Let's imagine the alternate universe where Peyton Manning picked the Titans over the Broncos

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Peyton Manning finished his career as a Super Bowl champion, ending a four-year stint with the Denver Broncos with record-breaking numbers and a Lombardi Trophy. But he almost passed on joining the Broncos in 2012 to sign with the Tennessee Titans instead.

"I was pretty close," Manning told The Tennessean of choosing the Titans.

At the time, the Broncos and Arizona Cardinals were considered the likeliest landing spots for Manning, with other teams like the Seattle Seahawks, San Francisco 49ers and Miami Dolphins trying to throw their names into the hat. Then Titans owner Bud Adams battled his way into contention for Manning.

"He is the man I want. Period," Adams told The Tennessean in 2012. "And the people that work for me understand that. They know who I want. I want Mr. Manning with the Titans and I will be disappointed if it doesn't happen."

rest - http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2016/5/31/11807818/peyton-manning-tennessee-titans-denver-broncos-free-agent

[Northman]

Sorry Mr. Adams. You lose.

[BroncoJoe]

I wasn't a big fan when we signed him, as many of you probably remember.

I am so grateful and thankful he brought his talent here. He truly was the type of player that could nearly single-handedly turn a franchise around. The Titans have enough talent they just might have done what the Broncos did with Manning at the helm.

[Magnificent Seven]

I wasn't a big fan when we signed him, as many of you probably remember.

I am so grateful and thankful he brought his talent here. He truly was the type of player that could nearly single-handedly turn a franchise around. The Titans have enough talent they just might have done what the Broncos did with Manning at the helm.

I was on the same boat.

[Magnificent Seven]

Sorry Mr. Adams. You lose.

Ha.

[Joel]

Sorry Mr. Adams. You lose.
It was kind of his thing, except for the inaugural AFL Championship (and sequel,) the only legit pro titles Houston had in ANY sport until the Rockets Double Clutch seasons. The idea of Dud Adams "pulling the trigger" that makes his contending team a champion is laughable given his legacy of trying, hamstringing them instead, then blowing up great teams to start his micromanaging all over again. At least Al Davis got a trio of SBs out of it:

Bud got NOTHING out of Bum Phillips, Earl Campbell, Warren Moon, Bruce Matthews, Mike Munchak and Steve McNair (and those are just the ones even non-Oilers fans remember.) Had Manning done the same things for the Titans that he did for us, the whole roster would've been cut last offseason and back to square one.

[7DnBrnc53]

That Titan D wasn't too much to write home about. I don't think that Manning would have won jack crap in Tennessee. That would have been a huge mistake.

As for the Broncos, no Manning =/ Tebow. Elway didn't want anything to do with him, which is ashame.

I watched the 2011 Patriot playoff game on You Tube again (just the first half), and Tebow really didn't play that bad. There were a couple drops, and Orlando Franklin and Chris Clark (when they would go 6 OL) were making Rob Ninkovich look like Bruce Smith. He had a strip sack (and the Pats recovered), and he also hit Tebow on another play just as he was trying to hit a wide open McGahee in the flat.

Elway probably drafts Brandon Weeden in Round 1. Denver wins a bad AFC West (because they had talent), but in 2013, they regress as Weeden regresses. As a result, either Teddy Bridgewater or Derek Carr is the Bronco QB today, not Sanchez or Lynch.

Also, what's funny is that they may have a SB title today anyway if they still would have hired Kubes and Wade. Maybe they hire them a year earlier.

[sneakers]

Written by Harry Turtledove

[MOtorboat]

That Titan D wasn't too much to write home about. I don't think that Manning would have won jack crap in Tennessee. That would have been a huge mistake.

As for the Broncos, no Manning =/ Tebow. Elway didn't want anything to do with him, which is ashame.

I watched the 2011 Patriot playoff game on You Tube again (just the first half), and Tebow really didn't play that bad. There were a couple drops, and Orlando Franklin and Chris Clark (when they would go 6 OL) were making Rob Ninkovich look like Bruce Smith. He had a strip sack (and the Pats recovered), and he also hit Tebow on another play just as he was trying to hit a wide open McGahee in the flat.

Elway probably drafts Brandon Weeden in Round 1. Denver wins a bad AFC West (because they had talent), but in 2013, they regress as Weeden regresses. As a result, either Teddy Bridgewater or Derek Carr is the Bronco QB today, not Sanchez or Lynch.

Also, what's funny is that they may have a SB title today anyway if they still would have hired Kubes and Wade. Maybe they hire them a year earlier.

Tebow was ******* terrible. Elway was moving on, Manning or no.

[7DnBrnc53]

Tebow was ******* terrible. Elway was moving on, Manning or no.

I know that. That is why I said that they would have drafted Weeden, and he would have been the starter.

Also, while I am not a Skip Bayless-esque Tebow fan boy, consider this: He really had no OTA's or minicamps to get ready because of the lockout, and then he was demoted to fourth string. Then, when he played, they seemed to run the ball a little too much (I know that he wasn't a great passer, but the running and option was still a little overkill).

[MOtorboat]

I know that. That is why I said that they would have drafted Weeden, and he would have been the starter.

Also, while I am not a Skip Bayless-esque Tebow fan boy, consider this: He really had no OTA's or minicamps to get ready because of the lockout, and then he was demoted to fourth string. Then, when he played, they seemed to run the ball a little too much (I know that he wasn't a great passer, but the running and option was still a little overkill).

Lol.

[TXBRONC]

My concern with Manning was his health. While everything worked out great there were legitimate concerns that Manning was never going come back the way he did.

[BroncoWave]

Tebow was ******* terrible. Elway was moving on, Manning or no.

Mo, did you actually read the entire post you responded to? I'm kinda convinced you just read the paragraph about the Pats game then went to your enraged Tebow-sucks angry midget mode. He said multiple times in that post that Elway still would have picked a different QB.

[Davii]

Mo, did you actually read the entire post you responded to? I'm kinda convinced you just read the paragraph about the Pats game then went to your enraged Tebow-sucks angry midget mode. He said multiple times in that post that Elway still would have picked a different QB.

Sure, right along side "Tebow didn't play too bad". I'm pretty sure MO was responding to the overall "Tebow Apologist" tone, not just one comment.

[BroncoWave]

Sure, right along side "Tebow didn't play too bad". I'm pretty sure MO was responding to the overall "Tebow Apologist" tone, not just one comment.

Except he spend half of that post talking about how Elway was going to replace Tebow in the draft that year. Sure he defended Tebow's play a bit, but he was still conceding that he would have no longer been a Bronco.

[TXBRONC]

That Titan D wasn't too much to write home about. I don't think that Manning would have won jack crap in Tennessee. That would have been a huge mistake.

As for the Broncos, no Manning =/ Tebow. Elway didn't want anything to do with him, which is ashame.

I watched the 2011 Patriot playoff game on You Tube again (just the first half), and Tebow really didn't play that bad. There were a couple drops, and Orlando Franklin and Chris Clark (when they would go 6 OL) were making Rob Ninkovich look like Bruce Smith. He had a strip sack (and the Pats recovered), and he also hit Tebow on another play just as he was trying to hit a wide open McGahee in the flat.

Elway probably drafts Brandon Weeden in Round 1. Denver wins a bad AFC West (because they had talent), but in 2013, they regress as Weeden regresses. As a result, either Teddy Bridgewater or Derek Carr is the Bronco QB today, not Sanchez or Lynch.

Also, what's funny is that they may have a SB title today anyway if they still would have hired Kubes and Wade. Maybe they hire them a year earlier.

I disagree with you on how badly Tebow played in the playoff game against the Patriots. He completed just 34% of his passes in that game, with no touchdowns and a fumble. IMHO that isn't very good.

[Valar Morghulis]

No Peyton, no welker, no Sanders, no talib, no ward, no ware blah blah

No Superbowl team

Manning made Denver a place to go.

[Davii]

No Peyton, no welker, no Sanders, no talib, no ward, no ware blah blah

No Superbowl team

Manning made Denver a place to go.

Exactly. I don't think the author really took into account how attractive a landing spot Denver was in free agency due to Manning's presence. Who else would've followed Peyton to Tennessee if this had happened? No telling obviously, but like you mentioned, chances are they're not in Denver. At the least I'm willing to bet Sanders would've been in KC.

[MOtorboat]

Mo, did you actually read the entire post you responded to? I'm kinda convinced you just read the paragraph about the Pats game then went to your enraged Tebow-sucks angry midget mode. He said multiple times in that post that Elway still would have picked a different QB.

Yeah, he did. He said it with total disdain too, especially after saying it was a shame Elway was moving on. My response was fully appropriate, especially after five years of this dumb shit.

[BroncoWave]

Yeah, he did. He said it with total disdain too, especially after saying it was a shame Elway was moving on. My response was fully appropriate, especially after five years of this dumb shit.

I think half the reason people still bring Tebow up is because of the comedy we get from your reaction to it.

[Northman]

I know that. That is why I said that they would have drafted Weeden, and he would have been the starter.

Also, while I am not a Skip Bayless-esque Tebow fan boy, consider this: He really had no OTA's or minicamps to get ready because of the lockout, and then he was demoted to fourth string. Then, when he played, they seemed to run the ball a little too much (I know that he wasn't a great passer, but the running and option was still a little overkill).

Its pretty safe to assume since Tebow could not make a significant impact on 3 other teams other than the Broncos that it didnt matter if he did the OTA's or not. The guy got a lot of chances after he left Denver and the criticisms were all the same, he just cant play the position at a pro level good enough to be a backup let alone a franchise player for any team. Great athlete, good character guy, but terrible QB. At least he can say he was able to contribute to a 8-8 team that upset a Steeler team in the playoffs. Fun year but was never going to be sustainable long term.

[underrated29]

Mo, did you actually read the entire post you responded to? I'm kinda convinced you just read the paragraph about the Pats game then went to your enraged Tebow-sucks angry midget mode. He said multiple times in that post that Elway still would have picked a different QB.




He does have Angry Midget Mode

[Cugel]

That Titan D wasn't too much to write home about. I don't think that Manning would have won jack crap in Tennessee. That would have been a huge mistake.

As for the Broncos, no Manning =/ Tebow. Elway didn't want anything to do with him, which is ashame. [No. No it's not. Tebow was a colossal failure and washed out of the league because he couldn't play QB. Nothing could change that. You either can play or you can't. Many are called. Few are chosen, and Tebow wasn't one of the chosen. ]

Elway probably drafts Brandon Weeden in Round 1. Denver wins a bad AFC West (because they had talent), but in 2013, they regress as Weeden regresses. As a result, either Teddy Bridgewater or Derek Carr is the Bronco QB today, not Sanchez or Lynch.

That's where the article completely goes off the rails, when it assumes the Broncos wouldn't draft a QB or would hold onto Tim Tebow. NO Chance whatever.

I remember seeing Elway in the summer of 2011 standing about 10 feet away, watching Tim Tebow doing a passing drill, where he was doing the typical Tebow - overthrowing WRs, throwing the ball into the stands, etc., etc. Just wildly inaccurate, and horrible footwork like he always had.

And Elway did not have a happy look on his face. I remember thinking at the time "Elway looks like this is not what he wants in his starting QB."

And this was before all the Tebow-mania from the Pittsburgh fluke victory. I thought then and know now that Elway was planning all along to get rid of Tebow as soon as he could - which was the 2012 season.

He drafted Osweiler because he was 21 years old and would still be relatively young if Peyton played for a few years and he sat on the bench (he's 25 now).

But if they needed an immediate starter because Manning went to Tennessee, then they would have drafted Brandon Weeden. All the reports at the time were that Elway loved Weeden.

They would have wasted a 2nd round pick on him.

[OrangeHoof]

Butt Adams would not have been patient enough to wait four years on Manning to get a title and he would not have been savvy enough to find the surrounding cast that pushed Peyton across the finish line. Manning would have finished with just the one title and the whole experiment would have been considered a failure.

[Joel]

Butt Adams would not have been patient enough to wait four years on Manning to get a title and he would not have been savvy enough to find the surrounding cast that pushed Peyton across the finish line. Manning would have finished with just the one title and the whole experiment would have been considered a failure.
The rarity of my agreement with you underscores just how right you are this time.

[7DnBrnc53]

I disagree with you on how badly Tebow played in the playoff game against the Patriots. He completed just 34% of his passes in that game, with no touchdowns and a fumble. IMHO that isn't very good.

Dude, I just watched the game on You Tube. It wasn't that bad. You are just looking at stats. That fumble was because of Orlando Franklin, not Tebow.

[Simple Jaded]

Elway drops Tebow regardless of whether or not Manning signs with Denver, because Tebow was horrible. However, it's not even close to the same happy ending as 90% of fans immediately turn on Elway, because Tebow fans are ******* stupid.

[Simple Jaded]

Peyton Manning saved Broncos Country, that's no exaggeration, Broncos fans had gone Full Retard. Some of you actually preferred Tebow to Manning, which is still, to this day.......shocking.

[TXBRONC]

Dude, I just watched the game on You Tube. It wasn't that bad. You are just looking at stats. That fumble was because of Orlando Franklin, not Tebow.

My friend, we'll just have to disagree on how it looked.

[Slick]

Peyton Manning saved Broncos Country, that's no exaggeration, Broncos fans had gone Full Retard. Some of you actually preferred Tebow to Manning, which is still, to this day.......shocking.

I preferred Tebow to Orton. What does that qualify as? Half-retard?

[TXBRONC]

Elway drops Tebow regardless of whether or not Manning signs with Denver, because Tebow was horrible. However, it's not even close to the same happy ending as 90% of fans immediately turn on Elway, because Tebow fans are ******* stupid.

I don't know if Elway would have drop him immediately if Manning had signed. Tebow might have made it one more season but, I don't think it would have went beyond one more season.

[BroncoWave]

Peyton Manning saved Broncos Country, that's no exaggeration, Broncos fans had gone Full Retard. Some of you actually preferred Tebow to Manning, which is still, to this day.......shocking.

No non-troll Broncos fan preferred Tebow to Manning.

[Cugel]

I disagree with you on how badly Tebow played in the playoff game against the Patriots. He completed just 34% of his passes in that game, with no touchdowns and a fumble. IMHO that isn't very good.

TXBronx is right. Tebow was utterly crushed by the Patriots defense. They put up a clinic on how to defense Tebow. They sat back in underneath coverage and dared him to throw. Then when he tried to run, they came up and hit him. Hard. He had broken ribs in that game and could not have played if by some miracle the Broncos had won and advanced to the AFC Championship Game.

He wasn't just horrible. He was utterly exposed. That game led directly to his being traded, relegated to red-zone special packages, and then to being out of the league.

[Cugel]

Elway drops Tebow regardless of whether or not Manning signs with Denver, because Tebow was horrible. However, it's not even close to the same happy ending as 90% of fans immediately turn on Elway, because Tebow fans are ******* stupid.

Well, it's not 90% because 90% of Broncos fans were never Tebow fans. He had somewhere around 1/2 the fans. And most of the media because the media love a good controversy, and all they had to do was mention the word "Tebow" and instant clicks.

But, you're right that a loud and vocal minority of Broncos fans at least would have been making further insane arguments - like this one (this was real I swear!): "Elway is just jealous of Tebow because he doesn't want Tebow to break all his (Elway's) records!"

That was said with a straight face. That guy was serious. Tebow was going to break Elway's record for 5 SBs (now surpassed by Tom Brady). I kid you not. Sanity quotient among Tebow fans was not ever very high.

[nevcraw]

No non-troll Broncos fan preferred Tebow to Manning.

No but would take Tebow every day of the week and 2x on Sunday over Orton.
I loved the Tebow season. Was by far the most exciting, thrilling, amazing season In Denver produced with a qb not named Elway or later Manning. I don't care how much he didn't fit the mold of NFL QB - he just won. Can't believe there are still Bronco fans out there who cannot just enjoy what he did and the season for what it was.. He is not his fans and he deserves much more respect than given for turning around a 1-4 Orton lead monstrosity to later beating the freaking Steelers in the playoffs.

[Joel]

I don't know if Elway would have drop him immediately if Manning had signed. Tebow might have made it one more season but, I don't think it would have went beyond one more season.
That sounds about right, unless Tebow made a quantum leap in consistency, which would've been very unlikely. Love or hate him, the FACT is:

Tebow took a team that only won a SINGLE game in FIVE tries to a 7-4 division championship and playoff win against the 13-3 reigning Conference Champs.

People can say that was all about our great D, but remember: That's the same "great" UNDERACHIEVING Del Rio D that blew its ONLY playoff game in 2012 and NEVER lived up to its potential even with MANNING POSTING THE BEST PASSING SEASON EVER. Until Wade came in and made them what any group that talented always should've been, our D was a "looks good on paper" tiger. But THEY turned a 1-4 team into 7-4 division champs, then beat the AFC Champs in the playoffs?

Elway couldn't have ended 2011 by saying Tebow would be our starter come training camp and STILL cut him with no apparent alternative. Signing the GoAT was a literal gamechanger, but if our best Plan B were Weeden Tebow would've started Opening Day 2012—even if he'd wound up benched, traded or just plain cut by Halloween. You don't leave yourself ZERO options, and Elway certainly doesn't: Setting up endless contingencies is a big reason he has another Ring.

[Simple Jaded]

You guys remember Tebowmania differently than I do.

I remember suggesting that Tebow would be an ideal backup QB not long before signing Manning, the typical reaction from Broncos fans was nothing compared to the insanity aimed at Elway for not looking happy enough when Tebow put in a solid 58 seconds of passable NFL level performance.

I remember BRONCOS fans flipping the **** out when I suggested going after Manning in Mid-2011 season, enough of you going so far as to question Elways motives if he even considered replacing Tebow, much less going after Manning.

"Elway is jealous", "just because he's a HoF QB it doesn't make him an expert on QB's"......."the game is changing and Elway is holding this team back". I could go on all day, the point is it was stupid, a monument to stupidity.

Yeah, BRONCOS fans went full-blown, batshit Tebowmania crazy.

[BroncoWave]

You guys remember Tebowmania differently than I do.

I remember suggesting that Tebow would be an ideal backup QB not long before signing Manning, the typical reaction from Broncos fans was nothing compared to the insanity aimed at Elway for not looking happy enough when Tebow put in a solid 58 seconds of passable NFL level performance.

I remember BRONCOS fans flipping the **** out when I suggested going after Manning in Mid-2011 season, enough of you going so far as to question Elways motives if he even considered replacing Tebow, much less going after Manning.

"Elway is jealous", "just because he's a HoF QB it doesn't make him an expert on QB's"......."the game is changing and Elway is holding this team back". I could go on all day, the point is it was stupid, a monument to stupidity.

Yeah, BRONCOS fans went full-blown, batshit Tebowmania crazy.

I'm pretty sure you are things of jagsbch or gator or someone. What longtime, well-respected posters on here were saying any of that stuff?

[Simple Jaded]

I preferred Tebow to Orton. What does that qualify as? Half-retard?

I hated Orton, he's a bed wetter, but he had ability Tebow never did.

[Simple Jaded]

I'm pretty sure you are things of jagsbch or gator or someone. What longtime, well-respected posters on here were saying any of that stuff?

Absolutely, posters I respected and knew long before BroncosForums hit the interwebs, the same people that were flooding my CP with high fives and rep were suddenly telling me I know nothing about football. I was as unpopular in real life when it came to Tebow as I was around here, I had ONE buddy that didn't think he was gonna revolutionize the game.

[Joel]

I hated Orton, he's a bed wetter, but he had ability Tebow never did.
If so, it didn't show up on the field. 7-4>1-4. By nearly half a seasons worth of wins. It's another case where there are more than two options; "better than Orton"=/="first ballot HoFer." But for every fan/poster convinced Tebow could do no wrong, no matter HOW bad the evidence in front of their eyes, there was another convinced he could do nothing right, no matter how GOOD the evidence in front of their eyes.

Keep in mind that McDumbass lost me forever the moment he tried to shop Cutler for a kings ransom, lied to his face about it, then spent a first round pick on the latest of countless overrated raw "dual threat" SECAA phenoms to be our franchise QB: That in the Last Days of Orton I started a thread calling for QUINN to start, not because Notre Dame phenoms are any less overhyped, but because the ONLY alternative was too awful to contemplate.

It took a month or two, but Tebow won me over with his RESULTS, which were raw and flawed but EFFECTIVE. That puts me in a small group that didn't form a committed PERMANENT opinion of him before his first pro SNAP, and never again looked for anything but evidence to confirm their bias. To quote Keynes, "When the facts change, I change my mind; what do you do, sir?"

Tebow was neither the best nor worst QB EVAH, and a long way from either. He was way better than Orton, as their respective records demonstrate, but he was a long way from a consistently NFL caliber starter, even at the end of 2011, and it's doubtful he'd have closed that massive gap by the end of 2012. But if we hadn't had Manning and our only alternative had been Weeden or some other long shot late pick reach, he'd probably have gotten at least half of 2012 to TRY.

[Joel]

Absolutely, posters I respected and knew long before BroncosForums hit the interwebs, the same people that were flooding my CP with high fives and rep were suddenly telling me I know nothing about football.
Funny thing: Some people believe their experience and knowledge of football so broad and deep that ANY disagreement with them is prima facie evidence of total ignorance. Tellingly, they're the same people who angrily dismiss presentation of factual counterevidence as an attempt to prove oneself smarter than everyone else. Another fun fact: Virtually no one feels threatened by anyone they KNOW to be dumber than them, but when they know—WITHOUT you saying it—that you're smarter than them, that's usually when problems begin. ;)

All that said, speculating about whether we'd have been better off with Tebow than Not-Manning in 2012 is less relevant and verifiable than whether we'd be better off with Wilson than Orton/Lynch now.

[Simple Jaded]

Speak English, Joel.

[Simple Jaded]

If so, it didn't show up on the field. 7-4>1-4. By nearly half a seasons worth of wins. It's another case where there are more than two options; "better than Orton"=/="first ballot HoFer." But for every fan/poster convinced Tebow could do no wrong, no matter HOW bad the evidence in front of their eyes, there was another convinced he could do nothing right, no matter how GOOD the evidence in front of their eyes.

Keep in mind that McDumbass lost me forever the moment he tried to shop Cutler for a kings ransom, lied to his face about it, then spent a first round pick on the latest of countless overrated raw "dual threat" SECAA phenoms to be our franchise QB: That in the Last Days of Orton I started a thread calling for QUINN to start, not because Notre Dame phenoms are any less overhyped, but because the ONLY alternative was too awful to contemplate.

It took a month or two, but Tebow won me over with his RESULTS, which were raw and flawed but EFFECTIVE. That puts me in a small group that didn't form a committed PERMANENT opinion of him before his first pro SNAP, and never again looked for anything but evidence to confirm their bias. To quote Keynes, "When the facts change, I change my mind; what do you do, sir?"

Tebow was neither the best nor worst QB EVAH, and a long way from either. He was way better than Orton, as their respective records demonstrate, but he was a long way from a consistently NFL caliber starter, even at the end of 2011, and it's doubtful he'd have closed that massive gap by the end of 2012. But if we hadn't had Manning and our only alternative had been Weeden or some other long shot late pick reach, he'd probably have gotten at least half of 2012 to TRY.

Is there an admission of how wrong you were in this post?

[7DnBrnc53]

If so, it didn't show up on the field. 7-4>1-4. By nearly half a seasons worth of wins. It's another case where there are more than two options; "better than Orton"=/="first ballot HoFer." But for every fan/poster convinced Tebow could do no wrong, no matter HOW bad the evidence in front of their eyes, there was another convinced he could do nothing right, no matter how GOOD the evidence in front of their eyes.

Keep in mind that McDumbass lost me forever the moment he tried to shop Cutler for a kings ransom, lied to his face about it, then spent a first round pick on the latest of countless overrated raw "dual threat" SECAA phenoms to be our franchise QB: That in the Last Days of Orton I started a thread calling for QUINN to start, not because Notre Dame phenoms are any less overhyped, but because the ONLY alternative was too awful to contemplate.

It took a month or two, but Tebow won me over with his RESULTS, which were raw and flawed but EFFECTIVE. That puts me in a small group that didn't form a committed PERMANENT opinion of him before his first pro SNAP, and never again looked for anything but evidence to confirm their bias. To quote Keynes, "When the facts change, I change my mind; what do you do, sir?"

Tebow was neither the best nor worst QB EVAH, and a long way from either. He was way better than Orton, as their respective records demonstrate, but he was a long way from a consistently NFL caliber starter, even at the end of 2011, and it's doubtful he'd have closed that massive gap by the end of 2012. But if we hadn't had Manning and our only alternative had been Weeden or some other long shot late pick reach, he'd probably have gotten at least half of 2012 to TRY.

And, if he would have gotten 2012 to try in Denver, he would have had a full offseason this time.

[Davii]

Well, it's not 90% because 90% of Broncos fans were never Tebow fans. He had somewhere around 1/2 the fans. And most of the media because the media love a good controversy, and all they had to do was mention the word "Tebow" and instant clicks.

But, you're right that a loud and vocal minority of Broncos fans at least would have been making further insane arguments - like this one (this was real I swear!): "Elway is just jealous of Tebow because he doesn't want Tebow to break all his (Elway's) records!"

That was said with a straight face. That guy was serious. Tebow was going to break Elway's record for 5 SBs (now surpassed by Tom Brady). I kid you not. Sanity quotient among Tebow fans was not ever very high.

That was said on here, and honestly believed, by no less than three people.

[Davii]

No but would take Tebow every day of the week and 2x on Sunday over Orton.
I loved the Tebow season. Was by far the most exciting, thrilling, amazing season In Denver produced with a qb not named Elway or later Manning. I don't care how much he didn't fit the mold of NFL QB - he just won. Can't believe there are still Bronco fans out there who cannot just enjoy what he did and the season for what it was.. He is not his fans and he deserves much more respect than given for turning around a 1-4 Orton lead monstrosity to later beating the freaking Steelers in the playoffs.

No, he really doesn't.

[Slick]

You guys remember Tebowmania differently than I do.

I remember suggesting that Tebow would be an ideal backup QB not long before signing Manning, the typical reaction from Broncos fans was nothing compared to the insanity aimed at Elway for not looking happy enough when Tebow put in a solid 58 seconds of passable NFL level performance.

I remember BRONCOS fans flipping the **** out when I suggested going after Manning in Mid-2011 season, enough of you going so far as to question Elways motives if he even considered replacing Tebow, much less going after Manning.

"Elway is jealous", "just because he's a HoF QB it doesn't make him an expert on QB's"......."the game is changing and Elway is holding this team back". I could go on all day, the point is it was stupid, a monument to stupidity.

Yeah, BRONCOS fans went full-blown, batshit Tebowmania crazy.

I don't remember it being quite that bad but I don't care enough to continue the discussion.

[BroncoWave]

No, he really doesn't.

Why not? Why is it so hard to give him at least a little respect for the role he played in helping to turn that season around? That doesn't mean you have to say he was a good QB or that we should have kept him or gave him another chance. But is it too much to ask to just appreciate him for the excitement he gave us for half a season? Yeah it was ugly at times, but that was as fun of a season as I have ever had as a Broncos fan, even if it was short-lived and unsustainable.

[Davii]

Why not? Why is it so hard to give him at least a little respect for the role he played in helping to turn that season around? That doesn't mean you have to say he was a good QB or that we should have kept him or gave him another chance. But is it too much to ask to just appreciate him for the excitement he gave us for half a season? Yeah it was ugly at times, but that was as fun of a season as I have ever had as a Broncos fan, even if it was short-lived and unsustainable.

Do we really have to relive and rehash the stupid damned Tebow bullshit every ******* day? Really?

He got his respect, I wore a jersey that had his name on it, he's no longer a Bronco. Should we discuss every other role player that was on a Bronco team that won a playoff game?

Plummer was 1,000X the player Tebow was, let's make every third thread about him. Sounds like fun!

Why should I give Tim more respect than anyone else? My statement was no, he doesn't deserve more respect. So please, tell me why he does. Why does he deserve more respect than the other 52 guys on that squad? Why dies he deserve more respect than guys on that squad who actually were good at their position?

[Davii]

Thanks for the heads up on the accidental lock BW. Apparently Percocet is a harder drug than I thought!

[BroncoWave]

Thanks for the heads up on the accidental lock BW. Apparently Percocet is a harder drug than I thought!

As a gesture to you not to put any more undue annoyance/emotional strain on you, I will refrain from any more Tebow talk. We can't have you going around locking threads all day! :D

[Davii]

As a gesture to you not to put any more undue annoyance/emotional strain on you, I will refrain from any more Tebow talk. We can't have you going around locking threads all day! :D

I really don't even know how it happens, but that's the third time so it's obviously something I'm doing

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

These are all painful truths we should ignore.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Thanks for the heads up on the accidental lock BW. Apparently Percocet is a harder drug than I thought!
Why are you taking Percocet Davii? It's basically diluted morphine. Did you just get a root canal?

[Davii]

Why are you taking Percocet Davii? It's basically diluted morphine. Did you just get a root canal?

Vasectomy yesterday.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Vasectomy yesterday.

Yikes....sit on ice brother. :laugh:

We've talked about doing that several years. What did it cost?

[Davii]

Yikes....sit on ice brother. :laugh:

We've talked about doing that several years. What did it cost?

Nada, naval medicine. I did get to see a urologist out in town though as the clinic here isn't qualified to perform the surgery.

[Joel]

Speak English, Joel.
I do and did: My (English) reading comprehension tested at a post-high school level midway through 3rd grade; if you still lag a bit behind that, whose fault is it...? ;)


Is there an admission of how wrong you were in this post?
No, there's a demonstration of how wrong you are even with the benefit of hindsight: If Orton were better than Tebow, Orton wouldn't have lost his job to Tebow, or gone 1-4 with the same Del Rio D Tebow rode to 7-4 and a playoff win against the reigning AFC Champs. Again, that doesn't make Tebow the GoAT, because there's a long way between that and Orton. The point is people convinced Tebow is the best/worst EVAH despite all the evidence to the contrary are equally biased.


And, if he would have gotten 2012 to try in Denver, he would have had a full offseason this time.
Meh. By the end of 2011 he had a full season of pro starts (e.g. 2 playoff games, 11 regular season and 3 at the end of 2010.) Anything he didn't gain from that and his rookie offseason wasn't lost to the lockout, and wouldn't have been belatedly gained from another offseason with McCoy and Gase. McCoy's good, but not the kind of elite QB guru Tebow needed: Someone who can teach ANYONE to look decent. Ironically, what he REALLY needed was Kubiak; what he GOT was Martyball Jr.

Too bad: What might possibly potentially theoretically have been. Guy's got the physical gifts, and the work ethic, but every coach he's ever had was content to get by on his sheer jaw-dropping athleticism rather than, y'know, DO THEIR JOB, and it worked until he got to the NFL: Then he went the way of all the other SECAA "dual threat" phenoms who'd never developed any actual passing SKILL to go with their cannon.

[Simple Jaded]

And, if he would have gotten 2012 to try in Denver, he would have had a full offseason this time.

Well, Tebow was practically still a rookie when Elway sabatoge his career out of jealousy.

[Simple Jaded]

I do and did: My (English) reading comprehension tested at a post-high school level midway through 3rd grade; if you still lag a bit behind that, whose fault is it...? ;)


No, there's a demonstration of how wrong you are even with the benefit of hindsight: If Orton were better than Tebow, Orton wouldn't have lost his job to Tebow, or gone 1-4 with the same Del Rio D Tebow rode to 7-4 and a playoff win against the reigning AFC Champs. Again, that doesn't make Tebow the GoAT, because there's a long way between that and Orton. The point is people convinced Tebow is the best/worst EVAH despite all the evidence to the contrary are equally biased.


Meh. By the end of 2011 he had a full season of pro starts (e.g. 2 playoff games, 11 regular season and 3 at the end of 2010.) Anything he didn't gain from that and his rookie offseason wasn't lost to the lockout, and wouldn't have been belatedly gained from another offseason with McCoy and Gase. McCoy's good, but not the kind of elite QB guru Tebow needed: Someone who can teach ANYONE to look decent. Ironically, what he REALLY needed was Kubiak; what he GOT was Martyball Jr.

Too bad: What might possibly potentially theoretically have been. Guy's got the physical gifts, and the work ethic, but every coach he's ever had was content to get by on his sheer jaw-dropping athleticism rather than, y'know, DO THEIR JOB, and it worked until he got to the NFL: Then he went the way of all the other SECAA "dual threat" phenoms who'd never developed any actual passing SKILL to go with their cannon.

I have literally never been wrong about Tebow, Joel, not once. Orton was so far superior to Tebow that Tebow should be ******* humiliated.

[Simple Jaded]

There was absolutely nothing "jaw dropping" about Tebow's athleticism, other than his sweet 3-cone he's an average athlete by today's NFL QB standards. You guys always just couldn't accept reality, he didn't work harder than everyone else, he wasn't a world-class athlete, he wasn't gods gift to football, he didn't "single-handedly will his team to wins", he didn't take a 1-4 team to the playoffs. He was an average athlete with marginal backup skillset.

[Nomad]

As much as I was frustrated in the 2 SBs with Peyton, I'm thankful he was a BRONCO. He was a class act, fun to root for, and will be missed. Thank you, Peyton Manning, for being a Denver BRONCO!

[Joel]

I have literally never been wrong about Tebow, Joel, not once. Orton was so far superior to Tebow that Tebow should be ******* humiliated.
Same coaches. Same D. Same line. Same RBs. Same WRs—wait, no: Orton had Brandon Lloyd all 5 games, but we traded him after Tebows first start.

Yet one guy was 1-4 and the other 7-4 plus a playoff win against a 13-3 reigning AFC Champ.

Tebow pretty much PERMANENTLY BROKE Ike Taylor with a pair of TD passes, first to Royal and then the walkoff game-winner to DT; poor SOB's never been the same since that game. I concede the second TD was all DT (though Tebow still had to recognize the single coverage with no safety help) but the first would've made Elway or Manning themselves proud: An arc 40 yds through the air to the corner of the end zone where Royal didn't have to do anything more than wait for it to come down just past the outstretched fingertips of a great CB who's been JaG ever since.

I'm not asking you to say Tebow's great or even good: I'm merely asking you accept Elway, Fox and McCoys judgement that he was better than ORTON, which is setting the bar pretty low—but STILL too high for Tebows "anti-fanbois." Making a raw untested QB into a guy who won twice as many games as he lost is half the reason McCoy's a head coach now: Because Tebow was SO awful making him successful by rebuilding the whole offense around his limited skill set was a major accomplishment, and rebuilding it AGAIN in one offseason to fit Mannings radically different style as much an accomplishment.

So what did McCoy and Gase accomplish with ORTON...?

[Simple Jaded]

The defense was getting healthy and gelling in the new scheme while the offense got worse and worse by the week. Nope, the Broncos took Tebow to the playoffs, not the other way around. Tebow was horrible, the single worst passer the league had seen in decades. That is no exaggeration.

That walk off TD was a 10-yard route that DT did all the heavy lifting on, Tebow didn't recognize shit, it was his first/only read.

And no, the fact that they benched Orton is favor of Tebow doesn't mean anyone has to accept that anyone thought Tebow was better than Orton. Orton retired with offers for starting jobs on the table, while the NFL wants no part of Tebow.

[Simple Jaded]

Same coaches. Same D. Same line. Same RBs. Same WRs—wait, no: Orton had Brandon Lloyd all 5 games, but we traded him after Tebows first start.

Yet one guy was 1-4 and the other 7-4 plus a playoff win against a 13-3 reigning AFC Champ.

Tebow pretty much PERMANENTLY BROKE Ike Taylor with a pair of TD passes, first to Royal and then the walkoff game-winner to DT; poor SOB's never been the same since that game. I concede the second TD was all DT (though Tebow still had to recognize the single coverage with no safety help) but the first would've made Elway or Manning themselves proud: An arc 40 yds through the air to the corner of the end zone where Royal didn't have to do anything more than wait for it to come down just past the outstretched fingertips of a great CB who's been JaG ever since.

I'm not asking you to say Tebow's great or even good: I'm merely asking you accept Elway, Fox and McCoys judgement that he was better than ORTON, which is setting the bar pretty low—but STILL too high for Tebows "anti-fanbois." Making a raw untested QB into a guy who won twice as many games as he lost is half the reason McCoy's a head coach now: Because Tebow was SO awful making him successful by rebuilding the whole offense around his limited skill set was a major accomplishment, and rebuilding it AGAIN in one offseason to fit Mannings radically different style as much an accomplishment.

So what did McCoy and Gase accomplish with ORTON...?

Have you ever charted plays, Joel?

[MOtorboat]

Same coaches. Same D. Same line. Same RBs. Same WRs—wait, no: Orton had Brandon Lloyd all 5 games, but we traded him after Tebows first start.

Yet one guy was 1-4 and the other 7-4 plus a playoff win against a 13-3 reigning AFC Champ.

Tebow pretty much PERMANENTLY BROKE Ike Taylor with a pair of TD passes, first to Royal and then the walkoff game-winner to DT; poor SOB's never been the same since that game. I concede the second TD was all DT (though Tebow still had to recognize the single coverage with no safety help) but the first would've made Elway or Manning themselves proud: An arc 40 yds through the air to the corner of the end zone where Royal didn't have to do anything more than wait for it to come down just past the outstretched fingertips of a great CB who's been JaG ever since.

I'm not asking you to say Tebow's great or even good: I'm merely asking you accept Elway, Fox and McCoys judgement that he was better than ORTON, which is setting the bar pretty low—but STILL too high for Tebows "anti-fanbois." Making a raw untested QB into a guy who won twice as many games as he lost is half the reason McCoy's a head coach now: Because Tebow was SO awful making him successful by rebuilding the whole offense around his limited skill set was a major accomplishment, and rebuilding it AGAIN in one offseason to fit Mannings radically different style as much an accomplishment.

So what did McCoy and Gase accomplish with ORTON...?

See, here's the thing.

Elway, Fox and Gase thought Orton was better. That's why he won the starting job. They switched to Tebow not because he earned it (he never earned a job in his NFL career), they gave it to him because of how poor the team was playing. Kudos to Tebow for "taking advantage" of the situation, if by "taking advantage" means commencing with literally one of the worst quarterback seasons in the history of the NFL. Orton was 8-8 the year before. Tebow's team was 8-8 too. One lucked into the playoffs, one didn't.

[7DnBrnc53]

Meh. By the end of 2011 he had a full season of pro starts (e.g. 2 playoff games, 11 regular season and 3 at the end of 2010.) Anything he didn't gain from that and his rookie offseason wasn't lost to the lockout, and wouldn't have been belatedly gained from another offseason with McCoy and Gase. McCoy's good, but not the kind of elite QB guru Tebow needed: Someone who can teach ANYONE to look decent. Ironically, what he REALLY needed was Kubiak; what he GOT was Martyball Jr.

Too bad: What might possibly potentially theoretically have been. Guy's got the physical gifts, and the work ethic, but every coach he's ever had was content to get by on his sheer jaw-dropping athleticism rather than, y'know, DO THEIR JOB, and it worked until he got to the NFL: Then he went the way of all the other SECAA "dual threat" phenoms who'd never developed any actual passing SKILL to go with their cannon.

If I remember correctly, I think that Gase was frustrated with McCoy late in 2011 because they were running too much in the Bills game (I agree with Gase. They were).

As for college football, I said before that he should have left after his 2007 sophomore Heisman season, and he should have worked with a QB guru like Tom House for two years. That level wasn't helping him. It's too bad that Bill Walsh was on his death bed at that time. I would have loved to see him get a chance to work with Tim.

[Cugel]

You guys remember Tebowmania differently than I do.

I remember suggesting that Tebow would be an ideal backup QB not long before signing Manning, the typical reaction from Broncos fans was nothing compared to the insanity aimed at Elway for not looking happy enough when Tebow put in a solid 58 seconds of passable NFL level performance.

I remember BRONCOS fans flipping the **** out when I suggested going after Manning in Mid-2011 season, enough of you going so far as to question Elways motives if he even considered replacing Tebow, much less going after Manning.

"Elway is jealous", "just because he's a HoF QB it doesn't make him an expert on QB's"......."the game is changing and Elway is holding this team back". I could go on all day, the point is it was stupid, a monument to stupidity.

Yeah, BRONCOS fans went full-blown, batshit Tebowmania crazy.

Basically I remember the same crap. The team wasn't 12-4 that year, they backed into the playoffs on a fluke at 8-8, then won against an overconfident Steelers team that vastly underperformed and defensed them completely wrong. Then they got utterly crushed by the Patriots. "The game is changing and Tebow is the wave of the future! Elway is holding the team back because he's jealous of Tebow breaking all his records! Five years from now all Qbs in the NFL will be running like Tim Tebow!"

And the Tebow fans acted like he had revolutionized football forever. Pointing out that football hadn't changed one bit induced tirades about how people were just persecuting Christians.

One imbecile I remember insisted that the team refusing to keep Tim Tebow was moral equivalent to the Christian Martyrs of ancient Rome who got eaten by lions in the arena. Seriously.

I hated those fans because they weren't really Broncos fans, they were Tebow fans who had an agenda that had nothing to do with the broncos or football really.

[Simple Jaded]

If I remember correctly, I think that Gase was frustrated with McCoy late in 2011 because they were running too much in the Bills game (I agree with Gase. They were).

As for college football, I said before that he should have left after his 2007 sophomore Heisman season, and he should have worked with a QB guru like Tom House for two years. That level wasn't helping him. It's too bad that Bill Walsh was on his death bed at that time. I would have loved to see him get a chance to work with Tim.

He's worked with every QB Guru on the planet.

[Simple Jaded]

Basically I remember the same crap. The team wasn't 12-4 that year, they backed into the playoffs on a fluke at 8-8, then won against an overconfident Steelers team that vastly underperformed and defensed them completely wrong. Then they got utterly crushed by the Patriots. "The game is changing and Tebow is the wave of the future! Elway is holding the team back because he's jealous of Tebow breaking all his records! Five years from now all Qbs in the NFL will be running like Tim Tebow!"

And the Tebow fans acted like he had revolutionized football forever. Pointing out that football hadn't changed one bit induced tirades about how people were just persecuting Christians.

One imbecile I remember insisted that the team refusing to keep Tim Tebow was moral equivalent to the Christian Martyrs of ancient Rome who got eaten by lions in the arena. Seriously.

I hated those fans because they weren't really Broncos fans, they were Tebow fans who had an agenda that had nothing to do with the broncos or football really.

Tebowmania infected Broncos fans too, young and old, you wanna let them off the hook, that's magnanimous. That takes a big man.......I am not a big man, I am jaded, vindictive and hold a grudge.

[7DnBrnc53]

Here is a different alternate history take on Peyton. In this one, he declares for the draft in 1997, not 98:

http://in-thinair.com/2016/06/01/alternate-history-peyton-manning-declares-for-the-1997-nfl-draft/

[MasterShake]

I think my favorite thing about that whole time period is when Tim Tebow got traded some of us here went to the Jets Forums posing as Tebow fanatics to revel in their newfound distraction. My username was Tim-ply The Best and I got banned almost immediately. :lol:

I remember the scrimmage at Mile High when I first got to see Manning in action. It was so surreal. He drove down the field and in the red zone he did his crazy audible hand signals that I used to hate when he used them against us and the crowd went nuts. He just brought a certain respect to this organization that we hadn't had in years at the QB position. This season wasn't his best, but when he came back in against San Diego you can tell how the demeanor of the team, and the whole season, changed that day.

[Cugel]

There was absolutely nothing "jaw dropping" about Tebow's athleticism, other than his sweet 3-cone he's an average athlete by today's NFL QB standards. You guys always just couldn't accept reality, he didn't work harder than everyone else, he wasn't a world-class athlete, he wasn't gods gift to football, he didn't "single-handedly will his team to wins", he didn't take a 1-4 team to the playoffs. He was an average athlete with marginal backup skillset.

The reason a lot of fans (talking about the non-Tebow-bots) were excited about him coming in was because he was perhaps the best college QB ever. (Personally I don't think that, but that is a commonly stated opinion).

But great college players don't always do well in the NFL. His skill set simply didn't translate very well to the pros. That was the problem. He never was going to be an accurate passer.

You can't go back and remold the way a guy has been playing since Pop Warner. It's like a pitcher comes into MLB and they want to re-work his entire stance and windup and throwing motion. You can't do that without totally unwinding everything he's done that got him there. If he can't do what is expected at the highest level then he can't and you're not going to be able to coach him into being successful by changing everything.

[TXBRONC]

I think my favorite thing about that whole time period is when Tim Tebow got traded some of us here went to the Jets Forums posing as Tebow fanatics to revel in their newfound distraction. My username was Tim-ply The Best and I got banned almost immediately. :lol:

I remember the scrimmage at Mile High when I first got to see Manning in action. It was so surreal. He drove down the field and in the red zone he did his crazy audible hand signals that I used to hate when he used them against us and the crowd went nuts. He just brought a certain respect to this organization that we hadn't had in years at the QB position. This season wasn't his best, but when he came back in against San Diego you can tell how the demeanor of the team, and the whole season, changed that day.

Wow, did you say anything that rubbed them the wrong way? After Tebow was picked up by the Patriots I went one of their boards and immediately some Tebow fan showed up automatically assumed he would be heir-apparent to Brady.

[MasterShake]

Wow, did you say anything that rubbed them the wrong way? After Tebow was picked up by the Patriots I went one of their boards and immediately some Tebow fan showed up automatically assumed he would be heir-apparent to Brady.

Oh it was a total dick move on my part. I went in and started talking about how they were guaranteed a Super Bowl victory now, and I told them if they thought otherwise that I would pray for them. I went in there pretending to be a Tebow fanatic x 10 and got what I deserved. I did contact the mod directly after and let him know it was all in good fun and he had a good laugh. He said I could come back if I stopped trolling, but I told him it was never my intention. He said he had to ban several people that weren't faking an account so I decided that it was enough and quit while I was ahead.

[Cugel]

Tebowmania infected Broncos fans too, young and old, you wanna let them off the hook, that's magnanimous. That takes a big man.......I am not a big man, I am jaded, vindictive and hold a grudge.

:lol: I hold too many grudges to keep track. But, I can forget about true Broncos fans who got swept up in Tebow mania for a while. It's all those people who never went to a game and never will; who don't even follow the team, who were TEBOW fans that still annoy me. And they're still out there.

There was even one guy who wrote a letter to the editor of the Denver Post last year, that Peyton's injury and the Broncos losing bad to KC, was God's judgement on the Broncos for trading Tim Tebow! Can you imagine? That son of a bitch waited and waited for 4 years until he could say that. Peyton was so incontestably superior to Tebow there was really nothing for those idiots to latch onto - but they were still waiting there in the weeds, ready to jump in with their imbecilic notions.

They have persecution mania and "everybody is against them." And everything is personal. You walk innocently into their line of fire and suddenly are subjected to their crazy world view. My response to these people tends to be "What the hell? I didn't know I was persecuting you, and that this is a HUGE MORAL ISSUE for you to get butt hurt about."