How many tackles did Ronnie Hillman break last year

[dogfish]

just saw a member comment that hillman broke "just as many tackles as CJ anderson" last year, and i wanna see if anyone else is remembering it that way. . . okay, go!

[Timmy!]

I didn't see an option with a negative number.

[underrated29]

Not even close. Hillman sucks. That said he did break a few here and there, mostly when he used his spin move or was hit on the side.


If Hillman and CJ were posters and tackle breaking was length of posts, CJ would be Joel and Hillman would be yardog

[Northman]

A few here and there but nothing to write home about. Hillman is a decent fill in player but CJ is far superior when healthy.

[broncofaninfla]

Breaking tackles isn't Hillmans strength, hitting the hole quick is.

[Valar Morghulis]

Breaking tackles isn't Hillmans strength, hitting the hole quick is.

I don't even agree with that. I think he is very indecisive

[BroncoWave]

just saw a member comment that hillman broke "just as many tackles as CJ anderson" last year, and i wanna see if anyone else is remembering it that way. . . okay, go!

LOL never said he breaks "just as many tackles as CJ". I simply said he breaks more than he gets credit for. I realize you have some creepy obsession with trolling every post I make, but at least be accurate about it if you're going to do so.

[Ravage!!!]

I don't even agree with that. I think he is very indecisive

I don't see that at all. He's much quicker than CJ, and as someone pointed out.... "breaking tackles" isn't what Hillman was drafted to be. He wasn't drafted as a work horse, and he was never meant to be the the workhorse...yet it seems that when he had to step up and do what he could (because CJ was hurt, AGAIN)....they want to put him down because he doesn't "Break tackles."

It's pretty ridiculous. It's like blaming a offensive guard when he's not able to play left tackle. I mean, they are both on the OL, right? Why can't he do both?

[NightTerror218]

I don't even agree with that. I think he is very indecisive

You know he was our leading rusher with over 800 yards

[chazoe60]

Hillman is not good, I'm glad he probably won't be back. The last straw for me was the AFCCG watching a guy pick up a fumble while he does nothing because he doesn't have the football sense to realize it could possibly be a fumble. He's a wasted roster spot. Two dozen other guys can do what he does and they can do it better.

[thunndarr]

I don't even care. When he didn't hop on that lateral vs. NE, he was dead to me.

[GEM]

LOL never said he breaks "just as many tackles as CJ". I simply said he breaks more than he gets credit for. I realize you have some creepy obsession with trolling every post I make, but at least be accurate about it if you're going to do so.

Dogfish trolling every post you make? Bahahahah!! This is dogfish we're talking about, right? :laugh:

[chazoe60]

Don't make me bitch slap you wave. Get your shit together.

[slim]

If it weren't for the numbers on their jerseys I couldn't tell them apart.

#omg

[chazoe60]

If it weren't for the numbers on their jerseys I couldn't tell them apart.

#omg

They do all look the same.

[slim]

They do all look the same.
From the waist down

#btbhasapinksock

[BroncoWave]

Yeah, this guy just sucks at breaking tackles, especially if he has to run up the middle.

uvCnihoDxmM

[slim]

Lol

[chazoe60]

Yeah, this guy just sucks at breaking tackles, especially if he has to run up the middle.

uvCnihoDxmM

Holy crap give him the Heisman.

[slim]

I hope Denver brings him back as a FB and to handle short yardage

[BroncoWave]

No power up the middle at all...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOQsZX6yA_c

[slim]

Power

Lol

[BroncoWave]

He definitely didn't break any tackles here...

06_5EBHzIeo

[BroncoWave]

Well a Vikings player sure attempted an arm tackle on this run, which I have been told brings Hillman down every time...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MspNtelRkA

[dogfish]

LOL never said he breaks "just as many tackles as CJ". I simply said he breaks more than he gets credit for. I realize you have some creepy obsession with trolling every post I make, but at least be accurate about it if you're going to do so.

like i'm gonna spend the time to dig up your quotes! :lol:

i will leave you this (https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/07/10/running-back-breakdown-yards-after-contact/), though. . .

CJ was in the top ten last year for percentage of runs with 10+ yards after contact. . . your boy was in the BOTTOM ten for both lowest percentage of runs with 3+ yards after contact, and highest percentage of runs with no yards after contact. . . of the measured backs, only three other guys had more runs with no yards after contact. . . hillman has zero power or toughness, and everyone can see that except you. . .

[BroncoWave]

like i'm gonna spend the time to dig up your quotes! :lol:

You'd be wasting your time because I never said it.

[Hawgdriver]

Sometimes I mistake Hillman for Gravedigger tearing out oak stumps from reinforced concrete. Pure torque, that boy.

[underrated29]

No power up the middle at all...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOQsZX6yA_c




ummmm. He wasnt even touched on that play until he was in the endzone

[Hawgdriver]

I heard Dodge is changing their ad campaign to "That thing got a Hillman?"

[TXBRONC]

LOL never said he breaks "just as many tackles as CJ". I simply said he breaks more than he gets credit for. I realize you have some creepy obsession with trolling every post I make, but at least be accurate about it if you're going to do so.

No, Dogfish doesn't troll every post you make.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Orlando Franklin pushes him into the end zone and you call that breaking tackles? Then you show another video where he gets brought down by the first Pitt player to get a hand on him. :laugh:

Come on man!

[BroncoWave]

Orlando Franklin pushes him into the end zone and you call that breaking tackles? Then you show another video where he gets brought down by the first Pitt player to get a hand on him. :laugh:

Come on man!

Hillman plowed through that SF linebacker. It didn't really look like Franklin gave him that much help. And in the pitt video it shows 3 runs. Watch the second one. First gets hit 4 yards past the LOS and gains 8 or 9 on the play.

Look, I'm not saying the guy breaks tackles on every play or breaks as many as CJ. I know you guys like to exaggerate and put words in my mouth, but I just haven't said anything of the sort.

All I said it that he breaks more tackles than he gets credit for, and doesn't go down with every attempt at an arm tackle as has been said. One thing that can't be debated is that is puts up very similar numbers to CJ. Is CJ better, sure, never said he wasn't. But he's not leaps and bounds better like some try to say.

When CJ can put together a whole season as the starter without limping off the field at least once per game and put up big numbers in the process, I will concede the point that he is some stud worthy of a huge contract that is way better than Hillman.

[BroncoWave]

:lol: Just clicked Dog's link and those are 2014 stats. No shit Hillman was so low. I think he made big strides in 2015 in his ability to break tackles. If someone can find 2015 stats and show that Hillman's yards after contact was just as bad, I'll concede the point.

[The Glue Factory]

All I said it that he breaks more tackles than he gets credit for, and doesn't go down with every attempt at an arm tackle as has been said.

Nor have I said he succumbs to every arm tackle. To provide a less theatrical assessment of Hillman, I would say he is more likely to be arm tackled than the average NFL RB. I believe stats posted have supported this conclusion.

[BroncoWave]

Nor have I said he succumbs to every arm tackle. To provide a less theatrical assessment of Hillman, I would say he is more likely to be arm tackled than the average NFL RB. I believe stats posted have supported this conclusion.

2014 stats. Like I said, I think he improved in this regard in 2015. From what I can find on google, no one has posted 2015 stats for broken tackles or yards after contact. Looks like all the 2014 articles weren't posted until May or later. Might be a little while before we get those stats for this past season.

[shank]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/07/10/running-back-breakdown-yards-after-contact/

See CJ on the "Highest Percentage of Runs with 10+ Yards After Contact" list.

See Ronnie on the "Highest Percentage of Runs with No Yards After Contact" list.

EDIT: Might be from 2014. Posted cause 2015 is in the URL.

[BroncoWave]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/07/10/running-back-breakdown-yards-after-contact/

See CJ on the "Highest Percentage of Runs with 10+ Yards After Contact" list.

See Ronnie on the "Highest Percentage of Runs with No Yards After Contact" list.

That's the exact same article of 2014 stats that dog posted.

[slim]

like i'm gonna spend the time to dig up your quotes! :lol:

i will leave you this (https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/07/10/running-back-breakdown-yards-after-contact/), though. . .

CJ was in the top ten last year for percentage of runs with 10+ yards after contact. . . your boy was in the BOTTOM ten for both lowest percentage of runs with 3+ yards after contact, and highest percentage of runs with no yards after contact. . . of the measured backs, only three other guys had more runs with no yards after contact. . . hillman has zero power or toughness, and everyone can see that except you. . .

I posted this fun fact yesterday. I notice he didn't respond to either of us. I wonder why?

[BroncoWave]

I posted this fun fact yesterday. I notice he didn't respond to either of us. I wonder why?

I've responded to this article twice now. Would you like me to do so again?

[Hawgdriver]

Yeah, this is fun.

[Hawgdriver]

Hillman is surprisingly tough fer a squirt, but dude good luck with your campaign.

[Timmy!]

BTB's inards adorn the halls of this thread. Brutal.

[BroncoWave]

I would be getting skewered if I were using two year old stats to try to prove my point.

[BroncoJoe]

Hillman is the Tebow of RB's.

[chazoe60]

Hillman is the Tebow of RB's.

Without the awesome will to win and overall badassness. Sorry, I'm still a guy who likes Tebow and found his time here to be enjoyable and exciting. I don't want him back though, don't mistake me for one of those folks.

[wayninja]

Hillman has more yards and TD's than the guy who just got the big contract and is totally getting shat upon.

I agree, Tebow of RB's.

I think he ranks somewhere between "a few here and there" and "a good solid number". I chose the latter just because I do feel he played better this year.

He's not an everydown/power runner. I don't expect him to be.

[Dapper Dan]

Enough to get nearly 1000 yards from scrimmage and 7 touchdowns.

[The Glue Factory]

Without the awesome will to win and overall badassness. Sorry, I'm still a guy who likes Tebow and found his time here to be enjoyable and exciting. I don't want him back though, don't mistake me for one of those folks.

He definitely beat the mind-numbing mediocrity that is Orton who mailed it in once the team was down by multiple scores regardless of how much time was left in the game.

[artie_dale]

I was never high on Hillman because he reminded me of a slightly upgraded Tatum Bell. What I couldn't stand about bell is even though he had so-called speed, he would run out of gas after 20-30 yds and get caught. Hillman kind of is the same in that aspect as well as weight and tendency to be arm tackled.

I actually stopped pulling for him when he made his last bone-head play in a game this season. I can live without that kind stupidity.

https://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/peyton-manning-backward-pass-against-new-england.gif?w=1000

[Dapper Dan]

I was never high on Hillman because he reminded me of a slightly upgraded Tatum Bell. What I couldn't stand about bell is even though he had so-called speed, he would run out of gas after 20-30 yds and get caught. Hillman kind of is the same in that aspect as well as weight and tendency to be arm tackled.

I actually stopped pulling for him when he made his last bone-head play in a game this season. I can live without that kind stupidity.

https://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/peyton-manning-backward-pass-against-new-england.gif?w=1000

A guy that has a 79 yard touchdown in a game we only won by 3 points has a tendency to run out of gas after 20-30 yards?

[Simple Jaded]

Here's the thing about Hillman...

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Here's the thing about Hillman...

To be a high level change of pace back one needs to be a good receiver.

[Dapper Dan]

To be a high level change of pace back one needs to be a good receiver.

I hear you're a good receiver.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I hear you're a good receiver.

Of 100 dollar bills.

[Dapper Dan]

Of 100 dollar bills.

Of course. I wouldn't expect you to put out for free.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Of course. I wouldn't expect you to put out for free.

:laugh:

[Joel]

Yeah, this guy just sucks at breaking tackles, especially if he has to run up the middle.

uvCnihoDxmM
Uh huh: Because being PUSHED in by Franklin AND Vasquez is exactly the same as "breaking tackles." Like 100 years ago, when they put huge loops on pants so guys could carry UNCONSCIOUS (or, occasionally, dead) teammates over the goal line, that was "breaking tackles," too, right?

If you're saying Hillman breaks tackles as well as a CORPSE does, I'll stipulate to that. We could sign a corpse for less though. ;)


No power up the middle at all...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOQsZX6yA_c
Power? No one TOUCHED him till he reached the goal line—where he IMMEDIATELY crumpled (I don't think he even got the ball in, but I'll take it.)

If these and a diving one-armed tackle are the best counterevidence, they prove the very argument they're meant to refute.

[Simple Jaded]

Joel, Hillman had Borland bent backwards before Franklin got involved. Not like that's saying much, tho.

[dogfish]

guys, what do you think? does hillman have more or less power than tatum "the bulldozer" bell?

[Joel]

Joel, Hillman had Borland bent backwards before Franklin got involved. Not like that's saying much, tho.
If you say so; it looked like once Borland got his feet set they came to halt until not one but TWO offensive linemen started shoving from behind. If Franklin and Vasquez double teamed ME into a LB they could probably gain a foot, too, but that doesn't make me a starting quality NFL RB.

[TXBRONC]

guys, what do you think? does hillman have more or less power than tatum "the bulldozer" bell?

Definitely less.

[underrated29]

guys, what do you think? does hillman have more or less power than tatum "the bulldozer" bell?

Nope.

I'd take bell, all day every day over Hillman.....and I was never a Tatum bell supporter. Never.


I will say tho, bell impressed the hell out of me when we brought him back from the cell phone kiosk. You ve never seen him ever run that hard. Too bad he didn't get a shot in tc, I actually had hope for him believe it or not.

[wayninja]

http://www.9news.com/sports/nfl/denver-broncos/mike-klis/broncos-express-interest-in-bringing-back-ronnie-hillman/118646731

He's not rich, so clearly he sucks. Despite that, the Broncos may actually bring him back...or another team (gasp!)

[TXBRONC]

http://www.9news.com/sports/nfl/denver-broncos/mike-klis/broncos-express-interest-in-bringing-back-ronnie-hillman/118646731

He's not rich, so clearly he sucks. Despite that, the Broncos may actually bring him back...or another team (gasp!)

I think he's better suited to being the 3rd down back and getting about 10 to 15 carries per game.

[Dreadnought]

guys, what do you think? does hillman have more or less power than tatum "the bulldozer" bell?

Far less. Tatum Bell freakin' buried Ray Lewis on a 3rd a 9 draw play. One of my favorite Bronco plays ever. His performance against the Redskins in '05 cemented my long term loyalty to Tatum. If you remember, that was a game where T. Bell pretty much single handedly beat the Skins on a day when Jake Plummer took (another) of his epic dumps.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/200510090den.htm

He was a good Bronco, but was yet another guy who got cornholed by Josh McDaniels for whatever reason McDaniels decided to give him the business.

I actually kind of like Hillman, but he was nowhere near as dangerous a breakaway back as Tatum Bell was.

[TXBRONC]

Far less. Tatum Bell freakin' buried Ray Lewis on a 3rd a 9 draw play. One of my favorite Bronco plays ever. His performance against the Redskins in '05 cemented my long term loyalty to Tatum. If you remember, that was a game where T. Bell pretty much single handedly beat the Skins on a day when Jake Plummer took (another) of his epic dumps.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/200510090den.htm

He was a good Bronco, but was yet another guy who got cornholed by Josh McDaniels for whatever reason McDaniels decided to give him the business.

I actually kind of like Hillman, but he was nowhere near as dangerous a breakaway back as Tatum Bell was.

Quentin Griffin was better.

Sincerly,

JRWIZ/Lonestar

[Dreadnought]

Quintin Griffin was better.

Sincerly,

JRWIZ/Lonestar


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Northman]

Far less. Tatum Bell freakin' buried Ray Lewis on a 3rd a 9 draw play. One of my favorite Bronco plays ever. His performance against the Redskins in '05 cemented my long term loyalty to Tatum. If you remember, that was a game where T. Bell pretty much single handedly beat the Skins on a day when Jake Plummer took (another) of his epic dumps.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/200510090den.htm

He was a good Bronco, but was yet another guy who got cornholed by Josh McDaniels for whatever reason McDaniels decided to give him the business.

I actually kind of like Hillman, but he was nowhere near as dangerous a breakaway back as Tatum Bell was.

The Lewis play was amazing. Bell was never in the league with a guy like TD or Portis but like you i did like what he did while in Denver.

[BroncoWave]

My only memory left of Quentin Griffin is him fumbling away a game against the jags.

[BroncoWave]

Far less. Tatum Bell freakin' buried Ray Lewis on a 3rd a 9 draw play. One of my favorite Bronco plays ever. His performance against the Redskins in '05 cemented my long term loyalty to Tatum. If you remember, that was a game where T. Bell pretty much single handedly beat the Skins on a day when Jake Plummer took (another) of his epic dumps.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/200510090den.htm

He was a good Bronco, but was yet another guy who got cornholed by Josh McDaniels for whatever reason McDaniels decided to give him the business.

I actually kind of like Hillman, but he was nowhere near as dangerous a breakaway back as Tatum Bell was.

Unless I am remembering incorrectly, Tatum Bell was a free agent when McDaniels was hired.

[Dreadnought]

Unless I am remembering incorrectly, Tatum Bell was a free agent when McDaniels was hired.

Correct, and not invited to camp or offered a contract. McDaniels preferred to use worthless stiffs the likes of Lamont Jordan and Laurence Maroney at RB

[Northman]

Correct, and not invited to camp or offered a contract. McDaniels preferred to use worthless stiffs the likes of Lamont Jordan and Laurence Maroney at RB

Lol, man i had forgotten about that particular travesty at running back. Damn you Dread!

[TXBRONC]

Correct, and not invited to camp or offered a contract. McDaniels preferred to use worthless stiffs the likes of Lamont Jordan and Laurence Maroney at RB

Any cast off by the Pasties automatically was a hot commodity for McDaniels.

[TXBRONC]

Correct, and not invited to camp or offered a contract. McDaniels preferred to use worthless stiffs the likes of Lamont Jordan and Laurence Maroney at RB

They worse than stiffs.

[Dreadnought]

Lol, man i had forgotten about that particular travesty at running back. Damn you Dread!

Never forget what he did to our team, North, and never forgive.

[tomjonesrocks]

My only memory left of Quentin Griffin is him fumbling away a game against the jags.

He had one game where he tore it up and the announcers compared him to Barry Sanders. Feels like it might have been vs the Colts but unsure about that.

[Northman]

I think it happened vs the Chiefs.

[TXBRONC]

I think it happened vs the Chiefs.

No it was the Colts in Indy.

[BroncoWave]

Correct, and not invited to camp or offered a contract. McDaniels preferred to use worthless stiffs the likes of Lamont Jordan and Laurence Maroney at RB

Tatum Bell never played another snap in the NFL after 2008, so I don't really see how you can pin that on McD for him not getting another shot. 31 other teams passed as well.

[Timmy!]

He had one game where he tore it up and the announcers compared him to Barry Sanders. Feels like it might have been vs the Colts but unsure about that.

Indeed, in Indy. Portis missed that game. We played them again in the playoffs, in Indy the next week, with Portis......and Manning proceeded to hand us our asses.

[LTC Pain]

I'd rather not bring back Hillman. Preferring to draft a RB or two and sign a couple of UDFAs.

[dogfish]

Indeed, in Indy. Portis missed that game. We played them again in the playoffs, in Indy the next week, with Portis......and Manning proceeded to hand us our asses.

roc alexander. . . never forget!

[TXBRONC]

roc alexander. . . never forget!

Roc for a lot of good things for this team Dog. No one was as good as Roc at being burnt toast.

[Simple Jaded]

Correct, and not invited to camp or offered a contract. McDaniels preferred to use worthless stiffs the likes of Lamont Jordan and Laurence Maroney at RB

Maroney and Marshawn Lynch were on the trading block at about the same time and iirc they both were trade for similar compensation, Lynch for a 3rd round and some change and Maroney for a 4th and some change.

One of the many laughable personnel moves Doogie made.

[BroncoWave]

What obligation did McD have to invite Bell to camp? He was a free agent and none of the other 31 teams signed him either. I actually really liked Bell and would have liked to see him back, but the market spoke pretty loud and clear on him that year. I know people like to bash any and every roster move McD ever made, but I never thought it would get to the point where he got heat for not signing Tatum Bell. :lol:

[Simple Jaded]

Tatum Bell sucked.

[TXBRONC]

Maroney and Marshawn Lynch were on the trading block at about the same time and iirc they both were trade for similar compensation, Lynch for a 3rd round and some change and Maroney for a 4th and some change.

One of the many laughable personnel moves Doogie made.

Jarvis Greene was another shitastic McDaniels.

[chazoe60]

Tatum Bell sucked.

Tatum Bell was much better than Hillman is IMHO.

[BroncoWave]

Tatum Bell was much better than Hillman is IMHO.

At what? Selling cell phones?

[Simple Jaded]

Tatum Bell was much better than Hillman is IMHO.

Yup, Hillman never trucked Ray Ray.

[Buff]

What obligation did McD have to invite Bell to camp? He was a free agent and none of the other 31 teams signed him either. I actually really liked Bell and would have liked to see him back, but the market spoke pretty loud and clear on him that year. I know people like to bash any and every roster move McD ever made, but I never thought it would get to the point where he got heat for not signing Tatum Bell. :lol:

Yes - he should get shit for trading a 6th rounder for Larry Maroney, when Marshawn Lynch could have been had from Buffalo for a 4th rounder at the same point in time. That feels like a much fairer and more tangible criticism.

[dogfish]

Yes - he should get shit for trading a 6th rounder for Larry Maroney, when Marshawn Lynch could have been had from Buffalo for a 4th rounder at the same point in time. That feels like a much fairer and more tangible criticism.

actually, we gave a 4th for maroney, and got a 6th back. . .


The New England Patriots traded running back Laurence Maroney to the Denver Broncos, the team confirmed Tuesday evening.

New England will receive Denver's fourth-round pick in 2011, team sources told ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter, who reported the trade earlier in the day, while the Broncos will get a 2011 sixth-round pick from the Patriots in addition to Maroney. The Patriots said only that the deal involved undisclosed draft considerations.

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/news/story?id=5572724

lynch was acquired for a 4th, and a conditional 6th. . .


Buffalo will receive a 2011 fourth-round pick and a 2012 conditional pick, a Seahawks team source told ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter. The conditional pick is a sixth-round selection that can become a fifth-rounder based on Lynch's productivity with Seattle.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5651832

[dogfish]

At what? Selling cell phones?

at being fast. . . he was really, really freaking good at being FAST, and being an extremely legitimate and dangerous change of pace back, who was an actual threat to rip off a big run every time he touched the football. . . in other words, he was good at the one thing that hillman is supposed to be good at-- only he's not. . . that's why tater has an impressive career YPC of 4.9, while hillman is all the way down at 4.1. . .


if it makes you feel better, though, i'll admit up front that i think hillman is at least as good as selvin young, and better than ryan torain. . .

[BroncoWave]

at being fast. . . he was really, really freaking good at being FAST, and being an extremely legitimate and dangerous change of pace back, who was an actual threat to rip off a big run every time he touched the football. . . in other words, he was good at the one thing that hillman is supposed to be good at-- only he's not. . . that's why tater has an impressive career YPC of 4.9, while hillman is all the way down at 4.1. . .


if it makes you feel better, though, i'll admit up front that i think hillman is at least as good as selvin young, and better than ryan torain. . .

It doesn't hurt my feelings at all when I get to disagree with someone! ;) :lol:

[dogfish]

okay, fellas. . . now that "the bulldozer II" is back on the market, how long you think it'll be before somebody snatches him up? and who will be the lucky team?

[underrated29]

Patriots.
That way when they call a bubble screen and he b the football we can walk in with the easy score

[dogfish]

Patriots.
That way when they call a bubble screen and he b the football we can walk in with the easy score

yea, good call. . . it's well known how much belly loves guys who don't consistently play hard, and aren't smart enough to understand the rules. . .

[BroncoWave]

Nothing says intelligent football discussion like defining a guy's entire career/work ethic on one play.

[tomjonesrocks]

Honestly think Hillman beat Bibbs out for the job - wonder if whatever got the long snapper cut played a role. Elway has a long memory - front-office screwup a excluded.

[dogfish]

Nothing says intelligent football discussion like defining a guy's entire career/work ethic on one play.

measuring a guy's effort hardly comes from one play-- that was just a great illustration of his lack of football smarts. . .

the fact that he's underachieved his whole career is what defines his lack of consistent effort. . .



oh, you actually thought kapri bibbs is better?

no, you didn't. . . you probably think ronnie's more talented, right? so do the rest of us. . . so tell us why kapri took his job. . . and if you say special teams, you better be ready to tell me why kapri plays them, and ronnie doesn't. . . ;)

[BroncoWave]

measuring a guy's effort hardly comes from one play-- that was just a great illustration of his lack of football smarts. . .

the fact that he's underachieved his whole career is what defines his lack of effort. . .



oh, you actually thought kapri bibbs is better?

no, you didn't. . . you probably think ronnie's more talented, right? so do the rest of us. . . so tell us why kapri took his job. . . and if you say special teams, you better be ready to tell me why kapri plays them, and ronnie doesn't. . . ;)

Name one other play that displayed Ronnie's "lack of football smarts". You like to hang your hat on the one play, but without other examples, it's nothing more than an outlier.

As for Bibbs, wake me when he gets literally one carry in the NFL. Ronnie may have underperformed, but for 4 years he managed to be a part of the running back rotation, and even had a season as our leading rusher. I would heavily bet that Bibbs never leads a team in rushing in his entire career.

[dogfish]

Name one other play that displayed Ronnie's "lack of football smarts". You like to hang your hat on the one play, but without other examples, it's nothing more than an outlier.

sorry, but i don't have time to chart all the times he's missed blocks, or hit the wrong hole. . . i have to work again this month. . .



As for Bibbs, wake me when he gets literally one carry in the NFL. Ronnie may have underperformed, but for 4 years he managed to be a part of the running back rotation, and even had a season as our leading rusher. I would heavily bet that Bibbs never leads a team in rushing in his entire career.

so, i should assume you don't have an answer to the question?

also, good luck finding the part where i said bibbs was or would be anything special. . . it doesn't exactly take a world beater to take yer boi's job. . .


:D

[MOtorboat]

Things I've learned: Any running back taken in the draft comes with irrational and unrealistic expectations. Good lord, people hate Hillman just completely irrationally.

Dude was a solid contributor to winning football teams. Good grief.

[BroncoWave]

sorry, but i don't have time to chart all the times he's missed blocks, or hit the wrong hole. . . i have to work again this month. . .




so, i should assume you don't have an answer to the question?

also, good luck finding the part where i said bibbs was or would be anything special. . . it doesn't exactly take a world beater to take yer boi's job. . .


:D

Bibbs was cheaper than Ronnie and better on special teams, that's why he made it. From a pure running back perspective though, Bibbs has never done anything to show he is the better player other than run over guys in the preseason who will be selling cars soon.

Ronnie will find work somewhere, and I would be willing to guarantee he will be more productive wherever he goes than Bibbs will be here.

[BroncoWave]

Things I've learned: Any running back taken in the draft comes with irrational and unrealistic expectations. Good lord, people hate Hillman just completely irrationally.

Dude was a solid contributor to winning football teams. Good grief.

100% fact. Had Hillman been undrafted and had the career he had here, he would not get a fraction of the shit he got from our fans in his career. It's just downright stupid. And had CJ been a third round pick, he likely would not be nearly as beloved. He'd certainly get way less of a pass than he currently gets for barely being able to stay on the field.

It's really incredible how where guys get drafted color how people view them. Same thing happened with Moreno.

The fact of the matter is, running stats are down across the league. Teams don't have feature backs anymore like they used to and just don't run the ball as much. So people look at Hillman's production as a third rounder and call him a "failure" but looking at his numbers from the persepective of today's NFL, he was pretty much average. Certainly not the terrible player he has been painted to be.

[dogfish]

Things I've learned: Any running back taken in the draft comes with irrational and unrealistic expectations. Good lord, people hate Hillman just completely irrationally.

Dude was a solid contributor to winning football teams. Good grief.

don't make me list all the late round picks and UDFAs that have out-classed third round ronnie in this scheme!

you don't want none of that, buddy boy. . .

[MOtorboat]

don't make me list all the late round picks and UDFAs that have out-classed third round ronnie in this scheme!

you don't want none of that, buddy boy. . .

You misunderstand. I don't care. People make way too much out of draft positions. They just do.

You wouldn't list Tom Brady's accomplishments and draft position to downgrade Aaron Rodgers. That's absurd. Come on, now.

[dogfish]

Bibbs was cheaper than Ronnie and better on special teams, that's why he made it.

cheaper by about two dollars, in NFL terms. . . but go ahead and kid yourself, if you honestly think money had anything to do with it. . . ;)

and, since you still didn't answer the question, claire. . . tell us again WHY ronnie doesn't play special teams, and kapri does. . .



you know. . . aside from the fact that ronnie is a lazy bum who relied on his draft position and god-given straight-line speed, while bibbs is an overachiever who has actually worked diligently at his craft. . .

[dogfish]

You misunderstand. I don't care. People make way too much out of draft positions. They just do.

You wouldn't list Tom Brady's accomplishments and draft position to downgrade Aaron Rodgers. That's absurd. Come on, now.

no-- and i wouldn't defend ronnie f'n hillman, either! talk about absurd. . . :D :heh:

[MOtorboat]

no-- and i wouldn't defend ronnie f'n hillman, either! talk about absurd. . . :D :heh:

I just hope Booker is ready to go when CJ goes down. That's gonna happen. Why don't people bad mouth Anderson because he can't stay healthy. He's on a big ass contract now. He better stay on the field, right?

[dogfish]

I just hope Booker is ready to go when CJ goes down. That's gonna happen. Why don't people bad mouth Anderson because he can't stay healthy. He's on a big ass contract now. He better stay on the field, right?

let's be fair. . .

that contract is elways' fault, not CJ's. . .


also, people don't badmouth CJ because being fragile isn't a guy's fault-- being lazy and soft IS, and that's why people don't like hillman. . .

[MOtorboat]

let's be fair. . .

that contract is elways' fault, not CJ's. . .


also, people don't badmouth CJ because being fragile isn't a guy's fault-- being lazy and soft IS, and that's why people don't like hillman. . .

Wait. So Anderson can't help his contract, but Hillman can answer for his draft spot.

Come on, man. That's just bull.

[MOtorboat]

As I recall, you're also a big critic of Julius Thomas' inability to stay on the field. Why were you critical of him and not Anderson?

Hmmm.

[dogfish]

As I recall, you're also a big critic of Julius Thomas' inability to stay on the field. Why were you critical of him and not Anderson?

Hmmm.

are you serious with this junk, or are you just playin'?

[MOtorboat]

are you serious with this junk, or are you just playin'?

Nope. If you criticized Thomas for injuries, you should criticize Anderson, no? Especially when you play the "you can't blame Anderson for his contract" card after you criticized Hillman for his draft spot.

I'm trying to address why your arguments seem to be inconsistent.

[dogfish]

Nope. If you criticized Thomas for injuries, you should criticize Anderson, no? Especially when you play the "you can't blame Anderson for his contract" card after you criticized Hillman for his draft spot.

I'm trying to address why your arguments seem to be inconsistent.

it's not. . .

three words, MO! kicking and screaming. . .

CJ anderson is injury prone. . . julius thomas is one of the softest poosies who has ever put on a broncos uniform. . . john elway has made about two mistakes in his five or so years at the helm-- re-signing CJ and letting julius walk don't appear anywhere on that list, and you know why in both cases. . . kicking and screaming, MO. . .

[MOtorboat]

it's not. . .

three words, MO! kicking and screaming. . .

CJ anderson is injury prone. . . julius thomas is one of the softest poosies who has ever put on a broncos uniform. . . john elway has made about two mistakes in his five or so years at the helm-- re-signing CJ and letting julius walk don't appear anywhere on that list, and you know why in both cases. . . kicking and screaming, MO. . .

Lol. That's funny. CJ can't stay on the field. Thomas couldn't stay on the field. Be consistent. Anderson is now way overpaid and I hope Booker is ready to go when he gets hurt.

[Valar Morghulis]

I'm glad Thomas left for the same reason if CJ left I would not have lost too much sleep.... The injuries are a factor, but attitude as well.

I hate how cj hobbles off after every drive... That makes me question his toughness as well

But

JT was a money grabber who had ideas above his station, CJ wanted to be a Bronco, while I think Elway messed up his contract ..... Give me talent and a desire to play in Denver over elite talent and a bad attitude any day.

But yeah, Booker will get a lot of carries and I hope he is ready too..... And if he is..... And CJ can't stay healthy again...... Move on from CJ with his injury history justifying the decision

[dogfish]

Lol. That's funny. CJ can't stay on the field. Thomas couldn't stay on the field. Be consistent. Anderson is now way overpaid and I hope Booker is ready to go when he gets hurt.

i AM consistent, MO-- i want guys to be kicking and screaming, regardless of their durability. . . i thought i'd been clear on this already. . .


anderson IS overpaid, no one has questioned this. . . he's overpaid because john elway wanted it that way, not because of my message board posts. . . i also hope booker is ready to go-- he shouldn't have to accomplish much of anything for you guys to love him, given how much you think of worthless ronnie. . .

[MOtorboat]

i AM consistent, MO-- i want guys to be kicking and screaming, regardless of their durability. . . i thought i'd been clear on this already. . .


anderson IS overpaid, no one has questioned this. . . he's overpaid because john elway wanted it that way, not because of my message board posts. . . i also hope booker is ready to go-- he shouldn't have to accomplish much of anything for you guys to love him, given how much you think of worthless ronnie. . .

If you don't criticize Anderson for his contract and criticize Hillman for his draft spot, you are inconsistent. These are things players can't control. Same as injuries.

Fine, Hillman didn't make the team because they're rolling with Anderson and Booker (Bibbs didn't beat Hillman, Bibbs plays special teams and if he gets a carry, Denver has big problems). Cool, you get the "I told you so" or something like that. But, Hillman was a solid contributor to a bunch of winning football teams and wears a Super Bowl ring for it. I don't understand the irrational hate.

[dogfish]

If you don't criticize Anderson for his contract and criticize Hillman for his draft spot, you are inconsistent. These are things players can't control. Same as injuries.

Fine, Hillman didn't make the team because they're rolling with Anderson and Booker (Bibbs didn't beat Hillman, Bibbs plays special teams and if he gets a carry, Denver has big problems). Cool, you get the "I told you so" or something like that. But, Hillman was a solid contributor to a bunch of winning football teams and wears a Super Bowl ring for it. I don't understand the irrational hate.

1. i don't "hate" ronnie hillman. . . he's probably an extremely decent person who helps old ladies across the street-- i just think he sucks ass at professional football. . .

2. glen cadrez also has a super bowl ring. . .

3. i told you, criticize john for CJ's contract, if you want. . . i already said he isn't worth it. . . is it okay if the best GM in football still makes a mistake here and there?

[MOtorboat]

1. i don't "hate" ronnie hillman. . . he's probably an extremely decent person who helps old ladies across the street-- i just think he sucks ass at professional football. . .

2. glen cadrez also has a super bowl ring. . .

3. i told you, criticize john for CJ's contract, if you want. . . i already said he isn't worth it. . . is it okay if the best GM in football still makes a mistake here and there?

Hillman can't control his draft position either, so why did you criticize that? Be consistent.

You can try and pin this on me criticizing Elway, which I'm not doing. I'm pointing out the inconsistencies in the arguments against Hillman. It all has to do with his draft status. You illustrated that earlier. But you won't criticize Anderson for the contract because that's on the GM. It's just complete inconsistency. You use it because you don't like Hillman and you like Anderson, not for any logical argument.

[dogfish]

[QUOTE=MOtorboat;2524293]Hillman can't control his left from his right[/QUOTE=MOtorboat]

true 'nuf. . .

[atwater27]

LOL this thread is funny and entertaining. Continue.

[underrated29]

Wow, look what I wake up to.


Who gives a shit where Hillman as drafted. Guy sucks. That's all that matters. We have a player on this team who ants to be here.

Lol when Kapri gets a few carries and does well, I will point it out for you two.


Who cares how much he was paid, where he was drafted or anything else. Guy sucks. No one said anything about lance ball. He sucked and is gone. No one said anything about selvin young, monte ball, Tatum bell. They sucked and are gone. Hillman is IMO worse then all of them aside from ball.

[Northman]

So much drama over a very average RB who isnt even here anymore. lol

[BroncoWave]

I just hope Booker is ready to go when CJ goes down. That's gonna happen. Why don't people bad mouth Anderson because he can't stay healthy. He's on a big ass contract now. He better stay on the field, right?

People KILLED Moreno for his injury issues, absolutely killed him. But CJ gets a total pass for it. It's really incredible. But again, Moreno was a first round pick, so I guess that means he isn't allowed to get hurt.

[Slick]

Wow, look what I wake up to.


Who gives a shit where Hillman as drafted. Guy sucks. That's all that matters. We have a player on this team who ants to be here.

Lol when Kapri gets a few carries and does well, I will point it out for you two.


Who cares how much he was paid, where he was drafted or anything else. Guy sucks. No one said anything about lance ball. He sucked and is gone. No one said anything about selvin young, monte ball, Tatum bell. They sucked and are gone. Hillman is IMO worse then all of them aside from ball.

Tatum Bell was great on NFL 2K5.

[BroncoWave]

Wow, look what I wake up to.


Who gives a shit where Hillman as drafted. Guy sucks. That's all that matters. We have a player on this team who ants to be here.

Lol when Kapri gets a few carries and does well, I will point it out for you two.


Who cares how much he was paid, where he was drafted or anything else. Guy sucks. No one said anything about lance ball. He sucked and is gone. No one said anything about selvin young, monte ball, Tatum bell. They sucked and are gone. Hillman is IMO worse then all of them aside from ball.

Hillman was 14th in the NFL in rushing yards, 10th in the league in rushing TD, and and 22nd out of 47 qualified players in yards per attempt last season. That means he was above average in every major rushing stat. I guess I fail to see how that means he "sucks". And he accomplished that despite the fact that teams knew Manning couldn't throw deep anymore and were able to focus more on stopping the run.

For some perspective, here are some players who started more games than Hillman last year, yet had fewer rushing yards: LeSean McCoy, Alfred Morris, Eddie Lacy, and Lamar Miller. And here are players who has a worse YPC: Jonathan Stewart, Matt Forte, Eddie Lacy, Devonta Freeman, Marshawn Lynch, Frank Gore, and Demarco Murray. But yeah, Hillman is just awful. Not even worth of being on a roster.

There is absolutely nothing rational about the hate for him. Any objective look at his numbers this past season absolutely blows that argument out of the water.

The real fact of the matter is, people have had their heels dug in against him since early in his career when he had a few unfortunate fumbles in key moments, and ever since then they have kept their heels dug in and refused to acknowledge his improvement as a player.

[Dapper Dan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MspNtelRkA

[underrated29]

People KILLED Moreno for his injury issues, absolutely killed him. But CJ gets a total pass for it. It's really incredible. But again, Moreno was a first round pick, so I guess that means he isn't allowed to get hurt.


I think the thing for Knowshon was he went on IR a couple of times....maybe even in a row, cant remember. CJ as far as I know only went on IR the first year when we stashed him, iirc.



Hillman was 14th in the NFL in rushing yards, 10th in the league in rushing TD, and and 22nd out of 47 qualified players in yards per attempt last season. That means he was above average in every major rushing stat. I guess I fail to see how that means he "sucks". And he accomplished that despite the fact that teams knew Manning couldn't throw deep anymore and were able to focus more on stopping the run.

For some perspective, here are some players who started more games than Hillman last year, yet had fewer rushing yards: LeSean McCoy, Alfred Morris, Eddie Lacy, and Lamar Miller. And here are players who has a worse YPC: Jonathan Stewart, Matt Forte, Eddie Lacy, Devonta Freeman, Marshawn Lynch, Frank Gore, and Demarco Murray. But yeah, Hillman is just awful. Not even worth of being on a roster.

There is absolutely nothing rational about the hate for him. Any objective look at his numbers this past season absolutely blows that argument out of the water.

The real fact of the matter is, people have had their heels dug in against him since early in his career when he had a few unfortunate fumbles in key moments, and ever since then they have kept their heels dug in and refused to acknowledge his improvement as a player.



Thats great, but there is not a single person alive who would take Ronnie over any of those players. Not one. We knows this because ALL of those RBs you listed are employed and ronnie is not. And that is all that matters. If a guy is good enough he will find a job. Look at Colquitt the punter. Got a job literally like the next day. Look at Sutton, took a few days and signed with the bears. Bishop Sankey- who totally sucks- signed on with the Pats (who have Zero RB talent aside from White and hurt lewis)..... Those guys signed quickly because they are worthy of a job. Someone else, who couldnt beat out Kapri Bibbs is still out there waiting for someone to get hurt so he can maybe fight for a job.

Maybe you dont want to take everyones word for it here. But maybe you should look at the entire league, the professionals and see what their opinion is of him. If he was that good, he would have a job. He will land somewhere I am sure, I hope it is with a team we play.

[dogfish]

Wow, look what I wake up to.


Who gives a shit where Hillman as drafted. Guy sucks. That's all that matters. We have a player on this team who ants to be here.

Lol when Kapri gets a few carries and does well, I will point it out for you two.


Who cares how much he was paid, where he was drafted or anything else. Guy sucks. No one said anything about lance ball. He sucked and is gone. No one said anything about selvin young, monte ball, Tatum bell. They sucked and are gone. Hillman is IMO worse then all of them aside from ball.

if hillman worked as hard at football as these guys do defending him, he'd still have a job. . .

[Poet]

I remember when Topscribe took Selvin Young's stance of getting 1,800 yards rushing in a season seriously.

Good times.

[chazoe60]

He will not be missed.

[BroncoWave]

I think the thing for Knowshon was he went on IR a couple of times....maybe even in a row, cant remember. CJ as far as I know only went on IR the first year when we stashed him, iirc.






Thats great, but there is not a single person alive who would take Ronnie over any of those players. Not one. We knows this because ALL of those RBs you listed are employed and ronnie is not. And that is all that matters. If a guy is good enough he will find a job. Look at Colquitt the punter. Got a job literally like the next day. Look at Sutton, took a few days and signed with the bears. Bishop Sankey- who totally sucks- signed on with the Pats (who have Zero RB talent aside from White and hurt lewis)..... Those guys signed quickly because they are worthy of a job. Someone else, who couldnt beat out Kapri Bibbs is still out there waiting for someone to get hurt so he can maybe fight for a job.

Maybe you dont want to take everyones word for it here. But maybe you should look at the entire league, the professionals and see what their opinion is of him. If he was that good, he would have a job. He will land somewhere I am sure, I hope it is with a team we play.

So how did he get those stats then? Was it thanks to our monster oline? Oh wait, everyone says our line stunk last year. Well it must have been because teams were too worried about stopping the pass. Wait, no, we had one of the worst pass offenses in the league last year. Well, it must have been because we had a bunch of big leads and were milking the clock. Nope, wasn't that, we were in pretty much nothing but close games last year.

So how could Ronnie have possibly put up the numbers he did last year if he was so horrible? Please explain it to me.

As for no one signing him yet, there hasn't even been a game played yet. He'll find his way onto a roster and be productive, much like he was here.

You mention Sankey, he was signed to the Pats practice squad, not active roster. Sitton was an all pro, so of course he got signed. And Colquitt was just overpaid, not necessarily bad.

[BroncoWave]

if hillman worked as hard at football as these guys do defending him, he'd still have a job. . .

You still haven't explained how you KNOW he doesn't work hard at football. Is it based on comments from teammates and coaches? Have you seen his practice or workout routine? What do you base this stance on?

[Timmy!]

Lol

[Buff]

"None of them" - none of them is the answer to the poll.

[BroncoJoe]

Who cares? Bibbs / Hillman? I couldn't care less at this point.

[slim]

Bibbs is on the roster and is therefore the better player.

Mods please close this POS.

[The Glue Factory]

So how did he get those stats then? Was it thanks to our monster oline? Oh wait, everyone says our line stunk last year. Well it must have been because teams were too worried about stopping the pass. Wait, no, we had one of the worst pass offenses in the league last year. Well, it must have been because we had a bunch of big leads and were milking the clock. Nope, wasn't that, we were in pretty much nothing but close games last year.

So how could Ronnie have possibly put up the numbers he did last year if he was so horrible? Please explain it to me.

As for no one signing him yet, there hasn't even been a game played yet. He'll find his way onto a roster and be productive, much like he was here.

You mention Sankey, he was signed to the Pats practice squad, not active roster. Sitton was an all pro, so of course he got signed. And Colquitt was just overpaid, not necessarily bad.

I believe Hillman ran twice as much as Anderson and ended with a similar number of yards. You ask how does Hillman get the yards? through sure volume and hoping some of his runs produce. I wonder how many of his runs were for less than 2 yards?

[BroncoJoe]

I believe Hillman ran twice as much as Anderson and ended with a similar number of yards. You ask how does Hillman get the yards? through sure volume and hoping some of his runs produce. I wonder how many of his runs were for less than 2 yards?

Yeah, no. Hillman had roughly 50 more carries than Anderson and gained 140 more yards.

Hillman wasn't a "bad" back. He just wasn't anything special. Neither is Anderson or Bibbs IMO. We'll see about Booker.

[BroncoJoe]

Yeah, no. Hillman had roughly 50 more carries than Anderson and gained 140 more yards.

Hillman wasn't a "bad" back. He just wasn't anything special. Neither is Anderson or Bibbs IMO. We'll see about Booker.

Adding on:

Anderson appears to be the much better back in the passing game though. Both caught around the same passes - Hillman @ 24 vs. Anderson @ 25 - yet Anderson gained a substantial amount of yardage over Hillman - 111 vs 183 respectively.

9398

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/den/2015.htm

[GEM]

Who cares...he isn't here now so he's off my radar of give a shits. :D

[dogfish]

hey guys, how's Ronnie Watch '16 going? surely he must be a hot commodity. . .

[turftoad]

hey guys, how's Ronnie Watch '16 going? surely he must be a hot commodity. . .

I'm surprised he hasn't been signed as a Full Back yet Dog!
Kidding.

Ronnie was a serviceable back but never the electric quick, fast back he was supposed to be.

[Dapper Dan]

Say what you want about Hillman. His long TD against the Vilings kept me from burning Denver to the ground. I didn't fly there for the weekend to see a loss. Peace be with you, Ronnie.

[Hawgdriver]

You misunderstand. I don't care. People make way too much out of draft positions. They just do.

You wouldn't list Tom Brady's accomplishments and draft position to downgrade Aaron Rodgers. That's absurd. Come on, now.

MO walks into this discussion like a grown up among kids.