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BroncoWave
10-03-2016, 12:09 PM
It seems like everyone is on the hype train for Von as DPOY, but his biggest competition in the league for that award might be on his own team in Aqib Talib. I personally would still give the nod to Von, but I think Aqib has made it a valid debate. What do you guys think?

Mike
10-03-2016, 12:12 PM
Int's are harder to come by without the pass rush. Love Talib though....2nd most valuable player.

NightTrainLayne
10-03-2016, 12:45 PM
Derek Wolfe.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
10-03-2016, 01:52 PM
Von gets doubled and it opens the door for others to beat simpler protections. That pass rush opens the door for the secondary to make plays.

Valar Morghulis
10-03-2016, 01:59 PM
I think Webster

Buff
10-03-2016, 02:02 PM
I think Webster

It's definitely not Cody Latimer you silly c**t!

TXBRONC
10-03-2016, 02:06 PM
Miller hands down.

BroncoJoe
10-03-2016, 02:08 PM
It seems like everyone is on the hype train for Von as DPOY, but his biggest competition in the league for that award might be on his own team in Aqib Talib. I personally would still give the nod to Von, but I think Aqib has made it a valid debate. What do you guys think?

I think you're looking for dumb subjects to start threads.

:yo:

Valar Morghulis
10-03-2016, 02:15 PM
It's definitely not Cody Latimer you silly c**t!

No, but if he played defense I bet it would be him

BroncoWave
10-03-2016, 02:36 PM
I think you're looking for dumb subjects to start threads.

:yo:

FWIW, you can blame Buff for giving me the idea for this thread. I saw him post "Talib DPOY in another thread and it made me wonder how many people really think that. Clearly not many. :lol:

BroncoJoe
10-03-2016, 02:39 PM
FWIW, you can blame Buff for giving me the idea for this thread. I saw him post "Talib DPOY in another thread and it made me wonder how many people really think that. Clearly not many. :lol:

I blame Buff for nearly everything.

He makes it so easy.

The Glue Factory
10-03-2016, 02:56 PM
Brent Oswhiner

Slick
10-03-2016, 03:00 PM
Von's greatness allows both Wolfe and Talib to do what they do.

Slick
10-03-2016, 03:01 PM
When teams are getting ready to play Denver, they are more worried about Von Miller than any other player on the defense. They're all so good though. So fun to watch this defense play.

The Glue Factory
10-03-2016, 05:41 PM
Von's greatness allows both Wolfe and Talib to do what they do.

Brent's departure paved the way for Von's contract to be paid. Thank you Texans.

BroncoWave
10-03-2016, 07:44 PM
To play devils advocate, I think it works both ways sometimes. It helps the CBs to have guys like Von rushing the passer. But it also helps the pass rusher have time to get to the QB if the CBs are sticking with the WRs for a long time, which can lead to a coverage sack. Our D has the advantage of having it work both ways, which really helps obviously.

NightTerror218
10-03-2016, 10:24 PM
Miller for sure. He gets double teamed and makes plays anyways. I think this has helped free up other pass rushers.

Talib is 2nd on my list. Pass rush creates quicker forced throws he can jump routes. Pass rush and coverage play hand in hand. Coverage makes QB hold ball we get sack or a hurried pass.



I love this defense.

Jaded
10-04-2016, 12:56 AM
To play devils advocate, I think it works both ways sometimes. It helps the CBs to have guys like Von rushing the passer. But it also helps the pass rusher have time to get to the QB if the CBs are sticking with the WRs for a long time, which can lead to a coverage sack. Our D has the advantage of having it work both ways, which really helps obviously.

There are far more coverage sacks than I think we're giving credit for.

Joel
10-04-2016, 04:31 AM
How many times has someone else made a huge play because Talib draws a double team EVERY play?

Valar Morghulis
10-04-2016, 04:36 AM
How many times has someone else made a huge play because Talib draws a double team EVERY play?

How many times has a quarterback had to throw to his number 2 receiver who is covered by our equally good cornerback, or check down because talib is making their number one receiver out of the game?

EastCoastBronco
10-04-2016, 07:04 AM
Derek Wolfe

Davii
10-04-2016, 07:23 AM
How many times has someone else made a huge play because Talib draws a double team EVERY play?

I see what you're saying here Joel, but to be fair CBs don't get "double teamed". They're forced to make a choice on many, many route combos and you can see that Talib is forced to make choices in coverage whenever they play zone every game, so in a sense he gets "double teamed" as well. Outside of that I'd challenge you to show me where any CB, how about the great Champ Bailey, show me where he was double teamed in man coverage please.

TXBRONC
10-04-2016, 08:05 AM
I see what you're saying here Joel, but to be fair CBs don't get "double teamed". They're forced to make a choice on many, many route combos and you can see that Talib is forced to make choices in coverage whenever they play zone every game, so in a sense he gets "double teamed" as well. Outside of that I'd challenge you to show me where any CB, how about the great Champ Bailey, show me where he was double teamed in man coverage please.

It would be a first for me to see a cornerback get double teamed.

CoachChaz
10-04-2016, 09:25 AM
Cant remember where, but I read an article where it took Miller's sacks and figured out it takes him an average of 2.8 seconds per sack. So...all a corner has to do is cover a receiver for 3 seconds and he's in good shape. Coverage sacks aren't exactly something Von lives off of.

Jaded
10-04-2016, 08:23 PM
Cant remember where, but I read an article where it took Miller's sacks and figured out it takes him an average of 2.8 seconds per sack. So...all a corner has to do is cover a receiver for 3 seconds and he's in good shape. Coverage sacks aren't exactly something Von lives off of.

Coverage sacks are invaluable vs mobile QB's where they'd like to muck rush.

Joel
10-05-2016, 03:57 AM
I see what you're saying here Joel, but to be fair CBs don't get "double teamed". They're forced to make a choice on many, many route combos and you can see that Talib is forced to make choices in coverage whenever they play zone every game, so in a sense he gets "double teamed" as well. Outside of that I'd challenge you to show me where any CB, how about the great Champ Bailey, show me where he was double teamed in man coverage please.
That's just it: Corners usually (especially in our D) have one-on-one assignments, so can have a great game getting blown out 55-0 as long as they shutdown that ONE guy all day. The down side is they're "on an island;" the upside is Revis Island was an All Pro household name even when the Jets were a .500 team. Even if a team runs some kind of zone buster in their direction, everyone knows no one (except Champ in his prime) can cover multiple guys simultaneously.

Flip side, a pass rusher can get stonewalled all day due to opponents assigning as many guys as possible to ENSURING he does, yet still be the key to his teams victory not despite but BECAUSE of that. I appreciate coverage sacks as much as anyone; after all, I'm the guy who says, "a coverage sack is STILL a sack." But pressure picks are at least as common.

Shutdown corners are great because they can take a teams best scorer right out of a game, ALL game. But unless the rest of the secondary's pretty good in its own right, opponents can flip that script by simply avoiding the lone decent CB and picking on all the rest. That's less of an option with a top pass rusher, because tying up multiple blockers gives other rushers a chance to make plays. Put it this way: I bet Von creates a LOT more sacks for Wolfe, Ray, Barrett and even Ware than Talib creates Ints for Harris and Roby. It's just the nature of the beast.

Davii
10-05-2016, 07:34 AM
That's just it: Corners usually (especially in our D) have one-on-one assignments, so can have a great game getting blown out 55-0 as long as they shutdown that ONE guy all day. The down side is they're "on an island;" the upside is Revis Island was an All Pro household name even when the Jets were a .500 team. Even if a team runs some kind of zone buster in their direction, everyone knows no one (except Champ in his prime) can cover multiple guys simultaneously.

Flip side, a pass rusher can get stonewalled all day due to opponents assigning as many guys as possible to ENSURING he does, yet still be the key to his teams victory not despite but BECAUSE of that. I appreciate coverage sacks as much as anyone; after all, I'm the guy who says, "a coverage sack is STILL a sack." But pressure picks are at least as common.

Shutdown corners are great because they can take a teams best scorer right out of a game, ALL game. But unless the rest of the secondary's pretty good in its own right, opponents can flip that script by simply avoiding the lone decent CB and picking on all the rest. That's less of an option with a top pass rusher, because tying up multiple blockers gives other rushers a chance to make plays. Put it this way: I bet Von creates a LOT more sacks for Wolfe, Ray, Barrett and even Ware than Talib creates Ints for Harris and Roby. It's just the nature of the beast.

Remember the Green Bay game last year?

We're widely regarded as having the best pass rush AND the best secondary in the league. The two are symbiotic. Remove or degrade either and the other suffers. Your hatred of Aqib is clouding your judgment in my opinion.

iLands
10-05-2016, 09:56 AM
No option for Wade?

I vote Wade.

Joel
10-06-2016, 12:53 AM
No option for Wade?

I vote Wade.
Works for me. Luv Ya Blue and Orange?

Davii
10-06-2016, 07:43 AM
If Wade pulled on a helmet he'd get my vote, but since this is for players it's got to be Von.

wayninja
10-06-2016, 07:40 PM
While I think there are a few other players that deserve to be at least options on the poll, I have to say Talib at this point. His success has been helped by the pressure the line brings, he's had the single highest contribution of high caliber plays of any player on Defense this year.

Hawgdriver
10-06-2016, 09:12 PM
Talib. He has played more snaps than Von, had as many or more killing 'playmaker' shots, and he didn't accidentally hospitalize Demarcus Ware.