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BroncoWave
10-30-2016, 11:49 PM
Somehow we are already halfway through the season. Seems like we were just playing the Panthers in week 1, but here we are. Here is where things stand at the moment:

AFC West:

Raiders 6-2 (1-1)
Broncos 6-2 (1-1)
Chiefs 5-2 (2-0)
Chargers 3-5 (1-3)

AFC:

1. Patriots 7-1
2. Raiders 6-2
3. Texans 5-3
4. Steelers 4-3
5. Broncos 6-2
6. Chiefs 5-2

Broncos remaining schedule:

@ Oakland
@ New Orleans
BYE
vs. Kansas City
@ Jacksonville
@ Tennessee
vs. New England
@ Kansas City
vs. Oakland

It's definitely been an interesting first half of the season, but I feel pretty happy to be sitting at 6-2. The AFC wound up being the group of death this year in the NFL, so we have very little margin for error. This game at Oakland next week is our biggest game of the year. Whoever wins will be in the driver's seat for the division. After that, we have a winnable stretch of games that we really need to take advantage of. I think we will have to go at least 11-5 to win the division and more likely 12-4.

So how does everyone feel about the team at the halfway point and how do you see us doing over the back half of the schedule? I, personally, see us going 11-5 with losses at Oakland, vs New England, and at KC. I think we will need to flip one of those two divisional games in our favor to win the division, but I don't see it happening at this point. Worst case I see us very safely in the wildcard though. I'd be really shocked if the AFCW doesn't get 2 teams in. Every other division in the AFC is trash past the division leaders this year.

Jaded
10-30-2016, 11:54 PM
I'm on to Oakland.

#hotaftake

Jaded
10-30-2016, 11:59 PM
They need to try and trade for Thomas, imo, this isn't getting any easier for the offense.

GEM
10-31-2016, 12:16 AM
I'll be Debbie downer... We aren't going anywhere far with this offense. It's nice to be 6-2, but this feels like the fakest 6-2 I've seen in quite a long time. Say we went to the super bowl and the opponent was the Vikings, their D would eat this offense up and spit it out. So I'll enjoy the defense, though they are noticeably worse without Malik and Trevathan against the run, and try not too expect too much. Then I can be completely surprised if they go far.

BroncoWave
10-31-2016, 12:18 AM
I'll be Debbie downer... We aren't going anywhere far with this offense. It's nice to be 6-2, but this feels like the fakest 6-2 I've seen in quite a long time. Say we went to the super bowl and the opponent was the Vikings, their D would eat this offense up and spit it out. So I'll enjoy the defense, though they are noticeably worse without Malik and Trevathan against the run, and try not too expect too much. Then I can be completely surprised if they go far.

I think barring a total collapse we'll make the playoffs by default just because there is a huge dropoff in the AFC past the current top 6, but I tend to agree that this doesn't look like a team that will make a deep playoff run.

On the other hand every other team has deep flaws too except the Pats, so given the right draw in the playoffs we could have as good a chance as anyone.

Hawgdriver
10-31-2016, 12:19 AM
5 road games and 3 tough home games. Combined record of 2d half opponents: 37-22, about same as 10-6. Would be unsurprising to go 2-6 over this stretch to finish season at 8-8 with a back end this brutal.

To make the postseason, Broncos will need to get home wins against Oakland and KC. Will need to beat 2/3 of J-ville, Tennessee, and Saints. Could really use a win on the road at Oak or KC. If they do that, they have a solid shot at postseason at 11-5.

With this defense, you can't count the Broncos out of any game. But they still need to manufacture points. They need to figure out a way to run the ball consistently and get production from the TE position. Siemian can't carry this team behind this line. I wish there was a band-aid fix for the O-line.

Can't say I'm penciling in postseason plans, but this is a championship defense.

GEM
10-31-2016, 12:20 AM
How are the raiders ahead of us? We both have a win and a loss within the division and we both got beat by the falcons.

BroncoWave
10-31-2016, 12:25 AM
How are the raiders ahead of us? We both have a win and a loss within the division and we both got beat by the falcons.

Record against common opponents.

Thus far, our common opponents are Atlanta, Tampa, and San Diego. Denver is 2-2 against those teams and Oakland is 2-1.

MOtorboat
10-31-2016, 03:20 AM
I'll be Debbie downer... We aren't going anywhere far with this offense. It's nice to be 6-2, but this feels like the fakest 6-2 I've seen in quite a long time. Say we went to the super bowl and the opponent was the Vikings, their D would eat this offense up and spit it out. So I'll enjoy the defense, though they are noticeably worse without Malik and Trevathan against the run, and try not too expect too much. Then I can be completely surprised if they go far.

Oh man. Be careful voicing this opinion in writing.

Northman
10-31-2016, 03:45 AM
We are current SB Champs and have a 6-2 record. This year has not been pretty just like last year wasnt. Either way, im enjoying what we have and its interesting to see all the Debbie Downers especially one particular who made it a point to always state how spoiled Bronco fans are and we should just enjoy the success Denver has had. lol

Joel
10-31-2016, 04:02 AM
How are the raiders ahead of us? We both have a win and a loss within the division and we both got beat by the falcons.
I'm more curious how we're 5th in the AFC despite this:



AFC:

1. Patriots 7-1
2. Raiders 6-2
3. Texans 5-3
4. Steelers 4-3
5. Broncos 6-2
6. Chiefs 5-2

Broncos remaining schedule:

@ Oakland
@ New Orleans
BYE
vs. Kansas City
@ Jacksonville
@ Tennessee
vs. New England
@ Kansas City
vs. Oakland
Division, conference and other tiebreaks aren't even a factor for the Texans and Steelers: We're a full game up on the Texans (AND hold the first tiebreak, since we beat them; only way they could be ahead of us would be in a three-way tie where someone else had a higher division/conference winning percentage, so we got eliminated before head-to-heads became relevant.) And even with Pitts bye, 6/8>4/7, so we're ahead of them, too (same applies to KC, despite their perfect AFCW record: That only counts as a TIEBREAK, and we're not tied, we're ahead.)

A lot could depend on whether Smith's actually concussed, and how long he's out if so (not to mention our injuries.) But I do agree with the assessment that it looks like the AFCW will come down to whoever wins the most games in the Denver-Oakland-KC round robin, so our visit to the Black Holes huge. One of my coworkers has had this game circled all year; rooted for Atlanta against us specifically so the Black Hole game could be for 1st place in the division (though I don't think he planned on losing to KC in the interim; that definitely complicates things, since they're only half a game behind both of us.)

Bottom line is that we host the Cheats and still have both games against KC and Oakland ahead of us, so we control our own destiny. For good or ill; there's no evidence our line will ever hold up this year, and much evidence our QBs and RBs can't hold up behind Swiss cheese any better than Manning, Oz, Anderson and Hillman did last year. That Thomas trade's looking better and better; can we trade for 5 of him?

VonDoom
10-31-2016, 06:44 AM
I'm more curious how we're 5th in the AFC despite this:


Division, conference and other tiebreaks aren't even a factor for the Texans and Steelers: We're a full game up on the Texans (AND hold the first tiebreak, since we beat them; only way they could be ahead of us would be in a three-way tie where someone else had a higher division/conference winning percentage, so we got eliminated before head-to-heads became relevant.) And even with Pitts bye, 6/8>4/7, so we're ahead of them, too (same applies to KC, despite their perfect AFCW record: That only counts as a TIEBREAK, and we're not tied, we're ahead.)



He's showing playoff seeding. Top four teams are the division leaders, regardless of record.

I'm glad you started this thread, Wave. I had an idea to do something like this myself. I'll have more to say later when I sort through some stats.

GEM
10-31-2016, 06:48 AM
We are current SB Champs and have a 6-2 record. This year has not been pretty just like last year wasnt. Either way, im enjoying what we have and its interesting to see all the Debbie Downers especially one particular who made it a point to always state how spoiled Bronco fans are and we should just enjoy the success Denver has had. lol

What's that I hear in the distance? It's sirens. ..the fan police are on their way! Oh goody! :D

NightTerror218
10-31-2016, 06:51 AM
A lot of road games left.....yikes

Timmy!
10-31-2016, 07:04 AM
I'll take 6-2 any day after a superbowl win. If we can get to 8-2 at the bye I like our chances. Next game is huge.

Tned
10-31-2016, 07:38 AM
The Broncos are the first defending SB team to ever start a QB that never threw an NFL pass, or something like that. From the get go there was concern about the offensive line and depth on said line. So, it's not like anyone really thought this was going to be an offensive powerhouse. I think a lot of people, fans and media, thought the Broncos would start 2-2 or 1-3 or so.

I think the Broncos are sitting in a good place. After Osweiler left and the Broncos were left with Sanchez, Siemian and Lynch and then it became clear that Sanchez was the same as always and not a great option, I don't think too many people would be upset if you said "at the halfway point the Broncos will be 6-2."

So, while not always pretty, they've won more than they've lost. Most importantly, the offense at times has shown what could be. There have been what, around 3.5 games out of the 8 where the line has blocked well and the running game has worked. If, and halfway through the year it's a big if, the coaches and players can figure out how to get consistant run blocking and pass protection from this line, then I think we could see improvement in the offense before the playoffs arrive.

Either way, I look at this team overall very similar to last year. A very good to great defense and an average offense.

The Broncos defense is giving up 15 more yards per game, but on the other hand they dropped the points allowed from 18.5 to 17 and that has been against some pretty good QBs/offenses.

So, I'm in no way panicked. No question I would like to see more offensive production, so that if the defense allows 21 or 28 or even 35 points the Broncos still have a chance to win, but as long as the Broncos are still one of the top defenses in the league (and they are), then the team has a chance to win every weekend, as long as the offense isn't a turnover machine.

Northman
10-31-2016, 09:18 AM
What's that I hear in the distance? It's sirens. ..the fan police are on their way! Oh goody! :D

Oh, im not asking you to change your tune or turn in your fan card. I just think its funny that all of a sudden people are surprised by the offensive woes when they were just as bad last year.

tomjonesrocks
10-31-2016, 09:19 AM
I'll be Debbie downer... We aren't going anywhere far with this offense. It's nice to be 6-2, but this feels like the fakest 6-2 I've seen in quite a long time. Say we went to the super bowl and the opponent was the Vikings, their D would eat this offense up and spit it out. So I'll enjoy the defense, though they are noticeably worse without Malik and Trevathan against the run, and try not too expect too much. Then I can be completely surprised if they go far.

I have some company it seems. I was annoyed as I've ever been I think after a Broncos win yesterday.

I'm stunned by how atrocious the offense has played. At the outset of the year it looked like we had improved the O-line significantly and were well poised to run. Heuerman would help solidify the TE spot, and our game manager QB had the arm to get the ball to his 2 Pro Bowl WRs when needed on 3rd downs. It seemed like a reasonable formula.

Turns out Heuerman is a bust and our O-Line, despite a talent upgrade, is as atrocious as ever. Siemian was and has been -terrible- of late - whether that's injury related or not he has been awful. And then turnovers on top of it?

Good grief.

BroncoWave
10-31-2016, 09:20 AM
I'm more curious how we're 5th in the AFC despite this:


Division, conference and other tiebreaks aren't even a factor for the Texans and Steelers: We're a full game up on the Texans (AND hold the first tiebreak, since we beat them; only way they could be ahead of us would be in a three-way tie where someone else had a higher division/conference winning percentage, so we got eliminated before head-to-heads became relevant.) And even with Pitts bye, 6/8>4/7, so we're ahead of them, too (same applies to KC, despite their perfect AFCW record: That only counts as a TIEBREAK, and we're not tied, we're ahead.)

A lot could depend on whether Smith's actually concussed, and how long he's out if so (not to mention our injuries.) But I do agree with the assessment that it looks like the AFCW will come down to whoever wins the most games in the Denver-Oakland-KC round robin, so our visit to the Black Holes huge. One of my coworkers has had this game circled all year; rooted for Atlanta against us specifically so the Black Hole game could be for 1st place in the division (though I don't think he planned on losing to KC in the interim; that definitely complicates things, since they're only half a game behind both of us.)

Bottom line is that we host the Cheats and still have both games against KC and Oakland ahead of us, so we control our own destiny. For good or ill; there's no evidence our line will ever hold up this year, and much evidence our QBs and RBs can't hold up behind Swiss cheese any better than Manning, Oz, Anderson and Hillman did last year. That Thomas trade's looking better and better; can we trade for 5 of him?

Wildcard teams get seeded behind division winners in the playoffs, Joel.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
10-31-2016, 09:24 AM
A lot of road games left.....yikes
I think we finish 10-6 or 11-5.

tomjonesrocks
10-31-2016, 09:45 AM
I think we finish 10-6 or 11-5.

If Denver changes nothing and doesn't improve at all in any area, they still face the Jags and Titans in the coming weeks so that should mean a floor of 8-8.

Oakland - they'll be underdogs in both games - and will be deep dogs against NE even at home. Can they somehow split KC and pull out a win at New Orleans to get to 10-6?

That certainly seems possible, but I think it's just as likely Denver loses embarrassingly at Oakland and finds a way to lose at NO in the coming weeks. Then sitting at 6-4, I think this team winds up trying to get Lynch ready for KC after the bye in an attempt to salvage the season. Just a gut feeling.

VonDoom
10-31-2016, 10:13 AM
Smyth did some of the stat work for me already. Take a look at this:

Patrick Smyth ‏@psmyth12 55m55 minutes ago

Broncos' offense thru 8 games: 2016: 24.3 PPG / 2015: 24.0 PPG
Broncos' defense thru 8 games: 2016: 17.0 PPG / 2015: 17.4 PPG

GEM
10-31-2016, 10:15 AM
Oh, im not asking you to change your tune or turn in your fan card. I just think its funny that all of a sudden people are surprised by the offensive woes when they were just as bad last year.

No one is surprised, it's more along the lines of adding guys like Okung and Stephenson and our line looks mostly worse than last year. We have a qb who is in his first year starting and is playing with shadows because this line can't run protect, can't pass protect and he's getting the hell beat out of him. He doesn't have the ability to read a defense like Manning, he's just not there and he may never be. We don't have a long game, because he doesn't have the time for it to set up. We don't have an intermediate game because he somehow doesn't see guys coming in from the sides and throws int's or almost int's. Just a lot of problems and our defense just isn't as good as it was last season....they're still great, but against the run, there's definitely issues. Being on the field 60-75% of the time is doing them no favors.

And it's not all of the sudden, a ton of posters have been saying since last year that the offense has been terrible.

Northman
10-31-2016, 10:15 AM
Smyth did some of the stat work for me already. Take a look at this:

Patrick Smyth ‏@psmyth12 55m55 minutes ago

Broncos' offense thru 8 games: 2016: 24.3 PPG / 2015: 24.0 PPG
Broncos' defense thru 8 games: 2016: 17.0 PPG / 2015: 17.4 PPG


Yea, Its not much different and this is without a HOF QB at the helm.

Northman
10-31-2016, 10:16 AM
And it's not all of the sudden, a ton of posters have been saying since last year that the offense has been terrible.

I know, i was one of them and everyone kept telling me to relax and so i did and we won the SB. lol

slim
10-31-2016, 10:18 AM
Smyth did some of the stat work for me already. Take a look at this:

Patrick Smyth ‏@psmyth12 55m55 minutes ago

Broncos' offense thru 8 games: 2016: 24.3 PPG / 2015: 24.0 PPG
Broncos' defense thru 8 games: 2016: 17.0 PPG / 2015: 17.4 PPG

This is what I have seen as well. This team is exactly like last years team....there is no difference.

Hawgdriver
10-31-2016, 10:23 AM
I know, i was one of them and everyone kept telling me to relax and so i did and we won the SB. lol

Right? Team is on pace for playoffs and has the type of team that can make a deep run once there. Last year shows us that even when we have major concerns, it's reasonable as a fan to have faith and enjoy the ride.

Buff
10-31-2016, 10:31 AM
My glass half full take is that we are good enough to compete with and beat every team in the league. Our style lends itself to winning ugly.

While the offense is a concern, I used to get equally frustrated with our offensive style under Manning where we were incapable of picking up any short yardage situations, and totally reliant on the finesse passing game... So in that regard - we are better suited to keep teams off balance with our current roster. I can remember being jealous of the Seahawks roster construction where Russ could pick up hidden yardage with his legs, or his arm, or they could hand it off - and they were just a pesky team that was hard to beat... We have essentially followed that blueprint and become that team.

The upside is that we should hardly ever get blown out and we'll be in almost every game. The downside is that you really have to grind out wins and you rarely run away with any game.

I'm not overly confident in this team but at the same time, we're built in such a way that is conducive to playoff success so anything is possible.

VonDoom
10-31-2016, 10:41 AM
I checked our basic statistics for the first half of this year and where we finished the regular season last year (it was too hard to find specifically where we ranked after eight games last year, so I just went with the final totals):

2016 offense - 326.4 ypg (27th), 221.6 passing ypg (28th), 104.8 rushing ypg (20th), 24.3 ppg (13th)
2015 offense - 355.5 ypg (16th), 248.1 passing ypg (14th), 107.4 rushing ypg (17th), 22.2 ppg (19th)

Funny that our total offense is down, but our ppg is up more than 2 ppg. Our defense has something to do with that for sure, but we also had a bunch of defensive scores last year, as you will remember, so I figure it probably evens out.

2016 defense - 301.3 ypg (3rd), 183.9 passing ypg (1st), 117.4 rushing ypg (24th), 17.0 ppg (5th)
2015 defense - 283.1 ypg (1st), 199.6 passing ypg (1st), 83.6 rushing ypg (3rd), 18.5 ppg (4th)

The biggest thing that jumps out there is something we've all talked about this year - run defense. We're similar in so many ways to last year's defense, but that's 33.8 more rushing yards per game allowed, which will be a big issue going forward if we can't correct it.

My personal thoughts - the offense still looks mediocre at best, which is a shame given that we thought we'd see a lot of improvement there. Siemian has been fine, but I don't see him as a long term answer. Our line is either just plain not good or needs more time to work as a unit (it's hard to throw five guys together and expect them to be seamless, though I did expect better than what we've seen). That dovetails into the running game. Kubiak called it "non existent" after yesterday. That's one thing we are supposed to be able to do this year and it's just not happening the way it should, at least consistently.

On defense, our passing defense is as good as ever. We've faced some real good QB's this year and have held them all significantly under their season averages. The run defense is a different story, as noted above. It's hard to do what we do best (rush the passer and cover WR's one on one) when we're being gashed in the run game and the opponent has second and four, third and one type situations.

My concerns for the second half of this year are that we have a lot of hard games coming up, many against our own division (which I truly think is the best in football). We are still a good team, though, and our defense will keep us in any game and give us a chance to win. It's a formula that worked last year, but as I've said numerous times this year, it's not an easily repeatable formula year after year. I don't expect a repeat Super Bowl but then again I never did. I'd just love to stick to to Oakland and KC yet again and win this division. After that, anything can happen.

Hawgdriver
10-31-2016, 10:52 AM
I checked our basic statistics for the first half of this year and where we finished the regular season last year (it was too hard to find specifically where we ranked after eight games last year, so I just went with the final totals):

2016 offense - 326.4 ypg (27th), 221.6 passing ypg (28th), 104.8 rushing ypg (20th), 24.3 ppg (13th)
2015 offense - 355.5 ypg (16th), 248.1 passing ypg (14th), 107.4 rushing ypg (17th), 22.2 ppg (19th)

Funny that our total offense is down, but our ppg is up more than 2 ppg. Our defense has something to do with that for sure, but we also had a bunch of defensive scores last year, as you will remember, so I figure it probably evens out.

I read the ppg comparison, stopped, and thought to myself, 'but 24.3 ppg benefits from 3 defensive scores!' Then I pulled up pro football reference to check last year, and it came back to me. Through 8 games last year, there were 2 Talib pick 6's and 1 Roby fumble return. Plus a Malik Jackson safety.

Then I came back, read that you recalled those scores and figured it evened out. . . :laugh: you nailed it!

Hawgdriver
10-31-2016, 10:56 AM
If this Denver team could generate more obvious passing situations for opponents earlier in the game, it would be a remarkable team with the expectation of winning a SB. Just wish they could find a way to generate that point delta earlier.

pnbronco
10-31-2016, 10:56 AM
Smyth did some of the stat work for me already. Take a look at this:

Patrick Smyth ‏@psmyth12 55m55 minutes ago

Broncos' offense thru 8 games: 2016: 24.3 PPG / 2015: 24.0 PPG
Broncos' defense thru 8 games: 2016: 17.0 PPG / 2015: 17.4 PPG

Wow I didn't realize how close they were to last year.

This team seems to just seems to play better when they know what's at stake. I don't really think they though that SD could beat them, plus it being a short week and Kubes having to go to the hospital was all major factors. I don't think anyone really thought Atlanta was that good, so again they just didn't put their best foot forward.

I will know a lot more about this team after next Sunday. They know that the Raiders are good....man that's tough to say, but they know that this is for being 1st in the division. Von just has a way of kicking things into a higher gear when the stakes are big. Plus Ware will be in better form by then...hopefully Marshall will be back and so will Talib. Booker butt will have healed from being chewed out about trying to do too much and not protecting the ball. This was a good week to make so many mistakes and find a way to over come them, but not make them next week.

Oh one other thing...what happened to our FB? I noticed that he had that protection thing on his right hand/arm. This had to affect the way he blocks...I would think.

Northman
10-31-2016, 11:01 AM
Wow I didn't realize how close they were to last year.

This team seems to just seems to play better when they know what's at stake. I don't really think they though that SD could beat them, plus it being a short week and Kubes having to go to the hospital was all major factors. I don't think anyone really thought Atlanta was that good, so again they just didn't put their best foot forward.

I will know a lot more about this team after next Sunday. They know that the Raiders are good....man that's tough to say, but they know that this is for being 1st in the division. Von just has a way of kicking things into a higher gear when the stakes are big. Plus Ware will be in better form by then...hopefully Marshall will be back and so will Talib. Booker butt will have healed from being chewed out about trying to do too much and not protecting the ball. This was a good week to make so many mistakes and find a way to over come them, but not make them next week.


Its probably a combination of what you stated plus just a bit of luck and opportunity. I think back to the Chiefs game in Arrowhead last year where the kickoff is fumbled by Charles and Roby runs it in with almost no time left. Or remember back in 2011 when the Bears RB ran out of bounds and stopped the clock for us giving us a chance to win that game. Sometimes lucky bounces happen and for us last year we had a lot of good luck to go with the great attributes the team does have and it all just clicked enough to help get a championship. Whether or not we find enough of those lucky bounces this year will remain to be seen but anything is possible.

CoachChaz
10-31-2016, 11:04 AM
There is a reason why people remember names like Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer. It's because teams dont win Super Bowls with mediocre QB play and excellent defense very often. The whole "we did it last year, so we can do it this year" routine is false hope. Football is an ever evolving sport and things just dont always work the same year after year...especially repeats.

I'm sure we'll still finish with 10 wins despite our miserable offense, but without a lot of luck, I dont see a deep playoff run. The quandary our offense is in is our line is bad and our QB isnt very good. Yes...he is a game manager...nothing more. Even behind the Cowboys line, Siemian would never be atop 10 QB. So, we can entertain fantasy trades for Thomas or Staley or Romo, but the process has to continue and Elway needs to find a way to get much better OL in to camp.

I remember the days when local and national sports fans and pundits mocked the Cowboys for drafting stud offensive linemen 3 years in a row. Maybe John should take a note.

VonDoom
10-31-2016, 11:06 AM
Oh one other thing...what happened to our FB? I noticed that he had that protection thing on his right hand/arm. This had to affect the way he blocks...I would think.

They didn't really talk about the Janovich injury during the week - I think it ended up affecting him more than they had thought, having to wear the brace or whatever it was. He played 27 snaps (42%) yesterday, according to Cameron Wolfe, but I think the injury hurt his effectiveness. He was a big part of the game against the Texans.

Northman
10-31-2016, 11:09 AM
Eh, there is always give or take on any given team. Since 2013 the Cowboys have had an Oline that was ranked 15th or better yet they have nothing to show for it. On any given team there will be weaknesses and while Denver's Oline needs some work they have still accomplished more than the vaunted Cowboy Oline. Maybe that changes this year but until it does it really doesnt mean squat in terms of a team's success.

Traveler
10-31-2016, 11:14 AM
I'm not too disturbed where the team is right now. Winning the SB last was great, but it also delayed Kubiak from implementing his total rebuild of the offense.

The struggles right now are simply what should have been done last season if not for the last try at getting to the SB.

Going forward, they must now focus on doing a much better job of bringing in talented offensive linemen, signing a dominant FA DT that can collapse the interior pocket (Poe) and upgrade the ILB spots.

pnbronco
10-31-2016, 11:15 AM
They didn't really talk about the Janovich injury during the week - I think it ended up affecting him more than they had thought, having to wear the brace or whatever it was. He played 27 snaps (42%) yesterday, according to Cameron Wolfe, but I think the injury hurt his effectiveness. He was a big part of the game against the Texans.

Thanks Von....it took away any chance for a pass to go his way also. It looked like he was wearing a open cast from his hand to his elbow on the way out. Knowing this might have them work with the new TE to playing the FB role a little more....

Hawgdriver
10-31-2016, 11:18 AM
we did it last year, so we can do it this year

I like the confidence, but go take your false hopes and promises somewhere else, Coach. We are realists here. This team with this offense? No way.

GEM
10-31-2016, 11:21 AM
They didn't really talk about the Janovich injury during the week - I think it ended up affecting him more than they had thought, having to wear the brace or whatever it was. He played 27 snaps (42%) yesterday, according to Cameron Wolfe, but I think the injury hurt his effectiveness. He was a big part of the game against the Texans.

Read an article on the Denver Post that Janovich has broken 2 facemasks and cracked 2 helmets so far this season. :shocked:

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
10-31-2016, 11:28 AM
Read an article on the Denver Post that Janovich has broken 2 facemasks and cracked 2 helmets so far this season. :shocked:

Yikes, that can't be good for his brain.

OrangeHoof
10-31-2016, 12:37 PM
If someone said we would start the year 6-2 back in August, I'd have taken it. Sucks that we still have half the schedule left and must play the Raiders and Chiefs twice.

capt. Jack
10-31-2016, 12:42 PM
If we go 4-4 we are 10-6, that's not too bad?
Wildcard maybe?

Northman
10-31-2016, 12:43 PM
If we go 4-4 we are 10-6, that's not too bad?
Wildcard maybe?

I think at least 3 AFCW teams make the playoffs this year. IF everything continues the way it has in terms of the AFCW's successes.

Tned
10-31-2016, 12:47 PM
Oh, im not asking you to change your tune or turn in your fan card. I just think its funny that all of a sudden people are surprised by the offensive woes when they were just as bad last year.

Especially since this year we have a first year starter and a rookie backing him up at QB along with new O line components, when last year we had a HOF QB and the supposed $72 million heir apparent.

The Glue Factory
10-31-2016, 12:47 PM
Yikes, that can't be good for his brain.

You oughta see what the other guyses brains look like. :scared:

wayninja
10-31-2016, 12:58 PM
Smyth did some of the stat work for me already. Take a look at this:

Patrick Smyth ‏@psmyth12 55m55 minutes ago

Broncos' offense thru 8 games: 2016: 24.3 PPG / 2015: 24.0 PPG
Broncos' defense thru 8 games: 2016: 17.0 PPG / 2015: 17.4 PPG

I'd like to see this more fleshed out. I mean, I thought I heard during the broadcast that 40% of our points are coming either directly from the defense or as a result of turnovers. The aggregated numbers may not paint the full picture.

edit; I responded before finishing the thread... looks like this was looked into a bit more. Would still be nice to see the numbers

BroncoWave
10-31-2016, 01:12 PM
I think at least 3 AFCW teams make the playoffs this year. IF everything continues the way it has in terms of the AFCW's successes.

I'd be really surprised if both wild cards don't come from the west this year.

Tned
10-31-2016, 01:13 PM
I'd like to see this more fleshed out. I mean, I thought I heard during the broadcast that 40% of our points are coming either directly from the defense or as a result of turnovers. The aggregated numbers may not paint the full picture.

edit; I responded before finishing the thread... looks like this was looked into a bit more. Would still be nice to see the numbers

Should be easy to figure. They said we are scoring on 70% of them, so see how many turnovers and figure 70% were either 7 or 3, maybe go with 5 points x (turnovers * .7) and that should get close.

Tned
10-31-2016, 01:15 PM
I'd be really surprised if both wild cards don't come from the west this year.

Unless they get screwed. If they happen to be a three way tie for the 5th wild card, then they first toss out one of the division teams. This happen to us or another AFC West team a few years ago (maybe 7 or so). The two AFC West teams would have taken the two wild card spots on tie breakers if they were in different divisions, but due to the tie breaker rules one of the teams got screwed.

NightTrainLayne
10-31-2016, 01:17 PM
Smyth did some of the stat work for me already. Take a look at this:

Patrick Smyth ‏@psmyth12 55m55 minutes ago

Broncos' offense thru 8 games: 2016: 24.3 PPG / 2015: 24.0 PPG
Broncos' defense thru 8 games: 2016: 17.0 PPG / 2015: 17.4 PPG

And Manning and the offense seemed to regress after Manning's injury in game 8 as the season went on. Especially after the Green Bay game, which was game 7 (29 points).

In other words, our defense is playing well, and has room for improvement I think.

Also, the offense should improve as the season goes on, everything else being equal, but if not, it measures well against last year's offense.

No need to panic.

BroncoWave
10-31-2016, 01:21 PM
I think the schedule is our biggest enemy down the stretch. Really only 3 cupcakes left, and those are all road games. I think 10-6 will be good enough for the wildcard though. I don't see teams like the Bills, Ravens, Bengals, on Colts hitting that number. 9-7 is where we would have to start sweating, but if we go 3-5 down the stretch, we probably aren't a contender anyway.

MOtorboat
10-31-2016, 01:52 PM
I'd be really surprised if both wild cards don't come from the west this year.

The AFC West is the best division in football right now. Hopefully, Denver can pull out enough wins to get to the dance. Then anything can happen.

BroncoWave
10-31-2016, 01:54 PM
The AFC West is the best division in football right now. Hopefully, Denver can pull out enough wins to get to the dance. Then anything can happen.

The one thing that could throw a wrench in it I guess is if one of these 4-4 teams gets hot and rips off 6-7 wins to finish the year and the AFCW all beats up on each other.

Tned
10-31-2016, 01:58 PM
I think the schedule is our biggest enemy down the stretch. Really only 3 cupcakes left, and those are all road games. I think 10-6 will be good enough for the wildcard though. I don't see teams like the Bills, Ravens, Bengals, on Colts hitting that number. 9-7 is where we would have to start sweating, but if we go 3-5 down the stretch, we probably aren't a contender anyway.

And, if the Broncos go 3-5 down the stretch, as you say, it will be proof they aren't contenders and not capable of winning a playoff game (not to mention possibly three) on the road.

VonDoom
10-31-2016, 02:00 PM
The one thing that could throw a wrench in it I guess is if one of these 4-4 teams gets hot and rips off 6-7 wins to finish the year and the AFCW all beats up on each other.

Hopefully we're the team that does the beating up. We could feasibly go 3-1 against the Raiders and Chiefs. Won't be easy, but I don't think either of them is inherently better than us.

Taking a look at their schedules, the Raiders seem to have it easier. The Chiefs in their last nine games have road games against the Panthers (who might have woken up, hopefully), the Falcons, us and the Chargers. They also plays us and the Raiders at home. The Raiders meanwhile play three of their final four games on the road against the other teams in their division.

dogfish
10-31-2016, 04:51 PM
And Manning and the offense seemed to regress after Manning's injury in game 8 as the season went on. Especially after the Green Bay game, which was game 7 (29 points).

In other words, our defense is playing well, and has room for improvement I think.

Also, the offense should improve as the season goes on, everything else being equal, but if not, it measures well against last year's offense.

No need to panic.


If someone said we would start the year 6-2 back in August, I'd have taken it.

that was my initial response-- if i'd told you before the season started that we'd be 6-2 halfway through, almost all of you would have taken that given what we knew about the team then. . . which really, isn't that much different from what we know now. . . we have an all-world defense, even if they're not as stout against the run. . . the offense is undermanned, led by raw young QBs, and very much a work in progress. . .

dogfish
10-31-2016, 05:03 PM
There is a reason why people remember names like Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer. It's because teams dont win Super Bowls with mediocre QB play and excellent defense very often. The whole "we did it last year, so we can do it this year" routine is false hope. Football is an ever evolving sport and things just dont always work the same year after year...especially repeats.

I'm sure we'll still finish with 10 wins despite our miserable offense, but without a lot of luck, I dont see a deep playoff run. The quandary our offense is in is our line is bad and our QB isnt very good. Yes...he is a game manager...nothing more. Even behind the Cowboys line, Siemian would never be atop 10 QB. So, we can entertain fantasy trades for Thomas or Staley or Romo, but the process has to continue and Elway needs to find a way to get much better OL in to camp.

I remember the days when local and national sports fans and pundits mocked the Cowboys for drafting stud offensive linemen 3 years in a row. Maybe John should take a note.

i agree a thousand percent with the latter comments-- i absolutely think upgrading the O-line talent should and needs to be priority number one going into the off-season, regardless of how this year finishes up. . . it's an area where the front office has dropped the ball pretty badly-- IMO, jaded is right, and it's time to overhaul their entire philosophy when it comes to scouting and drafting OLs. . .

i don't fully agree that "The whole 'we did it last year, so we can do it this year' routine is false hope."

i'm sure not saying we will, but i don't see why it's not possible. . . who's clearly better than us in the AFC right now, aside from new england? and we match up well with them, and have had plenty of recent success against them. . . if we beat them with osweiler, beating them with siemian isn't impossible. . . seattle was a boneheaded play call away from potentially repeating with a team built on defense, and that's obviously the same model we're following-- we're just a couple years behind, and we took os instead of russell wilson. . .

granted, i really don't expect us to do it, because it is damn hard to accomplish. . . then again, nobody thought we were title contenders half way through last season, either. . . there's a lot of football still to be played, and i won't count out this defense or this coaching staff. . . i'm going to enjoy the ride either way. . . the super bowl afterglow is nice enough, but i'm even happier to finally have a defense that gives us a chance to win every single week. . .

:defense:

Buff
10-31-2016, 05:17 PM
There is a reason why people remember names like Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer. It's because teams dont win Super Bowls with mediocre QB play and excellent defense very often. The whole "we did it last year, so we can do it this year" routine is false hope. Football is an ever evolving sport and things just dont always work the same year after year...especially repeats.

I'm sure we'll still finish with 10 wins despite our miserable offense, but without a lot of luck, I dont see a deep playoff run. The quandary our offense is in is our line is bad and our QB isnt very good. Yes...he is a game manager...nothing more. Even behind the Cowboys line, Siemian would never be atop 10 QB. So, we can entertain fantasy trades for Thomas or Staley or Romo, but the process has to continue and Elway needs to find a way to get much better OL in to camp.

I remember the days when local and national sports fans and pundits mocked the Cowboys for drafting stud offensive linemen 3 years in a row. Maybe John should take a note.

Let me know when Dallas wins a single playoff game - until then, I'm not sure we need to aspire to follow their model.

Not to totally invalidate this POV - because clearly we would benefit from improved OL play - but when you zoom out for a second and take a macro view of the league - none of the best teams are allocating a ton of resources to OL play - whether it's NE, Seattle, Pittsburgh, GB - none of them are investing in stud top-tier OL.

Furthermore - we have among the best defenses and WR corps in the entire league... So I think this armchair viewpoint that many have that goes something like, "Why can't we just improve the OL? It's been a problem for a while now?" is overly simplistic and ignores the fact that we won a SB by allocating our resources elsewhere - and many of the other elite teams seem to follow a similar roster construction model.

CrazyHorse
10-31-2016, 08:37 PM
As long as we sweep the remaining divisional opponents and beat the Patriots I'll be quite satisfied.

BroncoWave
10-31-2016, 08:38 PM
Let me know when Dallas wins a single playoff game - until then, I'm not sure we need to aspire to follow their model.

Not to totally invalidate this POV - because clearly we would benefit from improved OL play - but when you zoom out for a second and take a macro view of the league - none of the best teams are allocating a ton of resources to OL play - whether it's NE, Seattle, Pittsburgh, GB - none of them are investing in stud top-tier OL.

Furthermore - we have among the best defenses and WR corps in the entire league... So I think this armchair viewpoint that many have that goes something like, "Why can't we just improve the OL? It's been a problem for a while now?" is overly simplistic and ignores the fact that we won a SB by allocating our resources elsewhere - and many of the other elite teams seem to follow a similar roster construction model.

Could not agree more. I just have to laugh at the people who say we should follow Dallas' model. As if that has led them to any success at all in the last 20 years? New England and Seattle have both had shaky lines in recent years too as you have said. While it would be nice to have a good o-line, I'm not sure what other area of the team I'd want to take away from to do it.

BroncoWave
10-31-2016, 08:39 PM
As long as we sweep the remaining divisional opponents and beat the Patriots I'll be quite satisfied.

I don't think you're going to be satisfied then. That would be a monumental task.

NightTerror218
10-31-2016, 10:32 PM
As long as we win division i am happy. Then go into playoffs with a healthy team and cj.

CrazyHorse
10-31-2016, 10:47 PM
I'll be Debbie downer... We aren't going anywhere far with this offense. It's nice to be 6-2, but this feels like the fakest 6-2 I've seen in quite a long time. Say we went to the super bowl and the opponent was the Vikings, their D would eat this offense up and spit it out. So I'll enjoy the defense, though they are noticeably worse without Malik and Trevathan against the run, and try not too expect too much. Then I can be completely surprised if they go far.

Did you watch the Bears game. Their offensive line is worse than ours.

BroncoWave
10-31-2016, 10:49 PM
I don't think there is a great team in the NFC this year. Dallas looks like the best team, but they have squeaked out a lot of close ones. There is no Panthers/Seahawks type juggernaut from what I've seen this year. So that would bode well if we could somehow sneak our way into the Super Bowl again.

Jaded
10-31-2016, 11:19 PM
I don't know how anyone can watch Denver's OL and turn their nose up at Dallas model.

"Sure it'd be nice to run any kind of play you want but **** that!"

BroncoWave
10-31-2016, 11:21 PM
I don't know how anyone can watch Denver's OL and turn their nose up at Dallas model.

"Sure it'd be nice to run any kind of play you want but **** that!"

Because Dallas has won literally nothing using that model. They look much better this year, but stocking up on o-linemen hasn't exactly had them rolling in playoff wins thus far.

Jaded
10-31-2016, 11:35 PM
Because Dallas has won literally nothing using that model. They look much better this year, but stocking up on o-linemen hasn't exactly had them rolling in playoff wins thus far.

That's fine, you copy who you want and I'll copy who I want but it's not like this model has been in effect for decades. Dallas OL began to emerge in '14 and aside from their RT they're all young. Their defense is horrible, Bryant and Romo are always injured, their QB/RB are rookies yet you wouldn't know it due almost entirely off the strength of the OL.

Jaded
10-31-2016, 11:37 PM
Btw, I'm not saying build an OL at the expense to all else, neither has Dallas.

BroncoWave
10-31-2016, 11:39 PM
That's fine, you copy who you want and I'll copy who I want but it's not like this model has been in effect for decades. Dallas OL began to emerge in '14 and aside from their RT they're all young. Their defense is horrible, Bryant and Romo are always injured, their QB/RB are rookies yet you wouldn't know it due almost entirely off the strength of the OL.

Dallas is 11th in total defense and 7th in defensive PPG this year.

Jaded
11-01-2016, 12:16 AM
Dallas is 11th in total defense and 7th in defensive PPG this year.

Cool.

BroncoWave
11-01-2016, 12:18 AM
Cool.

#styledon
#hype
#jadedisbroncowavesbitch
#yashistrash

Jaded
11-01-2016, 12:24 AM
#styledon
#hype
#jadedisbroncowavesbitch
#yashistrash

#iknowyouarebutwhatami?

Joel
11-01-2016, 12:39 AM
Wildcard teams get seeded behind division winners in the playoffs, Joel.
Ah, right; I'm still struggling with the idea the Raiders are nominally "ahead" of us when we haven't played and share equal overall and division records. They're half a game better against common opponents, but 2011 was the last time that even came close to mattering.

Still hard to take Oakland seriously though; if the Bolts are better than their record, the Raiders aren't as good as theirs. They've squeaked out a lot of games against AWFUL teams that should be no challenge for any legit contender (e.g. they needed OT to beat the Bucs yesterday, an all-or-nothing 2PAT to avoid OT and secure the win against New Orleans Brees, and one of SDs trademark 4th qtr collapses to win that game.)

On the other hand, if the Bears can beat the Vikings anything's possible; it's not like we're exactly shocking the world again right now.

BroncoWave
11-01-2016, 12:49 AM
Ah, right; I'm still struggling with the idea the Raiders are nominally "ahead" of us when we haven't played and share equal overall and division records. They're half a game better against common opponents, but 2011 was the last time that even came close to mattering.

Still hard to take Oakland seriously though; if the Bolts are better than their record, the Raiders aren't as good as theirs. They've squeaked out a lot of games against AWFUL teams that should be no challenge for any legit contender (e.g. they needed OT to beat the Bucs yesterday, an all-or-nothing 2PAT to avoid OT and secure the win against New Orleans Brees, and one of SDs trademark 4th qtr collapses to win that game.)

On the other hand, if the Bears can beat the Vikings anything's possible; it's not like we're exactly shocking the world again right now.

Other than the Pats, I really don't think there is a great team this year. This truly is a year where almost any team could beat any other team. I think the game against Oakland might as well be a tossup.

Joel
11-01-2016, 12:52 AM
I don't know how anyone can watch Denver's OL and turn their nose up at Dallas model.

"Sure it'd be nice to run any kind of play you want but **** that!"
It's frankly excruciating; again, I console myself with the knowledge (other) Cowboys fans must feel the same way watching our D. Who knew it was easier to find a DOZEN PRO BOWLERS on D than HALF a dozen DECENT linemen?

We pat ourselves on the back for winning a SB solely because of an elite front seven stuffing all runners and forcing strip-sacks and desperate throws from all passers, but don't seem to realize everyone else is allowed to do that, too. The difference is, everyone else doesn't have an elite front seven: They all just LOOK like one against our "blockers."

It worked ONCE, by the skin of our teeth and the grace of Phillips, but if that's our long term MODEL we donn't need Peyton Manning: We need ELI, and David Tyree (i.e. a QB who can shrug off three or four stud pass rushers on a single play, set and launch a prayer that a receiver runs under and miraculously catches.)

MOtorboat
11-01-2016, 01:40 AM
It's frankly excruciating; again, I console myself with the knowledge (other) Cowboys fans must feel the same way watching our D. Who knew it was easier to find a DOZEN PRO BOWLERS on D than HALF a dozen DECENT linemen?

We pat ourselves on the back for winning a SB solely because of an elite front seven stuffing all runners and forcing strip-sacks and desperate throws from all passers, but don't seem to realize everyone else is allowed to do that, too. The difference is, everyone else doesn't have an elite front seven: They all just LOOK like one against our "blockers."

It worked ONCE, by the skin of our teeth and the grace of Phillips, but if that's our long term MODEL we donn't need Peyton Manning: We need ELI, and David Tyree (i.e. a QB who can shrug off three or four stud pass rushers on a single play, set and launch a prayer that a receiver runs under and miraculously catches.)

Jesus Effing Christ.

Now he's complaining about how Denver won the Super Bowl.

Joel
11-01-2016, 02:03 AM
Jesus Effing Christ.

Now he's complaining about how Denver won the Super Bowl.
You really need to do something about that Selective Reading thing.

GEM
11-01-2016, 10:19 AM
Jesus Effing Christ.

Now he's complaining about how Denver won the Super Bowl.

:confused: I didn't get that at all.

Northman
11-01-2016, 10:35 AM
:confused: I didn't get that at all.

To be fair Joel's post does seem pretty patronizing about the whole thing. Its almost like a backhanded insult to us being Champions as if the team should feel bad about winning the way they did. Im not sure why anyone would be upset that we won the SB after not winning one for over 15 years. In a perfect world not all teams can be the Patriots (unless of course you feel they are cheaters and won all the SB's in that fashion) and win a multitude of SB's. Yes Joel, im going to pat myself on the back as a fan and pat the player's backs for going out and destroying a team that was offensively superior to our own last year. And yes, i will accept that it may only happen once by the skin of our teeth because getting to SB's is tough already as it is no matter how good your Oline, QB, RB, Coach, etc is. If you want to downplay what the team did last year be my guest, but im going to enjoy it still and be proud of that accomplishment. I celebrated this past SB just like i did when the team won a pair in the late 90's.

CoachChaz
11-01-2016, 10:50 AM
Any team that wins a Super Bowl has more than their fair share of luck going their way quite a few times during that season. We were no different from any other Champions

7DnBrnc53
11-01-2016, 12:52 PM
In a perfect world not all teams can be the Patriots (unless of course you feel they are cheaters and won all the SB's in that fashion) and win a multitude of SB's.

For one, when they won three of their SB's, they weren't some offensive juggernaut, either. In fact, their skill position players were less talented than Denver's back then.

Secondly, they were cheaters. They probably still are.

Northman
11-01-2016, 01:02 PM
For one, when they won three of their SB's, they weren't some offensive juggernaut, either.

This actually supports my stance even more. I agree.

Tned
11-01-2016, 01:05 PM
This actually supports my stance even more. I agree.

As a fan, as bad as Manning and the offense played last year, I can't really take pride in winning Super Bowl 50, which is why I bought no memorabilia or anything else to celebrate the hollow win.

GEM
11-01-2016, 01:13 PM
As a fan, as bad as Manning and the offense played last year, I can't really take pride in winning Super Bowl 50, which is why I bought no memorabilia or anything else to celebrate the hollow win.

Whatchooooo talkin bout, Willis?

Mike
11-01-2016, 01:15 PM
As a fan, as bad as Manning and the offense played last year, I can't really take pride in winning Super Bowl 50, which is why I bought no memorabilia or anything else to celebrate the hollow win.

:confused: I don't get that. The defense was historic and a fun to watch. And embarrassing the Panthers after being written off was great.

wayninja
11-01-2016, 01:21 PM
I have to assume he was kidding.

BroncoWave
11-01-2016, 01:23 PM
I have to assume he was kidding.

It seemed pretty clearly sarcastic. There are some gullible mofos on here!

Tned
11-01-2016, 02:01 PM
It seemed pretty clearly sarcastic. There are some gullible mofos on here!

You ain't kidding.

Northman
11-01-2016, 02:15 PM
Sounded like a true Joel post Tned. Well done.

Timmy!
11-01-2016, 02:21 PM
If TJR posted that, I'd believe it.

Tned
11-01-2016, 03:01 PM
Sounded like a true Joel post Tned. Well done.

Billy is my favorite artist of all time...

GEM
11-01-2016, 03:37 PM
I was like....He's all high on Siemian, but didn't feel anything from last year's defense!!! :laugh:

DenBronx
11-01-2016, 04:22 PM
I'll be Debbie downer... We aren't going anywhere far with this offense. It's nice to be 6-2, but this feels like the fakest 6-2 I've seen in quite a long time. Say we went to the super bowl and the opponent was the Vikings, their D would eat this offense up and spit it out. So I'll enjoy the defense, though they are noticeably worse without Malik and Trevathan against the run, and try not too expect too much. Then I can be completely surprised if they go far.

Did you see the Bears demolish the Vikings last night? Jay Cutler and John Foxs Bears. Lol

If it's us vs the Vikings then I got my money on Denver.

wayninja
11-01-2016, 07:14 PM
Did you see the Bears demolish the Vikings last night? Jay Cutler and John Foxs Bears. Lol

If it's us vs the Vikings then I got my money on Denver.

Watching that game looked like us vs the falcons