Report: Broncos offer Brock Osweiler a three-year deal worth more than $45 million dollars [Archive]

Cugel

03-05-2016, 03:44 PM

Put this under the category of "boy was I wrong!"

I believed all the hype that Elway would rather let Brock walk than pay him $15M a year.

Well, he's offering him $15M a year for 3 years! And his agent is saying that it's not enough!

According to Mike Klis of 9NEWS Denver, the Denver Broncos have reportedly offered quarterback Brock Osweiler a three-year deal that is worth more than $45 million dollars. (http://www.milehighreport.com/2016/3/5/11166538/report-broncos-offer-brock-osweiler-a-three-year-deal-worth-more-than)

This deal would pay Osweiler at least, $15 million dollars per year. The last reported offer to Osweiler reportedly averaged out at $12 million dollars per year. So General Manager John Elway is showing that he really wants to lock up his quarterback of the future.

According to Klis, Osweiler's deal if full of incentives and it is unknown how much of the $45 million would be fully guaranteed. Those details right there will probably be the reason why or why not Osweiler signs this contract with the Broncos.

The Broncos only have until Monday to work something out with Osweiler before he will be able to talk to the other 31 teams. If he reaches the tampering period, teams like the Houston Texans, Los Angeles Rams, Cleveland Browns, and the New York Jets could all reach out to Osweiler. All of the teams mentioned have plenty of money to spend this offseason, so that could make it difficult of the Broncos to re-sign their free agent quarterback.

If one or more of those teams offer Osweiler a better deal, will General Manager John Elway match their offer? Or will he allow Osweiler sign with another team?

The Broncos will need to figure out what to do with Peyton Manning before they can sign Osweiler to anything.

Manning's agent Tom Condon said on Friday that the Broncos "will have to make a move" on the Manning front before the March 9th deadline, and Klis says in his piece that the team expects to hear something by Monday or Tuesday of next week.

The obvious outcome would be Manning and the Broncos parting ways sometime early next week. This would allow the Broncos to sign Osweiler and their other free agents.

The Broncos are also expected to have restructured deals with offensive tackle Ryan Clady and linebacker DeMarcus Ware finalized early next week as well.

This upcoming week is going to be very interesting for the Broncos.

Cugel

03-05-2016, 03:51 PM

Benjamin Allbright
‏@AllbrightNFL

Tell you right now, for an absolute fact, the #Broncos offer to Osweiler wont be the highest he receives.

@AllbrightNFL Have to imagine Houston and Cleveland would offer more regardless of whether or not that's a smart idea

That's why they are the Texans and Browns, teams that have never won a SB or even been to one. :coffee:

So, the bidding war for Osweiler's services heats up to a white hot pitch. If Cleveland offers $16+ M a year to Osweiler that is just so stupid it's off the chart.

They have the #2 pick of the draft and can take any QB they want - and pay him about $5 M a year. And use the rest of their salary cap to draft and sign defensive FAs. Duh!

Did they pay NO attention to the formula both the Broncos and Seahags used to win the SB? Apparently not.

OrangeHoof

03-05-2016, 03:53 PM

I want to keep him but not at Von money. Our D won that trophy. We could have Ryan Fitzpatrick at QB and still make the playoffs before we find our next superstar QB.

Cugel

03-05-2016, 03:56 PM

I want to keep him but not at Von money. Our D won that trophy. We could have Ryan Fitzpatrick at QB and still make the playoffs before we find our next superstar QB.

Since Von is going to get somewhere close to the $114M - 5 year contract that Suh got, Osweiler is NOT getting remotely "Von Money." Even if Von winds up getting only around $20M a year, Brock won't approach that.

We're talking about some idiot team like the Browns offering him $17 or $18M. We have to hope that it's more like $16M.

But, lots of teams have a TON of cash they have to spend under the cap. And many of those teams are proven "lifetime achievement award" idiots. Like the Browns.

As for Ryan Fitzpatrick, he is going to re-sign with the Jets or he'll be franchised. He's NOT going to become a FA, so that's out of the question. The only question for him is whether he gets the same yearly salary as Sam Bradford - 2 years, $36M, with $11 M signing bonus, and $4M roster bonus in 2017.

If the Jets ("Jest!, Jest! Jest!") franchise Fitzpatrick, they have to pay him $19M but only have a 1 year commitment, which of course costs less, while they try and find a future franchise QB for next year.

Denver Native (Carol)

03-05-2016, 04:01 PM

Cugel

03-05-2016, 04:03 PM

Clearly Elway does not have a "Plan B." So, he's going to have to make sure he doesn't lose Osweiler.

"Plan B? We don't have a Plan B. We're going Plan A!" -- John Elway.

MOtorboat

03-05-2016, 04:05 PM

Clearly Elway does not have a "Plan B." So, he's going to have to make sure he doesn't lose Osweiler.

"Plan B? We don't have a Plan B. We're going Plan A!" -- John Elway.

You have to be pretty naive to think Elway hasn't thought of a scenario that doesn't involve Osweiler.

Northman

03-05-2016, 04:05 PM

I'm sorry, but I don't feel Brock has shown enough yet to deserve what the Broncos have offered, and that is still NOT good enough for his agent. Brock played 7 regular season games this past season and $15 mil is not enough, even though Peyton played 18 years and was getting $19 mil.

If his agent wants him to go to a crap team and get more money, where he wont see the playoffs for who knows how long - SEE YA.

Agreed.

Im one of his biggest supporters and i feel what we have offered him is a bit too much at this point in time. Denver has shown they will budge from their initial offer lets see if Brock is willing to do the same if not. Time to look at other options.

DenBronx

03-05-2016, 04:09 PM

Even before this report I flip flopped on is keeping Brock. I am in the camp that says resign as many as possible guys on defense and trade up in the draft for a QB. That is a winning formula for success, defense wins championships.

I am sure Brock will be a decent QB wherever he goes but I just don't see him as the chosen one. Please Mr. Elway....GO GET JARED GOFF!!!

Tned

03-05-2016, 04:15 PM

Since Von is going to get somewhere close to the $114M - 5 year contract that Suh got, Osweiler is NOT getting remotely "Von Money." Even if Von winds up getting only around $20M a year, Brock won't approach that.

We're talking about some idiot team like the Browns offering him $17 or $18M. We have to hope that it's more like $16M.

But, lots of teams have a TON of cash they have to spend under the cap. And many of those teams are proven "lifetime achievement award" idiots. Like the Browns.

As for Ryan Fitzpatrick, he is going to re-sign with the Jets or he'll be franchised. He's NOT going to become a FA, so that's out of the question. The only question for him is whether he gets the same yearly salary as Sam Bradford - 2 years, $36M, with $11 M signing bonus, and $4M roster bonus in 2017.

If the Jets ("Jest!, Jest! Jest!") franchise Fitzpatrick, they have to pay him $19M but only have a 1 year commitment, which of course costs less, while they try and find a future franchise QB for next year.

Franchise tags had to be declared last week.

Northman

03-05-2016, 04:16 PM

Cugel

03-05-2016, 04:18 PM

You have to be pretty naive to think Elway hasn't thought of a scenario that doesn't involve Osweiler.

It's obvious that he HAS "thought of a scenario that doesn't involve Osweiler." And that scenario was pretty horrible. That's why he's offering Brock $15 M a year - which is about $3M a year more than what his top offer in his negotiating position was just 1 week ago.

Elway is apparently screwed by his own reluctance to re-negotiate BEFORE Brock could become a FA.

He could have signed him last year for around $6 M (according to Mike Klis, the Broncos Insider on the radio this week). So, Elway wanted to "think it over", and it's costing him at least $9 M a year to do that!

Denver Native (Carol)

03-05-2016, 04:20 PM

more from Kils' article:

It might be a stretch, though, to say Osweiler has comparable value to those quarterbacks, who are far more established.

The closest comparison to Osweiler is Nick Foles who has the 22nd richest contracts among the 22 starting quarterbacks who have progressed beyond their rookie deals.

The 21st-highest-paid starting quarterback is Andy Dalton, who had 30 wins and 80 touchdown passes before he received his extension that pays $16 million a year.

Even Foles was far more accomplished with a 14-4 record and 40 touchdown passes against 12 interceptions in the two seasons before he got his two-year, $24.54 million extension with the Rams.

Yet the Broncos non-incentive annual average offer to Osweiler is more than Foles’ $12.27 million average, according to sources. With incentives, Osweiler would have a chance to approach Dalton’s average.

http://www.9news.com/sports/broncos-offer-to-osweiler-3-years-more-than-45-million/69607526

Cugel

03-05-2016, 04:27 PM

I wouldnt sell the farm on Goff. He is just as much as an unknown as any player in the draft.

Not only is that true - for all we know he could be the next Ryan Leaf, which you can't say about Osweiler right now, but the Broncos could never in Hell get him.

Goff is going to be a top 5 pick. Maybe a top 3. The 5th pick is worth 1700 points. The Broncos #31 pick is worth 600. It would take around THREE of the Broncos #1 picks to equal the Jaguars pick. And teams moving down typically want a premium, which would mean they would want not only multiple 1st round picks, but also a starting player or other picks.

In short it aint' worth it!

Even if Elway were willing to give up something like his #1 for the next 3 years, the Jaguars would not be interested in trading all the way down to #31.

Teams in the top 10 want to trade down, but not that far down. They typically want to trade down so they can get the same players they may have on top of their draft board, but with a slightly later pick that will cost them less $ to sign.

If they've been scouting top 10 talent and getting all excited about which player they might select, they are not going to be intrigued by totally shifting to concentrate on which player might sift down to the end of the round.

In short, such a trade is NOT going to happen. Yet every year fans who are ignorant of these basic facts keep saying things like "trade up to #5 and get Goff!!!"

BTW: the amount of thought or knowledge that goes into such posts is inversely proportional to the number of !!!

Cugel

03-05-2016, 04:31 PM

It might be a stretch, though, to say Osweiler has comparable value to those quarterbacks, who are far more established.

The closest comparison to Osweiler is Nick Foles who has the 22nd richest contracts among the 22 starting quarterbacks who have progressed beyond their rookie deals.

The 21st-highest-paid starting quarterback is Andy Dalton, who had 30 wins and 80 touchdown passes before he received his extension that pays $16 million a year.

Even Foles was far more accomplished with a 14-4 record and 40 touchdown passes against 12 interceptions in the two seasons before he got his two-year, $24.54 million extension with the Rams.

Yet the Broncos non-incentive annual average offer to Osweiler is more than Foles’ $12.27 million average, according to sources. With incentives, Osweiler would have a chance to approach Dalton’s average.

"Ain't it the truth! Ain't it the truth!" - The Cowardly Lion

This is what happens if you wait till the player hits FA where you can expect the typical feeding frenzy to occur.

8695
"Feeding frenzy!"

But, Elway has clearly looked at the alternatives and they are worse. He screwed himself by failing to get Brock under a renewed contract a long time ago, when it would have cost about $9 M less per year.

DenBronx

03-05-2016, 04:33 PM

HORSEPOWER 56

03-05-2016, 04:34 PM

DenBronx

03-05-2016, 04:35 PM

I'm sorry, but I don't feel Brock has shown enough yet to deserve what the Broncos have offered, and that is still NOT good enough for his agent. Brock played 7 regular season games this past season and $15 mil is not enough, even though Peyton played 18 years and was getting $19 mil.

If his agent wants him to go to a crap team and get more money, where he wont see the playoffs for who knows how long - SEE YA.

Carol bringin the heat! I don't think I've ever seen you this passionate. Lol

Cugel

03-05-2016, 04:35 PM

I'm sorry your highness. We are all just peasants and unworthy of discussing football in the offseason. Please tell us how wrong we are and give us your blueprint on how to be a championship team.

-_-

How about you take a nice swim?

8696

Cugel

03-05-2016, 04:37 PM

I'm sure the contract is probably closer to $10 mil per year with lots of incentives. I have no doubt it's like Manning's deal last year. Pass for so many yards/TDs, wins, win in the playoffs, win the AFCCG, win the SB, etc. I'm sure there's probably an "escape clause" in there too where we can cut him with less of a cap hit if he stinks it up (not a ton of guaranteed money). Probably why Brock is balking.

I'd be interested to see what teams would be dumb enough to offer more. I doubt too many teams will throw anywhere near 16-17 mil with most guaranteed at him. There's just too many cases of backups coming in and doing well on an already good team that flop elsewhere (Cassell, Flynn, Foles, etc) for teams to just hand Oz top ten QB $ after a 5-2 record, a 10/6 TD/Int ratio, and the league's best defense in over a decade behind you. Good luck Brocko, I don't think you'll get a better deal elsewhere.

You may be right that most of that money wouldn't be guaranteed, but if so, Osweiler probably won't sign it.

The only money that means anything in the NFL is guaranteed money. Brock could get injured and not earn any of his incentives. He's looking for $32M + in guaranteed money - i.e. about 2 years worth.

And it's easy to say "Good luck Brocko! Don't let the door hit you on the way out!"

And then stare into the abyss where the Broncos open the season with Trevor Seimian as their starting QB.

Clearly Elway is not willing to do that.

MOtorboat

03-05-2016, 04:52 PM

G_Money

03-05-2016, 04:58 PM

I said I thought John would offer 3/36 and any more than 3/45 seemed like a stretch for me. Seems about right. I'm very curious as to what John's Plan B would be. Can't really be bringing Manning back, I would think. And as much as I like Siemian as a backup option I'm not sure I want to see him taking the field in Game One as the starting QB for the defending champs.

Hopefully Brock realizes that playing for a dumpster fire like the Browns is not worth the extra couple mill, because he'll never get a good starting opportunity again, and the two sides can come to an arrangement.

I wouldn't pay Brock 18-20 million a year either, though.

LTC Pain

03-05-2016, 04:59 PM

Don't forget to breathe.

I'm just surprised how much Cugel sees as "clearly" and "obviously" about Elway's "screwed up" decision making?

HORSEPOWER 56

03-05-2016, 05:06 PM

You may be right that most of that money wouldn't be guaranteed, but if so, Osweiler probably won't sign it.

The only money that means anything in the NFL is guaranteed money. Brock could get injured and not earn any of his incentives. He's looking for $32M + in guaranteed money - i.e. about 2 years worth.

And it's easy to say "Good luck Brocko! Don't let the door hit you on the way out!"

And then stare into the abyss where the Broncos open the season with Trevor Seimian as their starting QB.

Clearly Elway is not willing to do that.

"Stare into the abyss" Is a little bit melodramatic. There are QBs out there, both in FA and the draft, that would probably do fine here. It's not like we even need a savior at QB. We just need a guy who can run Kubiak's system and not turn the ball over at an alarming rate.

I'd be perfectly fine with a guy like RG3 or a rookie like Lynch or Prescott. We just aren't a team that needs an expensive pro bowl QB to win.

TXBRONC

03-05-2016, 05:11 PM

Clearly Elway does not have a "Plan B." So, he's going to have to make sure he doesn't lose Osweiler.

"Plan B? We don't have a Plan B. We're going Plan A!" -- John Elway.

Cugel, Elway doesn't fly by the seat of his pants.

VonDoom

03-05-2016, 05:11 PM

I'm sure the contract is probably closer to $10 mil per year with lots of incentives. I have no doubt it's like Manning's deal last year. Pass for so many yards/TDs, wins, win in the playoffs, win the AFCCG, win the SB, etc. I'm sure there's probably an "escape clause" in there too where we can cut him with less of a cap hit if he stinks it up (not a ton of guaranteed money). Probably why Brock is balking.

I'd be interested to see what teams would be dumb enough to offer more. I doubt too many teams will throw anywhere near 16-17 mil with most guaranteed at him. There's just too many cases of backups coming in and doing well on an already good team that flop elsewhere (Cassell, Flynn, Foles, etc) for teams to just hand Oz top ten QB $ after a 5-2 record, a 10/6 TD/Int ratio, and the league's best defense in over a decade behind you. Good luck Brocko, I don't think you'll get a better deal elsewhere.

As I said in the other thread, the guaranteed money is what will make this happen (or not). That amount isn't disclosed here, nor are the incentives. It's not worth getting worked up about this one way or the other until a deal is struck.

DenBronx

03-05-2016, 05:26 PM

VonDoom

03-05-2016, 05:30 PM

Renck is reporting an average of 13 million a year, but he mentions incentives which probably get near Klis' number

Denver Native (Carol)

03-05-2016, 05:30 PM

Regardless if you like Colin Cowherd or not, this is what he said yesterday in regards to Brock, and he brought up some very interesting stuff as to why Brock should stay with the Broncos

https://amp.twimg.com/v/aaaa3f64-812d-47b9-9b03-8019138aed26

Timmy!

03-05-2016, 06:05 PM

:pop2:

ShaneFalco

03-05-2016, 07:26 PM

I'll take Tebow for 1m per year and all defense signed back.

15m ....that's nuts

Mike

03-05-2016, 07:34 PM

I'm sure the contract is probably closer to $10 mil per year with lots of incentives. I have no doubt it's like Manning's deal last year. Pass for so many yards/TDs, wins, win in the playoffs, win the AFCCG, win the SB, etc. I'm sure there's probably an "escape clause" in there too where we can cut him with less of a cap hit if he stinks it up (not a ton of guaranteed money). Probably why Brock is balking.

I'd be interested to see what teams would be dumb enough to offer more. I doubt too many teams will throw anywhere near 16-17 mil with most guaranteed at him. There's just too many cases of backups coming in and doing well on an already good team that flop elsewhere (Cassell, Flynn, Foles, etc) for teams to just hand Oz top ten QB $ after a 5-2 record, a 10/6 TD/Int ratio, and the league's best defense in over a decade behind you. Good luck Brocko, I don't think you'll get a better deal elsewhere.

If they did 10 with incentives up to 15 then I think that is a fair deal. That should be his value. If he wants to chase the $$ to Houston or Cleveland then let him. I hope Denver doesn't get in a bidding war. I think Siemien has more up side, but he needs more time to develop.

I am fine with bringing in a cheaper journeyman QB and keeping a killer defense and better o line vs an expensive question mark at QB with patchwork oline and losses on the defensive side.

Cugel

03-05-2016, 08:09 PM

I'm just surprised how much Cugel sees as "clearly" and "obviously" about Elway's "screwed up" decision making?

I'll try and explain this in little words of one syllable so you can grasp it.

Elway had to decide whether he thinks Brock is good enough to be his long-term QB of the future.

1. Yes = give him whatever it takes to re-sign him (within the limits of the salary cap).

2. No = Stick to his offer of less than $12M and let him walk if he won't take it. Then find someone else.

The fact that he's offering a $45 M contract means he's chosen #1.

That in turn means he wants Brock long term.

If he wanted Brock long term, he could have given him a new contract a year ago for around $5-$6 M per year. This isn't MY theory, it was stated by Mike Klis, Troy Renk and others this past week.

He waited, and the market soared so that he's now having to offer $15 M a year. $15 - $5 = $10 M a year x 3 years = $30 M extra.

What universe do you live in that you can't see that is a mistake?

Valar Morghulis

03-05-2016, 08:13 PM

Sometimes you can make the best decision at the time that turns out to be wrong retrospectively.

Cugel

03-05-2016, 08:13 PM

If they did 10 with incentives up to 15 then I think that is a fair deal. That should be his value. If he wants to chase the $$ to Houston or Cleveland then let him. I hope Denver doesn't get in a bidding war. I think Siemien has more up side, but he needs more time to develop.

I am fine with bringing in a cheaper journeyman QB and keeping a killer defense and better o line vs an expensive question mark at QB with patchwork oline and losses on the defensive side.

They are ALREADY in a bidding war. The $15M/year offer is $3M/year more than they were reportedly offering 1 week ago.

Elway didn't up his offer for his health. He did it because Osweiler's agent dissed the previous offer, and stated publicly that the Broncos had to make a better offer.

The current reporting now is that the Browns and possibly the Texans will offer MORE than $15M a year and Brock will have to choose whether to stay with the Broncos for less money or go to another team for possibly $1-3M more a year.

Benjamin Allbright
‏@AllbrightNFL

Tell you right now, for an absolute fact, the #Broncos offer to Osweiler wont be the highest he receives.

This was always the problem. I was worried about this happening since the beginning of the season. Elway certainly knew it was a possibility that he would get out-bid, but he was unwilling to do anything about it.

Now he may have to fish around and find another QB.

Cugel

03-05-2016, 08:20 PM

Sometimes you can make the best decision at the time that turns out to be wrong retrospectively.

Why was it the "best decision at the time" not to re-sign Osweiler, when they ended up trying to do exactly that, for much more money?

I'm not substituting my judgement for Elways' about how good Brock is. He's the one who had to decide if Brock was his QB of the future. A 3 year, $45M contract offer says "yes."

If they had another $10 M this year, because they had locked Brock up for $5 M last year ($15M - $5M = $10M) they could re-sign Malik Jackson with that money, and possibly some other FAs as well.

Tned

03-05-2016, 08:24 PM

What universe do you live in that you can't see that is a mistake?

What universe do you live in when you don't realize there are many variables in play in any given sitution.

1. Osweiler may have made significant strides this year that made it clear that he was the QB they wanted vs. still being on the fence. This includes actually getting a chance to see him in games for the first time.

2. Just because some sports reporters state that Oz would have taken $5 million last year, doesn't mean he would have.

Lancane

03-05-2016, 08:26 PM

ShaneFalco

03-05-2016, 08:26 PM

706142207930142720

Tned

03-05-2016, 08:27 PM

Why was it the "best decision at the time" not to re-sign Osweiler, when they ended up trying to do exactly that, for much more money?

Seriously, that's your response to Valar. He was saying something that tens of millions of people have said around the world, which is that "hindsight is 20/20" and that even when you make what you believe is the best decision based on the information at your disposal, sometimes with the benefit of hindsight, you find it was the wrong decision.

Apparently, you are the only person in the universe that this doesn't apply to.

Cugel

03-05-2016, 08:44 PM

What universe do you live in when you don't realize there are many variables in play in any given sitution.

1. Osweiler may have made significant strides this year that made it clear that he was the QB they wanted vs. still being on the fence. This includes actually getting a chance to see him in games for the first time.

2. Just because some sports reporters state that Oz would have taken $5 million last year, doesn't mean he would have.

He would have taken a deal because it would have paid him $5 M THIS season instead of less than $1M.

He would have taken a deal because if Peyton hadn't gotten hurt Brock would have ZERO NFL starts at this point.

Play Manning and let Brock sit on the bench the entire season - that was the plan. So, nobody would have seen him play any significant snaps in the NFL and nobody would be offering him $16-$18 M. Or $12M either.

Once he started to get significant playing time and beat the Patriots and Bengals that's when his value started to go up.

Then when Kirk Cousins and Sam Bradford got stupid money, Osweiler's value soared into the stratosphere.

But, this was predictable - because it happens every single year.

Remember when Matt Cassel got a $30M, two year contract from KC? They even gave the Patriots a draft pick to trade for him. And McMoron wanted desperately to trade Cutler for him even up, but Belichick screwed him by dealing Cassel to KC first.

I'll let that sink in. Matt Cassel - 2 years, $30M.

And that was in 2009 when the going rate for QBs was much lower.

So, this madness has been going on for a long time. It's not anything new.

Cugel

03-05-2016, 08:51 PM

That was my argument in this board last off-season Cugel. Elway could have given him an extension for one season at his going value and had a whole year to evaluate...But now? Of course everyone said he would get no better offers...lol. Rumor is that the Jets, Texans and Rams are putting out feelers regarding Brock.

Oh, about the deal offered to Brock, I'm hearing it's a lowball deal barely worth the paper it's printed on...those guessing it's because lack of guaranteed money are spot on, his base for year one is all that is guaranteed, the rest is all incentive and it reads like Manning's, where the team can move on with no fiscal obligation. I wouldn't sign it either if that is the case. Elway needs to remember it's also about security for these guys, which is funny because we have fans who say players should get theirs but when it's Brock he's a jack@$$...hmmm.

If they only guarantee 1 year then the offer is simply an exercise in PR!

They want all the stupid fans to say "Osweiler turned down a perfectly reasonable offer" so they won't criticize Broncos management for losing Osweiler and winding up with some garbage QB like RGIII.

IF this report is true, that the Broncos were offering $10M with the rest ($5M) in "incentives" then that contract really ISN'T worth the paper it's written on and the Broncos have no illusions that Osweiler is going to sign it.

It's not a serious offer.

And if Trevor Seimian or RGIII wind up as the Denver starting QB, Elway deserves all the criticism he's going to get!

We'll hear from Osweiler's agen on Tuesday if that isn't true. He's going to rip the Broncos for not making a "serious offer" while the Texans and Browns engage in a bidding war.

But, I'm not 100% convinced that this report is true. It just makes so little sense that I won't believe it until they actually do it.

Then all the homers will all swing round and say that Osweiler isn't that great anyway.

Who knows? They might be right. But, without Osweiler I think their chances of repeating as SB champion are going to drop down to about 50-1 or 60-1 in Vegas - alongside teams like the Bears and Lions - who at least have QBs.

Lancane

03-05-2016, 08:59 PM

Like I said, that is what I am hearing...whether it's spot on or drivel altered from source to source who knows...but, it really is a crap offer if true.

ShaneFalco

03-05-2016, 09:09 PM

Frankly if CJ doesnt break those huge runs at the end of those games with Brock, then he would be lucky to get 10m.

Denver Native (Carol)

03-05-2016, 09:23 PM

The Broncos have 22 free agents, and they are not all named Brock Osweiler. Of course, they will not resign all of them, but there are some I am sure they want to keep; therefore, they can't throw all of their available money at Osweiler. It is obvious to me that his agent feels he has the upper hand, especially with all of the speculation that Peyton will not be back with the Broncos. No one can be sure that the agent would have accepted an offer from the Broncos to resign Osweiler before it got to this point. Don't forget - the more $$$$ Brock gets, the more $$$$ his agent gets.

Denver Native (Carol)

03-05-2016, 09:45 PM

Tned

03-05-2016, 10:01 PM

He would have taken a deal because it would have paid him $5 M THIS season instead of less than $1M.

He would have taken a deal because if Peyton hadn't gotten hurt Brock would have ZERO NFL starts at this point.

Play Manning and let Brock sit on the bench the entire season - that was the plan. So, nobody would have seen him play any significant snaps in the NFL and nobody would be offering him $16-$18 M. Or $12M either.

Once he started to get significant playing time and beat the Patriots and Bengals that's when his value started to go up.

Then when Kirk Cousins and Sam Bradford got stupid money, Osweiler's value soared into the stratosphere.

But, this was predictable - because it happens every single year.

Remember when Matt Cassel got a $30M, two year contract from KC? They even gave the Patriots a draft pick to trade for him. And McMoron wanted desperately to trade Cutler for him even up, but Belichick screwed him by dealing Cassel to KC first.

I'll let that sink in. Matt Cassel - 2 years, $30M.

And that was in 2009 when the going rate for QBs was much lower.

So, this madness has been going on for a long time. It's not anything new.

Ok, so at least we are clear, you are just making some VERY large assumptions and repackaging them as Cugel facts. Gotcha.

NightTerror218

03-05-2016, 10:09 PM

A couple more days and we will know.

A will make this point, guarentees have not been mentioned. 3 yr $45 M but $20 M guarentees is not bad. Can make that up with 2 years of $10 M. I have heard it is incentive laden contract.

Krugan

03-05-2016, 10:46 PM

Sadly, thats over paying.

On top of it, im not at all pleased with Peyton at this point either. When is courtesy to a guy a detriment to the others? right about now....

tomjonesrocks

03-05-2016, 11:22 PM

Sadly, thats over paying. On top of it, im not at all pleased with Peyton at this point either. When is courtesy to a guy a detriment to the others? right about now....

Completely disagree. The Broncos know what their move is on Peyton. The way Denver has played it is textbook. And Peyton taking every last day affects nothing.

Lancane

03-06-2016, 09:20 AM

Where are you hearing that the offer is a lowball deal?

From an old colleague, but even he'd tell you to take it with a grain of salt...sometimes things are altered as they pass from one source to another.

But if true Carol, then the likely hang-up is simply the guaranteed money which Denver can change with another offer but not change the overall total worth of the deal.

Valar Morghulis

03-06-2016, 09:33 AM

Lancane

03-06-2016, 09:52 AM

If after four years of observation and evaluation Elway is not willing to match what teams like Browns will pay....i don't see how that's us low balling him, that's Elway offering a deal that he think reflects value for money.

If Oz disagrees, then I know which side I stand on.

All origin teams lowball their contracts somewhat at first hoping it's enough that the athlete will accept. So it's nothing new, but in this case we're talking the most important position in sports. It could be that no one offers more then a couple million more and so the deal is then about spot on, or another team may guarantee 10 mil. more then the deal is not as much so, and he can allow them to match or accept the other. Just the nature of the business, the bad thing for Denver is lack of options because where they will draft and available quarterbacks outside that.

Northman

03-06-2016, 10:04 AM

If after four years of observation and evaluation Elway is not willing to match what teams like Browns will pay....i don't see how that's us low balling him, that's Elway offering a deal that he think reflects value for money.

If Oz disagrees, then I know which side I stand on.

Exactly. The last thing Denver wants to have is another Matt Flynn scenario. Elway and the Broncos have to do both what is best for them and what they feel is fair to Oz. If Oz thinks he is worth more and someone will pay it than great but that doesnt mean that Denver is low balling him. Thats just a ridiculous statement.

EastCoastBronco

03-06-2016, 10:06 AM

A little advice for Brock.
Tell your agent to go piss up a rope.
Take the money the Broncs are offering and ride this defence as far as it goes.
Then see what kind of money you get offered with a couple more Super Bowl rings on your hand.
See the big picture, Brock...

NightTerror218

03-06-2016, 10:09 AM

With Manning retiring official, a deal may come soon for Oz. Kinda of like setting up domino's and Manning retiring was the first one.

Rick

03-06-2016, 10:55 AM

Tned

03-06-2016, 11:13 AM

Exactly. The last thing Denver wants to have is another Matt Flynn scenario. Elway and the Broncos have to do both what is best for them and what they feel is fair to Oz. If Oz thinks he is worth more and someone will pay it than great but that doesnt mean that Denver is low balling him. Thats just a ridiculous statement.

Actually, the last thing they want is to find out when he's on another team that they had an Aaron Rodgers scenario. However, they are afraid of the Matt Flynn/Cassell scenario, which makes it very tough.

Northman

03-06-2016, 11:26 AM

Actually, the last thing they want is to find out when he's on another team that they had an Aaron Rodgers scenario. However, they are afraid of the Matt Flynn/Cassell scenario, which makes it very tough.

But, the chances of Brock becoming a Aaron Rodgers is very very very rare. History has shown that more QB's have either busted or become pretty average. I cant argue with how Denver is handling their offer because history is more on their side than a player going on to be elite, etc.

Cugel

03-06-2016, 11:27 AM

I like how certain members of this board, especially one who thinks he is so much smarter than everyone else that he lowers to insult people, sit there and make these claims that they KNOW we could have had Brock a year ago at 5-6 mil. How the **** can you say you KNOW this. Why the **** would Brock have been stupid enough to have signed on at 5 mil when he had a chance at more if he would have taken the chance that Manning would not last the year, which is exactly what happened?

Listen . . . RIck. You can shove the attitude now. I'M not the one making that claim.

Guys like Troy Renk and Mike Klis are the ones saying this this week on 104.3 the Fan.

"Hearing you quote a few journalists as the reason you KNOW this is laughable at best."

If you want to say "it's just a bunch of reporters" fine. Your level of ignorance is not THEIR level of knowledge since they spend their days talking to GMs, agents and Broncos officials FOR A LIVING.

Frankly, if lay people try and tell me about MY business I just laugh. Lots of idiots think they know more about my business than a professional. Same thing goes for these reporters. It's funny how much you can learn spending 8 hours a day doing something for 20 years.

GMs and agents will tell everybody what the market is for a QB who has promise, but zero NFL starts.

But, don't let reality in at any point. You're doing good with attitude and ignorance. :coffee:

Rick

03-06-2016, 11:36 AM

Listen . . . RIck. You can shove the attitude now. I'M not the one making that claim.

Guys like Troy Renk and Mike Klis are the ones saying this this week on 104.3 the Fan.

"Hearing you quote a few journalists as the reason you KNOW this is laughable at best."

If you want to say "it's just a bunch of reporters" fine. Your level of ignorance is not THEIR level of knowledge since they spend their days talking to GMs, agents and Broncos officials FOR A LIVING.

Frankly, if lay people try and tell me about MY business I just laugh. Lots of idiots think they know more about my business than a professional. Same thing goes for these reporters. It's funny how much you can learn spending 8 hours a day doing something for 20 years.

GMs and agents will tell everybody what the market is for a QB who has promise, but zero NFL starts.

But, don't let reality in at any point. You're doing good with attitude and ignorance. :coffee:

I am done with you, I really am. Most people who annoy me on boards just annoy me. I just can't stand your posts and am sick of your smug bullshit.

Welcome to the ignore list, only the second person in 8 years to have made it on that list.

Cugel

03-06-2016, 11:39 AM

The competitive offer extended includes an average annual salary of about $13 million over three seasons. (http://www.thedenverchannel.com/sports/broncos/broncos-make-3-year-offer-to-quarterback-brock-osweiler)The guarantees and incentives to enhance the deal are unknown, but the Broncos typically front-load the guaranteed money to create future flexibility. As reported Friday, Osweiler's offer exceeds the contract of the Los Angeles Rams' Nick Foles, whose $12.27 million average annual value represented a floor in negotiations.

We now see in general terms what the ballpark of the offer for Osweiler is.

And, sorry Lancane, it does NOT look like a "lowball" offer.

It looks like a 3 year $13M a year base salary and signing bonus, with maybe $2M or more in incentives, with much of the money front-loaded as a signing bonus.

The Texans might go over this, but it's not a low-ball offer.

I think the Broncos are going to have to put more guarantees on the table if they want Osweiler to stay. It won't cost them any more ultimately to give a 2 year guarantee, unless they think Osweiler is going to be cut after 1 season.

If you're going to commit that kind of money, you might as well commit and not try and weasel. That will only make sure Osweiler goes elsewhere.

The next thing we learn is that since the Broncos have made an offer, negotiations with Brock's agent will continue during the next few days, which means the Broncos will have a chance to make a better offer to address other concerns if needed.

Normally Elway has never negotiated with any player who hits FA without an offer. So, Danny Trevathan is 100% gone. They haven't reportedly made him an offer.

But, they are clearly prioritizing re-signing Osweiler over Malik Jackson, which makes sense. Malik is good but is he worth $14 M a year or $15M a year? When they are paying Derek Wolfe less than $10M? No.

The problem for the Broncos is that the Texans are likely to offer Brock something like $17 M a year. Cleveland seems to be stupid enough to want to over-pay Brock too, which simply to my mind shows that they are dumber than a big bag of rocks. They've got the #2 pick of the draft and can draft their Franchise QB and pay him maybe $4M or something and go out in FA and get a great defense and keep them around because they are paying their QB so little. Just like Seattle did.

But, not the Browns. They always have to do things the stupid way just because.

Tned

03-06-2016, 11:48 AM

But, the chances of Brock becoming a Aaron Rodgers is very very very rare. History has shown that more QB's have either busted or become pretty average. I cant argue with how Denver is handling their offer because history is more on their side than a player going on to be elite, etc.

Fully agree. The Rodgers scenario is unlikely, but they don't want to have invested four years, plus have no viable alternative, if he does become an elite starter.

The fact is, in this NFL, even a serviceable starter makes big dollars.

In my mind, the seven games makes this harder, not easier in many ways. The first couple games looked very promising, and then the next five, while he was solid, left many questions.

I don't envy Elway having to make the call about how high he goes, especially as they are the reigning SB champs with no starting QB and limited options in free agency.

Tned

03-06-2016, 11:52 AM

We now see in general terms what the ballpark of the offer for Osweiler is.

And, sorry Lancane, it does NOT look like a "lowball" offer.

It looks like a 3 year $13M a year base salary and signing bonus, with maybe $2M or more in incentives, with much of the money front-loaded as a signing bonus.

The Texans might go over this, but it's not a low-ball offer.

I think the Broncos are going to have to put more guarantees on the table if they want Osweiler to stay. It won't cost them any more ultimately to give a 2 year guarantee, unless they think Osweiler is going to be cut after 1 season.

If you're going to commit that kind of money, you might as well commit and not try and weasel. That will only make sure Osweiler goes elsewhere.

The next thing we learn is that since the Broncos have made an offer, negotiations with Brock's agent will continue during the next few days, which means the Broncos will have a chance to make a better offer to address other concerns if needed.

Normally Elway has never negotiated with any player who hits FA without an offer. So, Danny Trevathan is 100% gone. They haven't reportedly made him an offer.

But, they are clearly prioritizing re-signing Osweiler over Malik Jackson, which makes sense. Malik is good but is he worth $14 M a year or $15M a year? When they are paying Derek Wolfe less than $10M? No.

The problem for the Broncos is that the Texans are likely to offer Brock something like $17 M a year. Cleveland seems to be stupid enough to want to over-pay Brock too, which simply to my mind shows that they are dumber than a big bag of rocks. They've got the #2 pick of the draft and can draft their Franchise QB and pay him maybe $4M or something and go out in FA and get a great defense and keep them around because they are paying their QB so little. Just like Seattle did.

But, not the Browns. They always have to do things the stupid way just because.

You quote an article that says Foles contract was seen as a FLOOR in negotiations, and their offer is just a bit above that, so based on starting QB dollars and the Foles contract, Cousins franchise and Bradford contract, it is a low ball number. It's on the low end of what should be expected. We just had some people with the delusion that he could be signed for $7-9 million or some other silly low number.

Cugel

03-06-2016, 12:28 PM

You quote an article that says Foles contract was seen as a FLOOR in negotiations, and their offer is just a bit above that, so based on starting QB dollars and the Foles contract, Cousins franchise and Bradford contract, it is a low ball number. It's on the low end of what should be expected. We just had some people with the delusion that he could be signed for $7-9 million or some other silly low number.

While there might have been some people on these boards who said that, I've not heard any sports reporters from ESPN or 104.3 the Fan or 9News say that - possibly because it never made any sense to think Brock re-signs for $8M.

If the Broncos wanted him for $8 M they should have given him a new contract last year. Then he could have earned $8 M in 2015 instead of $1M and $8 or $9M in 2016 instead of $15 or $17M.

But, if you think that $16 or $17 M a year for Osweiler is the high end, then $15M including everything is probably "low-ball." Of course, Kirk Cousins and Sam Bradford have a lot more NFL experience than Brock, most of it bad true, but if you're considering signing Bradford or Cousins then clearly you must not think they're as bad as their record and are believing you can get the best out of them - in which case $19 M a year isn't unreasonable.

It's only "unreasonable" because TONS of people think Bradford sucks and that nobody should sign him at all. But, given their teams' assumptions (that they will be good in their system) then the offers make "sense."

But, this?

“Biting the bullet on a $19.953 million non-exclusive franchise tag was the most sensible option for the Redskins,” wrote Corry. “Placing a transition tag on Cousins would have opened the door for a quarterback-needy team with an abundance of salary cap room, like the Browns or Rams, to give him an offer sheet that would have been difficult for the Redskins to match. The exclusive tag was never a consideration, since it projects to $25.94 million.”

. . . .

Five years, $100 million with $60 million guaranteed.

This is certainly the type of deal that Cousins’ agent Mike McCartney is working towards and based on the quarterback market, it’s not a stretch to think he’ll eventually get it.

That said, the reported offers from the Redskins to Cousins’ camp have been $12.5 million per year, $15 million per year, and $16 million per year.

VonDoom

03-07-2016, 07:37 AM

Looks like the Texans will be contacting Osweiler today when the legal tampering period begins:

The NFL initiated its legal tampering window to recognize what was already taking place, with teams contacting agents for free agents well in advance of free agency.

So while the big news in Denver today will be the retirement press conference for Peyton Manning, there will be other quarterback news there as well.

Mike Klis of KUSA in Denver casually mentioned in a story about Osweiler praising Manning that Osweiler has a call lined up, saying “Houston is expected to contact Jimmy Sexton, Osweiler’s agent, during the tampering period.”

Teams can begin contacting agents and exchanging vague parameters today at noon, ET.

The Broncos are trying to hang onto Osweiler, offering a three-year, $45 million deal. And now that that bargaining position is known, teams such as the Texans know the mark they have to beat.

It’s clear why Houston would be interested, as they’re a a quarterback away from being a real contender with their base of defensive talent and a star receiver in the making in DeAndre Hopkins. And because of their success at overcoming their quarterback position last year, they’re picking 22nd, likely too low to acquire the kind of passer who could make an immediate difference.

So now Denver has more to do than hang the bunting and host a retiring legend today, as they try to make sure they have someone to replace him.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/03/07/report-houston-expected-to-call-brock-osweilers-agent-today/

VonDoom

03-07-2016, 11:01 AM

Ravage!!!

03-07-2016, 11:13 AM

I think we get a deal done with Oz. I love Elway, but he's known for coming in with lowball offers in hopes of making the deal cheap. That's an ok thing to do, and not criticizing. But what it does is gives room to 'move up' and improve the offer if needed.

I have a feeling that the sticking point of the current offer is the guaranteed money. Depending on the Houston offers, I'm betting we up the guaranteed cash to make the decision 'difficult' for Oz to simply look at the money alone.

Denver Native (Carol)

03-07-2016, 12:16 PM

Brock Osweiler appears to be the heir apparent to Peyton Manning in Denver. But the Broncos can't take his return for granted.

The Broncos have reportedly offered Osweiler a three-year contract worth more than $45 million. The deal is purported to include an average annual salary of at least $13 million, which is a competitive offer in this year's market. But if Osweiler, 25, officially files for free agency Wednesday, it may not be enough.

Most free agents are paid for past performance, but that's not the case with Osweiler. The 2012 second round pick has only attempted 305 passes in his career, with the vast majority of them coming when he filled in for the injured and ineffective Manning last season. Any team that signs Osweiler would mostly be counting on potential.

rest - http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2016/3/7/11168954/brock-osweiler-broncos-free-agent-rumors

Cugel

03-07-2016, 12:32 PM

The Broncos have plenty of options if they can't re-sign Brock Osweiler (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2016/3/7/11168954/brock-osweiler-broncos-free-agent-rumors)

What a title. And then when you read the story the "options" are in order of horribleness:

1. "This is a relatively thin quarterback group, with Ryan Fitzpatrick topping the list besides Osweiler. The 13-year veteran put up his best numbers with the New York Jets last season, throwing for a career-high 3,905 yards and 31 touchdowns. But Fitzpatrick's age, 33, and proclivity to turn the ball over may cause teams to shy away from entrusting their futures to him long-term."

The Jets have more money than the Broncos are seem determined to keep Fitzpatrick. If the Broncos did agree to pay him a bundle to lure him here, he's only a short-term solution and they'd still need to draft and develop a suitable replacement.

2. Chase Daniels, who spent his entire career as a little used backup to Drew Brees. We're already scraping the bottom of the barrel here.

3. The Three Horrible Matts. Matt Schaub, Matt Moore, Matt Flynn. Ok. We're officially "bottom is out of the barrel" here.

4. Trade for Colin Kaepernick: "Kaepernick's mobility would make him an excellent fit in Gary Kubiak's offense, which calls for read options and is reliant on a quarterback's ability to be agile in the pocket.

Kaepernick, 28, was dangerous in his first couple of seasons as a starter, combining his speed with above average arm strength. But then things began to unravel in 2014 under Jim Harbaugh and hit a nadir last season with Jim Tomsula as head coach. Kaepernick was benched in favor of the unspectacular Blaine Gabbert and was ultimately placed on injured reserve."

49ers GM has stated that he "absolutely" expects Kaepernick to remain in S.F. So it doesn't even look as if he's on the market. Tomsula didn't want him, and benched him, but he's been fired and Chip Kelly needs a QB. All the speculation about Kaepernick being traded sounds like a lot of B.S. if the GM says he's not being traded.

Makes more sense for Kelly to try and re-habilitate him than start over with a new QB. Chip only has a couple of years to turn things around in S.F. before they fire him and training a QB for the next coach to use doesn't sound like a good idea.

In short, it looks like Osweiler or bust.

5. RGIII "Reclamation Project." Pass. "Just say no." :coffee:

Not only is he a coach-killing failure, with attitude problems and a serious injury history, there's not even any certainty that the Broncos would be able to sign him. "Despite all of the distraction that clouded Griffin's final two years in Washington, he'll probably have a number of suitors this offseason. In three seasons as a starter, he threw for over 8,000 yards while rushing for 1,480 yards as well."

So, the Broncos would have to overpay for this turd.

If you're going to over-pay, then overpay for Osweiler, who at least hasn't failed yet!

Cugel

03-07-2016, 12:40 PM

Here's the latest from the Post (http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_29603894/broncos-want-qb-osweiler-back-exclusive-negotiating-window):

Osweiler, 25, can test free agency before making a decision. Multiple clubs feature quarterback vacancies or are seeking upgrades, most notably Houston, Los Angeles, Cleveland, San Francisco and the New York Jets.

When free agency begins Monday, the vault is expected to open for Broncos defensive end Malik Jackson and inside linebacker Danny Trevathan. The Broncos made a multiyear offer of about $11 million per season to Jackson, which has not been enough to persuade him from testing the market. Jacksonville is most mentioned as a favorite to land Jackson because of its available space under the salary cap. Considered by many to be the NFL's top available overall free agent, Jackson has been seeking $14 million to $15 million per season with a guarantee greater than San Diego's Cory Liuget's of $30.477 million. The Chicago Bears and Oakland Raiders are potential fits.

Trevathan predicted last month the Chicago Bears would court him aggressively in free agency. They are considered the front-runners, followed by Atlanta and Miami, both of whom employ coaches with ties to the Broncos.

The Broncos are working on multiple fronts, attempting to create more salary cap room through restructures for offensive tackle Ryan Clady and outside linebacker DeMarcus Ware. Clady has told teammates he expects to be back. Ware is among the most popular players in the locker room and finished the postseason strong.

Offensive guard Louis Vasquez, who struggled last year because of injuries, is another candidate to receive a pay cut.

About the only positive news in all this is that if the 49ers actually did sign Osweiler, they wouldn't want Kaepernick. But, their reported interest is just speculation which seems uninformed due to the statement by their GM that he expects Kaepernick to return. They may not be shopping him at all.

Malik Jackson is obviously going to get more than $11M a year, so he's gone. The Broncos can use the money to re-sign Osweiler and Von Miller which are much greater priorities.

This is the first report I've seen stating that Louis Vasquez might be asked to take a pay cut. He's due to earn $6.5 M this season and he hasn't been worth it. They might try and find a RG who is cheaper and possibly younger as they try and re-build their OL.

MOtorboat

03-07-2016, 12:44 PM

I would just like to acknowledge the journey Malik Jackson has made from late-round pick to most coveted free agent in the league. That's impressive.

LTC Pain

03-07-2016, 12:46 PM

I would just like to acknowledge the journey Malik Jackson has made from late-round pick to most coveted free agent in the league. That's impressive.

Agreed.

CoachChaz

03-07-2016, 02:26 PM

I would just like to acknowledge the journey Malik Jackson has made from late-round pick to most coveted free agent in the league. That's impressive.

I'll admit that I was not a fan at all of the pick at the time.

Lancane

03-07-2016, 02:36 PM

I'm hearing that the Jets are planning to make a push for Osweiler during the tampering period and that is why Fitzpatrick did not receive an offer from the club.

Joel

03-07-2016, 02:58 PM

Charles Robinson ‏@CharlesRobinson 6m6 minutes ago

Brock Osweiler and #Texans: #NFL source says Houston is expected to make competitive offer in both guaranteed money and per-year avg salary.

Charles Robinson ‏@CharlesRobinson 2m2 minutes ago

If #Broncos lose Osweiler, worth noting his agent, Jimmy Sexton, also reps #Jets Ryan Fitzpatrick, who could become bridge option in Denver.
See, this is what's messed up: The Texans won't re-sign Fitz since they already HAD and dumped him back in 2014, so the only way Sexton can get a commission on QB contracts with BOTH teams is to get Oz to Houston and Fitz to Denver. But whose interests would he REALLY be representing then...?

Oz, meanwhile, remains a 25-year-old athlete trusting his agent to look out for his interests, a trust probably well placed—depending on whom we mean by "his."

VonDoom

03-07-2016, 03:39 PM

Will Petersen ‏@PetersenWill 1h1 hour ago

Wow. @Edwerderespn just said he's been told Osweiler is not a fan on Kubiak's offense and feels Bill O'Brien's fits much better.

pulse

03-07-2016, 03:55 PM

Will Petersen ‏@PetersenWill 1h1 hour ago

Wow. @Edwerderespn just said he's been told Osweiler is not a fan on Kubiak's offense and feels Bill O'Brien's fits much better.

Honestly, this bit of news isn't all that surprising. Think about it. Osweiler spent his first three years learning under Manning and Gase. Kubiak runs a drastically different run and PA pass style of offense. But hopefully Osweiler takes the money and there is compromise.

MOtorboat

03-07-2016, 03:56 PM

That's significant.

dogfish

03-07-2016, 04:01 PM

he's a fool if he thinks he has a better chance of success in houston-- that's just stupid. . .

TXBRONC

03-07-2016, 04:03 PM

Honestly, this bit of news isn't all that surprising. Think about it. Osweiler spent his first three years learning under Manning and Gase. Kubiak runs a drastically different run and PA pass style of offense. But hopefully Osweiler takes the money and there is compromise.

I hope you're right Pulse but if this accurate then things don't look good for keeping him in Denver.

TXBRONC

03-07-2016, 04:04 PM

he's a fool if he thinks he has a better chance of success in houston-- that's just stupid. . .

I couldn't agree more.

chazoe60

03-07-2016, 04:04 PM

Apparently Brock was involved in some kind of minor altercation outside of a pizza place in AZ over the weekend. It looks like it's not a big deal, Brock was protecting his wife at one point and let's just say he steered (or maybe steared) a beastly creature away from his wife. The funny part was some 5'2" cartel member who came at Brock from behind (he conveniently waited until Brock had his back turned) and shoved him and tried to get in his face. The person shooting the video tried to make it seem like Brock assaulted some woman. All in all Brock handled it well considering. He handled it better than I would have. Some guy shoves me like that and someone is getting their ass kicked, it may very well be me, but it's gonna ******* happen.

There's video on this link if my link works.
http://den.247sports.com/Bolt/Brock-Osweiler-involved-in-confrontation-outside-pizza-joint-44134870

GEM

03-07-2016, 04:12 PM

Will Petersen ‏@PetersenWill 1h1 hour ago

Wow. @Edwerderespn just said he's been told Osweiler is not a fan on Kubiak's offense and feels Bill O'Brien's fits much better.

It's Houston, Brock. Good luck with that. You aren't a superstar, you need a supporting cast to help you out. JJ Watt doesn't play offense...

jlarsiii

03-07-2016, 04:16 PM

See, this is what's messed up: The Texans won't re-sign Fitz since they already HAD and dumped him back in 2014, so the only way Sexton can get a commission on QB contracts with BOTH teams is to get Oz to Houston and Fitz to Denver. But whose interests would he REALLY be representing then...?

Oz, meanwhile, remains a 25-year-old athlete trusting his agent to look out for his interests, a trust probably well placed—depending on whom we mean by "his."

That is not really accurate. Fitz is a free agent so when he signs with a team his agent will get a percentage. It doesn't have to be just Denver and Houston as players. It could be any team. Sexton is trying to get the players maximum money which is his job after all

MOtorboat

03-07-2016, 04:24 PM

It's Houston, Brock. Good luck with that. You aren't a superstar, you need a supporting cast to help you out. JJ Watt doesn't play offense...

That team is just missing a quarterback. Good receivers, a good running game and a playoff-caliber defense. I don't think it's as bad of a landing spot as us Broncos fans want it to be.

GEM

03-07-2016, 04:25 PM

That team is just missing a quarterback. Good receivers, a good running game and a playoff-caliber defense. I don't think it's as bad of a landing spot as us Broncos fans want it to be.

It's on it's way up, but it's been there before. Usually ends the same. Remember this is the same team that just got shut out at home in a playoff game.

slim

03-07-2016, 04:26 PM

That team is just missing a quarterback. Good receivers, a good running game and a playoff-caliber defense. I don't think it's as bad of a landing spot as us Broncos fans want it to be.

Houston and NYJ would both be decent spots for him.

Lancane

03-07-2016, 04:27 PM

he's a fool if he thinks he has a better chance of success in houston-- that's just stupid. . .

A playoff team who's weakest position was quarterback and he's a fool? Think about it for a min. If there is any truth at all to him preferring O'Brien's offense, which makes little difference the what I said about bad blood back when yanked against SD could be significant. He may well feel lowballed by Elway's offer atop that affront, it builds up, it could be a play to incite even more interest from Houston.

VonDoom

03-07-2016, 04:28 PM

It's on it's way up, but it's been there before. Usually ends the same. Remember this is the same team that just got shut out at home in a playoff game.

Because Hoyer was their QB. Mo is right - Houston isn't a bad option.

Houston and NYJ would both be decent spots for him.

Jets as well. Those teams both have great defenses (like us) and need a QB. It wouldn't be absurd to see us struggle next year even with a great defense while a QB puts one of those teams over the top. Is Brock that QB? That's the question, isn't it?

MOtorboat

03-07-2016, 04:29 PM

It's on it's way up, but it's been there before. Usually ends the same. Remember this is the same team that just got shut out at home in a playoff game.

Quarterback threw three INTs and fumbled once. I'm not saying they win that game, but it's not 30-0 without those.

GEM

03-07-2016, 04:31 PM

Quarterback threw three INTs and fumbled once. I'm not saying they win that game, but it's not 30-0 without those.

There is just always something with the Texans. It could be a good landing spot for him...but he's had 7 starts, it could turn out for them just like all the other failures at qb. If they want to pay him over $16 mil a year, have at it. He just hasn't earned that kind of pay day.

MOtorboat

03-07-2016, 04:32 PM

There is just always something with the Texans. It could be a good landing spot for him...but he's had 7 starts, it could turn out for them just like all the other failures at qb. If they want to pay him over $16 mil a year, have at it. He just hasn't earned that kind of pay day.

The seven starts is why if I'm the Broncos and he gets more money than established, playoff quarterbacks, let him walk.

GEM

03-07-2016, 04:33 PM

The seven starts is why if I'm the Broncos and he gets more money than established, playoff quarterbacks, let him walk.

Exactly. I don't think they have a choice. The offense didn't get the Broncos to the Super Bowl. He came in, managed it well, but the defense is more important to keep together.

MOtorboat

03-07-2016, 04:35 PM

Exactly. I don't think they have a choice. The offense didn't get the Broncos to the Super Bowl. He came in, managed it well, but the defense is more important to keep together.

He also didn't play well with the No. 1 seed on the line, either. I like Brock, but I don't like the Broncos paying $16-$17 million per year for him.

Simple Jaded

03-07-2016, 04:40 PM

Osweiler is a shotgun/spread QB coming out of college and first 3 years in Pro's, I can see him not being a fan of Kubiak's system, it's far more difficult to run.

Nomad

03-07-2016, 04:42 PM

I guess Brock does have his 'ring', and now, his focus is to play for whoever will pay him the most.

dogfish

03-07-2016, 04:45 PM

It's Houston, Brock. Good luck with that. You aren't a superstar, you need a supporting cast to help you out. JJ Watt doesn't play offense...

actually, they did play him some snaps at TE last year-- you know, despite all their other offensive firepower. . .

That team is just missing a quarterback. Good receivers, a good running game and a playoff-caliber defense. I don't think it's as bad of a landing spot as us Broncos fans want it to be.

meh! they have one really good receiver-- and an aged nate washington. . . the rest of their receiving corps is mostly scrubs. . . also, their running game is average at the very best. . . last year they were 15th in yards per game-- on a pathetic 3.7 yards per carry, which tied them for 28th in the NFL. . . their 7 total rushing TDs were tied for 24th, and they just cut their best RB. . . that's hardly a dynamic rushing attack. . .

not saying they can't get it together in houston, but it's not like it's an organization with a lengthy resume of accomplishments. . . what have they ever won, aside from the lottery when watt dropped in their laps? how many QBs have found any lasting success there?

GEM

03-07-2016, 04:45 PM

He also didn't play well with the No. 1 seed on the line, either. I like Brock, but I don't like the Broncos paying $16-$17 million per year for him.

I think out of the players out there, Fitzgerald would be my target. If it's a difficult offense, he's a pretty smart guy. Set him up to be a game manager. Prep Siemeon to take over, wr's are saying they love his throws.

Lancane

03-07-2016, 04:47 PM

The real problem for Denver is that it's a crappy market, it's loaded with spread quarterbacks who have struggled in pro-systems or those considered life-long jouneyman backups, atop that they own the last pick in round one if the draft.

Ravage!!!

03-07-2016, 04:47 PM

He also didn't play well with the No. 1 seed on the line, either. I like Brock, but I don't like the Broncos paying $16-$17 million per year for him.

but want to forget that he played well against BRADY and the Patriots?

Ravage!!!

03-07-2016, 04:48 PM

I think out of the players out there, Fitzgerald would be my target. If it's a difficult offense, he's a pretty smart guy. Set him up to be a game manager. Prep Siemeon to take over, wr's are saying they love his throws.

Prep the 7th round draft choice to be the starter? This is the plan...don't pay money, but lets hope the 7th round pick can be a starter.

GEM

03-07-2016, 04:49 PM

but want to forget that he played well against BRADY and the Patriots?

I don't think he said that. He's talking week 17 against the craptastic Chargers where he got benched for a 39 year old Manning.

Ravage!!!

03-07-2016, 04:49 PM

actually, they did play him some snaps at TE last year-- you know, despite all their other offensive firepower. . .

meh! they have one really good receiver-- and an aged nate washington. . . the rest of their receiving corps is mostly scrubs. . . also, their running game is average at the very best. . . last year they were 15th in yards per game-- on a pathetic 3.7 yards per carry, which tied them for 28th in the NFL. . . their 7 total rushing TDs were tied for 24th, and they just cut their best RB. . . that's hardly a dynamic rushing attack. . .

not saying they can't get it together in houston, but it's not like it's an organization with a lengthy resume of accomplishments. . . what have they ever won, aside from the lottery when watt dropped in their laps? how many QBs have found any lasting success there?

Could have been past coaches that kept them back from going further...... oh wait.

dogfish

03-07-2016, 04:49 PM

but he's had 7 starts, it could turn out for them just like all the other failures at qb. If they want to pay him over $16 mil a year, have at it. He just hasn't earned that kind of pay day.

The seven starts is why if I'm the Broncos and he gets more money than established, playoff quarterbacks, let him walk.

hopefully we can all agree on this part. . .

GEM

03-07-2016, 04:50 PM

Prep the 7th round draft choice to be the starter? This is the plan...don't pay money, but lets hope the 7th round pick can be a starter.

Prep, that means NOT this season. Get him ready behind another player. Spend the money on the DEFENSE who actually got us to and won the Super Bowl. Instead of overpaying a qb who could turn out to be a run of the mill who was made to look better by the defense who we are going to lose cogs because we overpaid the qb.

Ravage!!!

03-07-2016, 04:50 PM

I don't think he said that. He's talking week 17 against the craptastic Chargers where he got benched for a 39 year old Manning.

Yeah. I read that. But the suggestion is that he didn't play well in that ONE game with the pressure of winning the #1 seed on the line. I don't think the "pressure" was more than playing against Brady and the Patriots, where he played well.

Ravage!!!

03-07-2016, 04:52 PM

Prep, that means NOT this season. Get him ready behind another player. Spend the money on the DEFENSE who actually got us to and won the Super Bowl.

GEM, how many GREAT defenses have repeated going back to the Super Bowl? I know you've read this discussion on the boards, but this "we don't need an offense" reasoning is just very short sighted. The defense will NOT be able to continue that kind of production with no offense to help.

Simiean (however you spell it)... was not drafted to be a starter for this team. To put our hopes on that isn't a good plan.

Lancane

03-07-2016, 04:54 PM

I think out of the players out there, Fitzgerald would be my target. If it's a difficult offense, he's a pretty smart guy. Set him up to be a game manager. Prep Siemeon to take over, wr's are saying they love his throws.

Von Miller said that Brock reminds him of Peyton in the way they prepare and lead. Weeden got praised by players on two different teams this year and then stunk it up. Siemien becoming our next franchise quarterback is about as likely as Favre coming out if retirement to play for Denver, beat Manning's records and win another SB.

GEM

03-07-2016, 04:55 PM

GEM

03-07-2016, 04:55 PM

Von Miller said that Brock reminds him of Peyton in the way they prepare and lead. Weeden got praised by players on two different teams this year and then stunk it up. Siemien becoming our next franchise quarterback is about as likely as Favre coming out if retirement to play for Denver, beat Manning's records and win another SB.

So was Brady...we just don't know.

dogfish

03-07-2016, 04:59 PM

GEM, how many GREAT defenses have repeated going back to the Super Bowl? I know you've read this discussion on the boards, but this "we don't need an offense" reasoning is just very short sighted. The defense will NOT be able to continue that kind of production with no offense to help.

seattle was a stupid call away from going back to back primarily with their D. . . not saying it isn't hard, but for that matter, most great offenses don't repeat, either. . . it's just extremely difficult. . . we'll have a chance, though-- most of our best defenders are just now hitting their prime, and we have some very promising young talent waiting in the wings. . .

also, no one is saying "we don't need an offense". . . not wanting to overpay for a very unproven QB-- who showed a lot of promise, but also a lot of faults-- isn't at all tantamount to saying we don't need to improve on that side of the ball. . . and i will point out that an offense could quite well be no more potent than this years, but could still make it much easier on the defense by being more efficient. . . even if we don't score a lot, just stopping the brutal turnovers would go a long way. . .

don't get me wrong, i still hope we re-sign os. . . but all's not automatically lost if we don't. . . worst comes to worst, we've seen a number of rookie QBs play well in recent years. . . and i'm confident that GK and JFE will get the running game fixed. . .

Ravage!!!

03-07-2016, 05:01 PM

Well unless they do something with the offensive line, Brock is going to be no better than he or Manning was this season. I didn't say we don't need an offense. We'd still have a decent offense, Brock isn't going to be a great offense, he's shown in 7 whole games that he can come in and play pretty well. It's not like he's not talented, I've never said that.We just can't afford to overpay him.

But "over pay" is much different to us fans than the GMs. "Overpay" is speculative, and based on opinion. What one may consider "over pay" might not be 'over pay' to another. Considering the choices that Denver has, we might have to pay our young QB 16 million...and we DID draft this guy to BE our starter (if Manning couldn't go). So here we are, with the possibility of Brock being our starter. A lot of rumors flying around, as people are guessing on what's more important to Brock. Agents are letting rumors fly on "how Brock doesn't like the offense." It's all part of the "gaming" of the market.

Lancane

03-07-2016, 05:02 PM

So was Brady...we just don't know.

It's even rarer then defensive juggernauts winning a SB. Even finding a second round or third round gem such as Wilson , Brees, Montana and Farve is unlikely. As I stated earlier if it was so easy to find then the market would be as it is and all teams would have competent quarterbacks as starters and backups. It really nauseating as a fan to think Denver's offense could actually be worse next year with next to nothing promising.

Ravage!!!

03-07-2016, 05:06 PM

seattle was a stupid call away from going back to back primarily with their D. . . not saying it isn't hard, but for that matter, most great offenses don't repeat, either. . . it's just extremely difficult. . . we'll have a chance, though-- most of our best defenders are just now hitting their prime, and we have some very promising young talent waiting in the wings. . .

So you are discounting the fact that they have Russell Wilson behind center for that repeat??? Ok, but I'm not.

also, no one is saying "we don't need an offense". . . not wanting to overpay for a very unproven QB-- who showed a lot of promise, but also a lot of faults-- isn't at all tantamount to saying we don't need to improve on that side of the ball. . . and i will point out that an offense could quite well be no more potent than this years, but could still make it much easier on the defense by being more efficient. . . even if we don't score a lot, just stopping the brutal turnovers would go a long way. . .
Granted..getting to the Super Bowl is extremely hard.. PERIOD. I'm with you on that. Most of the time, I don't even talk about getting back to the Super Bowl next year (in fact, I don't thin I have)... I'm talking about being contenders on a regular bases from this point forward.

don't get me wrong, i still hope we re-sign os. . . but all's not automatically lost if we don't. . . worst comes to worst, we've seen a number of rookie QBs play well in recent years. . . and i'm confident that GK and JFE will get the running game fixed. . .

Agreed. If we had a top 10 pick I think we could draft a QB that could keep us afloat and keep the momentum running after the 2017 season. But we don't. We aren't moving into the top 10, and the rookie QBs playing in the last few years have been top 10 (other than Wilson)

Yeah, a guy like Fitz could keep us going....but isn't that what people bitched and moaned about Cutler? A guy that just "wins you enough to not get a good draft pick, but n ot enough to win it." I still keep reading that rubbish. So what would Fitz provide... Russell Wilson type production?

GEM

03-07-2016, 05:07 PM

But "over pay" is much different to us fans than the GMs. "Overpay" is speculative, and based on opinion. What one may consider "over pay" might not be 'over pay' to another. Considering the choices that Denver has, we might have to pay our young QB 16 million...and we DID draft this guy to BE our starter (if Manning couldn't go). So here we are, with the possibility of Brock being our starter. A lot of rumors flying around, as people are guessing on what's more important to Brock. Agents are letting rumors fly on "how Brock doesn't like the offense." It's all part of the "gaming" of the market.

It's an over exaggerated market...for a guy with 7 starts. Anything we pay him over $15 mil is going to be overpaid.

BroncoJoe

03-07-2016, 05:08 PM

Ravage!!!

03-07-2016, 05:10 PM

It's an over exaggerated market...for a guy with 7 starts. Anything we pay him over $15 mil is going to be overpaid.

I hear you, and I can see that is your opinion.

Simple Jaded

03-07-2016, 05:10 PM

It's an over exaggerated market...for a guy with 7 starts. Anything we pay him over $15 mil is going to be overpaid.

Anything over $12 MM is overpaying, I'm glad the Broncos at least made an honest effort by going up to $15 MM, but it's too much.

Ravage!!!

03-07-2016, 05:11 PM

I'm a fan of Brock, but if this is really what he's thinking, then see ya. Your coach (with a lot of help, clearly) just won the biggest game in the NFL. While utilizing a worn-down QB, and another one who never started a regular game.

WhoTF does he think he is? 7 starts, a 5-2 record with some great moments, but vastly average so far. He could be great, he could be nothing more than a serviceable QB or worse. I'd frankly rather the Broncos go in a different and less expensive direction then pay him one penny more than $12-14 million, leaving room to get others under contract.

He's not asking for elite money, and your 12-14 is just a low-ball offer that will get you n othing. If that's what you want, great. But where do you even get that number? Because it certainly isn't by looking at the market, which is what all pay is based on.

Nomad

03-07-2016, 05:12 PM

WoW! I don't think I've ever heard so much praise for the BRONCOS from NFLN than today. :lol:

BroncoJoe

03-07-2016, 05:13 PM

He's not asking for elite money, and your 12-14 is just a low-ball offer that will get you n othing. If that's what you want, great. But where do you even get that number? Because it certainly isn't by looking at the market, which is what all pay is based on.

Then goodbye Brock. He's a backup QB that got some starts. No one knows what he can or will be. A "prove it" deal is what he deserves.

I'm not the GM, but that's what I'd do.

MOtorboat

03-07-2016, 05:13 PM

but want to forget that he played well against BRADY and the Patriots?

He didn't play $16 million a year good in that game.

55 percent completion, 270, 1 and 1. Like I've repeatedly said, maybe he is worth that money at some point, but he isn't now. I don't think Denver should go any higher than what they've offered.

Ravage!!!

03-07-2016, 05:14 PM

Then goodbye Brock. He's a backup QB that got some starts. No one knows what he can or will be. A "prove it" deal is what he deserves.

I'm not the GM, but that's what I'd do.

Prove it deals get you nothing. The market sets the price, you can't just make up numbers. He was drafted to be the starter, by Elway.

MOtorboat

03-07-2016, 05:16 PM

Prove it deals get you nothing. The market sets the price, you can't just make up numbers. He was drafted to be the starter, by Elway.

No one is making up numbers.

BroncoJoe

03-07-2016, 05:17 PM

Prove it deals get you nothing. The market sets the price, you can't just make up numbers. He was drafted to be the starter, by Elway.

Paying him may or may not get them anything either. He could suck, he could be great. He's proven nothing yet.

If he leaves for more money, thanks for the memories, good luck and good bye.

GEM

03-07-2016, 05:17 PM

Prove it deals get you nothing. The market sets the price, you can't just make up numbers. He was drafted to be the starter, by Elway.

We'll see if Elway thinks he's worth anything higher than he already offered. History shows Elway doesn't get in bidding wars. He offers what he thinks a player is worth, if it's not good enough, goodbye.

Ravage!!!

03-07-2016, 05:18 PM

He didn't play $16 million a year good in that game.

55 percent completion, 270, 1 and 1. Like I've repeatedly said, maybe he is worth that money at some point, but he isn't now. I don't think Denver should go any higher than what they've offered.

We don't even really know WHAT was offered, do we? I ahven't seen the break down on how the guaranteed money was offered, or the salary break-downs. So we don't really have any idea what he's been offered.

This "he didn't play 16 million dollar good" is pretty ridiculous considering we are talking about his first 7 starts. Isn't EVERYONE looking to pay for the future? Isn't that what the draft is about? I mean, lets just pay them week-to-week based on their past performance numbers.

I know that you aren't saying that, and I get your reasoning for wanting to cap the number (obviously)...but lets be realistic and accept that Brock isn't setting the price.... the market is.

Ravage!!!

03-07-2016, 05:19 PM

We'll see if Elway thinks he's worth anything higher than he already offered. History shows Elway doesn't get in bidding wars. He offers what he thinks a player is worth, if it's not good enough, goodbye.

Yeah.. like I was saying, we don't know what he was really offered.

BroncoJoe

03-07-2016, 05:19 PM

Timmy!

03-07-2016, 05:20 PM

Have you guys seen his wife? Give him whatever he wants.

Simple Jaded

03-07-2016, 05:21 PM

I don't think he said that. He's talking week 17 against the craptastic Chargers where he got benched for a 39 year old Manning.

Getting benched is probably a huge reason Osweiler has not signed yet, or may not sign at all.

Is that's the case I wish Osweiler a lot of luck in Houston.

Ravage!!!

03-07-2016, 05:21 PM

Paying him may or may not get them anything either. He could suck, he could be great. He's proven nothing yet.

If he leaves for more money, thanks for the memories, good luck and good bye.

So then why pay anyone OTHER than vets, right? I mean, no one knows if we'll be getting "our money's worth." Perhaps everyone will just play on a weekly salary, and it will just vary depending on their play the prior game.

Point is, salaries are based on 'gambles' and speculations. Hopes and guesses.... as well as needs.

Ravage!!!

03-07-2016, 05:22 PM

He's 24. This is not his big payday. At least it shouldn't be, because he hasn't proven ANYTHING.

Clearly, IMO.

This woudln't be h is BIG payday, either. TOP money is well over 15 million a year. So yeah, there is still room for him to improve and get the BIG dollars with another contract.

MOtorboat

03-07-2016, 05:23 PM

We don't even really know WHAT was offered, do we? I ahven't seen the break down on how the guaranteed money was offered, or the salary break-downs. So we don't really have any idea what he's been offered.

This "he didn't play 16 million dollar good" is pretty ridiculous considering we are talking about his first 7 starts. Isn't EVERYONE looking to pay for the future? Isn't that what the draft is about? I mean, lets just pay them week-to-week based on their past performance numbers.

I know that you aren't saying that, and I get your reasoning for wanting to cap the number (obviously)...but lets be realistic and accept that Brock isn't setting the price.... the market is.

The market is 3 for $45 right now and it's been widely reported. I'm not playing the "we don't really know if that's the offer" game. It was likely leaked by his agent.

That's as high as the Broncos should go. And I think it's too much based on other quarterbacks who have had similar experience and what their contracts were. I understand he's worth what he eventually gets paid, but comparatively, it's way too much if the Broncos go any higher. And I'm not making anything up.

Ravage!!!

03-07-2016, 05:23 PM

Getting benched is probably a huge reason Osweiler has not signed yet, or may not sign at all.

I don' t believe that for a moment. I think they k now the market is really really low on talent, and Brock could be the best position to get multiple offers.

Ravage!!!

03-07-2016, 05:25 PM

The market is 3 for $45 right now and it's been widely reported. I'm not playing the "we don't really know if that's the offer" game. It was likely leaked by his agent.

That's as high as the Broncos should go. And I think it's too much based on other quarterbacks who have had similar experience and what their contracts were. I understand he's worth what he eventually gets paid, but comparatively, it's way too much if the Broncos go any higher. And I'm not making anything up.

My point is we don't really KNOW if the money is 3 for 15. If it works out as 15 a year, then I agree for the most part...although there is wiggle room. But if it's not really 15 a year, then that could be why it wasn't signed. We are always speculating that it's the player that is being the bad-guy, and that's beause we think they should just sign anything. HEll, there were some saying he should get 10 and nothing more.

BroncoJoe

03-07-2016, 05:28 PM

So then why pay anyone OTHER than vets, right? I mean, no one knows if we'll be getting "our money's worth." Perhaps everyone will just play on a weekly salary, and it will just vary depending on their play the prior game.

Point is, salaries are based on 'gambles' and speculations. Hopes and guesses.... as well as needs.

Right. And I hope the Broncos guess right.

I work for a salary and commissions. My salary is descent, but won't give me the type of freedom I want for me or my family. I think that's fair, and I don't think Brock has earned anything higher than $12-14 million. 3/45 is MORE than he's worth. Does that mean no one else will offer him more money? Nope. Plenty of people have left the company I work for for "better" offers. Funny how nearly all of them come crawling back.

Simple Jaded

03-07-2016, 05:28 PM

The market for Osweiler was set by the stiff in St Louis, $12 MM/per imo, if not the dude from GB that went to Seattle and couldn't beat out a 5-11 rookie.

Osweiler has started 7 games, it's only slightly less ridiculous than the argument we had about someone coming along and paying him huge money with zero starts...if someone wants to be ridiculous and pay him like Cousins/Bradford after 7 starts...let them.

Ravage!!!

03-07-2016, 05:31 PM

Right. And I hope the Broncos guess right.

I work for a salary and commissions. My salary is descent, but won't give me the type of freedom I want for me or my family. I think that's fair, and I don't think Brock has earned anything higher than $12-14 million. 3/45 is MORE than he's worth. Does that mean no one else will offer him more money? Nope. Plenty of people have left the company I work for for "better" offers. Funny how nearly all of them come crawling back.

We can't compare your work and salary to the NFL and sports. It's not the same, so the comparisons just fall flat and are lame.

As far as saying 3/45 is "more than he's worth"... doesn't make sense if someone else pays him more. Obviously, that is exactly what he's worth.

Simple Jaded

03-07-2016, 05:31 PM

I don' t believe that for a moment. I think they k now the market is really really low on talent, and Brock could be the best position to get multiple offers.

I'd be pissed and it would factor into my decision.

BroncoJoe

03-07-2016, 05:34 PM

We can't compare your work and salary to the NFL and sports. It's not the same, so the comparisons just fall flat and are lame.

As far as saying 3/45 is "more than he's worth"... doesn't make sense if someone else pays him more. Obviously, that is exactly what he's worth.

Right. Because no one in the NFL or professional sports has ever been overpaid, right?

I'll compare whatever the F I want to.

If Brock wants to chase the money, as opposed to playing for a constant contender - with the 2nd best record since the merger - good for him. If I were his Dad, I'd be advising him far different than you'd be. There's more important things than money in life. The money will come - if he proves himself.

Oh, and your condescending bullshit doesn't work with me. Take it somewhere else.

Lancane

03-07-2016, 05:34 PM

I'd be pissed and it would factor into my decision.

That is a huge possibility Jaded, one few mention.There could be bad blood between the club and Osweiler, getting a lowball deal could have been the icing on the cake as they say.

Ravage!!!

03-07-2016, 05:35 PM

I'd be pissed and it would factor into my decision.

I think the competitor would make you upset, but he circumstances surrounding that are different than most. If we were talking about any other QB on the roster (other than Manning), than I would agree with you. Considering Brock knew exactly what was going on since being drafted, and since coming off the bench to start while Peyton healed up.... I think it's a bit different.

MOtorboat

03-07-2016, 05:39 PM

My point is we don't really KNOW if the money is 3 for 15. If it works out as 15 a year, then I agree for the most part...although there is wiggle room. But if it's not really 15 a year, then that could be why it wasn't signed. We are always speculating that it's the player that is being the bad-guy, and that's beause we think they should just sign anything. HEll, there were some saying he should get 10 and nothing more.

It's the offer. Some are saying he should get $10, because comparing his situation to others who have received contracts in the past, the contract should be $10-13. That's not "making up" numbers. That's an educated comparison based on past contracts, which is typically how this works.

And I haven't said anyone is a bad guy in anything. If Osweiler wants more money and can get more money, than he should go get more money. I think the Broncos shouldn't go any higher. This is the business and I'm not making either party out to be bad.

Simple Jaded

03-07-2016, 05:41 PM

That is a huge possibility Jaded, one few mention.There could be bad blood between the club and Osweiler, getting a lowball deal could have been the icing on the cake as they say.

That's where I differ from Osweiler, $15 MM/per for 7 starts is a gift, a ridiculous ******* gift. I can empathize but only so far.

His entire tenure in Denver was a massive gift, if it's not good enough, peace out!

Lancane

03-07-2016, 05:51 PM

That's where I differ from Osweiler, $15 MM/per for 7 starts is a gift, a ridiculous ******* gift. I can empathize but only so far.

His entire tenure in Denver was a massive gift, if it's not good enough, peace out!

That is the thing Rav is stressing, none of us know the parameters of the offer. What if it was 10mil. a season and the rest incentive laden with little guaranteed, then that is a B.S. offer way below market. We have no clue, it's easy for fans to think they know it all, but in the end there are factors we are clueless about...I was giving you kudos for bringing one up though.

BroncoJoe

03-07-2016, 05:53 PM

That is the thing Rav is stressing, none of us know the parameters of the offer. What if it was 10mil. a season and the rest incentive laden with little guaranteed, then that is a B.S. offer way below market. We have no clue, it's easy for fans to think they know it all, but in the end there are factors we are clueless about...I was giving you kudos for bringing one up though.

As fans, I think we're giving a proven and successful GM in Elway the benefit of the doubt. I seriously doubt Elway would low ball him, and even if he did, what does that say about Brock and how the Broncos feel about moving forward with him?

I'll trust the Broncos front office before Ravage, you or anyone else on this board.

MOtorboat

03-07-2016, 05:57 PM

OrangeHoof

03-07-2016, 06:00 PM

Exactly. I don't think they have a choice. The offense didn't get the Broncos to the Super Bowl. He came in, managed it well, but the defense is more important to keep together.

Which is why I could stomach a year of Fitzpatrick. He's Harvard-educated, runs decently, mature enough to understand his limitations and can be patient waiting for his defense to win games. We have a window of opportunity with this D and, in the short term, the QB's job is no turnovers. Of the available choices, Fitzy is most likely to do that. He can play not to lose as well as any option out there.

slim

03-07-2016, 06:06 PM

Seems like it was a fair offer.

Nomad

03-07-2016, 06:12 PM

I usually don't follow the financial part of the BRONCOS, but Ian Rappaport (from NFLN) believes it's a low offer.

Lancane

03-07-2016, 06:14 PM

As fans, I think we're giving a proven and successful GM in Elway the benefit of the doubt. I seriously doubt Elway would low ball him, and even if he did, what does that say about Brock and how the Broncos feel about moving forward with him?

I'll trust the Broncos front office before Ravage, you or anyone else on this board.

I mentioned earlier per an old colleague that Elway might see Brock as a stopgap quarterback till they find that franchise QB they want. I do trust Elway, to an extent, but I also know he is a car salesman who does tend to be stubborn and rub people the wrong way which is proven. In the end those traits are also why he is a dangerous competitor to be respected.

I don't know why you feel so slighted by our opinions, I simply stated that most fans view the process and numbers differently then how it really is. As Mo stated, Elway is known for lowballing, he doesn't believe Brock's deal is or was, whereas Rav and I could see how it could be considering the going market. It's entirely opinionative and subjective, Mo and you could be right or vice versa.

Cugel

03-07-2016, 06:22 PM

Well, that's new and disturbing.

According to ESPN's Ed Werder, Denver Broncos free agent quarterback Brock Osweiler reportedly is not a fan of Head Coach Gary Kubiak's offensive system. According to Werder, Osweiler believes he is a better fit in Houston Texan's head coach Bill O'Brien's offensive system than Gary Kubiak's offense.
(http://www.milehighreport.com/2016/3/7/11174584/report-osweiler-is-not-a-fan-of-gary-kubiaks-offense)
Earlier this morning it was reported that the Texans planned on contacting Osweiler's people as the legal tampering period began today. So this report would probably give the Texans the early lead in landing Osweiler's services this offseason.

Not only that but Broncos have reportedly NOT upped their offer as of last night in the face of Osweiler's decision to test the FA market and the reports that the Texans are prepared to top the Broncos offer:

Ed Werder Verified account
‏@Edwerderespn

As of last night, source says #Broncos had not upped offer to Brock Osweiler (https://twitter.com/Edwerderespn) in effort to sign, prevent negotiations with other teams today

Well, all I can say is that Elway better have a Plan "B" because Plan "A" looks like it's about to hit the fan. :tsk:

Ravage!!!

03-07-2016, 06:33 PM

Right. Because no one in the NFL or professional sports has ever been overpaid, right?

I'll compare whatever the F I want to.

If Brock wants to chase the money, as opposed to playing for a constant contender - with the 2nd best record since the merger - good for him. If I were his Dad, I'd be advising him far different than you'd be. There's more important things than money in life. The money will come - if he proves himself.

Oh, and your condescending bullshit doesn't work with me. Take it somewhere else.

What condescending bullshit, you pompous ass? I was being straight up with you...quit trying to puff out your chest and get into a pissing contest purely because someone sees your "over paid" comment as not making sense. The only comparisons you have with Brock, is that you are both considered to be overpaid.

To YOU there is more important things than money, to a young guy that is in a business where "Respect" is looked upon by the amount on your check, it's not.

Lets remember that we aren't talking about Brock making your mediocre salary, we are actually talking about GENERATIONAL type income. So although you can TRY to compare whatever the "f" you want to, it is NO COMPARISON to reality. SO you might as well compare your desk job to flying to the moon as being the same thing.

TXBRONC

03-07-2016, 06:35 PM

hopefully we can all agree on this part. . .

While I think Osweiler would be the best option I see Denver paying him like he's an experienced veteran.

BroncoJoe

03-07-2016, 06:41 PM

I mentioned earlier per an old colleague that Elway might see Brock as a stopgap quarterback till they find that franchise QB they want. I do trust Elway, to an extent, but I also know he is a car salesman who does tend to be stubborn and rub people the wrong way which is proven. In the end those traits are also why he is a dangerous competitor to be respected.

I don't know why you feel so slighted by our opinions, I simply stated that most fans view the process and numbers differently then how it really is. As Mo stated, Elway is known for Flowballing, he doesn't believe Brock's deal is or was, whereas Rav and I could see how it could be considering the going market. It's entirely opinionative and subjective, Mo and you could be right or vice versa.

1st, Elway owned car dealerships. He was not a car salesman.

2nd, Who cares if he rubs people the wrong way? He just put together a team and coaching staff that won the Super bowl.

3rd, I shouldn't have called you out. Ravage and his high horse and alleged knowledge irritated me.

Finally, I don't think Brock is worth more than $12-14 million. It's my opinion - which I've stated numerous times.

BroncoJoe

03-07-2016, 06:47 PM

What condescending bullshit, you pompous ass? I was being straight up with you...quit trying to puff out your chest and get into a pissing contest purely because someone sees your "over paid" comment as not making sense. The only comparisons you have with Brock, is that you are both considered to be overpaid.

To YOU there is more important things than money, to a young guy that is in a business where "Respect" is looked upon by the amount on your check, it's not.

Lets remember that we aren't talking about Brock making your mediocre salary, we are actually talking about GENERATIONAL type income. So although you can TRY to compare whatever the "f" you want to, it is NO COMPARISON to reality. SO you might as well compare your desk job to flying to the moon as being the same thing.

Dude, get over yourself. You have zero idea what's going to happen, and we're all posting opinions on a message board. As to your statement re: comparisons between me and him, I don't consider myself overpaid. Did you miss the part that a large % of my income is performance based? You know, commissions? Your statement re: respect comes from the amount of money on your check is just as ridiculous as most of your other statements. Asinine. And, I don't have a desk job. The intent of my statement was that sometimes you leave a good position with a great company to chase more money. It doesn't always work out very well. It is a good comparison, regardless of your stupid analogy above. I'm sorry you're not intelligent enough to see the similarities between the two.

More than $14MM/year is too much. IN MY OPINION. I couldn't give a rats ass what you think of it. Clearly, that's where the Broncos - you know, who actually know more than everyone on this board combined know - think he should be. Maybe it's a bit low. I'd be disappointed if we went much higher than that.

BroncoJoe

03-07-2016, 06:57 PM

Elway has lowballed several players. He's not lowballing Osweiler. Once they got past $12 it couldn't at all be considered a low offer because no free agent quarterback with as little experience as Osweiler has ever received more than $12.

Examples? Not being a d!ck, just don't know what you're referring to.

And, even if he did, isn't that an indictment of how he views said player?

Simple Jaded

03-07-2016, 07:19 PM

A car salesman who dabbles in WORLD Championships in his spare time.

ShaneFalco

03-07-2016, 07:21 PM

:popcorn::popcorn:

MOtorboat

03-07-2016, 07:21 PM

Examples? Not being a d!ck, just don't know what you're referring to.

And, even if he did, isn't that an indictment of how he views said player?

Probably, to your second question.

Julius Thomas got a low offer. Demaryius' extension offer was low. I know there are others where I felt like he gave them a below-market offer. I don't think Osweiler's offer is anywhere near low, though. I think it's above average, even if the market gets higher because Houston or New York throws a shit ton at him.

Ravage!!!

03-07-2016, 07:22 PM

A car salesman who dabbles in WORLD Championships in his spare time.

But their "incentive based" income is the same.

Cugel

03-07-2016, 07:22 PM

$13M a year is not lowballing. Only guaranteeing one year is lowballing.

But, there's a ton of inside stuff that's just starting to come out today with Gary Kubiak's speech at Peyton's retirement where he talked about some of the tough decisions he had to make.

You have to wonder how much resentment Osweiler now feels about being benched? Is he really believing that the Texans are a better fit for him?

Lancane

03-07-2016, 07:26 PM

1st, Elway owned car dealerships. He was not a car salesman.

2nd, Who cares if he rubs people the wrong way? He just put together a team and coaching staff that won the Super bowl.

3rd, I shouldn't have called you out. Ravage and his high horse and alleged knowledge irritated me.

Finally, I don't think Brock is worth more than $12-14 million. It's my opinion - which I've stated numerous times.

Elway sold cars, he didn't just own the business and he actually use to coach the sales associates on demeanor, etiquette and so forth, he did so by example.

Who cares that he rubs people the wrong way? That would be potential free agents, incoming rookies or staff members dealing with, so it can become problematic and eventually backfire.

I understand, sometimes our opinions and therein discussing or defending those opinions gets tedious when not shared by some or understood by them in any form or if you feel someone is being overbearing with their own views.

On the last, you may be right but unfortunately the market was set by Bradford's deal. While I believe it can fall either way still, he is a better option then most at this stage considering the alternatives. If there was a better answer, a viable one without breaking the bank or relying on has-been gimps, I'd be all for it. Sadly I an none too excited about the future at the position outside Brock or trading up for Lych or Wentz in the draft.

TXBRONC

03-07-2016, 07:29 PM

A car salesman who dabbles in WORLD Championships in his spare time.

Boom.

NightTerror218

03-07-2016, 07:32 PM

3 year $45M is prob ways highest team friendly contract. But I think he will go higher at 3 years and front load to make sure not too damaging to cap.

He knows how important QB is and not willing to gamble on rookie and the ultimate unknown. He tried to get a contract done that was very team friendly. Cost of a QB is going up a lot these days. New contract would put him below middle of the pack pay wise, top 20ish.

I could see Elway stepping it up to make sure Oz is kept. Look at it from Elways view, you have a QB who can run the offense and move the ball well. He has been groomed for 4 years and a lot of time invested.

TXBRONC

03-07-2016, 07:42 PM

Tned

03-07-2016, 07:48 PM

Cugel

03-07-2016, 08:30 PM

Just tweeted out:

Jason La Canfora @JasonLaCanfora
(https://twitter.com/JasonLaCanfora)
(https://twitter.com/JasonLaCanfora)Hearing Broncos offer to Osweiler is actually $13M/yr for now. Team likely willing to go to $15m/yr. We'll see if Texans push them there

I can't believe you scooped me there! I came online to post this exact tweet and saw your post! :laugh:

I wonder what his authority is for "Team likely willing to go to $15m/yr." is.

According to multiple sources, the Broncos hold-up is guaranteed money. Only the first year of Osweiler's contract is fully guaranteed.

Since everybody knows that only the guaranteed money matters in the NFL, the offer for Brock is really $13M one year deal with some incentives that might take it to $15 M but offers exactly ZERO long term security.

If I were Brock NO WAY would I sign this. I'd rather take $12M a year or even $11 M /yr. on a two-year guaranteed deal.

WHat happens if you multiple things go wrong, injury, poor play, team struggles, etc. and suddenly your career is over or your value plummets? You have to lock in that guaranteed money while you can.

tripp

03-07-2016, 08:44 PM

I fear Oz signs with the Texans and fades into irrelevance,a bit like his former team mate Julius Thomas.

TXBRONC

03-07-2016, 08:47 PM

I fear Oz signs with the Texans and fades into irrelevance,a bit like his former team mate Julius Thomas.

It is possible.

Lancane

03-07-2016, 08:50 PM

I fear Oz signs with the Texans and fades into irrelevance,a bit like his former team mate Julius Thomas.

It's possible, it's also possible he puts up great numbers and they make it to the playoffs again and we face them in the post-season.

TXBRONC

03-07-2016, 08:54 PM

It's possible, it's also possible he puts up great numbers and they make it to the playoffs again and we face them in the post-season.

I would not like that.

tripp

03-07-2016, 08:58 PM

It's possible, it's also possible he puts up great numbers and they make it to the playoffs again and we face them in the post-season.

It's also possible they make the playoffs again as a 9-7 team, and it's possible Andrew luck misses the majority of next season due to another injury, but I doubt both.

That will be a tough division for jags Titans or Texans to win as long as Andy luck is healthy.

TXBRONC

03-07-2016, 09:04 PM

It's also possible they make the playoffs again as a 9-7 team, and it's possible Andrew luck misses the majority of next season due to another injury, but I doubt both.

That will be a tough division for jags Titans or Texans to win as long as Andy luck is healthy.

Luck is terrific quarterback but Pagano's is doing to give him offense that will take advantage of his skills.

Mike

03-07-2016, 09:22 PM

It's possible, it's also possible he puts up great numbers and they make it to the playoffs again and we face them in the post-season.

Anything is possible. But to me, he has been average to mediocre in his starts. I'd say, IMO based off of what I have seen, that there is a higher probability that he is just an average QB, decent backup, than there is him becoming a 2nd tier QB. He isn't worth $15mil based off of what he has shown.

I wouldn't mind keeping him for around $12-13, but I won't be disappointed if he goes and Denver can spend that $$ on defense.

Lancane

03-07-2016, 09:48 PM

Anything is possible. But to me, he has been average to mediocre in his starts. I'd say, IMO based off of what I have seen, that there is a higher probability that he is just an average QB, decent backup, than there is him becoming a 2nd tier QB. He isn't worth $15mil based off of what he has shown.

I wouldn't mind keeping him for around $12-13, but I won't be disappointed if he goes and Denver can spend that $$ on defense.

Except they won't spend it on defense Mike, maybe some but most agree that their focal point this off-season will be offensively according to most with inside sources. And just because Osweiler may go elsewhere doesn't mean they'll ink Trevathan, Jackson and Marshall. They could well end up paying similar money to Fitzpatrick or Schaub and trading multiple picks for a quarterback.

Simple Jaded

03-07-2016, 09:55 PM

I don't care if it's spent on Travathon, Jackson and Marshall, it can be Zach Brown, Nick Fairley and Marshall, especially if that means there's money left over for Russell Okung.

Ravage!!!

03-08-2016, 12:49 AM

I fear Oz signs with the Texans and fades into irrelevance,a bit like his former team mate Julius Thomas.

See... this is why it would be silly/stupid for anyone to sign a 1 year deal. It seems that 1 year makes you 'irrelevant'...even though JT was still better then every TE we had on our team.

Ravage!!!

03-08-2016, 12:50 AM

I don't care if it's spent on Travathon, Jackson and Marshall, it can be Zach Brown, Nick Fairley and Marshall, especially if that means there's money left over for Russell Okung.

and back to Madden..... yet still hasn't signed a QB.

Joel

03-08-2016, 04:38 AM

Except they won't spend it on defense Mike, maybe some but most agree that their focal point this off-season will be offensively according to most with inside sources. And just because Osweiler may go elsewhere doesn't mean they'll ink Trevathan, Jackson and Marshall. They could well end up paying similar money to Fitzpatrick or Schaub and trading multiple picks for a quarterback.
My jaw would hit the floor if Schaub EVER plays for Kubiak again (and scrape the floor if he ever starts for ANYONE again.) Imagine Shanny got another HC job, immediately returned to the NFLs summit, but lost his starting QB to retirement and backup to FA: Think he'd re-sign RG III just to lose TWO jobs over the SAME GUY?

Joel

03-08-2016, 04:45 AM

See... this is why it would be silly/stupid for anyone to sign a 1 year deal. It seems that 1 year makes you 'irrelevant'...even though JT was still better then every TE we had on our team.
Ho hum stats on a BAD team made JT irrelevant. Daniels produced about the same (i.e. 2 TDs less but 60 yds more) for FAR less cash. On a team that threw HALF as many TDs as the Jags, with about the same number of Ints. Smart money says JT gets at least 1 less TD in Denver (he only had 5 anyway) and Daniels gets at least 1 more in Jacksonville, so how would we have been better off paying about TWICE as much for a guy who's NEVER played a full season in 5 years of trying?

tripp

03-08-2016, 09:54 AM

Dreadnought

03-08-2016, 10:06 AM

Rather a TE that can stay healthy for 16 games than be injured for a portion of the season.

I still say Owen Daniels was a straight-out upgrade over the very soft JT anyways, and the fact that he was cheaper was just icing on the cake.

VonDoom

03-08-2016, 10:41 AM

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 33s33 seconds ago

Denver and Houston shape up as the two primary potential landing spots for free-agent QB Brock Osweiler.

Cugel

03-08-2016, 11:01 AM

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 33s33 seconds ago

Denver and Houston shape up as the two primary potential landing spots for free-agent QB Brock Osweiler.

Of course. Elway has zero choice.

The Saga of Brock Osweiler: A High-School Romance:

You take your girl to the big dance. You're not really sure about her. She's asked you before whether you're ready to "get serious and plan our future together" but you always put her off. Not really ready to commit. She's a nice enough girl, but you've got some questions about her. She might have a few short-comings. Do I really want to commit to her long-term? Am I ready for that? And is she really long-term relationship material?

But, then you get to the dance and you look around and GOd damn! There's some ugly looking girls standing against the wall! One of them's got a hair lip, one's got a raging personality defect and just punched a guy in the face who asked her to dance, and the rest are in various stages of short and lumpy.

And you think: "Damn! I better keep the girl I'm with! She might not turn out to be great, but compared with what's out there she's looking pretty good right now!"

But, there's a bunch of horny single guys at the dance, all eyeing your date. And then this rich guy from Texas and another one from L.A. and another one from Cleveland come over and start sweet talking your girl and you realize that, forget about finding a better option, you're going to have a fight on your hands just to keep the girl you've already got!

And you turn to her and say "you and me baby! I think you're awesome! Let's go steady!"

But she says: "not so fast! I asked you three months ago and you never gave me an answer. You made me wait all the way to the big dance, and now I'm going to explore my options! Rick Smith here from Houston says he's going to take me on an all expense trip to the Cayman Islands and buy me a car! I just might go with him!"

And what do you say? "I was planning to tell you tonight! You and I are going to the Caymans! All expenses paid. What do you say?"

And she says: "Well, what about the car? Is it a nice car? Cause Rick here promised me a Mercedes coupe!"

Moral of the story? If you aren't willing to lock her up early. If you wait until the big dance, it isn't about how great your girl is any more. The real question is going to be: "what are the alternatives?" Are they really any better? Or are you just going to wind up taking one of the hair-lip girls on that all expenses paid trip to the Caymans?

arapaho2

03-08-2016, 11:04 AM

Anything is possible. But to me, he has been average to mediocre in his starts. I'd say, IMO based off of what I have seen, that there is a higher probability that he is just an average QB, decent backup, than there is him becoming a 2nd tier QB. He isn't worth $15mil based off of what he has shown.

I wouldn't mind keeping him for around $12-13, but I won't be disappointed if he goes and Denver can spend that $$ on defense.

and how average did manning look behind our line?

passing yards in first 7 starts

brady.....1376
rodger....1664
OZ..........1821

keep in mind the other two came into the season as the starter and taking full reps all summer and practice as the starter

Ravage!!!

03-08-2016, 11:06 AM

and how average did manning look behind our line?

passing yards in first 7 starts

brady.....1376
rodger....1664
OZ..........1821

keep in mind the other two came into the season as the starter and taking full reps all summer and practice as the starter

Yeah.. but how does he compare to good QBs?

GEM

03-08-2016, 11:09 AM

Cugel

03-08-2016, 11:15 AM

Quit being overly dramatic. It's not his ability that's been questioned. It's the Broncos ability to pay him.

:rolleyes:

The Broncos are going to have to pay him GEM. Because what's the alternative? Trevor Seimian? And who is he?

8704
The Bearded Lady

Ravage!!!

03-08-2016, 11:26 AM

Quit being overly dramatic. It's not his ability that's been questioned. It's the Broncos ability to pay him. He's shown he can do some things in 7 starts, did he show enough to earn $15 mil/yr+? That's what is in question.

:rolleyes:

Well.. yes and no, right? I mean if his ability wasn't questioned, then the question of his pay wouldn't be a concern. So it's absolutely the concern over his ability that is questioned, otherwise the "just 7 games" wouldn't make a difference.

Really... those that are in favor of signing him realize that there hasn't been a large amount of film. But what is the alternative? This "we can win with anyone behind center".... is just silly, and I think you know that.

I've heard some say "its hard to win the super Bowl anyway, so lets just keep the defense together." Why? For what purpose does it do to 'keep the defense together"...if we aren't TRYING to make a run to the Super Bowl?

so there is the conundrum. The reality is that it's hard to get the Super Bowl, but even harder if you don't have a decent QB behind center. Just because we were one of the few to do it, doesn't mean we can't accept the realization that it's NOT something we will do again. So we know we MUST improve the QB position, and simply getting a 'guy' to put at the position won't do the trick.

Keeping the defense in tact, just for the sake of keeping it in tact, doesn't help anyone. Doesn't get us anywhere.

So although we might realize that Oz has a bit of negotiating hand, doesn't mean we simply ignore THE most obvious needed position on our team, and that position of need is the most important position on the football field.

Cugel

03-08-2016, 11:39 AM

Ravage is right. What did the '86 Bears or the 2001 Ravens or the 2003 Bucs or the 2014-15 Seahawks do? All those teams had great defenses the next year after their SB championship seasons, but they failed to repeat.

In fact the only one of those teams that even went back to the SB was the Seahawks, and they had a pretty good offense with a top 10 QB in Russell Wilson and a power running attack with Marshawn Lynch. They were also able to re-sign virtually their entire defense: Bobby Wagner, Richard Sherman, Earl Thomas, Kam Chancellor, Cliff Avril, Michael Bennett. . . . because they were paying Wilson less than $1M a year on his rookie deal. Yet, they still didn't win it again (at least not yet, they could do it this season of course).

The Broncos are going to lose Danny Trevathan and David Bruton. They have not even made offers to those FAs. Malik Jackson has been offered $11M (which is already $2M a year more than Derek Wolfe got) and he's expected to get offers of $14-$15M a year with a much bigger guarantee. There's no way he's staying. He's already made noises about going elsewhere for more money. He's got the SB ring. Now he wants the big pay-day.

DeMarcus Ware will be 34 this season. He's fighting a chronic bulging disk problem in his back and only played 9 regular season games. This might be his last season. And he's irreplaceable. Yes, they have players behind him like Shane Ray, but DeMarcus is a Hall of Fame player and a team leader. When he goes it's a huge blow to this defense make no mistake.

Other guys will become FAs next year. Are they going to keep Aquib Talib and pay him $12M in 2017? There are a ton of questions like that.

This defense is already unravelling and it will only get worse. The defense will never be as good as it was in 2015.

Which means the offense will need to get progressively better for the Broncos to repeat. And that means getting a good to great QB and rebuilding the OL into a great blocking line, etc.

They can't expect to win with some stiff at QB. If they're going to over-pay some guy, better they over-pay Osweiler than 33 year old Ryan Fitzpatrick or RGIII, or some of the other riff-raff who are floating about.

dogfish

03-08-2016, 11:54 AM

lol! just give him thirty a year and be done with it, guys. . . we just have NO CHOICE!

Slick

03-08-2016, 12:01 PM

I hope Brock signs somewhere else just so I can watch Ravage have a melt down.

Cugel

03-08-2016, 12:06 PM

I hope Brock signs somewhere else just so I can watch Ravage have a melt down.

Well, that will be great. And will you also be happy if Ravage has a melt-down and then the Broncos win 7 or 8 games with Trevor Seimian as their starting QB?

Because I don't think that's quite so funny. :coffee:

Cugel

03-08-2016, 12:07 PM

lol! just give him thirty a year and be done with it, guys. . . we just have NO CHOICE!

Just really, really dumb. Nobody is going to offer Brock $30M. They ARE going to offer him $15-17M.

The Broncos can't afford $30M. They CAN afford $15M guaranteed. That's what we're talking about.

LTC Pain

03-08-2016, 12:13 PM

ESPN’s Adam Schefter said on “SportsCenter” Tuesday that Osweiler has narrowed his decision down to the Broncos and Houston Texans. Schefter said there is now a “battle between those two teams” to sign the 25-year-old.

http://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/report_brock_osweiler_to_choose_between_broncos_te xans/s1_127_20448478

arapaho2

03-08-2016, 12:13 PM

Well.. yes and no, right? I mean if his ability wasn't questioned, then the question of his pay wouldn't be a concern. So it's absolutely the concern over his ability that is questioned, otherwise the "just 7 games" wouldn't make a difference.

Really... those that are in favor of signing him realize that there hasn't been a large amount of film. But what is the alternative? This "we can win with anyone behind center".... is just silly, and I think you know that.

I've heard some say "its hard to win the super Bowl anyway, so lets just keep the defense together." Why? For what purpose does it do to 'keep the defense together"...if we aren't TRYING to make a run to the Super Bowl?

so there is the conundrum. The reality is that it's hard to get the Super Bowl, but even harder if you don't have a decent QB behind center. Just because we were one of the few to do it, doesn't mean we can't accept the realization that it's NOT something we will do again. So we know we MUST improve the QB position, and simply getting a 'guy' to put at the position won't do the trick.

Keeping the defense in tact, just for the sake of keeping it in tact, doesn't help anyone. Doesn't get us anywhere.

So although we might realize that Oz has a bit of negotiating hand, doesn't mean we simply ignore THE most obvious needed position on our team, and that position of need is the most important position on the football field.

its amazing how many don't grasp this

Ravage!!!

03-08-2016, 12:15 PM

lol! just give him thirty a year and be done with it, guys. . . we just have NO CHOICE!

Nice hyperbole and just not giving the discussion any credence.

I'm not just give him anything he wants position. I'm just looking at it as "where is the line." Is there a huge difference between 13 and 15? No. Would I really want to put my team in a "holy shit who we get now" position for 2 million at the QB position? No. Do I REALLY think our team is going to fall in to this "cap hell" if we sign Brock for 15 over the 13?? No.

So I'm not going to say "give him the 30 if he wants it".. I'm also realizing that the QB position is the BASE for every football franchise in the NFL. You either have it, or you don't, and when you don't... you rarely will ever have a chance at the Lombardi.

I get that Brock has the choices, and we ads fans seem to hate when a player has choices and they don't just JUMP at the chance to be a Bronco. RIght now, Elway is throwing out low-ball offers of 13 in hopes of getting a cheap deal. He's tried this before, so it's certainly his MO. But I think a deal gets done and I think it's around 15 with a chunk up-front.

Mike

03-08-2016, 12:16 PM

Just really, really dumb. Nobody is going to offer Brock $30M. They ARE going to offer him $15-17M.

The Broncos can't afford $30M. They CAN afford $15M guaranteed. That's what we're talking about.

He hasn't proven that he is worth that. It's better to spend that money upgrading the team. Rebuild the oline and keeping the defense as whole as possible have to be the primary goal. I like Osweiller and would like to see what he could do with a good oline, but he just hasn't proven to be worth overspending for. I would gladly take a stopgap QB, working the draft, and fixing the oline over paying too much on an unknown quantity and hamstringing the team down the line.

And I don't give a shit what other teams are paying for scrubs...those teams usually suck so do you want to use that as an argument.

Ravage!!!

03-08-2016, 12:19 PM

I hope Brock signs somewhere else just so I can watch Ravage have a melt down.

You'll be disappointed. I won't have a melt down, but when I'm watching you bitch and bitch at our QB play, you can pat yourself on the back and be thankful for all that Broncos money that was saved.

I'll be disappointed that the Super Bowl Champions will be trotting out crap behind center... with no real change in sight.

Cugel

03-08-2016, 12:20 PM

He hasn't proven that he is worth that. It's better to spend that money upgrading the team. Rebuild the oline and keeping the defense as whole as possible have to be the primary goal. I like Osweiller and would like to see what he could do with a good oline, but he just hasn't proven to be worth overspending for. I would gladly take a stopgap QB, working the draft, and fixing the oline over paying too much on an unknown quantity and hamstringing the team down the line.

And I don't give a shit what other teams are paying for scrubs...those teams usually suck so do you want to use that as an argument.

Congratulations! Now your team is 7-9! No Super Bowl for you! Go to the back of the line. :coffee:

Mike

03-08-2016, 12:22 PM

Congratulations! Now your team is 7-9! No Super Bowl for you! Go to the back of the line. :coffee:

We can't all be as smart as you, Cugel.

Cugel

03-08-2016, 12:24 PM

You'll be disappointed. I won't have a melt down, but when I'm watching you bitch and bitch at our QB play, you can pat yourself on the back and be thankful for all that Broncos money that was saved.

I'll be disappointed that the Super Bowl Champions will be trotting out crap behind center... with no real change in sight.

These short-sighted fans just can't understand this.

The defense is not going to be as good because they are losing some guys, some guys will simply be older and won't have as good seasons, other teams will study and game plan how to attack your defense, and the locker room chemistry will never be quite the same again.

We've seen this over and over all through NFL history.

But, the fans just imagine you pay everybody, put the defense in a bottle and it's exactly the same as it was in the SB. Wrong. Just wrong.

Even if you kept every single player on the defense it still wouldn't be the same. Exhibit "A" - the 2014-15 Seahawks. They kept everybody of consequence, I can't think of a single really good player they lost, but still gave up 31 points to Carolina in the first half in the playoffs. That's not a dominating performance.

So, the OFFENSE is going to have to be a lot better than it was in 2015. And that's not happening without a good QB. And Trevor Seimian or some other scrub is not a "good QB."

Cugel

03-08-2016, 12:26 PM

We can't all be as smart as you, Cugel.

But people can easily be smarter than you Mike. :wave:

dogfish

03-08-2016, 12:26 PM

Nice hyperbole and just not giving the discussion any credence.

I'm not just give him anything he wants position. I'm just looking at it as "where is the line." Is there a huge difference between 13 and 15? No. Would I really want to put my team in a "holy shit who we get now" position for 2 million at the QB position? No. Do I REALLY think our team is going to fall in to this "cap hell" if we sign Brock for 15 over the 13?? No.

so where is the line? 15? 17? 20?

either way, we'll know in a day or two, so i'm not going to spend too much time typing about the possibilities. . .

Mike

03-08-2016, 12:27 PM

But people can easily be smarter than you Mike. :wave:

That's really not much to hang your hat on though, but congratz....you win the internet.

Northman

03-08-2016, 12:28 PM

Ravage!!!

03-08-2016, 01:11 PM

No offense but its not like Brock is any better at this point than what is out there. I would like to keep him but its not like Brock came in and lit the world on fire this past year.

I think he is better, and I know he has as much (if not more) potential than practically EVERYONE available. To say he's not "at this point" is like saying he's as good as Wilson "at this point." Meaning, if you want to tell me there hasn't been enough video to tell you he's not worth 15 million, then you can't tell me there's enough video to tell you that he's not better than anyone else out there.

Denver Native (Carol)

03-08-2016, 03:19 PM

interesting - from article:

NFL Media has reported that the Broncos have offered the 25-year-old Osweiler a three-year contract worth up to $45 million
but that Osweiler will not accept it since he would not be able to renegotiate if he excels in 2016. NFL Media’s Ian Rapoport adds that the Houston Texans are viewed as a legitimate threat to compete with Denver for Osweiler’s services.

full article - http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/brock-osweiler-denver-broncos-houston-texans-free-agent-contract-030816

I don't know if this is coming from Osweiler's agent, or from Osweiler.

GEM

03-08-2016, 03:26 PM

They should give him the ability to renegotiate if he's successful. That does sound a bit on the low balling side of things.

BroncoJoe

03-08-2016, 03:30 PM

They should give him the ability to renegotiate if he's successful. That does sound a bit on the low balling side of things.

Russell Wilson won a Super Bowl with a pretty measly salary. Didn't see him griping. Brock hasn't proven anything yet.

Before Ravage skewers me, I like the kid, and hope we can re-sign him. I just don't want the Broncos to mortgage their future on a player that is relatively unproven. He had a couple nice games, but was pretty average during his 7 starts.

Denver Native (Carol)

03-08-2016, 03:32 PM

They should give him the ability to renegotiate if he's successful. That does sound a bit on the low balling side of things.

I feel what they offered him for 3 years is a very good contract for only starting 7 regular season games. I could see where he would want to renegotiate if they offered him a considerably lower amount for 3 years.

GEM

03-08-2016, 03:34 PM

Russell Wilson won a Super Bowl with a pretty measly salary. Didn't see him griping. Brock hasn't proven anything yet.

Before Ravage skewers me, I like the kid, and hope we can re-sign him. I just don't want the Broncos to mortgage their future on a player that is relatively unproven. He had a couple nice games, but was pretty average during his 7 starts.

I'm not saying mortgage, I'm saying at least leave it open to possibility that if he does prove himself, he is able to renegotiate.

BroncoWave

03-08-2016, 03:38 PM

Russell Wilson won a Super Bowl with a pretty measly salary. Didn't see him griping. Brock hasn't proven anything yet.

Before Ravage skewers me, I like the kid, and hope we can re-sign him. I just don't want the Broncos to mortgage their future on a player that is relatively unproven. He had a couple nice games, but was pretty average during his 7 starts.

Russel Wilson was still early in his rookie deal when he won the title. Apples and oranges comparison. When his contract did come up, he got over 21 million a year.

BroncoJoe

03-08-2016, 03:43 PM

Russel Wilson was still early in his rookie deal when he won the title. Apples and oranges comparison. When his contract did come up, he got over 21 million a year.

He played two years. 32+ games including playoffs.. You're right - it is apples and oranges because he actually proved something before getting a nice contract.

NightTerror218

03-08-2016, 03:45 PM

He played two years. 32+ games including playoffs.. You're right - it is apples and oranges because he actually proved something before getting a nice contract.

Also different between a short term and long term contract with good money.

Oz is not getting a 5 year contract.

Denver Native (Carol)

03-08-2016, 03:49 PM

If Oz's agent or Oz himself want to renegotiate if Oz excels in 2016, he had best be open for the Broncos to want to renegotiate the figure down if he has a crap year in 2016.

VonDoom

03-08-2016, 04:09 PM

If Oz's agent or Oz himself want to renegotiate if Oz excels in 2016, he had best be open for the Broncos to want to renegotiate the figure down if he has a crap year in 2016.

I look at it like this - from what we've heard, Oz signs with either us or Houston. I would guess it's a three year deal, MAYBE four, but three for $45 or so sounds like where it's going to be. As I've said, the guaranteed money will be the issue. Let's assume he's guaranteed something like $25 million - that basically locks him in for two years. After those two years, one of the parties involved is likely going to want to change the deal anyway. If Oz is amazing, he will want an extension that pays him $20+ million for five years or more. If he sucks, we would cut him with no major penalty.

Basically, this "renegotiation" will probably happen, but it would be after 2017, not 2016. I think anything we're hearing in the media right now about what Brock wants is pure speculation, probably planted to drive up his price. We should know more by this time tomorrow.

BroncoWave

03-08-2016, 04:14 PM

He played two years. 32+ games including playoffs.. You're right - it is apples and oranges because he actually proved something before getting a nice contract.

It doesn't really matter what you prove when it comes to getting a contract. What matters is what the market dictates. If the market is dictating that Brock get 15 or even 17 million a year, he has every right to ask that from Denver or to sign elsewhere if Denver won't pay it.

Northman

03-08-2016, 04:15 PM

I think he is better, and I know he has as much (if not more) potential than practically EVERYONE available. To say he's not "at this point" is like saying he's as good as Wilson "at this point." Meaning, if you want to tell me there hasn't been enough video to tell you he's not worth 15 million, then you can't tell me there's enough video to tell you that he's not better than anyone else out there.

So than that would be a no. lol

Unfortunately since neither one of us really knows you have to go by the short sample size that we have and right now it says he isnt worth the extra money. Its not like Brock came out of the box and lit it up and that is what you have to base the money on so right now Denver is actually offering more than he really deserves at this moment. You may think he is better but that doesnt make it so in reality.

BroncoWave

03-08-2016, 04:18 PM

Russell Wilson won a Super Bowl with a pretty measly salary. Didn't see him griping. Brock hasn't proven anything yet.

Before Ravage skewers me, I like the kid, and hope we can re-sign him. I just don't want the Broncos to mortgage their future on a player that is relatively unproven. He had a couple nice games, but was pretty average during his 7 starts.

To further answer this, when has Brock "griped"? If it happened, I missed it. All he is trying to do is get the best possible contract he can. Given that he has two teams very interested in his services, there is nothing wrong with him using them as leverage against each other to get the best deal he can.

Northman

03-08-2016, 04:23 PM

BroncoWave

03-08-2016, 04:24 PM

I dont think it really is about what the market dictates. The cold reality is some teams get really desperate and sign guys to contracts that they simply are not worth (see Matt Flynn) so i would agree with Joe that Wilson had already proved his worth after 32 games. For Brock, the sample size is just not enough to warrant throwing a lot of money at him but it wont stop another team from going all in out of desperation.

I'm simply speaking from Brock's perspective. He is well within his rights to try to get as much as the market will pay him, and I don't see why anyone would fault him for that.

BroncoJoe

03-08-2016, 04:26 PM

It doesn't really matter what you prove when it comes to getting a contract. What matters is what the market dictates. If the market is dictating that Brock get 15 or even 17 million a year, he has every right to ask that from Denver or to sign elsewhere if Denver won't pay it.

I agree. I also think it's stupid. I'm happy if Brock can get a ton of temporary money playing somewhere else for a few years. What he doesn't understand is that those few years at a higher salary don't outweigh a decade of playing (and eventually making more money) for a constant/consistent contender. There have been plenty of very good QB's that went to shit teams and could never get beyond the stigma of being a relative "failure".

Either way, I'm tired of talking about it. I think Brock is on the verge of making a life changing decision. I don't think he's a bad QB - we just don't know. I do know that all the pieces are here with the Broncos for him to succeed. Who knows what is going to happen in Houston, or somewhere else. Did I mention that since the merger in 1970, the Broncos have the 2nd best record in the NFL?

I just think he'd be really dumb to risk a long term payday for a short term payday, and potentially be washed out of the league within the next few years.

slim

03-08-2016, 04:27 PM

interesting - from article:

full article - http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/brock-osweiler-denver-broncos-houston-texans-free-agent-contract-030816

I don't know if this is coming from Osweiler's agent, or from Osweiler.

This doesn't really hold water. If that is all he's concerned about, then he could counter/take a 2 year deal. If he proves himself in year one, they will go out of their way to lock him up long term.

BroncoWave

03-08-2016, 04:28 PM

I agree. I also think it's stupid. I'm happy if Brock can get a ton of temporary money playing somewhere else for a few years. What he doesn't understand is that those few years at a higher salary don't outweigh a decade of playing (and eventually making more money) for a constant/consistent contender. There have been plenty of very good QB's that went to shit teams and could never get beyond the stigma of being a relative "failure".

Either way, I'm tired of talking about it. I think Brock is on the verge of making a life changing decision. I don't think he's a bad QB - we just don't know. I do know that all the pieces are here with the Broncos for him to succeed. Who knows what is going to happen in Houston, or somewhere else. Did I mention that since the merger in 1970, the Broncos have the 2nd best record in the NFL?

I just think he'd be really dumb to risk a long term payday for a short term payday, and potentially be washed out of the league within the next few years.

FWIW, I don't think Houston is a shit franchise at all. They made the playoffs with HORRIBLE QB play last year. They could be a QB away from being a legit contender. It would be one thing if Brock were considering the Browns, but I think both Houston and Denver would be great fits for him and I wouldn't fault him for picking either one.

BroncoJoe

03-08-2016, 04:30 PM

I'm simply speaking from Brock's perspective. He is well within his rights to try to get as much as the market will pay him, and I don't see why anyone would fault him for that.

I didn't know you were BFF's.

BroncoJoe

03-08-2016, 04:31 PM

FWIW, I don't think Houston is a shit franchise at all. They made the playoffs with HORRIBLE QB play last year. They could be a QB away from being a legit contender. It would be one thing if Brock were considering the Browns, but I think both Houston and Denver would be great fits for him and I wouldn't fault him for picking either one.

Like I've said 1,000 times. I am a Broncos fan. I couldn't give a rats ass about any other team, or their players. If Brock leaves, he is dead to me and I would absolutely fault him for leaving.

I'd also love to see us play the Texans, and have Von unleash his distaine for Brock leaving this organization.

BroncoWave

03-08-2016, 04:32 PM

Like I've said 1,000 times. I am a Broncos fan. I couldn't give a rats ass about any other team, or their players. If Brock leaves, he is dead to me and I would absolutely fault him for leaving.

Ok? You not giving a shit about other teams doesn't make my point wrong.

Northman

03-08-2016, 04:32 PM

I'm simply speaking from Brock's perspective. He is well within his rights to try to get as much as the market will pay him, and I don't see why anyone would fault him for that.

I dont think anyone really faults him for it but because people do like the kid and want him to stay they do feel (as Elway has pointed out as well) that the situation is much better for Brock if he stays in Denver. But, if the reports are true that he isnt big on Kubes system than i think he has pretty much made up his mind and is just seeing if Denver will spend more money which i hope they dont. If Brock wants his payday now than he is more than right to take it, but it doesnt mean anyone has to really like it.

BroncoJoe

03-08-2016, 04:38 PM

Ok? You not giving a shit about other teams doesn't make my point wrong.

Nor does it make mine wrong.

BroncoWave

03-08-2016, 04:40 PM

Nor does it make mine wrong.

Your post seemed to imply that Houston is a shit franchise (correct me if I misread it) and to me that would be an incorrect statement. Again, forgive me if I misinterpreted what you were getting at.

BroncoJoe

03-08-2016, 04:47 PM

Your post seemed to imply that Houston is a shit franchise (correct me if I misread it) and to me that would be an incorrect statement. Again, forgive me if I misinterpreted what you were getting at.

Never said they're a shit franchise. They're not exactly good either, or even approach what the Broncos have done in the same time frame. Brock has a solid organization here. Who knows what will happen elsewhere.

Look - I like Brock, and want him to return. If he decides to head somewhere else, I'll wish him well, and promptly forget about him.

Northman

03-08-2016, 04:48 PM

Well to be fair Houston's division last year was abysmal, anyone could of won that because of how bad it was. I mean, it wasnt a real shock that KC went in there and utterly destroyed them.

BroncoWave

03-08-2016, 04:49 PM

Fair enough. I'm with you that I hope to keep him, but I think he has two pretty good options in front of him and will be in a good situation either way. Hopefully it's us and not them.

Cugel

03-08-2016, 06:33 PM

NFL Media has reported that the Broncos have offered the 25-year-old Osweiler a three-year contract worth up to $45 million but that Osweiler will not accept it since he would not be able to renegotiate if he excels in 2016. NFL Media’s Ian Rapoport adds that the Houston Texans are viewed as a legitimate threat to compete with Denver for Osweiler’s services.

Houston shuffled among Brian Hoyer, Ryan Mallett, T.J. Yates and Brandon Weeden as starters last season and will be looking for an upgrade in free agency or possibly with the 22nd pick in the 2016 NFL Draft.

It’s worth noting that the last two quarterbacks to sign – Sam Bradford with the Eagles ($17.5 million per year for two years) and Kirk Cousins with the Redskins ($19.95 million on a franchise tag) – are both being paid more than what the Broncos are reportedly offering Osweiler. Osweiler doesn’t have the track record of those two QBs, but a bidding war between the Broncos and Texans could force his price closer to that range.

Clearly the 3-year contract with only 1 year guaranteed for $13M is out the window.

We're now wondering if Brock will sign with Denver at all. If he does, it's going to be somewhere close to Sam Bradford's $17M a year contract.

He'll need more than a 1 year guarantee though. I'd say the Broncos wind up giving him a 3-year guarantee. They won't want to do that but tough.

There is no alternative that anybody can point to that isn't horrible.

From all the commentary I'm hearing in the media the backup plan is Ryan Fitzpatrick, but now you're in a bidding war for him. They'd have to overpay RGIII for God's sake.

Denver Native (Carol)

03-08-2016, 06:48 PM

It's foolish to believe too much of what any team says, or whispers, this time of year, with free agency on the horizon. There's a high-stakes game of leverage and bluffing underway between NFL clubs and agents.

But when it comes to the New York Jets, and them holding a firm line on how high they will go to compensate quarterback Ryan Fitzpatrick, I tend to buy in.

While it is true the rampant spending on quarterbacks has driven up what some passers will look for on the open market and in looming renegotiations, it will apply more in some cases than others. And in the particular case of Fitzpatrick, I still see his ultimate earning potential and leverage to be somewhat capped.

In fact, if Brock Osweiler ends up staying in Denver, then I don't see too many viable options for Fitzpatrick beyond returning to the Jets. Making matters a little more interesting, Osweiler and Fitzpatrick are both represented by the same man, Jimmy Sexton.

rest - http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/25509173/free-agency-all-eyes-are-on-brock-osweiler-including-ryan-fitzpatricks

TXBRONC

03-08-2016, 10:08 PM

I still say Owen Daniels was a straight-out upgrade over the very soft JT anyways, and the fact that he was cheaper was just icing on the cake.

I concur. Daniels was an upgrade because he could block and catch passes.

VonDoom

03-08-2016, 10:10 PM

James Palmer ‏@JamesPalmerTV 1h1 hour ago

The Broncos & Brock Osweiler's reps haven't had any negotiations since the Broncos initial 3-year offer several days ago.

TXBRONC

03-08-2016, 10:12 PM

Congratulations! Now your team is 7-9! No Super Bowl for you! Go to the back of the line. :coffee:

7-9? I don't think so Cugel.

BroncoWave

03-08-2016, 10:15 PM

Lancane

03-08-2016, 10:19 PM

I expect the Broncos are making a last minute effort to ink Osweiler before the start of Free Agency. If so, my best guess is 3 years, 54 mil. with 29 mil. guaranteed which should give him two years of security and he'd have to make the annual bonuses to make him free and clear to be easily cut the third year of the deal. Pure speculation on my part

VonDoom

03-08-2016, 10:24 PM

The big debate all offseason has been on whether we should keep Malik or Brock. If we wind up losing both, that would be pretty disastrous. Especially given that Trevathan is gone as well. Elway really needs to get this deal done with Brock, and I suspect he will.

Yeah, I always assumed Jackson was gone, but that was also assuming that Brock was back. I'm getting a bit nervous that he's gone as well. I don't know if he's our savior, but I have to assume he's the guy Elway wants as his QB. If he goes elsewhere, this offseason is in bad shape early on.

BroncoWave

03-08-2016, 10:29 PM

Yeah, I always assumed Jackson was gone, but that was also assuming that Brock was back. I'm getting a bit nervous that he's gone as well. I don't know if he's our savior, but I have to assume he's the guy Elway wants as his QB. If he goes elsewhere, this offseason is in bad shape early on.

Yeah I don't know that Brock is the savior, and I was really more in favor of keeping the defense together than bringing him back. But since we have already lost two of our biggest FAs off the defense, you just HAVE to bring Brock back now. Can't lose him along with Danny and Malik. Just can't.

HORSEPOWER 56

03-08-2016, 11:58 PM

Lancane

03-09-2016, 12:13 AM

Not necessarily HP, they can send an offer sheet at anytime...it's not exactly negotiating either. I don't buy the reports anyways because they're being spouted by someone in the film division at NFLN, not Schefter or Rappaport, someone of note.

Simple Jaded

03-09-2016, 01:35 AM

and back to Madden..... yet still hasn't signed a QB.

Those players are cheaper and imminently more affordable if they don't waste $18 MM on a player with 21 starts since ******* high school.

$18 MM for 21 starts in 7 seasons and you're going to condescend to me about reality? Suck it!

**** this, just won a SB, the last thing I'm doing is pissing down my leg at the thought of life without Brock ******* Osweiler .

Lancane

03-09-2016, 02:15 AM

Those players are cheaper and imminently more affordable if they don't waste $18 MM on a player with 21 starts since ******* high school.

$18 MM for 21 starts in 7 seasons and you're going to condescend to me about reality? Suck it!

**** this, just won a SB, the last thing I'm doing is pissing down my leg at the thought of life without Brock ******* Osweiler .

You will be if the POS is less capable then even Kyle F'n Orton. Aren't we tired yet of mediocrity at the position? Wasn't that why we wanted Manning? Everyone is touting cheap which doesn't mean success brother, as you well know. Does he lack the film and numbers for a mega deal? Hell yes, but do we really want to band-aid the wound with an unknown like RGIII, Fitzpatrick or Kaepernick? If a trade for AJ McCarron was in the table or they had already traded up within reach of Wentz, Goff or Lynch I'd probably feel the same...If I wanted to be the fan of a trashy organization then I would be a Bengals, Browns, Dolphins or Raiders fan where mediocrity is acceptable!