Broncos trade for Patriot's TE AJ Derby

[GEM]

Traded with a 2017 5th round pick.

[GEM]

2015 6th round draft pick.

0hCUeVcVryg

[DenBronx]

Saying Patriots will get a 2017 5th round pick from Broncos.

#fleeced #patriotsgothoodwinked #highwayrobbery

[VonDoom]

So the Pats draft the guy in the 6th round, he's hurt all last year and then they trade him to us for a 5th rounder? I'm skeptical that any deal with Belichick ever works out for the other team.

[VonDoom]

ENGLEWOOD, Colo. — A week before the NFL's trade deadline, the Broncos made a deal Tuesday to acquire Patriots tight end A.J. Derby. In exchange, Denver will send New England a fifth-round pick in 2017.

"A.J. is a young tight end who can help us immediately," said Executive Vice President of Football Operations/General Manager John Elway. "He has tremendous upside and will fit in well on our team."

Derby, a second-year player out of Arkansas, was a sixth-round pick by New England in the 2015 NFL Draft but missed his entire rookie season on injured reserve.

After recovering, Derby showed enough to earn a roster spot in his second season, but with proficient veterans Rob Gronkowski and Martellus Bennett in front of him, he has only seen 36 snaps in the regular season on offense. In preseason action, Derby caught 15 passes for 189 yards and one touchdown.

"A.J. has had a solid and pretty consistent several months for us here, going all the way back to the spring, to the offseason program, to (organized team activities), minicamp, training camp," Patriots head coach Bill Belichick said Aug. 19.

"He’s improving. He’s a young player that only played the position for a short amount of time, basically a year down in Arkansas, has a lot to learn, has a ways to go, but has some skills to work with. He’s a smart kid, he works hard, and he’s gotten better. He’s making some plays for us in the kicking game, some tackles in coverage. He has caught the ball and blocked competitively. He’s done some good things."

At 6-foot-5 and 255 pounds, Derby boasts a large frame as a former quarterback. The former Razorback spent all but one season as a quarterback before transitioning to tight end before his senior season. He recorded 22 receptions, 303 receiving yards and three touchdowns that year.

The Broncos will need to make a corresponding move to clear a spot on the active roster for Derby

http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Broncos-agree-to-terms-with-Patriots-on-trade-for-TE-AJ-Derby/b92ab3de-0b2d-45be-afc4-e612522d7e23

[Bronco4ever]

Looks like a big guy. Can he be any worse than what we're putting out there now?

[VonDoom]

Looks like a big guy. Can he be any worse than what we're putting out there now?

The real question is what's better - the guys we're putting out there now, or this guy and giving up a fifth rounder?

[Slick]

Denver is getting absolutely no production from the TE position. It's ridiculous. Teams don't even have to defend the middle of the field. This seems like a desperation trade. Guy has 0 catches this season.

[GEM]

He looks like a pretty good blocker. The end of the youtube has a lot of his blocks and looks pretty good.

[Traveler]

Who gets cut?

[wayninja]

This is a head scratcher to me. The only thing I can think is what others have said... they want another decent blocker to help the o-line?

[VonDoom]

Denver is getting absolutely no production from the TE position. It's ridiculous. Teams don't even have to defend the middle of the field. This seems like a desperation trade. Guy has 0 catches this season.

But he shined in the preseason!

[VonDoom]

Who gets cut?

Unless we're keeping four mostly useless TE, John Phillips would be my guess.

[GEM]

Who gets cut?

Brandon Stokely just said it's a direct hit at Jeff Heuerman. He also said John Phillips hasn't been a great pass catching TE or a great blocking TE. Maybe Phillips is on the block?

[swaiy]

Denver is getting absolutely no production from the TE position. It's ridiculous. Teams don't even have to defend the middle of the field. This seems like a desperation trade. Guy has 0 catches this season.

Let's be honest, he was never going to get snaps playing behind Gronkowski and Bennett.

[Bronco4ever]

The real question is what's better - the guys we're putting out there now, or this guy and giving up a fifth rounder?

A fifth seems pretty steep. Time will tell. I quickly checked a Pats forum and they seemed to like him. This guy wasn't going to play much behind Gronk and Bennett, so I guess we'll have to hope he's a diamond in the rough.

[Slick]

Let's be honest, he was never going to get snaps playing behind Gronkowski and Bennett.

Gronk missed time this year.

[Simple Jaded]

They cNt dump Heuerman, he's one of two TE's that has potential to be more than just a typical Kubiak scrub.

Sooner or later you'd hope they come to the realization that it's not who they bring in that's the problem, it's what they're looking for that's the problem.

If you keep bringing in Dreessen, Daniels and Graham you're going to keep getting Dreessen, Daniels and Graham.

This Derby fits Kubiak's TE mold to a "T", 6-3/250 with average speed, ability and marginal blocking. And white, seemingly has to be white.

[Timmy!]

Well since we have a flaming dumpster fire at TE, I'll take it.

[swaiy]

Gronk missed time this year.

At the beginning of the season, yeah.

My point is, if those two are healthy, he's not getting on the field.

Everything I'm reading about the guy seems to be good. Considering the Broncos TEs are cheeks as far as production, why not take the risk he turns into something? A 5th round pick in a year where the Broncos have alot of picks and comp picks can be traded... I'm not seeing too much of a risk.

[VonDoom]

Interesting that the article I quoted used to say fifth round pick and now just says a draft pick. Wonder if that was wrong

[dogfish]

They cNt dump Heuerman, he's one of two TE's that has potential to be more than just a typical Kubiak scrub.


yeah. . . they'll have to wait a year or two, THEN dump him. . .

TE has to be the single worst position on the roster, so it makes sense to make a move. . . you have to at least try, right? we're certainly not getting anything at all from the guys we have there now-- virgil green is far and away the best of the group, and he's not better than a warm body. . . i'm betting they address it for real this off season (in fairness, spending a second on heurmann at least represents a legit effort). . .

[OrangeHoof]

Nicknamed: "Roller". Blocks like he's on skates...

[Simple Jaded]

yeah. . . they'll have to wait a year or two, THEN dump him. . .

TE has to be the single worst position on the roster, so it makes sense to make a move. . . you have to at least try, right? we're certainly not getting anything at all from the guys we have there now-- virgil green is far and away the best of the group, and he's not better than a warm body. . . i'm betting they address it for real this off season (in fairness, spending a second on heurmann at least represents a legit effort). . .

I bet Heuerman has until end of TC 2017, I think that's reasonable. The FO and coaching staff have seemingly dropped the ball on this OL/TE's. Pariani is a good position coach though. I don't personally care if they find a JT receiving threat either, a Heath Miller suits me just fine.

[NightTrainLayne]

FWIW, WTE says that many GMs were inquiring about Darby at the end of pre-season.

[Dapper Dan]

I approve.

[GEM]

And the cut is....Shiloh Keo.

[wayninja]

Say it 'aint so Keo!

[NightTrainLayne]

And the cut is....Shiloh Keo.

Damn, poor guy, cut twice in just a few weeks.

Who was that TE years ago that Shanahan cut and re-signed like four times. :)

[GEM]

Damn, poor guy, cut twice in just a few weeks.

Who was that TE years ago that Shanahan cut and re-signed like four times. :)

Mustard.

[BroncoWave]

And the cut is....Shiloh Keo.

He's like the new age Chad Mustard. :lol:

[BroncoWave]

Dammit, beat me to it!

[Poet]

Shanahan cut the mustard?

[Dapper Dan]

Shanahan cut the mustard?

Did you see Shanahan before the game last night? Seeing him on TV made me happy.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

from article:


However, the Broncos felt Derby was worth the price for three reasons: One, the team is expected to receive up to four compensatory draft picks in 2017 for losing the likes of Brock Osweiler, Malik Jackson Danny Trevathan, David Bruton and Ryan Harris to free agency.

Two, the Broncos clearly aren’t satisfied with their tight end position because of injuries to Virgil Green and injury and slow development of former third-round draft pick Jeff Heuerman. Veteran John Phillips was signed as a street free agent on the eve of training camp and has been getting decent playing time through the team's first seven games.

And three, the Broncos’ personnel and coaching staff either loved Derby’s talent either as they evaluated him as he entered the 2015 draft, or watched him have 15 catches for 189 yards during the 2016 preseason.

Broncos general manager John Elway and Kubiak have both said they expect Derby to contribute quickly. The Broncos have signed, acquired, drafted and waived numerous young tight ends since Kubiak became their head coach in 2015.

full article - http://www.9news.com/sports/broncos-acquire-tight-end-derby-for-fifth-round-pick/341662783

[underrated29]

The answer is Butt in this coming draft.


PS- they cut Keo via twitter
#nonotreally

[VonDoom]

The answer is Butt in this coming draft.


PS- they cut Keo via twitter
#nonotreally

I don't know if I'm mature enough to handle having a guy named Butt on our team

[VonDoom]

Giving up a fifth for this random guy makes me wonder why we didn't even consider giving up a fourth for Bennett this past offseason. Pats basically stole him

[spikerman]

And white, seemingly has to be white.

Virgil Green says "hi" and, while I realize he didn't bring him in, he did make him the starter.

[gohogs14]

Derby is an interesting guy. Was a 4 star athlete coming out of high school, played LB and QB at Iowa, then transferred to Arkansas as a backup QB (which he was awful at) before moving to TE his senior year. He played as the #2 TE to Hunter Henry and showed a ton of potential even though he missed two games. So this is only his 3rd year playing TE but athletically he has shown a lot of promise. He outran Alabama's defense on a short crossing route and took it for a touchdown so that was pretty impressive. Had a great preseason too.

[Dapper Dan]

I don't know if I'm mature enough to handle having a guy named Butt on our team

I really hope his first name is Richard.

[OrangeHoof]

Or Ophelia.

[BroncoWave]

I really hope his first name is Richard.

It's Jake unfortunately.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I really hope his first name is Richard.

I was hoping for Harold. (Harry for short of course).

[NightTerror218]

Giving up a fifth for this random guy makes me wonder why we didn't even consider giving up a fourth for Bennett this past offseason. Pats basically stole him

Prob cause bennett has a higher salary?

Pats always make killer trades. Waiting for them to get joe thomas for cheap.

[Lynch12]

Looks pretty fluid as a athlete and can block, I like what I see, I think he can come in and help immediately.

[Joel]

Sincere question: How many times has a second-year 6th rounder traded for a 5th ever amounted to anything? My subjective recollection is that valuable players tend to be, well, VALUED. There couldn't have been THAT many GMs bidding if a lone (and likely low) 5th round pick won the auction.

[Lynch12]

Doesn't matter what your history says, trends change, players change, players blossom ad players fail, gm's miss, coaches miss. This guy has talent.

[Simple Jaded]

Virgil Green says "hi" and, while I realize he didn't bring him in, he did make him the starter.

One of my favorite players, tell Token I said "hi" for me.

[Valar Morghulis]

Wte says something about him being good in another thread

[NightTrainLayne]

Wte says something about him being good in another thread

He also said I was a great guy! I love WTE.

[Broncoknight30]

Two general rules of thumb...

1. Never make a trade for a player from a team within your division.

2. Never make a trade with Belichick, where Mcdaniels is, if you are the Denver Broncos.

No team within your own division is interested in making you better. Belichick, I am pretty confident, hates the Broncos. Even though the Broncos under Joe Collier taught him the nuances of the 3-4 when he was a gofer in 1978.

[LawDog]

I was hoping for Harold. (Harry for short of course).

Schweddy?

[FanInAZ]

Sincere question: How many times has a second-year 6th rounder traded for a 5th ever amounted to anything? My subjective recollection is that valuable players tend to be, well, VALUED. There couldn't have been THAT many GMs bidding if a lone (and likely low) 5th round pick won the auction.

Good question. You asked it, so you do the research to find the answer.

[Joel]

Good question. You asked it, so you do the research to find the answer.
If I thought it were that simple, I'd have done precisely that instead of asking the question.

[Magnificent Seven]

Who gets cut?

Keo

[FanInAZ]

If I thought it were that simple, I'd have done precisely that instead of asking the question.

The question is unanswerable by anyone who isn't employed for the sole purpose of answering such questions. The scenario you ask, "How many times has a second-year 6th rounder traded for a 5th ever amounted to anything," is too specific.

[Joel]

The question is unanswerable by anyone who isn't employed for the sole purpose of answering such questions. The scenario you ask, "How many times has a second-year 6th rounder traded for a 5th ever amounted to anything," is too specific.
This is what happens when people who take things too literally are left alone together. :tongue: And yes, I realize that phrase is a contradiction in terms. ;)

So let me be LESS specific: How often (roughly) has a player

1) Taken on the last day of the draft,
2) Traded the following year for
3) a marginally higher pick in the very next draft,
4) after barely playing

ever turned out to be worth so much as a PS spot? I'm not asking for a precise figure, since that would entail a lot of digging through a lot of very small weeds. It'd probably be easier (but less reliably thorough) to focus on the trees to the exclusion of the forest, since there can't be many any event (because early picks wouldn't be so highly valued if late picks proved equally good equally often, plus NFL scouting would be the least competent and least secure career on Earth.)

I mean, OK, a 5th round pick's not gold-plated, but it's hardly WORTHLESS either: What are the historical odds players in Derbys position are? Every team in the league rejected him FIVE TIMES last year, and most did so a SIXTH time before NE* finally pulled the trigger. Ironically, we could've taken him then if they hadn't: We picked Kilgo right after they picked Derby. And for all the gushing about him in Cheatriots fora and media, again, if there were THAT mean teams belatedly chasing him once NE* put him on the block, how'd we get him for a lone 5th round pick?

Anything's possible, but the odds we come out ahead here basically boil down to whether Elway or Belicheat is a better talent evaluator. History would argue against THAT even if Belicheat hadn't seen Derby in every single practice for an entire year. Throw in the loss of Keo, who's actually made some plays (including during our SB run) and can't simply be stashed on the PS, and I'm not optimistic (so what else is new? ;))

[Valar Morghulis]

This is what happens when people who take things too literally are left alone together. :tongue: And yes, I realize that phrase is a contradiction in terms. ;) So let me be LESS specific: How often (roughly) has a player 1) Taken on the last day of the draft, 2) Traded the following year for 3) a marginally higher pick in the very next draft, 4) after barely playing ever turned out to be worth so much as a PS spot? I'm not asking for a precise figure, since that would entail a lot of digging through a lot of very small weeds. It'd probably be easier (but less reliably thorough) to focus on the trees to the exclusion of the forest, since there can't be many any event (because early picks wouldn't be so highly valued if late picks proved equally good equally often, plus NFL scouting would be the least competent and least secure career on Earth.) I mean, OK, a 5th round pick's not gold-plated, but it's hardly WORTHLESS either: What are the historical odds players in Derbys position are? Every team in the league rejected him FIVE TIMES last year, and most did so a SIXTH time before NE* finally pulled the trigger. Ironically, we could've taken him then if they hadn't: We picked Kilgo right after they picked Derby. And for all the gushing about him in Cheatriots fora and media, again, if there were THAT mean teams belatedly chasing him once NE* put him on the block, how'd we get him for a lone 5th round pick? Anything's possible, but the odds we come out ahead here basically boil down to whether Elway or Belicheat is a better talent evaluator. History would argue against THAT even if Belicheat hadn't seen Derby in every single practice for an entire year. Throw in the loss of Keo, who's actually made some plays (including during our SB run) and can't simply be stashed on the PS, and I'm not optimistic (so what else is new? ;))

This is what happens when people who take things too literally are left alone together.

LMAO you crack me up

[FanInAZ]

This is what happens when people who take things too literally are left alone together. :tongue: And yes, I realize that phrase is a contradiction in terms. ;)

So let me be LESS specific: How often (roughly) has a player

1) Taken on the last day of the draft,
2) Traded the following year for
3) a marginally higher pick in the very next draft,
4) after barely playing

ever turned out to be worth so much as a PS spot? I'm not asking for a precise figure, since that would entail a lot of digging through a lot of very small weeds. It'd probably be easier (but less reliably thorough) to focus on the trees to the exclusion of the forest, since there can't be many any event (because early picks wouldn't be so highly valued if late picks proved equally good equally often, plus NFL scouting would be the least competent and least secure career on Earth.)

I mean, OK, a 5th round pick's not gold-plated, but it's hardly WORTHLESS either: What are the historical odds players in Derbys position are? Every team in the league rejected him FIVE TIMES last year, and most did so a SIXTH time before NE* finally pulled the trigger. Ironically, we could've taken him then if they hadn't: We picked Kilgo right after they picked Derby. And for all the gushing about him in Cheatriots fora and media, again, if there were THAT mean teams belatedly chasing him once NE* put him on the block, how'd we get him for a lone 5th round pick?

Anything's possible, but the odds we come out ahead here basically boil down to whether Elway or Belicheat is a better talent evaluator. History would argue against THAT even if Belicheat hadn't seen Derby in every single practice for an entire year. Throw in the loss of Keo, who's actually made some plays (including during our SB run) and can't simply be stashed on the PS, and I'm not optimistic (so what else is new? ;))

This was 1 time where I could try to debate you or get you to talk yourself into making my point for me :D

Your original question, "How many times has a second-year 6th rounder traded for a 5th ever amounted to anything," denoted the assumption that statistical analysis would show that such trades rarely amount to anything. Your big long response to me, in which you laid out all of the known facts that we can draw on, suggests that maybe it could work out & so let's just wait & see.

[FanInAZ]

This is what happens when people who take things too literally are left alone together.

LMAO you crack me up

I wasn't being literal, I was being clever ;)