My 2cents on the QB competition.

[Broncoknight30]

I heard what Kubiak said today and it was pretty obvious by what he said that Siemian has the advantage. He has a better COMMAND of the offense etc. A few things to take from this whole situation in my opinion.

I think we are all in agreement that Paxton Lynch is the future. When I say future, I mean next year if not later on this year. It should be rather quick I would think.

Having said that, I am pretty sure in order for Siemian to really become the starter, he would really need to stand out. I would think he would need to be so great that there is just no choice whatsoever. The reason for that is the Lynch factor. Sanchez as we all know, and even he knows is a stop gap QB. He is a veteran and it seems to me he understands it.

Here is the question. What if Trevor Siemian is OK? Meaning just like last night. He looked pretty good at times. Then again, he did not guide the team into the end zone. He did not complete the fade routes (I think three of them were thrown.)

I guess what I am getting at is we as fans should be looking forward to a seamless transition into Lynch being the starter. I think we are all hoping for that too. Which is the reason why I am kind of hoping Sanchez gets the starting job. Unless of course Siemian just does something so great that he needs to be put in there.

As a fan I am a bit torn about who I am actually rooting for. Personally, I think Sanchez is the choice. I do think he is fit for this offense. He operated and thrived in it at USC. He has the skill set to operate the stretch zone run since he certainly has the skill to run keeper/bootlegs which is so essential.

I like Siemian. I like his arm. I am not rooting against him. It is just that I do not think he is going to be the second coming of a Joe Montana or Elway.

it is sounding based on what Kubiak said that Siemian is in the lead right now.

[slim]

Siemian looked like a better QB to me last night. Not that Sanchez was bad, but Trevor clearly has a stronger arm and made better throws, IMO.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Did Kubes have a press conference today?

[Broncoknight30]

Did Kubes have a press conference today?

No, I don't think so.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

No, I don't think so.

You started out saying that you heard what Kubiak said today, so I checked on the Broncos' site, and did not see where he had talked today.

[TXBRONC]

I heard what Kubiak said today and it was pretty obvious by what he said that Siemian has the advantage. He has a better COMMAND of the offense etc. A few things to take from this whole situation in my opinion.

I think we are all in agreement that Paxton Lynch is the future. When I say future, I mean next year if not later on this year. It should be rather quick I would think.

Having said that, I am pretty sure in order for Siemian to really become the starter, he would really need to stand out. I would think he would need to be so great that there is just no choice whatsoever. The reason for that is the Lynch factor. Sanchez as we all know, and even he knows is a stop gap QB. He is a veteran and it seems to me he understands it.

Here is the question. What if Trevor Siemian is OK? Meaning just like last night. He looked pretty good at times. Then again, he did not guide the team into the end zone. He did not complete the fade routes (I think three of them were thrown.)

I guess what I am getting at is we as fans should be looking forward to a seamless transition into Lynch being the starter. I think we are all hoping for that too. Which is the reason why I am kind of hoping Sanchez gets the starting job. Unless of course Siemian just does something so great that he needs to be put in there.

As a fan I am a bit torn about who I am actually rooting for. Personally, I think Sanchez is the choice. I do think he is fit for this offense. He operated and thrived in it at USC. He has the skill set to operate the stretch zone run since he certainly has the skill to run keeper/bootlegs which is so essential.

I like Siemian. I like his arm. I am not rooting against him. It is just that I do not think he is going to be the second coming of a Joe Montana or Elway.

it is sounding based on what Kubiak said that Siemian is in the lead right now.

I didn't get that out of the press conference. From the start of the offseason Kubiak has said pretty much the same thing. Siemian has the edge knowledge of this offense. but Sanchez has the edge in real game experience. It seems to me that the guy with more actual games usually has the upper hand. That said, I don't either Siemian or Sanchez separated themselves from one another. While Lynch isn't ready to start I don't think he's that far away from Sanchez and Siemian. Not that coaches listen talking heads but Eric Davis from NFLN said last week that he was of the opinion if is really clear separation among the three quarterbacks then Denver should just go with Lynch. Imo, if Lynch was even with other two then he would leap frog the other two.

[TXBRONC]

You started out saying that you heard what Kubiak said today, so I checked on the Broncos' site, and did not see where he had talked today.

I'm pretty sure he meant last night post game press conference.

[Broncoknight30]

You started out saying that you heard what Kubiak said today, so I checked on the Broncos' site, and did not see where he had talked today.

Yeah, I heard him say it today. I do not know if he said it last night or today. It was on ESPN radio.

[Broncoknight30]

I didn't get that out of the press conference. From the start of the offseason Kubiak has said pretty much the same thing. Siemian has the edge knowledge of this offense. but Sanchez has the edge in real game experience. It seems to me that the guy with more actual games usually has the upper hand. That said, I don't either Siemian or Sanchez separated themselves from one another. While Lynch isn't ready to start I don't think he's that far away from Sanchez and Siemian. Not that coaches listen talking heads but Eric Davis from NFLN said last week that he was of the opinion if is really clear separation among the three quarterbacks then Denver should just go with Lynch. Imo, if Lynch was even with other two then he would leap frog the other two.

Now that would make some sense. However, sometimes it is good to keep a player on the side in order to build his hunger if you will. I do like where you are going with this though. The risk you take (which the risk is there anyway) is you may bring him in too soon and then his confidence is shattered if he does not perform. Once confidence is shattered, it is very very difficult to get it back.

[VonDoom]

Now that would make some sense. However, sometimes it is good to keep a player on the side in order to build his hunger if you will. I do like where you are going with this though. The risk you take (which the risk is there anyway) is you may bring him in too soon and then his confidence is shattered if he does not perform. Once confidence is shattered, it is very very difficult to get it back.

I've been saying this for a while now. I think we all think Lynch has the talent to be the QB of this team for many years, but I don't really want to see him in there right now. I'd rather he get in all the scout team work that he can and learn the system from the ground up. Throwing him out there too early is too risky for me.

For what it's worth, I still maintain that Sanchez starts opening night, but I hope Siemian gets a chance with the first time next week to see if he can win the job.

[Traveler]

Say Kubes selects Siemian as the starter to begin the season, he plays well and we are winning games. It kind of places the team in a bind if Elway is to be believed when he stated Lynch will be ready sooner than we think and he'll get lots of playing time this season. How do they justify pulling Siemian if he's is playing well?

As for the game last night, put me in the Siemian camp. While Sanchez did okay, I just didn't see that command and comfort from him in this offense. It seemed like he was struggling physically, especially on the naked bootlegs.

[Broncoknight30]

Say Kubes selects Siemian as the starter to begin the season, he plays well and we are winning games. It kind of places the team in a bind if Elway is to be believed when he stated Lynch will be ready sooner than we think and he'll get lots of playing time this season. How do they justify pulling Siemian if he's is playing well?

Yes, this is the iceberg I am seeing on the horizon. Unless Siemian is sooooo good, then imo it needs to be Sanchez. The Lynch factor makes it too hard for me to understand what the plan would be.

Dare I say God forbid Siemian wins games and is decent? What then?

It seems like a good problem to have, but these things can be tricky. Does not help with a media constantly pounding questions. I just see a potential for a confusing situation of Siemian wins the starting job. For me, it is not as confusing with Sanchez. Since he along with everyone pretty knows he is a stop gap.

[Mike]

Yes, this is the iceberg I am seeing on the horizon. Unless Siemian is sooooo good, then imo it needs to be Sanchez. The Lynch factor makes it too hard for me to understand what the plan would be.

Dare I say God forbid Siemian wins games and is decent? What then?

It seems like a good problem to have, but these things can be tricky. Does not help with a media constantly pounding questions. I just see a potential for a confusing situation of Siemian wins the starting job. For me, it is not as confusing with Sanchez. Since he along with everyone pretty knows he is a stop gap.

You go with the best QB and worry about tomorrow, tomorrow.

Sanchez wasn't bad, but Siemian was more consistent, has a better arm, and protects the ball better.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

from article:


But if the Broncos believe today Sanchez will be the guy for that game, why halt his momentum? He manned up, I thought, Thursday night against the Bears. He was in a position where he had everything to lose and Siemian had everything to gain.

Yet, Sanchez came through with a terrific opening drive. Against some pressure on at least three passes, he delivered completions, including the last one, a 32-yard touchdown to a ridiculously wide open Demaryius Thomas.

When you convert, in succession, third-and-7, third-and-8 and third-and-9, you’ve done your job as quarterback.

If this next week you drop Sanchez to No. 2, what does that say to him? More importantly, if you play Sanchez behind the Broncos’ second-string offensive line, what would that do to him?

I’m not saying head coach Gary Kubiak should announce Sanchez as the starter Saturday, when training camp reconvenes, or next week when the San Francisco 49ers come in for two scrimmages and a game. To the contrary, I believe 49ers week should count in the competition.

But Sanchez came through when he had to Thursday night. I think the Broncos now need to see how he plays after Kubiak lets him know he is the man.

full article - http://www.9news.com/sports/broncos-next-day-observations-should-sanchez-stick-at-no-1-this-week/296228383

I think Sanchez played very well, considering this offense is all new to him

[WARHORSE]

Lynch looked terrific to me when you take in all the factors.

Doesnt play under center.
Didnt play in a pro offense.
Didnt run a huddle.
Didnt have to call sophisticated plays in the huddle.
A rookie.
Brand new offense.
Brand new terminology.
Pressure of being a first round pick traded up for.
First time under live fire.
Not working with the first team.
Etc. Etc.


Dont tell me he cant play simply because hes a rookie.

Anyone heard of Ben Roethlisberger?
With a stud defense, the rookie, if he keeps making strides, may end up being the best man for the job. His ability jumps off the tv screen.
The arm, the mobility, the calm, the touch, the command......did I say arm?

I was very surprised to see him play under center with that amount of ease. I was very encouraged.

No need to rush him. Not saying he needs to start. But please dont tell me that simply because hes a rookie he cant play game 1.

LOTS of rookie nfl QBs start on game one.

Im hyper enthused about Lynch. So far......hes lookin like a mighty good decision.

[Broncoknight30]

Lynch looked terrific to me when you take in all the factors.

Doesnt play under center.
Didnt play in a pro offense.
Didnt run a huddle.
Didnt have to call sophisticated plays in the huddle.
A rookie.
Brand new offense.
Brand new terminology.
Pressure of being a first round pick traded up for.
First time under live fire.
Not working with the first team.
Etc. Etc.


Dont tell me he cant play simply because hes a rookie.

Anyone heard of Ben Roethlisberger?
With a stud defense, the rookie, if he keeps making strides, may end up being the best man for the job. His ability jumps off the tv screen.
The arm, the mobility, the calm, the touch, the command......did I say arm?

I was very surprised to see him play under center with that amount of ease. I was very encouraged.

No need to rush him. Not saying he needs to start. But please dont tell me that simply because hes a rookie he cant play game 1.

LOTS of rookie nfl QBs start on game one.

Im hyper enthused about Lynch. So far......hes lookin like a mighty good decision.

Yeah, so far so good. I think you hit on what I would rather happen if Sanchez is not going to be the guy. I would rather have Lynch in there. I know the risk (and it is significant) that you may destroy his confidence if he is shoved in there too soon. That is significant and it is something to consider.

Like you said though, he is very protected by the great defense. He essentially would not be asked to score 30 points per game. He has the skill to run that stretch run since he has the skill to run keepers and bootlegs.

I just do not think it is in the plans. To me Siemian makes it confusing. Like someone said, you go with the best QB. Well, I like Siemian, but I have not seen anything that overwhelming about him.

IMO, unless he is overwhelming, then it needs to be either Sanchez or Lynch.

[Ravage!!!]

You go with the best QB and worry about tomorrow, tomorrow.

Sanchez wasn't bad, but Siemian was more consistent, has a better arm, and protects the ball better.

Not according to his last year actually starting for Northwestern.

[BroncoTech]

Considering Sanchez throws as many interceptions as touchdowns historically what I expect is a little bit of everything from Sanchez, pretty much what we saw last night. But you choose the experienced guy because he should be better at protecting the rock. Whether you blame Sanchez for the interception last night or not, it's on his stats.

So if Siemian proves he can take care of the football in preseason it's a clear advantage for him. He has the arm and the familiarity with the offense and I think he's make a good starer. Lynch had a little more zip on the ball, and I like what I'm seeing, maybe hes ready after the bye.

[Broncoknight30]

Considering Sanchez throws as many interceptions as touchdowns historically what I expect is a little bit of everything from Sanchez, pretty much what we saw last night. But you choose the experienced guy because he should be better at protecting the rock. Whether you blame Sanchez for the interception last night or not, it's on his stats.

So if Siemian proves he can take care of the football in preseason it's a clear advantage for him. He has the arm and the familiarity with the offense and I think he's make a good starer. Lynch had a little more zip on the ball, and I like what I'm seeing, maybe hes ready after the bye.


A few things to consider when it comes to Sanchez's INT/TD ratio. Let us look at the success of certain QBs with Kubiak as opposed to what they did elsewhere. Case in point Jake Plummer.

Jake Plummer in Arizona showed flashes, but he was an INT machine. Research those stats with the Cardinals then with Kubiak.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/P/PlumJa00.htm

In his third season he threw 9 TDs and 24 INTs. Read that again. In only one out of the six seasons did he throw more TDs than INTs. Pretty awful. Then with a running game and Kubiak utilizing his significant skills as a bootleg/keeper QB, he all of a sudden thrived.

Same with Brian Griese. In 2000 Griese threw 19 TDs to only 3 INTs. He was not productive at all wherever else he had been.

I say all of that just to remind that Kubiak's system is very QB friendly. Elway knows exactly the skill set he is looking for and Sanchez has that. Not saying he is going to be a legend or anything, but I am confident that he can flourish with Kubes.

[WARHORSE]

Yeah, so far so good. I think you hit on what I would rather happen if Sanchez is not going to be the guy. I would rather have Lynch in there. I know the risk (and it is significant) that you may destroy his confidence if he is shoved in there too soon. That is significant and it is something to consider.

Like you said though, he is very protected by the great defense. He essentially would not be asked to score 30 points per game. He has the skill to run that stretch run since he has the skill to run keepers and bootlegs.

I just do not think it is in the plans. To me Siemian makes it confusing. Like someone said, you go with the best QB. Well, I like Siemian, but I have not seen anything that overwhelming about him.

IMO, unless he is overwhelming, then it needs to be either Sanchez or Lynch.


I can see that.

For me though, out of the three, Lynch passes the eye test best. I just saw the ball coming out on time and quickly. He showed confidence. He moved well......very well.

The guy is fast too.

I just loved what I saw considering everything.

Sanchez passed the eye test too.........until the int. sigh

[Joel]

I've been saying this for a while now. I think we all think Lynch has the talent to be the QB of this team for many years, but I don't really want to see him in there right now. I'd rather he get in all the scout team work that he can and learn the system from the ground up. Throwing him out there too early is too risky for me.
Still struggling to find an argument against this. Something better than an impatient child hunting for the place mom and dad hid his Christmas presents, so he can play with them early. If you break your expensive new toy before Thanksgiving Mr. Elway won't buy you another.

Until unless our multi-season refrain of "our line sucks SO bad" ends, I don't want Lynch on the field. Our blockers can't give him the protection to throw 5 TDs/week or the run support to make that unnecessary. If people think Sanchez is scared of his own shadow, try throwing a raw rookie QB to the wolves behind our Swiss cheese line. I mean, at least let him learn the offense, or, I dunno, HIS TEAMMATES NAMES before expecting him to fill Manning and Elways shoes.


For what it's worth, I still maintain that Sanchez starts opening night, but I hope Siemian gets a chance with the first time next week to see if he can win the job.
Works for me. I feel guilty saying it, but the harsh truth is that if our line gets either or even both of them beaten to a pulp we've lost little. Everyone starts as a rookie, so developing a green line OR green QB is inevitable for every team: But there's no reason to do BOTH at once, and many reasons to avoid that.

[Joel]

A few things to consider when it comes to Sanchez's INT/TD ratio. Let us look at the success of certain QBs with Kubiak as opposed to what they did elsewhere. Case in point Jake Plummer.

Jake Plummer in Arizona showed flashes, but he was an INT machine. Research those stats with the Cardinals then with Kubiak.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/P/PlumJa00.htm

In his third season he threw 9 TDs and 24 INTs. Read that again. In only one out of the six seasons did he throw more TDs than INTs. Pretty awful. Then with a running game and Kubiak utilizing his significant skills as a bootleg/keeper QB, he all of a sudden thrived.

Same with Brian Griese. In 2000 Griese threw 19 TDs to only 3 INTs. He was not productive at all wherever else he had been.

I say all of that just to remind that Kubiak's system is very QB friendly. Elway knows exactly the skill set he is looking for and Sanchez has that. Not saying he is going to be a legend or anything, but I am confident that he can flourish with Kubes.
Sure; as previously discussed, our former NFL backup QB turned QB coach turned HC knows how to get the utmost from any QB. That's how rookie 5th rounder TJ Yates got his first and probably FINAL playoff win. But look at ALL of Griese, Plummer and journeyman turned two-time Pro Bowler Matt Schaubs time with Kubiak: Schaub did the most the longest, but even that ended so badly it got both him AND Kubiak fired. Why'd we get Plummer in the first place? Answer: Because Shanny and Kubes couldn't carry Griese to a second Pro Bowl.

When the QB's just a flat out BUM even Kubiak can't do more than play Three Card Monte with NFL defenses until they have enough tape of the tricks to know all the QBs many crippling disabilities his coach tried to hide for good reason. Then they just take away the few things he does well and force him to do the many things he does poorly. It varies by bum; Griese was a statue helpless outside the pocket, Plummer a sandlot QB helpless INside the pocket, but the net effect's a constant: Abilities so few and narrow that when defenses identify and target them as precisely as Kubiak the only question left is how often our opponents beat the spread.

The biggest lesson from Plummer is probably that even a physically gifted QB can be ruined by demanding a rookie single-handedly lead a bad offense to victory against all the top NFL teams. By the time he got to Denver panic had become a reflex action: He was always uncomfortable and awkward (and looked it) trying to play a DISCIPLINED game with a TALENTED offense because he'd never HAD one long enough to learn HOW.

Let's not do that to Lynch, m'k?

[TXBRONC]

Still struggling to find an argument against this. Something better than an impatient child hunting for the place mom and dad hid his Christmas presents, so he can play with them early. If you break your expensive new toy before Thanksgiving Mr. Elway won't buy you another.

Until unless our multi-season refrain of "our line sucks SO bad" ends, I don't want Lynch on the field. Our blockers can't give him the protection to throw 5 TDs/week or the run support to make that unnecessary. If people think Sanchez is scared of his own shadow, try throwing a raw rookie QB to the wolves behind our Swiss cheese line. I mean, at least let him learn the offense, or, I dunno, HIS TEAMMATES NAMES before expecting him to fill Manning and Elways shoes.


Works for me. I feel guilty saying it, but the harsh truth is that if our line gets either or even both of them beaten to a pulp we've lost little. Everyone starts as a rookie, so developing a green line OR green QB is inevitable for every team: But there's no reason to do BOTH at once, and many reasons to avoid that.

You're the only one who chants unceasingly the line sucks. :2cents:

[OrangeHoof]

This week didn't change my mind about anything. Sanchez moved the offense against Chicago's first team defense (a John Fox defense, no less) and, after the first TD, had nothing to prove on the night. He adjusted to the fact that he was getting pass rush pressure and lofted throws more than zipped throws. He's a solid professional that will make a great back-up when the time comes. He also showed mobility on rollouts which looked so much smoother than either Manning or Ostrich trying to run them.

Lynch, everyone agrees, is the future. Transitioning to Lynch will come in one of three points, barring injury:

Point one: After 10/13 Thurs. nite game at San Diego, giving Lynch extra time to work with the first team offense. This happens if either Sanchez sucks or the Broncos have been losing.

Point two: The bye week after Week 10. A natural point in the season for coaches to switch #1 quarterbacks. If Broncos are playing well with Sanchez or are close to wrapping up a playoff berth, you could see Kubiak unwilling to make a change for change sake.

Point three: At season's end.

At one of those three points, Lynch takes over. Early in the season, it will be Sanchez, Simien and Lynch. By mid-season, it will be Sanchez, Lynch and Simien. Whenever Lynch takes over, it will be Lynch, Sanchez and Simien. Finally, in 2017, it will be Lynch and Simien.

[TXBRONC]

I don't know Hoof. If Sanchez is playing well I can't see him arbitrarily removing him as the starting quarterback if he's playing well and the team is winning. It's one thing to be Peyton Manning and playing horribly while the team is winning and being Mark Sanchez in the same circumstances.

The only circumstances I could see Kubiak pulling Sanchez or Siemian is injury, poor preformance, or the team isn't going to make the playoffs.

[Joel]

You're the only one who chants unceasingly the line sucks. :2cents:
That's never been true, but for two years the whole NFL's been chanting. That wasn't me bashing our line on national TV, it was Mark Schlereth; even that pollyanna John Fox eventually had a press conference where he admitted our line needed improvement. Two years later we don't even know who half the starters are.

Who in their right mind would send a raw rookie QB out behind THAT kind of "protection," with that kind of run "support"?!


I don't know Hoof. If Sanchez is playing well I can't see him arbitrarily removing him as the starting quarterback if he's playing well and the team is winning. It's one thing to be Peyton Manning and playing horribly while the team is winning and being Mark Sanchez in the same circumstances.

The only circumstances I could see Kubiak pulling Sanchez or Siemian is injury, poor preformance, or the team isn't going to make the playoffs.
How is either of those last two scenarios an argument for starting Lynch?

We just won the SB; Elway and Kubiak won't be fired for failing to IMMEDIATELY win another, nor even missing the playoffs. Their jobs are safe unless we're consistently awful for 3-4+ years; permanently crippling Lynch right out of the gate is the "best" way to make that happen.

Let the rookie learn the trivial things like the playbook, the NFL and his teammates names while we find him some blocking worthy of the name. At least if he fails with all of that we'll be able to easily identify the problem and move on to finding its solution, instead of guessing whether it's the QB, the blocking or both.

[Simple Jaded]

Considering Sanchez throws as many interceptions as touchdowns historically what I expect is a little bit of everything from Sanchez, pretty much what we saw last night. But you choose the experienced guy because he should be better at protecting the rock. Whether you blame Sanchez for the interception last night or not, it's on his stats.

So if Siemian proves he can take care of the football in preseason it's a clear advantage for him. He has the arm and the familiarity with the offense and I think he's make a good starer. Lynch had a little more zip on the ball, and I like what I'm seeing, maybe hes ready after the bye.

Siemian had a sure Int hit the ground when the CB didn't even see it go by, threw behind Fowler on a slant.

Also had Latimer down the seam for a TD but checked down to Booker instead.

[OrangeHoof]

Last year the plan was "Peyton is our starter unless he's injured but eventually we want to give our QOTF (Osweiler) sufficient playing time to determine if he's our starter in 2016."

This year the plan is "Sanchez is our starter unless he's injured but eventually we want to give our QOTF (Lynch) sufficient playing time to make him our starter in 2017."

Just like last year, they will juggle that need with winning the division and securing a playoff berth. I expect we'll be nose-to-nose with KC in the division standings most of the year. Oakland needs another year to gel while SD is in decline and can't even decide where their home city is or how to get their first-round pick signed.

If the season goes exceedingly well or exceedingly poorly, I expect Lynch to make some starts late in the year. However, if we *need* a win that week and he's both healthy and productive, they'll be starting Sanchez.

Then again, Dan Marino took over in Week 6 of his rookie season and the Dolphins didn't look back for 17 years.

[TXBRONC]

Last year the plan was "Peyton is our starter unless he's injured but eventually we want to give our QOTF (Osweiler) sufficient playing time to determine if he's our starter in 2016."

This year the plan is "Sanchez is our starter unless he's injured but eventually we want to give our QOTF (Lynch) sufficient playing time to make him our starter in 2017."

Just like last year, they will juggle that need with winning the division and securing a playoff berth. I expect we'll be nose-to-nose with KC in the division standings most of the year. Oakland needs another year to gel while SD is in decline and can't even decide where their home city is or how to get their first-round pick signed.

If the season goes exceedingly well or exceedingly poorly, I expect Lynch to make some starts late in the year. However, if we *need* a win that week and he's both healthy and productive, they'll be starting Sanchez.

Then again, Dan Marino took over in Week 6 of his rookie season and the Dolphins didn't look back for 17 years.

Osweiler doesn't start if Manning is healthy. Even so Kubiak maintained that Manning would start when he was healthy.

If Denver is in dog fight for the division I don't see how Lynch will go on the field barring injury or poor play by whomever is the starter at the time.

I remember when Marino became the startering quarterback. He became the starter because David Woodley was terrible.

[TXBRONC]

That's never been true, but for two years the whole NFL's been chanting. That wasn't me bashing our line on national TV, it was Mark Schlereth; even that pollyanna John Fox eventually had a press conference where he admitted our line needed improvement. Two years later we don't even know who half the starters are.

Who in their right mind would send a raw rookie QB out behind THAT kind of "protection," with that kind of run "support"?!


How is either of those last two scenarios an argument for starting Lynch?

We just won the SB; Elway and Kubiak won't be fired for failing to IMMEDIATELY win another, nor even missing the playoffs. Their jobs are safe unless we're consistently awful for 3-4+ years; permanently crippling Lynch right out of the gate is the "best" way to make that happen.

Let the rookie learn the trivial things like the playbook, the NFL and his teammates names while we find him some blocking worthy of the name. At least if he fails with all of that we'll be able to easily identify the problem and move on to finding its solution, instead of guessing whether it's the QB, the blocking or both.

No team is going to make decisions based on the pissy attitude of know-it-all fans or the national media. Quite honestly you don't what line will be like this year. I understand you think you know it all better than Elway and Kubiak but quite honestly you don't.

What I had to say to Hoof didn't have anything to do with offensive line. You never get it. This team is very good I know it bugs the shit out you but facts are facts Denver is good enough to win with a rookie quarterback at the helm if need be. If Denver run the consistently which I expect they will then there is no reason Lynch couldn't handle the job.

[OrangeHoof]

Osweiler doesn't start if Manning is healthy. Even so Kubiak maintained that Manning would start when he was healthy.

If Denver is in dog fight for the division I don't see how Lynch will go on the field barring injury or poor play by whomever is the starter at the time.

I remember when Marino became the startering quarterback. He became the starter because David Woodley was terrible.

And Sanchez could be terrible but still win because our defense is so good.. just like the Woodley/Strock Dolphins went to a Super Bowl the year before.

It's a long season and there will probably be blowouts in one direction or the other - chances to get Lynch some experience and give the coaches a chance to see how ready/not ready he is to take over. If they believe Lynch gives them a better chance to win than Sanchez, the move might be made despite how the division title stacks up.

[TXBRONC]

And Sanchez could be terrible but still win because our defense is so good.. just like the Woodley/Strock Dolphins went to a Super Bowl the year before.

It's a long season and there will probably be blowouts in one direction or the other - chances to get Lynch some experience and give the coaches a chance to see how ready/not ready he is to take over. If they believe Lynch gives them a better chance to win than Sanchez, the move might be made despite how the division title stacks up.

I basically said the same thing. If the team is winning but Sanchez or Siemian is playing terribly then I could see Lynch replacing one of them if he is ready.

[gregbroncs]

I can see that.

For me though, out of the three, Lynch passes the eye test best. I just saw the ball coming out on time and quickly. He showed confidence. He moved well......very well.

The guy is fast too.

I just loved what I saw considering everything.

Sanchez passed the eye test too.........until the int. sighI like Lynch I see a lot of promise with him. But I think in that game he was set up to look good. 3rd string defense, simple game plan, No high pressure passes into coverage. Hell they were not even trying to convert 3rd downs while he was in. They set the plan up to build his confidence passing the ball and it looked great. I'm not so sure it would if they were trying for 3rd downs, If they did put him in situations to throw for the 1st down under pressure.

[TXBRONC]

I like Lynch I see a lot of promise with him. But I think in that game he was set up to look good. 3rd string defense, simple game plan, No high pressure passes into coverage. Hell they were not even trying to convert 3rd downs while he was in. They set the plan up to build his confidence passing the ball and it looked great. I'm not so sure it would if they were trying for 3rd downs, If they did put him in situations to throw for the 1st down under pressure.

If it was 3rd and long Kubiak was more interested in eating up the clock. I don't remember what Lynch's 3rd down situations were like I can't remember if had many were there was a high proability making them.

[OrangeHoof]

I can recall plenty of game situations when he was in Houston where Kubiak called for a third-down pass in front of the sticks and expected the receiver to pick up the yardage for the first down so whether Lynch threw far enough for a first down or not can't be documented without knowing what Kubiak or Dennison called on the play. Lynch and his receiver may have been executing the play as called and still been short of the first down.

[TXBRONC]

I can recall plenty of game situations when he was in Houston where Kubiak called for a third-down pass in front of the sticks and expected the receiver to pick up the yardage for the first down so whether Lynch threw far enough for a first down or not can't be documented without knowing what Kubiak or Dennison called on the play. Lynch and his receiver may have been executing the play as called and still been short of the first down.

We'll probably never know but imo I think Kubiak wanted him run the plays and not worry down and distance.

[Simple Jaded]

One game?

And so it begins.

[Joel]

Last year the plan was "Peyton is our starter unless he's injured but eventually we want to give our QOTF (Osweiler) sufficient playing time to determine if he's our starter in 2016."

This year the plan is "Sanchez is our starter unless he's injured but eventually we want to give our QOTF (Lynch) sufficient playing time to make him our starter in 2017."
HUGE difference. Sanchez is no first ballot HoFer, and Lynch hasn't been pacing the sideline for three years listening to Elway say, "Wait till next year, kid...." No one's guaranteeing Lynch $37M next year even if he never plays a down THIS year. That said, if Sanchez plays like... Sanchez, I hope Elway and Kubiak can resist the urge to try for a meaningless one-and-done playoff berth at the expense of the franchise QBs long term development (and possibly health.)


No team is going to make decisions based on the pissy attitude of know-it-all fans or the national media. Quite honestly you don't what line will be like this year. I understand you think you know it all better than Elway and Kubiak but quite honestly you don't.

What I had to say to Hoof didn't have anything to do with offensive line. You never get it. This team is very good I know it bugs the shit out you but facts are facts Denver is good enough to win with a rookie quarterback at the helm if need be. If Denver run the consistently which I expect they will then there is no reason Lynch couldn't handle the job.
Right: I don't know better than Elway, you just know better than Schlereth. If we can't BLOCK we can't run any more consistently than we can pass, and our RBs will get beat to Hell fighting to turn -2 into +2 every down (ask CJ about that, or Moreno, or McGahee.)

Quite honestly, NO ONE knows what the line will be like this year, if only because no one knows who HALF THE STARTERS will be. I never said it will be good OR bad (though it's track record and recurring uncertainty aren't auspicious.) What I said was that IF we're flailing halfway through the season it'll be because we once again can't run block OR pass block, so throwing even the most talented raw rookie QB into that mess would be setting him up to fail, not just now, but long term.

[TXBRONC]

HUGE difference. Sanchez is no first ballot HoFer, and Lynch hasn't been pacing the sideline for three years listening to Elway say, "Wait till next year, kid...." No one's guaranteeing Lynch $37M next year even if he never plays a down THIS year. That said, if Sanchez plays like... Sanchez, I hope Elway and Kubiak can resist the urge to try for a meaningless one-and-done playoff berth at the expense of the franchise QBs long term development (and possibly health.)


Right: I don't know better than Elway, you just know better than Schlereth. If we can't BLOCK we can't run any more consistently than we can pass, and our RBs will get beat to Hell fighting to turn -2 into +2 every down (ask CJ about that, or Moreno, or McGahee.)

Quite honestly, NO ONE knows what the line will be like this year, if only because no one knows who HALF THE STARTERS will be. I never said it will be good OR bad (though it's track record and recurring uncertainty aren't auspicious.) What I said was that IF we're flailing halfway through the season it'll be because we once again can't run block OR pass block, so throwing even the most talented raw rookie QB into that mess would be setting him up to fail, not just now, but long term.

Until last season run blocking hasn't been a problem. You do think you know it all. McGahee, Moreno, and Anderson all average over 4 yards per carry. Even with as bad line was last season "mr I know better than every else in freaking world" Anderson and Hillman still averaged well over 4 yards per carry, behind.

Please don't give garbage ass line that you haven't said line will be good or bad. You have done NOTHING but squeal like stuck pig since you arrived here because you know better than everyone what's going on. You have infered all off season that the offensive will be bad.

[Rick]

Jeez it is being acted on like Elway has done NOTHING to try and address the line.

I thought he brought in 2 OT's and drafted a developmental BIG guard this year?

Last year he drafted a guy in the second round.

Shit happens, I don't think he can be blamed last year that his starting LT got hurt in training camp and then the guy he drafted to be the RT also got hurt for the season, forcing us to go with a journeyman tackle and a guy who shouldn't be starting any where in the league at tackle.

Can't really judge this years line yet either as the line hasn't all played yet, our putrid RT from last year started LT this past game while the real starters get healthy. How can you judge ANYTHING on that?

[Slick]

Lynch either has it or he doesn't. If he's the most talented QB I would start him. I don't buy the reasoning that starting as a rookie will stunt his development.

[OrangeHoof]

I think QBs need to get acclimated to the speed of the pro game and the truth that outrunning tacklers is far more difficult for most in the NFL than it was in college. Don't try to be the hero every play but focus on playing for the next play and limit mistakes. I already felt Manziel would be a hard fit in the NFL even if he'd been a straight arrow. His game was too built on ad-libbing.

[TXBRONC]

Lynch either has it or he doesn't. If he's the most talented QB I would start him. I don't buy the reasoning that starting as a rookie will stunt his development.

I fully agree.

[MOtorboat]

Play Sanchez for now. Maybe they'll see something different in camp, but I really see no reason to not enter the first game with Sanchez at the helm.

[Simple Jaded]

Schlereth has talked about how much better the OL looks to him.

[Joel]

Until last season run blocking hasn't been a problem. You do think you know it all. McGahee, Moreno, and Anderson all average over 4 yards per carry. Even with as bad line was last season "mr I know better than every else in freaking world" Anderson and Hillman still averaged well over 4 yards per carry, behind.
Big deal: So did the whole NFL. The difference is the rest of the NFL didn't have RBs leading the NFL in POST-CONTACT yards like CJ did last year or McGahee did in 2011. When your runners give you a couple more yards than every other teams runners but you STILL only have average gains, what's that say of your blocking?


Please don't give garbage ass line that you haven't said line will be good or bad. You have done NOTHING but squeal like stuck pig since you arrived here because you know better than everyone what's going on. You have infered all off season that the offensive will be bad.
No, what I've done all season is what I've done for many seasons: Note that LAST seasons line and many before it were TERRIBLE, so there's good reason to expect this years will be at least below average, which is bad news for our running, passing and even PUNTING. And every year the guys with the orange lenses come along to dismiss that and praise an offensive line whose chief accomplishment is wearing the right colored jerseys.

You're completely right that this convo could be copied and pasted from ANY recent preseason:

Our elite 2015 offensive line proved I was delusionally ignorant to doubt it
Our elite 2014 offensive line proved I was delusionally ignorant to doubt it
Our elite 2013 offensive line proved I was delusionally ignorant to doubt it.

That one's my personal fave, because of the running mantra of "Dude, look at our sack totals: They're as low as—every season Manning had his lightning quick reads and releases in Denver." I was out of my mind and full of myself to suggest HIS eliteness might be concealing our lines ineptitude, but by the middle of 2014, when age and injury began slowing him down, suddenly a whole Hell of a lot of people paid for the value of their opinions were saying the same.

I meant what I said: I don't know if it'll be bad or good this year. Realistically, I think (or at least hope) it can only go up from 2015. But if you want to claim my opinions are baseless because this time last year I was saying our 2015 line sucked and this time the year before I was saying our 2014 line sucked, whom does the concrete factual evidence as well as a lot of veteran NFL player analysis support?

I don't know if it'll be good or bad, but do know 2/5 starters names are written in pencil, and WHICH names depends on whose depth chart we're viewing. And I know if it's not MUCH better than last year, our offense is in trouble, because neither Elway nor Manning will trot out of the tunnel to save us.


Jeez it is being acted on like Elway has done NOTHING to try and address the line.

I thought he brought in 2 OT's and drafted a developmental BIG guard this year?

Last year he drafted a guy in the second round.
Elway very belatedly began addressing a serious longstanding problem last year (no, drafting guys in the 4th and 5th rounds of previous seasons don't count.)


Shit happens, I don't think he can be blamed last year that his starting LT got hurt in training camp and then the guy he drafted to be the RT also got hurt for the season, forcing us to go with a journeyman tackle and a guy who shouldn't be starting any where in the league at tackle.

Can't really judge this years line yet either as the line hasn't all played yet, our putrid RT from last year started LT this past game while the real starters get healthy. How can you judge ANYTHING on that?
No, last years injuries aren't Elways fault, and yes, it's too soon to know wtf we've got or will have in the trenches this year. 2015 set the bar in the basement, so I expect at least SOME improvement from another year of Dennison. But it must be a FAR better for our offensive to be effective with a journeyman QB replacing a first ballot HoFer, or to keep CJ healthy enough we stop talking about how he led the NFL in this or that half of the season and start talking about him as a candidate for SEASON rushing leader.


Lynch either has it or he doesn't. If he's the most talented QB I would start him. I don't buy the reasoning that starting as a rookie will stunt his development.
I bet Von WareWolfe could explain it. ;) Or David Carr, or Jim Plunkett; probably Andrew Luck by this point (his dad and Peytons definitely could.)


Schlereth has talked about how much better the OL looks to him.
Well, that's a better informed opinion than two guys arguing about it on the internet from their couches. I certainly HOPE he's right, but "better" is a relative term, and 2015 left us a very long way to go, while 2016s QBs leave us far less margin for error.

[Broncoknight30]

Well, that's a better informed opinion than two guys arguing about it on the internet from their couches. I certainly HOPE he's right, but "better" is a relative term, and 2015 left us a very long way to go, while 2016s QBs leave us far less margin for error.

Last year's QB play was some of the worst QB play I have seen here. Not since the days of Matt Robinson. Literally that bad out of Manning. 9 TDs and 17 ints? 33rd ranked QB? The SB ineptitude behind Manning actually broke the SB record for ineptitude held by Craig Morton in SB XII. I think the Broncos were 1 for 14 on 3rd downs and that was the worst conversion rate in the history of the SB.

I am pretty confident that this offense will operate far better, even under Sanchez (or whomever). It typically takes a little while for an offense to start to reflect the philosophy of the coach. Now, Kubiak and Elway are getting the QBs that they see having that skillset to run that stretch, which requires a QB that is nimble on their feet and can run those bootleg keepers. Manning, was woefully inadequate to run it. Hence the make shift patch work offense we saw last year. IMO, it was nothing short of miraculous they were able to pull it out. Still can't believe they actually they did it. Shows just how valuable a great defense is.

Anyway, you seem to be implying with the comment that the QB situation is worse than last year. Not true IMO. I think it is far better for what Kubiak wants. I know they have improved an OL that struggled last year. In order for this offense to run, it also requires an OL that is agile. Typically smaller and more agile.

I think this offense is going to be a big improvement as far as the running game. I thought the defense could take a step back with the loss of Malik Jackson, cause that push from the inside was as valuable as the edge rushers. Maybe even more so. It has been the kryptonite of Tom Brady through out his career. It seems to me that the defense is going to be just fine. It least it seems they have adequately replaced Malik's production.

[Rick]

Big deal: So did the whole NFL. The difference is the rest of the NFL didn't have RBs leading the NFL in POST-CONTACT yards like CJ did last year or McGahee did in 2011. When your runners give you a couple more yards than every other teams runners but you STILL only have average gains, what's that say of your blocking?


No, what I've done all season is what I've done for many seasons: Note that LAST seasons line and many before it were TERRIBLE, so there's good reason to expect this years will be at least below average, which is bad news for our running, passing and even PUNTING. And every year the guys with the orange lenses come along to dismiss that and praise an offensive line whose chief accomplishment is wearing the right colored jerseys.

You're completely right that this convo could be copied and pasted from ANY recent preseason:

Our elite 2015 offensive line proved I was delusionally ignorant to doubt it
Our elite 2014 offensive line proved I was delusionally ignorant to doubt it
Our elite 2013 offensive line proved I was delusionally ignorant to doubt it.

That one's my personal fave, because of the running mantra of "Dude, look at our sack totals: They're as low as—every season Manning had his lightning quick reads and releases in Denver." I was out of my mind and full of myself to suggest HIS eliteness might be concealing our lines ineptitude, but by the middle of 2014, when age and injury began slowing him down, suddenly a whole Hell of a lot of people paid for the value of their opinions were saying the same.

I meant what I said: I don't know if it'll be bad or good this year. Realistically, I think (or at least hope) it can only go up from 2015. But if you want to claim my opinions are baseless because this time last year I was saying our 2015 line sucked and this time the year before I was saying our 2014 line sucked, whom does the concrete factual evidence as well as a lot of veteran NFL player analysis support?

I don't know if it'll be good or bad, but do know 2/5 starters names are written in pencil, and WHICH names depends on whose depth chart we're viewing. And I know if it's not MUCH better than last year, our offense is in trouble, because neither Elway nor Manning will trot out of the tunnel to save us.


Elway very belatedly began addressing a serious longstanding problem last year (no, drafting guys in the 4th and 5th rounds of previous seasons don't count.)


No, last years injuries aren't Elways fault, and yes, it's too soon to know wtf we've got or will have in the trenches this year. 2015 set the bar in the basement, so I expect at least SOME improvement from another year of Dennison. But it must be a FAR better for our offensive to be effective with a journeyman QB replacing a first ballot HoFer, or to keep CJ healthy enough we stop talking about how he led the NFL in this or that half of the season and start talking about him as a candidate for SEASON rushing leader.


I bet Von WareWolfe could explain it. ;) Or David Carr, or Jim Plunkett; probably Andrew Luck by this point (his dad and Peytons definitely could.)


Well, that's a better informed opinion than two guys arguing about it on the internet from their couches. I certainly HOPE he's right, but "better" is a relative term, and 2015 left us a very long way to go, while 2016s QBs leave us far less margin for error.


The point is Joel, that you are kicking a dead horse.

Everyone knows, including Elway, that the line isn't the greatest.

For a couple of years now he has tried to address it. Wait till he STOPS addressing it before going all doom and gloom.

Food for thought: we had a average to below average line and won the super bowl. Dallas has probably the best line in football and they managed to get the QB killed and finished 4-12.

It doesn't take a line, it takes a team.

[Mike]

Play Sanchez for now. Maybe they'll see something different in camp, but I really see no reason to not enter the first game with Sanchez at the helm.

Other than pick 6's and dumb kneel downs in a 2 minute goal-line situation? Other than not being able to out-right be better than a second year 7th round draft pick? He hasn't done anything to stand out as the starter, so why give him the job? Because he is a vet? A shitty vet that couldn't hack it on other teams?

[NightTrainLayne]

Schlereth has talked about how much better the OL looks to him.

Yesterday Sirius/XM NFL was at Broncos camp.

Pat Kirwin & Jim Miller, along with Chris Harris, Von Miller and others all raved about how much better the o-line is this season.

The problem is, we just haven't seen them yet. Chris Harris really went out of his way to talk about how great they are, Okung especially.

We'll see. I was pleasantly surprised, and it got me pumped up for the first time this off-season.

As to the thread topic, Kirwin & Miller both loved Siemien, but think Sanchez will likely get the nod to start the season, if for no other reason is that it gives the option to go to Siemien later if needed, without gambling on Lynch.

Kirwin's criteria he thinks should apply are these three:

1. Who can get the ball to our dynamic receivers consistently.

2. Who can protect against turnovers the best.

3. Who understands the offense the best & can run it all.

In my mind, looking at that list, Siemien has a chance of being that guy. I think this next week, and this next pre-season game and practices against the 49ers will set it in concrete whether it's Sanchez or Siemien.

If it's 50/50, Sanchez will get the nod due to his experience I believe.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Schlereth has talked about how much better the OL looks to him.

That's all I need to hear. Schlereth pulls no punches when it comes to analyzing the Broncos.

[Slick]

I don't see your response as a valid reason why Lynch shouldn't start if Gary thinks he's the best of the three, Joel.

[Broncoknight30]

Other than pick 6's and dumb kneel downs in a 2 minute goal-line situation? Other than not being able to out-right be better than a second year 7th round draft pick? He hasn't done anything to stand out as the starter, so why give him the job? Because he is a vet? A shitty vet that couldn't hack it on other teams?

As I mentioned before, QBs tend to flourish in this system under Kubiak than they do in other systems. Jake Plummer INT/TD ratio was horrific before he came to the Broncos. He had the skill set that is necessary. He evolved into an effective pro bowl QB under Kubiak.

What Sanchez did or did not do with other teams should be considered, but in a lot of ways it is also a fallacy. Siemian for that matter has proved far less. Meaning, he has not proved a thing.

I am not sure how the situation will play out in getting Lynch in there if they decide to go with an unproven commodity like Siemian. It is not exactly a big secret to Sanchez that he is a stop gap player.


Exactly what have you seen from Siemian that makes you think he is the obvious choice? Is it only that he is NOT Sanchez? I just think there are potential more complications that arise when they decide to go to Lynch if Siemian is made the starter.

We have a few more preseason games. I have not seen all of this clear evidence that Siemian is head and shoulders above anyone at this point. Regardless of what Kubiak said. Now, it may very be that he is significantly ahead. I did not see enough out of him in that second quarter against the Bears to come up with anything empathetic as you seem to be about him. He did not produce a TD.

[Mike]

As I mentioned before, QBs tend to flourish in this system under Kubiak than they do in other systems. Jake Plummer INT/TD ratio was horrific before he came to the Broncos. He had the skill set that is necessary. He evolved into an effective pro bowl QB under Kubiak.

What Sanchez did or did not do with other teams should be considered, but in a lot of ways it is also a fallacy. Siemian for that matter has proved far less. Meaning, he has not proved a thing.

I am not sure how the situation will play out in getting Lynch in there if they decide to go with an unproven commodity like Siemian. It is not exactly a big secret to Sanchez that he is a stop gap player.


Exactly what have you seen from Siemian that makes you think he is the obvious choice? Is it only that he is NOT Sanchez? I just think there are potential more complications that arise when they decide to go to Lynch if Siemian is made the starter.

We have a few more preseason games. I have not seen all of this clear evidence that Siemian is head and shoulders above anyone at this point. Regardless of what Kubiak said. Now, it may very be that he is significantly ahead. I did not see enough out of him in that second quarter against the Bears to come up with anything empathetic as you seem to be about him. He did not produce a TD.

Prove to me that Sanchez is Jake Plummer and I will take your point. Until, then you are grasping at straws with your first argument. Different players respond differently, just because it worked for one doesn't mean it will bear the same result for the other.

Sanchez has proven that he is very competent to throw pick 6's during his short stay in Denver. He has proven that he doesn't know how to run a 2 minute offense.

He has also proven that he cannot beat out a second year 7 round draft pick who has proven "nothing."

We know what we know about Sanchez. He hasn't been good enough to cut it with two other teams, has moments of ok play interrupted by stupid decision making and turnovers. That won't change here in Denver as already seen in training camp and in the first preseason game.

Yeah, I would rather give Siemian a shot. I like his poise, delivery, and composure. He also has a better arm and most importantly protects the ball, which will help Denver's strength....their defense. We know Sanchez's upside and it is shit, we don't know Siemian's yet.

[Broncoknight30]

Prove to me that Sanchez is Jake Plummer and I will take your point. Until, then you are grasping at straws with your first argument. Different players respond differently, just because it worked for one doesn't mean it will bear the same result for the other.

Sanchez has proven that he is very competent to throw pick 6's during his short stay in Denver. He has proven that he doesn't know how to run a 2 minute offense.

He has also proven that he cannot beat out a second year 7 round draft pick who has proven "nothing."

We know what we know about Sanchez. He hasn't been good enough to cut it with two other teams, has moments of ok play interrupted by stupid decision making and turnovers. That won't change here in Denver as already seen in training camp and in the first preseason game.

Yeah, I would rather give Siemian a shot. I like his poise, delivery, and composure. He also has a better arm and most importantly protects the ball, which will help Denver's strength....their defense. We know Sanchez's upside and it is shit, we don't know Siemian's yet.

Jake Plummer was not the ONLY QB to flourish under Kubes offense. Brian Griese was also a pro bowler where he threw 19TDs to 3 INTs in 2000. Schaub also looked good (at least for a few seasons) with Kubes. Heck, we all know it is Shanahan's offense and we can look at how RGIII did with Shanahan. At least that rookie season when he was healthy. He flourished. Even Jay poopy pants Cutler made a pro bowl with this offense.

There is a lot evidence that indicates how QB friendly the system is and we know that Sanchez did run it at USC. Trust that Elway sees that along with the skill he has to run the stretch.

I am not saying he is going to be Joe Montana. With this defense there is a lot less pressure on him and he will not need to produce 30 points per game. The offense under Sanchez will be a lot better than what it was under Manning last year. I am confident with that. Then again, it would operate better with Siemian.

Now, you are saying Siemian protects the ball better. You are basing that on what you are seeing in practice? Just know that neither of these two are the future.

[Mike]

Jake Plummer was not the ONLY QB to flourish under Kubes offense. Brian Griese was also a pro bowler where he threw 19TDs to 3 INTs in 2000. Schaub also looked good (at least for a few seasons) with Kubes. Heck, we all know it is Shanahan's offense and we can look at how RGIII did with Shanahan. At least that rookie season when he was healthy. He flourished. Even Jay poopy pants Cutler made a pro bowl with this offense.

There is a lot evidence that indicates how QB friendly the system is and we know that Sanchez did run it at USC. Trust that Elway sees that along with the skill he has to run the stretch.

I am not saying he is going to be Joe Montana. With this defense there is a lot less pressure on him and he will not need to produce 30 points per game. The offense under Sanchez will be a lot better than what it was under Manning last year. I am confident with that. Then again, it would operate better with Siemian.

Now, you are saying Siemian protects the ball better. You are basing that on what you are seeing in practice? Just know that neither of these two are the future.

Does it speak in his defense that he cannot beat a 2nd year 7th round draft pick?

You have no basis to say that this offense would be better than with Manning. Manning's deteriorating abilities was masked by his genius football mind. Sanchez's slight talent over Manning's worst still can't make up his idiot football mind.

Thanks for pointing out that these guys aren't the future. I didn't know that. I do know that you can't polish a turd....and Sanchez is a turd.

[MOtorboat]

Other than pick 6's and dumb kneel downs in a 2 minute goal-line situation? Other than not being able to out-right be better than a second year 7th round draft pick? He hasn't done anything to stand out as the starter, so why give him the job? Because he is a vet? A shitty vet that couldn't hack it on other teams?

I doubt they are going to base their decision on one goal line stand and a second-hand account of that goal line stand in which the observer and the members of this message board have no clue what plays were being called, what the defense knew about the situation or what players were instructed to do.

But I suppose that's just a guess on my part. That one five minute interaction could very well be the deciding factor.

[MOtorboat]

Does it speak in his defense that he cannot beat a 2nd year 7th round draft pick?

You have no basis to say that this offense would be better than with Manning. Manning's deteriorating abilities was masked by his genius football mind. Sanchez's slight talent over Manning's worst still can't make up his idiot football mind.

Thanks for pointing out that these guys aren't the future. I didn't know that. I do know that you can't polish a turd....and Sanchez is a turd.

Frankly, I don't think the coaching staff cares where they were drafted.

[Broncoknight30]

Does it speak in his defense that he cannot beat a 2nd year 7th round draft pick?

You have no basis to say that this offense would be better than with Manning. Manning's deteriorating abilities was masked by his genius football mind. Sanchez's slight talent over Manning's worst still can't make up his idiot football mind.

Thanks for pointing out that these guys aren't the future. I didn't know that. I do know that you can't polish a turd....and Sanchez is a turd.

Manning's genius? They won in spite of his play last year. His genius translated into a 1 for 14 on third down conversions in the SB along with a horrific boneheaded int. He had a horrible super bowl. He had a horrific year, which translated into him being ranked 33rd in passer rating.

As of right now (unless I am missing something ) Sanchez is the starter. Have you heard that he is not?

The overall offense will be better under whichever QB is behind center than it was under Manning. I am confident that the running game will be ranked higher than 17th.

Btw, the running shot up significantly due to the 7 games Osweiler started. First two games under Osweiler, they rushed for 170 yards and 179 yards as a team in back to back weeks.

If not for Osweiler coming in, the Broncos rushing was ranked 30th.

We will see better balance and far better production from the running game. Also, I am confident the ints will be way down.

We will see. I am sure glad I enlightened you that neither of the two are the future. My distinct pleasure.

[NightTerror218]

If you start siemen and he plays well big question will be why did you draft lynch knowing you had this guy already on roster?

Siemen was not impressive last season. And at least Sanchez is seasoned in real games.

When look at sanchez people only see the bad. But look at how he came in here and tried to be a leader right off the bat. That was impressive. He also had bettwr stats with phili then he did giants. Kubials offebse asks less from the QB in general.

[BroncoJoe]

Damn. Mike really hates Sanchez. It's almost a Tebow level of hatred.

[NightTrainLayne]

Sanchez has so much negative baggage following him from New York.

Last week, I saw a QB drive us down for an opening drive TD to kick off the game.

I can't remember the last time we had an opening drive TD.

[Mike]

If you start siemen and he plays well big question will be why did you draft lynch knowing you had this guy already on roster?

Siemen was not impressive last season. And at least Sanchez is seasoned in real games.

When look at sanchez people only see the bad. But look at how he came in here and tried to be a leader right off the bat. That was impressive. He also had bettwr stats with phili then he did giants. Kubials offebse asks less from the QB in general.

Don't take this the wrong way, this isn't an attack on you, but that is the dumbest freaking logic. Don't start a guy who may play well because you just drafted a QB? It's just all kinds of stupid. You play the best and deal with the situation later...if it ever comes to fruition.

Siemian was impressive in the preseason. He looked better in his first preseason than Brock did in his previous preseasons and maybe as good as he did last preseason. He has at least been as impressive as Sanchez this preseason seeing as how Sanchez can't win the starting gig.

I liked what Sanchez did when he came here, despite my reservations about his playing ability. I had hoped for the best after that and hoping that Kubiak could do something with him. But he continues to have problems with turnovers in practice and had 1 turnover in 2 possessions in the preseason against a meh Bears defense with a vanilla gameplan.

I just would rather go with a guy that we don't know his upside vs a guy who has already hit his upside and it consistently involves turnovers.

No, I don't hate Sanchez. I don't think he is a good QB and don't think he should be the starter though.

[TXBRONC]

Sanchez has so much negative baggage following him from New York.

Last week, I saw a QB drive us down for an opening drive TD to kick off the game.

I can't remember the last time we had an opening drive TD.

The three years prior the offense was one of best offenses in the League so it's not like the offense has been a chronic problem. Yes, Sanchez had opening drive touchdown I don't think that is reason enough to make him the starter. I haven't seen camp reports that say Sanchez is clearly better than the other two quarterbacks. Right now it seems that the only thing Sanchez has over his competition is experience. If that's enough for Kubiak then so be it.

[NightTrainLayne]

The three years prior the offense was one of best offenses in the League so it's not like the offense has been a chronic problem. Yes, Sanchez had opening drive touchdown I don't think that is reason enough to make him the starter. I haven't seen camp reports that say Sanchez is clearly better than the other two quarterbacks. Right now it seems that the only thing Sanchez has over his competition is experience. If that's enough for Kubiak then so be it.

My only point is that last year (and the end of the season before that) we were not scoring opening drive TDs.

Kubiak's offense has only been the offense for the last year.

[NightTerror218]

Don't take this the wrong way, this isn't an attack on you, but that is the dumbest freaking logic. Don't start a guy who may play well because you just drafted a QB? It's just all kinds of stupid. You play the best and deal with the situation later...if it ever comes to fruition.

Siemian was impressive in the preseason. He looked better in his first preseason than Brock did in his previous preseasons and maybe as good as he did last preseason. He has at least been as impressive as Sanchez this preseason seeing as how Sanchez can't win the starting gig.

I liked what Sanchez did when he came here, despite my reservations about his playing ability. I had hoped for the best after that and hoping that Kubiak could do something with him. But he continues to have problems with turnovers in practice and had 1 turnover in 2 possessions in the preseason against a meh Bears defense with a vanilla gameplan.

I just would rather go with a guy that we don't know his upside vs a guy who has already hit his upside and it consistently involves turnovers.

No, I don't hate Sanchez. I don't think he is a good QB and don't think he should be the starter though.

Dont give me that bull of not an attack and then then say crap.

What i am saying is kubiak and elway know what they have in siemen. Why draft a new qb if you know he can play well. We have see what kubiak can do with lame duck QBs. I am saying it will raise questions if siemen is a starter then why draft lynch if sanvhez was ment to be stop gap for lynch. Why the massive man hunt for QB if you knew what siemen could do. I dont buy the hype into siemen because so far danchez is still leading #1 reps.

I would rather play lynch over siemen if he does indeed win the QB battle.

I think siemen was not impressive last preseason....he was known for his arm but not being accurate.

Both QBs have a lot of ints in camp so far. But figure sanchez is in new offense, siemen already year into system.

What impressed me the most was sanchezs pose in pocket to take a huge hit and make the pass.....like the TD.

[NightTerror218]

The three years prior the offense was one of best offenses in the League so it's not like the offense has been a chronic problem. Yes, Sanchez had opening drive touchdown I don't think that is reason enough to make him the starter. I haven't seen camp reports that say Sanchez is clearly better than the other two quarterbacks. Right now it seems that the only thing Sanchez has over his competition is experience. If that's enough for Kubiak then so be it.

Sanchez is learning new system which he will only get better at.

[TXBRONC]

Sanchez is learning new system which he will only get better at.

And so will Lynch and Siemian.

[NightTerror218]

And so will Lynch and Siemian.

Siemian already has a year underbelt.

Just say a video critiquing Lynch. They were very impressed with his progression and said kubiak has been masterful with him. Mentioning his footwork and drops as extremely impressive. Reading defenses is much better as well. Needs to learn athleticism wont hwlp as much in nfl as it did in college, guys are faster.

[gregbroncs]

Sanchez has so much negative baggage following him from New York.

Last week, I saw a QB drive us down for an opening drive TD to kick off the game.

I can't remember the last time we had an opening drive TD.Yea he did do that. He also threw a stupid INT.

[Simple Jaded]

I can't be the only one who saw a sure Seimian Int hit the ground, it was a worse pass than the one Sanchez threw. I don't even care, btw, all QB's throw Int's.

[Joel]

I don't see your response as a valid reason why Lynch shouldn't start if Gary thinks he's the best of the three, Joel.
I just don't want our talented young franchise QB permanently crippled (perhaps literally) because he has no protection OR run support and we can't bear missing the playoffs even ONCE. Remember when Shannys rookie QB finally got him back to the playoffs? And what it did to BOTH their careers?

[Hawgdriver]

I don't see your response as a valid . . ., Joel.

fify, sigworthy

/petty ad hominem

[Joel]

I don't see your response as a valid . . ., Joel.fify, sigworthy

/petty ad hominem
My response was a perfectly valid Joel. ;)

[Hawgdriver]

My response was a perfectly valid Joel. ;)

haha love it ;)

[EastCoastBronco]

If our defence plays the way it did last year we could have a half trained squirrel as a QB and still make a run at The Show.

[TXBRONC]

If our defence plays the way it did last year we could have a half trained squirrel as a QB and still make a run at The Show.

Manning was fully trained, so the squirrel would have to be fully trained.

[Mike]

I can't be the only one who saw a sure Seimian Int hit the ground, it was a worse pass than the one Sanchez threw. I don't even care, btw, all QB's throw Int's.

That was a deep ball....on a defensive offsides. He had nothing to lose with the pass. It shows maturity to understand the situation and take a shot.

[Mike]

If our defence plays the way it did last year we could have a half trained squirrel as a QB and still make a run at The Show.

I disagree. We wouldn't have won the SD game and home-field advantage without Manning coming in and righting the ship in the second half of that game. The defense played well, but were on it's heals and the offense kept turning the ball over. Despite Manning's inability to make good throws, his intelligence helped win that game. It takes more than a half-trained squirrel.

The defense is good, but we can't afford to turn the ball over a bunch and put them in bad positions. We also won a lot of close games and got some lucky bounces. Can't expect that to happen either. We need a ball control offense, that keeps the defense fresh, and doesn't turn the ball over.

[Slick]

I just don't want our talented young franchise QB permanently crippled (perhaps literally) because he has no protection OR run support and we can't bear missing the playoffs even ONCE. Remember when Shannys rookie QB finally got him back to the playoffs? And what it did to BOTH their careers?

For every example you might try to use showing a rookie who started and turned out to be bad/mediocre, I can make the same case for guys who started as rookies, struggled, and turned out to be good to great QBs.

I understand your point, I just don't agree with it.

[NightTerror218]

I disagree. We wouldn't have won the SD game and home-field advantage without Manning coming in and righting the ship in the second half of that game. The defense played well, but were on it's heals and the offense kept turning the ball over. Despite Manning's inability to make good throws, his intelligence helped win that game. It takes more than a half-trained squirrel.

The defense is good, but we can't afford to turn the ball over a bunch and put them in bad positions. We also won a lot of close games and got some lucky bounces. Can't expect that to happen either. We need a ball control offense, that keeps the defense fresh, and doesn't turn the ball over.

You dont know that. Half time adjustments could have been the change.

How is that magic 8 ball working?

[TXBRONC]

You dont know that. Half time adjustments could have been the change.

How is that magic 8 ball working?

Hey Elway said they needed a change at quarterback. There are two people I trust have a "feel" for what needs to happen. Kubiak and Elway have that sense.

[NightTerror218]

Hey Elway said they needed change at quarterback. There are two people I trust have a "feel" for what needs to happen. Kubiak and Elway have that sense.

I am saying you cant saw what ifs. The whole team played bad and peyton came in thibgs turned around. But WR stopped dropping passes, OL started to block better, everyone held onto ball better. I can not say nor can anyone that a halftime adjustments were not the reason for the team playing better.

Peyton could very well have been the spark but i just do think the team would have kept making those mistakes the whole game in general. Because peyton DID NOT come in playing lights out at all. He was still mediocre.

[Mike]

You dont know that. Half time adjustments could have been the change.

How is that magic 8 ball working?

Lol, you salty?

[Broncoknight30]

I am saying you cant saw what ifs. The whole team played bad and peyton came in thibgs turned around. But WR stopped dropping passes, OL started to block better, everyone held onto ball better. I can not say nor can anyone that a halftime adjustments were not the reason for the team playing better.

Peyton could very well have been the spark but i just do think the team would have kept making those mistakes the whole game in general. Because peyton DID NOT come in playing lights out at all. He was still mediocre.

Especially and significantly mediocre in the SB. Worst play of a winning SB QB. Heck, even worse than most of the losing QBs.

Osweiler went toe to toe with Brady in the driving snow, led the team from 14 down in the 4th. Look up the last time the Pats had let a 14 point lead go in the 4th.

5 and 2 as a starter. Manning had 9 TDs to 17 Ints. We are still saying Manning was the difference.

While he "might" have been the difference in that Charger game, how about that chiefs game where he threw 4 picks in like a half?

I see these facts are not going to do much. Went way off topic with Manning anyway.

Bottom line for me is IF Siemian does not show a substantial difference, then I think it needs to be sanchez. I think the overall offense will be far more consistent with what Kubiak wants to do, regardless of who the QB is.

[TXBRONC]

Bottom line for me is IF Siemian does not show a substantial difference, then I think it needs to be sanchez. I think the overall offense will be far more consistent with what Kubiak wants to do, regardless of who the QB is.

I look at it in just the opposite way. If Sanchez isn't substantially better why not go with the younger player? Sanchez is the one with experience and yet hasn't been able to separate himself from Lynch or Siemian. Lynch and Siemian have higher ceilings but I suspect that Kubiak will go with Sanchez not because he's better but because he's experienced.

[Simple Jaded]

That was a deep ball....on a defensive offsides. He had nothing to lose with the pass. It shows maturity to understand the situation and take a shot.

No, it wasn't. It was a slant that went behind the CB covering the WR.

[Simple Jaded]

No, it wasn't. It was a slant that went behind the CB covering the WR.

It was 3rd and 5 from their own 41 with 10:20 left in 2nd quarter. Slant pass to Fowler, not even close, had 100% chance of being a Pick 6 if the CB doesnt have his head up his ass.

[Joel]

For every example you might try to use showing a rookie who started and turned out to be bad/mediocre, I can make the same case for guys who started as rookies, struggled, and turned out to be good to great QBs.

I understand your point, I just don't agree with it.
EVERY example? I believe you'll find the numbers on each side are nowhere near that even, but since I'm working OT again I'll have to wait till at least this weekend to provide a list to be matched.

[Broncoknight30]

I look at it in just the opposite way. If Sanchez isn't substantially better why not go with the younger player? Sanchez is the one with experience and yet hasn't been able to separate himself from Lynch or Siemian. Lynch and Siemian have higher ceilings but I suspect that Kubiak will go with Sanchez not because he's better but because he's experienced.

Cause Siemian is the not "the future." I would rather have Lynch in there if they are all pretty much the same. Why? Cause Lynch is the future. The only way imo Siemian should be put in there is if he is just so good that there is no choice. I have seen him do pretty well. I also like him, but he is not slated as the future. Lynch is. Which may make the transition from Siemian to Lynch a little more difficult than it would be from Sanchez to Lynch.

The reason is Sanchez understands he is a stop gap QB. Siemian is competing for something more substantial.

[TXBRONC]

It was 3rd and 5 from their own 41 with 10:20 left in 2nd quarter. Slant pass to Fowler, not even close, had 100% chance of being a Pick 6 if the CB doesnt have his head up his ass.

I don't remember that Jaded. I just re-watched the game again last night and the play that Mike is talking about is only one I remember. I'll go back over it this afternoon and see if I can find what you're talking about.

[TXBRONC]

Cause Siemian is the not "the future." I would rather have Lynch in there if they are all pretty much the same. Why? Cause Lynch is the future. The only way imo Siemian should be put in there is if he is just so good that there is no choice. I have seen him do pretty well. I also like him, but he is not slated as the future. Lynch is. Which may make the transition from Siemian to Lynch a little more difficult than it would be from Sanchez to Lynch.

The reason is Sanchez understands he is a stop gap QB. Siemian is competing for something more substantial.

On NFLN Eric Davis said that in his opinion if Sanchez has done anything to separated himself from the other two then Broncos should good with Lynch. I agree with that idea. What I was saying was with assumption that Lynch really isn't seen as ready by Kubiak.

[Northman]

We have no idea how good Siemien is or isnt at this point. Case in point i dont think NE really knew what they had in Tom Brady before he actually took the field, the Chargers had a dilemma when they drafted Rivers and then Brees ended up playing extremely well. At this point Siemien and Lynch are on the same level in terms of uncertainty. We have no idea if Lynch is the future or not because he hasnt actually showed anything yet to make that determination. At the end of the day if both Siemien and Lynch play well its a good problem to have. The bonus would be if Sanchez does well.

[Broncoknight30]

We have no idea how good Siemien is or isnt at this point. Case in point i dont think NE really knew what they had in Tom Brady before he actually took the field, the Chargers had a dilemma when they drafted Rivers and then Brees ended up playing extremely well. At this point Siemien and Lynch are on the same level in terms of uncertainty. We have no idea if Lynch is the future or not because he hasnt actually showed anything yet to make that determination. At the end of the day if both Siemien and Lynch play well its a good problem to have. The bonus would be if Sanchez does well.

To me, right now they are the same. I mean has there been anything that has really separated them? Not based on that ONE preseason game. That being said, Lynch is the first round pick. They traded up to get him. Therefore, he will get the benefit of the doubt if they are close as far as production. That also means unless Siemian really lights it up he probably won't get the benefit of the doubt over sanchez for the same reason. Now, I am not at the training camp and it sure seems Kubiak is leaning towards Siemian. Now, is that to light a fire under Sanchez and Lynch? Maybe.

[EastCoastBronco]

If we can win another championship with Dirty Sanchez at the helm it will remove any doubt that our current defence is the GOAT.
Dirty Sanchez...heh...heh..heh.

[Northman]

To me, right now they are the same. I mean has there been anything that has really separated them? Not based on that ONE preseason game. That being said, Lynch is the first round pick. They traded up to get him. Therefore, he will get the benefit of the doubt if they are close as far as production. That also means unless Siemian really lights it up he probably won't get the benefit of the doubt over sanchez for the same reason. Now, I am not at the training camp and it sure seems Kubiak is leaning towards Siemian. Now, is that to light a fire under Sanchez and Lynch? Maybe.

Lynch being a first round pick means jack at the end of the day. Do you realize how many 1st round draft picks actually work out compared to flaming out? Not many. The worse thing that Denver could do right now is force Lynch to play if they feel he is the guy of the future. If Lynch isnt playing any better than Siemien or Sanchez i guarantee you that Lynch will be an afterthought compared to those two. Denver will not rush Lynch out there just because no one else is "lighting" it up. The reality is there is no rush to put Lynch out there especially when none of them are heads and shoulders above the other.

[Broncoknight30]

Lynch being a first round pick means jack at the end of the day. Do you realize how many 1st round draft picks actually work out compared to flaming out? Not many. The worse thing that Denver could do right now is force Lynch to play if they feel he is the guy of the future. If Lynch isnt playing any better than Siemien or Sanchez i guarantee you that Lynch will be an afterthought compared to those two. Denver will not rush Lynch out there just because no one else is "lighting" it up. The reality is there is no rush to put Lynch out there especially when none of them are heads and shoulders above the other.

Yes I am aware of the busts. You have a point about rushing Lynch, which I don't think is wise, unless of course they are confident he can handle it.

However, my point is if they all look like they are on the same level, I would first rather Sanchez, and then Lynch. The only way imo Siemian should be considered is if he clearly separates himself from the other two.

Yes, it seems ridiculous. Again, just to reiterate. I tend to agree that there would be a risk in pushing Lynch. I do think there would be a lot less pressure on him due to this defense, but I am willing to see him sit for a year.

[TXBRONC]

Yes I am aware of the busts. You have a point about rushing Lynch, which I don't think is wise, unless of course they are confident he can handle it.

However, my point is if they all look like they are on the same level, I would first rather Sanchez, and then Lynch. The only way imo Siemian should be considered is if he clearly separates himself from the other two.

Yes, it seems ridiculous. Again, just to reiterate. I tend to agree that there would be a risk in pushing Lynch. I do think there would be a lot less pressure on him due to this defense, but I am willing to see him sit for a year.

I wonder if Lynch any less ready than Roethlisberger or Flacco was at this same point?

[broncofaninfla]

Trevor to start Saturday night against the niners.

[Mike]

I wonder if Lynch any less ready than Roethlisberger or Flacco was at this same point?

I don't think you rush the kid. We aren't a 1-15 team. He was drafted as a talented project. I would go with Sanchez or Siemian and give him the season to learn. What would be perfect is if Siemian broke out with a strong season and we could dangle him as trade bait.

[Northman]

I wonder if Lynch any less ready than Roethlisberger or Flacco was at this same point?

Eh, not the same thing. Ben came in when Maddox got hurt and Flacco was on a team with no other viable experience at QB.

[BroncoJoe]

Am I the only one that doesn't really care who starts at QB?

[Northman]

Am I the only one that doesn't really care who starts at QB?

I dont think ultimately anyone really cares. Its just a discussion.

[BroncoJoe]

I dont think ultimately anyone really cares. Its just a discussion.

I know that, metalhead. I just think some of the comments are entertaining to read.

:yo:

[OrangeHoof]

If I'm a defensive player intent on defending my Super Bowl championship, which one would *I* want starting for the Broncos? They see all three of these guys in camp every day and they probably have the most unbiased opinions out there. They just want the guy who will help them win.

Get Von, Ware, Sly, Harris, Roby, Ward, etc. in a room and ask them which QB they'd like least to line up against. Which one has the best skills? Which one makes the best audibles? Their answer is likely to be the right one.

[EastCoastBronco]

Am I the only one that doesn't really care who starts at QB?

Nope.
Queue the half trained squirrel.

9327

[TXBRONC]

I don't think you rush the kid. We aren't a 1-15 team. He was drafted as a talented project. I would go with Sanchez or Siemian and give him the season to learn. What would be perfect is if Siemian broke out with a strong season and we could dangle him as trade bait.

It's just a question Mike. That said, the Steelers and Ravens were not 1-15 teams either.

[EastCoastBronco]

I hope Dirty Sanchez gets the nod and has the season of his career.
It would be a lovely story arc.

[TXBRONC]

Nope.
Queue the half trained squirrel.

9327

The half-trained squirrel looks like runningback not a quarterback.

[NightTerror218]

Siemien will get the nod. This is his chance.

[EastCoastBronco]

The half-trained squirrel looks like runningback not a quarterback.

After he won the Heisman he couldn't resist striking the pose.
He's that good.

[BroncoJoe]

The half-trained squirrel looks like runningback not a quarterback.

It's TEBOW-Squirrel!

[Northman]

I know that, metalhead. I just think some of the comments are entertaining to read.

:yo:

For a minute i read that as "meathead". lol

[Northman]

The half-trained squirrel looks like runningback not a quarterback.

Its Teanut Time!

[EastCoastBronco]

It's TEBOW-Squirrel!

Here we go...;-)

9328

[Broncoknight30]

I am starting to get on that Lynch bandwagon.

Yes, I still think if it is not Lynch, then it should be Sanchez. It is beyond obvious to me that Sanchez is just not going to get a fair shake. Broncos fans by and large will display ZERO patience with him. The simple fact is he is who he is. We know who it is. He is an average QB that makes about as many mistakes as plays. Even though he has the experience, he is not going to just shock anyone by playing way over his head.

Normally I am all about letting the rookie develop. There are outliers like a Roethlisberger etc. Let us not forget that at least in Roth's case he was slated as 3rd string in 2004 behind Maddox and Batch. Batch was injured in the preseason and Maddox struggled in his first few games. Hence Roth starting. Let us consider something about that Steelers team. They had the number 1 defense that year and don't think that was lost on Cowher.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/position/defense/year/2004

That was a big advantage in his case imo. That had to make the decision to go to an unproven rookie a littler easier.

This defense when healthy is the best in the NFL. If not the best top 3 at the very least. I think Lynch has the skills to operate the offense that Kubes wants to run. I also think there is not that much pressure on Lynch considering they have that defense which means he will not need to guide the offense to 30 points per game.

Anyway, I am not QUITE there, but I sure am close.

[Mike]

I am starting to get on that Lynch bandwagon.

Yes, I still think if it is not Lynch, then it should be Sanchez. It is beyond obvious to me that Sanchez is just not going to get a fair shake. Broncos fans by and large will display ZERO patience with him. The simple fact is he is who he is. We know who it is. He is an average QB that makes about as many mistakes as plays. Even though he has the experience, he is not going to just shock anyone by playing way over his head.

Fans would have been on board...the opportunity to take the job and seal it was there Saturday night and he blew it. He has had a fair shake. How much more time does he need than 6 seasons to show what he can do? He just isn't good enough to be a starter.

[GEM]

I think the fans would be a whole lot more forgiving of mistakes made by Lynch because he is a rookie, Sanchez will be eaten alive because of mistakes because he continues to make them 6 years in. The way Lynch looks with the 3's, looks much better than Sanchez with the 1's or 2's. Yes, Lynch will then have top defenses coming at him, but he has the escapability factor that neither Sanchez or Siemien have. I would have said Siemien, but the way he folded after the interception has me nervous. QB's are going to make mistakes, but they have to take that on the chin and move on. Siemien didn't do that. He was never the same after the int. I'd just like to see what Lynch has in the tank with the 1's. Put him in the first qtr of game 3, if he fails miserably, then we know. But to not even get that chance to see, I think would be a mistake.

[TXBRONC]

I think the fans would be a whole lot more forgiving of mistakes made by Lynch because he is a rookie, Sanchez will be eaten alive because of mistakes because he continues to make them 6 years in. The way Lynch looks with the 3's, looks much better than Sanchez with the 1's or 2's. Yes, Lynch will then have top defenses coming at him, but he has the escapability factor that neither Sanchez or Siemien have. I would have said Siemien, but the way he folded after the interception has me nervous. QB's are going to make mistakes, but they have to take that on the chin and move on. Siemien didn't do that. He was never the same after the int. I'd just like to see what Lynch has in the tank with the 1's. Put him in the first qtr of game 3, if he fails miserably, then we know. But to not even get that chance to see, I think would be a mistake.

When I was listening to Sirius XM this morning Ross Tucker commented that Kubiak Lynch isn't out of the running to be the starting quarterback. I don't know when Kubiak suppossedly said it but, the indications was the decision would be made some time after the game on Saturday.

[Mike]

I think the fans would be a whole lot more forgiving of mistakes made by Lynch because he is a rookie, Sanchez will be eaten alive because of mistakes because he continues to make them 6 years in. The way Lynch looks with the 3's, looks much better than Sanchez with the 1's or 2's. Yes, Lynch will then have top defenses coming at him, but he has the escapability factor that neither Sanchez or Siemien have. I would have said Siemien, but the way he folded after the interception has me nervous. QB's are going to make mistakes, but they have to take that on the chin and move on. Siemien didn't do that. He was never the same after the int. I'd just like to see what Lynch has in the tank with the 1's. Put him in the first qtr of game 3, if he fails miserably, then we know. But to not even get that chance to see, I think would be a mistake.

The only thing that gives me pause on Lynch starting is the opening game against Carolina. They are coming in with something to prove and are a physical team. A physical beat down with mental mistakes can't help his progress as a QB....and I expect a beat down.

I didn't like the way that Siemian responded to the INT, but they only gave him one series after that. I would have liked to have seen him more. I am not turned off by 1 bad decision by a first time starter second year player. I would like to see less safe plays from him. You have to be able to stretch the field and he didn't really try that this game.

I would go into Saturday nights game with Siemian 1/Lynch 2 and give them both real game plans. If Siemian can't step up then I would start giving 1 reps to Lynch...but that Carolina game still makes me nervous. I'd probably let one of the other two play in that one.

[TXBRONC]

Fans would have been on board...the opportunity to take the job and seal it was there Saturday night and he blew it. He has had a fair shake. How much more time does he need than 6 seasons to show what he can do? He just isn't good enough to be a starter.

If he had just made good on turnover that got the ball back after his first fumble that aloned would have helped his case.

[broncofaninfla]

Just my two cents but I thought Siemian looked pretty good Saturday other that the bad read pick six. Even when he came back after the interception he threw one ball high and out to be safe and had Lattimore drop his last attempt. If it wasn't for the one bad read Siemian would have been the clear choice to start. The way I see it he should start and gain more reps until Lynch is ready to take the helm. Siemian and Lynch have far more upside than Sanchez so we may as well give them the reps and track their development. Sanchez has the experience but I see the same old mistakes that have plagued him most of his career.

[NightTerror218]

Third game is dress rehearsal basically so a lot of good reps for whoever will start the season. I would like our started named so that we can get the QB and WR connection established better, work on timing. Since all QBs are essentially new to the WR.

However if its game 3 or 4 i want to see lynch get some first team reps. Give him the best OL that can give him some time and see what he can do with our amazing starting WR.

[Poet]

Start Lynch.

So uhmm, would the hashtag of #lynchmob be inappropriate?

[TXBRONC]

Third game is dress rehearsal basically so a lot of good reps for whoever will start the season. I would like our started named so that we can get the QB and WR connection established better, work on timing. Since all QBs are essentially new to the WR.

However if its game 3 or 4 i want to see lynch get some first team reps. Give him the best OL that can give him some time and see what he can do with our amazing starting WR.

I'm pretty sure I heard the Kubiak won't decide who the starter is for the opener until after the third game.

[NightTerror218]

I'm pretty sure I heard the Kubiak won't decide who the starter is for the opener after the third game.

Typically they are named before game 3. This is different but with siemien starting i put my money he is getting nod to start week 1. Poor guy, carolina will eat him alive if he cant pass down field. Luke keuchly will be a .

[nevcraw]

Typically they are named before game 3. This is different but with siemien starting i put my money he is getting nod to start week 1. Poor guy, carolina will eat him alive if he cant pass down field. Luke keuchly will be a .
He just needs to keep the chains moving and not screw up.. He doesn't need to throw bombs... Just not picks. We will win a lot of games if we can get someone not to emulate Griese, bad Plummer, and Orton. Not to mention Sanchez.

[Simple Jaded]

When I was listening to Sirius XM this morning Ross Tucker commented that Kubiak Lynch isn't out of the running to be the starting quarterback. I don't when Kubiak suppossedly said but, the indications was that it was made some time after the game on Saturday.

Kubiak didn't rule it out, TX, he said Lynch has always been in the competition to start but he did go out of his way to mention that he's behind the other two in terms of knowledge.

[Joel]

The only thing that gives me pause on Lynch starting is the opening game against Carolina. They are coming in with something to prove and are a physical team. A physical beat down with mental mistakes can't help his progress as a QB....and I expect a beat down.
That (and our line) is the problem: It's not just Carolina. Two weeks after opening against them we're on the road against Burfict and Co. JJ Watt's lurking down the road, too. Khalil Mack home/away, and he's got Bruce Irvin alongside now. Justin Houston and Tamba Hali home/away, too. Also a Bolts D who's only solution to our offense was "sweep the QBs leg" so even Mr. Quick Reads and Release finished the game hobbling as often as not; Indy has the same philosophy from similar necessity, and we face them between the opener and Cincy.

There are also tons of DBs out there eager to make/embellish their own names at the expense of a rookie 1st round gunslinger. That could inflict psychological scars as lasting as any physical ones. Rookie franchise QBs need to learn how to do their job in the pros, but need to NOT learn how to NOT do it at least as badly. People can point to Manning and Big Ben, but those rookies had solid lines and HoF run support.

They also didn't win SBs as rookies. A sophomore SB was good enough for Marino and Rapistburger; it's good enough for Lynch, especially since we can give him a lot more help next year. An all-time great D won't collapse in a single season.

[NightTerror218]

He just needs to keep the chains moving and not screw up.. He doesn't need to throw bombs... Just not picks. We will win a lot of games if we can get someone not to emulate Griese, bad Plummer, and Orton. Not to mention Sanchez.

Dont need to throw bombs but needs to steetch field and keep safties from overloading box. And you know that is how teams will test a young QB put safties in box, man covwrage and focus on the running game and stopping the short passing game.

[Northman]

I am starting to get on that Lynch bandwagon.

Yes, I still think if it is not Lynch, then it should be Sanchez. It is beyond obvious to me that Sanchez is just not going to get a fair shake. Broncos fans by and large will display ZERO patience with him. The simple fact is he is who he is. We know who it is. He is an average QB that makes about as many mistakes as plays. Even though he has the experience, he is not going to just shock anyone by playing way over his head.

Normally I am all about letting the rookie develop. There are outliers like a Roethlisberger etc. Let us not forget that at least in Roth's case he was slated as 3rd string in 2004 behind Maddox and Batch. Batch was injured in the preseason and Maddox struggled in his first few games. Hence Roth starting. Let us consider something about that Steelers team. They had the number 1 defense that year and don't think that was lost on Cowher.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/position/defense/year/2004

That was a big advantage in his case imo. That had to make the decision to go to an unproven rookie a littler easier.

This defense when healthy is the best in the NFL. If not the best top 3 at the very least. I think Lynch has the skills to operate the offense that Kubes wants to run. I also think there is not that much pressure on Lynch considering they have that defense which means he will not need to guide the offense to 30 points per game.

Anyway, I am not QUITE there, but I sure am close.

Thats really the difference. Brock had a luxury of sitting behind a future HOF'r but Lynch doesnt have that luxury and would learn nothing from the other two. While you would love to have your future QB sit and learn for a year or so Denver is in a awkward situation where the two guys in front of him may not be any better at this stage.

[Northman]

I think the fans would be a whole lot more forgiving of mistakes made by Lynch because he is a rookie, Sanchez will be eaten alive because of mistakes because he continues to make them 6 years in.

Absolutely.

Its why i wasnt overly harsh on Brock last year when he struggled at times (even though he sat for 3 years). He still didnt have a lot of playing time on the field and there has to be a process of growth on there to. Even the alltime greats struggled early in their careers until they adjusted. But Sanchez has been around the ass....err block so the leniency isnt the same for him. As for Siemien, he is basically just another rookie so i think fans would be willing to allow him some growing pains as well. But as another person stated in another thread if you are going to run with basically two rookies than use the guy you plan on being the longterm future for the team.

[Northman]

The only thing that gives me pause on Lynch starting is the opening game against Carolina. They are coming in with something to prove and are a physical team. A physical beat down with mental mistakes can't help his progress as a QB....and I expect a beat down.




Eh, not sure if we will get beat down. If we do that could be bad for the entire year as that game to me will set the tone for the rest of the season. Even if we lose i expect a hard fought game but i also would expect the Broncos to open the season at home wanting to show last year was not a fluke. If this game was in Carolina i might be more worried but at home i expect the team to be ready.

[Northman]

He just needs to keep the chains moving and not screw up.. He doesn't need to throw bombs... Just not picks. We will win a lot of games if we can get someone not to emulate Griese, bad Plummer, and Orton. Not to mention Sanchez.

Not sure if i agree or disagree on this. Because of the inexperience and youth i would agree that he needs to be cautious with the ball but at the same time there is just WAY too much talent on the offensive side of the ball to be only scoring 14-17 pts a game. With Manning's struggles i understood why we were dinking and dunking but with a younger player with a better arm i would like to see them go down the field a little more and try to make plays. Last year Oz was able to get some pretty good 20-30 passes mixed in but there were also a lot of drops on those. Last year the defense did a hell of a job with such an inept offense so i dont think they can withstand that same kind of pressure this year without losing some games. Offense needs to start making plays and scoring more this year.

[Poet]

Sanchez is not a good player and will make mistakes like he is a rookie or young QB. He might make fewer of those mistakes overall, but it's still going to be bad.

Trevor S. is a game manager but he will also make mistakes because he IS a young QB, albeit he might make the fewest mistakes of the three.

Lynch will probably make the most mistakes of the three. With that being said, he will probably be the one to make the most plays as well. He is also a perfect fit for the offense, and decent play calling should be able to put him on a leash.

Starting Lynch gives him an accelerated progression track; however if one can progress they can also regress, and there is a risk of him just imploding because he is a raw QB.

The fan in me wants Lynch to start because it gives me something to hone in offensively. Part of me thinks he can do it now and believes in the guy. The other part of me thinks that he can do it, but he can't do it right now while also think it is possible for him to arrive at the ready point toward the middle to the end of the season.

What I do know is that Sanchez does nothing for the team. He's not an actual game manager. He certainly is not a big time QB, either. He's a second stringer, and not necessarily that great of one either. If we put Trevor S. in the game we are saying that we can either win now with a game manager (certainly possible) or we don't think Lynch can go right now/OMFG HE WILL DIEBEHINDTHELINEPLEASEDONTKILLOURFUTUREQB.

This is why I was hoping Lynch would get the start in week three. So I'm torn.

[NightTerror218]

I want Lynch to be brought along. I would rather see him start after a few games at the earliest. We know the defense will keep us in the game. I just do not want to force him to play game 1 if he has not won the job right out.

[broncofaninfla]

Klis is reporting that Siemian isn't throwing today, shoulder injury from the missed tackle Saturday.

[NightTerror218]

Klis is reporting that Siemian isn't throwing today, shoulder injury from the missed tackle Saturday.

Still running first team with hand offs

[LawDog]

Still running first team with hand offs

Do we have actual confirmation of this?

EDIT: Klis did tweet that Trevor was with the 1's during the running portion of practice.

[LawDog]

At today's post-practice presser, Kubiak may a comment about Paxton having a lot on his plate this week with what our offense is doing and the Rams offense as well. Then kind of joked that he shouldn't have said that because the guys would know he said it. I took it as Paxton will be running scout team offense in preparation for Saturday. If that's what Kubes meant, then Siemian will be backed up by Sanchez and those who were hoping to see Paxton with the 1's will be disappointed...

[NightTerror218]

At today's post-practice presser, Kubiak may a comment about Paxton having a lot on his plate this week with what our offense is doing and the Rams offense as well. Then kind of joked that he shouldn't have said that because the guys would know he said it. I took it as Paxton will be running scout team offense in preparation for Saturday. If that's what Kubes meant, then Siemian will be backed up by Sanchez and those who were hoping to see Paxton with the 1's will be disappointed...

Saw a write up on today offense that lynch and sanchez both switched off running count team today.

[Joel]

I want Lynch to be brought along. I would rather see him start after a few games at the earliest. We know the defense will keep us in the game. I just do not want to force him to play game 1 if he has not won the job right out.
I'd rather see him start after 2016: We'll be far more able to protect him and provide a consistent run threat to keep blitzers and DBs honest. He'll know the playbook, Kubiaks expectations, his top receivers NAMES; y'know: The "little" things. The D will be just as capable of keeping us in games then, but if the offense is capable of WINNING them... I don't want a longshot repeat nearly as badly as the DYNASTY we could have if we just manage to keep it in our pants for ONE whole year.

[TXBRONC]

I'd rather see him start after 2016: We'll be far more able to protect him and provide a consistent run threat to keep blitzers and DBs honest. He'll know the playbook, Kubiaks expectations, his top receivers NAMES; y'know: The "little" things. The D will be just as capable of keeping us in games then, but if the offense is capable of WINNING them... I don't want a longshot repeat nearly as badly as the DYNASTY we could have if we just manage to keep it in our pants for ONE whole year.

You don't know what the situation be like next year for either side of the ball. Maybe you would not know little things your teammates names after four months but I'll go out on a limb and say he does. You're inconsistent on the one hand if Lynch sits the line will be better and Denver has chance at a dynasty next season but if Lynch starts this season Denver won't.

[NightTerror218]

You don't know what the situation be like next year for either side of the ball. Maybe you would not know little things your teammates names after four months but I'll go out on a limb and say he does. You're inconsistent on the one hand if Lynch sits the line will be better and Denver has chance at a dynasty next season but if starts this season Denver won't. The

Exactly and the best experience is live game action.

[TXBRONC]

Exactly and the best experience is live game action.

Some people have commented at times how Elway has said that when he was rookie that was the best thing for him. Qutie honestly, I don't remember Elway saying that, but I remember him saying that while starting as a rookie was tough he learned more by playing than by sitting on the bench.

[NightTerror218]

Some people have said have commented at times how Elway has said that when he was rookie that was the best thing for him. Qutie honestly, I don't remember Elway saying that, but I remember him saying that while starting as a rookie was tough he learned more by playing than by sitting on the bench.

I have read interviews with him and he was quoted saying that some rookies fail due to losing confidence and being thrown into a fire to early can rock that confidence. He thinks a QB should sit a bit not matter when drafted. But the best experience you can get is from lice action and he would have not traded his early starts for anything. But he said expectations are different now then when he was drafted. 1st round QBs are expected to start immediately.

I have a history of the denver broncos book. At that is a cliff note version of the interview with him that was done with him for the book based on elways early years. Next chapter is the super bowl years.

[gregbroncs]

Cause Siemian is the not "the future." I would rather have Lynch in there if they are all pretty much the same. Why? Cause Lynch is the future. The only way imo Siemian should be put in there is if he is just so good that there is no choice. I have seen him do pretty well. I also like him, but he is not slated as the future. Lynch is. Which may make the transition from Siemian to Lynch a little more difficult than it would be from Sanchez to Lynch.

The reason is Sanchez understands he is a stop gap QB. Siemian is competing for something more substantial.How do you know he's not the future? He could be. There is a legitimate chance he ends up being better than Lynch.

[BroncoWave]

How do you know he's not the future? He could be. There is a legitimate chance he ends up being better than Lynch.

There is an incredibly small chance of Siemian being better than Lynch. Just the sheer math on how 7th round QBs turn out and how first rounders turn out stack the odds heavily in Lynch's favor. That's not to say it can't happen, but I would say it's far less than a "legitimate" chance.

Lynch clearly is leaps and bounds ahead of Siemian when it comes to their physical gifts, and that's something that will never change. Lynch would just have to be a complete bust on the mental end or sustain a serious injury not to wind up being a better player.

[Poet]

To paraphrase BW: while we can't know absolutes, we can, however, gauge likelihoods.

[BroncoWave]

To paraphrase BW: while we can't know absolutes, we can, however, gauge likelihoods.

To paraphrase even more, Siemian has a legit chance of being better than Lynch as much as you have a legit chance of salad becoming your favorite food. :D

[Poet]

To paraphrase even more, Siemian has a legit chance of being better than Lynch as much as you have a legit chance of salad becoming your favorite food. :D

/thread

[Joel]

You don't know what the situation be like next year for either side of the ball. Maybe you would not know little things your teammates names after four months but I'll go out on a limb and say he does. You're inconsistent on the one hand if Lynch sits the line will be better and Denver has chance at a dynasty next season but if Lynch starts this season Denver won't.
That's not inconsistent: It's acknowledging that next years line can't help (i.e. protect) Lynch now.


Exactly and the best experience is live game action.
Tell that to David Carr, RG III and even Andrew Luck. Or conversely, Steve Young and Aaron Rodgers. Youngs "live game action" was such high quality in Tampa that the Bucs quickly traded him for peanuts and drafted Heisman-winning Testaverde #1 overall--then just as quickly put up billboards with him in front of a blue background captioned "Vinny thinks this is orange!"

I realize everyone's a huge fan of our rookie 1st round franchise QB, because that's just how that goes: But immediately feeding him into a meatgrinder would only HURT his career and the team, not help either. Once more, with feeling: This isn't fantasy football, nor Madden. All Lynch experiences his first few year—good AND bad—will have lasting (if varying) effects. We don't get to just re-load a save if an unblocked blitzer gives us the "Broken Leg (Career Ending)" message Opening Day.

[Northman]

Tampa was incredibly bad as an organization when Young was there, when he went to SF he immediately was able to improve when he was surrounded by a better organization. It generally takes a QB 3 years to fully his his stride anyway and not every great QB comes out a shining star from day 1. Mannings first year in Indy he went 3-13 with 26 TD's vs 28 Ints. It didnt break him being thrown to the wolves. Elway was 4-6 in his first year starts with 7 Td's and 14 Ints. It didnt break him. Does this mean that Lynch will succeed even if he struggles this year? No. But it doesnt mean he will automatically fail either. There are growing pains with QB's and even though a guy like Andrew Luck has had winning seasons his first 3 years in the league he still has some growing pains but more than likely he will just fine in the long run. The only real difference right now for Denver is that Lynch was a lower 1st round pick and not a higher one so while sitting my be beneficial there may not be any real choice since their options are limited.

[Joel]

Tampa was incredibly bad as an organization when Young was there, when he went to SF he immediately was able to improve when he was surrounded by a better organization. It generally takes a QB 3 years to fully his his stride anyway and not every great QB comes out a shining star from day 1. Mannings first year in Indy he went 3-13 with 26 TD's vs 28 Ints. It didnt break him being thrown to the wolves. Elway was 4-6 in his first year starts with 7 Td's and 14 Ints. It didnt break him. Does this mean that Lynch will succeed even if he struggles this year? No. But it doesnt mean he will automatically fail either. There are growing pains with QB's and even though a guy like Andrew Luck has had winning seasons his first 3 years in the league he still has some growing pains but more than likely he will just fine in the long run.
People keep dismissing the countless talented QBs doomed by awful teams demanding an immediate savior as if the reigning champs are immune to that. Here's the thing though (and this is the thing:) We won the championship DESPITE an offense that was AWFUL even WITH a PAIR of star WRs, a potential star RB and THE GREATEST POCKET PASSER WHO EVER LIVED.

"Any D so great it can carry Peyton Manning to a championship can easily do the same with a raw rookie" is not a logical sentence.

More to the point, our offense has not shown itself significantly better than what the Bucs gave Young and Testaverde, the Texans gave Carr our countless other teams gave the top QB talents their awful offenses "earned" them the high draft picks to acquire. Why set Lynch up to fail now when we could set him up to succeed in 2017—and 2018, and 2019, and....


The only real difference right now for Denver is that Lynch was a lower 1st round pick and not a higher one so while sitting my be beneficial there may not be any real choice since their options are limited.
Why? Even if we finished DEAD LAST in 2016, it's not like we'd be relegated to the CFL: We'd get the #1 overall pick. If we bomb with Sanchez or Siemian we get REWARDED with high draft picks in 2017; that's hardly a bad thing for any team, much less one with a core roster so good it's only two years removed from a SB Championship. I could stop complaining about how even SECOND round OTs are guys nearly every team rejected TWICE when you're fresh off a deep playoff run.

Why are we STILL in "Win NOW1eleven!" mode as reigning champs, when our 1st round franchise QB should easily have a decade of quality play in him if he stays healthy, but DOESN'T have the protection to keep his body that way nor the run support to keep his mind that way?

What more do we have to prove...? :confused:

[Northman]

What more do we have to prove...? :confused:

That we can do it again??????

[TXBRONC]

I have read interviews with him and he was quoted saying that some rookies fail due to losing confidence and being thrown into a fire to early can rock that confidence. He thinks a QB should sit a bit not matter when drafted. But the best experience you can get is from lice action and he would have not traded his early starts for anything. But he said expectations are different now then when he was drafted. 1st round QBs are expected to start immediately.

I have a history of the denver broncos book. At that is a cliff note version of the interview with him that was done with him for the book based on elways early years. Next chapter is the super bowl years.

As I said, in his own words he said that he learned more by playing than by sitting. I never read in an interview or heard in an interview of Elway that quarterbacks should sit as standard procedure. His own comments about Lynch after the draft left it open that Lynch might be ready start right away.

[Mike]

Tampa was incredibly bad as an organization when Young was there, when he went to SF he immediately was able to improve when he was surrounded by a better organization. It generally takes a QB 3 years to fully his his stride anyway and not every great QB comes out a shining star from day 1. Mannings first year in Indy he went 3-13 with 26 TD's vs 28 Ints. It didnt break him being thrown to the wolves. Elway was 4-6 in his first year starts with 7 Td's and 14 Ints. It didnt break him. Does this mean that Lynch will succeed even if he struggles this year? No. But it doesnt mean he will automatically fail either. There are growing pains with QB's and even though a guy like Andrew Luck has had winning seasons his first 3 years in the league he still has some growing pains but more than likely he will just fine in the long run. The only real difference right now for Denver is that Lynch was a lower 1st round pick and not a higher one so while sitting my be beneficial there may not be any real choice since their options are limited.

Yeah, but that was when men were men. You got to be softer and gentler with these new kids. ;)

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

/thread

You just need to try one of my authentic Ceasar salads, topped with grilled salmon.

[Simple Jaded]

Salad is a genius.

[TXBRONC]

You just need to try one of my authentic Ceasar salads, topped with grilled salmon.

Do you put corn in your Ceasar salads? If you don't you should because Jaded loves corn.

[TXBRONC]

As I have said previously, I had heard on the NFL on Sirius XM that Sanchez might gone to save on the salary and the draft pick. Now Mike Klis is even throwing that out there as possibility.


Sanchez must now try to protect his No. 2 spot. If he drops to No. 3, his $4.5 million salary may come into play when it comes to making the 53-man roster. The Broncos gave up what turned out to be a seventh-round draft pick to the Eagles in exchange for Sanchez on March 11 – two days after the team lost Brock Osweiler to Houston via free agency.

http://www.9news.com/sports/nfl/denver-broncos/mike-klis/broncos-siemian-to-start-again-vs-rams-but-lynch-in-play/305125437

Jokingly, GEM mentioned that she wished we had kept Chritian Ponder last season because what he did in the last preseason game. If Sanchez is let go I could see Ponder being a real possibility. The 49ers have four quarterbacks on their roster Kaepernick, Gabbert, Driskell, and Ponder. Ponder has to be the odd man out. He was last quarterback signed and they just drafted Driskell.

[Broncoknight30]

As I have said previously, I had heard on the NFL on Sirius XM that Sanchez might gone to save on the salary and the draft pick. Now Mike Klis is even throwing that out there as possibility.



Jokingly, GEM mentioned that she wished we had kept Chritian Ponder last season because what he did in the last preseason game. If Sanchez is let go I could see Ponder being a real possibility. The 49ers have four quarterbacks on their roster Kaepernick, Gabbert, Driskell, and Ponder. Ponder has to be the odd man out. He was last quarterback signed and they just drafted Driskell.

Yeah, I always actually liked him for what Kubiak wants to do. He is very intelligent so he will grasp a playbook fast. Certainly mobile enough.

I was disappointed when he did not resign. Plus I am a Nole. :D

[TXBRONC]

Yeah, I always actually liked him for what Kubiak wants to do. He is very intelligent so he will grasp a playbook fast. Certainly mobile enough.

I was disappointed when he did resign. Plus I am a Nole. :D

I think Ponder would be a good choice if the Broncos do in fact release Sanchez.

[Northman]

I 2nd on Ponder. Not a world beater but he is most likely better than Sanchez and has enough experience to guide the Broncos if necessary.

[BroncoWave]

Let's not get carried away now. There's a reason Christian ponder has barely been on a roster the last few years. Dude is terrible. Sanchez is bad, but I don't think he's as bad as ponder. If we cut Sanchez for ponder, it's purely because of money and to get our pick back. Not because ponder is better.

[Valar Morghulis]

Let's not get carried away now. There's a reason Christian ponder has barely been on a roster the last few years. Dude is terrible. Sanchez is bad, but I don't think he's as bad as ponder. If we cut Sanchez for ponder, it's purely because of money and to get our pick back. Not because ponder is better.

And his wife

[TXBRONC]

Let's not get carried away now. There's a reason Christian ponder has barely been on a roster the last few years. Dude is terrible. Sanchez is bad, but I don't think he's as bad as ponder. If we cut Sanchez for ponder, it's purely because of money and to get our pick back. Not because ponder is better.

If it comes to pass that Denver cuts Sanchez, then Ponder becomes an option. Imo they're about the same.

[tomjonesrocks]

And his wife

Meh. I like Colin Cowherd's cohost better. Add whoever she's dating to the roster.

[Northman]

Let's not get carried away now. There's a reason Christian ponder has barely been on a roster the last few years. Dude is terrible. Sanchez is bad, but I don't think he's as bad as ponder. If we cut Sanchez for ponder, it's purely because of money and to get our pick back. Not because ponder is better.

Well yea, thats kind of what everyone is talking about.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Sanchez is a very good backup.

[Joel]

Let's not get carried away now. There's a reason Christian ponder has barely been on a roster the last few years. Dude is terrible. Sanchez is bad, but I don't think he's as bad as ponder. If we cut Sanchez for ponder, it's purely because of money and to get our pick back. Not because ponder is better.
Sanchez isn't even bad, just average. Unfortunately, his particular average is the result of play that's "consistently" either very solid or utterly dreadful; there's no in between. "There was a little girl, she had a little curl; when she was good, she was very VERY good—but when she was bad she was horrid."

I expect our 2016 depth chart to be:

#1 Late round long shot sophomore who looks good in practice and knows the playbook
#2 Veteran with extensive starting experience in both the regular season and playoffs
#3 1st round raw rookie QB of the Future.

HUGE longshot, of course, because the Sanchez Saga is old, well known and played out, while Siemians "unknown 7th rounder shocks world" and Lynchs "potential best rookie QB of the draft" tales remain fresh and fascinating. Thing is, I'm pretty sure GMs and ACTUAL owners don't evaluate player talent nor make other decisions the same way sports anchors, beat reporters and FANTASY owners do. :tongue:

[Poet]

Sanchez is a very good backup.

Good backups don't turn the ball over.

[BroncoWave]

Well yea, thats kind of what everyone is talking about.

You literally said about Ponder, "he's most likely better than Sanchez".

[BroncoWave]

If it comes to pass that Denver cuts Sanchez, then Ponder becomes an option. Imo they're about the same.

I don't know that I agree. Say what you want about Sanchez, but he has had at least a little bit of success in his career, playoff wins and all. And he's never, at least until right now, had any issue staying on a roster. Ponder can barely stay on a roster the last few seasons. And when we traded for Sanchez, Ponder was available too, and probably for much cheaper. Given that he even had experience as a Bronco, if he were about the same as Sanchez, Elway would have taken him instead IMO. Saved some cash and the draft pick. I really don't get the sudden fascination with Ponder.

[Dzone]

We dodged a bullet when Kaepernick went to Elways house but didnt become our QB. Now he says he refuses to stand for a flag that represents oppression of blacks. What a douchebag. He got p;aid $11 Million and is now trying to torpedo his career
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000691077/article/colin-kaepernick-explains-protest-of-national-anthem

[turftoad]

We dodged a bullet when Kaepernick went to Elways house but didnt become our QB. Now he says he refuses to stand for a flag that represents oppression of blacks. What a douchebag. He got p;aid $11 Million and is now trying to torpedo his career
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000691077/article/colin-kaepernick-explains-protest-of-national-anthem

Yep, if you don't like it here get the eff out!

[Dzone]

Yep, if you don't like it here get the eff out!

Maybe he thinks he could make $11 Million in some other country. He is saying **** off to the country that gave him his fortune. Kaepernick has gone rogue, this guy is the ultimate selfish pos. The 49ers should cut his sorry ass today
100 Dirty Sanchezes are better than one Krapernick

[TXBRONC]

I don't know that I agree. Say what you want about Sanchez, but he has had at least a little bit of success in his career, playoff wins and all. And he's never, at least until right now, had any issue staying on a roster. Ponder can barely stay on a roster the last few seasons. And when we traded for Sanchez, Ponder was available too, and probably for much cheaper. Given that he even had experience as a Bronco, if he were about the same as Sanchez, Elway would have taken him instead IMO. Saved some cash and the draft pick. I really don't get the sudden fascination with Ponder.

Nothing new about us disagreeing. :D

It's can't be argued that early in Sanchez's career he's had success. Calling it a fascinaiton isn't accurate or fair. The point I'm making is that if Denver lets Sanchez go Ponder comes to mind because I think the 49ers will be releasing him soon. My guess is Denver choose Sanchez over Ponder because at some point in his career that he had some level of success.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

You literally said about Ponder, "he's most likely better than Sanchez".

Couldn't you just let me have my day in the hot glory sun?

[Poet]

Is Ponder a turnover machine as well? Because it feels like we're trying to see which turd can be polished more. IDK, maybe the Niners will cut Kaep and he can be our backup.

[TXBRONC]

Is Ponder a turnover machine as well? Because it feels like we're trying to see which turd can be polished more. IDK, maybe the Niners will cut Kaep and he can be our backup.

From what I saw Ponder hasn't been the turnover machine. I doubt the 49ers are going let Kaepernick not after what they paid in spring.

[Slick]

We dodged a bullet when Kaepernick went to Elways house but didnt become our QB. Now he says he refuses to stand for a flag that represents oppression of blacks. What a douchebag. He got p;aid $11 Million and is now trying to torpedo his career
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000691077/article/colin-kaepernick-explains-protest-of-national-anthem

Meh. It's a free country. He can say what he likes.

[Simple Jaded]

Maybe he thinks he could make $11 Million in some other country. He is saying **** off to the country that gave him his fortune. Kaepernick has gone rogue, this guy is the ultimate selfish pos. The 49ers should cut his sorry ass today
100 Dirty Sanchezes are better than one Krapernick
That's not what he said, but I have a feeling that he wouldn't be making this stand if he wasn't a millionaire trying to get released by his current team. Meaning, he wouldn't be saying shit if Denver traded for him.

[atwater27]

F%&$ Colin Kaepernick. More whites are killed by cops than any other race, and the whites deserved it. And pissing on the country that allowed a minority like him to somehow obtain 120 million dollars for playing a sport and sucking at it is just beyond the pale.

[Simple Jaded]

F%&$ Colin Kaepernick. More whites are killed by cops than any other race, and the whites deserved it. And pissing on the country that allowed a minority like him to somehow obtain 120 million dollars for playing a sport and sucking at it is just beyond the pale.

I agree, **** him, but I have a solution...how bout not killing "subhumans" for no ******* reason? That's just crazy enough to work.

[Poet]

I predict that this thread is going to end well.

[Simple Jaded]

And to think Kaepernick is half white. Judas. Or...half Judas.

[Poet]

And to think Kaepernick is half white. Judas. Or...half Judas.

We should ask a specific poster if this only makes him sub-subhuman.

[Simple Jaded]

We should ask a specific poster if this only makes him sub-subhuman.

Unless that's a double-negative, which is twice as bad.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

We should ask a specific poster if this only makes him sub-subhuman.

The factually scientific term is quasi-human.

[Poet]

Unless that's a double-negative, which is twice as bad.

Are you a wizard.

Al, go away. Jaded and I are bonding.

[Simple Jaded]

Are you a wizard.

Al, go away. Jaded and I are bonding.

I'm a wizard, but you have to call me Knighthawk.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Are you a wizard.

Al, go away. Jaded and I are bonding.
Don't bond with Jaded. He'll find out where you live and burn the town to the ground. He has ice in his veins.

[Poet]

Don't bond with Jaded. He'll find out where you live and burn the town to the ground. He has ice in his veins.

If Jaded wants to **** around and get Von Kingered then he doesn't love to live.

You wanna get Von Kingered, Jaded?

[TXBRONC]

If Jaded wants to **** around and get Von Kingered then he doesn't love to live.

You wanna get Von Kingered, Jaded?

I'm not sure he's frightened.

[Poet]

I'm not sure he frightened.

May he rest in peace.

[TXBRONC]

May he rest in peace.

I don't know King.

[Poet]

I don't know King.

But you do know Von Kinger.

[TXBRONC]

But you do know Von Kinger.

That's exactly why I think you're in over your head with Jaded.

[Poet]

That's exactly why I think you're in over your head with Jaded.

I'm ready to die.

[TXBRONC]

I'm ready to die.

There is no need for that.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Let's hope and pray cooler heads prevail.

[Simple Jaded]

So be it, I feel like Wyatt going to face Johnny Ringo.

Choose your weapon.

[Joel]

If Jaded wants to **** around and get Von Kingered then he doesn't love to live.

You wanna get Von Kingered, Jaded?
I don't know wtf that is (and fear asking) but if he says yes you two need to take it to a cheap motel.

[Simple Jaded]

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[Joel]

Not that there's anything wrong with that.
Not in principle, but it's not a spectator sport (that's a whole 'nother kind of website.)

[Simple Jaded]

Not in principle, but it's not a spectator sport (that's a whole 'nother kind of website.)

Maybe we'll have cheerleaders and $10 beers, have you considered that?

[Joel]

Maybe we'll have cheerleaders and $10 beers, have you considered that?
Then I'll be watching the cheerleaders instead (but if my wife asks, I was at church. ;))