Is #13 any good?

[Valar Morghulis]

I can't decide.

Sure, he did well against Carolina
Fine against Colts
Had some big plays against Bengals

He should have had another two picks in cinci, his first half throws and overall stats were dreadful

Then balled out in the second half

But is he the quarter back of the future?

[Simple Jaded]

I think he can be the QBotF, I doubt that's the plan though. So maybe for another team, send him home to Chicago for a pick.

He was a 50/50 proposition for most of the day though, some really bad placement follow by threading the needle.

[LawDog]

Yes

/end thread

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

23 of 34 for 320 yards 4 TD's and no INT's. Some of you Sally's are never happy 😆

[Dapper Dan]

He's no Andy Dalton.

#PraiseAllah

[Northman]

Trevor got away with a couple of INT drops and he will most certainly have a day when it doesnt go well for him but considering all that he has played well and made the passes he needs to make to get the job done. He is more than adequate and looked worlds better against Cincy than Brock did against NE.

[Valar Morghulis]

23 of 34 for 320 yards 4 TD's and no INT's. Some of you Sally's are never happy ��

The sunshines on a duck's arse every now and again.....

But it's not so much that I am unhappy, more that I can't evaluate or decide on what I have seen so far.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

The sunshines on a duck's arse every now and again.....

But it's not so much that I am unhappy, more that I can't evaluate or decide on what I have seen so far.

He's still learning so we can expect mistakes, but what I see is a guy who isn't scared by the speed of the game, has a high football IQ and a lot of arm talent.

He's also playing at a higher level than what we saw from the QB position last year.

I am thrilled with what happened today. We had no running game today and we beat them through the air.

[LawDog]

The sunshines on a duck's arse every now and again.....

But it's not so much that I am unhappy, more that I can't evaluate or decide on what I have seen so far.

You are a fan, not a pro scout. Nothing to be ashamed of. Trevor is good, quite good, on his way to very good. Will he be great? Who knows but he's going in the right direction.

[CrazyHorse]

He's the next Tom Brady(minus the cheating of course)

[Cugel]

If he continues to play as well as this for the rest of the season, Lynch will continue to keep the bench warm with his butt.

Whether that continues next season would depend on how Siemian does the rest of the way. It would take continuous great play for him to supplant Lynch, but we saw great play today. Any day over 300 yards, with 4 TDs and no INTs isn't a good day, that's a great day.

One thing he has going for him is that they are playing Tampa next week and that is a much weaker team than the Bengals in every way.

[Rick]

I think he has potential to be a quality starter for a lot of years, I think he will bounce around a bit though to various teams.

I think the Bengals came wanting to shut the run game down and dare a young QB to beat them deep. He did just that.

[MOtorboat]

Yes.

[aberdien]

He is our Matt Schaub.

[OrangeHoof]

Semien is a good QB in Kubiak's system. Right now, Broncos' D bails him out or we might not be so happy. IMO Lynch is our QBOTF but I hope Semien does well so we can get a quality draft pick for him when his time comes.

[Northman]

I dont think the Broncos D bailed him out today. We couldnt run worth a damn so it was either let the football fly or get beaten because the "mighty" D gave up over a 100 yds on the ground to Hill. The D made plays in the end when they needed to but without the 4 TD passes from Siemien it may have been a lot worse for Denver today.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

CINCINNATI -- Four touchdown passes, more than 300 yards passing, two clutch touchdown drives in the fourth quarter.

Trevor Siemian played every bit like Peyton Manning in his first road start.

In some ways, even better.

Siemian was nearly perfect as he rallied the Denver Broncos to a 29-17 victory over the Cincinnati Bengals on Sunday, leading a pair of fourth-quarter touchdown drives with veteran aplomb.

The defending Super Bowl champions' biggest offseason challenge was replacing their famous quarterback, and it looks as if they made the right choice. They're 3-0 under Siemian, who took over after Manning retired and Brock Osweiler went to Houston.

Siemian became the first Bronco to throw for four touchdowns since Manning in 2014 against the Dolphins. No NFL quarterback had thrown for 300 yards with four touchdowns and no interceptions in their road debut, according to ESPN Stats and Info.

rest - plus video - http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2016092502/2016/REG3/broncos@bengals#tab=recap&recap=fullstory&menu=gameinfo%7CcontentId%3A0ap3000000709489

[Slick]

He's doing well. He still had a couple of bone headed throws that were lucky not to be intercepted. His second half was fantastic, especially the last two drives. After the second TD to Sanders when Denver was up 5 after the failed 2pt conversion, the D forced a 3 and out. I was thinking here comes some handoffs and a punt. It was very nice to see Kubiak show confidence and let Siemian kill the game off. He was up to the task.

I like him but I'm still thinking Lynch could have done just as well over the last 3 games, maybe not today but certainly the last two. Gary has handled this well. You can't do any better than 3-0.

[gregbroncs]

I like what I see. He has a good presence in the pocket and has a good arm. He still makes a few mistakes but what QB doesn't. My biggest question was whether he could make plays down the field to win a game on an off day by the defense. He did that today.

[TXBRONC]

He's doing well. He still had a couple of bone headed throws that were lucky not to be intercepted. His second half was fantastic, especially the last two drives. After the second TD to Sanders when Denver was up 5 after the failed 2pt conversion, the D forced a 3 and out. I was thinking here comes some handoffs and a punt. It was very nice to see Kubiak show confidence and let Siemian kill the game off. He was up to the task.

I like him but I'm still thinking Lynch could have done just as well over the last 3 games, maybe not today but certainly the last two. Gary has handled this well. You can't do any better than 3-0.

There was way to much time left in the game for Kubiak to go ultra conservative at that point.

I think you're spot on with everything else.

[Joel]

I think he can be the QBotF, I doubt that's the plan though. So maybe for another team, send him home to Chicago for a pick.

He was a 50/50 proposition for most of the day though, some really bad placement follow by threading the needle.
Sounds right.


If he continues to play as well as this for the rest of the season, Lynch will continue to keep the bench warm with his butt.

Whether that continues next season would depend on how Siemian does the rest of the way. It would take continuous great play for him to supplant Lynch, but we saw great play today. Any day over 300 yards, with 4 TDs and no INTs isn't a good day, that's a great day.

One thing he has going for him is that they are playing Tampa next week and that is a much weaker team than the Bengals in every way.
Yeah, as good and poised as he's looked, I don't think Siemians promising start's sustainable: It's more likely DCs gain enough game tape to figure out how to stop him than that he takes an impressive debut to the next level of permanent starter. If only because his protection's still spotty and the right side of our line's still a TDB mess that struggles to provide him either protection OR run support.

If he pulls it off anyway though, great; there'd be nothing wrong with Siemian becoming "the next Tom Brady" in the sense of a late round QB who steals a first round franchise QBs job and goes on to a HoF career (again, minus the cheating.)

[Joel]

He is our Matt Schaub.
Dear, God, NO! Don't even JOKE about that crap. Anyway, Siemian's not a bust former stater the owner/GM shoved down Kubiaks throat despite the coach finding better QBs even among late round and UDFA ROOKIES. If anything, Lynch is more likely to be our Schaub (again, heaven forbid.)

[tripp]

Quarterback grade: Trevor Siemian 69.5

Numbers don’t match the eye for Siemian

A nice drive may leave many feeling good about Siemian, but there was enough here to suggest that he could be the Achilles heel for the Broncos. He escaped a dangerous pick after throwing the ball straight to Shawn Williams and a number of times missed routine throws that took his team off the field.


https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-nfl-denver-cincinnati-grades-week-3/

[Joel]

He's doing well. He still had a couple of bone headed throws that were lucky not to be intercepted. His second half was fantastic, especially the last two drives. After the second TD to Sanders when Denver was up 5 after the failed 2pt conversion, the D forced a 3 and out. I was thinking here comes some handoffs and a punt. It was very nice to see Kubiak show confidence and let Siemian kill the game off. He was up to the task.

I like him but I'm still thinking Lynch could have done just as well over the last 3 games, maybe not today but certainly the last two. Gary has handled this well. You can't do any better than 3-0.
I'm curious what reason you have to think Lynch could have done as well in the last 2-3 games. Maybe he could, maybe not, but it's the third game of a rookie season where he's yet to play a snap: What possible evidence could exist that he'd have done as well as the guy who's taken EVERY snap? The biggest thing we're probably seeing right now is how much a full year (rather than two months) of studying Kubiaks playbook helps a young QB.

Understand, I still think Lynch will EVENTUALLY be the guy, but this isn't 2017, 2018 nor 2026. Likewise, I still expect veteran DCs to catch up to Siemian sooner than later, but until we have permanent starters on the right side of our line (preferably starters worthy of the name) I'd rather Lynch weren't the one taking the licks when the protection's non-existent and/or the stuffed run game leaves us in 3rd and 13.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

He is our Matt Schaub.

You scum sucking pig!

[I Eat Staples]

He had 2 bad games and 1 good game. And his 1 good game could have been bad if his near-INTs weren't dropped in the first half.

I'm very impressed with what Trevor has done for a 7th round pick. The value we got from him is amazing, and he's an awesome story. But no, I don't think he is or should be our QBotF. Lynch is much, much more talented. Trevor will probably never get much better because the traits that made him the starter (poise, intelligence, demeanor) have already fully developed and he'll never have the physical tools to be one of the true greats. Lynch has them, it's just a question of will he develop the rest.

[I Eat Staples]

I think it's hilarious when people react negatively to Siemian being compared to QBs like Orton or Schaub. Getting an Orton or Schaub in the 7th round is ******* phenomenal.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Quarterback grade: Trevor Siemian 69.5

Numbers don’t match the eye for Siemian

A nice drive may leave many feeling good about Siemian, but there was enough here to suggest that he could be the Achilles heel for the Broncos. He escaped a dangerous pick after throwing the ball straight to Shawn Williams and a number of times missed routine throws that took his team off the field.


https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-nfl-denver-cincinnati-grades-week-3/

That's a narrow analysis. He played very well in the second half.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

from article:


But it was the Broncos’ young quarterback, Trevor Siemian, who passed the biggest test of his career with flying and record-setting colors. The seventh-round draft pick, playing in his first NFL road game, completed 23-of-35 passes for 312 yards, four touchdowns, zero interceptions and a 132.1 passer rating, keying an impressive fourth-quarter run for the victory.

“It was a great outing,” Broncos coach Gary Kubiak said. “I don’t think you get too carried away — but we know we have a good young quarterback who’s on a good team, and this was a great sign today. He came into a tough environment, handled himself very well and played big.”

The victory was only the third of its kind for a Broncos quarterback on the road. Peyton Manning twice had 300-yard, four-touchdown and zero-interception road games — when he shattered records and was named MVP in 2013.

http://www.denverpost.com/2016/09/25/denver-broncos-cincinnati-bengals-trevor-siemian/

[tripp]

The one thing I find is unique and awesome at the same time is how the players LOVE him. The amount of tweets you see from the players complimenting him, and encouraging him is awesome. Speaks to Trevor's character in the locker room for these players to go out of their way say these things.

[VonDoom]

We always said we just needed him to be decent. He's been kind of inconsistent - the stats today will say he was great (4 TD, 0 INT) but we all saw a couple of balls that could have been picked. It was really a tale of two halves. In the first half, he couldn't seem to hit the broad side of a barn, though I'm not sure why. Even the TD to Sanders was underthrown, and Sanders had to turn all the way around to catch it. Then in the second half, he's throwing darts including the beautiful TD to Thomas. Been kind of like that all year, really. So to me, that adds up to ... decent, which is what we need anyway.

I think ultimately this offense will be better off with Lynch out there, though I'm really only basing that on potential and hope. For now, if he can avoid turnovers, Siemian seems good enough to me.

[Tned]

The sunshines on a duck's arse every now and again.....

But it's not so much that I am unhappy, more that I can't evaluate or decide on what I have seen so far.

Problem is that with only three games and a grand total of less than 100 career passes, nobody knows.

It's important to remember that other than when Manning was hurt for the stretch last year, Trevor was mostly running scout team plays as the third string QB. Not only was he not getting any playing time during games, he was the third stringer in practice, with little to no first team reps (was probably lucky to get many second team reps).

So, now he's sitting middle of the pack in passing yards and around 10th or so in passer rating, and the Broncos are 3-0.

The first half of this game, he made more bad throws than he did in the first two games combined. During those first two games, he made only a half dozen or so bad throws. I'm not counting a throw that is thrown to the outside, leading the receiver away from the defender and then being just out of reach or off the finger tips a "bad" throw. Bad throws are missing a wide open receiver, throwing a pick into the defenders hands (vs. a pass that is tipped up, especially if off the receiver's hands).

Overall, when you look at his mechanics, and the results of his throw, it really is astounding when you also consider the fact he had a limited college career.

I believe I read he only had around a dozen starts in his four year college career and his senior season ended with a torn ACL, which means he entered the NFL recovering from that ACL injury.

So, I find myself asking the same questions, trying to figure out what exactly we have in Trevor, but then on the other hand, when I see how insanely good his mechanics and throws are (with the exception of that handful of awful looking throws in the first half), and more importantly, his decision making, and poise in the pocket, and then think that he's had less than 100 pass attempts, three games total, and 12 or so college starts, and I can't help but get a bit excited about what this guy might be like when he actually has some game experience behind him.

[Tned]

I like him but I'm still thinking Lynch could have done just as well over the last 3 games, maybe not today but certainly the last two. Gary has handled this well. You can't do any better than 3-0.

I think there is almost zero chance of this.

[Slick]

I'm curious what reason you have to think Lynch could have done as well in the last 2-3 games. Maybe he could, maybe not, but it's the third game of a rookie season where he's yet to play a snap: What possible evidence could exist that he'd have done as well as the guy who's taken EVERY snap? The biggest thing we're probably seeing right now is how much a full year (rather than two months) of studying Kubiaks playbook helps a young QB.

Understand, I still think Lynch will EVENTUALLY be the guy, but this isn't 2017, 2018 nor 2026. Likewise, I still expect veteran DCs to catch up to Siemian sooner than later, but until we have permanent starters on the right side of our line (preferably starters worthy of the name) I'd rather Lynch weren't the one taking the licks when the protection's non-existent and/or the stuffed run game leaves us in 3rd and 13.

Lynch seems more athletic and has a better arm from the little I saw of him. However, read my post again. I'm not arguing with 3-0. You can't do better than that.

[Joel]

The sole cause for concern I see with our QBs is how well Kubiak and Knapp can divide their attention between developing TWO talented young QBs simultaneously. If we could put Siemians skilled technique and calm self assurance in Lynchs powerful arm and legs we'd have an All Pro QB. Instead, we have a guy ideally suited to mind even a contenders store all year, then Lynch can come out and show our coaches are a big part of why Siemian looks far more experienced than he is.

[Tned]

I think it's hilarious when people react negatively to Siemian being compared to QBs like Orton or Schaub. Getting an Orton or Schaub in the 7th round is ******* phenomenal.

I think it's hilarious when people start comparing a QB to Orton after the guy's first and second career starts.

Ironically, Kyle Orton's third career start was against the Bengals (although at home, not in Cincy).

Let's compare the lines:

Trevor - 23 / 35 65.7% 312 yards 8.9 avg 4 TDs 0 Ints 132.1 rating
Orton - 17 / 39 43.6% 149 yards 3.8 avg 0 TD / 5 INT 14.7 rating

When comparing the first three games of their careers, Siemian is averaging over 100 yards more a game, nearly twice the passer rating, and has thrown 3 more TDs and 2 less int's and has completed 15% more of his passes.

Do you not see how silly it is for you guys to compare Siemian with two, and now three, starts under his belt, to your memory of Orton when he was a five, six or eight year vet?

How many of you actually even watched Orton's first three games of his career? How many of you remember that he was barely serviceable, and that they won mostly due to the incredible defense (he finished that seasons with a passer rating under 60), and even though he started all year, they pulled him in favor of Grossman for the playoffs.

So, I am curious what it is about Trevor's first three games that reminds you so much of Orton's, in order to make the comparison that they are the same type of QB?

[Tned]

Lynch seems more athletic and has a better arm from the little I saw of him. However, read my post again. I'm not arguing with 3-0. You can't do better than that.

With very poor mechanics, who struggles under center, and drops back way too far on his five step drops, dropping back so far that his tackle's can't block the outside speed rush.

He has the raw talent to be incredible. He's big, fast, strong and has a rocket arm, but he came from a shotgun only school and is very raw when it comes to NFL skills. That said, I think it's a testament to how much work he's put in that the Broncos are confident with him being the backup.

[BroncoWave]

With very poor mechanics, who struggles under center, and drops back way too far on his five step drops, dropping back so far that his tackle's can't block the outside speed rush.

He has the raw talent to be incredible. He's big, fast, strong and has a rocket arm, but he came from a shotgun only school and is very raw when it comes to NFL skills. That said, I think it's a testament to how much work he's put in that the Broncos are confident with him being the backup.

Dak Prescott also went to a shotgun-only school and he is already doing just fine from under center. I don't see why Lynch couldn't pick it up quickly as well.

[CrazyHorse]

He's played well but has been inconsistent so far.

[Joel]

Lynch seems more athletic and has a better arm from the little I saw of him. However, read my post again. I'm not arguing with 3-0. You can't do better than that.
No one denies Lynch has more inborn talent, but Siemian's succeeding with the practiced skill a franchise QB needs at least as much (despite little ACTUAL practice to develop it.) Again, if Lynchs natural ability came with that same developed ability, we'd be set—but it's also undeniable he came into the NFL pretty raw, just a few months ago. If Siemian's making too many ill-advised pickable throws, imagine how many Lynch would make.

[scott.475]

I didn't get to see the first 8 or 9 minutes of the first quarter, but did hear about the missed passes on the radio. When I finally got home and started watching, it seemed to me like the pocket was collapsing on him quickly and regularly. Now, I don't know football as technically as a lot of you,mso maybe it was just my perception, but sure seemed like he was trying to rush passes to avoid the collapsing pocket. That funky, dead duck pass that was almost picked was because a defender got to his arm.

Things seemed to start changing after the 55 yard td to Sanders. Yes, he still made a few mistakes after that, but that play seemed to get the Bengals to pull back a little. Somebody obviously made the right corrections at halftime, because things went well after that.

Trevor sure seems to never get rattled, unlike the fainting goat Orton.

[Slick]

I think there is almost zero chance of this.

Zero chance of being better that 3-0? Way to go out on a limb. :D

[Rick]

Not sure how people could compare Orton and Trevor at all.

Trevor has a much stronger arm and is much more mobile.

Orton was the perfect example of game manager, short accurate throws, don't take chances.

Trevor is really more of a gun slinger that in games 1 and 2 they had him try and act more like manager. Based on college and what I have seen in pros though, he is a slinger and some picks are going to come with the package.

[Tned]

Zero chance of being better that 3-0? Way to go out on a limb. :D

Nearly zero chance that Lynch would have played just as well in his first three games. Not only for the reasons I mentioned, but also because he didn't have the benefit of a red shirt first year in the NFL, learning behind Peyton Manning.


Dak Prescott also went to a shotgun-only school and he is already doing just fine from under center. I don't see why Lynch couldn't pick it up quickly as well.

Yes, and Prescott has surprised everyone. Nobody thought he would play this well, this soon, which is why he was drafted where he was and considered a project with good upside. He had a great preseason, and has been impressive.

That said, unless you think that Lynch is somehow a clone of Prescott, I'm not sure what one has to do with the other.

Are you really saying that you would rather see the kid that couldn't win the job, be the starter, because he "might" be able to pick it up like Prescott, and defending the Lombardi be damned? :confused:

[BroncoWave]

Nearly zero chance that Lynch would have played just as well in his first three games. Not only for the reasons I mentioned, but also because he didn't have the benefit of a red shirt first year in the NFL, learning behind Peyton Manning.



Yes, and Prescott has surprised everyone. Nobody thought he would play this well, this soon, which is why he was drafted where he was and considered a project with good upside. He had a great preseason, and has been impressive.

That said, unless you think that Lynch is somehow a clone of Prescott, I'm not sure what one has to do with the other.

Are you really saying that you would rather see the kid that couldn't win the job, be the starter, because he "might" be able to pick it up like Prescott, and defending the Lombardi be damned? :confused:

No, I'm not saying that. I'm simply saying that just because he played in a shotgun system in college doesn't mean he couldn't transition to the NFL quickly.

[Tned]

No, I'm not saying that. I'm simply saying that just because he played in a shotgun system in college doesn't mean he couldn't transition to the NFL quickly.

Correct, other than unlike Prescott, he didn't have a great preseason and showed he wasn't progressing as quickly, which isn't surprising.

For your reading pleasure: http://www.espn.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/116733/grudens-qb-camp-paxton-lynch-and-dak-prescott

It's not a surprise that Prescott is farther along than Lynch.

[Slick]

Nearly zero chance that Lynch would have played just as well in his first three games. Not only for the reasons I mentioned, but also because he didn't have the benefit of a red shirt first year in the NFL, learning behind Peyton Manning.

We disagree.

Don't confuse my stance as complaining that Lynch isn't playing. I'm fine with Siemian. I understand why he starts. I just don't think he's done head and shoulders above what Lynch might have done had he had the chance.

[Joel]

I didn't get to see the first 8 or 9 minutes of the first quarter, but did hear about the missed passes on the radio. When I finally got home and started watching, it seemed to me like the pocket was collapsing on him quickly and regularly. Now, I don't know football as technically as a lot of you,mso maybe it was just my perception, but sure seemed like he was trying to rush passes to avoid the collapsing pocket. That funky, dead duck pass that was almost picked was because a defender got to his arm.
This is neither a new nor surprising thing; yet again, I'm grateful Siemian's the one learning that version of the "pro game" instead of Lynch. People can compare hypothetical Lynch to actual Prescott all they want, but Dallas' line is light years better than ours.


We disagree.

Don't confuse my stance as complaining that Lynch isn't playing. I'm fine with Siemian. I understand why he starts. I just don't think he's done head and shoulders above what Lynch might have done had he had the chance.
Anything's possible, so Lynch MIGHT have done anything IF he'd had the chance. But "anything" runs the rookie gamut from Prescott to Leaf; odds are Lynch would've been somewhere between the two, and probably well on the wrong side of Siemians performance thus far.

[Tned]

We disagree.

Don't confuse my stance as complaining that Lynch isn't playing. I'm fine with Siemian. I understand why he starts. I just don't think he's done head and shoulders above what Lynch might have done had he had the chance.

Well, I'll go with the agree to disagree, because I think it's fantasy land to think Lynch would have a three game line that looks like this, and am blown away that you guys aren't creaming your pants with this production out of Siemian.













Games
Comp
Att
Yds
Avg
Long
TD
Int
Sack
Sk Yds
Rating


.
Siemian, Trevor (DEN)
3
63
94
756
8.0
55
5
3
5
28
95.9



Most important, beyond the stat line, he's looked great with the exception of some bad throws in the first half today.

[Joel]

Well, I'll go with the agree to disagree, because I think it's fantasy land
Let's pause there, because that's EXACTLY what it is: Comparing what Siemian's ACTUALLY done to what Lynch MIGHT have done. No one can "win" such a comparison; it's comparing apples to some unknown fruit that may— or may not—taste far better, far worse or somewhere in the middle. That said....


to think Lynch would have a three game line that looks like this, and am blown away that you guys aren't creaming your pants with this production out of Siemian.




Games
Comp
Att
Yds
Avg
Long
TD
Int
Sack
Sk Yds
Rating


.
Siemian, Trevor (DEN)
3
63
94
756
8.0
55
5
3
5
28
95.9



Seriously. I mean, let's ignore the 67% completions (even though it currently ranks 7th in the NFL;) extrapolated to a full season, those numbers translate to 336/502 for 4032 yds, 26 TDs and 16 Ints. Ya'll tell me: Would a 4000 yd season be good for a SECOND-year QB who's NEVER even PLAYED (much less STARTED) an NFL game? With 67% completions and nearly a 2:1 TD/Int ratio?

Once Manning retired, people would've been "creaming their pants" if Osweiler did that much with FOUR seasons experience, including half of the last one as the STARTER. Siemian's on pace to do it with a SINGLE season of experience when he didn't even take a SNAP (OK, fine he had a SINGLE kneel down last year; I still don't count that as "playing in the NFL," because I or anyone here could do it equally well.)


Most important, beyond the stat line, he's looked great with the exception of some bad throws in the first half today.
Despite what Pro Football Flotsam says about the eye test not matching the stats. That place says lots of stuff; some of it's even true.

[Canmore]

Sounds right.


Yeah, as good and poised as he's looked, I don't think Siemians promising start's sustainable: It's more likely DCs gain enough game tape to figure out how to stop him than that he takes an impressive debut to the next level of permanent starter. If only because his protection's still spotty and the right side of our line's still a TDB mess that struggles to provide him either protection OR run support.

If he pulls it off anyway though, great; there'd be nothing wrong with Siemian becoming "the next Tom Brady" in the sense of a late round QB who steals a first round franchise QBs job and goes on to a HoF career (again, minus the cheating.)

Don't buy it. At least at this point.

Three potential playoff teams and we are THREE AND OOOH.

Give Trevor a break.

[Canmore]

Problem is that with only three games and a grand total of less than 100 career passes, nobody knows.

It's important to remember that other than when Manning was hurt for the stretch last year, Trevor was mostly running scout team plays as the third string QB. Not only was he not getting any playing time during games, he was the third stringer in practice, with little to no first team reps (was probably lucky to get many second team reps).

So, now he's sitting middle of the pack in passing yards and around 10th or so in passer rating, and the Broncos are 3-0.

The first half of this game, he made more bad throws than he did in the first two games combined. During those first two games, he made only a half dozen or so bad throws. I'm not counting a throw that is thrown to the outside, leading the receiver away from the defender and then being just out of reach or off the finger tips a "bad" throw. Bad throws are missing a wide open receiver, throwing a pick into the defenders hands (vs. a pass that is tipped up, especially if off the receiver's hands).

Overall, when you look at his mechanics, and the results of his throw, it really is astounding when you also consider the fact he had a limited college career.

I believe I read he only had around a dozen starts in his four year college career and his senior season ended with a torn ACL, which means he entered the NFL recovering from that ACL injury.

So, I find myself asking the same questions, trying to figure out what exactly we have in Trevor, but then on the other hand, when I see how insanely good his mechanics and throws are (with the exception of that handful of awful looking throws in the first half), and more importantly, his decision making, and poise in the pocket, and then think that he's had less than 100 pass attempts, three games total, and 12 or so college starts, and I can't help but get a bit excited about what this guy might be like when he actually has some game experience behind him.

Agreed. I'm not someone who hops on bandwagons, but I'm feeling the Trevor.

[Canmore]

Dak Prescott also went to a shotgun-only school and he is already doing just fine from under center. I don't see why Lynch couldn't pick it up quickly as well.

Really!!! Sorry, this comparison is idiotic.

[Joel]

Don't buy it. At least at this point.

Three potential playoff teams and we are THREE AND OOOH.

Give Trevor a break.
Three potential playoff teams with NO Siemian tape. Okay, Cincy had two games worth, but also about a DECADES worth of choking away any and all big games.

This is far from the first unheralded QB to enter the Kubiak System and immediately blow everyones mind—for a SINGLE season. After that, 31 veteran pro DCs had plenty of tape to pore over, circling each gimmick Kubiak uses to hide a particular QBs weaknesses and maximize his strengths. Then they all blitz immobile pocket passers like Griese and Schaub, or force erratic frenetic scramblers like Plummer to stay IN the pocket until frustrated enough to do desperate things.

If we're still having this conversation in a month or two, maybe—MAYBE—then we can talk about whether Siemian's the franchise guy and we should shop Lynch for a stud 25-year-old OT (or a stud G and ILB...?) Yet even then the reality is it'd probably be about a month from now NEXT season before any firm prediction of Siemians career arc would be possible. For now, having Siemian AND Lynch still looks way better than one or the other.

[Joel]

Yellow lines, dead armadillos and me. :tongue:

[Canmore]

Three potential playoff teams with NO Siemian tape. Okay, Cincy had two games worth, but also about a DECADES worth of choking away any and all big games.

This is far from the first unheralded QB to enter the Kubiak System and immediately blow everyones mind—for a SINGLE season. After that, 31 veteran pro DCs had plenty of tape to pore over, circling each single gimmick Kubiak uses to hide a particular QBs weaknesses and maximize his strengths. Then they all blitz immobile pocket passers like Griese and Schaub, or force erratic frenetic scramblers like Plummer to stay IN the pocket until frustrated enough to do desperate things.

If we're still having this conversation in a month or two, maybe—MAYBE—then we can talk about whether Siemian's the franchise guy and we should shop Lynch for a stud 25-year-old OT (or a stud G and ILB...?) Yet even then the reality is it'd probably be about a month from now NEXT season before any firm prediction of Siemians career arc would be possible. For now, having Siemian AND Lynch still looks way better than one or the other.

Unlike many posters here, I love your takes.

I said "At least at this point."

I know where you are coming from. "This is far from the first unheralded QB to enter the Kubiak System and immediately blow everyones mind—for a SINGLE season." I don't buy it. Siemian does not remind me at all when compared to Griese and very little compared to Schaub.

He doesn't look at all like parlor tricks or smoke and mirrors.

When there is tape on him, as you are insinuating, I don't think there is going to be a huge change. I really like what I see. Trevor Siemian is 1st QB in NFL history to throw for 300 yards & 4 TD w/out an interception in his 1st career road start.

This is not the end of the road. I feel it is looking like just the beginning.

[Simple Jaded]

No, I'm not saying that. I'm simply saying that just because he played in a shotgun system in college doesn't mean he couldn't transition to the NFL quickly.

Prescott is an outlier, the majority of QB's from a system like Meyer's is a complete waste of time. You're selling your own guy way, way short, what he doing is the exception.

[iLands]

I've had this sig from day 1 so I think we can attribute this success solely to me.

[Canmore]

I've had this sig from day 1 so I think we can attribute this success solely to me.

There you have it.

iLands is smarter.

Whatever it takes!

[Joel]

Unlike many posters here, I love your takes.

I said "At least at this point."
That's fair and reasonable; it's far too soon to be sure of Siemian (and certainly of Lynch) either way.


I know where you are coming from. "This is far from the first unheralded QB to enter the Kubiak System and immediately blow everyones mind—for a SINGLE season." I don't buy it. Siemian does not remind me at all when compared to Griese and very little compared to Schaub.
He reminds me a lot of Griese: He was sharp, made good reads and I never saw him make the same MISTAKE, but his arm was under-powered and he couldn't evade blitzers long enough for anyone to get open. Siemian looks like that with a bit more mobility. He's not as shellshocked as Griese and Schaub were by the end, but he's also only three games into his career.


He doesn't look at all like parlor tricks or smoke and mirrors.
They never do at first; Kubiak's VERY good at playing shell games with a QBs flaws and playing to their strengths. But all have some of each; the good ones just have far more strengths and far fewer flaws than the bad ones (except maybe Rodgers; he may have a weakness, but I'll need someone to show it to me.) Siemian's already revealed one, and it's uncoachable: Nothing Kubiak nor Knapp can do in film room or on practice fields can enable Siemian to throw a ball 70 yds in the air.


When there is tape on him, as you are insinuating, I don't think there is going to be a huge change. I really like what I see. Trevor Siemian is 1st QB in NFL history to throw for 300 yards & 4 TD w/out an interception in his 1st career road start.
Well, I believe the rule is teams must provide their next opponent full tapes of their last three games, so there's officially a full complement for Siemian now. One way or the other, we'll know by seasons end whether it makes a difference. Maybe not in the next few weeks, because our schedule's pretty soft for a while (http://www.denverbroncos.com/schedule-and-events/schedule.html), but by the time get into the Texans D and divisional games against KC and Oakland, there'll be tons of tape. It's not like teams are RESTRICTED to what opponents provide.


This is not the end of the road. I feel it is looking like just the beginning.
Clearly, but still far too soon to know where that road leads.

[Joel]

Despite that "middle of the road" comment, I think Lynch is (probably) our QBotF. Another way to view the comment that combining Siemians practiced skill and composure with Lynchs innate physical ability would yield an All Pro: Coaching can improve Lynchs mechanics, coverage reads, playbook knowledge, etc—but "you can't coach speed," arm strength, size nor elusiveness. There are ways to marginally improve them, but the emphasis is on "marginal," not "improve."

Just for yucks though: Going into his senior year, Siemian apparently told the press he runs a 4.38 40 (http://www.insidenu.com/2014/8/8/5982581/trevor-siemian-northwestern-quarterback). (Slightly) more credible sources put him at 4.84, and Lynch at 4.86: A little slower than Peyton Manning at his combine. No word on Siemians all-important three-cone (Lynchs was 7.14; his vert and broad jump led all QBs, but those stats for QBs make three-cone look deeply relevant by comparison.)

[Tned]

An interesting Sporting news article on Siemian heading into the draft.

NFL teams are allowed to bring 30 draft prospects into their facility for interviews, workouts, etc. They burned one of them on a guy that might not even get drafted (Sporting News predicted Broncos would use a 7th on him). Clearly Elway and Kubiak saw something they liked.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/trevor-siemian-broncos-browns-nfl-draft-northwestern-quarterback-knee-injury-ranking/cxak9jlwj9lz19cha8meo0fa6

[Mike]

We disagree.

Don't confuse my stance as complaining that Lynch isn't playing. I'm fine with Siemian. I understand why he starts. I just don't think he's done head and shoulders above what Lynch might have done had he had the chance.

There is no chance Denver is 3-0 with him as the starter. Did you watch his last preseason game? He was very rough....against other rough players. He was drafted as a project QB for a reason.

Siemian has played very well for a second year, first time starter. Denver could not have asked for or expected better play at the QB position. I can't believe that more fans aren't excited about how well he has done.

[VonDoom]

Here's a piece on Siemian from the MMQB this morning:


If Sunday’s performance at Cincinnati is an indication, Siemian will make strides. Because what was most encouraging about that game was not the way Denver helped its young QB schematically. It was the way that young QB found his own rhythm in the second half after a first half that was marred by inaccurate throws. Siemian has an attractive and compact release, yes. But more important than how a ball leave’s a quarterback’s hand is how it finds a receiver’s. Precision accuracy is near the top of the list of things Siemian must improve.

The good news is Siemian’s inconsistencies—ball placement, field reading—are mostly correctable. For a sound-minded and well-coached QB, experience alone can clean it up. And so the Broncos and their young quarterback will keep working. And all the while, they can keep winning. Through Siemian’s growing pains, the Broncos have beaten the defending NFC champion Panthers, the popular AFC South favorite Colts and now, the defending AFC North champion Bengals on the road. What will this team look like if its quarterback continues on the track he found in the second half on Sunday?

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/09/25/nfl-week-3-trevor-siemian-denver-broncos-gary-kubiak

[Rick]

I am looking forward to Lynch as the guy in future years as much as anyone but I think those that are propping up Lynch's arm strength in such a way that they seem to be implying a lack of arm strength for Simien must have missed the 2 TDs in that game that went over 40 yards.

They were not passes that went 20 yards and the receiver took it to the house, the passes traveled the 40+ yards and the receivers took it the short distance the rest of the way.

Lynch has a stronger arm but lets not go on like Simien has a poor one, the kid has a cannon of his own.

[TXBRONC]

Lynch seems more athletic and has a better arm from the little I saw of him. However, read my post again. I'm not arguing with 3-0. You can't do better than that.

I think you can add to that the fact the running game has been solid in these first three games. Solid running game is one of the best friends a young quarterback can have.

[BigDaddyBronco]

I think he has all the tools to be a starting NFL QB. Accurate, smart, good arm strength, composure, etc. All he needs is experience. The only question I have on him is durability. Can he absorb some of the hits we see him taking every game? Lynch has a bigger body and that might help his long term durability over Trevor. That being said, who would have thought that Tom Brady would have the durability he has had.

[VonDoom]

Mike Tanier's piece this morning has a spotlight on Siemian:


What He Did: Siemian completed 23-of-35 passes for 312 yards, four touchdowns and no interceptions in the Broncos' 29-17 win over the Bengals. The big game against a tough opponent on the road proved that the Broncos don't necessarily need nonstop heroics from their defense to win games. Though they may get those anyway.

What It Means: On third downs against the Bengals, Siemian was 5-of-9 for 124 yards and two deep touchdowns. That makes him 14-of-22 for 209 yards, two touchdowns and nine first downs (plus one interception) on third downs this season. As Siemian develops into a confident, reliable downfield passer on third downs, he grows from Inexpensive Caretaker Quarterback Who Won't Lose Games to Effective System Quarterback Who Might Sometimes Win Games.

Remember, "system quarterback" isn't an insult when you are a seventh-round pick no one heard of nine months ago, and when the system wins Super Bowls.

What Happens Next: The Broncos face the Buccaneers, Falcons and Chargers over the next three weeks. You won't need to take that Paxton Lynch jersey out of the closet before Halloween.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2665804-monday-morning-digest-norman-beckham-ii-all-aboard-the-wentz-wagon-and-more

[Denver Native (Carol)]

CINCINNATI -- As the fourth quarter began, it was clear the Broncos weren't going to win without putting the game in the hands of Trevor Siemian.

The ground game had stalled, buckling under the weight of a Bengals defense stacked in the box to stop the run, just as it had been from the outset. C.J. Anderson and Devontae Booker had combined for just 35 yards on 11 carries; they would muster just 10 more on seven carries the rest of the way.

Trailing 17-16, with the Paul Brown Stadium crowd shoving noise through the Broncos' ear canals, the Broncos had to win through the air.

It was Siemian's game to win or lose.

He responded with brilliance.

Two-touchdowns-in-the-fourth-quarter brilliance. Drop-the-ball past man-coverage-up-the-sideline brilliance. Find-the-tight-end-with-no-career-receptions-down-the-seam brilliance.

The Broncos defeated the Bengals 29-17 and handed them their first home September loss in five years because Siemian overcame a pair of near-interceptions, settled down and guided his team to victory.

"He didn't just play. He played big in the game today," Head Coach Gary Kubiak said.

A perfect fourth quarter -- and by the NFL's quarterback-rating computation, it was, at 158.3 -- capped an afternoon in which Siemian answered one question after another.

AND


"I know he's a young quarterback, but he doesn't act like it," Sanders said. "He's always poised. He's always calm, cool and collected."

rest - much more - http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Just-one-game-but-Trevor-Siemians-gusto-grabbing-big-day-for-Broncos-could-echo-for-weeks-to-come/85c39839-f86b-42cf-8d73-dfd1bf4d1d58

[TXBRONC]

No one can deny that Siemian played very well in these first three games. It will be interesting to how he handles the grind and stress of the season as it goes on.

[slim]

Young and inconsistent with a lot of potential.

I like him.

[NightTerror218]

Siemian made me eat crow. I commented how he would not go deep and was holding back. Which led yo to holding our offense back. He let it rip this game. Showed this offense is not run dependent. I give a lot of credit to kubiak for changing the play calls to more passing and take what the defense gave him. Lots on man on man coverage.

His stats show a great game but that us not always the picture. 2 TD could have easily been wiped off the board if defenders caught the ball that hit them square in the hands. He made some beautiful passes and threaded the needle at times. 1st half he was just off with lots of high passes or thrown behind WR.

[BroncoJoe]

S13mian!!!!

[BroncoJoe]

Siemian made me eat crow. I commented how he would not go deep and was holding back. Which led yo to holding our offense back. He let it rip this game. Showed this offense is not run dependent. I give a lot of credit to kubiak for changing the play calls to more passing and take what the defense gave him. Lots on man on man coverage.

His stats show a great game but that us not always the picture. 2 TD could have easily been wiped off the board if defenders caught the ball that hit them square in the hands. He made some beautiful passes and threaded the needle at times. 1st half he was just off with lots of high passes or thrown behind WR.

Yeah, but if I ran that red light last night, I would have been t-boned and possibly killed.

It didn't actually happen.

[slim]

He is infallible and above reproach.

Sincerely,

Dogfish and MO

[Denver Native (Carol)]

more from article by Andrew Mason


"Even on the deep ball to Demaryius, he said, 'We're about to go for the gusto,'" Sanders said.

"I think I was passing the word along from [Kubiak],' Siemian said. "I knew we had a shot."

A shot is a shot, even if Siemian wouldn't have used the word "gusto" on his own.

"I don't recall the verbiage," Siemian deadpanned.

"Gusto" or not, that wasn't the only sentiment the uber-confident quarterback conveyed, as Anderson recalled.

"He said it in the huddle: 'Man, if I put this up, are you going to make a play?'" Anderson said. "DT told him, 'Yeah.'"

http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Just-one-game-but-Trevor-Siemians-gusto-grabbing-big-day-for-Broncos-could-echo-for-weeks-to-come/85c39839-f86b-42cf-8d73-dfd1bf4d1d58

So far, I am totally impressed with Trevor

[Denver Native (Carol)]

John Elway delivered what might be the ether of the year on Sunday, finding a fan’s old Trevor Siemian criticism and reminding them about it.

In a tweet that’s since been deleted, the Broncos president replied to a tweet from user “nfkrauss,” which called into question the selection of Siemian in the seventh round.

“So many other needs, In John we trust,” the fan started, “but this seems like a huge reach.”

After Siemian threw for 312 yards in a 29–17 win, Elway went back, found the tweet, and simply called it to the fan’s attention.

rest - http://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2016/09/25/john-elway-trevor-siemian-criticism-twitter-reply

AND


Jake Marsing @JakeDMarsing

This troll job by @johnelway is pretty exceptional.
4:16 PM - 25 Sep 2016

By simply tweeting back a blank message at the account, Elway dredged the old message up. It reads as a passive-aggressive but funny way to say, “Don’t question me.”

http://www.denverite.com/john-elway-waited-almost-two-years-troll-twitter-user-17292/

[silkamilkamonico]

If he is the future, what would we take for Lynch? Surely we aren't going to spend a first round pick (and also whatever it took to move up to acquire him) to be a backup player, nonetheless a QB who we hope will never play.

If he isn't the future, what point do they move past Simien and put Lynch in. That could be an interesting situation especially if Simien keeps playing well like he has or gets better.

Not a bad dilemma if Denver finds the QBOTF, but a dilemma nonetheless.

[BroncoJoe]

If he is the future, what would we take for Lynch? Surely we aren't going to spend a first round pick (and also whatever it took to move up to acquire him) to be a backup player, nonetheless a QB who we hope will never play.

If he isn't the future, what point do they move past Simien and put Lynch in. That could be an interesting situation especially if Simien keeps playing well like he has or gets better.

Not a bad dilemma if Denver finds the QBOTF, but a dilemma nonetheless.

He's (Paxton) under the new rookie contract. Not a big hit. We can let him ride the pine for a while until we know what we have in Siemian - if anything.

I don't think we need to even consider getting rid of him yet.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I see nothing wrong with letting Lynch ride the pine for two years. The plan was to let him ride for at least one year anyway

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Last night, both LT and Deion had nothing but praise for Trevor. This morning, the same from Mariucci

[BroncoJoe]

It's hardly a "dilemma".

[slim]

If he is the future, what would we take for Lynch? Surely we aren't going to spend a first round pick (and also whatever it took to move up to acquire him) to be a backup player, nonetheless a QB who we hope will never play.

If he isn't the future, what point do they move past Simien and put Lynch in. That could be an interesting situation especially if Simien keeps playing well like he has or gets better.

Not a bad dilemma if Denver finds the QBOTF, but a dilemma nonetheless.

First, maybe we should pump the breaks and see how the season plays out.

Second, why would it be a dilemma? If you find a franchise QB in round 7 and a backup QB in round 1, why is that a problem? It's no different than finding a franchise QB in round 1 and a back up in round 7.

[MOtorboat]

First, maybe we should pump the breaks and see how the season plays out.

Second, why would it be a dilemma? If you find a franchise QB in round 7 and a backup QB in round 1, why is that a problem? It's no different than finding a franchise QB in round 1 and a back up in round 7.

I want to hug you right now.

[BroncoWave]

First, maybe we should pump the breaks and see how the season plays out.

Second, why would it be a dilemma? If you find a franchise QB in round 7 and a backup QB in round 1, why is that a problem? It's no different than finding a franchise QB in round 1 and a back up in round 7.

Agreed. As I've said in other threads, I couldn't care less where a guy was drafted once the games starts, the best guy needs to be on the field period. I still hope Lynch surpasses Siemian some point this year though, because that would mean he is ready to go and better than Siemian in the coaches eyes, which would be great for the Broncos. But if Siemian plays so well that Lynch can't get on the field, that's great for the Broncos too.

We're definitely fortunate that Siemian is playing as well as he is, it makes the coaches not have to rush Lynch out before he is ready. I still think Siemian is a little inconsistent for my taste and doesn't have the upside Lynch does, but I'm not going to complain while we're winning games.

[Tned]

If he is the future, what would we take for Lynch? Surely we aren't going to spend a first round pick (and also whatever it took to move up to acquire him) to be a backup player, nonetheless a QB who we hope will never play.

If he isn't the future, what point do they move past Simien and put Lynch in. That could be an interesting situation especially if Simien keeps playing well like he has or gets better.

Not a bad dilemma if Denver finds the QBOTF, but a dilemma nonetheless.

In general, probably as long as they are fielding a championship caliber team and believe they can win with Siemian, they aren't going to be quick to move on to Lynch. As long as winning is in the cards, they they aren't going to go to Lynch until he gives them a better chance to win.

[Northman]

If it turns out both Siemien and Lynch are able starters than the scenario is no different than what the Chargers faced in Brees and Rivers. Denver will just make a decision on who they keep and move forward. Easy as that.

[slim]

If it turns out both Siemien and Lynch are able starters than the scenario is no different than what the Chargers faced in Brees and Rivers. Denver will just make a decision on who they keep and move forward. Easy as that.

Hopefully they make a better decision than SD did :hi:

[Northman]

Hopefully they make a better decision than SD did :hi:

For what its worth Rivers has still managed to keep SD competitive so despite not quite getting to the big game and winning a ring he has panned out pretty well for them. They have had a lot of other problems throughout the years that have stalled their ability to win a championship. Brees managed to catch lightning in a bottle in NO.

[BroncoJoe]

Brees SB Wins: 1
Rivers SB Wins: 0

Advantage, Brees.

[Rick]

Real question is when does Trevor's contract expire.

We have 5 years on a low contract for Paxton.

Whenever Trevor's contract talks come up is when decisions about Paxton or Trevor will be had, so long as Trevor is still playing well.

[ShaneFalco]

https://media.giphy.com/media/WiM5K1e9MtEic/giphy.gif

[BigDaddyBronco]

If it turns out both Siemien and Lynch are able starters than the scenario is no different than what the Chargers faced in Brees and Rivers. Denver will just make a decision on who they keep and move forward. Easy as that.

That sounds like a good problem to have.

[Tned]

Real question is when does Trevor's contract expire.

We have 5 years on a low contract for Paxton.

Whenever Trevor's contract talks come up is when decisions about Paxton or Trevor will be had, so long as Trevor is still playing well.

He's a free agent in 2019, but in 2018 the Broncos will be on the hook for a pay increase.


I think his 2018 salary will be about $700k.

[slim]

Rivers DB quotient: 100%
Brees DB quotient: 1%

[iLands]

"If I put this up, are you going to make a play?"

The balls of this guy to say that to a vet like DT.

EDIT: Worthless stat of the day - Three Broncos QBs have started 3-0. Guess which 3? :3

[Rick]

Even at 700k, not a problem.

If he keep playing well then they will have a 8-12 million dollar question because if he is still a 85-95 rating guy, at his age, he will be paid by someone. Is that someone us?

Looking at Brock's deal, hell could even be more than 8-12.

At contract end, if he is playing like a starter, do you pay him starter money or let him go and anoint Lynch.

[VonDoom]

He's a free agent in 2019, but in 2018 the Broncos will be on the hook for a pay increase.


I think his 2019 salary will be about $700k.

You mean his 2018 salary, right? Because that's listed as $718K on Over the Cap.

I think he doesn't see the end of this contract either way at this point. We'll have to see how Lynch progresses, but if he's truly "the future", someone will trade a nice pick for Siemian. And if Siemian is our guy long term, his agent will probably want to negotiate a raise early, a la Tyrod Taylor.

[Rick]

Only way I don't wait on the decision until 2019 is 1: Simien is Brady like and we know this is the guy for the future period, or 2: Lynch is looking to be a bust.

If Simien is looking like a Brady, extend him early.

If both are looking good I say keep them both until 2019, price is right and it is a good problem to have with 2 starting caliber QBs.

In 2019, if both look competent then decide if you want to try and pony up for Simien or just let him go and give the reins to Lynch.

[Tned]

You mean his 2018 salary, right? Because that's listed as $718K on Over the Cap.

I think he doesn't see the end of this contract either way at this point. We'll have to see how Lynch progresses, but if he's truly "the future", someone will trade a nice pick for Siemian. And if Siemian is our guy long term, his agent will probably want to negotiate a raise early, a la Tyrod Taylor.

Yes, I meant '18. I was trying to be witty with the pay increase and got my years crossed. Free agent in '19.

[BroncoWave]

Brees SB Wins: 1
Rivers SB Wins: 0

Advantage, Brees.

This is a pretty overly simplistic view of things. That stat doesn't necessarily mean the Chargers made the wrong call. If Manning doesn't throw that awful pick 6 then neither of them are sitting with a ring right now.

[Northman]

This is a pretty overly simplistic view of things. That stat doesn't necessarily mean the Chargers made the wrong call. If Manning doesn't throw that awful pick 6 then neither of them are sitting with a ring right now.


Yea, i get it. Brees is the better QB of the two but lets not pretend that Rivers is Kyle Orton here. lmao

[I Eat Staples]

Brees is the better QB, but not because he has a Superbowl and Rivers doesn't. Rivers has been good, but Brees has been one of the top QBs in the league over the past years.

That said, I doubt anyone would have anticipated that when SD let him go. Brees wasn't even that good on the Chargers. The way he took off after joining NO was pretty much unprecedented.

[BroncoWave]

Brees is the better QB, but not because he has a Superbowl and Rivers doesn't. Rivers has been good, but Brees has been one of the top QBs in the league over the past years.

That said, I doubt anyone would have anticipated that when SD let him go. Brees wasn't even that good on the Chargers. The way he took off after joining NO was pretty much unprecedented.

He also had the shoulder injury. At the time, Rivers seemed like the obvious choice and even though Brees has had a better career since then, it's not like the Chargers lost out big time. If Lynch and Siemian wind up being Rivers and Brees, I will happily take either one.

[Simple Jaded]

It's hardly a "dilemma".

How about.......quandary? Would you say we have a Quandary?

[MOtorboat]

How about.......quandary? Would you say we have a Quandary?

We don't have anything yet.

[underrated29]

"If I put this up, are you going to make a play?"

The balls of this guy to say that to a vet like DT.

EDIT: Worthless stat of the day - Three Broncos QBs have started 3-0. Guess which 3? :3


Orton, elway, Peyton, siemian

[BroncoWave]

Orton, elway, Peyton, siemian

That's 4. You are apparently as good at math as you are at evaluating football talent. :D

[BroncoWave]

Peyton started 2-1, we lost to Atlanta in his third game.

[underrated29]

That's 4. You are apparently as good at math as you are at evaluating football talent. :D

We know Orton did. We know siemian did. We know elway did and we know Peyton did. So.....what dos your math say about that?


Peyton started 2-1, we lost to Atlanta in his third game.

He did. He also went like 11-0 two years ago. The question did not state the players first year

[BroncoWave]

We know Orton did. We know siemian did. We know elway did and we know Peyton did. So.....what dos your math say about that?



He did. He also went like 11-0 two years ago. The question did not state the players first year

His question clearly stated only 3 have done it. And I think it was pretty obvious the implication was 3-0 to start a Broncos career.

[underrated29]

His question clearly stated only 3 have done it. And I think it was pretty obvious the implication was 3-0 to start a Broncos career.

How is that obvious when it does not say it? If that is the case- delete Peyton. If it's not, answer this my young padawon.
How many times have the Broncos had a qb throw a td?

[BroncoWave]

How is that obvious when it does not say it? If that is the case- delete Peyton. If it's not, answer this my young padawon.
How many times have the Broncos had a qb throw a td?
I guess I'm just that good at understand context. :D

[MOtorboat]

I guess I'm just that good at understand context. :D

It was quite obviously implied.

[underrated29]

Yea it was.
Damnit.

I just went back and looked

[Simple Jaded]

We don't have anything yet.

Would you say we have a potential quandary?

[MOtorboat]

Would you say we have a potential quandary?

Conceivably.

[Simple Jaded]

Conceivably.

I knew it!

[MOtorboat]

I knew it!

9498

[Bronco4ever]

Cutler and the Broncos also started 3-0 in the 2008 season.

[Timmy!]

Ahem. Captain here.

Peyton actually started 1-2 as a Bronco....and we were 2-3 and down 24-0 in San Diego at halftime before Peyton went full Peyton and lead a comeback...then proceeded to win 10 in a row before Rahim ******* Moore handed the game to the Ravens in the playoffs.

[Joel]

He's a free agent in 2019, but in 2018 the Broncos will be on the hook for a pay increase.

I think his 2018 salary will be about $700k.
So we've got till at least the end of next year, and maybe a year longer, to make a decision on both QBs. He's due $15K more than the rookie minimum next year and $30K above it in 2018, so his agent doesn't even have the leverage to force our hand with a hold out unless Lynch is a massive and immediately obvious bust (in which case we'll probably try to do a big extension in hopes Siemian can be our franchise guy, so no hold out.) Just for fun:

For all the invocations of Maddens old "if you have two QBs..." rule, a team has gone all the way to the SUPER BOWL while alternating QBs between games and, on at least one occasion, between PLAYS: Craig Morton and Roger Staubach for the 1970 Cowboys. They did lose, but only by a walk-off FG, to a Colts team that had been alternating Unitas and Morrall the same way since SB III.

[VonDoom]

https://twitter.com/SportsCenter/status/780798748779773953

[slim]

Ahem. Captain here.

Peyton actually started 1-2 as a Bronco....and we were 2-3 and down 24-0 in San Diego at halftime before Peyton went full Peyton and lead a comeback...then proceeded to win 10 in a row before Rahim ******* Moore handed the game to the Ravens in the playoffs.

Oh man, UR was in full retard mode in this thread.

[underrated29]

Oh man, UR was in full retard mode in this thread.


I wasnt even drunk

[slim]

I wasnt even drunk

Well, at least you were right about Hillman. They can never take that away from you.

[Buff]

Ahem. Captain here.

Peyton actually started 1-2 as a Bronco....and we were 2-3 and down 24-0 in San Diego at halftime before Peyton went full Peyton and lead a comeback...then proceeded to win 10 in a row before Rahim ******* Moore handed the game to the Ravens in the playoffs.

That Brandon Stokley TD in the corner of the endzone to go ahead in SD is still one of my favorite Manning moments as a Bronco.

[Valar Morghulis]

That Brandon Stokley TD in the corner of the endzone to go ahead in SD is still one of my favorite Manning moments as a Bronco.

I Loved the little jump over that sd player in the pocket

[underrated29]

I Loved the little jump over that sd player in the pocket



And his smirk afterwards....Like holy shit that worked!

[NightTrainLayne]

That Brandon Stokley TD in the corner of the endzone to go ahead in SD is still one of my favorite Manning moments as a Bronco.

That was one of the most amazing passes I have ever seen. That's when I knew Manning was still great post-injury.

[TXBRONC]

Peyton started 2-1, we lost to Atlanta in his third game.

Denver started 1-2. They beat the Steelers at home, then lost to the Falcons and the Texans.

[Northman]

I still love the Manning bootleg in Dallas. Fooled EVERYONE including the camera guy.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fw9ubs1A6kU

[NightTrainLayne]

I still love the Manning bootleg in Dallas. Fooled EVERYONE including the camera guy.

I was there. It was a thing of beauty from above. Everyone else on the field was stupified.

[TXBRONC]

I wasnt even drunk

As if you need that as an excuse.

[Poet]

He can develop into a good player, and has had a really good year up to this point. All Qb's have picks dropped. It's easy to see that, but harder to see when a WR drops a ball (we debate over what a drop is all the time) or when a receiver causes a pick because they ran the wrong route. I love the point, though, because it requires us to think more critically about it.

I honestly think his best game was against the Panthers. That defense is gross, and the first pick in that game was a fluke.

Siemian has played as the game has been called. Last week a lot of posters noted that the Broncos offense hasn't called a ton of plays for big passing yards. Cincinnati's game plan required us to throw the deep ball, and he did. He's slowly reading more and more of the field, and getting more aggressive chances with the passing game. He's developing. While I suspect he's always going to be a system QB, Tom Brady is a system QB.

[VonDoom]

I don't think I saw this in any of the many Siemian threads, so I figured I'd put it here. Dominique Foxworth has a great breakdown of Siemian's performance from Sunday:



Despite all of the quotes from the Broncos about how composed and poised Siemian is, at times he was nervous in the pocket. With no immediate pressure, he checked the ball down to the running back before giving the play time to develop. Though Siemian checked down a lot in this game, one pass in the first half sticks out in my mind. The tight end, running a deep route, was just about to clear the linebackers and be open for a 20-yard gain and Siemian, with no pressure in his face, threw the short pass to the back. He also prematurely scrambled out of the pocket when he could have bought more time by stepping up.


In the second half, Siemian got another chance to hit that tight end in an over route versus cover 3, and he did. Maybe the miss in the first half was eating at him or the coaches brought it to his attention. Either way, that type of in-game improvement is remarkable.


Much like the presidential candidates on the debate stage Monday night, Siemian’s negatives are too glaring to ignore. But he has shown flashes of excellence. And with the supporting cast that he has at receiver and on defense, he may not need anything more than flashes. Siemian has got my vote … for now.

http://theundefeated.com/features/trevor-siemian-showed-flashes-of-brilliance/

[Buff]

As I mentioned in another thread - his best strength might be the speed of his decision making. When young QBs struggle it's usually because they aren't reacting fast enough, they hold the ball a beat too long, they don't release it quickly enough...

So I'm perfectly OK with Siemian's mistakes being that he's making decisions too quickly and not being patient enough. That patience will come with experience - in the meantime, it's more important that he gets the ball out quickly and avoids negative plays to keep us on schedule and let us win games with our defense.

[Canmore]

As I mentioned in another thread - his best strength might be the speed of his decision making. When young QBs struggle it's usually because they aren't reacting fast enough, they hold the ball a beat too long, they don't release it quickly enough...

So I'm perfectly OK with Siemian's mistakes being that he's making decisions too quickly and not being patient enough. That patience will come with experience - in the meantime, it's more important that he gets the ball out quickly and avoids negative plays to keep us on schedule and let us win games with our defense.

I totally agree with this. When Trevor missed his first pass high I said "This boy is pumped up." I felt he was nervous, and he settled done as the game wore on.

[tripp]

Plain and simple.... he's good enough for what we want to do. And that's perfectly fine. He's not great, he's not terrible, he's comfortably average.

He's in a position that I think 90% of the QB's in the NFL would kill to be in. Star studded defense that gives you the luxury of not having to score on most drives, hell, they will score for you. 2x #1 receivers, with a top 10 RB.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I totally agree with this. When Trevor missed his first pass high I said "This boy is pumped up." I felt he was nervous, and he settled done as the game wore on.

First road game, I think the jitters were to be expected.

[Cugel]

Yeah, as good and poised as he's looked, I don't think Siemians promising start's sustainable: It's more likely DCs gain enough game tape to figure out how to stop him than that he takes an impressive debut to the next level of permanent starter. If only because his protection's still spotty and the right side of our line's still a TDB mess that struggles to provide him either protection OR run support.

If he pulls it off anyway though, great; there'd be nothing wrong with Siemian becoming "the next Tom Brady" in the sense of a late round QB who steals a first round franchise QBs job and goes on to a HoF career (again, minus the cheating.)

Obviously many QBs over the years have had a great game without having a great career, so "next Tom Brady" is still not a good bet. If it happens, fine. It would be the biggest scouting failure since Tom Brady though, since a number of NFL scouts insisted that they didn't even scout him.

I think the epitome of stupid I've heard is from 104.3 The Fan where they were saying that if Siemian continued to play well they might trade Paxton Lynch. Uh, no.

Because you're only 1 QB hit away from needing a quality backup on any given play. You don't see the Patriots getting rid of Garapolo even though Tom Brady insists he's going to play another 4 years (including this one).

[tripp]

Obviously many QBs over the years have had a great game without having a great career, so "next Tom Brady" is still not a good bet. If it happens, fine. It would be the biggest scouting failure since Tom Brady though, since a number of NFL scouts insisted that they didn't even scout him.

I think the epitome of stupid I've heard is from 104.3 The Fan where they were saying that if Siemian continued to play well they might trade Paxton Lynch. Uh, no.

Because you're only 1 QB hit away from needing a quality backup on any given play. You don't see the Patriots getting rid of Garapolo even though Tom Brady insists he's going to play another 4 years (including this one).

I refuse to listen to that station purely because of D-mac. He is literally the worst.

[TXBRONC]

I totally agree with this. When Trevor missed his first pass high I said "This boy is pumped up." I felt he was nervous, and he settled done as the game wore on.

I figured he was a little nevous because it was his first start on the road.

[NightTrainLayne]

I refuse to listen to that station purely because of D-mac. He is literally the worst.

I see Dmac commenting on Twitter a bunch today that we need to get Lynch snaps now in order to develop him. Uh, no. Now, at some point he will need live game snaps. But week 4 while Siemian and the defense are playing well? No.

Ride the bench this year, battle for the #1 spot in training camp next year. Whoever loses that battle is either a premier back-up QB, or a trading chip. No need to get Lynch in-game snaps right now. That doesn't do anyone any good imo.

[TXBRONC]

I see Dmac commenting on Twitter a bunch today that we need to get Lynch snaps now in order to develop him. Uh, no. Now, at some point he will need live game snaps. But week 4 while Siemian and the defense are playing well? No.

Ride the bench this year, battle for the #1 spot in training camp next year. Whoever loses that battle is either a premier back-up QB, or a trading chip. No need to get Lynch in-game snaps right now. That doesn't do anyone any good imo.

Maybe late in season if Denver has a play seating all locked, but more likely that won't happen unless Siemian gets injured.

[CoachChaz]

Plain and simple.... he's good enough for what we want to do. And that's perfectly fine. He's not great, he's not terrible, he's comfortably average.

He's in a position that I think 90% of the QB's in the NFL would kill to be in. Star studded defense that gives you the luxury of not having to score on most drives, hell, they will score for you. 2x #1 receivers, with a top 10 RB.

This parlays into my opinion perfectly. Siemian is the guy you ride while you have horses around him to help him win games. Lynch is the guy you groom to be the guy that can also win games for you. The true testament of where Siemian is will be when the defense has one of those games where they need the QB to bail them out for a change. Lynch has that skill set...I'm not convinced Siemian does.

[Canmore]

This parlays into my opinion perfectly. Siemian is the guy you ride while you have horses around him to help him win games. Lynch is the guy you groom to be the guy that can also win games for you. The true testament of where Siemian is will be when the defense has one of those games where they need the QB to bail them out for a change. Lynch has that skill set...I'm not convinced Siemian does.

I think that has yet to be determined. How many first round QBs bust or just turnout mediocre?

[Mike]

This parlays into my opinion perfectly. Siemian is the guy you ride while you have horses around him to help him win games. Lynch is the guy you groom to be the guy that can also win games for you. The true testament of where Siemian is will be when the defense has one of those games where they need the QB to bail them out for a change. Lynch has that skill set...I'm not convinced Siemian does.

Siemian aside, I don't know enough about Lynch to come to that conclusion and certainly didn't see enough of him in the preseason to get there. For me, Lynch is as big a question mark as Siemian is.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Siemian aside, I don't know enough about Lynch to come to that conclusion and certainly didn't see enough of him in the preseason to get there. For me, Lynch is as big a question mark as Siemian is.
Siemian was much more consistent in the preseason. He demonstrated a command of the offense, for the most part.

[CoachChaz]

I think that has yet to be determined. How many first round QBs bust or just turnout mediocre?


Siemian aside, I don't know enough about Lynch to come to that conclusion and certainly didn't see enough of him in the preseason to get there. For me, Lynch is as big a question mark as Siemian is.

Keep in mind I said he has the skills...not that he has shown the ability to exercise them. I dont think it takes a scout to understand that Lynch has a stronger arm, better escapability and more raw physical tools than Siemian does. I sgree that we havent seen these all come to life in the short time we've known him, but his ceiling is certainly higher and if he and Kubiak can harness his potential, he has a better chance of being a top QB than Siemian might.

Yes...Lynch could be a bust...but so could Siemian once teams get some game film on him and figure some things out.

[tripp]

This parlays into my opinion perfectly. Siemian is the guy you ride while you have horses around him to help him win games. Lynch is the guy you groom to be the guy that can also win games for you. The true testament of where Siemian is will be when the defense has one of those games where they need the QB to bail them out for a change. Lynch has that skill set...I'm not convinced Siemian does.

Week 2 he needed defense to bail him out, otherwise I'm fairly certain we lose against the Colts had it not been for the pick 6 by Talib. Week 3, first half he played like he did in week 2, however the second half of the Bengals game he played a lot better, and we were fortunate enough to convert low % plays into TD's, won't happen all the time which is why I'm not singing his praises just yet. With all that being said, he's doing a good enough job to win, and that's all you want at the moment.

We're in a great spot with a competent QB who is winning us games, while grooming a QB that could POTENTIALLY be the QB of the future. I won't hate it one bit if Siemian turns out to be that guy, but still need to see quite a bit from him to think that.

[Joel]

Keep in mind I said he has the skills...not that he has shown the ability to exercise them.
That's it in a nutshell. Siemian's FAR more "NFL ready" than Lynch, but no amount of coaching can make him 6'7" 245. And coaching CAN provide Lynch with Siemians calm pocket patience, tight throwing motion, quick release and defensive recognition. A lot depends on Lynchs intelligence and maturity, but if he has THOSE abilities along with his great physical innate qualities, he'll probably replace Siemian eventually. All skills being equal, Lynch has the athleticism to do more with them.


Yes...Lynch could be a bust...but so could Siemian once teams get some game film on him and figure some things out.
Also very true; Siemian's not sneaking up on anyone anymore, and Kubiak's certainly produced his share of limited one-dimensional one-year wonders. Coaching can only help him so much before he must do the rest on his own, another reason I'd bet on Lynchs greater natural ability in the long run.

It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world if Siemian faltered down the stretch and Lynch came on strong to start 2017. If it looks like Siemian's flaming out, fewer and less interested teams will bid for him when his contract ends. So we could end up with a very skilled average talent as the backup to a highly skilled AND talented franchise QB. I could definitely live with that. :)

[NightTrainLayne]

Keep in mind I said he has the skills...not that he has shown the ability to exercise them. I dont think it takes a scout to understand that Lynch has a stronger arm, better escapability and more raw physical tools than Siemian does. I sgree that we havent seen these all come to life in the short time we've known him, but his ceiling is certainly higher and if he and Kubiak can harness his potential, he has a better chance of being a top QB than Siemian might.

Yes...Lynch could be a bust...but so could Siemian once teams get some game film on him and figure some things out.

Yesterday afternoon on Sirius/XM NFL, Pat Kirwin and Jim Miller were having this conversation.

Miller, who is the Chicago Bears Radio guy said that he was really impressed with Lynch's athleticism in our pre-season game. He said something along the lines of, "Lynch didn't have a clue what he was doing out there, he's so raw, but there is no doubt that he was the best athlete on the field when he was out there. His athletic ability is off the charts."

Kirwin agreed. It's just going to take some time for him to learn how to function in Kubiak's offense, and mature. We've got time.

[TXBRONC]

Yesterday afternoon on Sirius/XM NFL, Pat Kirwin and Jim Miller were having this conversation.

Miller, who is the Chicago Bears Radio guy said that he was really impressed with Lynch's athleticism in our pre-season game. He said something along the lines of, "Lynch didn't have a clue what he was doing out there, he's so raw, but there is no doubt that he was the best athlete on the field when he was out there. His athletic ability is off the charts."

Kirwin agreed. It's just going to take some time for him to learn how to function in Kubiak's offense, and mature. We've got time.

That was first preseason game of the year. Completey clueless? I doubt that but certain his learning curve would have still substantial at that point.

[Hawgdriver]

This parlays into my opinion perfectly. Siemian is the guy you ride while you have horses around him to help him win games. Lynch is the guy you groom to be the guy that can also win games for you. The true testament of where Siemian is will be when the defense has one of those games where they need the QB to bail them out for a change. Lynch has that skill set...I'm not convinced Siemian does.

I'll give #13 more credit than that. The games are close going into the 4th Q and the Broncos have an excellent 3d down percentage. #13 has bailed the team out on a lot of 3d downs, letting the D rest.

I'm as wait and see about #13 as anyone, but these games so far have been a lot like the "one of those games" you describe imo.

[Canmore]

I'll give #13 more credit than that. The games are close going into the 4th Q and the Broncos have an excellent 3d down percentage. #13 has bailed the team out on a lot of 3d downs, letting the D rest.

I'm as wait and see about #13 as anyone, but these games so far have been a lot like the "one of those games" you describe imo.

There is a shiny new toy in the closet. I think the toy we are playing with now shines just fine.

[Valar Morghulis]

There is a shiny new toy in the closet. I think the toy we are playing with now shines just fine.

Lol, this is it for me.

I don't know if he will be a hof qb, but I am not desperate to replace him this week either.

But speak to me again when he is 0 for 5 in the first quarter on Sunday.......lmao

[Canmore]

Lol, this is it for me.

I don't know if he will be a hof qb, but I am not desperate to replace him this week either.

But speak to me again when he is 0 for 5 in the first quarter on Sunday.......lmao

You always make me laugh.

[TXBRONC]

There is a shiny new toy in the closet. I think the toy we are playing with now shines just fine.

I don't know if he's the long term answer but I do recoginze he's played very well the first three weeks of the season.

[Tned]

I don't know if he's the long term answer but I do recoginze he's played very well the first three weeks of the season.

Really hard to know if he's the long term answer, but it's pretty clear he gives the Broncos the best chance to win right now.

[Northman]

You cant determine after just 3 weeks if a player is a long term answer.

[Valar Morghulis]

You cant determine after just 3 weeks if a player is a long term answer.

No but I think it is easier to tell when they are not the answer, the fact we don't know that either is encouraging!

[Northman]

Siemian aside, I don't know enough about Lynch to come to that conclusion and certainly didn't see enough of him in the preseason to get there. For me, Lynch is as big a question mark as Siemian is.

Absolutely. We dont know jack about Lynch right now to determine if he is a future star or not.

[Northman]

Im baffled as to why anyone would give this kid a rash of shit after 3 games, especially when the team is 3-0 and he just threw 4 TD passes against one of the better teams in the NFL. I just cant understand the negativity right now. So strange.

[BroncoJoe]

Im baffled as to why anyone would give this kid a rash of shit after 3 games, especially when the team is 3-0 and he just threw 4 TD passes against one of the better teams in the NFL. I just cant understand the negativity right now. So strange.

Not only that, but we're the 2nd highest scoring team in the league right now with 84 points. Only the Chargers (87) have scored more points.

[BroncoWave]

Not only that, but we're the 2nd highest scoring team in the league right now with 84 points. Only the Chargers (87) have scored more points.

Not to take anything away from Siemian but like 2 or 3 of those touchdowns were scored by the defense. So I don't know how accurate it would be to paint our offense as the second best in football.

[ShaneFalco]

Hes not the hero we deserve, but the hero we need

[BroncoWave]

Not to take anything away from Siemian but like 2 or 3 of those touchdowns were scored by the defense. So I don't know how accurate it would be to paint our offense as the second best in football.

As a counterpoint to my own point, we are currently 10th in offensive DVOA, so still not bad at all.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamoff

[BroncoJoe]

Not to take anything away from Siemian but like 2 or 3 of those touchdowns were scored by the defense. So I don't know how accurate it would be to paint our offense as the second best in football.

It's a team sport. Two TD's from the defense so far. I'm not going to run the numbers, but it's safe to say we're scoring points on offense.

[Bronco4ever]

It's hard to say how good Siemian is atm, but it's hard to argue with the results thus far. In most people's minds, he's probably exceeded expectations for a rather tough few opening weeks to the season. Perhaps the expectations for him will change a bit with the early season results, but there's still not a huge difference between Week 1 and Week 4 Siemian, just 180 minutes of game play.

What I've seen of Siemian though is very good. The guy is smart, composed, has a good arm, and has enough athleticism to avoid the rush and take off when he needs to. Even if we see some regression, TS is young enough (and intelligent enough) to learn from his mistakes. I'm excited to see his progress from here on out, maybe with the bar set a little bit higher, but with the understanding that he's still young and he's bound to make some mistakes here and there.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

It's a team sport. Two TD's from the defense so far. I'm not going to run the numbers, but it's safe to say we're scoring points on offense.

Sunday's point total was all offensive. Additionally, the offense was responsible for 20 points in each of its first two games, on its own.

[TXBRONC]

Im baffled as to why anyone would give this kid a rash of shit after 3 games, especially when the team is 3-0 and he just threw 4 TD passes against one of the better teams in the NFL. I just cant understand the negativity right now. So strange.

Do you think giving him a rash and shit because that isn't my intent?

[TXBRONC]

Not to take anything away from Siemian but like 2 or 3 of those touchdowns were scored by the defense. So I don't know how accurate it would be to paint our offense as the second best in football.

The Chargers defense isn't as good as Denver's but they also scored a defensive touchdown and scored two.

[BroncoWave]

Who is giving Siemian a rash of shit? I haven't seen it. I've seen (and given) fair criticism of him, but I haven't seen anyone overly bash him.

[slim]

Who is giving Siemian a rash of shit? I haven't seen it. I've seen (and given) fair criticism of him, but I haven't seen anyone overly bash him.

I was wondering the same thing. Most of the comments have been pretty positive.

[Northman]

I just think some of the criticisms of Siemian in this thread are coming across very petty and nit picky. I dont think anyone would of ever guessed we would be 3-0 right now going into the season with the QB's we have.

[Tned]

Im baffled as to why anyone would give this kid a rash of shit after 3 games, especially when the team is 3-0 and he just threw 4 TD passes against one of the better teams in the NFL. I just cant understand the negativity right now. So strange.

Outside of politics, is there anything more polarizing than quarterbacks? As long as I've been on Broncos forums, this has been the case.

I totally agree with you.

[TXBRONC]

It's a team sport. Two TD's from the defense so far. I'm not going to run the numbers, but it's safe to say we're scoring points on offense.

15 points have come directly from the defense. So the offense has been responsible for 69 of the 84 points scored.

Or do the extra and the two point conversion get credited to the offense? If so the offense is responsible for 72 of the 84 points scored.

[BroncoWave]

I just think some of the criticisms of Siemian in this thread are coming across very petty and nit picky. I dont think anyone would of ever guessed we would be 3-0 right now going into the season with the QB's we have.

So we can't nitpick? We have to be 100% positive about the guy and ignore his flaws? There's nothing wrong with having both sides of the discussion about him. It's not like anyone is yelling that he sucks or that we should bench him.

[Northman]

Outside of politics, is there anything more polarizing than quarterbacks? As long as I've been on Broncos forums, this has been the case.

I totally agree with you.

I used to think it was quite overblown about how much the QB position amongst Bronco fans gets criticized but i guess not. lol

[Northman]

So we can't nitpick? We have to be 100% positive about the guy and ignore his flaws? There's nothing wrong with having both sides of the discussion about him. It's not like anyone is yelling that he sucks or that we should bench him.

You can do what you want, im just responding to that criticism. The forum is working exactly the way it should.

[BroncoWave]

You can do what you want, im just responding to that criticism. The forum is working exactly the way it should.

I guess I'm just not seeing this over the top criticism that you are. As far as Broncos quarterbacks go, he has been treated exceedingly well. Definitely way more positive than negative. And like you said, the negatives have mostly been nitpicking. I haven't seen anyone flat out bash the guy, unless there are posts I'm missing.

[Northman]

I guess I'm just not seeing this over the top criticism that you are. As far as Broncos quarterbacks go, he has been treated exceedingly well. Definitely way more positive than negative. And like you said, the negatives have mostly been nitpicking. I haven't seen anyone flat out bash the guy, unless there are posts I'm missing.

For me i just cant see how anyone would want to nitpick a guy who has only 3 starts in the NFL. It just seems so odd to me.

[EastCoastBronco]

All I know is that he's moving the damn chains and resting that monster we call a defence.
That's all he needs to do.
Everything else from a 3 start QB is ******* gravy.

[Northman]

All I know is that he's moving the damn chains and resting that monster we call a defence.
That's all he needs to do.
Everything else from a 3 start QB is ******* gravy.

Considering how bad the production was from the offense last year i will gladly take what i can this year at the rate we are going. I personally have nothing to gripe about, he is playing about as expected and actually achieving more than expected as far as im concerned. Im happy as a clam at what is going on so far.

[NightTrainLayne]

Who is criticizing Siemian?

Show me who it is, and I'll take care of them North.

[Northman]

Who is criticizing Siemian?

Show me who it is, and I'll take care of them North.

No you wont, you hate me.

[NightTrainLayne]

No you wont, you hate me.

Let's take a ride together. Tell me what you know. . .

[TXBRONC]

Who is criticizing Siemian?

Show me who it is, and I'll take care of them North.

Ok Luca Brasi.

[VonDoom]

Can I interrupt the entertainment in this thread for yet another cool article on Siemian (and Elway)? This one is from The Ringer. I didn't recognize the writer's name, but he is obviously a Bronco fan (I think his normal area of expertise is MMA). Anyway:


Here’s what those of us who follow the Broncos know to be true, though, through three games this season: Siemian’s footballs are perfect spirals, neat and between the numbers. He can dink, he can dunk, he can burn Adam “Pacman” Jones on an endless loop. His poise in the pocket borders on obsessive. He knows where the chains are at all times, and he keeps his eyes up. Third downs are a choose-your-own-adventure, but there’s always a feeling he’ll pick up the first down. And here’s the kicker: He’s a cold mother******. Cold as a blade.

In his first road game this season, at Cincinnati in Week 3, he torched the Bengals late for two touchdowns, and scored a perfect 158.3 QB rating in the fourth quarter. On a key third-and-11, Siemian stepped into the huddle and said, “We’re about to go for the gusto.” He dropped back deep, a good surveyor’s length, as the Bengals came with a zone blitz. Then he let it go. The ball landed in receiver Demaryius Thomas’s hands seemingly in slow motion, like the slide down the flagpole in Super Mario Bros. when a level is cleared.

It was a 55-yard touchdown to seal the game. Cold mother******. The defense didn’t win for him in Cincy. He won the game himself



Actually, Siemian’s rapid emergence feels very Elway-esque. If you’ve followed the Broncos like I have my whole life, you see whatever it is he’s doing just kind of pop out like the Vince Lombardi Trophy in a magic picture. From 1983 to 1998, when he was Denver’s quarterback, the Broncos went 148–82–1 in the regular season in games he started, and appeared in five Super Bowls (the first three were lamentable affairs). From 2011, when he came on as a team executive, the Broncos have gone 67–26, including playoffs. In the dark years in between, from 1999 to 2010 when Elway was doing things like owning the Arena Football League’s Colorado Crush and golfing, the Broncos went 104–93. They were like other teams.

John Elway doesn’t let his team be like other teams.

With Elway around it’s a return to that old Mile High magic. Without him it was Brian Griese, Gus Frerotte, Chris Simms, and Kyle Orton, coils and bed springs — it was a handful of quick playoff exits and one delirious run with Jake Plummer to the AFC championship in the 2005 season that still feels like an aberration

https://theringer.com/trevor-siemian-saves-the-day-c5d1879a7bd8#.h7b6yzv2j

[Tned]

Sunday's point total was all offensive. Additionally, the offense was responsible for 20 points in each of its first two games, on its own.

I believe he has two fourth quarter comebacks in three games and has the best 4th quarter passer rating in the league.

Also, FWIW, what was the obscure "first" they achieved in week one, which was either the first time a defending SB champ was down more than 8 points in the opening game and came back to win, or something like that.

[Tned]

I just think some of the criticisms of Siemian in this thread are coming across very petty and nit picky. I dont think anyone would of ever guessed we would be 3-0 right now going into the season with the QB's we have.

And, with the things like the Orton comparison, or comments about picks that could have been, etc., it's clear people are comparing him to five and ten year vets and not evaluating his progress from the standpoint of just NOW, having three games of experience and still not even 100 NFL passes.

Comments about how Lynch could have done just as well, etc., are just some of the examples of the backhanded criticism, or at minimum, the lack of understanding about how good he's been playing.

[BroncoWave]

Do we need to start back up the positive-only threads? :lol:

[ShaneFalco]

****ignsubgiuosbvfgpsobpbgpbiosbgpiubsiubgosbgisog bpbsgibg

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Troy Renck ‏@TroyRenck 4h

Here's nice stat to have in backpocket as a young QB.. #Broncos Siemian leads #NFL with a 146.9 4th quarter passer rating. @DenverChannel

[Tned]

Troy Renck ‏@TroyRenck 4h

Here's nice stat to have in backpocket as a young QB.. #Broncos Siemian leads #NFL with a 146.9 4th quarter passer rating. @DenverChannel

Yep, just like Orton...

[underrated29]

****ignsubgiuosbvfgpsobpbgpbiosbgpiubsiubgosbgisog bpbsgibg

Frucking word smith

[Slick]

Comments about how Lynch could have done just as well, etc., are just some of the examples of the backhanded criticism, or at minimum, the lack of understanding about how good he's been playing.
Give me a break.

Lack of understanding? Please.

[Simple Jaded]

Do we need to start back up the positive-only threads? :lol:

I like Northwestern.

[TXBRONC]

And, with the things like the Orton comparison, or comments about picks that could have been, etc., it's clear people are comparing him to five and ten year vets and not evaluating his progress from the standpoint of just NOW, having three games of experience and still not even 100 NFL passes.

Comments about how Lynch could have done just as well, etc., are just some of the examples of the backhanded criticism, or at minimum, the lack of understanding about how good he's been playing.

Orton was a mentally inferior quarterback.

I was saying that Lynch could start in offense right away back during camp and preseason. I haven't said it as way criticizing Siemian, I've said it because of offensive system itself and Kubiak.

[Simple Jaded]

Kyle Lrton was a chickenshit bed wetter to his core, if the comparison is a boring check down artist I like a Brian Griese comp better.

Orton just seems needlessly mean spirited.

[Canmore]

Kyle Lrton was a chickenshit bed wetter to his core, if the comparison is a boring check down artist I like a Brian Griese comp better.

Orton just seems needlessly mean spirited.

He had one redeeming quality, Jack Daniels.

[TXBRONC]

Kyle Lrton was a chickenshit bed wetter to his core, if the comparison is a boring check down artist I like a Brian Griese comp better.

Orton just seems needlessly mean spirited.

I guess Orton isn't on your list of people you send Christmas cards to. Color me shocked. :shocked:

[Simple Jaded]

I guess Orton isn't on your list of people you send Christmas cards to. Color me shocked. :shocked:

I wasn't being too vague I hope.

[Simple Jaded]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000712303/article/why-young-qbs-are-thriving-in-2016-odell-beckham-jrs-antics

[TXBRONC]

I wasn't being too vague I hope.

You vague? Not in this life.

[Tned]

Lol, this is it for me.

I don't know if he will be a hof qb, but I am not desperate to replace him this week either.

But speak to me again when he is 0 for 5 in the first quarter on Sunday.......lmao

Well, I guess we have at least another week before having to worry about this, as he started 4-5 with a TD.

[TXBRONC]

Well, I guess we have at least another week before having to worry about this, as he started 4-5 with a TD.

My biggest concern for Siemian is the offensive line keeping him upright.

[Tned]

My biggest concern for Siemian is offensive line keeping him upright.

Ironic that prior to this week, it was one of the things he was getting the most national press about.

[DenBronx]

Valar when are you going to start an is #12 any good thread?

[TXBRONC]

Ironic that prior to this week, it was one of the things he was getting the most national press about.

I haven't been paying much attention to the national press of late.

[Tned]

I haven't been paying much attention to the national press of late.

I'm off my mobile, so I'll elaborate. Siemian's quick release and pocket presence despite poor pass blocking have been getting some of the most praise by the talking heads and sports writers. Yes, he had three sacks, and I want to see what it looks like once the coach's film comes up on NFL Game pass, but overall he's been doing a good job of moving coverage, changing plays, quick release, throwing ball away, etc.

[Valar Morghulis]

Valar when are you going to start an is #12 any good thread?

Lol, I nearly did it at half time!

[DenBronx]

Valar when are you going to start an is #12 any good thread?

Lol, I nearly did it at half time!

Someone beat you to it.

#slippin

[Tned]

These tidbits from Broncos media relations :



Denver QB Trevor Siemian is the first quarterback to begin his NFL career with four consecutive wins as a member of the Broncos.
The Broncos have posted an NFL-best 150.2 passer rating in the fourth quarter this season—32.9 points higher than the league's No. 2 team.

[Joel]

These tidbits from Broncos media relations :



Denver QB Trevor Siemian is the first quarterback to begin his NFL career with four consecutive wins as a member of the Broncos.
The Broncos have posted an NFL-best 150.2 passer rating in the fourth quarter this season—32.9 points higher than the league's No. 2 team.


That second one shows how misleading stats (especially a small amount of them) can be though, because it's mainly due to:

1) Siemians jaw-dropping 4th @Cincy, when he hit all but ONE of ELEVEN passes for 164 yds, 2 TDs and 0 Ints, and
2) The fact the 4ths first play vs. Carolina was the FINAL one of an 8-play 78 yd TD drive.

To be really "extra" fair, Siemian was a perfect 6/6 passing on that drive (plus an 11 yd scramble,) and the scoring pass itself was a respectable 25 yds, so maybe crediting the entire DRIVE to that single PLAY is justified since Siemian WAS all of it except a 10 yd CJ burst. But Cincy's the big statistical artifact:

10/11 for 164 yds, 2 TDs and 0 Ints is LITERALLY OFF THE CHART in EVERY category but Ints. That is, if the NFL Passer Rating System didn't impose an artificial floor and ceiling, Siemians 4th qtr rating vs. Cincy would be 200.6. Technically, the highest possible score in each category is 52.77... (multiplied by 3 categories=158.33...: "Perfection.") But without that cap, Siemian's completion percentage would score 62.6, his yds/att would score 76.3 and his TD% would score 61.1.

Adding our stats from the other three 4ths gets us below the cap so we get the full value of that Cincy game, which just underscores how awful our 4th qtr against Carolina was (a 58.6 rating unless we count Siemians 2PAT, and even with counting that as a 2 yd completion and 2/7 of a TD only raises his rating to 74.9.)

Rounding things out, Lynch was 4/6 for 66 yds, 1 TD and 0 Ints in the 4th last week, for a rating of 122.7. Aside from our sophomore QBs CAREER opener, we've been on fire in the 4th this year, with each of them. If we had Dallas' line, we'd go 19-0 (then again, if they had our D, so would they.)

[Tned]

There is no question that with a small sample size, stats can be misleading.

Take the first QB ever to to throw for 300 yards, 4 TDs and 0 Ints in his first road start. That only goes back as long as they've been keeping such stats, maybe half a century or more...

Lol, just kidding, but bring that up, due to the amazing way that media and fans are underplaying what Simian has done. Shit, I went back and rewatched Lynch's portion of the game, and while he was wildly inaccurate at times, and he made some ill advised throws, man you can see what could be. You can see that speed, strength and cannon arm and it's exciting.

There is no doubt that with only 3.5 games, and 3 4th quarters, some of the stats could not tell the full story. But, still, he's leading the league in 4th quarter rating by a healthy margin, and has two 4th quarter comebacks (even if as you said one of the drives started in the 3rd quarter), but every other QB in the game, every year, has those same possibilities to "skew" the stats, and still he's the one leading. Now, give him another quarter of the season, and he might and probably will come back to the pack on some of those.

The crazy thing about Siemian, and I was slow to warm up to the idea of him being the starter, is that media and many fans, made a determination about him long ago, and everything he does winds up with a "yea, but..." at the end.

The fact is that if you removed the name and draft position, and only looked at what he has done on the field, both statistically and watching it, there is nobody that would be looking at the body of work and saying, this guy isn't an NFL "starter."

Through quarter mark, 3.5 games for him, he has:



Has commentators raving about his fast release and spot on mechanics/footwork
Teammates raving about his poise and calmness in the huddle
A 99 passer rating
He has the 8th highest passer rating in the league
Weeks 2-4, third highest passer rating in the league (only behind Ryan and Prescott) of 110 or so
First Broncos QB EVER to start his career 4-0 as a starter.
Highest 4th quarter passer rating
Two fourth quarter comebacks in first three games
5th in yards per pass
2nd in 1st down % (percentage of his passes that resulted in first downs)
7th in 40+ yard plays
1st NFL QB ever to have 300+ yards passing, 4 TDs and 0 INTs in first road game
Only second Bronco EVER to have 300+ yards passing, 4 TDs and 0 INTs in a road game (Manning did it twice)
Before leaving his 4th start, he was 5/7 with a 142 rating



I can't find the stat, but his 3rd down conversion is gaudy and one of the best in the league. Anyway, I'm sure I'm leaving out a number of other stats/facts, but I think the point is made.

Take away the name and 7th round draft position, and instead pretend he was a guy drafted at the end of first or in the second round and people would be raving about Siemian right now.

[Canmore]

There is no question that with a small sample size, stats can be misleading.

Take the first QB ever to to throw for 300 yards, 4 TDs and 0 Ints in his first road start. That only goes back as long as they've been keeping such stats, maybe half a century or more...

Lol, just kidding, but bring that up, due to the amazing way that media and fans are underplaying what Simian has done. Shit, I went back and rewatched Lynch's portion of the game, and while he was wildly inaccurate at times, and he made some ill advised throws, man you can see what could be. You can see that speed, strength and cannon arm and it's exciting.

There is no doubt that with only 3.5 games, and 3 4th quarters, some of the stats could not tell the full story. But, still, he's leading the league in 4th quarter rating by a healthy margin, and has two 4th quarter comebacks (even if as you said one of the drives started in the 3rd quarter), but every other QB in the game, every year, has those same possibilities to "skew" the stats, and still he's the one leading. Now, give him another quarter of the season, and he might and probably will come back to the pack on some of those.

The crazy thing about Siemian, and I was slow to warm up to the idea of him being the starter, is that media and many fans, made a determination about him long ago, and everything he does winds up with a "yea, but..." at the end.

The fact is that if you removed the name and draft position, and only looked at what he has done on the field, both statistically and watching it, there is nobody that would be looking at the body of work and saying, this guy isn't an NFL "starter."

Through quarter mark, 3.5 games for him, he has:



Has commentators raving about his fast release and spot on mechanics/footwork
Teammates raving about his poise and calmness in the huddle
A 99 passer rating
He has the 8th highest passer rating in the league
Weeks 2-4, third highest passer rating in the league (only behind Ryan and Prescott) of 110 or so
First Broncos QB EVER to start his career 4-0 as a starter.
Highest 4th quarter passer rating
Two fourth quarter comebacks in first three games
5th in yards per pass
2nd in 1st down % (percentage of his passes that resulted in first downs)
7th in 40+ yard plays
1st NFL QB ever to have 300+ yards passing, 4 TDs and 0 INTs in first road game
Only second Bronco EVER to have 300+ yards passing, 4 TDs and 0 INTs in a road game (Manning did it twice)
Before leaving his 4th start, he was 5/7 with a 142 rating



I can't find the stat, but his 3rd down conversion is gaudy and one of the best in the league. Anyway, I'm sure I'm leaving out a number of other stats/facts, but I think the point is made.

Take away the name and 7th round draft position, and instead pretend he was a guy drafted at end of first or in the second round and people would raving about Siemian right now.




This is it in a nutshell.

[BroncoJoe]

This is it in a nutshell.

Makes you wonder if Kubiak and Elway are wondering if they made a mistake with their 1st round pick. Nothing against Lynch - he's clearly a 1st round QB - but if Siemian keeps this up, how could they pull him?

Clarification: They could have used that pick on another position, and taken a QB later.

[CoachChaz]

Makes you wonder if Kubiak and Elway are wondering if they made a mistake with their 1st round pick. Nothing against Lynch - he's clearly a 1st round QB - but if Siemian keeps this up, how could they pull him?

Clarification: They could have used that pick on another position, and taken a QB later.

Being honest, that was the preference of a few people. I know I was hoping more for a Nkemdiche/Jones/Garnett pick in the first and a Prescott in the 2nd, but being as we went the other way...I still like the upside of Lynch a lot more and I have to imagine that if a trade were proposed today that Lynch would have a higher value than Siemian in terms of return. That should say something.

Teams now have 3+ games of film on Trevor. Could get interesting moving forward.

[Canmore]

Being honest, that was the preference of a few people. I know I was hoping more for a Nkemdiche/Jones/Garnett pick in the first and a Prescott in the 2nd, but being as we went the other way...I still like the upside of Lynch a lot more and I have to imagine that if a trade were proposed today that Lynch would have a higher value than Siemian in terms of return. That should say something.

Teams now have 3+ games of film on Trevor. Could get interesting moving forward.

True and Trevor has seen 3+ real live games of NFL defenses. The sword cuts both ways.

[CoachChaz]

True and Trevor has seen 3+ real live games of NFL defenses. The sword cuts both ways.

Yeah...defenses that didn't have much film available to prepare for him.

[BroncoJoe]

Being honest, that was the preference of a few people. I know I was hoping more for a Nkemdiche/Jones/Garnett pick in the first and a Prescott in the 2nd, but being as we went the other way...I still like the upside of Lynch a lot more and I have to imagine that if a trade were proposed today that Lynch would have a higher value than Siemian in terms of return. That should say something.

Teams now have 3+ games of film on Trevor. Could get interesting moving forward.


True and Trevor has seen 3+ real live games of NFL defenses. The sword cuts both ways.

Right. I'm not sure I can buy into the "games on film" stuff with a pure passer. It's more about Kubiak's tendencies, as opposed to Siemian the QB.

IMO, of course. I've never coached football.

[CoachChaz]

Right. I'm not sure I can buy into the "games on film" stuff with a pure passer. It's more about Kubiak's tendencies, as opposed to Siemian the QB.

IMO, of course. I've never coached football.

It's both. The plays that are called in situations, as well as how the QB works in certain situations. What does he do when facing a zone...a blitz...inside pressure...outside pressure...where does he go on 3rd and long...3rd and short. Things like that. Understanding the tendencies and comfort zone of the QB so that you can plan for and call the best defensive scheme to neutralize the options. Much easier when you have film to go on.

[BroncoJoe]

Thanks, Coach. Makes sense.

[Hawgdriver]

Makes you wonder if Kubiak and Elway are wondering if they made a mistake with their 1st round pick. Nothing against Lynch - he's clearly a 1st round QB - but if Siemian keeps this up, how could they pull him?

Clarification: They could have used that pick on another position, and taken a QB later.

Maybe, but from a player equity perspective, they have two blue chip NFL QBs on the roster. Great place to be in terms of personnel flexibility and trades/deals.

[Tned]

Makes you wonder if Kubiak and Elway are wondering if they made a mistake with their 1st round pick. Nothing against Lynch - he's clearly a 1st round QB - but if Siemian keeps this up, how could they pull him?

Clarification: They could have used that pick on another position, and taken a QB later.

I doubt it. I think attempting to get a guy they think could be a franchise QB was worth making the pick. If they wind up with (and too early to say) a Brees/Rivers situation, then they say, awesome, now we can get something for one of them.


True and Trevor has seen 3+ real live games of NFL defenses. The sword cuts both ways.

I just don't get the film on QB thing. The reality is that it's the very rare exception that a QB truly have great starts, and it's really open for debate as to whether or not there are such great tendencies where film makes a big difference. It's not like a pitcher where the batter seeing the actual ball coming out of the hand a few times helps with timing.

[MOtorboat]

There is no question that with a small sample size, stats can be misleading.

Take the first QB ever to to throw for 300 yards, 4 TDs and 0 Ints in his first road start. That only goes back as long as they've been keeping such stats, maybe half a century or more...

Lol, just kidding, but bring that up, due to the amazing way that media and fans are underplaying what Simian has done. Shit, I went back and rewatched Lynch's portion of the game, and while he was wildly inaccurate at times, and he made some ill advised throws, man you can see what could be. You can see that speed, strength and cannon arm and it's exciting.

There is no doubt that with only 3.5 games, and 3 4th quarters, some of the stats could not tell the full story. But, still, he's leading the league in 4th quarter rating by a healthy margin, and has two 4th quarter comebacks (even if as you said one of the drives started in the 3rd quarter), but every other QB in the game, every year, has those same possibilities to "skew" the stats, and still he's the one leading. Now, give him another quarter of the season, and he might and probably will come back to the pack on some of those.

The crazy thing about Siemian, and I was slow to warm up to the idea of him being the starter, is that media and many fans, made a determination about him long ago, and everything he does winds up with a "yea, but..." at the end.

The fact is that if you removed the name and draft position, and only looked at what he has done on the field, both statistically and watching it, there is nobody that would be looking at the body of work and saying, this guy isn't an NFL "starter."

Through quarter mark, 3.5 games for him, he has:



Has commentators raving about his fast release and spot on mechanics/footwork
Teammates raving about his poise and calmness in the huddle
A 99 passer rating
He has the 8th highest passer rating in the league
Weeks 2-4, third highest passer rating in the league (only behind Ryan and Prescott) of 110 or so
First Broncos QB EVER to start his career 4-0 as a starter.
Highest 4th quarter passer rating
Two fourth quarter comebacks in first three games
5th in yards per pass
2nd in 1st down % (percentage of his passes that resulted in first downs)
7th in 40+ yard plays
1st NFL QB ever to have 300+ yards passing, 4 TDs and 0 INTs in first road game
Only second Bronco EVER to have 300+ yards passing, 4 TDs and 0 INTs in a road game (Manning did it twice)
Before leaving his 4th start, he was 5/7 with a 142 rating



I can't find the stat, but his 3rd down conversion is gaudy and one of the best in the league. Anyway, I'm sure I'm leaving out a number of other stats/facts, but I think the point is made.

Take away the name and 7th round draft position, and instead pretend he was a guy drafted at the end of first or in the second round and people would be raving about Siemian right now.




I guess I'm not sure where this is coming from. Everyone seems very pleased with Siemian and I've heard and read nothing but praise for him from the media. From us nitpicky fans, the only criticism I've seen is about his interceptions and a couple of bad decisions he lucked out of against Cincinnati. Both of which are legit criticisms, but minor as well as he's played.

As to that last part, if he was a first rounder, people would be much more critical. The track record of this website and generally the entire internet is not to coddle first round picks, so I'm not sure why you think that would be different with Siemian.

[Tned]

It's both. The plays that are called in situations, as well as how the QB works in certain situations. What does he do when facing a zone...a blitz...inside pressure...outside pressure...where does he go on 3rd and long...3rd and short. Things like that. Understanding the tendencies and comfort zone of the QB so that you can plan for and call the best defensive scheme to neutralize the options. Much easier when you have film to go on.

Agreed, that makes sense.

[Tned]

I guess I'm not sure where this is coming from. Everyone seems very pleased with Siemian and I've heard and read nothing but praise for him from the media. From us nitpicky fans, the only criticism I've seen is about his interceptions and a couple of bad decisions he lucked out of against Cincinnati. Both of which are legit criticisms, but minor as well as he's played.

As to that last part, if he was a first rounder, people would be much more critical. The track record of this website and generally the entire internet is not to coddle first round picks, so I'm not sure why you think that would be different with Siemian.

I'm seeing the exact opposite from most of the media, although it's slowly changing. The narrative has been wow, the Broncos defense is so good, that they can win despite the QB... and the like.

[NightTrainLayne]

I'm seeing the exact opposite from most of the media, although it's slowly changing. The narrative has been wow, the Broncos defense is so good, that they can win despite the QB... and the like.

That's not been my experience at all.

[TXBRONC]

I'm seeing the exact opposite from most of the media, although it's slowly changing. The narrative has been wow, the Broncos defense is so good, that they can win despite the QB... and the like.

Tned, I honestly have not seen that. Most of the praise has gone to the defense to be sure but, the work Siemian has done to this point hasn't gone unnoticed.

[VonDoom]

Tned, I honestly have not seen that. Most of the praise has gone to the defense to be sure but, the work Siemian has done to this point hasn't gone unnoticed.

Peter King has an article up today that says Sam Bradford is the MVP so far, but he puts Siemian as third on that list.

[Tned]

Tned, I honestly have not seen that. Most of the praise has gone to the defense to be sure but, the work Siemian has done to this point hasn't gone unnoticed.


That's not been my experience at all.

Interesting, while I've seen a small change this week (such as some love from Pat Kirwan), my experience listening to 104.3 in the morning, and a little 104.3 and 960 in the afternoon, along with ESPN articles, power ranking comments and other articles, is that the common theme has been that Trevor is doing much better than expected, Elway has a golden touch, team can win with great defense, and that Trevor has a low ceiling, and while playing good, is holding the spot for Lynch.

[MOtorboat]

Interesting, while I've seen a small change this week (such as some love from Pat Kirwan), my experience listening to 104.3 in the morning, and a little 104.3 and 960 in the afternoon, along with ESPN articles, power ranking comments and other articles, is that the common theme has been that Trevor is doing much better than expected, Elway has a golden touch, team can win with great defense, and that Trevor has a low ceiling, and while playing good, is holding the spot for Lynch.

Because that's the most likely scenario?

[Tned]

Because that's the most likely scenario?

Not disagreeing with that, just saying that the coverage he's getting is almost all couched/slanted from the viewpoint of where the media was with him during the offseason/preseason, which was Elway/Kubiak would be crazy for starting him, a 7th rounder, with arguably the worst college career of any QB to ever start an NFL game (there is a strong case to be made that he's among, and possibly the worst of, a group of eight horrible college players to ever start a game).

[NightTrainLayne]

I don't listen to 104.3.

I read a bunch of media, and listen to either Sirius/XM or local (OKC) sports radio.

I guess 104.3 is negative on Siemian. I this where Dmac is? I've seen a lot of his comments on Twitter. He's a doofus just trying to drum up controversy and ratings.

[Tned]

If you haven't read this, it's an interesting read. Sporting news author makes the case that Siemian would be the worst college QB to ever start an NFL game, and added to a group of the eight worst college QBs to ever start in the NFL. I read this last month.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/broncos-trevor-siemian-college-career-stats-northwestern-starter-denver/pgoyeximjcm21skmo47il94em

[I Eat Staples]

If you haven't read this, it's an interesting read. Sporting news author makes the case that Siemian would be the worst college QB to ever start an NFL game, and added to a group of the eight worst college QBs to ever start in the NFL. I read this last month.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/broncos-trevor-siemian-college-career-stats-northwestern-starter-denver/pgoyeximjcm21skmo47il94em

I think his college career, more so than his draft status, is the reason I'm still far from convinced he can be a real long-term option. Not only looking at his numbers, but I watched him play several games in college. He was bad. I never even considered that he would play in the NFL. I was shocked that we even used a 7th round pick on him.

I can't help but think his one game against Cincy was a fluke and he's going to come crashing down. Matt Flynn had a great game once. Derek Anderson had quite a few. I think week 1 Siemian is more what we should expect.

[TXBRONC]

I think his college career, more so than his draft status, is the reason I'm still far from convinced he can be a real long-term option. Not only looking at his numbers, but I watched him play several games in college. He was bad. I never even considered that he would play in the NFL. I was shocked that we even used a 7th round pick on him.

I can't help but think his one game against Cincy was a fluke and he's going to come crashing down. Matt Flynn had a great game once. Derek Anderson had quite a few. I think week 1 Siemian is more what we should expect.

He wouldn't be the first quarterback to have a so-so college and then go onto the NFL and do well.

[TXBRONC]

Peter King has an article up today that says Sam Bradford is the MVP so far, but he puts Siemian as third on that list.

That's a little to big of a jump, although when he attended training camp he said that he thought Siemian would be the starting quarterback this year fwiw.

[NightTerror218]

Right now i am going to consider Cinci game a fluke until he can repeat that type of production. Cinci focused so heavily on the run that sanders and DT had 1 on 1 coverage all game. On the 2 big TD passes they made plays on the ball rather than it being a pass on the money. DT man handled the back up CB for his big TD catch when Jones went to sidelines for the play.

I am just waiting for teams to get enough tape on him to see what he is really worth before heaping praises on him. I will give him this, he has a cool ass demeanor and does not get rattled. He has quick release most of time and throws a nice ball. Accuracy fluctuates at times.....example last time DT on crossing route had to jump high in middle of field and get ball. He caught it and then got legs taken out and landed on his hip. Sanders would not have been able to catch that ball it was that high. If DT would have been seriously injured what would people say about siemian then? High passes in middle of the field will kill WRs.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Peter King has an article up today that says Sam Bradford is the MVP so far, but he puts Siemian as third on that list.

Peter King also said Denver was trading Tim Tebow to the Patriots

[Tned]

Right now i am going to consider Cinci game a fluke until he can repeat that type of production. Cinci focused so heavily on the run that sanders and DT had 1 on 1 coverage all game. On the 2 big TD passes they made plays on the ball rather than it being a pass on the money. DT man handled the back up CB for his big TD catch when Jones went to sidelines for the play.

I am just waiting for teams to get enough tape on him to see what he is really worth before heaping praises on him. I will give him this, he has a cool ass demeanor and does not get rattled. He has quick release most of time and throws a nice ball. Accuracy fluctuates at times.....example last time DT on crossing route had to jump high in middle of field and get ball. He caught it and then got legs taken out and landed on his hip. Sanders would not have been able to catch that ball it was that high. If DT would have been seriously injured what would people say about siemian then? High passes in middle of the field will kill WRs.

On accuracy, the reason you can so easily remember the DT play is that I believe that's the closest he's come to hanging a receiver out in his 100+ passes.

On Cinci being an anomaly, I'm not sure what that even means. The fact he's smart enough not to throw into double/triple coverage, but take advantage of single coverage?

Here is Kubiak's response to question about not going deep against Indy.

“They didn’t really let us go long. It was hard to get behind them. I think we have 40 or 50 yards in PI [pass interference] when we did have a chance to actually try to run by them when they played some man coverage. Trevor handled himself very well. What was he, 22-33 for almost 270 yards, and I think with the PI calls, that’s a 300-yard game for a young kid. I think Trevor is progressing well and we just continue to get better around him.”

I'm curious if you guys judged Elway, Manning, Luck, Winston, and countless other overall number one or first round picks to the same standard in their first four games.

[I Eat Staples]

He wouldn't be the first quarterback to have a so-so college and then go onto the NFL and do well.

Well, according to the article Tned posted, only a few QBs were as bad as Siemian and even started an NFL game, and none of them were particularly successful.

[Tned]

Well, according to the article Tned posted, only a few QBs were as bad as Siemian and even started an NFL game, and none of them were particularly successful.

Arguably the worst college QB to ever start an NFL game, according to the Sporting News article.

[I Eat Staples]

Arguably the worst college QB to ever start an NFL game, according to the Sporting News article.

It really puts into perspective how amazing it is that he not only started the season for the Superbowl champs, but started 3-0.

But it also makes it understandable why people are still critical of him. It's hard to even comprehend that someone could be that bad in college and become a good NFL starter.

[I Eat Staples]

It also jumps out to me that Jake Locker is on that list, and he was a 1st round pick. I knew his college career went downhill in his last season, but I didn't know he was that bad.

If Hackenberg gets a chance to start a game I assume he'd be in the same category, since he was the worst QB prospect to be picked that high in a long time.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Hackenberg and Siemian also played on bad teams, which had a lot to do with their turnovers.

[Joel]

There is no question that with a small sample size, stats can be misleading.

Take the first QB ever to to throw for 300 yards, 4 TDs and 0 Ints in his first road start. That only goes back as long as they've been keeping such stats, maybe half a century or more...

Lol, just kidding, but bring that up, due to the amazing way that media and fans are underplaying what Simian has done. Shit, I went back and rewatched Lynch's portion of the game, and while he was wildly inaccurate at times, and he made some ill advised throws, man you can see what could be. You can see that speed, strength and cannon arm and it's exciting.

There is no doubt that with only 3.5 games, and 3 4th quarters, some of the stats could not tell the full story. But, still, he's leading the league in 4th quarter rating by a healthy margin, and has two 4th quarter comebacks (even if as you said one of the drives started in the 3rd quarter), but every other QB in the game, every year, has those same possibilities to "skew" the stats, and still he's the one leading. Now, give him another quarter of the season, and he might and probably will come back to the pack on some of those.

The crazy thing about Siemian, and I was slow to warm up to the idea of him being the starter, is that media and many fans, made a determination about him long ago, and everything he does winds up with a "yea, but..." at the end.

The fact is that if you removed the name and draft position, and only looked at what he has done on the field, both statistically and watching it, there is nobody that would be looking at the body of work and saying, this guy isn't an NFL "starter."

Through quarter mark, 3.5 games for him, he has:



Has commentators raving about his fast release and spot on mechanics/footwork
Teammates raving about his poise and calmness in the huddle
A 99 passer rating
He has the 8th highest passer rating in the league
Weeks 2-4, third highest passer rating in the league (only behind Ryan and Prescott) of 110 or so
First Broncos QB EVER to start his career 4-0 as a starter.
Highest 4th quarter passer rating
Two fourth quarter comebacks in first three games
5th in yards per pass
2nd in 1st down % (percentage of his passes that resulted in first downs)
7th in 40+ yard plays
1st NFL QB ever to have 300+ yards passing, 4 TDs and 0 INTs in first road game
Only second Bronco EVER to have 300+ yards passing, 4 TDs and 0 INTs in a road game (Manning did it twice)
Before leaving his 4th start, he was 5/7 with a 142 rating



I can't find the stat, but his 3rd down conversion is gaudy and one of the best in the league. Anyway, I'm sure I'm leaving out a number of other stats/facts, but I think the point is made.

Take away the name and 7th round draft position, and instead pretend he was a guy drafted at the end of first or in the second round and people would be raving about Siemian right now.
Those things bear repeating, especially since my conviction that passings higher risks are only worthwhile if accompanied by the proportionately higher rewards of instantly single-play conversions and/or instantly catapulting the team to the red zone for sure points. If we're just dinking and dunking to rest our D, tire theirs and burn clock, running's a much better way to do it, but there's no substitute for passing when a team trails multiple scores in the 4th.

I reiterate all that to underscore the importance I perceive in Siemian high yds/att and 3rd down% (the "single-play conversion" part) and his high 4th qtr passer rating with a pair of 4th qtr comebacks thrown in (the "instantly catapulting the team into the red zone for sure points" part, as on DTs 55 yd TD.)

While Siemians physical talent's not quite on Lynchs level, that's a relative metric and Siemian hardly LACKS physical talent, as others have noted. My one and only concern (relative to Siemian himself, rather than our ability to protect and support him) is sustainability. A LOT of QBs making their first career starts look VERY good so far, but that's not exactly unprecedented in the NFL. The question is how many will STILL look that good a month or two from now when opponents have plenty of game tape to analyze and play "spot the Achilles Heel."

If Siemian gets through that and continues to develop even some, it may be hard to get Lynch out there even in 2017. But "if" is a small word with a big meaning.... ;)

For what it's worth on that Opening Day article, I balked near the start when the author said something about passer rating AND completion percentage not being definitive, but good barometers. I take issue with the plural, because the NFL Passer Rating System is little more than completion percentage with bonuses for TDs and penalties for Ints; the only one of its four categories that doesn't have a purely arbitrary value is yards/att (1 yd=1 pt,) and it's also the least valuable.

"Point" being, using completion percentage to "corroborate" a passer rating (or vice versa) is circular reasoning: Everyone with a high completion percentage will also have a high passer rating (and vice versa) almost by definition. But ask Orton just how definitive such a barometer isn't. Pretty much the only thing the PRS is good for is making the case that Joe Montana and Steve Young are the best QBs in history. So either a SINGLE team managed to get not one but BOTH of history best QBs CONSECUTIVELY, or the PRS is "culturally biased" in favor of the West Coast Offense. If there's any confusion about which way I lean:

Steve Youngs career passer rating is 4½ points higher than Montanas, but which would ANYONE rather have in his prime? Schaub has a higher career rating than Marino, and ORTON has a higher career rating than ELWAY. That's less about "teams pass more now" than "teams pass SHORTER now." Great for accuracy, awful for gaining ground or points.