List of free agent Quarterbacks - What is plan B if Osweiler doesn't sign?

[Tned]

Ok, here's a list of the free agent QBs. If Elway can't resign Osweiler, what is plan B? Which of these QBs do you think Elway will go after and do you think can lead the Broncos back to the SB?

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/quarterback/

Fitzpatrick?
One of the Matt's (Cassell, Flynn, Moore, Hasselback or Schaub)?
Vick?
Luke McCown?
Yates, Clausen, or Keenum?
Brandon Weeden?
Drew Stanton or Chase Daniel?

The rest of the list is at the link above, but it isn't exactly an all star cast.

So, what do you think Plan B will be. Can't go with just Siemian along with a drafted rookie, can we?

[Ravage!!!]

I think my stomach turned over reading that list.

[FanInAZ]

Ok, here's a list of the free agent QBs. If Elway can't resign Osweiler, what is plan B? Which of these QBs do you think Elway will go after and do you think can lead the Broncos back to the SB?

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/quarterback/

Fitzpatrick?
One of the Matt's (Cassell, Flynn, Moore, Hasselback or Schaub)?
Vick?
Luke McCown?
Yates, Clausen, or Keenum?
Brandon Weeden?
Drew Stanton or Chase Daniel?

The rest of the list is at the link above, but it isn't exactly an all star cast.

So, what do you think Plan B will be. Can't go with just Siemian along with a drafted rookie, can we?

Vick is done, any GM that signs him should be fired.

[Joel]

Gotta think the smart money there would be on the ONLY QBs Kubiak's ever won a playoff game with as HC—and probably not the one that got himself AND Kubiak fired. That's not a trivia question, but if the answer's still unclear: Yates; if he was good enough to get to the Divisional round as a 5th round rookie with less starts than Oz, he's good enough to start his 6th season until/unless we find someone better, and won't break the bank.

On that note: GIVEN the sorry list of available alternatives, would Siemian and a rookie be so much worse? At least there's an outside chance the rookie might turn out to be our long term answer when there's little chance any of the FAs would, and the rookie would cost far less.

Don't rule out Keenum though: It was a Texans game his rookie year where commentators said Kubiak really liked the guy (whose University of Houston career gave Kubiak a front row seat) and wanted to draft him, but McNair wouldn't even let him do it with a 7th round pick, so Kubiak crossed his fingers no one else would draft him, then immediately snapped him up once he hit the FA market. Looks like that was a good investment, even if it didn't pay off for the guy who made it.

So if we lose Oz, I'd expect Yates or Keenum to be the guy: They'd have Kubiaks system down by Opening Day, wouldn't tie up tons of cap space and could probably hold down the fort until/unless we found a better longer option. I can't believe Kubiak would be foolish enough to willingly tie the albatross that is Schaub around his neck again: If he couldn't reach the AFCCG with the Texans stacked line, RB and WR corps and Wades D in 2012, he NEVER WILL.

[Timmy!]

Oz will be the QB.

[Ravage!!!]

Keenum is a RFA, and STUNK. Yates is horrible. I don't know why the fans think Siemian would have any consideration for the starting job?

[Tned]

I think my stomach turned over reading that list.

Yea, mine too. I knew Fitzpatrick was out there and it was lean after that, but then when I looked, it's worse than I thought. It's not like you expect their to be elite QBs on the sideline, but there isn't even a whole lot of serviceable veterans as many years there are. Even if we believe that Kubiak/Elway just wants a QB that can support the running game, not turn the ball over and let the defense (that will likely be nowhere near as good as last year), there aren't a whole lot of candidates for that.

[Ravage!!!]

Yea, mine too. I knew Fitzpatrick was out there and it was lean after that, but then when I looked, it's worse than I thought. It's not like you expect their to be elite QBs on the sideline, but there isn't even a whole lot of serviceable veterans as many years there are. Even if we believe that Kubiak/Elway just wants a QB that can support the running game, not turn the ball over and let the defense (that will likely be nowhere near as good as last year), there aren't a whole lot of candidates for that.

Fitz was the ONLY one on the list that I can even visualize as a placeholder, at all. No wonder QBs like Oz are holding out for more money.

[Tned]

Fitz was the ONLY one on the list that I can even visualize as a placeholder, at all. No wonder QBs like Oz are holding out for more money.

Yep, there were five potentially solid or better QBs in Cousins, Foles, Bradford, Fitzpatrick and Osweiler. Three are off the market, which leaves Fitzpatrick, a guy that can make some plays with his arm and feet, in between bonehead mistakes and Osweiler, who is relatively young and "might" have a high upside.

The Broncos are SB champions, and might have to defend with a 2nd year QB with zero starts or someone like TJ Yates. Wow.

[Cugel]

I think my stomach turned over reading that list.

I threw up in my mouth a little bit. It might be a bit worse if they actually signed any of those stiffs.

Probably the best option would be to trade for Colin Kaepernick and hope for the best. They might not be able to swing a trade for him. He might not be any good if they did. He would probably want more money than Brock Osweiler.

In short, all the options other than Osweiler come down to a choice between:

1) horrible,
2) worse
3) just-shoot-me-now.

Drafting a QB might be a good idea - so that they have somebody ready for the 2018 season, but it won't be of much help now.

[Ziggy]

This D can win with nearly any QB. RG3 or Kap would both bring the rushing element to the position that we currently lack. Both have the potential to be pro bowlers in the right system with the right coaching. If Brock goes, bring in one of those two boom or bust guys. Sounds crazy, but this team proved it needs little to no offensive support. It's the perfect team to take a chance on either of those two.

[Cugel]

Yep, there were five potentially solid or better QBs in Cousins, Foles, Bradford, Fitzpatrick and Osweiler. Three are off the market, which leaves Fitzpatrick, a guy that can make some plays with his arm and feet, in between bonehead mistakes and Osweiler, who is relatively young and "might" have a high upside.

The Broncos are SB champions, and might have to defend with a 2nd year QB with zero starts or someone like TJ Yates. Wow.

It is widely expected that the Jets will not let Fitzpatrick get away for much the same reason that the Broncos are desperate to re-sign Brock Osweiler. They might have to over-pay for him of course.

In fact, if Osweiler walks, and they can't manage a trade for Kaepernick, then Fitz becomes their best option. He is 33 though and would last maybe another 2 or 3 years at best, so they'd immediately need to draft another QB.

Although "best" in this context is highly relative.

[Tned]

This is Jim Nantz, bringing you the opening day matchup between the defending SB champions, Denver Broncos, against the team they beat in the Super Bowl, the Carolina Panthers. Carolina is led by 2015 MVP Cam Newton who had an amazing '15 season and playoff run, but much to prove after a dissapointing performance in the Super Bowl. The defending champions, Denver Broncos are led by their new play caller, Luke McCown. After spending most of his career as a backup, at age 34 McCown gets the opportunity to lead the Broncos on their attempt to return to the Super Bowl....

[Ravage!!!]

This D can win with nearly any QB. RG3 or Kap would both bring the rushing element to the position that we currently lack. Both have the potential to be pro bowlers in the right system with the right coaching. If Brock goes, bring in one of those two boom or bust guys. Sounds crazy, but this team proved it needs little to no offensive support. It's the perfect team to take a chance on either of those two.

I personally believe its naive to think that kind of "magic in a bottle" can happen 2 seasons in a row.

RGIII won't be any cheaper considering the list of UFA QBs available, and we KNOW he sucks. Kaep may not be leaving San Fran at all.

[chazoe60]

The only two names on that list that don't completely make my stomach turn are Fitz and Stanton

[Ravage!!!]

This is Jim Nantz, bringing you the opening day matchup between the defending SB champions, Denver Broncos, against the team they beat in the Super Bowl, the Caroline Panthers. Carolina is led by 2015 MVP Cam Newton who had an amazing '15 season and playoff run, but much to prove after a dissapointing performance in the Super Bowl. The defending champions, Denver Broncos are lead by their new play caller, Luke McCown. After spending most of his career as a backup, McCown gets the opportunity to lead the Broncos on their attempt to return to the Super Bowl....

Ugh.........I thin I'll have nightmares tonight.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Can't remember if I heard it on the Fan or where, but wherever, it was stated that the Broncos are high on Siemian, and he has a stronger arm than Osweiler.

[Tned]

Ugh.........I thin I'll have nightmares tonight.

Yea, I thought you might like that....

Overpaying and gambling on Osweiler doesn't sound as bad when you consider the alternative.

[Tned]

Can't remember if I heard it on the Fan or where, but wherever, it was stated that the Broncos are high on Siemian, and he has a stronger arm than Osweiler.

Yep, Elway recently said he thinks he can be a quality starter in the league, or something like that, but few think he's ready now.

[Cugel]

This D can win with nearly any QB. RG3 or Kap would both bring the rushing element to the position that we currently lack. Both have the potential to be pro bowlers in the right system with the right coaching. If Brock goes, bring in one of those two boom or bust guys. Sounds crazy, but this team proved it needs little to no offensive support. It's the perfect team to take a chance on either of those two.

The team proved they needed little offensive support in 2015. But, the defense will never be as good again as they were this past year.

Great defense wins championships but it doesn't last.

The '86 Bears, the 2001 Ravens, the 2003 Bucs, the 2014-15 Seahawks. None of them repeated as champions.

Everybody wants to be paid, like Malik Jackson and Danny Trevathan. They are going to lose at least 2 starters off the defense.

Then all 31 other teams study how to beat your defense. Chad Brown said that when he was playing on a #1 defense he saw teams run plays in week 7 that they hadn't seen on film EVER. That team had practiced some play back in June and July and kept it secret until week 7 of the season just to spring on the SB champion.

Everybody wants to raid your players and figure out how to attack your defense.

The Seahawks managed to keep almost every significant player on their defense - re signing Kam Chancellor, Richard Sherman, Earl Thomas, Michael Bennett, Bobby Wagner, Cliff Avril, basically their entire defense from 2013.

But, in the playoffs they gave up 31 points to Carolina in the first half. That great defensive chemistry just doesn't last, and it won't last on the Broncos.

The worst loss facing the Broncos is that DeMarcus Ware is 34 this year and has suffered from serious back problems. He only played in 9 games in the regular season this year.

He's a Hall of Fame player who is irreplaceable and this is probably his last year.

[Ravage!!!]

Drafting a QB might be a good idea - so that they have somebody ready for the 2018 season, but it won't be of much help now.

Seems that maybe we should just give whatever it takes to move into the top 5 and take a QB, if we can't sign Oz. Then, work with what we can THIs year for the OL with FA's and then work again in 2017 draft for OL to help the rook.

OR... sign the crappy QB and plan on losing a lot of games with the idea of drafting high in 2017.

[Cugel]

Quote Originally Posted by Denver Native (Carol) View Post
Can't remember if I heard it on the Fan or where, but wherever, it was stated that the Broncos are high on Siemian, and he has a stronger arm than Osweiler.

Guy was a 7th round pick, basically that's training camp fodder. Yes Elway has said some nice things about him, but nobody else in the NFL thinks Trevor Seimian is likely to become a starting caliber NFL QB.

And if he does, it's not going to be this season. You can't just expect him to leap off running the scout teams and being inactive on game day to starting for the defending SB champions. That would be like throwing a guy who barely knows how to swim into the shark tank and say "It's sink or swim kid. Here's your knife. Go kill those sharks!"

[FanInAZ]

This is Jim Nantz, bringing you the opening day matchup between the defending SB champions, Denver Broncos, against the team they beat in the Super Bowl, the Carolina Panthers. Carolina is led by 2015 MVP Cam Newton who had an amazing '15 season and playoff run, but much to prove after a dissapointing performance in the Super Bowl. The defending champions, Denver Broncos are led by their new play caller, Luke McCown. After spending most of his career as a backup, at age 34 McCown gets the opportunity to lead the Broncos on their attempt to return to the Super Bowl....

...Rumors persist that he was only given a chance because his almost funny commercials showing him being lonely & depressed, comparing himself to rarely used backup cell phone towers, caused Elway to feel sorry for him.

[Ravage!!!]

Yep, Elway recently said he thinks he can be a quality starter in the league, or something like that, but few think he's ready now.

That and didn't he go undrafted? I mean, other than .. Kurt Warner? .. can we think of any undrafted QB that became a good NFL starter?

(**ok.. a 7th round pick. Might as well been undrafted then)

[TXBRONC]

I think my stomach turned over reading that list.

Mine.too. I think I would rather endure a prostate exam.

[Lancane]

This D can win with nearly any QB. RG3 or Kap would both bring the rushing element to the position that we currently lack. Both have the potential to be pro bowlers in the right system with the right coaching. If Brock goes, bring in one of those two boom or bust guys. Sounds crazy, but this team proved it needs little to no offensive support. It's the perfect team to take a chance on either of those two.

So bring in two spread option quarterbacks for a pro-style offensive scheme, even though both proved they struggle in such offenses and were the replaced by Gsbbert in San Fran, the other dropped to third string? Yep, that is brilliant football management, give the quarterback who couldn't run Shanahan's system so he made it a hybrid and give him to his pupil who had to do the same thing for Manning and failed. Or give another who is near identical just has better legs. I'd rather trade for Jay Cutler or beg Jake Plummer to come out of retirement (and everyone knows how I feel about him!).

[MOtorboat]

Let's roll with a McCown brother. That would be awesomesauce.

[Ravage!!!]

So bring in two spread option quarterbacks for a pro-style offensive scheme, even though both proved they struggle in such offenses and were the replaced by Gsbbert in San Fran, the other dropped to third string? Yep, that is brilliant football management, give the quarterback who couldn't run Shanahan's system so he made it a hybrid and give him to his pupil who had to do the same thing for Manning and failed. Or give another who is near identical just has better legs. I'd rather trade for Jay Cutler or beg Jake Plummer to come out of retirement (and everyone knows how I feel about him!).

Jay Cutler would be an absolute dream at this point.

[MOtorboat]

Jay Cutler would be an absolute dream at this point.

Nope.

[Ravage!!!]

Nope.

Yup.

[TXBRONC]

Yup.

Agreed.

[Cugel]

Seems that maybe we should just give whatever it takes to move into the top 5 and take a QB, if we can't sign Oz. Then, work with what we can THIs year for the OL with FA's and then work again in 2017 draft for OL to help the rook.

OR... sign the crappy QB and plan on losing a lot of games with the idea of drafting high in 2017.

#1 - It might not be possible to trade all the way up from #31 to the top 5. Teams in the top 10 do want to move down, but generally not all the way to the end of the round.

#2 - The Broncos would have to give up something like 3 first round picks and/or players to move into the top 5 if it's even possible. Their #31 pick is worth 600 points. The #5 pick is worth 1700 points.

#3 - Even if they got that high, you're mortgaging your future for a guy who might turn out to be a bust. Remember the last team that moved up from around #19 or so to #5 to draft a QB? That was the Redskins who traded up to grab . . . . you guessed it - RGIII ! :rolleyes:

So that doesn't always work out great.

#4 - a lot of scouts apparently don't think much of this QB class, so there might not be any good QBs in the entire draft anyway.

That happens a lot in the NFL. Take a look at these QB classes:

2006:

1st round: Vince Young, Matt Leinart, Jay Cutler

2007:

1st round: Jamarcus Russell, Brady Quinn
2nd round: Kevin Kolb, John Beck, Drew Stanton

2010:

1st round: Sam Bradford, Tim Tebow
2nd round: Jimmy Clausen

2011: after Cam Newton went #1 overall:

1st round: Blaine Gabbert, Jake Locker, Christian Ponder

2012: After Andrew Luck went #1 overall:

1st round: RGIII, Ryan Tannehill, Brandon Weeden
2nd & 3rd: Brock & Russell Wilson

And on and on it goes. Some years there are NO good QBs. Some years all the highly scouted ones suck, and some later round pick develops.

Basically, at best it's a crap shoot in which the dice are loaded against you.

[Tned]

Yup.

+1


.

[Cugel]

Quote Originally Posted by Ravage!!! View Post
Jay Cutler would be an absolute dream at this point.


Not if you had to pay him like this:


Jay Cutler signed a 7 year, $126,700,000 contract with the Chicago Bears, including $54,000,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $18,100,000. In 2016, Cutler will earn a base salary of $16,000,000. Cutler has a cap hit of $17,000,000 while his dead money value is $13,000,000.

I agree he would be better than the alternatives if Osweiler leaves. So would Aaron Rogers but, like Cutler he's under contract and not coming here either. :coffee:

[Ravage!!!]

Not if you had to pay him like this:


I agree he would be better than the alternatives if Osweiler leaves. So would Aaron Rogers but, like Cutler he's under contract and not coming here either. :coffee:

Yeah.. he's obviously not going anywhere unless he was traded from Chicago, and if he was traded he would have to get a new contract.... and paying Jay 17 million would be pretty good for what we get in return.

BUT...all that being said, it was a facetious point of the discussion anyway.

[Cugel]

Quote Originally Posted by Lancane View Post
So bring in two spread option quarterbacks for a pro-style offensive scheme, even though both proved they struggle in such offenses and were the replaced by Gsbbert in San Fran, the other dropped to third string? Yep, that is brilliant football management, give the quarterback who couldn't run Shanahan's system so he made it a hybrid and give him to his pupil who had to do the same thing for Manning and failed. Or give another who is near identical just has better legs. I'd rather trade for Jay Cutler or beg Jake Plummer to come out of retirement (and everyone knows how I feel about him!).

None of those options makes any sense:

Jay Cutler is under contract and the Bears aren't trading him. And the Broncos couldn't afford him anyway.

Jake Plummer is 41 years old, older than Manning, and has been out of football since 2006. (Perhaps I missed the joke there).

[MOtorboat]

I like making the playoffs. So, that's a no for Jay Cutler.

[Cugel]

Yeah.. he's obviously not going anywhere unless he was traded from Chicago, and if he was traded he would have to get a new contract.... and paying Jay 17 million would be pretty good for what we get in return.

BUT...all that being said, it was a facetious point of the discussion anyway.

YOu're right Rav. At this point, we're down to discussing options that we know will never happen, because all the probable scenarios are so horrible.

(I'm just waiting for someone to bring up Tim Tebow again, since that always happens at some point in the discussion). :laugh:

[Cugel]

I like making the playoffs. So, that's a no for Jay Cutler.

What do you mean? He was AWESOME in the NFL Championship Game remember? I mean the way he gutted it out.

Most hilarious gratuitous Cutler insult:

[TV broadcast]"Have there been any more vagina sightings in the mid-west?"
"Nope. Just Jay Cutler."

[Ravage!!!]

None of those options makes any sense:

Jay Cutler is under contract and the Bears aren't trading him. And the Broncos couldn't afford him anyway.

Jake Plummer is 41 years old, older than Manning, and has been out of football since 2006. (Perhaps I missed the joke there).

Wow.... Cugal... Bro. There is NO "perhaps" about it..... you definitely missed the sarcasm and jokes all the way around. I think it's time you take off your serious hat. I think you and Joel would have one hell of a party, though.

[Cugel]

IF Brock walks realistically it's down to giving RGIII some insane amount of $ and hoping he signs here or trying to give Ryan Fitzpatrick some insane amount of money and trying to lure him away from the Jets. And the Broncos can't afford to throw money at QBs since their salary cap is so tight.

They might really have to start Trevor Seimian. That might really happen. *gulp*

[Cugel]

Wow.... Cugal... Bro. There is NO "perhaps" about it..... you definitely missed the sarcasm and jokes all the way around. I think it's time you take off your serious hat. I think you and Joel would have one hell of a party, though.

That's why I posted "missed the joke there" because I realized you weren't serious. That post was just a knee jerk reaction really. It wasn't meant to offend you, so sorry if you took it the wrong way. :wave:

[Tned]

None of those options makes any sense:

Jay Cutler is under contract and the Bears aren't trading him. And the Broncos couldn't afford him anyway.

Jake Plummer is 41 years old, older than Manning, and has been out of football since 2006. (Perhaps I missed the joke there).

Adam Brandt said Favre has considered coming out of retirement..

[Cugel]

Adam Brandt said Favre has considered coming out of retirement..

Jeff George keeps wanting to launch his comeback too!

[Tned]

Jeff George keeps wanting to launch his comeback too!

Marino wants his super bowl ring.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Let's go with plan A, the Brockweiler.

[Cugel]

Let's go with plan A, the Brockweiler.

Well, that is definitely Plan A. Unfortunately, it's also Plan A for Houston and Cleveland apparently, and they have a LOT more cash under the cap than the Broncos. They could afford to offer Osweiler $17 or even $18 M if they wanted to.

And they very well might. The Texans made the playoffs last year but their QB threw 5? picks in the game.

And the Browns are always looking for a QB. They might conclude Osweiler is the answer and use their #2 pick on a defensive player.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Well, that is definitely Plan A. Unfortunately, it's also Plan A for Houston and Cleveland apparently, and they have a LOT more cash under the cap than the Broncos. They could afford to offer Osweiler $17 or even $18 M if they wanted to.

And they very well might. The Texans made the playoffs last year but their QB threw 5? picks in the game.

And the Browns are always looking for a QB. They might conclude Osweiler is the answer and use their #2 pick on a defensive player.

The browns already have a lot of money invested in McCown.
I could be wrong, but I don't think Brock goes to Houston for another 2 mill per.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Aside from that, I believe Manning's retirement and restructuring Clady and possibly Ware will free up 25.

How much do we need for draft picks, 5-8?

[TXBRONC]

I like making the playoffs. So, that's a no for Jay Cutler.

He's been to the playoffs more often than Fitzpatrick.

[Lancane]

Good God, this sucks. If it's not Osweiler my best guess is Denver trades up to 11 or 12 and they take Paxton Lynch.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Who knows exactly what Denver's draft picks are?

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Who knows exactly what Denver's draft picks are?

http://www.milehighreport.com/2016/1/4/10704864/broncos-draft-2016-order-nfl-draft

[CrazyHorse]

Rg3

[tripp]

Brock could be a great QB someday, but I think we're over hyping Brock's play, and so is a lot of other fans around the NFL as well. Regardless if he comes back to the Broncos, or plays elsewhere... I don't think he's going to make an immediate impact. He's going to need a couple years before he becomes serviceable starter. He was terribly inconsistent throughout the 7 games, and couldn't play all 4 quarters. He was M.I.A in the 1st half of the Bengals game, 1st half of the Pats game, 2nd half of the Chargers game in SD, couldn't string a TD pass together against the Raiders, looked amazing in the 1st half of the Steelers game - 2nd half again was M.I.A, and then gets benched against SD at home, for Peyton Manning.

I'm not trying to be overly critical because again, he's only played 7 games. But I'm not sure if ends up being 5-2 as a starter if it wasn't for our defense.

[FanInAZ]

That and didn't he go undrafted? I mean, other than .. Kurt Warner? .. can we think of any undrafted QB that became a good NFL starter?

(**ok.. a 7th round pick. Might as well been undrafted then)

It would be time consuming to try to figure out every undrafted QB that ever started since the draft was instituted in 1936. It also should be taken into consideration that the draft today is shorter, in terms of number of players taken, then in the past.

Today’s 32 teams X 7 rounds + 32 commentary picks = 256 picks.
Elway’s 1983 draft year, 28 teams X 12 rounds = 336 picks.
In 1959, 12 teams X 30 rounds (1936-1959) = 360 picks.
In 1976, 28 teams X 17 rounds + 11 picks that I can’t explain = 487 picks

Bottom line, players that are undrafted today might have been late round picks in the past, like all-time Broncos’ great: Karl Mecklenburg (12th round, pick 310). Using the Pro-Football.com “Draft Finder,” I compiled the full list of every QB drafted after the 7th round & the 256th pick overall. All of these players would be undrafted today.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/draft-finder.cgi?request=1&year_min=1936&year_max=2015&type=&round_min=8&round_max=30&slot_min=257&slot_max=500&league_id=&team_id=&pos_new=qb&college_id=all&conference=any&show=all&order_by=

The best players on this list:

Steve DeBerg (10th round, 275th pick of 1977, Cowboys)
Brian Sipe (13th round, 330th pick of 1972, Browns)
Bobby Lee (17th round, 441st pick of 1968, Vikings)

If we did away with the commentary picks, & include those who were taken after the 225th, we would include a SB winner:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/draft-finder.cgi?request=1&year_min=1936&year_max=2015&type=&round_min=8&round_max=30&slot_min=225&slot_max=500&league_id=&team_id=&pos_new=qb&college_id=all&conference=any&show=all&order_by=

Brad Johnson (9th round, 227th pick of 1992, Vikings)

[Tned]

Brock could be a great QB someday, but I think we're over hyping Brock's play, and so is a lot of other fans around the NFL as well. Regardless if he comes back to the Broncos, or plays elsewhere... I don't think he's going to make an immediate impact. He's going to need a couple years before he becomes serviceable starter. He was terribly inconsistent throughout the 7 games, and couldn't play all 4 quarters. He was M.I.A in the 1st half of the Bengals game, 1st half of the Pats game, 2nd half of the Chargers game in SD, couldn't string a TD pass together against the Raiders, looked amazing in the 1st half of the Steelers game - 2nd half again was M.I.A, and then gets benched against SD at home, for Peyton Manning.

I'm not trying to be overly critical because again, he's only played 7 games. But I'm not sure if ends up being 5-2 as a starter if it wasn't for our defense.

That might all be true, so what is Plan B for 2016?

[Lancane]

Rg3

What is with people wanting a brokedown spread option quarterback, we are not Carolina...he doesn't fit the offense.

[tripp]

That might all be true, so what is Plan B for 2016?

I'd try to make a play for A.J. McCarron, see what the Bengals value him at. I rate him better than Oz.

[Lancane]

It would be time consuming to try to figure out every undrafted QB that ever started since the draft was instituted in 1936. It also should be taken into consideration that the draft today is shorter, in terms of number of players taken, then in the past.

Today’s 32 teams X 7 rounds + 32 commentary picks = 256 picks.
Elway’s 1983 draft year, 28 teams X 12 rounds = 336 picks.
In 1959, 12 teams X 30 rounds (1936-1959) = 360 picks.
In 1976, 28 teams X 17 rounds + 11 picks that I can’t explain = 487 picks

Bottom line, players that are undrafted today might have been late round picks in the past, like all-time Broncos’ great: Karl Mecklenburg (12th round, pick 310). Using the Pro-Football.com “Draft Finder,” I compiled the full list of every QB drafted after the 7th round & the 256th pick overall. All of these players would be undrafted today.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/draft-finder.cgi?request=1&year_min=1936&year_max=2015&type=&round_min=8&round_max=30&slot_min=257&slot_max=500&league_id=&team_id=&pos_new=qb&college_id=all&conference=any&show=all&order_by=

The best players on this list:

Steve DeBerg (10th round, 275th pick of 1977, Cowboys)
Brian Sipe (13th round, 330th pick of 1972, Browns)
Bobby Lee (17th round, 441st pick of 1968, Vikings)

If we did away with the commentary picks, & include those who were taken after the 225th, we would include a SB winner:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/draft-finder.cgi?request=1&year_min=1936&year_max=2015&type=&round_min=8&round_max=30&slot_min=225&slot_max=500&league_id=&team_id=&pos_new=qb&college_id=all&conference=any&show=all&order_by=

Brad Johnson (9th round, 227th pick of 1992, Vikings)

It's a rarity, more rare then defensive juggernauts winning a SB. If finding a quarterback was so easy then all teams would have franchise/elite quarterbacks as starters and backups. Let's be honest, has there not been a QB drafted late or undrafted that certain fans haven't gone goo-goo eyed, bat **** crazy over as if they were the next great? Jackson, Van Pelt, Mauck, etc, etc. Which is a reason some fans I am glad will never have GM powers in the pro ranks.

[Joel]

#1 - It might not be possible to trade all the way up from #31 to the top 5. Teams in the top 10 do want to move down, but generally not all the way to the end of the round.

#2 - The Broncos would have to give up something like 3 first round picks and/or players to move into the top 5 if it's even possible. Their #31 pick is worth 600 points. The #5 pick is worth 1700 points.

#3 - Even if they got that high, you're mortgaging your future for a guy who might turn out to be a bust. Remember the last team that moved up from around #19 or so to #5 to draft a QB? That was the Redskins who traded up to grab . . . . you guessed it - RGIII ! :rolleyes:

So that doesn't always work out great.
Yes, we remember that, as does Elway and ALL other NFL GMs: That's why ALL 5 GMs with top 5 picks know they can't get THREE freakin' 1st rounders AND a 2nd for the #2 overall pick, much less a later one, which bring us to the next point:

Top QBs don't require top 5 picks. Historically, 1st round QBs do about as well whether they go early OR late, and the "gap" is little more between early/late 2nd round picks. 1st rounders bust less often than 2nd rounders, but where a guy's picked WITHIN a given round doesn't seem to matter much. The draft's subjective, and enough of a crap shoot there's usually wiggle room (e.g. some scouts rated Leaf>Manning) but pro scouts are rarely off much about many players.

Much depends on the position quality in the particular draft, yes, but there's a JaWalrus for every Manning, and a Rodgers for every Pennington. Knowing that, would you rather trade up to Leaf and Russells #1 spot or #24 (where Rodgers went)? Because the odds of a franchise QB are about the same both places, but the cost of getting there is VERY different.

[Northman]

Ok, here's a list of the free agent QBs. If Elway can't resign Osweiler, what is plan B? Which of these QBs do you think Elway will go after and do you think can lead the Broncos back to the SB?

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/quarterback/

Fitzpatrick?
One of the Matt's (Cassell, Flynn, Moore, Hasselback or Schaub)?
Vick?
Luke McCown?
Yates, Clausen, or Keenum?
Brandon Weeden?
Drew Stanton or Chase Daniel?

The rest of the list is at the link above, but it isn't exactly an all star cast.

So, what do you think Plan B will be. Can't go with just Siemian along with a drafted rookie, can we?

I think the Jets will hold onto Fitz for now and probably draft another somewhere in the draft. So i think (my personal preference) Denver should either go with Yates who has had some success both in regular season and playoffs or get Hasselback and then draft a guy like Cook or Hogan depending on availability. None of the other choices do anything for me. Schaub is familiar with Kubes system but i highly doubt Kubes goes back down that road again with him.

[Northman]

This D can win with nearly any QB. RG3 or Kap would both bring the rushing element to the position that we currently lack. Both have the potential to be pro bowlers in the right system with the right coaching. If Brock goes, bring in one of those two boom or bust guys. Sounds crazy, but this team proved it needs little to no offensive support. It's the perfect team to take a chance on either of those two.

I disagree with you here only because the guys you mention are highly inconsistent with their passing which leads to a lot of turnovers. I think Denver needs to find a QB who can game manage rather than get sloppy with the football.

[Northman]

Brock could be a great QB someday, but I think we're over hyping Brock's play, and so is a lot of other fans around the NFL as well. Regardless if he comes back to the Broncos, or plays elsewhere... I don't think he's going to make an immediate impact. He's going to need a couple years before he becomes serviceable starter. He was terribly inconsistent throughout the 7 games, and couldn't play all 4 quarters. He was M.I.A in the 1st half of the Bengals game, 1st half of the Pats game, 2nd half of the Chargers game in SD, couldn't string a TD pass together against the Raiders, looked amazing in the 1st half of the Steelers game - 2nd half again was M.I.A, and then gets benched against SD at home, for Peyton Manning.

I'm not trying to be overly critical because again, he's only played 7 games. But I'm not sure if ends up being 5-2 as a starter if it wasn't for our defense.

All very good points but i will point out that Manning would not have had the record he had this year without that same defense. Granted, in both cases one was fighting injury and one was very inexperienced so that played a factor in both players struggles. But overall you are correct, no one should be over hyping Brock right now and he does not deserve a huge contract based on his small sample size. Someone may pay him a big contract but it would not be a good idea for Denver to be that team at this juncture.

[tomjonesrocks]

Foles may still come available and I'm unconvinced he couldn't be better than Brock.

[TXBRONC]

It would be time consuming to try to figure out every undrafted QB that ever started since the draft was instituted in 1936. It also should be taken into consideration that the draft today is shorter, in terms of number of players taken, then in the past.

Today’s 32 teams X 7 rounds + 32 commentary picks = 256 picks.
Elway’s 1983 draft year, 28 teams X 12 rounds = 336 picks.
In 1959, 12 teams X 30 rounds (1936-1959) = 360 picks.
In 1976, 28 teams X 17 rounds + 11 picks that I can’t explain = 487 picks

Bottom line, players that are undrafted today might have been late round picks in the past, like all-time Broncos’ great: Karl Mecklenburg (12th round, pick 310). Using the Pro-Football.com “Draft Finder,” I compiled the full list of every QB drafted after the 7th round & the 256th pick overall. All of these players would be undrafted today.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/draft-finder.cgi?request=1&year_min=1936&year_max=2015&type=&round_min=8&round_max=30&slot_min=257&slot_max=500&league_id=&team_id=&pos_new=qb&college_id=all&conference=any&show=all&order_by=

The best players on this list:

Steve DeBerg (10th round, 275th pick of 1977, Cowboys)
Brian Sipe (13th round, 330th pick of 1972, Browns)
Bobby Lee (17th round, 441st pick of 1968, Vikings)

If we did away with the commentary picks, & include those who were taken after the 225th, we would include a SB winner:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/draft-finder.cgi?request=1&year_min=1936&year_max=2015&type=&round_min=8&round_max=30&slot_min=225&slot_max=500&league_id=&team_id=&pos_new=qb&college_id=all&conference=any&show=all&order_by=

Brad Johnson (9th round, 227th pick of 1992, Vikings)

Deacon Jones was something like a 12th round pick.

[slim]

We're going with plan A

[Ravage!!!]

Foles may still come available and I'm unconvinced he couldn't be better than Brock.

but he sucks. I mean, SUCKS. There is a reason that he could have his 3rd team in 3 years.

[Ravage!!!]

I'd try to make a play for A.J. McCarron, see what the Bengals value him at. I rate him better than Oz.

This might be one of the best suggestions made. Ironically enough, he has less experience than Oz, and we would have to GIVE something to the Bengals to get him.

[TXBRONC]

I think the Jets will hold onto Fitz for now and probably draft another somewhere in the draft. So i think (my personal preference) Denver should either go with Yates who has had some success both in regular season and playoffs or get Hasselback and then draft a guy like Cook or Hogan depending on availability. None of the other choices do anything for me. Schaub is familiar with Kubes system but i highly doubt Kubes goes back down that road again with him.

Yates has also played for Kubiak before in Houston. I wouldn't expect that he start or for that matter be in Denver for very long but he might be serviceable stop gap.

[CoachChaz]

This might be one of the best suggestions made. Ironically enough, he has less experience than Oz, and we would have to GIVE something to the Bengals to get him.

But we wouldnt have to give him 17 mil a year without seeing what he can do for a full season. That gets my vote...but I highly doubt Cincy has any desire to deal him.

[Lancane]

Trading for AJ McCarron is the only solid Plan B I have heard so far.

[CoachChaz]

Trading for AJ McCarron is the only solid Plan B I have heard so far.

Agreed...I just wouldnt spend much time expecting it to be a viable option

[TXBRONC]

Trading for AJ McCarron is the only solid Plan B I have heard so far.

I think that depends on what the Bengals would want for him. Talent wise I get it, but like Osweiler he's limited in experience.

[Lancane]

McCarron would still be under contract though, so they would get that evaluation time. If Marshall is signed away as I expect, then that second round pick could be key.

[tripp]

All very good points but i will point out that Manning would not have had the record he had this year without that same defense. Granted, in both cases one was fighting injury and one was very inexperienced so that played a factor in both players struggles. But overall you are correct, no one should be over hyping Brock right now and he does not deserve a huge contract based on his small sample size. Someone may pay him a big contract but it would not be a good idea for Denver to be that team at this juncture.

Wouldn't even surprise me if the Texans throw the bank at Brock, and the Texans will be handicapped by his contract. I won't blame Brock if he takes the money, but how have teams not learned from situations like Ryan Tannehill...



This might be one of the best suggestions made. Ironically enough, he has less experience than Oz, and we would have to GIVE something to the Bengals to get him.

He made strong pin point throws to receivers 15 yards down the sideline and I thought he showed great composure during his brief time as a starter. I was impressed. If the bengals are serious about Andy dalton which I think they are, they'll have to let aj go, why not get something out of it? I'd spend a 3rd rounder on him over the free agent qb's (outside of Brock and fitz)

[Ravage!!!]

Wouldn't even surprise me if the Texans throw the bank at Brock, and the Texans will be handicapped by his contract. I won't blame Brock if he takes the money, but how have teams not learned from situations like Ryan Tannehill...




He made strong pin point throws to receivers 15 yards down the sideline and I thought he showed great composure during his brief time as a starter. I was impressed. If the bengals are serious about Andy dalton which I think they are, they'll have to let aj go, why not get something out of it? I'd spend a 3rd rounder on him over the free agent qb's (outside of Brock and fitz)

They don't have to let him go, though. As we saw through our Super Bowl winning season.... having a good guy behind the starter is paramount for getting through the season.

Ironically... we are willing to give up a 3rd round pick, AND salary (10?) for a guy that has even less starts and less learning time in the NFL than Brock does.

[tripp]

They don't have to let him go, though. As we saw through our Super Bowl winning season.... having a good guy behind the starter is paramount for getting through the season.

Ironically... we are willing to give up a 3rd round pick, AND salary (10?) for a guy that has even less starts and less learning time in the NFL than Brock does.

Well Aj will eventually leave the bengals in pursuit of starting somewhere. Instead of letting aj walk why not getting something in return. And I don't think it'd be hard to pry AJ out of the bengals hands. It's just a better option than what's out there in free agency.

I can't see AJ staying in Cincinnati behind Dalton forever.

[FanInAZ]

Deacon Jones was something like a 12th round pick.

He went to the Rams in the 14th Round, 186 pick over all, of the 1961 draft.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JoneDe00.htm

That overall pick would be the 8th pick of the 6th round this year. Therefore, he wouldn't be undrafted, he'd be drafted by the Bucs.

http://www.draftsite.com/nfl/mock-draft/2016/round6/

[TXBRONC]

He went to the Rams in the 14th Round, 186 pick over all, of the 1961 draft.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JoneDe00.htm

That overall pick would be the 8th pick of the 6th round this year. Therefore, he wouldn't be undrafted, he'd be drafted by the Bucs.

http://www.draftsite.com/nfl/mock-draft/2016/round6/

When did they change to eight rounds?

[MOtorboat]

When did they change to eight rounds?

1993.

[FanInAZ]

When did they change to eight rounds?

Actually, the NFL had 8 rounds for only 1 season, 1993.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1993/draft.htm

It changed to 7 rounds + compensatory picks equaling the number of teams since 1994.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1994/draft.htm

[TXBRONC]

1993.

The draft is seven rounds.

[MOtorboat]

The draft is seven rounds.

You asked when it went from 12 to 8. The answer to that question is 1993.

[FanInAZ]

The draft is seven rounds.

+ 32 compensatory picks.

[Tned]

Not in Plan A territory anymore.

[TXBRONC]

Not in Plan A territory anymore.

Yeah pretty much.

[LTC Pain]

I'd think the Broncos would trade for a Vet QB with some experience and also draft a QB in April. Let the Vet QB start while Semien and drafted QB develop. Unless Elway has IDed a QB he can draft and start Day 1?