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Ziggy
08-23-2016, 07:36 PM
I'm throwing it out there right now. This starting Oline is going to beast this season. The Broncos will be top 5 in the run game. Elway has done a great job of upgrading this unit.

LT- Russell Okung- When he's healthy he a top 5 LT in this league. He looks like he's already in pro bowl form.
LG- Max Garcia- The youngster continues to improve in pass pro. He was always a beast in the run game. There's a reason the 2015 Olineman nicknamed him "The Future".
C- Matt Paradis- Solid all the way around. Third year is usually when lineman make their biggest leap. I expect no less from him.
RG- Ty Sambrailo/Darion Weems- Weems has been one of the surprises of camp. If Ty doesn't come back strong he may lose his starting job. Either way, it provides good depth at guard.
RT- Donald Stephenson- Another under the radar signing by Elway. I think this guy is the Darian Stewart of 2016. Unheralded, solid veteran.

All in all, when you throw in a real fullback and a commitment to the run I expect to see this unit improve leaps and bounds over last season. The media, local pundits, and forum contributors have all proclaimed this unit to be a weak link on this team. I beg to differ. My gut told me last season that the defense would be special.
It was almost a year ago today when I started this thread in the preseason:
http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php/600444-Broncos-2015-Defense-Best-Ever?highlight=orange+crush
This year my gut tells me that barring injuries, the offensive line will be really good. Feel free to bump this thread and laugh me off of the forum if I'm wrong.

WARHORSE
08-23-2016, 08:20 PM
Whoa-whoa-whoa.....

Take it easy SlimShady.

Lets not crown them just yet.





But I am feelin purty good about em.

Of course....could be the GreyGoose....

Davii
08-23-2016, 08:25 PM
Whoa-whoa-whoa.....

Take it easy SlimShady.

Lets not crown them just yet.





But I am feelin purty good about em.

Of course....could be the GreyGoose....

If he wants to crown them, then crown they ass!

dogfish
08-23-2016, 08:36 PM
not gonna lie. . . i do hope for better results than last year, but they kinda look like a weak link to me, too. . . at best, one injury away from being one. . . schofield is supposedly still in contention to start at guard (at least week one), and that is flat scary. . . sombrero hasn't shown that he can stay on the field, and i don't want to talk about tackle depth beyond that. . .

Ziggy
08-23-2016, 08:44 PM
not gonna lie. . . i do hope for better results than last year, but they kinda look like a weak link to me, too. . . at best, one injury away from being one. . . schofield is supposedly still in contention to start at guard (at least week one), and that is flat scary. . . sombrero hasn't shown that he can stay on the field, and i don't want to talk about tackle depth beyond that. . .

He is in contention to start, but only because 2 players in front of him are injured. Right now he's running 3rd team guard and backup tackle on both sides. That's why I put the "barring injuries" comment in. I believe the starting line will beast out. Hopefully they will stay healthy and we can look back at the end of the season and see if my gut was right. If not, it won't be the first or last time I was wrong about my boys.

NightTrainLayne
08-23-2016, 11:33 PM
I'm throwing it out there right now. This starting Oline is going to beast this season. The Broncos will be top 5 in the run game. Elway has done a great job of upgrading this unit.

LT- Russell Okung- When he's healthy he a top 5 LT in this league. He looks like he's already in pro bowl form.
LG- Max Garcia- The youngster continues to improve in pass pro. He was always a beast in the run game. There's a reason the 2015 Olineman nicknamed him "The Future".
C- Matt Paradis- Solid all the way around. Third year is usually when lineman make their biggest leap. I expect no less from him.
RG- Ty Sambrailo/Darion Weems- Weems has been one of the surprises of camp. If Ty doesn't come back strong he may lose his starting job. Either way, it provides good depth at guard.
RT- Donald Stephenson- Another under the radar signing by Elway. I think this guy is the Darian Stewart of 2016. Unheralded, solid veteran.

All in all, when you throw in a real fullback and a commitment to the run I expect to see this unit improve leaps and bounds over last season. The media, local pundits, and forum contributors have all proclaimed this unit to be a weak link on this team. I beg to differ. My gut told me last season that the defense would be special.
It was almost a year ago today when I started this thread in the preseason:
http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php/600444-Broncos-2015-Defense-Best-Ever?highlight=orange+crush
This year my gut tells me that barring injuries, the offensive line will be really good. Feel free to bump this thread and laugh me off of the forum if I'm wrong.

I'm with you Ziggy. When Sirius/XM spent the day @ camp 2 weeks ago, they came back to how good the O-line looked again and again, and all the guys on defense were singing their praises.

Simple Jaded
08-23-2016, 11:57 PM
My boy Schoefield gonna go out and shock the WORLD.

dogfish
08-24-2016, 12:09 AM
My boy Schoefield gonna go out and shock the WORLD.

dude, don't you even dare troll ziggy like that. . . shit ain't cool, man. . .

Simple Jaded
08-24-2016, 12:11 AM
dude, don't you even dare troll ziggy like that. . . shit ain't cool, man. . .

He gonna shock the WORLD by not giving up 5 sacks in Rams game.

Valar Morghulis
08-24-2016, 12:12 AM
My boy Schoefield gonna go out and shock the WORLD.

By becoming an O lineman?

Or

By doing anything else remotely effective?

dogfish
08-24-2016, 12:13 AM
He gonna shock the WORLD by not giving up 5 sacks in Rams game.

okay, fair point. . . at guard, it'll probably be more like 3.5. . . maybe he can pin one on paradis, despite your love for boise. . .

Simple Jaded
08-24-2016, 12:15 AM
I do love me some Boise.

Poet
08-24-2016, 12:38 AM
Hey Dogfish, I always thought that Okung was a very good tackle, so there's that, right?

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
08-24-2016, 12:53 AM
I do love me some Boise.


okay, fair point. . . at guard, it'll probably be more like 3.5. . . maybe he can pin one on paradis, despite your love for boise. . .

I hope you two hooligans have a moment of silence next time you enjoy mashed potatoes.

Joel
08-24-2016, 01:21 AM
Last year proved anything's possible, and Dennison is to blockers what Kubiak is to passers, but I'm not holding my breath. I don't think Mannings slew of separate debilitating injuries his final three seasons were solely (maybe not even primarily) due to age: Osweiler's WAY younger, but lasted all of a WEEK longer in 2015. Even in his record-shattering 2013, Manning played HALF the season with BOTH ankles taped because the Bolts kept diving at them and our "blockers" couldn't even get in the way.

Just as I doubt it's coincidence CJ was the leagues best rusher in the second half of one season and first half of the next, or that McGahee and Moreno only had about a year of subpar ball left in them by the time our line was done with them. Sure, it's a new year, and I do expect improvement, but it's hard to go from "Oh, God, I can't look" to elite in one year. And while the work may have started last year, last years efforts did very little good. Garcia and Paradis have been the pick of the bunch so far; Sambrailo can't even stay on the field.

Speaking of individual linemen and predictions:

Okung's a legit stud as long as he stays healthy; the only time the 2013 Seahawks looked vulnerable was when a mid-season injury sidelined him for several weeks.

Garcia's a bulldozer, but got fooled by even the simplest stunts and delayed blitzes all last season. Hopefully Dennison's been able to coach him up.

Paradis had the same problem as Garcia AND got pushed back into Manning and Oz' face all year. "Too weak for line surge in the run game, too inexperienced for deception in the pass game" is not a good description of a starting NFL center. Dennison can coach the latter just as he can with Garcia, but Paradis needs a strength coach at least as badly.

RG: TBA. That says it all; it's hard to believe our starting RG's legit when WE DON'T EVEN KNOW WHO HE IS yet.

RT: For a guy who came over from a division rival, I know fairly little about Stephenson, but a lot of that's because KC lost two solid OTs to FA in the 2015 offseason and he was neither of them. Maybe they had THREE stud OTs on the same roster, but that seems kind of implausible, especially since they were willing to part with the third one just one season after being flat outbid for the two guys ahead of him on their depth chart.

If we want to talk 2016 predictions based on the vindication of 2015 predictions: I said a year ago that our franchise QB probably wasn't on the roster yet. And stopped just short of saying Kubiak would lead us the Promised Land his first year back, mainly because 1) that one was pretty implausible, too (especially given our line) and 2) between the Broncos, a native Houstonian former Broncos OC/QB and Bum Phillips' son, it was pretty much impossible for me to be objective.

Northman
08-24-2016, 02:56 AM
I'm throwing it out there right now. This starting Oline is going to beast this season. The Broncos will be top 5 in the run game. Elway has done a great job of upgrading this unit.

LT- Russell Okung- When he's healthy he a top 5 LT in this league. He looks like he's already in pro bowl form.
LG- Max Garcia- The youngster continues to improve in pass pro. He was always a beast in the run game. There's a reason the 2015 Olineman nicknamed him "The Future".
C- Matt Paradis- Solid all the way around. Third year is usually when lineman make their biggest leap. I expect no less from him.
RG- Ty Sambrailo/Darion Weems- Weems has been one of the surprises of camp. If Ty doesn't come back strong he may lose his starting job. Either way, it provides good depth at guard.
RT- Donald Stephenson- Another under the radar signing by Elway. I think this guy is the Darian Stewart of 2016. Unheralded, solid veteran.

All in all, when you throw in a real fullback and a commitment to the run I expect to see this unit improve leaps and bounds over last season. The media, local pundits, and forum contributors have all proclaimed this unit to be a weak link on this team. I beg to differ. My gut told me last season that the defense would be special.
It was almost a year ago today when I started this thread in the preseason:
http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php/600444-Broncos-2015-Defense-Best-Ever?highlight=orange+crush
This year my gut tells me that barring injuries, the offensive line will be really good. Feel free to bump this thread and laugh me off of the forum if I'm wrong.


I dont know how much better they will be than last year but i do think they will be better than last year. But the depth behind them is very very crappy so hopefully those guys do not get any injuries because there is a huge drop off.

VonDoom
08-24-2016, 06:19 AM
I wish I could be as positive as you on this, Ziggy. I'll settle for hoping that your prediction comes true. A solid line will help everyone, including whoever our QB is.

TXBRONC
08-24-2016, 07:09 AM
My boy Schoefield gonna go out and shock the WORLD.

By sucking only half as bad as he did last year? :D

VonDoom
08-24-2016, 09:26 AM
Pats released Bryan Stork today, in a bit of a surprise. Better than Paradis?

BroncoWave
08-24-2016, 09:59 AM
The problem with this is that o-line is one of the most physical positions, and one of the hardest to stay healthy. You are almost always going to have injuries there, so depth is really important. So year, while our starting unit might look good on paper, and maybe they will be really good, I would say it's a longshot at best to think they will all stay healthy all season. Especially with guys like Okung and Sambrailo already having a history of injury issues.

TXBRONC
08-24-2016, 10:05 AM
Pats released Bryan Stork today, in a bit of a surprise. Better than Paradis?

I think they are about even. Why did the Patriots release him? Maybe I'm wrong but it seems to me the Patriots were bullish on him as someone they could build around.

VonDoom
08-24-2016, 10:10 AM
I think they are about even. Why did the Patriots release him? Maybe I'm wrong but it seems to me the Patriots were bullish on him as someone they could build around.

I know he got kicked out of practice the other day, I think for a skirmish. There's probably more to it, though. If Belichick cut him, there's usually a reason.

VonDoom
08-24-2016, 10:10 AM
The problem with this is that o-line is one of the most physical positions, and one of the hardest to stay healthy. You are almost always going to have injuries there, so depth is really important. So year, while our starting unit might look good on paper, and maybe they will be really good, I would say it's a longshot at best to think they will all stay healthy all season. Especially with guys like Okung and Sambrailo already having a history of injury issues.

Yeah, I definitely feel more confident in our starting five than I did last year at any time. But there's not much behind them, and that has been a problem already (see: 49ers game)

TXBRONC
08-24-2016, 11:27 AM
I'm throwing it out there right now. This starting Oline is going to beast this season. The Broncos will be top 5 in the run game. Elway has done a great job of upgrading this unit.

LT- Russell Okung- When he's healthy he a top 5 LT in this league. He looks like he's already in pro bowl form.
LG- Max Garcia- The youngster continues to improve in pass pro. He was always a beast in the run game. There's a reason the 2015 Olineman nicknamed him "The Future".
C- Matt Paradis- Solid all the way around. Third year is usually when lineman make their biggest leap. I expect no less from him.
RG- Ty Sambrailo/Darion Weems- Weems has been one of the surprises of camp. If Ty doesn't come back strong he may lose his starting job. Either way, it provides good depth at guard.
RT- Donald Stephenson- Another under the radar signing by Elway. I think this guy is the Darian Stewart of 2016. Unheralded, solid veteran.

All in all, when you throw in a real fullback and a commitment to the run I expect to see this unit improve leaps and bounds over last season. The media, local pundits, and forum contributors have all proclaimed this unit to be a weak link on this team. I beg to differ. My gut told me last season that the defense would be special.
It was almost a year ago today when I started this thread in the preseason:
http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php/600444-Broncos-2015-Defense-Best-Ever?highlight=orange+crush
This year my gut tells me that barring injuries, the offensive line will be really good. Feel free to bump this thread and laugh me off of the forum if I'm wrong.

I hope you're right. :beer:

Joel
08-25-2016, 03:15 AM
I know he got kicked out of practice the other day, I think for a skirmish. There's probably more to it, though. If Belichick cut him, there's usually a reason.
Belicheat cuts the teams leading (and only) rusher for being 5 minutes late to a single film session. Regardless, Stork punched well above his weight as a rookie starter on their last SB team; I'd love to have him. If nothing else, he'd be a better backup G than injury prone Sambrailo or outright awful Schofield. I realize we're all about the ZBS again, but could someone please tell Dennison an OT too slow to beat edge rushers isn't a prime starting G candidate: He's just a bad OT.

VonDoom
08-25-2016, 06:04 AM
Belicheat cuts the teams leading (and only) rusher for being 5 minutes late to a single film session. Regardless, Stork punched well above his weight as a rookie starter on their last SB team; I'd love to have him. If nothing else, he'd be a better backup G than injury prone Sambrailo or outright awful Schofield. I realize we're all about the ZBS again, but could someone please tell Dennison an OT too slow to beat edge rushers isn't a prime starting G candidate: He's just a bad OT.

It's a moot point now anyway since he was traded, not released. He also considered retirement. Strange day for Stork

TXBRONC
08-25-2016, 06:54 AM
It's a moot point now anyway since he was traded, not released. He also considered retirement. Strange day for Stork

That is wierd.

Joel
08-26-2016, 02:16 AM
It's a moot point now anyway since he was traded, not released. He also considered retirement. Strange day for Stork
Oh, well; Schofield for MVP it is then. :(

nevcraw
08-26-2016, 06:13 AM
It's a moot point now anyway since he was traded, not released. He also considered retirement. Strange day for Stork
Serious concussion issues.

broncofaninfla
08-26-2016, 12:09 PM
Good stuff as always Ziggy. I feel better about this years starting O-line than last year but depth is still a concern. With that said if they can stay healthy we should be much improved on the o line.

Ziggy
09-09-2016, 06:26 AM
Great start for the Oline. Much improved from last season. They just hung 5.1 yards/carry on the best front 7 in football. This is going to be a fun season once again.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
09-09-2016, 08:55 AM
Great start for the Oline. Much improved from last season. They just hung 5.1 yards/carry on the best front 7 in football. This is going to be a fun season once again.
Didn't Schlereth say they were much improved?

BigDaddyBronco
09-09-2016, 09:59 AM
It's a work in progress, but both Garcia and Schofield had good and bad moments out there. Having a more mobile QB helps immensely.

Joel
09-10-2016, 01:22 AM
Great start for the Oline. Much improved from last season. They just hung 5.1 yards/carry on the best front 7 in football. This is going to be a fun season once again.
Not to take anything from our OFFENSIVE lines quantum leap in improvement, but: The PANTHERS have "the best front 7 in football"? Because Malik Jackson+Danny Trevathan are a bigger loss than Jared Allen? Maybe it's worth remembering that Carolina had a pretty good offensive line in its own right last year, just not good ENOUGH: So Thursday they did a lot of max protect, and that, combined with three Denver turnovers inside their 30, made the game competitive.

Simple Jaded
09-10-2016, 05:48 PM
My boy Schofield gonna shock the WORLD!

slim
09-10-2016, 06:47 PM
Great start for the Oline. Much improved from last season. They just hung 5.1 yards/carry on the best front 7 in football. This is going to be a fun season once again.

Not for MO, he HATES the running game.

TXBRONC
09-10-2016, 07:55 PM
My boy Schofield gonna shock the WORLD!

This sounds familar.

Ziggy
09-10-2016, 10:44 PM
Not to take anything from our OFFENSIVE lines quantum leap in improvement, but: The PANTHERS have "the best front 7 in football"? Because Malik Jackson+Danny Trevathan are a bigger loss than Jared Allen? Maybe it's worth remembering that Carolina had a pretty good offensive line in its own right last year, just not good ENOUGH: So Thursday they did a lot of max protect, and that, combined with three Denver turnovers inside their 30, made the game competitive.

Maybe it's also worth remembering that Kubiak has repeatedly said that the Panthers front 7 is the best he's ever coached against.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
09-10-2016, 10:46 PM
My boy Schofield gonna shock the WORLD!

Let's not pretend you actually believed it would happen.

He actually looks good at guard. Fabio might be riding the pine for the near future.

Simple Jaded
09-11-2016, 12:24 AM
Let's not pretend you actually believed it would happen.

He actually looks good at guard. Fabio might be riding the pine for the near future.

I...Knew it all along.

Don't stop...
Believin...

Hold on to that feeling Al Wilson 4 Mayor.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
09-11-2016, 12:43 AM
I...Knew it all along.

Don't stop...
Believin...

Hold on to that feeling Al Wilson 4 Mayor.
Street light people

MOtorboat
09-11-2016, 02:43 AM
Not for MO, he HATES the running game.

Man that game was fun, running and passing with such efficiency!

#slimstoodumbtounderstand

Joel
09-11-2016, 07:47 AM
Maybe it's also worth remembering that Kubiak has repeatedly said that the Panthers front 7 is the best he's ever coached against.
That doesn't make them the best in football. When the asked Wades dad why he never did Oiler-Oiler scrimmages, he just said, "Houston's not on our schedule." The last time Kubiak coached against Denver, Wade was on HIS sideline, DeMarcus Ware was in Dallas and we ran a 4-3 under Fox and Del Rio. As an offensive guy, Kubiak's probably very grateful he's NEVER coached against OUR front 7.

BroncoWave
10-13-2016, 10:55 PM
Good thread!

silkamilkamonico
10-13-2016, 11:05 PM
I didn't think there was any way possible that we would be worse than last yearalongtheoline, but weRe worse than last year.

Major holes in personnel, and some body along the coaching staff isn't doingtheirjob and needs to be fired.

GEM
10-13-2016, 11:45 PM
2016 oline...sucks monkey balls. Fatasses! :D

sneakers
10-14-2016, 01:55 AM
2016 oline...sucks monkey balls. Fatasses! :D

FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT ASSSEs


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fe92m7nF7s

Lynch12
10-14-2016, 09:01 AM
https://youtu.be/SWmQbk5h86w

The oline is who we thought they were! If you wanna crown there ass after a pre season game then do it!!!!! Lol

But really were so far from beasting out.

BroncoTech
10-14-2016, 05:54 PM
O-line is so bad it's killing coaches. Kubes narrowly escapes death the last game and on the headline of NFL.com it says Broncos fill-in head coach Joe DeCamillis said he was "sick to my stomach" after losing to the San Diego Chargers. What happens when all the fans are in the ER after watching this team play? It could be millions of fans sickened. Is there a recall plan? Any method to block the sickening portions of the game?

silkamilkamonico
10-14-2016, 06:16 PM
O-line is so bad it's killing coaches. Kubes narrowly escapes death the last game and on the headline of NFL.com it says Broncos fill-in head coach Joe DeCamillis said he was "sick to my stomach" after losing to the San Diego Chargers. What happens when all the fans are in the ER after watching this team play? It could be millions of fans sickened. Is there a recall plan? Any method to block the sickening portions of the game?


Coaches should probably be doing a better job coaching them up to be better at their job.

Ziggy
10-14-2016, 09:00 PM
This Oline is really been bad the last 2 games. My prediction is not looking good right now. Keep the faith though people. The season is young.

NightTerror218
10-14-2016, 09:15 PM
Oline allowed pressure to lynch on 43% of snaps. Allowed 14% to siemian, but had so many holding penalties to offset the onslaught.

MOtorboat
10-15-2016, 03:16 AM
Oline allowed pressure to lynch on 43% of snaps. Allowed 14% to siemian, but had so many holding penalties to offset the onslaught.

Wow. That pretty much highlights how bad Siemian was.

Ziggy
10-15-2016, 08:47 AM
Oline allowed pressure to lynch on 43% of snaps. Allowed 14% to siemian, but had so many holding penalties to offset the onslaught.

That's a skewed number. Siemian gets rid of the ball far quicker than Lynch. A big part of the 43% is Lynch holding on to the ball way too long. That being said, Siemian and the Oline both played poorly the other night.

Northman
10-15-2016, 08:51 AM
That's a skewed number. Siemian gets rid of the ball far quicker than Lynch. A big part of the 43% is Lynch holding on to the ball way too long. That being said, Siemian and the Oline both played poorly the other night.

Also im pretty sure that Siemien was still playing with an injury so that didnt help matters.

BroncoWave
10-15-2016, 11:04 AM
That's a skewed number. Siemian gets rid of the ball far quicker than Lynch. A big part of the 43% is Lynch holding on to the ball way too long. That being said, Siemian and the Oline both played poorly the other night.

That actually got debunked too. Andrew Mason looked at their average release times in those two games and they were almost identical.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
10-15-2016, 11:21 AM
That actually got debunked too. Andrew Mason looked at their average release times in those two games and they were almost identical.

The both have quick releases, as Mason pointed out. He also pointed out Lynch holds the ball longer than Siemian, which is largely due to the difficulty he has processing what he's seeing at this point of his career

Northman
10-15-2016, 11:22 AM
The both have quick releases, as Mason pointed out. He also pointed out Lynch holds the ball longer than Siemian, which is largely due to the difficulty he has processing what he's seeing at this point of his career

Yea, it wasnt hard to spot that Lynch holds the ball longer. It was very evident in the Atlanta game.

BroncoWave
10-15-2016, 11:42 AM
Here's the stat about how long each QB holds onto the ball. Lynch's is slightly longer, but it's a negligible difference. Basically 1/10 of a second.

https://twitter.com/NickiJhabvala/status/785516557904392192

Northman
10-15-2016, 11:51 AM
Not from what ive seen personally. Im a little skeptical by those numbers because what ive seen he holds onto it way longer than Siemien right now.

BroncoWave
10-15-2016, 11:53 AM
Not from what ive seen personally. Im a little skeptical by those numbers because what ive seen he holds onto it way longer than Siemien right now.

I mean, PFF is pretty much the gold standard for tracking stuff like this. I doubt they made the numbers up. I think it's possible you are just remembering the plays where he did hold onto the ball moreso than the ones were he let it go quickly.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
10-15-2016, 11:53 AM
Not from what ive seen personally. Im a little skeptical by those numbers because what ive seen he holds onto it way longer than Siemien right now.
He also takes more sacks. I wonder how they account for that

BroncoWave
10-15-2016, 11:54 AM
He also takes more sacks. I wonder how they account for that

You'll notice the second part of the tweet I posted does account for that.

Northman
10-15-2016, 11:55 AM
I mean, PFF is pretty much the gold standard for tracking stuff like this. I doubt they made the numbers up. I think it's possible you are just remembering the plays where he did hold onto the ball moreso than the ones were he let it go quickly.

Maybe. And maybe its the times when its most crucial to what ever given play (or down) they happen on so its certainly possible.

Northman
10-15-2016, 11:56 AM
Either way, at the end of the day if Kubiak felt that the QB's were really that close than Lynch would most likely be starting. I mean, there is a reason why he chose Siemien at this point of the season.

BroncoWave
10-15-2016, 11:58 AM
Either way, at the end of the day if Kubiak felt that the QB's were really that close than Lynch would most likely be starting. I mean, there is a reason why he chose Siemien at this point of the season.

No one is saying that Lynch should be starting.

Northman
10-15-2016, 11:59 AM
No one is saying that Lynch should be starting.

There have been some who believe that he should be the starter. Not you specifically but i have seen the posts saying he should be.

BroncoWave
10-15-2016, 12:00 PM
There have been some who believe that he should be the starter. Not you specifically but i have seen the posts saying he should be.

Those have been in the vast minority though. And most of the people saying he should have started this week were saying so more because of Siemian's injury than because they think Lynch is better.

Northman
10-15-2016, 12:02 PM
Those have been in the vast minority though. And most of the people saying he should have started this week were saying so more because of Siemian's injury than because they think Lynch is better.

And its the minority that i was addressing and i dont disagree about the starting this past week. However, the report was that Siemien was healthy enough to start but it clearly doesnt seem to be the case.

BroncoWave
10-15-2016, 12:05 PM
North, you should be more accepting of minorities. :D

Simple Jaded
10-16-2016, 04:56 PM
If You guys want a good cry you should watch the Cowballs v Packers game, thoroughly depressing watching these two OL's actually block.

BroncoWave
10-16-2016, 04:57 PM
If You guys want a good cry you should watch the Cowballs v Packers game, thoroughly depressing watching these two OL's actually block.

It depresses me too but for a different reason. Oh what could have been!

Simple Jaded
10-16-2016, 05:07 PM
That actually got debunked too. Andrew Mason looked at their average release times in those two games and they were almost identical.

Averages don't necessarily debunk that tho, it just shows that they're average is similar. There's a lot of different ways to get to the same number.

Simple Jaded
10-16-2016, 05:11 PM
It depresses me too but for a different reason. Oh what could have been!

He'd look like Lynch in this offense, imo, you're assuming he'd be that good in an offense that's not particularly interested in running his college concepts (Bucky Brooks, not me) behind an OL that literally does nothing well. Wentz looked like a rookie without Lane Johnson locking down the RT.

BroncoWave
10-16-2016, 05:13 PM
He'd look like Lynch in this offense, imo, you're assuming he'd be that good in an offense that's not particularly interested in running his college concepts (Bucky Brooks, not me) behind an OL that literally does nothing well. Wentz looked like a rookie without Lane Johnson locking down the RT.

You're probably right, but it still makes me a sad panda.

Simple Jaded
10-16-2016, 05:22 PM
You're probably right, but it still makes me a sad panda.

Hey, at least he'll forever be on national tv so you can watch him every week wherever you are.

I hope he's the Next Tom Brady so the national media can finally stop sucking Shady's nut sacs.

GEM
10-16-2016, 07:41 PM
Well Siemian doesn't go through progressions either, he just runs a draw play over and over and over. :D

NightTrainLayne
10-17-2016, 10:14 AM
Here's the stat about how long each QB holds onto the ball. Lynch's is slightly longer, but it's a negligible difference. Basically 1/10 of a second.

https://twitter.com/NickiJhabvala/status/785516557904392192

This only takes into account plays where he actually throws the ball. It's not the proper stat to prove this point.

Lynch12
10-17-2016, 10:26 AM
Excuses excuses

Simple Jaded
10-17-2016, 09:00 PM
Excuses excuses

And what's Lynch's excuse?

Cugel
10-18-2016, 05:13 PM
There have been some who believe that he should be the starter. Not you specifically but i have seen the posts saying he should be.

The only way Lynch starts is if Siemian continues to struggle. If that happens, then they might as well start the rookie and get him some experience. Otherwise this is the defending SB champions so obviously, they aren't going to start Lynch.

CrazyHorse
10-18-2016, 05:30 PM
If we lose a few more games Lynch needs to start. Let's be honest. The Broncos were never going to win the Super Bowl this year with Siemian or Lynch. At least Manning offered experience and knowledge of the game even with his diminished skillset.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
10-18-2016, 07:34 PM
If we lose a few more games Lynch needs to start. Let's be honest. The Broncos were never going to win the Super Bowl this year with Siemian or Lynch. At least Manning offered experience and knowledge of the game even with his diminished skillset.

Starting Lynch is a horrible idea as long as the playoffs are a possibility. That would send a negative message to the team. Only crappy teams like the Jags do stuff like that

dogfish
10-19-2016, 12:25 AM
If we lose a few more games Lynch needs to start. Let's be honest. The Broncos were never going to win the Super Bowl this year with Siemian or Lynch. At least Manning offered experience and knowledge of the game even with his diminished skillset.

and last year, people were saying after week six or seven that we "had no chance," and were a one-and-done team even if we somehow made the playoffs. . .


thankfully, kubes knows what he's doing. . . he's not going to panic at two games over .500, and tied for first place. . .



:cool:

#CoolHandGary

Hawgdriver
10-19-2016, 02:26 AM
Let's be honest. The Broncos were never going to win the Super Bowl this year with Siemian or Lynch.

"were" ?

Traveler
12-04-2016, 09:36 AM
Quick questions. Is it me or since the bye week are the Broncos not even running the ZBS anymore? Not having access to the All22 footage, what I've seen is more power man blocking. Am I wrong?

Lynch12
12-04-2016, 11:41 AM
Starting Lynch is a horrible idea as long as the playoffs are a possibility. That would send a negative message to the team. Only crappy teams like the Jags do stuff like that

Did you not read what he said?

Simple Jaded
12-04-2016, 08:24 PM
Quick questions. Is it me or since the bye week are the Broncos not even running the ZBS anymore? Not having access to the All22 footage, what I've seen is more power man blocking. Am I wrong?

They've diversified it a bit according to Nalen and Lammey; more gaps and power stuff, which is nice. But they still run mostly zone and they still suck at all of it.

Simple Jaded
12-05-2016, 12:09 AM
You know what these new run plays might signal? Maybe the Broncos are giving Barone a chance to coach it his way, to run his run plays and pass protections. He isn't a zone guy, iirc, though he apparently isn't a power/man guy either. It would only seem fair before chopping his head off in the offseason.

#amancandream
#pleaseoplease

Joel
12-05-2016, 12:13 AM
You know what these new run plays might signal? Maybe the Broncos are giving Barone a chance to coach it his way, to run his run plays and pass protections. He isn't a zone guy, iirc, though he apparently isn't a power/man guy either. It would only seem fair before chopping his head off in the offseason.

#amancandream
#pleaseoplease
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlMwc1c0HRQ

NightTerror218
12-05-2016, 12:27 AM
Vasquez is still available

Joel
12-05-2016, 01:18 AM
Vasquez is still available
But would he come back after we kicked him to the curb? If so: DO IT; he's easily the best pass blocker we've had since Cladys lis-franc.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
12-05-2016, 01:21 AM
But would he come back after we kicked him to the curb? If so: DO IT; he's easily the best pass blocker we've had since Cladys lis-franc.
He was a shell of himself last year. There's a reason he's still available.

Simple Jaded
12-05-2016, 01:25 AM
Dude there was a play with 14:00 left in the 4th where the Broncos kept 7 in for Pass Pro, the sweet sweet OL plus Green and Thompson...the Jags flushed Lynch out of the pocket in less than 3seconds rushing FOUR guys. Green and Thompson doubled the rusher coming to the offenses right.......leaving FIVE OL to block the other three when Garcia's guy and Geeen/Thompson guy flush QB out of pocket.

Lynch was already scrambling by the time Sanders turned his head to QB on a short crosser.

It is comical how bad this OL is.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
12-05-2016, 01:30 AM
Dude there was a play with 14:00 left in the 4th where the Broncos kept 7 in for Pass Pro, the sweet sweet OL plus Green and Thompson...the Jags flushed Lynch out of the pocket in less than 3seconds rushing FOUR guys. Green and Thompson doubled the rusher coming to the offenses right.......leaving FIVE OL to block the other three when Garcia's guy and Geeen/Thompson guy flush QB out of pocket.
Lynch was already scrambling by the time Sanders turned his head to QB on a short crosser.

It is comical how bad this OL is.

Garcia's guy got through that quick; whoda thunkit?

Simple Jaded
12-05-2016, 01:35 AM
Garcia's guy got through that quick; whoda thunkit?

Actually, if anything Garcia's guy flushed Lynch out of pocket by collapsing Garcia into Lynch. Garcia's supposed to be the "roadgrader" according to Garcia.

CrazyHorse
12-05-2016, 01:38 AM
Vasquez is still available

I thought he was let go because he doesn't fit the zone blocking system and was being overpaid.

Simple Jaded
12-05-2016, 01:40 AM
I thought he was let go because he doesn't fit the zone blocking system and was being overpaid.

Vasquez ran a ton of zone in college and SD.

Joel
12-05-2016, 01:48 AM
I thought he was let go because he doesn't fit the zone blocking system and was being overpaid.
The guys we've GOT are overpaid, even if "earning" the minimum (which, the way we "value" our linemen, they may well be.) So even a shell of Vasquez' former self would probably be a big improvement, certainly over Schofield. He played hurt most of last year, but it's a year later in December, so if he's still available he's hopefully healed up by now. And, to be brutally honest, I'm pretty desperate at this point, not that that makes a whit of difference.

CrazyHorse
12-05-2016, 02:00 AM
Vasquez ran a ton of zone in college and SD.

Is he injured, out of shape, or have resentment against the team for releasing him? If not signing him as a free agent seems to make sense. The same goes for Terrance Knighton. I'd even take Moreno back at this point provided the lack of depth at RB. I'm sure there's other issues at play though. The NFL doesn't quite work like Madden.

Simple Jaded
12-05-2016, 02:02 AM
I hope Kubiak walked straight up to his former OL coach after the game and offered him a job.

Simple Jaded
12-05-2016, 02:08 AM
Is he injured, out of shape, or have resentment against the team for releasing him? If not signing him as a free agent seems to make sense. The same goes for Terrance Knighton. I'd even take Hillman and Moreno back at this point provided the lack of depth at RB. I'm sure there's other issues at play though. The NFL doesn't quite work like Madden.

He was in bad shape, played most of the last two seasons that way, and iirc, he did say he was shocked to be let go after the FA started in March so I don't think he saw it coming. And to be more specific about his college/SD days, he ran moe belly and inside zone than stretch zone, which is basically what they're trying to do now. People see 6-5/330 and think mauler, that's never been Vasquez.

Personally, I would think that the time off has done him some good, physically. I would love to see him brought in but RG isn't exactly the biggest issue according to Nalen. Perhaps moving Schofield to LG should be considered but it doesn't appear as though they consider much of anything except wake up calls.

Simple Jaded
12-05-2016, 02:14 AM
Schofield had a play on 3rd and one out of shotgun where his guy was the only defender keeping Booker from getting to second level, his guy just shed him like a smelly coat. It just never ends.

Poet
12-05-2016, 03:12 AM
No one would have accepted this level of play from the team around the time this thread started. The coaching has failed miserably in this sense.

Tned
12-05-2016, 08:58 AM
I'm throwing it out there right now. This starting Oline is going to beast this season. The Broncos will be top 5 in the run game. Elway has done a great job of upgrading this unit.

LT- Russell Okung- When he's healthy he a top 5 LT in this league. He looks like he's already in pro bowl form.
LG- Max Garcia- The youngster continues to improve in pass pro. He was always a beast in the run game. There's a reason the 2015 Olineman nicknamed him "The Future".
C- Matt Paradis- Solid all the way around. Third year is usually when lineman make their biggest leap. I expect no less from him.
RG- Ty Sambrailo/Darion Weems- Weems has been one of the surprises of camp. If Ty doesn't come back strong he may lose his starting job. Either way, it provides good depth at guard.
RT- Donald Stephenson- Another under the radar signing by Elway. I think this guy is the Darian Stewart of 2016. Unheralded, solid veteran.

All in all, when you throw in a real fullback and a commitment to the run I expect to see this unit improve leaps and bounds over last season. The media, local pundits, and forum contributors have all proclaimed this unit to be a weak link on this team. I beg to differ. My gut told me last season that the defense would be special.
It was almost a year ago today when I started this thread in the preseason:
http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php/600444-Broncos-2015-Defense-Best-Ever?highlight=orange+crush
This year my gut tells me that barring injuries, the offensive line will be really good. Feel free to bump this thread and laugh me off of the forum if I'm wrong.

I'm not sure I was quite this high on them, but I expected much more. I thought the biggest concern was depth, especially at tackle, but I expected without injuries to the tackles, for this line to play MUCH better than we've seen. Very disappointing.

Joel
12-05-2016, 12:22 PM
I hope Kubiak walked straight up to his former OL coach after the game and offered him a job.
To be fair, Bentons new unit's little better than ours. Maybe the guy we should've gotten is Kubiaks former ASSISTANT line coach, Frank Pollack, who was fired along with the rest of Kubiaks Houston staff in 2013—and immediately hired to turn the Cowboys line into what it is today.

Wikipedia says Alex Gibbs' son went from Kubiaks Texans in 2010 to the Houston Cougars, then served as their interim head coach in 2014 before becoming a coordinator at Texas Tech last year—but he's a DEFENSIVE coach for some reason.

Lynch12
12-05-2016, 03:07 PM
I thought he was let go because he doesn't fit the zone blocking system and was being overpaid.

Vazquez is better than every offensive linemen we have on the team, they are all overpaid because they all should be on the street!

broncohead
12-05-2016, 04:44 PM
Has McGovern played yet? I liked the pick last year and thought he offered some good depth and potentially compete for RG

VonDoom
12-05-2016, 05:43 PM
Has McGovern played yet? I liked the pick last year and thought he offered some good depth and potentially compete for RG

He's been inactive every week. I would think he's worth a shot but the coaches must not think he's better than what we have

NightTerror218
12-05-2016, 08:00 PM
He's been inactive every week. I would think he's worth a shot but the coaches must not think he's better than what we have

Wonder if he is having issues with playbook or something.

Simple Jaded
12-05-2016, 08:29 PM
To be fair, Bentons new unit's little better than ours. Maybe the guy we should've gotten is Kubiaks former ASSISTANT line coach, Frank Pollack, who was fired along with the rest of Kubiaks Houston staff in 2013—and immediately hired to turn the Cowboys line into what it is today.

Wikipedia says Alex Gibbs' son went from Kubiaks Texans in 2010 to the Houston Cougars, then served as their interim head coach in 2014 before becoming a coordinator at Texas Tech last year—but he's a DEFENSIVE coach for some reason.

You don't need a guru, though, and that OL looks a hell of a lot better than Denver's. They have history together, successful, it makes sense.

David Gibbs was always a Defensive coach, and a huge asshloe.

As for Dallas OL, I thought Callahan got that ball rolling before moving to the Redskins?

NightTerror218
12-06-2016, 12:49 PM
Anybody miss clady yet?

Lynch12
12-06-2016, 02:01 PM
I said it the other day, losing clady was the biggest blow we took, is he still playing? I just wish our all pro LT didn't get the injury bug man, also wish we didnt lose franklin.

Tned
12-06-2016, 02:27 PM
Anybody miss clady yet?

Yea.

VonDoom
12-06-2016, 02:39 PM
Anybody miss clady yet?


I said it the other day, losing clady was the biggest blow we took, is he still playing? I just wish our all pro LT didn't get the injury bug man, also wish we didnt lose franklin.

It was most certainly not the biggest blow we took. Clady is on IR, again, this time with the Jets. If we had kept him, he'd be there for us too. At least Okung is on the field.

Lynch12
12-06-2016, 03:15 PM
Of course I said a healthy clady, the other day I said when clady started going down and we lost our franchise LT it just rolled down hill from there.

NightTerror218
12-06-2016, 06:29 PM
It was most certainly not the biggest blow we took. Clady is on IR, again, this time with the Jets. If we had kept him, he'd be there for us too. At least Okung is on the field.

I didnt know he was on IR

dogfish
12-06-2016, 08:50 PM
Anybody miss clady yet?

we've all been missing him-- since he disappeared after about his second season. . .

pnbronco
12-07-2016, 12:23 AM
I really miss Vasquez....it seemed like Garcia was better when Louis was around....

I have no idea if he's still in shape but he said that he understood it was just a business decision that he was let go, so who knows.

Simple Jaded
12-07-2016, 01:02 AM
There's no way of knowing if Clady would be on IR had he stayed in Denver.

Valar Morghulis
12-07-2016, 02:17 AM
There's no way of knowing if Clady would be on IR had he stayed in Denver.

True, but I think it's likely!!!

Simple Jaded
12-07-2016, 02:21 AM
True, but I think it's likely!!!

I think all he needed was a little compassion and understanding. After everything he's done for you. Smh

Hawgdriver
12-07-2016, 02:25 AM
Well I'll be damned! Turns out there was a thread about the O-Line all along!

Hawgdriver
12-07-2016, 02:26 AM
Oh, this one. The one about Lynch and Siemian...lol.

dogfish
12-07-2016, 02:46 AM
True, but I think it's likely!!!

when a guy's had as many low body issues as he has, over-compensation can start to stress or weaken other joints. . . furthermore, there is a fairly significant range of inherent flexibility in human joints. . . the looser joints grant more mobility, but can also be less resistant to harm. . . king hates it :D , but luck isn't the only factor that's involved. . . the fact that clady got hurt there doesn't mean he would have here-- but it IS an indicator that the guy is wearing down badly, and the end is probably near. . . elway made the correct assessment-- okung is younger, more athletic at this point, and his injury history doesn't feature as much nasty stuff. . . plus he had strong years in a ZBS scheme in seattle, and we got him on essentially a one-year rental. . . it hasn't panned out, but that doesn't make it a bad decision. . . let's just all cross our fingers that it gets fixed in the off-season. . .

Simple Jaded
12-07-2016, 11:25 PM
http://www.nfl.com/labs/sidelines/oline/desktop/offensive-lines.html

Shocking.

Dapper Dan
12-08-2016, 02:16 AM
This thread could last all season.