Possible trade between Denver, Buffalo, and Cleveland in possible works

[Northman]

http://www.netonesports.com/2016/04/13/bills-broncos-browns-brokering-blockbuster-trade/


While actual “player for player” deals have returned to fashion of late– Foles/Bradford, Graham/Unger, McCoy/Alonso in 2015 alone– it’s been awhile since the NFL has seen a blockbuster three-team deal the likes of what appears to be in the works between the Buffalo Bills, Cleveland Browns, and Denver Broncos.Not only does this look like a huge deal, but it makes sense for all three teams.

The key player here is disgruntled Bills QB Tyrod Taylor, whose agent Adisa Bakari has publicly stated disgust for the organization’s handling of his client’s contract (http://espn.go.com/blog/nfl/rumors/post/_/id/30044/nfl-rumor-central-taylors-agent-blames-defense-for-missing-playoffs).

Taylor, coming off a Pro Bowl season, is due to earn a paltry $3 million in 2016. Saddled by a host of ill-advised big money (McCoy, Clay, Incognito) contracts, the Bills have painted themselves into a corner with Taylor and are at serious risk of seeing him walk as an unrestricted free agent in 2017.

With the unanticipated departure of once-presumed incumbent Brock Osweiler (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14939958/free-agent-signee-brock-osweiler-arrives-houston-says-texans-cusp-doing-great), the Broncos are searching for Peyton Manning’s replacement and smell blood in the Buffalo water.

Until now, they haven’t had enough trade ammunition to get the deal done as sources close to the situation tell us the Bills will only consider trading Taylor “if a commensurate QB asset comes in return.”

Enter the Browns and their number 2 overall pick.

Still smarting from the Johnny Manziel fiasco, Cleveland feels confident at QB with newly-acquired Robert Griffin III (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000647310/article/robert-griffin-iii-signs-with-cleveland-browns) but seeks a bevy of additional picks to take a swing at the QB pool while still making reasonable “roster-filling” decisions.
Sources close to Denver management tell us the nuts and bolts of the deal are “pretty much done” pending Cleveland approval.
Here’s the rough draft of what we’re hearing.


http://www.netonesports.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/trade2.jpg

[underrated29]

We'd give up a first for Tyrod Taylor? No effing way this is true. I would be so pissed....plus another player yet to be indentified.


F THIS!

[Buff]

Ain't nobody tradin' a 1st round pick for Taylor and his 1 year of team control - nor is anybody going to give up a 1st rounder to negotiate a big new contract with Taylor, which is surely what his camp would push for. Ain't never happening. End of story.

[olathebroncofan]

Draft day has come to life.

It would be interesting. Cleveland could possibly get a lot better in a hurry.

I didn't see they end up with 2 1sts. They could package their 19th and get a RB. Sit tight at 31, and wait for someone to come up, or get a WR. Hue Jackson, elliot, RG3, Their TE, and a decent WR could be start of something big in Cleveland.

[Bronco4ever]

I'd rather get Taylor than Kaep, but that's way too much to give up for him.

[tomjonesrocks]

It's a professional-looking graphic.

[BroncoJoe]

It's basically a 2nd round pick we'd be giving up.

Sincerely,

Joel

[VonDoom]

I don't think so. Who is "Net One Sports" anyway? I've never heard of them. If there was any real smoke to this fire, the usual suspects would be reporting it.

[The Glue Factory]

Little late for April 1st, isn't it North?

[Northman]

Hey man, i didnt say it was fact. I just saw some other Bronco fans on FB talking about this but im just as skeptical as anyone as i havent seen Espin or anyone else talking about it. For me personally im hoping its hogwash because i really really hate this idea of a trade. lol

[BroncoJoe]

I don't think so. Who is "Net One Sports" anyway? I've never heard of them. If there was any real smoke to this fire, the usual suspects would be reporting it.

I don't know, but they had this on their website. I'm guessing they're legit:


WRAP YOUR MEAT IN A BLANKET OF BACON

http://www.netonesports.com/2015/09/17/wrap-your-meat-in-a-blanket-of-bacon/

[turftoad]

The only reason Taylor was in the Pro Bowl is because all the other 15 QB's in the AFC either were injured or passed. :D

[VonDoom]

I don't know, but they had this on their website. I'm guessing they're legit:



http://www.netonesports.com/2015/09/17/wrap-your-meat-in-a-blanket-of-bacon/

Now that's an idea we can all get behind

[VonDoom]

Hey man, i didnt say it was fact. I just saw some other Bronco fans on FB talking about this but im just as skeptical as anyone as i havent seen Espin or anyone else talking about it. For me personally im hoping its hogwash because i really really hate this idea of a trade. lol

Honestly, I wouldn't mind Tyrod Taylor - we were apparently interested in him last offseason. But not for our first rounder.

[The Glue Factory]

Honestly, I wouldn't mind Tyrod Taylor - we were apparently interested in him last offseason. But not for our first rounder.

I bet the first is Cleveland's offer. I don't see Elway going higher than a third which we're offering for Kaep. Although, I suppose Elway may give up the second *IF* he and Kubes think Taylor's a diamond in the rough.

[DenBronx]

Oh god no....please god no.....NOOooOoOooOOOooo

[Ravage!!!]

I'd love to see Tyrod in Denver.... and we know that Kubiak tried to get him to Denver before last season. But I can't see why Denver would send a 1st for him and only offer a 4th for Kaep. So I very much doubt there is any validity to this report....but the players and places they go all make sense. Seems someone put that together, than figured out the "points" that added up to make a trade like that. Nothing else.

[BroncoWave]

I'd love to see Tyrod in Denver.... and we know that Kubiak tried to get him to Denver before last season. But I can't see why Denver would send a 1st for him and only offer a 4th for Kaep. So I very much doubt there is any validity to this report....but the players and places they go all make sense. Seems someone put that together, than figured out the "points" that added up to make a trade like that. Nothing else.

I fully agree that someone made up this trade, but I really wouldn't be against it. If Denver is considering Paxton Lynch at 31 like many people assume, I'd rather spend that pick on Taylor given the choice.

[Ravage!!!]

I fully agree that someone made up this trade, but I really wouldn't be against it. If Denver is considering Paxton Lynch at 31 like many people assume, I'd rather spend that pick on Taylor given the choice.

I see what you are saying, but the "possibility" of spending a first round pick on a QB is different than using a 1st round pick on a QB that was originally drafted in the 6th round after just one year of starting. There is a reason a guy has the talent to be drafted in the first round, and a reason that a guy has the talent to be drafted in the 6th. Now some will point out 'Brady' as an example...but the truth is that Brady is by far the exception rather than the rule. So would we be getting more 'potential' from Tyrod over a guy like Paxon with the 31st pick (not to mention a much lower salary)??? I'm not so sure.

[BroncoWave]

I see what you are saying, but the "possibility" of spending a first round pick on a QB is different than using a 1st round pick on a QB that was originally drafted in the 6th round after just one year of starting. There is a reason a guy has the talent to be drafted in the first round, and a reason that a guy has the talent to be drafted in the 6th. Now some will point out 'Brady' as an example...but the truth is that Brady is by far the exception rather than the rule. So would we be getting more 'potential' from Tyrod over a guy like Paxon with the 31st pick (not to mention a much lower salary)??? I'm not so sure.

I mostly think Lynch is way over-hyped. It just seems like he is a guy who just burst onto the scene with one big season and suddenly he is a hot prospect. Maybe he will be good, but I could just as easily see him being a bust.

Taylor we at the very least know is a solid player and obviously Kubes likes him since he has already coached him and tried to get him last year. I'll concede that Lynch probably has a higher ceiling if he hits the potential people say he has, but Taylor is more ready right now and we still have a team that can compete for titles if we get a competent QB in there. By the time Lynch develops, who knows how our roster will look.

Taylor would just be the safer pick of the two to me. Now granted, this is of course based on the giant hypothetical that we would be picking Lynch in the first round. I don't really love the idea of using a first on either one of them, but if forced to choose, I would use it on Taylor first.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

It's a professional-looking graphic.

:laugh:

Good job staying positive!

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I don't think we're going to find a qb with more upside at 31. I'd be ok with it. He's a better athlete than Lynch

[BroncoJoe]

If they're not comfortable with Sanchez, I'm all for this as opposed to reaching on an unknown. It's the 31st pick. It's not like we're giving up a pick in the top 10 or something.

[BroncoWave]

If we're going to draft a QB, I'd rather it be in round 2 or 3. There just isn't a QB who will be there at 31 that I would want to take that high. Yes, even Dak who I love I think that would be too soon.

[NightTerror218]

Why are people so high on taylor? I have not been impressed and has started 1 year. Went to pro bowl with all other AFC QBs bowing out due to injury ir always bowing out like brady.

[DenBronx]

I don't think we're going to find a qb with more upside at 31. I'd be ok with it. He's a better athlete than Lynch

Do we want an "athlete" or franchise prototypical pocket passing QB? I thought we already gave that kind of QB a chance here and it failed.

#tebow

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Do we want an "athlete" or franchise prototypical pocket passing QB? I thought we already gave that kind of QB a chance here and it failed.

#tebow

He's not just an athlete. He's a good qb. He would probably thrive in Kubes system. He played well under Rex for crying out loud.

[slim]

And Buff told me there was no way Buffalo would trade him.

Hope this is true

[Cugel]

Officially total bull-shit? All three teams have denied trade rumor:



Benjamin Allbright (https://twitter.com/AllbrightNFL/status/720402751818084353)
‏@AllbrightNFL

This #Broncos #Browns #Bills three way trade rumor has been denied by all three teams, and is the product of one unknown blog.



Benjamin Allbright
‏@AllbrightNFL

@RyanKoenigsberg I called and asked.
5:10 PM - 13 Apr 2016



However, trade rumors swirl since the Bills have not been able to re-sign Taylor to a long-term contract and are taking a hard look at Paxton Lynch and other potential QBs in the draft:


Report: Broncos have asked about Tyrod Taylor (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/04/07/report-broncos-have-asked-about-tyrod-taylor/related/)
Posted by Josh Alper on April 7, 2016, 3:17 PM EDT
ORCHARD PARK, NY - JANUARY 03: Tyrod Taylor #5 of the Buffalo Bills acknowledges the crowd after the Bills beat the New York Jets 22-17 at Ralph Wilson Stadium on January 3, 2016 in Orchard Park, New York. (Photo by Tom Szczerbowski/Getty Images) Getty Images

The Bills have been doing their research on the quarterbacks available in this year’s draft, which makes sense since they don’t have a quarterback signed beyond this season.

That could change if they reached agreement on a contract extension with Taylor, something both sides have said they are open to but there hasn’t been much momentum toward a deal at this point. There could be a third option to the extension and letting Taylor play out the season.

Benjamin Allbright of 1340 AM in Denver reported that the Broncos have inquired with the Bills about Taylor, something that the Bills website discussed on Thursday without confirming or denying any conversations have taken place. Taylor played for Broncos coach Gary Kubiak when Kubiak was the offensive coordinator on the Ravens, and Vic Lombardi of Altitude Sports Network said on PFT Live last season that the Broncos were interested in him as a free agent in 2015 before he signed with the Bills.

Taylor’s agent, Adisa Bakari, didn’t comment on the Broncos report on Sirius XM NFL Radio Thursday, but did suggest other teams would be interested in his services. He also told the Bills that defense and discipline were bigger factors in missing the playoffs than Taylor, who he called “exceptional,” and said he hopes that Buffalo realizes that 2015 was a “small sample” of what Taylor can do.

Asking isn't getting. As of right now there's no trade, and the Bills remain interested in working out a long-term deal with Taylor who had a great season for Buffalo in 2015.

[BroncoWave]

Do we want an "athlete" or franchise prototypical pocket passing QB? I thought we already gave that kind of QB a chance here and it failed.

#tebow

Have you actually watched Taylor play or are you just dismissing him as only an "athlete" for other reasons?

[Slick]

Yeah, I don't really watch the Bills so I'm not informed enough to have an opinion on him.

[Simple Jaded]

I'm beginning to think Denver has horseshit taste in QB's.

[Simple Jaded]

I fully agree that someone made up this trade, but I really wouldn't be against it. If Denver is considering Paxton Lynch at 31 like many people assume, I'd rather spend that pick on Taylor given the choice.

Serious question, did you hit your head on something?

[BroncoWave]

Serious question, did you hit your head on something?

Hmm, I feel like you are stealing this #hottake from someone but I hit my head and forgot who... :D

[Simple Jaded]

Hmm, I feel like you are stealing this #hottake from someone but I hit my head and forgot who... :D

It gets the point across beautifully.

[Simple Jaded]

Seriously, you gotta have your head examined if you consider giving a 1st round pick for Taylor, that's Weapons Grade stupid. Draft picks are gold, they're more valuable than current players, you probably couldn't get a 1st for DT.

If Kaep is worth a 4th than Taylor is worth a 6th or 7th.

If the Broncos trade for Taylor I'm bumping Spikers "We're screwed" thread.

[BroncoWave]

Seriously, you gotta have your head examined if you consider giving a 1st round pick for Taylor, that's Weapons Grade stupid. Draft picks are gold, they're more valuable than current players, you probably couldn't get a 1st for DT.

If Kaep is worth a 4th than Taylor is worth a 6th or 7th.

If the Broncos trade for Taylor I'm bumping Spikers "We're screwed" thread.

I'm just comparing using a first on Taylor to using a first on Lynch. I think there's a good chance Lynch will be a bust and you at least know Taylor can play, so I'd rather use it on Taylor. Overall though, I'd rather not use the first rounder on either of them though. My post was more an indictment on Lynch than support for Taylor.

[Poet]

I want Denver to take a first round QB-I presuppose that Elway wouldn't miss and even if he did the defense and supporting cast would carry said QB- so in that aspect I disagree slightly.

In regards to Taylor: He is a running QB who doesn't make great reads or progressions. His low statline in the contemporary offensive orientated NFL is a glaring indictment upon him in my eyes. He is not worth a first round pick and next year if he is the starter he will look like hot garbage.

[Simple Jaded]

I'm just comparing using a first on Taylor to using a first on Lynch. I think there's a good chance Lynch will be a bust and you at least know Taylor can play, so I'd rather use it on Taylor. Overall though, I'd rather not use the first rounder on either of them though. My post was more an indictment on Lynch than support for Taylor.

Gotta admit, this has always been something I never got, that teams would rather drink turpentine and piss on a brush fire than trade a draft pick for a young, established and proven player.

That you couldn't trade DT for the 1st round pick a team would use on Laquan Treadwell.

[BroncoWave]

I want Denver to take a first round QB-I presuppose that Elway wouldn't miss and even if he did the defense and supporting cast would carry said QB- so in that aspect I disagree slightly.

In regards to Taylor: He is a running QB who doesn't make great reads or progressions. His low statline in the contemporary offensive orientated NFL is a glaring indictment upon him in my eyes. He is not worth a first round pick and next year if he is the starter he will look like hot garbage.

I'm a little gunshy on Denver drafting QBs early after getting burned on Cutler, Tebow, and Osweiler. I get that you have to sometimes, but it worries me.

[TXBRONC]

It seems to me Prescott is in the same mold as Taylor but he wouldn't cost nearly as much Taylor would.

[aberdien]

If we are planning on spending the pick on a QB, I would rather have Taylor.

If not, trade the pick to the second round somewhere and a later pick, and send the second round pick instead. That being the case, I wouldn't mind this decision.

[BroncoWave]

It seems to me Prescott is in the same mold as Taylor but he wouldn't cost nearly as much Taylor would.

Yeah way rather use a second or third on dak than a first on taylor.

[Jsteve01]

I trust this regime far more than the previous to draft and develop qbs

[TXBRONC]

I trust this regime far more than the previous to draft and develop qbs

I do to and that's why I don't think this a legitimate.

[Poet]

I'm a little gunshy on Denver drafting QBs early after getting burned on Cutler, Tebow, and Osweiler. I get that you have to sometimes, but it worries me.

Oz looked like a good pick till he split. Cutler at least wasn't a bust and has had some highs. Tebow was yea....

I'm just being blindly homer. IDK.

[Simple Jaded]

Prescott isn't dropping because of his so-called off field issues but I still think you can get him in the 2nd or even 3rd (I've yet to hear another team connected to him). Gimme Prescott over Taylor and day, at least he's in his rookie contract, sounds like Taylor is looking "to get mine" and we've seen what the market is for his level of QB's.

I'll take the devil I don't know.

Edit, but hey, at least they're not interested in TJ Yates.

[Joel]

It's basically a 2nd round pick we'd be giving up.

Sincerely,

Joel
PLUS an unnamed player AND a 5th year option: Neither apply to picks in ANY other round. But Taylor's only 26, so if it were straight pick for player:

1) Will there be a better QB at #31 in this draft and 2) do you wanna role with Sanchez?

If the answer to both questions is "no," Taylor's worth a pick that's IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWED BY A 2ND ROUNDER. Except for the 5th year option, what's the difference between #31 and #32? 1. There's no 5th year option in later rounds, so that math's still the same until comp picks (and even then it doesn't change much until the 4th or 5th round; what's the draft chart say the value difference is between, say, #150 and #157?)

If you don't want to talk to me don't cite me by name.

Sincerely,

Joel

[Ziggy]

I'd take Tyrod Taylor for a first in a heartbeat. He's a proven commodity. He finished 7th in QB rating despite being in his first year as a starter and on a garbage offense. He's a dual threat QB that can read a defense far better than Kaepernick and he's getting ready to come into his prime. That's more than you're going to get with the 31st pick in the draft.

Elway is also not giving up a first without a new contract in hand. I don't know if this rumor has any merit to it, but I'd be thrilled if it happened.

[VonDoom]

Part of the issue with trading pick 31 for Taylor is opportunity cost. If we were to draft, say, Lynch with #31, we have him for four (or five) cost controlled years. Taylor only has a year left and if he's even decent, he will want a pay day on par with any of the "good" QB's out there, similar to Oz. I'm not saying it's necessarily wrong if Elway thinks he could be the guy, but it's not as simple as "is Taylor better than any QB we would pick in the first round?"

[Mike]

I'm just comparing using a first on Taylor to using a first on Lynch. I think there's a good chance Lynch will be a bust and you at least know Taylor can play, so I'd rather use it on Taylor. Overall though, I'd rather not use the first rounder on either of them though. My post was more an indictment on Lynch than support for Taylor.

Lynch won't make it to 31. Denver will have to go with BPA. But they shouldn't panic and give away their first for Taylor. He isn't worth that value. I like him better than Kaep and would rather Denver make a trade for him, but not for a 1st....let alone a 1st and a player. Forget that.

I am probably one of the biggest Sanchez detractors and I would rather go with Sanchez than give away a 1st and a player for Taylor.

[Simple Jaded]

I'd take Tyrod Taylor for a first in a heartbeat. He's a proven commodity. He finished 7th in QB rating despite being in his first year as a starter and on a garbage offense. He's a dual threat QB that can read a defense far better than Kaepernick and he's getting ready to come into his prime. That's more than you're going to get with the 31st pick in the draft.

Elway is also not giving up a first without a new contract in hand. I don't know if this rumor has any merit to it, but I'd be thrilled if it happened.

First of all its debatable that Taylor is even close to Kaep.

You don't trade premium picks for proven commodities, especially proven a commodity as limited as Taylor. This would further pervert the QB market, it'd be more stupid than giving $18 MM to Osweiler. This, would be Josh McDaniels stupid.

[Slick]

Elway's going to steal Luck from the pill popping alcoholic. No way Andrew wants to spend 6 months a year for the next 10 years of his life living in a city like Indianapolis.

[slim]

Elway's going to steal Luck from the pill popping alcoholic. No way Andrew wants to spend 6 months a year for the next 10 years of his life living in a city like Indianapolis.

ALL Colts QB #1 picks are destined to win championships in Denver

All of them...

[EastCoastBronco]

Luck would be a perfect fit for this team.
I like his attitude.

[slim]

I guess now that LA has traded up to #1 this made up trade scenario won't actually happen.

[Ravage!!!]

Elway's going to steal Luck from the pill popping alcoholic. No way Andrew wants to spend 6 months a year for the next 10 years of his life living in a city like Indianapolis.

yeah.. because he's so much different than Manning?

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

First of all its debatable that Taylor is even close to Kaep.

You don't trade premium picks for proven commodities, especially proven a commodity as limited as Taylor. This would further pervert the QB market, it'd be more stupid than giving $18 MM to Osweiler. This, would be Josh McDaniels stupid.

You're like Donald Trump with a vocabulary. This place wouldn't be the same without you.

[Cugel]

Oz looked like a good pick till he split. Cutler at least wasn't a bust and has had some highs. Tebow was yea....

I'm just being blindly homer. IDK.

You're being right. Cutler has been a starter in the NFL for 10 years now. If he isn't a top 10 QB that doesn't mean he's a total failure.

Osweiler was a late 2nd round pick. So, how was that a failure? He helped the Broncos win a SB. If they didn't win those games with Osweiler, they don't host the AFC Championship.

As for Tebow - that was McMoron's insanity. No question, the best thing Elway ever did as GM was get rid of that turd.

[Cugel]

Quote Originally Posted by Slick View Post
Elway's going to steal Luck from the pill popping alcoholic. No way Andrew wants to spend 6 months a year for the next 10 years of his life living in a city like Indianapolis.

Huh? :confused:

[Poet]

Indy's not a bad place to live...

[Cugel]

I guess now that LA has traded up to #1 this made up trade scenario won't actually happen.

Well, it was never going to happen anyway, because it was some bullshit internet rumor started (supposedly) by some Browns fan, that has been denied by all three teams.

But, it would be a great deal for the Browns. They would get a boatload of picks. It would be a great deal for the Broncos, because you're not getting a QB who could start this season at #31.

#31 is not a great pick. Maybe you can find a pro-bowl player at some positions, but not very likely at QB and certainly not this year when the top 4 QBs (Wentz, Goff, Cook & Paxton Lynch) are probably already off the board, and the best prospect available is probably Dak Prescott who is a 2nd or 3rd round developmental pick.

After listening to experts, including panning Connor Cook all afternoon yesterday I'm not thrilled about getting him anyway.

But, this deal is a pretty bad one for Buffalo.

[BroncoJoe]

Oz nearly cost us the opportunity to host the AFC Championship game.

[Slick]

yeah.. because he's so much different than Manning?


Huh? :confused:

Slim and Chazoe got it. I wasn't being serious. Indy's not going to let Luck go anywhere.

[slim]

Indy's not a bad place to live...

It's not a good place to live, either.

[TXBRONC]

I'd take Tyrod Taylor for a first in a heartbeat. He's a proven commodity. He finished 7th in QB rating despite being in his first year as a starter and on a garbage offense. He's a dual threat QB that can read a defense far better than Kaepernick and he's getting ready to come into his prime. That's more than you're going to get with the 31st pick in the draft.

Elway is also not giving up a first without a new contract in hand. I don't know if this rumor has any merit to it, but I'd be thrilled if it happened.

I wouldn't. Taylor has all of one year as starter and I wouldn't say he was all that great.

[VonDoom]

I wouldn't. Taylor has all of one year as starter and I wouldn't say he was all that great.

I'll play Devil's advocate on Taylor - he had a 99.4 passer rating, completed 63.7% and had a TD/INT ratio of 20/6.

For the sake of comparison, in 8 games, Osweiler had an 86.4 passer rating, 61.8% completion and a 10/6 ratio.

[Cugel]

I'd take Tyrod Taylor for the #1 pick in a heartbeat. Here's why:

#1 - The Rams trade up to #1 means Kaepernick isn't coming here. The 49ers at #7 will not have a chance to draft either of the top 2 QBs now. Before the trade they could hope that Goff fell to #7. Now, unless they want Paxton Lynch they're looking at other options because Goff & Wentz will be gone.

So they pretty much have to keep Kaepernick now and maybe take a developmental QB later in the draft.

#2 - With Cook, Lynch, Goff and Wentz off the boards at #31 - which is looking more and more likely, there's really not a viable first round QB prospect left. Prescott is a 2nd or 3rd round prospect and you don't want to reach. Taylor would provide more value than anybody left on the board because he's a QB.

The Broncos could trade extra picks to move up 5 or 10 picks and have a shot at Cook, but why bother? Taylor is a better QB and they wouldn't be giving up any extra picks.

#3 Taylor is entering his prime and is ready to start now. So, the Broncos would have Taylor and Sanchez. One would start and one backup. Taylor is unhappy because he's getting $3M in 2016. The Broncos wanted to pay Kaepernick $7M. They could give Taylor that and he'd be happy.

All in all, it's a deal that totally makes sense for the Broncos.

But, the Bills would be stupid to let him go. Unless they give up a boatload of picks to move up to #2 they aren't even getting Goff. And they might not think he's worth it anyway.

They should just pay him $7 or $8M this year with an option at the average NFL starting QB price in 2017. I don't know why they haven't done it already. But, making him play out his contract doesn't make any sense. He becomes an UFA at season's end. They could franchise him in 2017, but that would mean a $20M cap hit.

There's NO WAY a team wants a $20M cap hit. Even if you're going to pay your QB $20M (which might be more than he's worth after all), you can at least structure the contract so that part is a signing bonus so the team gets maybe 1/2 of that in cap relief.

[Poet]

Tyrod's one 'good' season includes low yard, low TD's, and an inflated completion percentage and QBR. Sans this year he has done nothing noteworthy in the NFL. I don't understand why anyone would give a first round draft pick for him.

[Cugel]

Tyrod's one 'good' season includes low yard, low TD's, and an inflated completion percentage and QBR. Sans this year he has done nothing noteworthy in the NFL. I don't understand why anyone would give a first round draft pick for him.

Don't let it bother you. The Bills aren't likely to trade him anyway. This was an internet rumor that was denied by all 3 teams.

Some people like me think it would be a good idea. Alfred Williams rated the 3 "available" QBs in terms of who he'd like to see go to the Broncos as #1 Tyrod Taylor, #2 Kaepernick.

But, if you don't agree, it's not likely you will be booing the deal cause it's almost certainly not happening. Bills probably aren't that stupid. If they trade Taylor, who's their QB? EJ Manuel? Urf! :shocked:

If they could have gotten up to #2 (Cleveland) for Tyrod Taylor and a boat-load of picks, fine. They could take Wentz and be happy. But, now he's going #1 to the Rams so that ain't happening.

[Simple Jaded]

You're like Donald Trump with a vocabulary. This place wouldn't be the same without you.
The Jaded.

I do have a killer vocabulary, thank you Word of the Day toilet paper.

[dogfish]

Bills probably aren't that stupid. If they trade Taylor, who's their QB? EJ Manuel? Urf! :shocked:



rex ryan does have a mark sanchez tattoo. . . just putting that out there. . .


:cool:

[slim]

Tyrod's one 'good' season includes low yard, low TD's, and an inflated completion percentage and QBR. Sans this year he has done nothing noteworthy in the NFL. I don't understand why anyone would give a first round draft pick for him.
What inflated his % and QBR?

[BroncoJoe]

What inflated his % and QBR?

No idea what he's talking about, but I'd guess he will state short passes. He throws a nice long ball, but the Bills ran the ball a lot, and were successful at it.

Tyrod didn't start all 16 games either - he was injured for two of them.

[slim]

No idea what he's talking about, but I'd guess he will state short passes. He throws a nice long ball, but the Bills ran the ball a lot, and were successful at it.

Tyrod didn't start all 16 games either - he was injured for two of them.

Yes. But overall, as a first year starter, he was pretty good.

He played better than Brock last year, which is an interesting comparison. I think they were in the same draft class and both in their first year of starting.

[BroncoJoe]

Yes. But overall, as a first year starter, he was pretty good.

He played better than Brock last year, which is an interesting comparison. I think they were in the same draft class and both in their first year of starting.

I like Tyrod. I wouldn't mind this trade at all because you're targeting someone who has NFL experience and has worked with Kubiak. Far better IMO than a total unknown QB coming out of college that we use that same pick on. I'm just not impressed with any of the QB's in this years draft class. I also do not want Kaepernick here.

Either way it works out, I'll support whoever is our QB on September 8th.

[slim]

I like Tyrod. I wouldn't mind this trade at all because you're targeting someone who has NFL experience and has worked with Kubiak. Far better IMO than a total unknown QB coming out of college that we use that same pick on. I'm just not impressed with any of the QB's in this years draft class. I also do not want Kaepernick here.

Either way it works out, I'll support whoever is our QB on September 8th.

Agree. They probably aren't going to get a QB with their first pick anyway, unless they trade up and then you are using multiple picks on an unknown.

I would take Tyrod in a heartbeat over that sad scenario.

[dogfish]

Agree. They probably aren't going to get a QB with their first pick anyway

IMO, it kinda feels like we could move either direction if john is determined to take a QB with our top pick. . . up for lynch or cook-- or maybe we move down if we're going to take one of the third-tier guys like prescott, hackenburg or hogan. . .

[underrated29]

IMO, it kinda feels like we could move either direction if john is determined to take a QB with our top pick. . . up for lynch or cook-- or maybe we move down if we're going to take one of the third-tier guys like prescott, hackenburg or hogan. . .



I keep watching as much as I can on Prescott because of our High interest levels in him. I dont see it. I do not see why they like him. Why they think he will work out. To me he is Geno smith, Tim Tebow or a worse Vince Young. For the life of me I just do not see how we like him. He is pretty much everything Elway does not like in a QB. Now maybe the rumors are true that he can read a defense really well and work through his progressions quickly and I just do not see it because of the weird offense they run, but damn. If it were my I would take him in the 7th rd or later. Driskell, hogan, hack, Cardale, Adams, I like all of them significantly better.

I have yet to watch Cook.

[slim]

IMO, it kinda feels like we could move either direction if john is determined to take a QB with our top pick. . . up for lynch or cook-- or maybe we move down if we're going to take one of the third-tier guys like prescott, hackenburg or hogan. . .

I think it's more likely we stay put and take a lineman or LB and then look at someone like Hogan later in the draft.

[Joel]

Tyrod's one 'good' season includes low yard, low TD's, and an inflated completion percentage and QBR. Sans this year he has done nothing noteworthy in the NFL. I don't understand why anyone would give a first round draft pick for him.
*PR, and behold everything wrong with it. Remember: Ortons PR in Denver (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/O/OrtoKy00.htm) was an above average 85.7; his win/loss record was 12-21. But >60% completions!

[dogfish]

I think it's more likely we stay put and take a lineman or LB and then look at someone like Hogan later in the draft.

that would be my preference, and i won't be surprised if that's exactly what we do. . . just depends on how badly the duke wants a QB, and whether there's one he wants specifically-- if there is, we've all seen how aggressively he will move to get what he wants. . . myself, i'd be happy with an OT like jason spriggs at 31, or a DL like a'shawn robinson or nkemdiche. . .

[slim]

that would be my preference, and i won't be surprised if that's exactly what we do. . . just depends on how badly the duke wants a QB, and whether there's one he wants specifically-- if there is, we've all seen how aggressively he will move to get what he wants. . . myself, i'd be happy with an OT like jason spriggs at 31, or a DL like a'shawn robinson or nkemdiche. . .

Nkemdiche would be a steal.

[Simple Jaded]

"Pretty good" stats is worth about a 4th or 5th round pick, not a premium pick, I don't care how desperate you are at QB. Sanchez was/is "pretty good", conditional 7th.

If the best thing you can say is "he knows the system" you need to keep looking, Case Keenum and TJ Yates know the system.

[Simple Jaded]

"Pretty good" stats is worth about a 4th or 5th round pick, not a premium pick, I don't care how desperate you are at QB. Sanchez was/is "pretty good", conditional 7th.

If the best thing you can say is "he knows the system" you need to keep looking, Case Keenum and TJ Yates know the system.
Hell, I'm fairly sure I'm the only who even likes Kubiak's system, how is trading a1st rounder for another one of his rejects so popular?

Owen Daniels is the only retread they got any use out of, Shelley Smith, Trex Gradkowski, his taste in players is hideous.

[Davii]

Hell, I'm fairly sure I'm the only who even likes Kubiak's system, how is trading a1st rounder for another one of his rejects so popular?

Owen Daniels is the only retread they got any use out of, Shelley Smith, Trex Gradkowski, his taste in players is hideous.

I don't think Elway gives Kubiak that much say in personnel

[Northman]

Hell, I'm fairly sure I'm the only who even likes Kubiak's system, how is trading a1st rounder for another one of his rejects so popular?

Owen Daniels is the only retread they got any use out of, Shelley Smith, Trex Gradkowski, his taste in players is hideous.

I dont necessarily hate Kubes's system but in reality it should be far more productive offensively than it was last year. Im also concerned with his tendency at times to not adjust throughout a game. That first meeting with Pitt was very concerning because we should of really walked away with that game.

[Simple Jaded]

I dont necessarily hate Kubes's system but in reality it should be far more productive offensively than it was last year. Im also concerned with his tendency at times to not adjust throughout a game. That first meeting with Pitt was very concerning because we should of really walked away with that game.

This OL helps things, imo, he'll still be run-first but they should be able to run more effectively. Fans looking for progressive offense will again be disappointed.

[Simple Jaded]

I don't think Elway gives Kubiak that much say in personnel

I blame all the bad moves on Kub.

[Joel]

Hell, I'm fairly sure I'm the only who even likes Kubiak's system
*Ahem* Remember when I said Manning should've gone to Kubiak and Wade in Houston and won tons of SBs with a team that had everything BUT a QB, and everyone said I was loopy because Kubiak's just an overrated choking system coach? Oh, how we laughed....

Kubiak's such an elite coach he made a Broncos fan out of a Bengals fan convinced he sucks. :tongue:


how is trading a1st rounder for another one of his rejects so popular?

Owen Daniels is the only retread they got any use out of, Shelley Smith, Trex Gradkowski, his taste in players is hideous.
The difference is he actually knows QBs VERY well, as proven by a consistent record of getting high performance out of literally EVERY starter he's had for 20 years. Sure he started with Young and Elway, but after that he had nothing but an endless series of busts, flame outs and journeyman until he got Manning (yeah, I know what you're thinking, but when a major sports publication has column with a weekly meter measuring whether you're elite or a bum, you're neither.)

Also, Ryan Harris was the best of a pretty awful situation last year.

[Poet]

Kubiak is an overrated system coach. The offense sucked this year, and the defense carried the team. Phillips > Kubiak.

[Joel]

Kubiak is an overrated system coach. The offense sucked this year, and the defense carried the team. Phillips > Kubiak.
Offense sucked so hard a 40-year-old with a walker won his first 7 games, then a guy who'd NEVER started beat BOTH the AFCs only other contenders, then the 40-year-old became the oldest QB to win a SB and only one to do it with different teams, all while playing 6-man football. I love Wades whole family as only native Houstonian Oilers fans like I and Kubiak can, but the reality is Wade's built tons of elite Ds and still needed Elway at QB to reach his only other SBs.

2013 Baltimore Ravens 8-8




Tot Yds & TO




Passing
Rushing


Average Drive




PF
Yds
TO
FL
1stD
Att
Yds
TD
Int
NY/A
Att
Yds
TD
Y/A
Sc%
TO%
Start
Time
Plays
Yds
Pts


Lg Rank Offense
25
29
22
2
24
8
18
25
31
30
18
30
28
32
22
13
8
26
18
31
26



2014 Baltimore Ravens (i.e. Kubiaks ONE year as OC) 10-6






Tot Yds & TO




Passing
Rushing


Average Drive




PF
Yds
TO
FL
1stD
Att
Yds
TD
Int
NY/A
Att
Yds
TD
Y/A
Sc%
TO%
Start
Time
Plays
Yds
Pts


Lg Rank Offense
8
12
6
9
10
17
13
12
8
12
11
8
5
7
7
25
11
18
14
9
8



2015 Baltimore Ravens 5-11







Tot Yds & TO




Passing
Rushing


Average Drive




PF
Yds
TO
FL
1stD
Att
Yds
TD
Int
NY/A
Att
Yds
TD
Y/A
Sc%
TO%
Start
Time
Plays
Yds
Pts


Lg Rank Offense
25
14
22
2
16
1
8
23
29
22
25
26
21
24
20
10
17
15
5
15
22



Career record, Kubiak v. Marvin Lewis: 5-0, including 2 playoff wins, one with a 5th round rookie QB starting.

"System coach" was kind of tongue in cheek: A team winning because of a great SYSTEM and DESPITE lack of talent is probably the greatest possible coaching accomplishment. Doubly so when every player, to a man, totally buys in for 60:00/gm (or more...) 19 gms/year until those "all 53 players" and "EVERYONE has an important job to do all the time" mantras obligatory for ANY coach stop sounding hoaky and start sounding sacred.

Saying Wade won us the SB despite Kubiak is like saying Manning won us the SB despite Oz (or vice versa; whichever one wants to designate which.) It was truly a TEAM win, from the HC down to the waterboy, and like that ever week. But that reflects more on the coaches than anyone, and the HC more than any other.

But hey, if all those people who spent all season saying, "Kubiak's an incompetent choker, he sucks; let's just SEE what happens to Denver," want to double down on that after he accomplished the seemingly impossible task seemingly inevitable for Fox (who nonetheless never managed it) that just makes it sweeter. :)

[sneakers]

who the devil is Tyrod Taylor?

[Poet]

What did the offense actually do this year? Answer - Nothing. What did the defense do this year?

Answer - Almost all of the heavy lifting.

Is being a better head coach than Marvin Lewis much of an accomplishment? Answer - No.

Does Joel's argumentation serve as a rebuttal? Answer - No.

[Simple Jaded]

who the devil is Tyrod Taylor?

Case Keenum with a better arm and a tan.

[silkamilkamonico]

What did the offense actually do this year? Answer - Nothing. What did the defense do this year?

Answer - Almost all of the heavy lifting.

Is being a better head coach than Marvin Lewis much of an accomplishment? Answer - No.

Does Joel's argumentation serve as a rebuttal? Answer - No.

I'm pretty sure Joel thinks we won the SuperBowl this year because of the offense.

[TXBRONC]

Case Keenum with a better arm and a tan.

I love ya man. We don't always see eye to eye but you are colorful in your descriptions of players. :D

[7DnBrnc53]

who the devil is Tyrod Taylor?

That's the same thing one of my friends was wondering. He called him Tyrone Taylor.

[Cugel]

I don't think Elway gives Kubiak that much say in personnel

Elway is not going to draft anybody Kubiak doesn't want. Elway has the final decision, but they are a team. Kubiak is a personal friend going back to his playing days. Kubiak is HIS coach - the guy he wanted when he first arrived.

Their decisions are jointly arrived at. It would be inconceivable if Kubiak didn't like a player and Elway went ahead and drafted him anyway -- like the way Marty Shottenheimer and A. J. Smith battled each other in San Diego (Shottenheimer wanted Drew Brees, but Smith wanted Philip Rivers and got rid of Brees).

[Joel]

What did the offense actually do this year? Answer - Nothing. What did the defense do this year?

Answer - Almost all of the heavy lifting.

Is being a better head coach than Marvin Lewis much of an accomplishment? Answer - No.

Does Joel's argumentation serve as a rebuttal? Answer - No.
This just in: Denvers offense was so awful BEFORE Kubiak that the guys running it are in Chicago and Miami now. Hell, most of the league, including former Broncos, spent most of last year publicly calling our line an embarrassment, which is why most of the starters were cut—then BOTH OTs had season-ending injuries by the end of September. Any of that Kubiaks fault, or was it just a MASSIVE obstacle he overcame to lead a team to its first SB championship in 20 years?

Baltimore going from a bottom 10 also-ran offense before and after Kubiak to a top 10 playoff offense with him speaks volumes about his ability. Likewise Houstons expansion team whipping boys suddenly becoming respectable playoff teams, even contenders, with him, only to get blown out of their own stadium without him, in a playoff game they only got to host because the AFCS was the conferences worst division and Denver liquefied Lucks organs midseason.

We'll see what happens with a fully rebuilt line and a QB who neither got his first SS check nor shave last week. Kubiaks record, all the way back to Youngs 'Niners, is consistently encouraging (though I do wish we had more than Sanchez under center.)

[Poet]

Fox's offense wasn't why he was fired, Joel.

Kubiak is a fine coordinator. So was Marvin Lewis. It also took quite some time for Kubiak to turn the Texans into a 'respectable team', and several teams his team was projected to make the playoffs and failed to do so. He stuck around in Houston longer than a lot of other people would have.

[BroncoJoe]

Denver's offense was awful before Kubiak?

[underrated29]

Denver's offense was awful before Kubiak?



The last 8 weeks with gase were pretty bad

[slim]

The last 8 weeks with gase were pretty bad

Yes, once Manning "got hurt" the offense was pretty bad.

[dogfish]

bill freakin' walsh couldn't have coached a decent performance out of last year's offensive personnel. . . that's how it goes when you have a corpse of a QB and third-string O-tackles. . . this year's probably not going to be great, either. . . it happens when you decide to spend the bulk of your resources on defense. . . personally, i'm great with it-- give me results over style points. . .

:defense:

[Poet]

Dog, you're not wrong. I'm just baffled at the notion that Fox was fired because of the offense. That's not why he was fired. FFS Fox had already started looking to get out of Denver.

[slim]

He was fired because the team consistently under performed in big games.

[dogfish]

Dog, you're not wrong. I'm just baffled at the notion that Fox was fired because of the offense. That's not why he was fired. FFS Fox had already started looking to get out of Denver.

wut? you just lost me. . . sometimes i skim read. . . who said he was fired because of the offense? i never said that, and wouldn't agree with it, because it's clearly not accurate. . .

[Cugel]

Fox was fired because the team didn't show heart when they needed it most.


“As long as we go out kicking and screaming, that’s all we can do,” said John Elway. “But if we don’t do that then there’s an issue. That’s why I think this staff’s got the right mindset. Gary’s got the right mindset.”

They had almost the same defensive personnel as in 2014, and they wound up with the exact same 12-4 record, yet the end result was totally different. Kicking and screaming.

[DenBronx]

Wade Phillips was the same defensive personnel?

Don't think so. He really set the tempo and got the best out of the defense. Way different mindset from 2014.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Wade Phillips was the same defensive personnel?

Don't think so. He really set the tempo and got the best out of the defense. Way different mindset from 2014.

Personnel...players not coaches.

[NightTerror218]

Yes, once Manning "got hurt" the offense was pretty bad.

You mean once he wore out.

[Davii]

I guess the Philly trade makes this thread pointless from here on out.

[Traveler]

I guess the Philly trade makes this thread pointless from here on out.

Not just yet. My sources say to look for another big transaction between CLE and DEN during the draft. The Browns are doing the heavy lifting for now. Just keep this between us. Okay?

[Davii]

Not just yet. My sources say to look for another big transaction between CLE and DEN during the draft. The Browns are doing the heavy lifting for now. Just keep this between us. Okay?

Done and done

[OrangeHoof]

Dumb idea but just might work:

Buffalo sends to Denver QB Tyrod Taylor
San Francisco sends to Buffalo QB Colin Kaepernick
San Francisco receives Buffalo's second-round pick (#49) and Denver's fifth-round pick (#144)

Denver gets Taylor for a 5th (very fair)
Buffalo upgrades at QB for a 2nd but must also absorb Kaep's salary
SF gets a mid-2nd and a high-5th for Kaep when they were willing to take less from Denver straight up.

Taylor is no long-term answer at QB but he does have the running ability and decent passing to make Kube's system work. Plus his $3 mil salary fits under our cap plus he only costs a 5th-rounder.

[DenBronx]

Dumb idea but just might work:

Buffalo sends to Denver QB Tyrod Taylor
San Francisco sends to Buffalo QB Colin Kaepernick
San Francisco receives Buffalo's second-round pick (#49) and Denver's fifth-round pick (#144)

Denver gets Taylor for a 5th (very fair)
Buffalo upgrades at QB for a 2nd but must also absorb Kaep's salary
SF gets a mid-2nd and a high-5th for Kaep when they were willing to take less from Denver straight up.

Taylor is no long-term answer at QB but he does have the running ability and decent passing to make Kube's system work. Plus his $3 mil salary fits under our cap plus he only costs a 5th-rounder.

That would be highway robbery.

I'd like Taylor for that and out of all of the scrubs that are left he is the best option. But no way Buffalo lets him go that cheap AND give up a 2nd rounder. If Buffalo got picks back plus Kap then maybe.

Really our options are Hoyer, Fitzpatrick, Kap and some sort of trade for Taylor, Bradford or whoever else is wanting to make a deal.

Taylor does seem to fit Kubes style offense and he isn't a thug like Kap so that is a plus.

[OrangeHoof]

If it came close, you could tweak the draft choices a little and see if all parties are happy. SF would be clearing cap space and adding picks but their whole view may have changed now that they're forced to pay that April 1st bonus.

I'd rather have Taylor than Kaep, personally.

[Simple Jaded]

Tyrod Taylor fits Kubes system?

Stop me when I get to a Tyrod Taylor type of QB.

Joe Flacco
TJ Yates
Matt Schaub
Jake Plummer
Bradley Van Pelt
Stave Beuerlein
Gus Frerotte
Brian Griese
John Elway
Peyton Manning
Brock Osweiler

I keep hearing/reading about So and So (Kaep, Taylor, Prescott, et all) "fits the system" but so far you've all been completely full of shit.

[TXBRONC]

bill freakin' walsh couldn't have coached a decent performance out of last year's offensive personnel. . . that's how it goes when you have a corpse of a QB and third-string O-tackles. . . this year's probably not going to be great, either. . . it happens when you decide to spend the bulk of your resources on defense. . . personally, i'm great with it-- give me results over style points. . .

:defense:

That's not say Denver doesn't need better results out of the offense.

[TXBRONC]

Wade Phillips was the same defensive personnel?

Don't think so. He really set the tempo and got the best out of the defense. Way different mindset from 2014.

He's talking about the players Den. Stewart was only new starter on the defense.

[OrangeHoof]

Tyrod Taylor fits Kubes system?

Stop me when I get to a Tyrod Taylor type of QB.

Joe Flacco
TJ Yates
Matt Schaub
Jake Plummer
Bradley Van Pelt
Stave Beuerlein
Gus Frerotte
Brian Griese
John Elway
Peyton Manning
Brock Osweiler

I keep hearing/reading about So and So (Kaep, Taylor, Prescott, et all) "fits the system" but so far you've all been completely full of shit.

Fair point but the guy on that list who was truly a Kubiak system guy was Jake Plummer, someone who runs bootlegs, can pass deep downfield and can also take off running. That's who we mean by "fits the system". Yes, Elway could do that too but most of the others were not Kubiak system guys but guys Kubiak had to adapt to his system. Clearly, Flacco and Manning did not fit his system but they were the entrenched QB when Kubes got there.

[TXBRONC]

Fair point but the guy on that list who was truly a Kubiak system guy was Jake Plummer, someone who runs bootlegs, can pass deep downfield and can also take off running. That's who we mean by "fits the system". Yes, Elway could do that too but most of the others were not Kubiak system guys but guys Kubiak had to adapt to his system. Clearly, Flacco and Manning did not fit his system but they were the entrenched QB when Kubes got there.

Flacco ran boot legs as well. He actually throws fairly well when he is on the move.

[Simple Jaded]

Fair point but the guy on that list who was truly a Kubiak system guy was Jake Plummer, someone who runs bootlegs, can pass deep downfield and can also take off running. That's who we mean by "fits the system". Yes, Elway could do that too but most of the others were not Kubiak system guys but guys Kubiak had to adapt to his system. Clearly, Flacco and Manning did not fit his system but they were the entrenched QB when Kubes got there.
My main point is people seem to stereotype what fits at the exclusion of anything else, the fact is they all "fit". If anything, history excludes the nearly every single name thrown against the wall.

You don't need to run 4.4's to fit this system, that has literally never been the case, and I'm sensing that people think this offense lends itself to being a good fit for the neophyte Zone-read, mocha, choka bullshit offenses they ran in college because it "QB friendly". It wasn't too long ago when the narrative was that it took 3 years to fully grasp the system.

[OrangeHoof]

It is QB-friendly if you have a solid running game opponents have to respect. Then you ask your QB just to take what's there and don't do anything stupid. The problem with most college QBs is that they can't read the defense to check out of the play that runs right into the blitz. Or they don't have the poise to stay under control, something Russell Wilson is remarkable about.

[Cugel]

The discussion was "why was John Fox fired" and the answer, according to Elway was lack of heart in the playoffs. That's why he keeps saying that if only the team shows "kicking and screaming" then he can't complain. Nothing could be clearer. John Fox didn't get the team to show that intensity. Elway knows first hand the kind of focus it takes to win a championship, Fox doesn't and never will.

You can't judge the Kubiak offense from what we saw last season. The OL was beyond horrible and 4 of the SB starters were benched or released. So, it's pretty clear what the message is. They will be a lot more consistent on offense this year.

[Simple Jaded]

Speaking of the offense going forward, Ty Polumbus was on with Lammey and said he thinks they will actually look for a true FB.

[MOtorboat]

Speaking of the offense going forward, Ty Polumbus was on with Lammey and said he thinks they will actually look for a true FB.

What a waste.

[Davii]

What a waste.

The FB position or Polumbus? If FB, I agree, waste of a roster spot.

[MOtorboat]

The FB position or Polumbus? If FB, I agree, waste of a roster spot.

FB position. No, not Polumbus.

[Timmy!]

Booooooo! Boooooo and Davii! Booooooo.

#bringbackthefb
#fblivesmatter
#howardgriffithapproves

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Whether or not it's a waste depends on the player. Elway and Kubiak weren't dumb enough to have a fullback on the roster last year just for the sake of having a fullback. Imo, if end up with a fullback on the roster this year it will be because he's one of our best 52.

[Simple Jaded]

Whether or not it's a waste depends on the player. Elway and Kubiak weren't dumb enough to have a fullback on the roster last year just for the sake of having a fullback. Imo, if end up with a fullback on the roster this year it will be because he's one of our best 52.

Polumbus said he's played in this system and it needs a FB, and that they didn't line up often because it was still geared toward what Manning wanted to do. Personally, I hope they put Green back there more often, which means they probably won't.

[Simple Jaded]

FB position. No, not Polumbus.

Polumbus too.

Btw, have you looked into this A-11 offense? It's right up your alley.

[turftoad]

Why would we draft a FB when we have Ronnie Hillman!?

[Northman]

Why would we draft a FB when we have Ronnie Hillman!?

:lol:

[TXBRONC]

Why would we draft a FB when we have Ronnie Hillman!?

Because it would make Hillman unstoppable.