If both healthy, which QB starts week 5 and why?

[Tned]

Ok, let's hear it.

[BroncoWave]

I want Lynch to but Siemian probably will.

[CrazyHorse]

Tebow. Obv.

[Tned]

I want Lynch to but Siemian probably will.

Why?

[VonDoom]

I'm encouraged by what we saw from Lynch today. I'm glad we got to see what he has in a real game setting.

That being said, I don't replace Siemian. He was good again and I see no reason to mess with success now

[BroncoWave]

Why?

Because he is clearly more talented and seemed more than mentally ready to handle regular season football today.

[BroncoBuckeye73]

I think Siemian starts next week but i have to say that Lynch easily has a stronger arm and is more athletic and I still think he will eventually be the starter before the end of the season. The play just before we kicked the field goal in the second Lynch did not complete the pass but that stiff arm to avoid the sack was awesome.

[Tned]

Because he is clearly more talented and seemed more than mentally ready to handle regular season football today.

Do you think Lynch gives team the best chance to win now, or is it more about willing to sacrifice a little now, to get the long term option ready?

[Slick]

Lynch seems to have the better physical tools, better arm, mobility, bigger, stronger and faster, which is what I said in the other thread. Siemian has a very valuable year already under his belt so I don't question the decision to start him.


Other than the second half in Cincinnati, when Trevor was on fire, I don't see anything that Siemian does that Lynch couldn't do.

I'd start Lynch and get the growing pains out of the way but I understand why Siemian was named the starter. Please try not to misrepresent what I said like you did in the game day thread, Tned. That was a jerk move.

[Simple Jaded]

I bet Trevor Siemian, and the main reason is because Kubiak is super gay for Trevor Siemian.

[I Eat Staples]

I bet Trevor Siemian, and the main reason is because Kubiak is super gay for Trevor Siemian.

So do you think he just prefers clean shaven men?

[Canmore]

Because he is clearly more talented and seemed more than mentally ready to handle regular season football today.

Where do you come up with this trash?

[Tned]

Lynch seems to have the better physical tools, better arm, mobility, bigger, stronger and faster, which is what I said in the other thread. Siemian has a very valuable year already under his belt so I don't question the decision to start him.


Other than the second half in Cincinnati, when Trevor was on fire, I don't see anything that Siemian does that Lynch couldn't do.

I'd start Lynch and get the growing pains out of the way but I understand why Siemian was named the starter. Please try not to misrepresent what I said like you did in the game day thread, Tned. That was a jerk move.

You said that you believed the team would have the same record with Lynch, among other things.

[I Eat Staples]

I would be fine with either one starting. Siemian was bad for 2 games and really good last week. He was pretty good in limited opportunities today and then started to get eaten up by the D-line.

Lynch looked raw as you'd expect, but he showed off that canon arm and his athleticism, made plays, and looked like he was more than comfortable running the offense. He can play from under center just fine (lol at Wilcotts) and looked to have a good feel for the game.

Lynch is a better QB, but if you go to Lynch now, you really can't go back. If you put Trevor back in there you can always replace him with Lynch later if he struggles. Like I said I'm fine with either one, but I think I'd just go all in with Lynch.

[I Eat Staples]

Where do you come up with this trash?

So you think Lynch isn't talented? Or did he do something to show you he isn't ready to play in the NFL right now? If so, what makes you think that?

[Nomad]

I like both QBs, it's who is better between the ears. So I haven't a clue, I hope the coaches do.

[Slick]

You said that you believed the team would have the same record with Lynch, among other things.

Right, because I believe that to be true. The other things I said were the same things I'm saying in this thread. You make it sound like I was running Trevor Siemian down which simply isn't true. Trevor's played well and I've acknowledged that.

[BroncoBuckeye73]

Slick I totally agree with you but I still think Siemian starts next week. This to me is still a good problem to have as we have to completely capable QB's. Lynch's obvious athletic abilities really stood out today, Siemian can make all those throws too but not with that velocity and as impressive as Siemian looked on the move Lynch looks better. We have right now a howitzer starting and a developing rail gun behind him, it is only a matter of time before the switch happens.

[DenBronx]

I'm thinking they still stick with Trevor. He has played really good. But...Lynch has way more upside and if he's ready now then why not right?

I feel bad for Trevor because that leash just got shorter. If he wants to be starter he will have to play mistake free. Atlanta is going to be our toughest test until the BYE imo so I think Trevor better play smart.


But Lynch is definitely our future.

[Simple Jaded]

So do you think he just prefers clean shaven men?

Trevor laughs at his lame jokes.

[Tned]

I think it will be Siemian, because he looks to give the team the best chance to win NOW and they are a Super Bowl contending team.

When you look at Siemian from the perspective of his first three NFL starts and first 100 pass attempts, he's played just short of amazing. He's clearly more comfortable in the pocket and makes more accurate throws. We have more receivers thrown into hard hits in the one half with Lynch than happened with the three and a half games with Siemian.

On the other hand, while he would almost certainly be a blow to the Broncos chance to win now, Lynch showed the great athleticism that we are all excited about. When he has more experience under his belt, he has the potential to be a very good QB. The strength, mobility and cannon arm, "could" be an amazing combo for the Broncos for a long time, but we've all seen lots of athletic QBs come and go that couldn't be quality NFL starters, forget top tier ones. My hope is that Lynch can be a top tier QB in time.

Right now, I think Siemian is the obvious choice to start, since the Broncos aren't going to anxious to simply put Lynch in to get past his growing pains, when the team is sitting 4-0.

[BroncoWave]

Where do you come up with this trash?

Um, are you really disagreeing that Lynch has better physical tools than Siemian? You can debate who gives us the better chance to win right now, but there is zero debate as to who has better physical tools. Come on man.

[BroncoWave]

Do you think Lynch gives team the best chance to win now, or is it more about willing to sacrifice a little now, to get the long term option ready?

Siemian probably gives us a slightly better chance to win if the o-line is playing well, but if they are playing like shit like today, Lynch gives us a better chance because he can escape the pressure.

[Slick]

Slick I totally agree with you but I still think Siemian starts next week. This to me is still a good problem to have as we have to completely capable QB's. Lynch's obvious athletic abilities really stood out today, Siemian can make all those throws too but not with that velocity and as impressive as Siemian looked on the move Lynch looks better. We have right now a howitzer starting and a developing rail gun behind him, it is only a matter of time before the switch happens.

I'm fine with that. Glad to know I'm not the only one who thinks Lynch's physical tools are obvious.

[BORDERLINE]

Both looked impressive. One has done it for 3 1/2 games more. So IMO Trevor gets the nod and we have a little piece of mind at #2

[BroncoWave]

I'm fine with that. Glad to know I'm not the only one who thinks Lynch's physical tools are obvious.

I'm utterly shocked that anyone at all is debating that their physical tools are even close. Lynch clearly has the better arm and is much better at evading pressure. It's not even a question.

[BroncoWave]

Tweet from Mase:

"With Lynch at the controls, the Broncos averaged 2.5 first downs, 40.8 yards and 2.17 points per possession -- all well above NFL averages."

[Bronco4ever]

Until Siemian is completely ineffective, gives up a bunch of turnovers, or costs us games, I don't see us making a switch to Lynch. Lynch's potential is obvious, but I think Siemian is the guy for now. I think Lynch even outplayed TS today, but I don't think he's done anything necessitate a switch.

[Slick]

I'm utterly shocked that anyone at all is debating that their physical tools are even close. Lynch clearly has the better arm and is much better at evading pressure. It's not even a question.

Well when you say things like that it means you are running Siemian down and feelers get hurt.

[Simple Jaded]

After everything Siemian has done for you? Smh

[Canmore]

So you think Lynch isn't talented? Or did he do something to show you he isn't ready to play in the NFL right now? If so, what makes you think that?

I honestly don't know what to think. Still, this is the quote, "Because he is clearly more talented and seemed more than mentally ready to handle regular season football today.

Bolded for emphasis. Where is the data?

[Tned]

Well when you say things like that it means you are running Siemian down and feelers get hurt.

Slick, the way you are posting, sounds like your feelers got hurt.

[BroncoWave]

I honestly don't know what to think. Still, this is the quote, "Because he is clearly more talented and seemed more than mentally ready to handle regular season football today.

Bolded for emphasis. Where is the data?

What data? You can just tell from watching them play that Lynch has better physical tools. You don't need data to prove that.

And the "more than mentally ready" part didn't mean he is more mentally ready than TS. Just that he is more than mentally ready enough to be effective.

[Canmore]

Um, are you really disagreeing that Lynch has better physical tools than Siemian? You can debate who gives us the better chance to win right now, but there is zero debate as to who has better physical tools. Come on man.

Have you played the position? I have! Trevor clearly has the physical tools, more importantly, he seems TO ME has the mental aspect of the game down. I like his throws better.

Any other questions?

[NightTrainLayne]

If they're both 100%, I have no doubt that Siemian starts.

2+ quarters, 14-24 and one TD, is great for a QB's first live action. Wonderful. Excellent. But it isn't enough to unseat Siemian yet, unless something is going on in practice that would cause the coaches to make the switch even without the injury.

Both seem to be developing great. But if they're both healthy, nothing we saw today would seem to dictate that Lynch should now get the nod, when he didn't before.

[I Eat Staples]

Have you played the position? I have! Trevor clearly has the physical tools, more importantly, he seems TO ME has the mental aspect of the game down. I like his throws better.

Any other questions?

"Former QB thinks Trevor Siemian is a better QB than Paxton Lynch."

The hot takes.

[Canmore]

"Former QB thinks Trevor Siemian is a better QB than Paxton Lynch."

The hot takes.

I didn't say that. I like Siemian know. The future is untold.

[BroncoWave]

Have you played the position? I have! Trevor clearly has the physical tools, more importantly, he seems TO ME has the mental aspect of the game down. I like his throws better.

Any other questions?

You played QB huh? Well you aren't first place right now in the BF pickem standings so what do you know? :D

[Simple Jaded]

"Former QB thinks Trevor Siemian is a better QB than Paxton Lynch."

The hot takes.

Well it should count for something.

[Canmore]

You played QB huh? Well you aren't first place right now in the BF pickem standings so what do you know? :D

Wave, I'm still laughing. Just when you drive me up a wall...

[Slick]

Slick, the way you are posting, sounds like your feelers got hurt.

Yeah, you pissed me off, Tned. You used words like "idiotic" and "lack of understanding" when I wasn't even questioning why Siemian was starting.

[NightTrainLayne]

At this point I can't imagine a knowledgeable fan questioning Kubiak et al on handling Quarterbacks.

Whoever they decide to run out there next week will be the right choice, and will be prepared appropriately.

[Simple Jaded]

You played QB huh? Well you aren't first place right now in the BF pickem standings so what do you know? :D

Ok this should count for something too.

Idk anymore, I'm conflicted.

[BroncoWave]

Well it should count for something.

Danny Kannell played QB but he has the worst football takes on the planet. Having played it doesn't necessarily mean you can evaluate it. And not having played it doesn't necessarily mean you can't.

[DenBronx]

Trevor clearly has the physical tools, more importantly, he seems TO ME has the mental aspect of the game down. I like his throws better.

Trevor spins it very well, is accurate, is very mentally stable, controls the huddle and has shown nothing but humility and leadership.

I think Lynch has those same qualities and more. But...I really believe we will stick with Trevor and once we go Lynch we don't go back. Atlanta is next and it's another test for Trevor. If Trevor beats Atlanta then that buys him even more time, imo.

This is a good problem to have though people! However, If Denver got offered a high draft pick for Siemian I don't know how they turn it down. We are in excellent position either way.

[Canmore]

Trevor spins it very well, is accurate, is very mentally stable, controls the huddle and has shown nothing but humility and leadership.

I think Lynch has those same qualities and more. But...I really believe we will stick with Trevor and once we go Lynch we don't go back. Atlanta is next and it's another test for Trevor. If Trevor beats Atlanta then that buys him even more time, imo.

This is a good problem to have though people! However, If Denver got offered a high draft pick for Siemian I don't know how they turn it down. We are in excellent position either way.

What you say has a lot of merit. I understand the business side of this.

[DenBronx]

So reports are saying Siemian has an AC joint sprain. I am not sure how serious this is but maybe the Broncos without creating a QB controversy can just tell Trevor they want him to heal up this week. This gives Paxton another look and allows Trevor some time.

[I Eat Staples]

So reports are saying Siemian has an AC joint sprain. I am not sure how serious this is but maybe the Broncos without creating a QB controversy can just tell Trevor they want him to heal up this week. This gives Paxton another look and allows Trevor some time.

Garoppolo missed 2 games with that injury this season and Bradford missed 2 with it last season.

[DenBronx]

So reports are saying Siemian has an AC joint sprain. I am not sure how serious this is but maybe the Broncos without creating a QB controversy can just tell Trevor they want him to heal up this week. This gives Paxton another look and allows Trevor some time.

Garoppolo missed 2 games with that injury this season and Bradford missed 2 with it last season.


Interesting. I don't see how we don't roll with Lynch then. I think he is a tougher match up for Atlanta.

[Simple Jaded]

Danny Kannell played QB but he has the worst football takes on the planet. Having played it doesn't necessarily mean you can evaluate it. And not having played it doesn't necessarily mean you can't.

But Kanell's opinion should count for something, I'm not saying he should take Elway's GM duties.

[Tned]

So reports are saying Siemian has an AC joint sprain. I am not sure how serious this is but maybe the Broncos without creating a QB controversy can just tell Trevor they want him to heal up this week. This gives Paxton another look and allows Trevor some time.

That presumes the Broncos want an excuse to start Lynch.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Lynch is more physically talented than most qb's in the NFL. However I am doubtful he has half the grasp on the offense Siemian does.

[Canmore]

Lynch is more physically talented than most qb's in the NFL. However I am doubtful he has half the grasp on the offense Siemian does.

On this we agree!

[BroncoWave]

On this we agree!

That's all I was saying and you were trashing me! I'm not debating that Siemian probably has a better mental grasp on things right now, just that his physical talents are not what Lynch's are.

[I Eat Staples]

I don't see what Siemian has done to make people think he has some masterful grasp on the offense. He's adequately managed the game in Kubiak's system, but he hasn't done anything special. And it's not like Lynch looked clueless out there. He looked just as comfortable if you ask me.

[Canmore]

That's all I was saying and you were trashing me! I'm not debating that Siemian probably has a better mental grasp on things right now, just that his physical talents are not what Lynch's are.

Maybe we are arguing the same side of the coin.

I don't have a ton of info on P Lynch.

Still here is what I think.

Trevor throws a better ball. Trevor seems to have a better grasp of the mental side of the game.

He should. He's been in the system a year longer.

Trevor has better mechanics. Something that we bashed Tebow for. In fact, his footwork and delivery are near picture perfect, my opinion.

Again, he should. Still, that doesn't take away from the facts.

Bottom line; Trevor appears TO ME to be better prepared to win THIS YEAR. That is all I care about.

Next year... rock n roll.

[Joel]

Siemian, because he's better prepared, if less athletic. And because our protection and run support remain awful; I don't miss having TWO QBs playing hurt. Someone's gotta take those lumps, but if it's Siemian we're (probably) not risking the franchise. Also, Lynch looked OK, but it was only for a SINGLE HALF; Siemian's looked good for 3½ games, so we know about 7X as much about how well his in-game performance will hold up throughout a game. Finally, I don't like defenses taking one look at our formation or personnel and instantly knowing whether we're running (under center) or passing (shotgun.)

The official word was that we started the season with Siemian because he simply outperformed Lynch in practice and "gives us the best chance to win." If he's at or near 100% next week, I see no reason that's changed.

[Tned]

I don't see what Siemian has done to make people think he has some masterful grasp on the offense. He's adequately managed the game in Kubiak's system, but he hasn't done anything special. And it's not like Lynch looked clueless out there. He looked just as comfortable if you ask me.

Just led the Broncos to a 3 1/2 win start, going up against several tough defenses, where most experts felt the Broncos would be lucky to be 2-2.

He has the 8th highest passer rating in the league
Highest 4th quarter passer rating (by like 30 points going into week 4)
Two fourth quarter comebacks in first three games
5th in yards per pass
2nd in 1st down %
7th in 40+ yard plays

I can't find the stat, but his 3rd down conversion is gaudy.

The 3-0 start and those stats, not to mention, watching his play, makes it clear he does have a pretty masterful grasp of the offense.


That's all I was saying and you were trashing me! I'm not debating that Siemian probably has a better mental grasp on things right now, just that his physical talents are not what Lynch's are.

There is zero doubt that Lynch is more physically gifted. That really isn't the question, because physical gifts rarely make a great QB. A great QB with great physical gifts is a bonus, no doubt. It's all about whether or not he can become a very good to elite QB, and that is still a big question mark. Even whether or not he can outplay Siemian, is a big question mark.

[Joel]

Lynch seems to have the better physical tools, better arm, mobility, bigger, stronger and faster, which is what I said in the other thread. Siemian has a very valuable year already under his belt so I don't question the decision to start him.

Other than the second half in Cincinnati, when Trevor was on fire, I don't see anything that Siemian does that Lynch couldn't do.

I'd start Lynch and get the growing pains out of the way but I understand why Siemian was named the starter.
Officially, because he outperformed Lynch in practice, a good reason to dance with the one who brung us. Also, the main growing pains right now are in Siemians left shoulder, so unless we get a lot better at protecting our QB or diverting blitzers with a legit running game in the next 6 days: Keep Lynch safely benched.

[Tned]

Maybe we are arguing the same side of the coin.

I don't have a ton of info on P Lynch.

Still here is what I think.

Trevor throws a better ball. Trevor seems to have a better grasp of the mental side of the game.

He should. He's been in the system a year longer.

Trevor has better mechanics. Something that we bashed Tebow for. In fact, his footwork and delivery are near picture perfect, my opinion.

Again, he should. Still, that doesn't take away from the facts.

Bottom line; Trevor appears TO ME to be better prepared to win THIS YEAR. That is all I care about.

Next year... rock n roll.

Exactly, it's all about who gives the Broncos the best chance to get back to the Super Bowl this year. Based on what we know (media reports from camp/preseason, preseasaon games, and now 1/2 of real games watching Lynch), that sure seems to be Siemian at this time.

[BroncoWave]

Just led the Broncos to a 3 1/2 win start, going up against several tough defenses, where most experts felt the Broncos would be lucky to be 2-2.

He has the 8th highest passer rating in the league
Highest 4th quarter passer rating (by like 30 points going into week 4)
Two fourth quarter comebacks in first three games
5th in yards per pass
2nd in 1st down %
7th in 40+ yard plays

I can't find the stat, but his 3rd down conversion is gaudy.

The 3-0 start and those stats, not to mention, watching his play, makes it clear he does have a pretty masterful grasp of the offense.



There is zero doubt that Lynch is more physically gifted. That really isn't the question, because physical gifts rarely make a great QB. A great QB with great physical gifts is a bonus, no doubt. It's all about whether or not he can become a very good to elite QB, and that is still a big question mark. Even whether or not he can outplay Siemian, is a big question mark.

Just in today's game, I thought Lynch clearly outplayed Siemian. That was mostly due to the fact that Lynch was able to break out of sacks when Siemian was pretty much going down on first contact. That made a huge difference offensively. Our offense got completely shut down in the first half minus the two drives where we got pretty much insta-scores after Talib picks.

[Canmore]

I don't see what Siemian has done to make people think he has some masterful grasp on the offense. He's adequately managed the game in Kubiak's system, but he hasn't done anything special. And it's not like Lynch looked clueless out there. He looked just as comfortable if you ask me.

Jesus. Siemian just got done with throwing for 300+ yards, 4 TDs and no interceptions in his first road start. No one has done that in the history of the game! I think he has small grasp of the game.

[Tned]

Just in today's game, I thought Lynch clearly outplayed Siemian. That was mostly due to the fact that Lynch was able to break out of sacks when Siemian was pretty much going down on first contact. That made a huge difference offensively. Our offense got completely shut down in the first half minus the two drives where we got pretty much insta-scores after Talib picks.

Actually, Siemian on at least two sacks (possibly three) broke first contact and was sacked by the second.

No question that Lynch can do more with his feet, but there is also no question that he was far less accurate throwing from the pocket and on the move than Siemian has been this year. While Siemian took a few sacks today, through the first three games he had done an excellent job of getting rid of the ball, even if that meant throwing it away to avoid sacks.

The nearly complete lack of running game in the first half really hurt Siemian, who finished with 142 passer rating, but on only 7 passes. No doubt this wasn't his best half of football. Not horrible by any stretch, but not his best.

The only thing Lynch did better in this game was scramble. He has a stronger arm, but as you've seen, Siemian's arm is plenty strong to throw the deep ball, he just doesn't heave it up when there is the smart play is underneath.

As pointed out in the stat above, he's currently sitting 5th in yards per pass, so it's not like he's throwing screen passes all game long.

[DenBronx]

So reports are saying Siemian has an AC joint sprain. I am not sure how serious this is but maybe the Broncos without creating a QB controversy can just tell Trevor they want him to heal up this week. This gives Paxton another look and allows Trevor some time.

That presumes the Broncos want an excuse to start Lynch.


Yes, I am implying that. Haha

[Slick]

Just led the Broncos to a 3 1/2 win start, going up against several tough defenses, where most experts felt the Broncos would be lucky to be 2-2.

He has the 8th highest passer rating in the league
Highest 4th quarter passer rating (by like 30 points going into week 4)
Two fourth quarter comebacks in first three games
5th in yards per pass
2nd in 1st down %
7th in 40+ yard plays

I can't find the stat, but his 3rd down conversion is gaudy.

The 3-0 start and those stats, not to mention, watching his play, makes it clear he does have a pretty masterful grasp of the offense.



There is zero doubt that Lynch is more physically gifted. That really isn't the question, because physical gifts rarely make a great QB. A great QB with great physical gifts is a bonus, no doubt. It's all about whether or not he can become a very good to elite QB, and that is still a big question mark. Even whether or not he can outplay Siemian, is a big question mark.

They're both still question marks though, aren't they? You don't think Lynch looked better than Siemian today?

[DenBronx]

I'm a little confused on it. My head tells me Trevor but gut is saying Paxton.

Glad the coaches are making this decision.

[dogfish]

haven't read the thread. . .


but if they're both healthy, trevor starts. . . because he's the starter. . . no need to overthink this one, fellas! chill back and relax. . . gary's all over it. . . if you hadn't noticed, juggling quarterbacks without missing a beat is now his official specialty. . . given that BOTH options are superior to anything he had to work with on last year's title team, i have strongly positive feelings regardless of which signal caller starts the next game. . . as long as von miller and aqib are out there. . .

[Canmore]

They're both still question marks though, aren't they? You don't think Lynch looked better than Siemian today?

No!

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Trevor's total qb rating was almost 50 points higher than Paxton's today, so there's that...

[OrangeHoof]

Personally, if (as the OP states) both QBs are healthy, I think you go back to Siemian. If he can endure the pain and it does not affect his throwing motion, he should be able to return at 100% performance. His performance this year has been more than good enough to win.

I like Lynch and he is still our QBOTF. I don't like him playing behind our weak sauce OL. The longer we can hold off playing Lynch except in garbage time, the healthier a transition he can have.

[dogfish]

Trevor's total qb rating was almost 50 points higher than Paxton's today, so there's that...

sure, but let's talk about billy winn. . . how much do you think jaded is loving boise right now?

[Slick]

No!

Boy not me.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

sure, but let's talk about billy winn. . . how much do you think jaded is loving boise right now?

Did you see the hands to snatch that ball and then rumble for 8 yards? :laugh:

I'm sensing a Boise State hat in Jaded's future.

[Hawgdriver]

Tweet from Mase:

"With Lynch at the controls, the Broncos averaged 2.5 first downs, 40.8 yards and 2.17 points per possession -- all well above NFL averages."

And who can argue with that kind of sample size?

[dogfish]

Did you see the hands to snatch that ball and then rumble for 8 yards? :laugh:

I'm sensing a Boise State hat in Jaded's future.

i'm sensing a boise thread in his future. . .




:heh:

[Hawgdriver]

What data? You can just tell from watching

Super incisive.

[TXBRONC]

Ok, let's hear it.

It will be Siemian if he's healthy enough.

[dogfish]

And who can argue with that kind of sample size?

certainly not a man who's gone VTOL on a regular basis, amirite? nobody should feel more comfortable making decisions in close quarters than you, ya bad hombre. . .


:cool:

[Hawgdriver]

Lynch impressed me. I'm fine with our first world problems, and don't give a rip who gets the nod. The cold analyst in me says Siemian on account of 3.5 games of low-turnover, high 3d-down production.

[Canmore]

certainly not a man who's gone VTOL on a regular basis, amirite? nobody should feel more comfortable making decisions in close quarters than you, ya bad hombre. . .


:cool:

I'm the VTOL guy. Just sayin.

[Joel]

They're both still question marks though, aren't they? You don't think Lynch looked better than Siemian today?
Lynch is literally 7X the question mark Siemian is. The pair of 4th qtr comebacks with a top five 4th qtr rating matter, too: LOTS of QBs look great with the double-digit lead Lynch enjoyed all but a SINGLE series, but he's never been in "win or die" situation. Siemian's been there twice, and come through both times, which is what teams need to reach and win playoff games. I'm not saying Lynch couldn't do it, too, but "maybe" is a downgrade from "definitely."

[Magnificent Seven]

Lynch. He is a mobile-quarterback or dual-threat quarterback and he can escape from Falcons defense.

[dogfish]

I'm the VTOL guy. Just sayin.

were you? not sure i knew that. . .

[Canmore]

were you? not sure i knew that. . .

Yah man. I'm the Harrier pilot.

[dogfish]

Yah man. I'm the Harrier pilot.

oh, shit. . .

alright, don't want to hijack this one. . . report to the drunk thread w/ details when you got a moment?

[Slick]

I'm not saying Lynch couldn't do it, too

That's all I was saying.

[Canmore]

oh, shit. . .

alright, don't want to hijack this one. . . report to the drunk thread w/ details when you got a moment?

Gotcha...

[Pudge]

I bet Trevor Siemian, and the main reason is because Kubiak is super gay for Trevor Siemian.

So am I

[Tned]

They're both still question marks though, aren't they? You don't think Lynch looked better than Siemian today?

Very much so. I'm massively impressed with siemian, but far from convinced he's a franchise QB.

This year, most important to have QB in that can win now. Siemian is also example of getting a red shirt freshman year, which lynch could benefit from.

Being thrown into fire, Lynch played great. Compared to polished starter, not great, but as a rookie thrown into a game, he did great.

[Tned]

I'm a little confused on it. My head tells me Trevor but gut is saying Paxton.

Glad the coaches are making this decision.

Because Lynch has the "potential" to be special. An Elway like player in terms of physical gifts. Siemian is playing more like a five year vet than a guy with 3.5 starts, but doesn't have that "potential" label where we think he could be special.

So, even when our eyes can't help but be impressed with Siemian (if they are open), our heart wants to believe Lynch can be great, and can't conceive that the 7th rounder is better.

[Joel]

That's all I was saying.
Yeah, but "we HAS done it" still beats "MAYBE he could do it."

[Simple Jaded]

Did you see the hands to snatch that ball and then rumble for 8 yards? :laugh:

I'm sensing a Boise State hat in Jaded's future.

Low profile, none of that flat bill/billboard bullshit millennials are wearing.

[Hawgdriver]

Yah man. I'm the Harrier pilot.

And you live in Sheridan. Looks like you kicked ass at life. :mhs:

[BroncoBuckeye73]

Right now who really cares who starts next week. Both the QB's in my opinion show potential and good arm strength and are capable of winning games. The eye test we all saw today shows which one has the best physical traits. Unless Siemian has 2 consecutive brain fart Fitzgerald games in a row will he lose his job. He has done enough to keep it, but the talent Lynch showed today he simply can not match.

[TXBRONC]

Lynch. He is a mobile-quarterback or dual-threat quarterback and he can escape from Falcons defense.

The Falcons defense is bad, but then again every defense in the NFC South has already given up 100 plus point.

[CrazyHorse]

Lynch is more physically talented than most qb's in the NFL. However I am doubtful he has half the grasp on the offense Siemian does.

Kubiak the QB whisperer knows this. If Lynch starts next week I expect him to put Lynch in the best situation to succeed. Look to see lots of shotgun.

[Joel]

Kubiak the QB whisperer knows this. If Lynch starts next week I expect him to put Lynch in the best situation to succeed. Look to see lots of shotgun.
Then I pray God there's something to that whole "running out of shotgun's no problem." Because it seemed like nearly every time Lynch was under center today we ran, and every time he was in shotgun we threw. Can't be sure without rewatching the game, but in 7 days Dan Quinn will surely let us know either way. ;)

[CrazyHorse]

Then I pray God there's something to that whole "running out of shotgun's no problem." Because it seemed like nearly every time Lynch was under center today we ran, and every time he was in shotgun we threw. Can't be sure without rewatching the game, but in 7 days Dan Quinn will surely let us know either way. ;)

Yeah, that's a problem as it shows their hand. If they do run with Lynch under center hopefully it's 2 tight ends and a full back. As far as running out of the shotgun, mostly draws and maybe even a few QB designed runs.

[dogfish]

Then I pray God there's something to that whole "running out of shotgun's no problem." Because it seemed like nearly every time Lynch was under center today we ran, and every time he was in shotgun we threw. Can't be sure without rewatching the game, but in 7 days Dan Quinn will surely let us know either way. ;)

only joel can find a reason to pray for a 4-0 team. . .


oh, save us from that terrible man, dan quinn!

[CrazyHorse]

only joel can find a reason to pray for a 4-0 team. . .


oh, save us from that terrible man, dan quinn!

He just knows the importance of the run game and the difficulty of doing so out of shotgun formation. The Falcons do have me a little worried though and will be a great test for Lynch.

[Northman]

Siemien doesnt lose the starting job unless his injury is something more severe (i have yet to hear anything that would confirm that however) so people can expect Siemien to start. Lynch played very well when he came in but Denver still wont rush him into the lineup if they dont need to and Siemien hasnt done anything to warrant being benched in favor of Lynch yet. It was fun to see what Lynch can do out on the field but there is no reason to start him over Siemien at this point.

[FanInAZ]

The only game that I've been able to watch the Broncos was the 1st, & then track how we are doing through stats. Yes, I know stats don't tell you everything, especially when sampling size for Siemian is 9½ quarters to Lynch’s 2½, but it’s all I have to go on for the last 3 games.

Siemian: http://www.nfl.com/player/trevorsiemian/2553457/gamelogs

1) In his 1st game, he looked like someone starting his 1st game. Not bad, but still in needed of a lot of improvement.

2) In his 1st 2 games, he had 1 TD to 3 INTs. Since then, he's had 5 TDs to 0 INTs.

3) While his completion percentage for each game has been 69.2% - 68.7% - 65.7% - 71.4%; his yards per attempt have been 6.8 - 8.1 - 8.9 - 9.7. So while his completion percentage declined over the 1st 3 games before shooting up to his best in the 4th, His yards per attempt has gone up every game. In my opinion, yards per attempt trumps completion percentage.

4) The number of sacks taken during the 1st 3 games doesn't seem that bad in relationship to the number of passing attempts, but what in the world happened today? Is the Bucs pass rush that good, or did something go horribly wrong on our end?

Lynch: http://www.nfl.com/player/paxtonlynch/2555316/gamelogs

1) His 1 TD & 0 INT was better than Siemian’s 1st 2 games combined, but inferior to his game 3 performance. Siemian’s 1 TD in 1½ quarters was better than Lynch getting 1 TD in 2½ quarters.

2) After Siemian led the Broncos to 2 TD drives in 1½ quarters, Lynch led us to 2 FGs & a TD in 2½ quarters.

3) His 58.3% completions were lower than Siemian’s lowest game

4) His 7.1 yards per attempt was lower than all Siemian’s but 1st game.

5) After Siemian got sacked 3 times in just 1½ quarters, Lynch only got sack 1 time in 2½.


Conclusions

The best selling point for Lynch does not show up in most of the stats, better physical tools. This is something we knew the day he was drafted. The only stat that reflexes that fact is the drastic reduction in sacks taken after he came in.

The best selling points for Siemian is that he’s had more time to learn the system which has given him more time to develop his mental tools. As Manning proved during his 4 seasons here, mental tools can trump physical tools. It certainly doesn’t happen every time, but it does happen often enough that you shouldn’t assume that youth with always trump knowledge and vis-a-versa.

The other thing I can see is Siemian getting statically better week after week. Once again, I know, stats don’t tell the full story. Those of you who have seen him in all 4 games can tell me about intangible improvements that he is or is not making that don’t show up in the stat lines. Nevertheless, everything that I’ve heard suggests to me that he is improving. This is why I believe that he is the best choice moving forward.

[EastCoastBronco]

It's not even a question.
If Seimian is healthy he should start.
He's 3-0 as a starter for the love of god.
Have we become such a "right here, right now" society that this is even a question??

Don't answer that.

[TXBRONC]

Siemien doesnt lose the starting job unless his injury is something more severe (i have yet to hear anything that would confirm that however) so people can expect Siemien to start. Lynch played very well when he came in but Denver still wont rush him into the lineup if they dont need to and Siemien hasnt done anything to warrant being benched in favor of Lynch yet. It was fun to see what Lynch can do out on the field but there is no reason to start him over Siemien at this point.

I concur. I don't see Siemian losing his job over this.

[Northman]

I concur. I don't see Siemian losing his job over this.

Apparently according to the Broncos fan club on FB there were some Bronco fans celebrating Siemien's injury. I dont get it and frankly am really disappointed in that whoever they were. I think long term Denver will be in good shape with Lynch because the kid came in and clicked with the team. But Siemien seems to have the same amount of respect from his teammates and has performed well enough to remain the starter for the time being. Its really kind of shocking to me that some fans are this divided on these guys.

[TXBRONC]

The only game that I've been able to watch the Broncos was the 1st, & then track how we are doing through stats. Yes, I know stats don't tell you everything, especially when sampling size for Siemian is 9½ quarters to Lynch’s 2½, but it’s all I have to go on for the last 3 games.

Siemian: http://www.nfl.com/player/trevorsiemian/2553457/gamelogs

1) In his 1st game, he looked like someone starting his 1st game. Not bad, but still in needed of a lot of improvement.

2) In his 1st 2 games, he had 1 TD to 3 INTs. Since then, he's had 5 TDs to 0 INTs.

3) While his completion percentage for each game has been 69.2% - 68.7% - 65.7% - 71.4%; his yards per attempt have been 6.8 - 8.1 - 8.9 - 9.7. So while his completion percentage declined over the 1st 3 games before shooting up to his best in the 4th, His yards per attempt has gone up every game. In my opinion, yards per attempt trumps completion percentage.

4) The number of sacks taken during the 1st 3 games doesn't seem that bad in relationship to the number of passing attempts, but what in the world happened today? Is the Bucs pass rush that good, or did something go horribly wrong on our end?

Lynch: http://www.nfl.com/player/paxtonlynch/2555316/gamelogs

1) His 1 TD & 0 INT was better than Siemian’s 1st 2 games combined, but inferior to his game 3 performance. Siemian’s 1 TD in 1½ quarters was better than Lynch getting 1 TD in 2½ quarters.

2) After Siemian led the Broncos to 2 TD drives in 1½ quarters, Lynch led us to 2 FGs & a TD in 2½ quarters.

3) His 58.3% completions were lower than Siemian’s lowest game

4) His 7.1 yards per attempt was lower than all Siemian’s but 1st game.

5) After Siemian got sacked 3 times in just 1½ quarters, Lynch only got sack 1 time in 2½.


Conclusions

The best selling point for Lynch does not show up in most of the stats, better physical tools. This is something we knew the day he was drafted. The only stat that reflexes that fact is the drastic reduction in sacks taken after he came in.

The best selling points for Siemian is that he’s had more time to learn the system which has given him more time to develop his mental tools. As Manning proved during his 4 seasons here, mental tools can trump physical tools. It certainly doesn’t happen every time, but it does happen often enough that you shouldn’t assume that youth with always trump knowledge and vis-a-versa.

The other thing I can see is Siemian getting statically better week after week. Once again, I know, stats don’t tell the full story. Those of you who have seen him in all 4 games can tell me about intangible improvements that he is or is not making that don’t show up in the stat lines. Nevertheless, everything that I’ve heard suggests to me that he is improving. This is why I believe that he is the best choice moving forward.

An addendum to add is that Lynch was coming off the bench just a little better than halfway through the game. So all of Siemian's based off of him being the starter for four games, three of which were full games. A 58.3% completion percentage coming in just 2 1/2 quarters of play is pretty good considering the circumstances. Also Lynch threw for almost as many yards in 2 1/2 quarters as Siemian did for his entire first start ( 170 for Lynch and 178 for Siemian).

That being said, I don't see how there can be a conversation to name Lynch the full time starter right now. For there to be that kind of converstaion Lynch would have to start for two or three weeks while Siemian heals up. Then there would be something tangible compare. Right now it doesn't look like Siemian is going be out for extended period of time.

[FanInAZ]

An addendum to add is that Lynch was coming off the bench just a little better than halfway through the game. So all of Siemian's based off of him being the starter for four games, three of which were full games. A 58.3% completion percentage coming in just 2 1/2 quarters of play is pretty good considering the circumstances. Also Lynch threw for almost as many yards in 2 1/2 quarters as Siemian did for his entire first start ( 170 for Lynch and 178 for Siemian).

That being said, I don't see how there can be a conversation to name Lynch the full time starter right now. For there to be that kind of converstaion Lynch would have to start for two or three weeks while Siemian heals up. Then there would be something tangible compare. Right now it doesn't look like Siemian is going be out for extended period of time.

Thanks, I meant to point that out.

[TXBRONC]

Then I pray God there's something to that whole "running out of shotgun's no problem." Because it seemed like nearly every time Lynch was under center today we ran, and every time he was in shotgun we threw. Can't be sure without rewatching the game, but in 7 days Dan Quinn will surely let us know either way. ;)

He had plenty pass plays where he started from under center. Maybe you can find some highlight clips that will show that did happen.

[TXBRONC]

Apparently according to the Broncos fan club on FB there were some Bronco fans celebrating Siemien's injury. I dont get it and frankly am really disappointed in that whoever they were. I think long term Denver will be in good shape with Lynch because the kid came in and clicked with the team. But Siemien seems to have the same amount of respect from his teammates and has performed well enough to remain the starter for the time being. Its really kind of shocking to me that some fans are this divided on these guys.

I sure wasn't and I don't understand why people cheer for any player to get hurt. I think Lynch is going to be the starter eventually but Siemian done anything anything that should have people wanting him to be replaced. In fact, FIA showed just how much Siemian has grown from week to week.

[Tned]

The only game that I've been able to watch the Broncos was the 1st, & then track how we are doing through stats. Yes, I know stats don't tell you everything, especially when sampling size for Siemian is 9½ quarters to Lynch’s 2½, but it’s all I have to go on for the last 3 games.

Siemian: http://www.nfl.com/player/trevorsiemian/2553457/gamelogs

1) In his 1st game, he looked like someone starting his 1st game. Not bad, but still in needed of a lot of improvement.

2) In his 1st 2 games, he had 1 TD to 3 INTs. Since then, he's had 5 TDs to 0 INTs.

3) While his completion percentage for each game has been 69.2% - 68.7% - 65.7% - 71.4%; his yards per attempt have been 6.8 - 8.1 - 8.9 - 9.7. So while his completion percentage declined over the 1st 3 games before shooting up to his best in the 4th, His yards per attempt has gone up every game. In my opinion, yards per attempt trumps completion percentage.

4) The number of sacks taken during the 1st 3 games doesn't seem that bad in relationship to the number of passing attempts, but what in the world happened today? Is the Bucs pass rush that good, or did something go horribly wrong on our end?

Lynch: http://www.nfl.com/player/paxtonlynch/2555316/gamelogs

1) His 1 TD & 0 INT was better than Siemian’s 1st 2 games combined, but inferior to his game 3 performance. Siemian’s 1 TD in 1½ quarters was better than Lynch getting 1 TD in 2½ quarters.

2) After Siemian led the Broncos to 2 TD drives in 1½ quarters, Lynch led us to 2 FGs & a TD in 2½ quarters.

3) His 58.3% completions were lower than Siemian’s lowest game

4) His 7.1 yards per attempt was lower than all Siemian’s but 1st game.

5) After Siemian got sacked 3 times in just 1½ quarters, Lynch only got sack 1 time in 2½.


Conclusions

The best selling point for Lynch does not show up in most of the stats, better physical tools. This is something we knew the day he was drafted. The only stat that reflexes that fact is the drastic reduction in sacks taken after he came in.

The best selling points for Siemian is that he’s had more time to learn the system which has given him more time to develop his mental tools. As Manning proved during his 4 seasons here, mental tools can trump physical tools. It certainly doesn’t happen every time, but it does happen often enough that you shouldn’t assume that youth with always trump knowledge and vis-a-versa.

The other thing I can see is Siemian getting statically better week after week. Once again, I know, stats don’t tell the full story. Those of you who have seen him in all 4 games can tell me about intangible improvements that he is or is not making that don’t show up in the stat lines. Nevertheless, everything that I’ve heard suggests to me that he is improving. This is why I believe that he is the best choice moving forward.

I don't think the stats fully tell the story, but that said, you did point out what we could see watching the games, which is that Siemian starting pushing the ball farther down the field.

Now, conventional fan wisdom is that Siemian is a dink and dunker and can't throw the ball deep, but the experts and Denver coaches say that it was a factor of the teams they were playing. The Panthers have a very good front seven, so they had to get rid of the ball quickly. The Colts were protecting against the deep ball, playing safeties deep and such, and whenever a WR got past the CBs, they tackled them and got a PI. That impacts the stats, since as Kubiak pointed out, without the PI's, Siemian would have been over 300 yards in the Colts game.

Cincy stacked the box to stop the run, which they succeeded in, so the Broncos went deep more often. So, as Kubiak has stated, the opponents defense has dictated what the Broncos called and where the ball has been thrown.

In Tampa, based on what the announcers said and what I heard pre and post game is that while the Bucs aren't good, the one place they are pretty good is their secondary. I want to watch some of the game in the all 22/coaches film mode, but I suspect on those sacks that the receivers were all covered, combined with a quickly collapsing pocket and he didn't have time to throw it away, or didn't recognize how quickly the pocket was collapsing.

No question that Lynch's speed and strength helped him with the protection so bad, and based on the way he held the ball on runs to the sideline and then threw it away, I'm again guessing all receivers were covered down field on many of those broken plays.

The other factor with Siemian is a very fast release and very good mechanics (footwork and throwing motion) and a beautifully thrown and placed ball. He doesn't play like a guy with only three starts.

We look at it through our fan eyes and desire to have our shiny new tool, which we hope can be our next John Elway and be the Broncos QB for the next decade. If Siemian was a second round pick and picked as our QBOTF and we didn't have a 1st round pick on the bench, fans would be very excited about Siemian, because it's impossible to actually watch the games and put his performance in the context of a players first three career starts and not be impressed and excited.

[Tned]

An addendum to add is that Lynch was coming off the bench just a little better than halfway through the game. So all of Siemian's based off of him being the starter for four games, three of which were full games. A 58.3% completion percentage coming in just 2 1/2 quarters of play is pretty good considering the circumstances. Also Lynch threw for almost as many yards in 2 1/2 quarters as Siemian did for his entire first start ( 170 for Lynch and 178 for Siemian).

That being said, I don't see how there can be a conversation to name Lynch the full time starter right now. For there to be that kind of converstaion Lynch would have to start for two or three weeks while Siemian heals up. Then there would be something tangible compare. Right now it doesn't look like Siemian is going be out for extended period of time.

Good or bad, Lynch clearly showed more of a Cutler/Favre gun slinger mentality. Willing to throw it deep, even into double coverage. When the goal is to avoid turnovers and manage the game to your strength, the defense, it might or might not be good to make the risky throws. The good news, is that when you throw the 50 yard bomb into double coverage, if it does get picked, it's like a punt, vs getting picked at the line of scrimmage (two of Siemian's picks) which puts your defense into a bad spot.

He's able to throw a bullet on the run. He showed off the cannon arm and the mobility, both of which were impressive. Some of his throws were very accurate and some not at all so. Overall, impressive and a glimpse of what could be.

[TXBRONC]

Good or bad, Lynch clearly showed more of a Cutler/Favre gun slinger mentality. Willing to throw it deep, even into double coverage. When the goal is to avoid turnovers and manage the game to your strength, the defense, it might or might not be good to make the risky throws. The good news, is that when you throw the 50 yard bomb into double coverage, if it does get picked, it's like a punt, vs getting picked at the line of scrimmage (two of Siemian's picks) which puts your defense into a bad spot.

He's able to throw a bullet on the run. He showed off the cannon arm and the mobility, both of which were impressive. Some of his throws were very accurate and some not at all so. Overall, impressive and a glimpse of what could be.

Honestly, that's not exactly see a gunslinger mentality. I don't recall Lynch making bad throwing decisions. If he remains the stater he will make mistakes that's a given. I'll be rewatching the game so I will look for that specifically.

As I said in my intial post when Siemian returns he should be the starting quarterback. Props to FIA for documenting for us Siemian's appreciable growth as quarterback he has shown over the first month season.

I think Lynch is eventually going to be the starter but Siemian hasn't done anything to be replaced. If Lynch has to start in Siemain's place for three or four games and he shows the same kind growth then that's a viable conservation. Right now it looks like Siemian isn't going to be out for extended period of time and hopefully he'll be able to start next Sunday.

One other thing, the offensive line need to do a better job than they did in the first half against the Buccaneers.

[Northman]

He did throw into double coverage late as it was even commented on by the commentators. But, for the most part he was on point and performed well under the circumstances.

[Slick]

Far be it from me to question anyone's fanhood but cheering for Siemian to get injured or cheering his injury is just ridiculously stupid. I hope you laid into those losers North.

[Northman]

Far be it from me to question anyone's fanhood but cheering for Siemian to get injured or cheering his injury is just ridiculously stupid. I hope you laid into those losers North.

I personally didnt see the people's comments but read it through another guy on there. If i had seen it i would of gave them the business.

[weazel]

Siemien should start... I think he gives them a better chance at winning. I know it's limited but from what I seen yesterday, Lynch has better mobility but Siemien has better pass accuracy.

[BroncoJoe]

He had plenty pass plays where he started from under center. Maybe you can find some highlight clips that will show that did happen.

He had several pass plays from under center. Hell, his TD pass was from under center.

Maybe Joel needs to "rewatch" the game. Or, watch it for the first time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6cB2h5wUx4

I counted 11 times he threw from under center.

[Tned]

He did throw into double coverage late as it was even commented on by the commentators. But, for the most part he was on point and performed well under the circumstances.

Agreed on both points. Hard not to get excited by the performance.

[Tned]

Far be it from me to question anyone's fanhood but cheering for Siemian to get injured or cheering his injury is just ridiculously stupid. I hope you laid into those losers North.

It's the Madden mentality that is so entrenched in people. For instance, willing to sacrifice a chance at back to back SB appearances/wins, in order to take our lumps to secure the position for the future. Some people really enjoy the games and live and die with every win and loss. Some people take nearly as much pleasure, or more, in the process -- the draft, developing players, a real life franchise mode, if you will.

The NFL has done an amazing job of making the preseason, free agency, draft, etc. as exciting as the season.

[Traveler]

Lynch! My main reason being I want to maximize the time we have him on his first QB contract. Many might disagree, but I'm not looking for a repeat SB win this year. Who's to say we can't keep coasting along as we are now, even with Lynch under center? With Rivers and Smith on the downside of their careers, I want to remain even with the Raiders by moving forward with our own franchise QB.

[Northman]

Lynch! My main reason being I want to maximize the time we have him on his first QB contract. Many might disagree, but I'm not looking for a repeat SB win this year. Who's to say we can't keep coasting along as we are now, even with Lynch under center? With Rivers and Smith on the downside of their careers, I want to remain even with the Raiders by moving forward with our own franchise QB.


If Denver was 0-4 i would say go for it but since we are still winning we have a shot to get back to the SB regardless. If both QB's are playing at the same level there is no need to rush Lynch in at this point and allow him to continue to observe and learn throughout the season.

[slim]

but there is also no question that he was far less accurate throwing from the pocket and on the move than Siemian has been this year.


Negative, speed racer.

What are you talking about?

[Tned]

Lynch! My main reason being I want to maximize the time we have him on his first QB contract. Many might disagree, but I'm not looking for a repeat SB win this year. Who's to say we can't keep coasting along as we are now, even with Lynch under center? With Rivers and Smith on the downside of their careers, I want to remain even with the Raiders by moving forward with our own franchise QB.

I'm sorry, I tried to read your post, but all I got was "blah, blah, blah, blah......." and my brain saying, "holy shit, look at this avatar..."

[TXBRONC]

If Denver was 0-4 i would say go for it but since we are still winning we have a shot to get back to the SB regardless. If both QB's are playing at the same level there is no need to rush Lynch in at this point and allow him to continue to observe and learn throughout the season.

As I said, I don't see how a conversation can be had to keep Lynch as starter at this point. If Siemian can't get on the field for three or four weeks and in that time period Lynch progressed along the same line that Siemian has over the first three weeks then I think we could legitimately have that conversation. However, atm it doesn't look like Siemian will be sidelined for very long. He may even start this next depending on how the evaluations go.

[Tned]

Negative, speed racer.

What are you talking about?

He had some good passes, but also missed badly on quite a few. Even some of the ones he hit, he put the receivers in harms way. It was a very good outing being thrown to the fire, but he was also less accurate.

[Dapper Dan]

Tebow.

[NightTerror218]

Siemian, he has earned it. But lynch played very well coming in. If siemian play starts to slip lynch could be put in quickly.

[I Eat Staples]

Apparently according to the Broncos fan club on FB there were some Bronco fans celebrating Siemien's injury. I dont get it and frankly am really disappointed in that whoever they were. I think long term Denver will be in good shape with Lynch because the kid came in and clicked with the team. But Siemien seems to have the same amount of respect from his teammates and has performed well enough to remain the starter for the time being. Its really kind of shocking to me that some fans are this divided on these guys.

Cheering injury is just the lowest thing you can possibly do as a fan. It's already sickening when people cheer for their opponents' injuries, and even worse when it's their own team.

I wanted to see Lynch at some point this season, but not like that.

[TXBRONC]

Tebow.

:tsk:

[DenBronx]

Negative, speed racer.

What are you talking about?

He had some good passes, but also missed badly on quite a few. Even some of the ones he hit, he put the receivers in harms way. It was a very good outing being thrown to the fire, but he was also less accurate.


Lynch seemed to overthrow his WRs more while Siemian underthrows. Overthrowing is at least a safer option which is why Siemian throws picks sometimes.

[TXBRONC]

Lynch seemed to overthrow his WRs more while Siemian underthrows. Overthrowing is at least a safer option which is why Siemian throws picks sometimes.

It doesn't matter which one of them is under center, they will both throw picks a lot which comes from them being young inexperienced.

[Mike]

Hard to tell. Defenses typically don't adjust well when a new QB enters the game and the TB defense (and team as a whole) looked like they gave up fighting in the 2nd half. But I was impressed with Lynch, I still think he needs more time before starting. Just a feeling that I have. But it was nice to see his raw ability yesterday and think he will likely be the starter next year.

I would stick with Siemian for now though.

[DenBronx]

Lynch seemed to overthrow his WRs more while Siemian underthrows. Overthrowing is at least a safer option which is why Siemian throws picks sometimes.

It doesn't matter which one of them is under center, they will both throw picks a lot which comes from them being young inexperienced.

I don't think Siemian is throwing "alot" of picks. Even the best QBs will throw INTs and we haven't seen that from Lynch in the regular season.

[BroncoWave]

Dak Prescott doesn't throw picks. :)

[Tned]

Lynch seemed to overthrow his WRs more while Siemian underthrows. Overthrowing is at least a safer option which is why Siemian throws picks sometimes.

While I agree in theory, I find it interesting in the comparison, considering none of Siemians picks came on under throws. :confused:

[BroncoWave]

While I agree in theory, I find it interesting in the comparison, considering none of Siemians picks came on under throws. :confused:

One of them against Carolina did. It was the pass where he was getting rushed up the middle and kinda threw up a duck that fell about a yard short of the WR.

[Tned]

Dak Prescott doesn't throw picks. :)

Yea, I heard he went to a McDaniels QB camp in the offseason.

[slim]

He had some good passes, but also missed badly on quite a few. Even some of the ones he hit, he put the receivers in harms way. It was a very good outing being thrown to the fire, but he was also less accurate.

Siemian has missed badly on quite a few throws as well. :noidea:

[DenBronx]

Lynch seemed to overthrow his WRs more while Siemian underthrows. Overthrowing is at least a safer option which is why Siemian throws picks sometimes.

While I agree in theory, I find it interesting in the comparison, considering none of Siemians picks came on under throws. :confused:


Double covergages and tipped passes. He had a couple nearly picked on underthrows though tned.

[Davii]

If they're both healthy I believe Siemean gets the nod. Manning lost his job to injury on the heels of the worst day of his career. That's not the case here.

Now, that being said... I feel it's VERY possible this injury to Siemean will make it Lynch's job. If what we're hearing is correct, AC joint sprain, I think it's likely he sits this week against Atlanta. If he sits this week against Atlanta I doubt he'll play 4 days later on Thursday night in San Diego. With two games under his belt and 11 days to get ready for a third the coaches just might, at that time, be ready to pull the trigger.

So, if healthy this week I think Trevor starts. If he's not, I think there's a decent chance it will be Lynch's job.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Double covergages and tipped passes. He had a couple nearly picked on underthrows though tned.

There's a lot of conjecture when debating accuracy between the two qb's. I'm persuaded completion percentage is a good indicator of who is more accurate at the present time.

[BroncoWave]

It's his non throwing shoulder and kubes just said this morning he expects him to play this week.

[BroncoWave]

There's a lot of conjecture when debating accuracy between the two qb's. I'm persuaded completion percentage is a good indicator of who is more accurate at the present time.

I think the sample size is way too small right now to draw that conclusion.

[slim]

It's his non throwing shoulder and kubes just said this morning he expects him to play this week.

It would be silly for them to sit him if he is healthy. I'm not sure why folks are even debating it.

[Cugel]

Frankly, if the Broncos were not 4-0 and defending SB champions you could see them sticking with Lynch because he's the future prospect and Siemian just isn't. And if Lynch starts the next 2 or 3 games and plays well and the Broncos win, well, they might just stick with him on that basis.

But, it's a lot easier to justify putting Siemian back in there. This is not a situation where you have Peyton Manning on the bench, you've got a rookie who has started zero NFL games so far and played reasonably well in 1/2 of one game.

OK, nice. I like what I've seen from Lynch.

But, we all know that QBs struggle from time to time, especially rookies. And when Trevor struggles, they have Lynch to go to. But, if they start Lynch, then going back to Siemian is creating QB controversy. If there's really not much difference in performance between the two, then the Broncos will start Lynch since he's the presumed franchise QB with the greater potential.

It's much better if they leave Siemian out there and see if he can win, while further developing Lynch.

I would say that the chances of Siemian being the starter next season took a nose-dive.

And we have to accept it just might be that he's about to get "Wally Pip-ed" (Wally Pip sat out a game and let Lou Gehrig start for the Yankees). If there's little difference between the two, then they could just decide to start Lynch because he's the presumed future franchise QB.

[TXBRONC]

It would be silly for them to sit him if he is healthy. I'm not sure why folks are even debating it.

After Siemain got hurt and then returned to the sideline still in pads that was a good sign that they were really worried about shoulder. If they were he would have been out of his pads and his arm immobilized.

[underrated29]

If they're both healthy I believe Siemean gets the nod. Manning lost his job to injury on the heels of the worst day of his career. That's not the case here.

Now, that being said... I feel it's VERY possible this injury to Siemean will make it Lynch's job. If what we're hearing is correct, AC joint sprain, I think it's likely he sits this week against Atlanta. If he sits this week against Atlanta I doubt he'll play 4 days later on Thursday night in San Diego. With two games under his belt and 11 days to get ready for a third the coaches just might, at that time, be ready to pull the trigger.

So, if healthy this week I think Trevor starts. If he's not, I think there's a decent chance it will be Lynch's job.



Just for clarification, that was the worst day of his career, getting benched for his backup. However, it was not his worst game of his career. That is probably when he played the chargers and threw 6 interceptions in one game....In his prime

[TXBRONC]

Just for clarification, that was the worst day of his career, getting benched for his backup. However, it was not his worst game of his career. That is probably when he played the chargers and threw 6 interceptions in one game....In his prime

I think that's hair splitting. He got benched that imo would be far worse than throwing six picks because he spent next eight weeks on the side lines.

[BroncoJoe]

Which ever QB Kubiak thinks gets the job done.

[slim]

Which ever QB Kubiak thinks gets the job done.

Austin Davis?

[Tned]

Double covergages and tipped passes. He had a couple nearly picked on underthrows though tned.

I could have missed something or blinked out, but I believe Siemian had three INTs.

1. Tipped ball at line of scrimmage popped up and then an LB got it.
2. Throwing to the right sideline for Sanders while being hit, and therefore having the ball kind of pop up, and even with that defender had to make a leaping falling back grab and just got it. It wasn't an underthrow, it was an ill advised throw while being hit.
3. Attempted a WR screen and threw it right into a DB that came up, who he apparently thought was going to drop back into coverage.

On the nearly picked, I would have to go back and look, most of his near picks were mis reading an LB and throwing it right into the defenders bread basked and being lucky that it was dropped.

You're reaching really hard to make your point about Siemian's "under throws" being more dangerous than Lynch's "over throws."

[Tned]

If they're both healthy I believe Siemean gets the nod. Manning lost his job to injury on the heels of the worst day of his career. That's not the case here.

Now, that being said... I feel it's VERY possible this injury to Siemean will make it Lynch's job. If what we're hearing is correct, AC joint sprain, I think it's likely he sits this week against Atlanta. If he sits this week against Atlanta I doubt he'll play 4 days later on Thursday night in San Diego. With two games under his belt and 11 days to get ready for a third the coaches just might, at that time, be ready to pull the trigger.

So, if healthy this week I think Trevor starts. If he's not, I think there's a decent chance it will be Lynch's job.

Agreed. At lunch I was talking to a friend about this. While based on what both of them have done so far, if Siemian is healthy on Sunday, I think he is the clear choice, if on the other hand Lynch gets to play Sunday (and good point about the SD game being a Thu game), Lynch has the opportunity to win the job with his play.

Lynch's arm strength, mobility, etc. makes him intriguing, he just clearly isn't quite as polished and NFL ready yet. Give him a few games, and that can change.

[Tned]

One of them against Carolina did. It was the pass where he was getting rushed up the middle and kinda threw up a duck that fell about a yard short of the WR.

You just can't call that an underthrow, since as you set it was a duck he threw while or right before being hit and still took a monumental play by the DB to get the pick vs. Sanders getting the first down. He should never have thrown the ball, it just wasn't an underthrow or we have to totally redefine what an underthrow means.

[Slick]

Kubes said he expects Trevor to start.

[underrated29]

I think that's hair splitting. He got benched that imo would be far worse than throwing six picks because he spent next eight weeks on the side lines.

Which is why I said to clarify that was his worst day, not his worst game. His worst day is getting benched after throwing 4 picks. That was not his worst game though. His worst game he threw 6 picks against the chargers and lost. Not splitting hairs, just clarifying and adding a little history.

[TXBRONC]

Which is why I said to clarify that was his worst day, not his worst game. His worst day is getting benched after throwing 4 picks. That was not his worst game though. His worst game he threw 6 picks against the chargers and lost. Not splitting hairs, just clarifying and adding a little history.

Yeah it's hair splitting. The worst day and worst game are one in samething.

[Tangerine]

Which is why I said to clarify that was his worst day, not his worst game. His worst day is getting benched after throwing 4 picks. That was not his worst game though. His worst game he threw 6 picks against the chargers and lost. Not splitting hairs, just clarifying and adding a little history.

Getting off subject here, but I would say the Chiefs game was the worst game of his career. Had he played the entire game he probably would've thrown 8 interceptions. He had absolutely no business playing in that game, and it could've cost us home field advantage, the division, and even the Super Bowl.

Chiefs 2015: 5 of 20 (25%), 35 yards, 0 TD, 4 INT
Chargers 2007: 34 of 56 (61%), 328 yards, 2 TD, 6 INT. Still almost won the game (missed field goal lost it) even with the 6 picks

[Buff]

Mike Hawk laying it down strong as usual.

[underrated29]

I think that's hair splitting. He got benched that imo would be far worse than throwing six picks because he spent next eight weeks on the side lines.


Getting off subject here, but I would say the Chiefs game was the worst game of his career. Had he played the entire game he probably would've thrown 8 interceptions. He had absolutely no business playing in that game, and it could've cost us home field advantage, the division, and even the Super Bowl.

Chiefs 2015: 5 of 20 (25%), 35 yards, 0 TD, 4 INT
Chargers 2007: 34 of 56 (61%), 328 yards, 2 TD, 6 INT. Still almost won the game (missed field goal lost it) even with the 6 picks



Now we are splitting hairs. Looking at that stat line though, I think you may be right. Bringing those big stats to the table. I like mike big stats hawk. Mike big Hawk is shorter and more simpler.

[Tned]

Cecil, who is as big a Lynch fan as they come:
Cecil Lammey (@CecilLammey) tweeted at 10:49 AM on Mon, Oct 03, 2016:
Paxton Lynch did have 6th-highest off-target percentage in Week 4 - 21.7 % of his passes considered over/underthrown #Broncos @1043TheFan

[TXBRONC]

Cecil, who is as big a Lynch fan as they come:
Cecil Lammey (@CecilLammey) tweeted at 10:49 AM on Mon, Oct 03, 2016:
Paxton Lynch did have 6th-highest off-target percentage in Week 4 - 21.7 % of his passes considered over/underthrown #Broncos @1043TheFan

How much weight should be put on that stat balanced against the situation and the fact he led the offense on three scoring drives?

At any rate it looks like the Broncos has dodged the proverbial bullet. If I have heard correctly Siemian's injury shouldn't keep him from starting against the Falcons.

[Tned]

How much weight should be put on that stat balanced against the situation and the fact he led the offense on three scoring drives?

At any rate it looks like the Broncos has dodged the proverbial bullet. If I have heard correctly Siemian's injury shouldn't keep him from starting against the Falcons.

No weight beyond it confirms what my eyes told me, which is that he was not very accurate overall. Understandable, but still not very accurate.

[DenBronx]

Double covergages and tipped passes. He had a couple nearly picked on underthrows though tned.

You're reaching really hard to make your point about Siemian's "under throws" being more dangerous than Lynch's "over throws."


It's nothing more than a simple discussion man. I am on record giving Trevor nothing but praise and he has done nothing to lose his job. Unless I am seeing things it seems like he could have even more INTs based on what I have seen in a little over 3 games. Not just underthrows but back shoulder passes and other little things. All it is, is a timing issue and Trevor seems to only be getting better. It's not a big deal to me and I don't believe I am reaching on anything or arguments. Siemian was playing good before he got hurt.

If Paxton played from the get go I am sure he would also have some INTs. One thing I don't think anyone can argue against is that Paxton is more athletic and has a bigger arm.

Like I said, I am glad the coaches make the decisions.

[OrangeHoof]

Let's keep building up Siemian's trade value. If someone thinks a Broncos backup is worth $17 Million, imagine what some GM might see as Siemian's trade value next year? A first and a third? Do I hear two firsts?

[TXBRONC]

No weight beyond it confirms what my eyes told me, which is that he was not very accurate overall. Understandable, but still not very accurate.

His completion percentage was 58.3%. That really not that bad imo. That's being off pace of 60% by what a couple of completions? He played well, but Seimian is still the starter and rightfully so.

[Tned]

His completion percentage was 58.3%. That really not that bad imo. That's being off pace of 60% by what a couple of completions? He played well, but Seimian is still the starter and rightfully so.

Good point, it was only something like 28 quarterbacks that were more accurate than him this week. Bottom 20th percentile isn't bad.

[TXBRONC]

Good point, it was only something like 28 quarterbacks that were more accurate than him this week. Bottom 20th percentile isn't bad.

Come on Tned take it easy there is no need for the sacasm.

[tripp]

Siemian has paid his dues throughout pre-season and has shown Kubiak he can run this offense. We forget the guy just threw 4 TD's 2 Sunday's ago. While Lynch looked serviceable for a second half, it also helped that he was in the lead. I don't know how well a rookie QB will respond when he's down a score or two, we know how Siemian responds. I have a feeling Atlanta will post some points on us, it will come down to how we respond. I'd much rather a QB who has more experience with our playbook, and real NFL game time, than a rookie QB who looked good for 2 quarters of a game with the lead.

Let's use yesterday's game as a good reassurance that Lynch can come in and do a decent enough job if Siemian is injured.

Also, let's not piss off one of our QB's this early in the season, I know we sort of like doing that (Oswhiner).

[TXBRONC]

Siemian has paid his dues throughout pre-season and has shown Kubiak he can run this offense. We forget the guy just threw 4 TD's 2 Sunday's ago. While Lynch looked serviceable for a second half, it also helped that he was in the lead. I don't know how well a rookie QB will respond when he's down a score or two, we know how Siemian responds. I have a feeling Atlanta will post some points on us, it will come down to how we respond. I'd much rather a QB who has more experience with our playbook, and real NFL game time, than a rookie QB who looked good for 2 quarters of a game with the lead.

Let's use yesterday's game as a good reassurance that Lynch can come in and do a decent enough job if Siemian is injured.

Also, let's not piss off one of our QB's this early in the season, I know we sort of like doing that (Oswhiner).

I don't think the majority of people have forgotten who has quarterbacked this for most of first quarter of the season. Most importantly the head coach hasn't forgotten

There is big difference between being the starting quarterback when team is behind and coming off the bench when the team is behind.

[Tned]

Come on Tned take it easy there is no need for the sacasm.

Lammey is the biggest Lynch lover on the planet and can't stand that Siemian is starting. So, it's not like he's making up stats to make Lynch look bad. Lynch was impressive coming in for an injured starter as his first playing time as a rookie, but Lammey's stats backup what anyone watching it that is being honest knows, which is that he wasn't very accurate. He was one of the least accurate passers to take the field on Sunday. Out of the 34 or 35 QBs that played on Sunday, only five were less accurate than Lynch. That isn't good by any margin.

Another interesting thing from Lammey. Here is (top) Siemian's passing chart against Cincy and then below it, Lynch's passing chart against Tampa.

You will see that while Lynch went deep a lot, he only completed one pass, and was 1 for 7 over 15 yards (3 for 10 if you say 15 yards or more) where Siemian only threw four non-PI balls over 15 yards, but was 4 for 4 on those passes.

So, the point isn't that being inaccurate this past Sunday means Lynch has no future in the NFL, but those that were blind to the inaccuracy, even if understandable having been thrown into the fire, are simply letting fan excitement override what their eyes saw.

http://www.broncosforums.com/downloads/siemian_wk3.JPG (https://twitter.com/CecilLammey?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp %7Ctwgr%5Eauthor)

http://www.broncosforums.com/downloads/lynch_week4.JPG (https://twitter.com/CecilLammey/status/782974086183923712)

[NightTerror218]

I have to add my 2 cents.

Siemian threw 4 TDs, some of those TDs were amazing catches by the WR on decent passes underthrown...
.i am talking about the big bomb TDs. Going into this game siemian was riding 1 TD to 4 ints. Siemian barely had thrown downfield prior to the cincy game and the game plan cincy had was 1 on 1 with WR and eliminate the run. With our WR that is a heaven situation. Great play calling for kubiak game.

On the flip side siemian has had awesome poise in progressions and great on the short to intermidiate throwns. He does get caught by LB lurking underneath who jump routes. He had nice command of the huddle.

Siemian is no pro bowl QB but he is doing great in this offense. He beat out sanchez and earned the start. As long as healthy he will start.

[OrangeHoof]

I think the difference is that Siemian was throwing the ball more often inside the five-yard zone (i.e.five yards +- the LOS). That's going to create a much higher completion percentage (or should). Most of Lynch's throws were in the 5-15 yard area which would mean a lower completion percentage.

I don't see completion percentage as a valid talking point here because they weren't making he same types of throws. Nonetheless, I think Siemian should be starting due to his performance up until now. If someone wants to cheat up on the receivers, Siemian has shown the ability to beat them deep.

[TXBRONC]

I think the difference is that Siemian was throwing the ball more often inside the five-yard zone (i.e.five yards +- the LOS). That's going to create a much higher completion percentage (or should). Most of Lynch's throws were in the 5-15 yard area which would mean a lower completion percentage.

I don't see completion percentage as a valid talking point here because they weren't making he same types of throws. Nonetheless, I think Siemian should be starting due to his performance up until now. If someone wants to cheat up on the receivers, Siemian has shown the ability to beat them deep.

According to Kubiak Siemian will start on Sunday.

[Tned]

I think the difference is that Siemian was throwing the ball more often inside the five-yard zone (i.e.five yards +- the LOS). That's going to create a much higher completion percentage (or should). Most of Lynch's throws were in the 5-15 yard area which would mean a lower completion percentage.

I don't see completion percentage as a valid talking point here because they weren't making he same types of throws. Nonetheless, I think Siemian should be starting due to his performance up until now. If someone wants to cheat up on the receivers, Siemian has shown the ability to beat them deep.

Not sure why you and TX have started talking about completion percentage. It's about accuracy. As Lammey showed, Lynch was one of the most inaccurate passers on Sunday. It had nothing to do with percentage (which is impacted by drops and other factors) but balls that were under/overthrown and not catchable -- aka, bad throws.

By comparison, Mason tweeted out that from weeks 2-4, the the top three passers (all with ratings over 110) were Matt Ryan, Dak Prescott and Trevor Siemian.

As the coach has said, they call plays based on what the defense gives them. He pointed out regarding the Colts that they dropped guys into coverage, trying to prevent anyone from getting behind them. Kubiak said that while Siemian had something like 270 yards passing, he would have easily been over 300 but for the fact PI's that occurred when receivers had a step on defenders and were mauled preventing them from getting to the pass.

Another tidbit I saw earlier is that Siemian has a higher avg per pass completion, while having less YAC, then Wentz or Prescott (not to mention a whole lot of veteran QBs).

[Tned]

Now, while his deep ball accuracy was pretty bad and he nearly had one picked at the goal line, I do think that Lynch taking the deep shots, even if he missed all of them pretty badly, made the defense back up and opened up the run game.

I think Kubiak needs to call more deep plays, more often, to keep the defense honest, especially with how badly the run game has been the last couple games.

[Simple Jaded]

I don't know (or care) what Lammey is getting at with his posts but he spent the entire day meticulously grooming Lynch's short and curlies, Evans had to drag an iota of criticism from Lammey when he said he had a few problems with ball placement.

Oh well, wouldn't be the first time Lammey has contradicted himself in a matter of minutes, apparently later on he consulted Lance Zeirlein on what his opinion should be.......again.

[iLands]

Until Lynch makes my sig, he's a nobody.

[Cugel]

How much weight should be put on that stat balanced against the situation and the fact he led the offense on three scoring drives?

At any rate it looks like the Broncos has dodged the proverbial bullet. If I have heard correctly Siemian's injury shouldn't keep him from starting against the Falcons.

It makes more sense to start Siemian if that's true. When they go to Lynch, they don't ever want to go back. They have to be sure he's ready. And right now, he's probably not ready.

Of course, we don't know how Siemian will do after opposing coaches have more tape on him. Normally, it takes 4 games to get sufficient tape on a player to start really charting tendencies. And then defenses start to become more effective shutting him down.

So, we'll see. But, I'd be happier if they start Siemian and it looks like it might happen. We'll get Lynch down the line, and if Siemian fails, he's always available. But, they're handling this the right way.

[Cugel]

Until Lynch makes my sig, he's a nobody.

That's pretty funny! How many starts does he need to get that sig?

[Joel]

I think the difference is that Siemian was throwing the ball more often inside the five-yard zone (i.e.five yards +- the LOS). That's going to create a much higher completion percentage (or should). Most of Lynch's throws were in the 5-15 yard area which would mean a lower completion percentage.
Definitely. Those 1940s QBs I catch hell for talking about averaged pretty much the EXACT SAME yds/att as our modern sharp shooters: The difference is their completion percentage was garbage, but those they DID complete went for ridiculously high yardage. I haven't checked, but Lynch and Siemians net yds/att (including sacks) might be similarly close despite their very different completion percentages and yds/completion.


I don't see completion percentage as a valid talking point here because they weren't making he same types of throws. Nonetheless, I think Siemian should be starting due to his performance up until now. If someone wants to cheat up on the receivers, Siemian has shown the ability to beat them deep.
Agreed on all points—except the last. Assuming we beat the jams, we've got the WRs to blow by DBs who try to play them up on the line, yes. But we'd be FAR better off using the run game to draw DBs and coverage LBs up to the line, so defenses are forced to choose, not between covering our WRs short vs. deep, but stuffing our RBs vs. covering our WRs AT ALL. People talk about "11-on-11" all the time; substituting short passes for running is the exact opposite of that.

So far that's pretty much what Kubiak's done: Nickel and dimed the Panthers and Colts with the run until the Bengals felt they HAD to stack the box, so Siemian got to torch them for 4 TDs (including the 50 yd bomb to their goal line at the end, so DT needed maybe three steps to reach the end zone.)

[FanInAZ]

I think the difference is that Siemian was throwing the ball more often inside the five-yard zone (i.e.five yards +- the LOS). That's going to create a much higher completion percentage (or should). Most of Lynch's throws were in the 5-15 yard area which would mean a lower completion percentage.

I don't see completion percentage as a valid talking point here because they weren't making he same types of throws. Nonetheless, I think Siemian should be starting due to his performance up until now. If someone wants to cheat up on the receivers, Siemian has shown the ability to beat them deep.


http://www.broncosforums.com/downloads/siemian_wk3.JPG (https://twitter.com/CecilLammey?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp %7Ctwgr%5Eauthor)

http://www.broncosforums.com/downloads/lynch_week4.JPG (https://twitter.com/CecilLammey/status/782974086183923712)

According to these chart, Siemian was 4 for 4 and 2 TD when throwing beyond 15 yards 2 weeks ago, Lynch was only 1 for 7 this past week. Siemian got 3 more completions and 2 TDs on 3 fewer attempts.

From the LOS to 5 yards out, Siemian was 6 for 13 and 1 TD. So you can’t say that the main reason for his 65.7% completion is mainly because of how often he threw in a range in which he only completed 46.2% of his passes.

As far as the 5 to 15 yard range, Siemian was 11 for 18 and 1 TD; Lynch was 9 for 12 and 1 TD. Lynch’s 75% completions was much better then Siemian’s 61.1%. However Siemian’s 100% completions over 15 yards to Lynch’s 14.3% makes Siemian a superior deep ball thrower in my eyes.

Of course I don’t really need to point out all of the problems with comparing a QB playing his 3rd complete game against 1 D to a QB who came in the middle of his 1st game against a completely different D.

[Tned]

Of course I don’t really need to point out all of the problems with comparing a QB playing his 3rd complete game against 1 D to a QB who came in the middle of his 1st game against a completely different D.

Yea, it would almost be as bad as making career determinations/comparisons about a QB after his first or second start ever in the NFL. It's simply impossible, right?

[FanInAZ]

Yea, it would almost be as bad as making career determinations/comparisons about a QB after his first or second start ever in the NFL. It's simply impossible, right?

I've been telling fans to stop jumping the gun on making such assessments since they wanted to run Cutler out of town after his 1st game didn't go all that well.

Oh, wait... :D

[Dean]

I think Andrew Mason is the voice of the organization. Here is what he has to say.

http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Five-things-you-should-know-from-the-Broncos-Monday-Numbers-tell-why-Trevor-Siemian-is-the-starter/32455129-9ef4-404b-96ef-dfe3fa7eec54

[iLands]

People forget or misremember over and over again that Trevor has prototypical quarterback measurables.


It makes sense because they compare him to Lynch, but it isn't like Trevor is some tiny guy.

Keep in mind that we don't yet know if Lynch's size is actually an advantage. Believe it or not, the most successful quarterback of all time that was that size is the gentle giant down in Houston.

Trevor has what is apparently an amazing mind as well. The knock on Lynch coming out was his mind - his coaches at Memphis said he would need time, he had an abysmal wonderlic, and what kept him from winning the job outright was his inability to learn the playbook. In comparison, Kubiak has said Trevor has the best mind and coachability of any young QB he's ever worked with. He's apparently off the charts in terms of his mental development and you can see that excitement bleed through whenever Kubiak talks about it.

The short of this is the following: Lynch will probably be fine. He just needs more time and the sample size for extremely tall quarterbacks is too small to draw real conclusions. The Broncos are in a fantastic position. Trevor has already played well enough to flip at a profit and he's shown more than anybody expected except the people who know him best. He gives us the best chance to win and his stock is just rising. Imagine him playing his way into a first round pick.

Kubiak crushed the controversy immediately. Let's enjoy the wins and our two young quarterbacks.

[Tned]

People forget or misremember over and over again that Trevor has prototypical quarterback measurables.


It makes sense because they compare him to Lynch, but it isn't like Trevor is some tiny guy.

Keep in mind that we don't yet know if Lynch's size is actually an advantage. Believe it or not, the most successful quarterback of all time that was that size is the gentle giant down in Houston.

Trevor has what is apparently an amazing mind as well. The knock on Lynch coming out was his mind - his coaches at Memphis said he would need time, he had an abysmal wonderlic, and what kept him from winning the job outright was his inability to learn the playbook. In comparison, Kubiak has said Trevor has the best mind and coachability of any young QB he's ever worked with. He's apparently off the charts in terms of his mental development and you can see that excitement bleed through whenever Kubiak talks about it.

The short of this is the following: Lynch will probably be fine. He just needs more time and the sample size for extremely tall quarterbacks is too small to draw real conclusions. The Broncos are in a fantastic position. Trevor has already played well enough to flip at a profit and he's shown more than anybody expected except the people who know him best. He gives us the best chance to win and his stock is just rising. Imagine him playing his way into a first round pick.

Kubiak crushed the controversy immediately. Let's enjoy the wins and our two young quarterbacks.

Right now, the only real knock on Trevor, which is silly if you actually think about it, is that he's a seventh round pick. If he was a late first or second round pick playing like he is, and was "expected" to be a starter in the NFL, the narrative would be completely different.

[TXBRONC]

Right now, the only real knock on Trevor, which is silly if you actually think about it, is that he's a seventh round pick. If he was a late first or second round pick playing like he is, and was "expected" to be a starter in the NFL, the narrative would be completely different.

As long as there a first round pick at quarterback in the mix it's play a part in how things are preceived. :behindsofa:

[iLands]

Right now, the only real knock on Trevor, which is silly if you actually think about it, is that he's a seventh round pick. If he was a late first or second round pick playing like he is, and was "expected" to be a starter in the NFL, the narrative would be completely different.

The real thing I don't like is that 2 of his 3 picks were very similar. I don't know if we'll see another one of those from him again though - he's just gotten out of the pocket and thrown them away since that second game. Both were great plays by the defense, but those are on him. I didn't mind the Sanders pick at all. It also might be me, the team's we've faced, or something else but I feel like he's had a few more batted balls than one would expect. Oddly enough, Brock is still getting his swatted in Houston.

[NightTerror218]

Week 3 to week 4 comparisons for siemian and ltnch is the dumbeat argument i have ever seen. It is 1 pull game vs just over half a game. And 2 completely different secondaries playing defense against the offense differently. 1 was a 3rd start the other relief work.

Come on really? How can a real opinion be drawn on deep passes from that? Not even a big enough sample size to onow if cinci game was a fluke or sign of potential.

[FanInAZ]

Week 3 to week 4 comparisons for siemian and ltnch is the dumbeat argument i have ever seen. It is 1 pull game vs just over half a game. And 2 completely different secondaries playing defense against the offense differently. 1 was a 3rd start the other relief work.

Come on really? How can a real opinion be drawn on deep passes from that? Not even a big enough sample size to onow if cinci game was a fluke or sign of potential.

Thank you for highlighting all of the weakness that I already pointed out using the only methodology that is available to me. Should I've simply not posted anything when it was blatantly obvious that certain members were cherry picking stats in order to advance preconceived notions that they probably had before the start of training camp. If you understood what kind of Aspie I am, you’d know that I’m prone to challenging such misuse of statistical data by presenting a more balanced assessment.

[JPPT1974]

Keep Trevor S in. Let Paxton continue to grow. And that in 2017, Paxton will probably be ready to take on the reins under center IMHO!

[Joel]

keep trevor s in. Let paxton continue to grow. And that in 2017, paxton will probably be ready to take on the reins under center imho!
^^Why is this so hard to grasp?!^^

Seriously, folks, we have to rush Lynch out there ASAP to "maximize the value of his rookie contract" or whatever? I have a homers faith in Kubiaks QB coaching, but the odds are that even WITH that Lynch will be a bust, simply because that's more often than not the result when the top prospects are off the board and a team takes a talented but raw QB late in the first. We're not "losing" anything by giving him the developmental time critical to averting that.

I fully agree with the wisdom of 1974. But even if I didn't, it would be foolish to bench Siemian despite his careers unprecedented start until/unless he gives some CAUSE to believe someone else MIGHT do better. Especially based on that someones high draft status and up and down performance in a game we already led a bad team by a TD and our D allowed NO further scoring. Again, there's a long list of QBs who look good in that kind of situation, but Siemian's shown he can put the team down double digits in the second half or trailing on the road just before halftime.

IF we repeat, it'll be because of the kind of QB who can come back and win games we're losing, not the kind who merely PADS a lead while riding our D. Again, I like Lynch and think he's the long term solution simply because he has more of the inborn physical ability that can't be taught and our coaches CAN teach him all the things Siemian (currently) does better. But "long term" doesn't mean "by Halloween."

[standard boiler plate about wanting to 1) not kill the first round franchise QB killed behind our TBD line that gives him no run support, 2) have Lynch learn the playbook—or at least his teammates NAMES—before expected to run Kubiaks offense, and 3) not set him up to FAIL so we develop "frantic desperation" as the "NFL skills" that define his CAREER; how big a "waste" would THAT be...?]

[OrangeHoof]

Right now, the only real knock on Trevor, which is silly if you actually think about it, is that he's a seventh round pick. If he was a late first or second round pick playing like he is, and was "expected" to be a starter in the NFL, the narrative would be completely different.

I agree with this. You also have to assess Northwestern's level of competition vs. Memphis'.

But Lynch is not an idiot and he's got physical skills beyond Siemian's. He's still the QBOTF and only a fool would debate otherwise. The question is 'when do you make the change for good?' and my answer (and Kubiak's) is 'not now'. The team is doing fine under Siemian and there's no reason to change that until defenses learn Trevor's limitations and gameplan against them.

[Tned]

I agree with this. You also have to assess Northwestern's level of competition vs. Memphis'.

But Lynch is not an idiot and he's got physical skills beyond Siemian's. He's still the QBOTF and only a fool would debate otherwise. The question is 'when do you make the change for good?' and my answer (and Kubiak's) is 'not now'. The team is doing fine under Siemian and there's no reason to change that until defenses learn Trevor's limitations and gameplan against them.

I'm certainly considering Lynch the QBOTF, even though we all know that there is no guarantees. If you guys haven't done it, pull up a list of first round QBs for the last 15 years. It's shocking how many bad or journeyman QBs were first rounders and in many cases, early first round picks.

That said, while I still consider it highly unlikely, I'm not willing to completely discount the idea that Siemian could continue to get better and keep Lynch from ever taking the job. I think it's an unlikely scenario, but where three months ago I would have considered it a far-fetched fantasy, now it's moved into the "unlikely" realm for me.

[OrangeHoof]

Would the combined skills of Gary Kubiak and John Elway be so wrong as to move up to draft a QB in the first round that became a bust? Yes, injury or PTSD (see Carr, David) can ruin a career of a promising first-rounder but, I have to trust their assessment of QBs even more than any other position. Dallas was about to take him so we jumped in and got him. We weren't alone in that first-round grade.

[Tned]

Would the combined skills of Gary Kubiak and John Elway be so wrong as to move up to draft a QB in the first round that became a bust? Yes, injury or PTSD (see Carr, David) can ruin a career of a promising first-rounder but, I have to trust their assessment of QBs even more than any other position. Dallas was about to take him so we jumped in and got him. We weren't alone in that first-round grade.

I don't believe at draft time they truly believed that Siemian would compete for the starting job. I think they might have looked at him as competing for the backup job.

[Buff]

I don't believe at draft time they truly believed that Siemian would compete for the starting job. I think they might have looked at him as competing for the backup job.

I think that's selling them short. They kept him on the active roster all year on a Super Bowl winning roster - when they needed the depth elsewhere - so as not to expose him to another team via the Practice Squad. That signals to me that they thought he might have more than just a backup's ceiling. I think he has been their insurance policy all along, which is why they didn't get hasty in trying to acquire Bradford or Kaepernick or any of the other names that were thrown around. But it's possible I'm giving them too much credit and they got a little bit lucky with how things have played out.

[TXBRONC]

I don't believe at draft time they truly believed that Siemian would compete for the starting job. I think they might have looked at him as competing for the backup job.

Considering what happened over the offseason the trade for Sanchez and the attempt to trade for Kaepernick and the drafting of Lynch shows they weren't thinking he could be the starter.

[NightTrainLayne]

The truth is probably in the middle there somewhere.

They really liked Siemian. No question.

But it wasn't a stone cold lock. He still had a lot to prove. Certainly though all of that had to factor in to decisions all the way from not re-signing Brock, to bringin in Sanchez etc.

[Mike]

Considering what happened over the offseason the trade for Sanchez and the attempt to trade for Kaepernick and the drafting of Lynch shows they weren't thinking he could be the starter.

Or they weren't certain and were just preparing for the season. Probably why they gave Sanchez a contract that was easy to get out of if needed.

[NightTerror218]

Or they weren't certain and were just preparing for the season. Probably why they gave Sanchez a contract that was easy to get out of if needed.

They traded for sanchez but elway did include some outs to keep the draft pick.

I think they had an idea on siemian which is why they did not make bad moves to acquire a QB. They were not desperate in persue in my eyes they evaluated all options and let the cards fall into place.

[Tned]

I think that's selling them short. They kept him on the active roster all year on a Super Bowl winning roster - when they needed the depth elsewhere - so as not to expose him to another team via the Practice Squad. That signals to me that they thought he might have more than just a backup's ceiling. I think he has been their insurance policy all along, which is why they didn't get hasty in trying to acquire Bradford or Kaepernick or any of the other names that were thrown around. But it's possible I'm giving them too much credit and they got a little bit lucky with how things have played out.

Could be. I believe they liked him, but I think they expected to keep Osweiler and have Trevor as his backup. When they lost Osweiler, I doubt they thought that a prospect in his second year would play like this.

[TXBRONC]

Or they weren't certain and were just preparing for the season. Probably why they gave Sanchez a contract that was easy to get out of if needed.

Then also tried to trade for Kaepernick. The were not going to bring him to be a back up quarterback.

[Joel]

I doubt we would've traded up for a 1st round pick to spend on a QB if Elway and Kubiak thought it even LIKELY a sophomore 7th rounder with NO pro playing experience could carry the offense if Oz held out for the embarrassing contract Houston gave him. It's working out really well so far, a tribute to the smarts and work ethic of both Kubiak and Siemian. But if it gets better rather than worse Siemian will have beaten very long odds, as the HoF QB running our FO and the career backup QB running our roster know better than anyone. All that said:

I realize everyone's impatient to play with and BREAK their shiny new toy before Christmas, but if you do Papa Elway won't buy you a new one till next year. What happened to Siemian last week with Stephenson out is just one of many reasons I didn't want to rush Lynch. Fact is, on Opening Day the defending NFC Champs had been brooding, identifying mistakes and plotting vengeance for their SB loss TWICE as long as Lynch had even been on an NFL practice field. If we'd thrown him out there it's VERY unlikely we'd still be undefeated, and quite likely we'd be wondering if/how long that backup sophomore 7th rounder could carry the offense while we waited for Lynch to get healthy enough to play again. And he probably wouldn't be practicing during that time either, slowing rather than hastening development.

[Davii]

I doubt we would've traded up for a 1st round pick to spend on a QB if Elway and Kubiak thought it even LIKELY a sophomore 7th rounder with NO pro playing experience could carry the offense if Oz held out for the embarrassing contract Houston gave him. It's working out really well so far, a tribute to the smarts and work ethic of both Kubiak and Siemian. But if it gets better rather than worse Siemian will have beaten very long odds, as the HoF QB running our FO and the career backup QB running our roster know better than anyone. All that said:

I realize everyone's impatient to play with and BREAK their shiny new toy before Christmas, but if you do Papa Elway won't buy you a new one till next year. What happened to Siemian last week with Stephenson out is just one of many reasons I didn't want to rush Lynch. Fact is, on Opening Day the defending NFC Champs had been brooding, identifying mistakes and plotting vengeance for their SB loss TWICE as long as Lynch had even been on an NFL practice field. If we'd thrown him out there it's VERY unlikely we'd still be undefeated, and quite likely we'd be wondering if/how long that backup sophomore 7th rounder could carry the offense while we waited for Lynch to get healthy enough to play again. And he probably wouldn't be practicing during that time either, slowing rather than hastening development.

Yeah, those two sacks Carolina had might've really smashed Paxton's glass lady parts....

I don't think he's ready, but this doom and gloom oh my god he'll die scenario is absolutely, completely ridiculous.