Khalil Mack Rated Over Von Miller?

[WARHORSE]

Stupid.


Discuss.

[WARHORSE]

Mack had one 5 sack game against OZ in which Denver made no adjustments and OZ didnt know how to throw the ball away. Take that away.......ho hum.

[Simple Jaded]

What would Von do against Michael Schofeild?

[BroncoWave]

He's so low because this list was voted on before the playoffs started. Statistically, this was actually Von's weakest regular season, so that's probably why his rating was where it was. Had this been voted on after the Super Bowl, I have to imagine he would have been in the top 5 or so.

Having said this, it's absolutely stupid that he was behind Carson Palmer, Josh Norman, and Kahlil Mack even for the regular season. Palmer being that high is a travesty.

[BroncoWave]

What would Von do against Michael Schofeild?

And with Brock back there who can't read a blitz to save his life. That would have been RIP in peace Brock.

[Simple Jaded]

Von Miller is getting a heaping helping of motiv-*******-vation this offseason.

[Magnificent Seven]

If Von Miller is still whining about contract... I would trade Miller for Mack. Blockbuster Trade II.

[Valar Morghulis]

If Von Miller is still whining about contract... I would trade Miller for Mack. Blockbuster Trade II.

That would be bold!!

[WARHORSE]

He's so low because this list was voted on before the playoffs started. Statistically, this was actually Von's weakest regular season, so that's probably why his rating was where it was. Had this been voted on after the Super Bowl, I have to imagine he would have been in the top 5 or so.

Having said this, it's absolutely stupid that he was behind Carson Palmer, Josh Norman, and Kahlil Mack even for the regular season. Palmer being that high is a travesty.


RIGHT?

Ridiculous.

Im not sure about the timing of the vote, but agree with what you said if true. But even so, take away Macks day against Oz, where for some unknown reason we refused to double team Mack, and Oz didnt have the faculty to throw it away......Macks year is ho hum.

[WARHORSE]

If Von Miller is still whining about contract... I would trade Miller for Mack. Blockbuster Trade II.


Um......no.

Consider how many times Von even gets sent after the QB. He does more with less opportunity as far as rushing goes, but also is a stud in coverage.......didnt you watch the PLAYOFFS?


:coffee:

;)

[Magnificent Seven]

Um......no.

Consider how many times Von even gets sent after the QB. He does more with less opportunity as far as rushing goes, but also is a stud in coverage.......didnt you watch the PLAYOFFS?


:coffee:

;)

Good Point. However, did you watch Broncos vs. Raiders game at Denver? Mack was a beast in that game. Ryan Harris got bull-rushed by Mack and Mack got 5 sacks. Heh! I was pissed off at Harris!

[sneakers]

who cares? it's just some stupid list....same thing goes with power rankings lists

[DenBronx]

Who in the hell would even think that Mack is better than Miller outside of a raider fan? Mack got very lucky he was going up against a bum when they played us...and Brock also played like dog shit.

[TXBRONC]

If Von Miller is still whining about contract... I would trade Miller for Mack. Blockbuster Trade II.

Mack really is nearly as versitale and he also not a linebacker.

[GEM]

Good Point. However, did you watch Broncos vs. Raiders game at Denver? Mack was a beast in that game. Ryan Harris got bull-rushed by Mack and Mack got 5 sacks. Heh! I was pissed off at Harris!

Schofield gave Mack 5 sacks. It's easy to be a beast when the tackle lets you run over them play after play after play.

[Simple Jaded]

Harris gave up one of those sacks to Mack.

[WARHORSE]

Good Point. However, did you watch Broncos vs. Raiders game at Denver? Mack was a beast in that game. Ryan Harris got bull-rushed by Mack and Mack got 5 sacks. Heh! I was pissed off at Harris!

Sure.......go up a couple of posts. :)

[Magnificent Seven]

Sure.......go up a couple of posts. :)

I will stick with Von Miller over Mack. :salute:

[Poet]

Mack's biggest argument for being better than Von Miller can be found in the number of tackles each person had. If someone wants to argue that Mack is better this year, I still don't agree, but that's fine. However, Von Miller has shown he can get sacks in the 4-3 as an OLB, a DE, and from anywhere on the field via LB position in a 3-4. He's strong to great in coverage too, and that's not something we've seen from Mack. I think it's worthwhile to note that when Mack was being selected the pundits were comparing him to being like Von Miller. Or, to be less poetic, Mack needs to have years that trump Miiller's more average years and not his worst year as a pro.

[TXBRONC]

Mack's biggest argument for being better than Von Miller can be found in the number of tackles each person had. If someone wants to argue that Mack is better this year, I still don't agree, but that's fine. However, Von Miller has shown he can get sacks in the 4-3 as an OLB, a DE, and from anywhere on the field via LB position in a 3-4. He's strong to great in coverage too, and that's not something we've seen from Mack. I think it's worthwhile to note that when Mack was being selected the pundits were comparing him to being like Von Miller. Or, to be less poetic, Mack needs to have years that trump Miiller's more average years and not his worst year as a pro.

It's not just not a good comparison because they play different positions. If anyone wants to make a comparsion then compare Mack to Watt becasuse they both play on the line of scrimage.

[Devilspawn]

Mack's biggest argument for being better than Von Miller can be found in the number of tackles each person had. If someone wants to argue that Mack is better this year, I still don't agree, but that's fine. However, Von Miller has shown he can get sacks in the 4-3 as an OLB, a DE, and from anywhere on the field via LB position in a 3-4. He's strong to great in coverage too, and that's not something we've seen from Mack. I think it's worthwhile to note that when Mack was being selected the pundits were comparing him to being like Von Miller. Or, to be less poetic, Mack needs to have years that trump Miiller's more average years and not his worst year as a pro.
And tackles for losses. He's second in the league behind Watt. Miller has 3 years on Mack, so we'll have to wait and see where Mack is in 3 years to make a career comparison. Might as well wait until they retire. And Mack gets doubled a lot, I'm sure Von does too.

I thought both were top 10 to be honest.

Now, since I don't come here too often I need to know... what the hell happened to your username?

[Northman]

Now, since I don't come here too often I need to know... what the hell happened to your username?

King lost a bet with Von that we wouldnt win the Super Bowl. Thus in his loss King had to not only become a Bronco fan, but had to adopt part of Von's name and then sit still for one full hour while Von did his sack dance on King naked. I would show you the video but it was banned due to being mentally damaging to the human psyche.

[MOtorboat]

9170

[Poet]

And tackles for losses. He's second in the league behind Watt. Miller has 3 years on Mack, so we'll have to wait and see where Mack is in 3 years to make a career comparison. Might as well wait until they retire. And Mack gets doubled a lot, I'm sure Von does too.

I thought both were top 10 to be honest.

Now, since I don't come here too often I need to know... what the hell happened to your username?

Look, Mack is a stylegod and that's a fine player to build your defense around. I'm not trying to downplay Mack, although it probably sounds like I am.

In response to your last statement: Go Broncos.

[Devilspawn]

King lost a bet with Von that we wouldnt win the Super Bowl. Thus in his loss King had to not only become a Bronco fan, but had to adopt part of Von's name and then sit still for one full hour while Von did his sack dance on King naked. I would show you the video but it was banned due to being mentally damaging to the human psyche.
When you say sack dance... No no no never mind. I was drinking Lipton and put one and together I'll stop right now.



In response to your last statement: Go Broncos.
Damn shame.

That sure is a funky 1-step that player is doing behind Von. It's the only thing I will look at.

[slim]

9170

The only thing that matters.

[Joel]

Look, Mack is a stylegod and that's a fine player to build your defense around.
You'd think so, huh?

But sometimes stylegods get greedy: Then you have to kick 'em to the curb and build your D around a second-year guy who had 4 sacks and 0 starts last year.

[dogfish]

You'd think so, huh?

But sometimes stylegods get greedy: Then you have to kick 'em to the curb and build your D around a second-year guy who had 4 sacks and 0 starts last year.

and maybe elway will release talib, too!

lol. . . keep dreaming!

[Poet]

No one would want to release a top five CB who is a future HoFer for your team.

[Simple Jaded]

Ha! I like Kayvon Webster and Shaq Barrett too, they're good players.

Should just cut Miller and Talib, I mean who'd give anything for "Greedy" and "Thug"?

[BroncoBuckeye73]

i am with Jaded here I like the scrubs would start for most teams but on D we are not most teams

[BroncoBuckeye73]

And i am a firm believer that Mack over Von is a big insult if these rankings were anything that would have you believe only Watt is better per position and i would totally disagree

[Valar Morghulis]

And i am a firm believer that Mack over Von is a big insult if these rankings were anything that would have you believe only Watt is better per position and i would totally disagree

Take out von's post session, and I don't think it's all that outrageous, in fact I think both might be rated a little high.

That is not to say I think von is not a top 15 Paise or that Mack is better..... Just that he had a good season, not a great one.... Until the play offs, then he went nuclear lol

[Valar Morghulis]

i am with Jaded here I like the scrubs would start for most teams but on D we are not most teams

I am almost always with jaded.

Especially when he talks about Tebow or our defense

I don't share his hatred for the shotgun though!!

[TXBRONC]

His ranking above Miller probably has more to do with the fact that he had 15 sacks to Miller 11 sacks. Going into the home game against Oakland they had exactly the same number of sacks. Throw out that game for both players and they still end up tied in sacks.

At the end of the day they still play different positions with some different responsibilities so it tough comparison to make.

[BroncoWave]

The fact that Cam is #1 makes the Super Bowl even sweeter. "Best" player in the league getting punked by the measly 15th best player? Awesome!

[Simple Jaded]

I am almost always with jaded.

Especially when he talks about Tebow or our defense

I don't share his hatred for the shotgun though!!


I don't hate the Shitgun, I hate running out of the Shitgun, it's utterly pointless.

I actually did read a blog about it, so it's gotta be true.

[Joel]

I don't hate the Shitgun, I hate running out of the Shitgun, it's utterly pointless.

I actually did read a blog about it, so it's gotta be true.
I agree in principle, but the statistical record shows runs average more yards out of the shotgun, though that's not a smoking gun. It could be because shotgun's more common on long yardage 3rd downs, but gaining 7 yds when a team needs 9 in one play doesn't mean much. Or it could simply be that defenses facing shotgun are less inclined to expect (and thus defend) runs, so more vulnerable to them.

That's my suspicion: That shotgun runs only "work" as gimmicks or a 3rd and long draw (itself a gimmick.) If so, it'd show up far more in tape than in stats. Gimmick offenses fail because gimmicks depend on surprise, and nothing's "surprising" after you see it half a dozen times in a single game. That's what 3rd down draws and screens are all about, after all: They're not supposed to succeed in themselves, just make the D respect them so they don't all out blitz on ALL long yardage.

Generally speaking, plays do what they're designed for better than things they're NOT designed for. A jumbo set Hail Mary is not IMPOSSIBLE, but IS very low percentage. Same applies to shotgun runs: Removing blockers and putting the handoff 7 yds deep isn't a recipe for running success.

[Simple Jaded]

Stats are for blogs, they tell you David Garrard is a better QB than Ben Reothlisweiner.

[TXBRONC]

I don't hate the Shitgun, I hate running out of the Shitgun, it's utterly pointless.

I actually did read a blog about it, so it's gotta be true.

And where did you hear that everything you read on the internet is true?

[Simple Jaded]

And where did you hear that everything you read on the internet is true?

Not the Internet, just blogs.

[Cugel]

Mack had one 5 sack game against OZ in which Denver made no adjustments and OZ didnt know how to throw the ball away. Take that away.......ho hum.

You have to wonder if OZ is going to have games like that for Houston this year? This is still effectively his rookie year as a starter after all and he's going to struggle some. Normally you don't pay a guy with 7 total NFL starts $18M a year on a $72 M contract.

[Cugel]

Quote Originally Posted by TXBRONC View Post
And where did you hear that everything you read on the internet is true?


WHAT??? Do you mean it's not? OMG! :eek:

Of course some areas of the internet are worse than others. Reddit has about a 1 billion to 1 noise to signal ratio.

[TXBRONC]

WHAT??? Do you mean it's not? OMG! :eek:

Of course some areas of the internet are worse than others. Reddit has about a 1 billion to 1 noise to signal ratio.

I'm reasonably sure.

[Cugel]

His ranking above Miller probably has more to do with the fact that he had 15 sacks to Miller 11 sacks. Going into the home game against Oakland they had exactly the same number of sacks. Throw out that game for both players and they still end up tied in sacks.

At the end of the day they still play different positions with some different responsibilities so it tough comparison to make.

Alfred Williams explained the difference once: JJ Watt is always going to have huge numbers because he lines up wherever he wants to - and rushes whenever he wants to - not according to the defensive scheme. In short, he says to a team mate "I'm going over on the left, cover for me." And some other guy has to take over his responsibility.

Big Al did that sometimes on the Broncos defense, but Watt does it all the time. He free-lances. That's fine. He gets his sacks, but he also gets sacks that some of his team mates should get. Von Miller plays more within the scheme of the defense, which means sometimes offensive players are funnelled to DeMarcus Ware's side and someone else gets the sack.

On the Texans, Watt roves all over the place. It means their defense is more of a one man crew than the Broncos. And it means Watt should always have bigger numbers than Miller. But, the Broncos defense is better than the Texans'.

[TXBRONC]

Alfred Williams explained the difference once: JJ Watt is always going to have huge numbers because he lines up wherever he wants to - and rushes whenever he wants to - not according to the defensive scheme. In short, he says to a team mate "I'm going over on the left, cover for me." And some other guy has to take over his responsibility.

Big Al did that sometimes on the Broncos defense, but Watt does it all the time. He free-lances. That's fine. He gets his sacks, but he also gets sacks that some of his team mates should get. Von Miller plays more within the scheme of the defense, which means sometimes offensive players are funnelled to DeMarcus Ware's side and someone else gets the sack.

On the Texans, Watt roves all over the place. It means their defense is more of a one man crew than the Broncos. And it means Watt should always have bigger numbers than Miller. But, the Broncos defense is better than the Texans'.

I know just using Alfred as example but I don't recall he lining up all over the place. Karl Mecklenberg on the other hand lined up everywhere. Also, take out the home game against the Raiders and they still had the same number of sacks by season's end.

All three play within the schemes that they are in and all of them have different responsibilities. Mack always plays at the los even so going into the home game against the Raiders Mack and Miller were tied in sack nine a piece. That's the reason he ended up with more than Miller.

[Simple Jaded]

Big Al doesn't know his ass from his elbows.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Big Al doesn't know his ass from his elbows.

They smell the same to him.

[TXBRONC]

Big Al doesn't know his ass from his elbows.

He doesn't even know shit from shinola.

[Nomad]

No disrespect, but who cares? Von has proven himself and his self worth, without him, BRONCOS may not be SB champions.

[Simple Jaded]

Don't know jack shit.

[TXBRONC]

Don't know jack shit.

:nod: