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View Full Version : NFL Competition Committee Move Touchback to 25 ***MERGED***



Northman
03-22-2016, 12:42 PM
http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/200481/nfl-one-step-closer-to-eliminating-kickoff-returns?sf22963065=1


BOCA RATON, Fla. -- One day, it has long been assumed, the NFL will outlaw the kickoff. It's one of the most dangerous plays in football, a sub-concussive factory, and as New York Giants (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/nyg/new-york-giants) owner John Mara said just this week (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/15028094/john-mara-new-york-giants-startled-rise-diagnosed-concussions-2015-season): "You've got to do whatever you can to protect [players]."Here's another idea: What if the league manages a passive end to the kickoff, one that functionally eliminates its impact without formally banning it?
We might be moving in that direction already, and there will be no doubt if owners approve a proposal to move the touchback to the 25-yard line for 2016. The NFL competition committee has endorsed the idea, and a vote is expected here this week.

Next it will be punt returns and guys like Norwood (who had a great return in the SB) will be out of a job. :lol:

VonDoom
03-22-2016, 12:55 PM
http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/200481/nfl-one-step-closer-to-eliminating-kickoff-returns?sf22963065=1



Next it will be punt returns and guys like Norwood (who had a great return in the SB) will be out of a job. :lol:

It's not happening this year, anyway. Competition committee passed rule changes today and this wasn't one of them.

OrangeHoof
03-22-2016, 12:56 PM
I think eliminating the kick for PAT is easier and changes nothing. I agree the kickoff return has probably had more crippling results than any other play. If they still want some excitement, make the kickoff like target practice - @ the 40 if out of bounds, @20 if over the end line @15 if kick dies in the end zone, @25 if dies in the field of play, @5 if dies in end zone between the hashes...

weazel
03-22-2016, 12:59 PM
I think this is a perfect example of what they should do for kickoffs.

http://catchingbutterfly.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/butterflycatching.jpg

King87
03-22-2016, 01:03 PM
I hate special teams as it is, so anything to lessen its importance I would support.

Northman
03-22-2016, 01:16 PM
I wonder if they will change this at the collegiate and high school level as well? I mean, the NFL shouldnt be exclusive when it comes to player safety.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
03-22-2016, 01:19 PM
Punt returns are more exciting to me anyway. There is much more gamesmanship involved.

King87
03-22-2016, 01:26 PM
Punt returns are more exciting to me anyway. There is much more gamesmanship involved.

I hate punt returns. I wish there was a way to get rid of those, too.

NightTrainLayne
03-22-2016, 01:42 PM
If they get rid of kick-offs, they eliminate on-side kicks. I don't see them ever doing this.

King87
03-22-2016, 01:47 PM
If they get rid of kick-offs, they eliminate on-side kicks. I don't see them ever doing this.

Get rid of that shit, too.

You're correct, though. The alternative would mean that if teams wanted to ever use the onsides kick everyone would literally know it was coming because, well der, the we're not starting with the ball on our 20 automatically. Which would also mean that teams would carry a kicker for like five snaps a year.

But god I hate special teams.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
03-22-2016, 01:53 PM
Onside kicks are horribly dangerous. They should do away with those at the same time.

King87
03-22-2016, 01:56 PM
Onside kicks are horribly dangerous. They should do away with those at the same time.

They're just so ******* lame. Like you're losing, you probably deserve to lose the game, your big chance is to kick a ball just over ten yards and hope you recover a football on a quasi-fluke play.

weazel
03-22-2016, 02:02 PM
they should stop playing all together or just get rid of tackling. Maybe just tickle the guy down or something.


keeper seems to hate everything about the game except for 3 yard runs.

King87
03-22-2016, 02:05 PM
they should stop playing all together or just get rid of tackling. Maybe just tickle the guy down or something.


keeper seems to hate everything about the game except for 3 yard runs.

I love sacks, TD's, safeties, big hits over the middle, flea flickers, pick sixes, zone blitzing, the playaction. I love the meat and potato of footballs. Not tertiary garbage.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
03-22-2016, 02:15 PM
They're just so ******* lame. Like you're losing, you probably deserve to lose the game, your big chance is to kick a ball just over ten yards and hope you recover a football on a quasi-fluke play.

While having a 50/50 probability someone gets concussed on the play.

slim
03-22-2016, 02:35 PM
I get the feeling King doesn't care for special teams.

weazel
03-22-2016, 02:39 PM
that's because the Bengals have never fielded one.

King87
03-22-2016, 03:16 PM
that's because the Bengals have never fielded one.

Are you kidding me? The Bengals have one of the most special series of teams in the 90's. Special doesn't always mean good, Weazel.

BroncoJoe
03-22-2016, 04:38 PM
Rick Upchurch is weeping.

weazel
03-22-2016, 06:04 PM
Are you kidding me? The Bengals have one of the most special series of teams in the 90's. Special doesn't always mean good, Weazel.

lol I had two ways of going with that and I chose the politically correct route... a total miss!

DenBronx
03-22-2016, 06:42 PM
I guess I'm one of the few that likes special teams and thinks that is should be left alone. When you add ALL of it up, kickoffs, punts, onside kicks, PAT, go for 2 and the field goals it plays a massive role in the outcome of the game.

The game would be very boring if you just started the teams at the 20 yard line at the beginning of the game or after a team scored.

I think I'd quit watching football all together.

BroncoWave
03-22-2016, 07:31 PM
I think I'd quit watching football all together.

If this means you'll quit posting too then I hope they get rid of special teams yesterday. :D

King87
03-22-2016, 07:32 PM
I guess I'm one of the few that likes special teams and thinks that is should be left alone. When you add ALL of it up, kickoffs, punts, onside kicks, PAT, go for 2 and the field goals it plays a massive role in the outcome of the game.

The game would be very boring if you just started the teams at the 20 yard line at the beginning of the game or after a team scored.

I think I'd quit watching football all together.

I wouldn't get rid of the PA or 2pt conversions. I just really hate kickers, man. You gotta understand that I hate kickers like no other.

Dapper Dan
03-22-2016, 07:55 PM
When I play football at the park we always start from a certain spot. No kick returns. No punts.

King87
03-22-2016, 07:59 PM
I ******* hate kickers, man. **** them forever and a day.

DenBronx
03-22-2016, 08:08 PM
I think I'd quit watching football all together.

If this means you'll quit posting too then I hope they get rid of special teams yesterday. :D


Wtf? This was uncalled for, out of left field and out of the blue. What in the hell did I ever do to you? Did someone piss in your Wheaties today?

DenBronx
03-22-2016, 08:09 PM
I guess I'm one of the few that likes special teams and thinks that is should be left alone. When you add ALL of it up, kickoffs, punts, onside kicks, PAT, go for 2 and the field goals it plays a massive role in the outcome of the game.

The game would be very boring if you just started the teams at the 20 yard line at the beginning of the game or after a team scored.

I think I'd quit watching football all together.

I wouldn't get rid of the PA or 2pt conversions. I just really hate kickers, man. You gotta understand that I hate kickers like no other.

Lol why do you hate kickers? They can determine the outcome of a game. Pretty important position I would think.

King87
03-22-2016, 08:14 PM
Lol why do you hate kickers? They can determine the outcome of a game. Pretty important position I would think.

It sucks that such an otherwise mediocre person is so pivotal. They fact that such relevance is placed into the hands, or leg I suppose, or a person who plays so little bothers me. Look at Jim Kelly, he doesn't have a ring by in large because of a kicker. Look at Tom Brady, he has several rings that other players have only because his kicker was better than theirs. It would be like having a sick ass lawyer work an entire case and then letting an office intern deliver closing statements. **** that shit, man.

BroncoWave
03-22-2016, 08:16 PM
Wtf? This was uncalled for, out of left field and out of the blue. What in the hell did I ever do to you? Did someone piss in your Wheaties today?

After you take the stick out of your ass, notice the smiley I put at the end of the post. Someone's wheaties got pissed in today but they weren't mine. :lol:

DenBronx
03-22-2016, 08:20 PM
Wtf? This was uncalled for, out of left field and out of the blue. What in the hell did I ever do to you? Did someone piss in your Wheaties today?

After you take the stick out of your ass, notice the smiley I put at the end of the post. Someone's wheaties got pissed in today but they weren't mine. :lol:


It's up there pretty far but need help getting it back out.

DenBronx
03-22-2016, 08:25 PM
Lol why do you hate kickers? They can determine the outcome of a game. Pretty important position I would think.

It sucks that such an otherwise mediocre person is so pivotal. They fact that such relevance is placed into the hands, or leg I suppose, or a person who plays so little bothers me. Look at Jim Kelly, he doesn't have a ring by in large because of a kicker. Look at Tom Brady, he has several rings that other players have only because his kicker was better than theirs. It would be like having a sick ass lawyer work an entire case and then letting an office intern deliver closing statements. **** that shit, man.



If we get rid of kickers and special teams then that gets rid of alot of other hopeful players that want to become a starter one day. Just like David Bruton or Terrell Davis, both made their marks playing special teams in the NFL. It just gives guys a shot at making it.

So do you want to see field goals, the kickoff or punts eliminated all together? Or just tweaked somehow. I know kickoffs are the most dangerous play but it's also the most exciting, for me at least.

#lacesout

King87
03-22-2016, 08:31 PM
If we get rid of kickers and special teams then that gets rid of alot of other hopeful players that want to become a starter one day. Just like David Bruton or Terrell Davis, both made their marks playing special teams in the NFL. It just gives guys a shot at making it.

So do you want to see field goals, the kickoff or punts eliminated all together? Or just tweaked somehow. I know kickoffs are the most dangerous play but it's also the most exciting, for me at least.

#lacesout

If those guys wanted to be starters they should have been better in a more obvious and direct measure. I hate underdog stories in regards to sports.



Field Goals have to stay. The kickoff can go. Punts have to say.

DenBronx
03-22-2016, 08:35 PM
If we get rid of kickers and special teams then that gets rid of alot of other hopeful players that want to become a starter one day. Just like David Bruton or Terrell Davis, both made their marks playing special teams in the NFL. It just gives guys a shot at making it.

So do you want to see field goals, the kickoff or punts eliminated all together? Or just tweaked somehow. I know kickoffs are the most dangerous play but it's also the most exciting, for me at least.

#lacesout

I hate underdog stories in regards to sports.




Your heart is black. Lol

BroncoWave
03-22-2016, 08:36 PM
It's up there pretty far but need help getting it back out.

I think slim is your guy for that. He is an expert on butt stuff.

King87
03-22-2016, 08:40 PM
Your heart is black. Lol


The teams that I root for that are successful are Kentucky basketball, the Boston Celtics, and the Chicago Blackhawks. My entire family when to UK, it's a tradition. I became a Boston fan when Pitino went there to coach from UK, and I started enjoying hockey and I live in Illinois, ergo a 'Hawks fan.

Yet my underdog Reds and Bengals consistently let me down.

DenBronx
03-22-2016, 08:53 PM
Your heart is black. Lol


The teams that I root for that are successful are Kentucky basketball, the Boston Celtics, and the Chicago Blackhawks. My entire family when to UK, it's a tradition. I became a Boston fan when Pitino went there to coach from UK, and I started enjoying hockey and I live in Illinois, ergo a 'Hawks fan.

Yet my underdog Reds and Bengals consistently let me down.


Since we're on the topic of underdogs, how do you like AJ McCarron? He seemed pretty solid with the exception of the botched snap vs Denver.

King87
03-22-2016, 08:55 PM
Since we're on the topic of underdogs, how do you like AJ McCarron? He seemed pretty solid with the exception of the botched snap vs Denver.

He will be a serviceable backup but might have potential to do a little bit more; if he comes into his own as a starter he could be a very fine game manager with a bit of playmaking potential.

Slick
03-22-2016, 08:58 PM
If they're that worried about player safety they may as well get rid of offensive and defensive lines too. Those are the guys who take a real beating.

BroncoWave
03-22-2016, 09:03 PM
If they're that worried about player safety they may as well get rid of offensive and defensive lines too. Those are the guys who take a real beating.

I'm sorry, but this is a huge hot take argument. You can take away elements of special teams that don't really fundamentally change the game. Yeah taking away kickoffs would change the game a little, but it would still be 98% the same. Taking away the lines is something that would fundamentally change the game. Obviously you can never make the game 100% safe, but if you can only change 2% of the game yet greatly improve the safety of it, then that's an easy decision.

Dapper Dan
03-22-2016, 10:09 PM
The teams that I root for that are successful are Kentucky basketball, the Boston Celtics, and the Chicago Blackhawks. My entire family when to UK, it's a tradition. I became a Boston fan when Pitino went there to coach from UK, and I started enjoying hockey and I live in Illinois, ergo a 'Hawks fan.

Yet my underdog Reds and Bengals consistently let me down.

Too bad you didn't follow Pitino to Louisville too

weazel
03-22-2016, 10:17 PM
they should replace the football with a beach ball, that thing is pointy!

King87
03-22-2016, 10:20 PM
Too bad you didn't follow Pitino to Louisville too

We don't betray UK.

Ravage!!!
03-23-2016, 09:33 AM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/ct-touchbacks-rule-change-proposal-20160321-story.html


There has been more buzz about the NFL competition committee's recommendation to make two unsportsmanlike-conduct penalties by the same player in the same game an automatic ejection, but the reality is that situation is rarely going to arise.

However, the committee's proposal to move touchbacks to the 25-yard line from the 20 will have a far greater impact on the game if the rule change is passed when it's voted on Wednesday morning at the NFL's annual meetings...

Ravage!!!
03-23-2016, 09:34 AM
Crap..forgot to fininsh the title. "NFL Competition Committee moves touchbacks to 25".

TXBRONC
03-23-2016, 09:41 AM
Moving a touchback up to the 25 hard line seems like a fair thing to do.

VonDoom
03-23-2016, 09:46 AM
I stand corrected. They passed it today for a one year trial - touchbacks to the 25 yard line

Ravage!!!
03-23-2016, 10:00 AM
I think we'll see more "mortar" kicks (just like the article suggested)..and the "Big Leg on Kickoff" guy will no longer be needed. Although height does take leg strength.

I just hate that the NFL is trying to hard to remove the Kick-off return from the game. Moving the kicking team alllll the way to the 35, and now giving more benefits for not returning at all. The Kick off return, at the right time of the game, can be one of the most exciting plays in football.

Ravage!!!
03-23-2016, 10:01 AM
Moving a touchback up to the 25 hard line seems like a fair thing to do.

I think it sucks,personally.

BroncoJoe
03-23-2016, 10:21 AM
I stand corrected. They passed it today for a one year trial - touchbacks to the 25 yard line

Curious - seems to me this rule will potentially have the kicking team tell the kicker to kick it right at the goal line to force a return.

BroncoJoe
03-23-2016, 10:24 AM
I think we'll see more "mortar" kicks (just like the article suggested)..and the "Big Leg on Kickoff" guy will no longer be needed. Although height does take leg strength.

I just hate that the NFL is trying to hard to remove the Kick-off return from the game. Moving the kicking team alllll the way to the 35, and now giving more benefits for not returning at all. The Kick off return, at the right time of the game, can be one of the most exciting plays in football.

I posted that thought in another thread before seeing this article. Seems to me like the kicking team will be encouraged to avoid touchbacks and kick the ball at the goal line.

The Glue Factory
03-23-2016, 10:34 AM
I think we'll see more "mortar" kicks (just like the article suggested)..and the "Big Leg on Kickoff" guy will no longer be needed. Although height does take leg strength.

I just hate that the NFL is trying to hard to remove the Kick-off return from the game. Moving the kicking team alllll the way to the 35, and now giving more benefits for not returning at all. The Kick off return, at the right time of the game, can be one of the most exciting plays in football.

They might as well just place the ball at the 25 and eschew the formality of the KO all together. Most likely that is the next step in removing the "most dangerous" play from the game.

Ravage!!!
03-23-2016, 11:02 AM
They might as well just place the ball at the 25 and eschew the formality of the KO all together. Most likely that is the next step in removing the "most dangerous" play from the game.

Goodell proposed that idea, but it got a ton of flack from the public. So instead of taking that route, they are trying to encourage no returns. First, moving the kicking team all the way up to the 35 so that more balls go into the endzone. That worked. A TON fewer kick-off returns. Now, they are encouraging it even more, but giving an incentive NOT to run out of the endzone at all.

I think the next step will be to move the kicking team up to the 50 yrd line. Then, if your kicker can put it through the uprights, it goes to the 20...if not, the 25.

If they remove the KO return, it won't be long before they remove the punt return. Just punt the ball, and wherever the ball lands (or is caught), is where the ball remains. No run backs. Lets just take the kicking game out completely.

VonDoom
03-23-2016, 11:08 AM
I don't like it, and I don't think it's going to accomplish what they claim it will, which is player safety:

Michael Tanier ‏@MikeTanier 1h1 hour ago New Jersey, USA

New touchback rule, meet Law of Unintended Consequences. Law of Unintended Consequences, new touchback rule.

Michael Tanier ‏@MikeTanier 1h1 hour ago New Jersey, USA

Kickoffs will now be high hangtime lofts to near the goal line. Returns will increase. Coverage will be closer.

The Glue Factory
03-23-2016, 11:17 AM
Goodell proposed that idea, but it got a ton of flack from the public. So instead of taking that route, they are trying to encourage no returns. First, moving the kicking team all the way up to the 35 so that more balls go into the endzone. That worked. A TON fewer kick-off returns. Now, they are encouraging it even more, but giving an incentive NOT to run out of the endzone at all.

I think the next step will be to move the kicking team up to the 50 yrd line. Then, if your kicker can put it through the uprights, it goes to the 20...if not, the 25.

If they remove the KO return, it won't be long before they remove the punt return. Just punt the ball, and wherever the ball lands (or is caught), is where the ball remains. No run backs. Lets just take the kicking game out completely.

Exactly where I was headed with my comment. I think there might be an unintended consequence if the league implements the 25 yd line for touchbacks. As noted by others, the kicking team may squib kick to the goal line banking on the coverage team tackling the returner short of the 25 yd line. I don't like this rule as it also makes the game harder on the defense by giving the offense 5 yards as a freebie on the touchback.

NightTrainLayne
03-23-2016, 11:25 AM
Curious - seems to me this rule will potentially have the kicking team tell the kicker to kick it right at the goal line to force a return.

Exactly.

Seattle actually already does this. They trust their coverage team, and try to drop the kick inside the 5/just out of the endzone to create a return, and they trust their coverage to stop their opponent from getting back out to the 20. This will only increase the odds of more teams doing likewise.

No doubt, a kick deep into the endzone will be more likely to be downed, but now you will no longer see so many kicks out of the back of the endzone, or deep into it.

The goofballs have incentivized shorter kicks more than they have decentivized returns.

weazel
03-23-2016, 11:26 AM
Sorry but I think kick and punt returns are exciting.

NightTrainLayne
03-23-2016, 11:28 AM
I posted this in the other thread:


Exactly.

Seattle actually already does this. They trust their coverage team, and try to drop the kick inside the 5/just out of the endzone to create a return, and they trust their coverage to stop their opponent from getting back out to the 20. This will only increase the odds of more teams doing likewise.

No doubt, a kick deep into the endzone will be more likely to be downed, but now you will no longer see so many kicks out of the back of the endzone, or deep into it.

The goofballs have incentivized shorter kicks more than they have decentivized returns.

Ravage!!!
03-23-2016, 11:29 AM
Sorry but I think kick and punt returns are exciting.

I do too. They can be THE most exciting plays in the game. Just look at the Super Bowl....our punt return was HUGE and exciting! Take that stuff away, and it's just chippign away..piece by piece... of the game that we've come to love. The small things matter. The kickign game matters.

NightTrainLayne
03-23-2016, 11:30 AM
crap..forgot to fininsh the title. "nfl competition committee moves touchbacks to 25".

fify. ;)

NightTrainLayne
03-23-2016, 11:33 AM
FTR, I agree, I enjoy returns. My comment above was just pointing out that the end result will be much different than the intended purpose of the new rule.

Like many, many other regulations. .. . oops, no politics here.

weazel
03-23-2016, 11:34 AM
Exactly.

Seattle actually already does this. They trust their coverage team, and try to drop the kick inside the 5/just out of the endzone to create a return, and they trust their coverage to stop their opponent from getting back out to the 20. This will only increase the odds of more teams doing likewise.

No doubt, a kick deep into the endzone will be more likely to be downed, but now you will no longer see so many kicks out of the back of the endzone, or deep into it.

The goofballs have incentivized shorter kicks more than they have decentivized returns.

How do you know they didn't do this to get more returns? Externally they look good pretending to minimize returns and injuries but internally they know this will create more returns and create more excitement. Do you really think the NFL cares about player injuries? Just look at the pile of used up running backs that were used up and discarded. KC has a revolving door for its RB's... come on in and run 10000 times in 3 years and then kindly **** off.

Northman
03-23-2016, 11:36 AM
While i hated Dante Hall he was an electric returner, so was Deion Sanders and Eric Metcalf. I mean, we lost to the Ravens in the 2012 playoffs but without Trindon's returns we are never in that game. I understand they want player safety but football in general is a dangerous sport and a injury can happen anywhere on the field and not just with kickoff and punt returns. I just hate the watering down of the sport, even moreso that it seems they are only addressing it at the pro level. If you are going to go about making it a safety issue than address it at all levels. Personally, i like it the way it is and was before but maybe thats just me.

Ravage!!!
03-23-2016, 11:40 AM
Sorry but I think kick and punt returns are exciting.

I do too. They can be THE most exciting plays in the game. Just look at the Super Bowl....our punt return was HUGE and exciting! Take that stuff away, and it's just chipping away..piece by piece... of the game that we've come to love. The small things matter. The kicking game matters. This arguement of "it can just go, it doesn't matter"..is BS.

How many years did we absolutely love watching guys like Tomarek Vanoverin KC be a threat to return the KO's everytime he touched it? Brian Mitchell for the Redskins was awesome to watch. How about the fear that Dante Hall brough every time we kicked off against our division rival? Tell the Chicago Bear fans how much the "ko return is boring" after having incredible seasons of watching Devin Hester. Gale Sayers is basically in the HoF because of his addistions to the KO returns.

When your team JUST got up on a team at the end of the game, the anticipation of the KO coverage can be edge sitting...especially if you are kicking off to a guy like Cribbs! What about the onside kick? "we'll just place the ball down gently here, but if you want to onside kick it, we'll put it on a tee??" LAME.

What about the times that teams fool the other team with an unexpected onside kick attempt? The Saints did everything they could toe keep the ball out of Peyton's hands in the Super Bowl by pulling off an onsides kick that wasn't expected. THAT was/is exciting. I don't care if it's rare. The Rarity is what adds to the 'twist' of it being accomplished. Take out the possibilities completely, and you remove all chances of it.

Chip chip chip....and we'll end up with flag-football before too long, and we'll all be fossils saying "remember when football actually was a contact sport?"

NightTrainLayne
03-23-2016, 11:45 AM
How do you know they didn't do this to get more returns? Externally they look good pretending to minimize returns and injuries but internally they know this will create more returns and create more excitement. Do you really think the NFL cares about player injuries? Just look at the pile of used up running backs that were used up and discarded. KC has a revolving door for its RB's... come on in and run 10000 times in 3 years and then kindly **** off.

How do I know it? I guess I don't, but I'm not big on complex conspiracy theories relying on hundreds of actors each with individual motives, many of which are in active competition against each other. ;)

weazel
03-23-2016, 11:45 AM
we should merge the two threads

NightTrainLayne
03-23-2016, 11:46 AM
we should merge the two threads

I think you're right at this point. :salute:

VonDoom
03-23-2016, 12:09 PM
Brandon McManus ‏@thekidmcmanus 56m56 minutes ago

A players board should be represented at these competition committee meetings. Returns will 100% increase not decrease #ExperimentThat

weazel
03-23-2016, 12:15 PM
How do I know it? I guess I don't, but I'm not big on complex conspiracy theories relying on hundreds of actors each with individual motives, many of which are in active competition against each other. ;)

what conspiracy? There is no conspiracy in the NFL saying, "Lets make this rule. It may cause more returns, it may not", even if in the back of their mind they assume it may create more returns. No group of people could get together and make this rule thinking that the number of returns will go down.

Ravage!!!
03-23-2016, 12:47 PM
what conspiracy? There is no conspiracy in the NFL saying, "Lets make this rule. It may cause more returns, it may not", even if in the back of their mind they assume it may create more returns. No group of people could get together and make this rule thinking that the number of returns will go down.

Actually, they can. They have looked at the NCAA since they changed the rule, and feel the same result will happen in the NFL...and it very well could turn out that way since the penalty for kicking out of bounds brings the ball to the 30.

Of course they think the kick returns will go down. Right now, the ball usually goes out the back of the endzone. If the ball is kicked into the front half of the endzone, the returner usually tries a run as the risk vs reward is better for the risk since the average return is still to the 18-19. But now, if the ball just enters into the endzone, than they may simply choose to kneel as it's a 5 yrd gain and to the 25 (instead to the 18, that's a 7 yrd gain).

So they feel that kicks that barely enter into the endzone will NOT be returned because of the gain. So yeah, I think they absolutely got together and felt that the NFL will have roughly the same result as the NCAA is having.

NightTrainLayne
03-23-2016, 12:48 PM
what conspiracy? There is no conspiracy in the NFL saying, "Lets make this rule. It may cause more returns, it may not", even if in the back of their mind they assume it may create more returns. No group of people could get together and make this rule thinking that the number of returns will go down.

But they're not saying, "it may cause more returns, it may not." Instead, they are saying, "we intend for this rule to decrease returns."

Ravage!!!
03-23-2016, 12:50 PM
what conspiracy? There is no conspiracy in the NFL saying, "Lets make this rule. It may cause more returns, it may not", even if in the back of their mind they assume it may create more returns. No group of people could get together and make this rule thinking that the number of returns will go down.

Not to mentioned the prospect of removing the KO return altogether just a year or two ago. It's why they moved the kicking spot to the 35, for more touchbacks and out of the endzone kickoffs. This is just sticking with their plan to remove that from the game.

Ravage!!!
03-23-2016, 12:52 PM
Brandon McManus ‏@thekidmcmanus 56m56 minutes ago

A players board should be represented at these competition committee meetings. Returns will 100% increase not decrease #ExperimentThat

I think we MIGHT see an increase as teams will try the high kicks, but right now, we don't know how successful those attempts will be. There is no truth to the "100% WILL increase" any more than it will 100% decrease the returns.

Right now, teams haven't had a chance to experiment with the high and/or aimed kicks. Right now the NFL is trying to duplicate the NCAA results, but we'll soon see if that's how it works out. I personally would LOVE it if it increases the number or returns, as I'm personally pretty sick and bored of the KO's going out the back of the endzones.

NightTrainLayne
03-23-2016, 12:55 PM
I think we MIGHT see an increase as teams will try the high kicks, but right now, we don't know how successful those attempts will be. There is no truth to the "100% WILL increase" any more than it will 100% decrease the returns.

Right now, teams haven't had a chance to experiment with the high and/or aimed kicks. Right now the NFL is trying to duplicate the NCAA rules, but we'll soon see if that's how it works out. I personally would LOVE it if it increases the number or returns, as I'm personally pretty sick and bored of the KO's going out the back of the endzones.

I would appreciate it if they got rid of at least one of the commercial breaks on either side of kick-offs. It grinds my gears to have 2 minutes of commercials, come back just in time to see the kicker do his thing, 12-15 seconds later the whistle is blown as a player kneels in the end-zone and then 2 more minutes of commercials.

THAT would be a true improvement to the game.

Ravage!!!
03-23-2016, 12:56 PM
I would appreciate it if they got rid of at least one of the commercial breaks on either side of kick-offs. It grinds my gears to have 2 minutes of commercials, come back just in time to see the kicker do his thing, 12-15 seconds later the whistle is blown as a player kneels in the end-zone and then 2 more minutes of commercials.

THAT would be a true improvement to the game.

Bingo!

VonDoom
03-23-2016, 12:58 PM
I would appreciate it if they got rid of at least one of the commercial breaks on either side of kick-offs. It grinds my gears to have 2 minutes of commercials, come back just in time to see the kicker do his thing, 12-15 seconds later the whistle is blown as a player kneels in the end-zone and then 2 more minutes of commercials.

THAT would be a true improvement to the game.

That is by far the worst thing about watching football. So frustrating. That's why I always watch Red Zone unless the Broncos are on.

King87
03-23-2016, 01:02 PM
I don't want special teams limited for player safety. I want them removed because it's shitty football. 'Look guys, here's a bunch of guys who can barely stay in the league'. Look how good they are.

Kickers are pussies. ST's players usually suck at the game. FFS, when a game is heavily altered by special teams, it feels awful. In 2009 Cincinnati beat Pittsburgh in Pitt in a game where the score was like 12-10 or something like that. It was a brutal game. The type of game that makes you want to bathe in the blood of your enemies, burn their territory to the ground, salt the earth. It was glorious. Yet one of the biggest plays in the game was when we had a long return, I don't recall if it was a punt or a kickoff.

It wasn't our best players on that huge play making the difference; just a bunch of backups and the weaker rotational guys. I stand by my intern doing the closing arguments analogy.

BroncoJoe
03-23-2016, 01:11 PM
King/Keeper, I'm confused as to where you stand on the issue. Can you clarify please?

slim
03-23-2016, 01:13 PM
King/Keeper, I'm confused as to where you stand on the issue. Can you clarify please?

I think he is in favor of giving special teams a larger role in the game.

Timmy!
03-23-2016, 01:13 PM
http://i.imgur.com/4nhUs.png

BroncoJoe
03-23-2016, 01:15 PM
I think he is in favor of giving special teams a larger role in the game.

I believe he stated how much he likes kickers and special team players. But, I'm not clear on his opinion. I need more input.

wayninja
03-23-2016, 01:15 PM
So.. shouldn't this be renamed to touchforward then?

slim
03-23-2016, 01:16 PM
I believe he stated how much he likes kickers and special team players. But, I'm not clear on his opinion. I need more input.

It was a bit ambiguous. If he's gonna be an attorney, he is going to need to work on his communication skills.

BroncoJoe
03-23-2016, 01:18 PM
It was a bit ambiguous. If he's gonna be an attorney, he is going to need to work on his communication skills.

Frankly, I'm disappointed in his expression of opinion here. Pretty vague, really.

Bronco4ever
03-23-2016, 01:30 PM
Meh. I don't mind the league trying to reduce the amount of kickoff returns, but IMO the kickoff still needs to be a part of the game. Simply just starting at the 25 at the beginning of the half or after a score seems to just cheapen the game. It'll make it seem more like an scrimmage than an actual game. I like that the ball has to be kicked in order to change possession. Maybe the kickoff has begun to be more like a formality than something entirely necessary to the game, but it's hard to imagine football without it. That's just me though.

weazel
03-23-2016, 01:43 PM
so if I got this straight... keeper wants moar kickoffs and thinks they should replace TD passes with kicks through the uprights. Didn't he also state that every 3rd down should be played by the practice squad and that missed field goals should count for 2 points?

Ravage!!!
03-23-2016, 02:27 PM
I don't want special teams limited for player safety. I want them removed because it's shitty football. 'Look guys, here's a bunch of guys who can barely stay in the league'. Look how good they are.

Kickers are pussies. ST's players usually suck at the game. FFS, when a game is heavily altered by special teams, it feels awful. In 2009 Cincinnati beat Pittsburgh in Pitt in a game where the score was like 12-10 or something like that. It was a brutal game. The type of game that makes you want to bathe in the blood of your enemies, burn their territory to the ground, salt the earth. It was glorious. Yet one of the biggest plays in the game was when we had a long return, I don't recall if it was a punt or a kickoff.

It wasn't our best players on that huge play making the difference; just a bunch of backups and the weaker rotational guys. I stand by my intern doing the closing arguments analogy.

Lame

NightTrainLayne
03-23-2016, 03:05 PM
Keeper, I highly recommend the movie "Gus" (1976) for you. It's hilarious, and right up your alley. You can't beat Don Knotts, Tim Conway, Ed Asner & Dick Butkus!


http://video.disney.com/watch/gus-trailer-4beaf66de039c2b6f1045dfd

spikerman
03-23-2016, 05:15 PM
I just don't see what the big deal is. College has had this rule for a couple of years and the game has been fine.

BroncoWave
03-23-2016, 05:17 PM
I just don't see what the big deal is. College has had this rule for a couple of years and the game has been fine.

Nah dude, moving the touchback up 5 yards is just going to fundamentally change football as we know it! Next thing you know they are gonna get rid of tackling!

Ravage!!!
03-23-2016, 05:33 PM
Nah dude, moving the touchback up 5 yards is just going to fundamentally change football as we know it! Next thing you know they are gonna get rid of tackling!

We all know you are in favor of ANY and EVERY rule that the NFL offers as long as they state the "its for player safety" tagline to it. Your bleeding heart is well documented, just as your willingness to forgo the game.

spikerman
03-23-2016, 05:38 PM
If you still want there to be football in 20 years we all better get on board the "player safety" train.

wayninja
03-23-2016, 05:54 PM
Yes, only then it will be called Rainbow Kitty Happy sport.

slim
03-23-2016, 05:58 PM
If you still want there to be football in 20 years we all better get on board the "player safety" train.

We could all die tomorrow....so **** it!

Ravage!!!
03-23-2016, 06:01 PM
Yes, only then it will be called Rainbow Kitty Happy sport.

It certainly won't be called football without the words "tag, touch, flag or puff" in front of it.

wayninja
03-23-2016, 06:02 PM
It certainly won't be called football without the words "tag, touch, flag or puff" in front of it.

Flag puff has a nice ring to it.

spikerman
03-23-2016, 06:17 PM
Those people who think hitting is being legislated out of the game simply don't understand the rules.

NightTrainLayne
03-23-2016, 07:20 PM
Nah dude, moving the touchback up 5 yards is just going to fundamentally change football as we know it! Next thing you know they are gonna get rid of tackling!

I don't think anyone's said that. .. .

My only argument is that making this change will result in more returns, rather than less, and the stated objective by the NFL is to reduce the number of returns. We will see how it actually plays out.

BroncoWave
03-23-2016, 07:22 PM
I don't think anyone's said that. .. .

My only argument is that making this change will result in more returns, rather than less, and the stated objective by the NFL is to reduce the number of returns. We will see how it actually plays out.

No one has said it in as many words, but the vitriol with which some people react to rule changes like this would lead one to believe that football as we know it is dead and gone forever.

Slick
03-23-2016, 07:56 PM
I'm sorry, but this is a huge hot take argument. You can take away elements of special teams that don't really fundamentally change the game. Yeah taking away kickoffs would change the game a little, but it would still be 98% the same. Taking away the lines is something that would fundamentally change the game. Obviously you can never make the game 100% safe, but if you can only change 2% of the game yet greatly improve the safety of it, then that's an easy decision.

I'm not making a argument.

The guys on the line, or linebackers, running backs and wide receivers for that matter, take way more of a beating than any special teams player. There's really no disputing that.

You are wearing out the phrase "hot take."

BroncoWave
03-23-2016, 08:28 PM
I'm not making a argument.

The guys on the line, or linebackers, running backs and wide receivers for that matter, take way more of a beating than any special teams player. There's really no disputing that.

You are wearing out the phrase "hot take."

But you understand the difference between slightly tweaking the kickoff and getting rid of line play, right? One of those two can make the game safer without fundamentally changing it.

Slick
03-23-2016, 08:30 PM
But you understand the difference between slightly tweaking the kickoff and getting rid of line play, right? One of those two can make the game safer without fundamentally changing it.

No, please break it down for me.

BroncoWave
03-23-2016, 08:32 PM
No, please break it down for me.

If you understand the difference, I guess I'm not really sure why you even brought up the idea of getting rid of line play in the first place...

Slick
03-23-2016, 10:08 PM
If you understand the difference, I guess I'm not really sure why you even brought up the idea of getting rid of line play in the first place...

I'm saying it's a joke. Who suffers more from CTE, Wave?

Dapper Dan
03-23-2016, 10:22 PM
Thanks, Obama.

Valar Morghulis
03-24-2016, 01:49 AM
How will moving the touchback to the 25 possibly make more people return it?

King87
03-24-2016, 02:13 AM
How will moving the touchback to the 25 possibly make more people return it?

Kickers will practice kicking it shorter than the 25 yard line. The fielding team would either let it stay there, which is shorter than the 25 yard TB spot, or 'standard of where you should start your drive' or return it.

Dapper Dan
03-24-2016, 02:17 AM
Kickers will practice kicking it shorter than the 25 yard line. The fielding team would either let it stay there, which is shorter than the 25 yard TB spot, or 'standard of where you should start your drive' or return it.

Has that happened in college?

King87
03-24-2016, 02:18 AM
Has that happened in college?

I don't really watch it until it's bowl time.

Dapper Dan
03-24-2016, 02:51 AM
I don't really watch it until it's bowl time.

So you never get to see your team?

King87
03-24-2016, 03:01 AM
So you never get to see your team?

They make a few bowl games here and there, but your point is well taken.

Dapper Dan
03-24-2016, 03:25 AM
They make a few bowl games here and there, but your point is well taken.

Meh. I still miss Rich Brooks. One of my top five favorite NCAAF coaches ever.

King87
03-24-2016, 03:27 AM
Meh. I still miss Rich Brooks. One of my top five favorite NCAAF coaches ever.

DD, how do you feel about the rule?

Dapper Dan
03-24-2016, 03:47 AM
DD, how do you feel about the rule?

Moving from the 20 to the 25? I don't know. I like how it's the same as NCAA. I hate when their rules differ. It will cause guys to bring the ball out of the end zone less. But as stated, kickers might try to use strategy and land it inside the 5. I think it would be a risk. The kicker just needs to boot it out of the end zone. I think they already moved the kickoff from the 30 to 35 recently. Ideally, I'd rather scrap the whole kickoff thing altogether.

BroncoWave
03-24-2016, 07:02 AM
I'm saying it's a joke. Who suffers more from CTE, Wave?

You really have to look at it from a proportional perspective. Do linemen get more CTE than special teamers? Probably. But they play 40, 50 snaps a game while there are maybe 10-15 kickoff/punt plays in a game? So obviously you will see a greater number of injuries among the guys who play more snaps.

I don't know the actual numbers so this is more hypothetical, but let's just say in your average game you see 2 injuries on kickoffs and 4 injuries on offense/defense plays. Those numbers would seem to show that offense/defense is twice as dangerous as special teams. But those 4 injuries happen over 100 plays or so (between both teams) while the 2 special teams injuries happen in only 15 plays. So while you do see a greater volume of serious injury on offensive/defensive plays, there is a much higher proportional rate of injuries on kickoff/punt returns.

The NFL will never be able to entirely rid the game of risk without fundamentally changing it, so does that mean they should just never try any little thing here and there to help? It's not an all or nothing scenario.

Ravage!!!
03-24-2016, 09:21 AM
Moving from the 20 to the 25? I don't know. I like how it's the same as NCAA. I hate when their rules differ.

I'm just the opposite. I hate it when the NFL moves to an NCAA rule.

Ravage!!!
03-24-2016, 09:23 AM
Has that happened in college?

The kickers in teh NFL are much much better than the one's in college. They aren't just the top 32, as kickers last 15 years in the NFL. So how many different kickers make the starting rotation in the NFL each year? Not many.

Dapper Dan
03-24-2016, 09:25 AM
I'm just the opposite. I hate it when the NFL moves to an NCAA rule.

I don't care who copies who as long as they're the same :lol:

Northman
03-24-2016, 09:41 AM
The NFL will never be able to entirely rid the game of risk without fundamentally changing it, so does that mean they should just never try any little thing here and there to help? It's not an all or nothing scenario.

But shouldnt it be? Not to be an ass but if you want the game safer wouldnt you do EVERYTHING possible to make it that way? I dont know about you but if the NFL doesnt go all in for player safety than they kind of look like greedy hypocrites who are only half assing it when it comes to solving a safety problem. Again, i dont want anything changed because i know its a violent and physical sport but if you are the NFL and going to use the mantra that player safety matters than i find it a bit insulting that they wont do everything possible to make it that way. I think we both know why that is but i just have to laugh at the notion that they can find any middle ground. Its a risky game no matter what position you play so rather than changing the game itself find another avenue to help players who substain injuries during the playing careers and there afterwards.

Ravage!!!
03-24-2016, 09:46 AM
But shouldnt it be? Not to be an ass but if you want the game safer wouldnt you do EVERYTHING possible to make it that way? I dont know about you but if the NFL doesnt go all in for player safety than they kind of look like greedy hypocrites who are only half assing it when it comes to solving a safety problem. Again, i dont want anything changed because i know its a violent and physical sport but if you are the NFL and going to use the mantra that player safety matters than i find it a bit insulting that they wont do everything possible to make it that way. I think we both know why that is but i just have to laugh at the notion that they can find any middle ground. Its a risky game no matter what position you play so rather than changing the game itself find another avenue to help players who substain injuries during the playing careers and there afterwards.

Kinda nailed it.