Why the Broncos locking up Von Miller long-term is about more than money

[Denver Native (Carol)]

ENGLEWOOD, Colo. -- There is plenty to gain for both the Denver Broncos and Von Miller if the team opens its checkbook wide enough to entice Miller to sign a long-term deal.

The Broncos would get their Super Bowl MVP -- a premier, dynamic edge-rusher who is a cornerstone player in the team’s defense, the guy John Elway made the team’s first draft pick after he took his current job in 2011. Miller would get a substantial pile of life-changing cash as one of the league’s highest-paid players, or perhaps even the title of league's highest-paid defensive player, with the long-term security the contract would bring to go with the message that he is important to where the Broncos are going and what the team just did.

As the Broncos and Miller face a deadline that is essentially two weeks away -- July 15 -- money is, and always will be, the overriding issue. But there is a lot more along for the ride as well.

rest - http://espn.go.com/blog/denver-broncos/post/_/id/20868/sure-a-von-miller-deal-is-about-the-money-but-theres-plenty-more-in-play-on-both-sides

[Joel]

Von Miller is the face of the post-Manning Broncos (yes, I know, Elway; he's not on the field anymore.) He's an All Pro, reigning SB MVP and a likely HoFer in the prime of his career. Losing him would be like the '86 Giants blowing off LT because he "got greedy" (EXACTLY like: Taylor was drafted in '81, Miller in '11.) The reality is Von was our "franchise player" even before tagged; hopefully he remains so. Malik Jackson's replaceable (and Von's the biggest reason) but Von Miller isn't.

[LTC Pain]

So is Miller technically a "hold-out" yet?

[TXBRONC]

Hopefully Elway can get this done soon. I suspect Elway is going to have to give more ground.

[spikerman]

I can't figure out if the absolute silence from both sides is a good thing or a bad thing.

[MOtorboat]

So is Miller technically a "hold-out" yet?

No.

[Poet]

Make Von Miller a Bronco Again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Simple Jaded]

I don't want the GM to be the Face of the Franchise, I don't care who it is.

[FanInAZ]

So is Miller technically a "hold-out" yet?

"Hold out" refers to someone who, while under contract, refuses to attend mandatory meetings/practices until they get a new contract because they aren't happy with their current one. I'm not aware of him refusing to attend any such meetings/practices. Until he does, he's not a holdout.

[FanInAZ]

I don't want the GM to be the Face of the Franchise, I don't care who it is.

Like when Al Davis was Owner/GM/"face of the Raiders" :D

[spikerman]

"Hold out" refers to someone who, while under contract, refuses to attend mandatory meetings/practices until they get a new contract because they aren't happy with their current one. I'm not aware of him refusing to attend any such meetings/practices. Until he does, he's not a holdout.

I believe he missed a mandatory camp, but he's not a holdout because he's not under contract and is "technically" a free agent.

[TXBRONC]

I believe he missed a mandatory camp, but he's not a holdout because he's not under contract and is "technically" a free agent.

But he has the franchise tag on him so he's not really a free agent.

[Dean]

Von hasn't signed the franchise offer. So he is not under contract.

[Ravage!!!]

But he has the franchise tag on him so he's not really a free agent.

Not a free agent, just not under contract. I know what you are saying, but, since we are talking about technicalities..... I thought it should be brought up.

[TXBRONC]

Not a free agent, just not under contract. I know what you are saying, but, since we are talking about technicalities..... I thought it should be brought up.

We're pretty much saying the same thing.

[DenBronx]

Make Von Miller a Bronco Again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


First they need to BUILD his bank account.

[Simple Jaded]

Like when Al Davis was Owner/GM/"face of the Raiders" :D

He was also the face of Tales From the Cript.

[Krugan]

I keep seeing articles that say the broncos up'ed the offer, but seems the hometown discount, and wanting to be a bronco for life thing is just words.

I get it, make hay when the sun is shining and all that, but damn, sign or say your not at this point.

[Tned]

I keep seeing articles that say the broncos up'ed the offer, but seems the hometown discount, and wanting to be a bronco for life thing is just words.

I get it, make hay when the sun is shining and all that, but damn, sign or say your not at this point.

Based on some articles, his goal is now to set a new high mark to help other players that come after him get large contracts.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Based on some articles, his goal is now to set a new high mark to help other players that come after him get large contracts.

Which pisses me off. That demonstrates no loyalty to the franchise who took him #2 overall.

[Tned]

Which pisses me off. That demonstrates no loyalty to the franchise who took him #2 overall.

In an article on SI yesterday, he makes it sounds like one of the reasons that he will refuse to sign the franchise tender is that it's a league wide problem and he feels a responsibility to help fix it. I assume he's referring to the franchise tag in general, which if that's the case, it's asinine, as it was collectively bargained just a few years ago.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

In an article on SI yesterday, he makes it sounds like one of the reasons that he will refuse to sign the franchise tender is that it's a league wide problem and he feels a responsibility to help fix it. I assume he's referring to the franchise tag in general, which if that's the case, it's asinine, as it was collectively bargained just a few years ago.

It's a self-righteous excuse to be greedy. He can pack sand now for all I care.

[BroncoJoe]

Love Von, but his words earlier ring very hollow now. It is all about the money.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Love Von, but his words earlier ring very hollow now. It is all about the money.

He's just looking out for his fellow man Joe.

[Ravage!!!]

Which pisses me off. That demonstrates no loyalty to the franchise who took him #2 overall.

With all-do respect Al, there is no loyalty in the NFL. Well, rarely. I mean, that same team that was "so generous" in picking him #2 overall didn't do it for Von's benefit, but picked him for their own. If that same #2 overall pick had lost more time due to injury, or didn't play well, they wouldn't have shown loyalty to him.

Fans really have to get this "loyalty" thing out of their system, because we are the FIRST to boo a player that is playing well on the field, and then claim they are "over paid" (hate that term). Yet we want them to take less money to 'help us out.'

[LTC Pain]

It's a self-righteous excuse to be greedy. He can pack sand now for all I care.

Next man up???

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

With all-do respect Al, there is no loyalty in the NFL. Well, rarely. I mean, that same team that was "so generous" in picking him #2 overall didn't do it for Von's benefit, but picked him for their own. If that same #2 overall pick had lost more time due to injury, or didn't play well, they wouldn't have shown loyalty to him.

Fans really have to get this "loyalty" thing out of their system, because we are the FIRST to boo a player that is playing well on the field, and then claim they are "over paid" (hate that term). Yet we want them to take less money to 'help us out.'

I'm not usually one to jump on the "loyalty" train, and I have never boo'd a player that I can recall. I just don't buy the self-righteous line of crap he's spewing. "I'm doing this for those that follow me." What an ambiguous load of crap.

What about the guys that fight with you? What is this going to do for their chances of winning a ring in two years when we can't afford anyone else? They're real people, not nameless faces.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Based on some articles, his goal is now to set a new high mark to help other players that come after him get large contracts.


Denver Broncos linebacker Von Miller will not play this season under the franchise tag the Broncos placed on him because he believes the system represents a widespread fairness issue in the league.

“No, I’m not going to play on the franchise tag,” Miller told ESPN on Monday. “It just doesn’t make sense in any way.”

Miller has until Friday to either reach a new contract agreement with the Broncos or sign the $14.1 million franchise tag. If he does not, he would be considered a holdout and subject to fines. He has already skipped workouts to this point in the off-season.

AND


Miller said on ESPN that the dispute isn’t over the dollar amount of the contract, but rather an opportunity for him to address what he feels is an unfair system. He believes the franchise tag is unfair to players because it prevents them from exploring their value on the open market.

“I’ve never really played for money,” Miller said. “It’s bigger than that for me. It’s a league-wide problem that I feel like I’m in a situation to help out with.”

full article - http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/07/12/von-miller-denver-broncos-franchise-tag-league-wide-problem

[Ravage!!!]

I'm not usually one to jump on the "loyalty" train, and I have never boo'd a player that I can recall. I just don't buy the self-righteous line of crap he's spewing. "I'm doing this for those that follow me." What an ambiguous load of crap.

What about the guys that fight with you? What is this going to do for their chances of winning a ring in two years when we can't afford anyone else? They're real people, not nameless faces.

I agree with that.


Although, I do know that players get pressure from the Player's Union to not take big discounts so that the next guy gets more money. But I don't think he's just being the "good soldier." Seems Von has gotten really good about saying things that makes him 'appear like the good guy' to the press and media, and then turns around on his social media and shows his real self.

[Krugan]

AND



full article - http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/07/12/von-miller-denver-broncos-franchise-tag-league-wide-problem

Just inresponse to the line "its never been about money", again it is right now.

Im not sure I get it, i want more guarantee, but im not about money....

[LTC Pain]

Von needs to shut his pie hole. The more he says crap like “I’ve never really played for money,” while asking and holding out for more money is completely disingenuous and certainly diminishes himself in my view. There is no "me" in TEAM!

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I agree with that.


Although, I do know that players get pressure from the Player's Union to not take big discounts so that the next guy gets more money. But I don't think he's just being the "good soldier" Seems Von has gotten really good about saying things that makes him 'appear like the good guy' to the press and media, and then turns around on his social media and shows his real self.

Agreed, at the end of the day he's a rare talent and I hope they keep him, but his antics are starting to ware on me.

[Northman]

I love Von but at this point i really dont care if he leaves. I just cant seem to get worked up over these players anymore as i dont always understand their logic or line of thinking. Its already going to be a tough task to repeat as Champions so if they let him walk or trade him so be it. Sometimes it just doesnt work out even though i really thought we would sign the guy but it looks more and more like he is out the door. I just hope Elway doesnt fold and hand the franchise over to him because there just wont be enough to sign anyone else and the last thing this franchise needs is all the money wrapped up into one player.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I am wondering if all of the attention that Von got after he was the MVP of the SB, and is still getting, boosted his ego out of site. Maybe he needs to reel in that ego a couple of notches.

[Valar Morghulis]

Even if he does sign, i wont be buying a #58 jersey any more.

The dude is world class, but missed a season with injury and plenty of time due to drugs - we are not offering him peanuts either.

I hate the disparity between his words and actions. Maybe if he never said all that stuff about working it out easy and bronco for life, i would not be as bothered, for him it is a business after all - but no lifelong fan even comes close the type of money he is turning down to play for a franchise that i/we spend a large proportion of our disposable income on.

It might only be a business for them, but when they insinuate it is more than that, when they allude to the club meaning as much to them as it does to us, but don't live up to those words - it is disappointing.

[Tned]

I love Von but at this point i really dont care if he leaves. I just cant seem to get worked up over these players anymore as i dont always understand their logic or line of thinking. Its already going to be a tough task to repeat as Champions so if they let him walk or trade him so be it. Sometimes it just doesnt work out even though i really thought we would sign the guy but it looks more and more like he is out the door. I just hope Elway doesnt fold and hand the franchise over to him because there just wont be enough to sign anyone else and the last thing this franchise needs is all the money wrapped up into one player.

I think Elway should be reaching the point of saying, fine, sit out all year, next year, we will put the non exclusive franchise tag on you and see if a team will both sign you to a ground breaking deal to pave the road for future generations, AND give up a 1st and 3rd. If not, you can sit out 2017 as well.

At the same time Elway can point out to the other players that there is only so much cap to go around, and at this point he feels it's better to spread that wealth with Sanders and all the free agents coming due next year, rather than help Von reshape the NFL in his minds eye, eliminating the power of the collectively bargained franchise tag, etc.

**** him.

[Canmore]

I gave my Von jersey to my son. I wear my Bailey jersey. There was a class act.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Troy Renck ‏@TroyRenck 46m

Per @Millerlite40 he has plans for July 15. Will it include celebration? (h/t @robincarlin for alerting me of pic)

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I don't know, but I would think that DeMarcus has to be somewhat upset with what Von is doing, as well as some other players also.

[Northman]

I don't know, but I would think that DeMarcus has to be somewhat upset with what Von is doing, as well as some other players also.

Maybe. But then again maybe Von has talked with Ware and told him that he plans on holding out till the 15th just to push Denver's buttons. Players tend to stick together more than not when it comes to these kinds of things.

[CoachChaz]

I'm a fan of Von since his high school days, but at this point, I'd be accepting all calls with trade offers. Throw the ego out the window and I still have no desire to pay a LB that kind of money. Period. there is no way his performance as a LB can dictate that number.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Obviously Von was the MVP of the SB, but IMO, he could not have done what he did without the rest of the defensive players having an outstanding game, which enabled Von to do what he did.

[BroncoJoe]

I'm a fan of Von since his high school days, but at this point, I'd be accepting all calls with trade offers. Throw the ego out the window and I still have no desire to pay a LB that kind of money. Period. there is no way his performance as a LB can dictate that number.

It's really hard to disagree with you here. I personally don't think he's worth what we're offering for his position.

[Timmy!]

Lolz.

[Northman]

And i do want to state for the record that if by chance Von leaves or is traded i really dont want to hear that Denver short changed him or insulted his intelligence. The Broncos have done a lot the last 72 hours to try and get this man signed with a pretty reasonable offer. If Von doesnt sign it or think its enough than thats on him and nobody else.

[slim]

Lolz.

What are you lolzing at?

[Ravage!!!]

Obviously Von was the MVP of the SB, but IMO, he could not have done what he did without the rest of the defensive players having an outstanding game, which enabled Von to do what he did.

Truth be told, he wasn't nearly as 'devastating' when Ware wasn't in the lineup. Ware was 1b on that MVP ballot, imo.

[Timmy!]

What are you lolzing at?

People thinking it was never about the money.....that Von was gonna sign whatever just cause he's such a nice guy and loves the Broncos so much and now being all pissed off that it hasnt happened. If you didn't think this was going to go right to the deadline you haven't been paying attention to the market, and especially franchised players. Look at Dez and DT last year, and neither of them were coming off a Superbowl MVP. The whole I love Von!...wait, no **** Von! Burn his jersey!.... and in 3 days I love Von again thing cracks me up. Don't mind me, carry on.

[Northman]

People thinking it was never about the money.....that Von was gonna sign whatever just cause he's such a nice guy and loves the Broncos so much and now being all pissed off that it hasnt happened. If you didn't think this was going to go right to the deadline you haven't been paying attention to the market, and especially franchised players. Look at Dez and DT last year, and neither of them were coming off a Superbowl MVP. The whole I love Von!...wait, no **** Von! Burn his jersey!.... and in 3 days I love Von again thing cracks me up. Don't mind me, carry on.

To be fair its not a given he will sign with Denver. I think a lot of people thought Brock would stay to and that didnt happen. While there is a couple of days left to get Von signed i think its ok for people to kind of be tired of his antics at this point. Bottom line for me is if he signs great, if not, thats ok too. It isnt worth getting worked up over players anymore as they come and go all the time as it is.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

People thinking it was never about the money.....that Von was gonna sign whatever just cause he's such a nice guy and loves the Broncos so much and now being all pissed off that it hasnt happened. If you didn't think this was going to go right to the deadline you haven't been paying attention to the market, and especially franchised players. Look at Dez and DT last year, and neither of them were coming off a Superbowl MVP. The whole I love Von!...wait, no **** Von! Burn his jersey!.... and in 3 days I love Von again thing cracks me up. Don't mind me, carry on.

Was it NOT Von who stated that he wanted to be a Bronco for entire career??????


Von Miller wants to be a Bronco for “entire career”

Miller, 26, isn’t going anywhere. Nor does he want to.

“I have never been franchised before so I can’t really say, ‘Hey I don’t want to be franchised. I don’t want to do this.’ I can tell you what: I want to be with the Denver Broncos,” Miller said Tuesday night on the NFL Network. “I want to be with Derek Wolfe, Chris Harris, all those guys, DT (Demaryius Thomas). I want to be with those guys my whole career, and whatever it takes to get it done I am down for.”

http://www.denverpost.com/2016/02/29/von-miller-wants-to-be-a-bronco-for-entire-career/

[slim]

People thinking it was never about the money.....that Von was gonna sign whatever just cause he's such a nice guy and loves the Broncos so much and now being all pissed off that it hasnt happened. If you didn't think this was going to go right to the deadline you haven't been paying attention to the market, and especially franchised players. Look at Dez and DT last year, and neither of them were coming off a Superbowl MVP. The whole I love Von!...wait, no **** Von! Burn his jersey!.... and in 3 days I love Von again thing cracks me up. Don't mind me, carry on.

To be fair, there was an article posted were Von apparanetly said he doesn't care about the money and his issue is with the CBA.

I think that is what got people riled up.

[Timmy!]

I understand that, but what did you expect the guy to say? Not to mention all that came before the Broncosn first offer. From what I've read Von was "hurt" by the Broncos negotiation tactics, and he told Elway this in a one on one earlier this week when dialogue resumed. I can't fault the guy (or his agent) for trying to get the most they can. I think it gets done late Thursday, but if not its Millers choice. Business is business, and talk is cheap.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Broncos outside linebacker Von Miller insists that he will not play this season for the $14 million franchise tag, calling the tag itself a problem for players that he can help fix.

“No, I’m not gonna play on the franchise tag. It just doesn’t make sense in any way,” Miller said on ESPN.

Miller claims that his issue isn’t about the money. His issue is that the franchise tag is inherently unfair to NFL players because it restricts their ability to find out their true market value.

“I’ve never really played for money,” Miller said. “It’s bigger than that for me. It’s a league-wide problem that I feel like I’m in a situation to help out with.”

rest - http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/07/11/von-miller-i-wont-sign-franchise-tag-its-a-league-wide-problem/

[MOtorboat]

Shouldn't have jerked him around.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Shouldn't have jerked him around.

I don't feel they jerked him around. In contract negotiations, you always make an initial offer. Then you wait for a counter-offer to see what the other side has in mind. It's part of the process.

[Northman]

Lol

[Northman]

I don't feel they jerked him around. In contract negotiations, you always make an initial offer. Then you wait for a counter-offer to see what the other side has in mind. It's part of the process.

Agreed. Its how the game is played.

[dogfish]

"league wide problem". . . what an effing clown this guy has turned into. . . i'll continue to root for the jersey as long as he wears it, but i'm over him. . . YOUR union negotiated that "problem," jackass-- take it up with them if you don't like it. . . if he's just posturing for money i can understand it, even if it is a terrible look-- if he really wants to break the system at our expense, elway should ship his ass on down the road. . . if he's butthurt about all the guaranteed money NBA guys are getting, he should go work on his jump shot. . .

[MOtorboat]

I don't feel they jerked him around. In contract negotiations, you always make an initial offer. Then you wait for a counter-offer to see what the other side has in mind. It's part of the process.

Sure is part of the process. And they're still offering him below market, so why are we surprised or pissed off he doesn't want to sign it? He's not obligated to take less money than he's worth just because.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I am wondering if all of the attention that Von got after he was the MVP of the SB, and is still getting, boosted his ego out of site. Maybe he needs to reel in that ego a couple of notches.

That might play into it, and Denver's negotiating tactics might have backfired.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I don't feel they jerked him around. In contract negotiations, you always make an initial offer. Then you wait for a counter-offer to see what the other side has in mind. It's part of the process.

I don't think that's so much it, but the way they used the media.

[LTC Pain]

Sure is part of the process. And they're still offering him below market, so why are we surprised or pissed off he doesn't want to sign it? He's not obligated to take less money than he's worth just because.

"Give the next guy more" isn't necessarily the way market value is established!

[Timmy!]

Shouldn't have jerked him around.

Elway is a shrewd negotiator......also known as being damn good at his job. Miller wants paid, and is now busting out the patron saint for poor franchised players act. Not exactly shocking. The dance will continue until Elway makes a final offer Thursday. Miller then will likely take it, or tell the Broncos to pound sand and be much poorer for a year. Either way keep cool my babies, we are fine.

[BroncoJoe]

To be fair its not a given he will sign with Denver. I think a lot of people thought Brock would stay to and that didnt happen. While there is a couple of days left to get Von signed i think its ok for people to kind of be tired of his antics at this point. Bottom line for me is if he signs great, if not, thats ok too. It isnt worth getting worked up over players anymore as they come and go all the time as it is.

I root for the Broncos, not the player(s).

Now, the cheerleaders on the other hand....

[Northman]

I root for the Broncos, not the player(s).

Now, the cheerleaders on the other hand....

Yep. Players come and go but i root for the guy in orange and blue. If Von wants to be a part of that great, if not, hit the road jack. He's a talented player but he's also not the end of the world.

[Valar Morghulis]

“Business is business, and that’s his business. And he has to do what he’s gotta do. Obviously, I took a different route and decided that this is where I want to be so I’m going to take a significant haircut to stay here, and that’s fine with me. But some people don’t feel that way.” Derek wolfe

[LawDog]

This nonsense about comparing the NBA and NFL contracts drives me absolutely crazy. Other than the fact that they are both sports and both derive the vast majority of their incomes from selling entertainment, the cost structure of the two is not even close to being the same. The number of personnel (on field and off) required to run an NFL franchise is several multiples of that for an NBA club. The risk of injury (including career ending) for the NFL is the norm rather than the exception as in the NBA. These special snowflakes that expect multi-million (billion?) dollar operations to ignore that and just hand over tens of millions in guaranteed dough are just stupid. Show me one star NFL player who significantly improved their performance after signing a big money contract -- I can show you dozens of Flacco's (and DT's) who did the exact opposite.

Get the most you can - I'm all for that, but don't start whimpering about league-wide issues and making asinine comparisons of apples and sneakers.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

When Wolfe agreed to the deal last January during the playoffs, it was considered reasonable. But the space between his contract and former teammate Malik Jackson’s new six-year, $90 million contract (including $42 million guaranteed) with Jacksonville created debate.

Did Wolfe make a mistake? The idea hasn’t crossed his mind. He remembers growing up in a roller coaster of emotions, and later blossoming from the unbridled support of a small Ohio community, of having $7 to his name during his junior year of college before deciding to stay in school.

Regrets? He says he does not have any.

“Absolutely not. I did what I felt was right. I’m happy for Malik. He deserves it. I’m where I wanted to be. You can’t put a price on happiness,” Wolfe said, echoing comments he made when he accepted his contract. “I’m happy, and that’s all that really matters.”

http://www.denverpost.com/2016/05/27/dont-cry-for-derek-wolfe-he-loves-playing-for-broncos-at-any-price/

And here is a perfect example of a player being on the other side of the coin, and sticking by what he has said all along.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Von Miller is apparently on a crusade to save his fellow NFL players from the franchise tag. In a recent interview with ESPN Miller discussed his feelings, and how hurt he was over the Denver Broncos first contract proposal. I might get a little snippy here, but that may just be the Von Miller contract fatigue kicking in.

"I wanted to take my agent out of it, sometimes organizations think that agents have a different message than the player. So I wanted to call them (John Elway and Joe Ellis) and let them know that the message that I was trying to get across was coming straight from me. Then we made progress in that side of it, me being able to get some stuff off of my chest and getting a response from him (John Elway). Some of the tactics that they use to negotiate, they hurt... Some of that stuff just didn't have to be done, especially them knowing the type of guy that I am, the type of teammate that I am. I thought that we would just get in a room and knock this stuff out in a couple of hours. But, you know they have championship tactics, I don't agree with some of the stuff that they do, but obviously it works."

I am all for every player in the NFL getting as much money as they can, when they can. Careers are short, and nothing is guaranteed, so go get your money. However, I can’t stand when a player talks about their feelings being hurt when they are offered enough money to last a few lifetimes. Evidently, Miller doesn’t like the Broncos tactics, so he deployed some of his own.

"I'm not going to play for the franchise tag, it just doesn't make [any] sense in any way. You know, I've never really played for money, it's just not what I play for. So, it's hard to get me to do things for money. It's bigger than, you know, one year you gotta get this or miss out on that... It's bigger than that. It's a league wide problem that I feel like I am in a situation to help out with.”

So, now Miller isn’t just negotiating his own contract, but he is taking a stand against a league policy that was collectively bargained by his own union? Really Vonster? Is it so terrible to be in your position? All you have to do is show up and you get $14 million, and you are going to crusade against that? Now who is using negotiation tactics?

I get it, the Broncos need Miller, and he probably doesn’t need the Broncos. And I want the Broncos to sign the man, and he probably deserves $70 million guaranteed (as much as anybody deserves it). But going out of your way to essentially climb up on the franchise tag cross to save your brothers in arms? Give me a break.

Miller is going to sign with the Broncos (Tuesday is my day in the MHR pool), and all this animosity will turn to love and rainbows and unicorns dancing in the streets. John Elway and Miller will shake hands, laugh and get to work. Fatigue is setting in, and it has landed us in this awkward position where we hate hearing about our favorite team and player. Hate is a strong word, maybe we all need a break. Don’t worry. We will get it on Friday at the latest. Can you make it through the rest of the week?

http://www.milehighreport.com/2016/7/12/12157478/von-miller-on-a-crusade-to-save-the-nfl

[Northman]

http://www.milehighreport.com/2016/7/12/12157478/von-miller-on-a-crusade-to-save-the-nfl

I think that guy needs to come to grips with the realization that Von may not be back in Denver. Von is going to do what Von needs to do but Elway will do what is best for this franchise and if that means moving on without Von than thats how its going to be. No one needs to hate anyone in all this, just understand that it didnt work out for this particular player.

[LTC Pain]

http://www.milehighreport.com/2016/7/12/12157478/von-miller-on-a-crusade-to-save-the-nfl

Seems to me that Von's "Save the NFL" talk is all coming from his ego. Come back down to planet earth Von and remember you said you wanted to be a Bronco for life!

[slim]

Crusade to save the NFL.

lol

[TXBRONC]

I think that guy needs to come to grips with the realization that Von may not be back in Denver. Von is going to do what Von needs to do but Elway will do what is best for this franchise and if that means moving on without Von than thats how its going to be. No one needs to hate anyone in all this, just understand that it didnt work out for this particular player.

I haven't kidded myself about the possibility that Von might not come back.

[underrated29]

If he does not come back it will likely be 2 -1sts and a 3rd for him unless it is a garbage team like the titans or bucs

[slim]

Sure is part of the process. And they're still offering him below market, so why are we surprised or pissed off he doesn't want to sign it? He's not obligated to take less money than he's worth just because.

But it's not about the money. He is on a crusade.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

As Friday approaches, the contract tiff between Von Miller and the Broncos is getting a little more ugly. On Monday, Miller called the franchise tag a "league-wide problem," adding he would refuse to sign it. Then, on Tuesday, one of the Miller's teammates took a subtle shot at the Super Bowl MVP for his unwillingness to take a pay cut.

Defensive lineman Derek Wolfe, who re-upped with the Broncos this offseason, acknowledged that he took a pay cut -- or as he put it, a "haircut" -- to remain in Denver. He then not-so-subtly ripped Miller for not doing the same.

"Business is business, and that's his business. And he has to do what he's got to do," Wolfe told SiriusXM NFL Radio. "Obviously, I took a different route and decided that this is where I wanted to be so I'm going to take a significant haircut to stay here and that's fine with me. But some people don't feel that way."

Wild guess here, but I'm betting "some people" is actually Von Miller. Again, it's just a guess.

rest plus video on link - http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/broncos-player-on-von-miller-some-people-arent-willing-to-take-a-pay-cut/

Derek on SiruxXM NFL Radio - https://soundcloud.com/siriusxmnfl/derek-wolfe-i-stay-out-of-von-millers-business

[Northman]

I love Derek for doing what he did but maybe he was comfortable with the amount that Denver offered and thats fine. He had to make a choice that worked best for him and in his situation but clearly Von doesnt see it that way so if it doesnt happen for him in Denver than i hope Von is happy wherever he lands.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I love Derek for doing what he did but maybe he was comfortable with the amount that Denver offered and thats fine. He had to make a choice that worked best for him and in his situation but clearly Von doesnt see it that way so if it doesnt happen for him in Denver than i hope Von is happy wherever he lands.

My thought is - just how much MONEY does someone need?????? I am sure Derek got more than enough to live a very comfortable lifestyle. To me, it is NEED VS WANT

[spikerman]

rest plus video on link - http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/broncos-player-on-von-miller-some-people-arent-willing-to-take-a-pay-cut/

Derek on SiruxXM NFL Radio - https://soundcloud.com/siriusxmnfl/derek-wolfe-i-stay-out-of-von-millers-business
This is what concerns me. Even if Miller comes back, will the locker room be divided? I hope not. The problem with the total silence now is that it's leading to a ton of speculation.

[MOtorboat]

My thought is - just how much MONEY does someone need?????? I am sure Derek got more than enough to live a very comfortable lifestyle. To me, it is NEED VS WANT

The same could be said about the profit of the organization.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

The reality is the players get a certain percentage of the pie. Von's noble crusade might help a select few, but it takes away from those in the mid to mi imum pay range. Is he really too ignorant not to know that?

[Northman]

The reality is the players get a certain percentage of the pie. Von's noble crusade might help a select few, but it takes away from those in the mid to mi imum pay range. Is he really too ignorant not to know that?

You are talking about a guy who tried to cheat a piss test and failed miserably.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Tracking Von Miller remains an easy task. He chronicles his life on Snapchat and Instagram. Miller revealed Tuesday he was hosting a pre-ESPY party with a Sunset Boulevard performance by rapper O.T. Genasis. He is attending the ESPYs on Wednesday, nominated for an individual performance. And Friday, he plans to be in Salt Lake City watching his “Dancing With The Stars” partner Whitney Carson perform.

So we know where Von is going to be. Predicting what Miller is going to do? Well, that continues to raise blood pressure in the Rocky Mountains. After the Broncos’ significant push forward in negotiations last weekend, Miller and the team face a 2 p.m. Friday deadline to reach a deal on a long-term contract or shelve negotiations until after the 2017 season.

Miller continues to insist he won’t sign the exclusive franchise tag, determined to sit out rather than play on a one-year, $14.2 million contract. If he held true to his word, the Broncos could not place an exclusive tag on him in back-to-back seasons. The Broncos are not looking to trade Miller, remaining focused on securing the outside linebacker well beyond this season. In theory, trading Miller makes sense only if he was moved before the Friday deadline, allowing a new team a window to work out a long-term deal. Otherwise, a suitor would be limited in what it was willing to surrender in return.

rest - http://www.denverpost.com/2016/07/12/von-miller-contract-negotiations-denver-broncos/

[slim]

The same could be said about the profit of the organization.

If he doesn't like what the organization is willing to pay him, he can crusade his dumb ass to Detroit and play for a loser the rest of his career.

[slim]

Do they allow chicken farming in Detroit?

[tomjonesrocks]

What else could be happening other than him demanding a trade at this point?

Pretty annoying.

[slim]

What else could be happening other than him demanding a trade at this point?

Pretty annoying.

I think most of the FO is on vacation. LOL.

I hope all the resort fax machines are working.

[slim]

The same could be said about the profit of the organization.

It's not about the money...

[tomjonesrocks]

It's not about the money...

Just don't think his makes the Broncos look very good. You can't even win a SB MVP here and have a clean negotiation. If he signs - something that looks unlikely - hope the $2M or whatever saved was worth it.

[slim]

Just don't think his makes the Broncos look very good. You can't even win a SB MVP here and have a clean negotiation. If he signs - something that looks unlikely - hope the $2M or whatever saved was worth it.

Their initial offer was embarrassing...I can't argue otherwise.

But at this point it's on Von, IMO. They ultimately stepped up and made a reasonable offer. If it's not good enough for him then his expectations are unreasonable.

[MOtorboat]

Just don't think his makes the Broncos look very good. You can't even win a SB MVP here and have a clean negotiation. If he signs - something that looks unlikely - hope the $2M or whatever saved was worth it.

Exactly. Broncos penny pinching a billion dollar business is annoying.

[spikerman]

I hate to speculate. Everything could be fine, but I hope he's not trying to force the Broncos into a trade.

[BroncoWave]

As much as the Super Bowl win will keep me happy and hold me over as a fan for a while, it would be pretty devastating to lose Von. He has far and away become my favorite Bronco.

[slim]

Exactly. Broncos penny pinching a billion dollar business is annoying.

But penny pinching a $116M contract is okay, though?

[tomjonesrocks]

As much as the Super Bowl win will keep me happy and hold me over as a fan for a while, it would be pretty devastating to lose Von. He has far and away become my favorite Bronco.

It really would. I think that would be more disastrous than a Clady-like poor investment in the event Von got hurt.

Going cheap at QB left them in the perfect position to pay Von. I'm disappointed.

[MOtorboat]

But penny pinching a $116M contract is okay, though?

When he can get cut at any moment, yeah.

[slim]

Let's lay the numbers out and look at them.

The only thing that matters is guaranteed money. Does anyone know how far apart they are on that?

[slim]

When he can get cut at any moment, yeah.

See my next post.

Let's talk guarantees.

[MOtorboat]

Let's lay the numbers out and look at them.

The only thing that matters is guaranteed money. Does anyone know how far apart they are on that?

At last report about $3 million, maybe a little more.

[tomjonesrocks]

Let's lay the numbers out and look at them. The only thing that matters is guaranteed money. Does anyone know how far apart they are on that?

It sounds like about 9M.

[MOtorboat]

It sounds like about 9M.

Does he want $70? I guess I missed that.

[slim]

It sounds like about 9M.

Well, let's look at the actual numbers, if anyone knows them.

[MOtorboat]

Well, let's look at the actual numbers, if anyone knows them.

Last report I saw was $61. $63 is what a lesser player received.

[spikerman]

Last report I saw was $61. $63 is what a lesser player received.

How in the hell can we expect him to feed his family on $61 million?

[slim]

Last report I saw was $61. $63 is what a lesser player received.

Okay, if you came to me and asked me to pay you $100,000 for a job (not a blow job, but a real job) and I said I will give you $95,000 instead....would that be an insult to you?

[tomjonesrocks]

Does he want $70? I guess I missed that.

Who knows if it's accurate, but yeah, I've seen that number. 64 should have been the minimum to your point. But I did hear 70 would get the job done.

[spikerman]

The problem is that if the Broncos meet those demands they'll be handcuffed by the cap for years.

[MOtorboat]

How in the hell can we expect him to feed his family on $61 million?

Because the Broncos are hurting for money and might fold? Because that's the counter here. Teams are so successful at sucking people into thinking the player is the greedy one.

[MOtorboat]

The problem is that if the Broncos meet those demands they'll be handcuffed by the cap for years.

No they won't.

[Slick]

Just because the Eagles gave Cox a shitton of money and the Dolphins gave Suh what they gave him doesn't mean Elway has to follow suit. Two ridiculously large contracts by mediocre franchises shouldn't dictate what Elway pays Von. I'm glad John is playing this the way he is. If Von was insulted at the Broncs first offer, tough shit.

[slim]

The problem is that if the Broncos meet those demands they'll be handcuffed by the cap for years.

The problem is ego, IMO.

If you let ego influence your business decisions, you will never be successful in business.

[MOtorboat]

Okay, if you came to me and asked me to pay you $100,000 for a job (not a blow job, but a real job) and I said I will give you $95,000 instead....would that be an insult to you?

I'm obligated to take the lower amount?

[slim]

I'm obligated to take the lower amount?

No, you can sit on your ass and make nothing.

[spikerman]

Because the Broncos are hurting for money and might fold? Because that's the counter here. Teams are so successful at sucking people into thinking the player is the greedy one.
It's not about the Broncos being able to afford it. $61 million is not being cheap. It's the future cap implications. If the Eagles want to blow their cap that's their business, the Broncos shouldn't govern by their rules.

[MOtorboat]

It's not about the Broncos being able to afford it. $61 million is not being cheap. It's the future cap implications. If the Eagles want to blow their cap that's their business, the Broncos shouldn't govern by their rules.

Then don't expect to sign many guys.

[Northman]

Their initial offer was embarrassing...I can't argue otherwise.

But at this point it's on Von, IMO. They ultimately stepped up and made a reasonable offer. If it's not good enough for him then his expectations are unreasonable.

Boom.

The fact is Denver upped their ante and offered him pretty close to what he wanted. If he isnt willing to meet them in the middle than its no longer Denver's fault. Now its just Von acting like Jay Cutler at this point.

[spikerman]

Then don't expect to sign many guys.

They wouldn't be able to anyway.

[Northman]

Just because the Eagles gave Cox a shitton of money and the Dolphins gave Suh what they gave him doesn't mean Elway has to follow suit. Two ridiculously large contracts by mediocre franchises shouldn't dictate what Elway pays Von. I'm glad John is playing this the way he is. If Von was insulted at the Broncs first offer, tough shit.

It could be said that the reason the Eagles and Dolphins are where they are is because of bad money management. Denver doesnt need to do that in order to be successful.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

KUSA - Sweet dreams, Von Miller.

The Denver Broncos made a serious push towards retaining their star linebacker by sweetening their offer not once, but twice in the past 24 hours.

The Broncos and Miller had agreed last month on a six-year, $114.5 million framework that would make the Super Bowl 50 MVP the highest paid defensive player by average at $19.083 million per year.

There had been significant differences between the two sides, however, in how the contract was to be structured. For the first time since June 7, the Broncos submitted a new proposal Thursday afternoon that increased the guaranteed portion in both trigger language and dollars.

A potential breakthrough in negotiations occurred when the Broncos moved the full guarantee mechanism of their proposed $19 million salary to Miller in 2018 – the third year of their six-year offer – up a year to March of 2017. The ‘’early trigger’’ all but fully guarantees the third year because with the second year already fully guaranteed, the chances are almost nil the Broncos would release Miller prior to the second year of his deal.

Miller’s agent, Joby Branion, submitted a counterproposal to the Broncos on Friday morning. Branion and Elway then spoke by phone with the Broncos’ general manager saying he would respond later in the day.

Late Friday afternoon, Elway submitted another proposal to Branion that again enriched the guaranteed portion.

Miller neither accepted nor rejected the Broncos’ latest proposal. Branion informed Elway that Miller would sleep on it and the two sides would talk again Saturday.

http://www.9news.com/sports/broncos-make-second-proposal-in-24-hours-to-von-miller/268190738

[MOtorboat]

They wouldn't be able to anyway.

Manning's much larger contract didn't stop them before, I refuse to believe Miller's contract would in the future.

[spikerman]

http://www.9news.com/sports/broncos-make-second-proposal-in-24-hours-to-von-miller/268190738

Cheap ********. :rolleyes:

[spikerman]

Manning's much larger contract didn't stop them before, I refuse to believe Miller's contract would in the future.
At some point they'll have to pay a QB.

[Slick]

I wonder what Chris Harris and Derek Wolfe think about all this.

[Northman]

I wonder what Chris Harris and Derek Wolfe think about all this.

Wolfe thinks Von is being a dick. But not in so many words. lol

[LTC Pain]

Last report I saw was $61. $63 is what a lesser player received.

A lesser player who was OVERPAID!!!

[MOtorboat]

A lesser player who was OVERPAID!!!

Too damn bad. The market is set. Don't meet the market and the best player on the team isn't going to be playing. I hope Shane Ray is ready to go.

[Northman]

Too damn bad. The market is set. Don't meet the market and the best player on the team isn't going to be playing. I hope Shane Ray is ready to go.

Well, he was drafted in the first round for a reason. Again, it sucks but damn if Von is going to be petty over $61 mil im not sure what else Denver can do if they feel that is the max they can put forward into one player.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I wonder what Chris Harris and Derek Wolfe think about all this.

Derek Wolfe - http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/07/12/derek-wolfe-admits-he-took-a-significant-haircut-to-stay-in-denver/

[chazoe60]

You guys need to chill. Von will sign. I'm not even slightly worried.

[slim]

1
Too damn bad. The market is set. Don't meet the market and the best player on the team isn't going to be playing. I hope Shane Ray is ready to go.

Then trade his dumb ass.

Ain't nobody holding #7 hostage

[slim]

You guys need to chill. Von will sign. I'm not even slightly worried.

Im not worried either.

#7 is in charge.

[Tned]

Exactly. Broncos penny pinching a billion dollar business is annoying.

Define billion dollar business.

[spikerman]

You guys need to chill. Von will sign. I'm not even slightly worried.

This is the problem. The silence is deafening. It could be a good thing or a bad thing. I want him to sign, but not to hold the team hostage. Hopefully by Friday we can all have a good laugh.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

from article:


The issue comes down to money -- even if Miller says it's not about the money -- because the disagreements involving a long-term solution revolve around when non-guaranteed money becomes fully guaranteed. NFL Media's Mike Garafolo reported Friday that the Broncos moved up the date when some of the money becomes guaranteed, but it still wasn't good enough for Miller, who rejected Denver's latest proposal.

full article - plus video - http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000674283/article/chris-harris-von-miller-only-plays-if-new-deal-gets-done

[MOtorboat]

Define billion dollar business.

You're right. That is it's likely worth, not its operating money. Used exaggeration for effect. It's a literary tool used to make a point. We both know $61 and $70 guaranteed doesn't break the bank for the Broncos.

[MOtorboat]

At some point they'll have to pay a QB.

$61 million guaranteed and $70 million guaranteed doesn't affect the cap. The cap number is still the same and was agreed upon and set a month ago.

[slim]

$61 million guaranteed and $70 million guaranteed doesn't affect the cap. The cap number is still the same and was agreed upon and set a month ago.

But unreasonable expectations are still unreasonable

[Tned]

You're right. That is it's likely worth, not its operating money. Used exaggeration for effect. It's a literary tool used to make a point. We both know $61 and $70 guaranteed doesn't break the bank for the Broncos.

No, I but it might prevent signing Sanders or one of next year's free agents.

[MOtorboat]

No, I but it might prevent signing Sanders or one of next year's free agents.

But it won't. The money is set. The only negotiation is what of it is guaranteed.

They aren't haggling over the per year or the total, only the guaranteed, which doesn't affect their ability to sign other players.

[spikerman]

$61 million guaranteed and $70 million guaranteed doesn't affect the cap. The cap number is still the same and was agreed upon and set a month ago.

If that were true, the Broncos wouldn't be so reluctant to move to that number.

[MOtorboat]

If that were true, the Broncos wouldn't be so reluctant to move to that number.

Obviously they are, which is why I have a problem with it.

[slim]

But it won't. The money is set. The only negotiation is what of it is guaranteed.

They aren't haggling over the per year or the total, only the guaranteed, which doesn't affect their ability to sign other players.

That doesn't make any sense.

[Tned]

But it won't. The money is set. The only negotiation is what of it is guaranteed.

They aren't haggling over the per year or the total, only the guaranteed, which doesn't affect their ability to sign other players.

One, but we don't know that for sure.

Two, that's 9 million more that has to be escrowed, which is a cash flow issue.

[Northman]

But it won't. The money is set. The only negotiation is what of it is guaranteed.

They aren't haggling over the per year or the total, only the guaranteed, which doesn't affect their ability to sign other players.

If it was as easy as just paying $70 mil they would have and not wasted everyone's time. I think you are a bit off with the idea that the cap isnt a factor with other contract negotiations.

[MOtorboat]

That doesn't make any sense.

Why? Whether half of the fourth year is guaranteed or not has nothing to do with what his cap hit will be. It will be the same number either way.

[slim]

Why? Whether half of the fourth year is guaranteed or not has nothing to do with what his cap hit will be. It will be the same number either way.

There are two sides, cap and cash.

They are not the same

[MOtorboat]

There are two sides, cap and cash.

They are not the same

So are the Broncos hard up for cash?

[slim]

So are the Broncos hard up for cash?

Hell if i know.

Is Von?

[slim]

Crusades are expensive, i bet Von needs cash

[Tned]

So are the Broncos hard up for cash?

Based on everyone that has covered the Broncos for the last couple decades, yes. It's been a recurring theme, even when Mr. Bowlen was running things. They aren't a big market team. They aren't owed by billionaire (money outside the team). Ted Sundquist wrote about this several years ago. I believe Mason has written about it. More recently, as couple current beat reporters have addressed it. Cash flow is a major issue for the team.

Sundquist said that the team used to schedule their roster/workout bonuses and other payments to coincide with when season ticket invoices were due, so that they could use that cash to help pay the bonuses.

So, cap is a consideration and making sure the team isn't hamstrung in the future, such as if Von decides to go smoke another joint or have someone in another city fake his urine test (or gets hurt or does a vanishing act like C2k or whatever that Tenn RB called himself), but it's also about cash flow and how much has to be stuck in Escrow at signing and how much has to be put in escrow say in March of '17, if the third year becomes guaranteed then.

Elway has been clear that he wants to win now and from now on, and he has to be smart and not do what so many other teams have done, and Shanahan did a bunch at the end of his Denver tenure, which is to be in constant cap hell burdened by dead money.

As to your earlier comment about "he can be cut anytime." That's kind of ridiculous. First, with a contract of Von's nature, it's impossible to cut him in the first two years, and even the third year is all but impossible (guaranteed or not, due to the cap hit). Yes, on the back end of his contract he can be cut, with a decreasing cap hit (depending on how much of the contract is signing bonus), but that will be after pocketing $70 million or so and being free to hit the open market again.

We aren't talking about a poor Wal-mart clerk working in a right to work state that can be cut anytime, Von is going to be making a shit pot full of money regardless.

For those throwing out Fletcher Cox, isn't he also on a team that has struggled to compete and is paying their QBs something like $40 million? I don't think we need to use other teams stupidity as a yardstick for what Elway should do. If Von is only interested in going to the highest bidder, then let him sit out and go the route Julius Thomas and Malik Jackson did next year.

Another thing that people fail to realize is that by Von trying to break new ground for the kids that come after him, he's taking money out of his teammates pockets that are playing with him now, because the Broncos are going to struggle to pay the other players that need to be resigned this year and next. There is only so much cap space, and regardless of what an idiot like Malik Jackson says, Mr. Elway could not have easily paid all of them. I'm guessing math wasn't one of Jackson's best classes in college.

[JPPT1974]

It could be more than just money. But about retiring as a Bronco. For one thing.

[TXBRONC]

But it won't. The money is set. The only negotiation is what of it is guaranteed.

They aren't haggling over the per year or the total, only the guaranteed, which doesn't affect their ability to sign other players.

You don't know what effect it will have in the future.

[MOtorboat]

You don't know what effect it will have in the future.

Great point. No one here knows the future.

[Simple Jaded]

If Miller is serious about setting new standards then his rhetoric about wanting to "be with his guys" is completely full of shit, and the nonsense about crusading against the Franchise Tag only helps the 5-10 guys that get tagged each year, the other 99% (namely his "his guys") gets ****** while Miller, Wilkerson and Suh's sign NBA type deals.

The Franchise Tag isn't going anywhere, it's doing exactly what it's been implemented for.

It feels like playing for the Broncos and with his teammates is the lowest of his priorities. Dude wants the status of being highest paid and he sounds obscenely butthurt that he is being denied the opportunity to hit the open market. That's what I get from what he's saying.

I've said it before and I'm even more convinced now, the Broncos can't win this, make him the highest paid player and move on.

[Tned]

If Miller is serious about setting new standards then his rhetoric about wanting to "be with his guys" is completely full of shit, and the nonsense about crusading against the Franchise Tag only helps the 5-10 guys that get tagged each year, the other 99% (namely his "his guys") gets ****** while Miller, Wilkerson and Suh's sign NBA type deals.

The Franchise Tag isn't going anywhere, it's doing exactly what it's been implemented for.

It feels like playing for the Broncos and with his teammates is the lowest of his priorities. Dude wants the status of being highest paid and he sounds obscenely butthurt that he is being denied the opportunity to hit the open market. That's what I get from what he's saying.

I've said it before and I'm even more convinced now, the Broncos can't win this, make him the highest paid player and move on.

His union negotiated the franchise tag in the last CBA and made several changes, including that the second year could only be a non exclusive tag, and more important, to prevent franchising the same player multiple times, the second year has to be 20% more than the first year, and the third year 44% more than the second year.

These were all the changes that the NFL Players Association (union) wanted, negotiate and got in the current CBA.

So, Von's comments are either naive or disingenuous. Either way, the Broncos should play hard ball now that he's gone down this path. Call his bluff and see if he wants to sit out a year.

[TXBRONC]

Great point. No one here knows the future.

So why are claiming to know it?

[LTC Pain]

For what it's worth. Hope he's right!

"I expect Von to be signed Thursday night, Friday morning at the latest," Harris told NFL Network on Tuesday. "I think everybody in the Broncos' organization knows how crucial he is to our defense and the type of player that he is, even the person that he's become. He had some obstacles he had to overcome early in his career but I think he's overcame those and I think he's ready to lead now."

http://www.thescore.com/nfl/news/1058799-harris-expects-miller-to-sign-by-friday-morning-at-the-latest

[slim]

I'm sure they will work it out, assuming Von is done with his crusade

[Krugan]

But it won't. The money is set. The only negotiation is what of it is guaranteed.

They aren't haggling over the per year or the total, only the guaranteed, which doesn't affect their ability to sign other players.

Unless the Broncos are again in a cash flow situation, which they have been before, so that 9 million dollars has to come from somewhere, so ya, it could make a huge difference.

Tned already covered this, late to the party and reading the rest of the posts was to hard for today :)

[BroncoJoe]

I like how liberal MO is with spending other people's money.

Also, the Manning deal is nothing like this. Manning's was a year-to-year thing. Yes, $20 million per year, but none of it was guaranteed or put in an escrow account.

[MOtorboat]

I like how liberal MO is with spending other people's money.

What a bitch comment this is. And you wonder why I've been ******* to you lately?

[LawDog]

If and when dude signs this huge contract with the Broncos, he damn well better play at a very high level with none of the prior bullshit issues or I will personally burn his jersey in the parking lot at Dove Valley.

[BroncoJoe]

What a bitch comment this is. And you wonder why I've been ******* to you lately?

No, I don't wonder.

You were wrong about the Manning comparison, and I don't believe you're correct about the Von situation either. And how is my comment a bitch statement? Jesus, MO. You have repeatedly said they should just pay him. All I said is you're good at spending other peoples money.

Take a break. You need it.

[slim]

What a bitch comment this is. And you wonder why I've been ******* to you lately?

Don't be so sensitive, Mo.

We are all friends here.

[Ravage!!!]

I absolutely hate how people act in an election year with this crap.

[slim]

Except for me and Dave.

I hate that guy.

[MOtorboat]

Based on everyone that has covered the Broncos for the last couple decades, yes. It's been a recurring theme, even when Mr. Bowlen was running things. They aren't a big market team. They aren't owed by billionaire (money outside the team). Ted Sundquist wrote about this several years ago. I believe Mason has written about it. More recently, as couple current beat reporters have addressed it. Cash flow is a major issue for the team.

Sundquist said that the team used to schedule their roster/workout bonuses and other payments to coincide with when season ticket invoices were due, so that they could use that cash to help pay the bonuses.

So, cap is a consideration and making sure the team isn't hamstrung in the future, such as if Von decides to go smoke another joint or have someone in another city fake his urine test (or gets hurt or does a vanishing act like C2k or whatever that Tenn RB called himself), but it's also about cash flow and how much has to be stuck in Escrow at signing and how much has to be put in escrow say in March of '17, if the third year becomes guaranteed then.

Elway has been clear that he wants to win now and from now on, and he has to be smart and not do what so many other teams have done, and Shanahan did a bunch at the end of his Denver tenure, which is to be in constant cap hell burdened by dead money.

As to your earlier comment about "he can be cut anytime." That's kind of ridiculous. First, with a contract of Von's nature, it's impossible to cut him in the first two years, and even the third year is all but impossible (guaranteed or not, due to the cap hit). Yes, on the back end of his contract he can be cut, with a decreasing cap hit (depending on how much of the contract is signing bonus), but that will be after pocketing $70 million or so and being free to hit the open market again.

We aren't talking about a poor Wal-mart clerk working in a right to work state that can be cut anytime, Von is going to be making a shit pot full of money regardless.

For those throwing out Fletcher Cox, isn't he also on a team that has struggled to compete and is paying their QBs something like $40 million? I don't think we need to use other teams stupidity as a yardstick for what Elway should do. If Von is only interested in going to the highest bidder, then let him sit out and go the route Julius Thomas and Malik Jackson did next year.

Another thing that people fail to realize is that by Von trying to break new ground for the kids that come after him, he's taking money out of his teammates pockets that are playing with him now, because the Broncos are going to struggle to pay the other players that need to be resigned this year and next. There is only so much cap space, and regardless of what an idiot like Malik Jackson says, Mr. Elway could not have easily paid all of them. I'm guessing math wasn't one of Jackson's best classes in college.

The cap money is already agreed upon. The Broncos clearly don't have a problem with the cap hit of this contract, so we can set that aside again.

Maybe $3-9 million, whatever the extra number Von wants breaks the cash flow operation. Maybe. Personally, after watching this team spend a lot of money on free agents during Manning's tenure, I'm skeptical.

Why is it that Von is the only one making the big money here in your eyes? To continue your analogy that he's not a poor Wal-Mart worker making minimum wage, the Broncos aren't the little mom and pop store on the other side of town struggling to make it, either.

He can be cut at any time. Why shouldn't he negotiate to get the most he can in case that day comes? Now, if he doesn't sign it do I think that's a mistake? Yes, because I don't believe a year off will help his value. But should Denver pay their best player what the market has dictated? Yes. They should.

[Valar Morghulis]

Except for me and Dave. I hate that guy.

Stop showing off in front of your friends or I will publish screen pics of those sexts you keep sending me

[MOtorboat]

No, I don't wonder.

You were wrong about the Manning comparison, and I don't believe you're correct about the Von situation either. And how is my comment a bitch statement? Jesus, MO. You have repeatedly said they should just pay him. All I said is you're good at spending other peoples money.

Take a break. You need it.

And you took a lame, unnecessary political pot shot outside of the political forum for absolutely no reason. I'm not sure I'm the one who needs a break.

[BroncoJoe]

MO, the cap is directly affected by the guaranteed amount.

[MOtorboat]

MO, the cap is directly affected by the guaranteed amount.

How?

[BroncoJoe]

And you took a lame, unnecessary political pot shot outside of the political forum for absolutely no reason. I'm not sure I'm the one who needs a break.

There was zero political reference. The term liberal has many meanings, MO. I would have thought you would know this, considering your profession and all.

[BroncoJoe]

How?

If he takes a dump, and they have to cut him, the guaranteed money is accelerated to the year he is cut.

[slim]

I didn't read it as political at all.

Now Dave on the other hand, that guy gets political all the time and should probably be banned.

[MOtorboat]

There was zero political reference. The term liberal has many meanings, MO. I would have thought you would know this, considering your profession and all.

Lol.

[BroncoJoe]

Lol.

Sounds like a MO problem, not a BroncoJoe problem.

[MOtorboat]

If he takes a dump, and they have to cut him, the guaranteed money is accelerated to the year he is cut.

If he's cut in the first three years. Well, I guess you got me.

[Valar Morghulis]

I didn't read it as political at all. Now Dave on the other hand, that guy gets political all the time and should probably be banned.

Post reported

[BroncoJoe]

If he's cut in the first three years. Well, I guess you got me.

Are you guaranteeing that's not a possibility? There have been plenty of athletes whose production took a nosedive after signing a big-time contract. Or, what if he gets hurt? What if he decides that MJ is a good thing to partake in again?

If you're willing to guarantee that, you should let John Elway know.

[Tned]

Unless the Broncos are again in a cash flow situation, which they have been before, so that 9 million dollars has to come from somewhere, so ya, it could make a huge difference.

Tned already covered this, late to the party and reading the rest of the posts was to hard for today :)

It also isn't clear that an extra $9 million guaranteed wouldn't have cap consequences. Assuming they evenly split the $115 million or so over the six years, that would be something like $19.1 a year, so fully guaranteeing three years would only be about $57 million, which leaves say $13 million, which would presumably be signing bonus spread over those six years. If they increase the signing bonus by $9 million, for instance, that would increase Von's cap figure by $1.5 million a year, which doesn't sound like a lot, but with the number of free agents the Broncos have, that might mean not being able to hit the number Sanders wants or having to pass on one of next year's free agents.

Without knowing the exact structure of the contract, it's all guessing, but it is very likely that going from $61 to $70 million guaranteed would almost certainly have a cap implication, where going from 61 to 63 would as well, but much closer to insignificant. Maybe just forcing them to lose a veteran and keep a youngster instead (difference in veteran minimum vs. non-vet minimum).

[slim]

It's not about the money.

[Tned]

The cap money is already agreed upon. The Broncos clearly don't have a problem with the cap hit of this contract, so we can set that aside again.

Maybe $3-9 million, whatever the extra number Von wants breaks the cash flow operation. Maybe. Personally, after watching this team spend a lot of money on free agents during Manning's tenure, I'm skeptical.

Why is it that Von is the only one making the big money here in your eyes? To continue your analogy that he's not a poor Wal-Mart worker making minimum wage, the Broncos aren't the little mom and pop store on the other side of town struggling to make it, either.

He can be cut at any time. Why shouldn't he negotiate to get the most he can in case that day comes? Now, if he doesn't sign it do I think that's a mistake? Yes, because I don't believe a year off will help his value. But should Denver pay their best player what the market has dictated? Yes. They should.

Ok, if the cap hit is already agreed to, what form does that extra $9 million guarantee take. If you don't know that, you don't know there isn't an effective cap impact.

[MOtorboat]

Ok, if the cap hit is already agreed to, what form does that extra $9 million guarantee take. If you don't know that, you don't know there isn't an effective cap impact.

It can take a lot of different forms.

[Tned]

It can take a lot of different forms.

Fine, so give some examples of forms that would not have an effective cap impact to the Broncos over the first two or three years of the contract.

[MOtorboat]

Fine, so give some examples of forms that would not have an effective cap impact to the Broncos over the first two or three years of the contract.

A roster bonus three years from now, whether it's June or March isn't going to have the dire consequences you want it to have.

[slim]

A roster bonus three years from now, whether it's June or March isn't going to have the dire consequences you want it to have.

A roster bonus is not guaranteed.

Also, it's not about the money.

[Tned]

A roster bonus three years from now, whether it's June or March isn't going to have the dire consequences you want it to have.

A roster bonus three years from now isn't guaranteed. So, that isn't a form it could take that wouldn't have an effect on salary cap in the first three years.

If it's a roster bonus three years from now, if he's cut between now and then, he doesn't get it, so by definition it isn't guaranteed. If it's guaranteed now, it isn't a roster bonus (but a guaranteed salary or signing bonus) and would either impact that years salary, by having his cap that year at $28 million instead of $19.1, or would be a signing bonus spread over six years and raising his cap by $1.5 per year, every year.

There may be a form to do it, but I don't know if it, so can you give another example.

[Tned]

A roster bonus is not guaranteed.

Also, it's not about the money.

Damn you and your three word posts beating me to the punchline of my much more verbose response!!!

[slim]

Damn you and your three word posts beating me to the punchline of my much more verbose response!!!

Sometimes less is more, unless you are at a buffet or a stripclub

[BroncoJoe]

Sometimes less is more, unless you are at a buffet or a stripclub

And motorboating!

[NightTrainLayne]

MO, the cap is directly affected by the guaranteed amount.

No, Mo's right on this. Whether it's guaranteed or not, assuming we pay it to him at the time the contract stipulates it is the same.

[BroncoJoe]

No, Mo's right on this. Whether it's guaranteed or not, assuming we pay it to him at the time the contract stipulates it is the same.

Not if he needs to be cut for whatever reason. It locks the Broncos into Von regardless of his on field (or off field) play.

[chazoe60]

No, Mo's right on this.
A phrase never before used in human history.

[slim]

And motorboating!

And trolling Buff in the politics forum!

[NightTrainLayne]

Not if he needs to be cut for whatever reason. It locks the Broncos into Von regardless of his on field (or off field) play.

Yes, of course.

But then you're not really talking about the cap as much as trusting Von to hold up his end of the deal.

Assuming we don't need to cut Von in the first three years, the difference in the amount of guaranteed money vs. the cap hit is nil.

[BroncoJoe]

And trolling Buff in the politics forum!

Yes. That is like being that guy who has 100 orgasms every day.

[slim]

Yes. That is like being that guy who has 100 orgasms every day.

It's like being Dave?

[BroncoJoe]

Yes, of course.

But then you're not really talking about the cap as much as trusting Von to hold up his end of the deal.

Assuming we don't need to cut Von in the first three years, the difference in the amount of guaranteed money vs. the cap hit is nil.

Correct.

BUT, I guess we should just forget his past injuries, or his affection of marijuana. Or the simple fact that many, many players "lose something" after getting a ton of money upfront.

I think he deserves the money, but I also trust Elway more than Von to make the right decisions.

[slim]

Paying a LB QB money doesn't make a lot of sense.

I suppose if Lynch pans out then it won't matter, but that is a big if.

[Tned]

No, Mo's right on this. Whether it's guaranteed or not, assuming we pay it to him at the time the contract stipulates it is the same.

In practical terms this isn't acurate, as I've never seen a contract, for instance, that says the first three years are guaranteed, plus $3 million in year four, $3 million in year Five and $3 million in year six. This is nearly the only type of guaranteed money that wouldn't have an impact on the early years or in one specific year, but instead push the guarantee out to the second half of the year, so no impact in any given year.

However, even if Von agreed to it, unlikely, then the Broncos would be in a situation of having to accelerate it if they cut him, which means it does have an effective impact on the cap.

There is no free lunch, in practical terms, if you guarantee more money, you pretty much always impact the cap either via signing bonuses that are spread, or I guess theoretically, but guaranteeing a portion of the salaries in "every" year of the contract, which I can't recall ever seeing done.

[Tned]

Yes, of course.

But then you're not really talking about the cap as much as trusting Von to hold up his end of the deal.

Assuming we don't need to cut Von in the first three years, the difference in the amount of guaranteed money vs. the cap hit is nil.

P.S. To make your's and MO's assertions correct, it isn't not having to cut him in the first three years, it would be not cutting him in the first four years (if they extra $9 million is all guaranteed in year four) or not cutting him ever, if it's spread over years four-six.

[Northman]

Sometimes less is more, unless you are at a buffet or a stripclub

Come on Slim, i know you got a really good Joel post somewhere within you.

[Tned]

Come on Slim, i know you got a really good Joel post somewhere within you.

I was channeling Joel when writing my posts the last couple days, but still could only muster up around 3,000 characters or so, not a Joel worthy 10,000+ characters.

[Tned]

You're right. That is it's likely worth, not its operating money. Used exaggeration for effect. It's a literary tool used to make a point. We both know $61 and $70 guaranteed doesn't break the bank for the Broncos.

Ironically, this showed up on my Google News feed today.


After winning Super Bowl 50, the Broncos’ team value increased by 34 percent, but the franchise is still ranked No. 26 among Forbes’ world’s 50 most valuable sports teams, released Wednesday.

At $1.94 billion, the Broncos ranked No. 26 on the publication’s annual list for the second straight year. They were the only Colorado team to make the rankings.

Denver finished 11th among the 27 NFL teams on the list. The other teams included eight European soccer squads, eight from the NBA and seven from the MLB.


https://www.denverpost.com/2016/07/13/denver-broncos-ranked-no-26-among-forbes-2016-most-valuable-sports-teams/

[slim]

Come on Slim, i know you got a really good Joel post somewhere within you.

Oh Lord....I wouldn't even know where to begin.

[LTC Pain]

Oh Lord....I wouldn't even know where to begin.

Joel doesn't know when to end!

[wayninja]

So, did we win?

[NightTrainLayne]

P.S. To make your's and MO's assertions correct, it isn't not having to cut him in the first three years, it would be not cutting him in the first four years (if they extra $9 million is all guaranteed in year four) or not cutting him ever, if it's spread over years four-six.

Yes, I think we're on the same page. "If the money is paid to him when the contract stipulates".

The point is, that to the degree it impacts the cap, the team has already planned for that cap space based on the initial framework.

The issue isn't the cap. It appears to be the cash flows as many have alluded.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

There is a prevailing assumption within the NFL industry that come 2 p.m. Friday, the Denver Broncos will have reached a multiyear contract agreement with their star, franchise-tagged linebacker Von Miller.

I’m not so sure.

The reason I think Bronco fans should be concerned lies within the chronology of last week’s contract negotiations. The Broncos’ improved the guaranteed portion of their six-year, $114.5 million proposal on Thursday, then sweetened their guarantee again Friday.

Yet, Miller not only didn’t accept their offer, less than 24 hours later he again expressed his disappointment with the Broncos’ negotiating tactics. He said their tactics, specifically allowing the contract terms to become public on June 7, hurt him.

Von being Von, though, even while expressing a rare critique, he couldn’t help but give a compliment.

“They have championship tactics,’’ Miller said. “I don’t agree with some of the stuff they do, but obviously it works.”

rest - http://www.9news.com/sports/nfl/denver-broncos/mike-klis/broncos-deal-with-von-miller-hardly-a-sure-thing/272034850

[TXBRONC]

rest - http://www.9news.com/sports/nfl/denver-broncos/mike-klis/broncos-deal-with-von-miller-hardly-a-sure-thing/272034850

Carol you are usually our ray of sunshine on gloomy situations. I need some sunshine. :sad:

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Carol you are usually our ray of sunshine on gloomy situations. I need some sunshine. :sad:

I keep looking and hoping for it.

[Tned]

Yes, I think we're on the same page. "If the money is paid to him when the contract stipulates".

The point is, that to the degree it impacts the cap, the team has already planned for that cap space based on the initial framework.

The issue isn't the cap. It appears to be the cash flows as many have alluded.


As I asked MO, what is a form the extra 9 million guarantee wouldn't have a cap hit? His future roster bonus idea isn't guaranteed.

[NightTrainLayne]

As I asked MO, what is a form the extra 9 million guarantee wouldn't have a cap hit? His future roster bonus idea isn't guaranteed.


Yes, yes, yes. But does $9 million spread out over the life of the contract (assuming we don't cut him) create insurmountable problems? No, I can't imagine it does.

But an extra $9 million in actual cash that has to be banked is another issue, especially if they were already stretching to get there.

[TXBRONC]

I keep looking and hoping for it.

Hopefully we'll have good news some time tomorrow.

[Tned]

Yes, yes, yes. But does $9 million spread out over the life of the contract (assuming we don't cut him) create insurmountable problems? No, I can't imagine it does.

But an extra $9 million in actual cash that has to be banked is another issue, especially if they were already stretching to get there.

Is Sanders happy with $13 a year vs $14.5?

Not saying it is insurmountable, but it is incorrect (unless someone can give a form of guarantee I can't think of) to say the extra 9 doesn't have a cap impact.

[NightTrainLayne]

Is Sanders happy with $13 a year vs $14.5?

Not saying it is insurmountable, but it is incorrect (unless someone can give a form of guarantee I can't think of) to say the extra 9 doesn't have a cap impact.

But it's not the reason the deal isn't getting done. Can we agree on that?

[Tned]

But it's not the reason the deal isn't getting done. Can we agree on that?

If you want. I honestly don't know, since I'm not in the room. What I do know is that it isn't an insignificant cap impact. That said my gut says it's more about cash flow.

[Simple Jaded]

If he's cut in the first three years.

I think this is correct, a signing bonus would be what gets accelerated if he's cut beyond the third and final guaranteed year.

I don't know if any of us have any details on a signing bonus.

[Simple Jaded]

Oh Lord....I wouldn't even know where to begin.

Far as I can tell the most obvious place to begin a Joel dissertation is being dead wrong and completely incapable of dealing with being dead wrong.

[Simple Jaded]

I want Miller to be a Bronco, I want him to be happy with his contract.......but I'm officially sick to ****** death of hearing about how his feelings were hurt. He's taken no less of a hardline stance to these negotiations as the Broncos, his demands are every bit as extreme as Denver's and he's done just as much "leaking".

Near as I can tell Miller's expectations going into FA are as follows.
- Must be highest paid.
- Must have highest guaranteed money.
- Must have third year guaranteed, something only a handful of players have been given.
- Must do away with Franchise Tag.
- Must be able to do all this and more without any of it being made public.

Just give the dude his money and let's move on, you can't win them all.

[Tned]

Far as I can tell the most obvious place to begin a Joel dissertation is being dead wrong and completely incapable of dealing with being dead wrong.

Now, if we are going to talk about dead wrong, we need to first look at what dead wrong means.

Let's look at the word dead. It can mean many things. For instance:

No longer alive or numb or having no emotion (no female cracks please) or devoid of emotion or resembling death....

Or, finanically unproductive or dull, lacking gloss, or no longer functioning like a dead circuit...

How about no longer burning, like a candle in a really strong wind or stagnant or out of play, like a dead ball...

We could say it's dead as in dead silence or the lack of movement, like dead calm water....

Or, is it an adverb, such as completely (dead wrong) or dead ahead or the like.

And then we have wrong. Which can have many subtle variances.

For instance, the easy ones as in not correct or true, which we could call the BTB definition.

However, it can also be immoral or unjust....

Or is it an adverb or verb, and then it's like the act of being BTB or the act of being unjust or untrue.

So, when we say dead wrong, what do we mean.

If we look at what Bear Bryant once said, it isn't about scoring, it's about crushing the opponent. One could say that he was dead wrong, because winning a football game is only based on the score not intangibles like crushing an opponent, so one could say the Bear was dead wrong.

However, when Connie Chung said that a Fish called Wanda is not your average chicken. Was she wrong? Dead wrong? Or, was she trying to make a metaphorical or even metaphysical point? Can we really know? Can we say she was dead wrong or live right?

However, when it comes to....

Shit, what was my point? :confused:

[Tned]

I want Miller to be a Bronco, I want him to be happy with his contract.......but I'm officially sick to ****** death of hearing about how his feelings were hurt. He's taken no less of a hardline stance to these negotiations as the Broncos, his demands are every bit as extreme as Denver's and he's done just as much "leaking".

Near as I can tell Miller's expectations going into FA are as follows.
- Must be highest paid.
- Must have highest guaranteed money.
- Must have third year guaranteed, something only a handful of players have been given.
- Must do away with Franchise Tag.
- Must be able to do all this and more without any of it being made public.

Just give the dude his money and let's move on, you can't win them all.

Hurt my feelings. Mock my tat. Kick my chickens. Shit, bend me over and ____, well, you get the point.

I think I'll suck it up for $115 million and $61 million guaranteed, and oh by the way, get to defend my SB championship.

[Simple Jaded]

Now, if we are going to talk about dead wrong, we need to first look at what dead wrong means.

Let's look at the word dead. It can mean many things. For instance:

No longer alive or numb or having no emotion (no female cracks please) or devoid of emotion or resembling death....

Or, finanically unproductive or dull, lacking gloss, or no longer functioning like a dead circuit...

How about no longer burning, like a candle in a really strong wind or stagnant or out of play, like a dead ball...

We could say it's dead as in dead silence or the lack of movement, like dead calm water....

Or, is it an adverb, such as completely (dead wrong) or dead ahead or the like.

And then we have wrong. Which can have many subtle variances.

For instance, the easy ones as in not correct or true, which we could call the BTB definition.

However, it can also be immoral or unjust....

Or is it an adverb or verb, and then it's like the act of being BTB or the act of being unjust or untrue.

So, when we say dead wrong, what do we mean.

If we look at what Bear Bryant once said, it isn't about scoring, it's about crushing the opponent. One could say that he was dead wrong, because winning a football game is only based on the score not intangibles like crushing an opponent, so one could say the Bear was dead wrong.

However, when Connie Chung said that a Fish called Wanda is not your average chicken. Was she wrong? Dead wrong? Or, was she trying to make a metaphorical or even metaphysical point? Can we really know? Can we say she was dead wrong or live right?

However, when it comes to....

Shit, what was my point? :confused:

Solid effort, well done. If I had one complaint is that it's still a bit too easy to read, sprinkle in a few more obscure tangents that only you get.

[Tned]

Solid effort, well done. If I had one complaint is that it's still a bit too easy to read, sprinkle in a few more obscure tangents that only you get.

I will strive to do better....

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I will strive to do better....

I'm gone be a little harder on you here. You failed to use all caps on a single word....NOT ONE!!

[Tned]

I'm gone be a little harder on you here. You failed to use all caps on a single word....NOT ONE!!

DAMN. I WILL DO BETTER. By Von I will!

[TXBRONC]

Solid effort, well done. If I had one complaint is that it's still a bit too easy to read, sprinkle in a few more obscure tangents that only you get.

It also has to include some mention of what football was like in 1965 and how Von Miller should be moved to middle linebacker so he can be just like Dick Butkus.

[wayninja]

I'm starting to get the nervous, funny feeling that if a deal were going to get done, it would have been done by now. I hope I'm wrong here, but this nail biting yet completely unexciting shit is why I take summers off. No idea why I decided to come back and subject myself to this only risk/no reward aspect of football.

[slim]

I'm starting to get the nervous, funny feeling that if a deal were going to get done, it would have been done by now. I hope I'm wrong here, but this nail biting yet completely unexciting shit is why I take summers off. No idea why I decided to come back and subject myself to this only risk/no reward aspect of football.

It could just be gas.

[Ravage!!!]

I'm starting to get the nervous, funny feeling that if a deal were going to get done, it would have been done by now. I hope I'm wrong here, but this nail biting yet completely unexciting shit is why I take summers off. No idea why I decided to come back and subject myself to this only risk/no reward aspect of football.

I think it's just going to come down to the last few hours of the last day..because neither party wants to appear "nervous" ..or like they caved in first. It's going to be a standoff.

Personally...as much as I love Von, I've gotten the he point that I just don't care. PERHAPS, if we were on the "cusp" of winning a Super Bowl, I would be more concerned. But we just won it, and we don't have a QB ready to take us back.

We have the trophy that will keep the fans happy for a long time, and we know it will be a few more seasons before our young QB can be considered.

So Von's position doesn't exactly hold an "urgent need" right now, as we (as a team) are sitting back with our bellies full. We aren't starving.

[wayninja]

It could just be gas.

It can be 2 things.

[slim]

It can be 2 things.

mind=blown

[LTC Pain]

Just my two cents and I may be in the minority. If Von doesn't sign by the deadline by Friday and doesnt play this season because of his stance against the tag I will quickly become "anti-Von". I don't buy the "the next player gets more" BS.

[wayninja]

Just my two cents and I may be in the minority. If Von doesn't sign by the deadline by Friday and doesnt play this season because of his stance against the tag I will quickly become "anti-Von". I don't buy the "the next player gets more" BS.

I tend to agree. If what has been reported is accurate, the contract being offered is pretty damn good. Saying no to such huge, near team-breaking contract is a bit of a slap in the face.

I get he's the superbowl MVP and he deserves to be one of the top paid defensive players in the NFL. But enough is enough.

[slim]

Well, yeah...if he sit out the year he will be pretty roundly hated by Bronco fans.

[NightTrainLayne]

I can't imagine him sitting out the year.

From a financial perspective, he simply can't EVER make up a near $20 million hole in his career earnings. There's no way to do it.

[broncofaninfla]

I'm guessing now that he's the Super Bowl MVP he is probably making a pretty penny in endorsements too.

[NightTrainLayne]

I'm guessing now that he's the Super Bowl MVP he is probably making a pretty penny in endorsements too.

I don't have the numbers to quantify it, but if he sits out, he'll surely make less in endorsements as well.

[slim]

I don't have the numbers to quantify it, but if he sits out, he'll surely make less in endorsements as well.

It's not about the money. He is trying to save the players from a greedy NFL.

[NightTrainLayne]

It's not about the money. He is trying to save the players from a greedy NFL.

More power to him. He's saving John Elway $20 million.

[slim]

More power to him. He's saving John Elway $20 million.

He only cares about the little guy.

[Northman]

If Von gets the contract he wants the $14 mil he would lose by sitting out would be peanuts to what he would actually get. I dont think he is worried about sitting out.

[NightTerror218]

If Von gets the contract he wants the $14 mil he would lose by sitting out would be peanuts to what he would actually get. I dont think he is worried about sitting out.

Actually, not at all. The money overall is good but the guarenteed is what he does not like. Losing 14m is like losing 10%

[Northman]

Actually, not at all. The money overall is good but the guarenteed is what he does not like. Losing 14m is like losing 10%

If he signs the deal with $70 mil he gets way more than he would lose by sitting out.

[NightTerror218]

If he signs the deal with $70 mil he gets way more than he would lose by sitting out.

Over hiw lany yearsyears though. So if he maxes out a deal at $110M over 6 years niw, or loses $14M and takes a shot for that size of deal after sitting out a year is not as likely but he could. So he would get same and have 1 year of no pay in his prime.

[Joel]

He only cares about the little guy.
To be fair, wasn't Von the ONLY rookie co-plaintiff in the NFLPAs lawsuit over the last lockout? I remember they made a big deal out of it because they needed a rookie to help make the case their main concern was rookies and guys with short careers (not likely HoFers like, ironically, Von Miller's become.)

[Krugan]

Its to much, as much as i would hate to see him chasing a Bronco QB, im just not sold you can spend that kind of money on a LBer.

Guess time will tell, if he even decides to take this offer.

[slim]

To be fair, wasn't Von the ONLY rookie co-plaintiff in the NFLPAs lawsuit over the last lockout? I remember they made a big deal out of it because they needed a rookie to help make the case their main concern was rookies and guys with short careers (not likely HoFers like, ironically, Von Miller's become.)

Yes, he is a real hero.

He doesn't care about money at all.

[Ravage!!!]

If Von gets the contract he wants the $14 mil he would lose by sitting out would be peanuts to what he would actually get. I dont think he is worried about sitting out.

14 million isn't peanuts to anyone, and he wouldn't be able to make that up in other contracts. Someone would have to be willing to give him 14 million OVER what we offered in order for him to ever make that money up, and they would have to be willing offer tht 14 million in guaranteed money. THEN, he would be coming off a season where he sat out 10 games and a year older. Would he get the same offers after proving to be such a douche? I don't know, but I would doubt it.

[wayninja]

Everyone knows that teams with a defensive guy being their top paid player, usually go deep into the playoffs. So, I think he's sorta being altruistic here. Team player for the win!

In all seriousness, I understand that young athletes need to make hay while the sun is shining and all, but do you think they consider the ramifications to the competitiveness of the team when seeking these blockbuster deals?

I love me some Von Miller, but I can't help but be a bit depressed by the post-superbowl cashgrab that happens. I knew it was coming, but it doesn't make me feel any better about it.