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BroncoWave
10-30-2016, 06:33 PM
That was a weird-ass game but I will take the win. Much needed victory in the division.

Good:

Roby- He came up huge in relief of Talib. That pick-6 was hype.

Ward- Had a sack and the big pick. He was really good today.

Miller- Wreaked havoc all day. He is so good.

Ware- The D is definitely happy to have him back. He made an impact when he was in there.

CHJ- I don't even remember a pass being thrown his way today.

Crick- Had some huge batted balls today.

Doss- Yeah, I'm putting him here. Made the tip that led to one pick and the game saving play on 4th and goal.

Dixon- Yep, I'm putting him here too. That punt out of his own endzone potentially saved the game too. Clutch.

Sanders/Thomas- They didn't have many chances today, but they made the most of them. They each made some huge catches.

Bad:

The rest of the offense. Siemian was bad, the o-line stunk, Bibbs was awful, Booker was ok but the fumble was killer, and Norwood's stone hands led to a pick. Really ugly day for that unit, especially in the redzone.

Run defense. Gordon gashed us today. As awesome as the pass D was, can't say the same of our run-stopping effort.

Tned
10-30-2016, 06:39 PM
That was a weird-ass game but I will take the win. Much needed victory in the division.

Good:

Roby- He came up huge in relief of Talib. That pick-6 was hype.

Ward- Had a sack and the big pick. He was really good today.

Miller- Wreaked havoc all day. He is so good.

Ware- The D is definitely happy to have him back. He made an impact when he was in there.

CHJ- I don't even remember a pass being thrown his way today.

Crick- Had some huge batted balls today.

Doss- Yeah, I'm putting him here. Made the tip that led to one pick and the game saving play on 4th and goal.

Dixon- Yep, I'm putting him here too. That punt out of his own endzone potentially saved the game too. Clutch.

Sanders/Thomas- They didn't have many chances today, but they made the most of them. They each made some huge catches.

Bad:

The rest of the offense. Siemian was bad, the o-line stunk, Bibbs was awful, Booker was ok but the fumble was killer, and Norwood's stone hands led to a pick. Really ugly day for that unit, especially in the redzone.

Run defense. Gordon gashed us today. As awesome as the pass D was, can't say the same of our run-stopping effort.

Harris got burned badly on about a 40 yard pass down the right side.

VonDoom
10-30-2016, 07:18 PM
Harris got burned badly on about a 40 yard pass down the right side.

He looked like he expected Ward to be there to help on that play. Some bickering after it happened.

VonDoom
10-30-2016, 07:21 PM
Rivers always gives us fits and is like a wraith back there, but I thought we did a good job getting pressure on him. His yardage total was good but his completion percentage was garbage, plus those three picks, and we literally needed all of them. The four down stop at the two yard line was epic as well.

This offense is maddening. On that last real drive, we had a couple of huge plays only to stall out. Other times, Siemian looks like he's throwing the ball into the ocean and I was terrified multiple times of getting a safety. It is a struggle to watch them, though the opportunity is there to get better. I think Mason said we had the ball four times inside the SD 15 yard line and ended up with 13 points (TD, 2 FG, strip sack fumble). Not good enough.

Our run game is still suspect at best, as is our run defense. Those need to be better going forward or playing a game in January is going to be difficult.

Hawgdriver
10-30-2016, 07:22 PM
Great: Roby. The Disciple of Hood balled. That pick 6 was the most playmakingest thing I've seen this year. Without that playmaker making that play...

Bad: Offense. The first half, after the opening drive, was an embarrassment. Too many head scratcher decisions from Siemian, some accuracy concerns. Okung shined his ass. Bibbs not viable. Credit to SD for making Denver look bad, but my gut is that there are real competence and execution issues with this unit.

Slick
10-30-2016, 07:24 PM
Good: Virgil Green! Didn't this guy have the same if not better combine numbers than Julius Thomas?

He is a good blocker but he has the size, speed and hands to be a threat in the passing game. I've always wondered why they haven't used him more.

The passing game could be so much more dynamic if they had something other than Thomas, Sanders or a dump off to a runningback.

The defense causing a frustrated Rivers cry to the officials after every incompletion.


Bad: Our return guys need to stop letting punts peter out inside the 5 yard line. Seems like that's happened several times now. Go catch the damn punt.

Denver would have won by 3 scores without the costly redzone turnovers.

The run game sucked.

ShaneFalco
10-30-2016, 07:48 PM
Why doesnt Taylor or Fowler start over Norwood?


i dont get it. They seem like they have more potential then him, even in the slot.

Nomad
10-30-2016, 07:53 PM
Good......the win.

Nomad
10-30-2016, 07:54 PM
Good: Virgil Green! Didn't this guy have the same if not better combine numbers than Julius Thomas?

He is a good blocker but he has the size, speed and hands to be a threat in the passing game. I've always wondered why they haven't used him more.

The passing game could be so much more dynamic if they had something other than Thomas, Sanders or a dump off to a runningback.

The defense causing a frustrated Rivers cry to the officials after every incompletion.


Bad: Our return guys need to stop letting punts peter out inside the 5 yard line. Seems like that's happened several times now. Go catch the damn punt.

Denver would have won by 3 scores without the costly redzone turnovers.

The run game sucked.

I told Lynch12 we'd miss CJ.

Northman
10-30-2016, 07:59 PM
I told Lynch12 we'd miss CJ.


And apparently you pissed him off when you did that. lol

Nomad
10-30-2016, 08:04 PM
And apparently you pissed him off when you did that. lol

I have a hard time making friends. :D :lol:

GEM
10-30-2016, 08:07 PM
You left out Wolfe who had one hell of a game!

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
10-30-2016, 08:15 PM
I think our line (maybe it's the formations?) has a lot of tells because at times it seems like the opposition knows what's coming.
It could also be chalked up to SD having one more day than we did to prepare.

BroncoWave
10-30-2016, 08:16 PM
You left out Wolfe who had one hell of a game!

It was hard to think of everyone on the defense who played well. They really played a whale of a game today.

Jaded
10-30-2016, 08:18 PM
Todd Davis even had his moments, and he sucks.

Jaded
10-30-2016, 08:19 PM
Think about how good this defense would be in the offense ever got their shit together.

GEM
10-30-2016, 08:23 PM
It was hard to think of everyone on the defense who played well. They really played a whale of a game today.

This could be one of their top performances. If it weren't for this shit ass offense. ..ugh, thinking about out just makes me angry!

Jaded
10-30-2016, 08:24 PM
I think our line (maybe it's the formations?) has a lot of tells because at times it seems like the opposition knows what's coming.
It could also be chalked up to SD having one more day than we did to prepare.

It's not hard to know what's coming, the OL just can't do anything about it. The opposing defense literally has nothing to worry about.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
10-30-2016, 08:24 PM
The catch by DT down the sideline was freaking awesome.

BroncoWave
10-30-2016, 08:27 PM
The catch by DT down the sideline was freaking awesome.

I said this in the game thread, but it just blows my mind that he makes catches like that and drops so many easy ones. He can really be maddening at times but he made some big catches today.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
10-30-2016, 08:28 PM
I said this in the game thread, but it just blows my mind that he makes catches like that and drops so many easy ones. He can really be maddening at times but he made some big catches today.

He makes crazy circus catches because he's not thinking about running with the ball.

CrazyHorse
10-30-2016, 08:38 PM
Good: Virgil Green! Didn't this guy have the same if not better combine numbers than Julius Thomas?

He is a good blocker but he has the size, speed and hands to be a threat in the passing game. I've always wondered why they haven't used him more.

The passing game could be so much more dynamic if they had something other than Thomas, Sanders or a dump off to a runningback.

The defense causing a frustrated Rivers cry to the officials after every incompletion.


Bad: Our return guys need to stop letting punts peter out inside the 5 yard line. Seems like that's happened several times now. Go catch the damn punt.

Denver would have won by 3 scores without the costly redzone turnovers.

The run game sucked.

I think Green had a better 40 and high jump if I remember correctly. I'm not sure his hands are as good as Julius though. He's definitely a better blocker though.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
10-30-2016, 08:40 PM
I think Green had a better 40 and high jump if I remember correctly. I'm not sure his hands are as good as Julius though. He's definitely a better blocker though.

Green had the fastest 40 time of all the TE's at that combine. He was in the 4.5 range

LawDog
10-30-2016, 08:46 PM
Looking forward to getting home and rewatching the game, but man the stadium was rocking. That goal line stand in the fourth was just crazy. Sat in south grandstands under the jumbotron and it was so freaking loud. Hell of a great game for my first in the new stadium. Just an awesome day spent with my kid. As of right now it was all good, no bad.

Hawgdriver
10-30-2016, 08:51 PM
Looking forward to getting home and rewatching the game, but man the stadium was rocking. That goal line stand in the fourth was just crazy. Sat in south grandstands under the jumbotron and it was so freaking loud. Hell of a great game for my first in the new stadium. Just an awesome day spent with my kid. As of right now it was all good, no bad.

What a great memory. Very happy for you.

elsid13
10-30-2016, 09:08 PM
I said this in the game thread, but it just blows my mind that he makes catches like that and drops so many easy ones. He can really be maddening at times but he made some big catches today.

I rather have spent the money on the OL then DT. He's is good player but not worth the salary cap percentage he taking up.

VonDoom
10-30-2016, 09:16 PM
I said this in the game thread, but it just blows my mind that he makes catches like that and drops so many easy ones. He can really be maddening at times but he made some big catches today.

But was it a go route or a back shoulder throw?

MOtorboat
10-30-2016, 09:49 PM
The Good:
Managed to get a win in a game that they almost nearly had to win, a.) to keep pace and b.) because they had already lost at San Diego.

Secondary: Even without Talib, the secondary continued to click. I think they had a pair of interceptions and two or three sacks on blitzes.

T.J. Ward: Had a sack and stepped up in coverage situations in several spots.

Defensive line on pass rush: I thought they got decent pressure today, especially in some very big situations. This defense has a propensity for making big plays in key situations.

Thomas: Made several big catches and had a good day.

The Mediocre:
Backup linebackers and defensive line on rushing plays: Not much you can do with the injuries at linebacker, but the defensive line still struggles against the running game.

The Bad:
The possession at the end of the game backed up to the goalline. You cannot take a timeout there. Can't do it. I don't know who's fault it was, but you took 22 seconds off the clock and allowed the Chargers to have one timeout left.

RedZone: Continue to not be able to score touchdowns. Somehow, this hasn't bitten Denver in the butt.

Trevor Siemian: Not good at all. Continues to struggle with accuracy when throwing past 10 yards.

Offensive line: Bad. Okung continues to baffle me, he has good plays and then really, really bad plays. That holding near the end probably should have been a safety.

Running backs without C.J. Anderson: Not good. Special shout out to training camp warrior Kapri Bibbs.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
10-30-2016, 09:56 PM
I don't know what is up with Sly. I expected him to take a step forward in a contract year, but he seems to be less effective than last year. Combine that with the loss of Danny T who was really good agains the run and also at coverage because of his elite speed, and we are not the same defense

tomjonesrocks
10-30-2016, 10:12 PM
Good......the win.

This is where I'm at.

Enjoy it I guess - but the Raiders are going to bitch-slap this squad as it stands now. Denver does not have an NFL offense at the moment.

This is a bad team with a very good defense until further notice.

Tned
10-30-2016, 10:20 PM
The possession at the end of the game backed up to the goalline. You cannot take a timeout there. Can't do it. I don't know who's fault it was, but you took 22 seconds off the clock and allowed the Chargers to have one timeout left.


I agree the possession wasn't good in that they couldn't get a first down, which isn't entirely surprising being backed up against the goal line, but I think you are mistaken on the timeout. When the Broncos took their timeout, it was after SD had already taken one, so the clock was stopped. The only thing it did was burn one of the Broncos three time outs, which in theory if SD had scored quickly after the punt, the Broncos might have needed to try and match the score.

Anyway, it didn't take 22 seconds off the clock, because the clock was already stopped by the SD time out.

Jaded
10-30-2016, 10:23 PM
MO I thought the backup ILB (Nelson) was better than the starter (Davis). Nelson lost his jock on one pass play and slipped off another tackle, but Davis is just horrible.

NightTerror218
10-30-2016, 10:24 PM
Oline pass blocked decent today. Not much for run blocking.

Siemian looked worse in person than on tv? He was by far worse player on field imo today.

Defense was savage for missing marshall and talib. 4 downs on the 2 yard line and held was so sweet to watch.

MOtorboat
10-30-2016, 10:24 PM
MO I thought the backup ILB (Nelson) was better than the starter (Davis). Nelson lost his jock on one pass play and slipped off another tackle, but Davis is just horrible.

I was specifically referring to the run game. Gordon had one of his best days as a professional.

Jaded
10-30-2016, 10:37 PM
I think it was the play Gordon went over 100 that was right thru Davis gap as he's getting dealt with, this is the play where Nelson had Gordon but slipped the tackle.

BroncoWave
10-30-2016, 10:51 PM
This is where I'm at.

Enjoy it I guess - but the Raiders are going to bitch-slap this squad as it stands now. Denver does not have an NFL offense at the moment.

This is a bad team with a very good defense until further notice.

Ok Joel.

scott.475
10-31-2016, 12:40 AM
Okung gets beat a lot, leading to him holding, leading to penalties. He was supposed to be a goid pickup, but he sure ticks me off. Him getting beat lead to the Trevor fumble.

Booker needs to learn to hang on to the freaking ball.

Hawgdriver
10-31-2016, 12:55 AM
Okung gets beat a lot, leading to him holding, leading to penalties. He was supposed to be a goid pickup, but he sure ticks me off. Him getting beat lead to the Trevor fumble.

Booker needs to learn to hang on to the freaking ball.

Great point. Those two turnovers were as high-leverage as it comes. Game is a way different one if they don't happen--figure maybe 10 points more on the Bronco side of the score, and possibly more obvious passing situations for the Denver D to feast on. The fumble sucked but you figure he's a rookie and he'll learn to secure the ball. But Okung is making a name for himself in Denver in a bad way. If we had to scapegoat one healthy starter for Denver's poor line play, I'm thinking it's Okung. What's up with that dude?

Magnificent Seven
10-31-2016, 01:03 AM
Punter Dixon was awesome today.

MOtorboat
10-31-2016, 03:11 AM
I agree the possession wasn't good in that they couldn't get a first down, which isn't entirely surprising being backed up against the goal line, but I think you are mistaken on the timeout. When the Broncos took their timeout, it was after SD had already taken one, so the clock was stopped. The only thing it did was burn one of the Broncos three time outs, which in theory if SD had scored quickly after the punt, the Broncos might have needed to try and match the score.

Anyway, it didn't take 22 seconds off the clock, because the clock was already stopped by the SD time out.

You're right on the first part. Denver took a timeout after a San Diego timeout. The drive, however, as I said only took 22 seconds off the clock.

Denver was lucky the refs didn't rule the holding in the endzone and that also stopped the clock. Also a problem.

As to that third down pass. Damn. I thought you said he was accurate.

Joel
10-31-2016, 03:33 AM
Okung gets beat a lot, leading to him holding, leading to penalties. He was supposed to be a goid pickup, but he sure ticks me off. Him getting beat lead to the Trevor fumble.

Booker needs to learn to hang on to the freaking ball.
It's baffling: He's always been solid when healthy—until now, when he essentially negotiated himself a "prove it" deal (i.e. at seasons end we either take a $1M cap hit to cut him, or guarantee him $12M each of the next THREE years; not hard to figure out which we'd choose now, since no one's going to murder their cap for three seasons for this kind of "performance.") He's going from "FA steal" to "lucky to make a roster" in a single season. Kinda like Evan Mathis last year, which doesn't exactly inspire confidence we can fix our line any time soon.

Yet Kubiak and Dennisons lines literally EVERYWHERE else—Baltimore, Houston and their first run with Denver—annually gave virtual clinics in dominant blocking.

I'm starting to think Clancy Barone's the weak link: The guy who joined Denver as TE coach in 2009 and has gone back and forth from there to offensive line coach ever since. The one other constant from the last six years? Consistently awful blocking by both linemen and TEs. According to the team site,


During the 2010 season, Barone instructed Denver’s offensive line, tutoring rookie offensive linemen J.D. Walton and Zane Beadles. (http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/coaches/Clancy-Barone/fa486afc-3fa6-4733-9c9d-a497fc0f87d9)
THAT'S what we're counting on to turn Paradis, Garcia, Sambrailo, Schofield and McGovern into starting quality NFL lineman? Yick. Not trying to point fingers, honest, and I realize correlation doesn't equal causation (however suggestively it winks and nods.) Just looking for answers to something... baffling.... :confused:

NightTerror218
10-31-2016, 06:50 AM
Punter Dixon was awesome today.

69 yard punt was a beauty. Feet at back of endzone. His kicks look like shanks in person but they are high and consistent with 45 yards.

Tned
10-31-2016, 07:50 AM
You're right on the first part. Denver took a timeout after a San Diego timeout. The drive, however, as I said only took 22 seconds off the clock.

Denver was lucky the refs didn't rule the holding in the endzone and that also stopped the clock. Also a problem.

As to that third down pass. Damn. I thought you said he was accurate.

I clearly misread your post. The way you were saying they couldn't take a timeout there, I though you were indicating that timeout allowed the Chargers to save a timeout and save 22 seconds, but I see it was several independent thoughts. Agreed that any time you take a timeout after the other team has taken one, it's bad, and what I didn't like was that if SD had scored quickly, the Broncos might have needed it, but when you are backed up on the goal line and up by 8, the most important thing is trying to execute well. It might have been that SD was in a defense that surprised the Broncos (players or coaches) and they wanted to reset with another play.

As to accuracy, nice jab.

I need to wait until coaches film is up in a couple days. From what I remember of the one replay of that, both Sanders and Thomas were well covered and it looked like he was either throwing it away or just trying to fit it into a high, outside spot that maybe DT could get his hands on. Up by 8 in that spot and the most important thing is to not turn the ball over.

P.S. I also though Eli Manning and Rodgers were accurate, but have you seen some of their missed throws this year? What I've consistently said is that if he's graded on the curve that he should be as a first year starter, meaning compare him to how first year starters typically perform, then he's done very well.

Tned
10-31-2016, 07:52 AM
69 yard punt was a beauty. Feet at back of endzone. His kicks look like shanks in person but they are high and consistent with 45 yards.

I'm not sure if it's his kicking motion, or maybe that he doesn't get much hang time, but people on here regularly call 40+ yard balls terrible and shanks and even the announcers have multiple times said, "oh, that's not a good punt" or "that's not what they wanted there" only for it to be a 42 or even 46+ yard punt. I haven't actually timed any, but my sense is that his hang time isn't what it should be more than his distance being short.

VonDoom
10-31-2016, 08:50 AM
I'm not sure if it's his kicking motion, or maybe that he doesn't get much hang time, but people on here regularly call 40+ yard balls terrible and shanks and even the announcers have multiple times said, "oh, that's not a good punt" or "that's not what they wanted there" only for it to be a 42 or even 46+ yard punt. I haven't actually timed any, but my sense is that his hang time isn't what it should be more than his distance being short.

I think Mason said he's up to 7th in the league in net average right now. I know it's cool to hate on the guy, but I don't know what else people want him to do.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
10-31-2016, 09:28 AM
I think Mason said he's up to 7th in the league in net average right now. I know it's cool to hate on the guy, but I don't know what else people want him to do.

The last punt yesterday was impressive

Hawgdriver
10-31-2016, 09:55 AM
I think Mason said he's up to 7th in the league in net average right now. I know it's cool to hate on the guy, but I don't know what else people want him to do.

I'm not wasting brain cycles on this debate--the position of punter is competently filled.

MasterShake
10-31-2016, 09:58 AM
The Good:

The defense played outstanding even while missing some key starters.

Dixon's punting was really good. I still can't believe he booted that one out of his own end zone like that.

The D-Line gets extra props from me. Rivers looked like he was panicking all day and it was nice to see him get up slower and slower as the game went on.

The fact that we got a win from a hot divisional opponent that took us apart a few weeks ago.

Virgil Green, Sanders, and Thomas all had good catches in key situations to keep drives alive.

The Bad:

Red zone offense. 2 TURNOVERS in the red zone was unacceptable.

The run game. You see sparks from Booker on counters and tosses but the up the gut stuff just isn't there.

The O-Line. See the above issues with the running game as well as Trevor having to throw before he was ready. I hate keeping TE in to block when they should be out running routes.

PENALTIES SUCK. Too many, especially at home.


Overall it was a decent game. It's hard to win games in the NFL, especially against an opponent who seems to give you matchup nightmares. Huge win in the division.

Up next... RAIDERS WEEK! Can't wait to get our offense back on track against them. :lol:

slim
10-31-2016, 10:07 AM
This is where I'm at.

Enjoy it I guess - but the Raiders are going to bitch-slap this squad as it stands now. Denver does not have an NFL offense at the moment.

This is a bad team with a very good defense until further notice.

Incorrect.

It is a very good team with a below average offense.

Also, **** the raiders. They ain't bitch slapping shit.

Tned
10-31-2016, 12:59 PM
I think Mason said he's up to 7th in the league in net average right now. I know it's cool to hate on the guy, but I don't know what else people want him to do.

They forget how many fans were calling for Colquitt to be cut the last couple years. We are forgetting how many real shanks Colquitt had. Dixons had a few "not great" punt, but I don't think he's had a single true shank yet, and that's pretty impressive for a rookie.

Mike Hawk
10-31-2016, 02:13 PM
They always end up being weird games everytime we play San Diego.

Tned
10-31-2016, 03:32 PM
I know it was mentioned in the game day thread and possibly in here, but Siemian is regularly throwing to receivers that are short of the sticks on third down. I'm not sure if those are designed plays that are expecting to get the first down with YAC, or if the receiver over the line is covered or if Siemian is making the bad read, but it's happening far too often.

I need to look at gamepass coaches film for this last game, maybe the one before, and look at those third down plays.

NightTerror218
10-31-2016, 05:33 PM
I'm not sure if it's his kicking motion, or maybe that he doesn't get much hang time, but people on here regularly call 40+ yard balls terrible and shanks and even the announcers have multiple times said, "oh, that's not a good punt" or "that's not what they wanted there" only for it to be a 42 or even 46+ yard punt. I haven't actually timed any, but my sense is that his hang time isn't what it should be more than his distance being short.

I have not seem many yards on returns but yesterday he was good. His kicking motion looks like he shanks it but the ball isnt shanked. His average for season is like 45 yards. Which is not great but there are also small returns on them. But his 69 yarder was amazing.

NightTerror218
10-31-2016, 05:38 PM
I know it was mentioned in the game day thread and possibly in here, but Siemian is regularly throwing to receivers that are short of the sticks on third down. I'm not sure if those are designed plays that are expecting to get the first down with YAC, or if the receiver over the line is covered or if Siemian is making the bad read, but it's happening far too often.

I need to look at gamepass coaches film for this last game, maybe the one before, and look at those third down plays.

I think its bad read and focusing on either DT/sanders or immediately hit the check down who is short.

Several times he missed a wide open TE or WR3 who was open and would have gotten a first down and then some. On a few on the 3 and outs from deep in our territory i could see who siemian was staring down WR on one side of the field and watch him throw into double coverage.

BroncoJoe
10-31-2016, 05:47 PM
I find it amazing that people are bashing Siemian for his play. Let's all do a reality check:

7th round selection - probably wouldn't have been picked if not for the Broncos
First year starter, who was 3rd string last year
Never thrown a pass in the NFL before this year
Basically ZERO reps with the 1st or 2nd string offense before TC 2016 - and even then he split reps between Sanchez and Lynch

If you're going to bitch, take it to upper management. Siemian is doing a pretty damn good job IMO considering the above - and I'm sure I'm missing a few other factors.

All the more reason to hate Brock.

Tned
10-31-2016, 06:05 PM
I think its bad read and focusing on either DT/sanders or immediately hit the check down who is short.

Several times he missed a wide open TE or WR3 who was open and would have gotten a first down and then some. On a few on the 3 and outs from deep in our territory i could see who siemian was staring down WR on one side of the field and watch him throw into double coverage.

Ironic that week one, and possibly two, he was spreading the ball all over the place to the point of Sanders and DT complaining.

NightTerror218
10-31-2016, 07:10 PM
Ironic that week one, and possibly two, he was spreading the ball all over the place to the point of Sanders and DT complaining.

I am stating what i saw in the game. I saw a QB who is not and starting NFL quality QB. Looking at the types of throws rivers was making. The placement for his WR and TE. It was night and day.

And how many catches did a TE get in those games? Dude behind yelled "holy shit Siemian knows a TE can catch the ball too after a Green catch.

And i know he is a yound QB. But he looked like he is a late round round pick QB and in over his head. Riley Dixon caught a beautiful pass thrown to nobody.

I am comparing him to Wentz and Dak. They are out playing him and they have less experience, same field time but 1 year less in the system. Look at Cam his first few starts, look at Luck his rookie season. The young QBs who make it in this league show progression. I am not seeing that with Siemian. So shoot me but i do not think he is going to be anything more than A Kyke Orton.

Hawgdriver
10-31-2016, 07:13 PM
I find it amazing that people are bashing Siemian for his play. Let's all do a reality check:

7th round selection - probably wouldn't have been picked if not for the Broncos
First year starter, who was 3rd string last year
Never thrown a pass in the NFL before this year
Basically ZERO reps with the 1st or 2nd string offense before TC 2016 - and even then he split reps between Sanchez and Lynch

If you're going to bitch, take it to upper management. Siemian is doing a pretty damn good job IMO considering the above - and I'm sure I'm missing a few other factors.

All the more reason to hate Brock.

I hope you don't take my comments about Siemian as bashing. I like him. I have faith in him. I think he has the potential to be a starting quarterback over Lynch. I just don't see the actuality of it yet. I'm waiting for it, hoping for it, it's just not there yet. I'm giving him a pass, but given the recent trend I'm justifiably concerned going forward. The line and his shoulder give him some extra wiggle room.

Tned
10-31-2016, 07:28 PM
I am stating what i saw in the game. I saw a QB who is not and starting NFL quality QB. Looking at the types of throws rivers was making. The placement for his WR and TE. It was night and day.

And how many catches did a TE get in those games? Dude behind yelled "holy shit Siemian knows a TE can catch the ball too after a Green catch.

And i know he is a yound QB. But he looked like he is a late round round pick QB and in over his head. Riley Dixon caught a beautiful pass thrown to nobody.

I am comparing him to Wentz and Dak. They are out playing him and they have less experience, same field time but 1 year less in the system. Look at Cam his first few starts, look at Luck his rookie season. The young QBs who make it in this league show progression. I am not seeing that with Siemian. So shoot me but i do not think he is going to be anything more than A Kyke Orton.

Not disagreeing it was a bad game, just said that locking on to Sanders and Thomas is ironic due to them complaining because he was throwing to other receivers first two weeks.

Comparing to Dak and Wentz is exercise in frustration, because they are massive anomalies, which is why BOTH broke rookie record for passes without INT and have been number one story in NFL.

Tned
10-31-2016, 07:32 PM
I hope you don't take my comments about Siemian as bashing. I like him. I have faith in him. I think he has the potential to be a starting quarterback over Lynch. I just don't see the actuality of it yet. I'm waiting for it, hoping for it, it's just not there yet. I'm giving him a pass, but given the recent trend I'm justifiably concerned going forward. The line and his shoulder give him some extra wiggle room.

His first seven games remind me of Brock last year. Enough in first three games to get excited about, then regression that is cause for concern.

There is still a lot of good, considering he has only seven career starts, but as you say, also cause for concern.

He still looks to be Broncos best chance to win now, but unless there is significant improvement, he Will struggle to hold lynch off next year.

Hawgdriver
10-31-2016, 07:42 PM
His first seven games remind me of Brock last year. Enough in first three games to get excited about, then regression that is cause for concern.

There is still a lot of good, considering he has only seven career starts, but as you say, also cause for concern.

He still looks to be Broncos best chance to win now, but unless there is significant improvement, he Will struggle to hold lynch off next year.

100% agree assuming Lynch also matures, which I don't consider a sure thing.

Tned
10-31-2016, 07:47 PM
100% agree assuming Lynch also matures, which I don't consider a sure thing.

Agreed. Lynch had physical tools to be special, but no guarantee he'll be able to make jump to pro game.

tomjonesrocks
10-31-2016, 07:50 PM
100% agree assuming Lynch also matures, which I don't consider a sure thing.

My crystal ball says this year. Denver loses in embarrassing fashion to Oakland, followed by a tough loss in NO. Siemian is unhelpful to terrible in both.

The coaching squad works with Lynch over the bye and he takes over at home vs. the Chiefs with the season on the line.

#nostraTJR

Tned
10-31-2016, 07:54 PM
My crystal ball says this year. Denver loses in embarrassing fashion to Oakland, followed by a tough loss in NO. Siemian is unhelpful to terrible in both.

The coaching squad works with Lynch over the bye and he takes over at home vs. the Chiefs with the season on the line.

#nostraTJR

Man, you are infatuated with Oakland.

BroncoWave
10-31-2016, 08:33 PM
I find it amazing that people are bashing Siemian for his play. Let's all do a reality check:

7th round selection - probably wouldn't have been picked if not for the Broncos
First year starter, who was 3rd string last year
Never thrown a pass in the NFL before this year
Basically ZERO reps with the 1st or 2nd string offense before TC 2016 - and even then he split reps between Sanchez and Lynch

If you're going to bitch, take it to upper management. Siemian is doing a pretty damn good job IMO considering the above - and I'm sure I'm missing a few other factors.

All the more reason to hate Brock.

So he should be immune from criticism just because of where he was picked? When you beat out a 10 year vet in Sanchez and a first round pick in Lynch, then you lose all benefit of the doubt of getting a pass because you were a 7th round pick. The coaches deemed him good enough to play ahead of those two more highly touted players, so now he has to prove it. It's completely fair to expect a higher level of play from him.

It would be one thing if he came into the season as the third stringer and were forced onto the field due to injuries. Then you could say that he was just a 7th round pick who was never supposed to play, so you can give him a pass for not being as good as other guys. But once you get named the starter out of camp over two much more highly touted guys, then you lose the right to hide behind the "I'm a 7th round pick so I should have low expectations" shield. He now has to be judged alongside any other starting NFL QB, and criticism for poor play is completely fair.

BroncoWave
10-31-2016, 10:46 PM
Oh shit! Lorenzo Doss in the house! HYPE!!!

https://twitter.com/TroyRenck/status/793297035055116288

Canmore
10-31-2016, 11:50 PM
I find it amazing that people are bashing Siemian for his play. Let's all do a reality check:

7th round selection - probably wouldn't have been picked if not for the Broncos
First year starter, who was 3rd string last year
Never thrown a pass in the NFL before this year
Basically ZERO reps with the 1st or 2nd string offense before TC 2016 - and even then he split reps between Sanchez and Lynch

If you're going to bitch, take it to upper management. Siemian is doing a pretty damn good job IMO considering the above - and I'm sure I'm missing a few other factors.

All the more reason to hate Brock.

Thank-you!

Canmore
10-31-2016, 11:53 PM
I am stating what i saw in the game. I saw a QB who is not and starting NFL quality QB. Looking at the types of throws rivers was making. The placement for his WR and TE. It was night and day.

And how many catches did a TE get in those games? Dude behind yelled "holy shit Siemian knows a TE can catch the ball too after a Green catch.

And i know he is a yound QB. But he looked like he is a late round round pick QB and in over his head. Riley Dixon caught a beautiful pass thrown to nobody.

I am comparing him to Wentz and Dak. They are out playing him and they have less experience, same field time but 1 year less in the system. Look at Cam his first few starts, look at Luck his rookie season. The young QBs who make it in this league show progression. I am not seeing that with Siemian. So shoot me but i do not think he is going to be anything more than A Kyke Orton.

Kyle Orton??? The fainting goat. How much more derogatory do you want to get?

MOtorboat
10-31-2016, 11:59 PM
Kyle Orton??? The fainting goat. How much more derogatory do you want to get?

The comparison is apt unless he improves.

Canmore
11-01-2016, 12:02 AM
The comparison is apt unless he improves.

What was Kyle's record? No it is not.

BroncoWave
11-01-2016, 12:03 AM
So how long does Siemian get to be shielded from any and all criticism because of where he was drafted? Just want to take notes here so I'll be aware.

Jaded
11-01-2016, 12:05 AM
It's baffling: He's always been solid when healthy—until now, when he essentially negotiated himself a "prove it" deal (i.e. at seasons end we either take a $1M cap hit to cut him, or guarantee him $12M each of the next THREE years; not hard to figure out which we'd choose now, since no one's going to murder their cap for three seasons for this kind of "performance.") He's going from "FA steal" to "lucky to make a roster" in a single season. Kinda like Evan Mathis last year, which doesn't exactly inspire confidence we can fix our line any time soon.

Yet Kubiak and Dennisons lines literally EVERYWHERE else—Baltimore, Houston and their first run with Denver—annually gave virtual clinics in dominant blocking.

I'm starting to think Clancy Barone's the weak link: The guy who joined Denver as TE coach in 2009 and has gone back and forth from there to offensive line coach ever since. The one other constant from the last six years? Consistently awful blocking by both linemen and TEs. According to the team site,


THAT'S what we're counting on to turn Paradis, Garcia, Sambrailo, Schofield and McGovern into starting quality NFL lineman? Yick. Not trying to point fingers, honest, and I realize correlation doesn't equal causation (however suggestively it winks and nods.) Just looking for answers to something... baffling.... :confused:

Listened to Nalen and Kreckman today and Nalen was questioning Barone, this is the first sliver of criticism I've heard since he's been here. Nalen said it's not all talent, the inside three aren't getting it done, but he said it's time for Dennison to spend all day/every day with the OL to coach these guys up.

"If Paradis can't practice he shouldn't play for the sake of his streak, he's hurting his team"

"Is Ferentz so useless that he can't sub for one game to get Paradis healthy" (the answer to this question is yes)

"Okung is not the problem"

"He's (Dennison) a great teacher of OL"

"Of course Barone won't like it, nobody wants to hear they're not good at their job"

"If Barone doesn't like it he can go"

MOtorboat
11-01-2016, 12:06 AM
What was Kyle's record? No it is not.

Orton was 10-5 in his rookie season.

MOtorboat
11-01-2016, 12:07 AM
And at this point in Orton's Broncos career, he was 6-1.

Canmore
11-01-2016, 12:08 AM
So how long does Siemian get to be shielded from any and all criticism because of where he was drafted? Just want to take notes here so I'll be aware.

Not shielding him a bit. Kyle and Mcdoofasass are nothing more than shitting on Trevor. Sorry. don't think he deserves that. None of our players do.

Canmore
11-01-2016, 12:09 AM
And at this point in Orton's Broncos career, he was 6-1.

Well, maybe Trevor deserves a little more time.

MOtorboat
11-01-2016, 12:10 AM
Not shielding him a bit. Kyle and Mcdoofasass are nothing more than shitting on Trevor. Sorry. don't think he deserves that. None of our players do.

Not when you step away from the hate and look at it objectively. At this point, Orton was 6-1. It's not shitting on Siemian. It's reality.

MOtorboat
11-01-2016, 12:11 AM
Well, maybe Trevor deserves a little more time.

He has to get better. Period.

BroncoWave
11-01-2016, 12:11 AM
Not shielding him a bit. Kyle and Mcdoofasass are nothing more than shitting on Trevor. Sorry. don't think he deserves that. None of our players do.

I haven't seen anyone unfairly shitting on him. I think the critique of his play is fair. When you win the starting QB job in camp over the guys he beat out, the bar for his expectations goes up. If he's going to keep a first round pick on the bench, he has to give us a really good reason why. He played decently for the first few weeks, but his level of play has really declined as of late. I don't think it's "shitting" on him to point that out.

Canmore
11-01-2016, 12:15 AM
He has to get better. Period.

Agreed. I think he is worth the chance. Don't think you would agree. Not trying to put words in your mouth.

Trevor needs to improve.

How many come from behind victories did Kyle have ion his 6-1 start?

MOtorboat
11-01-2016, 12:17 AM
Agreed. I think he is worth the chance. Don't think you would agree. Not trying to put words in your mouth.

Trevor needs to improve.

How many come from behind victories did Kyle have ion his 6-1 start?

Frankly, I don't care. But it's an apt comparison. I only care about what Siemian does on the field. And right now, it's not very good.

Joel
11-01-2016, 02:06 AM
I haven't seen anyone unfairly shitting on him. I think the critique of his play is fair. When you win the starting QB job in camp over the guys he beat out, the bar for his expectations goes up. If he's going to keep a first round pick on the bench, he has to give us a really good reason why. He played decently for the first few weeks, but his level of play has really declined as of late. I don't think it's "shitting" on him to point that out.
Neither that first round pick nor anyone else would do any better behind this line. I'd still rather Siemian be the one it reduces to jumping at shadows for the rest of his career, which I also still contend is a lot of what we're seeing now. "He throws too many checkdowns!" No kidding; checkdowns exist for a REASON, remember?

It's all well to say, "Siemian's not developing enough fast enough;" it may even be true: But until/unless there's a valid Plan B, play out the hand we dealt ourselves.

Joel
11-01-2016, 02:09 AM
Oh shit! Lorenzo Doss in the house! HYPE!!!

https://twitter.com/TroyRenck/status/793297035055116288
Pfft, dude's not even hood. ;)

capt. Jack
11-01-2016, 05:02 AM
I don't want to be over optimistic but lets hope Trevor has a statement game, and lights it up in Oakland.
I share the concerns of others when it comes to Trevor but, there has to be some growing pains along the way with the kid.

(I think He needs a big game one of these days.)

:)

Joel
11-01-2016, 05:20 AM
I don't want to be over optimistic but lets hope Trevor has a statement game, and lights it up in Oakland.
I share the concerns of others when it comes to Trevor but, there has to be some growing pains along the way with the kid.

(I think He needs a big game one of these days.)

:)
Hope you're right, but fear you're wrong: Our line's made EVERY QB we've had for the last DECADE look bad—including a FIRST BALLOT HOFER WHO'D JUST SHATTERED EVERY PASSING AND SCORING RECORD IN THE BOOK. Anyone expecting a second-year 7th rounder in his first career starts to do better is fooling themselves. And anyone expecting a rookie 1st rounder to do better than that overperforming second-year 7th rounder is balmy.

It is what it is, and there's no magic bullet (nor Q/RB.) I just hope Elway FINALLY goes hard after the next drafts TOP linemen, instead of settling for the 9th OT selected (i.e. Sambrailo) or the 11th (i.e. Schofield.) Because Sambrailo and Schofield are case studies in the quality of OT left after the first 8-10 are gone. If we do that and it STILL doesn't work, despite THREE YEARS of trying, it's time to start asking, "Father, why is this line different from all other Kubiak/Dennison lines?"

Maybe the answer will deliver our QB from bondage to every scrub pass rusher in the league.

capt. Jack
11-01-2016, 05:26 AM
I'm bummin'!
:(
But,
I believe we are a decent team, with alot of getting better to do.

Joel
11-01-2016, 05:32 AM
I'm bummin'!
:(
But,
I believe we are a decent team, with alot of getting better to do.
We've still got a championship roster everywhere but the offensive line—that's just a REALLY big "but" (and even orange-colored glasses cannot lie.) We can talk about any and all cap-busting highlight reel "skill" players anyone wants, but without BLOCKING no team can consistently run, pass nor even PUNT. Fix that and we're golden, "from now on," but that's been true and IGNORED so long I despair of it happening any time soon.

capt. Jack
11-01-2016, 05:41 AM
It has been going on for a couple years now.
It has to be fixed.

Manning was getting crunched.

Tned
11-01-2016, 06:33 AM
So how long does Siemian get to be shielded from any and all criticism because of where he was drafted? Just want to take notes here so I'll be aware.

What you aren't grasping is that the "shielding" has nothing to do with his daft location and everything to do with the fact he's only started seven games. A lot of fans, possibly because the Broncos haven't had many non veteran starters in the last 30+ years, don't seem to grasp that very few first time starters go out and play like veterans from day one.

BroncoJoe
11-01-2016, 06:38 AM
So how long does Siemian get to be shielded from any and all criticism because of where he was drafted? Just want to take notes here so I'll be aware.

LOL - typical BTB move here. Let's take something to the extreme.

EastCoastBronco
11-01-2016, 08:24 AM
Just chiming in with a couple of observations...

The Good:

Emanuel Sanders.
That catch he stretched out for says all you need to know about this guy.
Heart and soul of the O.
If DT would play with that much heart ALL the time he would be unstoppable.

I slam him a lot but I thought DT had his best game of the season.
At no point in this game did he have his head up his ass which resulted in him being able to see the ball clearly and make the required catch.

Our defence continues to amaze me.
That goal line stand at the end was a thing of beauty.
Ware is such an important, if not the most important, part of that crew.
They just seem to play on a different level when he is out there.

I thought Siemien played fine for someone forced to play behind a patchwork o-line like ours.
That pick he threw was more on the receiver than on him.

I thought Booker did the best what what he was given.
It was also nice to see Juwan Thompson back. That guys is a beast in short yardage.

The Bad.

Our o-Line.
Against a mediocre D like Houston's they tend to fool us into thinking they are a solid unit.
At the half mile post we are in about the same shape as we were last year, putting together a patchwork line week by week.

I have to think that if there were any other viable options out there, Russel Okung would not be on this team.
When I saw that flag in the end zone on our second to last possession I was never in my life so glad to have seen a running play.
I knew it was Okung even before they announced his name.
They guy is done.
Stick a fork in him.


To sum up, I think we are basically in the exact same shape as last year.
If our D stays healthy and holds up we will be fine.

BroncoWave
11-01-2016, 09:20 AM
LOL - typical BTB move here. Let's take something to the extreme.

Yes, Joe, I do sometimes exaggerate to make a point. But it's still a valid point. Why is it still relevant that he was a 7th round pick when evaluating his play? He won the starting job over two more highly touted players. Fair or not, that raises the bar of his expectations.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
11-01-2016, 09:23 AM
Yes, Joe, I do sometimes exaggerate to make a point. But it's still a valid point. Why is it still relevant that he was a 7th round pick when evaluating his play? He won the starting job over two more highly touted players. Fair or not, that raises the bar of his expectations.
He had a bad game, but overall his numbers on the year are above average

Northman
11-01-2016, 09:30 AM
While i was less than thrilled with Siemien's play this past week im not entirely sure what people really expected from him coming out of the box. While it is technically his second year he is still basically a rookie who came in with no live game action. I dont think anyone with any real perception about the team this year can fool themselves into believing that Siemien nor Lynch were going to light it up beyond belief. If people had that expectation than im just not sure what to tell them other than they just are not realistic about our situation in Denver. Cant compare them to Wentz or Dak because those players are on another level talent wise. I mean, if the Broncos had just started Lynch and gone winless at this point would the same people be just as upset? Im just confused as to what they truly expected from out QB position this year.

BroncoWave
11-01-2016, 09:31 AM
He had a bad game, but overall his numbers on the year are above average

I think above average might be a bit generous. He's 24th among qualified players in passer rating this year, 24th in completion %, 23rd in YPA, 25th in TD passes, 18th in INT%, and 26th in yards. I can't find a single stat he's even average in, let alone above average.

CoachChaz
11-01-2016, 09:33 AM
I think above average might be a bit generous. He's 24th among qualified players in passer rating this year, 24th in completion %, 23rd in YPA, 25th in TD passes, 18th in INT%, and 26th in yards. I can't find a single stat he's even average in, let alone above average.

Reason...he's not a good QB. Period.

tomjonesrocks
11-01-2016, 09:47 AM
Reason...he's not a good QB. Period.

He's really only looked competent in short spurts since the injury. Week 1 vs. Carolina and early in the year he looked much more promising.

I don't know the exact reason for the decline, but he certainly looks like a guy with a very low ceiling right now. Even Kubiak isn't really defending him.

Northman
11-01-2016, 09:52 AM
He's really only looked competent in short spurts since the injury. Week 1 vs. Carolina and early in the year he looked much more promising.

I don't know the exact reason for the decline, but he certainly looks like a guy with a very low ceiling right now. Even Kubiak isn't really defending him.

So realistically what would be your answer to fix the issues at QB?

BroncoWave
11-01-2016, 09:57 AM
So realistically what would be your answer to fix the issues at QB?

We're fans North, it's not our job to fix the issues, only to point them out! :D

Northman
11-01-2016, 09:59 AM
We're fans North, it's not our job to fix the issues, only to point them out! :D

Lol, um ok.

tomjonesrocks
11-01-2016, 10:01 AM
So realistically what would be your answer to fix the issues at QB?

I guess let's see if there's a move today before the deadline on the O-line.

If Siemian's health improves/is the culprit for his decline maybe he looks better in the next coming games. I hope that's the case.

However, if Denver happens to lose the next two, and Siemian continues to be ineffective (and Kubiak continues to question his decisions) I've predicted we will see Lynch after the bye.

BroncoWave
11-01-2016, 10:02 AM
I'm excited to see how long this list can grow of reasons to accept poor QB play.

So far we have:

1. He's a 7th round pick so we shouldn't expect much
2. We might not have a better option

Let's see how long we can grow this thing!

Northman
11-01-2016, 10:05 AM
I guess let's see if there's a move today before the deadline on the O-line.

If Siemian's health improves/is the culprit for his decline maybe he looks better in the next coming games. I hope that's the case.

However, if Denver happens to lose the next two, and Siemian continues to be ineffective (and Kubiak continues to question his decisions) I've predicted we will see Lynch after the bye.


Its anyone's guess as to whether or not the injury is lingering and creating any problems. And im pretty sure that if Denver starts losing a handful of games that eventually Siemien will be benched in favor of Lynch. But i only think that will happen if the Broncos are totally out of the playoff picture by then. Lynch had a chance to shine and blew that opportunity so i really dont see Kubiak switching QB's at this point in time.

Northman
11-01-2016, 10:06 AM
I'm excited to see how long this list can grow of reasons to accept poor QB play.

So far we have:

1. He's a 7th round pick so we shouldn't expect much
2. We might not have a better option

Let's see how long we can grow this thing!


We currently dont have a better option so im still missing where the answer is that you seem to have but wont say. Are you wanting Denver to try and go in FA somewhere and get someone? If so, who?

EastCoastBronco
11-01-2016, 10:07 AM
I'm excited to see how long this list can grow of reasons to accept poor QB play.

So far we have:

1. He's a 7th round pick so we shouldn't expect much
2. We might not have a better option

Let's see how long we can grow this thing!

Put Brady behind our line against our defence.
Sit back and watch the fireworks.
He may come out a bit better than TS, but not much.

Point is...It's tough to make any kind of judgement on the skill level of a QB (or RB for that matter) when they are playing behind a wall of wet toilet paper.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
11-01-2016, 10:09 AM
I think above average might be a bit generous. He's 24th among qualified players in passer rating this year, 24th in completion %, 23rd in YPA, 25th in TD passes, 18th in INT%, and 26th in yards. I can't find a single stat he's even average in, let alone above average.

I was looking at completion %, TD to INT ratio, and qb rating of 86. Which ever one of us is correct it's still better than the production we got last year, which isn't saying much.

BroncoJoe
11-01-2016, 11:17 AM
I'm excited to see how long this list can grow of reasons to accept poor QB play.

So far we have:

1. He's a 7th round pick so we shouldn't expect much
2. We might not have a better option

Let's see how long we can grow this thing!

I find it really funny what you choose to focus on, when there are plenty of other reasonable positions (critiques or otherwise) about his play.

BroncoJoe
11-01-2016, 11:18 AM
Yes, Joe, I do sometimes exaggerate to make a point. But it's still a valid point. Why is it still relevant that he was a 7th round pick when evaluating his play? He won the starting job over two more highly touted players. Fair or not, that raises the bar of his expectations.

I mentioned a lot more than his draft status in my original post, but in your revert-to-BTB-fashion, you only focus on one thing.

BroncoJoe
11-01-2016, 11:21 AM
Yes, Joe, I do sometimes exaggerate to make a point. But it's still a valid point. Why is it still relevant that he was a 7th round pick when evaluating his play? He won the starting job over two more highly touted players. Fair or not, that raises the bar of his expectations.

I LOL'd at this.

Maybe it says more about those two "highly touted players" than it says about Siemian.

dogfish
11-01-2016, 11:49 AM
While i was less than thrilled with Siemien's play this past week im not entirely sure what people really expected from him coming out of the box. While it is technically his second year he is still basically a rookie who came in with no live game action. I dont think anyone with any real perception about the team this year can fool themselves into believing that Siemien nor Lynch were going to light it up beyond belief. If people had that expectation than im just not sure what to tell them other than they just are not realistic about our situation in Denver. Cant compare them to Wentz or Dak because those players are on another level talent wise. I mean, if the Broncos had just started Lynch and gone winless at this point would the same people be just as upset? Im just confused as to what they truly expected from out QB position this year.

people are dumb. . . if they can find something that isn't perfect, they will whine about it. . .

BroncoWave
11-01-2016, 11:51 AM
I LOL'd at this.

Maybe it says more about those two "highly touted players" than it says about Siemian.

Maybe it does, but that doesn't change the fact that he's ranked in the mid 20s in basically every major passing stat. We could get that kind of production out of pretty much any competent pro QB. The 6-2 record is pretty much the only thing he has going for him, and that's mostly due to the defense saving our bacon. I just don't really see any good reason to give him a pass for his poor play.

BroncoWave
11-01-2016, 11:53 AM
people are dumb. . . if they can find something that isn't perfect, they will whine about it. . .

LOL give me a break. It's not that Siemian "isn't perfect", it's that he really isn't even that good. I would be happy if he were simply average. We'd be the best team in football if he could just hit that level.

Tned
11-01-2016, 11:59 AM
Maybe it does, but that doesn't change the fact that he's ranked in the mid 20s in basically every major passing stat. We could get that kind of production out of pretty much any competent pro QB. The 6-2 record is pretty much the only thing he has going for him, and that's mostly due to the defense saving our bacon. I just don't really see any good reason to give him a pass for his poor play.

True, guys like Rodgers, Newton, Mariota and the others rated worse?

NightTerror218
11-01-2016, 02:23 PM
While i was less than thrilled with Siemien's play this past week im not entirely sure what people really expected from him coming out of the box. While it is technically his second year he is still basically a rookie who came in with no live game action. I dont think anyone with any real perception about the team this year can fool themselves into believing that Siemien nor Lynch were going to light it up beyond belief. If people had that expectation than im just not sure what to tell them other than they just are not realistic about our situation in Denver. Cant compare them to Wentz or Dak because those players are on another level talent wise. I mean, if the Broncos had just started Lynch and gone winless at this point would the same people be just as upset? Im just confused as to what they truly expected from out QB position this year.

I would like to see his play get bettwr not fet worse dramaticly. Kuniak even called siemian out for his bad decision making in this game. That was my shock. After bengals game i said wow i see what he can do with dt and sanders one on one when forced to pass. But he has not come close to repeating that.

Watching in person and see hom completely miss wide open guys when his head never moved from DT and throw into triple coverage. I was just like wow. How do you not go throw progressions, and see green open 10 yards down field.

Also the oline gave him a lot of time on some passes ywt he would still check down to rb immediately for 5 yards on 3rd and 8.

Seriously he got hurt but he has been slipping mentally with his play since the injury. His deep balls are amazing plays by the WR on not perfect passes....he is not a good deep ball thrower.

CoachChaz
11-01-2016, 02:34 PM
I would like to see his play get bettwr not fet worse dramaticly. Kuniak even called siemian out for his bad decision making in this game. That was my shock. After bengals game i said wow i see what he can do with dt and sanders one on one when forced to pass. But he has not come close to repeating that.

Watching in person and see hom completely miss wide open guys when his head never moved from DT and throw into triple coverage. I was just like wow. How do you not go throw progressions, and see green open 10 yards down field.

Also the oline gave him a lot of time on some passes ywt he would still check down to rb immediately for 5 yards on 3rd and 8.

Seriously he got hurt but he has been slipping mentally with his play since the injury. His deep balls are amazing plays by the WR on not perfect passes....he is not a good deep ball thrower.

I think this is the key to the argument. The Siemian "promoters" are looking at the things he has done (which realistically isnt much) and failing to see what he has had the opportunity to do, but failed. There is a reason why DT and Sanders are vocal about lack of production. it's because they know when they are wide open on a regular basis, just to see a 3 yard pass to a RB or a 7 yard pass to a TE with two safeties right next to him.

I'll grant that the OL hasnt been good and that Siemian is young, but with even a little more talent behind center, this team could out up a lot more points. Despite the run last year, I feel like we are potentially wasting an amazing defense.

NightTerror218
11-01-2016, 02:38 PM
I think this is the key to the argument. The Siemian "promoters" are looking at the things he has done (which realistically isnt much) and failing to see what he has had the opportunity to do, but failed. There is a reason why DT and Sanders are vocal about lack of production. it's because they know when they are wide open on a regular basis, just to see a 3 yard pass to a RB or a 7 yard pass to a TE with two safeties right next to him.

I'll grant that the OL hasnt been good and that Siemian is young, but with even a little more talent behind center, this team could out up a lot more points. Despite the run last year, I feel like we are potentially wasting an amazing defense.

And maybe our WR saying something has mentally put pressure on siemian to throw to them even if they are not open. Because he def forced throws to them sunday.

Tned
11-01-2016, 02:44 PM
I would like to see his play get bettwr not fet worse dramaticly. Kuniak even called siemian out for his bad decision making in this game. That was my shock. After bengals game i said wow i see what he can do with dt and sanders one on one when forced to pass. But he has not come close to repeating that.

Watching in person and see hom completely miss wide open guys when his head never moved from DT and throw into triple coverage. I was just like wow. How do you not go throw progressions, and see green open 10 yards down field.

Also the oline gave him a lot of time on some passes ywt he would still check down to rb immediately for 5 yards on 3rd and 8.

Seriously he got hurt but he has been slipping mentally with his play since the injury. His deep balls are amazing plays by the WR on not perfect passes....he is not a good deep ball thrower.

Now that the coach's film is up on game pass, I've spent a few minutes looking at some plays and have been surprised how multiple 3rd and long plays had zero receivers beyond the first down marker, or even up to it, they were all short routes, clearly intended to get the first via YAC.

You've mentioned the DT play multiple times. I'm not finding it and don't remember it. Can you give me an idea of when it was. I'm assuming it was incomplete. What play are you talking about?

Northman
11-01-2016, 05:02 PM
I think this is the key to the argument. The Siemian "promoters" are looking at the things he has done (which realistically isnt much) and failing to see what he has had the opportunity to do, but failed. There is a reason why DT and Sanders are vocal about lack of production. it's because they know when they are wide open on a regular basis, just to see a 3 yard pass to a RB or a 7 yard pass to a TE with two safeties right next to him.

I'll grant that the OL hasnt been good and that Siemian is young, but with even a little more talent behind center, this team could out up a lot more points. Despite the run last year, I feel like we are potentially wasting an amazing defense.


Ill ask again, what is the answer? What QB is out there that can improve this team THIS year? If you say Lynch you are out of your mind. He is just as green and struggles just as much. So what answer do you have to fix the problem? Futhermore, how long do you give a QB to actually mature enough to be a viable pro? It sounds like you think he should be a HOF right out of the box so im just trying to figure out what your realistic expectations are for a young QB.

NightTerror218
11-01-2016, 05:35 PM
Now that the coach's film is up on game pass, I've spent a few minutes looking at some plays and have been surprised how multiple 3rd and long plays had zero receivers beyond the first down marker, or even up to it, they were all short routes, clearly intended to get the first via YAC.

You've mentioned the DT play multiple times. I'm not finding it and don't remember it. Can you give me an idea of when it was. I'm assuming it was incomplete. What play are you talking about?

I just remember the entire section i was yelling to look at other side of field for open guy. We were deep in our territory headed away from south endzone.

Dude behind me might have been Lynch12 since he was calling for siemian to be benched.it might have been the same series when siemian overthrew/underthrew DT by a longshot. Throw was way too high and way behind DT.

NightTerror218
11-01-2016, 05:40 PM
Ill ask again, what is the answer? What QB is out there that can improve this team THIS year? If you say Lynch you are out of your mind. He is just as green and struggles just as much. So what answer do you have to fix the problem? Futhermore, how long do you give a QB to actually mature enough to be a viable pro? It sounds like you think he should be a HOF right out of the box so im just trying to figure out what your realistic expectations are for a young QB.

He should be improving. We have been furtunate with dropped ints by other teams so far. Several if his passes should have been picked off the last few games. They will catch up to him eventually. Also he would not have completed any deep pass if not for DT and sanders making amazing plays on passes.

And you dont know if Lynch will improve this team because i dont care what you think but Lynch is greener, less time in thia offense by a year. Less time to work on timing with WR and less time in live action.

I dont know what the answer is but if siemian keeps regressing and we start to lose, i dont doubt Lynch era will start.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
11-01-2016, 05:44 PM
I did notice him stairing down receivers more than normal against SD. I am far from panic mode, however.

JPPT1974
11-01-2016, 05:48 PM
Without Ware, the defense suffers a bit if ya know what I mean!

Tned
11-01-2016, 06:46 PM
Ill ask again, what is the answer? What QB is out there that can improve this team THIS year? If you say Lynch you are out of your mind. He is just as green and struggles just as much. So what answer do you have to fix the problem? Futhermore, how long do you give a QB to actually mature enough to be a viable pro? It sounds like you think he should be a HOF right out of the box so im just trying to figure out what your realistic expectations are for a young QB.

This is the essence of what I've been trying to get across and some just see it as some Siemian love. It's simply being realistic of what can be expected from a first year starter combined with enough evidence that Lynch will be a worse first year starter.

Jaded
11-01-2016, 09:55 PM
And maybe our WR saying something has mentally put pressure on siemian to throw to them even if they are not open. Because he def forced throws to them sunday.

These two really need to grow the **** up, it's getting old watching their pity parties week after week.

Joel
11-02-2016, 12:25 AM
I did notice him stairing down receivers more than normal against SD. I am far from panic mode, however.
That's good; wish I could believe HE'S far from panic mode. Then again, you didn't miss a game and a half with a busted up shoulder, so maybe that's the difference. No, it's not getting better this year, whether with Siemian or [your man crush here.] Because much of the problem's not the QUARTERBACK (nor RUNNING BACK) in the first place: He's just paying most of the consequences for it.

Northman
11-02-2016, 03:09 AM
I dont know what the answer is

As i figured.

capt. Jack
11-02-2016, 06:12 AM
It is kinda important to win this weekend.
If Trevor can manage his position and not totally implode this year, I think we stick with the kid.

CoachChaz
11-02-2016, 08:28 AM
It is kinda important to win this weekend.
If Trevor can manage his position and not totally implode this year, I think we stick with the kid.

I think that's exactly why he is the starter. Because he shows to be a more capable game manager. The good thing is that with his limited skill set, he knows it and tends to be content with a very vanilla game plan. While Lynch would offer the home run threat in the air and more options with his legs...he'd also be more prone to turnovers and I think Kubiak went with Siemian to avoid that, mostly because he has the knowledge that the offense isnt going to keep his stud defense off the field all that much an the occasional turnover wouldnt help.

Siemian isnt going to do anything to lose a game...but he's not going to do much to win one either.

Valar Morghulis
11-02-2016, 08:38 AM
I think that's exactly why he is the starter. Because he shows to be a more capable game manager. The good thing is that with his limited skill set, he knows it and tends to be content with a very vanilla game plan. While Lynch would offer the home run threat in the air and more options with his legs...he'd also be more prone to turnovers and I think Kubiak went with Siemian to avoid that, mostly because he has the knowledge that the offense isnt going to keep his stud defense off the field all that much an the occasional turnover wouldnt help. Siemian isnt going to do anything to lose a game...but he's not going to do much to win one either.

I probably like siemian more than most but he has made some terrible decisions with the ball that make me think he absolutely will lose us games, especially big games with the game on the line.

I don't like lynch at all, but if those terrible decisions by siemian are picked instead of dropped, lynch is already our qb. Siemian is lucky.

EastCoastBronco
11-02-2016, 09:18 AM
I like the kid.
He's doing fine.
He's playing a hell of a lot better than Manning did last year.
I'm not sure what people are looking for in a first year guy.

BroncoWave
11-02-2016, 09:21 AM
Siemian isnt going to do anything to lose a game...but he's not going to do much to win one either.

I don't know that I agree with this. Those near-picks he threw against SD and the one he actually threw could very easily have lost us that game.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
11-02-2016, 09:56 AM
There is a lot of conjecture used in criticizing Siemian. Every qb has picks drop.
His TD to INT ratio is what it is.

BroncoWave
11-02-2016, 10:00 AM
There is a lot of conjecture used in criticizing Siemian. Every qb has picks drop.
His TD to INT ratio is what it is.

His INT% is still in the bottom half of the league even with all of the dropped picks.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
11-02-2016, 10:06 AM
His INT% is still in the bottom half of the league even with all of the dropped picks.

Maybe so, it's still a big improvement over what we got last year.

Northman
11-02-2016, 10:11 AM
I remember people touting Carson Wentz early in the season for the way he was playing which is fine, in the first 3 games he was 3-0 as a starter and had thrown 5 TD's and 0 Int's. Since then he has been 1-3 as a starter and thrown 4 TD's with 3 Int's. He has clearly regressed and will be a bust according to some of the logic people have been throwing around here. lol

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
11-02-2016, 10:15 AM
His TD to INT ratio is 2 to 1. That's good Wave.

When this year began I wasn't expecting our qb to be in the top third of the league. My expectation was right about where he is now.

Northman
11-02-2016, 10:16 AM
His TD to INT ratio is 2 to 1. That's good Wave.

When this year began I wasn't expecting our qb to be in the top third of the league. My expectation was right about where he is now.

I dont know how anyone thought our QB situation would be better than it currently is.

Mike
11-02-2016, 10:24 AM
I would really like to see how he does with a good o-line. Tned is right, we need to give him more time and be more patient.

Slick
11-02-2016, 10:47 AM
I dont know how anyone thought our QB situation would be better than it currently is.

True. I didn't expect Denver to be 6-2 at this point either. Gary played it safe by going with the game manager with a year of clipboard holding under his belt instead of taking his lumps with the rookie that looks to me like he has the better physical tools.

I would have gambled more and went with Paxton but I certainly understand why Kubiak did what he did. Hard to argue with it at the moment.

The only problem with that is if Siemian doesn't improve over the course of the season and Lynch ends up being the guy next year, Denver will have another year of growing pains with a first year starter.

Hawgdriver
11-02-2016, 11:01 AM
With this line, Siemian is the best fit. He makes the quickest decisions, they tend to be the least mistakes, and he's most likely to not get injured. Lynch would tend toward being a playmaker which as a rookie is too inconsistent and dangerous both for him and the team.

LawDog
11-02-2016, 11:43 AM
I rewatched the game last night. Here's the thing about Trevor, he was getting knocked around, a lot, early in the game. Especially two plays - one in which he got slammed down on his left (injured) shoulder, and the other when he got drilled in the back leading to his fumble. It seemed to get in his head a little bit and he was making some poor decisions - but that happens to pretty much every QB and the Brady meltdown against KC a couple years ago comes to mind as a prime example. The difference is that it didn't last long with Siemian. Even after the pick six he came right back with a strike to Green and then that bomb to DT which was perfectly thrown - so perfect that I'm still surprised that DT caught it. Also, the pick six was not a bad throw or bad decision, that was all on Norwood trying to catch a pass with a couple of dandelions on the end of his arms as an excuse for hands...

In short, not a great game for Trevor, but there were definitely bright spots and he continues to display that weird calmness and poise that everyone keeps talking about. I'm cautiously optimistic for him this year.

Lastly, you could really tell that Ware was pissed after that offsides call and Rivers running his pie-hole. I noticed it live as it happened right in front of us, but watching it again on TV you could just feel it and knew he was not going to let SD score. Pure awesomeness.

Northman
11-02-2016, 11:47 AM
True. I didn't expect Denver to be 6-2 at this point either. Gary played it safe by going with the game manager with a year of clipboard holding under his belt instead of taking his lumps with the rookie that looks to me like he has the better physical tools.

I would have gambled more and went with Paxton but I certainly understand why Kubiak did what he did. Hard to argue with it at the moment.

The only problem with that is if Siemian doesn't improve over the course of the season and Lynch ends up being the guy next year, Denver will have another year of growing pains with a first year starter.


All true but that is why Gary went with the game manager because the team can still possibly win now. To start Paxton would basically be throwing in the towel and starting to rebuild now. Instead, Gary can allow his future QB sit and learn while the team still competes for another title. Paxton wouldnt hit full stride as a QB until his 3rd year anyway and by then Denver will most likely have re-loaded on FA's and draft picks to fill in for players who have left.

Lynch12
11-02-2016, 12:08 PM
With this line, Siemian is the best fit. He makes the quickest decisions, they tend to be the least mistakes, and he's most likely to not get injured. Lynch would tend toward being a playmaker which as a rookie is too inconsistent and dangerous both for him and the team.

He makes the least mistakes? When he has about 10 dropped ints that were terrible decisions? Trevor is not the guy of the future and is just along for the ride right now. It will be a wasted year because they should be letting lynch take his lumps instead of taking them next year when Trevor is the back-up.

Lynch12
11-02-2016, 12:10 PM
And people are still saying hes injured, when that's not the case because if it was the case he wouldn't be playing. If kubes will bench a HOF quarterback then he will bench Trevor IF he was hurt.

Slick
11-02-2016, 12:14 PM
All true but that is why Gary went with the game manager because the team can still possibly win now. To start Paxton would basically be throwing in the towel and starting to rebuild now. Instead, Gary can allow his future QB sit and learn while the team still competes for another title. Paxton wouldnt hit full stride as a QB until his 3rd year anyway and by then Denver will most likely have re-loaded on FA's and draft picks to fill in for players who have left.

I guess where we disagree is I don't see how you can say he'd be throwing in the towel and rebuilding when talking about Lynch as opposed to Siemian. They're both essentially rookie QBs. I guess we disagree about how much worse Lynch would be as opposed to Siemian.

If Siemian were a veteran QB I would agree but he isn't.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
11-02-2016, 12:15 PM
And people are still saying hes injured, when that's not the case because if it was the case he wouldn't be playing. If kubes will bench a HOF quarterback then he will bench Trevor IF he was hurt.

Unless an injured Siemian is less of a risk than his backup.

LawDog
11-02-2016, 12:16 PM
And people are still saying hes injured, when that's not the case because if it was the case he wouldn't be playing. If kubes will bench a HOF quarterback then he will bench Trevor IF he was hurt.

Halfway through the season there are about 49 guys on the active roster who could be considered to be "injured". Most of them are playing. Do you have an actual point? Like, ever?

dogfish
11-02-2016, 12:17 PM
He makes the least mistakes? When he has about 10 dropped ints that were terrible decisions? Trevor is not the guy of the future and is just along for the ride right now. It will be a wasted year because they should be letting lynch take his lumps instead of taking them next year when Trevor is the back-up.

yea, a wasted year where we probably win the division again. . . shut up, you nancy!

Lynch12
11-02-2016, 12:22 PM
Wake me up when the goal is to win divisions. Yawn.

Lynch12
11-02-2016, 12:24 PM
Lynch should be playing so we can win another ring next year. We would most likely make the playoffs with lynch anyway since this team wins despite the quarterback play for now, but that all stops once Paxton Lynch takes over.

Mike
11-02-2016, 12:31 PM
Lynch should be playing so we can win another ring next year. We would most likely make the playoffs with lynch anyway since this team wins despite the quarterback play for now, but that all stops once Paxton Lynch takes over.

Lol...I have no idea what you are basing that opinion on.

There is nothing to indicate that we would be winning anything under Lynch. His start pretty much validated the thought that he was drafted as a project and will need more time til he is NFL ready.

I am on board with starting him if/when the wheels come off. Until then, winning ugly works.

Hawgdriver
11-02-2016, 12:59 PM
Wake me up when the goal is to win divisions. Yawn.

rise and shine!

Lynch12
11-02-2016, 01:26 PM
Lol...I have no idea what you are basing that opinion on.

There is nothing to indicate that we would be winning anything under Lynch. His start pretty much validated the thought that he was drafted as a project and will need more time til he is NFL ready.

I am on board with starting him if/when the wheels come off. Until then, winning ugly works.

I'm basing it on the talent surrounding him and his pure raw talent and fit to this offense. This passing game is nowhere near what it should be, kubiak cannot open up the playbook with all the deep stuff that's in it. But it could be with lynch, like I said you take your lumps this year and you come out like a GT350R hauling ass next year. With Trevor your going to get mediocre to average play Sometimes, and then like the last 3 games poor play.

Tned
11-02-2016, 02:04 PM
I don't know that I agree with this. Those near-picks he threw against SD and the one he actually threw could very easily have lost us that game.

No doubt, I think what Chaz is saying is that while of course Siemian could make a mistake or multiple that cost the Broncos a win, in totality, the controlled "game manager" style of play that Siemian is showing, and generally good decisions, is less likely to lead to large numbers of turnovers and short fields compared to the gunslinger mentality that Lynch showed in his start, not to mention appearing far more shaken under the pressure that the Broncos line allows.

Tom Brady has made mistakes that cost his team wins, as has Rodgers, Rivers, etc., so it's going to happen, and a lot more often with a first year starting QB like Siemian than good to great QBs like the ones I just mentioned, but clearly Kubiak believes he's less likely than Lynch to make a bunch of those game losing mistakes.

Tned
11-02-2016, 02:20 PM
I remember people touting Carson Wentz early in the season for the way he was playing which is fine, in the first 3 games he was 3-0 as a starter and had thrown 5 TD's and 0 Int's. Since then he has been 1-3 as a starter and thrown 4 TD's with 3 Int's. He has clearly regressed and will be a bust according to some of the logic people have been throwing around here. lol

Exactly, which is the problem with making determinations on a game or two or individual plays. It's like all the shouting about check downs on 3rd down. Looking at game pass for this last game (still only cursory glance so far), multiple 3rd and longs had all receivers running routes short of the sticks. That's clearly Kubiak calling those plays, due to how bad the O-line is and trying to get quick hitters and hope the receiver can make a play to get a missed tackle and get the first down.

What Wentz and Dak have done is close to unprecedented. Wentz has seemingly regressed a bit, and Dak wasn't quite as good this weekend, but overall, these kids have had amazing starts to their careers. BUT, first years starters, whether true rookies or a second year/scout team guy like Siemian, are going to have ups and downs. It's just the reality outside of Disney movies and Madden games.


His TD to INT ratio is 2 to 1. That's good Wave.

When this year began I wasn't expecting our qb to be in the top third of the league. My expectation was right about where he is now.

Exactly. When Manning was benched, what did he have, 17 INTs, 11 through his first 7 games. Our QB play is better, but we have to be realistic about what we can expect from a first year starter, whether his name is Luck, Brees, Winston, etc. or Siemian.


True. I didn't expect Denver to be 6-2 at this point either. Gary played it safe by going with the game manager with a year of clipboard holding under his belt instead of taking his lumps with the rookie that looks to me like he has the better physical tools.

I would have gambled more and went with Paxton but I certainly understand why Kubiak did what he did. Hard to argue with it at the moment.

The only problem with that is if Siemian doesn't improve over the course of the season and Lynch ends up being the guy next year, Denver will have another year of growing pains with a first year starter.


I guess where we disagree is I don't see how you can say he'd be throwing in the towel and rebuilding when talking about Lynch as opposed to Siemian. They're both essentially rookie QBs. I guess we disagree about how much worse Lynch would be as opposed to Siemian.

If Siemian were a veteran QB I would agree but he isn't.

It's not that Kubiak played it safe, it's that he watches both of them every day, both in practice and then in games (preseason) and then looks at the film to see what they did, based on what was called, the defense shown, etc. and puts the guy on the field that gives him the best chance to win. Playing it safe probably would have been to go with Sanchez, even with some of the turnover baggage he brings.


I'm basing it on the talent surrounding him and his pure raw talent and fit to this offense. This passing game is nowhere near what it should be, kubiak cannot open up the playbook with all the deep stuff that's in it. But it could be with lynch, like I said you take your lumps this year and you come out like a GT350R hauling ass next year. With Trevor your going to get mediocre to average play Sometimes, and then like the last 3 games poor play.

Geez, your GTR350R comment just reinforces the asinine Madden mentality that you display as it comes to how you decide who plays on an NFL team.

wayninja
11-02-2016, 02:47 PM
Wake me up when the goal is to win divisions. Yawn.

What place are we in right now?

Canmore
11-02-2016, 02:47 PM
I'm basing it on the talent surrounding him and his pure raw talent and fit to this offense. This passing game is nowhere near what it should be, kubiak cannot open up the playbook with all the deep stuff that's in it. But it could be with lynch, like I said you take your lumps this year and you come out like a GT350R hauling ass next year. With Trevor your going to get mediocre to average play Sometimes, and then like the last 3 games poor play.

Nice Shelby reference, unfortunately that is it.

nevcraw
11-02-2016, 03:58 PM
Lynch should be playing so we can win another ring next year. We would most likely make the playoffs with lynch anyway since this team wins despite the quarterback play for now, but that all stops once Paxton Lynch takes over.
'Yeah let's wait and win one next year' said JMFE never.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
11-02-2016, 05:12 PM
'Yeah let's wait and win one next year' said JMFE never.

Why would we try and win a championship this year when we could hope to try next year?

Canmore
11-02-2016, 05:59 PM
Why would we try and win a championship this year when we could hope to try next year?

Logic.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
11-02-2016, 06:15 PM
Logic.

Logic can be evasive at times.

wayninja
11-02-2016, 06:18 PM
Logic can be evasive at times.

What's its 3 cone time?

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
11-02-2016, 06:54 PM
What's its 3 cone time?

It takes me about 20 minutes to eat 3 ice cream cones.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
11-02-2016, 06:55 PM
Why would we try and win a championship this year when we could hope to try next year?

I'm beginning to think no one realized this was sarcasm. Oh well, live to fight another day!

Canmore
11-02-2016, 07:04 PM
I'm beginning to think no one realized this was sarcasm. Oh well, live to fight another day!

I did. So was my response.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
11-02-2016, 07:05 PM
I did.

Thanks bro. I was worried someone might be persuaded I would actually believe that 😬

Slick
11-02-2016, 09:08 PM
It's not that Kubiak played it safe, it's that he watches both of them every day, both in practice and then in games (preseason) and then looks at the film to see what they did, based on what was called, the defense shown, etc. and puts the guy on the field that gives him the best chance to win. Playing it safe probably would have been to go with Sanchez, even with some of the turnover baggage he brings.



Sanchez was a known. Known not to be very good. Doing what Kubiak has done so far is playing it safe and I don't have a problem with it. He went with the guy that he knew better and is protecting him with conservative playcalling.

You're stating the obvious with the rest of your point. I'm still not arguing why Siemian starts over Lynch but you keep talking to me like I am.

Tned
11-02-2016, 09:13 PM
Sanchez was a known. Known not to be very good. Doing what Kubiak has done so far is playing it safe and I don't have a problem with it. He went with the guy that he knew better and is protecting him with conservative playcalling.

You're stating the obvious with the rest of your point. I'm still not arguing why Siemian starts over Lynch but you keep talking to me like I am.

You keep, stating or inferring, that the Broncos would be no worse off with Lynch under center. Clearly Kubiak and his staff disagree, or Lynch would be playing.

Slick
11-02-2016, 09:27 PM
You keep, stating or inferring, that the Broncos would be no worse off with Lynch under center. Clearly Kubiak and his staff disagree, or Lynch would be playing.

Northman said starting Lynch would be like throwing in the towel and I disagreed due to the fact that both QBs were essentially rookies.

If starting Lynch is throwing in the towel then so was starting Siemian.

Plus I prefaced that I understood why he did that in the post before it.

Then you jumped in for some reason.

chazoe60
11-02-2016, 09:39 PM
This is where I'm at.

Enjoy it I guess - but the Raiders are going to bitch-slap this squad as it stands now. Denver does not have an NFL offense at the moment.

This is a bad team with a very good defense until further notice.

Have you paid attention to the Raiders defense or lack there of.

wayninja
11-02-2016, 10:31 PM
Northman said starting Lynch would be like throwing in the towel and I disagreed due to the fact that both QBs were essentially rookies.

If starting Lynch is throwing in the towel then so was starting Siemian.

Plus I prefaced that I understood why he did that in the post before it.

Then you jumped in for some reason.

Because of IQ.

Valar Morghulis
11-03-2016, 01:30 AM
I'm beginning to think no one realized this was sarcasm. Oh well, live to fight another day!

I did, but I hate you. So never replied or high fived. I was also sleeping at the time, but that's a minor detail

Joel
11-03-2016, 02:06 AM
You keep, stating or inferring, that the Broncos would be no worse off with Lynch under center. Clearly Kubiak and his staff disagree, or Lynch would be playing.
More to the point, Lynch and Siemians records, stats and game tapes disagree. It's not like Siemian's struggled most of the year and Lynch blew the doors off opponents when he took over: Lynch UNDERPERFORMED Siemian (even the currently slumping version of Siemian.) There's literally NO reason to expect Lynch would do any better, and SEVERAL reasons to expect he would continue doing much worse:

1) Our line can't protect NOR provide run support to ANY QB; unless it magically learned to block when Lynch started (and it didn't when he DID start,) he can't help.
2) Lynch is raw even by rookie standards; if Siemian's struggling to go throw progressions or make good decisions, Lynch will only do worse—and HAS.
3) Lynch has only been in the offense and with his playmakers for a few MONTHS; Siemian's been studying and practicing the playbook since last year.
4) Because it deserves its own bullet point: We HAVE started Lynch and he played WORSE than even rattled post-injury Siemian.
5) And, of course (as you note,) the people with the best most complete view of both QBs capabilities have consistently chosen Lynch (plus the head of that group happens to be a former NFL QB and current NFL QB-guru who's forgotten more about playing, evaluating and developing the position than any of us will ever know.)

The sole (supposedly) decent argument for putting Lynch in now is that it'd "prepare him for next year." In the sense a shredded shoulder a few weeks back and the nervous lack of the very self-assurance that won Siemian the job would prepare Lynch for more of the same behind the same awful line next year, maybe.

Frankly, I'm hoping the fact that most passes Kubiak calls are <10 yds reflects our front offices keen awareness that our LINE (i.e. NOT our QB, nor RB) is crippling an otherwise VERY talented offense, and signals that Elway will (finally) make that his top priority next season. In which case, I'd prefer Lynch debut in 2017 behind a much improved line with both his confidence and BODY intact.

Yet whether the goal's win now, win then or "win from now on," Lynch has shown Siemian's still the guy unless his development not only stalls, but rapidly regresses.

Joel
11-03-2016, 02:07 AM
I did, but I hate you. So never replied nor high fived. I was also sleeping at the time, but that's a minor detail
FIfY :tongue:

Valar Morghulis
11-03-2016, 02:13 AM
FIfY :tongue:

Are you brick tamlin?

Hawgdriver
11-03-2016, 02:32 AM
Are you brick tamlin?

I ran into him at the Denver airport. I was like...is that...?? ?

He was like. . .no eye contact . . don't look

I'll never forget when Steve Carell picked up his dogs from the special section of baggage at DIA and we both existed in reality in close proximity.

dogfish
11-03-2016, 03:36 AM
Are you brick tamlin?

are you connor mcleod?

Valar Morghulis
11-03-2016, 03:38 AM
are you connor mcleod?

There can be only one

Joel
11-03-2016, 04:09 AM
Are you brick tamlin?
No.

Tned
11-03-2016, 07:01 AM
Northman said starting Lynch would be like throwing in the towel and I disagreed due to the fact that both QBs were essentially rookies.

If starting Lynch is throwing in the towel then so was starting Siemian.

Plus I prefaced that I understood why he did that in the post before it.

Then you jumped in for some reason.

It's called a discussion board and I was discussing my opinion. Sorry meandering prose seems to always get under your skin.

Tned
11-03-2016, 07:16 AM
Because of IQ.

Sorry if my IQ comment was upsetting Ningie. I should have said it a different way, but was having a very hectic day and posted a quick response.

Ok, let me try it in a way that doesn't hurt anyone's feelings.

Cries for Tebow back in the day, when every talking head and person covering football, especially the local media at the practices, pointed out how bad his mechanics and other skills needed to play NFL QB were, fell within the bois realm.

Cries now for starting Lynch, when local media stated how much he struggled in training camp (drop backs, progressions, etc.) and how bad he looked in his start and claiming how the Broncos would be just as well off and have won just as many games (even when they hadn't lost) with Lynch over Siemian is/was in the bois realm, because it's contrary to what the head coach and all the media actually covering the team says, not to mention what fans should have been able to see from his one start.

Realizing that what Siemian is doing, performance wise, is pretty normal for a first year starting QB (one that had zero snaps other than a kneel down prior to this season), and that prior to his injury, he had done numerous things that no Broncos first year starter, and in some cases no first year starter on any team, had ever done is understanding the game and setting fanbois feelings aside.

I want Lynch to succeed, because I want a guy that can be brushing a rushing linebacker off with his left hand, while launching an off balanced throw 50 yards down field. I want a guy to run a bootleg, and if the field is open, be able to take off for 25 yards, or if his receiver is in the clear, launch it 70 yards down field.

I get why you guys are getting little chubbies thinking about Lynch. I really do. I'm just able to tuck my little fanbois chubby back in my pants and focus on what's best for the Broncos right now, in terms of winning and defending their SB championship, and let the future sort itself out. At the same time, I've watched enough football over the last 30+ years to know that what Siemian is doing is right on par with what most first time starting QBs do. In fact, better than many, who are typically turnover machines, and who was actually in fairly lofty territory before his injury.

I don't make the fanbois mistake of comparing Siemian's play to veterans, but instead how he compares to first, second, third round draft picks and how they performed in their first year of starting, because they are usually the ones that get to start in their first or second year, and with only a VERY small number of exceptions, typically struggle badly in their first year.

wayninja
11-03-2016, 09:37 AM
Oh, no I get it. Barely. I mean, I don't have a high football IQ or anything, so I'm struggling with some of the larger words.

Beyond that, it seems like a very long explanation for a double standard.

It's fine by me though, I don't care. I'm not any fan of Lynch or Siemian, I simply want a decent offense. I get that the line sucks. It did back then too. I get that accuracy and consistency problems are normal for young QB's. I understood it back then too.

The bottom line is still the bottom line. Siemian isn't playing well, and is trending downwards. That's bad.

Hopefully he gets better and I'll be able to see it between shoving pork rinds into my mouth breathing face hole.

Slick
11-03-2016, 09:48 AM
Oh, no I get it. Barely. I mean, I don't have a high football IQ or anything, so I'm struggling with some of the larger words.

Beyond that, it seems like a very long explanation for a double standard.

It's fine by me though, I don't care. I'm not any fan of Lynch or Siemian, I simply want a decent offense. I get that the line sucks. It did back then too. I get that accuracy and consistency problems are normal for young QB's. I understood it back then too.

The bottom line is still the bottom line. Siemian isn't playing well, and is trending downwards. That's bad.

Hopefully he gets better and I'll be able to see it between shoving pork rinds into my mouth breathing face hole.

Fanboi!

Valar Morghulis
11-03-2016, 09:53 AM
Hopefully he gets better and I'll be able to see it between shoving pork rinds into my mouth breathing face hole.

These words, in this order. Genius.

BroncoWave
11-03-2016, 09:57 AM
Oh, no I get it. Barely. I mean, I don't have a high football IQ or anything, so I'm struggling with some of the larger words.

Beyond that, it seems like a very long explanation for a double standard.

It's fine by me though, I don't care. I'm not any fan of Lynch or Siemian, I simply want a decent offense. I get that the line sucks. It did back then too. I get that accuracy and consistency problems are normal for young QB's. I understood it back then too.

The bottom line is still the bottom line. Siemian isn't playing well, and is trending downwards. That's bad.

Hopefully he gets better and I'll be able to see it between shoving pork rinds into my mouth breathing face hole.

I'm glad we simpletons have such a genius to explain football to us!

Tned
11-03-2016, 10:18 AM
Oh, no I get it. Barely. I mean, I don't have a high football IQ or anything, so I'm struggling with some of the larger words.

Beyond that, it seems like a very long explanation for a double standard.

It's fine by me though, I don't care. I'm not any fan of Lynch or Siemian, I simply want a decent offense. I get that the line sucks. It did back then too. I get that accuracy and consistency problems are normal for young QB's. I understood it back then too.

The bottom line is still the bottom line. Siemian isn't playing well, and is trending downwards. That's bad.

Hopefully he gets better and I'll be able to see it between shoving pork rinds into my mouth breathing face hole.

See, your evaluation shows that your football IQ is high enough to evaluate the situation and not just post as a fanboi. Pork rinds aside.

Tned
11-03-2016, 10:27 AM
Oh, no I get it. Barely. I mean, I don't have a high football IQ or anything, so I'm struggling with some of the larger words.

Beyond that, it seems like a very long explanation for a double standard.

It's fine by me though, I don't care. I'm not any fan of Lynch or Siemian, I simply want a decent offense. I get that the line sucks. It did back then too. I get that accuracy and consistency problems are normal for young QB's. I understood it back then too.

The bottom line is still the bottom line. Siemian isn't playing well, and is trending downwards. That's bad.

Hopefully he gets better and I'll be able to see it between shoving pork rinds into my mouth breathing face hole.

P.S. I'm really sorry that you identify so closely with posters like Lynch12 that you took so personally comments about fanbois. I truly am sorry, but that probably explains your avvy, right.

wayninja
11-03-2016, 10:40 AM
P.S. I'm really sorry that you identify so closely with posters like Lynch12 that you took so personally comments about fanbois. I truly am sorry, but that probably explains your avvy, right.

I identify with Lynch12? Interesting. I did not know that.

My avvy is an oil painting of my son eating tacos. True story. Here's the full image:

9655

Tned
11-03-2016, 10:54 AM
I identify with Lynch12? Interesting. I did not know that.

My avvy is an oil painting of my son eating tacos. True story. Here's the full image:

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=9655&stc=1

It's a good pic. The burning question is why does he look so distressed about eating tacos. Tacos are good.

wayninja
11-03-2016, 11:12 AM
It's a good pic. The burning question is why does he look so distressed about eating tacos. Tacos are good.

I'm glad you asked.

He was supposed to look distressed. It was a photo contest from barilla pasta. The idea was to submit photos of mealtime meltdowns. The prize was a giant oil painting of the winning picture. It makes me laugh every time I look at it.

Having said that, it's a struggle to get that boy to eat any conglomerate food. He won't eat something if it's touched something else. Even if he likes both things. It's a first world problem.

Edit:
Here's the original submitted pic. I have to say that I'm very pleased at the direction of this thread.

9656

Tned
11-03-2016, 11:16 AM
I'm glad you asked.

He was supposed to look distressed. It was a photo contest from barilla pasta. The idea was to submit photos of mealtime meltdowns. The prize was a giant oil painting of the winning picture. It makes me laugh every time I look at it.

Having said that, it's a struggle to get that boy to eat any conglomerate food. He won't eat something if it's touched something else. Even if he likes both things. It's a first world problem.

That's cool. I have to say, while I like Tacos, if the choice was between a nice baked ziti vs tacos, I would look like that too (just with less hair).

dogfish
11-03-2016, 03:22 PM
damn. . . now i want tacos. . .



thanks a lot, obama!

Tned
11-03-2016, 04:03 PM
damn. . . now i want tacos. . .



thanks a lot, obama!

Now I want baked ziti.

PatriotsGuy
11-03-2016, 07:14 PM
Now I want baked ziti.

With meatballs

Tned
11-03-2016, 07:20 PM
With meatballs

And some Italian sausage and braciole.