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WARHORSE
12-02-2016, 02:33 PM
Im actually fired up about this... If its going to be against anyone.....Jags are a good choice.

Freyaka
12-02-2016, 03:07 PM
Let's be honest here. I'm not very optimistic. He played pretty bad against the Falcons and the Jags have the #4 pass defense. This could be a really, really rough game. I hope he does well, but I'm setting my expectations super low because last we saw him, he clearly wasn't ready for the NFL.

King87
12-02-2016, 03:11 PM
He's going to struggle. Badly.

Tned
12-02-2016, 03:14 PM
Rotoworld isn't very optimistic.

"The Broncos have already said Siemian could play without practicing, but the situation is officially a concern. If Siemian doesn't practice Friday, it's hard to envision him suiting up against the Jaguars. Paxton Lynch would be a major downgrade for Emmanuel Sanders and Demaryius Thomas."

http://www.rotoworld.com/recent/nfl/10622/trevor-siemian

capt. Jack
12-02-2016, 03:15 PM
I hope the kid has a great game!!!!

PFL!!!!!

:)

Tned
12-02-2016, 03:16 PM
More recently, now that it's confirmed.

"The talented Jaguars pass defense has been tough on quarterbacks this season, allowing just one opposing signal caller to top 280 yards against them on the year. Lynch struggled against a weaker pass defense at home against Atlanta in Week 5, managing 223 yards on 35 attempts with one touchdown and one pick. He took six sacks behind a sub-par Broncos offensive line. Lynch will be a low-end two-quarterback-league play in Jacksonville."

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/11206/paxton-lynch

That said, while I'm not excited in terms of the Broncos chance to win, because he's almost certainly a downgrade in that department, like last time, I'm excited to see what Lynch can do and how much he's grown in the last six or so weeks.

Freyaka
12-02-2016, 03:29 PM
He's going to struggle. Badly.

I think even Trevor would have struggled. We have got to figure out how to run the ball.

King87
12-02-2016, 03:36 PM
I think even Trevor would have struggled. We have got to figure out how to run the ball.

Why you say even TS it makes me laugh. Like "Even Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Dan Marino, John Elway, or Drew Brees," would struggle makes sense. I know what you mean, it is just kind of funny.

Jax's offense isn't a world beater like it was last year, but they have a lot of weapons. If the defense doesn't fix itself up we are in for a long, long, long road.

Freyaka
12-02-2016, 04:00 PM
Why you say even TS it makes me laugh. Like "Even Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Dan Marino, John Elway, or Drew Brees," would struggle makes sense. I know what you mean, it is just kind of funny.

Jax's offense isn't a world beater like it was last year, but they have a lot of weapons. If the defense doesn't fix itself up we are in for a long, long, long road.

I'm not saying it in the manner you compared it to, I'm just saying that Trevor is thus far based on evidence available the better of the two QB's currently and even he would have struggled if healthy. I think no matter who the starter was, offensively this was going to be a difficult game. Our defense should end up feasting on the inept Jaguars offense.

Tned
12-02-2016, 04:32 PM
Why you say even TS it makes me laugh. Like "Even Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Dan Marino, John Elway, or Drew Brees," would struggle makes sense. I know what you mean, it is just kind of funny.

Jax's offense isn't a world beater like it was last year, but they have a lot of weapons. If the defense doesn't fix itself up we are in for a long, long, long road.

In the same regard, I found it funny a couple days ago to read multiple Rotoworld entries talking about first how the offense in general would suffer a major downgrade with Lynch, and then talking about a major downgrade to Thomas and Sanders.

I think it's a bit overblown. I still think a lot of his problems was knowing a week ahead of time that he was going to start and he spent the week thinking about how he needed to not screw up and putting pressure on himself. While he was inaccurate coming in in relief, he was MUCH better in that game and got better as the game went on.

So, I'm hopeful that with those first start jitters gone, he will perform much better in this second start.

BroncoJoe
12-02-2016, 04:35 PM
I hope Paxton does great.

Just please - ban Lynch12.

Freyaka
12-02-2016, 04:49 PM
In the same regard, I found it funny a couple days ago to read multiple Rotoworld entries talking about first how the offense in general would suffer a major downgrade with Lynch, and then talking about a major downgrade to Thomas and Sanders.

I think it's a bit overblown. I still think a lot of his problems was knowing a week ahead of time that he was going to start and he spent the week thinking about how he needed to not screw up and putting pressure on himself. While he was inaccurate coming in in relief, he was MUCH better in that game and got better as the game went on.

So, I'm hopeful that with those first start jitters gone, he will perform much better in this second start.

I actually take a different take on that. The reason he looked better in relief is because the Bucs had no tape on him, they hadn't prepared for him. Their entire week was spent expecting TS and they got Paxton instead.

The Falcons on the other hand new what was going to be on the field and were prepared for it.

BroncoJoe
12-02-2016, 04:55 PM
I actually take a different take on that. The reason he looked better in relief is because the Bucs had no tape on him, they hadn't prepared for him. Their entire week was spent expecting TS and they got Paxton instead.

The Falcons on the other hand new what was going to be on the field and were prepared for it.

I don't put too much weight in the "have tape on him" theory. He simply didn't play well against the Falcons.

I mean, teams had years of "tape" on great QB's like Elway, Manning and Brady. It didn't stop them from winning games.

Joel
12-02-2016, 05:37 PM
Putting ANY QB (or RB) behind this line is setting him up to fail. It'll be amusing to watch Lynchs fan club make all the same excuses for him that they dismissed out of hand for Siemian, but otherwise there's little to be psyched about here. Either we beat a team any legit playoff team MUST beat (in which case, big deal) or they beat us (in which case we'll get a week of analysts talking about how the reigning Champs are in a tailspin, only a SINGLE game above .500.)

HORSEPOWER 56
12-02-2016, 05:50 PM
One of the reasons Lynch struggled vs Atlanta is that the pass protection made Vic Beasley look like Von Miller. Unlike what we did vs KC and made it a little better in the second half, we didn't make any adjustments vs ATL. We still haven't figured out how to help out the right side of our Oline in pass protection.

I'm interested to see if Lynch has improved since then. I'm hopeful he has. I also think everyone is overrating how poorly Lynch played. He did a decent job in the intermediate passing game (something we don't have anymore - with Siemian it's either 5 yd passes or deep shots). I will watch with guarded enthusiasm.

NightTerror218
12-02-2016, 05:55 PM
Let's be honest here. I'm not very optimistic. He played pretty bad against the Falcons and the Jags have the #4 pass defense. This could be a really, really rough game. I hope he does well, but I'm setting my expectations super low because last we saw him, he clearly wasn't ready for the NFL.

Our OL and prob no OL in the league has allowed as much pressure as lynch got in that game. I will try to find the stat again on the high percentage but it was over 50% off drop backs he has pressure. I want to say 60% but i will not say for sure till i find that stat again. But siemian has seen at most upper 30%. That in mind.

Lynch did not help the OL either with scrambling and slow decision making. But it would be really hard for him to repeat that performance. Lynch has a quicker release but slower descision making for sure.

atwater27
12-02-2016, 06:36 PM
I cant wait to watch him play, but really hope he doesn't get killed.

Tned
12-02-2016, 06:48 PM
I actually take a different take on that. The reason he looked better in relief is because the Bucs had no tape on him, they hadn't prepared for him. Their entire week was spent expecting TS and they got Paxton instead.

The Falcons on the other hand new what was going to be on the field and were prepared for it.

The other team having tape doesn't give you happy feet and have you panic in the pocket. I think it was far less about what the other team game planned and far more about what Paxton didn't do well, which was made worse by having two backup tackles (not that the starters don't suck as well).

Tned
12-02-2016, 06:49 PM
One of the reasons Lynch struggled vs Atlanta is that the pass protection made Vic Beasley look like Von Miller. Unlike what we did vs KC and made it a little better in the second half, we didn't make any adjustments vs ATL. We still haven't figured out how to help out the right side of our Oline in pass protection.

I'm interested to see if Lynch has improved since then. I'm hopeful he has. I also think everyone is overrating how poorly Lynch played. He did a decent job in the intermediate passing game (something we don't have anymore - with Siemian it's either 5 yd passes or deep shots). I will watch with guarded enthusiasm.

As it is, Beasley, Jordan, and Houston are halfway to the HOF, just on their performances against the Broncos line this year.

Hawgdriver
12-02-2016, 06:50 PM
I hope the kid has a great game!!!!

PFL!!!!!

:)

Same!!

Tned
12-02-2016, 06:55 PM
Our OL and prob no OL in the league has allowed as much pressure as lynch got in that game. I will try to find the stat again on the high percentage but it was over 50% off drop backs he has pressure. I want to say 60% but i will not say for sure till i find that stat again. But siemian has seen at most upper 30%. That in mind.

Lynch did not help the OL either with scrambling and slow decision making. But it would be really hard for him to repeat that performance. Lynch has a quicker release but slower descision making for sure.

Here's the % of plays where QB was under pressure for Siemian's last three games and Lynch's one game.

54% Oak
45% NO
43% KC

36% ATL

NightTerror218
12-02-2016, 07:45 PM
Here's the % of plays where QB was under pressure for Siemian's last three games and Lynch's one game.

54% Oak
45% NO
43% KC

36% ATL

Where did you get thosr from?

Tned
12-02-2016, 09:26 PM
where did you get thosr from?

pff

NightTerror218
12-02-2016, 11:20 PM
pff

Was just curious the number i saw posted for the atl was much higher. But i would trust pff more.

Lynch12
12-02-2016, 11:27 PM
Was just curious the number i saw posted for the atl was much higher. But i would trust pff more.

The number was in the 60s. I don't know where he found those bogus numbers from. Pff is a joke by the way.

spikerman
12-02-2016, 11:31 PM
The number was in the 60s. I don't know where he found those bogus numbers from. Pff is a joke by the way.

Ok, seriously, is this Paxton's kid sister?

Davii
12-03-2016, 12:07 AM
Ok, seriously, is this Paxton's kid sister?

Yes.

Davii
12-03-2016, 12:07 AM
The number was in the 60s. I don't know where he found those bogus numbers from. Pff is a joke by the way.

Please prove it.

Tned
12-03-2016, 01:23 AM
Was just curious the number i saw posted for the atl was much higher. But i would trust pff more.


It was a rough game all-around for the rookie QB, who finished the day with a 38.1 passing grade while also coughing up a couple of fumbles. Lynch especially had his struggles when he was put under pressure. On 17 pressured dropbacks, Lynch was able to manage just six pass attempts, and he completed three of them for 40 yards and an interception go with a 31.9 QB Rating. Lynch found most of his success today when he was throwing quick passes in the short-to-intermediate range. When Lynch got the ball out of his hands in 2.5 seconds or less he completed 16 of 20 passes with a 112.3 QB rating, but when he held onto the ball for 2.6 seconds or more he was just 7-of-14 with a 39.0 QB rating.

47 drop backs, 17 pressures.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-falcons-broncos-grades/

Siemian's last three starts

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-kc-den-grades/
https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-den-no-grades/
https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-den-oak-grades/

Watchthemiddle
12-03-2016, 01:27 AM
Oh how I remember it...AFCCG and got beat. (Spend a 1st rounder on a Qb). Go 7-4, lose to the Chiefs and replace the starter for the 1st rounder. End the season 9-7 and miss the playoffs. The sub was made JUST BECAUSE. No injury, but for ego.

The Broncos weren't the same for years until PFM came to town. Do we really want this QB fight again? 7-4, WON THE SB, just got beat by the Chiefs, and peeps can't wait to see the #1 pick play.

Oh by the way, where is that pick from YEARS AGO NOW? Floundering in Chi town and about to hit the IR whIle being hated by the city, fans, and teammates

BroncoWave
12-03-2016, 02:05 AM
Oh how I remember it...AFCCG and got beat. (Spend a 1st rounder on a Qb). Go 7-4, lose to the Chiefs and replace the starter for the 1st rounder. End the season 9-7 and miss the playoffs. The sub was made JUST BECAUSE. No injury, but for ego.

The Broncos weren't the same for years until PFM came to town. Do we really want this QB fight again? 7-4, WON THE SB, just got beat by the Chiefs, and peeps can't wait to see the #1 pick play.

Oh by the way, where is that pick from YEARS AGO NOW? Floundering in Chi town and about to hit the IR whIle being hated by the city, fans, and teammates

Siemian is hurt, dude. It's nothing like kubes has much of a choice.

Joel
12-03-2016, 02:08 AM
Oh how I remember it...AFCCG and got beat. (Spend a 1st rounder on a Qb). Go 7-4, lose to the Chiefs and replace the starter for the 1st rounder. End the season 9-7 and miss the playoffs. The sub was made JUST BECAUSE. No injury, but for ego.

The Broncos weren't the same for years until PFM came to town. Do we really want this QB fight again? 7-4, WON THE SB, just got beat by the Chiefs, and peeps can't wait to see the #1 pick play.

Oh by the way, where is that pick from YEARS AGO NOW? Floundering in Chi town and about to hit the IR whIle being hated by the city, fans, and teammates
Not the same; despite several similarities, there are also several key differences. Siemian wasn't last years QB, and Plummer wasn't a 2nd year 7th rounder whose ONLY snap before 2006 was a kneel down. We knew what we had (and didn't) with Plummer, but Siemian's far less of a known quantity. There's no way of knowing what Cutler would've become if both he and Kubiak had stayed in Denver; Lovie Smith's hardly known for developing QBs (Grossman and Orton, anyone?)

Be careful of the false dichotomy, too: Just because Plummer (or Siemian) isn't the answer doesn't prove Cutler (or Lynch) is, nor vice versa. If it were as simple as either/or, Cleveland wouldn't have gone through a dozen QBs in as many years.

If Plummer and Cutler offer a lesson from which we can benefit, it's that NEITHER had quality NFL coaching to develop them, nor quality NFL protection and run support giving them time to learn how to scan the field, read defenses, go through progressions and generally run an offense. Plummer got happy feet because awful Cardinals teams gave him no pocket; Cutler forces passes because the Bears gave him the same problem. By the time Plummer got to Shanny and Kubes it was too late; he was a finished product who only got frustrated by their disciplined offense. Flip side, Cutler only had a few years with them before going to a defensive team that treated its offense as an afterthought.

So don't make Lynch run before he can walk, or you'll end up with another injury-prone QB scared of his own shadow, throwing desperate passes even on the rare occasions he DOES have protection, because he never knows when it'll break down, only that it WILL break down, and usually sooner than later.

Valar Morghulis
12-03-2016, 02:10 AM
Siemian is hurt, dude. It's nothing like kubes has much of a choice.

Plummer and Siemian are not in the same situation

King87
12-03-2016, 02:36 AM
Trying to draw comparisons to the Plummer/Culter scenario and this scenario is absurd. For one, Plummer was a veteran and TS is a young upstart. Secondly, and more importantly, TS lost his job due to injury.

Kubiak was been committed to TS as much as any HC can be committed to a guy like TS.

dogfish
12-03-2016, 02:52 AM
I think even Trevor would have struggled. We have got to figure out how to run the ball.


Why you say even TS it makes me laugh. Like "Even Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Dan Marino, John Elway, or Drew Brees," would struggle makes sense. I know what you mean, it is just kind of funny.


step back off freyaka, f***er. . .

"even trevor" vs "trevor would have struggled also". . . potato, po-tahto, either gawd damn way we need to run the ball. . . and maybe even pass protect a little bit also. . .






I hope Paxton does great.

Just please - ban Lynch12.

+5,000 to both of these sentiments!

:salute: :defense:

dogfish
12-03-2016, 02:56 AM
I'm just waiting for motorboat to chime in. Good night now!!! Mic drop!!!

wait, wut?

come on now, bud. . . you haven't posted here in like five years, and that pathetic and totally random attempt at a drive-by troll was the best you could muster?


do better!

:emancipator:

Watchthemiddle
12-03-2016, 03:04 AM
Ok, maybe no more Herules IPA's for me

:mtn_man.....what

dogfish
12-03-2016, 03:15 AM
Ok, maybe no more Herules IPA's for me

:mtn_man.....what

alright, we'll let you go this time. . .



the hercules is a damn fine brew. . . #ColoradoUbesAlles

mtn is still around and kickin', but he hasn't posted here in quite some time. . .

Nomad
12-03-2016, 09:41 AM
He'll lead the BRONCOS to a win.

Packers/Texans game here. #suckstobemewithnodirectv :lol:

Lynch12
12-03-2016, 09:54 AM
Oh how I remember it...AFCCG and got beat. (Spend a 1st rounder on a Qb). Go 7-4, lose to the Chiefs and replace the starter for the 1st rounder. End the season 9-7 and miss the playoffs. The sub was made JUST BECAUSE. No injury, but for ego.

The Broncos weren't the same for years until PFM came to town. Do we really want this QB fight again? 7-4, WON THE SB, just got beat by the Chiefs, and peeps can't wait to see the #1 pick play.

Oh by the way, where is that pick from YEARS AGO NOW? Floundering in Chi town and about to hit the IR whIle being hated by the city, fans, and teammates

This post is complete non sense, nobody has time for fairy stuff youI are speaking. Cuter is no lynch, two complete different humans.

spikerman
12-03-2016, 10:06 AM
He'll lead the BRONCOS to a win.

Packers/Texans game here. #suckstobemewithnodirectv :lol:

Barbarian.

Nomad
12-03-2016, 10:11 AM
Barbarian.

Any QB the BRONCOS put out there should win this game.

spikerman
12-03-2016, 10:15 AM
Any QB the BRONCOS put out there should win this game.

I meant because you don't have the ticket. What are we - living in the 50s? :D

Nomad
12-03-2016, 10:23 AM
I meant because you don't have the ticket. What are we - living in the 50s? :D

Oh....I did until we moved here. #ihavenoballswifegetsherway :D

Lynch12
12-03-2016, 10:50 AM
Oh....I did until we moved here. #ihavenoballswifegetsherway :D

Sad.

capt. Jack
12-03-2016, 10:51 AM
I truly hope our First Round pick can actually play the QB position as he is supposed to play it.
No excuses, First round picks should be able to start at some point? I think he will do good.

BroncoWave
12-03-2016, 10:54 AM
Sad.

He says from his mother's basement.

Lynch12
12-03-2016, 10:59 AM
He says from his mother's basement.

Said from my 4 story house, with a front and backyard. You got the wrong oneI if you think imma loser like many of you. Sorry my friend, and I run my household. Unlike some people.

Lynch12
12-03-2016, 11:01 AM
I like this captain jack guy, very good guy there, love the Broncos love he has and how he knows the key to the Broncos becoming a dynasty starting next year depends on the young buck being great.

spikerman
12-03-2016, 11:06 AM
Said from my 4 story house, with a front and backyard. You got the wrong oneI if you think imma loser like many of you. Sorry my friend, and I run my household. Unlike some people.

Bwahahahaha.. Were you, by any chance, a Chippendales dancer at some point?

BroncoJoe
12-03-2016, 11:07 AM
4 story home. LOL.

capt. Jack
12-03-2016, 11:10 AM
i like this captain jack guy, very good guy there, love the broncos love he has and how he knows the key to the broncos becoming a dynasty starting next year depends on the young buck being great.

Cheers!!
Lets go Paxton, lets go Broncos!!!!

Positive attitude! Penetrate the darkness, Embrace the positive energy!

:)

Nomad
12-03-2016, 11:15 AM
Sad.

Nah. I love my wife, and after being married 20+ years, you learn to pick your battles.

Nomad
12-03-2016, 11:16 AM
Cheers!!
Lets go Paxton, lets go Broncos!!!!

Positive attitude! Penetrate the darkness, Embrace the positive energy!

:)

Yep! Get the W.

BroncoWave
12-03-2016, 11:24 AM
Bwahahahaha.. Were you, by any chance, a Chippendales dancer at some point?

With a a huge Italian dick.

Tned
12-03-2016, 11:25 AM
The number was in the 60s. I don't know where he found those bogus numbers from. Pff is a joke by the way.

Post a link that backs up your 60% number. Don't accuse me of posting bogus numbers unless you have facts to back it up.

Northman
12-03-2016, 11:36 AM
Said from my 4 story house, with a front and backyard. You got the wrong oneI if you think imma loser like many of you. Sorry my friend, and I run my household. Unlike some people.

Do you bang a lot of chicks to?

Tned
12-03-2016, 11:40 AM
Do you bang a lot of chicks to?

Yea, but that's only because the roosters fight back.

Lynch12
12-03-2016, 11:43 AM
Post a link that backs up your 60% number. Don't accuse me of posting bogus numbers unless you have facts to back it up.

It is.bogus, the numbers was posted in this forum back after it hapend to prove one of you Trevor groupies wrong about how Trevor is getting lressured way less than Paxton did. I'm not looking anything up. Type in 60 in your forum search bar and see if you can find it.

Lynch12
12-03-2016, 11:46 AM
Nah. I love my wife, and after being married 20+ years, you learn to pick your battles.

I love my wife and she knows her place, she also knows I make the decisions, ALL the decisions. It's a mans job. But you carry on being you and ill be me, even though you clearly stated she runs you, therefore you aren't even in a battle.

Davii
12-03-2016, 11:46 AM
It is.bogus, the numbers was posted in this forum back after it hapend to prove one of you Trevor groupies wrong about how Trevor is getting lressured way less than Paxton did. I'm not looking anything up. Type in 60 in your forum search bar and see if you can find it.

I'll translate for those that don't speak "teen can't type": I'm dead wrong, so therefore cannot prove anything. I will challenge you instead even though you have already posted numbers from a reputable source.

Lynch12
12-03-2016, 11:47 AM
Do you bang a lot of chicks to?

I despise whoremen and whorewoman.

Lynch12
12-03-2016, 11:48 AM
I'll translate for those that don't speak "teen can't type": I'm full of shit and wrong, so therefore cannot prove anything. I will challenge you instead even though you have already posted numbers from a reputable source.

Is that you in the picture?

spikerman
12-03-2016, 11:52 AM
I love my wife and she knows her place, she also knows I make the decisions, ALL the decisions. It's a mans job. But you carry on being you and ill be me, even though you clearly stated she runs you, therefore you aren't even in a battle.

Wow.. just wow..... This is the post of the year here.

Davii
12-03-2016, 11:52 AM
Is that you in the picture?

Nope, that's my Dad.

capt. Jack
12-03-2016, 12:02 PM
If Melania Trump reads these boards, you guys might get in trouble for Cyber bullying!

(Joking)
:)

spikerman
12-03-2016, 12:06 PM
If Melania Trump reads these boards, you guys might get in trouble for Cyber bullying!

(Joking)
:)
Lynch won't let his wife read these boards.

Tned
12-03-2016, 12:46 PM
It is.bogus, the numbers was posted in this forum back after it hapend to prove one of you Trevor groupies wrong about how Trevor is getting lressured way less than Paxton did. I'm not looking anything up. Type in 60 in your forum search bar and see if you can find it.

Hey troll, you just accused me of posting a bogus number. Back it up, or shut the **** up. Post a source for the 60% number or friggin apologize. We are all getting sick of your juinior high antics.

Valar Morghulis
12-03-2016, 12:48 PM
Lynch won't let his wife read these boards.

I will show her later

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
12-03-2016, 01:38 PM
The whole "man doesn't let his wife have a voice" sounds a lot like yashablabalot.

Lynch12
12-03-2016, 01:45 PM
Nope, that's my Dad.

Cool looking guy, love the hat.

Hawgdriver
12-03-2016, 01:46 PM
Sad.

Why are you sad, little pookins? Did a mean little boy steal your fluffy?

Lynch12
12-03-2016, 01:47 PM
The whole "man doesn't let his wife have a voice" sounds a lot like yashablabalot.

She has plenty of voice, what the hell are you talking about? Just because I make the final call means she don't have a voice? America has grown soft.

spikerman
12-03-2016, 01:59 PM
She has plenty of voice, what the hell are you talking about? Just because I make the final call means she don't have a voice? America has grown soft.

Next thing you know she'll be wanting the right to vote, amiright?

Lynch12
12-03-2016, 02:00 PM
Here's the % of plays where QB was under pressure for Siemian's last three games and Lynch's one game.

54% Oak
45% NO
43% KC

36% ATL

Lynch was pressured on 46% of his dropbacks, sacked 6 times and hit 14 times. You are wrong! Denvers o line was at it's worst that game.
Offensive Line Woes

While neither quarterback has played well the past two weeks, it would be completely unfair to pin both of the losses on that position. The reality of the situation is that the entire offense has been abysmal, especially along the offensive line. In week five vs. the Falcons, the line was still missing starting RT Donald Stephenson and starting TE Virgil Green. Paxton Lynch was pressured on 46% of his drop backs. He was sacked six times in total. A couple of the sacks were due to the ball not coming out of his hand, but the majority of them the rush got to Lynch in 2.75 seconds or less; an awful performance for the line to say the least
https://www.google.com/amp/predominantlyorange.com/2016/10/20/broncos-vs-texans-preview/amp/?client=ms-android-metropcs-us

Oops look like poor tned is the one who needs to shut the **** up and stop making up stats.

Lynch12
12-03-2016, 02:01 PM
The damn rush was on Paxton in 2 seconds every drop back! You have been proven wrong now you can get lost.

Lynch12
12-03-2016, 02:03 PM
Next thing you know she'll be wanting the right to vote, amiright?

None of us actually vote, popular vote does not determineI whose going to win the election, or did you think otherwise? America is a republic, not a democracy. Or maybe you don't know the difference in that either?

spikerman
12-03-2016, 02:03 PM
None of us actually vote, popular vote does not determineI whose going to win the election, or did you think otherwise? America is a republic, not a democracy. Or maybe you don't know the difference in that either?

You're precious. Please don't ever change.

Northman
12-03-2016, 02:05 PM
I love my wife and she knows her place, she also knows I make the decisions, ALL the decisions. It's a mans job. But you carry on being you and ill be me, even though you clearly stated she runs you, therefore you aren't even in a battle.


Do you drag her by the hair to? Club her over the head? :lol:

Lynch12
12-03-2016, 02:05 PM
You're precious. Please don't ever change.

Exactly the response I expected when somebody is clueless.

Hawgdriver
12-03-2016, 02:05 PM
America has grown soft.

Take your crusade for sharia law elsewhere, yash.

Lynch12
12-03-2016, 02:06 PM
Do you drag her by the hair to? Club her over the head? :lol:

You think shit like that that happens to women is funny? You are a joke.

spikerman
12-03-2016, 02:06 PM
Exactly the response I expected when somebody is clueless.

Irony is ironic. But that just hurts, man.

Northman
12-03-2016, 02:08 PM
You think shit like that that happens to women is funny? You are a joke.

Im not the one who is holding my woman back and telling her to know her place. The only joke here my friend is you.

Lynch12
12-03-2016, 02:09 PM
Anyway Im going to get some rest so I can get to work tonightI, yet another 12 to 12. Ahhhh :(

Lynch12
12-03-2016, 02:10 PM
Im not the one who is holding my woman back and telling her to know her place. The only joke here my friend is you.

No you are just the typical todays weak male. My women blossoms.

Hawgdriver
12-03-2016, 02:11 PM
Anyway Im going to get some rest so I can get to work tonightI, yet another 12 to 12. Ahhhh :(

Do that. You will need to be well rested for after the Lynch game. We have some expectations.

Tned
12-03-2016, 02:12 PM
Lynch was pressured on 46% of his dropbacks, sacked 6 times and hit 14 times. You are wrong! Denvers o line was at it's worst that game.
Offensive Line Woes

While neither quarterback has played well the past two weeks, it would be completely unfair to pin both of the losses on that position. The reality of the situation is that the entire offense has been abysmal, especially along the offensive line. In week five vs. the Falcons, the line was still missing starting RT Donald Stephenson and starting TE Virgil Green. Paxton Lynch was pressured on 46% of his drop backs. He was sacked six times in total. A couple of the sacks were due to the ball not coming out of his hand, but the majority of them the rush got to Lynch in 2.75 seconds or less; an awful performance for the line to say the least
https://www.google.com/amp/predominantlyorange.com/2016/10/20/broncos-vs-texans-preview/amp/?client=ms-android-metropcs-us

Oops look like poor tned is the one who needs to shut the **** up and stop making up stats.

Ok, first, 46% is not 60%. Then again, we've all seen you clearly need a remedial math course.

As to your source, it's written by a Broncos fan on a Broncos blog, which does not trump PFF which is quoted by major news sites, not to mention players like Chris Harris.

Damn dude, you truly are clueless. I hope to God you aren't really an adult with a wife, because that means you have reached your ceiling and that is very scary. Much better to think you are the preteen your posting quality would indicate.

Davii
12-03-2016, 02:12 PM
Lynch was pressured on 46% of his dropbacks, sacked 6 times and hit 14 times. You are wrong! Denvers o line was at it's worst that game.
Offensive Line Woes

While neither quarterback has played well the past two weeks, it would be completely unfair to pin both of the losses on that position. The reality of the situation is that the entire offense has been abysmal, especially along the offensive line. In week five vs. the Falcons, the line was still missing starting RT Donald Stephenson and starting TE Virgil Green. Paxton Lynch was pressured on 46% of his drop backs. He was sacked six times in total. A couple of the sacks were due to the ball not coming out of his hand, but the majority of them the rush got to Lynch in 2.75 seconds or less; an awful performance for the line to say the least
https://www.google.com/amp/predominantlyorange.com/2016/10/20/broncos-vs-texans-preview/amp/?client=ms-android-metropcs-us

Oops look like poor tned is the one who needs to shut the **** up and stop making up stats.

That's in the 60s? Hahahahahaha.

Northman
12-03-2016, 02:15 PM
No you are just the typical todays weak male. My women blossoms.

Bwhahahahahahahahaha

Davii
12-03-2016, 02:18 PM
Bwhahahahahahahahaha

His women. All of them. Some things never change. Yash is one of those things.

Valar Morghulis
12-03-2016, 02:19 PM
I wonder if blossoms is a euphemism for menstruates

Lynch12
12-03-2016, 02:25 PM
Get back to paxton, and tnex dont try and save face now dude. You made up a 30% statI. Smh. Liar.

Davii
12-03-2016, 02:26 PM
Get back to paxton, and tnex dont try and save face now dude. You made up a 30% statI. Smh. Liar.

No. You made up a stat in the 60s. SMH. Lying troll.

spikerman
12-03-2016, 02:35 PM
I'm glad yash isn't very smart because he might learn from his mistakes and cease providing us with hours of entertainment.

Davii
12-03-2016, 02:38 PM
I'm glad yash isn't very smart because he might learn from his mistakes and cease providing us with hours of entertainment.

I'm telling you. I don't know what we'd do without trolls like Yash around for fun.

turftoad
12-03-2016, 02:42 PM
Get back to paxton, and tnex dont try and save face now dude. You made up a 30% statI. Smh. Liar.

Ya know. When we drafted Lynch I was super excited because I think he can be our QB of the future. I'm excited to watch him play tomorrow.
You, however, make it hard to even root for him.
I don't think you are even a Broncos fan. Now, knock it off and let the rest of us enjoy watching him without you're nose up his bum plz.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
12-03-2016, 02:42 PM
Anyway Im going to get some rest so I can get to work tonightI, yet another 12 to 12. Ahhhh :(

#thestruggleisreal

#halomarathon

Tned
12-03-2016, 02:55 PM
Get back to paxton, and tnex dont try and save face now dude. You made up a 30% statI. Smh. Liar.

http://www.broncosforums.com/downloads/greaterdickwad.jpg

Tned
12-03-2016, 02:59 PM
Get back to paxton, and tnex dont try and save face now dude. You made up a 30% statI. Smh. Liar.

https://ic.tweakimg.net/camo/4ff1753b172e0bb898f0aacf05234594d647fcd5/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mathfunny.com%2Fimages%2Fmat hpics-mathjoke-mathmeme-pic-joke-math-meme-haha-funny-humor-pun-lol-calculator.jpg

MasterShake
12-03-2016, 04:00 PM
Looking forward to Paxton playing and doing better, not looking forward to uninformed Bronco or Lynch fanboys blinded by latent pirate homosexuality if he has a decent to good game calling for him to start the rest of the year. If he has a great game that is fantastic, but right now Siemian is the better QB. That is a peer-reviewed verified fact and I won't even entertain a discussion on this because I am right according to the biased sources I read.

Am I... am I internetting right?

spikerman
12-03-2016, 04:02 PM
Looking forward to Paxton playing and doing better, not looking forward to uninformed Bronco or Lynch fanboys blinded by latent pirate homosexuality if he has a decent to good game calling for him to start the rest of the year. If he has a great game that is fantastic, but right now Siemian is the better QB. That is a peer-reviewed verified fact and I won't even entertain a discussion on this because I am right according to the biased sources I read.

Am I... am I internetting right?

That depends; does your wife dare to question your authority?

MasterShake
12-03-2016, 04:07 PM
That depends; does your wife dare to question your authority?

Not when I am on the fourth story of my house. That is my floor.

slim
12-03-2016, 04:07 PM
4 story home. LOL.

On a $50K salary!

pnbronco
12-03-2016, 04:09 PM
Nah. I love my wife, and after being married 20+ years, you learn to pick your battles.

You bet you do....after 30+ years how important is it really starts to make sense. The gift from picking your battles is getting to enjoy live with you grown children and grandchildren and the one person that always had my back.

So enough....come on Paxton....keep it simple, manage the game and O please don't get him killed. Come on D get your groove back and ST please don't do silly that ends up loosing the game.

BTW ignore is such a wonderful tool on this board....;)

Joel
12-03-2016, 04:22 PM
His women. All of them. Some things never change. Yash is one of those things.
Binders full of stories. ;)

Nomad
12-03-2016, 04:27 PM
WoW! Sorry for derailing the thread. :lol: I didn't think anyone would take me that serious.

Tned
12-03-2016, 05:28 PM
BTW ignore is such a wonderful tool on this board....;)

What fun is that? :smack:

spikerman
12-03-2016, 05:31 PM
I never put anybody on ignore.

Jaded
12-03-2016, 05:54 PM
4 story home. LOL.

The "Fourth story" is probably a deep pit in his basement where he keeps his victims.

spikerman
12-03-2016, 06:00 PM
The "Fourth story" is probably a deep pit in his basement where he keeps his victims.

And his wench.

atwater27
12-03-2016, 06:04 PM
This thread is ******* unreadable

Nomad
12-03-2016, 06:11 PM
This thread is ******* unreadable

How do you think Lynch will do tomorrow? I haven't watched the Jaguars, but I hear their pass rush is pretty good.

I believe he's gonna have a good game, and BRONCOS defense is gonna help out to where BRONCOS should win easily.

atwater27
12-03-2016, 06:15 PM
I just hope he has been studious and devoted learning the playbook, the offense and understanding what he has to do and hopefully he understands he will be pressured a ton. I also don't want him to get killed behind our very questionable O-line. If we can't beat the Jacksonvilles of the NFL, we dont deserve to get to the playoffs.

Nomad
12-03-2016, 06:16 PM
You bet you do....after 30+ years how important is it really starts to make sense. The gift from picking your battles is getting to enjoy live with you grown children and grandchildren and the one person that always had my back.

So enough....come on Paxton....keep it simple, manage the game and O please don't get him killed. Come on D get your groove back and ST please don't do silly that ends up loosing the game.

BTW ignore is such a wonderful tool on this board....;)

Always wise words :).

Valar Morghulis
12-03-2016, 06:19 PM
Looking forward to Paxton playing and doing better, not looking forward to uninformed Bronco or Lynch fanboys blinded by latent pirate homosexuality if he has a decent to good game calling for him to start the rest of the year. If he has a great game that is fantastic, but right now Siemian is the better QB. That is a peer-reviewed verified fact and I won't even entertain a discussion on this because I am right according to the biased sources I read. Am I... am I internetting right?

The pirate reference, check
The dig at fellow poster, check
Cognitive dissonance, check

You nailed it

Valar Morghulis
12-03-2016, 06:19 PM
I never put anybody on ignore.

Who said that

Nomad
12-03-2016, 06:20 PM
I just hope he has been studious and devoted learning the playbook, the offense and understanding what he has to do and hopefully he understands he will be pressured a ton. I also don't want him to get killed behind our very questionable O-line. If we can't beat the Jacksonvilles of the NFL, we dont deserve to get to the playoffs.

Paxton will do good. Del Rio isn't coaching the Jaguars, so BRONCOS will have an easy victory. :)

spikerman
12-03-2016, 06:22 PM
Who said that

Ummmm me?

Joel
12-03-2016, 06:47 PM
I never put anybody on ignore.
Word. Ignore is a crutch for lack of self-control: If you don't want to read something, just don't read it. And if you're UNABLE to read it without a Pavlovian "need" to reply, well, that's not really the internets fault (just the internets problem.)

pnbronco
12-03-2016, 06:56 PM
Word. Ignore is a crutch for lack of self-control: If you don't want to read something, just don't read it. And if you're UNABLE to read it without a Pavlovian "need" to reply, well, that's not really the internets fault (just the internets problem.)

No it's not.....I use it because when I've driven 1000 miles in about 18 hours and just want to see a few posts ignore cleans up what I needed it to and I can enjoy the posts that I want to read.... I can still skip but it helps make a thread cleaner for me.

pnbronco
12-03-2016, 06:58 PM
I didn't get to see him in the last game so I'm hoping for a good game.

He's not going to be ready to be full time but it would be nice to have someone fill in when we need it and hopefully see a what could be in the future.

Nomad
12-03-2016, 07:03 PM
I didn't get to see him in the last game so I'm hoping for a good game.

He's not going to be ready to be full time but it would be nice to have someone fill in when we need it and hopefully see a what could be in the future.

I believe Paxton will do a great job. I also believe he knows his place as a rookie, and won't pull a Brock.

Tned
12-03-2016, 07:45 PM
I also believe he knows his place as a rookie, and won't pull a Brock.

What does that mean?

Jaded
12-03-2016, 08:39 PM
What does that mean?

I think he's referring to BO getting butthurt for being "benched" in favor of the starter.

Northman
12-03-2016, 08:48 PM
Its no problem to ignore people and doesnt represent self control or anything else. That is just ******* nonsense im sorry. What one person might find entertaining another will find tedious and annoying. Especially when said individual or individuals dominate a thread for about 5-10 pages with back and forth insults, etc. While i have yet to put L12 on ignore it will probably happen sooner or later because he simply has no value on this forum for me as a reader. PN doesnt get into pissing contests with people so for her to put someone on ignore only means she doesnt want to read the nonsense and stupidity. Nothing wrong with that at all.

spikerman
12-03-2016, 08:55 PM
Its no problem to ignore people and doesnt represent self control or anything else. That is just ******* nonsense im sorry. What one person might find entertaining another will find tedious and annoying. Especially when said individual or individuals dominate a thread for about 5-10 pages with back and forth insults, etc. While i have yet to put L12 on ignore it will probably happen sooner or later because he simply has no value on this forum for me as a reader. PN doesnt get into pissing contests with people so for her to put someone on ignore only means she doesnt want to read the nonsense and stupidity. Nothing wrong with that at all.
I don't blame people for putting others on ignore. I simply pointed out that I don't do it. People who disagree with me (besides being wrong) are usually entertaining. As far as L12, don't bother; based on his posts today I suspect he won't be around much longer.

Northman
12-03-2016, 08:59 PM
I don't blame people for putting others on ignore. I simply pointed out that I don't do it. People who disagree with me (besides being wrong) are usually entertaining. As far as L12, don't bother; based on his posts today I suspect he won't be around much longer.

My issue wasnt with your post but Joel's which came off asinine and condescending to PN.

spikerman
12-03-2016, 09:01 PM
My issue wasnt with your post but Joel's which came off asinine and condescending to PN.
Ahhh, gotcha, bud.

pnbronco
12-03-2016, 09:31 PM
My issue wasnt with your post but Joel's which came off asinine and condescending to PN.

thank you North....that's very sweet.... It's no big deal but I appreciate you sticking up for me. You guys understand I drive 30,000 miles a year and work my tail off at my Trade Shows.....so when I have time I just want to enjoy posts about my favorite team. Only so many hours in the day and I want to enjoy it with my favorite posters....nothing wrong with that.

even more OT....I'm home so I can enjoy my favorite earrings....couldn't take them with me too easy to loose things on the road....:D OT off back to Paxton....GO Broncos!!!!

Joel
12-03-2016, 11:42 PM
My issue wasnt with your post but Joel's which came off asinine and condescending to PN.
I don't recall singling out anyone, but if folks have a use for Ignore, fine, I stand corrected. It takes maybe half a second to scroll a whole page though, and user names and avatars make it really easy to skip anyone without bothering to read their posts (I'm pretty sure lots of people do it all the time, even when replying to those very same posts.)

King87
12-04-2016, 12:26 AM
Pirate Life we in the building.

#donteyepatchthesnatch
#whatdoesthatmean
#youneedanadult
#styledon
#styledON
#StyleDon

Davii
12-04-2016, 12:28 AM
Pirate Life we in the building.

#donteyepatchthesnatch
#whatdoesthatmean
#youneedanadult
#styledon
#styledON
#StyleDon

#StyLeDon?

King87
12-04-2016, 12:30 AM
#StyLeDon?

Ask Val about him.

pnbronco
12-04-2016, 12:36 AM
Pirate Life we in the building.

#donteyepatchthesnatch
#whatdoesthatmean
#youneedanadult
#styledon
#styledON
#StyleDon

:D...:D

Lynch12
12-04-2016, 01:16 AM
I don't recall singling out anyone, but if folks have a use for Ignore, fine, I stand corrected. It takes maybe half a second to scroll a whole page though, and user names and avatars make it really easy to skip anyone without bothering to read their posts (I'm pretty sure lots of people do it all the time, even when replying to those very same posts.)

I dont usually agree with you but you are 100% correct, using the ignore feature on a forum is lame, its not like someone is calling your phone to death, if yiu cant have any self control to skip pass a post then you have issues.

King87
12-04-2016, 01:35 AM
Sometimes you have to put someone on ignore just to make it easier to ignore them overall.

Valar Morghulis
12-04-2016, 02:35 AM
Ummmm me?

I pulled a spiker style joke. Indicating you were on my ignore.

Fail

Tned
12-04-2016, 09:36 AM
I dont usually agree with you but you are 100% correct, using the ignore feature on a forum is lame, its not like someone is calling your phone to death, if yiu cant have any self control to skip pass a post then you have issues.

You ignored the calls to back up your 60% claim. Even the sub 50% pressure number was from a Broncos fan blog.

Give us a credible source or break down every drop back yourself and gives a pass attempt by attempt analysis.

spikerman
12-04-2016, 09:54 AM
I pulled a spiker style joke. Indicating you were on my ignore.

Fail
You don't want to be in my company brother. Save yourself from the pain. Nobody gets my humor!

Tned
12-04-2016, 09:58 AM
You don't want to be in my company brother. Save yourself from the pain. Nobody gets my humor!

Was that supposed to funny? :confused:

spikerman
12-04-2016, 09:59 AM
Was that supposed to funny? :confused:

Ass. :D

Tned
12-04-2016, 10:03 AM
Ass. :D

Was that supposed to be funny? :confused:

I'm working on the calibration of the Tned humor recognition algorithm.

spikerman
12-04-2016, 10:05 AM
Was that supposed to be funny? :confused:

I'm working on the calibration of the Tned humor recognition algorithm.

You shouldn't use data from me. I tend to throw a wrench into comedy algorithms. I'm usually only funny to me.

Tned
12-04-2016, 10:14 AM
You shouldn't use data from me. I tend to throw a wrench into comedy algorithms. I'm usually only funny to me.

Ahhh, in that case, your data needs to not feed the Tned humor recognition algorithm, but instead the Tned humor algorithm, as I hear quite often from why wife that I'm not as funny as I think. Of course she is wrong, I am very funny, I just have such refined humor that mere humor mortals don't always understand or recognize my humor.

spikerman
12-04-2016, 10:21 AM
Ahhh, in that case, your data needs to not feed the Tned humor recognition algorithm, but instead the Tned humor algorithm, as I hear quite often from why wife that I'm not as funny as I think. Of course she is wrong, I am very funny, I just have such refined humor that mere humor mortals don't always understand or recognize my humor.
I get it, but you said mere mortals so it doesn't apply to me.

Tned
12-04-2016, 10:24 AM
I get it, but you said mere mortals so it doesn't apply to me.

Mere humor mortals, but it's true.

95% of what comes out of my mouth/fingers is sarcastic (the other 5% I'm either too drunk or tired and lose the sarcasm mojo), but it's only recognized 28.3% of the time based on my data analysis.

NightTerror218
12-05-2016, 12:32 AM
If lynch wants to be starter he needs to beat siemian out for the job. He will not be given that.

Next offseason i expect him to be working out with our WRs to work on timing and stuff. Because he wont be starting this season unles siemian goes down.

Broncoknight30
12-05-2016, 06:33 AM
If lynch wants to be starter he needs to beat siemian out for the job. He will not be given that.

Next offseason i expect him to be working out with our WRs to work on timing and stuff. Because he wont be starting this season unles siemian goes down.

Yes, this is true. Simply not impressed with Lynch as of now. Siemian had his best game against the Chiefs imo. It is kind of obvious that Siemians big problem is durability. Lynch is awfully inaccurate. Fairly simple passes too. How many throws did he sail over the heads of WRs? Simple 5 yard down and outs. A lot.

There are going to be some major decisions in the off season. Bottom line is a great OL makes average QBs good and good QBs great.

Freyaka
12-05-2016, 08:51 AM
Lynch has a long way to go...He looks like Tim Tebow V2 out there... and not in a good way....

tripp
12-05-2016, 11:54 AM
Yes, this is true. Simply not impressed with Lynch as of now. Siemian had his best game against the Chiefs imo. It is kind of obvious that Siemians big problem is durability. Lynch is awfully inaccurate. Fairly simple passes too. How many throws did he sail over the heads of WRs? Simple 5 yard down and outs. A lot.

There are going to be some major decisions in the off season. Bottom line is a great OL makes average QBs good and good QBs great.


I'm not a QB coach or know much about QB mechanics but, I'm a little curious as it stands right now, what are Lynch's intangibles that makes him a far more worthy prospect than Siemian?

I agree it's a little concerning regarding Siemian's durability, however, I'm not sure how long even Tom Brady could stand being behind center on our O-line. The one thing that's stopping us from being a 13-3 team again is our O-line. If Siemian had a second or two longer to go through his reads, and if our run game wasn't getting mauled before they get to the line of scrimmage, we'd be just like the Cowboys, but better. Because our defense is in a different world from theirs.

Freyaka
12-05-2016, 12:17 PM
I'm not a QB coach or know much about QB mechanics but, I'm a little curious as it stands right now, what are Lynch's intangibles that makes him a far more worthy prospect than Siemian?

I agree it's a little concerning regarding Siemian's durability, however, I'm not sure how long even Tom Brady could stand being behind center on our O-line. The one thing that's stopping us from being a 13-3 team again is our O-line. If Siemian had a second or two longer to go through his reads, and if our run game wasn't getting mauled before they get to the line of scrimmage, we'd be just like the Cowboys, but better. Because our defense is in a different world from theirs.

You'd have to ask Lynch12 that...he drolls on and on about how much more talent Lynch has than Trevor... As for me, I don't see anything about Paxton that screams future starter aside from where we drafted him. Draft position is not itself an indicator of anything. QB's fail and succeed every year and where they were drafted has no bearing over that.

Hawgdriver
12-05-2016, 01:02 PM
Coming out of college, he was highly regarded for physical measurables--height, weight, zip on throws, speed/athleticism. At his pro day, he demonstrated excellent accuracy, hitting 70/75 targets with impressive arm strength in windy/noisy conditions, missing others perhaps as a result of distractions on field. Concerns about not taking snaps under center. Considered even-keeled and focused on job, carries himself well. Objectively, he the 3d best quarterback in his draft class, rated as a late 1st/early 2d type prospect.

PFF said he was good at quick release, accuracy, touch, athleticism, zip, track record of constant improvement as the game got bigger. Said concerns were accuracy w/ hardest velocity, failure to see underneath zone defenders, back shoulder ball placement, ugly throws when rushed/pressured, and 'lulls where his accuracy is all over the place.'

Bottom line: great prospect who has continued to develop since high school, shows a skillset viable to the position.

Hawgdriver
12-05-2016, 01:09 PM
Paxton has physical attributes that a Trevor Siemian will never match, but Trevor perhaps has a better knack for the decisions required of the position at this early stage in their careers, and his abilities are roughly equal to the task. While Trevor's skillset/ability might be lower than Lynch's, Siemian has been able to master the mental aspects of the position with greater facility than Paxton so far. I don't think we will know who is the better QB until 2018. Paxton might be 'developing' some of his fundamentals right now, which can cause erratic performance if he's conflicted between old mechanics and new.

I'm excited for both, only wish they had a better offensive line. The lack of run game and pass protection make it hard to truly grade either of them with great accuracy, and Lynch's continued progression in development to the NFL game makes it next to impossible to really give the guy a fair grade.

Tned
12-05-2016, 01:19 PM
Paxton has physical attributes that a Trevor Siemian will never match, but Trevor perhaps has a better knack for the decisions required of the position at this early stage in their careers, and his abilities are roughly equal to the task. While Trevor's skillset/ability might be lower than Lynch's, Siemian has been able to master the mental aspects of the position with greater facility than Paxton so far. I don't think we will know who is the better QB until 2018. Paxton might be 'developing' some of his fundamentals right now, which can cause erratic performance if he's conflicted between old mechanics and new.

I'm excited for both, only wish they had a better offensive line. The lack of run game and pass protection make it hard to truly grade either of them with great accuracy, and Lynch's continued progression in development to the NFL game makes it next to impossible to really give the guy a fair grade.

It's extremely hard to accurately judge Lynch. Nobody but some of us fans (I became a little guilty of it during training camp) thought he would be NFL ready coming out of college. He's a project, with the physical tools to be special, but as all athletes in all sports, it's not uncommon for them to never move from "potential" to performer.

At this stage, you've got a kid who is having to learn how to call plays in the huddle and work on some really basic fundamentals like that. It means that things that should be second nature to a QB, or things he's having to actively focus on not ******* up, which means he can't just focus on making plays, which is where you want him to be.

Personally, while his accuracy was just as bad or worse, I think he was better in the pocket, trying to buy time, make plays with his feet (unsuccessful, but good decision as to when to run). So, I saw improvement from Atlanta to Jax from him.

PFF doesn't yet have the pressure/no pressure breakdown, but regardless, he didn't grade out very good at all.


Quarterback grade: Paxton Lynch, 38.0

Lynch leaves plays on the field but defense picks up the win

This proved to be a frustrating display by Paxton Lynch in his second career start with inaccuracy plaguing his performance. Lynch missed on seven of his 12 incomplete passes and perhaps most frustratingly left plays on the field by putting too much air under deep balls, under-throwing them and allowing coverage to recover. Twice Lynch’s receivers had separation down the field but lofted throws allowed Jags’ CB Jalen Ramsey to recover and break up the pass. Lynch went zero of five on passes aimed 20 yards or more downfield and has only one completion on deep passes through two starts of his rookie season.


https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-den-jax-grades-defense-picks-up-win-for-broncos/

Lynch12
12-05-2016, 02:54 PM
Paxton has physical attributes that a Trevor Siemian will never match, but Trevor perhaps has a better knack for the decisions required of the position at this early stage in their careers, and his abilities are roughly equal to the task. While Trevor's skillset/ability might be lower than Lynch's, Siemian has been able to master the mental aspects of the position with greater facility than Paxton so far. I don't think we will know who is the better QB until 2018. Paxton might be 'developing' some of his fundamentals right now, which can cause erratic performance if he's conflicted between old mechanics and new.

I'm excited for both, only wish they had a better offensive line. The lack of run game and pass protection make it hard to truly grade either of them with great accuracy, and Lynch's continued progression in development to the NFL game makes it next to impossible to really give the guy a fair grade.

Master the mental aspect? Yeah okay. If he's mastered anything id hate to see when Tom brady masters something, since he can get first downs on the regular unlike Trevor.

Freyaka
12-05-2016, 02:55 PM
Master the mental aspect? Yeah okay. If he's mastered anything id hate to see when Tom brady masters something, since he can get first downs on the regular unlike Trevor.

Can someone translate this into English?

Canmore
12-05-2016, 03:16 PM
Can someone translate this into English?

Why?

Tned
12-05-2016, 03:21 PM
Can someone translate this into English?

His boyfriend played like shit, so now if he throws out something unintelligible and includes a knock on Trevor, we will all forget how bad his boyfriend played.

dogfish
12-05-2016, 03:27 PM
Master the mental aspect? Yeah okay. If he's mastered anything id hate to see when Tom brady masters something, since he can get first downs on the regular unlike Trevor.

:hahaha:

this is hilarious coming from captain three-and-out's biggest fanboi. . .

Timmy!
12-05-2016, 03:28 PM
Can someone translate this into English?

I think he was pointing out that Lynch was an amazing 1-14 or something on 3rd down conversions yesterday.

Tned
12-05-2016, 03:35 PM
I think he was pointing out that Lynch was an amazing 1-14 or something on 3rd down conversions yesterday.

Well, in his defense.... Ok, I got nothing.

Hawgdriver
12-05-2016, 03:41 PM
Master the mental aspect? Yeah okay. If he's mastered anything id hate to see when Tom brady masters something, since he can get first downs on the regular unlike Trevor.

Dude, you might need a fifth floor on your cult compound. All you seem to see from the first 4 are Lynch's grapes.

PS, next time use Google Translate, select brotard as your language.

Lynch12
12-05-2016, 04:03 PM
Lynch will show great progress next week, just sit back and enjoy. I believe Trevor foot is still screwed and likely to be screwed for a while. The kid Paxton will ride the ship until the foot heels, if it heels.

What exactly is his injury? And I hope it didn't happen when he did the fainting goat?

Freyaka
12-05-2016, 04:07 PM
Lynch will show great progress next week, just sit back and enjoy. I believe Trevor foot is still screwed and likely to be screwed for a while. The kid Paxton will ride the ship until the foot heels, if it heels.

What exactly is his injury? And I hope it didn't happen when he did the fainting goat?

How can he show progress on the bench? Reports are Trevor got the boot off and is looking healthy. uh oh...dreams crushed...

Freyaka
12-05-2016, 04:20 PM
:hahaha:

this is hilarious coming from captain three-and-out's biggest fanboi. . .

Wasn't it like our lowest number of first downs in a game since Tim Tebow's first start? It was pathetic!

Tned
12-05-2016, 04:27 PM
Wasn't it like our lowest number of first downs in a game since Tim Tebow's first start? It was pathetic!

Which means that Tebow's first start was better than Lynch's second start. We have a horse race here, boys.... Yee Haw!!

Tned
12-05-2016, 06:36 PM
Ok, Cecil posted some stats for Lynch's second start. Some good and not so good.

Not surprising, and what I thought watching it, his accuracy was even worse than last time by a big margin.

In his half of relief, his off target percentage was 21.7% (6th worst week 4) and in his first start 20.6% were off target (6th worst week 5), both numbers courtesy @cecillammey

This week, the not so good (or downright bad) was that he was second worst in the league with 33.3% of his passes off target.

RT ‏@CecilLammey Paxton Lynch 2nd in Week 13 in off-target percentage (33.3 percent), only Tyrod Taylor higher Sunday (38.2 percent) #Broncos @1043TheFan

The good (once again, he was under pressure only in the mid 30's, like in the Atlanta game, so again, the line held up reasonably well for him -- compared to some other games) is that he got the ball out very quickly, which is nice and consistant. In week 5, he was also 7th fastest in the league at 2.35. The quick release helps behind that line:

RT ‏@CecilLammey Paxton Lynch was blitzed 32.1 percent of his dropbacks (6th-highest) in Wk 13. felt pressure 35.7 percent of the time. #Broncos @1043TheFan
RT ‏@CecilLammey Paxton Lynch had 7th-fastest time-before-pass average in Wk13 (2.37 seconds) #Broncos @1043TheFan

The mixed bag -- good in that he attempted long balls, bad in that he missed on his five attempts over 15 yards.

RT ‏@CecilLammey with so many deep shots (that didn't connect), no surprise #Broncos Paxton Lynch 3rd in air-yards-per-attempt (12.0 yds) Wk13 @1043TheFan

Jaded
12-05-2016, 08:42 PM
Lynch is already better than Tebow (it's not even close) however, watch Elway dump Lynch like a bad habit and show once again that QB's this bad only get so many chances.

Davii
12-05-2016, 08:55 PM
Lynch will show great progress next week, just sit back and enjoy. I believe Trevor foot is still screwed and likely to be screwed for a while. The kid Paxton will ride the ship until the foot heels, if it heels.

What exactly is his injury? And I hope it didn't happen when he did the fainting goat?

*Trevor's
*heals
*heals

That one is free. You're welcome.

Freyaka
12-05-2016, 09:48 PM
*Trevor's
*heals
*heals

That one is free. You're welcome.

You got to talk at his level for him to get it...there weren't enough insults...

HORSEPOWER 56
12-06-2016, 12:18 AM
The mixed bag -- good in that he attempted long balls, bad in that he missed on his five attempts over 15 yards.

RT ‏@CecilLammey with so many deep shots (that didn't connect), no surprise #Broncos Paxton Lynch 3rd in air-yards-per-attempt (12.0 yds) Wk13 @1043TheFan

That can't be true. He didn't miss on all his passes over 15 yds. The one DT went down and scooped to put us in FG range before the half was 18 yds.

Hawgdriver
12-06-2016, 12:39 AM
His accuracy ('ball placement' in Kubes words, I like) was a head scratcher. I'm not going to read too much into it. When he's officially 'rolled out' as a product, then I'll bite. He was thrown in b/c of Siemian's injury. Siemian needs to stay healthy...

MOtorboat
12-06-2016, 12:44 AM
His accuracy ('ball placement' in Kubes words, I like) was a head scratcher. I'm not going to read too much into it. When he's officially 'rolled out' as a product, then I'll bite. He was thrown in b/c of Siemian's injury. Siemian needs to stay healthy...

That's really the key. The kid gets backup reps and then is thrown in there because the starter can't stay healthy. I don't like what I see, but bringing out the pitchforks when he's a replacement for two games and struggles is pretty much ridiculous.

King87
12-06-2016, 12:57 AM
That's really the key. The kid gets backup reps and then is thrown in there because the starter can't stay healthy. I don't like what I see, but bringing out the pitchforks when he's a replacement for two games and struggles is pretty much ridiculous.

Especially when the starter, as raw as he is, is much more 'experienced' than PL.

MOtorboat
12-06-2016, 01:01 AM
Especially when the starter, as raw as he is, is much more 'experienced' than PL.

Since the Siemian people want to use passer rating:
Siemian's first two starts: 74.4, 1 TD, 3 INT
Lynch's first two starts: 73.2, 1 TD, 1 INT

Siemian had a month of first-team reps for his two starts. Lynch had four days in his first start and 8 days in his second.

BroncoWave
12-06-2016, 01:03 AM
Since the Siemian people want to use passer rating:
Siemian's first two starts: 74.4, 1 TD, 3 INT
Lynch's first two starts: 73.2, 1 TD, 1 INT

Siemian had a month of first-team reps for his two starts. Lynch had four days in his first start and 8 days in his second.

Jesus Mo, have a little fun in your life and troll Lynch12 with us!

MOtorboat
12-06-2016, 01:05 AM
Jesus Mo, have a little fun in your life and troll Lynch12 with us!

When I stop getting trolled, maybe. Like I said last night, and was flamed and trolled for, slightly better.

Hawgdriver
12-06-2016, 01:36 AM
Not flamed. Many/most have a different perception, and they shared that. Slightly seems to understate the disparity to them. Count me in 'them'.

King87
12-06-2016, 01:37 AM
When I stop getting trolled, maybe. Like I said last night, and was flamed and trolled for, slightly better.

No one loves us anymore.

Hawgdriver
12-06-2016, 01:41 AM
No one loves us anymore.

I have a kind of ex-nemesis, spurned and bitter love for you. Good enough?

King87
12-06-2016, 01:45 AM
I have a kind of ex-nemesis, spurned and bitter love for you. Good enough?

I'll take what I can get.

Joel
12-06-2016, 04:46 AM
When I stop getting trolled, maybe. Like I said last night, and was flamed and trolled for, slightly better.
Flame trolling: Have it your way™ (because "wake up with Von King" would just be disturbing.)

Tned
12-06-2016, 06:49 AM
That can't be true. He didn't miss on all his passes over 15 yds. The one DT went down and scooped to put us in FG range before the half was 18 yds.

No, Mo, I'm not just trashing Lynch. Use your words young man.

HP, I'm going by Lammey's passing chart, which is based on air yards beyond the LOS. Since DT went down immediately, there was no YAC on that, so I'm not sure. Maybe his chart wasn't quite accurate. I'll see if I can post that here.

Tned
12-06-2016, 06:55 AM
His accuracy ('ball placement' in Kubes words, I like) was a head scratcher. I'm not going to read too much into it. When he's officially 'rolled out' as a product, then I'll bite. He was thrown in b/c of Siemian's injury. Siemian needs to stay healthy...

My guess, and only a guess like everything we put forth on a message board is that the head scratcher is two fold.

1. He was inaccurate in his first game and a half, but he was much more inaccurate this week. So, from that standpoint, there was regression in accuracy. More inaccurate, while looking far more poised in the pocket, which you would have expected to lead to better, not worse, accuracy results.

2. As Kubiak reported, they had been running extra long practices to get Lynch, and some other rookies, more up to speed, and he had at least the week of first team reps, plus first team reps over the bye week when Siemian was healing up, and likely quite a bit more mixed in.

Tned
12-06-2016, 07:00 AM
Here's Lammey's beyond the LOS chart for Lynch's second start:

https://twitter.com/CecilLammey/status/805860495915962368

Tned
12-06-2016, 07:15 AM
That can't be true. He didn't miss on all his passes over 15 yds. The one DT went down and scooped to put us in FG range before the half was 18 yds.

I just looked at game pass, and it was 18 yards (LOS 32, caught on 14 -- amazing, because I've been told that DT NEVER catches low balls resulting from bad throws -- go figure).

I see what I did. I looked at Lammey's chart quickly, and was thinking the lines were every 10 yards, like a real football field and didn't pay close attention to the numbers. Since the one completion was halfway through, I said greater than 15, but the lines are every five, so that 18 yard completion is what I thought was a 15 yard completion at quick glance last night.

spikerman
12-06-2016, 07:28 AM
I just looked at game pass, and it was 18 yards (LOS 32, caught on 14 -- amazing, because I've been told that DT NEVER catches low balls resulting from bad throws -- go figure).

I see what I did. I looked at Lammey's chart quickly, and was thinking the lines were every 10 yards, like a real football field and didn't pay close attention to the numbers. Since the one completion was halfway through, I said greater than 15, but the lines are every five, so that 18 yard completion is what I thought was a 15 yard completion at quick glance last night.
Ummmm the lines are always every five yards. :)

Freyaka
12-06-2016, 07:35 AM
Jesus Mo, have a little fun in your life and troll Lynch12 with us!

No joke... Some people just don't get it do they?

Tned
12-06-2016, 07:36 AM
Ummmm the lines are always every five yards. :)

Hey, I was tired. Falling asleep on the couch, then went to bed, got two work texts that woke me up and back up at five to get on the horn to the UK. I'ma justa human, man...

Looking at the chart this morning, I got no idea how I thought the red football between the 15 and 20 yard line was 15 yards, other than as I said, when I quickly glanced at it, I must have thought they were 10 yards apart and didn't pay attention to the numbers. Mostly just a sleep deprived brain fart.

NightTerror218
12-06-2016, 10:06 AM
I just looked at game pass, and it was 18 yards (LOS 32, caught on 14 -- amazing, because I've been told that DT NEVER catches low balls resulting from bad throws -- go figure).

I see what I did. I looked at Lammey's chart quickly, and was thinking the lines were every 10 yards, like a real football field and didn't pay close attention to the numbers. Since the one completion was halfway through, I said greater than 15, but the lines are every five, so that 18 yard completion is what I thought was a 15 yard completion at quick glance last night.

Lmao. Stop being a troll. You are referring to the low pass siemian did anfew weeks ago at the ankle of dt. Lynch threw his further in front of dt allowing him to dive for it. Which i will argue is never his strength. And that one off his finger tips you will argue until blue he should catch.

Lynch12
12-06-2016, 10:16 AM
Jesus Mo, have a little fun in your life and troll Lynch12 with us!

Id rather him speak the truth,

And I appreciate you admitting that im the one being ******* trolled consistently.
Thanks mods.

Freyaka
12-06-2016, 10:29 AM
Id rather him speak the truth,

And I appreciate you admitting that im the one being ******* trolled consistently.
Thanks mods.

We wouldn't have to troll you if you weren't so unbelievably insufferable... You blatantly disregard reality to paint your player in the best light possible and are a bit of a dick while doing so....

You should really be glad the mods are so nice towards you. If they weren't you'd be banned. You wouldn't make it 5 minutes over on the official forums with your blatantly troll-like behavior.

You keep bashing the mods, but lets be real freaking honest, you should be thanking them because if you were posting on any other message board you would be doing so under your 3rd or 4th username because you'd have been banned multiple times over.

So you have two options...Become a more reasonable poster and quit your blind fanboism, or just deal with our distaste towards you and quit your moaning.....

dogfish
12-06-2016, 11:43 AM
We wouldn't have to troll you if you weren't so unbelievably insufferable... You blatantly disregard reality to paint your player in the best light possible and are a bit of a dick while doing so....

You should really be glad the mods are so nice towards you. If they weren't you'd be banned. You wouldn't make it 5 minutes over on the official forums with your blatantly troll-like behavior.

You keep bashing the mods, but lets be real freaking honest, you should be thanking them because if you were posting on any other message board you would be doing so under your 3rd or 4th username because you'd have been banned multiple times over.

So you have two options...Become a more reasonable poster and quit your blind fanboism, or just deal with our distaste towards you and quit your moaning.....
lol. . . he HAS been permabanned like four times here. . . I have zero idea why the douchebag has been allowed to crawl back in again. . .

Freyaka
12-06-2016, 11:54 AM
lol. . . he HAS been permabanned like four times here. . . I have zero idea why the douchebag has been allowed to crawl back in again. . .

Because the Mods don't hate him as bad as he likes to paint it in his "woe is me" posting against tned.

Hawgdriver
12-06-2016, 12:25 PM
My guess, and only a guess like everything we put forth on a message board is that the head scratcher is two fold.

1. He was inaccurate in his first game and a half, but he was much more inaccurate this week. So, from that standpoint, there was regression in accuracy. More inaccurate, while looking far more poised in the pocket, which you would have expected to lead to better, not worse, accuracy results.

2. As Kubiak reported, they had been running extra long practices to get Lynch, and some other rookies, more up to speed, and he had at least the week of first team reps, plus first team reps over the bye week when Siemian was healing up, and likely quite a bit more mixed in.

My guess is *Paxton* has been concentrating on developing fundamentals--footwork, shifting in pocket, throwing mechanics--and is still absorbing offensive concepts and system. He's half-baked right now, he spends brain cycles on things that confound the ability to focus solely on the ball placement task. He'll probably need several months or longer before the automatic things are automatic.

But who really knows. I guess he'll get another chance this weekend to improve.

NightTerror218
12-06-2016, 12:38 PM
My guess, and only a guess like everything we put forth on a message board is that the head scratcher is two fold.

1. He was inaccurate in his first game and a half, but he was much more inaccurate this week. So, from that standpoint, there was regression in accuracy. More inaccurate, while looking far more poised in the pocket, which you would have expected to lead to better, not worse, accuracy results.

2. As Kubiak reported, they had been running extra long practices to get Lynch, and some other rookies, more up to speed, and he had at least the week of first team reps, plus first team reps over the bye week when Siemian was healing up, and likely quite a bit more mixed in.

Wish all young players only need a week of extra long practices to get up to speed.

Tned
12-06-2016, 01:35 PM
Lmao. Stop being a troll. You are referring to the low pass siemian did anfew weeks ago at the ankle of dt. Lynch threw his further in front of dt allowing him to dive for it. Which i will argue is never his strength. And that one off his finger tips you will argue until blue he should catch.

If I inadvertently pointed out a double standard, it was entirely by accident, I assure you... ;)

Tned
12-06-2016, 01:38 PM
My guess is Trevor has been concentrating on developing fundamentals--footwork, shifting in pocket, throwing mechanics--and is still absorbing offensive concepts and system. He's half-baked right now, he spends brain cycles on things that confound the ability to focus solely on the ball placement task. He'll probably need several months or longer before the automatic things are automatic.

But who really knows. I guess he'll get another chance this weekend to improve.

I assume you meant Paxton.


Wish all young players only need a week of extra long practices to get up to speed.

Oh, ok, so now young players take time to develop. Nice to know. I just assumed they were supposed to be great from start one based on what I've read on here.

Hawgdriver
12-06-2016, 01:42 PM
I assume you meant Paxton.

My editor is on break. Down to single man ops here.

Tned
12-06-2016, 01:51 PM
My editor is on break. Down to single man ops here.

I assumed he was on strike, but same result.

NightTerror218
12-06-2016, 07:02 PM
If I inadvertently pointed out a double standard, it was entirely by accident, I assure you... ;)

There is no coincidence :D

Tned
12-06-2016, 07:14 PM
There is no coincidence :D

I've never been good at the meanings of certain words. Is it a coincidence that DT can actually catch low balls??? ;)

NightTerror218
12-06-2016, 07:56 PM
I've never been good at the meanings of certain words. Is it a coincidence that DT can actually catch low balls??? ;)

Only when thrown by a lesser QB

NightTerror218
12-06-2016, 07:56 PM
Mike Klis

After 3 gms, Lynch's 79.2 rtg better thru first 3 of Winston Ryan Luck Carr Brady Bridgewater Flacco Foles Palmer Stafford E. Manning Smith

NightTerror218
12-06-2016, 07:57 PM
I hate those stats. Always misleading, hiw many crappy QB had good starts and became horrible?

Tned
12-06-2016, 08:28 PM
Mike Klis

After 3 gms, Lynch's 79.2 rtg better thru first 3 of Winston Ryan Luck Carr Brady Bridgewater Flacco Foles Palmer Stafford E. Manning Smith

Would it be safe to say that Siemian's 95.9 rating through his first three games would also be better than all those QBs?

Freyaka
12-06-2016, 09:24 PM
Mike Klis

After 3 gms, Lynch's 79.2 rtg better thru first 3 of Winston Ryan Luck Carr Brady Bridgewater Flacco Foles Palmer Stafford E. Manning Smith

QB Rating is such a hollow meaningless stat....

Jaded
12-06-2016, 11:24 PM
QB Rating is such a hollow meaningless stat....

You're dangerously close to heading down the Lynch12 path with Lynch.

JPPT1974
12-07-2016, 12:03 AM
He won his first game but still he is a rookie. May need another year to be groomed. Though does show promise.

Freyaka
12-07-2016, 12:10 AM
You're dangerously close to heading down the Lynch12 path with Lynch.

By pointing out how useless the QB rating is as a stat (regardless of the QB?) It's seriously one of the most overrated stats that doesn't serve as an indicator of anything...

Jaded
12-07-2016, 12:54 AM
By pointing out how useless the QB rating is as a stat (regardless of the QB?) It's seriously one of the most overrated stats that doesn't serve as an indicator of anything...

Ok, you should team with Joel to come up with something better and write a blog about it.

Jaded
12-07-2016, 01:06 AM
This whole Siemian v Lynch thing is kinda stupid and getting more stupid by the day. Russell Wilson, Andrew Luck and Dak Prescott come along and we forget that Siemian/Lynch are barely old enough to drink and have 12 starts between the two.

Hawgdriver
12-07-2016, 02:14 AM
This whole Siemian v Lynch thing is kinda stupid and getting more stupid by the day.

I agree, man. But can we talk about it some more? At least until the Titans expose our DT and ILB situation with Marshall out or ailing? I'm, like .. fresh out of topics. Out of fresh topics. Something.

Jaded
12-07-2016, 02:18 AM
I agree, man. But can we talk about it some more? At least until the Titans expose our DT and ILB situation with Marshall out or ailing? I'm, like .. fresh out of topics. Out of fresh topics. Something.

We could talk about the OL?

Hawgdriver
12-07-2016, 02:24 AM
We could talk about the OL?

I'm fascinated by the topic. Could use new thread. The OL is as mysterious as a . . as a ... well, it's some mysterious shit to me. I like to hear from dudes that know their business about the inner workings of offensive line play..and why Denver's is near the worst in the league, when so many other areas are at least competently average. I mean, without the historical trainwreck narrative...more of a skills and tools narrative--how they are being abused, rather than the personnel failures leading up to the current distaster.

dogfish
12-07-2016, 03:01 AM
I agree, man. But can we talk about it some more? At least until the Titans expose our DT and ILB situation with Marshall out or ailing?

see, that doesn't sound all that fun to talk about, though. . . it could hurt!


seriously, though. . . wynn was hurt last week, and kilgo's gone. . . i read that we worked out some dudes earlier-- mostly friggin' receivers, of course. . . so with no roster move made at this point, i guess they must be counting on wynn to play. . . at least, i sure hope we aren't going out there with four DLs. . .

even assuming that billy is ready to go, the roster construction's a bit odd this year. . . two long snappers, norwood is still on the roster, only one nosetackle, etc. . . i hope marlon brown really is a beast next year. . . in the meantime, i also hope our DLs don't get worn the F out against that physical running game, with precious little depth to rotate. . .

Broncoknight30
12-07-2016, 03:16 AM
This whole Siemian v Lynch thing is kinda stupid and getting more stupid by the day. Russell Wilson, Andrew Luck and Dak Prescott come along and we forget that Siemian/Lynch are barely old enough to drink and have 12 starts between the two.

Dak Prescott does not have that many starts. The thing that is fair to judge imo is who was passed up for Lynch. Heck, can also judge who was passed up for Osweiler.

Elway took Osweiler over Russell Wilson in 2012 and kirk cousins for that matter. He also took Lynch over Prescott.

Is that unfair? Maybe, hindsight is always 20/20. However, that is an issue imo.

Northman
12-07-2016, 04:40 AM
Dak Prescott does not have that many starts. The thing that is fair to judge imo is who was passed up for Lynch. Heck, can also judge who was passed up for Osweiler.

Elway took Osweiler over Russell Wilson in 2012 and kirk cousins for that matter. He also took Lynch over Prescott.

Is that unfair? Maybe, hindsight is always 20/20. However, that is an issue imo.


To be fair to Elway and the organization though both Osweiler and Lynch were rated higher than the other QB's you mentioned. Obviously the draft is a crapshoot anyway but considering what Denver was looking for at the time they drafted those guys it wasnt far fetched to say they took the guys who were projected be the better players going into the draft. At one point this offseason Dak was being looked at pretty hard by Denver but when they had the opportunity to draft Lynch who was projected higher they took it. Oz has clearly showed that the limited time he had in college has played a factor into his maturation process as a pro but the book isnt quite done on him yet as he still has just but one full season under his belt in terms of actual starts.

But i would also guess that had Siemian or Lynch played behind the Cowboys Oline they may have faired much better than they have this year in Denver because of the Oline woes. Right now Prescott is benefiting a lot from a great Oline and a most likely the best RB in the NFL right now. Just like our QB's are benefiting from having a good defense (much like Wilson his rookie year) to which you can still win games with great defense. Cousins is really the only one out of the bunch that you mentioned that actually carries his team offensively but strangely enough he was not the first QB chosen in that draft by the Redskins as RGIII was actually drafted (or wasted of a draft pick depending on your view) in the first round. Sometimes when it comes to how good or great a QB will be is the situation to which they arrive in. I think ultimately Denver is a great enough organization that either Siemian or Lynch will have success here but there are some other parts of the team that needs to be addressed and corrected not to mention its going to take more than one season for these guys to mature enough in the mental aspect of the game itself.

Broncoknight30
12-07-2016, 05:33 AM
To be fair to Elway and the organization though both Osweiler and Lynch were rated higher than the other QB's you mentioned. Obviously the draft is a crapshoot anyway but considering what Denver was looking for at the time they drafted those guys it wasnt far fetched to say they took the guys who were projected be the better players going into the draft. At one point this offseason Dak was being looked at pretty hard by Denver but when they had the opportunity to draft Lynch who was projected higher they took it. Oz has clearly showed that the limited time he had in college has played a factor into his maturation process as a pro but the book isnt quite done on him yet as he still has just but one full season under his belt in terms of actual starts.

But i would also guess that had Siemian or Lynch played behind the Cowboys Oline they may have faired much better than they have this year in Denver because of the Oline woes. Right now Prescott is benefiting a lot from a great Oline and a most likely the best RB in the NFL right now. Just like our QB's are benefiting from having a good defense (much like Wilson his rookie year) to which you can still win games with great defense. Cousins is really the only one out of the bunch that you mentioned that actually carries his team offensively but strangely enough he was not the first QB chosen in that draft by the Redskins as RGIII was actually drafted (or wasted of a draft pick depending on your view) in the first round. Sometimes when it comes to how good or great a QB will be is the situation to which they arrive in. I think ultimately Denver is a great enough organization that either Siemian or Lynch will have success here but there are some other parts of the team that needs to be addressed and corrected not to mention its going to take more than one season for these guys to mature enough in the mental aspect of the game itself.

I do think Russell Wilson is even better than what people give him credit for. He was the top rated passer in the NFL last year and that was without Lynch and Jimmy Graham was injured. Also, if you look at it, he has been sacked at a far higher rate than Luck. I think Luck has close to 500 more pass attempts and Wilson has been sacked more times.

Yes, he benefits from a great defense, but if you look at his QBR rating, especially in the 4th quarter, it is pretty special. He is the quint essential west coast offense QB imo.

Anyway, I guess the point is drafts are judged on a few key issues. One, is if a top draft choice is starting or on the team he was drafted by 3 or 4 years later, and if players from the same position drafted are more productive than the player drafted.

It is what it is. Obviously in Lynch's case, it faaar too early to make any conclusive opinion. Just that Dak Prescott is really looking like the real deal. Yeah, he is benefitting from. GREAT OL and RB, but have to give him credit. He is making plays. He is not just game manager.

spikerman
12-07-2016, 06:17 AM
To be fair, if teams really knew what Wilson would become and what Prescott looks like he might become they wouldn't have lasted until the 3rd and 4th rounds respectively. Elway isn't the only one who didn't have them as highly rated as they should have been in hindsight.

Broncoknight30
12-07-2016, 07:20 AM
To be fair, if teams really knew what Wilson would become and what Prescott looks like he might become they wouldn't have lasted until the 3rd and 4th rounds respectively. Elway isn't the only one who didn't have them as highly rated as they should have been in hindsight.

Yeah true. That is the way it would be judged. The same position is the big factor.

Fact is in 2012 the Broncos were drafting a QB for the future in the SECOND round. I do not think Osweiler was ranked in most scouting reports ahead of Wilson or Cousins (could be wrong. ) As of now, those two QBs seem be the far better prospects.

It really is not fair, but that is how draft picks are judged. One of the ways. Obviously, he has been great with other decisions. In fact at this point he is achieving legendary status as a GM.

Tned
12-07-2016, 08:44 AM
Dak Prescott does not have that many starts. The thing that is fair to judge imo is who was passed up for Lynch. Heck, can also judge who was passed up for Osweiler.

Elway took Osweiler over Russell Wilson in 2012 and kirk cousins for that matter. He also took Lynch over Prescott.

Is that unfair? Maybe, hindsight is always 20/20. However, that is an issue imo.

I would only say it's fair if you have the discussion in the context of the success/failures of drafted QBs in general. So, a good exercise would be to look at all the QBs drafted in the first round over the last 15 years. I did, it's an eye opening experience in terms of the "throw a dart and pray" skill which is drafting NFL QBs. You don't even need to go to second round QBs (but can for fun) to see what a low percentage of QBs drafted early (first/second round) turn out to be quality starters.

Tned
12-07-2016, 08:46 AM
Yeah true. That is the way it would be judged. The same position is the big factor.

Fact is in 2012 the Broncos were drafting a QB for the future in the SECOND round. I do not think Osweiler was ranked in most scouting reports ahead of Wilson or Cousins (could be wrong. ) As of now, those two QBs seem be the far better prospects.

It really is not fair, but that is how draft picks are judged. One of the ways. Obviously, he has been great with other decisions. In fact at this point he is achieving legendary status as a GM.

I'm late to the show, so I assume it's already been pointed out that Jerry Jones was trying to trade in front of the Broncos to pick Lynch, so it's not like he rated Prescott higher than Lynch. Picking QBs is a crap shoot, it is literally a roll of the dice with all but a few of the true, true blue chip prospects.

Tned
12-07-2016, 08:52 AM
Here you go, someone already did the work (source and article link below). Here are first round QBs drafted from 99 to 2014. Not great formatting, but you can make it out, or go here for a properly formatted list.

http://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/index.ssf/2015/04/success_for_quarterbacks_picke.html

Year Pick Player, drafting team Starts Regular
season QB Rating Playoffs
1999 1 Tim Couch, Browns 59 22-37-0 75.1
1999 2 Donovan McNabb, Eagles 161 98-62-1 85.6 9-7
1999 3 Akili Smith, Bengals 17 3-14-0 52.8
1999 11 Daunte Culpepper, Vikings 100 41-59-0 87.8 2-2
1999 12 Cade McNown, Bears 15 3-12-0 67.7
2000 18 Chad Pennington, Jets 81 44-37-0 90.1 2-4
2001 1 Michael Vick, Falcons 112 59-50-1 80.4 2-3
2002 1 David Carr, Texans 79 23-56-0 74.9
2002 3 Joey Harrington, Lions 76 26-50-0 69.4
2002 32 Patrick Ramsey, Redskins 24 10-14-0 74.9
2003 1 Carson Palmer, Bengals 143 70-73-0 86.3 0-2
2003 7 Byron Leftwich, Jaguars 50 24-26-0 78.9 0-1
2003 19 Kyle Boller, Ravens 47 20-27-0 69.5
2003 22 Rex Grossman, Bears 47 25-22-0 71.4 2-2
2004 1 Eli Manning, Chargers 167 91-76-0 82.4 18-3
2004 4 Philip Rivers, Giants 144 88-56-0 95.7 4-5
2004 11 Ben Roethlisberger, Steelers 158 106-52-0 93.9 10-5
2004 22 J.P. Losman, Bills 33 10-23-0 75.6
2005 1 Alex Smith, 49ers 105 57-47-1 82.8 1-2
2005 24 Aaron Rodgers, Packers 103 70-33-0 106.0 6-5
2005 25 Jason Campbell, Redskins 79 32-47-0 81.7
2006 3 Vince Young, Titans 50 31-19-0 74.4 0-1
2006 10 Matt Leinart, Cardinals 18 8-10-0 70.2
2006 11 Jay Cutler, Broncos 119 61-58-0 85.2 1-1
2007 1 JaMarcus Russell, Raiders 25 7-18-0 65.2
2007 22 Brady Quinn, Browns 20 4-16-0 64.4
2008 3 Matt Ryan, Falcons 110 66-44-0 94.1 1-4
2008 18 Joe Flacco, Ravens 112 72-40-0 84.8 10-5
2009 1 Matthew Stafford, Lions 77 35-42-0 83.6 0-2
2009 5 Mark Sanchez, Jets 70 37-33-0 74.1 4-2
2009 17 Josh Freeman, Buccaneers 60 24-36-0 77.8
2010 1 Sam Bradford, Rams 49 18-30-1 79.3
2010 25 Tim Tebow, Broncos 16 8-6-0 75.3 1-1
2011 1 Cam Newton, Panthers 62 30-31-1 85.4 1-2
2011 8 Jake Locker, Titans 23 9-14-0 79.0
2011 10 Blaine Gabbert, Jaguars 27 5-22-0 66.8
2011 12 Christian Ponder, Vikings 36 14-21-1 75.9
2012 1 Andrew Luck, Colts 48 33-15-0 86.6 3-3
2012 2 Robert Griffin III, Redskins 35 14-21-0 90.6 0-1
2012 8 Ryan Tannehill, Dolphins 48 23-25-0 84.0
2012 22 Brandon Weeden, Browns 21 5-16-0 72.5
2013 16 EJ Manuel, Bills 14 6-8-0 78.5
2014 3 Blake Bortles, Jaguars 13 3-10-0 69.5
2014 22 Johnny Manziel, Browns 2 0-2-0 42.0
2014 32 Teddy Bridgewater, Vikings 12 6-6-0 85.2

Freyaka
12-07-2016, 09:18 AM
Here you go, someone already did the work (source and article link below). Here are first round QBs drafted from 99 to 2014. Not great formatting, but you can make it out, or go here for a properly formatted list.

http://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/index.ssf/2015/04/success_for_quarterbacks_picke.html

Year Pick Player, drafting team Starts Regular
season QB Rating Playoffs
1999 1 Tim Couch, Browns 59 22-37-0 75.1
1999 2 Donovan McNabb, Eagles 161 98-62-1 85.6 9-7
1999 3 Akili Smith, Bengals 17 3-14-0 52.8
1999 11 Daunte Culpepper, Vikings 100 41-59-0 87.8 2-2
1999 12 Cade McNown, Bears 15 3-12-0 67.7
2000 18 Chad Pennington, Jets 81 44-37-0 90.1 2-4
2001 1 Michael Vick, Falcons 112 59-50-1 80.4 2-3
2002 1 David Carr, Texans 79 23-56-0 74.9
2002 3 Joey Harrington, Lions 76 26-50-0 69.4
2002 32 Patrick Ramsey, Redskins 24 10-14-0 74.9
2003 1 Carson Palmer, Bengals 143 70-73-0 86.3 0-2
2003 7 Byron Leftwich, Jaguars 50 24-26-0 78.9 0-1
2003 19 Kyle Boller, Ravens 47 20-27-0 69.5
2003 22 Rex Grossman, Bears 47 25-22-0 71.4 2-2
2004 1 Eli Manning, Chargers 167 91-76-0 82.4 18-3
2004 4 Philip Rivers, Giants 144 88-56-0 95.7 4-5
2004 11 Ben Roethlisberger, Steelers 158 106-52-0 93.9 10-5
2004 22 J.P. Losman, Bills 33 10-23-0 75.6
2005 1 Alex Smith, 49ers 105 57-47-1 82.8 1-2
2005 24 Aaron Rodgers, Packers 103 70-33-0 106.0 6-5
2005 25 Jason Campbell, Redskins 79 32-47-0 81.7
2006 3 Vince Young, Titans 50 31-19-0 74.4 0-1
2006 10 Matt Leinart, Cardinals 18 8-10-0 70.2
2006 11 Jay Cutler, Broncos 119 61-58-0 85.2 1-1
2007 1 JaMarcus Russell, Raiders 25 7-18-0 65.2
2007 22 Brady Quinn, Browns 20 4-16-0 64.4
2008 3 Matt Ryan, Falcons 110 66-44-0 94.1 1-4
2008 18 Joe Flacco, Ravens 112 72-40-0 84.8 10-5
2009 1 Matthew Stafford, Lions 77 35-42-0 83.6 0-2
2009 5 Mark Sanchez, Jets 70 37-33-0 74.1 4-2
2009 17 Josh Freeman, Buccaneers 60 24-36-0 77.8
2010 1 Sam Bradford, Rams 49 18-30-1 79.3
2010 25 Tim Tebow, Broncos 16 8-6-0 75.3 1-1
2011 1 Cam Newton, Panthers 62 30-31-1 85.4 1-2
2011 8 Jake Locker, Titans 23 9-14-0 79.0
2011 10 Blaine Gabbert, Jaguars 27 5-22-0 66.8
2011 12 Christian Ponder, Vikings 36 14-21-1 75.9
2012 1 Andrew Luck, Colts 48 33-15-0 86.6 3-3
2012 2 Robert Griffin III, Redskins 35 14-21-0 90.6 0-1
2012 8 Ryan Tannehill, Dolphins 48 23-25-0 84.0
2012 22 Brandon Weeden, Browns 21 5-16-0 72.5
2013 16 EJ Manuel, Bills 14 6-8-0 78.5
2014 3 Blake Bortles, Jaguars 13 3-10-0 69.5
2014 22 Johnny Manziel, Browns 2 0-2-0 42.0
2014 32 Teddy Bridgewater, Vikings 12 6-6-0 85.2

So of that long list...Only the players below could be considered "successful" or even partially successful as NFL starters

1999 2 Donovan McNabb, Eagles 161 98-62-1 85.6 9-7
1999 11 Daunte Culpepper, Vikings 100 41-59-0 87.8 2-2
2000 18 Chad Pennington, Jets 81 44-37-0 90.1 2-4
2001 1 Michael Vick, Falcons 112 59-50-1 80.4 2-3
2003 1 Carson Palmer, Bengals 143 70-73-0 86.3 0-2
2003 22 Rex Grossman, Bears 47 25-22-0 71.4 2-2
2004 1 Eli Manning, Chargers 167 91-76-0 82.4 18-3
2004 4 Philip Rivers, Giants 144 88-56-0 95.7 4-5
2004 11 Ben Roethlisberger, Steelers 158 106-52-0 93.9 10-5
2005 1 Alex Smith, 49ers 105 57-47-1 82.8 1-2
2005 24 Aaron Rodgers, Packers 103 70-33-0 106.0 6-5
2006 11 Jay Cutler, Broncos 119 61-58-0 85.2 1-1
2008 3 Matt Ryan, Falcons 110 66-44-0 94.1 1-4
2008 18 Joe Flacco, Ravens 112 72-40-0 84.8 10-5
2009 1 Matthew Stafford, Lions 77 35-42-0 83.6 0-2
2010 1 Sam Bradford, Rams 49 18-30-1 79.3
2011 1 Cam Newton, Panthers 62 30-31-1 85.4 1-2
2012 1 Andrew Luck, Colts 48 33-15-0 86.6 3-3
2014 3 Blake Bortles, Jaguars 13 3-10-0 69.5
2014 32 Teddy Bridgewater, Vikings 12 6-6-0 85.2


The trend outside of 2004 is that AT MOST 1-2 first round QB's pan out per year, sometimes it's less than that even. 2002 and 2007 didn't have any starters pan out nor did 2013.

Tned
12-07-2016, 10:31 AM
So of that long list...Only the players below could be considered "successful" or even partially successful as NFL starters

1999 2 Donovan McNabb, Eagles 161 98-62-1 85.6 9-7
1999 11 Daunte Culpepper, Vikings 100 41-59-0 87.8 2-2
2000 18 Chad Pennington, Jets 81 44-37-0 90.1 2-4
2001 1 Michael Vick, Falcons 112 59-50-1 80.4 2-3
2003 1 Carson Palmer, Bengals 143 70-73-0 86.3 0-2
2003 22 Rex Grossman, Bears 47 25-22-0 71.4 2-2
2004 1 Eli Manning, Chargers 167 91-76-0 82.4 18-3
2004 4 Philip Rivers, Giants 144 88-56-0 95.7 4-5
2004 11 Ben Roethlisberger, Steelers 158 106-52-0 93.9 10-5
2005 1 Alex Smith, 49ers 105 57-47-1 82.8 1-2
2005 24 Aaron Rodgers, Packers 103 70-33-0 106.0 6-5
2006 11 Jay Cutler, Broncos 119 61-58-0 85.2 1-1
2008 3 Matt Ryan, Falcons 110 66-44-0 94.1 1-4
2008 18 Joe Flacco, Ravens 112 72-40-0 84.8 10-5
2009 1 Matthew Stafford, Lions 77 35-42-0 83.6 0-2
2010 1 Sam Bradford, Rams 49 18-30-1 79.3
2011 1 Cam Newton, Panthers 62 30-31-1 85.4 1-2
2012 1 Andrew Luck, Colts 48 33-15-0 86.6 3-3
2014 3 Blake Bortles, Jaguars 13 3-10-0 69.5
2014 32 Teddy Bridgewater, Vikings 12 6-6-0 85.2


The trend outside of 2004 is that AT MOST 1-2 first round QB's pan out per year, sometimes it's less than that even. 2002 and 2007 didn't have any starters pan out nor did 2013.

Yep, with Grossman and Pennington barely successful, but did start for a few years, and the book is still to be written on Bortles and Bridgewater, but at least Bridgewater looks good, but you can't know for sure this early in his career.

Freyaka
12-07-2016, 10:51 AM
Yep, with Grossman and Pennington barely successful, but did start for a few years, and the book is still to be written on Bortles and Bridgewater, but at least Bridgewater looks good, but you can't know for sure this early in his career.

Bortles really doesn't look that bad either. At first glance he looks like he's regressed, but if you look at his interceptions, the guy's had terrible luck with his WR's this year. A huge majority of his INT's are passes that the WR has in their hands and then tips up into the air. That's 100% on the WR (just like the one that Harris intercepted this week)

I kinda felt I had to include Grossman and Pennington simply due to the fact that they did start for a decent period of time and made the playoffs. I nearly included Sanchez, but he never really stuck with a team long term long Grossman/Pennington did.

Hawgdriver
12-07-2016, 11:14 AM
Tannehill?

Freyaka
12-07-2016, 11:25 AM
Tannehill?

Yea, I suppose a case could be made for that since he is a current starter.

BroncoJoe
12-07-2016, 12:07 PM
Not worthy of a new thread, so I'll just put this here. I can hear heads exploding already.

http://www.12up.com/posts/4229418-report-broncos-work-out-former-texans-quarterback?a_aid=41091

Tned
12-07-2016, 12:08 PM
Bortles really doesn't look that bad either. At first glance he looks like he's regressed, but if you look at his interceptions, the guy's had terrible luck with his WR's this year. A huge majority of his INT's are passes that the WR has in their hands and then tips up into the air. That's 100% on the WR (just like the one that Harris intercepted this week)

I kinda felt I had to include Grossman and Pennington simply due to the fact that they did start for a decent period of time and made the playoffs. I nearly included Sanchez, but he never really stuck with a team long term long Grossman/Pennington did.

Understood, just meant that with 13 and 10 starts respectively, it's too early to know on Bortles and Bridgewater. Especially Bridgewater, I think there is promise, but hard to say.

I used the term "successful" with Grossman and Pennington, only from the perspective that for us QB spoiled Broncos fans, there aren't many of us that would be happy with either of them as the starter.

Tned
12-07-2016, 12:09 PM
Not worthy of a new thread, so I'll just put this here. I can hear heads exploding already.

http://www.12up.com/posts/4229418-report-broncos-work-out-former-texans-quarterback?a_aid=41091

Yea, really. I posted that as a joke last week, but I guess TJ Yates coming to the Broncos is no longer in joke territory.

tripp
12-07-2016, 12:15 PM
Is it Gary Kubiak's offense that's making Lynch play poorly, or is Lynch just simply not playing that well?

Let's say for example he ran a style of offense similar to the Patriots, would he perform better as a QB? I know the O-line wouldn't change in terms of protection, but is our system too complex for him?

I look at Peyton's struggles in this style of offense, and I can't help but wonder if maybe it's our style on offense that's creating more problems than anything else.

BroncoJoe
12-07-2016, 12:20 PM
Is it Gary Kubiak's offense that's making Lynch play poorly, or is Lynch just simply not playing that well?

Let's say for example he ran a style of offense similar to the Patriots, would he perform better as a QB? I know the O-line wouldn't change in terms of protection, but is our system too complex for him?

I look at Peyton's struggles in this style of offense, and I can't help but wonder if maybe it's our style on offense that's creating more problems than anything else.

Kubiak has had very good success with every QB he's ever coached. I'm going to guess Paxton.

Freyaka
12-07-2016, 12:20 PM
Not worthy of a new thread, so I'll just put this here. I can hear heads exploding already.

http://www.12up.com/posts/4229418-report-broncos-work-out-former-texans-quarterback?a_aid=41091

What's funny is Tned joked about that last week...now it's actually happening.

This will not be a good sign for Lynch12, oh he'll try and spin it, but this doesn't bode well for the staff's faith in Paxton to get it done.

Mike
12-07-2016, 12:48 PM
Kubiak has had very good success with every QB he's ever coached. I'm going to guess Paxton.

4 QBs have run his system here in Denver....all with the same meh or worse results. You'd be crazy not to at least question it at this point.

Lynch12
12-07-2016, 01:05 PM
Not worthy of a new thread, so I'll just put this here. I can hear heads exploding already.

http://www.12up.com/posts/4229418-report-broncos-work-out-former-texans-quarterback?a_aid=41091

Lol and people think kubiak doesn't fall in love with poor quarterbacks. There's no reason yates should be working out for anybody. This says to me that kubiak is realizing that Trevor isn't ever going to be healthy to play week in week out, need a backup but tj yates? Smh

Lynch12
12-07-2016, 01:07 PM
4 QBs have run his system here in Denver....all with the same meh or worse results. You'd be crazy not to at least question it at this point.

Kubiak system can only work with an o line/ strong running game. Always been that wayI. Without the misdirection, play action stuff the passing game is going to struggle especially without a run game.

Lynch12
12-07-2016, 01:08 PM
Kubiak play designs as far as the straight up drop back passing game goes sucks, his pay calling sucks when it comes down to that as well.

Valar Morghulis
12-07-2016, 01:08 PM
4 QBs have run his system here in Denver....all with the same meh or worse results. You'd be crazy not to at least question it at this point.

Maybe, but Peyton already started to struggle in gase's offense the year before and the other three are all more or less rookies

I do think the majority of issues stem from the oline, including the possibility test that post of hood scheme is no longer effective against a larger, but equally athletic defensive line

BroncoJoe
12-07-2016, 01:11 PM
4 QBs have run his system here in Denver....all with the same meh or worse results. You'd be crazy not to at least question it at this point.

Well, 2 of them won the Superbowl last year...

That said, I get it. However, last year we had a broken-down HOF QB, a backup that wasn't all that, and this year essentially two rookies. I don't think we're seeing Kubiak's real offense.

Lynch12
12-07-2016, 01:16 PM
At some point you have to run your ( real offense ). How the hell can Trevor not run the real offenze when he's been studying it for a year and a half? At some point its fair to question kubiak.

BroncoJoe
12-07-2016, 01:26 PM
At some point you have to run your ( real offense ). How the hell can Trevor not run the real offenze when he's been studying it for a year and a half? At some point its fair to question kubiak.

Sure - at some point. The fact he was dealing with a QB last year that wanted to run his own offense, then a QB that isn't all that good plays a part. Plus, they were both learning the new system - yet we still won the SB.

This year, I agree (sort of) that Trevor should have a better understanding, but let's not lose sight of the fact he's never started or played in an NFL game until week one. Understanding and executing with live bullets flying are two different things. It takes time. Paxton was not in an NFL style offense in college, and his learning curve is going to be much greater.

It's FAR too early to throw our SB winning HC under the bus at this point.

Tned
12-07-2016, 01:28 PM
Is it Gary Kubiak's offense that's making Lynch play poorly, or is Lynch just simply not playing that well?

Let's say for example he ran a style of offense similar to the Patriots, would he perform better as a QB? I know the O-line wouldn't change in terms of protection, but is our system too complex for him?

I look at Peyton's struggles in this style of offense, and I can't help but wonder if maybe it's our style on offense that's creating more problems than anything else.

I think it's more to do with Lynch coming out of a very low IQ QB system. Not meaning he's low IQ, but that they didn't require to do much other than take the snap and throw the ball. So, just calling plays in the huddle that he's getting relayed in his earpiece is completely new territory for him, not to mention more complex offensive concepts, probably things like reading defenses and making protections changes, etc.

It's not that he can't play, but that he has a ton to learn, which interferes with his ability to just make plays.

Freyaka
12-07-2016, 01:32 PM
At some point you have to run your ( real offense ). How the hell can Trevor not run the real offenze when he's been studying it for a year and a half? At some point its fair to question kubiak.

How can we run his "real" offense when his real offense requires competent o-line play and we have yet to see that?

Lynch12
12-07-2016, 01:39 PM
Sure - at some point. The fact he was dealing with a QB last year that wanted to run his own offense, then a QB that isn't all that good plays a part. Plus, they were both learning the new system - yet we still won the SB.

This year, I agree (sort of) that Trevor should have a better understanding, but let's not lose sight of the fact he's never started or played in an NFL game until week one. Understanding and executing with live bullets flying are two different things. It takes time. Paxton was not in an NFL style offense in college, and his learning curve is going to be much greater.

It's FAR too early to throw our SB winning HC under the bus at this point.

It's not throwing him under the bus, its throwing his offensive scheme and play calling under the bus. Whether Trevor is rookie or not he should have the entire playbook at his disposal after a year and a half man. Whether he can perform it is another thing but the entire playbook should be being used for Trevor.

And dont kid yourself wade Phillips and his defense won kubiak that superbowl, it absolutely had zero to do with his offense

Lynch12
12-07-2016, 01:42 PM
Kubiaj should be at elways office drilling him about the offensive line, unless of course he and elway both think they can still make great offensive linemen out of undraftees and late round picks like the glory days which has proven to be a bad formula for us.

Lynch12
12-07-2016, 01:43 PM
I think it's more to do with Lynch coming out of a very low IQ QB system. Not meaning he's low IQ, but that they didn't require to do much other than take the snap and throw the ball. So, just calling plays in the huddle that he's getting relayed in his earpiece is completely new territory for him, not to mention more complex offensive concepts, probably things like reading defenses and making protections changes, etc.

It's not that he can't play, but that he has a ton to learn, which interferes with his ability to just make plays.

So what's Trevor excuse for not being able to run the ( real offense )? Only thing he was askrd to do lazt year and a half was learn the real offense.

Tned
12-07-2016, 01:46 PM
Maybe, but Peyton already started to struggle in gase's offense the year before and the other three are all more or less rookies

I do think the majority of issues stem from the oline, including the possibility test that post of hood scheme is no longer effective against a larger, but equally athletic defensive line

My thinking is that it's partially due to the larger/faster defensive players, but in large part due to many player safety rules making it much harder to engage low/cut defenders to the ground. They are trying to run the zone scheme much more upright than in the past, and it's much harder to pull it off effectively.