Fandom is Broken

[MasterShake]

I frequent a TON of movie sites and have noticed the comments section is full of self-entitled vitriol and crap more and more lately. You don't like a movie? Fine. Voice your opinion and vote with your wallet. But now movies like the new all-female Ghostbusters see the cast and crew receiving Twitter death threats because the movie is somehow ruining their life. This is true across all entertainment comment sections from video games to movies to sports. I could never quite put my finger on it, but a writer whom I generally don't like wrote a great piece on the entitlement of fandom that I thought some of you might like. Being a fan used to be something that brought people with like interests together, but now many are acting like the Annie Wilkes character from Misery. Seems many would rather beat what they love into their ideal form then to just let the creators create:


All of this factors into the strange mindset of how we interact online. We have immediate access to spew any kind of hate at almost anyone instantly, and we probably also have a sense that nobody's actually listening. Or at least I hope that's the case - when director James Gunn defended the Captain America twist someone on his Facebook page left a comment wishing for Gunn's pet to be fed into a wood chipper. You have to hope that the guy thinks he's just muttering under his breath, that Gunn wouldn't actually see it, because the other version of that makes you despair for humanity.

This immediate access to the people who create the stuff we love was supposed to be the greatest thing that ever happened to fandom. If you talk to old TV writers or scifi novelists they'll tell you that they were often creating work in a void, not sure what people thought of what they were doing. It took a lot of effort to send a letter, so the only people who did that were the truly committed, but the general populace was largely silent. You just knew if they were watching or buying. But social media bridged the gap, and creators are no longer working in a void. Instead they're working in some kind of a chamber of screams, where people can and do voice their immediate and often personal displeasure directly and horribly.

http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2016/05/30/fandom-is-broken

[Davii]

I frequent a TON of movie sites and have noticed the comments section is full of self-entitled vitriol and crap more and more lately. You don't like a movie? Fine. Voice your opinion and vote with your wallet. But now movies like the new all-female Ghostbusters see the cast and crew receiving Twitter death threats because the movie is somehow ruining their life. This is true across all entertainment comment sections from video games to movies to sports. I could never quite put my finger on it, but a writer whom I generally don't like wrote a great piece on the entitlement of fandom that I thought some of you might like. Being a fan used to be something that brought people with like interests together, but now many are acting like the Annie Wilkes character from Misery. Seems many would rather beat what they love into their ideal form then to just let the creators create:



http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2016/05/30/fandom-is-broken

It's social media, it's saying whatever you want without consequence. It has nothing to do with "Fandom". You see the same things in comment sections on news stories, kr anywhere that has a comment section really. You really want to get mad? Go read comment sections on news stories about service members getting killed in combat.

[BroncoWave]

The current internet outrage over the zoo killing the gorilla who was dragging a 3 year old kid through the water is also ridiculous. I've just had to shake my head over the Internet comments on that.

[MasterShake]

It's social media, it's saying whatever you want without consequence. It has nothing to do with "Fandom". You see the same things in comment sections on news stories, kr anywhere that has a comment section really. You really want to get mad? Go read comment sections on news stories about service members getting killed in combat.

Oh I know, there is no bigger cesspool than the comments section at CNN or other news sites. This article deals specifically with entertainment backlash. People put far too much of their self worth in the things they love as a replacement for something they are missing in their lives. I mean, people STILL bitch about the Star Wars prequels every chance they get like they are owed something.

Hiding behind social media to say awful things is a much broader topic, but I agree with what you say.

[Slick]

People need to get over themselves.

[Davii]

Oh I know, there is no bigger cesspool than the comments section at CNN or other news sites. This article deals specifically with entertainment backlash. People put far too much of their self worth in the things they love as a replacement for something they are missing in their lives. I mean, people STILL bitch about the Star Wars prequels every chance they get like they are owed something.

Hiding behind social media to say awful things is a much broader topic, but I agree with what you say.

I'm with you, I just think it's all the same

[BroncoJoe]

Kind of along the same lines, but my FB page is flooded by those that think it was a criminal act to kill Harambe as opposed to just letting the kid die or "see what happens".

We're living in very interesting times.

[BroncoWave]

Kind of along the same lines, but my FB page is flooded by those that think it was a criminal act to kill Harambe as opposed to just letting the kid die or "see what happens".

We're living in very interesting times.

Read like 4 comments above this one. :)

[BroncoJoe]

The current internet outrage over the zoo killing the gorilla who was dragging a 3 year old kid through the water is also ridiculous. I've just had to shake my head over the Internet comments on that.

Beat me to it.

Here's the post that a lot of "friends" are referencing. It's beyond ridiculous.


https://www.facebook.com/captpaulwatson/posts/10154029456810932:0

[Valar Morghulis]

Beat me to it. Here's the post that a lot of "friends" are referencing. It's beyond ridiculous. https://www.facebook.com/captpaulwatson/posts/10154029456810932:0

What part of this do you disagree with?

Parental negligence
Zoo accountability
Hotels in wild not harming non threatening humans
The drag caused by the onlookers screaming


Don't get me wrong, if I thought the child was at risk, I would have shot the gorilla as well...i just don't see what he says in the post that is beyond ridiculous

[BroncoJoe]

What part of this do you disagree with?

Parental negligence
Zoo accountability
Hotels in wild not harming non threatening humans
The drag caused by the onlookers screaming


Don't get me wrong, if I thought the child was at risk, I would have shot the gorilla as well...i just don't see what he says in the post that is beyond ridiculous


Just a dumb comment:


I swear it is incidents like these that make me see how utterly pathetic and clueless human beings can be.

The killing of Harambe was cold-blooded, unprovoked and senseless murder and the fingers of those who pulled the trigger belong to a special kind of stupid.


Is this guy an expert? What about that lady who was killed not too long ago after being with the gorilla's for an extended amount of time?


No it was not. The kid was not going to be killed by this gorilla. In fact there is no case of a gorilla in captivity ever killing a child and these gorillas are actually approachable in the wild.

But Jack Hanna gets paid to spew such nonsense because if he actually knew anything about gorillas he would have understood what Harambe was trying to do.

Another stupid statement that simply can't be proven:


What brings tears to my eyes, what makes me sick inside is the knowledge that this noble creature was trying to help, that he knew the child was in trouble and his compassion was contemptuously dismissed with bullets.

It's an animal. We can debate whether or not zoos are beneficial or not, but if a human being is in danger, I choose the human 100% of the time.

Sorry.

[chazoe60]

Screw you guys you all suck!!!!!!!!! I hope a hurricane takes all of you away!!!!!!!!!!

[Slick]

Beat me to it.

Here's the post that a lot of "friends" are referencing. It's beyond ridiculous.


https://www.facebook.com/captpaulwatson/posts/10154029456810932:0

I love this part of that guy's post.

"Harambe died because we enslave gorillas and other animals for our entertainment."

[OrangeHoof]

I gave up on Hollywood movies a long time ago as being boring and formulaic. There are advances in graphics so if you like to see things blow up better or dazzle you with special effects, good for you but most movies today are as deep as an Adam Sandler flick.

I enjoy historical movies if they are reasonably accurate and well-presented, more like "33" and less like "Pearl Harbor" but I would never use social media to ridicule a product.

[Slick]

To your point Shake, you see it in music videos on YouTube too. People lose their minds in the comments section complaining about a song they don't like. I don't get it.

Like, you hate that song so much that you're here complaining about it like a spoiled child, probably with the song playing in the background, because you had to click it to comp!ain about it.

[Northman]

What part of this do you disagree with?

Parental negligence
Zoo accountability
Hotels in wild not harming non threatening humans
The drag caused by the onlookers screaming


Don't get me wrong, if I thought the child was at risk, I would have shot the gorilla as well...i just don't see what he says in the post that is beyond ridiculous

Im with you actually. While i did not go all whacky over the killing of the Gorilla i do think the criticism and rage is justified because in the end the Gorilla is simply an animal. The fact that the parents were so neglectful of their child and the fact that the zoo didnt even consider using a tranquilizer on a endangered species is baffling and irresponsible in my opinion. In the end whats done is done but i absolutely detest shitty parenting in which a wild animal was put down because the supposed more intelligent being on the planet lost track of their kid in the first place.

[OrangeHoof]

As for the gorilla, I would have tried to distract him with the dinner bell, whip up some quick vittles and see if he might leave the boy for food and then grab the kid when he goes inside to eat. If it works, you've saved both lives. If it doesn't, then you're back to shooting the gorilla.

[BroncoWave]

Im with you actually. While i did not go all whacky over the killing of the Gorilla i do think the criticism and rage is justified because in the end the Gorilla is simply an animal. The fact that the parents were so neglectful of their child and the fact that the zoo didnt even consider using a tranquilizer on a endangered species is baffling and irresponsible in my opinion. In the end whats done is done but i absolutely detest shitty parenting in which a wild animal was put down because the supposed more intelligent being on the planet lost track of their kid in the first place.

A tranquilizer is not immediate. The act of being tranquilized could have startled the gorilla. You just can't take that kind of chance with a kid in there.

[BroncoJoe]

Im with you actually. While i did not go all whacky over the killing of the Gorilla i do think the criticism and rage is justified because in the end the Gorilla is simply an animal. The fact that the parents were so neglectful of their child and the fact that the zoo didnt even consider using a tranquilizer on a endangered species is baffling and irresponsible in my opinion. In the end whats done is done but i absolutely detest shitty parenting in which a wild animal was put down because the supposed more intelligent being on the planet lost track of their kid in the first place.

That's great in theory, but there isn't a parent on earth that hasn't momentarily "lost track" of their child. Emphasis on MOMENTARILY, and shit happens fast.

Anyone that says otherwise is lying.

They discussed the option of shooting a tranquilizer, and it was ruled out. It's not immediate (takes several minutes) and would most likely have agitated the gorilla.

[BroncoJoe]

A tranquilizer is not immediate. The act of being tranquilized could have startled the gorilla. You just can't take that kind of chance with a kid in there.

Damn you, Wave. You keep posting before I can.

[Northman]

That's great in theory, but there isn't a parent on earth that hasn't momentarily "lost track" of their child. Emphasis on MOMENTARILY, and shit happens fast.



And there are consequences. Maybe i just dont feel sorry for those kinds of people i guess. You just cant be that dumb and neglectful in a place like a zoo. Even taking the Gorilla out of the equation the kid could of been kidnapped by a pedo or something. Just totally irresponsible in my opinion and unfortunately cost the life of a animal that wouldnt know any better.

[Valar Morghulis]

I love this part of that guy's post. "Harambe died because we enslave gorillas and other animals for our entertainment."

True statement IMO

[Valar Morghulis]

We can debate whether or not zoos are beneficial or not, but if a human being is in danger, I choose the human 100% of the time. Sorry.

No need to apologize, I already stated in my post I agree with this sentiment, I just could not work out why his post annoyed you so much, then you clarified

[BroncoJoe]

And there are consequences. Maybe i just dont feel sorry for those kinds of people i guess. You just cant be that dumb and neglectful in a place like a zoo. Even taking the Gorilla out of the equation the kid could of been kidnapped by a pedo or something. Just totally irresponsible in my opinion and unfortunately cost the life of a animal that wouldnt know any better.

Like I said, you're presenting a "perfect world" scenario. It's not possible.

Were the parents negligent? Probably. I'm just pointing out that even the best parents sometimes make mistakes and it's impossible to keep an eye on your children 100% of the time. Sad, but true.

Sorry if this sounds brash, but I just don't care about the animal that was killed. I'd be happier if he wasn't, but it's just not that big of a deal for me.

[Northman]

Like I said, you're presenting a "perfect world" scenario. It's not possible.

Were the parents negligent? Probably. I'm just pointing out that even the best parents sometimes make mistakes and it's impossible to keep an eye on your children 100% of the time. Sad, but true.

Sorry if this sounds brash, but I just don't care about the animal that was killed. I'd be happier if he wasn't, but it's just not that big of a deal for me.

Its ok, i know how you feel. Im kind of the opposite in that had the kid died i would still be pointing to the parents for their irresponsibility. Had their kid died it would of been a tragic lesson but fortunately for them most people dont care about animals that dont really know right from wrong. I just think making excuses for humans is a massive cop out in cases like this but it is what it is.

[BroncoJoe]

Its ok, i know how you feel. Im kind of the opposite in that had the kid died i would still be pointing to the parents for their irresponsibility. Had their kid died it would of been a tragic lesson but fortunately for them most people dont care about animals that dont really know right from wrong. I just think making excuses for humans is a massive cop out in cases like this but it is what it is.

Had the gorilla killed the kid, the gorilla would have been killed anyway.

[BroncoJoe]

I love this part of that guy's post.

"Harambe died because we enslave gorillas and other animals for our entertainment."

They're animals. And probably lead better lives in a zoo than in the wild.

[Northman]

Had the gorilla killed the kid, the gorilla would have been killed anyway.

I know. In the end the kid should of never been left unattended to even get to that point.

[MasterShake]

To your point Shake, you see it in music videos on YouTube too. People lose their minds in the comments section complaining about a song they don't like. I don't get it.

Like, you hate that song so much that you're here complaining about it like a spoiled child, probably with the song playing in the background, because you had to click it to comp!ain about it.

Oh I know. There are some Facebook pages of movies that I "Like" just so I can see trailers and stuff when they come out. In every one of those comment thread someone specifically goes in there just to make a point about how they are not going to see the movie because it will suck. Why waste your time?

The article was partially spurred by a YouTuber (you can see the entitled little ***** below) who focuses on games who decided to post about why he won't even see the new Ghostbusters movie and the A.V. Club did a nice write up on it:

hz8X2A7wHyQ

From the A.V. Club Article:


Of course, the things fans are actually entitled to are their own opinions and feelings, even petty or deeply stupid ones. But it’s more than a little depressing when passionate fandom and fan glorification allows anyone to become convinced that resistance to a Ghostbusters remake is a principled stand rather than sexist whining. James Rolfe issued his anti-Ghostbusters manifesto while sitting in a room full of Blu-rays and various nerd memorabilia. The intention, conscious or not, is for his nerd bona fides to radiate off the screen. (Again, this is something I understand to a perhaps troubling degree; if I were photographed in my living room, it would be difficult to find an angle that didn’t show off some combination of records, movies, action figures, Legos, and a warrior bug from Starship Troopers.) I’m sure that for Rolfe, this functions as de facto proof that he’s not being sexist; he’s just being a fan.

http://www.avclub.com/article/ghostbusters-frozen-and-strange-entitlement-fan-cu-237139

[Northman]

I think the new Ghostbusters looks terrible but im far to lazy to spend huge amounts of time on some forum telling everyone that. lol

[MOtorboat]

Facebook sucks.

It's Ghostbusters, turn your damn brain off and enjoy it.

I'd argue that people have always been this crazy, it's just now we can see it.

[Valar Morghulis]

I know. In the end the kid should of never been left unattended to even get to that point.

Lol!!

[Valar Morghulis]

They're animals. And probably lead better lives in a zoo than in the wild.

Hahaha, nice troll Joe! Lmao

[Buff]

Facebook sucks.

It's Ghostbusters, turn your damn brain off and enjoy it.

I'd argue that people have always been this crazy, it's just now we can see it.

This is definitely the case. Every idiot in the world now has a megaphone. I don't think it's unique to any subset of society.

[BroncoJoe]

This is definitely the case. Every idiot in the world now has a megaphone. I don't think it's unique to any subset of society.

I've recently removed so many people from FB - not unfriended them, but removed them from my feed.

It's becoming a literal waste of time. I only have family and a few select friends that I allow in my feed.

[BroncoWave]

Its ok, i know how you feel. Im kind of the opposite in that had the kid died i would still be pointing to the parents for their irresponsibility. Had their kid died it would of been a tragic lesson but fortunately for them most people dont care about animals that dont really know right from wrong. I just think making excuses for humans is a massive cop out in cases like this but it is what it is.

Whether or not the parents were negligent has nothing to do with whether or not killing the gorilla was the right decision. Just looking at that aspect of it, the zoo absolutely did what they had to.

[BroncoWave]

Im with you actually. While i did not go all whacky over the killing of the Gorilla i do think the criticism and rage is justified because in the end the Gorilla is simply an animal. The fact that the parents were so neglectful of their child and the fact that the zoo didnt even consider using a tranquilizer on a endangered species is baffling and irresponsible in my opinion. In the end whats done is done but i absolutely detest shitty parenting in which a wild animal was put down because the supposed more intelligent being on the planet lost track of their kid in the first place.

To add to this, it's also irrelevant to me in this case that the gorilla was endangered. I don't care if that was the last gorilla left on earth, you still have to protect the human first.

[Northman]

To add to this, it's also irrelevant to me in this case that the gorilla was endangered. I don't care if that was the last gorilla left on earth, you still have to protect the human first.

Meh.

[Slick]

To add to this, it's also irrelevant to me in this case that the gorilla was endangered. I don't care if that was the last gorilla left on earth, you still have to protect the human first.

This is such a horrible post. Good grief.

[BroncoJoe]

This is such a horrible post. Good grief.

Why?

[BroncoWave]

This is such a horrible post. Good grief.

So you're of the opinion that the life of the endangered animal should have been put ahead of the child? That's the only conclusion I can come to given that you think my post was horrible.

[Slick]

So you're of the opinion that the life of the endangered animal should have been put ahead of the child? That's the only conclusion I can come to given that you think my post was horrible.

Yes.

[BroncoWave]

Yes.

Wow. That might be one of the most appalling things I have ever read, then. There is no way in a million years you would be saying this if it were your 3 year old kid in there with the gorilla.

[tomjonesrocks]

I can't get to that point but it's hard not to despise that Mom. Very hard. "Mommy's right here!" I hope her life is destroyed.

Seems they could have at least attempted to bait the Gorilla away with food or something - which has been done successfully in other similar situations - but I will trust the zoo to know that animal and the circumstances.

[Davii]

I can't get to that point but it's hard not to despise that Mom. Very hard. "Mommy's right here!" I hope her life is destroyed.

Seems they could have at least attempted to bait the Gorilla away with food or something - which has been done successfully in other similar situations - but I will trust the zoo to know that animal and the circumstances.

The Mom should face fines, at least the amount she cost the zoo at a minimum

[tomjonesrocks]

The Mom should face fines, at least the amount she cost the zoo at a minimum

She should lose her child.

[BroncoWave]

That's pretty harsh, tjr. There isn't a parent who has ever lived who hasn't let their kid out of their sight at one point or another in their lives. It happens. It's tragic that it went down like that, but it could have happened to anyone. Short of keeping your kids on a leash all the time, they can slip away from time to time.

[tomjonesrocks]

That's pretty harsh, tjr. There isn't a parent who has ever lived who hasn't let their kid out of their sight at one point or another in their lives. It happens. It's tragic that it went down like that, but it could have happened to anyone. Short of keeping your kids on a leash all the time, they can slip away from time to time.

You'll get there down the road, but a 4-year old in a public place like this is -never- out of your sight. This isn't in the neighborhood, or even a Target toy aisle. A zoo is tantamount to an amusement park. She's too stupid to live IMO.

[BroncoWave]

She's too stupid to live IMO.

Really easy to say from behind your computer when you weren't there. None of us were there to see how it went down. It's entirely possible she was grossly negligent, but I'm not going to say she should lose her kid and her life should be ruined because of one mistake.

[Slick]

Wow. That might be one of the most appalling things I have ever read, then. There is no way in a million years you would be saying this if it were your 3 year old kid in there with the gorilla.

That's fine. We've appalled each other in this case. I didn't really want to continue to derail Shake's thread any further but here we are. Anyway, there's no way in a million years I would ever take my daughter to a zoo in the first place. She'll either watch Discovery channel hi def shows of animals in their natural habitats or I'll take her on safari (if there's any animals left in Africa by the time she's old enough.). She isn't going to Sea World either.

Cases like this one make me feel like human beings are a plague on this planet. There's no respect for nature and the animals that live in it.

I hadn't heard of the gorilla story until you guys posted it but this happened a few days ago as well...


http://fox6now.com/2016/05/22/zoo-officials-killed-two-lions-to-save-suicidal-man-who-jumped-into-big-cats-enclosure/

[BroncoWave]

That's fine. We've appalled each other in this case. I didn't really want to continue to derail Shake's thread any further but here we are. Anyway, there's no way in a million years I would ever take my daughter to a zoo in the first place. She'll either watch Discovery channel hi def shows of animals in their natural habitats or I'll take her on safari (if there's any animals left in Africa by the time she's old enough.). She isn't going to Sea World either.

Cases like this one make me feel like human beings are a plague on this planet. There's no respect for nature and the animals that live in it.

I hadn't heard of the gorilla story until you guys posted it but this happened a few days ago as well...


http://fox6now.com/2016/05/22/zoo-officials-killed-two-lions-to-save-suicidal-man-who-jumped-into-big-cats-enclosure/

It was a damn 3 year old. A 3 year old isn't going to understand why it's wrong to jump into a gorilla cage.

Now yes the adult in the other story knew better and probably deserved to die, but to say kid that didn't know any better should have died instead of the animal really just blows my mind. I can't even wrap my brain around that kind of thought process.

[Slick]

It was a damn 3 year old. A 3 year old isn't going to understand why it's wrong to jump into a gorilla cage.

Now yes the adult in the other story knew better and probably deserved to die, but to say kid that didn't know any better should have died instead of the animal really just blows my mind. I can't even wrap my brain around that kind of thought process.

I'm not blaming the 3 year old. I'm blaming the human race in general.

[BroncoWave]

I'm not blaming the 3 year old. I'm blaming the human race in general.

Look, I'm not disagreeing that humans treat animals like shit. It's appalling some of the things humans do to animals, you won't get any argument from me there. I am all about saving endangered species and support every effort to do so.

But in this one isolated case, I feel like you have to protect the kid over the animal. It sucks that they couldn't save the gorilla too, but they did what they had to do.

[Slick]

Look, I'm not disagreeing that humans treat animals like shit. It's appalling some of the things humans do to animals, you won't get any argument from me there. I am all about saving endangered species and support every effort to do so.

But in this one isolated case, I feel like you have to protect the kid over the animal. It sucks that they couldn't save the gorilla too, but they did what they had to do.

Fair enough.

[tomjonesrocks]

That's fine. We've appalled each other in this case. I didn't really want to continue to derail Shake's thread any further but here we are. Anyway, there's no way in a million years I would ever take my daughter to a zoo in the first place. She'll either watch Discovery channel hi def shows of animals in their natural habitats or I'll take her on safari (if there's any animals left in Africa by the time she's old enough.). She isn't going to Sea World either. Cases like this one make me feel like human beings are a plague on this planet. There's no respect for nature and the animals that live in it. I hadn't heard of the gorilla story until you guys posted it but this happened a few days ago as well... http://fox6now.com/2016/05/22/zoo-officials-killed-two-lions-to-save-suicidal-man-who-jumped-into-big-cats-enclosure/

Interesting position - and perhaps accurate. Living near a destination zoo (San Diego) I have taken my daughter a few times - and I don't disagree I should not have without some thought. We also have the Wild Animal Park here run by the same zoo which I have more affinity for - a massive plot of land and some talk of conservation - my daughter loves animals and has had many nice times there.

I'm conflicted.

[BroncoWave]

I feel like good zoos do way more good for animals than harm. How would giant pandas be doing right now without help from zoos and wildlife reserves? They'd probably be gone. Zoos do a ton for the conservation of endangered species. That's not to say there aren't sketchy zoos that don't treat animals well, but I've never understood people who are totally against them.

[Davii]

So, I know it's a horrific source, but I have a friend that works at the SD Zoo. She told me many of the animals there would be dead were they not in the zoo. Many were rescued after injury, nursed back to health, then put in the zoo.

I understand the hatred of zoos, but if the animals are acquired by means such as that I can't hold that against the zoo. They do need to do a much better job of habitat recreation, size, etc. The Wild animal park TJR speaks of id pretty awesome IMO.

[Valar Morghulis]

She should lose her child.

We have families on child protection plans for leaving their baby on the house while they go 50 yards to a bus stop to pick up their other kid from school.

Neglect is neglect. And it tends to be a pattern.

I would not call for her losing her child yet....... But a social worker should be investigating the family right now. And I agree with davii on the fines.

People make mistakes, I get it, I made loads and am sure I will continue to make more. Sometimes there is no consequences and we get away with them.... Either we learn from them, our we don't.... But sometimes there are consequences and it is unfortunate that those people do get caught, but once a matter is known to the authorities they need to look into it. Sometimes that's a shame (for some this case would appear to qualify) others it's not (like drink driving for the first time). All I'm saying is the parental neglect needs investigated.

Also slick, loving your work in this thread. I would high five everything but I could not be bothered.

[Timmy!]

We gave everybody a voice, and a keyboard to hide behind. Shockingly, the world is full of loudmouth jackoffs who demand we hear their voice, or they love hearing their own. Either way we really didn't think this through.

[Timmy!]

Also, mods please rename this thread to "That gorilla thread that sorta proved shakes point even though it was completely highjacked." TIA.

[Northman]

That's fine. We've appalled each other in this case. I didn't really want to continue to derail Shake's thread any further but here we are. Anyway, there's no way in a million years I would ever take my daughter to a zoo in the first place. She'll either watch Discovery channel hi def shows of animals in their natural habitats or I'll take her on safari (if there's any animals left in Africa by the time she's old enough.). She isn't going to Sea World either.

Cases like this one make me feel like human beings are a plague on this planet. There's no respect for nature and the animals that live in it.

I hadn't heard of the gorilla story until you guys posted it but this happened a few days ago as well...


http://fox6now.com/2016/05/22/zoo-officials-killed-two-lions-to-save-suicidal-man-who-jumped-into-big-cats-enclosure/


Pretty much my feelings. Human beings cause more destruction on this earth than any other creature, the absolute arrogance that our lives matter more than theirs is saddening to me.

[Valar Morghulis]

9036

Lol

[EastCoastBronco]

It was a no win situation for the Zoo.
There was so much "down side" in that situation that they made the quick decision.

Downside:
They take the ignorant dog owner route (Oh, he never bites) and the gorilla rips the kid apart, they wind up having to kill the thing anyway and they are damned.
They tranc the thing, it freaks out before it passes out and kills the kid, they wind up having to kill the thing anyway and they are damned.
They kill the thing before anything bad can happen (losing a huge investment and attraction in the process) and they are damned.

Up Side:
The gorilla takes the kid to his cave and has a nice picnic with him and the Honey Badger he keeps as his pet and returns him safely to his idiot parents.

Everyone lives happily ever after.

[BroncoWave]

Pretty much my feelings. Human beings cause more destruction on this earth than any other creature, the absolute arrogance that our lives matter more than theirs is saddening to me.

It's not arrogant to protect one of your own against another species. This happens all throughout the animal kingdom, that's nothing unique to humans.

Now it is arrogant to destroy animal habitats to build things for ourselves? Maybe. Is it bad to kill an endangered species just so you can sell its tusks or it's fur? Absolutely. There are certainly things humans do that are very arrogant/needlessly destructive to animals.

But this is not one of those cases. You don't just let a 400 pound gorilla rip an innocent child apart. Now is that for sure what would have happened, who knows? But you just don't take that chance.

If that makes me "arrogant" so be it, but the human life has to take precedence in that situation. It's not even a question.

[BroncoJoe]

It's not like we as humans came from another planet or something and are conquering the earth. We have just as much right to be on this planet as anything else.

Some of the comments here are astounding.

[MasterShake]

Damn dudes, way to take my thread about how fans are ruining popular entertainment and turn it into a moral discussion on humanity and morality! :lol:

The Simpsons already settled this debate LONG ago:

JlmzUEQxOvA

[Davii]

All that being said, I watched Deadpool the other day and found it to be hilarious. I will not go write hatemail or death threats for the producer. This time.

[Northman]

We have just as much right to be on this planet as anything else.



Yea, but nobody is putting you in a cage for show and tell either. lol

[BroncoJoe]

Yea, but nobody is putting you in a cage for show and tell either. lol

Because I'm not an animal.

[Northman]

Because I'm not an animal.

That isnt what your wife says.

[BroncoJoe]

That isnt what your wife says.

HA! True.

[OrangeHoof]

If it was the last gorilla on earth, it wouldn't be in a zoo in Cincinnati. It would be in some DNA lab while they try to clone him.

[Valar Morghulis]

It's not like we as humans came from another planet or something and are conquering the earth. We have just as much right to be on this planet as anything else. Some of the comments here are astounding.

We have just as much right?

Or more right?

[BroncoJoe]

We have just as much right?

Or more right?

Just as much.

And don't talk about killing him. We don't know if he would have survived in the wild as long as he did in the Zoo(s) he's lived in. There are PLENTY of animals killed every day, either for food, or protection. By other animals.

[Valar Morghulis]

Just as much. And don't talk about killing him. We don't know if he would have survived in the wild as long as he did in the Zoo(s) he's lived in. There are PLENTY of animals killed every day, either for food, or protection. By other animals.

I don't understand (or believe you). This is not a rant about my world view is better than yours, I just don't see how you can say that but act in a way that says the opposite.

If we have the same right why shoot the gorilla

If we have the same right why participate in the death of 70 billion land mammals each year by eating them

Why take their skin for leather

Why deprive baby calf of their mothers milk so you can have it.

I am not telling you not to do those things. I just don't see how you can believe you have the same right to be on the earth yet do these things

[BroncoWave]

I don't understand (or believe you). This is not a rant about my world view is better than yours, I just don't see how you can say that but act in a way that says the opposite.

If we have the same right why shoot the gorilla

If we have the same right why participate in the death of 70 billion land mammals each year by eating them

Why take their skin for leather

Why deprive baby calf of their mothers milk so you can have it.

I am not telling you not to do those things. I just don't see how you can believe you have the same right to be on the earth yet do these things

Humans aren't the only creatures to kill other animals.

[Davii]

Saw a movie called "Forest" that the wife wanted to watch. Terrible. Death threats down range.

[Ravage!!!]

We ddon't know that the parent was negligent. Hell, if you have ever been to a zoo, and close to the bars of the barrier, you are basically looking right over the top of your child while they are right by your side...but you TOOK YOUR EYE OFF THEM!!!!!!!!!!!

But lets look at the enviroment. You KNOW you would never take your eyes or hands off your kid if you are crossing traffic, but was there a reason for the parent to believe that the child could get into the cage??? Why would she think for a moment that there was a way for her child to be in danger in that instance? Is she just to assume that the Zoo didn't provide proper barriers to keep everyone out? WHEN is the parent allowed to take their eyes off their child, for even a moment?? In home?? Because more accidents happen at home than any other location.

So the parent wasn't necessarily negligent simply because the child was able to slip through some bars. It's pretty pretentious of us to blame them purely because a horrible accident happened. Hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20. How nice it is that our mistakes aren't televised for the nation to judge.

As for the shooting, the zoo keeper didn't really have any other choice.....as pointed out above. Wait, and the kid could die...then you get blamed for not saving the child AND the gorilla has to be put down. Tranquilize (attempt)...and the kid dies and you get blamed, and the gorilla has to be put down. You don't have a lot of time to make a decision like this. The decision was made to do what was sure to save the child.

A horrible decision had to be made, but most likely there was going to be a horrible outcome either way.

[Ravage!!!]

Mastershake... man.. I'm with you. Social media has absolutely decimated social interaction. By broadening everyone's voice, and giving them anonymity, any douche' with fingers can say whatever they want without worry of having to follow any kind of social decorum. Insults and threats are today's norm for anyone within reach of a cell phone.

[BroncoWave]

We ddon't know that the parent was negligent. Hell, if you have ever been to a zoo, and close to the bars of the barrier, you are basically looking right over the top of your child while they are right by your side...but you TOOK YOUR EYE OFF THEM!!!!!!!!!!!

But lets look at the enviroment. You KNOW you would never take your eyes or hands off your kid if you are crossing traffic, but was there a reason for the parent to believe that the child could get into the cage??? Why would she think for a moment that there was a way for her child to be in danger in that instance? Is she just to assume that the Zoo didn't provide proper barriers to keep everyone out? WHEN is the parent allowed to take their eyes off their child, for even a moment?? In home?? Because more accidents happen at home than any other location.

So the parent wasn't necessarily negligent simply because the child was able to slip through some bars. It's pretty pretentious of us to blame them purely because a horrible accident happened. Hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20. How nice it is that our mistakes aren't televised for the nation to judge.

As for the shooting, the zoo keeper didn't really have any other choice.....as pointed out above. Wait, and the kid could die...then you get blamed for not saving the child AND the gorilla has to be put down. Tranquilize (attempt)...and the kid dies and you get blamed, and the gorilla has to be put down. You don't have a lot of time to make a decision like this. The decision was made to do what was sure to save the child.

A horrible decision had to be made, but most likely there was going to be a horrible outcome either way.

Wow rav, this might be the longest post you have ever made in which I have agreed with every single word of it. This all seems like common sense, it baffles me that there is anyone on the other side of this issue.

[Valar Morghulis]

Humans aren't the only creatures to kill other animals.

True, but I am questioning how you can choose to do so, when you believe you share an equal right to live on this planet.

[BroncoWave]

True, but I am questioning how you can choose to do so, when you believe you share an equal right to live on this planet.

Just because you share an equal right doesn't mean you don't have to make a tough decision when push comes to shove. Thinking that everything has an equal right to be here doesn't mean you don't protect your own when you have to.

[Poet]

True, but I am questioning how you can choose to do so, when you believe you share an equal right to live on this planet.

Humanity comes before all else as we the most intelligent. Acting in this way even stays within the 'natural laws' of nature. This is my belief.

[Valar Morghulis]

Humanity comes before all else as we the most intelligent. Acting in this way even stays within the 'natural laws' of nature. This is my belief.

I respect you right to your belief.

[Poet]

I respect you right to your belief.

Hold me.

[Valar Morghulis]

Just because you share an equal right doesn't mean you don't have to make a tough decision when push comes to shove. Thinking that everything has an equal right to be here doesn't mean you don't protect your own when you have to.

Right, I already said I would have shot the gorilla.
Tough decision made.

But Joe said the same rights as us, so why make the choice to exploit and murder animals when there is no life or death situation.

Von K said something I don't agree with, but he acts in a way that supports his belief, so i make no issue with it... I understand his position but we just don't agree. Joe's however, I don't understand

[Valar Morghulis]

Hold me.

Naked

[Timmy!]

I need 2 nites with our Dave in Montana....2 nights. He will be eating ******* veal the next day.

[Valar Morghulis]

I need 2 nites with our Dave in Montana....2 nights. He will be eating ******* veal the next day.

After you enjoyed a good tube steak I hope

[Timmy!]

After you enjoyed a good tube steak I hope

Have u seen dances with wolves dave?

[OrangeHoof]

Perhaps the child grows up to be a president or a doctor or the next Terrell Davis. Does shooting the gorilla seem a little smarter now? Would the gorilla find a cure for cancer or rebuild an inner city? Or maybe the kid grows up to be a drug-selling ghetto rat who has issues for the rest of his life because mommy wouldn't stop him from falling into a moat. Then maybe the gorilla was doing us all a favor by offing the punk before he grew up to be a thug with a record as long as his old man's. We don't know at this point so we gave the kiddo the benefit of the doubt and spared him by killing the ape.

[MOtorboat]

We are carnivorous animals. We raise other animals to eat. Those animals would not exist if we didn't raise them to eat. Life isn't fair.

[Northman]

Life isn't fair.

True. Had the Gorilla killed the kid i would be saying the same thing. Good point.

[Valar Morghulis]

We are carnivorous animals. We raise other animals to eat. Those animals would not exist if we didn't raise them to eat. Life isn't fair.

Sounds like you disagree with Joe then

[BroncoJoe]

It's not like we as humans came from another planet or something and are conquering the earth. We have just as much right to be on this planet as anything else.

Some of the comments here are astounding.


We have just as much right?

Or more right?


Just as much.

And don't talk about killing him. We don't know if he would have survived in the wild as long as he did in the Zoo(s) he's lived in. There are PLENTY of animals killed every day, either for food, or protection. By other animals.


Right, I already said I would have shot the gorilla.
Tough decision made.

But Joe said the same rights as us, so why make the choice to exploit and murder animals when there is no life or death situation.

Von K said something I don't agree with, but he acts in a way that supports his belief, so i make no issue with it... I understand his position but we just don't agree. Joe's however, I don't understand

Dave, this was our exchange. Of course everything has a "right" to be on the planet. That doesn't mean that certain life can't be used by other life to sustain itself. There is a pecking order. If you phrased the question differently, I'd give a different answer.

Do you shower? What about the innocent bacteria you're killing? Do you vacuum your rugs at your house, clean the toilet, wash your clothes? I mean, you're killing innocent living things by doing so. What about the pesky fly that you swat? It was just minding it's own business until you swatted it.

[Valar Morghulis]

Dave, this was our exchange. Of course everything has a "right" to be on the planet.

So everything has a right to be born but after that, what happens to them is fair game?

I know it must seem like I am being arsey, but I hope you know me well enough to know I am not purposely trolling you. I just don't see how you think animals have equal rights, yet you support their large scale murder.

A for your bacteria analogy, I accept that my life will cause suffering, I just try to minimise it as much as possible.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

This reminds of something that happened last week.

The fire extinguisher company sent someone to service all of our extinguishers. I tell him he's parked illegally out front and should probably move. His response was epic, "my give a damn meter about the cops is broken. "
:laugh:

[Northman]

https://scontent.fphl2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p320x320/13344652_1425504804141996_45590009655506053_n.jpg? oh=58cc6b0a631279292e0846208be83637&oe=57D4681C

[Northman]

https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p480x480/13332862_535294636595890_8152425105274524523_n.png ?oh=0885ca5aaec71af642d10b8b5d2f241f&oe=57D567A7