PDA

View Full Version : I'm Just Gonna Say It



spikerman
04-30-2016, 09:27 PM
I think Sanchez will be ok this year. I think he'll give the Broncos more than they got from the position last year. Over the past couple of weeks I've warmed to the idea of him starting this year. I was on the Kap bandwagon, but then I realized that I do not want a guy who would rather sit on the bench to collect more money than potentially start for the defending champs. I prefer a competitor. /rant

TXBRONC
04-30-2016, 09:30 PM
I think Sanchez will be ok this year. I think he'll give the Broncos more than they got from the position last year. Over the past couple of weeks I've warmed to the idea of him starting this year. I was on the Kap bandwagon, but then I realized that I do not want a guy who would rather sit on the bench to collect more money than potentially start for the defending champs. I prefer a competitor. /rant

Carol saved you a seat on the train called The Dirty Sanchez.

turftoad
04-30-2016, 09:33 PM
I like Sanchez also. I think he starts this year and if he plays well, he will be the starter. But I'm just gonna say this.I f he stumbles half way through the season, Elway and Kubiak's won't hesitate to throw Lynch in there. There won't be a lot of patience IMO.
They may want to see thier new toy out there.

Tned
04-30-2016, 10:26 PM
I like Sanchez also. I think he starts this year and if he plays well, he will be the starter. But I'm just gonna say this.I f he stumbles half way through the season, Elway and Kubiak's won't hesitate to throw Lynch in there. There won't be a lot of patience IMO.
They may want to see thier new toy out there.

Agreed

DenBronx
05-01-2016, 01:01 AM
I like Sanchez also. I think he starts this year and if he plays well, he will be the starter. But I'm just gonna say this.I f he stumbles half way through the season, Elway and Kubiak's won't hesitate to throw Lynch in there. There won't be a lot of patience IMO.
They may want to see thier new toy out there.


Thank you John Madden.

Joel
05-01-2016, 01:08 AM
I like Sanchez also. I think he starts this year and if he plays well, he will be the starter. But I'm just gonna say this.I f he stumbles half way through the season, Elway and Kubiak's won't hesitate to throw Lynch in there. There won't be a lot of patience IMO.
They may want to see thier new toy out there.
The flip side is that they may not want to BREAK their new toy before noon Christmas Day, because we're once again looking at a lot of new faces starting on a line that's coming off an awful season. One of the best arguments for a rookie QB over a retread like Sanchez is that he won't have to un-learn a lot of bad habits developed by constantly compensating for the lack of protection and other offensive talent around him. The learning curve's not the only reason teams are reluctant to throw rookie QBs out there immediately: A team bad enough to get the kind of pick it takes to land a top QB prospect doesn't have much help to give him.

Obviously the defending Champs aren't a bad team. But we won with an elite D and elite WRs, despite awful run and pass blocking, a productive but injury-prone RB and solid but unremarkable TEs: In other words, without ANY of the three things young QBs need to succeed. I felt bad about it, but one reason I hoped Manning could play all of 2015 was that I didn't want Oz getting his first real starts behind our Swiss cheese line. When he did, he lasted a little over a month before an injury serious enough to impair his play, just as a previous injury to Manning got Oz the starting job in the first place.

We just won a SB, and it's not the end of the world if we don't immediately repeat. I'd much rather take the time to make the long term investments that win 2-3 more over the next decade. Let Lynch learn on the practice field, in the film room and on the gameday bench, then turn him loose to wreak havoc behind a stout solid line with a devastating run complement next year.

I'm just glad we're not all in with Kaep; I don't think he's much (if any) better than Sanchez, and KNOW he's not nearly as hungry. Much better to take a talented tabula rasa in the 1st and hope our QB guru HC can make him a star later and salvage Sanchez now, than to spend >$10M/yr hoping to fix all that's wrong with Kaep.

Simple Jaded
05-01-2016, 01:17 AM
I hope they let Lynch sit and learn this year, dude has a long way to go and the last we saw the running game was nowhere near capable of being a rookie QB's best friend.

Besides that, the QB market is so retarded that all they need is Osweiler level play from Dirty to get another sweet comp pick from his $18 MM/per contract.

Broncoknight30
05-01-2016, 05:39 AM
I think Sanchez will be ok this year. I think he'll give the Broncos more than they got from the position last year. Over the past couple of weeks I've warmed to the idea of him starting this year. I was on the Kap bandwagon, but then I realized that I do not want a guy who would rather sit on the bench to collect more money than potentially start for the defending champs. I prefer a competitor. /rant

I tend to agree with you. He knows the west coast offense. That is what he thrived in at USC. He will be protected by an improved running game that Kubiak likes to play. There is an improved OL.

I think he will be fine.

Couple that with a dynamic defense. This offense has made many QBs look real good over the years. Especially when you compare what those QBs that thrived here did with other teams. Examples are Brian Griese and Jake Plummer. Both were pro bowlers under the Kube balanaced stretch run offense.

He could be better than many think.

Northman
05-01-2016, 06:01 AM
I too think Sanchez will be fine. I wont go out and say he will become a HOF'r but if he could help guide the Jets to two AFCCG's and now is a better organization with better receivers, better coaching, better team management, and one of the best defenses in the NFL i think even Stevie Wonder could QB this team. At worst we have another Bubby Brister here that can drive the Ferrari until Lynch gets up to speed.

VonDoom
05-01-2016, 06:19 AM
I hope they let Lynch sit and learn this year, dude has a long way to go and the last we saw the running game was nowhere near capable of being a rookie QB's best friend.

Besides that, the QB market is so retarded that all they need is Osweiler level play from Dirty to get another sweet comp pick from his $18 MM/per contract.

Bingo. I hope we don't see Lynch at all this year. Let him focus entirely on learning the offense and plan for him to start in 2017. I just don't think he's ready for the keys to the Ferrari this year. As I said in another thread, I'd rather err on the side of caution instead of rushing him in before he's ready.

TXBRONC
05-01-2016, 07:32 AM
Bingo. I hope we don't see Lynch at all this year. Let him focus entirely on learning the offense and plan for him to start in 2017. I just don't think he's ready for the keys to the Ferrari this year. As I said in another thread, I'd rather err on the side of caution instead of rushing him in before he's ready.

Well our offense last year was less Ferrari and more Yugo with two flat tires. :D

Dzone
05-01-2016, 07:54 AM
Sanchez is cool. He is a hard worker and has come in here with a fantastic attitude. He has leadership skills. He is adequate for what we need early on. As long as he doesnt wear that hair thing.

Almost nobody thinks that Paxton Lynch will be ready for at least a year. Kiper said it is more like 2-3 years. None of those opinions matter. Paxton is a superior human specimen who now is going to have the best coaches in the game. Dont under estimate the value of superior tools. Marino-esque rookie season coming up. Super Bowl!

TXBRONC
05-01-2016, 08:07 AM
Sanchez is cool. He is a hard worker and has come in here with a fantastic attitude. He has leadership skills. He is adequate for what we need early on. As long as he doesnt wear that hair thing.

Almost nobody thinks that Paxton Lynch will be ready for at least a year. Kiper said it is more like 2-3 years. None of those opinions matter. Paxton is a superior human specimen who now is going to have the best coaches in the game. Dont under estimate the value of superior tools. Marino-esque rookie season coming up. Super Bowl!

I like how Sanchez has handled himself and how many quarterbacks can say they have dance after them (the Dirty Sanchez).

Broncoknight30
05-01-2016, 08:48 AM
Well our offense last year was less Ferrari and more Yugo with two flat tires. :D
Even though for so long I said the key to winning a championship is a BALANCED offense along with a solid defense, I did not think the Broncos could possibly go ALL THE WAY with that offense.

In fact the offense broke the Craig Morton led 1977 Broncos team in a SB. 1 for 14 in 3rd down conversions. Something like that.

Anyway, it just proves what a real dynamic defense can do. Tell you the truth, I think this team has all of the makings of a real dynasty.

NightTrainLayne
05-01-2016, 09:36 AM
The last thing I want to see is Lynch starting games this season.

He's got a lot to learn. Sanchez is more than capable of doing what we need done. If he stumbles? Well, then he stumbles. That is not a good reason to rush Lynch out too early. Believe it or not, he can learn a lot from watching Sanchez "stumble" as well. However, I don't predict Sanchez doing poorly. He will be just fine in this offense, with this defense to back him up.

Denver Native (Carol)
05-01-2016, 12:23 PM
from article:


1. ELWAY IS CONFIDENT IN MARK SANCHEZ AS THE STARTER.

If Paxton Lynch isn't ready to seize the job in the upcoming quarterback competition, Elway believes that Sanchez will handle the role well.

"He's been in the playoffs. He's been in championship games. He's proven. He's done that, [although] he hasn't done it in a while," Elway said.

But Elway also believes that the Broncos' scheme and surrounding personnel -- which includes three recent Pro Bowl targets in RB C.J. Anderson and WRs Demaryius Thomas and Emmanuel Sanders -- will maximize Sanchez's potential.

"I don't know that he's ever been in a great offensive system that takes advantage of what he can do," Elway said.

"He played okay when he did play [in Philadelphia]. He made a couple of mistakes, but he played okay. A lot of times, you get quarterbacks in the right situations, and they go in the right spot, with the right people around them, and they have a chance to take advantage of what he can do.

"And he's got a lot of talent."

full article - http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Seven-takeaways-from-John-Elway-and-Gary-Kubiak-Mark-Sanchez-Sylvester-Williams-rookies-and-more/68c762c1-60d5-4778-8605-f3ee8009c4e3

TXBRONC
05-01-2016, 12:44 PM
Even though for so long I said the key to winning a championship is a BALANCED offense along with a solid defense, I did not think the Broncos could possibly go ALL THE WAY with that offense.

In fact the offense broke the Craig Morton led 1977 Broncos team in a SB. 1 for 14 in 3rd down conversions. Something like that.

Anyway, it just proves what a real dynamic defense can do. Tell you the truth, I think this team has all of the makings of a real dynasty.

I still believe that the offense is going to have to be better. Certainly Denver could have an offense that just limps along the defense another incredible job they go back to back but I don't think it's likely to happen. If Kubiak's offense is as productive here as it was at it best in Houston and Baltimore then I like Denver's chances much better.

silkamilkamonico
05-01-2016, 01:37 PM
from article:



full article - http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Seven-takeaways-from-John-Elway-and-Gary-Kubiak-Mark-Sanchez-Sylvester-Williams-rookies-and-more/68c762c1-60d5-4778-8605-f3ee8009c4e3


Is Sylvester Williams not worth $6.75 mil a year? No idea what 3-4 DT's make, I know the the 4-3 DT elites are almost $20 mil a season. Would think Sylvester Williams is definitely worth $6.75 for a season unless there's a significant contract difference between 3-4 and 4-3 DT's.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
05-01-2016, 01:58 PM
Is Sylvester Williams not worth $6.75 mil a year? No idea what 3-4 DT's make, I know the the 4-3 DT elites are almost $20 mil a season. Would think Sylvester Williams is definitely worth $6.75 for a season unless there's a significant contract difference between 3-4 and 4-3 DT's.

I don't know if he is worth that, especially with us having so much tied into Wolfe, Miller, Ware, and a first rounder in Ray.

You can only spend so much on your front seven. Even if he is a good player, he's not one of the 2 or 3 best players on the front 7. He's only proven to be a jag at this point.

G_Money
05-01-2016, 02:55 PM
I would still expect Denver to pick up the option and give themselves another year to figure out the NT situation going forward. I don't think it will be Sly years down the road for the same reason Malik is not here: somebody else will pay more than we want to, because we want the whole team to stay together.

But having Sly for two years would help us draft his replacement and still get them experience while he is here, just as we did with him and Pot Roast. We'll see.

Simple Jaded
05-01-2016, 03:46 PM
Sanchez is cool. He is a hard worker and has come in here with a fantastic attitude. He has leadership skills. He is adequate for what we need early on. As long as he doesnt wear that hair thing.

Almost nobody thinks that Paxton Lynch will be ready for at least a year. Kiper said it is more like 2-3 years. None of those opinions matter. Paxton is a superior human specimen who now is going to have the best coaches in the game. Dont under estimate the value of superior tools. Marino-esque rookie season coming up. Super Bowl!

Cecil Lammey seems to think he'd be ready by the bye week, so for the sake of this discussion lets say he is, unless Sanchez is screwing the pooch I hope Lynch is getting nothing more than garbage time. I got the impression that Lammey's prediction had as much or more to do with Sanchez screwing the pooch than Lynch being ready.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
05-01-2016, 03:48 PM
Cecil Lammey seems to think he'd be ready by the bye week, so say he is, unless Sanchez is screwing the pooch I hope Lynch is getting nothing more than garbage time. I got the impression that Lammey's prediction had more to do with Sanchez screwing the pooch than Lynch being ready.

I don't think Sanchez will screw the pooch. His skill set fits the wc well. The running game should be vastly improved this year with good depth at RB and a an improved offensive line.

Tned
05-01-2016, 03:50 PM
Is Sylvester Williams not worth $6.75 mil a year? No idea what 3-4 DT's make, I know the the 4-3 DT elites are almost $20 mil a season. Would think Sylvester Williams is definitely worth $6.75 for a season unless there's a significant contract difference between 3-4 and 4-3 DT's.

Pretty sure I read someplace yesterday that it would make him highest paid NT in league.

Simple Jaded
05-01-2016, 03:50 PM
Cecil Lammey seems to think he'd be ready by the bye week, so for the sake of this discussion lets say he is, unless Sanchez is screwing the pooch I hope Lynch is getting nothing more than garbage time. I got the impression that Lammey's prediction had as much or more to do with Sanchez screwing the pooch than Lynch being ready.
Hell, even if Sanchez does struggle I'm not so sure Siemian might be a better option. Lynch's college offense did next to nothing to prepare him for the NFL, his college HC laughed and refused to speculate if he would be ready for meaningful time this season.

Joel
05-01-2016, 08:26 PM
Is Sylvester Williams not worth $6.75 mil a year? No idea what 3-4 DT's make, I know the the 4-3 DT elites are almost $20 mil a season. Would think Sylvester Williams is definitely worth $6.75 for a season unless there's a significant contract difference between 3-4 and 4-3 DT's.
Depends how one looks at it: INDIVIDUALLY, 3-4 NTs are worth far more than 4-3 DTs because they're far more critical to their respective base D—but there's only one of them on the field, not two, so they're COLLECTIVELY worth less. Paying one person 50% more to do the work of TWO is still much less expensive.


Pretty sure I read someplace yesterday that it would make him highest paid NT in league.
Just going by Spotrac (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/base/defensive-tackle/), it looks like the devil's in the details (as usual.) They have Dareus as highest earning DT, and his $14½M cap hit is right in the middle between 6.75M and $20M. No one's paying All Pro QB nor SB MVP pass rusher money for DTs; Geno Atkins' 2016 cap hit ($10M) is HALF as much.

It's a tough call because ALL choices may be "wrong." The spot's undervalued, IMHO, and the critical space-eating, pocket-collapsing, double-team-commanding anchor of any 3-4, which is why I like having two solid ones to handle fatigue and injury without missing a beat. I still wouldn't pay any NT as much as Von Miller though, because they can't contribute as much, and there's only so much cap space for 53 guys. Inability to replace Sly for <$7M wouldn't make him worth that.

The best "option" is probably obviating the 5th year option by re-signing Sly now and pro-rating the pain—if only because exercising the 5th year option's not a long term solution: It just buys a year to FIND that permanent fix (while the price inflates.) $6.75M for a single season is a lot when we must release or re-sign more than TWO DOZEN guys by this time next year. Remember when people said that didn't include Sly "because we have a 5th year option; he's not going anywhere"? ;)

For perspective, a good but not great starting 3-4 NT went #11 overall the year before we got Sly, so is playing out his club option now: Dontari Poe.

Tned
05-01-2016, 10:13 PM
Depends how one looks at it: INDIVIDUALLY, 3-4 NTs are worth far more than 4-3 DTs because they're far more critical to their respective base D—but there's only one of them on the field, not two, so they're COLLECTIVELY worth less. Paying one person 50% more to do the work of TWO is still much less expensive.


Just going by Spotrac (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/base/defensive-tackle/), it looks like the devil's in the details (as usual.) They have Dareus as highest earning DT, and his $14½M cap hit is right in the middle between 6.75M and $20M. No one's paying All Pro QB nor SB MVP pass rusher money for DTs; Geno Atkins' 2016 cap hit ($10M) is HALF as much.

It's a tough call because ALL choices may be "wrong." The spot's undervalued, IMHO, and the critical space-eating, pocket-collapsing, double-team-commanding anchor of any 3-4, which is why I like having two solid ones to handle fatigue and injury without missing a beat. I still wouldn't pay any NT as much as Von Miller though, because they can't contribute as much, and there's only so much cap space for 53 guys. Inability to replace Sly for <$7M wouldn't make him worth that.

The best "option" is probably obviating the 5th year option by re-signing Sly now and pro-rating the pain—if only because exercising the 5th year option's not a long term solution: It just buys a year to FIND that permanent fix (while the price inflates.) $6.75M for a single season is a lot when we must release or re-sign more than TWO DOZEN guys by this time next year. Remember when people said that didn't include Sly "because we have a 5th year option; he's not going anywhere"? ;)

For perspective, a good but not great starting 3-4 NT went #11 overall the year before we got Sly, so is playing out his club option now: Dontari Poe.

Dareus isn't a good comparison, as he isn't a pure NT. Buffalo was previously playing a 4-3 if I remember correctly, they've switched back and forth, and Ryan does some weird stuff that is like a hybrid between a 3-4 and 4-3.

Of the pure 3-4 NT's, Williams would be the highest paid NT in the league, with one other guy around $6 I believe (on a fifth year option) and all others in the 2-4 million or so range.

So, the question is whether or not William is the best 3-4 NT in the game. If so, then he might be worth the 6.5.

Joel
05-01-2016, 11:40 PM
Dareus isn't a good comparison, as he isn't a pure NT. Buffalo was previously playing a 4-3 if I remember correctly, they've switched back and forth, and Ryan does some weird stuff that is like a hybrid between a 3-4 and 4-3.

Of the pure 3-4 NT's, Williams would be the highest paid NT in the league, with one other guy around $6 I believe (on a fifth year option) and all others in the 2-4 million or so range.
Right, Poe; I, er, "described" him, and think him very comparable to Sly in role, draft position and salary. He's been KCs anchor longer, but they've run a 3-4 longer, and didn't have guys like Big Vick or Potroast ahead of Poe on the depth chart. Dareus is the ceiling, but still far from $20M; neither "elite" nor any other kind of DT (4-3 or 3-4) is pulling down anything like that.


So, the question is whether or not William is the best 3-4 NT in the game. If so, then he might be worth the 6.5.

I dunno; can't run a 3-4 without a SOLID NT, so maybe he is worth that. If so, we need to do a long term deal NOW, or we'll be right back here at the end of next years club option, and the only change will be that the price of a starting 3-4 NT went up and Sly got a year older. There are lots of ways to play with a five-year deal and manage each years cap hit, but a single-year club option is pretty inflexible: Take it or leave it.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
05-02-2016, 12:02 AM
Sly is not Poe, it's not even close. Poe is possibly the most dominant interior man in the game right now and is a physical freak.

Joel
05-02-2016, 12:20 AM
Sly is not Poe, it's not even close. Poe is possibly the most dominant interior man in the game right now and is a physical freak.
I'll take your word on that; my focus is more on offense. That said, Poe still strikes me as a good benchmark: Another former 1st rounder (hence the 5th year option) 3-4 starting NT, so he is now where Sly would be next year, for the same (inflation-adjusted) pay. If Sly reaches that benchmark so does his value; if not, not.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
05-02-2016, 12:33 AM
I'll take your word on that; my focus is more on offense. That said, Poe still strikes me as a good benchmark: Another former 1st rounder (hence the 5th year option) 3-4 starting NT, so he is now where Sly would be next year, for the same (inflation-adjusted) pay. If Sly reaches that benchmark so does his value; if not, not.

Poe will get paid. He's 350 pounds his feet and hands are every bit as quick as Sly's. He's like a young Vince Wilfork.