Bitter Brock

[ShaneFalco]

Brock Osweiler reportedly cut off communication with Broncos coaches and teammates 2 weeks ago, and it was a damning sign

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/brock-osweiler-reportedly-cut-off-234033743.html



But as more details about Osweiler's decision emerge, the more it sounds like Osweiler had no interest in re-signing in Denver. It also sounds like the Broncos knew Osweiler wasn't coming back.

According to Mike Klis of News 9 in Denver, the Broncos started to get a strong sense that Osweiler might sign elsewhere as far back as two weeks ago, when he cut off all communication from the team. Klis reports that Osweiler stopped returning phone calls from coaches and teammates entirely. Generally, this is a good sign a player's moving on. Still, John Elway and the Broncos offered him a four-year, $64 million contract ($16 million per year).

Osweiler instead took the Texans' four-year, $72 million deal. But money wasn't the only factor at play. He also reportedly felt slighted by the fact that the Broncos had benched him during Week 17, opting to give the offense back to Manning and stick with Manning for the duration of the playoffs. After Manning won a Super Bowl, Osweiler reportedly felt that it would be hard to step out from Manning's shadow. All of this led him to Houston.

[Cugel]

No doubt Brock was mad. But, seriously? This crap is getting ridiculous!

He's getting $21 M this season. His $37M guaranteed contract is more guaranteed money than Andrew Luck, Tom Brady, Ben Roethlisberger, Eli Manning, and Russell Wilson.

"Money wasn't all of it". B.S. If the Broncos offered more money, he'd be here. Their offer wasn't even close.

If his leaving was such a done deal, why did the Texans offer him $7M more? All this "Brock was mad" stuff sounds like the kinds of explanations the jilted boy-friend offers up about why his girl-friend left, when in reality the new guy offered her a Lexus. Maybe she was mad. But, if you'd been the one offering her the Lexus, she'd have suddenly been a lot less mad.

[ShaneFalco]

He cut off the team and his coaches 2 weeks before FA.

I really don't know what to tell you Cugel.

He was obviously butthurt.

[FanInAZ]

No doubt Brock was mad. But, seriously? This crap is getting ridiculous!

He's getting $21 M this season. His $37M guaranteed contract is more guaranteed money than Andrew Luck, Tom Brady, Ben Roethlisberger, Eli Manning, and Russell Wilson.

"Money wasn't all of it". B.S. If the Broncos offered more money, he'd be here. Their offer wasn't even close.

If his leaving was such a done deal, why did the Texans offer him $7M more? All this "Brock was mad" stuff sounds like the kinds of explanations the jilted boy-friend offers up about why his girl-friend left, when in reality the new guy offered her a Lexus. Maybe she was mad. But, if you'd been the one offering her the Lexus, she'd have suddenly been a lot less mad.

Actually, I think Shane just jumping to conclusions about Brock's attitude that the article doesn't address. It only states that Brock broke off communication, it doesn't explain why. I could simply be that he's been with the Broncos long enough to know how Elway does business & therefore knew that he was never going to get the money from Elway that he could get from another team. Its true that you'll sometimes hear players claim they're being "disrespected" by their team if they're not offered as much as they believe they're worth, but I've seen no quote attributed to Oz himself that suggests that he feels this way.

[MOtorboat]

No doubt Brock was mad. But, seriously? This crap is getting ridiculous!

He's getting $21 M this season. His $37M guaranteed contract is more guaranteed money than Andrew Luck, Tom Brady, Ben Roethlisberger, Eli Manning, and Russell Wilson.

"Money wasn't all of it". B.S. If the Broncos offered more money, he'd be here. Their offer wasn't even close.

If his leaving was such a done deal, why did the Texans offer him $7M more? All this "Brock was mad" stuff sounds like the kinds of explanations the jilted boy-friend offers up about why his girl-friend left, when in reality the new guy offered her a Lexus. Maybe she was mad. But, if you'd been the one offering her the Lexus, she'd have suddenly been a lot less mad.

You clearly don't have a clue, or just don't want to deal with any sort of reality.

I'm guessing that all of your pre-determined outcomes from the past four days turned out to be all false and utterly wrong, and now you're trying to make excuses for being a blowhard.

[silkamilkamonico]

Hope Brock rips it up in Houston, just not at the expense of the Broncos. Dude got f'n paid and you can't blame him for leaving.

[broncofaninfla]

While I don't think he deserved to be benched when he was, I still think that is a childish stupid reason to stop talking to the team IF there is any truth to this story.

Question: Did Brock issue any statements thanking Denver since leaving?

[silkamilkamonico]

While I don't think he deserved to be benched when he was, I still think that is a childish stupid reason to stop talking to the team IF there is any truth to this story.

Question: Did Brock issue any statements thanking Denver since leaving?


Yes and a more than generous one. Thanked the entire organization and thanked Peyton.

[weazel]

I just passed gas

[artie_dale]

No doubt Brock was mad. But, seriously? This crap is getting ridiculous!

He's getting $21 M this season. His $37M guaranteed contract is more guaranteed money than Andrew Luck, Tom Brady, Ben Roethlisberger, Eli Manning, and Russell Wilson.

"Money wasn't all of it". B.S. If the Broncos offered more money, he'd be here. Their offer wasn't even close.

If his leaving was such a done deal, why did the Texans offer him $7M more? All this "Brock was mad" stuff sounds like the kinds of explanations the jilted boy-friend offers up about why his girl-friend left, when in reality the new guy offered her a Lexus. Maybe she was mad. But, if you'd been the one offering her the Lexus, she'd have suddenly been a lot less mad.

Whether Brock left for being butt sore or for the money, all his talk from the time he started to the time after and since then was all for show. But, come on... who wouldn't pass up the kind of money Houston offered him. I definitely still believe Elway didn't lowball him. Elway and Kubes are MUCH closer to knowing what Brock is capable of than any of us or Houston. I think Elway's responsibility to the team is what showed most in his offer to Brock, and nothing more.

[BroncoNut]

this is a business, gotta watch out for your own interests. I'm disappointed to see Brock go, given what's currently available, but I just can't hold anything against him for doing so, kinda wish him the best, barring the obvious, for sure

[Cugel]

You clearly don't have a clue, or just don't want to deal with any sort of reality.

I'm guessing that all of your pre-determined outcomes from the past four days turned out to be all false and utterly wrong, and now you're trying to make excuses for being a blowhard.

Well, turns out you're the one who was wrong!

According to Mike Silver, NFL Network:



Michael Silver Verified account
‏@MikeSilver

4) I'm told 1 reason for Osweiler's dissatisfaction in Denver was he felt he lacked options in Kubiak's offense. Sought more freedom at line


Does NOT say "he was mad because he was benched and that was why he wanted to get out of Denver." And in fact, that's exactly what Brock has now said as well.

So, who's the blowhard now? You talk big, but you don't bother to do any research.

Even if Osweiler had loved the Kubiak offense, it would be almost impossible to turn down an extra $8 M over the lifetime of the contract ($72M versus $64M). Houston's offer blew the Denver offer right out of the water.

[ShaneFalco]

http://broncoswire.usatoday.com/2016...nd-john-elway/

"During Super Bowl media week, Osweiler was asked who he would rather have at quarterback if he needed to win one game—Peyton Manning, or John Elway?"

“Myself,” Osweiler said after very little hesitation, with no further explanation.

[Cugel]

Whether Brock left for being butt sore or for the money, all his talk from the time he started to the time after and since then was all for show. But, come on... who wouldn't pass up the kind of money Houston offered him. I definitely still believe Elway didn't lowball him. Elway and Kubes are MUCH closer to knowing what Brock is capable of than any of us or Houston. I think Elway's responsibility to the team is what showed most in his offer to Brock, and nothing more.

I think it's hard to defend Elway in this negotiation.

You certainly have to defer to Elway's judgement as to how good of a QB Osweiler is. No fans or media "experts" can second guess a Hall of Fame QB on that score.

But, having made the decision that he wanted Brock to be his franchise QB and ultimately being willing to offer Osweiler $16 M a year on a $64M contract with $30M guaranteed, you have to question why he ever let Osweiler become a FA in the first place.

That's an incredible amount of money for a guy who's only started 7 games, and Elway came off his initial offer of $13M a year and went to $16M and added a 4th year to the contract. He caved in the negotiations at the last minute, yet all it did was help Osweiler get a bigger contract from Houston.

Why didn't Elway lock up Osweiler for 2016 last July when they could have done it for backup QB money? $5-$6 M a year because Osweiler had never started a game, and at that point the plan was for Manning to start every game, so it was unlikely Osweiler would ever see the field in 2015, and at the end of it, he'd still be a complete unknown backup QB with no starts.

Failing to do that, when Osweiler started 7 games and started winning, why didn't Elway start re-negotiating with his agent right then and work out a deal during the season, before Brock was about to become a FA? He negotiated a new contract with Chris Harris during the season, so he can't use that as an excuse.

Then when the SB was over, why didn't they immediately make their best offer? At least when Sam Bradford got $18 M a year and it became obvious that desperate teams were throwing insane money at QBs and Osweiler became the biggest FA QB available Elway should have realized that some desperate team was going to go after Osweiler hard and give him similar money - as in fact Houston did.

The Broncos desperately needed to lock Osweiler up BEFORE FA started - the worst thing they could have done was wait until FA started and the other teams started playing "can you top this?"

The one thing in all these negotiations that was obvious from the start is that the Broncos COULD NOT possibly win a bidding war for Osweiler. If he decided to test FA that meant he was going to take the best offer (from a reasonably good team - he didn't negotiate with Cleveland).

Denver was never going to give him the best offer.

And then they clearly had no Plan B in mind, and are now scrambling around to figure out who their starting QB is. Mike Evans said this AM that this is the first time in NFL History that a defending SB champion had no idea who their starting QB the next season was only a couple of weeks after their SB parade.

IF Brock refused whatever Elway felt to be his BEST Offer - and not the B.S. "line in the sand" that he stepped over on Wednesday (going from $13M to $16M a year is not sticking with a "line in the sand"), then they should have been working on a Plan B two weeks ago and not waiting around for Peyton to make up his mind about his retirement party and going on vacation and going hunting with his former C Jeff Saturday.

This is just failure all around by Elway. Failure to secure his franchise QB when it would be easy. Failure to re-negotiate during the season when it was already obvious Manning wasn't coming back. Failure to lock up Osweiler after the SB and waiting on Manning. Failure to make their best offer before Brock became a FA. Failure to anticipate that other teams with a lot more cap room, and who were a lot more desperate would throw insane money at any warm body.

Worst of all, failure to have a Plan B in mind when it became obvious that Brock intended to test FA and take the best offer.

Failure all around.

[BroncoJoe]

Some people are just stupid. Good grief.

[BroncoNut]

Some people are just stupid. Good grief.

what do you mean?

[Cugel]

this is a business, gotta watch out for your own interests. I'm disappointed to see Brock go, given what's currently available, but I just can't hold anything against him for doing so, kinda wish him the best, barring the obvious, for sure

Sure. Seems like AGap is one of the few stating the obvious. Brock had $8M reasons to go to Houston. They probably would have given him $19M a year if Denver would have matched the $72M offer.

They were totally desperate for a QB who didn't totally suck and willing to pay whatever it took. Which is why Elway should never have let it get to that point where they were bidding against those guys.

[WARHORSE]

Oz has an agent. An experienced one.

Im sure they spoke about every aspect of his decision to leave and all the things mentioned have had bearing Im sure.

If hes a little bitter......glad you left.

If you dont want to be playing in Peytons shadow........glad you left.

If you wanted the extra cash.........glad you left.

If Kubes offense didnt offer you enough options........glad you left, its not like you couldnt express that to Kubiak.

Thank you for your time here and thank you for letting us know you werent the right one for us.






In the end, Im glad Brock is in Texas because thats where he belongs.

[artie_dale]

Sure. Seems like AGap is one of the few stating the obvious. Brock had $8M reasons to go to Houston. They probably would have given him $19M a year if Denver would have matched the $72M offer.

They were totally desperate for a QB who didn't totally suck and willing to pay whatever it took. Which is why Elway should never have let it get to that point where they were bidding against those guys.

https://twitter.com/NFL_DovKleiman/status/707916518181490689


Teams that spent most in FA the past 10 years are: #Dolphins, #Jaguars, #Eagles, #Redskins, #Buccaneers, #Browns got 1 playoff win since '07

Says it all right there. If we don't make that list, then we are on the right track.

[slim]

https://twitter.com/NFL_DovKleiman/status/707916518181490689



Says it all right there. If we don't make that list, then we are on the right track.

Yep

[BroncoJoe]

11% difference in the contracts.

Brock is an idiot.

[artie_dale]

11% difference in the contracts.

Brock is an idiot.

Nah. Elway is still a genius.

[BroncoNut]

.

Thank you for your time here and thank you for letting us know you werent the right one for us.






In the end, Im glad Brock is in Texas because thats where he belongs.

he belongs in Texas? how much bank do you have on the line in all of this? who is the bitter one here?

I have faith in Elway and Kubes, John in particular, seem like he knows what he's doing, glad he held on to the money, it's probably better spent elsewhere. but hey, what do I know? apparently he was worth it to Houston.

[MOtorboat]

Well, turns out you're the one who was wrong!

According to Mike Silver, NFL Network:



Does NOT say "he was mad because he was benched and that was why he wanted to get out of Denver." And in fact, that's exactly what Brock has now said as well.

So, who's the blowhard now? You talk big, but you don't bother to do any research.

Even if Osweiler had loved the Kubiak offense, it would be almost impossible to turn down an extra $8 M over the lifetime of the contract ($72M versus $64M). Houston's offer blew the Denver offer right out of the water.

:confused:

That tweet doesn't support your argument.

[tripp]

Probably used Broncos as leverage to get more $$$ in Houston, either way sounds like he was Houston bound.

By November/December we'll all be laughing at this.

[Slick]

Elway simply didn't like Brock as much as some people here do. Get over it.

[ShaneFalco]

Oz has an agent. An experienced one.

Im sure they spoke about every aspect of his decision to leave and all the things mentioned have had bearing Im sure.

the same agent who represents tannahell and that crazy deal.

[Cugel]

https://twitter.com/NFL_DovKleiman/status/707916518181490689



Says it all right there. If we don't make that list, then we are on the right track.

Desperate teams rarely do well. Alfred Williams yesterday pointed out that the Dolphins have spent more money in FA than any other team. They went 6-10.

[slim]

Desperate teams rarely do well. Alfred Williams yesterday pointed out that the Dolphins have spent more money in FA than any other team. They went 6-10.

I pointed that out yesterday too, while you were crying because Denver didn't overpay for Brock.

Weird.

[tripp]

Desperate teams rarely do well. Alfred Williams yesterday pointed out that the Dolphins have spent more money in FA than any other team. They went 6-10.

Dolphins are handicapped because of Tannehill's deal. Under performing QB with that kind of money can kill a team

[tripp]

Gonna be sooooooo awkward when Brock goes to visit the White House with the Broncos.....

[BroncoJoe]

Gonna be sooooooo awkward when Brock goes to visit the White House with the Broncos.....

His invite was lost in the mail.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

There are two sides to every story, and in the wake of Brock Osweiler spurning the Broncos to sign a four-year, $72 million deal with the Texans, we're hearing both.

Broncos president John Elway didn't mince words Wednesday, saying "We've stayed true to our philosophy of building a team with players who want to be Denver Broncos and want to be here."

Meanwhile, Osweiler's decision wasn't just about money, according to Yahoo.com's Charles Robinson, but went back to the 2015 season, when coach Gary Kubiak benched him for Peyton Manning. And that was just the beginning.

Osweiler also took issue with the team putting his contract on the back burner while Manning contemplated retirement, not to mention the pressure of having to be "The guy to follow Manning," a proposition that didn't work out well for Brian Griese when he replaced Elway after the 1998 season.

More from Robinson:

So Denver waited for Manning, and Osweiler had time to sit and stew. He had time to think about the benching and what it would be like to take the team over if Manning left. And he had time to consider whether his growth and success would instantly be measured against a Hall of Fame quarterback who rode into the sunset after a Super Bowl-winning season. That's not exactly easy. Manning was close to the players in the offensive huddle, particularly the receivers. Would it still be Manning's team, even if he was gone?

rest - http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25511791/report-brock-osweilers-decision-not-just-about-money-upset-he-was-benched

[BroncoJoe]

rest - http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25511791/report-brock-osweilers-decision-not-just-about-money-upset-he-was-benched

Wus.

[Northman]

Brock is so full of disappoint.

[wayninja]

His invite was lost in the mail.

I actually heard it was a fax machine malfunction.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Osweiler's Press Conference Today - I watched it all on NFL Network. This is what is on Houston's website. If this is not all, maybe someone can find the entire conference

http://www.houstontexans.com/tv-media/videos/Why-Brock-Osweiler-chose-the-Texans/a46f947c-57e5-45a7-902c-445ea5bf5b00

[gregbroncs]

While I don't think he deserved to be benched when he was, I still think that is a childish stupid reason to stop talking to the team IF there is any truth to this story.

Question: Did Brock issue any statements thanking Denver since leaving?When you are disrespected It's not childish and stupid to want to move onto a place where you are respected. I said it then, benching him was going to insure he left. I don't know how they could have expected any less.

[Northman]

When you are disrespected It's not childish and stupid to want to move onto a place where you are respected. I said it then, benching him was going to insure he left. I don't know how they could have expected any less.

I disagree.

Its not like he was benched for Akili Smith or Ryan Leaf. While he was not at fault for the turnovers in that game the team simply was not responding to any kind of leadership or direction that he possessed. While Manning did not carry Denver to a win with his arm in that game he was the motivation that the team evidently needed to get their focus back and it worked. At the end of the day its about the team as a whole, not just one person. The goal is to win no matter how you get it done and when you still have a HOF'r like Manning on the team who generates a lot of respect from the other players you have to be mature enough to understand the circumstances presented in front of you. Sadly, Brock could not understand and thus became selfish because of it. Those players never said anything negative about Brock before or after that game, they treated him like a teammate and on the way out of town it is HE who has shown disrespect to his former teammates. Not the other way around.

[artie_dale]

When you are disrespected It's not childish and stupid to want to move onto a place where you are respected. I said it then, benching him was going to insure he left. I don't know how they could have expected any less.

I agree with North. Brock wasn't "disrespected". A coach had to make a decision because, even though Brock wasn't causing turnovers, he was ineffective, and that is almost as bad. If a player puts himself ahead of the team like Brock apparently did (feeling disrespected), he's got a shit-ton to learn about being apart of a team, being a good leader (imo, he hasn't learned good followership yet), and to be humble.

The entire team, the entire situation, hell, even Peyton Manning, is way, way bigger than he is. All his press conferences that were precisely and perfectly PC, all seems fake now.

[The Glue Factory]

I disagree.

Its not like he was benched for Akili Smith or Ryan Leaf. While he was not at fault for the turnovers in that game the team simply was not responding to any kind of leadership or direction that he possessed. While Manning did not carry Denver to a win with his arm in that game he was the motivation that the team evidently needed to get their focus back and it worked. At the end of the day its about the team as a whole, not just one person. The goal is to win no matter how you get it done and when you still have a HOF'r like Manning on the team who generates a lot of respect from the other players you have to be mature enough to understand the circumstances presented in front of you. Sadly, Brock could not understand and thus became selfish because of it. Those players never said anything negative about Brock before or after that game, they treated him like a teammate and on the way out of town it is HE who has shown disrespect to his former teammates. Not the other way around.

I seem to recall Manning getting benched in a game this year as well.

[BroncoJoe]

I agree with North. Brock wasn't "disrespected". A coach had to make a decision because, even though Brock wasn't causing turnovers, he was ineffective, and that is almost as bad. If a player puts himself ahead of the team like Brock apparently did (feeling disrespected), he's got a shit-ton to learn about being apart of a team, being a good leader (imo, he hasn't learned good followership yet), and to be humble.

The entire team, the entire situation, hell, even Peyton Manning, is way, way bigger than he is. All his press conferences that were precisely and perfectly PC, all seems fake now.

Brock had 2 picks and a lost fumble in that game.

[artie_dale]

Brock had 2 picks and a lost fumble in that game.

Well then, that proves the point even more. Thx, Joe.

[turftoad]

Brock had 2 picks and a lost fumble in that game.

Who is Brock?

[Denver Native (Carol)]

from article - much more leading up to this. article was written before he signed with Houston.


But if Denver thought that Osweiler had even a decent shot at being a franchise quarterback, he would have taken precedent over all of them. Including Miller.

AND


What makes Osweiler different?

That's a good question that doesn't seem to have a good answer.

His 5-2 record as a starter last year is mostly meaningless for two reasons: The Broncos had the best defense in the NFL and he still got benched for Manning, the worst QB in the league at that point. Osweiler threw a pick in five of the eight games where he got significant action, including two in his last start against the Chargers in which Manning came in to close it out for a fourth quarter comeback victory.

If you look at his 4-2 record as a starter in which he also finished the game, the point differential was +15; average margin of victory was 2.5 points. Osweiler "beat" the Patriots? Watch again. Osweiler was horrible. Tom Brady was amazing. Down 21-7 in the fourth quarter, Osweiler had a quick three-and-out and Chris Harper muffed the punt. C.J. Anderson scored on a 15-yard touchdown run. Brady completed a 51-yard pass to Keshawn Martin but Tre Jackson was called for holding. Osweiler completed only three short passes on the next drive, which ended in a field goal. They got the ball back again and Osweiler quickly went 0-for-3 to force another punt. Only on the final drive did he finally complete a couple deep passes, but again penalties kept the door open for the Broncos to take a lead. Brady magically forced OT, but the Broncos defense forced a punt and Anderson ran it in from 48 yards out to win the game.

This is not anything close to an example like "Wilson has a great defense so he shouldn't get credit for wins." They both have great defenses, but Wilson has clearly bailed out the defense many times before too. Osweiler has not.

full article - much more
http://www.fieldgulls.com/2016/3/7/11174364/brock-osweiler-and-the-nfls-next-bad-qb-contract

[wayninja]

When you are disrespected It's not childish and stupid to want to move onto a place where you are respected. I said it then, benching him was going to insure he left. I don't know how they could have expected any less.

If benching him "ensured" that he'd leave. Good riddance. Hope he earns the respect he seems to think he's entitled to.

[MOtorboat]

No one disrespected Osweiler. He was the backup to a Hall of Famer. If he expected to keep the starting job when the Hall of Famer was healthy, then I start to wonder about his intelligence.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

rest - http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25511791/report-brock-osweilers-decision-not-just-about-money-upset-he-was-benched

This is a lot of conjecture. Anyone sitting on their couch could have written this. Journalism is so freaking lazy and irresponsible these days.

[MOtorboat]

This is a lot of conjecture. Anyone sitting on their couch could have written this. Journalism is so freaking lazy and irresponsible these days.

Yes, it's conjecture. It's an opinion piece and isn't asking to be considered hard news.

[gregbroncs]

If benching him "ensured" that he'd leave. Good riddance. Hope he earns the respect he seems to think he's entitled to.He was benched for a player he had outplayed. Then they dicked around with him in the off season waiting for said inferior player to announce his intentions. I don't know how much disrespect you expect a guy to put up with but that was a lot. I said then he shouldn't have been benched for Manning and saw it as a slap in the face to Brock when he was. I said then it was a mistake and would likely affect this off season.

[BroncoWave]

He was benched for a player he had outplayed. Then they dicked around with him in the off season waiting for said inferior player to announce his intentions. I don't know how much disrespect you expect a guy to put up with but that was a lot. I said then he shouldn't have been benched for Manning and saw it as a slap in the face to Brock when he was. I said then it was a mistake and would likely affect this off season.

He outplayed an injured Manning. He was replaced by a healthier Manning.

If Brock stays in that San Diego game, we almost definitely are not celebrating a title right now.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Yes, it's conjecture. It's an opinion piece and isn't asking to be considered hard news.

That's not the impression I got from the headline. It gave me the impression it had a source.

[gregbroncs]

He outplayed an injured Manning. He was replaced by a healthier Manning.

If Brock stays in that San Diego game, we almost definitely are not celebrating a title right now.That could definitely be debated. Manning didn't do much to get us back in that game, just hand the ball off. Manning in that game did not outplay Brock. Manning did not outplay brock in any game this season except the GB game. Every game Brock had outside of SD was better than any game Manning played the entire year except the GB one. My trouble with the way it was handled mostly has to do with them expecting Brock to seriously consider re-signing with them after they continually disrespected him. They should have expected it, not been surprised by the outcome.

[The Glue Factory]

That could definitely be debated. Manning didn't do much to get us back in that game, just hand the ball off. Manning in that game did not outplay Brock. Manning did not outplay brock in any game this season except the GB game. Every game Brock had outside of SD was better than any game Manning played the entire year except the GB one. My trouble with the way it was handled mostly has to do with them expecting Brock to seriously consider re-signing with them after they continually disrespected him. They should have expected it, not been surprised by the outcome.


Manning may not have had a tangible impact on statistics but his leadership definitely provided a spark that Brock WASN'T providing. Need anyone be reminded that Manning was benched himself earlier in the year? Granted he was injured but it seems like he was hiding that from Kubiak until his play had declined to such an abysmal level that Kubes was forced to bench him. It seems that Brock expected things were different than what they were.

[BroncoWave]

That could definitely be debated. Manning didn't do much to get us back in that game, just hand the ball off. Manning in that game did not outplay Brock. Manning did not outplay brock in any game this season except the GB game. Every game Brock had outside of SD was better than any game Manning played the entire year except the GB one. My trouble with the way it was handled mostly has to do with them expecting Brock to seriously consider re-signing with them after they continually disrespected him. They should have expected it, not been surprised by the outcome.

Listen to the comments of Manning's teammates and coaches after that game and tell me Manning did nothing to impact that game. Pretty much everyone across the board said his presence alone calmed everyone down and raised the level of his teammates. Do you really think we were winning that game the way it was going? Even if most of those turnovers weren't Brock's fault, the team was playing like shit around him. They did not play like shit around Manning.

That kind of stuff doesn't show up in the stat sheet, which you seem married to, but it matters.

[Ravage!!!]

Listen to the comments of Manning's teammates and coaches after that game and tell me Manning did nothing to impact that game. Pretty much everyone across the board said his presence alone calmed everyone down and raised the level of his teammates. Do you really think we were winning that game the way it was going? Even if most of those turnovers weren't Brock's fault, the team was playing like shit around him. They did not play like shit around Manning.

That kind of stuff doesn't show up in the stat sheet, which you seem married to, but it matters.

Wow... you are condemning HIM for "married to the stat sheet".... really? You?

[BroncoWave]

Wow... you are condemning HIM for "married to the stat sheet".... really? You?

Just because I beat you over the head regularly with stats doesn't mean I can't analyze the game at a more advanced level. It's just so easy to kill your arguments with stats I rarely have to delve much deeper than that.

[wayninja]

He was benched for a player he had outplayed. Then they dicked around with him in the off season waiting for said inferior player to announce his intentions. I don't know how much disrespect you expect a guy to put up with but that was a lot. I said then he shouldn't have been benched for Manning and saw it as a slap in the face to Brock when he was. I said then it was a mistake and would likely affect this off season.

I expect a guy to put up with 16 million dollars of disrespect and one of the best chances to get a ring as a starter.

If a guy can't do that, then he's likely less about the team and more about himself. Which is fine, to a point. I prefer my self interest to be less obvious.

He was benched for a guy that ended up going undefeated from that moment on all the way to a superbowl. Hard to second guess that decision with the benefit of hindsight, isn't it?

[LTC Pain]

Hey, screw Brock, Jackson and Trevathan. Put the threads about them in the Black Hole. They are the enemy now. Same for CJ if he bails to the Dolphins!

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Hey, screw Brock, Jackson and Trevathan. Put the threads about them in the Black Hole. They are the enemy now. Same for CJ if he bails to the Dolphins!

They're all role players.

[Lancane]

According to Michael Silver Osweiler's level of self entitlement was/is concerning. Could have been factor in Broncos' reluctance to offer more in first offer.

[Simple Jaded]

http://broncoswire.usatoday.com/2016...nd-john-elway/

"During Super Bowl media week, Osweiler was asked who he would rather have at quarterback if he needed to win one game—Peyton Manning, or John Elway?"

“Myself,” Osweiler said after very little hesitation, with no further explanation.

Good answer.

[Joel]

Good answer.
C'mon, that was a Kobayashi Maru question Oz handled accordingly. Who'd want a starting QB who wanted the ball in ANYONE elses hands in a must-win situation? I'm disappointed in Oz thinking with his heart instead of his head, but can see why; was among those who said at the time benching him for Manning may have won us the SD game and a SB but lost us our 2016 starter. Do we want to talk about ego and entitlement:

Immediately after setting the career TD record and taking a 31 pt home lead late in the 4th against the hapless 2014 Raiders, Manning STILL wouldn't let Oz play—despite the fact he himself was playing with the torn quad that made him so useless in our lone playoff game. Given that, the perennial offseason retirement drama and all the people who said and STILL say Oz "outplayed" Manning this year, I understand Oz' decision.

It was still (IMHO) a huge mistake he'll regret sooner than later, especially with Houston dismantling their QB protection and run blocking even as Denver shores up ours. It could well prove a blessing in disguise for us: All my worries about being stuck with a "starting" QB whose play was too bad to keep but who's contract was to big to end disappeared the moment Oz signed his deal with Houston. I totally understand why he did the STUPID thing he did though.

[Simple Jaded]

Wtf are you bitching about now? I liked his answer.

[Joel]

Wtf are you bitching about now? I liked his answer.
Sorry, I thought you meant you liked Falcos answer for why Oz merits criticism. I believe we're in the minority that liked Oz' answer to the reporter. It's easy to see both sides in this, because our QB controversy didn't start last week, nor even the last regular season game of 2015. I do think Oz is cutting off his nose to spite his face though: Even ignoring the records, he'd be WAY better off starting for us than Houston (that's why our records are so different.) Oh, well.

[The Glue Factory]

Immediately after setting the career TD record and taking a 31 pt home lead late in the 4th against the hapless 2014 Raiders, Manning STILL wouldn't let Oz play—despite the fact he himself was playing with the torn quad that made him so useless in our lone playoff game. Given that, the perennial offseason retirement drama and all the people who said and STILL say Oz "outplayed" Manning this year, I understand Oz' decision.

I recall a different game to close out the 2014 season. Manning left the game with 5 min and change after a short drive that ended with a punt. The Broncos were up 33-14 at that point - not exactly a 31 point lead. The final 2 TDs were scored by the defense (Tony Carter returned a fumble for TD) and Oz (1yd pass to Virgil Green.)

http://espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=400554445

[ShaneFalco]

https://media1.giphy.com/media/13XEXC59E7asI8/giphy.gif

[sneakers]

I bet I could bump an older thread than this

[Hawgdriver]

I bet I could bump an older thread than this

Talk is cheap.

[GEM]

Wonder how Brocky boy feels seeing that a 7th rounder stepped right into his spot and is shining. :D Stupid giraffe looking whiner!

[BroncoJoe]

Wonder how Brocky boy feels seeing that a 7th rounder stepped right into his spot and is shining. :D Stupid giraffe looking whiner!

I'd guess he'd be kicking himself, until he reviews his bank account....

He's still an idiot IMO.

[GEM]

I'd guess he'd be kicking himself, until he reviews his bank account....

He's still an idiot IMO.

**** his bank account. Dumb bitch that he is.

[tripp]

Money is great and all, but when you have to step into a locker room with your team mates and coaches and try to justify why you're worth that MUCH money... especially after FAILING to get into the Patriots side of the field until the 4th quarter, against a 3rd STRING QB. It was a great busine$$ move, not a great career move. Big difference.

[slim]

If a guy truly cares more about money than winning, we are better off without him.

[The Glue Factory]

Money is great and all, but when you have to step into a locker room with your team mates and coaches and try to justify why you're worth that MUCH money... especially after FAILING to get into the Patriots side of the field until the 4th quarter, against a 3rd STRING QB. It was a great busine$$ move, not a great career move. Big difference.

Just a minor point of business. Os was not playing against the Pats* QB.

He merely performed worse against the Pats* defense than the Pats* offense (missing many of it's key playmakers, IIRC) performed against Houston's defense.

[tripp]

Just a minor point of business. Os was not playing against the Pats* QB.

He merely performed worse against the Pats* defense than the Pats* offense (missing many of it's key playmakers, IIRC) performed against Houston's defense.


Fantastic analysis.

Either way, it was a disgraceful performance by Brock Osweiler - who should be embarrassed.

Put the two QB's stats next to each other and look at the facts for a second..

Oz: 24/41 196 yds 0 TDS, 1 INT. Brissett 11/19 103 yds, 0 TDS, 0 INTs, 1 Rushing TD.


One is getting paid 73 Mil.


I get everyone has a bad day sometimes, but how can you not even get into Patriots territory till the 4th Q? Patriots are ranked 17th in total defense.
Clearly difficult for Oz to look good when his defense isn't bailing him out :confused:

[Northman]

Fantastic analysis.

Either way, it was a disgraceful performance by Brock Osweiler - who should be embarrassed.

Put the two QB's stats next to each other and look at the facts for a second..

Oz: 24/41 196 yds 0 TDS, 1 INT. Brissett 11/19 103 yds, 0 TDS, 0 INTs, 1 Rushing TD.


One is getting paid 73 Mil.


I get everyone has a bad day sometimes, but how can you not even get into Patriots territory till the 4th Q? Patriots are ranked 17th in total defense.
Clearly difficult for Oz to look good when his defense isn't bailing him out :confused:


Agreed.

People have to remember that Brock was paid to pay off right away. He was not paid 72 mil to be a "project" in Houston so while its ok for him and the Texans to lose to NE its not really ok to play THAT badly when the expectations are higher for you at this stage. Maybe Brock rebounds and lights it up the rest of the way but to not even be able to compete in probably the biggest game of the year so far is pretty worrisome if you ask me.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Quarterback Brock Osweiler got a little more than he bargained for when he signed with the Houston Texans for four years and $72 million in free agency.

For too long, the Texans relied on defensive end J.J. Watt as their on-field general and primary playmaker. It's now Osweiler's turn to pick up the slack after the all-world defender re-injured his back, according to NFL Network's Ian Rapoport:

Ian Rapoport
✔
@RapSheet

Sources: #Texans star DL JJ Watt has re-injured his back and is expected to be out for an extended period of time. Could be the season

The injury couldn't come at a worse time for Osweiler, who hasn't looked like the franchise-caliber prospect the organization envisioned when it signed him.

In fact, the 6'8" gunslinger is coming off a terrible performance against the New England Patriots. Osweiler completed 24 of 41 passes for only 196 yards and threw one interception. The Arizona State product took full blame for the team's 27-0 loss.

AND


Prior to the Patriots contest, Osweiler didn't exactly set the NFL on fire. Against the Chicago Bears and Kansas City Chiefs, he completed 60.3 percent of his passes for 499 yards and three touchdowns with three interceptions. Overall, the Texans rank 24th in total offense and 27th in passing offense.

full article - http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2666288-jj-watt-injury-adds-to-mounting-pressure-on-brock-osweiler-texans-offense

[Tangerine]

9504

[EastCoastBronco]

What were we offering him before he jumped ship?

[weazel]

probably about what he deserved

[The Glue Factory]

What were we offering him before he jumped ship?

I think in the neighborhood of 15M a year (give or take 1 or 2 M.) But my memory isn't what it used to was.

[weazel]

I think in the neighborhood of 15M a year (give or take 1 or 2 M.) But my memory isn't what it used to was.

that seems like a pretty good deal for a first time starter... BrockLobster!

[The Glue Factory]

that seems like a pretty good deal for a first time starter... BrockLobster!

Unless your scared of shadows.

[EastCoastBronco]

Hard to turn down 71 million any time...especially so if you already have a championship ring on your finger.
I'm not judging him one way or the other.
I know what I would do if someone offered me 71 million dollars to play football...anywhere.
That's Powerball Lottery $$.

[MOtorboat]

I think in the neighborhood of 15M a year (give or take 1 or 2 M.) But my memory isn't what it used to was.

That was still way too much, IMO.

[MOtorboat]

I wouldn't put much stock in a Thursday game on the road across the country against one of the better defensive minds in the game.

He has not been impressive, but I'm not putting much stock in that Thursday night performance.

[pnbronco]

According to Klis he was offered $64 million contract ($16 million per year). I for one am so glad we put our money into Von.

I know it's mean but I had a much bigger smile on my face when I heard that Trevor got AFC O player of the week when Oz had a goose egg in points on national TV.

I don't fault him for taking the money....this is real life and they have to get the best contract available for their family....I understand that. My problem is that he was such a putz to the people that put a ring on his finger and his team mates. Not even trying to come get his ring. Kubes and CO did something right for him to look that good when he played...just show some respect when you move on.

[Northman]

According to Klis he was offered $64 million contract ($16 million per year). I for one am so glad we put our money into Von.

I know it's mean but I had a much bigger smile on my face when I heard that Trevor got AFC O player of the week when Oz had a goose egg in points on national TV.

I don't fault him for taking the money....this is real life and they have to get the best contract available for their family....I understand that. My problem is that he was such a putz to the people that put a ring on his finger and his team mates. Not even trying to come get his ring. Kubes and CO did something right for him to look that good when he played...just show some respect when you move on.


Yes, last thing i heard about 3 or so weeks ago was that Denver had actually offered Brock close to what Houston gave him but Brock was still butthurt about the SD benching. I can honestly say im glad Denver dodged the bullet on that one.

[Simple Jaded]

9504

Mike Hawk is strong.

Btw, someone should tell Shane he spelled Brent's name wrong in the OP.

[Joel]

According to Klis he was offered $64 million contract ($16 million per year). I for one am so glad we put our money into Von.
I hear that; when we were still matching Houstons offers and they kept raising those offers, I was terrified Oz would have the sense to stay on a championship team so we wound up in cap Hell and STILL didn't have a QB worthy of the name. Fortunately...


Yes, last thing i heard about 3 or so weeks ago was that Denver had actually offered Brock close to what Houston gave him but Brock was still butthurt about the SD benching. I can honestly say im glad Denver dodged the bullet on that one.
That's sure what it looked like, and so am I. Except for my home town team being screwed, but until/unless McNair sells them that's pretty much inevitable no matter what. It's sad that a state with 7 million more residents than Florida AND New York has FEWER teams, and BOTH are getting the Jerry Jones treatment.

[Canmore]

Mike Hawk is strong.

Btw, someone should tell Shane he spelled Brent's name wrong in the OP.

Why? It's LC!

[Simple Jaded]

Why? It's LC!

Potheads can be very intelligent with a little help.

[pnbronco]

I just read this today from the Houston Chronicle.....yikes :shocked:

The Texans are averaging just 14 points per game, tying them for 31st in the league.

The head coach is taking over the play calling....could be a really long year. The irony is that Manning had such a tough last year that any pass that Trevor throws that's long and has a spiral on it looks amazing....oh well...be careful what you ask for...:whoknows:

[Northman]

But but but O'Brien's offense opens it up more!



*Snicker*

[ShaneFalco]

January 1. Texans at Titans. Backup-turned-starter Tom Savage took a hit on a quarterback sneak during the first play of the second quarter and was removed for a concussion evaluation. Starter-turned-backup Brock Osweiler entered the game.

Confusion emerged during the second quarter as to whether Savage had been cleared to return to action. At halftime, Savage got the news: He was being shut down for the day.

Per a source with knowledge of the situation, Savage became very upset, knocking things around in the locker room and otherwise making a ruckus about having his status jeopardized by a doctor’s decision to keep him from playing. At or about the same time, coach Bill O’Brien informed Osweiler that he’d be finishing the game.

Osweiler, per the source, reacted negatively, telling O’Brien in the visiting coach’s office at Nissan Stadium in Nashville that he’s only playing Osweiler because O’Brien needs him. [Editor’s note: That’s sort of how football depth charts work.] An argument ensued, voices were raised. At one point, it’s believed that Osweiler got up to walk away and O’Brien threw out an arm to stop him. That prompted Osweiler to act as if he were being “held hostage,” a claim that he would repeat (per the source) in the days after the game.

And that was that for Osweiler in Houston. Following that incident, the team was determined to find a way to move on from him.

Rumors of an incident of some sort had been percolating for weeks. Both O’Brien and Osweiler downplayed talk of a loud argument in the days after the game. Following the hot potato trade that sent Osweiler and a second-round pick to Cleveland, former NFL defensive back Bryant McFadden said in an appearance on 120 Sports that Osweiler and O’Brien had a “physical confrontation that got ugly.”

“It was physical,” McFadden said. “It was physical. The players and coaches had to restrain O’Brien and Brock.”



http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/03/12/week-17-altercation-was-last-straw-for-texans-and-osweiler/

[ShaneFalco]

:eek:

[Poet]

He believes he is entitled to having the starting job...

Man...he is a millionaire child.

[ShaneFalco]

remember when Brock flipped out about Manning going back into the game in the 4th with the lead? and didnt find his helmet in time?

I view that entirely different now.

here it is.

https://fansrule.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/brock.gif

[ShaneFalco]

I wasnt really paying attention when Cutler was playing for Broncos, did he do anything like that?

[FanInAZ]

remember when Brock flipped out about Manning going back into the game in the 4th with the lead? and didnt find his helmet in time?

I view that entirely different now.

here it is.

https://fansrule.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/brock.gif

That wasn’t just a lead, it was an insurmountable lead. It was the kind of garbage time situation that bench players look forward so they can get their chance to show what they can do. So I wouldn't say he flipped out, but that he was frustrated because he thought he was finally going to get his chance. Any player that doesn’t have some sort of reaction in that situation has no competitive drive, and therefore has no business being in the NFL.

[FanInAZ]

I wasnt really paying attention when Cutler was playing for Broncos, did he do anything like that?

Cutler got his feeling hurt when he found out that McD was trying to trade him for Matt Cassel. After it fell through, he demanded to be traded & that so he was sent to the Bears for Kyle Orton.

[Simple Jaded]

Something tells me this is just as much O'Brien as Butthurt Brent, O'Brien is a hothead...from "The P*triot Way" no less.

Star QB gets benched, backup gets injured and team goes back to Star QB and said Star QB is still butthurt and rubs HC's nose in it and HC doesn't take kindly.

#FTB went 6 months without talking to Doogie.

#FTB got into sideline shouting match with O'Brien while in *NE.

Butthurt Brent gets into confrontation with O'Brien during season.

There's a pattern here and it's not Butthurt Brent, who handled himself with class while in Denver.

[Joel]

Cutler got his feeling hurt when he found out that McD was trying to trade him for Matt Cassel. After it fell through, he demanded to be traded & that so he was sent to the Bears for Kyle Orton.
*sigh* No (and once again,) Cutler "got his feelings hurt" when he went to McDumbass like a MAN and ASKED if he was being shopped, McDumbass denied it, then Cutler got the confirmation in his morning paper a few days later. Anyone who leaves their promising career in the hands of anyone proven dishonest is an idiot.

Don't lie to your employees faces yet expect them to stick around for you to backstab s'more; pretty straightforward (unlike McDumbass.)

[Rick]

Cutler should have heard from it first from McD before the papers, but in no way to I believe that everytime a coach checks about trading a player that he should inform the player, even if the player asks.

[UnderArmour]

I'd take back Cutler or Brock... :behindsofa:

Honestly though, I would not be surprised to see Brock resurface in Chicago or San Fransisco. Whoever signs him (assuming Cleveland cuts him) is going to be able to sign him to a 1 year minimum contract due to offset language. If Brock wanted to come back here, he would have to swallow a lot of crow, and reach out to the team when he became a free agent. I just don't see him phoning Elway and apologizing. Guy also has some serious flaws in his game that need to be worked on, and going to Houston definitely set back his development between the classless fair-weather fans and Bill O' being a system guy.

[Freyaka]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/03/12/week-17-altercation-was-last-straw-for-texans-and-osweiler/

God, what a mental case...We dodged a freaking bullet with this nut job.

[Freyaka]

remember when Brock flipped out about Manning going back into the game in the 4th with the lead? and didnt find his helmet in time?

I view that entirely different now.

here it is.

https://fansrule.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/brock.gif

Lets be fair on that one though...Zero reason for Manning to be going out there with a 31 freaking point lead.

[Freyaka]

I wasnt really paying attention when Cutler was playing for Broncos, did he do anything like that?

He had his fair share of tantrums yes...Maybe not that bad, but Cutler was an entitled whiner as well.

[turftoad]

He had his fair share of tantrums yes...Maybe not that bad, but Cutler was an entitled whiner as well.

I don't recall him whining until McDoosh tried to trade him.

[MOtorboat]

I don't recall him whining until McDoosh tried to trade him.

He started whining before McDaniels was hired.

[GEM]

Lets be fair on that one though...Zero reason for Manning to be going out there with a 31 freaking point lead.

If you want in, be ready. Seasoned vet vs. rookie.

[GEM]

He started whining before McDaniels was hired.

He's whined everywhere he's been. Comes off as an entitled douchenozzle with that time of the month temper tantrums.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

He's whined everywhere he's been. Comes off as an entitled douchenozzle with that time of the month temper tantrums.

He's defining moment (for me) was in the last game he played against SD when he turned and fired what was suppose to be a screen pass to Eddie Royal and the ball sailed 4-5 feet over Eddie's head. Cutty then screamed at Eddie in front of everyone.

I was done with Cutler at that point. I'd seen enough of his childish behavior.

[GEM]

He's defining moment (for me) was in the last game he played against SD when he turned and fired what was suppose to be a screen pass to Eddie Royal and the ball sailed 4-5 feet over Eddie's head. Cutty then screamed at Eddie in front of everyone.

I was done with Cutler at that point. I'd seen enough of his childish behavior.

Rocket arm, nothing between the ears and color blind (passing to the other team :) )

[Hawgdriver]

Lets be fair on that one though...Zero reason for Manning to be going out there with a 31 freaking point lead.

Unless Manning wanted to send a message to a PAB.

[Poet]

Let him whine in Denver. I want to win some games. He's a better QB than TS.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Let him whine in Denver. I want to win some games. He's a better QB than TS.

The team won't like him and won't win the division

[Poet]

The team won't like him and won't win the division

Better odds with a better QB. The team liking TS didn't help TS not shit the bed in the final quarter of the season. Nor did it help him have more than two good games. Nor did it help him deliver deep sideline throws, or deep passes.

People like winning.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Better odds with a better QB. The team liking TS didn't help TS not shit the bed in the final quarter of the season. Nor did it help him have more than two good games. Nor did it help him deliver deep sideline throws, or deep passes.

People like winning.

Teams that hate their QB don't win, and he has ten years of track record to prove it.

[Poet]

Teams that hate their QB don't win, and he has ten years of track record to prove it.

Multiple years the Bears fell out of the playoff race when he got hurt and missed time. If he comes here and we're winning --seriously think about how big of an upgrade a real QB would be for us and how it would impact the offense-- he's going to be well liked my brother. TS feels like he's the little brother of a real QB who is getting a turn to play QB.

[GEM]

Better odds with a better QB. The team liking TS didn't help TS not shit the bed in the final quarter of the season. Nor did it help him have more than two good games. Nor did it help him deliver deep sideline throws, or deep passes.

People like winning.

Denver's W-L records while Cutler was here:

2006 9-7 and 7 of those wins belonged to Plummer
2007 7-9
2008 8-8

He has a better arm than TS for sure, but he's a cancer to a team. Plus, he's a 6.

[Poet]

In those years the defense historically awful under Slowik, though. He's more mobile than TS, is probably more durable than TS -if TS couldn't last under last years line he would have died on the worse CHI lines-, and is smarter than TS.

GEM, let me dream of not having TS as our starter. Just let me have this.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

In those years the defense historically awful under Slowik, though. He's more mobile than TS, is probably more durable than TS -if TS couldn't last under last years line he would have died on the worse CHI lines-, and is smarter than TS.

GEM, let me dream of not having TS as our starter. Just let me have this.

Here's a compromise, dream of Tony.

[Poet]

Here's a compromise, dream of Tony.

Oh sweet sweet Tony.

[GEM]

In those years the defense historically awful under Slowik, though. He's more mobile than TS, is probably more durable than TS -if TS couldn't last under last years line he would have died on the worse CHI lines-, and is smarter than TS.

GEM, let me dream of not having TS as our starter. Just let me have this.

You know I'm not a big fan of TS, but I'd rather gouge my eyes out, rinse them in gasoline and Molotov Dove Valley than see that little douchenozzle in a Broncos jersey again.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

You know I'm not a big fan of TS, but I'd rather gouge my eyes out, rinse them in gasoline and Molotov Dove Valley than see that little douchenozzle in a Broncos jersey again.

:lol: :laugh:

[Poet]

You know I'm not a big fan of TS, but I'd rather gouge my eyes out, rinse them in gasoline and Molotov Dove Valley than see that little douchenozzle in a Broncos jersey again.

Can't a man change? To be honest, I would rather burn my knee caps off and use them as salad forks than watch TS consistently suck.

[GEM]

Can't a man change? To be honest, I would rather burn my knee caps off and use them as salad forks than watch TS consistently suck.

The more likely of the two is that your knee caps are spinach skewers. :D

[Poet]

The more likely of the two is that your knee caps are spinach skewers. :D

Someone's goin' have to rebuild me!

#whywouldIdothis?
#Iain'tgotnolegs

[Freyaka]

Better odds with a better QB. The team liking TS didn't help TS not shit the bed in the final quarter of the season. Nor did it help him have more than two good games. Nor did it help him deliver deep sideline throws, or deep passes.

People like winning.

Man...When 9-7 is "shitting the bed" we've become a bit of an entitled fanbase. You want to talk "shitting the bed" talk to the Chargers.

[Poet]

Man...When 9-7 is "shitting the bed" we've become a bit of an entitled fanbase. You want to talk "shitting the bed" talk to the Chargers.

He had very little to do with that record. Although the primary contributor, the defense, didn't get a lot of help from the offense.

[Freyaka]

He had very little to do with that record. Although the primary contributor, the defense, didn't get a lot of help from the offense.

Still gotta score points and we scored enough to win 9 of them. Sure, the defense did their part to, but if you are going to take that route then you can't really give Manning much credit at all for our Superbowl win because he was worse than TS was by a large margin.

[Poet]

Still gotta score points and we scored enough to win 9 of them. Sure, the defense did their part to, but if you are going to take that route then you can't really give Manning much credit at all for our Superbowl win because he was worse than TS was by a large margin.

Yeah but if the defense is playing well you don't have to score many points...and in many games, especially early on in the season, the defense and ST were scoring points. Dilfer was good enough to win a SB with the god-tier Ravens defense, but he wasn't a good QB.

Look man, we're not going to change one another's mind...

[Freyaka]

Yeah but if the defense is playing well you don't have to score many points...and in many games, especially early on in the season, the defense and ST were scoring points. Dilfer was good enough to win a SB with the god-tier Ravens defense, but he wasn't a good QB.

Look man, we're not going to change one another's mind...

Hey...gotta poke the bear every now and then to keep things interesting around here during the boring offseason.

[Poet]

Hey...gotta poke the bear every now and then to keep things interesting around here during the boring offseason.

Sometimes I was a dick to you. I'm sorry.

[Freyaka]

Sometimes I was a dick to you. I'm sorry.

I think we both had our moments of dick moves :D

[Poet]

I think we both had our moments of dick moves :D

Be my friend?

[BroncoJoe]

I don't get the love for Brock. F him. We offered him the keys to the Broncos' kingdom, and he basically said F-you. I'm going to Houston.

I hope he dies a horrible death. Not really, but I wouldn't shed a tear.

[Poet]

He left us for the Texans. He's basically the Joel of QB's. ;)

[ShaneFalco]

You know I'm not a big fan of TS, but I'd rather gouge my eyes out, rinse them in gasoline and Molotov Dove Valley than see that little douchenozzle in a Broncos jersey again.

i would go back to rooting for the rams, and i hate the rams.

[Poet]

i would go back to rooting for the rams, and i hate the rams.

Weird.

[BroncoJoe]

He left us for the Texans. He's basically the Joel of QB's. ;)

I believe my post deserves a High Five from you.

[ShaneFalco]

Weird.

no its not.

Cutler is like Dormamu. He is all that is evil. (yes i just watched Dr Strange)

[Poet]

I believe my post deserves a High Five from you.

Done.

[BroncoJoe]

Done.

Now, admit your love for Siemian.

[Poet]

Now, admit your love for Siemian.

I think he's an overrated game manager with horrible skills and is probably pretty dumb.

[ShaneFalco]

He is going to get in skittles commercials after he declines another pro bowl invite this year, because he is going for his 2nd SB ring.

[BroncoJoe]

I think he's an overrated game manager with horrible skills and is probably pretty dumb.

You're pretty dumb!

[Poet]

You're pretty dumb!

I think highly of me. You think lowly of me. The truth...might be in the middle...it might side with you...it might side with me...

None of this negates the fact that TS is a garbage prospect and was given the benefit of the doubt by fans still riding high on SB glory. He was horrible at the end of the year. He literally lost us games.

[ShaneFalco]

I think highly of me. You think lowly of me. The truth...might be in the middle...it might side with you...it might side with me...

None of this negates the fact that TS is a garbage prospect and was given the benefit of the doubt by fans still riding high on SB glory. He was horrible at the end of the year. He literally lost us games.
sorry that was Okung and Stephenson with holding penalties.

[BroncoJoe]

I think highly of me. You think lowly of me. The truth...might be in the middle...it might side with you...it might side with me...

None of this negates the fact that TS is a garbage prospect and was given the benefit of the doubt by fans still riding high on SB glory. He was horrible at the end of the year. He literally lost us games.

I bet you're really good at limbo.

Your assessment is dismissed. Overruled. Discounted. Discharged. Irrational.

[Poet]

sorry that was Okung and Stephenson with holding penalties.

Rewatch those games, man.

The defense played it's ass off against NE for example. TS squandered points and threw that awful pick six.

That's ONE example.

[Poet]

I bet you're really good at limbo.

Your assessment is dismissed. Overruled. Discounted. Discharged. Irrational.

You never make any actual arguments - you just offer conclusions. It sometimes bums me out, man.

[chazoe60]

The entire offense was garbage last year. I had times of serious doubt in one young Mr. Siemien but by the end of the season I was pretty encouraged by his production especially considering his low cost and low expectations. There are some things he does extremely well, he is, by order of magnitude smarter than Paxton Lynch. I like his accuracy. I like his athleticism. He has some obvious weaknesses (he was a seventh round pick after all and a 2nd year pro) he needs to open it up a little especially on 3rd down and I hope the injury woes are more a function of our bad OL play than a trait of TS himself.

I'm okay going into next season with TS as our presumptive starter.

[Poet]

How could you be encouraged when he literally was one of the worst QB's in the league at the end of the year? He actually got worse. The expectations he had make him more 'desirable' in the sense that some of us expected him to throw 45 picks. Just because he wasn't Tim Tebow level shit doesn't mean he was even average. And he wasn't average.

The line sucked - this is beyond dispute. Lord knows he did nothing to help with the line. He didn't diagnose plays, he didn't improve on getting rid of the ball. He couldn't read defenses and that was made clear when teams switched to coverage against us after the line play did improve.

[chazoe60]

How could you be encouraged when he literally was one of the worst QB's in the league at the end of the year? He actually got worse. The expectations he had make him more 'desirable' in the sense that some of us expected him to throw 45 picks. Just because he wasn't Tim Tebow level shit doesn't mean he was even average. And he wasn't average.

The line sucked - this is beyond dispute. Lord knows he did nothing to help with the line. He didn't diagnose plays, he didn't improve on getting rid of the ball. He couldn't read defenses and that was made clear when teams switched to coverage against us after the line play did improve.

I think you're being overly harsh.

[Rick]

TS is going to have a decently long career but he will always be "just a guy". He will always be a guy that teams sign as a capable starter to either be a bridge while their franchise guy develops or simply because there isn't anyone else.

He will be a journeyman.

Nothing wrong with a career like that, but the sooner Lynch develops or we find "the guy" the better.

[Freyaka]

Be my friend?

Only if there are benefits...if not, seems like a deal breaker

[Poet]

I think you're being overly harsh.

If you go through his game logs, you're going to find a lot of bad games. When I tell you that he got a quarter of his stats in a single game -Cincinnati- and tell you that he was pathetic at the end of the year, I'm spot on.

When I tell you that his deep ball accuracy (known as the easier throws in the league) and his sideline throws were ass, I'm accurate, unlike him.

What are the standards? I think they should be higher than producing in the 30th most in the league for a second year player. And when you make a list of the things that he does well, it's short.

When you make a list of the promise and potential that he flashed, it's short.

[Poet]

Only if there are benefits...if not, seems like a deal breaker

Deal.

[chazoe60]

Tom Brady's second year stats= amazingly similar to TS
Andrew Luck's career rating and YPP=to TS's last season
Ben Roethlisberger's second year in the NFL=one fewer TD, fewer yards and one fewer INT than TS last season
Drew Brees was worse than TS his second year in the NFL and downright terrible his third year.
Hell, Aaaaaaaron Rodgers was pretty much invisible in sophomore season.;)

My point is that I saw enough out of TS to believe he deserves as much of a shot as Lynch if not more so if some of the stories of Lynch's nonchalance are true.

[Poet]

Tom Brady's second year stats= amazingly similar to TS
Andrew Luck's career rating and YPP=to TS's last season
Ben Roethlisberger's second year in the NFL=one fewer TD, fewer yards and one fewer INT than TS last season
Drew Brees was worse than TS his second year in the NFL and downright terrible his third year.
Hell, Aaaaaaaron Rodgers was pretty much invisible in sophomore season.;)

My point is that I saw enough out of TS to believe he deserves as much of a shot as Lynch if not more so if some of the stories of Lynch's nonchalance are true.

Different rules, Chaz. It's not a valid comparison, and TS had better weapons to throw to.

Luck was asked to carry an offense, why not yards or TD's?

Big Ben played under different rules, too. DT and ES > Hines Ward and Antwaan Randle El. Big Ben also threw the ball like 18 times a game. That's not good for your argument, either.

Drew Brees played on some horrible SD teams, with less forgiving rules.

Aaaaaaaaron Rodgers, sure. You have one.

The argument doesn't pass the mustard.

At least Lynch has talent. It's really hard to win without talent. And if your QB is lacking in ability, you need a great defense to win a SB. How many more years do we have before the defense isn't great?

[chazoe60]

Different rules, Chaz. It's not a valid comparison, and TS had better weapons to throw to.

Luck was asked to carry an offense, why not yards or TD's?

Big Ben played under different rules, too. DT and ES > Hines Ward and Antwaan Randle El. Big Ben also threw the ball like 18 times a game. That's not good for your argument, either.

Drew Brees played on some horrible SD teams, with less forgiving rules.

Aaaaaaaaron Rodgers, sure. You have one.

The argument doesn't pass the mustard.

At least Lynch has talent. It's really hard to win without talent. And if your QB is lacking in ability, you need a great defense to win a SB. How many more years do we have before the defense isn't great?

It's "pass muster" not "pass mustard". You can thank me later because it's me, a dumb hillbilly correcting you and not some fancy lawyer at a job interview.

[ShaneFalco]

Tom Brady's second year stats= amazingly similar to TS
Andrew Luck's career rating and YPP=to TS's last season
Ben Roethlisberger's second year in the NFL=one fewer TD, fewer yards and one fewer INT than TS last season
Drew Brees was worse than TS his second year in the NFL and downright terrible his third year.
Hell, Aaaaaaaron Rodgers was pretty much invisible in sophomore season.;)

My point is that I saw enough out of TS to believe he deserves as much of a shot as Lynch if not more so if some of the stories of Lynch's nonchalance are true.

word

[Poet]

It's "pass muster" not "pass mustard". You can thank me later because it's me, a dumb hillbilly correcting you and not some fancy lawyer at a job interview.

I'm fat - it's mustard.

[chazoe60]

I'm fat - it's mustard.

I can see the job interview now

King- if you hire me we'll definitely pass the mustard

Fancy lawyer- I think you mean pass muster

King - no fancy lawyer man with pennies in your shoes I mean pass the mustard I'm hungry and I don't go anywhere without a hotdog (pulls hot dog out of poorly fitting pinstriped suit jacket pocket)

Fancy lawyer- Bold move, bold indeed. You're going places. You're hired, how does 250k and a company Mercedes sound?

King- like a starting point. Now where's my mustard.

[Poet]

I'll have a good life.

[chazoe60]

Don't get me wrong by the way, if we land Romo I'd be stoked for that too. But I'm not freaking out if we go into next season with TS as the guy.

What I'm most upset about is Lynch not looking at all like a competent NFL starter. Maybe he will someday but he sure didn't at all last year and the stories of his work ethic are disheartening.

[Poet]

Chaz, if TS is the starter, I believe the defense will be good enough for him to help us win. It's just that I think his ceiling, is low.

PL looked like a raw guy to me last year. If he is lazy, **** him. I'll take the guy who works.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Our defense is gonna get back to curb stomping people .

[Poet]

Our defense is gonna get back to curb stomping people .

If teams can't just automatically run on us and they have to throw more we're going to start hurting people.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

If teams can't just automatically run on us and they have to throw more we're going to start hurting people.

Exactly, and the two new semi's we'll have parked on the defensive line will go a long way to ensuring that.

[Poet]

Exactly, and the two new semi's we'll have parked on the defensive line will go a long way to ensuring that.

Well, the semi's aren't worldbeaters. But they should be an upgrade over what we had. I'm trying to temper my expectations a bit, IDK.

God if we could land Richardson, Poe, or someone like that I'd smile for two straight minutes.

[Hawgdriver]

I think he's an overrated game manager with horrible skills and is probably pretty dumb.

Ugh. You made me bite.

So he was accepted into Harvard and he's pretty dumb...where does that put you, VK?

[Poet]

Ugh. You made me bite.

So he was accepted into Harvard and he's pretty dumb...where does that put you, VK?

I was talking about him on the football field. Your lacking reading comprehension is not my burden to hold, Hawg.

I forgive you.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Well, the semi's aren't worldbeaters. But they should be an upgrade over what we had. I'm trying to temper my expectations a bit, IDK.

God if we could land Richardson, Poe, or someone like that I'd smile for two straight minutes.

They might not pressure the QB, but we don't need them to. We have 3 or 4 other guys who will do that. They will go a long way to improving the run D.

Now I hope we draft Peppers in the first..

[Poet]

Peppers go well with mustard.

[Hawgdriver]

I was talking about him on the football field. Your lacking reading comprehension is not my burden to hold, Hawg.

I forgive you.

Fine.

[Poet]

Fine.

Don't get all short with me.

[chazoe60]

Don't get all short with me.

Would have been so much better if you were quoting MO

[Hawgdriver]

Don't get all short with me.

...

[Poet]

...

Now you're just being difficult.

[Hawgdriver]

Now you're just being difficult.

#...

[Poet]

#...

Now you're flirting with me.

[Joel]

He left us for the Texans. He's basically the Joel of QB's. ;)
How do you figure? The Oilers (or rather, Dud Adams) left ME, so I needed a team and embraced the Broncos. What Oz did is pretty much the exact opposite.

[ShaneFalco]

How do you figure? The Oilers (or rather, Dud Adams) left ME, so I needed a team and embraced the Broncos. What Oz did is pretty much the exact opposite.

after all that shit you gave me about the rams....

[Joel]

after all that shit you gave me about the rams....
Houston didn't steal someone elses team when the Oilers left. ;) Seriously what did you expect? The Rams only came to St. Louis because ya'll built them the shiny new stadium they wanted; it didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that when it got old and they wanted another new one they'd do exactly the same thing they (and the Cardinals) did the last time. If you want your hometown team back, do what L.A. did: Call the Cardinals and tell them you're building them a new stadium.

[ShaneFalco]

Houston didn't steal someone elses team when the Oilers left. ;) Seriously what did you expect? The Rams only came to St. Louis because ya'll built them the shiny new stadium they wanted; it didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that when it got old and they wanted another new one they'd do exactly the same thing they (and the Cardinals) did the last time. If you want your hometown team back, do what L.A. did: Call the Cardinals and tell them you're building them a new stadium.

http://becomingpeculiar.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/confessions-of-a-hypocrite-b.jpg

[Joel]

What are you confessing, being a Cardinals fan?

[ShaneFalco]

cant believe this mother****** back on the team

he was getting drunk eating pizza in Arizona, instead of going to Manning retirement.

[Freyaka]

cant believe this mother****** back on the team

he was getting drunk eating pizza in Arizona, instead of going to the retirement.

Man it's hilarious how much a backup QB bothers you...

Who is bitter again?

[ShaneFalco]

Theres literally not a worse way I could've imagined for this situation to have been managed.

[Freyaka]

10931

Must not have a very active imagination. There are hundreds of worse situations that could have happened here.

[Freyaka]

We are paying him $775,000 to be a backup. He won't see the field barring injury and he's already shown he can come in and win a few games in this offense. I wouldn't trust him to run the offense for more than a few games, but there are hundreds of worse situations that would have been possible here.

[ShaneFalco]

we could have just signed cutler.

Same douche bag, more arm talent.

[BroncoWave]

Bitter Shane

[Cugel]

How do you figure? The Oilers (or rather, Dud Adams) left ME, so I needed a team and embraced the Broncos. What Oz did is pretty much the exact opposite.

YOu pretty much didn't have much choice though did you? I mean if you loved the Oilers you hated the Cowboys. That is a given. So you couldn't transfer your loyalty to them. And screw the team if it abandons your city!

That always struck me as the most pathetic sort of feeble fan! The ones that still are loyal to the team years after they left town. Pathetic losers! Your ex-wife is not coming back! She's moving to Las Vegas with some rich dude she met. Or in your case, Tennessee to become the Tennessee Tuxedos which never made any sense to me. Going from Houston to Tennessee is not actually an upward move. I would never live in Houston, but that goes double for Tennessee.

[Joel]

YOu pretty much didn't have much choice though did you? I mean if you loved the Oilers you hated the Cowboys. That is a given. So you couldn't transfer your loyalty to them. And screw the team if it abandons your city!
That's actually not a given; my dad was a Cowboys fan from Day One, but never had anything against the Oilers (I think what he mainly felt was pity, with perhaps a tinge of embarrassment as a Houstonian.) And I was onboard too, just not as my first choice. The real problem is that it's really hard to like Jerry Jones' team, ESPECIALLY for fans of Tom Landrys team, because they're night and day.


That always struck me as the most pathetic sort of feeble fan! The ones that still are loyal to the team years after they left town. Pathetic losers! Your ex-wife is not coming back! She's moving to Las Vegas with some rich dude she met. Or in your case, Tennessee to become the Tennessee Tuxedos which never made any sense to me. Going from Houston to Tennessee is not actually an upward move. I would never live in Houston, but that goes double for Tennessee.
More like the flip side of that analogy: "He only beats me because he loves me SO MUCH!" Yeah, OK; I wanna feel bad for you, but you're so :censored:ing stupid it's hard.

[Shazam!]

Do you live in TX?

[Joel]

Do you live in TX?
Born and raised.

[Cugel]

That's actually not a given; my dad was a Cowboys fan from Day One, but never had anything against the Oilers (I think what he mainly felt was pity, with perhaps a tinge of embarrassment as a Houstonian.) And I was onboard too, just not as my first choice. The real problem is that it's really hard to like Jerry Jones' team, ESPECIALLY for fans of Tom Landrys team, because they're night and day.

More like the flip side of that analogy: "He only beats me because he loves me SO MUCH!" Yeah, OK; I wanna feel bad for you, but you're so :censored:ing stupid it's hard.

In NY you either love the Giants or the Jets. If you like one you hate the other and like to talk trash to your friends who follow them. I grew up a Giants fan because we lived in CT & my dad had tickets to games. So, naturally I loathed the Jets and today as a Broncos fan I merely pity them because their franchise is so pitiful.

It wasn't until the Broncos - Cowboys Super Bowl that I became a Broncos fan.
10934
"Broncos and Raiders fans confront each other prior to the Broncos first super bowl in 1978."

[Joel]

In NY you either love the Giants or the Jets. If you like one you hate the other and like to talk trash to your friends who follow them. I grew up a Giants fan because we lived in CT & my dad had tickets to games. So, naturally I loathed the Jets and today as a Broncos fan I merely pity them because their franchise is so pitiful.
Interesting comparison, since the Giants and Cowboys have been far more successful than the Jets or Oilers (at least the Jets did manage to win ONE SB; the best Houston ever did was winning the first two AFL Championships, then losing the threepeat to the Chiefs in DOT.) Plus there's some rivalry between Cowtown and Oiltown.

There's also the Governors Cup (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governor%27s_Cup_(Texas)) game, which began with the Oilers and Cowboys scheduling their final preseason game against each other (the 1994 Mexico City game still holds the NFL attendance record of 112,376. The game has had a few hiatuses, after Bum and Earl got traded to the Saints and the cup mysteriously disappeared until found across the street from Houston city hall about the time Glanville and Moon made the Oilers semi-respectable again, and again when Adams took the team and left town (which anyone familiar with TX history knows is a step in the wrong direction: Sam Houston and Davy Crockett came from TN to TX, not the reverse.) It resumed with the creation of the Texans though, and has been played (sometimes even during the regular season) all but four years since, or five now, since last weeks meeting was canceled due to Harvey.

My experience has been that the Oilers (and now Texans) just aren't close enough to the Cowboys and don't play them often enough to support any truly fierce rivalry. It's not quite the same as two cross-conference teams sharing not only the same state, but the same city and even STADIUM. The only time I really noticed a division was when the Oilers and Cowboys were playing at the same time, so I had unwinnable arguments with my dad about which game to watch on TV (after we left Houston anyway; until then, blackout rules and Adams' inability to sell out the Dome despite his annual demand for more seats meant I couldn't watch most home games anyway unless I attended in person.)


It wasn't until the Broncos - Cowboys Super Bowl that I became a Broncos fan.
Don't say that too loudly or someone might try to revoke your Fan Card. ;)

[Cugel]

Don't say that too loudly or someone might try to revoke your Fan Card.

Oh, snap! Well, it was fun while it lasted. And it lasted since the 1978 AFC Championship Game. That Super Bowl was a bummer though. All that hype and buildup and then . . . 27-10. It still leaves me unhappy to think about it. I was in a bar in New Hampshire and there were a bunch of horrible Cowboys fans whooping it up. I don't remember much about the second half.

[slim]

Born and raised.

I thought you were in Europe somewhere???

[Joel]

I thought you were in Europe somewhere???
Was, but moved back right before our (most recent) championship. Been trying to get the wife a visa since, but we make legal immigration too expensive, time consuming and complex, while doing just the opposite with illegal immigration, then wonder why everyone who lacks a US relative sneaks in rather than wait in line 5-10 years and pay us thousands of dollars. Hopefully I'll have them by Christmas, else I'll have spent more of my daughters life away from her than with her.

[NightTerror218]

Was, but moved back right before our (most recent) championship. Been trying to get the wife a visa since, but we make legal immigration too expensive, time consuming and complex, while doing just the opposite with illegal immigration, then wonder why everyone who lacks a US relative sneaks in rather than wait in line 5-10 years and pay us thousands of dollars. Hopefully I'll have them by Christmas, else I'll have spent more of my daughters life away from her than with her.

Which is f'ed up. That sucks.

[Joel]

Which is f'ed up. That sucks.
The worst, IMHO (and since long before I knew my wife) is immigration "reform" invariably divides into the usual suspects screaming, "CLOSE THE BORDERS!eleven" at others screaming, "OPEN THE BORDERS!eleven" as if either side of that false dichotomy made sense. It's possible and preferable to make it easier for decent people and harder for indecent ones. But that serves no partisan agenda, and most folks no longer care about the country, only whether "we" or "they" are "winning." So we hang an "Honest People Need Not Apply" sign on the border, and a generation later wonder why we've become a nation of criminals (Answer: They're the only ones welcome.)