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BroncoWave
10-09-2016, 06:03 PM
Good:

Sanders - Dude was catching everything today. Definitely the one bright spot on offense today.

Von - He was wreaking havoc on Atlanta today. He has balled week in and week out this year.

Ray - Another solid game from him with another sack today.

Ward - Kept us in the game with that huge strip. Just too little too late.

That's about all I got. Not much good today.

Bad:

O-line - Good god were they bad today. Yes they are banged up, but that was just not an acceptable performance against a poor defense in Atlanta.

Run D - Got gashed by them all day. It's been a problem all year, but it really reared it's head today. Not our best tackling day either.

Pass D on RBs - Just left their backs open all day and it cost us. We have to clean that up.

Lynch - He looked completely lost out there today. Siemian is definitely safe in keeping his job for a while.

Latimer - That ass hole needs to stop taking kicks out from 5 yards deep. Get that idiot off the team if that's all he can contribute.


Overall, just a bad loss all around. Hopefully we just flush this one and get ready for San Diego this week.

Mike
10-09-2016, 06:14 PM
CJ has looked really slow and lackadaisical the last couple of games. He deserves to be on the bad list, I think.

BroncoWave
10-09-2016, 06:15 PM
CJ has looked really slow and lackadaisical the last couple of games. He deserves to be on the bad list, I think.

He was so forgettable today I forgot to even put him on the list. I agree though. Booker definitely showed more burst today than CJ did.

DenBronx
10-09-2016, 06:17 PM
Talib and Harris did good I thought, given the circumstances.

I have no doubt that this was a winnable game with Siemian. At least this will quiet down any QB controversy if there even was one. Lynch just isn't ready and that's ok. If there was a loss to give the this was it.

Like I said in other threads, Trevors strength is his accuracy, composure and his knowledge of the playbook. He just looks way more comfortable and he can spin it as good as I've seen. I really hope he plays Thursday.

Mike
10-09-2016, 06:18 PM
Talib and Harris did good I thought, given the circumstances.

I have no doubt that this was a winnable game with Siemian. At least this will quiet down any QB controversy if there even was one. Lynch just isn't ready and that's ok. If there was a loss to give the this was it.

Like I said in other threads, Trevors strength is his accuracy, composure and his knowledge of the playbook. He just looks way more comfortable and he can spin it as good as I've seen. I really hope he plays Thursday.

I don't know his numbers (so I could be wrong), but I also think we are pretty good on 3rd downs with Trevor.

BroncoWave
10-09-2016, 06:20 PM
After thinking more about it, I'm not as mad at Latimer. In a game like today where we were down 2 scores almost all day, you need high variance plays to get you back in it. Returning a kick is a high variance play. Our offense wasn't doing shit, so we had to try to create offense where we could. It didn't work out, but I don't blame the coaches for having him try.

Tned
10-09-2016, 06:23 PM
I have no doubt that this was a winnable game with Siemian. At least this will quiet down any QB controversy if there even was one. Lynch just isn't ready and that's ok. If there was a loss to give the this was it.


There was, it just wasn't a controversy based in fact, but instead Madden mentality.

Tned
10-09-2016, 06:24 PM
I don't know his numbers (so I could be wrong), but I also think we are pretty good on 3rd downs with Trevor.

I haven't been able to find that number, but I know after the first two games, I think it was, he was very near the league lead. Also, after three games, I think he was in the top five or so in first down %, which is the percent of passes that result in a first down.

gregbroncs
10-09-2016, 06:25 PM
CJ has looked really slow and lackadaisical the last couple of games. He deserves to be on the bad list, I think.This. Booker has outplayed him for at least the last 2 weeks. At this point I think Booker should be starting over him.

BroncoWave
10-09-2016, 06:27 PM
This. Booker has outplayed him for at least the last 2 weeks. At this point I think Booker should be starting over him.

You can definitely tell Booker has more talent. Only a matter of time before he starts. For now though, CJ probably has a better grasp of blocking and things like that that keep him as starter.

Tned
10-09-2016, 06:29 PM
This. Booker has outplayed him for at least the last 2 weeks. At this point I think Booker should be starting over him.

In this league, it's getting more and more rare for their to be a bell cow back, so who's starting matters less than having a run game that produces, with multiple backs.

The problem today was that the offense was so pitiful that they only had 17 carries between them.

gregbroncs
10-09-2016, 06:32 PM
You can definitely tell Booker has more talent. Only a matter of time before he starts. For now though, CJ probably has a better grasp of blocking and things like that that keep him as starter.Maybe, I'll not pretend to be an expert at that. But it sure seems like Booker at least has the vision to run away from obvious tacklers. CJ appears to just run into them or freeze when they get close and get tackled.

Bronco4ever
10-09-2016, 06:44 PM
After thinking more about it, I'm not as mad at Latimer. In a game like today where we were down 2 scores almost all day, you need high variance plays to get you back in it. Returning a kick is a high variance play. Our offense wasn't doing shit, so we had to try to create offense where we could. It didn't work out, but I don't blame the coaches for having him try.

My thoughts as well and the only thing I disagreed with in your OP. He didn't run the returns as well as we'd like, but I think he almost had to go for it.

Mike
10-09-2016, 06:45 PM
My thoughts as well and the only thing I disagreed with in your OP. He didn't run the returns as well as we'd like, but I think he almost had to go for it.

When we are down and nothing to lose, go for it. Early in the game...be conservative and take the ball at the 25.

I Eat Staples
10-09-2016, 06:48 PM
After thinking more about it, I'm not as mad at Latimer. In a game like today where we were down 2 scores almost all day, you need high variance plays to get you back in it. Returning a kick is a high variance play. Our offense wasn't doing shit, so we had to try to create offense where we could. It didn't work out, but I don't blame the coaches for having him try.

You're giving him too much credit, he does it every week.

CrazyHorse
10-09-2016, 06:58 PM
Bad: We lost

Good: Had Seimian, Stephenson, and Green started I think we win.

CrazyHorse
10-09-2016, 06:58 PM
Broncos had too much run plays early in 1st half. They should have with pass plays early.

Lynch looked more comfortable in the shotgun but only when they went to a prevent defense.

Tned
10-09-2016, 07:00 PM
Broncos had too much run plays early in 1st half. They should have with pass plays early.

Bad pass protection and inaccurate QB, not a recipe to go pass heavy.

Jaded
10-09-2016, 07:01 PM
Ahem, let's be honest here, no loss is complete without DT dropping an important pass. It's a pattern, I love the dude, Top 5 imo, but he's about as trustworthy as a wet fart.

The OL coach hasn't accomplished a ******* thing since he's been here.

The apprentice (Shanahan) mopped the floor with the master (Kubiak).

Todd Davis has nothing on Travathon, giving him serious competition should be a priority if he doesn't improve. Btw, the guy I wanted to replace Trevathon is on a one- year $1.3 MM deal and just won AFC Defensive Player of the Week.

Sampro doesn't have T skills and can't stay healthy long enough to build strength needed at G, he was never strong to begin with. He's 100% finesse with marginal athletic ability. The Broncos are still suffering from his injuries even though he's supposedly healthy now. Eugene Monroe, change his mind about retirement. Because the Broncos are figgaty, figgaty ****ed if they lose more than one starting T and a time. Although, somehow Schoefield looks better at LT.

The good? The Falcons offense, because reports of this offenses death have been greatly exaggerated and that is the offense the Broncos' hopes to be when it grows up.

Cj is a hard runner, Booker is the best RB on the team, if they get blocking they'll deliver.

Jaded
10-09-2016, 07:02 PM
You're giving him too much credit, he does it every week.

It's almost as if there's a reason.

I Eat Staples
10-09-2016, 07:03 PM
Booker comes from a spread offense, he sucks.

I Eat Staples
10-09-2016, 07:03 PM
It's almost as if there's a reason.

A reason to run out a kick from 5 yards back when the touchback is at the 25? No good reason, that's for sure.

Hawgdriver
10-09-2016, 07:05 PM
Good: Shane Ray, Darian Stewart, & Booker. Ray is quickly becoming an elite level playmaker. Stewart plays nearly 100% of the snaps and is a force of nature. Booker is running angry and violent.

Bad: O-line ofc. Lynch not ready for NFL yet. Playcalling on both sides, especially offense.

DenBronx
10-09-2016, 07:15 PM
Yep, getting trolled by raider fans on facebook already. I hate when they win and we lose. I hate that they are even tied with us. Fck those gay ass raider fans.

Magnificent Seven
10-09-2016, 07:16 PM
Hats off to Atlanta. Our first loss since December 20th, 2015.

Just a bad day without QB Trevor Siemian, LB DeMarcus Ware, LT Donald Stephenson, and TE Virgil Green.

Offensive linemen had a horrible game.

Our Rookie QB Paxton Lynch made many rookie mistakes. He will learn from mistakes and get smarter.

Let's move onto TNF. Knock that L out and win over SD!

wayninja
10-09-2016, 07:20 PM
If we can't beat SD, the literal 4th quarter whipping post of the league, then I'll worry. Otherwise I'll just chalk this up to shooting the perfect season monkey in the head.

Hawgdriver
10-09-2016, 07:26 PM
Latimer - That ass hole needs to stop taking kicks out from 5 yards deep. Get that idiot off the team if that's all he can contribute.

Latimer on the team hurts the Broncos when there has to be an O-lineman somewhere that could fit that roster spot. Latimer is pure negative expected value, his time is up. Abandon the Louis L'lamour Sackett's Jubilee project.

Tned
10-09-2016, 07:28 PM
If we can't beat SD, the literal 4th quarter whipping post of the league, then I'll worry. Otherwise I'll just chalk this up to shooting the perfect season monkey in the head.

If Siemian isn't ready, we have to hope Lynch massively improves in four days.

Jaded
10-09-2016, 07:29 PM
Booker comes from a spread offense, he sucks.

That's what Professional coaching is for, to bring high schoolers into big boy game.

Jaded
10-09-2016, 07:31 PM
A reason to run out a kick from 5 yards back when the touchback is at the 25? No good reason, that's for sure.

It's been explained several times, whether we like it or not some teams are coaching their returners to do just that. It'll play itself out but I'm not going to assume it's all Latimer's fault.

Goddamn professional coaches, amirite?

I Eat Staples
10-09-2016, 07:34 PM
It's been explained several times, whether we like it or not some teams are coaching their returners to do just that. It'll play itself out but I'm not going to assume it's all Latimer's fault.

Goddamn professional coaches, amirite?

The reason we're seeing more returns is because kickers are purposely kicking it higher and shorter to force teams to return it, so as not to give them the ball from the 25. Returning it from several yards into your own endzone is not a smart play.

VonDoom
10-09-2016, 07:35 PM
Not much good here. The bad? Lynch was brutally bad. Held the ball far too long (something he struggled with in the preseason; I had hoped he'd be over it after last week, but I guess that's back), over throwing basically everybody, etc. The line was dreadful again - Sambrailo looked like Schofield against Mack out there. Remember this Falcons team had four sacks TOTAL going into this game. No excuse for that, either from Lynch or the line. On defense, we got chewed up again in the run game but give the Falcons credit, they figured out a way to pass against us which was to let their RB's beat our LB's. Now, a lot of teams won't have the players to do that, but it certainly exposed a major flaw that needs to be addressed.

I'm not going to freak out over one loss (our first since before Christmas last year) but the Chargers game got a whole lot more interesting, in a bad way. We can't lose this one now. We need Stephenson and Green back desperately, but we also need Siemian. I believe in Lynch long term, but he is clearly not ready, which is exactly what I said coming out of the preseason. No controversy - Trevor is the guy. We have some very winnable games coming up before a major showdown in Oakland, so we need to actually win them.

BroncoWave
10-09-2016, 07:36 PM
You're giving him too much credit, he does it every week.

I have to believe the coaches tell him to. Otherwise, he's just the biggest idiot in the world defying them so much, and would probably have lost his job by now.

Timmy!
10-09-2016, 07:46 PM
Not much good here. The bad? Lynch was brutally bad. Held the ball far too long (something he struggled with in the preseason; I had hoped he'd be over it after last week, but I guess that's back), over throwing basically everybody, etc. The line was dreadful again - Sambrailo looked like Schofield against Mack out there. Remember this Falcons team had four sacks TOTAL going into this game. No excuse for that, either from Lynch or the line. On defense, we got chewed up again in the run game but give the Falcons credit, they figured out a way to pass against us which was to let their RB's beat our LB's. Now, a lot of teams won't have the players to do that, but it certainly exposed a major flaw that needs to be addressed.

I'm not going to freak out over one loss (our first since before Christmas last year) but the Chargers game got a whole lot more interesting, in a bad way. We can't lose this one now. We need Stephenson and Green back desperately, but we also need Siemian. I believe in Lynch long term, but he is clearly not ready, which is exactly what I said coming out of the preseason. No controversy - Trevor is the guy. We have some very winnable games coming up before a major showdown in Oakland, so we need to actually win them.

This^

Stephenson will help a bunch. Our RT's just hand out probowl tickets without him. We also suck out loud at TE without Green.

CrazyHorse
10-09-2016, 07:53 PM
A reason to run out a kick from 5 yards back when the touchback is at the 25? No good reason, that's for sure.

Why doesn't Norwood return kicks? Is there a big fundamental difference from returning punts and kicks. I've always thought it was strange teams have different players for each. I really miss having Trindon Holliday and Eddie Royal as our kick/punt returners. Talib would be a great returner but he's far to valuable to lose.

Jaded
10-09-2016, 08:15 PM
Why doesn't Norwood return kicks? Is there a big fundamental difference from returning punts and kicks. I've always thought it was strange teams have different players for each. I really miss having Trindon Holliday and Eddie Royal as our kick/punt returners. Talib would be a great returner but he's far to valuable to lose.
Norwood let a punt roll by him at the 20 that went on to be downed on the one, then the half yard line. He signals for fair catch at the same time the ball is snapped, I don't think we're missing much without him.

Jaded
10-09-2016, 08:17 PM
I have to believe the coaches tell him to. Otherwise, he's just the biggest idiot in the world defying them so much, and would probably have lost his job by now.

If he's told to down it and he brings it out to the five he's probably not returning for this long, especially considering he's nothing special at it.

chazoe60
10-09-2016, 08:25 PM
Sambrailo was so bad that Schofield was an upgrade. :laugh:

tripp
10-09-2016, 08:45 PM
Our defense did their job, held them to a decent score considering the amount of times ATL had the ball.

I found our offense was offensive to us Broncos fans. Terrible and embarrassing. You made one of the worst defenses in the NFL look like the 2015 Denver Broncos.

Trevor Siemian should have ZERO doubts about losing his job anytime soon. I don't know what it is, but I'm not on the CJ Anderson hype train. I know the O-line hasn't been doing him much favors, but Booker looks way more explosive out of the hole than CJ.

NightTerror218
10-09-2016, 09:29 PM
Today was the worst scenario for a rookie QB. Piss poor oline play. Rushing was non existent and playing from behind.

Lynch held on ball too long but he also never haf much time. Oline was owned bybthe worat dline in the league.

3 games now where running game was lack luster. But cincy game was prob the best pass blocking game we had too. We are not getting the short yards we need yo be this season. How many 3rd and 1s have we not converted.....a lot.

Tned
10-09-2016, 09:41 PM
Today was the worst scenario for a rookie QB. Piss poor oline play. Rushing was non existent and playing from behind.

Lynch held on ball too long but he also never haf much time. Oline was owned bybthe worat dline in the league.

3 games now where running game was lack luster. But cincy game was prob the best pass blocking game we had too. We are not getting the short yards we need yo be this season. How many 3rd and 1s have we not converted.....a lot.

Or, Siemian's quick release and adjustments kept the damage to only 6 sacks in 3.5 games.

LawDog
10-09-2016, 09:42 PM
I like Sambraillo. But I just do not get why he was out there so long. Seriously, the guy can't scratch his chin with his right arm and they expect him to be effective against an outside rush, with a QB whose five step drop is like ten yards deep. I just don't get it.

LawDog
10-09-2016, 09:59 PM
The Good:

The offense was 100% in the Redzone today.

1/1

spikerman
10-09-2016, 10:05 PM
The bad ..... Kubiak forgot how to call a professional football game. (Sorry Jaded)

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
10-09-2016, 10:10 PM
The bad ..... Kubiak forgot how to call a professional football game. (Sorry Jaded)

You can only do so much with a bike with training wheels and a banana seat.

Tned
10-09-2016, 10:12 PM
The bad ..... Kubiak forgot how to call a professional football game. (Sorry Jaded)

With the bad passing, it limits the play calling.

spikerman
10-09-2016, 10:22 PM
Also, continuing to run when the oline is ineffective forces an inexperienced QB to make a tough play.

Jaded
10-09-2016, 10:26 PM
Also, continuing to run when the oline is ineffective forces an inexperienced QB to make a tough play.

Running with an inexperienced QB is supposed be good for him, stay on schedule, keep 3rd downs manageable.

Besides, the OL was ineffective in pass pro too.

gregbroncs
10-09-2016, 10:26 PM
Good: Shane Ray, Darian Stewart, & Booker. Ray is quickly becoming an elite level playmaker. Stewart plays nearly 100% of the snaps and is a force of nature. Booker is running angry and violent.

Bad: O-line ofc. Lynch not ready for NFL yet. Playcalling on both sides, especially offense.I have a hard time saying Darian Stewart had a good game. On one of their long run plays he took a horrible angle and gave up an extra 20+ yards because of it.

Jaded
10-09-2016, 10:28 PM
The bad ..... Kubiak forgot how to call a professional football game. (Sorry Jaded)

No you're not.

MOtorboat
10-09-2016, 10:30 PM
Running with an inexperienced QB is supposed be good for him, stay on schedule, keep 3rd downs manageable.

Besides, the OL was ineffective in pass pro too.

3rd and 8 isn't manageable. The gameplan was shit. The quarterback was shit. Both things can be true.

spikerman
10-09-2016, 10:30 PM
Running with an inexperienced QB is supposed be good for him, stay on schedule, keep 3rd downs manageable.

Besides, the OL was ineffective in pass pro too.
See Einstein's definition of insanity.

spikerman
10-09-2016, 10:30 PM
No you're not.

No, I'm not.

Hawgdriver
10-09-2016, 10:52 PM
I have a hard time saying Darian Stewart had a good game. On one of their long run plays he took a horrible angle and gave up an extra 20+ yards because of it.

If I'm thinking of the same one, didn't #52 (I think, the dude playing the left side from d's perspective) lose track of the play and miss his assignment? Is a safety supposed to take position based of cues from LBs? I honestly don't know this stuff, but I remember the distinct thought that the LB was lost on that play and was the cause of the big gash. I could see excusing some of the conservative angle from not wanting to give up a home run, but Stewart did cut it super wide, and heck maybe contain or whatever was strictly his responsibility. In that case ... damn. Nah, still huge fan of Stewart. He'll show you next week.

Jaded
10-09-2016, 10:55 PM
3rd and 8 isn't manageable. The gameplan was shit. The quarterback was shit. Both things can be true.

I never said Kubiak wasn't shit, I take issue with second guessing the playcalling when they were probably calling the kind of plays that we think he should be calling.

Maybe the problem is the plays you guys want them running? I'd like to see him scrap that and just run what I want.

Hawgdriver
10-09-2016, 10:57 PM
Jaded, you are super pissed off and grumpy, dude. I think you should be our mascot for how we all feel after this game. :lol:

Jaded
10-09-2016, 10:58 PM
"I wish he'd pass more on first down", well he did that, then that turns into "he should only pass on 1st down", what's next if that doesn't work?

Jaded
10-09-2016, 10:59 PM
Jaded, you are super pissed off and grumpy, dude. I think you should be our mascot for how we all feel after this game. :lol:

Where's Dave? Hold me Dave!

MOtorboat
10-09-2016, 10:59 PM
I never said Kubiak wasn't shit, I take issue with second guessing the playcalling when they were probably calling the kind of plays that we think he should be calling.

Maybe the problem is the plays you guys want them running? I'd like to see him scrap that and just run what I want.

The gameplan totally changed from when Lynch was put in last week at Tampa Bay to the first couple of drives this week. Sure, Denver had a lead when he came in, but they were successful with what they called there. Why were they so damn tentative at home in a friendlier atmosphere against a worse defense? That's a legit question.

As to Tned's quip that the terrible passing limited the playcalling. The playcalling was timid and predictable even before he threw a pass. And once you're in 3rd and 8, running from there is ******* pointless as shit, no matter whether your quarterback is sucking or not.

Jaded
10-09-2016, 11:02 PM
The gameplan totally changed from when Lynch was put in last week at Tampa Bay to the first couple of drives this week. Sure, Denver had a lead when he came in, but they were successful with what they called there. Why were they so damn tentative at home in a friendlier atmosphere against a worse defense? That's a legit question.

As to Tned's quip that the terrible passing limited the playcalling. The playcalling was timid and predictable even before he threw a pass. And once you're in 3rd and 8, running from there is ******* pointless as shit, no matter whether your quarterback is sucking or not.

I think Lynch's play vindicated the playcalling.

NightTerror218
10-09-2016, 11:15 PM
Or, Siemian's quick release and adjustments kept the damage to only 6 sacks in 3.5 games.

No.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
10-09-2016, 11:44 PM
If I'm thinking of the same one, didn't #52 (I think, the dude playing the left side from d's perspective) lose track of the play and miss his assignment? Is a safety supposed to take position based of cues from LBs? I honestly don't know this stuff, but I remember the distinct thought that the LB was lost on that play and was the cause of the big gash. I could see excusing some of the conservative angle from not wanting to give up a home run, but Stewart did cut it super wide, and heck maybe contain or whatever was strictly his responsibility. In that case ... damn. Nah, still huge fan of Stewart. He'll show you next week.

The LB that crashed down on that play was Miller, but it looked like Stewart was responsible for outside containment based on where he was positioned.

iLands
10-09-2016, 11:50 PM
Unlike last game, Lynch didn't enter with a lead. He kinda had to make things happen.

dogfish
10-10-2016, 02:13 AM
Why were they so damn tentative at home in a friendlier atmosphere against a worse defense? That's a legit question.


because they know they can't block anybody with this line right now. . . our backup tackle depth is basically non-functional at the moment. . . one day playing against our traffic cone RTs, and beasley went from well on his way to bust status, to well on his way to the pro bowl. . . of course, it doesn't help when you don't have any TEs that can do anything, either. . . it minimizes your ability to chip effectively, takes away from your wide runs, and also limits the playcalling in a scheme that wants to feature them. . .


jaded isn't wrong with his criticism of the OL, but his quip about barone not doing anything is misguided. . . that dude deserves a ton of credit for the way he nursed the clown car all the way to a title last year. . . if we're being honest, it's okay to put that "blame" where it rightly belongs-- on elway and the scouts who produced guys like sambrailo and schofield. . . it's not some harsh assessment, just the truth. . . every FO misses on guys, and every roster has holes that will have to be covered on the fly. . . it's just our bad luck that we've been hit with injuries in exactly the areas where we're thinnest. . . we did a good job patching the starting tackle spots on the fly over the off-season, but we're seeing that we aren't well-equipped to survive injury there. . . hopefully we get stephenson back ASAFP. . . i think we have enough on hand to perform at a solid level if we do have both OTs available. . . not looking real pretty otherwise, so let's all cross our fingers, and knock on wood, pray, or whatever. . .

nevcraw
10-10-2016, 06:19 AM
Gotta say was shocked at the predictability of the play calling on offense. I'm mean you got a super athletic qb and you don't roll him out? That was kinda absurd. They did nothing to shake off the pass rush.
Bad day. There will be better ones.
Tomorrows headlines - ATLANTA exposed Denver for others to copy. Easier said then done.

VonDoom
10-10-2016, 07:02 AM
because they know they can't block anybody with this line right now. . . our backup tackle depth is basically non-functional at the moment. . . one day playing against our traffic cone RTs, and beasley went from well on his way to bust status, to well on his way to the pro bowl. . . of course, it doesn't help when you don't have any TEs that can do anything, either. . . it minimizes your ability to chip effectively, takes away from your wide runs, and also limits the playcalling in a scheme that wants to feature them. . .


jaded isn't wrong with his criticism of the OL, but his quip about barone not doing anything is misguided. . . that dude deserves a ton of credit for the way he nursed the clown car all the way to a title last year. . . if we're being honest, it's okay to put that "blame" where it rightly belongs-- on elway and the scouts who produced guys like sambrailo and schofield. . . it's not some harsh assessment, just the truth. . . every FO misses on guys, and every roster has holes that will have to be covered on the fly. . . it's just our bad luck that we've been hit with injuries in exactly the areas where we're thinnest. . . we did a good job patching the starting tackle spots on the fly over the off-season, but we're seeing that we aren't well-equipped to survive injury there. . . hopefully we get stephenson back ASAFP. . . i think we have enough on hand to perform at a solid level if we do have both OTs available. . . not looking real pretty otherwise, so let's all cross our fingers, and knock on wood, pray, or whatever. . .

This is pretty spot on. I'd say that for our o-line, the early returns on Okung and Stephenson (when he's actually out there) look good. Those were FA acquisitions. Drafting OL has been a real problem under Elway, and it seems to be one of the only weak points in his tenure. Nothing wrong with putting that out there. Whether it's the scouts or the philosophy, I don't know. But with all the linemen in the draft, we come up with Schofield and Sambrailo in the top three rounds and we're just not seeing much from them. Paradis, considering his draft position, has been a pretty good success but there's not much else to show so far.

VonDoom
10-10-2016, 07:05 AM
I think Lynch's play vindicated the playcalling.

My quibble with the play calling from yesterday was that at least twice on third and one, we tried to run straight ahead and got stuffed both times. I called it out ahead of time and sure enough, that's how it went down. I would have at least tried a PA rollout or something since they were obviously geared up to stop the run there. We have to be able to convert those anyway, based on our offensive philosophy, but it wasn't happening yesterday so I would have tried to at least mix it up there. Otherwise, play calling wasn't a problem for me - we had much bigger issues with execution.

Tned
10-10-2016, 07:55 AM
No.

Yes

Hawgdriver
10-10-2016, 09:52 AM
The LB that crashed down on that play was Miller, but it looked like Stewart was responsible for outside containment based on where he was positioned.

Might be diff play, but what I saw was #52 stuck like a stump while the play developed to the outside and he didn't react.

spikerman
10-10-2016, 09:59 AM
Might be diff play, but what I saw was #52 stuck like a stump while the play developed to the outside and he didn't react.
Was it just me, or did Nelson play a lot more yesterday than in previous games this season? Was Davis dinged?

CoachChaz
10-10-2016, 10:09 AM
Was it just me, or did Nelson play a lot more yesterday than in previous games this season? Was Davis dinged?

I think Nelson played more because he has better coverage skills. Not that it mattered. Atlanta RB's torched us in the passing game like pretty much any team with good receiving backs usually do. Our ILB's are seriously lacking this year. Not doing much to contain the run and continuing to be very poor in coverage.

broncofaninfla
10-10-2016, 10:18 AM
I didn't think it going into the season but I do now, our ILB's are weak. They are a liability in both run and pass defense and Atlanta did a great job of taking advantage of that.

spikerman
10-10-2016, 10:21 AM
With Atlanta's offense this year I don't think giving up 23 points is too bad. I'm ok with that, but yeah, OL and ILB have to be priorities in the off season.

VonDoom
10-10-2016, 10:27 AM
Was it just me, or did Nelson play a lot more yesterday than in previous games this season? Was Davis dinged?

Cameron Wolfe ‏@CameronWolfe 25m25 minutes ago

#Broncos LB Brandon Marshall played 60 of 67 def snaps (90%) v. #Falcons. Todd Davis 52 of 67 (78%). A sign they were in a lot of base def.

Northman
10-10-2016, 10:34 AM
I think the Falcons came in more with something to prove than Denver did. While i hate losing this was good for them. i believe because the defense now knows that they can be exploited, especially if the offense isnt pulling their share of the weight so now they have to get focused again for the Chargers.

spikerman
10-10-2016, 10:37 AM
Cameron Wolfe ‏@CameronWolfe 25m25 minutes ago

#Broncos LB Brandon Marshall played 60 of 67 def snaps (90%) v. #Falcons. Todd Davis 52 of 67 (78%). A sign they were in a lot of base def.
Maybe I just noticed him more.

NightTrainLayne
10-10-2016, 10:37 AM
The Good:

Our defense is pretty damn good. .. again. Only allowing 23 points to THAT squad, while our offense was wandering around in the wilderness with their thumbs up their asses? That was, in reality, a hell of a performance by the defense. Are there areas that need improvement? Yes. They're still damn good. If we could have scored at all to put pressure on their offense. ..

The Bad:

Rookie QB making his first start, looked like Rookie QB making his first start. I guess that's not "bad". It's to be expected. Especially when the O-line is as banged up as they are.



The Hope:

I have a feeling that Stephenson & Siemian returning to the lineup healthy will cure a lot of what ails us.

BigDaddyBronco
10-10-2016, 10:46 AM
because they know they can't block anybody with this line right now. . . our backup tackle depth is basically non-functional at the moment. . . one day playing against our traffic cone RTs, and beasley went from well on his way to bust status, to well on his way to the pro bowl. . . of course, it doesn't help when you don't have any TEs that can do anything, either. . . it minimizes your ability to chip effectively, takes away from your wide runs, and also limits the playcalling in a scheme that wants to feature them. . .


jaded isn't wrong with his criticism of the OL, but his quip about barone not doing anything is misguided. . . that dude deserves a ton of credit for the way he nursed the clown car all the way to a title last year. . . if we're being honest, it's okay to put that "blame" where it rightly belongs-- on elway and the scouts who produced guys like sambrailo and schofield. . . it's not some harsh assessment, just the truth. . . every FO misses on guys, and every roster has holes that will have to be covered on the fly. . . it's just our bad luck that we've been hit with injuries in exactly the areas where we're thinnest. . . we did a good job patching the starting tackle spots on the fly over the off-season, but we're seeing that we aren't well-equipped to survive injury there. . . hopefully we get stephenson back ASAFP. . . i think we have enough on hand to perform at a solid level if we do have both OTs available. . . not looking real pretty otherwise, so let's all cross our fingers, and knock on wood, pray, or whatever. . .

Honestly, I think this is where Elway has not shined as a GM. He has drafted 4 OT's, Orlando Franklin, Vinston Painter, Michael Schofield, and Ty Sambralio. All have been mediocre RT's and they have had to move them inside to G. Franklin has been the best of the bunch, but they deemed that he wasn't worth the money at guard and let him go. Hasn't done well with FA pick ups either, Paul Cornick anyone. Hopefully Okung and Stephenson are the answer.

Hasn't been much better at G and C either.

It would be nice to hit on a few of these guys now and then as we seem to do on RB's and LB's.

Buff
10-10-2016, 10:51 AM
Good -

McManus is $$ in the bank.

Emmanuel Sanders made a couple tough catches.

Bad -

Getting outplayed in every facet by an inferior Atlanta team. The lack of depth on offense is a real concern.

NightTerror218
10-10-2016, 11:54 AM
Yes

Our oline has had some of our highest rated players the first 4 weeks. 2 to 3 OL in top 5 rated players.

This was not the case yesterday and i do not think siemian would have made a difference in outcome. He made have made a few morw passes and would have had escaped any sacks either.

Beasly got 4 sacks vietually untouched and forced 2 fumbles. Siemian is not magic those would still have happened. He is not as quick as Brady, manning or rodgers. He is quicker than lynch butbypu still still 2 seconds.

wayninja
10-10-2016, 12:01 PM
Our oline has had some of our highest rated players the first 4 weeks. 2 to 3 OL in top 5 rated players.

This was not the case yesterday and i do not think siemian would have made a difference in outcome. He made have made a few morw passes and would have had escaped any sacks either.

Beasly got 4 sacks vietually untouched and forced 2 fumbles. Siemian is not magic those would still have happened. He is not as quick as Brady, manning or rodgers. He is quicker than lynch butbypu still still 2 seconds.

I tend to agree with you, but just to play devil's advocate... we lost by 7 points. A "few more passes" might have been the difference.

BroncoWave
10-10-2016, 12:03 PM
I tend to agree with you, but just to play devil's advocate... we lost by 7 points. A "few more passes" might have been the difference.

That was not a 7 point game in reality. Atlanta went to prevent in garbage time and let us nickle and dime our way down the field as the clock bled out.

NightTerror218
10-10-2016, 12:08 PM
Some apples to apples comparison

Siemian first career start
18/26 69.2% 178 yards 1td and 2 int

Lynch first career start
23/35 65.7% 223 yards 1td 1 int

Not much different stats line wise here. But much bigger difference with how the offense played overall. Siemian had cleaner pocket, and better running game. Carolina was suppose to have a better defense but they sre not the same as last year but is still a better defense than atlanta.

Throwing this out there that lynch was not inaccurate. In fact the exact same completion percentage that siemian had against bengals. While lynch had some massive misses to nobody or missing ooen guys he also throw some beautiful passes.

That said excited to see these to batlle it out for the next couple years.

BroncoWave
10-10-2016, 12:10 PM
Yeah, passing wasn't so much Lynch's problem as holding onto the ball too long was. I would have liked to have seen that completion % dip a bit as a result of him throwing balls away instead of taking so many sacks.

Northman
10-10-2016, 12:11 PM
Unfortunately a lot of Lynch's yards came in garbage time after the Falcons went to a prevent defense. So his stats are bit inflated because of that. The cool thing is that Siemien already has 2 4th quarter comebacks to his resume in such a short time. Either way i would agree that it will be interesting to see how this all plays out by the end of the year.

MOtorboat
10-10-2016, 12:13 PM
because they know they can't block anybody with this line right now. . . our backup tackle depth is basically non-functional at the moment. . . one day playing against our traffic cone RTs, and beasley went from well on his way to bust status, to well on his way to the pro bowl. . . of course, it doesn't help when you don't have any TEs that can do anything, either. . . it minimizes your ability to chip effectively, takes away from your wide runs, and also limits the playcalling in a scheme that wants to feature them. . .


jaded isn't wrong with his criticism of the OL, but his quip about barone not doing anything is misguided. . . that dude deserves a ton of credit for the way he nursed the clown car all the way to a title last year. . . if we're being honest, it's okay to put that "blame" where it rightly belongs-- on elway and the scouts who produced guys like sambrailo and schofield. . . it's not some harsh assessment, just the truth. . . every FO misses on guys, and every roster has holes that will have to be covered on the fly. . . it's just our bad luck that we've been hit with injuries in exactly the areas where we're thinnest. . . we did a good job patching the starting tackle spots on the fly over the off-season, but we're seeing that we aren't well-equipped to survive injury there. . . hopefully we get stephenson back ASAFP. . . i think we have enough on hand to perform at a solid level if we do have both OTs available. . . not looking real pretty otherwise, so let's all cross our fingers, and knock on wood, pray, or whatever. . .

If you can't block anyone, you shouldn't be calling a run-heavy game plan.

NightTerror218
10-10-2016, 12:14 PM
Yeah, passing wasn't so much Lynch's problem as holding onto the ball too long was. I would have liked to have seen that completion % dip a bit as a result of him throwing balls away instead of taking so many sacks.

I still argue holding to it too long was not the problem on all the sacks. As there was virtually no rt in the game at times. On a few of the sacks they showes the view from behind lynch and you can see everyone was covered.

BroncoWave
10-10-2016, 12:15 PM
If you can't block anyone, you shouldn't be calling a run-heavy game plan.

And get Lynch sent to the hospital from taking another 4-5 sacks? The coaches were in a no-win situation yesterday. You can't just playcall your way out of such horrible execution.

BroncoWave
10-10-2016, 12:16 PM
I still argue holding to it too long was not the problem on all the sacks. As there was virtually no rt in the game at times. On a few of the sacks they showes the view from behind lynch and you can see everyone was covered.

Which is why you throw the ball away.

Valar Morghulis
10-10-2016, 12:16 PM
And get Lynch sent to the hospital from taking another 4-5 sacks? The coaches were in a no-win situation yesterday. You can't just playcall your way out of such horrible execution.

The option?

NightTerror218
10-10-2016, 12:16 PM
Unfortunately a lot of Lynch's yards came in garbage time after the Falcons went to a prevent defense. So his stats are bit inflated because of that. The cool thing is that Siemien already has 2 4th quarter comebacks to his resume in such a short time. Either way i would agree that it will be interesting to see how this all plays out by the end of the year.

Garbage time eh, if that onside kick was not called back the game might have been diff. And he yards came on the drive before that to start the 4th quarter. Not garbage time.

NightTrainLayne
10-10-2016, 12:17 PM
If you can't block anyone, you shouldn't be calling a run-heavy game plan.

If you can't block anyone, and have a green QB who doesn't get rid of the ball, then 2nd and 9 is better than 2nd and 16 after a sack. ..

Northman
10-10-2016, 12:18 PM
Garbage time eh, if that onside kick was not called back the game might have been diff. And he yards came on the drive before that to start the 4th quarter. Not garbage time.

The Falcons had a commanding lead in the 4th quarter so yea, it was pretty much garbage time as Atlanta wasnt going to risk giving up the big play which is why they gave him underneath.

BroncoWave
10-10-2016, 12:18 PM
The option?

That allows the D to take even more shots at the QB. He was already getting beat to hell as it was. The last thing we need is both of our top QBs being injured.

BroncoWave
10-10-2016, 12:19 PM
Garbage time eh, if that onside kick was not called back the game might have been diff. And he yards came on the drive before that to start the 4th quarter. Not garbage time.

It was garbage time. Atlanta was giving us the underneath stuff to let the clock bleed. They were banking on the fact that we wouldn't convert two onside kicks, and they were right.

Buff
10-10-2016, 12:19 PM
If you can't block anyone and your QB is in his first NFL start you are going to lose regardless of the gameplan. We lost because a bunch of their defensive hacks and also-rans won their 1:1 matchups against us consistently. That's the recipe for losing any game.

BroncoWave
10-10-2016, 12:21 PM
If you can't block anyone and your QB is in his first NFL start you are going to lose regardless of the gameplan. We lost because a bunch of their defensive hacks and also-rans won their 1:1 matchups against us consistently. That's the recipe for losing any game.

Pretty much this. People are making this way more complicated than it needs to be.

NightTerror218
10-10-2016, 12:21 PM
Which is why you throw the ball away.

I said i do not think he had the time to do that. I saw 2 sacks he could have dont that but not all. Dont foeget you have to be out of pocket or in area of wr. Rather take a sack than throw a pic.

MOtorboat
10-10-2016, 12:22 PM
And get Lynch sent to the hospital from taking another 4-5 sacks? The coaches were in a no-win situation yesterday. You can't just playcall your way out of such horrible execution.

You can run some more slants, screens, hitches. Maybe they were and it's Lynch's fault it wasn't coming out quick enough. But I didn't see many adjustments yesterday when it became obvious that the run, run, pass philosophy was resulting in failed conversions on third and long.

BroncoWave
10-10-2016, 12:23 PM
You can run some more slants, screens, hitches. Maybe they were and it's Lynch's fault it wasn't coming out quick enough. But I didn't see many adjustments yesterday when it became obvious that the run, run, pass philosophy was resulting in failed conversions on third and long.

We passed 33 times on first and second down. We can't just pass every single play.

MOtorboat
10-10-2016, 12:26 PM
We passed 33 times on first and second down. We can't just pass every single play.

33 of 35 passes came on first and third down? I'm having a hard time believing that.

BroncoWave
10-10-2016, 12:27 PM
33 of 35 passes came on first and third down? I'm having a hard time believing that.

Sorry, called 33 passing plays. So sacks count in that too.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
10-10-2016, 12:32 PM
Some apples to apples comparison

Siemian first career start
18/26 69.2% 178 yards 1td and 2 int

Lynch first career start
23/35 65.7% 223 yards 1td 1 int

Not much different stats line wise here. But much bigger difference with how the offense played overall. Siemian had cleaner pocket, and better running game. Carolina was suppose to have a better defense but they sre not the same as last year but is still a better defense than atlanta.

Throwing this out there that lynch was not inaccurate. In fact the exact same completion percentage that siemian had against bengals. While lynch had some massive misses to nobody or missing ooen guys he also throw some beautiful passes.

That said excited to see these to batlle it out for the next couple years.

I don't think Lynch's stat line is a good indicator of how inaccurate he was. His stat line before the last 2 drives was around 50%, which is what it was agaInst TB. Atlanta went into prevent D on the last two drives where he completed about 80 percent of his throws.

He is no where near as accurate as Siemian right now. He'll get better, but he needs another year or so.

BroncoWave
10-10-2016, 12:33 PM
I just went back and counted and got 32 pass plays on 1st and 2nd downs. Again, that does count sacks as well as plays where Lynch scrambled and picked up yards. I didn't count the QB sneak obviously as that was a designed run, but I'm pretty sure the rest of his rushing attempts came on broken pass plays.

32 pass plays on first and second down is a lot. There were only like 3 or 4 sets of downs all game where we ran on first and second downs. It's just not an accurate description of the playcalling to suggest that that's what we were doing a majority of the time.

Valar Morghulis
10-10-2016, 12:37 PM
That allows the D to take even more shots at the QB. He was already getting beat to hell as it was. The last thing we need is both of our top QBs being injured.

I don't think lynch is one of our top two qbs lmao

MOtorboat
10-10-2016, 12:40 PM
Sorry, called 33 passing plays. So sacks count in that too.

I'll concede that point based on the gamelog. But on memory, I just didn't see a lot of help for Lynch. Lynch was awful and hung on to the ball too long, and looked like he was breaking down past the first read, but he didn't get much help.

BroncoWave
10-10-2016, 12:40 PM
I don't think lynch is one of our top two qbs lmao

If only we had Dak. :(

BroncoWave
10-10-2016, 12:42 PM
I'll concede that point based on the gamelog. But on memory, I just didn't see a lot of help for Lynch. Lynch was awful and hung on to the ball too long, and looked like he was breaking down past the first read, but he didn't get much help.

I just don't think a whole lot could have been done playcalling-wise to change the outcome of the game. Your scheme can only do so much to mask poor play. Just nothing we tried worked.

VonDoom
10-10-2016, 01:17 PM
Interesting stats from Mason here:

Andrew Mason ‏@MaseDenver 19m19 minutes ago

NFL average sack rate: 1 per 16.8 pass plays.

DEN's D gets 1 per 9.8 pass plays (1st).

DEN's O allows 1 per 11.7 pass plays (30th).

Andrew Mason ‏@MaseDenver 18m18 minutes ago

DEN offense sacks-allowed rates:

W/ Lynch: 1 every 9.4 pass plays.
W/ Siemian: 1 every 13.6 pass plays.

NFL avg; 1 every 16.8 pass plays.

Doug Nelson
‏@dnel0780

@MaseDenver can you give us those numbers one more time with Stephenson and without? (just curious)

Andrew Mason ‏@MaseDenver 10m10 minutes ago

Andrew Mason Retweeted Doug Nelson

With Stephenson: 1 sack every 11 pass plays.

W/O Stephenson: 1 sack every 11.3 pass plays. (W/ Siemian 1 every 15.2; w/ Lynch 1 every 9.4.)

NightTerror218
10-10-2016, 01:30 PM
Lynch was pressured 42.2% of drop backs and was only blitzed 6.7%

That is a lot of pressure with out blitzing

wayninja
10-10-2016, 01:35 PM
Lynch was pressured 42.2% of drop backs and was only blitzed 6.7%

That is a lot of pressure with out blitzing

Is there some qualification about how much time was spent holding the ball?

VonDoom
10-10-2016, 01:41 PM
Is there some qualification about how much time was spent holding the ball?

Nicki Jhabvala ‏@NickiJhabvala 2h2 hours ago

Interesting stats via @PFF: Paxton Lynch averaging 2.36 seconds to pass, slightly faster than Trevor Siemian at 2.40 seconds.

Nicki Jhabvala ‏@NickiJhabvala 2h2 hours ago

Including scrambles, sacks, etc., Lynch holding ball for an average of 2.7 seconds, up from Siemian's 2.59.

Nicki Jhabvala ‏@NickiJhabvala 2h2 hours ago

The 2.36 to pass among fastest third in league, and 2.70 among slower third. Neither extreme.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
10-10-2016, 02:34 PM
I don't think lynch is one of our top two qbs lmao
We should have kept Sanchez

NightTerror218
10-10-2016, 03:14 PM
Is there some qualification about how much time was spent holding the ball?

This is from pff
20 passes were under 2.5 seconds the rest were over that. When Lynch got the ball out of his hands in 2.5 seconds or less he completed 16 of 20 passes with a 112.3 QB rating, but when he held onto the ball for 2.6 seconds or more he was just 7-of-14 with a 39.0 QB rating.

Top rated offensive players for game 5.

OT Russell Okung, 72.0

TE John Phillips, 66.4

RB Devontae Booker, 60.0

WR Jordan Norwood, 54.4

G Darrion Weems, 53.8


The previous 4 games we have had 2 to 3 OL in the 70s rating range and liated in top 5 on offense.

This has been my point. The OL was this bad. Paradis has been in the mid 70s to mid 80s for pff rating and he dropped out of top 5. This is okungs lowest rating at 72. Weems whoncame in as a backup who sambrillo was pulled made the top 5. Garcia has been in low to mid 70s and is not on the list he is that low.

BS for everyone saying its Lynch's fault and siemian would have made a world difference. Not with the way this ol played. Siemian might have taken more sacks, you cant playbthe what if game.

NightTerror218
10-10-2016, 03:15 PM
Nicki Jhabvala ‏@NickiJhabvala 2h2 hours ago

Interesting stats via @PFF: Paxton Lynch averaging 2.36 seconds to pass, slightly faster than Trevor Siemian at 2.40 seconds.

Nicki Jhabvala ‏@NickiJhabvala 2h2 hours ago

Including scrambles, sacks, etc., Lynch holding ball for an average of 2.7 seconds, up from Siemian's 2.59.

Nicki Jhabvala ‏@NickiJhabvala 2h2 hours ago

The 2.36 to pass among fastest third in league, and 2.70 among slower third. Neither extreme.

But but, excuses


He holds on too long.

VonDoom
10-10-2016, 03:19 PM
We should have kept Sanchez

I can't tell if this is tongue in cheek or not, but I was actually thinking this before, quite seriously. The preseason battle was supposedly between Sanchez and Siemian, with Lynch a clear number three. Siemian won the job and we only cut Sanchez for monetary reasons. He would have been a decent backup. Then again, given our line problems, he might not have fared much better and probably turned it over more, so ...

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
10-10-2016, 03:46 PM
I can't tell if this is tongue in cheek or not, but I was actually thinking this before, quite seriously. The preseason battle was supposedly between Sanchez and Siemian, with Lynch a clear number three. Siemian won the job and we only cut Sanchez for monetary reasons. He would have been a decent backup. Then again, given our line problems, he might not have fared much better and probably turned it over more, so ...

It wasn't tongue in cheek.

Tned
10-10-2016, 04:03 PM
I still argue holding to it too long was not the problem on all the sacks. As there was virtually no rt in the game at times. On a few of the sacks they showes the view from behind lynch and you can see everyone was covered.

As Schlereth and his partner discussed this morning, Lynch was seeing ghosts. At times stepping up in pocket to avoid rush that wasn't there and throwing flat footed at times.

Even Lammey reluctantly agreed he shouldn't be starting right now and Siemian is far better option. A few days ago Lammey was yapping about how Lynch should start from now on.

Tned
10-10-2016, 04:06 PM
We passed 33 times on first and second down. We can't just pass every single play.

LOL, snaking my stat! I was half asleep when I added those up, so someone double check me.

BroncoWave
10-10-2016, 04:07 PM
LOL, snaking my stat! I was half asleep when I added those up, so someone double check me.

I recounted and got 32, but yeah, close enough.

Tned
10-10-2016, 04:21 PM
I recounted and got 32, but yeah, close enough.

Did someone quote me for you to see my post and I didn't realize it? Or was it divine intervention?

Hawgdriver
10-10-2016, 10:14 PM
But but, excuses


He holds on too long.

He held on too long on those plays where he shouldn't have held it so long. It's been noticeable with Lynch probably because he was trying to make something happen, which is understandable in those circumstances, but it resulted in negative plays and that's unacceptable.

NightTerror218
10-10-2016, 11:07 PM
He held on too long on those plays where he shouldn't have held it so long. It's been noticeable with Lynch probably because he was trying to make something happen, which is understandable in those circumstances, but it resulted in negative plays and that's unacceptable.

Calling it negative plays is a stretch. When you have 4 starting OL rated at below 50 that is horrile game.

I can recall 2 sacks where he held onto it too long and resulted in negative plays. He was strip sacked twice by unblocked beasley which is another two. Then that leaves 2 more sacks that where do to pressure coming so quick and i think i was due to not throwing it out of bounds and running short of los. He was preasured on 43% of dropbacks. He was having bad footwork, seeing ghosts and had some erratic throws due to it. Yet he still had 65% completion.

On some throws he held onto it too but still got ball out after moving around and avoiding more sacks.

wayninja
10-10-2016, 11:48 PM
There's moving pieces to be sure, but for my money, the eye test says that Siemian is playing at a much higher level than Lynch, and it's not close.

Hawgdriver
10-10-2016, 11:49 PM
You might have a better gauge on the truth of things, I'm going off gut feel and J. Lynch's commentary. Seemed like he cost points (in the statistical, expected value sense) from holding the ball too long on plays where a vet might have that spidey sense that you can't hold the ball that long in those circumstances. Lynch should be fine with more seasoning, time to learn the offense and get his feet right, and better pass pro.

dogfish
10-11-2016, 01:59 AM
With Atlanta's offense this year I don't think giving up 23 points is too bad. I'm ok with that, but yeah, OL and ILB have to be priorities in the off season.

add another TE to the list as well. . .



If you can't block anyone, you shouldn't be calling a run-heavy game plan.

as others have said, passing a lot with a rookie QB when you can't protect him isn't a great formula for success. . . some days, the other team just matches up well against your weaknesses. . . you can only cover up so much with coaching-- and it's harder to help your tackles when you don't have enough reliable TEs to play heavy sets. . . are there some things they could have tried that they didn't? sure. . . i just have a hard time being too critical of a staff that does get it right so frequently. . . and lynch did miss some easy throws, as well. . . and we had a drop or two. . . it was one of those perfect storm games where most of the things that could go wrong did. . . like brandon marshall blowing coverages, and the safeties missing some tackles. . . just not sharp enough, across the board-- other than maybe the corners and edge rushers. . . you can only correct so much with different playcalls when your guys are making that many mistakes. . . i think we'll be fine, but we really do need stephenson and virgil green back. . .

MOtorboat
10-11-2016, 02:29 AM
add another TE to the list as well. . .




as others have said, passing a lot with a rookie QB when you can't protect him isn't a great formula for success. . . some days, the other team just matches up well against your weaknesses. . . you can only cover up so much with coaching-- and it's harder to help your tackles when you don't have enough reliable TEs to play heavy sets. . . are there some things they could have tried that they didn't? sure. . . i just have a hard time being too critical of a staff that does get it right so frequently. . . and lynch did miss some easy throws, as well. . . and we had a drop or two. . . it was one of those perfect storm games where most of the things that could go wrong did. . . like brandon marshall blowing coverages, and the safeties missing some tackles. . . just not sharp enough, across the board-- other than maybe the corners and edge rushers. . . you can only correct so much with different playcalls when your guys are making that many mistakes. . . i think we'll be fine, but we really do need stephenson and virgil green back. . .

I like that you mentioned the other team. Sometimes, the opposing team is just better that day, and that's fair.

Mike Hawk
10-11-2016, 08:31 AM
Calling it negative plays is a stretch. When you have 4 starting OL rated at below 50 that is horrile game.

I can recall 2 sacks where he held onto it too long and resulted in negative plays. He was strip sacked twice by unblocked beasley which is another two. Then that leaves 2 more sacks that where do to pressure coming so quick and i think i was due to not throwing it out of bounds and running short of los. He was preasured on 43% of dropbacks. He was having bad footwork, seeing ghosts and had some erratic throws due to it. Yet he still had 65% completion.

On some throws he held onto it too but still got ball out after moving around and avoiding more sacks.

You can talk about its shiny brown color, it's soft texture, or maybe it great ability to sometimes float, but at the the end of the day poop is still poop, lol.

There were plenty of problems that game, and Lynch was one of the big ones. It doesn't mean he won't develop into a great QB with some better blocking and more time. It's just a bit disappointing he seems so far behind the other rookie QBs at the moment.

Tned
10-11-2016, 08:39 AM
You can talk about its shiny brown color, it's soft texture, or maybe it great ability to sometimes float, but at the the end of the day poop is still poop, lol.

There were plenty of problems that game, and Lynch was one of the big ones. It doesn't mean he won't develop into a great QB with some better blocking and more time. It's just a bit disappointing he seems so far behind the other rookie QBs at the moment.

He also misses the fact that when a QB plays that awful, it hurts the running game and the pass blocking, just like if he was completing passes and making the offense pay, it would open up the running game. The pieces do certainly work together and when pass blocking is bad, it hurts the QB, but welcome to the NFL. We've been talking about crappy O-line protection for what three years, five years, longer?

Also, much of the talk leading up to the weekend about why we needed to switch from Siemian to Lynch was that he would be able to handle the poor pass protection better due to his mobility.

NightTerror218
10-11-2016, 10:22 AM
He also misses the fact that when a QB plays that awful, it hurts the running game and the pass blocking, just like if he was completing passes and making the offense pay, it would open up the running game. The pieces do certainly work together and when pass blocking is bad, it hurts the QB, but welcome to the NFL. We've been talking about crappy O-line protection for what three years, five years, longer?

Also, much of the talk leading up to the weekend about why we needed to switch from Siemian to Lynch was that he would be able to handle the poor pass protection better due to his mobility.

You do realize that that the amount of pressure on lynch is the type of pressure the broncos have had against teams last season. Holding them to worse stats then lynch had. In playoff against NE and Car we presssure QBs on 40% of dropbacks and that was considered elite defense status. It led to OL coach for pars being fired. The QBs each had a low 60 QB rating. And you expect lynch to come in and do better then Brady in the same scenario in the terms of pressure?

NightTerror218
10-11-2016, 10:25 AM
And the running game has been off the last 3 games. Which doesnt help a rookie qb out either.

He made plenty if mistakes that game, like i mentioned saw ghosts, was unsettled and erratic. But i still hold on to siemian would not have done better when you ol makes a differencest round bust look like miller or mack.

underrated29
10-11-2016, 10:29 AM
You might have a better gauge on the truth of things, I'm going off gut feel and J. Lynch's commentary. Seemed like he cost points (in the statistical, expected value sense) from holding the ball too long on plays where a vet might have that spidey sense that you can't hold the ball that long in those circumstances. Lynch should be fine with more seasoning, time to learn the offense and get his feet right, and better pass pro.

When I re-watched it, Lynch wasnt quite ready to pull the trigger and throw guys open. He would wait for them to get open. There was one play in the RZ where he easily had DT across the middle for a TD. DIdnt throw it and I think we took a sack. Those are the things that come with experience. HOlding the ball high to his chin and not having the Jay cutler wind up is another. Good experience for him. Hopefully we do not have to see him again this year.

gregbroncs
10-11-2016, 07:07 PM
If I'm thinking of the same one, didn't #52 (I think, the dude playing the left side from d's perspective) lose track of the play and miss his assignment? Is a safety supposed to take position based of cues from LBs? I honestly don't know this stuff, but I remember the distinct thought that the LB was lost on that play and was the cause of the big gash. I could see excusing some of the conservative angle from not wanting to give up a home run, but Stewart did cut it super wide, and heck maybe contain or whatever was strictly his responsibility. In that case ... damn. Nah, still huge fan of Stewart. He'll show you next week.
I like Stewart. I just don't think he had a particularly good game.

wayninja
10-11-2016, 07:35 PM
When I re-watched it, Lynch wasnt quite ready to pull the trigger and throw guys open. He would wait for them to get open. There was one play in the RZ where he easily had DT across the middle for a TD. DIdnt throw it and I think we took a sack. Those are the things that come with experience. HOlding the ball high to his chin and not having the Jay cutler wind up is another. Good experience for him. Hopefully we do not have to see him again this year.

If the Oline performance doesn't improve, we are going to not only see him again, but probably a bit of Austin Davis as well.

Mike Hawk
10-11-2016, 07:45 PM
If the Oline performance doesn't improve, we are going to not only see him again, but probably a bit of Austin Davis as well.

So overdramatic around here....

spikerman
10-11-2016, 08:10 PM
So overdramatic around here....

Actually, it's pretty accurate. The offensive line was an embarrassment on Sunday and hasn't been good for several weeks.

wayninja
10-11-2016, 08:29 PM
So overdramatic around here....

I find it difficult to argue with Mike Hawk. It's like dealing with a force of nature.

Mike Hawk
10-11-2016, 08:33 PM
Actually, it's pretty accurate. The offensive line was an embarrassment on Sunday and hasn't been good for several weeks.

No the o-line hasn't been good since at least the middle of 2014

Manning multiple times, Osweiler, and Siemian have all been hurt in the last year

It's just funny that people are suddenly acting like this is a new problem.

spikerman
10-11-2016, 08:48 PM
It's just funny that people are suddenly acting like this is a new problem.
Who's doing that?

spikerman
10-11-2016, 08:49 PM
I find it difficult to argue with Mike Hawk. It's like dealing with a force of nature.

It helps if you choke him or rub him gently. Either way works.

wayninja
10-11-2016, 08:50 PM
No the o-line hasn't been good since at least the middle of 2014

Manning multiple times, Osweiler, and Siemian have all been hurt in the last year

It's just funny that people are suddenly acting like this is a new problem.

Yeah, that would be funny, if it weren't completely contrived by you.