Broncos Gameday Thread: Broncos vs Chargers 10/13/16

[Broncoknight30]

The problem if you let one go is that you only have one reliable offensive weapon. I'm not sure that trading that for o-line help would make our offense that much better.

The problem in this hard cap league is you need to really understand VALUE of positions. If we list the TOP wrs of the last 15 years or so, the top fantasy football stat guys don't have rings. Randy Moss, Terrell Owens, Larry Fitzgerald, Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson, etc etc.

Obviously there are exceptions like a Marvin Harrison, but I can sum it like this.

DT in SB 48 broke Jerry Rice’s record as far as catches in SB. I think he caught like 13 or so for over 100 yards. Broncos smoked. A complete non factor.

In SB 50, he had 1 catch for 8 yards. That to me speaks volumes about what is most important. Especially in this hard cap league and those divas command just too much.

Btw, just another little tidbit that is interesting to me. Top 10 most prolific passing offenses, only ONE won the SB that year. The 99 Rams, and they struggled to score in their NFCCG against the Bucs.

To me of the LOS is dominated, then you win far more often. A great defense always gives a team a chance. Those two areas to me is where the real VALUE is. Once a WR commands too much, it is not worth it. Would I love it to be there for every player we like? Of course.

Put it another way. I would rather this team have Jackson AND Trevathan instead of DT. I like DT too. Although he does annoy me sometimes.

[BroncoJoe]

How many games have we had consistent starters playing together on the OL?

I hate to say it, but maybe we just need the starters healthy so they can gel and effectively play together. Seems like we keep shuffling the line due to injuries, and that's never good for an OL.

[BroncoJoe]

So, I went and looked up our starters for each game, and my post above isn't accurate. Strange, because I though they were shuffling the OL a lot.

Panther starting OL:
Russell Okung LT
Max Garcia LG
Matt Paradis C
Michael Schofield RG
Donald Stephenson RT

Starters Colts:
Russell Okung LT
Max Garcia LG
Matt Paradis C
Michael Schofield RG
Donald Stephenson RT

Starters Bengals:
Russell Okung LT
Max Garcia LG
Matt Paradis C
Michael Schofield RG
Ty Sambrailo RT

Starters Bucs
Russell Okung LT
Max Garcia LG
Matt Paradis C
Michael Schofield RG
Ty Sambrailo RT

Starters Falcons
Russell Okung LT
Max Garcia LG
Matt Paradis C
Michael Schofield RG
Ty Sambrailo RT

Starters Chargers:
Russell Okung LT
Max Garcia LG
Matt Paradis C
Michael Schofield RG
Donald Stephenson RT

[Broncoknight30]

How many games have we had consistent starters playing together on the OL?

I hate to say it, but maybe we just need the starters healthy so they can gel and effectively play together. Seems like we keep shuffling the line due to injuries, and that's never good for an OL.

That is certainly one issue. I think there are a few issues and that is simply one of them. Good point.

What we saw the other night was not that to me. Horrific holding calls at the worst possible times. Okung cost the team 9 points all by himself.

Not to mention all of the holding calls that put Siemian in 3rd and longs.

Yeah, I think gelling is a part of it. Of course when I see the entire line being blown backwards on stretch runs....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNa3gZfQfH0

Watch Alex Gibbs talk about the stretch run and what he demands from the OL.

Particularly how he would chewed out any Olineman who was pushed backwards.

Good stuff. Then watch the OL play in light of what Gibbs would demand. If you have the recent games on DVR, just pay attention to the line and see why the running game is suffering.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Our line played well in the first two games. I wonder if they have some tells that are giving plays away.

[Joel]

Go ahead, Clown! Post the link (from a legitimate source) that says Siemian doesn't have a Grade 3 Separation!

I'll Wait...
For someone to prove a negative? You'll wait a long time. Maybe Lynch only sucks because he's telepathically controlled by an Arcturan warlord who's crippling the Broncos as the first stage of his master plan to conquer Earth.

I'll wait for you to prove me wrong.... ;)

[Joel]

Remember when Shanny was so fed up with our CBs that he used his 1st 3 picks of the '05 daft (2nd & 2 3rds) drafting new ones? I think I'd like to see Kubes use all of our draft picks on OL, after having already signed the best 2 or 3 best OL available in FA. I know, this is overkill, but so sick & tired of these OL issues year after year.
Yes, I recall that well, and no, it wouldn't be overkill: You use 3 or MAYBE 4 CBs unless in quarters D, but need a MINIMUM of 5 offensive linemen at all times. But it's not Kubes' call, and I've given up on Elway EVER spending a top pick on an offensive lineman; he'll spend our first pick on Slys successor before he drafts an OT, much less a G: We know, because that's how we GOT Sly.


Online issues, the defensive slow starts. Whatever!!!superstars on both sides need to make plays when it counts. One side is stepping up 90%of the time the other is a coin flip. Just embarrassing
No offense, but this seems to be Elways flawed view of the offense. Superstar "skill" players can't "step up" while FLAT ON THEIR BACKS. Unless a team has Manning, Barry and a couple Rices at the "skill" positions, it can't expect to play 6-man football in the NFL and win. When the D camps out in the offensive backfield every single play, there's no time to run, pass or even PUNT with any effectiveness.


I'd trade our comp 3rd for Brock for Joe Thomas....maybe throw in tysam
No, you wouldn't, because even Cleveland's not that dumb. The way to go was to recognize they couldn't keep Thomas AND Alex Mack and would pick Thomas, so we could sign Mack as a FA: Atlanta did. They showed what a pair 1st round OTs and a pair of 2nd round Gs (as opposed to a late 2nd round OT and a bunch of scrubs) can do to even a front seven as good as ours. That simple, and no amount of calling Elway a genius for getting us to a pair of SBs and a World Championship will change his neglect of our offensive line. We don't have Mannings quick reads and release to paper over their glaring flaws anymore, so here we are.


G, why do you think they haven't gotten it done?

i mean, a few factors are obvious. . . firstly, injuries. . . starting last year, with the clady blow-out that made us scramble all year. . . then ty sombrero turns out to be made of balsa wood. . . and possibly worst of all, schofield never manages to miss time!

but even with some excuses based on cohesion / chemistry, we've been inexcusably bad. . . we brought in better tackles, and paradis and garcia have mostly responded by playing worse. . . is it talent, scheme / fit, coaching, all of the above? or is it just early season jitters at a spot that is both low on overall talent, and undermanned in a scheme where the pressure is on them to shine?

will hang up and listen for your response. . .


San Diego ran some stunts only rushing 4 and guys were coming through untouched. When it was still happening midway through the 3rd quarter I turned the game off. I haven't done that since the Kyle Orton days. I couldn't stand watching my team play like that.
I suspect this is the problem with Paradis and Garcia (Paradis is also underpowered for a lineman, but Garcia's a mauler.) It's been a problem for US at least as far back as 2013, when these same Chargers with their same crappy D gave the GoAT fits in all three games by running stunts and delayed blitzes our slow-footed line just couldn't handle. It's why we traded Chris Clark for a SEVENTH round pick and outright released Franklin and Man-Ram. It's why we kept trying to put a gimpy Evan Mathis out there at LG all last year before finally giving up to let Garcia take his lumps and hope he learned fast; he hasn't.

This is where coaching is HUGE, because the kind and speed of recognition and response to overcome front sevens scheming for lack of talent is pure coaching. I frankly don't understand why we're not getting it done; the ONLY other time a Kubiak/Dennison line wasn't been elite was Shannys last days in Denver. This line makes that one look like the Hogs, or the early '90s Cowboys.


Sambo and Schofield were both high draft picks. Yes they have both been disappointing, but you can't say Elway hasn't at least tried to address it in the draft.
NO, they were NOT. Sambrailo was drafted at the end of the 2nd round, a decent place to get a G (it's where both Atlantas starting Gs were drafted) but an AWFUL place to take a starting OT: That's why EIGHT other OTs went before we took Sambrailo at #59. Schofield was drafted with a SB teams 3rd rounder (i.e. just a few picks from being a FOURTH rounder.) That's iffy even for a G, but for a STARTING OT it's scraping the underside of the barrel.

Sure, those guys were drafted much higher than any other Elway lineman (e.g. Vinston Painter, 6th, #173; Philip Blake, 4th, #108) but that's the only sense in which they were "high" draft picks. The highest Elway's EVER drafted a lineman was Orlando Franklin in the middle of the 2nd (right after he picked Rahim Moore, but since the picks were back-to-back we didn't risk "losing" our shot at Franklin.)


Plus he has brought in Okung and Stephenson and drafted Garcia.
It's not like he's not trying.
He's brought in guys cut due to injury or lack of talent, not All Pro cap casualties. And Garcia was drafted in basically the same spot as McGovern (i.e. #133 overall instead of #144.) That's not exactly "prioritizing" the line, and only barely "trying."


Exactly. You can question how effective the additions have been, but it's just flat out false when people try to say he has just ignored the oline.
Irony is clearly your strong suit.


I guess the question comes down to what is more important to a franchise. A stifling defense and an average OL or an average defense with a solid OL.

The hard cap puts all sorts of restraints on every franchise. I would have loved for this franchise to pay Trevathan and Malik Jackson. Not possible with Von wanting to get paid. Not possible with DT getting so much among others.

So, what is the answer? There is no perfect answer. That is the answer. The problem as I see it right now is the OL that Elway put together is either injured or not performing up to their capability. Couple that with a defense that is a little weaker without being able to sign Jackson and Trevathan (who were big parts of that defense) AND a league that is scouting and exposing the defensive weaknesses. What happens is the utter reliance on the defense last year is not going to be the formula that is going to work again.
You're entitled to your perspective, but the problem is that most of the line IS performing up to their capability, and it ain't much. Sure, Stephenson's been hurt, but he's no great shakes or he wouldn't have been KCs #3 OT the last few years, only getting to start when they let not one but TWO better ones leave as FAs. Garcia and Paradis are healthy though: They're just not very good. Just as asking which of failed OTs Schofield and Sambrailo misses the point they flat suck.


Dallas may have invested more in Oline but it hasnt paid off yet as they are weak in other areas on the team. Since Elway has taken over we have had two SB appearances with a championship. Dallas hasnt been to a SB since the mid 90's. Im careful of being uber critical of the moves the team makes when we have already achieved more than other teams that "seem" to be doing all the right things. Bottom line, ill take the success we have had here over what Dallas is doing right now. Im confident Elway and crew will get it worked out in the end.
Also missing the point: LACK of an offensive line is PRECISELY why Dallas never got back to a SB even WITH Wades elite 3-4 D. They didn't belatedly rebuild their awful line until it let one of the NFLs most accurate QBs get beat to Hell until he's been reduced to a crippled scared injury-prone mess who's lucky he's not PARALYZED. That the future you want for Lynch (or Siemian, or whoever the Hell our Might've Been Great QBotF ends up being)?


So now people are mad because Elway didn't use enough first round picks on o-linemen? Well let's look at Elway's list of first round picks since he's been here and someone please tell me which one he should have picked a lineman instead of who we got.

2011 - Von Miller - Obviously no.
Sure, go BPA with the #2 overall pick; don't "prioritize" a SINGLE need on a team that has too many to focus on just one at the expense of talent it sorely lacks. He even spent our very next pick on an OT: Orlando Franklin. It's the one but ONLY time Elway's prioritized the offensive line in any way.

2012 - Derek Wolfe - Again, one of our stars, so no one is trading him I don't think.
True as far as it goes, but would you trade Wolfe for an All Pro OT right now? Keeping in mind that Malik Jackson would probably still be on the team.


2013 - Sly Williams - I guess you could make the argument here, but he has been a solid player and people bitched for years about how our d-line was ignored, so you can't suddenly complain now that he addressed it instead of the o-line
I HAVE made that argument from the moment we drafted Sly, and got a fair amount of shit for it here. Pretend he were a RB: Is 2½ years of starts before we decline his 5th year option 1st round production? Everyone laughed at Dallas spending a 1st round pick on a CENTER just three picks later: Who's laughing now...?


2014 - Bradley Roby - Again I guess you could make the argument here, but he had been a damn good slot corner in a league in which you need a deep secondary to succeed
Yeah, been over this one a few times since it happened, too: We already had Webster, whom everyone raved about that preseason, so with Harris and Talib into the bargain we weren't exactly naked, making Roby a luxury rather than the NEED our line was and remains two years later. But the bigger issue is the same as 2014: Could we've gotten better value from a G (or trading up for an OT) than we got from Montee Ball and Cody Lattimer (our 2nd rounders in 2013 and 2014)?


2015 - Shane Ray - He's starting to look like a stud, so I don't think anyone wants to give him up do they?
Depends on Ware's health, but it's much like Roby the previous year: We ALREADY had Talib/Ware and Harris/Von, plus we'd JUST signed Webster/Barrett, so which was a better investment, a 1st round pick on a #4 player, or a STARTING offensive lineman on a team with NONE worthy of the name?


2016 - Paxton Lynch - We obviously needed a QB after losing Peyton and Brock, so no way we need a lineman instead of him.
That doesn't follow either since even the most elite QB is roadkill without decent protection and run support (e.g. Romo, Luck; David vs. Derek Carr.)


So in summary, Elway has hit on every single first round pick so far, and they have all been key cogs in our historic Super Bowl winning defense (Lynch not withstanding, obviously too early to judge). Obviously his strategy of going defense heavy early in drafts worked out better than any of us could have hoped, so it seems ridiculous to question that now.
In summary, there are more options than "spend every 1st round pick" vs. "spend 4th or later picks until it gets bad enough you finally and grudgingly spend a late 2nd rounder all of ONCE." I dispute that Ray was a "key cog" in our Championship; he only played ~25% of the season, and Barrett was at least as good for far less cost. Roby certainly contributed, but I'm not sure he was KEY; he wasn't as indispensable as a decent blocker has proven.

Bottom line: Taking a bunch of 4th and 5th round before finally deigning to draft the NINTH OT taken in 2015 (a season after taking the TENTH OT,) and signing castoffs like a beat up over the hill Mathis two weeks before Opening Day, KCs #3 OT the past few years or a beat up Okung aren't "addressing an obvious and widely documented need." It wasn't in 2014, wasn't in 2015, and isn't in 2016. We don't have Manning to save us from the line beating the Hell out of him anymore: We have a sophomore 7th rounder and a raw rookie QBotF who need all the help their line can give them. Sadly, that's not much, and it's on Elway.

Now look what you people made me do. :tsk: At least the Raiders lost, and to a divisional team at that. Makes me wonder if ANY of the AFCW is decent; the only wins by any of us have been against crappy teams and each other (if there's a difference.)

[FanInAZ]

Joel, you'd be much better off not packing 10 unrelated conversations into 1 post :nod:

[BroncoWave]

Jesus Christ, Joel. Ain't nobody got time for that.

[Joel]

Joel, you'd be much better off not packing 10 unrelated conversations into 1 post :nod:
They're not unrelated: Every last one of them's about our offensive line (to the extent we have one.) And take up far less space than displaying my avatar and sig a dozen times. It's a response to virtually every comment about our line in the last DOZEN pages—with quotes. Given that, it's pretty compact.

[Broncoknight30]

Yeah, Joel when I say play up to their capabilities, I am talking about the mental mistakes. The 12 penalties (horrible holding calls) and 10 in the second half is totally unacceptable. That is unacceptable at a HS level, let alone for a defending SB championship team.

They are not a good unit though.

[FanInAZ]

Yeah, Joel when I say play up to their capabilities, I am talking about the mental mistakes. The 12 penalties (horrible holding calls) and 10 in the second half is totally unacceptable. That is unacceptable at a HS level, let alone for a defending SB championship team.

They are not a good unit though.

Offsides is are mental mistakes, I believe holding is usually a desperation after getting beat, which usually the result of going up against a superior opponent. In those situations, holding isn't a mental issue, its an inferiority issue.

[Joel]

Yeah, Joel when I say play up to their capabilities, I am talking about the mental mistakes. The 12 penalties (horrible holding calls) and 10 in the second half is totally unacceptable. That is unacceptable at a HS level, let alone for a defending SB championship team.
Ah, fair enough, and unless someone else took all their college exams for them that should be coachable. We can only do so much in the weight room to build muscle on frames that can't handle it, but I'm getting really sick of our guards left chasing their tails by stunts, or our QBs flattened because safeties and LBs can fake out our linemen by simply hesitating half a second before charging. No excuse for that kind of "coaching," and it predates the Kubiak/Dennison/Barone regime.


They are not a good unit though.
On that much we agree. Maybe it's more about agility, reflexes and reaction speed; the kinds of things our ZBS is supposed to be drafting for at the expense of raw strength. It would certainly explain why different linemen keep biting on the same stunts under both Fox and Kubiak: What's the lone commonality...?

[olathebroncofan]

Mods...is there a way to limit posters to 140 characters or less?

[FanInAZ]

Mods...is there a way to limit posters to 140 characters or less?

I'd have no use for this site if the mods imposed tweeter restrictions on us.

[Tned]

Mods...is there a way to limit posters to 140 characters or less?

Have you tried www.Broncosforumstweets.com ? It takes all forum posts, runs it through a special algorithm that I created, and boils them all down to Tweet sized chunks.

[Lynch12]

Yes, I recall that well, and no, it wouldn't be overkill: You use 3 or MAYBE 4 CBs unless in quarters D, but need a MINIMUM of 5 offensive linemen at all times. But it's not Kubes' call, and I've given up on Elway EVER spending a top pick on an offensive lineman; he'll spend our first pick on Slys successor before he drafts an OT, much less a G: We know, because that's how we GOT Sly.


No offense, but this seems to be Elways flawed view of the offense. Superstar "skill" players can't "step up" while FLAT ON THEIR BACKS. Unless a team has Manning, Barry and a couple Rices at the "skill" positions, it can't expect to play 6-man football in the NFL and win. When the D camps out in the offensive backfield every single play, there's no time to run, pass or even PUNT with any effectiveness.


No, you wouldn't, because even Cleveland's not that dumb. The way to go was to recognize they couldn't keep Thomas AND Alex Mack and would pick Thomas, so we could sign Mack as a FA: Atlanta did. They showed what a pair 1st round OTs and a pair of 2nd round Gs (as opposed to a late 2nd round OT and a bunch of scrubs) can do to even a front seven as good as ours. That simple, and no amount of calling Elway a genius for getting us to a pair of SBs and a World Championship will change his neglect of our offensive line. We don't have Mannings quick reads and release to paper over their glaring flaws anymore, so here we are.




I suspect this is the problem with Paradis and Garcia (Paradis is also underpowered for a lineman, but Garcia's a mauler.) It's been a problem for US at least as far back as 2013, when these same Chargers with their same crappy D gave the GoAT fits in all three games by running stunts and delayed blitzes our slow-footed line just couldn't handle. It's why we traded Chris Clark for a SEVENTH round pick and outright released Franklin and Man-Ram. It's why we kept trying to put a gimpy Evan Mathis out there at LG all last year before finally giving up to let Garcia take his lumps and hope he learned fast; he hasn't.

This is where coaching is HUGE, because the kind and speed of recognition and response to overcome front sevens scheming for lack of talent is pure coaching. I frankly don't understand why we're not getting it done; the ONLY other time a Kubiak/Dennison line wasn't been elite was Shannys last days in Denver. This line makes that one look like the Hogs, or the early '90s Cowboys.


NO, they were NOT. Sambrailo was drafted at the end of the 2nd round, a decent place to get a G (it's where both Atlantas starting Gs were drafted) but an AWFUL place to take a starting OT: That's why EIGHT other OTs went before we took Sambrailo at #59. Schofield was drafted with a SB teams 3rd rounder (i.e. just a few picks from being a FOURTH rounder.) That's iffy even for a G, but for a STARTING OT it's scraping the underside of the barrel.

Sure, those guys were drafted much higher than any other Elway lineman (e.g. Vinston Painter, 6th, #173; Philip Blake, 4th, #108) but that's the only sense in which they were "high" draft picks. The highest Elway's EVER drafted a lineman was Orlando Franklin in the middle of the 2nd (right after he picked Rahim Moore, but since the picks were back-to-back we didn't risk "losing" our shot at Franklin.)


He's brought in guys cut due to injury or lack of talent, not All Pro cap casualties. And Garcia was drafted in basically the same spot as McGovern (i.e. #133 overall instead of #144.) That's not exactly "prioritizing" the line, and only barely "trying."


Irony is clearly your strong suit.


You're entitled to your perspective, but the problem is that most of the line IS performing up to their capability, and it ain't much. Sure, Stephenson's been hurt, but he's no great shakes or he wouldn't have been KCs #3 OT the last few years, only getting to start when they let not one but TWO better ones leave as FAs. Garcia and Paradis are healthy though: They're just not very good. Just as asking which of failed OTs Schofield and Sambrailo misses the point they flat suck.


Also missing the point: LACK of an offensive line is PRECISELY why Dallas never got back to a SB even WITH Wades elite 3-4 D. They didn't belatedly rebuild their awful line until it let one of the NFLs most accurate QBs get beat to Hell until he's been reduced to a crippled scared injury-prone mess who's lucky he's not PARALYZED. That the future you want for Lynch (or Siemian, or whoever the Hell our Might've Been Great QBotF ends up being)?


Sure, go BPA with the #2 overall pick; don't "prioritize" a SINGLE need on a team that has too many to focus on just one at the expense of talent it sorely lacks. He even spent our very next pick on an OT: Orlando Franklin. It's the one but ONLY time Elway's prioritized the offensive line in any way.

True as far as it goes, but would you trade Wolfe for an All Pro OT right now? Keeping in mind that Malik Jackson would probably still be on the team.


I HAVE made that argument from the moment we drafted Sly, and got a fair amount of shit for it here. Pretend he were a RB: Is 2½ years of starts before we decline his 5th year option 1st round production? Everyone laughed at Dallas spending a 1st round pick on a CENTER just three picks later: Who's laughing now...?


Yeah, been over this one a few times since it happened, too: We already had Webster, whom everyone raved about that preseason, so with Harris and Talib into the bargain we weren't exactly naked, making Roby a luxury rather than the NEED our line was and remains two years later. But the bigger issue is the same as 2014: Could we've gotten better value from a G (or trading up for an OT) than we got from Montee Ball and Cody Lattimer (our 2nd rounders in 2013 and 2014)?


Depends on Ware's health, but it's much like Roby the previous year: We ALREADY had Talib/Ware and Harris/Von, plus we'd JUST signed Webster/Barrett, so which was a better investment, a 1st round pick on a #4 player, or a STARTING offensive lineman on a team with NONE worthy of the name?


That doesn't follow either since even the most elite QB is roadkill without decent protection and run support (e.g. Romo, Luck; David vs. Derek Carr.)


In summary, there are more options than "spend every 1st round pick" vs. "spend 4th or later picks until it gets bad enough you finally and grudgingly spend a late 2nd rounder all of ONCE." I dispute that Ray was a "key cog" in our Championship; he only played ~25% of the season, and Barrett was at least as good for far less cost. Roby certainly contributed, but I'm not sure he was KEY; he wasn't as indispensable as a decent blocker has proven.

Bottom line: Taking a bunch of 4th and 5th round before finally deigning to draft the NINTH OT taken in 2015 (a season after taking the TENTH OT,) and signing castoffs like a beat up over the hill Mathis two weeks before Opening Day, KCs #3 OT the past few years or a beat up Okung aren't "addressing an obvious and widely documented need." It wasn't in 2014, wasn't in 2015, and isn't in 2016. We don't have Manning to save us from the line beating the Hell out of him anymore: We have a sophomore 7th rounder and a raw rookie QBotF who need all the help their line can give them. Sadly, that's not much, and it's on Elway.

Now look what you people made me do. :tsk: At least the Raiders lost, and to a divisional team at that. Makes me wonder if ANY of the AFCW is decent; the only wins by any of us have been against crappy teams and each other (if there's a difference.)

Good grief.

[Lynch12]

Jesus Christ, Joel. Ain't nobody got time for that.

You'd really have to be a fan of any poster to actually read all of that. I've noticed in short time being here that he repeats the same things over and over, maybe if that wasn't the case I could have read such a long post that was about multiple things.

[Lynch12]

And for the record I wouldn't trade roby or shane ray, however going forward it's time to use our first 4 picks on offensive line.

[7DnBrnc53]

This is where coaching is HUGE, because the kind and speed of recognition and response to overcome front sevens scheming for lack of talent is pure coaching. I frankly don't understand why we're not getting it done; the ONLY other time a Kubiak/Dennison line wasn't been elite was Shannys last days in Denver. This line makes that one look like the Hogs, or the early '90s Cowboys.

Actually, Joel, the 2008 Bronco Line (Clady, Hamilton, Wiegmann, Kuper, Harris) was elite (Shanny's last year). However, from 2001-07, it wasn't. They were starting guys like Trey Teague, Lennie Friedman (the first two were playing LT and LG in 2001, for crying out loud), Steve Herndon, and first round bust George Foster.


NO, they were NOT. Sambrailo was drafted at the end of the 2nd round, a decent place to get a G (it's where both Atlantas starting Gs were drafted) but an AWFUL place to take a starting OT: That's why EIGHT other OTs went before we took Sambrailo at #59. Schofield was drafted with a SB teams 3rd rounder (i.e. just a few picks from being a FOURTH rounder.) That's iffy even for a G, but for a STARTING OT it's scraping the underside of the barrel.

Sure, those guys were drafted much higher than any other Elway lineman (e.g. Vinston Painter, 6th, #173; Philip Blake, 4th, #108) but that's the only sense in which they were "high" draft picks. The highest Elway's EVER drafted a lineman was Orlando Franklin in the middle of the 2nd (right after he picked Rahim Moore, but since the picks were back-to-back we didn't risk "losing" our shot at Franklin.)


I didn't like the Sambrailo pick at the time. I felt like the Broncos should have taken Oregon OT-OG Jake Fisher in Round 1 and someone like OLB Eli Harold (or UCLA OLB/DE Owa Osdfgetgwet or whatever his name was) in round 2.

As for Blake, I thought he would be the center of the future. I was dead wrong.


That doesn't follow either since even the most elite QB is roadkill without decent protection and run support (e.g. Romo, Luck; David vs. Derek Carr.)

The Lynch pick doesn't look great right now (since the Broncos could have used that on Indiana OT Jason Spriggs and then got the Dak Attack [as Skip Tebow refers to him as] in Round 2 over Gotsis, who was a reach), but we have to give it time.

[Broncoknight30]

Actually, Joel, the 2008 Bronco Line (Clady, Hamilton, Wiegmann, Kuper, Harris) was elite (Shanny's last year). However, from 2001-07, it wasn't. They were starting guys like Trey Teague, Lennie Friedman (the first two were playing LT and LG in 2001, for crying out loud), Steve Herndon, and first round bust George Foster.

Yeah, that OL in 2008 was very good. You know they only gave up 11 sacks in 616 attempts by Jay (poopy pants) Cutler? Yet, of course poopy pants was second in the NFL in ints and 5 of those were in the red zone.

Anyway, yeah that line was very good.

I will say this though about the lines from 2001-2007, they were pretty decent at run blocking. The Broncos were consistently in the top 5 in rushing. Including 2 1000 yard rushers in 2005 (Actually technically, Tatum Bell rushed for 921 yards.)

The Broncos offense all during those years I thought was pretty consistent. I always liked Jake Plummer for the offense.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Yeah, that OL in 2008 was very good. You know they only gave up 11 sacks in 616 attempts by Jay (poopy pants) Cutler? Yet, of course poopy pants was second in the NFL in ints and 5 of those were in the red zone.

Anyway, yeah that line was very good.

I will say this though about the lines from 2001-2007, they were pretty decent at run blocking. The Broncos were consistently in the top 5 in rushing. Including 2 1000 yard rushers in 2005 (Actually technically, Tatum Bell rushed for 921 yards.)

The Broncos offense all during those years I thought was pretty consistent. I always liked Jake Plummer for the offense.

Clady was really good that year. He only gave up half a sack.