor do you have a better discussion than I do. You scold people for bashing TS, even if they're not bashing him. Every last thing that you think about me manifests in yourself. It's crazy how I'm apparently so awful and mean and yet you're the only one who takes umbrage with me. You have projection problem, sir. Especially when you take wide shots and people and lump them all together.


Freyaka and Jaded routinely hold different opinions than I. The same thing goes for Mo, Wave, Davii, etc. I'm just saying.


Tned, to better and more fairly answer your question: I tend to score very highly on reading comprehension and social interaction. I know what people mean, and how they say things. It's an actual skill and talent I have, and it is sometimes a pain in the ass.

It's hard for me to believe that someone who grinds out on the nitty gritty details and facts of issues isn't open to an actual conversation. I don't believe many people here would tell you that. I think they'd tell you that I might be over adversarial. However, it gets really old being called a troll and being anti-TS when I'm constantly pointing out his flaws and his successes. Even if doing so might not 'fall in line' with my overall view of him. Saying ' he should have seen that blitzer' and 'he's hanging in there and making a play' have been in this very same thread.

I have taken issues with a lot of the thinking about how we view him. And I'm not backing off of my stance that excusing everything as bad line play and inexperience is poor thinking because it is.

I'm glad you score well on standardized tests. That's a hallmark of your generation, and if you are better than most, I applaud you, In my generation, there wasn't as much emphasis on it, but I pretty much always scored in the 90th or 95th percentile. I might be able to dig up some old SRA or other standardized tests or the one ACT I took starting my Jr year in high school, or can we just say we've measured dicks, we both do well on standardized tests and move on to discussing topics? Whadda ya think?

Week in and week out, you go on and on about the TS crowd and fans of TS and the like. I'm not sure I know of a single person that is a "fan" of TS or think/claim he's a great QB. Some of us have pointed out he's young and young QBs make mistakes and are inconsistent, and have pointed out other problems, such as play calling and the line. For that, week in and week out, you don't discuss your opinion, but instead take shots at the "TS crowd," mock the "crowd" and tell all of "us" (I think in your mind I'm part of that "crowd") how wrong we are.

Leaving aside the fact that you criticize said line and said play calling, but since it's not "defending" TS, it's ok when you do it, and at the same time you can take digs at the "TS crowd" for stating the same things as you... Shit, that just hurt my head trying to figure out how to put that thought in a couple run on sentences. :confused: I bet I couldn't score in the 90+ percentile anymore, I must be getting addled.

Trolling is what MO and Ninja do each week, when they appear to almost take joy in the Broncos struggles because it gives them a chance to post things like, "But Siemian threw for a bunch of yards, man!" when nobody was talking about Siemian being great, but instead, week in and week out the little troll posts are thrown out there. It's not enough to just discuss the performance of the team and even discuss and disagree on how individual players are doing, but some of you have to carry the baggage and hurt feelings (I don't know how else to explain it) from week to week and seemingly take glee when the QB of our Denver Broncos makes a bad play or has a bad game, because it's an opportunity to take a shot at anyone that ever was perceived as "defending" him.

Come on King, you're a smart guy, you tell us that four, five a dozen times a week. You know very well what troll posts are vs. having an open and honest, discussion, even when two people have completely polar opposite "opinions." Opinions was quoted, because that's just what they are. What you post, is your opinion. Not a fact or facts, but your opinion. What I post is my opinion. Not a fact or facts, but my opinion.

Newsflash, this is a message board, where people come to post their opinions.

It honest to God is OK when different people have different opinions. It's not necessary for some of these guys to troll ten plus weeks of game day threads over differences of "opinion" that started in weeks one and two.

[Hawgdriver]

Ding ding ding

Broncos had 64 plays, Titans 65. How does this result in a gassed defense, exactly? No question the offense could do better, 10 pts is not a viable offense. I just don't understand the logic that an even split of offensive plays causes a gassed defense.

[Poet]

This is not going to be fruitful. I really have tried to be decent to you. I just don't think we're meant to be.

FWIW I don't like standardized tests. They can only test so much, and are only as good as those who construct them.

I don't think anyone is trolling. We have one troll. One. Lynch12. That's it.

I tell you I'm smart far more than four or five dozen times a week. Don't short me. It's hard to pat yourself on the back when you're in the midst of being great. What you see in me and find frustrating I see in you and find frustrating.

I will make a concerted effort to avoid you in these threads and on the board in general. I'm sure you will do the same...to avoid me...not yourself...that'd be hard.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Broncos had 64 plays, Titans 65. How does this result in a gassed defense, exactly? No question the offense could do better, 10 pts is not a viable offense. I just don't understand the logic that an even split of offensive plays causes a gassed defense.

Not being able to stop the run will has a defense, which they couldn't do in the first half.

[spikerman]

Broncos had 64 plays, Titans 65. How does this result in a gassed defense, exactly? No question the offense could do better, 10 pts is not a viable offense. I just don't understand the logic that an even split of offensive plays causes a gassed defense.

In the first half it wasn't nearly as even. You also have to look at the totality of the last 3 games. This futility has gone on for a while.

[NightTerror218]

Not being able to stop the run will has a defense, which they couldn't do in the first half.

Time of possession

[Poet]

Not being able to stop the run will has a defense, which they couldn't do in the first half.

The first half TOP was bad. In the second half our offense played like an actual offense and mitigated a lot of that damage.

[Tned]

This is not going to be fruitful. I really have tried to be decent to you. I just don't think we're meant to be.

FWIW I don't like standardized tests. They can only test so much, and are only as good as those who construct them.

I don't think anyone is trolling. We have one troll. One. Lynch12. That's it.

I tell you I'm smart far more than four or five dozen times a week. Don't short me. It's hard to pat yourself on the back when you're in the midst of being great. What you see in me and find frustrating I see in you and find frustrating.

I will make a concerted effort to avoid you in these threads and on the board in general. I'm sure you will do the same...to avoid me...not yourself...that'd be hard.

King, all I want to do is discuss football. I don't put people on ignore or ignore them, because I come here for discussion and debate.

I am more than willing to make a concerted effort to not make these threads about YOU AND ME, but if I see something you post that I want to comment on, whether in agreement, disagreement or to add a thought to it. I will. Just don't take it personal and feel free to respond with your opinion if you want, or not respond to me at all. Either way, we are good.

You don't have to work so hard to tear down other posters to make your point. Let's just all friggin discuss and debate the topics at hand.

This isn't rocket science, which is good, because based on the quality, and long term accuracy, of most of our opinions, our rockets would crash and burn a lot more than they reach orbit.

[MOtorboat]

The first half TOP was bad. In the second half our offense played like an actual offense and mitigated a lot of that damage.

The offense was OK in the second half. It wasn't good, by any stretch of the imagination. It has to improve or the season is over in three weeks.

[Hawgdriver]

Not being able to stop the run will has a defense, which they couldn't do in the first half.

Fair.

[Tned]

In the first half it wasn't nearly as even. You also have to look at the totality of the last 3 games. This futility has gone on for a while.

Two sides to that TOP coin. Like in this game, it wasn't about the defense being gassed, because they played far, far better in the second half. No question the offense sucked and had shitty drives, but the other side of that coin was that the defense couldn't stop the Titans and let them make multiple early, clock eating drives and converted multiple third and longs in those drives.

All of that said, this team is what leading the league in three and outs and among the worst, or worst, in 3rd down conversions. This has got to be near a historically bad offense. I wish there was an easier way to separate the offensive vs. defensive points. You can't necessarily take away all points from turnovers, because let's say there's a turnover and you have to march 75+ yards for a TD, then the offense probably deserves credit for those points, but when there is a turnover on the other teams 25 and you run three plays and then kick a FG, or if it's a pick six, or even if you get the ball on the 20 and score on that short field, that's not "really" offensive scoring.

I'm curious how bad this offense stacks up over say the last ten or twenty years. I've got to think it's among the worst.

[Hawgdriver]

Time of possession

Just so I have it straight, running plays gas a defense more than passing plays?

[Poet]

The offense was OK in the second half. It wasn't good, by any stretch of the imagination. It has to improve or the season is over in three weeks.

There are a handful of plays that just killed us.

[MOtorboat]

There are a handful of plays that just killed us.

What was the third down percentage after the first three quarters? I think there was more than five.

[Hawgdriver]

How did the Broncos only end up with 10 points when they demonstrated the ability to generate offense so well in the 4th quarter?

[MOtorboat]

How did the Broncos only end up with 10 points when they demonstrated the ability to generate offense so well in the 4th quarter?

An inability to move the ball on third down (and fourth, on one occasion).

[Poet]

How did the Broncos only end up with 10 points when they demonstrated the ability to generate offense so well in the 4th quarter?

Our playcalling for most of the game was really bad. We make very late game adjustments. We also seemed to get some better field position in the second half, too.

[Poet]

Just so I have it straight, running plays gas a defense more than passing plays?

Yes. Offensive lines are notorious for preferring to run block because they get to attack. When you're on the defensive line, in the 3-4, you're getting hit by multiple guys. Sweet, I'm the NT, and a guard and the center are beating on me. Even if I'm beating on them, if it's a passing play they're giving up ground and not attacking me, usually at least.

[Simple Jaded]

In the first half it wasn't nearly as even. You also have to look at the totality of the last 3 games. This futility has gone on for a while.

It was 10:00 to 8:00 for Titans before the defense gave up the 7:00 drive that started on their own 3 yard line. They only gave a FG, btw, so this is not blame the defense in in any way for this loss.

[Simple Jaded]

How did the Broncos only end up with 10 points when they demonstrated the ability to generate offense so well in the 4th quarter?

Dropped TD pass, a drive that stalled on the Titans 5 and a fumble to seal the loss.

[Poet]

Dropped TD pass, a drive that stalled on the Titans 5 and a fumble to seal the loss.

Note that the offensive line blocked fine in all of those scenarios.

[LawDog]

Two sides to that TOP coin. Like in this game, it wasn't about the defense being gassed, because they played far, far better in the second half. No question the offense sucked and had shitty drives, but the other side of that coin was that the defense couldn't stop the Titans and let them make multiple early, clock eating drives and converted multiple third and longs in those drives.

All of that said, this team is what leading the league in three and outs and among the worst, or worst, in 3rd down conversions. This has got to be near a historically bad offense. I wish there was an easier way to separate the offensive vs. defensive points. You can't necessarily take away all points from turnovers, because let's say there's a turnover and you have to march 75+ yards for a TD, then the offense probably deserves credit for those points, but when there is a turnover on the other teams 25 and you run three plays and then kick a FG, or if it's a pick six, or even if you get the ball on the 20 and score on that short field, that's not "really" offensive scoring.

I'm curious how bad this offense stacks up over say the last ten or twenty years. I've got to think it's among the worst.

The vast majority of the recent 3rd down futility, something like 1/19 at one point in the game, was due to the prior game where Lynch led them to at least 10 three and outs while expertly "game managing."

[Tned]

The vast majority of the recent 3rd down futility, something like 1/19 at one point in the game, was due to the prior game were Lynch led them to at least 10 three and outs while expertly "game managing."

Understood, but how did we start off today, something like punt, punt, fumble, punt, punt, punt, punt or something like that. Yes, there were some penalties and dropped passes, but there were a lot of third and longs, bad passes, etc.

No question, the two Lynch starts have been the true low points of the season for the Broncos offense, but the other 11 games have only been marginally better. There is no doubt that the offense performs better with Siemian that Lynch, it's not even close, but it's still a very bad offense.

[Hawgdriver]

An inability to move the ball on third down (and fourth, on one occasion).

That's a tautology! I mean...it's just baffling in a way.

[Hawgdriver]

Note that the offensive line blocked fine in all of those scenarios.

Yeah, that's the other thing. Besides the inability to create running lanes, the line wasn't as glaringly bad.

[Hawgdriver]

Dropped TD pass, a drive that stalled on the Titans 5 and a fumble to seal the loss.

Yeah, but those were drives. I mean before.

[MOtorboat]

That's a tautology! I mean...it's just baffling in a way.

Not really. I have a pretty well-thought out theory about it, but I will get attacked, harassed and labeled a troll for the theory, so I prefer to keep it to myself.

[Tned]

Not really. I have a pretty well-thought out theory about it, but I will get attacked, harassed and labeled a troll for the theory, so I prefer to keep it to myself.

:hug:

[Hawgdriver]

Yes. Offensive lines are notorious for preferring to run block because they get to attack. When you're on the defensive line, in the 3-4, you're getting hit by multiple guys. Sweet, I'm the NT, and a guard and the center are beating on me. Even if I'm beating on them, if it's a passing play they're giving up ground and not attacking me, usually at least.

No argument here on that. It seems it's when the D is gashed that you get a whupped D...when runners or blockers hit the second level and the entire D (outside of perimeter players) has to bust ass to get a tackle. And the symptom would be even worse D up the middle, which sounds like the story of the first half. Second half not so much..so if they were gassed, it wasn't lasting. I am surprised the Titans didn't run 90% run plays.

[LawDog]

Understood, but how did we start off today, something like punt, punt, fumble, punt, punt, punt, punt or something like that. Yes, there were some penalties and dropped passes, but there were a lot of third and longs, bad passes, etc.

No question, the two Lynch starts have been the true low points of the season for the Broncos offense, but the other 11 games have only been marginally better. There is no doubt that the offense performs better with Siemian that Lynch, it's not even close, but it's still a very bad offense.

3 and out, fumble, 3 and out, punt, punt, end of half. Two series ended after failing to convert 3rd and 1.

[Hawgdriver]

MO, what's your theory? Put down the critic mantle and throw down some creative content.

[MOtorboat]

MO, what's your theory? Put down the critic mantle and throw down some creative content.

Nah, I'm good.

[LawDog]

Nah, I'm good.

We may have dodged a bullet. Hard to tell for sure, but maybe...

[Hawgdriver]

Nah, I'm good.

f'in tease! :lol:

[dogfish]

Understood, but how did we start off today, something like punt, punt, fumble, punt, punt, punt, punt or something like that. Yes, there were some penalties and dropped passes, but there were a lot of third and longs, bad passes, etc.

No question, the two Lynch starts have been the true low points of the season for the Broncos offense, but the other 11 games have only been marginally better. There is no doubt that the offense performs better with Siemian that Lynch, it's not even close, but it's still a very bad offense.


3 and out, fumble, 3 and out, punt, punt, end of half. Two series ended after failing to convert 3rd and 1.

our offense is the #NoFirstDownZone


and unfortunately, lately our defense has been the #NoNeedToFlyZone

[MOtorboat]

f'in tease! :lol:

I've been harassed into submission.

Glass completely full only zone.

[Hawgdriver]

I've been harassed into submission.

Glass completely full only zone.

I get it.

[Tned]

I've been harassed into submission.

Glass completely full only zone.

:sigh:

[GEM]

How about Mo, King & T all put each other on ignore and stop posting at each other. For the sake of everyone else's enjoyment of the board. You'll never get along, you'll never agree and you're all making it unpleasant to read through pages of the bullshit. No one is innocent here, I've seen issues from all 3, so ignore the shit out of each other because I really don't have the time or the desire to mod pissing matches.

[Dapper Dan]

I had fun today.

[MOtorboat]

I had fun today.

Awesome deal, Dan. Glad you had fun.

[GEM]

I had fun today.

How about that fight?

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

How about Mo, King & T all put each other on ignore and stop posting at each other. For the sake of everyone else's enjoyment of the board. You'll never get along, you'll never agree and you're all making it unpleasant to read through pages of the bullshit. No one is innocent here, I've seen issues from all 3, so ignore the shit out of each other because I really don't have the time or the desire to mod pissing matches.

Gem did you see my impersonation of your mod style posting? It was epic.

[GEM]

Gem did you see my impersonation of your mod style posting? It was epic.

No, post a link, I'd love to see. I imagine it says. ..would you all s t f u! :lol:

[GEM]

I found it. :laugh: I thought I was reading one of my own posts! :lol:

[Poet]

I have it on good authority that GEM now hates me.

[dogfish]

No, post a link, I'd love to see. I imagine it says. ..would you all s t f u! :lol:

pretty much, yes. . .


and see dan, i told you a stabbing was unlikely. . .

[GEM]

I have it on good authority that GEM now hates me.

I hate you all equally! :lol:






Kidding ....I think. I still love you like a fat kid loves cake. Y'all just drive me crazy!

[Dapper Dan]

How about that fight?

Talib gets me so hype.

[Poet]

Talib gets me so hype.

Talib ain't no bitch.

[Valar Morghulis]

Agreed, this may not be sexy but it gives me a boner so hard a cat couldn't scratch it.

That IS sexy

[Tned]

Ok, a few really disturbing things jump out at me looking at the stats for this game.

Rushing:
Tenn 42 rushes for 180 yards -- Den 9 rushes for 18 yards

Den Rush/Pass
9 rushing plays / 51 passing plays (not counting Dixon's pass)

First Down stats
Ten 16 first downs: 11 rushing / 4 passing / 1 penalty
Den 19 first downs: 0 rushing / 19 passing

There was no balance at all in the Broncos play.