Lynch may be ready sooner than you think

[TXBRONC]

This a quote from Elway.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000660532/article/elway-lynch-will-be-ready-quicker-than-people-think

[BroncoWave]

Given that he's already raising expectations on Lynch this quickly, doesn't really seem like he's that high on Sanchez. I'd think Elway would be tempering expectations on Lynch for year 1 if he was planning on Sanchez starting this whole season and letting Lynch learn.

[TXBRONC]

Given that he's already raising expectations on Lynch this quickly, doesn't really seem like he's that high on Sanchez. I'd think Elway would be tempering expectations on Lynch for year 1 if he was planning on Sanchez starting this whole season and letting Lynch learn.

Yeah it sounds that way.

[BroncoWave]

Yeah it sounds that way.

In my opinion, and I could be totally wrong, but I don't think Sanchez being the starter was ever the plan when Elway signed him. I think Elway fell pretty confident that he was also going to get someone like Kaep and he would just have Sanchez as a safe backup plan. So while Sanchez gets penciled in as the starter for now, I don't think Elway would be too upset if Lynch took over by the end of the year.

[TXBRONC]

In my opinion, and I could be totally wrong, but I don't think Sanchez being the starter was ever the plan when Elway signed him. I think Elway fell pretty confident that he was also going to get someone like Kaep and he would just have Sanchez as a safe backup plan. So while Sanchez gets penciled in as the starter for now, I don't think Elway would be too upset if Lynch took over by the end of the year.

Again I agree. Heck, depending how things go Lynch could be starting by midseason.

[BroncoJoe]

I'm pretty excited about the kid, but I also have a gut feeling Sanchez is going to have a very good year under Kubiak. It might be tough for Lynch to break into the lineup, which is OK, because I do believe he should sit this year out unless things fall completely apart.

[Simple Jaded]

Given that he's already raising expectations on Lynch this quickly, doesn't really seem like he's that high on Sanchez. I'd think Elway would be tempering expectations on Lynch for year 1 if he was planning on Sanchez starting this whole season and letting Lynch learn.

I think you're right but it seemed all along that they wanted to bring in competition for Sanchez, so now that they've said they won't bring in a veteran to compete this is the only other way to keep that kind pressure on Sanchez.

They were talking about Lynch in practice yesterday, "this is not going to be pretty for Sanchez once people see Lynch throwing in TC".

[BroncoJoe]

I think you're right but it seemed all along that they wanted to bring in competition for Sanchez, so now that they've said they won't bring in a veteran to compete this is the only other way to keep that kind pressure on Sanchez.

They were talking about Lynch in practice yesterday, "this is not going to be pretty for Sanchez once people see Lynch throwing in TC".

Who's they?

I'm not bashing on the kid, but the few highlights from yesterday that I saw showed him consistently over-throwing receivers. I think he's going to develop into a good to to very good to great QB, but he is really raw at this point.

[Simple Jaded]

Who's they?

I'm not bashing on the kid, but the few highlights from yesterday that I saw showed him consistently over-throwing receivers. I think he's going to develop into a good to to very good to great QB, but he is really raw at this point.

Dmac and Chad Brown, I guess they got to see the first half hour of workouts yesterday.

Personally, I want Lynch to sit this season, i don't think he's nearly ready unless Kubiak wants to run a lot of what he did in college.

[BroncoJoe]

Dmac and Chad Brown, I guess they got to see the first half hour of workouts yesterday.

Gotcha. I didn't listen to them yesterday.

I guess yesterday was the only day he'll participate. He's back to Memphis today to attend graduation.

[Simple Jaded]

Gotcha. I didn't listen to them yesterday.

I guess yesterday was the only day he'll participate. He's back to Memphis today to attend graduation.

You didn't miss much, Chad Brown is way, way better than Big Al. I tune in once Kreckman and Nalen go off the air.

[BroncoWave]

I think many times it's hard to resist getting your new toy out there especially when he is a first rounder you traded up for. If Sanchez starts to struggle and we go on a losing streak, I can see his leash getting really short this season.

I know most of our fans have talked themselves into Sanchez by now, but I'm still pretty unsure on him. Like I said, I don't think the plan was for Sanchez to be the starter when Elway signed him.

[TXBRONC]

I'm pretty excited about the kid, but I also have a gut feeling Sanchez is going to have a very good year under Kubiak. It might be tough for Lynch to break into the lineup, which is OK, because I do believe he should sit this year out unless things fall completely apart.

There are a lot of pundits who think that at some point in the year Sanchez at some point in the season he will start making a lot of mistakes because they say that's his m.o. If Lynch looks like he's ready to it will at the very least a major temptation to want to put him in.

[TXBRONC]

I think you're right but it seemed all along that they wanted to bring in competition for Sanchez, so now that they've said they won't bring in a veteran to compete this is the only other way to keep that kind pressure on Sanchez.

They were talking about Lynch in practice yesterday, "this is not going to be pretty for Sanchez once people see Lynch throwing in TC".

I don't know, Sanchez is a veteran so doubt he's intimidated by competition.

[BroncoWave]

I don't know, Sanchez is a veteran so doubt he's intimidated by competition.

Yeah Sanchez is used to having to compete for his job so I don't think that well be an issue.

[NightTerror218]

Elway is just raising the bar for sanchez. But if sanchez is having a good year and we are in position for #1 seed. I doubt we see lynch. Danchez is only on a 1 yr deal so that is the max lynch will sit if he is healthy.

[Poet]

I believe that Lynch will get some starts towards the end of the year. There are a lot scenarios that 'end' that way. I do think it is possible for Sanchez to have a solid year in Denver as well. If nothing else, it will be an interesting situation to monitor.

[TXBRONC]

I believe that Lynch will get some starts towards the end of the year. There are a lot scenarios that 'end' that way. I do think it is possible for Sanchez to have a solid year in Denver as well. If nothing else, it will be an interesting situation to monitor.

Camp is going to be fun to watch. I hope the Lynch can push Sanchez.

[Poet]

Camp is going to be fun to watch. I hope the Lynch can push Sanchez.

I hope Sanchez won't pull a Favre and refuse to tutor Lynch.

[TXBRONC]

I hope Sanchez won't pull a Favre and refuse to tutor Lynch.


I don't think he's like Favre.

[Poet]

I don't think he's like Favre.

I would be surprised if he was. Sanchez has always had a pretty strong degree of humility to him.

[Cugel]

I think many times it's hard to resist getting your new toy out there especially when he is a first rounder you traded up for. If Sanchez starts to struggle and we go on a losing streak, I can see his leash getting really short this season.

I know most of our fans have talked themselves into Sanchez by now, but I'm still pretty unsure on him. Like I said, I don't think the plan was for Sanchez to be the starter when Elway signed him.

Clearly they like him better than you're saying, because otherwise they would have done the deal for Colin Kaepernick.

Remember this is a veteran team that is the defending SB champion. Normally, teams don't sit their first round QB very long - but that's NOT a good thing.

Normally those teams went 3-13 or 4-12 to get those top draft picks. They suck and their coaches are on the hot seat. They have to show some improvement within 2 seasons or they're going to be fired. Only their team isn't good enough to win in year one. They're going to be right back in the top 10 again next season. They have to start the rookie QB, just to give him experience so that NEXT year he can lead the team to respectability and save their jobs. There's just not time to develop the QB properly.

Denver doesn't have to rush anything. Elway and Kubiak aren't going anywhere the next 5 seasons, and they just won the SB. If the team goes 8-8 and misses the playoffs, oh well. It's a disappointment, but not a disaster.

There's just no reason to put Lynch in there before he's absolutely ready. This team can win and go to the playoffs with Mark Sanchez, and unless they start tanking and he starts throwing picks, I don't think Lynch is going to start this season.

It was a big mistake when the Broncos benched Jake Plummer for Cutler when the team was 7-4 and it would be just as big a mistake to do it this season.

He will move up the depth chart ahead of Trevor Seimian though. And if Sanchez plays badly, then yes, he will be benched and they will move sooner rather than later to Lynch.

But, I don't think that's the plan.

[BroncoWave]

Cugel, I think they wanted kap pretty badly, but Elway is good about not overpaying for someone regardless however much he likes them. He even said after the draft that they were really close to getting that kap deal done.

[MOtorboat]

Best looking quarterbacks in the NFL.

[Tned]

I think many times it's hard to resist getting your new toy out there especially when he is a first rounder you traded up for. If Sanchez starts to struggle and we go on a losing streak, I can see his leash getting really short this season.

I know most of our fans have talked themselves into Sanchez by now, but I'm still pretty unsure on him. Like I said, I don't think the plan was for Sanchez to be the starter when Elway signed him.

I always assume that Sanchez was signed as insurance, so that if all else failed (other attempts to get a starter), they would have someone close to viable, not to mention a backup veteran if they did find a better starter. I'm with you that when they signed him, I don't think they viewed him as the guy they wanted to be their week 1 starter.

That said, it's possible in the months since they did sign him, that he might have made an impression on Elway and Kubiak and they might feel better about that then they did. It's really hard to know.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I don't expect to see him unless he makes huge strides and Sanchez implodes.
Another scenario is if we have the injury bug and are out of the playoff race with several games to go.

[Tned]

Clearly they like him better than you're saying, because otherwise they would have done the deal for Colin Kaepernick.



I don't think it's that simple. Sign him at what cost? Not signing Von to a long term deal? Not signing Marshall, Sanders or the other free agents they have coming up next year?

Elway has been pretty steadfast in doing everything he can to avoid mortgaging the future to win now.

Elway made no bones of the fact that he was trying to get Kap, so he clearly didn't want to go into the season with Sanchez, Siemean and a rookie or he wouldn't have been working to trade for Kap or call about Bradford.

So, what it appears is that Wave is correct in that they didn't want to go into the season with Sanchez as the starter, BUT were not going to mortgage the future (money or giving up too much in terms of draft picks) to get a QB that "might" be an upgrade to Sanchez. When he couldn't get a better option, or even solid competition, for a reasonable amount of compensation, combined with being able to get Lynch, they are ready to roll the dice with the three QBs they have, which doesn't mean that they wanted or want to have Sanchez as their week 1 starter.

[TXBRONC]

I always assume that Sanchez was signed as insurance, so that if all else failed (other attempts to get a starter), they would have someone close to viable, not to mention a backup veteran if they did find a better starter. I'm with you that when they signed him, I don't think they viewed him as the guy they wanted to be their week 1 starter.

That said, it's possible in the months since they did sign him, that he might have made an impression on Elway and Kubiak and they might feel better about that then they did. It's really hard to know.

I suspect you're right that they signed him as insurance. I can't remember the timing exactly but the Broncos started pursuing before the ink dry on Sanchez's contract.

[Tned]

I suspect you're right that they signed him as insurance. I can't remember the timing exactly but the Broncos started pursuing before the ink dry on Sanchez's contract.

They said as soon as they signed Sanchez that it wasn't the last move they would make, but it gave them the luxury to not rush into anything (paraphrasing, but that was the gist of it).

[TXBRONC]

They said as soon as they signed Sanchez that it wasn't the last move they would make, but it gave them the luxury to not rush into anything (paraphrasing, but that was the gist of it).

I think was one of the reasons that I felt Elway would have drafted Lynch (if available) even if they had signed Kaepernick.

[Northman]

If Elway was smart he wouldnt rush Lynch out that fast if he can help it.

[OrangeHoof]

I'm not going to worry over what they say in May. If Sanchez opens the season, fine. If Lynch finishes the season, fine. If the handoff is somewhere between the two, fine. I still expect the Broncos to make the playoffs because of their defense and I think when the playoffs begin we will start the QB that gives us the best chance to win.

[TXBRONC]

If Elway was smart he wouldnt rush Lynch out that fast if he can help it.

It's Sanchez's job to lose at this point. But if looks like Lynch grasping the offense that could change things in a hurry. Like Hoof, I'm not going to worry about Elway's says in May. How things progess in camp will be telling.

[broncohead]

I wouldn't be surprised to see a Plummer/Cutler situation this year. Regardless of record of Sanchez doesn't show the ability to move the offense we will probably switch to Lynch

[Tned]

If Elway was smart he wouldnt rush Lynch out that fast if he can help it.

I agree. A lot of it might come down to whether Elway and Kubiak thing throwing a young guy into the fire, and have him learn from mistakes and possibly get benched a few times along the way, is the best way to mold a QB or if it's to let him learn with a clipboard and at least be more mentally prepared when he finally gets the starting nod.

[TXBRONC]

The Ravens let Flacco take the reins his rookie season and he quarterbacked them to playoffs. They did it by being very good at running the ball and solid defense. It could.happen here as well.

[BroncoBuckeye73]

Lynch will be the starter by week 7 unless Sanchez is playing near an all pro level. I think he will be good, but not spectacular and even if we have a winning record he will be benched. We have seen this before with Plummer and Cutler and that is how it will play out. Sanchez can put up slightly better numbers than Manning did last year but Lynch offers more promise and possibilities and will lead us in the back half of the season.

[TXBRONC]

Lynch will be the starter by week 7 unless Sanchez is playing near an all pro level. I think he will be good, but not spectacular and even if we have a winning record he will be benched. We have seen this before with Plummer and Cutler and that is how it will play out. Sanchez can put up slightly better numbers than Manning did last year but Lynch offers more promise and possibilities and will lead us in the back half of the season.

If Sanchez is playing well and Denver is winning they'll be hard pressed to remove him.

[Tned]

The Ravens let Flacco take the reins his rookie season and he quarterbacked them to playoffs. They didn't it by being very good at running the ball and solid defense. It could.happen here as well.

And Pitt with Big Ben (I think it was the 2nd or third game, after Maddox or someone got hurt).

[OrangeHoof]

If I were to take a guess, I would say Sanchez starts up until the bye week (week 11) where the team can insert Lynch, get his first start for him at home against Kansas City, then two winnable road games at Jacksonville and Tennessee Before finishing the year at home vs New England, at Kansas City and home against Oakland.

But, again, I'm not writing this in stone. Just a familiar thing lately for teams with highly-drafted rookie QBs that don't start the beginning of the year to have them make their first start right after the bye week where they have two weeks to get him prepared.

[Cugel]

Cugel, I think they wanted kap pretty badly, but Elway is good about not overpaying for someone regardless however much he likes them. He even said after the draft that they were really close to getting that kap deal done.

I'm not disagreeing with Elway's decision. He's smart not to panic. It came down to a question of money however, so if they really liked Kaepernick much better than Sanchez, they would have gotten the deal done. It was doable, but the Broncos didn't want to absorb too much of Sanchez's cap hit of $15.9M this season.

Elway preferred to go with Sanchez, and a rookie who turned out to be Paxton Lynch. Since no rookie QB in the history of the NFL has EVER won a SB and since this is the defending SB champions it follows that they must rely on Sanchez.

If he fails or if the team isn't in position to make another run at the SB, then put Lynch in. Not before.

[Cugel]

In 2006, I liked Jay Cutler and thought he was going to be a top 10 QB in this league, so I supported the decision to bench Plummer.

Is there the slightest doubt today, 10 years later, that fans like me, and Shanahan and the Broncos were flat wrong? That team was 7-4 and in playoff contention. Putting in Cutler was a bad mistake.

Putting in Lynch this season would be repeating that bad mistake. NO rookie QB can ever lead a team to a SB. It's never happened and probably never will. Many NFL QBs get thrown in too early and it hurts their development. The Broncos can't afford make that mistake with Lynch. He needs to sit on the bench for a year and learn how to play in this league.

It's not going to help the team win a championship this year to start him.

Now maybe Sanchez can't get the job done. If not, then they have nothing to lose. But, until the Broncos are eliminated or it becomes obvious that Sanchez isn't good enough, they need to sit Lynch.

[Joel]

I'm pretty excited about the kid, but I also have a gut feeling Sanchez is going to have a very good year under Kubiak. It might be tough for Lynch to break into the lineup, which is OK, because I do believe he should sit this year out unless things fall completely apart.
QFT. Our line's still a work in progress, if only because of all its new personnel, and by all accounts Lynch is talented but green. Let's not ruin his career before it even starts. There's a long list of QBs who had all the skills, but were expected to do too much too soon, so they never caught up to the game and instead spent their whole careers trying to stop doing desperate things they never should've started doing in the first place.

A SB Champ has the unique luxury of NOTHING to prove to anyone, and it's not like Sanchez is physically or mentally incapable. Let him break in our line this year, see how far that takes us, and maybe a year from now we'll have a supremely gifted starting QB who knows our playbook.

[TXBRONC]

I'm not disagreeing with Elway's decision. He's smart not to panic. It came down to a question of money however, so if they really liked Kaepernick much better than Sanchez, they would have gotten the deal done. It was doable, but the Broncos didn't want to absorb too much of Sanchez's cap hit of $15.9M this season.

Elway preferred to go with Sanchez, and a rookie who turned out to be Paxton Lynch. Since no rookie QB in the history of the NFL has EVER won a SB and since this is the defending SB champions it follows that they must rely on Sanchez.

If he fails or if the team isn't in position to make another run at the SB, then put Lynch in. Not before.

I don't think there would have been an agreement in place if Elway hadn't been seeious otherwise, he would have just been throwing away money.

[NightTerror218]

If Elway was smart he wouldnt rush Lynch out that fast if he can help it.

Elway stated in the past that it can cripple a young QB to theow them into the fire to early. It can affect them mentally even if they have all the talent in the world. He went on to say he think he was thrown in too quick as well.

Elway is GM kubiak will decide when to put lynch in. Elway might just influence the choice.

[NightTerror218]

QFT. Our line's still a work in progress, if only because of all its new personnel, and by all accounts Lynch is talented but green. Let's not ruin his career before it even starts. There's a long list of QBs who had all the skills, but were expected to do too much too soon, so they never caught up to the game and instead spent their whole careers trying to stop doing desperate things they never should've started doing in the first place.

A SB Champ has the unique luxury of NOTHING to prove to anyone, and it's not like Sanchez is physically or mentally incapable. Let him break in our line this year, see how far that takes us, and maybe a year from now we'll have a supremely gifted starting QB who knows our playbook.

Very good point about the line. They will take time to gel. Rather sanchez take that beating then lynch.

[Joel]

They said as soon as they signed Sanchez that it wasn't the last move they would make, but it gave them the luxury to not rush into anything (paraphrasing, but that was the gist of it).
It's all about the Contingamins. Even as a player Elway was rarely caught with his pants down, and those who managed it often regretted it; Cleveland painting him into a corner on The Drive just left them "right where we want them." So enjoy Houstons inept management, Oz; Arizona may have been a dry heat, but Houston in July and August is a long way from Montana, and I suspect their $72M QBs seat will get VERY "hot" by Halloween.


I agree. A lot of it might come down to whether Elway and Kubiak thing throwing a young guy into the fire, and have him learn from mistakes and possibly get benched a few times along the way, is the best way to mold a QB or if it's to let him learn with a clipboard and at least be more mentally prepared when he finally gets the starting nod.
I still contend that throwing a good young QB to the lions is the best way to ruin him by instilling bad habits and instincts that dog him his whole career. Further, I still think that's why it took so much constant effort from Shanny AND Kubes to keep Plummer from self destructing, why the whole ordeal made them all so miserable and why it ultimately proved impossible in the playoffs when we needed a team captain to lead us to a championship.

A few decades ago, rookie QBs almost NEVER started, but now there's so much money and marketing involved it's very hard to resist the urge to stick the 1st round face of the franchise out there ASAP, especially if the team's collapsing and needs a "spark" around which it can rally. But how many times has that ended well, and how many badly? For every John Elway there's a dozen David Carrs; did benching Steve Young for Testaverde save Tampa, or improve either QB?

If SBs require Joe Cool, it's a bad idea to turn one into Joe Spaz. The Boolean suggestion our struggles with Cutler prove Plummer the right choice is a false dichotomy: There's often more than just TWO options, and sometimes more than ONE right/wrong one. Just because one fails/succeeds doesn't mean there's only one alternative, and certainly doesn't mean that lone alternative would fare any differently. Elways appreciation of that won ALL our championships (remember when he ran in our first SB XXXII TD rather than throw to a wide open Griffith in the corner?)


In 2006, I liked Jay Cutler and thought he was going to be a top 10 QB in this league, so I supported the decision to bench Plummer.

Is there the slightest doubt today, 10 years later, that fans like me, and Shanahan and the Broncos were flat wrong? That team was 7-4 and in playoff contention. Putting in Cutler was a bad mistake.
I doubt that, and just because guys like Lovie Smith, Marc Trestman and John Fox haven't made a champion of Cutler doesn't prove anything: Two of those guys view offense as an afterthought and the other wasn't HC material in the first place. More importantly, Plummer had yet another flame out at the end of '05, and that final one proved unrecoverable: A year later he was out of football altogether, by his own choice.

His and David Carrs career remain two of my prime examples for why young QBs shouldn't be thrown to the lions in an offense no more ready than they are: That doesn't save the team, only doom the QB. One could even argue demanding Mile High Magic of a rookie Elway EVERY WEEK gave him bad habits to overcome before he was able to win championships; either way, he was far more successful with a team around him as he declined than with NOTHING around him in his prime.


Putting in Lynch this season would be repeating that bad mistake. NO rookie QB can ever lead a team to a SB. It's never happened and probably never will. Many NFL QBs get thrown in too early and it hurts their development. The Broncos can't afford make that mistake with Lynch. He needs to sit on the bench for a year and learn how to play in this league.
There we go.


It's not going to help the team win a championship this year to start him.
Nope, and, as you've noted, the defending champs are uniquely free of that kind of pressure. That'll only be true for a single season though, so let's make the most of it coaching up Lynch somewhere All Pro pass rushers can't break him.


Now maybe Sanchez can't get the job done. If not, then they have nothing to lose.
EXCEPT Lynchs development, which would be a big loss in any QB, but especially one with loads of physical talent but limited experienced skill.


But, until the Broncos are eliminated or it becomes obvious that Sanchez isn't good enough, they need to sit Lynch.
They probably need to sit him anyway, except for maybe 2-3 games late in the year to get his feet wet. If Sanchez implodes, all leaving him does is improve our 2017 draft position so we can add to the supporting cast that wins us another championship. Unless one DOES think our raw rookie can come in mid-season and lead us to another championship, there's very little to GAIN by starting him.

[Jsteve01]

I agree completely Julie. I've said this for a long time, but there are several guys that I think would have been much better NFL quarterbacks if they hadn't been thrown into early, and that behind shaky offensive lines. We like to think that our offensive line will produce at a much higher rate this year, but as of now we just don't know. David Carr, Tim Couch, and the list goes on

[Simple Jaded]

Holy shit, did Cugel just say he was wrong?

I'm not paying another bill cause the end is near.

[Joel]

I agree completely Julie. I've said this for a long time, but there are several guys that I think would have been much better NFL quarterbacks if they hadn't been thrown into early, and that behind shaky offensive lines. We like to think that our offensive line will produce at a much higher rate this year, but as of now we just don't know. David Carr, Tim Couch, and the list goes on
Julie? :confused: I'm hoping that's just autocorrect striking again.

[CrazyHorse]

Lynch is winning us another Super Bowl as a rookie. Heard it here first folks.

[TXBRONC]

Elway stated in the past that it can cripple a young QB to theow them into the fire to early. It can affect them mentally even if they have all the talent in the world. He went on to say he think he was thrown in too quick as well.

Elway is GM kubiak will decide when to put lynch in. Elway might just influence the choice.

Elway has also said that while his first starting experience was rough he learned a lot from it and that you can replace real game experience.

The only thing we real take from this is that if he and Kubiak think Lynch is ready they won't be afraid to pull the trigger.

[Rick]

Sanchez survived the Tebowitze, twice, don't think he will he phased by having a backup chasing him.

[TXBRONC]

Sanchez survived the Tebowitze, twice, don't think he will he phased by having a backup chasing him.

I am hoping that Elway is right in that Lynch is closer to being ready to start than most pundits think he is. If he is it should make for some terrific competition.

[Simple Jaded]

Julie? :confused: I'm hoping that's just autocorrect striking again.

You could go by Jules.

[7DnBrnc53]

His and David Carrs career remain two of my prime examples for why young QBs shouldn't be thrown to the lions in an offense no more ready than they are: That doesn't save the team, only doom the QB. One could even argue demanding Mile High Magic of a rookie Elway EVERY WEEK gave him bad habits to overcome before he was able to win championships; either way, he was far more successful with a team around him as he declined than with NOTHING around him in his prime.


Carr (like Tim Couch) are also examples of my rule: Don't draft a QB #1 if you are expansion (or expansion-like bad, and have the #1 pick) unless he is John Elway or Peyton Manning. The Texans and Browns made huge mistakes. The Browns really haven't recovered. And now, they are putting their future on RGIII and Cody Kessler? Knowing their bumbling history, don't be surprised if this blows up in their face. In 10 years, I wonder if dejected Browns fans will wonder what happened if they would have just taken Carson Wentz and Myles Jack in the first two rounds.

[Simple Jaded]

The first thing you get is a QB, it makes zero sense to wait if theres one there, you just don't throw him in the deep end until he's ready. Both Couch and Carr were coming from spread offense in college, iirc, the adjustments were always going to be hard to make and throwing them in there proved to be a mistake.

But the mistake was not drafting a QB, if you don't take a QB when he's there you could be 3 years into the build and have to trade 2 starters and 6 premium picks to finally get a player you should have already drafted.

[OrangeHoof]

If a can't-miss guy like Andrew Luck is there at 1/1, even if I am expansion, I will take him. I might make him sit a year just so he doesn't become road kill but you can't pass up a talent like that. You go FA and the draft for o-line and focus on offense so your can't miss QB comes in for year two.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

What the Titans did with Mariota last year is the right way to handle a rookie qb who has to play early.

[TXBRONC]

If a can't-miss guy like Andrew Luck is there at 1/1, even if I am expansion, I will take him. I might make him sit a year just so he doesn't become road kill but you can't pass up a talent like that. You go FA and the draft for o-line and focus on offense so your can't miss QB comes in for year two.

Absolutely, if Andrew Luck.is available you take him.

[Simple Jaded]

Even if he's not "Can't miss", you take the QBif he's there imo, Cleveland may not have another chance at a Carson Wentz for years now. I'd be pisssed.

This offseason should be all Broncos fans need to know what it's like to have a contender with no QB. Between the money Psweiler/Bradford/Cpusins got, to the massive amount of draft picks the Rams/Eagles traded. If theres a QB with the ability there you can't wait.

[dogfish]

I hope Sanchez won't pull a Favre and refuse to tutor Lynch.

he won't-- he's been around long enough to understand the business, he knows why he's here. . . you remember when he wiped a booger on mark brunell, and brunell had to stand there and take it? sanchez is brunell now, and he gets that. . .


as far as lynch goes, i would say that the guys who have the inherent mental toughness to play QB at a high level in this league should be able to survive being thrown in early-- guys like pig ben and russ wilson fight their way through it. . . not saying guys like carr and couch couldn't have done better behind solid O-lines-- but if lynch IS the guy you want to build around for a decade, then he'll be able to play through some adversity. . . hell, it didn't break cutler. . . i'd rather paxton get a couple months to at least learn some of the playbook before they put him out there, but i don't see a scenario where he would sit past this season, at the latest. . . they didn't trade up in the first to have him sitting behind a stopgap like sanchize for years. . .

[TXBRONC]

he won't-- he's been around long enough to understand the business, he knows why he's here. . . you remember when he wiped a booger on mark brunell, and brunell had to stand there and take it? sanchez is brunell now, and he gets that. . .


as far as lynch goes, i would say that the guys who have the inherent mental toughness to play QB at a high level in this league should be able to survive being thrown in early-- guys like pig ben and russ wilson fight their way through it. . . not saying guys like carr and couch couldn't have done better behind solid O-lines-- but if lynch IS the guy you want to build around for a decade, then he'll be able to play through some adversity. . . hell, it didn't break cutler. . . i'd rather paxton get a couple months to at least learn some of the playbook before they put him out there, but i don't see a scenario where he would sit past this season, at the latest. . . they didn't trade up in the first to have him sitting behind a stopgap like sanchize for years. . .

Sanchez would have to play lights out for Elway to even consider keeping him past one season. The chances of that happening seem remote. If the pundits right Sanchez will start turning the hall and Kubiak will yank him and put in Lynch.

[NightTerror218]

he won't-- he's been around long enough to understand the business, he knows why he's here. . . you remember when he wiped a booger on mark brunell, and brunell had to stand there and take it? sanchez is brunell now, and he gets that. . .


as far as lynch goes, i would say that the guys who have the inherent mental toughness to play QB at a high level in this league should be able to survive being thrown in early-- guys like pig ben and russ wilson fight their way through it. . . not saying guys like carr and couch couldn't have done better behind solid O-lines-- but if lynch IS the guy you want to build around for a decade, then he'll be able to play through some adversity. . . hell, it didn't break cutler. . . i'd rather paxton get a couple months to at least learn some of the playbook before they put him out there, but i don't see a scenario where he would sit past this season, at the latest. . . they didn't trade up in the first to have him sitting behind a stopgap like sanchize for years. . .

Wilson lit up TC and earned starter over a Flynn who is far worse then sanchez. But he also had the best running game in nfl with lynch for his first 2 years.

Lynch coyld do this to sanchez as well but i think sanchez is steonger competition then lynn.

[Joel]

You could go by Jules.
I could go by Princess Angelina Contessa Louisa Francesca Banana Fana Bo Besca III, but that's not my name either. ;)


Carr (like Tim Couch) are also examples of my rule: Don't draft a QB #1 if you are expansion (or expansion-like bad, and have the #1 pick) unless he is John Elway or Peyton Manning. The Texans and Browns made huge mistakes. The Browns really haven't recovered. And now, they are putting their future on RGIII and Cody Kessler? Knowing their bumbling history, don't be surprised if this blows up in their face. In 10 years, I wonder if dejected Browns fans will wonder what happened if they would have just taken Carson Wentz and Myles Jack in the first two rounds.
Well, yes, but in fairness to Cleveland, Remedial Pro Football Class may be helping, because they DO now have a legit LT and solid C as well, so aren't totally throwing rookie QBs to the wolves: They just need a decent offensive coach to develop their latest rookie QB before that infamous jersey starts scraping the ground.


The first thing you get is a QB, it makes zero sense to wait if theres one there, you just don't throw him in the deep end until he's ready. Both Couch and Carr were coming from spread offense in college, iirc, the adjustments were always going to be hard to make and throwing them in there proved to be a mistake.

But the mistake was not drafting a QB, if you don't take a QB when he's there you could be 3 years into the build and have to trade 2 starters and 6 premium picks to finally get a player you should have already drafted.
It's worth that to get the elite protection an awful teams rookie QB needs to merely SURVIVE, much less succeed.

Realistically, expansion teams are in the same boat as every (other) garbage team: They've got first pick of all the best talent, so "all the best talent" is EXACTLY what they should take while they can, and figure out how to use it later. But that's even more true for expansion teams, because no matter WHAT they pick, it can't make them a .500 or better team right out of the gate: They'll have more early picks to get top talent for at least another year or two, so they can build a competitive core team, fill needs later and STILL get top shelf players to fill those needs.

Houston and Clevelands management is inept, IMHO (e.g. Houston fired a coaching staff that won a SUPER BOWL the MOMENT re-hired) but I also think they were screwed at the outset. The last NFL expansion, in '95, gave new teams not only the top picks but a big expansion draft to poach EXISTING stars from existing NFL teams, who could only protect so many: Just two years later, BOTH expansion teams were in the CCGs, just a game from an all-expansion SB.

I personally think the NFL overcompensated for that in the NEXT round of expansion: Where Carolina and Jax got too much help, makingthem too good too fast while diluting all other teams, Houston and Cleveland got too little, so couldn't climb out of the cellar. Kubiak and Co. made Houston respectable despite its disadvantages, but seemingly nothing can save Cleveland, which still regularly drafts in the top five or ten over a decade after rebirth.

That's not to say Clevelands management doesn't also hobble it: They had the #1 pick of every round in 1999 AND 2000, then #3 in each round of 2001, yet all that was only enough they managed to get above .500 by the smallest possible margin (i.e. 9-7.) It doesn't help that competition's much fiercer among the AFCNs recent and potential champions than in the AFCS, where Houston's never more than a Colts QB injury from a division championship.

The bottom line is that no team can afford to prioritize need over talent when it has NO talent and more needs than a single draft can possibly fill. The only GMs who can afford a desperate QB reach are those who've 1) already covered all other bases or 2) have been so bad so long they'll be fired if they miss the playoffs again. Expansion GMs are a long way from either situation.

[Simple Jaded]

I wish my name was Jules.

[Simple Jaded]

Sanchez would have to play lights out for Elway to even consider keeping him past one season. The chances of that happening seem remote. If the pundits right Sanchez will start turning the hall and Kubiak will yank him and put in Lynch.

We need Sanchez to rock out with his **** out and sign a huge contract.

[Joel]

I wish my name was Jules.
You can be Vincent: I'm a BAMF and you get shot. :)

[Simple Jaded]

You can be Vincent: I'm a BAMF and you get shot. :)

**** that, I shit too much to be Vincent, bad things happen.

[TXBRONC]

I wish my name was Jules.

You can change it to Jules Verne.

[Poet]

**** that, I shit too much to be Vincent, bad things happen.

Take the damned thing with you when you're shitting.

[OrangeHoof]

Even if he's not "Can't miss", you take the QBif he's there imo, Cleveland may not have another chance at a Carson Wentz for years now. I'd be pisssed.

This offseason should be all Broncos fans need to know what it's like to have a contender with no QB. Between the money Psweiler/Bradford/Cpusins got, to the massive amount of draft picks the Rams/Eagles traded. If theres a QB with the ability there you can't wait.

Makes you feel really good to be Super Bowl champs and spending just a third to move up and get Lynch.

[G_Money]

Makes you feel really good to be Super Bowl champs and spending just a third to move up and get Lynch.

Osweiler gets us back a third next year. The "move up" was offset by losing Oz in the first place. If Lynch works out it was an absolute steal - wandering around in the desert without a useful QB is a horrible place to be.

And if it doesn't work out, we didn't blow all our draft capital for 2 or 3 years so our team should still be really strong when we go looking for another QB. We're doin' fine.

[Joel]

Take the damned thing with you when you're shitting.
That's what I keep thinking. I mean, OK, you break into a guys house to murder him, he's gone, you need to take a massive dump, so you use his bathroom: We've all been there, right? But why not take the gun along so you're not literally caught with your pants down, ESPECIALLY since you don't know where the guy is. I dunno; heroin addiction, dancing his boss' wife despite knowing he KILLED a guy out of jealousy, then TWO bathroom incidents... sounds like a man tired of livin'.

[TXBRONC]

Makes you feel really good to be Super Bowl champs and spending just a third to move up and get Lynch.

It sure does.

[TXBRONC]

Osweiler gets us back a third next year. The "move up" was offset by losing Oz in the first place. If Lynch works out it was an absolute steal - wandering around in the desert without a useful QB is a horrible place to be.

And if it doesn't work out, we didn't blow all our draft capital for 2 or 3 years so our team should still be really strong when we go looking for another QB. We're doin' fine.

The Bleacher Report was critical of Elway over the move up because he didn't pay Osweiler. I liked Osweiler but Elway was wise not to pay Osweiler that much. Second, the guy acted like Elway had moved up 10 spots and had given away the farm to draft Lynch. The move to get Lynch was handled masterfully.

[OrangeHoof]

Bleacher Report is terrible. If it made them mad, just makes me even happier and more confident it was the right call.

[TXBRONC]

Bleacher Report is terrible. If it made them mad, just makes me even happier and more confident it was the right call.

It was clear he's doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground.

[G_Money]

I didn't mind Bleacher Report being mostly terrible when they were just random bloggers. Some bloggers were good, most were bad, but nobody tried to claim that writing for BR made you an authority on anything other than providing free copy for the company.

Now? They're supposedly "real" journalists. They have a Sirius radio broadcast. Why are they still so terrible?

~G

[OrangeHoof]

I know a friend that used to write for Bleacher Report and they were all about page views. The writers were assigned stories to write and they were often total nonsense but they attracted eyeballs (i.e) "Lombardi Trophy In Hand, Why Elway Should Quit Now" and they were famous for "list" columns that were no more than slideshows where you had to keep clicking page after page to see the entire list. "Top 10 Running Backs In Broncos History" where you had to click 10 pages to see the whole slideshow.

My friend got out because they were only interested in making you click as many pages as possible and any articles they had were mostly wild speculation and not sourced.

[TXBRONC]

I know a friend that used to write for Bleacher Report and they were all about page views. The writers were assigned stories to write and they were often total nonsense but they attracted eyeballs (i.e) "Lombardi Trophy In Hand, Why Elway Should Quit Now" and they were famous for "list" columns that were no more than slideshows where you had to keep clicking page after page to see the entire list. "Top 10 Running Backs In Broncos History" where you had to click 10 pages to see the whole slideshow.

My friend got out because they were only interested in making you click as many pages as possible and any articles they had were mostly wild speculation and not sourced.

At any rate, Elway has done a fantastic job. Things did not workout to keep Osweiler but Elway didn't panick and got a quarterback that may end up being better than Osweiler.

[Cugel]

I don't know how you can praise Elway for the way he handled the Osweiler situation. He let Osweiler get to FA instead of re-signing him last off-season for a lot less than he finally offered, then offered him $16m a year. That's way too much for a guy who has a modest upside, and only started seven games.

NOBODY with any sense could fault Elway for refusing to give Osweiler a $37M guaranteed contract, 4 years, $72 M. That's just flat totally insane.

Elway got lucky that Osweiler walked because Paxton Lynch has a much better upside than Osweiler. Lynch might not be ready this season, but long term I'd much rather have him. As the Texans will soon find out.

They panicked because they didn't have a QB. As it turned out, they should have saved their money, and drafted Lynch with their #1 pick. Elway is now spending less than $3M a year for his starting QB instead of $16M. That should make it possible to lock up a lot of his FAs over the next 4 years.

That is exactly what the Seahawks did. Because Russell Wilson was making less than $1M a year, they were able to re-sign: Richard Sherman, Earl Thomas, Michael Bennett, Bobby Wagner, Kam Chancellor, Cliff Avril and KJ Wright. They didn't lose anybody!

Consequently they are currently the Vegas favorite to go to the SB from the NFC.

[OrangeHoof]

You lost me. The Seahawks are now losing people because Wilson is getting fully paid.

But I agree with you. Elway should have signed Ossie earlier for around $8 mi and then the Texans could have drafted Lynch.

[Ravage!!!]

We don't know if Os would have simply signed a 'cheap' contract when he KNEW he was going to hit FA. It's not like players are 'shocked' to suddenly hit the FA market when their contract ends.

[Poet]

We don't know if Os would have simply signed a 'cheap' contract when he KNEW he was going to hit FA. It's not like players are 'shocked' to suddenly hit the FA market when their contract ends.

Especially since Brock clearly had issues with being in Denver because of the shadows. :lol:

[DenBronx]

Imo this couldn't have ended any better than it did. I was never all that high on Oz like most here were. Lynch seems to have way more upside than Oz does and comes across as more of a locker room and humble dude. That alone will go along way in building a leadership role with the team.

And the team can then spend most of the cap to keep this defense together.

[Joel]

It boils down to whether one expects a LOT more from Oz than Lynch. Extending him was never an option unless we cut Manning at the same time (or left ourselves in the same boat SF's in with Kaep) and we wouldn't have our first Championship in 20 years if we'd done that.

So if Oz returns more bang for the buck than Lynch, we should've made our own $72M offer and hope he wasn't pissed at us anymore. But that's a LOT of bang; even if Lynch busts, we won't lose much more than what was practically a high 2nd round pick. Much better than blowing up our cap with a bust QB so we can't sign ANYONE.

[Timmy!]

I don't know how you can praise Elway for the way he handled the Osweiler situation. He let Osweiler get to FA instead of re-signing him last off-season for a lot less than he finally offered, then offered him $16m a year. That's way too much for a guy who has a modest upside, and only started seven games.

https://i.imgflip.com/a2gvk.jpg

[OrangeHoof]

I'm delighted we wound up with Lynch but it was a high-wire act to get there. I would presume the Broncos would have wanted continuity coming off a Super Bowl year and Oz would have given them that. Now, the defending champions will have to win with either Mark Sanchez or a rookie at quarterback and I'll bet most of you back in February would have recoiled in horror at the thought. Now, it's reality and it may cost Denver a repeat of the Lombardi Trophy but it might, instead, mean more titles in the late teens or early 2020s when Lynch comes into his own.

[Davii]

We don't know if Os would have simply signed a 'cheap' contract when he KNEW he was going to hit FA. It's not like players are 'shocked' to suddenly hit the FA market when their contract ends.

You didn't know? We could have signed Brock for life in 2005 for 100k and a cookie.

[NightTerror218]

We don't know if Os would have simply signed a 'cheap' contract when he KNEW he was going to hit FA. It's not like players are 'shocked' to suddenly hit the FA market when their contract ends.

I dont he would have signed any contract before FA. No chance to start and show potential. Hard to sign with that never gave you a shot for 4 yrs.

[FanInAZ]

The Seahawks are now losing people because Wilson is getting fully paid.

Don't forget about Flacco becoming the highest paid player in the NFL after his D & Ray Rice carrying him to a SB championship. The next you know, his #1 WR becomes a cap salary & the Ravens go from SB champs to 8-8 over night.

[Joel]

It's a moot point anyway, because we weren't about to cut Manning this time last year, shoving Kubiak into his first season with a QB who had NO pro starts (instead of, y'know, the GoAT.) So the only change would be Oz feeling even MORE entitled to the job thanks to the extension: We'd still ride Manning till he got hurt, then again when Oz got hurt and "we needed a spark,' so Oz would want out even MORE, but be under contract:

Just like a junior version of Kaep with a commensurate contract over our heads.

Screw him; he wasn't all that hot when he was starting (though, again, a lot of that's on the line) and if getting a Ring with just half a dozen pro starts bothers him that much, let him enjoy his victory lap in Houston while he can. He's joined Tebow and Cutler on the list of Might've Beens No Longer Relevant to Broncos Reality.

[TXBRONC]

This doesn't sound like Sanchez is locked in as the starter.


Mark Sanchez, wearing a soft cast on his left thumb, second-year player Trevor Siemian and rookie Paxton Lynch shared repetitions. With Sanchez not taking snaps under center as a concession to his injury, Siemian ran the first team. Lynch received plenty of reps. No one draws conclusions in May, especially not Broncos coach Gary Kubiak, who is keeping an open mind and an open race at quarterback.

http://www.denverpost.com/2016/05/24/mark-sanchez-trevor-siemian-paxton-lynch-start-broncos-quarterback-competition/

[Ravage!!!]

Nah.. Mark right now is easily the starter. Until Lynch can prove he's more of an asset than a liability on the field. Siemian isn't even in the race and is purely taking the first snaps due to the fact he's been on the team longer. They always have to have the "best man on the field" mantra, and I'm sure they mean it. But Sanchez, right now, is the best for the starting role ... IF the season were starting tomorrow.

[BroncoWave]

Nah.. Mark right now is easily the starter. Until Lynch can prove he's more of an asset than a liability on the field. Siemian isn't even in the race and is purely taking the first snaps due to the fact he's been on the team longer. They always have to have the "best man on the field" mantra, and I'm sure they mean it. But Sanchez, right now, is the best for the starting role ... IF the season were starting tomorrow.

No one is saying Sanchez wouldn't be the starter tomorrow. That's not even the discussion going on.

[Davii]

This doesn't sound like Sanchez is locked in as the starter.

I hope not. I mean, it seems a key part of Kubiak's philosophy is the best players play, get the young guys plenty of experience, etc. "Locking" anyone beyond a ROF worthy, perennial pro-bowler would be foolish. Fight it out!

[TXBRONC]

Nah.. Mark right now is easily the starter. Until Lynch can prove he's more of an asset than a liability on the field. Siemian isn't even in the race and is purely taking the first snaps due to the fact he's been on the team longer. They always have to have the "best man on the field" mantra, and I'm sure they mean it. But Sanchez, right now, is the best for the starting role ... IF the season were starting tomorrow.

But the season isn't starting tomorrow, and if Lynch is ready by the end of camp/preseason he's more than likely going to start. We get to the start of the season and Lynch isn't ready then Sanchez starts. But I still count that as necessarily the end of it. Sanchez might start the season but he not finish the season even if healthy.

[Davii]

But the season isn't starting tomorrow, and if Lynch is ready by the end of camp/preseason he's more than likely going to start. We get to the start of the season and Lynch isn't ready then Sanchez starts. But I still count that as necessarily the end of it. Sanchez might start the season but he not finish the season even if healthy.

Define "ready". I don't think there's any chance, barring injury, that Lynch is the game 1 starter.

[TXBRONC]

Define "ready". I don't think there's any chance, barring injury, that Lynch is the game 1 starter.

"Ready" is that run the offense competently and confidently. What do others think "ready" means he has know the offensive inside and out?

[Ravage!!!]

Define "ready". I don't think there's any chance, barring injury, that Lynch is the game 1 starter.

I agree with this. I think it's 'definite' that Sanchez is the game 1 starter (barring injury as you stated). So I get that the coaches are going to say that it's "open competition"...but right now I don't think it is. Sanchez is the guy we start the season with.

[BroncoWave]

I agree with this. I think it's 'definite' that Sanchez is the game 1 starter (barring injury as you stated). So I get that the coaches are going to say that it's "open competition"...but right now I don't think it is. Sanchez is the guy we start the season with.

I agree that Sanchez probably will start week 1, but I never underestimate the itch coaches usually have to get their shiny new first round pick QBs on the field as soon as possible. I don't think Denver ever intended on Sanchez being the starter when they initially signed him, and I think Kubes will give Lynch every chance to earn the job. That doesn't mean he will earn it and start week 1, but I think Kubes will legitimately let him compete for it.

[TXBRONC]

I agree with this. I think it's 'definite' that Sanchez is the game 1 starter (barring injury as you stated). So I get that the coaches are going to say that it's "open competition"...but right now I don't think it is. Sanchez is the guy we start the season with.

I think it's more probable than not at this point. But I don't think it's definite lock. Kubiak doesn't have to call it an open competition if it isn't.

[TXBRONC]

He's going have earn it.

The from Kiszla,and know he's a putz most of the time but he is right in this regard:


It’s far too early to issue a guarantee Lynch will beat out Sanchez or Siemian on the Denver depth chart. If Lynch wants to be the starting quarterback for the Broncos as a rookie, it won’t be because he’s a No. 1 draft pick. Lynch will have to earn the job.

http://www.denverpost.com/2016/05/24/kiszla-paxton-lynchs-wristband-reminds-rookie-how-he-can-start-for-broncos/

[WARHORSE]

Ready means he gives us the best chance to win.

[Ravage!!!]

I think it's more probable than not at this point. But I don't think it's definite lock. Kubiak doesn't have to call it an open competition if it isn't.

Doesn't 'have' to, but I think he feels obligated to. ESPECIALLY to the media. It's something that fans think they want...and especially with a freshly drafted 1st round QB on the roster.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

"With Brock Osweiler making the mistake of his football life." :lol:

[dogfish]

will be interesting to see how it plays out. . . one good thing about kubes' offense is that it can be tailored to minimize QB weaknesses-- it's not like we need lynch to fit into a mike martz system or something. . . it probably does depend on sanchez to some degree-- they won't throw paxton into the fire, that's why they got sanchize. . . IF he's the starter and we're winning games, they probably won't be in a hurry with lynch. . . if we start slow, i think we could very well see the kid before mid-season, though-- they're not going to lose games with a limited QB, when they could be developing the guy with the monster upside. . .

either way, it's a real luxury knowing we have guys in place who can and will make the right decisions based on what's best for this football team. . . we don't have squirelly ownership putting pressure on the coaches or FO to do dumb shit for PR purposes, or a coach or GM who's scrambling to keep his job. . . our guys are secure in their positions, and that's a real advantage for a team that wants to build long term, and understands how. . .

[Simple Jaded]

Ready means he gives us the best chance to win.

Actually, he could give them the best chance to win and NOT be ready, that's a pleasant thought.

[TXBRONC]

Ready means he gives us the best chance to win.

It goes hand in hand with being competent in running the offense.

[TXBRONC]

"With Brock Osweiler making the mistake of his football life." :lol:

Funny but true.

[TXBRONC]

Just so you guys didn't think I was making this up here is something Elway said about starting in his rookie season:


In reflecting on his rookie season, Elway once told me “it was good that I started. Nothing makes up for experience.’’

http://www.denverpost.com/2016/05/27/paige-broncos-find-themselves-in-yet-another-quarterback-controversy/

[OrangeHoof]

There were people in 1983 who thought Steve Deberg should start. Just ignore the noise.

[TXBRONC]

There were people in 1983 who thought Steve Deberg should start. Just ignore the noise.

I know it's clique but things will work out the way the y work out. I don't think we should just arbitrarily dismiss the idea of him starting sometime this season because it could ruin him. There are several examples of rookie quarterbacks starting immediately and having success.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

There were people in 1983 who thought Steve Deberg should start. Just ignore the noise.

Sanchez is a better player than DeBerg was.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I know it's clique but things will work out the way the y work out. I don't think we should just arbitrarily dismiss the idea of him starting sometime this season because it could ruin him. There are several examples of rookie quarterbacks starting immediately and having success.

That's true, and the best way to start a rookie qb is to give him a limited play book, a good running game, and a good defense. We should be able to do all of that.

[Poet]

I'm really just looking forward to watching this situation develop. I'll leave the predictions I had aside and just look forward to it.

[Ravage!!!]

Sanchez is a better player than DeBerg was.

I disagree with this statement.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I disagree with this statement.

I remember a noodle arm.

[OrangeHoof]

Noodleberg was 4-1 as a starter in 1983 with Denver...

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Noodleberg was 4-1 as a starter in 1983 with Denver...

That's not necessarily a reflection of a good quarterback. Some of the stars from the orange crush were on that team. They also won a lot of games with a rookie who played very poorly.

[Simple Jaded]

I remember a noodle arm.

I remember a something sticking out of his nasty ass finger after he broke it.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I remember a something sticking out of his nasty ass finger after he broke it.

I don't remember that. I do remember a goose egg against a hapless Baltimore team for over 3 quarters.

[Simple Jaded]

I don't remember that. I do remember a goose egg against a hapless Baltimore team for over 3 quarters.

That seems out of the ordinary for a juggernaut like Steve Deberg.

[Joel]

I know it's clique but things will work out the way the y work out. I don't think we should just arbitrarily dismiss the idea of him starting sometime this season because it could ruin him. There are several examples of rookie quarterbacks starting immediately and having success.
There are far more examples of ubertalented rookie QBs busting because asked to do too much too soon with too little support, until so permanently traumatized they spent the rest of their tragic careers either scared of their own shadow or desperately forcing Hail Maries into double coverage out of sheer necessity—even long after the rest of the team improved enough to eliminate the necessity that remained a habit.

It may be heresy, but forcing a green QB to be one-man offense because the team had NOTHING else even created some bad and lingering habits in St. Elway himself. That's not a slam; the same thing happened to Marino for similar reasons: Few rookies have the luxury of being immediately surrounded by a locker room full of HoFers like Montana and Steve Young did (and yes, that's HIGHLY relavent to each QBs legacy, or does anyone really think Bradshaws far better SB record—even including head-to-heads—proves him far better than Staubach or Tarkenton?)

Lynch won't be ready sooner than I think: I just hope we resist the urge to force him into action anyway. Unless given something like the elite D, solid run/pass blocking line and Beast Mode RB Russell Wilson had, starting a rookie QB tends to run the gamut from VY to Cam (the second of which could easily end up playing as many SBs as Marino did, and be lucky to fare as well.)

[Valar Morghulis]

I remember a noodle arm.

How dare you talk about Peyton like that

[Simple Jaded]

Dan Marino hit the ground running as a rookie, drafted by a playoff team and made the ******* Pro Bowl when it actually meant something. Dude set records right off the bat, what bad habits and what "one man show" are you talking about Joel's?

[TXBRONC]

Dan Marino hit the ground running as a rookie, drafted by a playoff team and made the ******* Pro Bowl when it actually meant something. Dude set records right off the bat, what bad habits and what "one man show" are you talking about Joel's?

I'm pretty sure if Lynch starts he wouldn't have to be a "one man show".

[Simple Jaded]

I'm pretty if Lynch starts he wouldn't have to be a "one man show".

Especially if we include defense, if any team knows how to play when their QB is the weak link it's the Denver Broncos.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Especially if we include defense, if any team knows how to play when their QB is the weak link it's the Denver Broncos.

Haha, no kidding.

[TXBRONC]

There are far more examples of ubertalented rookie QBs busting because asked to do too much too soon with too little support, until so permanently traumatized they spent the rest of their tragic careers either scared of their own shadow or desperately forcing Hail Maries into double coverage out of sheer necessity—even long after the rest of the team improved enough to eliminate the necessity that remained a habit.

It may be heresy, but forcing a green QB to be one-man offense because the team had NOTHING else even created some bad and lingering habits in St. Elway himself. That's not a slam; the same thing happened to Marino for similar reasons: Few rookies have the luxury of being immediately surrounded by a locker room full of HoFers like Montana and Steve Young did (and yes, that's HIGHLY relavent to each QBs legacy, or does anyone really think Bradshaws far better SB record—even including head-to-heads—[COLOR=#FFFFFF]proves him far better than Staubach or Tarkenton?)

Lynch won't be ready sooner than I think: I just hope we resist the urge to force him into action anyway. Unless given something like the elite D, solid run/pass blocking line and Beast Mode RB Russell Wilson had, starting a rookie QB tends to run the gamut from VY to Cam (the second of which could easily end up playing as many SBs as Marino did, and be lucky to fare as well.)

Joel, Elway and Kubiak have a much better idea of what they are dealing with than anyone on this board does. One of the points I've made is that it is possible that Lynch could start that's all. It's obvious that you can find some quarterbacks were thrown in to soon but many times those teams were bad to begin with.

Where do you get the idea that Lynch would have to carry the offense and, you are saying that Denver doesn't elite defense? If you are, then you missed all off to 2015 season which culminated in winning Super Bowl 50. Denver's needs to more consistent in running the ball, and it should improve with upgrades on the line. Whomever the starting quarterback is will have some very good weapons to throw too. If it Lynch is starting at any point in the season he won't be throwing the ball all over the freaking yard. Should Lynch end up being the starter it would look a like how Ravens handled having Flacco start.

[Cugel]

Lynch will be the starter by week 7 unless Sanchez is playing near an all pro level. I think he will be good, but not spectacular and even if we have a winning record he will be benched. We have seen this before with Plummer and Cutler and that is how it will play out. Sanchez can put up slightly better numbers than Manning did last year but Lynch offers more promise and possibilities and will lead us in the back half of the season.

It was widely regarded as a big mistake to bench Plummer and put in Cutler. Kubiak will be forcefully reminded of that if he does the same thing.

So, it comes down to record. If the Broncos are winning and in contention, there is no reason to make a switch this season. If not, and if Lynch shows he can handle the offense, then expect him to start sometime this year.

But, Elway cannot have forgotten that he said he was not ready to start in mid-season back in 1983, his rookie year. That was the year he came in, in relief of Steve DeBerg in game 4 - and proceeded to line up behind the G. The C just turned around and looked at him. Talk about a rough start! He was 1 of 8 passing that game for 14 yards and an INT.

Hall of Fame QB, maybe the best of all-time, SB MVP - he wasn't ready his rookie season when they threw him in. He said this himself back in '86-'87.

[TXBRONC]

It was widely regarded as a big mistake to bench Plummer and put in Cutler. Kubiak will be forcefully reminded of that if he does the same thing.

So, it comes down to record. If the Broncos are winning and in contention, there is no reason to make a switch this season. If not, and if Lynch shows he can handle the offense, then expect him to start sometime this year.

But, Elway cannot have forgotten that he said he was not ready to start in mid-season back in 1983, his rookie year. That was the year he came in, in relief of Steve DeBerg in game 4 - and proceeded to line up behind the G. The C just turned around and looked at him. Talk about a rough start! He was 1 of 8 passing that game for 14 yards and an INT.

Hall of Fame QB, maybe the best of all-time, SB MVP - he wasn't ready his rookie season when they threw him in. He said this himself back in '86-'87.

There is a huge difference. Sanchez is not established as the starter. Now I have said myself that if Sanchez is the starter and play well and the team Kubiak will be hard pressed to replace him. Elway opened as the starter in 1983 and went 1-8 against the Steelers. He would play two or three more games before he was replaced by DeBerg. It was in one of those starts that Elway lined behind the guard. When DeBerg got hurt Elway went back in and played a lot better in fact, he went 2-2. I don't remember him saying himself he wasn't ready back in '86-'87. I do however know he has said you can't replace actual experience or somthing to that effect. I have that quoted in an article that I've posted in this thread.

Right now I would guess Sanchez is the odds on favorite to at the very least be the starting quarterback at the beginning of season.

[Joel]

Dan Marino hit the ground running as a rookie
Interesting choice of phrase, since Miami's RUNNING game was mediocre (16th in yds/att) Marinos rookie year, and steadily got WORSE every year except '86 and '87: Guess who filled that offensive void. Hint: Marinos 48 TDs his second season was such a jaw-droppingly high number most people were certain it never would nor even COULD be broken, and until Manning came along AND passing rules were liberalized they were right.


drafted by a playoff team and made the ******* Pro Bowl when it actually meant something. Dude set records right off the bat, what bad habits and what "one man show" are you talking about Joel's?
The bad habit of BEING a one-man show because that playoff team had NO other offensive weapons. The same way as Elway and countless other QBs before and since. Getting drafted by a SB team doesn't change that, because 1) the '82 Dolphins reached the playoffs and SB wtih a 7-2 record in a strike year 2) those were their ONLY playoff wins between the '73 season and drafting Marino a decade later (even the OILERS beat them!) and 3) by the time they drafted Marino they'd already lost the one-two RB punch that got them a legitimate 1981 playoff berth (where they immediately lost at home to Fouts' Chargers.)


Especially if we include defense, if any team knows how to play when their QB is the weak link it's the Denver Broncos.
Yes, but whether Lynch or any QB must be a one-man OFFENSE obviously doesn't include any of the DEFENSE. Or did you forget how hard last season was for the GoAT QB even though he had one of the ALL-TIME GREAT DEFENSES? Hopefully the line'll be good enough Lynch isn't running for his life and CJ limping for his, but if not, does anyone honestly expect a raw rookie to do any better that a first ballot HoFer and his 4th-year backup?


Joel, Elway and Kubiak have a much better idea of what they are dealing with than anyone on this board does. One of the points I've made is that it is possible that Lynch could start that's all. It's obvious that you can find some quarterbacks were thrown in to soon but many times those teams were bad to begin with.
Fair enough as far as it goes: I don't dispute Lynch could be FORCED to start if Sanchez is hurt or just flat sucks, but do hope it doesn't come to that. Because it's HIGHLY unlikely he'll be "ready" any time this season, and if Elway and Kubiak didn't have their every word on the subject broadcast nationally they'd probably be the first to say so.


Where do you get the idea that Lynch would have to carry the offense and, you are saying that Denver doesn't elite defense? If you are, then you missed all off to 2015 season which culminated in winning Super Bowl 50. Denver's needs to more consistent in running the ball, and it should improve with upgrades on the line. Whomever the starting quarterback is will have some very good weapons to throw too. If it Lynch is starting at any point in the season he won't be throwing the ball all over the freaking yard. Should Lynch end up being the starter it would look a like how Ravens handled having Flacco start.
No, I'm not saying Denver doesn't have elite defense: I'm saying elite defense can't carry an offense. We were very fortunate to have a QB as smart and experienced as Manning last year, because that elite D of ours proved what happens when even the most physically gifted QB finds his receivers blanketed, his RBs stuffed and his protection non-existent. And Seattle used Manning as a punching bag to prove the same thing the year we smashed all the offensive records but didn't even have a FIRST DOWN till halfway through the SECOND quarter of the SB, and only avoided a SHUTOUT with a single score on the final play of the 3rd qtr.

I agree the line should be better (both in the sense of what I expect and what coaches are paid to produce,) but KNOW it MUST (both in the sense that it could hardly get worse and that Sanchez, Lynch or ANY QB is toast if it's not.) Add to my list of agreements and hopes that IF Lynch ever starts he'll be on a short leash. But if CJ's tired/hurt, Hillman's still a featherweight and the new guy's no improvement, while DTs dropsy continues without the benefit of a Daniels safety valve:

What will we do for offense then? Send Von and Ware on goal line plunges while Harris, Roby and Talib catch passes? Maybe get Sly and Wolfe to block? Our D's legit, and the players it's lost aren't nearly as critical as most people seem to think, but does anyone want to spend another whole season hoping it's good enough to score more points than it allows? I think we both know Elway and Kubiaks idea of THAT. ;)

[Joel]

There is a huge difference. Sanchez is not established as the starter. Now I have said myself that if Sanchez is the starter and play well and the team Kubiak will be hard pressed to replace him. Elway opened as the starter in 1983 and went 1-8 against the Steelers. He would play two or three more games before he was replaced by DeBerg. It was in one of those starts that Elway lined behind the guard. When DeBerg got hurt Elway went back in and played a lot better in fact, he went 2-2. I don't remember him saying himself he wasn't ready back in '86-'87. I do however know he has said you can't replace actual experience or somthing to that effect. I have that quoted in an article that I've posted in this thread.

Right now I would guess Sanchez is the odds on favorite to at the very least be the starting quarterback at the beginning of season.
Funny how that works: Elway was elite at EVERYTHING QBs do AND had a great D, but all it got him was 3 SB blowouts. The weird thing is how bringing that up always results in people praising Sammy Winder, Steve Sewell and the Three Amigos while downplaying Karl Mecklenburg, Simon Fletcher, Dennis Smith, Louis Wright, Tom Jackson. Yet how many of the first five are in the Ring of Fame, and how many of the other five?

[Simple Jaded]

Duper and Clayton say hi.

It's literally pointless to argue with you Joel, you live in your own reality.

[TXBRONC]

Funny how that works: Elway was elite at EVERYTHING QBs do AND had a great D, but all it got him was 3 SB blowouts. The weird thing is how bringing that up always results in people praising Sammy Winder, Steve Sewell and the Three Amigos while downplaying Karl Mecklenburg, Simon Fletcher, Dennis Smith, Louis Wright, Tom Jackson. Yet how many of the first five are in the Ring of Fame, and how many of the other five?

There is no way you actually ever watched the Broncos play. Denver didn't have an elite defense the first three times Elway lead the team to Super Bowl. Elway a descent receiving corps until McCaffery and Smith joined Sharpe. You are full crap, Winder and the Three Amigo never got praise than Mecklenberg, Smith, Atwater, etc.

[TXBRONC]

Duper and Clayton say hi.

It's literally pointless to argue with you Joel, you live in your own reality.

I know, that's why I don't respond to him most of the time.

[TXBRONC]

I though you all might like be interested in what Plummer has say about the quarterback situation. He doesn't endorse anyone but his observations are still interesting.


“Just from watching, it’s real hard cause so much goes into a battle like that,” Plummer said, “but right now it looks like all three are very highly capable of running the system. It’s just a matter of who runs it the most efficiently and can lead the guys the right way. That’s what it’s gonna come down to. I think all three of them could get it done.”

http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Jake-Plummer-weighs-in-on-Broncos-QB-competition/7a1aff24-27bc-4a89-9b45-dd200de94d24

[BroncoWave]

So basically Plummer's take is "Anyone could win the job, just depends on who plays the best!"

Really hard-hitting, in-depth take by the Snake there! :D

[BroncoJoe]

So basically Plummer's take is "Anyone could win the job, just depends on who plays the best!"

Really hard-hitting, in-depth take by the Snake there! :D

I still love the Snake!

[TXBRONC]

I still love the Snake!

I put the link in here because who liked Plummer and figured they might read what he had to say about our current situation.

[BroncoWave]

I put the link in here because who liked Plummer and figured they might read what he had to say about our current situation.

I just thought it was funny that he really said nothing. Like Joe, I still love the Snake though, so it is nice to hear his input.

[Northman]

I still love the Snake!

Oh, you love snake alright but its got nothing to do with Jake. :laugh:

[Poet]

Presume Sanchez is the starter: How long is his leash? Presume Lynch is the starter: How long is his leash?

[Northman]

All dependent on how he plays and what the record is. If we start 0-4 and he has thrown 12 Ints than suffice to say we give someone else a shot to try and get some wins. If the Broncos are 0-4 and its problems with the defense or other areas of the team than im not sure he gets pulled if he is playing well enough.

[BroncoWave]

Presume Sanchez is the starter: How long is his leash? Presume Lynch is the starter: How long is his leash?

I think Lynch would have a much longer leash, because once you put the star rookie in, there is usually no turning back. If Lynch did win the job, he would have to suck at a Ryan Leaf or Jamarcus Russell level to get pulled IMO.

Sanchez will have a leash as long as we win if he is the starter, IMO. I don't see them pulling a Jake Plummer move on him where we are winning and we pull him, but if we start losing, I would expect to see Lynch quickly.

[Joel]

Duper and Clayton say hi.
They don't say they're RBs, because they're not. "Miami wasn't a pass-only offense: They had great WRs too!" O...K.... :confused:


It's literally pointless to argue with you Joel, you live in your own reality.
Nope, I live in the same reality as everyone NOT living with orange-colored glasses. It's not as fun, but far more reliable.


There is no way you actually ever watched the Broncos play. Denver didn't have an elite defense the first three times Elway lead the team to Super Bowl. Elway a descent receiving corps until McCaffery and Smith joined Sharpe. You are full crap, Winder and the Three Amigo never got praise than Mecklenberg, Smith, Atwater, etc.
So we put a half dozen NON-elite defenders into the Ring of Fame? Guess they let in anyone now: Just no one from those OFFENSES—except the ONLY offensive star Denver had. Not that he was a one-man offense, just the ONLY offensive player from those teams in the Ring of Fame with half a dozen defensive teammates.

[JPPT1974]

I think Sanchez will start but if he loses games, Paxton will take over for the remaining of the year. It all depends on how Sanchez starts.

[Joel]

Presume Sanchez is the starter: How long is his leash? Presume Lynch is the starter: How long is his leash?
Interesting question, but Wave may have the best perspective: If Sanchez is the "starting starter" we've got a better and easier fall back position than if we open the season with Lynch, he proves unready and we tell Sanchez "we're gonna let you play after all" while #UnitedinOrange loudly complains we didn't give their shiny new toy a real chance to show what he can do.

I'd also expect Sanchez to have a longer leash as Opening Day starter because he's more of a known quantity, so it's easier to dismiss one or two bad games as an aberration. That's just my own perspective though; one could also argue Lynch would have a longer leash because he has more room for improvement, so there'd be more reason to think he'd get better after one or two bad games right out of the gate.

However, my personal view (FWIW) is that guaranteed dependability will be huge. Sanchez may do Mark Sanchez Things (and will probably be a spectator by October if they become a pattern) but we don't even know what Paxton Lynch Things ARE yet. The coaches obviously have a better view, better judgement and more data than we, but unless Sanchez is pretty bad pretty long I doubt they throw Lynch out there expecting him to win games before he even has his union card.

Another X Factor: How much (if any) has the line improved? If the answer's "not much," I'd rather risk a serious injury to a journeyman single-year rental than the franchise QB. The vet has less anxiety to start with, and we don't want to teach Lynch that STARK PANIC is his signature. Everyone from Elway to Manning calls reliable running a young QBs best friend, followed closely by dependable safety valve receivers: Can we provide those, or would Lynch be friendless, alone and surrounded by hostile defenders? Sanchez will be harder to break (if only because Rex Ryan already did it) and doing so would be FAR less costly than breaking Lynch.

[TXBRONC]

I think Lynch would have a much longer leash, because once you put the star rookie in, there is usually no turning back. If Lynch did win the job, he would have to suck at a Ryan Leaf or Jamarcus Russell level to get pulled IMO.

Sanchez will have a leash as long as we win if he is the starter, IMO. I don't see them pulling a Jake Plummer move on him where we are winning and we pull him, but if we start losing, I would expect to see Lynch quickly.
There is big difference between being veteran quarterback who had already been with team three plus years and one has no history with team. I think the team could be winning and Sanchez still get pulled if he's not playing well.

[OrangeHoof]

First of all, Kubiak and Elway have their rings. They have the credibility not to be second-guessed on every decision. I will give two former QBs with the highest levels of experience the benefit of the doubt on if/when to switch quarterbacks, assuming injuries don't make that decision sooner.

I think command and leadership will also be important in deciding when to make a switch. Lynch has to show he has command and respect of the huddle and the teammates believe he can win them games.

[TXBRONC]

First of all, Kubiak and Elway have their rings. They have the credibility not to be second-guessed on every decision. I will give two former QBs with the highest levels of experience the benefit of the doubt on if/when to switch quarterbacks, assuming injuries don't make that decision sooner.

I think command and leadership will also be important in deciding when to make a switch. Lynch has to show he has command and respect of the huddle and the teammates believe he can win them games.

Agreed.

[Simple Jaded]

They don't say they're RBs, because they're not. "Miami wasn't a pass-only offense: They had great WRs too!" O...K.... :confused:


Nope, I live in the same reality as everyone NOT living with orange-colored glasses. It's not as fun, but far more reliable.


So we put a half dozen NON-elite defenders into the Ring of Fame? Guess they let in anyone now: Just no one from those OFFENSES—except the ONLY offensive star Denver had. Not that he was a one-man offense, just the ONLY offensive player from those teams in the Ring of Fame with half a dozen defensive teammates.

Except we're not arguing about the Broncos this time, wtf does the color of my glasses matter?

The point is, if someone says water is wet you'd launch a dissertation trying to prove either how we're wrong or that the water is wrong for being wet, all without actually saying anything whatsoever. Only to show off the big brain on Joel.

Btw, you said Marino was a one-man show, I brought up two outstanding WR's as proof to where you dead ******* wrong. To which you point out they weren't RB.......well, they're not offensive lineman either. He had two All-Pro OL.......Pointless.

[Joel]

Except we're not arguing about the Broncos this time, wtf does the color of my glasses matter?
Except the Broncos are PRECISELY what we're arguing: The Elway, Marino etc. comparison is only relevant in terms of whether to put Lynch in the same situation (i.e. starting rookie QB) and expect great results. The difference between the NFL and SECAA is Vince Young, record-setting BCS Champion and Vince Young, FORMER NFL starter. ONE man alone can't singlehandedly carry bad teams to championships; maybe a 10-win playoff berth, but once he's facing teams where EVERYONE'S great he's a dead man walking, then hobbling. That's the BEST case scenario (i.e. if Lynch is a future first ballot HoFer like Elway and Marino.) Odds are, Lynch is significantly below that level (he could hardly be above it) so making him a rookie starter is even less auspicious.


The point is, if someone says water is wet you'd launch a dissertation trying to prove either how we're wrong or that the water is wrong for being wet, all without actually saying anything whatsoever. Only to show off the big brain on Joel.

Btw, you said Marino was a one-man show, I brought up two outstanding WR's as proof to where you dead ******* wrong. To which you point out they weren't RB.......well, they're not offensive lineman either. He had two All-Pro OL.......Pointless.
No, the point is that citing other aspects of the SAME PASSING ATTACK doesn't complement Marino in any way. Sure, having great WRs helped since he needed someone to catch his passes: But he was STILL PASSING. There was practically ZERO reason for ANY defender to do anything but charge Marino unless they were actively covering a WR. So unless they go into Prevent before halftime... well, Marinos quick release was an even bigger lifesaver than Mannings (at least until Mannings Denver years.) Dwight Stephenson was so good I did a double take and showed my age when we signed that OTHER Stephenson from KC this offseason, but he didn't block LT or other elite edge rushers, and Marino was almost 30 before he had an elite OT in Richmond Webb.

So the offense was Marino playing hot potato to beat blitzes, same as Elway. He had better WRs (and a lesser D) but nothing but HIMSELF to keep blitzers honest.

[dogfish]

:lol::lol:



:doh:

[TXBRONC]

Anyway, Lynch being ready sooner than most people think is really in the hands of Elway and Kubiak, and it's to determine what that means. The only thing I can say at this point, is that seems like Elway and Kubiak would to like to get Lynch on the field at some point this season.

[JPPT1974]

Yeah as really Kubiak says that he would rather have a rookie learn before he throws them to the wolves. But for now, Sanchez is the starter. For the time being.

[Poet]

Lynch will be a stylegod

[Magnificent Seven]

They reminded me of this...

9080 9081

[Simple Jaded]

"Water is wet"-- Anybody Anywhere

"Wrong! Water gets YOU wet, water is just water until it touches something else. I took the time to formulate a complex algorithm to prove it but the internet doesn't have enough bandwidth to post it"-- Joel

[TXBRONC]

Yeah as really Kubiak says that he would rather have a rookie learn before he throws them to the wolves. But for now, Sanchez is the starter. For the time being.

He hasn't named Sanchez the starter and just because Lynch is a rookie doesn't mean he can't be ready to play.

[Cugel]

He hasn't named Sanchez the starter and just because Lynch is a rookie doesn't mean he can't be ready to play.

Pretty much the entire history of the NFL says that.

Elway even said back around 1986 that he wasn't ready to start his rookie year and that putting him in that season hindered his development.

Normally, this doesn't matter because the team stinks anyway and isn't going anywhere regardless of who is the QB. So, it makes sense to put the rookie in and let him flounder to get some experience - as long as it doesn't hinder his development it's OK if he makes some mistakes.

But, these are the defending SB champions not the Cleveland Browns.

[FanInAZ]

Noodleberg was 4-1 as a starter in 1983 with Denver...


That's not necessarily a reflection of a good quarterback. Some of the stars from the orange crush were on that team. They also won a lot of games with a rookie who played very poorly.

Actually, DeBerg was our QB for 6 wins that season. Elway was such a train wreck during his 1st 2 starts that he was benched at half time in both. I don’t care if the stat lines says we won 4 of Elway’s starts because he deserves zero credit for those 1st 2 wins.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/den/1983.htm

[Simple Jaded]

Actually, DeBerg was our QB for 6 wins that season. Elway was such a train wreck during his 1st 2 starts that he was benched at half time in both. I don’t care if the stat lines says we won 4 of Elway’s starts because he deserves zero credit for those 1st 2 wins.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/den/1983.htm
After everything that Elway's done for you? Smdh

[FanInAZ]

After everything that Elway's done for you? Smdh

Elway did a lot for the Broncos, but he was a train wreck those 1st 2 games against the Steelers & the Colts (not to be confused with the 2nd game we played against the Colts that season which was Elway's legendary 1st 4th quarter comeback). He was benched at halftime of both of those 1st 2 games & DeBurg came in to lead the comeback. These are irrefutable historical facts that everyone who watched those game knows to be true.

[Joel]

Pretty much the entire history of the NFL says that.

Elway even said back around 1986 that he wasn't ready to start his rookie year and that putting him in that season hindered his development.

Normally, this doesn't matter because the team stinks anyway and isn't going anywhere regardless of who is the QB. So, it makes sense to put the rookie in and let him flounder to get some experience - as long as it doesn't hinder his development it's OK if he makes some mistakes.

The problem is that's almost GUARANTEED to hinder his development, because it makes floundering habitual. You take a guy just learning the NFL ropes, and teach him an NFL QBs job description is "Run for your life behind ZERO protection with NO run support, trying to thread double coverage with desperation bullet passes off your back foot before you go down in a heap." It makes for a few heroic comebacks and a LOT more embarrassing slaughters.

Do that for a whole season or two and you've got a PERMANENTLY crippled QB, mentally and often physically as well. Remember when RGIII was worth THREE 1st round picks AND a 2nd? Then, y'know, he actually played a full season for a 5-11 team, including a playoff game on a torn ACL and LCL; he's never been the same.

We're the reigning Champs DESPITE our pass protection and run blocking, not because of it. Let Sanchez take the lumps while Dennison rebuilds a solid line, then put Lynch out there AFTER he's memorized the playbook and can count on CJ/Booker to divert safeties and pass rushers for PA passes as well as a line to protect him.

[Davii]

The problem is that's almost GUARANTEED to hinder his development, because it makes floundering habitual. You take a guy just learning the NFL ropes, and teach him an NFL QBs job description is "Run for your life behind ZERO protection with NO run support, trying to thread double coverage with desperation bullet passes off your back foot before you go down in a heap." It makes for a few heroic comebacks and a LOT more embarrassing slaughters.

Do that for a whole season or two and you've got a PERMANENTLY crippled QB, mentally and often physically as well. Remember when RGIII was worth THREE 1st round picks AND a 2nd? Then, y'know, he actually played a full season for a 5-11 team, including a playoff game on a torn ACL and LCL; he's never been the same.

We're the reigning Champs DESPITE our pass protection and run blocking, not because of it. Let Sanchez take the lumps while Dennison rebuilds a solid line, then put Lynch out there AFTER he's memorized the playbook and can count on CJ/Booker to divert safeties and pass rushers for PA passes as well as a line to protect him.

And you know our line isn't solid now how?

[MOtorboat]

And you know our line isn't solid now how?

Because it's never solid.

[BroncoJoe]

I. Am. Speechless.

[Joel]

And you know our line isn't solid now how?
I don't, and Dennison makes me cautiously optimistic—but it's been SO bad SO long that most of the league's been publicly calling it out since the middle of 2014. There's a reason we went through TWO QBs last year and Manning had to come back hurt to finish out the season. Now 3/5 starters are effectively new faces (if Sambrailo's RG, he was on the team his rookie year, but only played 3 games, at a different position.) The only guys still starting at the same spot are Garcia and Paradis, both of whom struggled in pass protection last year because any kind of stunt or delayed blitz routinely left them out of position.

So why not FIND OUT if it's any better before throwing Lynch to the wolves?


Because it's never solid.
Said in jest, but depressingly near the truth. Another case where
Generations of capering fools in motley have won me the right to dress badly and say any damn thing that comes into my head.

[Davii]

I don't, and Dennison makes me cautiously optimistic—but it's been SO bad SO long that most of the league's been publicly calling it out since the middle of 2014. There's a reason we went through TWO QBs last year and Manning had to come back hurt to finish out the season. Now 3/5 starters are effectively new faces (if Sambrailo's RG, he was on the team his rookie year, but only played 3 games, at a different position.) The only guys still starting at the same spot are Garcia and Paradis, both of whom struggled in pass protection last year because any kind of stunt or delayed blitz routinely left them out of position.

So why not FIND OUT if it's any better before throwing Lynch to the wolves?


Said in jest, but depressingly near the truth. Another case where

And you know or believe we're starting Lynch because?

[Poet]

I. Am. Speechless.

I. Am. Von Kinger.

[Joel]

And you know or believe we're starting Lynch because?
I don't, and frankly doubt it. But the thread's title IS "Lynch may be ready sooner than you think." In my case, that's any time before (at least) Opening Day 2017.