View Full Version : Broncos Discussing RG3 Per Kubes
Ziggy
03-22-2016, 09:48 AM
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/15040545/robert-griffin-iii-part-conversation-qb-denver-broncos-gary-kubiak-says
Speaking at the NFL owners meetings, Kubiak said the Broncos have evaluated Griffin and that the former Washington Redskins star continues to be part of Denver's conversation for potential replacements to Peyton Manning and Brock Osweiler.
"[Griffin] is one of the free guys out there," Kubiak said. "... He's obviously been part of the conversation. We'll see what happens; he's a talented young man."
Kubiak said he wouldn't discuss whether the Broncos would bring Griffin in for a visit, but emphasized multiple times that Denver would be "patient" in filling out the quarterback depth chart. The New York Jets and Cleveland Browns also have been linked to Griffin this offseason.
I thought this deserved it's own thread. RG3 grew up a Broncos fan and has a high ceiling.
Ravage!!!
03-22-2016, 09:55 AM
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/15040545/robert-griffin-iii-part-conversation-qb-denver-broncos-gary-kubiak-says
I thought this deserved it's own thread. RG3 grew up a Broncos fan and has a high ceiling.
He doesn't have a high ceiling. He was a flash in the pan that doesn't have the pocket presence to make it in the NFL. Doesn't have the intelligence to make a good NFL QB. I absolutely think the 'ceiling' of RG3 has been peaked.
Northman
03-22-2016, 09:55 AM
Lol
NightTerror218
03-22-2016, 10:03 AM
He doesn't have a high ceiling. He was a flash in the pan that doesn't have the pocket presence to make it in the NFL. Doesn't have the intelligence to make a good NFL QB. I absolutely think the 'ceiling' of RG3 has been peaked.
Nah, he has a high ceilings just can't make it due to being made of glass. He lit teams up as a rookie.
Northman
03-22-2016, 10:11 AM
After his rookie season he went 5-15 as a starter with 20 TD's and 18 Int's. Suffice to say the league caught on to him even when he was healthy and he bombed.
I prefer RGIII to Kaepernick by a factor of a million. RGIII is a smart dude and his ceiling is much higher based on IQ alone. He may never live up to his draft and ROY hype again - but I think he could be effective in the right system.
BroncoJoe
03-22-2016, 10:27 AM
I prefer RGIII to Kaepernick by a factor of a million. RGIII is a smart dude and his ceiling is much higher based on IQ alone. He may never live up to his draft and ROY hype again - but I think he could be effective in the right system.
Kaepernick graduated college with a 4.0. For whatever that's worth...
EDIT:
That was High School. Here's what he did at Nevada, and on the Wonderlic:
Drooling over Kaepernick's physical tools somewhat cheapens the product. There's substance beneath the style. Arguably his best attribute is smarts. Watching film this week, the Packers see a 25-year-old progressing through one, two, three reads before making a decision. They see a quarterback who scored a remarkable 37 on his Wonderlic test and earned a 3.5 grade-point average in college at Nevada.
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/kaepernick-a-quick-nfl-study-9989fj7-186119641.html
Ravage!!!
03-22-2016, 10:29 AM
I think Kaep is the better athlete and bigger boned... not to mention a much better runner. Neither QBs are what I would consider to be "smart QBs"... but Iwould much rather have the guy that doesn't get injured every other play. Kaep has gone TO the Super Bowl, so that experience is beneficial for a veteran team that "has been there" as well.
I don't "like" either...but choosing between Kaep and RGIII is an easy choice for me, and thats Kaep. As north pointed out, RG3 looked "good" his rookie season with Shanahan keeping his reads in check (didn't really 'light it up')..... but since that time he's been pretty friggin aweful. Cousins came in with the same team, and they were playoff bound. So the "yeah, but he played in Washington" excuse doesn't really hold much water.
Kaepernick graduated college with a 4.0. For whatever that's worth...
He also wore a Miami Dolphins hat in public while playing for the 49ers and then was defiant about it... He's an aloof loser who doesn't "get it" - and more to the point - he can't throw with any accuracy at all. So unless we plan on running the option, I don't see any value in Kaep.
Ravage!!!
03-22-2016, 10:31 AM
Doesn't.. or didn't? Because I can certainly agree that he "didn't" get it...but I don't know if he still doesn't.
I think Kaep is the better athlete and bigger boned... not to mention a much better runner. Neither QBs are what I would consider to be "smart QBs"... but Iwould much rather have the guy that doesn't get injured every other play. Kaep has gone TO the Super Bowl, so that experience is beneficial for a veteran team that "has been there" as well.
I don't "like" either...but choosing between Kaep and RGIII is an easy choice for me, and thats Kaep. As north pointed out, RG3 looked "good" his rookie season with Shanahan keeping his reads in check (didn't really 'light it up')..... but since that time he's been pretty friggin aweful. Cousins came in with the same team, and they were playoff bound. So the "yeah, but he played in Washington" excuse doesn't really hold much water.
He won Rookie of the Year in Washington! How does that not hold water? He never got his confidence back from his knee injury, then he didn't get along with his last 2 head coaches, let his ego and immaturity get in the way, and things devolved from there. But he still won Rookie of the Year and a Heisman trophy. I think you can reasonably disagree and prefer Kaepernick, but I don't think you can just dismiss his Redskins resume.
TXBRONC
03-22-2016, 10:57 AM
I don't know that RGIII or Kaepernick are long term solutions but I do trust that Elway and Kubiak know what they are doing. If either one of them lands in Denver my hope will be that they will get their career back on the right track.
Ravage!!!
03-22-2016, 11:07 AM
He won Rookie of the Year in Washington! How does that not hold water? He never got his confidence back from his knee injury, then he didn't get along with his last 2 head coaches, let his ego and immaturity get in the way, and things devolved from there. But he still won Rookie of the Year and a Heisman trophy. I think you can reasonably disagree and prefer Kaepernick, but I don't think you can just dismiss his Redskins resume.
Right. YOu want to say that Kaep "doesn't get it"..but then want to simply blow off that fact that the last TWO coaches coudln't get along with him. How is letting his ego and immaturity get in the way "getting it" over Kaep? Seems you are saying one thing about one, and overlooking it on the other.
That being said, I absolutely am NOT dismissing RG3s Redskin resume. In fact, I'm taking his ENTIRE resume into account and not just his rookie season.
TXBRONC
03-22-2016, 11:07 AM
Kaepernick graduated college with a 4.0. For whatever that's worth...
EDIT:
That was High School. Here's what he did at Nevada, and on the Wonderlic:
Wow, Kaepernick's score was exactly the same as Andrew Luck's.
CoachChaz
03-22-2016, 11:08 AM
You can give RGIII the short term "prove it" contract and let him battle with Sanchez while you develop a rookie. Does Kaep come with that convenience? It really all comes down to what kind of deal Elway can work out with him. At the end of the day, I dont think either of the two are the answer at the position for the next 8-10 years...unless they can COMPLETELY buy into the Kubiak/Elway system. If they do that, both have a chance at long term success
Right. YOu want to say that Kaep "doesn't get it"..but then want to simply blow off that fact that the last TWO coaches coudln't get along with him. How is letting his ego and immaturity get in the way "getting it" over Kaep? Seems you are saying one thing about one, and overlooking it on the other.
That being said, I absolutely am NOT dismissing RG3s Redskin resume. In fact, I'm taking his ENTIRE resume into account and not just his rookie season.
They both come with baggage - I guess I just view Kaepernick as a complete moron, whereas I view RGIII as a smart person who made some mistakes. Not sure whether that's fair or not - but that's my perception of the two.
We have 12 foot ceilings.
They both come with baggage - I guess I just view Kaepernick as a complete moron, whereas I view RGIII as a smart person who made some mistakes. Not sure whether that's fair or not - but that's my perception of the two.
This reminds me of the time you tried to tell us that Joe Biden was smarter than Sarah Palin.
This reminds me of the time you tried to tell us that Joe Biden was smarter than Sarah Palin.
Joe Biden's dead son is smarter than Sarah Palin.
Davii
03-22-2016, 01:03 PM
We have 12 foot ceilings.
There's no ceiling at Mile High Slim.
OrangeHoof
03-22-2016, 01:04 PM
I think Obama chose Biden because no patriot would try to assassinate him and leave such a total moron in charge of the country. Trig is smarter than Biden.
tomjonesrocks
03-22-2016, 01:16 PM
I prefer RGIII to Kaepernick by a factor of a million. RGIII is a smart dude and his ceiling is much higher based on IQ alone. He may never live up to his draft and ROY hype again - but I think he could be effective in the right system.
I want to agree and high five because Kap strikes me as a mega-douche that doesn't fit with this organization but RGIII is just so frail. Last we saw him he was quite literally flying off his feet taking a rag doll beating in preseason - unsure he can really stand in and take hits at this point.
Bronco4ever
03-22-2016, 01:16 PM
They both come with baggage - I guess I just view Kaepernick as a complete moron, whereas I view RGIII as a smart person who made some mistakes. Not sure whether that's fair or not - but that's my perception of the two.
Agreed completely. I'm also not a fan of the bicep kissing and having his headphones on every damn place he goes. RGIII seems smarter, less douchey, and we don't have to trade a draft pick for him. (because less douchey is a metric for QB success)
I still prefer RG3 over Kap, but would take either.
I just feel we are getting about the same in either. A running QB with a strong arm, questionable ability to read defenses and accuracy issues and baggage.
One we have to trade for, the other we don't.
CoachChaz
03-22-2016, 02:30 PM
My guess is Elway is just keeping options open. If he can't pull off a trade for Kaepernick...then go to RGIII as a back-up plan.
Dzone
03-22-2016, 02:31 PM
Agreed completely. I'm also not a fan of the bicep kissing and having his headphones on every damn place he goes. RGIII seems smarter, less douchey, and we don't have to trade a draft pick for him. (because less douchey is a metric for QB success)
No kidding.. This is no place for bicep kissing, headphone necklace douchebags like Kaepernick. Plus his throwing has gone down the crapper.
Ziggy
03-22-2016, 02:41 PM
RG3 has the ability to read defenses, and the accuracy that Kap lacks. Kap is at career 59% completions. That's pitiful in today's NFL, and it shows his most glaring weakness. RG has a career 63.9 completion percentage. Not fantastic, but respectable. I actually prefer RG3 over Kap, but I think both could turn their career's around with the right attitude and work ethic in this offensive scheme. Neither would be asked to do much.
Guys, the bicep kissing is pretty tame. I mean every time Von Miller gets a sack he starts thrusting like he's Lamar Odom at a whorehouse. RG3 might be the better overall choice given the context. I think either one would be fine as it'd be a low risk high potential yield sort of thing. Let's be honest, even if Denver gets one of those guys, the search for a new young QB will continue.
Cugel
03-22-2016, 03:30 PM
This reminds me of the time you tried to tell us that Joe Biden was smarter than Sarah Palin.
???? My pet rock is smarter than Sarah Palin.
Cugel
03-22-2016, 03:33 PM
I wouldn't worry too much about RGIII coming here. Reportedly, the Browns have made him their #1 priority. They've actually lost FAs, haven't signed anybody and are worse right now than they were when they finished the season 3-13.
He would immediately be the presumptive Browns starter, whereas here at best he'd be competing for a starting role and probably not winning it. They might just view him as an insurance policy. I don't see him signing with the Broncos.
Cugel
03-22-2016, 03:35 PM
My guess is Elway is just keeping options open. If he can't pull off a trade for Kaepernick...then go to RGIII as a back-up plan.
Probably, but consider that they are probably not going with 4 QBs on the active roster! Sanchez, RGIII, a rookie draft pick (almost certainly they will try and draft some developmental QB) and Trevor Siemian.
There ain't room for more than 3 on the active roster.
Someone would have to go, and it's probably not going to be Sanchez, and it won't be the rookie, and they aren't paying much at all to Siemian and like him as a developmental guy. Add a draft pick and where does RGIII fit in? He'd have to beat out Sanchez to keep his roster spot.
Just doesn't make sense to me - unless they were to release Siemian, which I can't see happening.
Davii
03-22-2016, 03:39 PM
This isn't the politics forum folks, let's keep the discussion related to football please.
TXBRONC
03-22-2016, 04:44 PM
Probably, but consider that they are probably not going with 4 QBs on the active roster! Sanchez, RGIII, a rookie draft pick (almost certainly they will try and draft some developmental QB) and Trevor Siemian.
There ain't room for more than 3 on the active roster.
Someone would have to go, and it's probably not going to be Sanchez, and it won't be the rookie, and they aren't paying much at all to Siemian and like him as a developmental guy. Add a draft pick and where does RGIII fit in? He'd have to beat out Sanchez to keep his roster spot.
Just doesn't make sense to me - unless they were to release Siemian, which I can't see happening.
Cug I'm not sure read that correctly. What Chaz is saying is that if Elway cannot seal the deal for Kaepernick then he could sign RGIII instead. There would only be three quarterbacks on the roster.
ShaneFalco
03-22-2016, 04:48 PM
RG3 is the best option out there. His arm is incredibly strong.
The Glue Factory
03-22-2016, 05:47 PM
RG3 is the best option out there. His arm is incredibly strong.
And his body incredibly fragile, according to his injury history.
Slick
03-22-2016, 05:50 PM
I think if the Broncos really wanted RG3 they would have signed him by now. I see him as a last resort type of option.
Northman
03-22-2016, 05:55 PM
I think if the Broncos really wanted RG3 they would have signed him by now. I see him as a last resort type of option.
The fact there arent a lot of teams clamoring to sign RGIII or even trade for Kap tells me the rest of the league isnt quite sold on them either. There is some pretty mediocre QB's in the league and yet no one thinks highly enough of these guys to get into a bidding war over them.
BroncoJoe
03-22-2016, 06:20 PM
sanchez!!!
DenBronx
03-22-2016, 06:46 PM
I prefer RGIII to Kaepernick by a factor of a million. RGIII is a smart dude and his ceiling is much higher based on IQ alone. He may never live up to his draft and ROY hype again - but I think he could be effective in the right system.
How do you figure on IQ? Lol. Did he bomb the wonderlic?
Anyhow, I am not the biggest fan of either guy but at least Kap has a bigger arm, more athletic and manages to stay healthy. If those are our only two choices then it's Kap but I don't want either of them.
You can give RGIII the short term "prove it" contract and let him battle with Sanchez while you develop a rookie. Does Kaep come with that convenience? It really all comes down to what kind of deal Elway can work out with him. At the end of the day, I dont think either of the two are the answer at the position for the next 8-10 years...unless they can COMPLETELY buy into the Kubiak/Elway system. If they do that, both have a chance at long term success
As usual, the bottom line's the bottom line. It's hard to definitively argue a guy with just a pair of hit and miss starting seasons has far more upside than a former Rookie of the Year and #2 overall pick: But one would cost us $12M this year alone AND our 2nd round pick; the other's just hoping for a JOB. Each is equally likely to be our next franchise QB, but in this case "equally" means "not very:" Why make a big investment in that when it can be had for much less, with no risk?
Probably, but consider that they are probably not going with 4 QBs on the active roster! Sanchez, RGIII, a rookie draft pick (almost certainly they will try and draft some developmental QB) and Trevor Siemian.
There ain't room for more than 3 on the active roster.
Someone would have to go, and it's probably not going to be Sanchez, and it won't be the rookie, and they aren't paying much at all to Siemian and like him as a developmental guy. Add a draft pick and where does RGIII fit in? He'd have to beat out Sanchez to keep his roster spot.
Just doesn't make sense to me - unless they were to release Siemian, which I can't see happening.
Siemian's only entering his 2nd season and played all of one rookie game (i.e. after Oz got hurt, he came in to kneel the ball for the half @Pitt.) If Elway and/or Kubiak just can't live without last years #250 overall pick, we can PS him again and he should clear waivers.
Simple Jaded
03-22-2016, 11:03 PM
I don't mind either, but RGIII wouldn't cost draft picks.
Sanchez and RGIII with a rookie, I think they can make it work.
Dapper Dan
03-22-2016, 11:20 PM
I don't mind either, but RGIII wouldn't cost draft picks.
Sanchez and RGIII with a rookie, I think they can make it work.
That would be a colorful group of guys.
MOtorboat
03-23-2016, 02:14 AM
RGIII, mmmhmmm. I can get on that train.
Ravage!!!
03-23-2016, 09:14 AM
RG3 is the best option out there. His arm is incredibly strong.
Vick's arm is strong too. Want to sign him? Oh wait, I forgot who I was typing to.
CoachChaz
03-23-2016, 09:27 AM
As usual, the bottom line's the bottom line. It's hard to definitively argue a guy with just a pair of hit and miss starting seasons has far more upside than a former Rookie of the Year and #2 overall pick: But one would cost us $12M this year alone AND our 2nd round pick; the other's just hoping for a JOB. Each is equally likely to be our next franchise QB, but in this case "equally" means "not very:" Why make a big investment in that when it can be had for much less, with no risk?
We can throw those numbers out there right now, but at the end of the day, we all know Elway isnt going to give up a 2nd round pick and 12 mil for Kaep. So...we need to toss that idea as an argument against acquiring him. That being said, I still think the best option would be to bring in RGIII on a short "prove it" deal to compete with Sanchez until we can draft a long term solution. The positive being that RGIII can still play and is around for quite awhile...with the worst case scenario being us getting a young guy this year or next to eventually be our QB of the future.
I just wouldn't rest on being able to get that guy this year. It's highly possible that the top 4 QB's are gone by the time we pick at 31.
CoachChaz
03-23-2016, 09:28 AM
Probably, but consider that they are probably not going with 4 QBs on the active roster! Sanchez, RGIII, a rookie draft pick (almost certainly they will try and draft some developmental QB) and Trevor Siemian.
There ain't room for more than 3 on the active roster.
Someone would have to go, and it's probably not going to be Sanchez, and it won't be the rookie, and they aren't paying much at all to Siemian and like him as a developmental guy. Add a draft pick and where does RGIII fit in? He'd have to beat out Sanchez to keep his roster spot.
Just doesn't make sense to me - unless they were to release Siemian, which I can't see happening.
Siemian can easily be released or put on the PS and it wouldnt hurt this team one bit. Anyone banking on him becoming a starter one day is either in shock from our current QB situation or is a family member of his.
Simple Jaded
03-23-2016, 04:42 PM
Vick's arm is strong too. Want to sign him? Oh wait, I forgot who I was typing to.
Ask yourself if the QB in question sucks, if so, The Shane would love to see him land on one of his favorites teams.
We can throw those numbers out there right now, but at the end of the day, we all know Elway isnt going to give up a 2nd round pick and 12 mil for Kaep. So...we need to toss that idea as an argument against acquiring him. That being said, I still think the best option would be to bring in RGIII on a short "prove it" deal to compete with Sanchez until we can draft a long term solution. The positive being that RGIII can still play and is around for quite awhile...with the worst case scenario being us getting a young guy this year or next to eventually be our QB of the future.
Fair enough, but ANY trade for Kaep would necessarily cost us more resources than signing RGIII off the street. Even if the market convinces SF to settle for less than a late 2nd or early 3rd round pick, they're not giving him up for a hearty handshake: They'll want SOME compensation. Since RG III's not under a contract that's not an issue. I also suspect he's hungry enough to sign for much less than the $12M/yr Kaep's likely to retain whether SF trades him or not.
It's a much smaller investment for essentially equal likelihood of being able to salvage either as our franchise QB.
I just wouldn't rest on being able to get that guy this year. It's highly possible that the top 4 QB's are gone by the time we pick at 31.
That's a real possibility, especially if this QB class is as bad as everyone keeps saying. In that event, riding with Sanchez for a year when we're guaranteed a better set of picks unless we win another SB (and, again, if we win back-to-back SBs how much do we NEED a better QB anyway?) wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. It'd certainly beat mortgaging all HOPE of drafting a franchise QB any time soon just to sign a bust who probably won't fill that need either.
Jsteve01
03-24-2016, 08:42 AM
I keep thinking about Plummer's moderate success under Kubes, and that when he was much older and set in his ways. He didn't have the physical attributes of either of these guys but did have a fire in his belly. I like the idea of Kubes choosing to mentor one of these guys. And to be completely honest I'm somewhat intrigued with the idea of seeing what Kubiak can get out of Sanchez given that he gets the philosophies better than either of our qbs did last year.
TXBRONC
03-24-2016, 10:21 AM
I keep thinking about Plummer's moderate success under Kubes, and that when he was much older and set in his ways. He didn't have the physical attributes of either of these guys but did have a fire in his belly. I like the idea of Kubes choosing to mentor one of these guys. And to be completely honest I'm somewhat intrigued with the idea of seeing what Kubiak can get out of Sanchez given that he gets the philosophies better than either of our qbs did last year.
Manning had fire in belly but I don't think Plummer. He took his job serious enough to fulfill what was expected of but he never went beyond not like Manning or Elway. When the RMN was still around had an article by Dave Kreiger (I'm sure I've misspelled his name) and he mentioned Plummer would do what he was obligated to do by contract but he never went beyond that.
Ravage!!!
03-24-2016, 10:33 AM
Manning had fire in belly but I don't think Plummer. He took his job serious enough to fulfill what was expected of but he never went beyond not like Manning or Elway. When the RMN was still around had an article by Dave Kreiger (I'm sure I've misspelled his name) and he mentioned Plummer would do what he was obligated to do by contract but he never went beyond that.
Exactly. Plummer didn't like the film room.
Northman
03-24-2016, 10:34 AM
Manning had fire in belly but I don't think Plummer. He took his job serious enough to fulfill what was expected of but he never went beyond not like Manning or Elway. When the RMN was still around had an article by Dave Kreiger (I'm sure I've misspelled his name) and he mentioned Plummer would do what he was obligated to do by contract but he never went beyond that.
Well, Jake did have fire and i think what JSteve is getting at is Plummer was a competitor but where Jake fell short in was preparation. He did the bare minimum when it came to preparing for opponents but when he took the field he played his ass off even if he didnt have a good day. While Plummer was no Manning i wont sell the guy short on his competitive fire. Jake loved playing football he just didnt like some of the extra work that came with it and would rather just show up and play and not much more.
Ravage!!!
03-24-2016, 10:37 AM
Well, Jake did have fire and i think what JSteve is getting at is Plummer was a competitor but where Jake fell short in was preparation. He did the bare minimum when it came to preparing for opponents but when he took the field he played his ass off even if he didnt have a good day. While Plummer was no Manning i wont sell the guy short on his competitive fire. Jake loved playing football he just didnt like some of the extra work that came with it and would rather just show up and play and not much more.
Yeah.. I agree here. I wasn't a Plummer fan, but I will give him credit for playing hard on the field. He absolutely did.
Plummer viewed it as a job. His only motivation was going to battle with his teammates on Sundays, and in the end that wasn't enough. He quit when the going got tough.
BroncoJoe
03-24-2016, 10:49 AM
plummer viewed it as a job. His only motivation was going to battle with his teammates on sundays, and in the end that wasn't enough. He quit when the going got tough.
you take that back!!!!!
you take that back!!!!!
He is a quitter and yet people like Vic Lombardi revere him as if he's some admirable figure in Broncos history. I've long held that I'd rather listen to an interview with Bubby Brister than Jake friggin Plummer.
Ravage!!!
03-24-2016, 11:02 AM
He is a quitter and yet people like Vic Lombardi revere him as if he's some admirable figure in Broncos history. I've long held that I'd rather listen to an interview with Bubby Brister than Jake friggin Plummer.
He did. We drafted a QB, and instead of fighting for his job, he laid down. Then quit before even trying to compete with the Bucs. Football just wasn't important enough to him...which is fine.... if you aren't the QB for my team.
MOtorboat
03-24-2016, 11:06 AM
Plummer viewed it as a job. His only motivation was going to battle with his teammates on Sundays, and in the end that wasn't enough. He quit when the going got tough.
Made playoffs three years in a row; missed playoffs three years in a row...
Made playoffs three years in a row; missed playoffs three years in a row...
There isn't a QB in the world who could have won with Bob Slowick's defenses.
MOtorboat
03-24-2016, 11:14 AM
There isn't a QB in the world who could have won with Bob Slowick's defenses.
7-2 when Shanahan quit on Plummer. Headed back to the playoffs for a fourth straight year and all of a sudden he decided Denver needed a straight drop-back offense.
Of course, if Shanahan doesn't quit on Plummer and draft Cutler, Cutler doesn't get Shanahan fired and McDaniels hired and McDaniels fired and Elway hired and Miller drafted and Manning signed. So, I guess, in a way, Shanahan won Denver a third Super Bowl.
Denver Native (Carol)
03-24-2016, 12:08 PM
Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter 19m
And now the Browns say they have signed QB Robert Griffin III. It's going to be a 2-year deal
Northman
03-24-2016, 12:15 PM
7-2 when Shanahan quit on Plummer. Headed back to the playoffs for a fourth straight year and all of a sudden he decided Denver needed a straight drop-back offense.
Of course, if Shanahan doesn't quit on Plummer and draft Cutler, Cutler doesn't get Shanahan fired and McDaniels hired and McDaniels fired and Elway hired and Miller drafted and Manning signed. So, I guess, in a way, Shanahan won Denver a third Super Bowl.
Actually, Denver was 7-4 when Plummer was benched and on their way to missing the playoffs with 2 straight losses.
MOtorboat
03-24-2016, 12:25 PM
Actually, Denver was 7-4 when Plummer was benched and on their way to missing the playoffs with 2 straight losses.
Fair enough. 7-4 still should have made the playoffs.
Northman
03-24-2016, 12:28 PM
Fair enough. 7-4 still should have made the playoffs.
Yes, but it was never guaranteed and like i said we were coming off 2 straight losses so its not totally shocking that Shanahan was looking for a spark of any kind.
The Glue Factory
03-24-2016, 12:40 PM
7-2 when Shanahan quit on Plummer. Headed back to the playoffs for a fourth straight year and all of a sudden he decided Denver needed a straight drop-back offense.
Of course, if Shanahan doesn't quit on Plummer and draft Cutler, Cutler doesn't get Shanahan fired and McDaniels hired and McDaniels fired and Elway hired and Miller drafted and Manning signed. So, I guess, in a way, Shanahan won Denver a third Super Bowl.
I believe Shanahan's departure was more a result of retaining a horrid DC in Slowik than what happened with the QBs. Additionally, Ray Rhodes was just another DC in the revolving door at that position. Rumors were that Shanahan was not allowing Rhodes much liberty in running the defense and Rhodes departure did nothing to dispel those rumors.
Denver Native (Carol)
03-24-2016, 12:42 PM
Adam Schefter Retweeted
Tom Pelissero @TomPelissero 7m
Griffin got a $3.5M signing bonus and a $3.25M guaranteed salary in 2016. Can make another $750K in per-game active bonuses.
The Glue Factory
03-24-2016, 12:52 PM
Adam Schefter Retweeted
Tom Pelissero @TomPelissero 7m
Griffin got a $3.5M signing bonus and a $3.25M guaranteed salary in 2016. Can make another $750K in per-game active bonuses.
GEM's genitalia are generally safe from chainsaws now. :D
Yes, but it was never guaranteed and like i said we were coming off 2 straight losses so its not totally shocking that Shanahan was looking for a spark of any kind.
It was how we lost to KC that sealed the deal. I liked Plummer, but the rumors that he may be benched prior to that game just messed him up...and he was already messed up. He was done.
BroncoJoe
03-24-2016, 01:14 PM
Jake sends this message to his nonbelievers.
http://img.bleacherreport.net/img/slides/photos/003/397/565/jake2e_display_image_crop_north.jpg?w=397&h=328&q=75
Northman
03-24-2016, 01:20 PM
http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/775/582/plumwas_original.gif?1363860926
He sent a lot of messages during his time in Denver. lol
#ShadesofOrton
Does this increase the likelihood of a trade for Kaepernick?
NightTerror218
03-24-2016, 01:43 PM
/thread
Does this increase the likelihood of a trade for Kaepernick?
I don't think Denver could fit him under the cap unless he agreed to a backloaded contract. Denver fans better prepare for Sanchez or Siemian.
BroncoJoe
03-24-2016, 02:39 PM
I don't think Denver could fit him under the cap unless he agreed to a backloaded contract. Denver fans better prepare for Sanchez or Siemian.
I'm prepared. Look - it couldn't be any worse than the QB play we had during our WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP run.
Northman
03-24-2016, 02:49 PM
I'm prepared. Look - it couldn't be any worse than the QB play we had during our WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP run.
I dont think so either. Im actually ok with going with Sanchez and drafting a prospect as well as having Simien back there. I actually think the team would be worse with RGIII or Kap. I just dont like them as QB's even though Sanchez is still a question mark.
BroncoJoe
03-24-2016, 02:54 PM
I dont think so either. Im actually ok with going with Sanchez and drafting a prospect as well as having Simien back there. I actually think the team would be worse with RGIII or Kap. I just dont like them as QB's even though Sanchez is still a question mark.
I don't think either RGIII or Kaep are significantly better than Sanchez. Especially at the price they'd have to pay for either one.
I'm prepared. Look - it couldn't be any worse than the QB play we had during our WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP run.
I am not so quick to jump to that conclusion. At least half the problem (if not more) with the offense last year was the line. Maybe Kubiak can work with Sanchez and help him. But he has a turnover problem and isn't accurate. I am only hoping that Siemian steps up...and that is a slight hope. Other than that, we need a heroic effort from the run game this year.
I am not getting my hopes up on the same kind of defensive performance as last year.
BroncoJoe
03-24-2016, 03:02 PM
I am not so quick to jump to that conclusion. At least half the problem (if not more) with the offense last year was the line. Maybe Kubiak can work with Sanchez and help him. But he has a turnover problem and isn't accurate. I am only hoping that Siemian steps up...and that is a slight hope. Other than that, we need a heroic effort from the run game this year.
I am not getting my hopes up on the same kind of defensive performance as last year.
Can't blame the line for our QB leading the NFL in interceptions (actually, I guess he was officially 2nd...), even after missing 7 games.
Can't blame the line for our QB leading the NFL in interceptions (actually, I guess he was officially 2nd...), even after missing 7 games.
Not totally. But it was certainly a contributing factor.
Al Wilson 4 Mayor
03-24-2016, 03:11 PM
Does this increase the likelihood of a trade for Kaepernick?
I think it does.
I don't think Denver could fit him under the cap unless he agreed to a backloaded contract. Denver fans better prepare for Sanchez or Siemian.
Considering what will likely happen with clady and what we got Okung for, it shouldn't be too difficult to fit colin under the cap
BroncoJoe
03-24-2016, 03:26 PM
Not totally. But it was certainly a contributing factor.
Yeah - I just don't buy it. We were ranked 17th in rushing (yards per attempt were ranked 14th). Not great, not terrible. 23 interceptions simply can't be the fault of the OL. That's bad decision making from our QB's.
Simple Jaded
03-24-2016, 03:49 PM
Pathetic OL, new scheme, poorly timed drops and declining skills/really bad decision making were the main cause for the play of Manning last year, imo.
But mostly the pathetically pathetic OL.
Simple Jaded
03-24-2016, 03:56 PM
Plummer was a BAMF.
I don't think either RGIII or Kaep are significantly better than Sanchez. Especially at the price they'd have to pay for either one.
Well, I kept saying RG III's so desperate for a shot now he wouldn't cost much, and believe his 2 year $15M contract from Cleveland reflects that, but it's moot now.
TXBRONC
03-25-2016, 01:22 PM
I don't think Denver could fit him under the cap unless he agreed to a backloaded contract. Denver fans better prepare for Sanchez or Siemian.
It was stated earlier in this thread that the framework for Kaepernick's compensation all worked.
TXBRONC
03-25-2016, 01:28 PM
I am not so quick to jump to that conclusion. At least half the problem (if not more) with the offense last year was the line. Maybe Kubiak can work with Sanchez and help him. But he has a turnover problem and isn't accurate. I am only hoping that Siemian steps up...and that is a slight hope. Other than that, we need a heroic effort from the run game this year.
I am not getting my hopes up on the same kind of defensive performance as last year.
Half the problem maybe but certainly not more than have the problem.
Ravage!!!
03-25-2016, 02:57 PM
I don't think Simian ever sees the field. I think we fans get too excited about the 6th-7th round draft choices, and just how many of t hose make it in the NFL at QB? Simian isn't the answer for this team.
FanInAZ
03-25-2016, 07:30 PM
I don't think Simian ever sees the field. I think we fans get too excited about the 6th-7th round draft choices, and just how many of t hose make it in the NFL at QB? Simian isn't the answer for this team.
I think its far less likely for someone to actually get excited about 6th-7th round picks, then it is for those to assume that anyone drafted after the 4th round is probably going to fail. Yes, I know that Tom Brady was an exception; but so was...
Corey Nelson
Danny Trevathan
Virgil Green
Peyton Hillis
Jeb Putzier
Mike Anderson
Billy Miller
Trey Teague
Nate Wayne
Terrell Davis
Byron Chamberlain
Keith Burns
Tom Nalen
Brian Stablein
Shannon Sharpe
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/den/draft.htm
15 examples of post 5th round picks, over the past 26 Broncos' drafts, have made significant contributions to the Broncos. For the sake of simplicity, I define "significant" as having played at least 64 NFL games (for any NFL team), the equivalent of 4 full seasons. Obviously, Nelson & Trevathan are exceptions. Nelson was drafted just 2 years ago, but has played in all 32 regular season games since. Trevathan has only played in 50 regular season games, but I think his contributions speak for themselves. Although most of them are roll players, 5 (Trevathan, Hillis, Anderson, Davis, Nalen & Sharpe) were starters. Furthermore, Sharpe is a HoFer.
Conclusion: 1 post 5th round pick every 1 to 2 drafts makes significant contributions. Acknowledging this as a basis for giving them the benefit of the doubt doesn't mean I get excited over any of them, but I don't get excited over 1st round picks either because I've seen so many not live up to their hype. So who do I get excited over, players who actually have performed. Therefore, I'm not going to write off a player who has yet to be given the opportunity to perform, especially when he's been sitting behind a HoFer for the entirety of his short career.
wayninja
03-25-2016, 07:56 PM
He won't see the field unless he has decent 3 cone time.
Or Sanchez implodes. Which I give about a 50/50 shot.
NightTerror218
03-25-2016, 11:23 PM
None of that list are QBs. A late round QB is rare to do much. And Romo is only undrafted to become a starter.
None of that list are QBs. A late round QB is rare to do much. And Romo is only undrafted to become a starter.
Many weren't exactly hidden gems in the first place. Putzier? Hillis, Nelson? Burns? I always liked Keith Burns, but as a coach and STer, not a starting LB. I sure wouldn't expect him to safe the franchises offense (or defense) any more than Putzier or Hillis did.
As you say though, the demand for QBs is far higher than that for RBs, ILBs and TEs. Far more teams are far more desperate for a QB savior, so the chance of even a long shot franchise QB lasting till late rounds in nil. People point out the Bradys and Romos precisely because they're exceptions, but the rule is clear.
7DnBrnc53
03-26-2016, 01:51 PM
None of that list are QBs. A late round QB is rare to do much. And Romo is only undrafted to become a starter.
Kurt Warner and Jeff Garcia also went undrafted (in 1994).
FanInAZ
03-27-2016, 12:37 AM
Many weren't exactly hidden gems in the first place. Putzier? Hillis, Nelson? Burns? I always liked Keith Burns, but as a coach and STer, not a starting LB. I sure wouldn't expect him to safe the franchises offense (or defense) any more than Putzier or Hillis did.
As you say though, the demand for QBs is far higher than that for RBs, ILBs and TEs. Far more teams are far more desperate for a QB savior, so the chance of even a long shot franchise QB lasting till late rounds in nil. People point out the Bradys and Romos precisely because they're exceptions, but the rule is clear.
I guess I should take the time to explain why...
For the sake of simplicity, I define "significant" as having played at least 64 NFL games (for any NFL team), the equivalent of 4 full seasons.
My English Teacher during my Junior year of high school, '86-'87 school year, was one of the assistant coaches for our football team. He once told us that the average length of a NFL player's career was 3 years, a statement that I'm not going to expend the time & energy to verify. If anyone would like to try, the following link should give you the ability to do so :D: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/
So I defined, in this context only, "significant" as having played 4 or more years because doing so means that the player had a better than average career in terms of career length. You do that by doing things that convinces the coaches that you’re better option then the new guys coming out of college. For many of the players that I previously listed, they did things that most fans don't notice because they're so focused on the guy with the ball, especially if they're crossing the goal line with it.
To make my point, watch the following video of the infamous '09 Brandon Marshall 51 yard pass, for the game winning TD against the Cowboys, from Kyle Orton. Of course Marshall was showered with the praise he deserved for the great effort & athleticism that he showed on that play. However, there was an unsung hero on that play that even the game announcers overlooked. Because of the high football IQ, hustle & disciple he showed on that play; he not only avoided making 2 penalties that would’ve gotten the play called back; but he instead made the 2 perfect plays that he need to make in order to get Marshall into the end zone.
Can you name that player, as well as tell me what he did & didn’t do to get Marshall in the end zone? I’ll wait at least 24 hours to see if anyone else can see what I saw.
http://www.denverbroncos.com/multimedia/videos/NFL-Network-Marshall-Touchdown/c40e5b5b-72c0-11df-a3b6-528cc843f916
FanInAZ
03-27-2016, 02:48 AM
Keeper already has the right answer.
TXBRONC
03-27-2016, 03:03 AM
Keeper already has the right answer.
That there is a higher likelihood of Denver trading for Kaepernick?
I guess I should take the time to explain why...
My English Teacher during my Junior year of high school, '86-'87 school year, was one of the assistant coaches for our football team. He once told us that the average length of a NFL player's career was 3 years, a statement that I'm not going to expend the time & energy to verify. If anyone would like to try, the following link should give you the ability to do so :D: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/
The number many reputable sources have tossed around in recent years is 5 seasons, but the average player is not a "significant contributor." The AVERAGE player needs a season or two just to earn a decent amount of playing time; many spend that long on the PRACTICE squad just trying to reach the 53 and the gameday 48. Then they're literally likely as not gone in 2-3 more years: How significantly CAN they contribute in that time?
Not that it doesn't happen; Jim Brown, Terrell Davis and Gale Sayers (in that order) had HoF careers as amazing for their contributions as their brevity. But even finding a late round ROLEPLAYER is the exception to the rule in the final rounds. Each NFL franchise has a TEAM of professional scouts who do nothing but chase and evaluate talent all over the country all year long: It's very hard for all 32 of them to overlook a good player once, much less 4+ times.
So I defined, in this context only, "significant" as having played 4 or more years because doing so means that the player had a better than average career in terms of career length. You do that by doing things that convinces the coaches that you’re better option then the new guys coming out of college. For many of the players that I previously listed, they did things that most fans don't notice because they're so focused on the guy with the ball, especially if they're crossing the goal line with it.
That's the thing: Better than average DURATION=/=better than average CONTRIBUTION. Every draft always has a few final round guys who provide the latter, and Elway and our scouts have done a great job finding (i.e. stealing) them in recent years. So good I wish we'd extended far more while they were just hungry for a long term roster spot, before they'd proven themselves good enough to command good money. Many could've been locked into long term deals cheaply based on a few flashes and been worth it as "merely" a dozen or so roleplayers. Guys like Trevathan or Marshall might've held out, but we wouldn't have lost half a dozen late round gambles who turned out to be worth $10M/yr that we simply can't pay ALL of them. Yet they're still the exception, however good we've been at finding them.
To make my point, watch the following video of the infamous '09 Brandon Marshall 51 yard pass, for the game winning TD against the Cowboys, from Kyle Orton. Of course Marshall was showered with the praise he deserved for the great effort & athleticism that he showed on that play. However, there was an unsung hero on that play that even the game announcers overlooked. Because of the high football IQ, hustle & disciple he showed on that play; he not only avoided making 2 penalties that would’ve gotten the play called back; but he instead made the 2 perfect plays that he need to make in order to get Marshall into the end zone.
Can you name that player, as well as tell me what he did & didn’t do to get Marshall in the end zone? I’ll wait at least 24 hours to see if anyone else can see what I saw.
http://www.denverbroncos.com/multimedia/videos/NFL-Network-Marshall-Touchdown/c40e5b5b-72c0-11df-a3b6-528cc843f916
Honestly, except for the initial blocking at the line the only thing I see on camera in any shots of that play is Marshalls catch and run and Daniel Graham refraining from an illegal block in the back during the catch, then throwing a nice block right after it and hustling downfield to fence Marshall off the last Dallas defenders. The only thing I can see that would've been flagged is the first block he started to make but then pulled up on when he realized the guy wasn't facing him.
If that's whom you mean, he's a bad example: Not only was Daniel Graham the #21 overall pick of the 2002 draft (VERY high for a TE, especially back then; only Shockey went higher that year,) but he had an NFL pedigree as the son of Tom Graham, who played LB for 7 seasons, the first 2½ for the Broncos who drafted him in the 4th round (back when the draft had SEVENTEEN rounds.)
Other than that, I can't "see" how it's even POSSIBLE to see another player make 2 plays AND 2 non-plays in that clip, even with the replays. The line did a good job with the overload blitz (though one of them would've been flagged for hands to the face now) and Knowshon made an OK cut block on the other side, but there's not enough there to see any of them do FOUR different things.
*shrugs* That's all I got; if someone else did all those things and I still didn't see them, I didn't see them. But a 1st rounder whose father was 4th rounder and played 7 years is no reason to expect the same contributions of a 5th, 6th or 7th rounder.
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