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View Full Version : The Bad and the Worse: Week 9



BroncoWave
11-06-2016, 11:55 PM
I only saw like half the game so I don't have much to contribute here but I can't think of much good that I saw. Discuss.

wayninja
11-06-2016, 11:55 PM
Kapri bibbs is the best running back in the NFL.

Tned
11-06-2016, 11:56 PM
McManus was good.

Hawgdriver
11-07-2016, 12:01 AM
Roby isn't Talib.

Hawgdriver
11-07-2016, 12:02 AM
TJR was so right.

:behindsofa:

silkamilkamonico
11-07-2016, 12:08 AM
Defense has holes. They also have injuries. It's also about time they start getting help from the offense.

Offense is pathetic. When are the coaches going to be held accountable for the dumpster fire along the oline? Siemian isn't the answer. He's only good when the system is working, which has made it's mark as a QB friendly system that any QB can look good in. That's Siemian stance right now. The guy does absolutely nothing to make plays on offense.

ShaneFalco
11-07-2016, 12:11 AM
Siemian only decent thing on entire offense. notice i say decent, because he could be better.


Crick got run on all night long.

Might as well put in a DT in his place.

atwater27
11-07-2016, 12:11 AM
Playcalling. Atrocious. Not liking this style of offense. At all. We have too good receivers to waste their talents as they are used. THROW DOWN FIELD. Of course, the Oline is a mess. Just ugly all the way around.

atwater27
11-07-2016, 12:12 AM
The ******* raiders ran for over 200 yards on us. Ugh barf WTF

Watchthemiddle
11-07-2016, 12:14 AM
1 screen pass called all night and it went to the house. Play calling and our playmaker on offense are missing.

Watchthemiddle
11-07-2016, 12:16 AM
I sat Murray on my fantasy team because he was going against our D. His 31 pts would have given me a win.

HORSEPOWER 56
11-07-2016, 12:17 AM
Ward was bringing it tonight and almost had that pick. McManus had a good game. Bibs had that great play on the screen pass, reminded me of stuff CJ has done on screens before.

Other than that, we were pretty bad. Zero running game. Booker can't just try to run people over. He's getting run over. The Oline sucks st run blocking. Pass blocking actually wasn't too bad tonight, the passing game as a whole just sucked. Siemian is Orton v 2.0 and our WRs always looked like they were going half speed. The defense wore out and started getting hurt because the offense couldn't stay on the field.

One last thing, Decamillis must tell our returners just to stay in the end zone. There isn't a single guy on this team good at returning kickoffs and yet we seem to try it more than any team I see only to get the worst starting field position of any team I've watched this season. The madness must end.

Tned
11-07-2016, 12:19 AM
Ward was bringing it tonight and almost had that pick. McManus had a good game. Bibs had that great play on the screen pass, reminded me of stuff CJ has done on screens before.

Other than that, we were pretty bad. Zero running game. Booker can't just try to run people over. He's getting run over. The Oline sucks st run blocking. Pass blocking actually wasn't too bad tonight, the passing game as a whole just sucked. Siemian is Orton v 2.0 and our WRs always looked like they were going half speed. The defense wore out and started getting hurt because the offense couldn't stay on the field.

One last thing, Decamillis must tell our returners just to stay in the end zone. There isn't a single guy on this team good at returning kickoffs and yet we seem to try it more than any team I see only to get the worst starting field position of any team I've watched this season. The madness must end.

Bibbs was also over 5 ypc on first two carries

CrazyHorse
11-07-2016, 12:19 AM
So when will Talib and Webster be back? Also when is Elway signing Terrance Knighton?

Hawgdriver
11-07-2016, 12:20 AM
It felt like all the holes in the Broncos' roster were violated over and over.

CrazyHorse
11-07-2016, 12:21 AM
Ward was bringing it tonight and almost had that pick. McManus had a good game. Bibs had that great play on the screen pass, reminded me of stuff CJ has done on screens before.

Other than that, we were pretty bad. Zero running game. Booker can't just try to run people over. He's getting run over. The Oline sucks st run blocking. Pass blocking actually wasn't too bad tonight, the passing game as a whole just sucked. Siemian is Orton v 2.0 and our WRs always looked like they were going half speed. The defense wore out and started getting hurt because the offense couldn't stay on the field.

One last thing, Decamillis must tell our returners just to stay in the end zone. There isn't a single guy on this team good at returning kickoffs and yet we seem to try it more than any team I see only to get the worst starting field position of any team I've watched this season. The madness must end.

I wouldn't mind seeing Bibbs return kicks, he's not the fastest but he's extremely shifty.

HORSEPOWER 56
11-07-2016, 12:28 AM
I wouldn't mind seeing Bibbs return kicks, he's not the fastest but he's extremely shifty.

Bibbs did tonight. The first three kick returns averaged around the 15 yard line starting field position. That's 30 total offensive yards lost just by not taking a friggin' knee. It's aggravating.

CrazyHorse
11-07-2016, 12:31 AM
Bibbs did tonight. The first three kick returns averaged around the 15 yard line starting field position. That's 30 total offensive yards lost just by not taking a friggin' knee. It's aggravating.

Guess I wasn't paying attention. :confused: I thought it was Norwood.

WARHORSE
11-07-2016, 12:47 AM
Booker couldn't find a hole if it was in the backside of his jockstrap. We need a real runningback.

The offense is atrocious. We must only have a total of 10 offensive plays cause the playcalling is absolutely awful.

Offense has about as much fight as a fat girl facing a cheeseburger and fries. Lets exclude Sanders from that mix cause hes the only one.



No pride on the offensive side of the ball and its starting to seep into our defense.

Wolfe..........Lets all pray.

Talib.......Lets all pray.

Roby is good but the mental letdown in the end was telling.


Lets be real......without the run game, this offense is a car sitting on jackstands.





John you better have a sitdown with the boyz, and I cant believe you didnt do anything before the trade deadline knowing we have 3 3rds.

Magnificent Seven
11-07-2016, 01:04 AM
Referees missed many calls on raiders offensive linemen. SMH :frusty:

They carried balls way too much in the first half without using FB Janovich. How come they didn't use Janovich often?

Our run defense sucks tonight.

MOtorboat
11-07-2016, 01:24 AM
Don't really see many bright spots.

It's just one game. I'm sure it will be better next time.

underrated29
11-07-2016, 01:52 AM
Bibbs was a bright spot. Tj ward too. That's about it.....dixon and McManus were also good

CrazyHorse
11-07-2016, 01:54 AM
Don't really see many bright spots.

It's just one game. I'm sure it will be better next time.

I kind of hope the division comes down to the last game and we murderdance on the Raiders in Denver.

weazel
11-07-2016, 02:07 AM
Semen is a bust :lol:

Its impossible for a qb taken that late in the draft to be a bust. Now jamarcus russell... Thats a bust. But its okay little fella, we know you're not very bright

Joel
11-07-2016, 03:08 AM
1 screen pass called all night and it went to the house. Play calling and our playmaker on offense are missing.
Seems like just yesterday the mantra was "wtf do we keep calling all these stupid screens that NEVER WORK; our playcalling SUCKS!"

Our playcalling DOES suck: Kubiak should call Red Right 65 Re-Sign Zimmerman, Schlereth and Nalen from Twenty Years Ago more often.

Jaded
11-07-2016, 03:26 AM
Can't run block at all, not much better in Pass Pro, must be the playcalling.

"Throw moar" is the stupidest thing going right now.

By far the single worst thing on the field was the officiating, that's saying something.

Northman
11-07-2016, 04:21 AM
Cant give up 200 yds rushing when you are touted as one of the best defenses in the league. Just cant do it. You also need to find ways to "at the very least" string together first downs and give the defense a breather.

Joel
11-07-2016, 05:25 AM
Can't run block at all, not much better in Pass Pro, must be the playcalling.
Either that or the scrub Q/RBs. ;)


"Throw moar" is the stupidest thing going right now.
It's the desperate garbage time battlecry of an impotent offense down two scores in the 4th on the ro—oh... right....

Reminds me of THGoFs explanation for why coaches 80 years ago never passed even when hopelessly outclassed: Because grossly inferior running teams lose games 10-3; grossly inferior passing teams get blown out 40-0. Neither is good, but if you're a coach and want to REMAIN one, the first scenario's way better than the second.

DenBronx
11-07-2016, 07:17 AM
First off, anyone that says the loss of Malik and Trevathan wasn't a big deal are dead wrong.

Second, not having Talib makes this defense look alot different. He brings the nasty. This team NEEDS that...Talib just makes everyone else meaner on the team. Romanowski used to have that effect.

Third, CJ would have been a big help getting those first downs tonight. I hope Bibbs and Booker step up. Bibbs I think really wants to prove himself.

Fourth, the play calling was a disaster. A total disaster. Way too many 3 n outs, in a row and that let Oakland have their way. Kubiak should of challenged that one touchback that got called at the 1 yard line. Could have been a bigger loss. Again, this is Oakland....we shouldn't lose to those idiots. I hate losing to them! Now I have to deal with this shit all week. Smh

Fifth, the refs were jackasses. I don't usually complain about the officials but I didn't agree with many of the calls.

Sixth, I hope Wolfe will be ok. I am really concerned about our chances this year if he goes on IR.

Seventh, Trevor is hot/cold too much. Games like this he needs to stop making mental mistakes like intentional grounding. Imo, Elway will have a short leash if he loses games like this to rivals. That's 2 big losses.

8th, wtf is our kick returner ****ing bringing the ball out when there are NO clear lanes? He screwed us!

I could go on forever this game....it was a cluster.

The good?

I am struggling to find something in this game. McManus was pretty good I guess. Glad to have Wade, Kubiak and Ware all back at the sametime.

EastCoastBronco
11-07-2016, 07:30 AM
I watched 3 quarters of this mess.
Our whole team, with the exception of Ward, Miller, Wolfe and Sanders came out flat and stayed flat.
This game used to be a special event for both teams and the hate on the field was palatable.
Oakland remembered the rivalry and played accordingly...we did not.
We couldn't match their intensity in any phase of this dumpster fire.
I place most of the blame on our shitty o-line but even early on (before they were tired out) the D was missing easy tackles that would have ended drives.
We just didn't show up as a team.

VonDoom
11-07-2016, 07:39 AM
They carried balls way too much in the first half without using FB Janovich. How come they didn't use Janovich often?

.

He's got that cast on his hand that apparently makes him ineffective. I saw that he played one offensive snap last night. One! I'd be surprised if the return of our FB makes us a powerhouse running team, though.

Tned
11-07-2016, 07:55 AM
Second, not having Talib makes this defense look alot different. He brings the nasty. This team NEEDS that...Talib just makes everyone else meaner on the team. Romanowski used to have that effect.

I agree missing Talib hurt a lot, but he didn't cause Robey and others to miss tackles and play so sloppy.


Again, this is Oakland....we shouldn't lose to those idiots. I hate losing to them! Now I have to deal with this shit all week. Smh

This isn't the Raiders of the last 14 or so years, this is actually a good team. I have a Raiders fan at work, who was already giving me crap about how the Broncos lost to them last year. Going to hear more today.

chazoe60
11-07-2016, 08:02 AM
I'll sum it up in one sequence of plays:
1st and ten @ the 1- Throw deep to double covered Emmanuel
2nd and 10 @ the 1- run up the middle for 4 yds
3rd and 6 @ the 5- 3 yard pass and an Offensive PI call
PUNT

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
11-07-2016, 08:31 AM
The good news is i thought we'd drop this one and the next against NO. We should have a much better draft pick than last year!

broncofaninfla
11-07-2016, 09:03 AM
There is something very predictable at our offense. We can rag the players all we want but what see on coaching and scheme.

tomjonesrocks
11-07-2016, 09:12 AM
Not much to say that hasn't already been said.

I thought after Kubiak's comments last week there might be some new wrinkles or some change on offense- but no. Same slow start, same Siemian, same O-line, same play calling.

With no defensive miracles it was a thorough beatdown. 13 vs. 30 first downs and a more than 20 minute TOP gap? Good grief.

It seems like they're trying the same thing that isn't working and hoping for different results.

Davii
11-07-2016, 09:15 AM
Bad: Our defense last night. Being down to a practice squad corner.

Worse: Our run defense.

Horrible: Our offensive line. Terrible. That Elway really did nothing to fix it is mind boggling.

tomjonesrocks
11-07-2016, 09:23 AM
Horrible: Our offensive line. Terrible. That Elway really did nothing to fix it is mind boggling.

That there wasn't some move on the trade deadline is very surprising. And there weren't even rumblings deals fell through.

There may be reduced short-term expectations at Dove Valley.

Slick
11-07-2016, 09:27 AM
The defense spent over 40 minutes on the field. That is just ridiculous.

When the offense has 4 three and outs to start the game you're not going to win much.

There were some missed tackles and Roby didn't have a good game, but I'm not going to blame the defense. The score could have been a lot worse if it weren't for them. They did a damn good job keeping it at 13-0 early considering. Oakland had great field position because of the ineptitude of the offense.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
11-07-2016, 09:31 AM
The defense spent over 40 minutes on the field. That is just ridiculous.

When the offense has 4 three and outs to start the game you're not going to win much.

There were some missed tackles and Roby didn't have a good game, but I'm not going to blame the defense. The score could have been a lot worse if it weren't for them. They did a damn good job keeping it at 13-0 early considering. Oakland had great field position because of the ineptitude of the offense.
Continually running out kicks to the 15 with a guy who has 4.6 speed didn't help either.

GEM
11-07-2016, 09:33 AM
Bibbs was a bright spot. Tj ward too. That's about it.....dixon and McManus were also good

Dixon kicks weird. It looks like it's going to be tall but short, but then goes long. It's happened a couple times. Good problem to have. :D

blamkin86
11-07-2016, 09:34 AM
Continually running out kicks to the 15 with a guy who has 4.6 speed didn't help either.

Anyone know what the thought process is for running out those kicks? There's enough evidence and data now that we know we shouldn't be doing it.

Someone somewhere thinks it's a good idea; I'd like to understand why.

Davii
11-07-2016, 09:38 AM
That there wasn't some move on the trade deadline is very surprising. And there weren't even rumblings deals fell through.

There may be reduced short-term expectations at Dove Valley.

I truly don't see any reason why we shouldn't have tried to trade for some OL help. Hell, we might even be able to get help off the street. Our OL is worse than last year, and that's really saying something.

Davii
11-07-2016, 09:39 AM
Anyone know what the thought process is for running out those kicks? There's enough evidence and data now that we know we shouldn't be doing it.

Someone somewhere thinks it's a good idea; I'd like to understand why.

I think it falls on Bibbs. I didn't see any reason to run those kicks out.

Slick
11-07-2016, 09:44 AM
Continually running out kicks to the 15 with a guy who has 4.6 speed didn't help either.

Absolutely. Oakland killed Denver with field position all night.

Davii
11-07-2016, 09:45 AM
Absolutely. Oakland killed Denver with field position all night.

I actually sent Bibbs a tweet after the second one asking if he knew that we got the ball at the 25 if he stayed in the endzone. Wasn't sure he knew. I hope he saw it, doubt it though.

EastCoastBronco
11-07-2016, 09:50 AM
It's last year all over again...;-)
As long as it turns out the same way I'll be happy.
Shit, we lost to these douchebags at home last year and look what happened.
I think it's going to be up and down all season.
I just hope Derek Wolfe is OK and not out for too long.

Slick
11-07-2016, 09:51 AM
I actually sent Bibbs a tweet after the second one asking if he knew that we got the ball at the 25 if he stayed in the endzone. Wasn't sure he knew. I hope he saw it, doubt it though.

El oh el. Thanks. I needed a laugh.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
11-07-2016, 09:54 AM
It's last year all over again...;-)
As long as it turns out the same way I'll be happy.
Shit, we lost to these douchebags at home last year and look what happened.
I think it's going to be up and down all season.
I just hope Derek Wolfe is OK and not out for too long.
He's got a fractured bone in his arm. We probably won't see him again until the end of the season. I just hope he doesn't get popped again for taking supps to help speed up the recovery process....again. This means more Winn and Gotsis. Wolfe was our best run defender on the line....

Lynch12
11-07-2016, 09:55 AM
The good? Im glad we got our ass's kicked by two division opposition. Maybe the squad will wake up,maybe the staff will wake up, maybe elway will drop his fkn ego and sign knighton, maybe they will all realize Trevor is mediocre to poor consistently and go with the upside in the rookie. Lynch has that passion and fire and will to make something happen while Trevor is just duhhhh and flat, he doesn't rally the troos at all, eli manning is the only laid back quarterback in the league but he's suoer talented the troops just follow that.

Lynch12
11-07-2016, 09:57 AM
He's got a fractured bone in his arm. We probably won't see him again until the end of the season. I just hope he doesn't get popped again for taking supps to help speed up the recovery process....again. This means more Winn and Gotsis. Wolfe was our best run defender on the line....

If elway dros the ego and sign knighton our run defense improves a ton, also frees up the hackers to do o more.

Lynch12
11-07-2016, 10:00 AM
Anyone know what the thought process is for running out those kicks? There's enough evidence and data now that we know we shouldn't be doing it.

Someone somewhere thinks it's a good idea; I'd like to understand why.

The special teams coach said that he coaches them to run it out weeks ago. Maybe it's because they know there quarterback isn't a playmaker and have to try and score wherever they can.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
11-07-2016, 10:01 AM
If elway dros the ego and sign knighton our run defense improves a ton, also frees up the hackers to do o more.

He would help in first down at least. We could move Sly to DE in the base.

Lynch12
11-07-2016, 10:02 AM
I truly don't see any reason why we shouldn't have tried to trade for some OL help. Hell, we might even be able to get help off the street. Our OL is worse than last year, and that's really saying something.

There's gotta be some guys on the street looking to get a shot and play well. There's just gotta be!

Lynch12
11-07-2016, 10:05 AM
He would help in first down at least. We could move Sly to DE in the base.

He wqs a stud in this defense, and could be bad for cheap because he's coming off the street. Maybe we shouod all tweet elway telling him to sign ******* knighton.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
11-07-2016, 10:06 AM
He wqs a stud in this defense, and could be bad for cheap because he's coming off the street. Maybe we shouod all tweet elway telling him to sign ******* knighton.

He never played in Wade's D. He played in Del Rio's D here.

Lynch12
11-07-2016, 10:08 AM
Oh well, same concept, same familiarity with the guys, the city, etc. Bottom line is we can use him and sly isnt a NT, he's more of a 34 DE, I guarantee his production would sky rocket if he was moved to DE.

underrated29
11-07-2016, 10:09 AM
I think it falls on Bibbs. I didn't see any reason to run those kicks out.



I'm not sure. Everyone we have had returning the kicks has done it. All the way back to ore season. Cody latimer....all of them. It's coaching I think

BroncoWave
11-07-2016, 10:24 AM
I think it falls on Bibbs. I didn't see any reason to run those kicks out.

We've been doing it all season with multiple returners back there. I don't see how there isn't enough evidence out there to 100% say it's the coaches coaching the players to do it.

blamkin86
11-07-2016, 11:29 AM
We've been doing it all season with multiple returners back there. I don't see how there isn't enough evidence out there to 100% say it's the coaches coaching the players to do it.

Right - I'm wondering what their thought process is. Someone thinks it's a good idea - but why?

weazel
11-07-2016, 11:49 AM
Right - I'm wondering what their thought process is. Someone thinks it's a good idea - but why?

same reason certain baseball players only hit 20-30 home runs in 600 at-bats each season but still swing for the fence every time they walk to the plate.

MOtorboat
11-07-2016, 11:51 AM
same reason certain baseball players only hit 20-30 home runs in 600 at-bats each season but still swing for the fence every time they walk to the plate.

So you're saying Denver's kick return is Adam Dunn?

Tned
11-07-2016, 12:20 PM
Bad: Our defense last night. Being down to a practice squad corner.

Worse: Our run defense.

Horrible: Our offensive line. Terrible. That Elway really did nothing to fix it is mind boggling.

I think he thought he did signing the two free agent tackles.

weazel
11-07-2016, 12:26 PM
Adam Dunn, lol

GEM
11-07-2016, 12:35 PM
Right - I'm wondering what their thought process is. Someone thinks it's a good idea - but why?

Because the offense can't do jack shit and they are hoping it will spark a big return. Unfortunately, it hasn't and we put the shitty offense in an even worse situation.

NightTerror218
11-07-2016, 12:41 PM
The bad....

OL on Rush block is not existent. They did alright giving siemian time in pocket, i said alright not good. Able to go 1 on 1 with mack most of game.

Sly williams and other DL not named wolfe. They are suppose to be the run stuffers but keep getting pancaked. And ILB not named marshall, keep letting big runs occur and are not good tacklers.

Roby was victimized a lot. Kept giving 10-15 yard cushion and quick passes kept getting first downs. CBs did not give pass rush much time to get to Carr. Doss and nixon are just bad.

Siemian is still slipping imo on his read progressions and decision making. 90% lock onto dt or sanders or hit check down. Always first read it seems like. But he can make those passes.

RBs did not let holes develop and ran into back of OL. Did not seems to show patience and just ran hard as soon as they got ball. This on top of OL poor blocking made it a bad combo.


The good
Siemian staying in pocket to throw big throws and take hit. Big pass to DT and TD pass were examples. He is more of a pass and let WR make a play on the ball than pin point accuracy passer. Example sanders beat the CB and had to lay out for catch. A slightly better pass and he could have caught it on run for TD.

McManus is back and his big leg is accurate again.

Dixon is not bad. He kicks do not get returned for much but he can boom a kick. I would like to see his average go up.

VonDoom
11-07-2016, 01:32 PM
Here are Siemian's completion percentages for every game - stark contrast from before the injury and since he's been back out there. Trending in the wrong direction:

Week 1 - 69.2
Week 2 - 66.7
Week 3 - 65.7
Week 4 - 71.4 (only seven passes before leaving with injury)

Week 6 - 60.0
Week 7 - 56.0
Week 8 - 52.6
Week 9 - 48.6

Nomad
11-07-2016, 01:37 PM
This season is cruising on by.

BroncoJoe
11-07-2016, 01:38 PM
He does seem a bit spooked back there. He's either not fully healed, or he doesn't want to get hurt again.

Northman
11-07-2016, 01:44 PM
Here are Siemian's completion percentages for every game - stark contrast from before the injury and since he's been back out there. Trending in the wrong direction:

Week 1 - 69.2
Week 2 - 66.7
Week 3 - 65.7
Week 4 - 71.4 (only seven passes before leaving with injury)

Week 6 - 60.0
Week 7 - 56.0
Week 8 - 52.6
Week 9 - 48.6


He does seem a bit spooked back there. He's either not fully healed, or he doesn't want to get hurt again.


This is what im wondering. It might be a combination of everything between getting hurt and not being fully 100% and the fact he probably doesnt want to lose his job. But those numbers that Von posted make sense because that is when i started to notice the difference in his play as well.

Hawgdriver
11-07-2016, 01:47 PM
Is anyone concerned that starting Lynch is a risk to Lynch's career?

BroncoWave
11-07-2016, 02:04 PM
So not counting the game where he left early, Siemian's completion % has dropped every single week this year. That's obviously not good. The saints have probably the worst defense we will face all year, so if he can't be effective against them, I'm not sure who he will be effective against.

VonDoom
11-07-2016, 02:05 PM
So not counting the game where he left early, Siemian's completion % has dropped every single week this year. That's obviously not good. The saints have probably the worst defense we will face all year, so if he can't be effective against them, I'm not sure who he will be effective against.

I mean, Kaepernick put up 398 yards on the Saints yesterday. So yeah, if there's any chance we look like a competent offense, this week should be it. If not, I think TJR is right and then Siemian gets the hook and Lynch starts after the bye.

MOtorboat
11-07-2016, 02:06 PM
So not counting the game where he left early, Siemian's completion % has dropped every single week this year. That's obviously not good. The saints have probably the worst defense we will face all year, so if he can't be effective against them, I'm not sure who he will be effective against.

I believe the Raiders defense came in ranked 30th. They were a dumpster fire until they got to face Siemian.

BroncoWave
11-07-2016, 02:07 PM
I believe the Raiders defense came in ranked 30th. They were a dumpster fire until they got to face Siemian.

I think the saints have an even worse defense than Oakland. And they won't be jacked up for this game the way Oakland was. There are no more possible excuses after this week.

Northman
11-07-2016, 02:09 PM
Saints have no defense but it all boils down to whether or not Siemien can play better than Kaep. At this point right now? Doubtful.

Hawgdriver
11-07-2016, 02:10 PM
I believe the Raiders defense came in ranked 30th. They were a dumpster fire until they got to face Siemian.

Thought stats weren't your thing. ?

Nomad
11-07-2016, 02:13 PM
who dat say dey gonna beat dem saints....who dat :lol:

MOtorboat
11-07-2016, 02:13 PM
Thought stats weren't your thing. ?

Stats are fine.

BroncoJoe
11-07-2016, 02:15 PM
I believe the Raiders defense came in ranked 30th. They were a dumpster fire until they got to face Siemian.

I didn't realize Siemian played all 11 positions on offense. Plus 11 on defense. He's quite special if that's the case.

HORSEPOWER 56
11-07-2016, 02:21 PM
I didn't realize Siemian played all 11 positions on offense. Plus 11 on defense. He's quite special if that's the case.

The same things were said about Orton every week... by topscribe.

weazel
11-07-2016, 02:22 PM
I didn't realize Siemian played all 11 positions on offense. Plus 11 on defense. He's quite special if that's the case.

I was thinking the same thing.

Hawgdriver
11-07-2016, 02:25 PM
I didn't realize Siemian played all 11 positions on offense. Plus 11 on defense. He's quite special if that's the case.

No, but he is the lightning rod, better or worse. It's a critical position and he isn't producing what the QB position requires.

I had the same thought to MO's logically fallacious quip, but he has something of a point.

Hawgdriver
11-07-2016, 02:26 PM
I just don't get all the bitching about it. It is what it is.

VonDoom
11-07-2016, 02:27 PM
I think the saints have an even worse defense than Oakland. And they won't be jacked up for this game the way Oakland was. There are no more possible excuses after this week.

We made Atlanta's defense look good too, and they're now 26th in the league. Oakland is up to 27th now after last night. Saints are 30th, giving up 408.5 yards per game (though Oakland was giving up over 410 before they played us, if I remember correctly). In terms of points allowed, Saints are also 30th at 29.8 ppg, with Atlanta 28th (at 28.8 ppg - we scored 16) and San Diego 26th at 27.4 (we scored 13 and 27, mostly thanks to our defense in the latter).

So yeah, we haven't lit up bad defenses this year. The Saints have been a laughing stock on defense for the last few years - if we can't do it here, there really is no hope.

King87
11-07-2016, 02:30 PM
Bibbs was not a bright spot. There were no bright spots. I have a love hate relationship with Kubiak's playcalling. If the line can't block and you are going to throw the ball you should be calling more drags, slants, et al. You know, the type of routes that irritate us as fans when the OTHER team uses them to offset our pass rush.

slim
11-07-2016, 02:32 PM
We are on to New Orleans.

Hawgdriver
11-07-2016, 02:33 PM
We are on to New Orleans.

Hell yes we are. Best post.

Northman
11-07-2016, 02:34 PM
I just don't get all the bitching about it. It is what it is.

You do have a valid point. This almost akin to the Trump/Clinton debates. I think while we are surprised by our record this year that no one really came into this season expecting success but when it presents itself you take the reigns and ride it out and see what happens. If we tank the rest of the season than we tank but im quite happy being 6-3 right now considering.

silkamilkamonico
11-07-2016, 02:37 PM
Truthfully, the only bright spot about the Siemian experiment is we might honestly have a very good backup QB in Denver with him for a long time.

Northman
11-07-2016, 02:39 PM
Truthfully, the only bright spot about the Siemian experiment is we might honestly have a very good backup QB in Denver with him for a long time.

He can be the modern day Kubiak.

Slick
11-07-2016, 02:42 PM
Is anyone concerned that starting Lynch is a risk to Lynch's career?

Not at all. If he can't hack some failure, he wasn't meant to play QB in the NFL. I don't think it's anything to worry about. If he does gets some starts this year, it won't be anytime soon.

capt. Jack
11-07-2016, 02:56 PM
He can be the modern day Kubiak.

Trevor is going to win us Super Bowl 75 as the Broncos Head coach!

Hawgdriver
11-07-2016, 03:22 PM
Not at all. If he can't hack some failure, he wasn't meant to play QB in the NFL. I don't think it's anything to worry about. If he does gets some starts this year, it won't be anytime soon.

I mean injury-wise.

I Eat Staples
11-07-2016, 03:46 PM
I just don't get all the bitching about it. It is what it is.

Most of the "bitching" is in response to people who constantly defend Siemian. It's really quite perplexing that a QB who was bad in college and is bad in the NFL gets so much support from some fans. I guess part of it is that, even though he hasn't been good, he's been a LOT better than he was expected to be.

weazel
11-07-2016, 03:58 PM
Most of the "bitching" is in response to people who constantly defend Siemian. It's really quite perplexing that a QB who was bad in college and is bad in the NFL gets so much support from some fans. I guess part of it is that, even though he hasn't been good, he's been a LOT better than he was expected to be.

I'm not defending him but how has he been worse than anyone else that has ran this offense the last two years? There have been 4 QB's behind center in two seasons, How much worse, if at all, has Semien been?

I Eat Staples
11-07-2016, 04:00 PM
I'm not defending him but how has he been worse than anyone else that has ran this offense the last two years? There have been 4 QB's behind center in two seasons, How much worse, if at all, has Semien been?

Peyton was horrible last year. Bottom 3 QB in the league, if not the worst. Being better than that is still bad. Osweiler was better, but wasn't great, and apparently is even worse this year. Lynch played one game and looked really bad.

I don't think it's any silver lining on Siemian's play that he's managed to not be worse than complete disasters, but that's why I said he's been a lot better than I expected him to be. I expected him to be the worst QB in the entire league. He's been bottom half, but not the worst.

weazel
11-07-2016, 04:04 PM
so nobody in this offense has looked good at the QB position and people are blaming the QB? again,I'm not defending him, but that is absolute insanity.

Nomad
11-07-2016, 04:04 PM
Until Siemian loses the support from teammates and coaches, he's the QB.... gotta support their decisions as a team.

I Eat Staples
11-07-2016, 04:08 PM
so nobody in this offense has looked good at the QB position and people are blaming the QB? again,I'm not defending him, but that is absolute insanity.

The QBs who looked bad in the offense have been an old, injured Peyton who played one year too long, Brock Osweiler who has been historically bad this season, Paxton Lynch who is a very raw rookie, and Trevor Siemian who might be the worst college QB to ever start an NFL game. It's not like we have superstars being held back by the offense. We haven't had a good QB under Kubiak.

weazel
11-07-2016, 04:10 PM
The QBs who looked bad in the offense have been an old, injured Peyton who played one year too long, Brock Osweiler who has been historically bad this season, Paxton Lynch who is a very raw rookie, and Trevor Siemian who might be the worst college QB to ever start an NFL game. It's not like we have superstars being held back by the offense. We haven't had a good QB under Kubiak.

so the answer is obviously... Tebow! where's my mile high salutes?

I Eat Staples
11-07-2016, 04:12 PM
so the answer is obviously... Tebow! where's my mile high salutes?

Well if we're going that far back, Tebow and Orton can get thrown in with the bunch. In fact, Orton would be the best of them. That's how bad it is.

The answer is hopefully Lynch, but we don't know when that will be, if ever. I'm cautiously optimistic about him but there are legitimate concerns.

Slick
11-07-2016, 04:13 PM
I mean injury-wise.

No more so than any other football player.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
11-07-2016, 04:22 PM
Is anyone concerned that starting Lynch is a risk to Lynch's career?

Yes, he is so inexperienced I don't see what he will gain from playing. How does proving he can take a beating help anything?

NightTerror218
11-07-2016, 04:32 PM
Here are Siemian's completion percentages for every game - stark contrast from before the injury and since he's been back out there. Trending in the wrong direction:

Week 1 - 69.2
Week 2 - 66.7
Week 3 - 65.7
Week 4 - 71.4 (only seven passes before leaving with injury)

Week 6 - 60.0
Week 7 - 56.0
Week 8 - 52.6
Week 9 - 48.6

I think this is because there is game film now on him.

NightTerror218
11-07-2016, 04:36 PM
Bibbs was not a bright spot. There were no bright spots. I have a love hate relationship with Kubiak's playcalling. If the line can't block and you are going to throw the ball you should be calling more drags, slants, et al. You know, the type of routes that irritate us as fans when the OTHER team uses them to offset our pass rush.

Watch siemian he locks onto his first read or goes directly to check down 90%. He does not /look see the TE on slants or RB slipping out of backfield into middle of field.

DenBronx
11-07-2016, 04:39 PM
Truth is, we might be battling for a Wild Card and I am ok with that. This team could get hot in the playoffs so lets just get there. Pride and egos will get hurt during the regular season but champions are made during the playoffs.

DenBronx
11-07-2016, 04:41 PM
Siemian played awful too but there's just no way that he will lose the job unless we get blown out by the Saints.

Hawgdriver
11-07-2016, 04:42 PM
No more so than any other football player.

I am. Lanky rookie that likes to run, perceived playmaker, shown he wants to extend plays to make something happen. No, he's not RG3, but I'd prefer more experience before throwing him to the wolves.

Slick
11-07-2016, 04:46 PM
I am. Lanky rookie that likes to run, perceived playmaker, shown he wants to extend plays to make something happen. No, he's not RG3, but I'd prefer more experience before throwing him to the wolves.

Fair enough. Because things often get twisted around here, I will reiterate that I am not advocating for Lynch to start right now.

Valar Morghulis
11-07-2016, 04:46 PM
I just watched the game, I missed it last night and will be handing in my fan card as a result.

Good

Tj ward
The fact we were still in the ball game half way through the fourth quarter

The bad
Oline
Run d

The better than I expected based on what I read on here

Siemian
I honestly think Aaron Rogers would look bad as our qb.... Which means I will stop with my hate for lynch

I Eat Staples
11-07-2016, 04:48 PM
I just watched the game, I missed it last night and will be handing in my fan card as a result.

Good

Tj ward
The fact we were still in the ball game half way through the fourth quarter

The bad
Oline
Run d

The better than I expected based on what I read on here

Siemian
I honestly think Aaron Rogers would look bad as our qb.... Which means I will stop with my hate for lynch

Maybe off topic, but Rodgers has actually been a below average QB the past season and a half at least. I don't know why, because he looks fine physically, but he's been bad.

Valar Morghulis
11-07-2016, 04:50 PM
Maybe off topic, but Rodgers has actually been a below average QB the past season and a half at least. I don't know why, because he looks fine physically, but he's been bad.

Olivia Munn is tiring him out. First world problems of a superstar

Valar Morghulis
11-07-2016, 04:59 PM
Although I feel pot roast gets viewed through rose tinted glasses because of the afccg I still think we should get him in for a look at the very least. We gotta plug the middle somehow and a large mammal like knighton might do the job

DenBronx
11-07-2016, 05:10 PM
Anyone know how much longer we have Talib and Ware under contract?

HORSEPOWER 56
11-07-2016, 05:26 PM
Anyone know how much longer we have Talib and Ware under contract?

I think this is Ware's last year and he took a pay cut to stay. I think Talib has one more after this.

Hawgdriver
11-07-2016, 05:26 PM
Fair enough. Because things often get twisted around here, I will reiterate that I am not advocating for Lynch to start right now.

kinda ambiguous, could you clarify?

BroncoJoe
11-07-2016, 05:34 PM
kinda ambiguous, could you clarify?

Yeah, I was kind of confused by that post as well.

weazel
11-07-2016, 05:38 PM
Slick's gotta stop sitting on the fence

King87
11-07-2016, 05:42 PM
Watch siemian he locks onto his first read or goes directly to check down 90%. He does not /look see the TE on slants or RB slipping out of backfield into middle of field.

He's not missing guys out there THAT much. Outside of the slants, those are the basic plays OC's and HC's trust their young guys to do.

weazel
11-07-2016, 05:45 PM
He's not missing guys out there THAT much. Outside of the slants, those are the basic plays OC's and HC's trust their young guys to do.

I don't know, did you watch him in that one play in the 3rd quarter? He closed his eyes, wet himself and fell to the ground and spun around making siren noises right after throwing the ball behind him into the endzone.

wayninja
11-07-2016, 05:55 PM
so the answer is obviously... Tebow! where's my mile high salutes?

Tebow didn't enjoy even a 10th of the benefit of the doubt that Siemian is getting. Drops weren't drops, system wasn't the systems fault, the bad oline play, while better than now, was dismissed as bad because he was one dimensional and on and on.

Not having a better alternative is not an excuse. At least it shouldn't be.

Nomad
11-07-2016, 06:07 PM
I'll be sure to give Kubiak a call to switch QBs. That's how much influence I have on the decision. :lol:

Northman
11-07-2016, 06:19 PM
Tebow didn't enjoy even a 10th of the benefit of the doubt that Siemian is getting..

Tebow at least got to finish the season.

NightTerror218
11-07-2016, 06:26 PM
No talk of a new ILB next to marshall. Travatjam and him were great because they are amazi g tacklers and both good coverage LB. And now we have davis whom i have seen miss tackles and is not a tackling machine by any means. Travathan and marshall were both 100 tackle a season players.

wayninja
11-07-2016, 06:26 PM
Tebow at least got to finish the season.

He didn't start it...

Slick
11-07-2016, 06:36 PM
Slick's gotta stop sitting on the fence

I know I am. It's kind of a shitty thing to do, but I've admitted to wanting to see Lynch get more of a run for selfish reasons but at the same time understanding why the coaches go with Trevor.

cmc0605
11-07-2016, 06:37 PM
Siemian isn't playing spectacular, but the problems go way deeper than him.

It's impossible to find a team with such consistently worse play-calling, lack of rhythm, no attempt to establish tempo, or exploit specific D weaknesses. There is no coherency between plays. On passing downs, the formations and route trees are such that players are getting little separation and not in space, so we cannot get yards after the catch. Siemian missing some throws is far less of a worry than how much we don't do. You see more creative concepts in preseason games across the league.

wayninja
11-07-2016, 06:45 PM
I know I am. It's kind of a shitty thing to do, but I've admitted to wanting to see Lynch get more of a run for selfish reasons but at the same time understanding why the coaches go with Trevor.

Selfish reasons? Explain.

Northman
11-07-2016, 06:52 PM
He didn't start it...

I realize that. My point is for all the criticism he took he was at least able to finish the season once he came in. No one seems open to allowing Siemien to do the same.

BroncoWave
11-07-2016, 07:11 PM
I realize that. My point is for all the criticism he took he was at least able to finish the season once he came in. No one seems open to allowing Siemien to do the same.

Because Tebow was Lynch in this scenario. First round QB who got his chance to play because the guy ahead of him was so bad. Sieman would be the Orton in this case.

Tned
11-07-2016, 07:32 PM
Here are Siemian's completion percentages for every game - stark contrast from before the injury and since he's been back out there. Trending in the wrong direction:

Week 1 - 69.2
Week 2 - 66.7
Week 3 - 65.7
Week 4 - 71.4 (only seven passes before leaving with injury)

Week 6 - 60.0
Week 7 - 56.0
Week 8 - 52.6
Week 9 - 48.6

And to the eye, it's just as stark. In those first four games he was HIGHLY accurate on his passes. Announcers were making comments about his accuracy. He wasn't putting receivers in harms way. He was throwing a very good ball. Since then, he's missing badly on a lot of throws. I don't know if it's related to the injury, or getting happy feet from getting hit so much or what, but he's clearly regressed in how accurate he is.

wayninja
11-07-2016, 07:49 PM
I realize that. My point is for all the criticism he took he was at least able to finish the season once he came in. No one seems open to allowing Siemien to do the same.

I'm open to it. I don't think Lynch will be much better. But again, being the better of two shitty options (where have I said that before?) doesn't mean both options aren't shitty.

Tned
11-07-2016, 08:00 PM
I'm open to it. I don't think Lynch will be much better. But again, being the better of two shitty options (where have I said that before?) doesn't mean both options aren't shitty.

Why wouldn't Lynch be better?


Yes, he is so inexperienced I don't see what he will gain from playing. How does proving he can take a beating help anything?

I'm a bit old school, but I think throwing QBs into the fire does more harm than good. They have to both run for their lives AND learn NFL play calling, game planning, etc. In big QB money era, I think only Cincy had the fortitude to sit their rookie (Palmer) and currently LA is doing it. Before there was the pressure of starting these big money guys, it was considered good to let a rookie hold a clipboard for a year (I know they don't have clipboards anymore -- and if you don't know what a clipboard is, youngsters, google it).


I think this is because there is game film now on him.

I highly doubt it. He's missing short throws to open receivers, so unless it's him studying film of himself and learning how to defend his own pass, I don't think film has a bit to do with it. Since his injury, he's gone from a highly accurate QB to a so/so accuracy QB.


I know I am. It's kind of a shitty thing to do, but I've admitted to wanting to see Lynch get more of a run for selfish reasons but at the same time understanding why the coaches go with Trevor.

I'm actually the same about Lynch. Obviously, I see Siemian's performance (when graded as a first year starter) far different than you, but when it comes to wanting to see Lynch play, I'm right there. There was a big part of me hoping that Lynch played so amazing in the start that they decided to give Siemian a little more time to heal and see what the Rookie could do with a few games.

wayninja
11-07-2016, 08:06 PM
Why wouldn't Lynch be better?

He didn't look particularly strong against the Falcons, but the truth of it is that I don't really know if he'd be much better or worse. I'd have to cop out on the answer and say that the coaches simply don't think he would be or he'd be in there.

King87
11-07-2016, 08:09 PM
He didn't look particularly strong against the Falcons, but the truth of it is that I don't really know if he'd be much better or worse. I'd have to cop out on the answer and say that the coaches simply don't think he would be or he'd be in there.

I think he would have moments of pure brilliance and pure failure. IDK. I don't think TS is the problem or the solution. He's just....a guy...

wayninja
11-07-2016, 08:18 PM
I think he would have moments of pure brilliance and pure failure. IDK. I don't think TS is the problem or the solution. He's just....a guy...

I'm not decided on whether or not he's the problem. I mean, he's definitely not all of the problem that's for sure. But I'm becoming more convinced that he's not the solution.

King87
11-07-2016, 08:20 PM
I'm not decided on whether or not he's the problem. I mean, he's definitely not all of the problem that's for sure. But I'm becoming more convinced that he's not the solution.

He's a seventh rounder with the blandest of all talent. He's never going to be the solution as a young QB. I think he could develop into a serviceable starter down the road...but by that time he won't be a Bronco.

Jaded
11-07-2016, 08:48 PM
He's not missing guys out there THAT much. Outside of the slants, those are the basic plays OC's and HC's trust their young guys to do.

He's missing at least one big play or a TD a game, he missed DT on a double move on the waggle that Derby dropped. He's 100% just going with his first read. He's going from the first/easiest progression to the last with dump offs.

He's a paint-by-numbers QB at this point.

King87
11-07-2016, 08:59 PM
He's missing at least one big play or a TD a game, he missed DT on a double move on the waggle that Derby dropped. He's 100% just going with his first read. He's going from the first/easiest progression to the last with dump offs.

He's a paint-by-numbers QB at this point.

Of course he is. He has average at best talent. Look -- we all know that it's easy in today's era for QB's to have inflated completion percentages. In fact, you want your young QB to have them. It means you can call a safe game. No one here thinks he's actually a good QB. A healthy Tony Romo or Rivers are good QB's. But he CAN do better with the shorter passing game, and we CAN call better games using those routes.

Jaded
11-07-2016, 10:37 PM
Of course he is. He has average at best talent. Look -- we all know that it's easy in today's era for QB's to have inflated completion percentages. In fact, you want your young QB to have them. It means you can call a safe game. No one here thinks he's actually a good QB. A healthy Tony Romo or Rivers are good QB's. But he CAN do better with the shorter passing game, and we CAN call better games using those routes.

I just thought you said he wasn't missing that many big plays.

I like the kid.

King87
11-07-2016, 10:40 PM
I just thought you said he wasn't missing that many big plays.

I like the kid.

I meant to say that he is missing plays but it's not like he's missing everything and is utterly drooling down his jersey.

Tned
11-07-2016, 10:41 PM
I just thought you said he wasn't missing that many big plays.


I don't think any of us really know how many big plays he's missing, since we don't know what's called. What I do know is that it seems like other than maybe on a bootleg, if he holds it long enough to go deep, he's throwing as he gets hit. I blame that as much on the unimaginative play calling as I do on the lousy pass defense.

Also, some of that is Siemian not being aware of the pocket. On the strip, it sure seems like he drifted too far back, not helping out his tackles, before running forward and then having the ball stripped.

Jaded
11-07-2016, 11:20 PM
I don't think any of us really know how many big plays he's missing, since we don't know what's called. What I do know is that it seems like other than maybe on a bootleg, if he holds it long enough to go deep, he's throwing as he gets hit. I blame that as much on the unimaginative play calling as I do on the lousy pass defense.

Also, some of that is Siemian not being aware of the pocket. On the strip, it sure seems like he drifted too far back, not helping out his tackles, before running forward and then having the ball stripped.

This is surely true, Stokley said as much, also said that even though there's a better option the first read is still the correct throw.

Btw, you can pile on the playcalling but he said it's true for every system.

Tned
11-07-2016, 11:26 PM
This is surely true, Stokley said as much, also said that even though there's a better option the first read is still the correct throw.

Btw, you can pile on the playcalling but he said it's true for every system.

My play calling issues date back to '05 AFCCG. Kubiak never had a pan B to go to if running game, and therefore play action, isn't working.

Jaded
11-07-2016, 11:27 PM
He's missed TD's on the boot in both the last two games, he's never going to more than Kyle Borton until he starts taking these kinds of chances.

Jaded
11-07-2016, 11:34 PM
My play calling issues date back to '05 AFCCG. Kubiak never had a pan B to go to if running game, and therefore play action, isn't working.

Kinda like the previous OC/HC, and the ones before that, and the ones before that.

Jaded
11-07-2016, 11:38 PM
Mike McCoy went to Plan B when it was obvious that Tebow wasn't an NFL QB, but other than that, you can literally say the same for every playcaller they've had.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
11-08-2016, 12:48 AM
He's missed TD's on the boot in both the last two games, he's never going to more than Kyle Borton until he starts taking these kinds of chances.

The mere fact he can actually run a bootleg moves him past the Orton factor. Plus, no fainting goat!

Jaded
11-08-2016, 12:53 AM
The mere fact he can actually run a bootleg moves him past the Orton factor. Plus, no fainting goat!

Ok...valid point. But his beard will never be as glorious.

BroncoWave
11-08-2016, 12:58 AM
Ok...valid point. But his beard will never be as glorious.

No Broncos QB facial hair will ever be as glorious as Jake Plummer's mustache.

Northman
11-08-2016, 04:33 AM
Because Tebow was Lynch in this scenario. First round QB who got his chance to play because the guy ahead of him was so bad. Sieman would be the Orton in this case.

Except Siemien doesnt have Orton's experience in your scenario.

Tned
11-08-2016, 07:34 AM
Except Siemien doesnt have Orton's experience in your scenario.

This is what confuses me in general. Even most of those that would like to see Lynch either don't argue the team will be better with Lynch, and take the position that they are will to sacrifice this year (various ways of saying that), in order to get Lynch ready for the future.

So, they accept that Lynch will struggle, possibly badly as a first year starter. Yet, Siemian, who the coaches obviously feel is the most NFL QB right now and was a better choice than a veteran like Sanchez, is a first year starter and is having standard first year starter struggles, and he's given zero latitude in that regard. I just don't really get it.

Tned
11-08-2016, 07:48 AM
Ugly. PFF released their 10 worst players of week 9. Three of the spots are manned by Broncos.


1. Donald Stephenson

With Khalil Mack having one of the best games of the week in Oakland’s win over Denver, it’s no surprise that his chief victim, Stephenson, takes a place among the worst. Stephenson was beat like a drum all day by Mack, losing 13 clear times in pass protection on only 42 pass-blocking snaps, and having arguably the worst day of any player at any position this week. Stephenson now has the lowest PFF grade of any tackle outside of Minnesota’s T.J. Clemmings, and a score that is among the worst we have ever given a tackle over the past decade of grading.

2. Bradley Roby
8. Jared Crick

See the commentary on the other two guys here: https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-10-worst-players-from-sundays-week-9-nfl-action/

Tned
11-08-2016, 07:53 AM
Siemian had a pretty mediocre 52 rating:


Trevor Sieman was under pressure more often than not, as the rush affected him on 21 of 39 dropbacks. When he had a clean pocket, Siemian had a QB rating of 110.6, but under pressure it plummeted to 53.4, as he completed just seven of 19 balls with an interception and two sacks taken. He also struggled on throws to the middle of the field, as he completed just 50 percent of his throws between the numbers (none of them were deep shots).

https://media.profootballfocus.com/2016/11/Screen-Shot-2016-11-07-at-1.06.30-AM.png

Garcia and Paradis graded high, along with DT, Sanders and Norwood. Wolfe and Miller led the defense, along with Marshall, Ware and Stewart all above 75.

Full Den/Oak grades here: https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-den-oak-grades/

Tned
11-08-2016, 07:55 AM
By the way, if you guys didn't see the Vic Lombardi talking football this week when he was interviewing Harris, Harris was talking about how PFF had Broncos defense ranked number one and Talib and Harris rated one and two.

I found it interesting that Harris was talking on the set about how he keeps track of how PFF grades players.

I Eat Staples
11-08-2016, 09:12 AM
By the way, if you guys didn't see the Vic Lombardi talking football this week when he was interviewing Harris, Harris was talking about how PFF had Broncos defense ranked number one and Talib and Harris rated one and two.

I found it interesting that Harris was talking on the set about how he keeps track of how PFF grades players.

Harris is a very cerebral player. When you listen to him talk and read the things he posts you understand how a player who was on nobody's radar going into the NFL has become one of its best players. His preparation, film study, and general understanding of the game are extremely impressive. Someone on here posted an article he wrote about the 5 hardest receivers to cover and it was a joy to read.

I Eat Staples
11-08-2016, 09:14 AM
I had a dream last night that we traded for Carson Wentz.

Had to rub one out before work after that.

Northman
11-08-2016, 10:29 AM
I had a dream last night that we traded for Carson Wentz.

Had to rub one out before work after that.

You mean the guy who has regressed as a QB over the last 5 weeks?

I Eat Staples
11-08-2016, 11:16 AM
You mean the guy who has regressed as a QB over the last 5 weeks?

He was going to look like a rookie eventually. No rookie would have sustained his ridiculous start. He's still above average for a veteran QB, and fantastic for a rookie.

VonDoom
11-08-2016, 11:39 AM
Ugly. PFF released their 10 worst players of week 9. Three of the spots are manned by Broncos.

See the commentary on the other two guys here: https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-10-worst-players-from-sundays-week-9-nfl-action/

Was there no one better last year that we could have signed as a tackle? I mean, Stephenson is an upgrade on Schofield which isn't saying much. But I remember that Chiefs fans laughed when he left (never a good sign) and we gave him a multiyear deal as a starting tackle when he was basically a swing tackle in KC, if I remember correctly. I found it puzzling at the time, and he seems to be regressing.

Northman
11-08-2016, 11:41 AM
He was going to look like a rookie eventually.

Just wanted to make sure we were on the same page.

MOtorboat
11-08-2016, 12:05 PM
Was there no one better last year that we could have signed as a tackle? I mean, Stephenson is an upgrade on Schofield which isn't saying much. But I remember that Chiefs fans laughed when he left (never a good sign) and we gave him a multiyear deal as a starting tackle when he was basically a swing tackle in KC, if I remember correctly. I found it puzzling at the time, and he seems to be regressing.

Denver signed two tackles that were probably top 10 in the free agent class at the position.

Lynch12
11-08-2016, 12:21 PM
I'm not defending him but how has he been worse than anyone else that has ran this offense the last two years? There have been 4 QB's behind center in two seasons, How much worse, if at all, has Semien been?

The point is they they have all been bad and not worthy, Trevor must go to the bench. Since when did ( well the other guys were bad so trevor being bad is fine) shit become acceptable? This is becoming beyond laughable.

Lynch12
11-08-2016, 12:23 PM
so nobody in this offense has looked good at the QB position and people are blaming the QB? again,I'm not defending him, but that is absolute insanity.

Could it be that every last one of them aren't any good? What are you implying quarterbacks cannot succeed in Denver as if the quarterback position in Denver is cursed?

Valar Morghulis
11-08-2016, 12:23 PM
Denver signed two tackles that were probably top 10 in the free agent class at the position.

Yeah, I agree. I feel for Elway on this.... He tried to address the issue, and on paper his roster moves should have worked.

Similar to the year we moved Franklin, the moves we have made on the oline have not paid off, but it is not for lack of trying.

We can't be all pro in all positions

wayninja
11-08-2016, 12:24 PM
Again, I don't really have a solution, so that sucks, but I don't understand why shitty offensive seasons are the benchmark.

Northman
11-08-2016, 12:27 PM
Yeah, I agree. I feel for Elway on this.... He tried to address the issue, and on paper his roster moves should have worked.

Similar to the year we moved Franklin, the moves we have made on the oline have not paid off, but it is not for lack of trying.

We can't be all pro in all positions

Probably could of let DT walk and signed some more quality Olineman.

weazel
11-08-2016, 12:35 PM
Could it be that every last one of them aren't any good? What are you implying quarterbacks cannot succeed in Denver as if the quarterback position in Denver is cursed?

I'm not implying anything, I'm just saying he hasn't been any worse than the other 3 and that he probably is not the problem. If you want me to point out one glaring defect, I will point out the O-Line.

MOtorboat
11-08-2016, 12:35 PM
Probably could of let DT walk and signed some more quality Olineman.

I don't think the free agents were out there. I like having DT signed, personally.

Lynch12
11-08-2016, 12:45 PM
This is what confuses me in general. Even most of those that would like to see Lynch either don't argue the team will be better with Lynch, and take the position that they are will to sacrifice this year (various ways of saying that), in order to get Lynch ready for the future.

So, they accept that Lynch will struggle, possibly badly as a first year starter. Yet, Siemian, who the coaches obviously feel is the most NFL QB right now and was a better choice than a veteran like Sanchez, is a first year starter and is having standard first year starter struggles, and he's given zero latitude in that regard. I just don't really get it.

Because Trevor does not have any talent to look forward to.

Lynch12
11-08-2016, 12:49 PM
Probably could of let DT walk and signed some more quality Olineman.

Crazy talk bro.

Valar Morghulis
11-08-2016, 12:50 PM
Probably could of let DT walk and signed some more quality Olineman.

If we needed to lose a contract to create some cap space, dt would be my first casualty just because he is a luxury in our offense, but although I am not his biggest fan, I would definitely prefer to keep him

slim
11-08-2016, 12:57 PM
Yeah, I agree. I feel for Elway on this.... He tried to address the issue, and on paper his roster moves should have worked.

Similar to the year we moved Franklin, the moves we have made on the oline have not paid off, but it is not for lack of trying.

We can't be all pro in all positions

Maybe the problem is coaching.

Clancy has some splain'n to do.

Northman
11-08-2016, 01:03 PM
I don't think the free agents were out there. I like having DT signed, personally.

You are probably right and while i dont mind DT either i just think that if that was where money needed to be cut his salary would probably be the one i would of sacrificed.

Northman
11-08-2016, 01:06 PM
If we needed to lose a contract to create some cap space, dt would be my first casualty just because he is a luxury in our offense, but although I am not his biggest fan, I would definitely prefer to keep him

Anyone would but as you pointed out his would of been the easier casualty to deal with. I mean, here it is we have two of the better receivers in the game and yet we cant generate any offense.

Timmy!
11-08-2016, 01:10 PM
Umm....we have 9.5 mil in cap space, and will have 39.5 mil in space in 2017 (before resigning anybody obviously). Also, cutting DT would kill us in dead money. Cap space is not a problem at the moment fellas.

Overthecap.com is your friend.

Northman
11-08-2016, 01:11 PM
Umm....we have 9.5 mil in cap space, and will have 39.5 mil in space in 2017 (before resigning anybody obviously). Also, cutting DT would kill us in dead money. Cap space is not a problem at the moment fellas.

Overthecap.com is your friend.


I was talking about before signing him to the big contract. Not cutting him at this point in time.

Timmy!
11-08-2016, 01:16 PM
I was talking about before signing him to the big contract. Not cutting him at this point in time.

I understand, but that was also going into Mannings last season. We made the right call (superbowl yay). As Mo mentioned Elway did sign 2 OTs this off-season, some of the best available.....but it hasn't helped. We need a RG bad, and TE to hit the seems in the worst way. Hopefully the kid from NE is at least helpful there.

Lynch12
11-08-2016, 01:45 PM
If the tight end isn't running a 3 yard curl and sit route hes not getting the ball from Trevor, Trevor doesn't take chances anywhere on the field and you think he's going to attack the middle of the field 10 plus yards deep where things get crowded and way tighter? I doubt it.

I actually think the latest tight end has ability though, very good athleticism and can attack the seems but I dont think it'll matter. Like another poster said Trevor is Orton 2.0. Captain checkdown and captain 3 and out. Scary QB play.

Timmy!
11-08-2016, 01:59 PM
If the tight end isn't running a 3 yard curl and sit route hes not getting the ball from Trevor, Trevor doesn't take chances anywhere on the field and you think he's going to attack the middle of the field 10 plus yards deep where things get crowded and way tighter? I doubt it.

I actually think the latest tight end has ability though, very good athleticism and can attack the seems but I dont think it'll matter. Like another poster said Trevor is Orton 2.0. Captain checkdown and captain 3 and out. Scary QB play.

We get it man. You hate Siemian. Here's a challenge, for your next 25 posts in Broncos talk, don't use the words Trevor or Siemian. Go.

weazel
11-08-2016, 02:00 PM
We get it man. You hate Siemian. Here's a challenge, for your next 25 posts in Broncos talk, don't use the words Trevor or Siemian. Go.

dude is angry, I guarantee he's foaming at the mouth

Northman
11-08-2016, 02:00 PM
Reminds me a lot of Jagsbitch.

King87
11-08-2016, 02:20 PM
TS is as average as average gets. FFS, he's not Joey Harrington or Kyle Boller. I love Lynch's talent as much as the next guy, but sheesh.

Tned
11-08-2016, 02:22 PM
Because Trevor does not have any talent to look forward to.

I sure hope Joe Ellis wakes up and fires Elway, Kubiak and that DUI guy at Elway's side for being so incompetent as starting a QB completely devoid of talent on a defending SB champion team.

LawDog
11-08-2016, 02:36 PM
Here are Siemian's completion percentages for every game - stark contrast from before the injury and since he's been back out there. Trending in the wrong direction:

Week 1 - 69.2
Week 2 - 66.7
Week 3 - 65.7
Week 4 - 71.4 (only seven passes before leaving with injury)

Week 6 - 60.0
Week 7 - 56.0
Week 8 - 52.6
Week 9 - 48.6

Just for reference, the completion percentage has dropped off as they have become more one-dimensional. Rush yards per game:

Week 1 - 148
Week 2 - 134
Week 3 - 143 correction 52

Week 6 - 99 correction 84
Week 7 - 190 *outlier where CJ and Booker went wild, and CJ's last game
Week 8 - 57
Week 9 - 33

Lynch12
11-08-2016, 02:36 PM
I sure hope Joe Ellis wakes up and fires Elway, Kubiak and that DUI guy at Elway's side for being so incompetent as starting a QB completely devoid of talent on a defending SB champion team.

Shit happens, kubiak falls in love with poor quarterbacks all the time, I forgot the UNC quarterback kubiak loved and thought was just fine as he keeps saying about Trevor but he was also a bum and kubiak thought he was ( just fine ). Elway doesn't decide who plays on game day. Elway knew exactly what Trevor was and traded up to draft a real quarterback.

Lynch12
11-08-2016, 02:39 PM
The Broncos are the champs and I enjoyed it but there not even making the playoffs this year just like the panthers. We started the season 4-0 and will end up 7-9 or 8-8.

Nomad
11-08-2016, 02:39 PM
Just for reference, the completion percentage has dropped off as they have become more one-dimensional. Rush yards per game:

Week 1 - 148
Week 2 - 134
Week 3 - 143

Week 6 - 99
Week 7 - 190 *outlier where CJ and Booker went wild, and CJ's last game
Week 8 - 57
Week 9 - 33

CJ is missed.

Northman
11-08-2016, 02:43 PM
Shit happens, kubiak falls in love with poor quarterbacks all the time, I forgot the UNC quarterback kubiak loved and thought was just fine as he keeps saying about Trevor but he was also a bum and kubiak thought he was ( just fine ). Elway doesn't decide who plays on game day. Elway knew exactly what Trevor was and traded up to draft a real quarterback.

To which that "real" QB couldnt beat out TS in training camp and preseason. Kubiak said all along it was an open competition and Lynch couldnt win the job.

LawDog
11-08-2016, 02:45 PM
The Broncos are the champs and I enjoyed it but there not even making the playoffs this year just like the panthers. We started the season 4-0 and will end up 7-9 or 8-8.

I'm nominating you for Broncos Forums MVP just based on the brilliance of this single post.

weazel
11-08-2016, 02:45 PM
The Broncos are the champs and I enjoyed it but there not even making the playoffs this year just like the panthers. We started the season 4-0 and will end up 7-9 or 8-8.

well there's still time for you to pick up a seahawks or patriots jersey. What did you do to the old ones?

Lynch12
11-08-2016, 02:49 PM
The point is both super bowl teams aren't going anywhere this year. Im fine with that.

Lynch12
11-08-2016, 02:50 PM
To which that "real" QB couldnt beat out TS in training camp and preseason. Kubiak said all along it was an open competition and Lynch couldnt win the job.

Trevor only won the job because he had a leg up knowing the playbook and kubiak thought this team could compete with another bum at quarterback and a stout defense, he's still holding on to for now.

Northman
11-08-2016, 02:52 PM
Trevor only won the job because he had a leg up knowing the playbook and kubiak thought this team could compete with another bum at quarterback and a stout defense, he's still holding on to for now.

So then if Trevor had the leg up than the decision was the right one correct? I mean afterall the team is 6-3 with a winning record.

wayninja
11-08-2016, 02:55 PM
It's a trick question. The correct answer was to bring back Tebow.

Lynch12
11-08-2016, 02:57 PM
At the time sure if your thinking you have a shot, 9 weeks in and it's clear we have no shot, but yet kubes is like Trevor is playing fine and just has some things to work on.... Yeah okay. Now your pissing me off as a coach. Your telling me a guy is fine who has played poor as hell 4 games in a row.

weazel
11-08-2016, 02:58 PM
jagsbch...

Lynch12
11-08-2016, 02:58 PM
I didn't start the season wanting Trevor benched, I gave him a shot knowing it was far fetched since he was a bum in college. He's had his fair shot.

weazel
11-08-2016, 03:00 PM
he's worse that oaklandraider, at least OR didnt pretend to be a Broncos fan

VonDoom
11-08-2016, 03:13 PM
Just for reference, the completion percentage has dropped off as they have become more one-dimensional. Rush yards per game:

Week 1 - 148
Week 2 - 134
Week 3 - 143

Week 6 - 99
Week 7 - 190 *outlier where CJ and Booker went wild, and CJ's last game
Week 8 - 57
Week 9 - 33

Thank you for the context. That is certainly a factor here as well and we'll have to generate something with CJ out. But a couple of those numbers are wrong - I think you were looking at our opponents. We only rushed for 52 yards against the Bengals in week 3 and 84 in week 6 against the Chargers.

MOtorboat
11-08-2016, 03:15 PM
Thank you for the context. That is certainly a factor here as well and we'll have to generate something with CJ out. But a couple of those numbers are wrong - I think you were looking at our opponents. We only rushed for 52 yards against the Bengals in week 3 and 84 in week 6 against the Chargers.

Teams are daring the Broncos to throw early in games and they can't do it.

Slick
11-08-2016, 03:16 PM
At the time sure if your thinking you have a shot, 9 weeks in and it's clear we have no shot, but yet kubes is like Trevor is playing fine and just has some things to work on.... Yeah okay. Now your pissing me off as a coach. Your telling me a guy is fine who has played poor as hell 4 games in a row.

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w309/slickdonkey7/30926_zpsctw65vuu.jpg (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/slickdonkey7/media/30926_zpsctw65vuu.jpg.html)

Northman
11-08-2016, 03:19 PM
It's a trick question. The correct answer was to bring back Tebow.

Dang,

i messed up.

Northman
11-08-2016, 03:20 PM
he's worse that oaklandraider, at least OR didnt pretend to be a Broncos fan


Yea, im starting to rethink that banning thing of OR but then i remembered that OR said Russell was better than Elway and i cringed. But yea, this guy is equally as bad.

wayninja
11-08-2016, 03:22 PM
At the time sure if your thinking you have a shot, 9 weeks in and it's clear we have no shot

Wait... why is this clear? If you have some prediction machine, can you just chill out until the date that Lynch actually starts, since you know when that will be?

silkamilkamonico
11-08-2016, 03:40 PM
I didn't start the season wanting Trevor benched, I gave him a shot knowing it was far fetched since he was a bum in college. He's had his fair shot.

I look at it like this - Kubes keeps coming out and saying he really likes what Trevor is doing but he needs to be better. He also says he needs to be better in helping Trevor. He has said it a handful of times over the first half of the season and it continues to spiral down. Siemian isn't even a 60% passer in what's supposed to be a QB friendly offense that gets the best out of it's QB's.

It's time Kubes quit talking about it and actually started doing it. Like, next week for starters.

Timmy!
11-08-2016, 03:42 PM
Nostratimmy predicts a certain poster is banned before our current starting QB is benched.

silkamilkamonico
11-08-2016, 03:42 PM
Wait... why is this clear? If you have some prediction machine, can you just chill out until the date that Lynch actually starts, since you know when that will be?

Definitely not clear, but at this point I wouldn't bet one of my paychecks on Denver even making the playoffs, let alone contending for the SuperBowl.

This team has strong points, but it has way too many holes on both sides of the ball that aren't in any way, shape, or form showing that they are getting filled.

Northman
11-08-2016, 03:56 PM
Definitely not clear, but at this point I wouldn't bet one of my paychecks on Denver even making the playoffs, let alone contending for the SuperBowl.

This team has strong points, but it has way too many holes on both sides of the ball that aren't in any way, shape, or form showing that they are getting filled.


The team does have holes, but it has holes everywhere and not everything is directly the result of QB play.

slim
11-08-2016, 04:02 PM
The team does have holes, but it has holes everywhere and not everything is directly the result of QB play.

Sounds like a fun team!

silkamilkamonico
11-08-2016, 04:09 PM
The team does have holes, but it has holes everywhere and not everything is directly the result of QB play.


Very true.

LawDog
11-08-2016, 04:22 PM
Thank you for the context. That is certainly a factor here as well and we'll have to generate something with CJ out. But a couple of those numbers are wrong - I think you were looking at our opponents. We only rushed for 52 yards against the Bengals in week 3 and 84 in week 6 against the Chargers.

Thanks, went back and added corrections. Was looking at NFL.com and they use those colored bar graphs in the game center recaps. Who knew the Broncos wouldn't be the orange one... doesn't drastically change my point though.

Jaded
11-08-2016, 10:08 PM
I don't think the free agents were out there. I like having DT signed, personally.

Kelechi Osemele was out there, just not the year they extended DT.

dogfish
11-08-2016, 10:16 PM
We get it man. You hate Siemian. Here's a challenge, for your next 25 posts in Broncos talk, don't use the words Trevor or Siemian. Go.

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