Broncos offering Oz less than he wants.

[Northman]

http://www.onsportsnews.com/featured/broncos-offering-osweiler-less-than-16m-willing-to-let-qb-hit-fa/

**Video**

It was nice knowing you Oz, wish you would stay and take a fair deal but 16 mil or more for 7 games isnt going to work mate. Next man up.

[SoCalImport]

I think the offense would do better with Fitzpatrick under center, at least at first.
We don't know how good Oz could become but based on our sample size there's no justification for paying him Franchise QB money.
Sign a journeyman and watch the draft for the future.

[Rick]

Good potential, ton of arm strength, don't know enough yet about his football IQ to award 16 per year. That was a hell of a lot of sacks earned by not making quick enough decisions.

Through playing time he may very well cut way down on that and may very well be a hell of a player, but man, 16 million on such a small sample size...

[TXBRONC]

http://www.onsportsnews.com/featured/broncos-offering-osweiler-less-than-16m-willing-to-let-qb-hit-fa/

**Video**

It was nice knowing you Oz, wish you would stay and take a fair deal but 16 mil or more for 7 games isnt going to work mate. Next man up.

That's disappointing.

It will be interesting to see what Elway will do.

[TXBRONC]

I think the offense would do better with Fitzpatrick under center, at least at first.
We don't know how good Oz could become but based on our sample size there's no justification for paying him Franchise QB money.
Sign a journeyman and watch the draft for the future.

There is nothing about Fitzpatrick that intrigues me.

[Northman]

There is nothing about Fitzpatrick that intrigues me.

He did pretty well for NY this past year. If anything, if we want to repeat with the kind of defense we have he might be able to do the job. He certainly has the experience to manage the offense but we would still need to improve the line and get better run production than last year for him to succeed.

[BroncoJoe]

I hope this report isn't true. I can't see any way Elway (based on his comments) will give him that much.

[Rick]

And before certain members start ranting, not a single person here so far has said we want Brock gone...I know these rants will be coming soon, none of us are saying this.

We just see the reality of the salary cap situation and it is very difficult to point 16 million towards a player you are not yet decided on, and especially when you are cash strapped to begin with and trying to hold together a defense that just won you the championship.

[weazel]

16 million.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

That was good, thanks North!

[TXBRONC]

And before certain members start ranting, not a single person here so far has said we want Brock gone...I know these rants will be coming soon, none of us are saying this.

We just see the reality of the salary cap situation and it is very difficult to point 16 million towards a player you are not yet decided on, and especially when you are cash strapped to begin with and trying to hold together a defense that just won you the championship.

I would sure like him and think he's Denver's best option but if Elway has to go a different direction then so be it.

[Davii]

I don't think there's any way John gives Oz 16 million. I just don't see it happening. I understand, like Malik, the market bears what it bears, but I don't think we can afford such a contract at this juncture.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Yesterday on thefan, on what they call the Fan Football Hour, the two hosting the show were talking about OZ, and they agreed that so far, based on the 7 games he played, he is an average QB. It might not be too far of a stretch to think that possibly nothing has been done with Peyton so far, because if OZ takes a better offer than what the Broncos offer him, Peyton just might be here next season.

[Ravage!!!]

That's 1 million higher than what John said he would pay.. publicly. But I wouldn't be surprised if that isn't negotiated and they come to a meetings of close numbers. One side says a number that is lower than they will actually pay, and the other side asks for a number higher than they would actually take. Not exactly rocket science when it comes to negotiations.


I don't see this as being a deal breaker, in the least.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Pro Football Focus's Michael Renner included Denver Broncos quarterback Brock Osweiler in a list of free agents who will be overpaid during the free agency period.

Here is what Renner had to say about the Broncos pending free agent quarterback.

The thirst for a quarterback in the NFL today is real. The Redskins tagging Kirk Cousins is really all you need to know about the desperation teams feel. If Peyton Manning does indeed retire, the Broncos will be experiencing a similar squeeze. This could very well lead them to splurge on their former second-round pick, whom they have spent four years developing. Outside of the Patriots game though, Osweiler (71.3) has shown little indication that he’s a quarterback that should be starting in this league. His 26.7 deep-accuracy percentage was second-worst in the NFL.

rest - http://www.milehighreport.com/2016/3/2/11147170/pro-football-focus-says-quarterback-brock-osweiler-is-about-to-be

[Ravage!!!]

Yesterday on thefan, on what they call the Fan Football Hour, the two hosting the show were talking about OZ, and they agreed that so far, based on the 7 games he played, he is an average QB. It might not be too far of a stretch to think that possibly nothing has been done with Peyton so far, because if OZ takes a better offer than what the Broncos offer him, Peyton just might be here next season.

Just don't see that happening.

Elway needed/wanted to gt out of the shadow of Tebow for a lot of reasons. The main one was, he couldn't play. He was bad, but his name was so popular with the fans.

Look where we are, now, with Manning. He's a HUGELY popular QB by name...but he can't play. Look where we were during this season in regards to "do we pull him? When do we pull him? If we pull him and the next guy isn't good, then what do we do? If we pull him and the next guy is good, then do we put Peyton back in?" IT was CONSTANT questions that circled around problems evolved BECAUSE of Peyton's lost physical skills.

If we are down by 14 points, does Peyton have the physical tools to bring us back from that anymore? I believe the answer is no.

Peyton my be wanting to play again...but Elway knows this will be his opportunity to step out from under that shadow of having a popular QB that just can't play anymore. Which is why the signing of Brock will be big.

[Northman]

That's 1 million higher than what John said he would pay.. publicly. But I wouldn't be surprised if that isn't negotiated and they come to a meetings of close numbers. One side says a number that is lower than they will actually pay, and the other side asks for a number higher than they would actually take. Not exactly rocket science when it comes to negotiations.


I don't see this as being a deal breaker, in the least.

Nothing is ever a deal breaker no matter the player. However, it is kind of telling that the Broncos are willing to let him hit the market and see if he gets a better offer. Worse case scenario for Oz is no one bites on his price tag and would give leverage to Denver. Bad news is some team might be desperate enough to pay that money to a guy who only played 7 games as a starter but also went 5-2 in that time. Could work out for both in Denver but its more and more looking like Denver may have to move on.

[Ravage!!!]

Nothing is ever a deal breaker no matter the player. However, it is kind of telling that the Broncos are willing to let him hit the market and see if he gets a better offer. Worse case scenario for Oz is no one bites on his price tag and would give leverage to Denver. Bad news is some team might be desperate enough to pay that money to a guy who only played 7 games as a starter but also went 5-2 in that time. Could work out for both in Denver but its more and more looking like Denver may have to move on.

Not necessarily. We've seen Elway let players test their market value before. I dont' see this as being a telling point. I think Elway knows that the Broncos Team has value, and thus he can counter any offer with "yeah, but look where you will be starting, and look where you will be starting with...compared to this." When a player/person can actuallly see the numbers, then its more real than speculation from the guy that is trying to woo you.

[BroncoJoe]

I hope you're right, Ravage.

[Northman]

Not necessarily. We've seen Elway let players test their market value before. I dont' see this as being a telling point. I think Elway knows that the Broncos Team has value, and thus he can counter any offer with "yeah, but look where you will be starting, and look where you will be starting with...compared to this." When a player/person can actuallly see the numbers, then its more real than speculation from the guy that is trying to woo you.

With certain players yes, but i dont think that applies to this case. Reason being is that if John really felt that Brock was worth 16 mil he would just simply pay it because there is no other option on Denver right now. If John was convinced that Oz was the future he would just pay the guy in my opinion because the reality is another team could offer Oz 20 mil and then that would make Denver look cheap. However, if no team bites than Denver can go back to Oz and say "see, your not worth 16 mil right now". Im glad Elway is standing firm here but i really dont get the feeling they are as close as you might think they are. IMO

[dogfish]

There is nothing about Fitzpatrick that intrigues me.

that dude is god awful. . .

[Ravage!!!]

With certain players yes, but i dont think that applies to this case. Reason being is that if John really felt that Brock was worth 16 mil he would just simply pay it because there is no other option on Denver right now. If John was convinced that Oz was the future he would just pay the guy in my opinion because the reality is another team could offer Oz 20 mil and then that would make Denver look cheap. However, if no team bites than Denver can go back to Oz and say "see, your not worth 16 mil right now". Im glad Elway is standing firm here but i really dont get the feeling they are as close as you might think they are. IMO

Well, I don't agree here that he would "sim;ply pay him"..because John is always lookign to get the cheaper deal. He's always wheeling and dealing, and wants to feel like the Broncos got the BEST deal.

So he comes out and say "I have a cap between 12-15 million"... now he says that publically...which tells you something. One, he's making a point to Brock and his agent. That's not for the good of the 'people' to know, because usually Elway doesn't talk numbers at all. In fact, when I heard him make that statement, and actually GAVE numbers, it was pretty surprising to hear him actually mention specifics to the press. So it had a purpose.

So the number that the agent comes back with is just a bit higher than what Elway stated he would pay. Is that shocking? I mean, that number isn't random, as the agent can see what was said and what was just paid. So it's just laying out the basework for the talks.

So the question really is.... would Elway NOT sign Brock if another team is willing to pay him 16? Would that be the best for the franchise? Is 15 truly the "cap" ...or ws that number the negotiating talk? I can't imagine the Broncos truly wanting to simply try and find a QB out of what's available, and make another run at the Bowl for such a small difference in "asking" prices. Not with the way Elway has been able to work the cap with different options.

Defending our SUper Bowl championship season with just "any" QB.... seems like its a step backwards. I truly believe this gets worked out. But they have to start somewhere.

[Ravage!!!]

I hope you're right, Ravage.

me too bro...but 'm feeling confident thta a deal gets done. THere will be a lot of whiners on the boards about the amount he signs for,but they whine about that all the time anyway.

[Ravage!!!]

that dude is god awful. . .

He's not god awful. Hoyer is god awful. Tebow is god awful. Fitz is a guy you can put into the lineup until your draftpick finally comes around.

[BroncoJoe]

I'm clearly not OZ, but there's no way in hell - for a couple million/year - I'd go to a team like the Browns, or other bottom dweller when I can be part of something potentially very special. The money will come later if he preforms, but being part of a team like this outweighs anything monetary at the moment.

[tripp]

Well, I don't agree here that he would "sim;ply pay him"..because John is always lookign to get the cheaper deal. He's always wheeling and dealing, and wants to feel like the Broncos got the BEST deal.

So he comes out and say "I have a cap between 12-15 million"... now he says that publically...which tells you something. One, he's making a point to Brock and his agent. That's not for the good of the 'people' to know, because usually Elway doesn't talk numbers at all. In fact, when I heard him make that statement, and actually GAVE numbers, it was pretty surprising to hear him actually mention specifics to the press. So it had a purpose.

So the number that the agent comes back with is just a bit higher than what Elway stated he would pay. Is that shocking? I mean, that number isn't random, as the agent can see what was said and what was just paid. So it's just laying out the basework for the talks.

So the question really is.... would Elway NOT sign Brock if another team is willing to pay him 16? Would that be the best for the franchise? Is 15 truly the "cap" ...or ws that number the negotiating talk? I can't imagine the Broncos truly wanting to simply try and find a QB out of what's available, and make another run at the Bowl for such a small difference in "asking" prices. Not with the way Elway has been able to work the cap with different options.

Defending our SUper Bowl championship season with just "any" QB.... seems like its a step backwards. I truly believe this gets worked out. But they have to start somewhere.


Basically where I'm at. I don't think there's a chance Elway goes into the free agent market blind without having a QB in mind, or some sort of plan.

[tripp]

He's not god awful. Hoyer is god awful. Tebow is god awful. Fitz is a guy you can put into the lineup until your draftpick finally comes around.

One game away from making the playoffs as a wild card team in the AFC East, I'm ok with that. He only threw 1 INT in the red zone all year. We're not asking him to be Peyton Manning of 2013.

[Ravage!!!]

I'm clearly not OZ, but there's no way in hell - for a couple million/year - I'd go to a team like the Browns, or other bottom dweller when I can be part of something potentially very special. The money will come later if he preforms, but being part of a team like this outweighs anything monetary at the moment.

Which is another selling point for Elway. HOW much tht is worth, is obviously different for everyone. I mean, 2 million a year can be 6-8 million dollars (depending on the contract length). Lets not pretend that isn't a lot of money for ANYONE.

[dogfish]

He's not god awful. Hoyer is god awful. Tebow is god awful. Fitz is a guy you can put into the lineup until your draftpick finally comes around.

he is god awful. . . dude is orton with a slightly better beard. . .

[TXBRONC]

One game away from making the playoffs as a wild card team in the AFC East, I'm ok with that. He only threw 1 INT in the red zone all year. We're not asking him to be Peyton Manning of 2013.

I'm not so sure that would be so palatable to Elway not when you're defending Super Bowl champs.

[Ravage!!!]

he is god awful. . . dude is orton with a slightly better beard. . .

ok.. if you say so.

[Ravage!!!]

I'm not so sure that would be so palatable to Elway not when you're defending Super Bowl champs.

It was better play than Manning, though.

[TXBRONC]

ok.. if you say so.

There is no denying that Dog is right about Fitzpatrick having the better beard.

[Ravage!!!]

There is no denying that Dog is right about Fitzpatrick having the better beard.

Hah.. that is true. Fitz definitely has the better beard. I'm sure it was pretty good in those NY winters.

[tripp]

I'm not so sure that would be so palatable to Elway not when you're defending Super Bowl champs.

What other options does he have?

[TXBRONC]

It was better play than Manning, though.

But when push came to shove he still didn't get it done.

[Ravage!!!]

What other options does he have?

That's it. I mean, if we are talkign RG3, Kaep, Fitz, Hoyer...???? Then to me, Fitz is the guy for THIS team at THIS time.

[tripp]

That's it. I mean, if we are talkign RG3, Kaep, Fitz, Hoyer...???? Then to me, Fitz is the guy for THIS team at THIS time.

If Kaeps contract wasn't so bad, I'd consider him as #1. Good mobile QB who has shown promise. Just needs a fresh start, and a good locker room to keep his head straight.

[TXBRONC]

What other options does he have?

Right now I don't know but there has more than just him. Heck they might better off going with a rookie if they think he could play right away.

[Ravage!!!]

But when push came to shove he still didn't get it done.

Neither did Manning. So it came down to how muc your team asked/needed you to do. I'm not saying Fitz is a "Manning of old." I'm saying of the options available, Fitz is the best. At least we know he's physically able to run the offense, and if we limit his decisions... those 31 TD passes would be a HUGE improvment over the 9 we got last season.

[TXBRONC]

Neither did Manning. So it came down to how muc your team asked/needed you to do. I'm not saying Fitz is a "Manning of old." I'm saying of the options available, Fitz is the best. At least we know he's physically able to run the offense, and if we limit his decisions... those 31 TD passes would be a HUGE improvment over the 9 we got last season.

I don't know Rav there is just something about the guy that doesn't set right with me.

[Ravage!!!]

If Kaeps contract wasn't so bad, I'd consider him as #1. Good mobile QB who has shown promise. Just needs a fresh start, and a good locker room to keep his head straight.

Not me. Like TX and Fitz... I want to stay completely away from Kaep. That guy's attitude just rubs me the wrong way and Id on't want it being the leader of my team.

At least we know Fitz is level headed and intelligent. He may not have the running ability of Kaep (as that guy runs like a gazelle)... but he's a better passer. In today' NFL, give me the better passer. He has a lot of phyical ability, but it's always been his personality that I just completely dislike.

[Ravage!!!]

I don't know Rav there is just something about the guy that doesn't set right with me.

Well.. I get that. We all have our dislikes. Fitz has always just been a "meh" QB. Certainly not special by any means, but is always good enough to get starting jobs and always do pretty decently. 31 TDs this year in NY isn't bad.

But, this is why I think Brock is signed by Denver. The options are bad, and Brock is by far the best option. Brock has leverage, and I can't blame him for trying to get the best deal. Some fans will whine and cry about the "he's not worth that much".... as if it's their money. But we know that QBs are worth the risk because they are worth so much more to the team.

[TXBRONC]

Well.. I get that. We all have our dislikes. Fitz has always just been a "meh" QB. Certainly not special by any means, but is always good enough to get starting jobs and always do pretty decently. 31 TDs this year in NY isn't bad.

But, this is why I think Brock is signed by Denver. The options are bad, and Brock is by far the best option. Brock has leverage, and I can't blame him for trying to get the best deal. Some fans will whine and cry about the "he's not worth that much".... as if it's their money. But we know that QBs are worth the risk because they are worth so much more to the team.

If that is the direction Denver has to go so be it. It's just not my favorite option.

[Timmy!]

:pop2:

[CoachChaz]

If Kaeps contract wasn't so bad, I'd consider him as #1. Good mobile QB who has shown promise. Just needs a fresh start, and a good locker room to keep his head straight.

19 mil for a proven talent like Kap...or 16 mil for a virtual unknown like Oz. I'm not the biggest Kaep fan either, but if those are my options at those salaries...he's the better choice.

[Cugel]

http://www.onsportsnews.com/featured/broncos-offering-osweiler-less-than-16m-willing-to-let-qb-hit-fa/

**Video**

It was nice knowing you Oz, wish you would stay and take a fair deal but 16 mil or more for 7 games isnt going to work mate. Next man up.

Saw the video. There was nothing new in it.

Broncos insiders have reported for a week now that the Broncos want to pay Osweiler no more than $12 M a year on a short-term (perhaps 2 year) deal.

Nor is it clear that Osweiler would get $16M from anybody. That might be the average starting QB salary, but he's not BEEN a starting QB - except for 7 games.

So, to project what he will do over the course of a 16 game season for some other team is a PROJECTION. It's a guess. A team might have "a good feeling" about Osweiler. They might "like what they saw" but in the end they're rolling the dice.

And so are the Broncos. Osweiler could (theoretically) turn out to be a top 5 QB in this league for years to come - the next Tom Brady or Ben Roethlisberger for instance, in which case Elway will be haunted for the rest of his career by "the one that got away."

He could become the GM who let Brett Favre leave Atlanta and go to the Hall of Fame in Green Bay. He could be all those GMs who let Tom Brady fall to the 6th round in 2000.

Or he could be the guy who saw a mediocre QB who turned out to be the next Brian Griese for what he was and refused to overpay for him.

It's a HUGE stakes poker game, and Elway had better be right about this.

If he lets Osweiler go, he'd better be SURE that he's not going to watch him lead some other team to a SB. Because if that happens NOBODY in the media or the fans will ever forgive him.

I'm not saying he's wrong. I'm not remotely a better judge of QB talent than Elway. But, he'd better not screw this up. That's all.

[Ravage!!!]

If that is the direction Denver has to go so be it. It's just not my favorite option.

I hear you. Brock is my favorite option.

You know, before last season I wasn't impressed with Brock at all. In the VERY limited time that we saw Brock (prior to the 2015 season).. I thought he looked terrible. But after seeing him for the 7 games... I'm feeling a LOT better about signing him as our starter. No one (well, maybe that dude that was here for a while..yatayada ((whatever his name was)) )is saying taht Brock looks to be the next Peyton Manning. But it's rare to have that kind of guy.

Brock very well COULD have been the first QB taken in the next draft had he stayed another year in AZ. He has a lot of talent, a strong arm, and he appears to have a strong work ethic. He wasn't "awful" when asked to take the team over in a very 'stressful' circumstance, and seemed to have handled it well. It was his FIRST 7 games of his NFL career, and looked decently comfortable behind center. I LIKE the idea of signing this kid. I think anything else, is going backwards.

We drafted him to be our starter if Manning wasn't available. He's sat and learned with the team and Manning for 4 seasons, and when asked to play..he won games for us. He saved our Super Bowl winning season by doing what we asked of him. Going with him seems to be the best way to keep this momentum going forward. He isn't asking for 20 million a season like Manning was paid. Salaries go up along with the salary cap.

I think the idea of "lets just pay a shitty QB because he's cheap" is a horrible way of going about things. Brock's play turned my opinion of him, and feel that we will get something done in order to keep him here.

[Lancane]

Part of the problem is that Elway hasn't sold Brock or his agent that the Broncos want Osweiler, in part because of Manning and that whole situation as he played out over the past two years, but look at Elways' lack of effort to extend his contract the previous off-season. If Osweiler felt he was wanted, he'd probably take less.

Look at the reports about Denver looking at RGIII, that they like Wentz and Prescott, and now there is talk about Denver and Lynch. It's Elway's GM legacy on the line as NFLN reported, this will be his hardest off-season to date, and if Elway makes the wrong choices then the fans will begin to doubt.

[Bronco4ever]

I'd love to have Brock back considering he helped us get the #1 seed (which ultimately ended in a SB victory), for the sake of continuity, and that he has a lot of upside especially if he gets first team reps throughout training camp and starting the season. If he is pricing himself out of our range, I would be on board for Fitz or RG3. I hope we don't have to search for 2nd and 3rd options, but it's looking like we may have to if Brock is going to chase money.

[Ravage!!!]

If he lets Osweiler go, he'd better be SURE that he's not going to watch him lead some other team to a SB. Because if that happens NOBODY in the media or the fans will ever forgive him.

I'm not saying he's wrong. I'm not remotely a better judge of QB talent than Elway. But, he'd better not screw this up. That's all.

I think you are over exaggerating the situation, as Elway won't be judged on the move of Os one way or the other. He'll be judged on the success of the Broncos. Elway has had tremendous success while being the guy responsible for the talent here, and no matter HOW Brock does with another team, all that matters is how the Broncos are doing.

So this "he better not screw this up" is extremely over pushed by no one other than you.

[Ravage!!!]

Look at the reports about Denver looking at RGIII, that they like Wentz and Prescott, and now there is talk about Denver and Lynch. It's Elway's GM legacy on the line as NFLN reported, this will be his hardest off-season to date, and if Elway makes the wrong choices then the fans will begin to doubt.

We JUST won the Super Bowl, and you think the fans will begin to doubt?? Come on.

[Lancane]

We JUST won the Super Bowl, and you think the fans will begin to doubt?? Come on.

It wouldn't be the first time Rav, look at what people were saying after we lost to Seattle. We brought in an Offensive Minded coach and the offense was next to putrid, so if the offense remains dismal and Elway messed up dealing with the quarterback position whether it's Brock, RGIII or other veteran. About the only leeway IMHO is if it's due to a rookie. Fans are fickle Rav, look at how they turned on Shanahan, Cutler, Fox and it's not just our fans either, hence the moniker, the Not For Long league.

[Cugel]

Part of the problem is that Elway hasn't sold Brock or his agent that the Broncos want Osweiler, in part because of Manning and that whole situation as he played out over the past two years, but look at Elways' lack of effort to extend his contract the previous off-season. If Osweiler felt he was wanted, he'd probably take less.

Look at the reports about Denver looking at RGIII, that they like Wentz and Prescott, and now there is talk about Denver and Lynch. It's Elway's GM legacy on the line as NFLN reported, this will be his hardest off-season to date, and if Elway makes the wrong choices then the fans will begin to doubt.

Why would he take less? Would YOU "take less"? How much less? If it was $3 M a year less for a total (guaranteed) loss of $6M would you take less just to stay in Denver?

Hell no. If someone offered me an extra $6M to go live in Cleveland, I'm on the plane singing "Cleveland rocks! Cleveland rocks!" So would you. and if you say differently, you lyin' ! :beer:

Who knows how long an NFL career is going to last? He could go out and get tackled on a play where it doesn't look like anything at all, and wind up with an artificial hip like happened to Bo Jackson, and *poof* it's all gone.

Career, money, future contract, all disappear, and all that's left is that guaranteed money.

John Elway is talking himself into taking a hard line position, probably because he has no choice. Bottom line is that he has a ton of FAs to try and keep, and he'll have more next year. He has to take a cold, hard look at the bottom line and decide what he can afford to pay his QB and still keep the nucleus of his team together.

And he's trying to jaw-bone Osweiler into accepting his offer, and staying with the team.

It's probably not going to work.

But, making Brock "feel the love" is not going to affect things one bit. He knows Elway wants him back and has no intention of re-signing Peyton. If he had any doubts about that matter, they will be dispelled in a few days when Peyton and the Broncos "mutually agree to part ways amicably" which is apparently how Peyton wants to play this. He's not going to retire apparently.

At that point, Brock will realize that the Broncos want him and don't want Manning. He's not the 2nd choice.

But, this is a business. And the business is to make the most amount of money out of a short NFL career.

It's not to please Broncos fans. Osweiler is a professional athlete looking out for #1 - "and #1 ain't you. You ain't even #2!"

Fans always hate that players are not loyal to the team like the fans are. But the team has ZERO loyal to the players too and will ruthlessly cut them the minute they are of no further utility. This is a business.

[Ravage!!!]

It wouldn't be the first time Rav, look at what people were saying after we lost to Seattle. We brought in an Offensive Minded coach and the offense was next to putrid, so if the offense remains dismal and Elway messed up dealing with the quarterback position whether it's Brock, RGIII or other veteran. About the only leeway IMHO is if it's due to a rookie.

You are forgetting we JUST WON THE SUPER BOWL. Believe it or not, that actually means something to most fans out there. Perhaps not Joel, and it seems you are putting that off to the side by looking a couple years back, but we JUST WON THE CHAMPIONSHIP won't make fans 'doubt' Elway based on Brock. It would be pretty stupid to do that considering the number of factors goign on with this.

[Cugel]

We JUST won the Super Bowl, and you think the fans will begin to doubt?? Come on.

It's already happened. Fans are already doubting. Take a look at the Vegas odds of the Broncos winning the SB in 2017:

1. Carolina Panthers +$1,000 (10 to 1)
2. New England Patriots +$1,000 (10 to 1)
3. Pittsburgh Steelers +$1,000 (10 to 1)
4. Seattle Seahawks +$1,000 (10 to 1)
5. Green Bay Packers +$1,200 (12 to 1)
6. Arizona Cardinals +$1,500 (15 to 1)
7. Cincinnati Bengals +$1,800 (18 to 1)
8. Dallas Cowboys +$2,000 (20 to 1)
9. Denver Broncos +$2,000 (20 to 1)
10. Indianapolis Colts +$2,500 (25 to 1)
11. Kansas City Chiefs +$2,500 (25 to 1)
12. Minnesota Vikings +$2,500 (25 to 1)
13. Baltimore Ravens +$4,000 (40 to 1)
14. Buffalo Bills +$4,000 (40 to 1)
15. Houston Texans +$4,000 (40 to 1)
16. New York Giants +$4,000 (40 to 1)
17. New York Jets +$4,000 (40 to 1)
18. Atlanta Falcons +$5,000 (50 to 1)
19. Chicago Bears +$5,000 (50 to 1)
20. Detroit Lions +$5,000 (50 to 1)
21. New Orleans Saints +$5,000 (50 to 1)
22. Washington Redskins +$5,000 (50 to 1)
23. Jacksonville Jaguars +$6,000 (60 to 1)
24. Los Angeles Rams +$6,000 (60 to 1)
25. Miami Dolphins +$6,000 (60 to 1)
26. Oakland Raiders +$6,000 (60 to 1)
27. Philadelphia Eagles +$6,000 (60 to 1)
28. San Diego Chargers +$6,000 (60 to 1)
29. Tampa Bay Buccaneers +$6,000 (60 to 1)
30. Tennessee Titans +$6,000 (60 to 1)
31. San Francisco 49ers +$7,500 (75 to 1)
32. Cleveland Browns +$20,000 (200 to 1)

Two weeks after their SB victory and they're 20-1 long-shots in 8th place, behind the Patriots, Steelers and Bengals, all teams they beat on the way to SB victory.

Why is that? Because the Broncos QB situation is a big mess right now. Nobody knows who their QB is, and if Osweiler walks the odds will probably drop all the way down to 40-1 like the Texans, Jets and Bears, teams that didn't even make the playoffs.

Frankly I doubt the Broncos will repeat. It's looking like rather a long-shot, and if they lose Osweiler and have to start some proven loser like RGIII or if they promote some scrub like Trevor Seimian, I'm going to drink one last time to the setting sun on the Broncos SB run and say "goodnight." It was sure fun! :beer:

[Ravage!!!]

What the hell does the Vegas odds have to do with the FANS doubting??????

[Lancane]

You are forgetting we JUST WON THE SUPER BOWL. Believe it or not, that actually means something to most fans out there. Perhaps not Joel, and it seems you are putting that off to the side by looking a couple years back, but we JUST WON THE CHAMPIONSHIP won't make fans 'doubt' Elway based on Brock. It would be pretty stupid to do that considering the number of factors goign on with this.

It wouldn't be immediate Rav, it would lay the seed though and you can not tell me honestly that it would not. If Brock goes elsewhere and lights it up and Denver goes with RGIII who struggles or worse, or if Elway brought in a spread option suited QB for a pro-style offense and it ended in disaster...how many blamed Elway for hurting Manning by hiring Kubiak? Just cause we have faith, doesn't mean that our faith can not be tested. And what of those with little faith? Gruden won a Super Bowl, as did Billick, where are they now?

[Cugel]

You are forgetting we JUST WON THE SUPER BOWL. Believe it or not, that actually means something to most fans out there. Perhaps not Joel, and it seems you are putting that off to the side by looking a couple years back, but we JUST WON THE CHAMPIONSHIP won't make fans 'doubt' Elway based on Brock. It would be pretty stupid to do that considering the number of factors goign on with this.

Look. NOBODY is going to say: "ship that Bum Elway out of town!" But doubt the Broncos will repeat as SB champions if they have some recycled stiff as QB? I'd say a healthy dose of scepticism is in order at that point.

[Ravage!!!]

It wouldn't be immediate Rav, it would lay the seed though and you can not tell me honestly that it would not. If Brock goes elsewhere and lights it up and Denver goes with RGIII who struggles or worse, or if Elway brought in a spread option suited QB for a pro-style offense and it ended in disaster...how many blamed Elway for hurting Manning by hiring Kubiak? Just cause we have faith, doesn't mean that our faith can not be tested. And what of those with little faith? Gruden won a Super Bowl, as did Billick, where are they now?

you just listed 2 coaches. How many GMs that have taken their teams to 2 Super Bowls in 4 years simply lost the 'comfort' of their fans after a year removed from losing their HoF QB???

Fans aren't stupid. Hear how the fans are crying "he's not worth that much" right now? Seems that the fans are split on this 'keep him or let him go' thing. So no matter WHAT the decision is, and what the result it, fans will whine and cry. The ONLY way to be successful with the situation is to somehow pay Brock dirt cheap, and for him to become a HoFer while paying him dirt money.

So no.. I don't think fans were/are complaining or doubting Elway when we've gone to the Super Bowl 2 out of 3 years. I think that you (and those that hang around you) might be complaining about Elway, and thus your perspective might be a bit skewed.

[Cugel]

It wouldn't be immediate Rav, it would lay the seed though and you can not tell me honestly that it would not. If Brock goes elsewhere and lights it up and Denver goes with RGIII who struggles or worse, or if Elway brought in a spread option suited QB for a pro-style offense and it ended in disaster...how many blamed Elway for hurting Manning by hiring Kubiak? Just cause we have faith, doesn't mean that our faith can not be tested. And what of those with little faith? Gruden won a Super Bowl, as did Billick, where are they now?

Of course, everything will depend on how Osweiler performs over the next few years.

If he turns into a top 10 QB and re-signs with his new team a 4-year $60 M contract, then yes fans will be calling onto talk radio shows saying "WTF Elway you imbecile! Look at what Brock just did to the Steelers in the playoffs. Tell us again why he wasn't worth $15M a year you MORON?! ARrrggh!"

[Cugel]

you just listed 2 coaches. How many GMs that have taken their teams to 2 Super Bowls in 4 years simply lost the 'comfort' of their fans after a year removed from losing their HoF QB???

Fans aren't stupid. Hear how the fans are crying "he's not worth that much" right now? Seems that the fans are split on this 'keep him or let him go' thing. So no matter WHAT the decision is, and what the result it, fans will whine and cry. The ONLY way not to be successful with the situation is to somehow pay Brock dirt cheap, and for him to become a HoFer while paying him dirt money.

So no.. I don't think fans were/are complaining or doubting Elway when we've gone to the Super Bowl 2 out of 3 years. I think that you (and those that hang around you) might be complaining about Elway, and thus your perspective might be a bit skewed.

The criticism will be a lot less if they re-sign and over-pay Brock and he's mediocre and the Broncos don't win a SB, than if they don't and he goes elsewhere and is great and that team does well and the Broncos don't win another SB.

Elway is really on the hot-seat over this. But, that's the job. He's paid to make the tough decisions.

[Ravage!!!]

Look. NOBODY is going to say: "ship that Bum Elway out of town!" But doubt the Broncos will repeat as SB champions if they have some recycled stiff as QB? I'd say a healthy dose of scepticism is in order at that point.

Ok, then we are having 2 different conversations and understandings of what you were meaning. SURE, if you are saying that there are doubts in the BRONCOS repeating due to the fact that our QB situation is pretty un-resolved.... then I absolutely agree 100% with you. But that is different than the 'doubt in Elway" that Lancane is talking about in this VERY thread, with me at this VERY moment along with the conversation with you.

[Lancane]

you just listed 2 coaches. How many GMs that have taken their teams to 2 Super Bowls in 4 years simply lost the 'comfort' of their fans after a year removed from losing their HoF QB???

Fans aren't stupid. Hear how the fans are crying "he's not worth that much" right now? Seems that the fans are split on this 'keep him or let him go' thing. So no matter WHAT the decision is, and what the result it, fans will whine and cry. The ONLY way not to be successful with the situation is to somehow pay Brock dirt cheap, and for him to become a HoFer while paying him dirt money.

So no.. I don't think fans were/are complaining or doubting Elway when we've gone to the Super Bowl 2 out of 3 years. I think that you (and those that hang around you) might be complaining about Elway, and thus your perspective might be a bit skewed.

They have Rav, trust me. Most of us on here are in the 'In the Elway we Trust' category. But, look how many turned on Elway because of Tebow, because of Manning, trust me...not all support Elway as we do, what happens when he makes a poor choice? Gruden and Billick may have been coaches, but the point is that it didn't take long for either one to lose the faith of the fans which eventually led to disquiet within the fan base.

[Ravage!!!]

They have Rav, trust me. Most of us on here are in the 'In the Elway we Trust' category. But, look how many turned on Eleay because of Tebow, because of Manning, trust me...not all support Elway as we do, what happens when he makes a poor choice? Gruden and Billick may have been coaches, but the point is that it didn't take long for either one to lose the faith of the fans which eventually led to disquiet within the fan base.

I think winning the Super Bowl and going to 2 out of 3 years, gains you more time than what you are making it out to seem.

[Cugel]

Ok, then we are having 2 different conversations and understandings of what you were meaning. SURE, if you are saying that there are doubts in the BRONCOS repeating due to the fact that our QB situation is pretty un-resolved.... then I absolutely agree 100% with you. But that is different than the 'doubt in Elway" that Lancane is talking about in this VERY thread, with me at this VERY moment along with the conversation with you.

Well Rav, with regards to that, it won't be immediate. . . but there are a LOT of Osweiler fans. They're not as fanatically nuts as Tebow fans, but they are out there and they will be just waiting to say "I told you so! I said Osweiler would be great and look at him now! They should fire Elway because he just screwed the Broncos for the next 10 years! "

That absolutely WILL happen. (assuming Brock goes elsewhere and plays great).

If he's mediocre or worse, then it'll be "good thing Elway shipped that bum out of town, look at what he's done in Cleveland!"

For myself, while I like Osweiler and would like them to keep him, I'm not sure he's going to be great, so I won't be able to say "I always knew he'd be the next Tom Brady! I predicted it!" because I didn't. :coffee:

[Cugel]

I think winning the Super Bowl and going to 2 out of 3 years, gains you more time than what you are making it out to seem.

Depends on what happens. If they let Osweiler walk and the team tanks next year and Osweiler plays great for his new team, then yeah there will be a LOT of disgruntled fans who will say "Elway totally blew it! He threw away our chance to win multiple SBs." And they will be plenty butt-hurt about that.

Hell, I'll be butt-hurt about that, but I won't be able to say I predicted it.

[Lancane]

Ok, then we are having 2 different conversations and understandings of what you were meaning. SURE, if you are saying that there are doubts in the BRONCOS repeating due to the fact that our QB situation is pretty un-resolved.... then I absolutely agree 100% with you. But that is different than the 'doubt in Elway" that Lancane is talking about in this VERY thread, with me at this VERY moment along with the conversation with you.

I don't see it being at that point Rav, but if he makes the wrong decision a seed which could grow and that could go for signing Brock for too much and he proves mediocre. I think he is the best option right now, but that means little in the end.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

It's already happened. Fans are already doubting. Take a look at the Vegas odds of the Broncos winning the SB in 2017:

1. Carolina Panthers +$1,000 (10 to 1)
2. New England Patriots +$1,000 (10 to 1)
3. Pittsburgh Steelers +$1,000 (10 to 1)
4. Seattle Seahawks +$1,000 (10 to 1)
5. Green Bay Packers +$1,200 (12 to 1)
6. Arizona Cardinals +$1,500 (15 to 1)
7. Cincinnati Bengals +$1,800 (18 to 1)
8. Dallas Cowboys +$2,000 (20 to 1)
9. Denver Broncos +$2,000 (20 to 1)
10. Indianapolis Colts +$2,500 (25 to 1)
11. Kansas City Chiefs +$2,500 (25 to 1)
12. Minnesota Vikings +$2,500 (25 to 1)
13. Baltimore Ravens +$4,000 (40 to 1)
14. Buffalo Bills +$4,000 (40 to 1)
15. Houston Texans +$4,000 (40 to 1)
16. New York Giants +$4,000 (40 to 1)
17. New York Jets +$4,000 (40 to 1)
18. Atlanta Falcons +$5,000 (50 to 1)
19. Chicago Bears +$5,000 (50 to 1)
20. Detroit Lions +$5,000 (50 to 1)
21. New Orleans Saints +$5,000 (50 to 1)
22. Washington Redskins +$5,000 (50 to 1)
23. Jacksonville Jaguars +$6,000 (60 to 1)
24. Los Angeles Rams +$6,000 (60 to 1)
25. Miami Dolphins +$6,000 (60 to 1)
26. Oakland Raiders +$6,000 (60 to 1)
27. Philadelphia Eagles +$6,000 (60 to 1)
28. San Diego Chargers +$6,000 (60 to 1)
29. Tampa Bay Buccaneers +$6,000 (60 to 1)
30. Tennessee Titans +$6,000 (60 to 1)
31. San Francisco 49ers +$7,500 (75 to 1)
32. Cleveland Browns +$20,000 (200 to 1)

Two weeks after their SB victory and they're 20-1 long-shots in 8th place, behind the Patriots, Steelers and Bengals, all teams they beat on the way to SB victory.

Why is that? Because the Broncos QB situation is a big mess right now. Nobody knows who their QB is, and if Osweiler walks the odds will probably drop all the way down to 40-1 like the Texans, Jets and Bears, teams that didn't even make the playoffs.

Frankly I doubt the Broncos will repeat. It's looking like rather a long-shot, and if they lose Osweiler and have to start some proven loser like RGIII or if they promote some scrub like Trevor Seimian, I'm going to drink one last time to the setting sun on the Broncos SB run and say "goodnight." It was sure fun! :beer:
The Cowboys have better odds?

:laugh:

[MOtorboat]

So, I suppose Rav thinks Elway is being ridiculous and hyperbolic, as well.

[Cugel]

I don't see it being at that point Rav, but if he makes the wrong decision a seed which could grow and that could go for signing Brock for too much and he proves mediocre. I think he is the best option right now, but that means little in the end.

If we're being honest, we have to admit this is one of those close judgment calls. Who honestly knows how good Osweiler is going to be? Who knows what would happen if they signed RGIII or promoted Trevor Seimian?

We THINK we know what would happen (nothing good!) but we don't know that if they re-sign Osweiler and give him $30M guaranteed over the next 2 seasons that he's going to be great or even good.

We saw Osweiler over 7 games and he looked generally good, but not great. That's a rather small sample size.

And can they win another championship with a mediocre or worse QB? History says NO, but then no team had gone back to the SB and won within 2 years after losing it since the 1973 Dolphins (who went back the year after losing to the Cowboys and won).

That the Broncos would be the first team to do that was not probable. But, they did it.

[Lancane]

The Cowboys have better odds?

:laugh:

Only because of our QB situation.

[NightTerror218]

IMO if Oz leaves we may lose the division in 2016.

That will be because we have a new QB who will be learning a new system and a couple starters on defense. Teams will be studying this defense all off season and into the season to find weak links. If you are in the AFC West the only team you will study is the Broncos as leader of the AFC west. I doubt we will see comeback against the Pats and Cinci or Steelers again like we did this year with our offense.

Even if you keep defensive nucleus together teams will have 6 months to find a weakness to exploit. Like I said 8 of 11 are returning at least and same DC.

Oz knows they system, and runs it well. 7 starts is not enough to pay him top dollar but he is the best option if Elway is in the win now mode with our high priced vets and vaulted defense.

[Cugel]

The Cowboys have better odds?

:laugh:

If you thought that was funny, wait a week, and if Osweiler signs elsewhere the odds are going to drop like a rock and Denver will be at 40-1 or worse. They'll be down with the Lions and Redskins and Jaguars at 50-1 or 60-1.

[Cugel]

IMO if Oz leaves we may lose the division in 2016.

That will be because we have a new QB who will be learning a new system and a couple starters on defense. Teams will be studying this defense all off season and into the season to find weak links. If you are in the AFC West the only team you will study is the Broncos as leader of the AFC west. I doubt we will see comeback against the Pats and Cinci or Steelers again like we did this year with our offense.

Even if you keep defensive nucleus together teams will have 6 months to find a weakness to exploit. Like I said 8 of 11 are returning at least and same DC.

Oz knows they system, and runs it well. 7 starts is not enough to pay him top dollar but he is the best option if Elway is in the win now mode with our high priced vets and vaulted defense.

Of course Osweiler is the best option and the Broncos might lose the division if he leaves. Hell, they might lose the division if he stays, because the Chiefs are a good team and getting better.

But, the question is "is it worth giving Osweiler a $15+ million a year contract for 2 years with $30M guaranteed, in order to keep him?" What would that do to the overall team structure?

Would losing Osweiler hurt worse than losing other FAs they are trying to re-sign? IN short, at what price Osweiler?

[Lancane]

If Elway is unsure about Osweiler as the long-term option as Charlie Campbell suggested, the at this point it makes sense for Elway to move up in the draft for one of the top three and sign a capable veteran for a year or two, though I am not sure it helps the team's odds to repeat.

[NightTerror218]

Of course Osweiler is the best option and the Broncos might lose the division if he leaves. Hell, they might lose the division if he stays, because the Chiefs are a good team and getting better.

But, the question is "is it worth giving Osweiler a $15+ million a year contract for 2 years with $30M guaranteed, in order to keep him?" What would that do to the overall team structure?

Would losing Osweiler hurt worse than losing other FAs they are trying to re-sign? IN short, at what price Osweiler?

Yes because then you are in the ultimate unknown for QB. Brock is more proven then a rookie at end of 1st round or 2nd round. Also this FA
QB class is so weak.

Signing Oz to that and no more Manning is still a net gain in cap space. And who the hell offers a 2 year contract fully guarenteed

[NightTerror218]

If Elway is unsure about Osweiler as the long-term option as Charlie Campbell suggested, the at this point it makes sense for Elway to move up in the draft for one of the top three and sign a capable veteran for a year or two.

At the cost of next year's first round pick and several 2nd round and other picks. It's that expensive to move up as high as we need too.

He would have to be trading up for Lynch if he is going to take one. Moving into top 5 would cost us way to much.

[Cugel]

If Elway is unsure about Osweiler as the long-term option as Charlie Campbell suggested, the at this point it makes sense for Elway to move up in the draft for one of the top three and sign a capable veteran for a year or two.

He would need a top 7 pick. That's almost totally impossible for Denver to move that high.

And not every expert is sold on Wenz, Jared Goff or Paxton Lynch. You might wind up like the Redskins who gave up multiple #1 draft picks to move up from around 20 to #2 and get RGIII. That mistake is still crippling their team, long after the coach and GM were both fired.

Even to try is absurdly difficult:

#1 pick = 3000 points.

#5 pick = 1700

#31 pick = 600.

Teams normally pay a premium to move up that much too. So, 3 #1 picks to move up that high in the draft? Or starting caliber players and multiple #1 picks?

All I can say is that Denver would be giving up a TON. I'll predict that Elway does not try and do this and that if he does it won't work, he won't be able to swing the trade.

They'd be much better off waiting until the 2nd round and them moving up if they see a QB fall who they like as a developmental prospect. Then they'd have to find a veteran to start for a couple of years until the rookie is ready.

Not an ideal circumstance for a defending SB champion.

[Lancane]

At the cost of next year's first round pick and several 2nd round and other picks. It's that expensive to move up as high as we need too.

He would have to be trading up for Lynch if he is going to take one. Moving into top 5 would cost us way to much.

The Broncos called Lynch's High School Coach to ask about him just a week or so ago. The Broncos have been talking to others about him as well. So there is something in that.

[Tned]

Of course Osweiler is the best option and the Broncos might lose the division if he leaves. Hell, they might lose the division if he stays, because the Chiefs are a good team and getting better.

But, the question is "is it worth giving Osweiler a $15+ million a year contract for 2 years with $30M guaranteed, in order to keep him?" What would that do to the overall team structure?

Would losing Osweiler hurt worse than losing other FAs they are trying to re-sign? IN short, at what price Osweiler?

I'll be surprised if Osweiler signs a two year deal. Whether with Broncos or elsewhere, I'll be surprised if it isn't at least three, and probably four.

[Lancane]

He would need a top 7 pick. That's almost totally impossible for Denver to move that high.

And not every expert is sold on Wenz, Jared Goff or Paxton Lynch. You might wind up like the Redskins who gave up multiple #1 draft picks to move up from around 20 to #2 and get RGIII. That mistake is still crippling their team, long after the coach and GM were both fired.

Even to try is absurdly difficult:

#1 pick = 3000 points.

#5 pick = 1700

#31 pick = 600.

Teams normally pay a premium to move up that much too. So, 3 #1 picks to move up that high in the draft? Or starting caliber players and multiple #1 picks?

All I can say is that Denver would be giving up a TON. I'll predict that Elway does not try and do this and that if he does it won't work, he won't be able to swing the trade.

They'd be much better off waiting until the 2nd round and them moving up if they see a QB fall who they like as a developmental prospect. Then they'd have to find a veteran to start for a couple of years until the rookie is ready.

Not an ideal circumstance for a defending SB champion.

I would agree if the roster was not so loaded with talent, if this was the 98' roster then hrll no, but two years without first round picks when the roster is talented ? Elway was going to trade their first pick for Thomas, if he was willing to go that direction then, I see it as plausible now.

[NightTerror218]

The Broncos called Lynch's High School Coach to ask about him just a week or so ago. The Broncos have been talking to others about him as well. So there is something in that.

If you look at reviews on lynch he is considered very raw like Oz and could use a year or so behind a vet. He has a high ceiling.

Wentz and Goff are the 2 other prime candidates for top QBS and neither is considered a slam dunk immediate starter.

I have heard more reports about Dak Preston who is a 2nd day possible pick.

[NightTerror218]

I would agree if the roster was not so loaded with talent, if this was the 98' roster then hrll no, but two years without first round picks when the roster is talented ? Elway was going to trade their first pick for Thomas, if he was willing to go that direction then, I see it as plausible now.

But this offseason and next offseason has half the roster going FA. Willing to lose 8 draft picks to move up? Or losing pro bowl players in trade?

[Zweems56]

So, I didn't read through this whole thread, but I really need you guys to understand... Jason Cole is a Grade A bullshitter.

[BroncoJoe]

Can someone recap this thread? I skipped from page 3 to page 6. Seemed like a lot of garbage being spewed around.

[GEM]

Happy Elway isn't willing to overpay for his services. Didn't he have a short college career? And only 7 starts in his time here so far? Let someone else overpay. I like Brock, but not at upper echelon money.

*EDIT* He played 25 college games. Pretty narrow body of work there as well.

[Dreadnought]

I suspect we have been watching maneuvering from both Elway and Os' agent for the past few days. No surprise there. I am still optimistic something gets done

[Ravage!!!]

It's not uppper echelon money

[Denver Native (Carol)]

DENVER - It’s one of the most debated questions in Broncos Country.

No, for once this is not about Peyton Manning. His eventual decision on whether to retire has no impact on this subject.

Is Brock Osweiler a franchise quarterback? The follow-up question is just as debate-worthy: How much is he worth?

The actions of John Elway and the Denver Broncos up to this point indicate uncertainty about both questions. Since the Broncos won the Super Bowl, Elway has said all of the right things about Osweiler. Elway’s statements suggest that Osweiler is a top priority and is desired by the team for the long-term future.

If that’s the case, why didn’t Elway and the Broncos attempt to re-sign Osweiler last offseason? Or, why didn’t the team jump at it when No. 17 played pretty well this season? When, in both instances, they could have gotten him for much cheaper.

Answer: Because they still aren’t sure.

Elway has said he doesn’t think this is the time for Osweiler’s big contract. That shows you Denver wants Osweiler to prove himself some more before they throw absurd money at him.

rest - http://www.thedenverchannel.com/sports/broncos/brock-osweilers-decision-comes-down-to-money-vs-success

very interesting article

[Ravage!!!]

It doesn't really say much. I think he keeps pressing the "why would he when we just won the Super Bowl without much play from the QB position?"

Because the VERY OBVIOUS answer is Elway knows that you can't rely on your defense to have that same kind of impact and not have an offense to back them up. Not if you really want to be contenders again.

[Davii]

It doesn't really say much. I think he keeps pressing the "why would he when we just won the Super Bowl without much play from the QB position?"

Because the VERY OBVIOUS answer is Elway knows that you can't rely on your defense to have that same kind of impact and not have an offense to back them up. Not if you really want to be contenders again.

Even if that's the case what tells you that Osweiler will be that guy? Nothing.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Troy Renck ‏@TroyRenck 1h

#Broncos want Osweiler back. But aren't close to a deal right now. But they want him back

[Ravage!!!]

Even if that's the case what tells you that Osweiler will be that guy? Nothing.

Of course not. Nothing is certain in life and certainly not in the NFL. There is NOTHING certain about the game nor any of the players.

[GEM]

It's not uppper echelon money

You know what other team's offers are? Wow...share the crystal ball.

[TXBRONC]

I suspect we have been watching maneuvering from both Elway and Os' agent for the past few days. No surprise there. I am still optimistic something gets done

I hope so Dread.

[DenBronx]

If we can get something done great. If not, go get 1 of the big 3!

[Slick]

It doesn't really say much. I think he keeps pressing the "why would he when we just won the Super Bowl without much play from the QB position?"

Because the VERY OBVIOUS answer is Elway knows that you can't rely on your defense to have that same kind of impact and not have an offense to back them up. Not if you really want to be contenders again.

You're always a contender if you have a great defense.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

DENVER — There were reports Thursday that the Denver Broncos have made a competitive and substantial offer to quarterback Brock Osweiler.

He went 5-2 as a starter during the team’s Super Bowl winning season.

No details about the offer have been given, but it sounds like the two sides will try to meet in the range of $12-16 million per season.

rest - http://kdvr.com/2016/03/03/reports-broncos-make-substantial-offer-to-quarterback-brock-osweiler/

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Jeff Legwold ‏@Jeff_Legwold 2h

Seeing this all day, but actually John Elway said at the combine last week that Brock Osweiler knew what the @Broncos offer to him was.

[DenBronx]

He had an awful 2 losses and got benched after what 5 turnovers his last game....on a SUPERBOWL defense?

Look, I like Brock but I don't get the hype of giving him over 16 mill. I'd rather see Malik and Brandon Marshall here.

I am starting to sound like a broken record.

[NightTerror218]

He had an awful 2 losses and got benched after what 5 turnovers his last game....on a SUPERBOWL defense?

Look, I like Brock but I don't get the hype of giving him over 16 mill. I'd rather see Malik and Brandon Marshall here.

I am starting to sound like a broken record.

Not all 5 TO were on him. Offense was not helping him and OL was terrible that game.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Not all 5 TO were on him. Offense was not helping him and OL was terrible that game.
He made a few mistakes, but overall he played well. Didn't he have over 200 yards passing in the first half?

[TXBRONC]

I hope this report isn't true. I can't see any way Elway (based on his comments) will give him that much.

I'm sure he won't. From what has been said of Elway is that he is fair.

[Dapper Dan]

X team offers X player less than they want. I'm guessing that happens often. :lol:

[Lancane]

You know what other team's offers are? Wow...share the crystal ball.

It's not GEM, in the age of shared information it's easy to find out, but elite money is 19 million plus, solid starter money 13 to 18 mil. though Brady and Manning have played for less, either because the team forced them to (Manning) or for their team (Brady). There are only a few elite echelon quarterbacks; Brady, Rivers, Luck, Rodgers, etc. so it's confusing when some like Palmer, Dalton and Romo make similar money, but that is due to the need of the position within the league. Elway just said he considers 12 to 15 mil. About middle of the road for quarterbacks, and Brock is asking for 16, or at least his agent is.

[Cugel]

It now appears that Osweiler will not sign any contract prior to the end of FA. That means the probability of his returning went from very high to about 50-50.

It all depends now on what other QB desperate teams will offer. If any team considers Brock an average NFL starter they will offer him average NFL Starter money, which is at least $15 million a year on a two year guaranteed contract.

And the Broncos will not match that. And he'll walk.

If nobody steps up and offers Osweiler that kind of money, he'll stay.

I think Elway believes he can replace Osweiler with some other stiff and do just as well.

I think he's wrong, but we'll see. I can't pretend that I know more about QB evaluation than Elway.

I have no idea what he saw from Osweiler this season that makes Elway think he's not going to be a good QB.

I just flat don't agree with his decision to let Osweiler get away. But, obviously, he doesn't think Osweiler will be that great in the NFL or he would never let this happen. You just don't let a Pro-Bowl QB walk off your team because you don't want to pay him the average NFL salary.

So, he must not think Osweiler will become a Pro-Bowl QB. If he's wrong about this, everybody is going to be ripping him and throwing this in his face for the rest of his career.

Every time Brock does well, it will be a standing indictment of Elway. And every time Brock fails, it will be a vindication of Elway.

[Joel]

He won't replace Oz with a stiff, but 1) the bottom of the 1st and even 2nd has produced lots of great QBs and 2) we won't drop off the face of the earth just because we went one whole season with a subpar QB. I still think we'll re-sign Oz because he fits the team so well and it looks doubtful Jackson gets a penny from us.

We do have other good options though: It's not Oz or Bust. If push comes to shove we can probably trade up in the 1st or 2nd (though it may be harder if we traded away Baltimores high 5th round pick instead of our natural one: We don't HAVE a 4th.) And I don't mean by giving up MULTIPLE 1st round picks; after how that worked out with RGIII, Elway's not going to take a deal like that and few teams would be foolish enough to offer it.

[Lancane]

He won't replace Oz with a stiff, but 1) the bottom of the 1st and even 2nd has produced lots of great QBs and 2) we won't drop off the face of the earth just because we went one whole season with a subpar QB. I still think we'll re-sign Oz because he fits the team so well and it looks doubtful Jackson gets a penny from us.

We do have other good options though: It's not Oz or Bust. If push comes to shove we can probably trade up in the 1st or 2nd (though it may be harder if we traded away Baltimores high 5th round pick instead of our natural one: We don't HAVE a 4th.) And I don't mean by giving up MULTIPLE 1st round picks; after how that worked out with RGIII, Elway's not going to take a deal like that and few teams would be foolish enough to offer it.

Don't count out Denver trading up in the draft, Elway knows the importance of the position or he'd not have gone after Manning or taken Brock that same year in the 2nd Round. I know there was talk about Dak Prescott, but Denver showed just as much interest in Wentz, but as I stated earlier they seem focused (quietly) on Lynch. As to your suggestion about great quarterbacks being found at the end of the first and into the second rounds, there is truth to that but nine times out of ten we're talking smaller programs not known for producing quarterbacks, Wilson is a rarity and chances of finding the next Brees, Favre or Montana is doubtful. If Osweiler isn't signed by the 8th then I'll be a little worried. But at that point I'd rather see them trade up for Paxton Lynch then let RGIII near this team.

[Northman]

rest - http://www.thedenverchannel.com/sports/broncos/brock-osweilers-decision-comes-down-to-money-vs-success

very interesting article

The article is spot on.

[Northman]

Don't count out Denver trading up in the draft, Elway knows the importance of the position or he'd not have gone after Manning or taken Brock that same year in the 2nd Round. I know there was talk about Dak Prescott, but Denver showed just as much interest in Wentz, but as I stated earlier they seem focused (quietly) on Lynch. As to your suggestion about great quarterbacks being found at the end of the first and into the second rounds, there is truth to that but nine times out of ten we're talking smaller programs not known for producing quarterbacks, Wilson is a rarity and chances of finding the next Brees, Favre or Montana is doubtful. If Osweiler isn't signed by the 8th then I'll be a little worried. But at that point I'd rather see them trade up for Paxton Lynch then let RGIII near this team.

I would rather Denver grab Cook (who is far more within reach draft wise) or take a guy like Hogan later in the draft. Then just go and sign a vet to compete with Cook and Simien to see who can lead this team to hopefully another championship run. I really dont see the need to move that far up for Wentz and im not sold on Dak at all.

[Valar Morghulis]

I would rather Denver grab Cook (who is far more within reach draft wise) or take a guy like Hogan later in the draft. Then just go and sign a vet to compete with Cook and Simien to see who can lead this team to hopefully another championship run. I really dont see the need to move that far up for Wentz and im not sold on Dak at all.

Yeah, I'm quite high on cook and I can't believe Hogan is projected as a sixth rounder

[TXBRONC]

The article is spot on.

I think last two questions in the article frame it the best. "Take the money and worse situation? or Take less money and better situation?" It seems that agents are more inclined to push their clients to take the money and a worse situation rather than stay with situation that gives the client best chance to prosper. Writer is spot on if Osweiler were stay and do well Elway will give him that big payday.

[TXBRONC]

I would rather Denver grab Cook (who is far more within reach draft wise) or take a guy like Hogan later in the draft. Then just go and sign a vet to compete with Cook and Simien to see who can lead this team to hopefully another championship run. I really dont see the need to move that far up for Wentz and im not sold on Dak at all.

So far Elway's m.o. has been to pretty much to let draft come to him. In four years he hasn't made a huge move up the draft order to take a player.

[Dreadnought]

I think last two questions in the article frame it the best. "Take the money and worse situation? or Take less money and better situation?" It seems that agents are more inclined to push their clients to take the money and a worse situation rather than stay with situation that gives the client best chance to prosper. Writer is spot on if Osweiler were stay and do well Elway will give him that big payday.

Agents generally work on a percentage of the contract, so this should be a shock to no one.

[artie_dale]

Well, considering the X's & O's, the X being that Elway doesn't want to pay Brock Starting QB Pay ($16M+), whether because they don't think he deserves it yet or they can't afford to pay the questionable position that much yet, pretty much leaves Siemen (the O) (is that how it's spelled?) as our best option for the price. If they think he can be the guy, might as well start developing him now. Can't beat starter experience, right?

[TXBRONC]

Agents generally work on a percentage of the contract, so this should be a shock to no one.

I know and I understand why players use agents to do this for them but ultimately it's the player's decision.

[TXBRONC]

Well, considering the X's & O's, the X being that Elway doesn't want to pay Brock Starting QB Pay ($16M+), whether because they don't think he deserves it yet or they can't afford to pay the questionable position that much yet, pretty much leaves Siemen (the O) (is that how it's spelled?) as our best option for the price. If they think he can be the guy, might as well start developing him now. Can't beat starter experience, right?

Siemian stands benefit by moving up the depth chart I'm not sure it would be all the way to the top. He would have to just kill it from OTAs all the way through camp.

[NightTerror218]

He won't replace Oz with a stiff, but 1) the bottom of the 1st and even 2nd has produced lots of great QBs and 2) we won't drop off the face of the earth just because we went one whole season with a subpar QB. I still think we'll re-sign Oz because he fits the team so well and it looks doubtful Jackson gets a penny from us.

We do have other good options though: It's not Oz or Bust. If push comes to shove we can probably trade up in the 1st or 2nd (though it may be harder if we traded away Baltimores high 5th round pick instead of our natural one: We don't HAVE a 4th.) And I don't mean by giving up MULTIPLE 1st round picks; after how that worked out with RGIII, Elway's not going to take a deal like that and few teams would be foolish enough to offer it.

Considered a weak QB class. No homerun QBs and lots of projects.

[NightTerror218]

Siemian stands benefit by moving up the depth chart I'm not sure it would be all the way to the top. He would have to just kill it from OTAs all the way through camp.

Maybe, unless he is replaced by a late round QB. Just like our last 7th round QB.

[TXBRONC]

Maybe, unless he is replaced by a late round QB. Just like our last 7th round QB.

That depends on how far Siemian come. If he is shows progress it's unlikely that he would lose out to another late round/udfa quarterback.

[Slick]

Elway then was asked whether he has the impression Osweiler would take less to stay in Denver.

“I think as a quarterback, and I tell you looking it as a quarterback and not looking at it as Brock, and I’m not looking at it from being a G.M. of the Broncos,” Elway said. “But if I look at Brock Osweiler, if I’m in his shoes, I look at a place where I could be successful and in a system that fits me. And I will tell you this now, and I’m putting on my G.M. hat, I think we do have a system that fits Brock very well. So for Brock to have continued success, I don’t think will be, this won’t be his big contract, but this will be a contract where he’ll be able to make very good money and be able to prove himself that could lead to that next big contract.”

John isn't going to pay Brock big bucks.

[NightTerror218]

That depends on how far Siemian come. If he is shows progress it's unlikely that he would lose out to another late round/udfa quarterback.

Make sense that our 3rd stringer is a late round develpment QB. And it is always a long long long shot for them to remain on roster or be 2nd string.

[Ravage!!!]

John isn't going to pay Brock big bucks.

But you don't know what John considers to be 'big bucks' compared to what you do. WHat is the number that John considers to be the price that is worth the risk/gamble for a starting QB? Do you know that answer?

[Northman]

But you don't know what John considers to be 'big bucks' compared to what you do. WHat is the number that John considers to be the price that is worth the risk/gamble for a starting QB? Do you know that answer?

To be fair John did state that he i willing to give Brock more money but not the "big" payday he will eventually get if he can prove he is worth it. So based off that comment i would venture to say at this time John isnt willing to break the bank for Brock at this time. We already know what Brock is looking for and John isnt willing to go there and feels 16 mil is too much at this time.

[Slick]

But you don't know what John considers to be 'big bucks' compared to what you do. WHat is the number that John considers to be the price that is worth the risk/gamble for a starting QB? Do you know that answer?

That quote tells me he isn't going to pay Brock Andy Dalton money.

[Ravage!!!]

To be fair John did state that he i willing to give Brock more money but not the "big" payday he will eventually get if he can prove he is worth it. So based off that comment i would venture to say at this time John isnt willing to break the bank for Brock at this time. We already know what Brock is looking for and John isnt willing to go there and feels 16 mil is too much at this time.

Agreed. We've seen a few public statements, but do we knwo the number that John is willing to pull completely away? What is "too much?" What is "big bucks" in John's perspective? I honestly don't know the answer.

[Northman]

Agreed. We've seen a few public statements, but do we knwo the number that John is willing to pull completely away? What is "too much?" What is "big bucks" in John's perspective? I honestly don't know the answer.

Well we do know 16mil is too much otherwise he would of just given the guy the money. If 16mil is average for a starting QB than John is clearly not comfortable with that number right now. I think if i recall the only number we know coming out of Denver is 12-13 mil range? They may settle somewhere on 14-15 but clearly 16 is beyond what he seems to be willing to pay right now.

[Slick]

I also think if Brock's agent won't budge, John's plan B would be to keep as much of the defense together as he can, basically everyone except Trevathan, and make something happen on draft day.

[LTC Pain]

I also think if Brock's agent won't budge, John's plan B would be to keep as much of the defense together as he can, basically everyone except Trevathan, and make something happen on draft day.

Maybe Reggie Ragland in the first, if he drops to #31 (doubtful), or Scooby Wright in the 2nd round?

[Slick]

Maybe Reggie Ragland in the first, if he drops to #31 (doubtful), or Scooby Wright in the 2nd round?

Not if Brock isn't re-signed.

[Hawgdriver]

that dude is god awful. . .

I thaaht he was from Haavud. Doesn't that make him gaahd awfal?

[tripp]

So the reports that Broncos gave Brock another "significant" offer was shut down again by Brock?

[TXBRONC]

I also think if Brock's agent won't budge, John's plan B would be to keep as much of the defense together as he can, basically everyone except Trevathan, and make something happen on draft day.

I think that is actually plan A. That's just one of the reasons he won't give Osweiler a huge contract at this time.

[Ravage!!!]

I think that is actually plan A. That's just one of the reasons he won't give Osweiler a huge contract at this time.

Pretty risky if that is the plan.

[TXBRONC]

Pretty risky if that is the plan.

It's been out there for awhile Elway is willing to pay and think and it seems likely that it's because he's trying in part to keep as much of defense in tact as he can. Also Osweiler is going have to prove himself before he'll get the big money from the Broncos.

[Ravage!!!]

It's been out there for awhile Elway is willing to pay and think and it seems likely that it's because he's trying in part to keep as much of defense in tact as he can. Also Osweiler is going have to prove himself before he'll get the big money from the Broncos.

Yes.. I understand the reasons for trying to keep salaries down. But just going with a draft pick to take over the reigning Super Bowl championship team, is extremely risky. Brock isn't nearly as a "prove yourself" project as that would be.

[Mike]

Pretty risky if that is the plan.

Not really. We just proved that the SB can be one with no offensive production. It's not likely to happen again, but I don't think the Broncos are likely to win the SB next year with or without Brock.

I think giving Brock a big contract and potentially hamstringing the organization is not a risk worth taking when the chances of repeating are slim anyways.

[Northman]

Repeating is tough as it is, not many teams go back to back.

[tripp]

Good post by MHR


http://www.milehighreport.com/2016/3/4/11154266/brock-osweilers-contract-should-not-have-anything-to-do-with-bradford-cousins


Talks about how over paying for Oz would be incredibly irresponsible by the Broncos FO, and how he does NOT deserve anything north of 12 mill. Good read for those like myself who are on the fence about Brock's future here in Denver.

[Lancane]

Good post by MHR


http://www.milehighreport.com/2016/3/4/11154266/brock-osweilers-contract-should-not-have-anything-to-do-with-bradford-cousins


Talks about how over paying for Oz would be incredibly irresponsible by the Broncos FO, and how he does NOT deserve anything north of 12 mill. Good read for those like myself who are on the fence about Brock's future here in Denver.

Well the biggest problem for Elway and company is they'll have to make a choice, one which could backfire. Each team in the AFCW is improving rapidly, even keeping the defense intact doesn't look good long-term since we lost to two teams within the division, if the offense remains stagnant and the defense is marginally the same the question will be how did the team improve.

[Slick]

Not really. We just proved that the SB can be one with no offensive production. It's not likely to happen again, but I don't think the Broncos are likely to win the SB next year with or without Brock.

I think giving Brock a big contract and potentially hamstringing the organization is not a risk worth taking when the chances of repeating are slim anyways.

Agreed. Denver isn't screwed if they don't sign Brock.

Elway drafted him and knows what he sees and what he's willing to pay. He is basically using the media to tell Brock, you might get more elsewhere but you won't be on a team as loaded as this one.

[Ravage!!!]

Not really. We just proved that the SB can be one with no offensive production. It's not likely to happen again, but I don't think the Broncos are likely to win the SB next year with or without Brock.

I think giving Brock a big contract and potentially hamstringing the organization is not a risk worth taking when the chances of repeating are slim anyways.

Sure it is.

[MOtorboat]

Good post by MHR


http://www.milehighreport.com/2016/3/4/11154266/brock-osweilers-contract-should-not-have-anything-to-do-with-bradford-cousins


Talks about how over paying for Oz would be incredibly irresponsible by the Broncos FO, and how he does NOT deserve anything north of 12 mill. Good read for those like myself who are on the fence about Brock's future here in Denver.

$12 million is the most Denver should go. It's a comparable price for other unproven veteran quarterbacks getting their first shot and it doesn't put the Broncos into too much salary cap problems. If he deserves an elite contract in two or three years then give it to him, but he doesn't deserve it now.

[BroncoJoe]

$12 million is the most Denver should go. It's a comparable price for other unproven veteran quarterbacks getting their first shot and it doesn't put the Broncos into too much salary cap problems. If he deserves an elite contract in two or three years then give it to him, but he doesn't deserve it now.

I said something similar months ago - even before he had started a few games for us - and was lambasted for saying something so absurd.

[LTC Pain]

Well the biggest problem for Elway and company is they'll have to make a choice, one which could backfire. Each team in the AFCW is improving rapidly, even keeping the defense intact doesn't look good long-term since we lost to two teams within the division, if the offense remains stagnant and the defense is marginally the same the question will be how did the team improve.

The Chargers aren't improving rapidly.

[MOtorboat]

I said something similar months ago - even before he had started a few games for us - and was lambasted for saying something so absurd.

Well, I don't think he deserved a $12 million a year contract until he got some starts, so four months ago, I would have said it should be lower.

[tubby]

I said something similar months ago - even before he had started a few games for us - and was lambasted for saying something so absurd.

Think about what you just said.

[NightTerror218]

Well, I don't think he deserved a $12 million a year contract until he got some starts, so four months ago, I would have said it should be lower.

$12 million guarenteed or total potential cap hit.

[MOtorboat]

$12 million guarenteed or total potential cap hit.

Cap hit.

I would offer 3 years, $36 million, $15 guaranteed, a cap hit that averages $12 a year and ends up being a little backloaded, so year one the cap hit is $10, then $12 then $14.

[Tned]

Cap hit.

I would offer 3 years, $36 million, $15 guaranteed, a cap hit that averages $12 a year and ends up being a little backloaded, so year one the cap hit is $10, then $12 then $14.

This is what I posted a few weeks ago and I still think is where he'll wind up, whether with Denver or elsewhere. Could actually get a little higher for a QB desperate team, but I think this is the range.


Well, I don't know any family members, but I would expect something in the 4 year (could be three, and unlikely, but possible five) range and would expect it to be $12-14 a year with about 1/3 of it guaranteed. So, let's say 4 years, $50 million with $18-20 million guaranteed. Something in the range of Nick Foles, but with more years, and percentage wise, not as much guaranteed.

Pure speculation on my part, but this is what I would be expecting. I think we could see a low of about $10 a year, but unlikely, and a high of $15 or so, but also unlikely. I think 12-14 is about right in order to keep him off the free agent market and preserve the Broncos investment in him.

[Cugel]

Look! Let's be honest about this!

This isn't about what Brock has proved or what he's "worth" based on his performance. All that is total CRAP!

This is about the future. Period. :coffee:

Simple question: Three years from now, is Brock Osweiler going to be considered a $20-$22M a year, top 10 QB . . . or Not?

This is a "yes" or "no" question. And there's NO WAFFLING. Elway has to make a decision in the next few days. And NO EXCUSES will be accepted if Brock goes elsewhere and 3 years from now they're saying "wow! That Osweiler kid is really great! Looks good hoisting that Lombardi Trophy for the L.A. Rams."

NOBODY is going to listen to Elway whining that "we didn't know." He'd be like the imbecile Atlanta Falcons GM who let Brett Favre go to Green Bay.

So, Elway has to have stones of steel and make the tough call. THIS moment is why they pay him the big bucks!

It doesn't matter what Osweiler is worth THIS season. All that matters is what he will be worth in 2 or 3 more years. IF you think that at that point, he will be a top 10 QB, then you have to pay him whatever it takes to make sure he's still on your roster then, no matter whether you have to overpay him now or not.

He's supposed to be a great evaluator of QB talent. He's had 4 years to look at Brock. While other teams and the fans have only seen Brock in a few regular season games, and a couple pre-season games a year where he looked pretty good against current Wall-Mart loading dock guys, Elway has seen him in meetings, in the locker room, he's watched him in closed practices, he's talked to him in the off-season and watched him during training camp.

He's had 4 years to answer the simple question: "Is this kid a future top 10 QB in this league who can take a team to the SB."

Frankly, based on what I saw this past season, I'd say "Hell yes!" I'd say: "Osweiler is their future franchise QB and they have to sign him, no matter what it costs, because it's not about what he's worth this season based on his limited performance. It's about what he will become in 2 or 3 years."

If he's Joe Flacco, then NO, they can't let him get away now, because he hasn't proven it yet.

But, Elway has a different opinion. Elway clearly thinks Brock is mediocre. They had a chance to re-sign him last year for about $5-$6 M a year last season (according to Mike Klis). They could have re-negotiated his salary to lock him up during this season once he became a starter.

Instead Elway made his $12 M tops offer and is letting Osweiler walk.

Effectively, Elway is saying "no matter what nice things we may say about Osweiler, we view him as a $12-13 M Qb who is essentially MEDIOCRE. We do not see him becoming a top 10 QB in the next few seasons. Because if we did, no way in Hell would we ever let him get away."

But, mediocre? That you can replace.

All I can say is Elway is the QB expert. He's the guy who knows everything there is to know about The QB position.

So, he'd better be right on this one.

[slim]

I would think his options will be limited. How many teams realistically will offer him a large contract?

Cleveland? He would be fool to go to Cleveland.

The Jets may make an offer, but I suspect they would prefer to have Fitz back.

Maybe LA?

[MOtorboat]

Look! Let's be honest about this!

This isn't about what Brock has proved or what he's "worth" based on his performance. All that is total CRAP!

This is about the future. Period. :coffee:

Simple question: Three years from now, is Brock Osweiler going to be considered a $20-$22M a year, top 10 QB . . . or Not?

This is a "yes" or "no" question. And there's NO WAFFLING. Elway has to make a decision in the next few days. And NO EXCUSES will be accepted if Brock goes elsewhere and 3 years from now they're saying "wow! That Osweiler kid is really great! Looks good hoisting that Lombardi Trophy for the L.A. Rams."

NOBODY is going to listen to Elway whining that "we didn't know." He'd be like the imbecile Atlanta Falcons GM who let Brett Favre go to Green Bay.

So, Elway has to have stones of steel and make the tough call. THIS moment is why they pay him the big bucks!

He's supposed to be a great evaluator of QB talent. He's had 4 years to look at Brock. While other teams and the fans have only seen Brock in a few regular season games, and a couple pre-season games a year where he looked pretty good against current Wall-Mart loading dock guys. Elway has seen him in meetings, in the locker room, he's watched him in closed practices, he's talked to him in the off-season and watched him during training camp.

He's had 4 years to answer the simple question: "Is this kid a future top 10 QB in this league who can take a team to the SB."

Frankly, based on what I saw this past season, I'd say "Hell yes!" I'd say: "Osweiler is their future franchise QB and they have to sign him, no matter what it costs, because it's not about what he's worth this season based on his limited performance. It's about what he will become in 2 or 3 years."

If he's Joe Flacco, then NO, they can't let him get away now, because he hasn't proven it yet.

But, Elway has a different opinion. Elway clearly thinks Brock is mediocre. They had a chance to re-sign him last year for about $5-$6 M a year last season (according to Mike Klis). They could have re-negotiated his salary to lock him up during this season once he became a starter.

Instead Elway made his $12 M tops offer and is letting Osweiler walk.

Effectively, Elway is saying "no matter what nice things we may say about Osweiler, we view him as a $12-13 M Qb who is essentially MEDIOCRE. We do not see him becoming a top 10 QB in the next few seasons. Because if we did, no way in Hell would we ever let him get away."

But, mediocre? That you can replace.

All I can say is Elway is the QB expert. He's the guy who knows everything there is to know about The QB position.

So, he'd better be right on this one.

Lol. Pitchforks!

[Cugel]

Lol. Pitchforks!

You don't get it at all! I can't possibly know more about how to judge Brock Osweiler than John Elway. No way in Hell.

I'm telling the truth. If he gets this wrong, nobody will ever forgive him.

This is a tough call. Brock has only played in 7 games. We just can't be sure how good Brock will be.

But, Elway HAS to know! He just has to. That's his job; to make evaluations based on limited evidence and GET THE CALL RIGHT!

Up till now he's done a great job. He's identified talent and brought it in (like Emanuel Sanders). He's let over-priced mediocre talent go - like LG Zane Beadles, who was given a $5M a year contract by the Jacksonville Jaguars, and was released today by Jacksonville.

But, everything depends on this decision. If he lets Osweiler walk, we cannot be looking up 2 years from now as Osweiler turns out to be great.

Elway thinks Osweiler is mediocre. OK. Who am I to say he's wrong? He's forgotten more about QB play than any fan will ever know.

It's sad actually that Osweiler won't get the chance to start in Denver, but Elway is determined not to over-pay for a mediocre guy.

He just has to be damn well sure that he really IS mediocre and won't be spraying champagne for some other team.

[LTC Pain]

BSN Denver is reporting that the Broncos have offered Oz $39M over three years. IMHO, the Broncos shouldn't go any higher or longer.

http://bsndenver.com/sources-broncos-offer-brock-osweiler-nearly-40-million-over-three-years/

[MOtorboat]

You don't get it at all! I can't possibly know more about how to judge Brock Osweiler than John Elway. No way in Hell.

I'm telling the truth. If he gets this wrong, nobody will ever forgive him.

This is a tough call. Brock has only played in 7 games. We just can't be sure how good Brock will be.

But, Elway HAS to know! He just has to. That's his job; to make evaluations based on limited evidence and GET THE CALL RIGHT!

Up till now he's done a great job. He's identified talent and brought it in (like Emanuel Sanders). He's let over-priced mediocre talent go - like LG Zane Beadles, who was given a $5M a year contract by the Jacksonville Jaguars, and was released today by Jacksonville.

But, everything depends on this decision. If he lets Osweiler walk, we cannot be looking up 2 years from now as Osweiler turns out to be great.

Elway thinks Osweiler is mediocre. OK. Who am I to say he's wrong? He's forgotten more about QB play than any fan will ever know.

It's sad actually that Osweiler won't get the chance to start in Denver, but Elway is determined not to over-pay for a mediocre guy.

He just has to be damn well sure that he really IS mediocre and won't be spraying champagne for some other team.

Are you Joe Ellis and if you are, shouldn't you be doing something else than posting on the Internet?

[Cugel]

According to multiple sources, on Tuesday, the Denver Broncos offered quarterback Brock Osweiler a $39 million contract over three years. The amount of guaranteed money included is not known at the time but one source told BSN Denver, “The majority of the first two years would be guaranteed.”

Contract negotiations can sway dramatically from day to day, so we have to assume that the deal could have changed since then, but likely not much.

On Friday, one source told BSN Denver that the Broncos, “May have reached their ceiling,” in the Osweiler negotiations, adding that they have been in, “Intense talks all week.” It sounds like the club wouldn’t be willing to go much higher than the current amount proposed but are very serious about keeping Osweiler around.

“This is a unique situation because Osweiler could enter free agency as the most coveted free agent QB in football with only seven games under his belt,” the source said.

Broncos-tickets-728

This deal would put Osweiler above Nick Foles ($12.27M) in quarterback salaries but below Andy Dalton ($16M) on that list. Regardless, it would be a big pay day for the man who made only $660,000 in 2015.

The idea behind a deal like this would be that Brock Osweiler gets compensated nicely for his current trajectory but isn’t stuck in a long-term deal that doesn’t pay him the franchise money that he thinks he’s worth. Instead, both sides compromise and Osweiler gets to prove his worth and rework his deal in a few years if he turns out to be the franchise quarterback.

The Broncos will certainly be looking to get this deal done before Monday when the rest of the league can begin negotiating with Osweiler.

Exactly what I said. $12-$13 M a year - NOT $15M a year plus, which is what his agent thinks he's worth.

$12-13 M a year says "we don't think you are an elite QB." $16 M a year says "we think you will be a top QB in this league and we need to lock you up."

If this report is true Osweiler is gone as soon as he receives a better offer. There's a HUGE difference between a $39 M and a $48M contract.

I'm not saying that what the Broncos are offering is wrong. If Elway's right and Brock is mediocre, it's a very fair, more than fair deal.

If Brock is right and he's a future top 10 QB it's ridiculous. Elway is making a call and sticking to his guns on this.

[MOtorboat]

Cugel is right!

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Colin Cowherd: Hey Brock Osweiler, keep riding the wave with the Denver Broncos! #HerdHere

https://www.facebook.com/TheHerd/videos/1792062567681601/

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Troy Renck ‏@TroyRenck 29m

Peyton Manning not asked to take physical; #Broncos focus on signing Brock Osweiler: http://dpo.st/21OIc9X
via @troyrenck

[Lancane]

It's in Brock's court, I understand both sides of the fence. And if I was Osweiler, I'd take it. If he puts up Pro-Bowl numbers the fans will be on his side and that three year deal could turn into a huge extension come the third year. This is why I was so adamant about Elway extendind him last off-season, which would saved the team this season.

[dogfish]

I would think his options will be limited. How many teams realistically will offer him a large contract?

Cleveland? He would be fool to go to Cleveland.

The Jets may make an offer, but I suspect they would prefer to have Fitz back.

Maybe LA?

houston's another possibility. . .

[NightTerror218]

It's in Brock's court, I understand both sides of the fence. And if I was Osweiler, I'd take it. If he puts up Pro-Bowl numbers the fans will be on his side and that three year deal could turn into a huge extension come the third year. This is why I was so adamant about Elway extendind him last off-season, which would saved the team this season.

The first 2 years having most of the guarentees is a nice olive branch from elway.

Other teams may not offer huge guarantees but a big contract with huge incentives that could make it worth a lot. 3 yr $39 M with $24M (or something) guarenteed seen as $13M a year verse a 4 yr $60M with same guarentees seen at $15M a year.

[Simple Jaded]

Wonder what Kyle Orton is doing these days, I mean besides chuggin from bottles of Jack.

[TXBRONC]

houston's another possibility. . .

Cleveland might be another possibility.

[DenBronx]

So we reportedly offered Brock 40 mill over 3 years. He should take the money and stay but I suspect he will still test the market. That might test Elways patience.

[underrated29]

13 mil a year? Ya, he's not going to get better than that anywhere else. He'll be back and everyone will be better for it.

[sneakers]

There is nothing about Fitzpatrick that intrigues me.

he does look like Episode III Obi-Wan Kenobi

[Lancane]

he does look like Episode III Obi-Wan Kenobi

And Vader kicked his @$$!

[Northman]

Denver's offer is more than fair.

[TXBRONC]

Denver's offer is more than fair.

I agree it's more than a fair offer.

[Cugel]

Reality is starting to stare Broncos fans in the face, and it's a butt-ugly reality:

#1 - NO player is going to "take the team" and forego something like $9 M over a 3 year contract - and that's the difference between $13M a year and $16M a year. So, if Osweiler gets a better offer, and it now looks virtually certain that he will, then he's gone.

#2 - If the Broncos don't re-sign Brock, their chances of repeating as SB champion just went out the window in my view, and Vegas'. You will see the Broncos immediately drop to a 40-1 long-shot if Osweiler walks. They are already 20-1 long-shots - almost solely because of the QB uncertainty. If they re-sign Brock, expect to see the odds go up equally dramatically so that Denver would be in the top 3 or 4 teams.

#3 - The other QB options available are all horrible. Overpay for some stiff like RGIII? Give up a 1st or 2nd round draft pick to the 49ers in a desperate bid for Colin Kaepernick? What makes anybody think the 49ers will even deal him to Denver? Ryan Fitzpatrick? The Jets are going to keep him, even if they have to franchise him. They need him for a year or two while they find some young QB.

Draft a QB? Even if the Broncos could move up in the draft to grab one of the top 3 QB prospects (which they absolutely can't for reasons I've already explored in this thread - basically they'd be giving up multiple #1 picks and the other team would still be unlikely to want to trade all the way down to #31), now you get an UNCERTAIN QB prospect, who MIGHT be ready to start in 2 or 3 years. Who MIGHT be good or MIGHT be a bust, who knows? The draft is a total crap shoot.

Draft one of the lesser prospects in the 2nd or 3rd rounds? Even more of a crap shoot, and for certain that player won't be ready to start in 2016.

Start 7th round backup QB Trevor Seimian and draft a QB in the 2nd or 3rd round and develop him? Crap-shoot on top of crap-shoot!

Trevor Seimian is a backup. NObody thinks he's a starting caliber NFL QB and he has a LOT less experience than Osweiler had when he stepped on the field. Expecting him to start for the defending SB champion would be insane. Too much pressure.

#4 - the defense alone will NEVER win another SB championship. Did the '86 Bears, the 2001 Ravens or the 2003 Bucs repeat as champions? The Bears and Bucs have never been back, and the Ravens won another SB 13 years later - AFTER they had drafted Joe Flacco at #18 of the 1st round - and after they fired their coach and GM.

Grim thoughts on a cloudy Saturday morning as the Broncos stare into the abyss of their future.

[Valar Morghulis]

Reality is starting to stare Broncos fans in the face, and it's a butt-ugly reality: #1 - NO player is going to "take the team" and forego something like $9 M over a 3 year contract - and that's the difference between $13M a year and $16M a year. So, if Osweiler gets a better offer, and it now looks virtually certain that he will, then he's gone. #2 - If the Broncos don't re-sign Brock, their chances of repeating as SB champion just went out the window in my view, and Vegas'. You will see the Broncos immediately drop to a 40-1 long-shot if Osweiler walks. They are already 20-1 long-shots - almost solely because of the QB uncertainty. If they re-sign Brock, expect to see the odds go up equally dramatically so that Denver would be in the top 3 or 4 teams. #3 - The other QB options available are all horrible. Overpay for some stiff like RGIII? Give up a 1st or 2nd round draft pick to the 49ers in a desperate bid for Colin Kaepernick? What makes anybody think the 49ers will even deal him to Denver? Ryan Fitzpatrick? The Jets are going to keep him, even if they have to franchise him. They need him for a year or two while they find some young QB. Draft a QB? Even if the Broncos could move up in the draft to grab one of the top 3 QB prospects (which they absolutely can't for reasons I've already explored in this thread - basically they'd be giving up multiple #1 picks and the other team would still be unlikely to want to trade all the way down to #31), now you get an UNCERTAIN QB prospect, who MIGHT be ready to start in 2 or 3 years. Who MIGHT be good or MIGHT be a bust, who knows? The draft is a total crap shoot. Draft one of the lesser prospects in the 2nd or 3rd rounds? Even more of a crap shoot, and for certain that player won't be ready to start in 2016. Start 7th round backup QB Trevor Seimian and draft a QB in the 2nd or 3rd round and develop him? Crap-shoot on top of crap-shoot! Trevor Seimian is a backup. NObody thinks he's a starting caliber NFL QB and he has a LOT less experience than Osweiler had when he stepped on the field. Expecting him to start for the defending SB champion would be insane. Too much pressure. #4 - the defense alone will NEVER win another SB championship. Did the '86 Bears, the 2001 Ravens or the 2003 Bucs repeat as champions? The Bears and Bucs have never been back, and the Ravens won another SB 13 years later - AFTER they had drafted Joe Flacco at #18 of the 1st round - and after they fired their coach and GM. Grim thoughts on a cloudy Saturday morning as the Broncos stare into the abyss of their future.

I just don't share this pessimism

[Cugel]

The Newark Star-Ledger's Dom Cosentino expects Sam Bradford's two-year, $36 million contract to be a "blueprint" of sorts for free agent Ryan Fitzpatrick.
Bradford's deal is essentially a front-loaded one-year deal with a team option for the second season. Bradford is getting $22 million guaranteed in the form of an $11 million signing bonus, $7 million 2016 base salary, and $4 million 2017 roster bonus. With Bradford off the market, Fitzpatrick is the most established starting-caliber signal called left on it. The likelihood remains very strong that the Jets will work something out with him ahead of or shortly after March 9. Mar 2 - 9:58 AM

This is why Osweiler won't sign a team-friendly three year $39 M contract.

With Fitzpatrick expected to be off the market, signing a contract in the vicinity of a 2 year $36 M contract Osweiler immediately becomes by far the best QB option in FA.

Teams are going to overpay for Osweiler.

And if Elway doesn't want to overpay, then what is his plan? Does NOT look like there are any good options out there for Denver.

[Cugel]

I just don't share this pessimism

If Fitzpatrick is worth $18 M a year, then Osweiler's agent argues with reason, Osweiler is worth at least $15 M.

Some team like the Texans or the Rams is very likely to agree. The market for Osweiler is moving away from the Broncos. This was entirely predictable.

Every single year, the market for FA QBs is horrible and teams desperate for a QB scramble around trying to find one. Thus, they overpay.

The draft sucks and there are few good QB options, FA sucks and there are few good QB options and they are all over-paid.

It just sucks however you look at it. There are 32 teams in the NFL and there are not 32 good QBs in the world. More like about 12 or 13 good QBs, which leaves a lot of teams frantically searching every single year. That's the problem. And it's not getting better, it's getting worse as more and more colleges indulge in the spread offense, and college QBs become more and more specialized, and less and less like NFL QBs.

Of course, Osweiler could wind up being one of those mediocre QBs who struggle after being given a $16 M a year contract - like Matt Cassel.

But, more and more, I'm getting the view that Elway boxed himself into a corner because he didn't want to commit, didn't want to over-pay, wasn't sure about Osweiler.

But, now he's the defending SB champion and he's not only stuck without a QB, he doesn't even have any good options to FIND a QB who will be any good this season. In fact, the Broncos QB situation is likely to be just like it was in the early 2000's when they had a succession of mediocre to crap QBs -

Between 1999, the following QBs started at least 1 game for the Broncos:


1999 Brian Griese (13) / Chris Miller (3)
2000 Brian Griese (10) / Gus Frerotte (6)
2001 Brian Griese (15) / Gus Frerotte (1)
2002 Brian Griese (13) / Steve Beuerlein (3)
2003 Jake Plummer (11) / Steve Beuerlein (2) / Danny Kanell (2) / Jarious Jackson (1)
2004-05 Jake Plummer (16)
2006 Jake Plummer (11) / Jay Cutler (5)
2007 Jay Cutler (16)
2008 Jay Cutler (16)
2009 Kyle Orton (15) / Chris Simms (1)
2010 Kyle Orton (13) / Tim Tebow (3)
2011 Tim Tebow (11) / Kyle Orton (5)


:behindsofa:

[Cugel]

You see, knowing the horrible history of Broncos QBs between 1999 and 2012 when Manning arrived, I was hoping for something like this:

Since it's virtually impossible to find a really QB via FA or the draft and because teams can go for years desperately searching for one and not finding one the Broncos best option would be to pick a guy in the 2nd or 3rd round and groom him for maybe 3 years behind Manning, letting him learn how to play in this league, watching Manning and learning.

Then when Manning retired, that QB would be ready to step in and become a top 10 QB. His development wouldn't be hindered because the team would NOT have thrown him to the wolves by making him start too early when he wasn't ready.

Thus, the team would avoid the QB hell that so many other teams go through.

And I thought the Broncos had succeeded in doing that by drafting and developing Brock Osweiler.
%0

[MOtorboat]

I just don't share this pessimism

His predictions, and ultimatums, have been brutally wrong all year.

[Cugel]

His predictions, and ultimatums, have been brutally wrong all year.

If Osweiler signs a contract with the Broncos for around $13 M a year, I will happily admit I was wrong.

I wouldn't take that bet if I were you. :coffee:

[NightTerror218]

I wonder what the break down of contract offer is.

IMO I would like to see a nice amount for yr 1 of Oz's contract. Because he had to sit for 4 years behind Manning. Never really given a shot to be the man and have the team which could have cost him a huge contract. I just would like to see the olive branch from elway thank you for waiting here is a good contract and if you out play we will pay you more. Give him a couple Million more in year one to use more of his guarentees up, front loaded contract.

[LTC Pain]

If Osweiler signs a contract with the Broncos for around $13 M a year, I will happily admit I was wrong.

I wouldn't take that bet if I were you. :coffee:

You need to bet more often.

When you do, you're more succinct, abbreviated and to the point.

[MOtorboat]

If Osweiler signs a contract with the Broncos for around $13 M a year, I will happily admit I was wrong.

I wouldn't take that bet if I were you. :coffee:

It's not really a bet I'd take right now. I also don't think it's a bet the Broncos should take either.

[slim]

#1 - NO player is going to "take the team" and forego something like $9 M over a 3 year contract - and that's the difference between $13M a year and $16M a year. So, if Osweiler gets a better offer, and it now looks virtually certain that he will, then he's gone.



Incorrect. Players do it all the time.

Chris Harris could have gotten more from another team. Maybe Derek Wolfe too.

[Northman]

Incorrect. Players do it all the time.

Chris Harris could have gotten more from another team. Maybe Derek Wolfe too.

Yep. Wolfe has stated many times he loves it in Denver. I wont begrudge Oz getting more money if he can but i dont want it to be Denver to be the one to overpay him either.

[Lancane]

Denver's offer is more than fair.

Numbers wise I would agree North, but it's the lack of guaranteed money. Word is that the only guarantee is the base salary for the first season and the rest is incentive, it would also allow the team to move on after year one or to basically re-up as they did with Manning, and then his base for that year becomes guaranteed.

[NightTerror218]

Incorrect. Players do it all the time.

Chris Harris could have gotten more from another team. Maybe Derek Wolfe too.

Players state that but leave agents to do all the work and they go after the big money which pays them more every time. When we signed Peyton he did not want to be the highest paid QB but his agent went after that.

[Simple Jaded]

And Vader kicked his @$$!

He LET Vader kick his ass!

[Northman]

Numbers wise I would agree North, but it's the lack of guaranteed money. Word is that the only guarantee is the base salary for the first season and the rest is incentive, it would also allow the team to move on after year one or to basically re-up as they did with Manning, and then his base for that year becomes guaranteed.

Still more than fair in my opinion, he still has a lot to prove but if he can get more elsewhere with a low body of work than more power to him.

[Cugel]

Quote Originally Posted by Lancane View Post
Numbers wise I would agree North, but it's the lack of guaranteed money. Word is that the only guarantee is the base salary for the first season and the rest is incentive, it would also allow the team to move on after year one or to basically re-up as they did with Manning, and then his base for that year becomes guaranteed.

That guarantee is the part that Elway is going to have to come off of tomorrow, when other offers come in.

If Elway wants to keep Osweiler (and he clearly does) he's going to have to offer more than 1 year guaranteed, because the Texans and other teams are reportedly likely to offer multiple years (2 years? 3 years?) guaranteed.

I can understand Elway's conservatism on this, but he's got to take the risk because other teams are going to do so, and it won't really cost him any more $.

Unless they cut Osweiler after year 1 what difference does a 2 year guarantee make? And if they really want to part ways with Osweiler after year 1 they will have just as much trouble finding a starting QB as they are now.

Unless Brock is really truly horrible he's going to be a 2 year starter. And if, after year 1 they decide he's not the future, they can look for a QB in the draft and then prepare him for a year (2017), then dump Brock in 2018 and start the drafted QB.

So basically a 2 year guarantee is risk free - unless you want to insure that you can get rid of Brock after next season.

[Cugel]

Players state that but leave agents to do all the work and they go after the big money which pays them more every time. When we signed Peyton he did not want to be the highest paid QB but his agent went after that.

Huh? :confused: Peyton wasn't the highest paid QB, and he certainly could have been. The Titans offered him a lot more $, and even the right to buy into the franchise, and have a job with the Titans organization after football, etc.

In terms of $ it was a much better offer. Reportedly in 2012 Peyton told the Broncos and all other teams what salary he was looking for (around $20M) and that he wasn't looking to have a bidding war about it.

I don't remember that any of the teams he was considering balked at his contract demands, but perhaps there were some and it wasn't reported. Not likely though, because I think that money was about what he was earning with the Colts.

I don't think that # had any bearing on his decision at all, which was reportedly based on which organization he felt most comfortable in.

[Cugel]

Yep. Wolfe has stated many times he loves it in Denver. I wont begrudge Oz getting more money if he can but i dont want it to be Denver to be the one to overpay him either.

Well, the offer Elway has already made is definitely OVERPAYING Osweiler considering he has 7 career starts.

We're officially in Matt Cassel territory here. Guy comes in as a backup and does well in 16 games for a SB caliber team, gets a 2 year $30 M contract.

Cassel even had more experience and won 11 games for the Pats in 2008, and yet we all know how that story went in KC.

I don't think Osweiler is remotely worth $15M a year or even $13.

But, he's probably going to get at least a $30 M guarantee, just because there are no other QBs on the market worth squat (unless you think RGIII is salvageable - which I don't).

I bet RGIII gets something close to $15M a year from some desperate team, which would be certifiably insane. I just hope it isn't Denver because I have zero confidence in that guy after he ran Mike Shanahan out of town.

Then gets a $15M a year offer. Sheesh! Talk about failing upward! (You can tell me I'm crazy for thinking RGIII will get anything close to $15M, and I hope you're right. But does it make any sense to franchise Ryan Fitzpatrick and give him $19 M on a 1 year deal? But I read that the Jets are likely to do that.)

[Tned]

But does it make any sense to franchise Ryan Fitzpatrick and give him $19 M on a 1 year deal? But I read that the Jets are likely to do that.)

This is at least the second time you've posted this. So, do you really think the NFL is going to make an exception for the Jets and let them place a franchise tag on Fitzpatrick 5 days after the deadline, and after they already used it on someone else?

You lose a lot of credibility when you spout off all these "facts" and then don't even know something as basic as when the franchise tag deadline is.

[Cugel]

This is at least the second time you've posted this. So, do you really think the NFL is going to make an exception for the Jets and let them place a franchise tag on Fitzpatrick 5 days after the deadline, and after they already used it on someone else?

You lose a lot of credibility when you spout off all these "facts" and then don't even know something as basic as when the franchise tag deadline is.

YOu're right about the deadline. I forgot about that.


Fitzpatrick won't get $18 million a year or $22 million guaranteed. (http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/jets/post/_/id/58778/could-sam-bradford-contract-hurt-jets-negotiations-with-ryan-fitzpatrick) Yeah, he had a better year than Bradford, but Bradford is five years younger and would generate more interest on the open market than Fitzpatrick. I spoke to a prominent quarterback agent near the end of the season who estimated that Fitzpatrick would fetch something in the $10 million to $12 million-a-year range. Since then, I've heard $8 million to $10 million per year, including at least $10 million in guarantees.

I wonder if that is going to go up. If Osweiler re-signs with Denver, then Fitzpatrick looks to be a possible option for a team like Cleveland. I imagine he stays put, but he could get a big offer on a 1 or 2 year deal from some QB desperate team that has a ton of cap space - just not the Texans because they already got rid of him.

[Joel]

And Vader kicked his @$$!
That was Episode IV Obi-Wan: Episode III Obi-Wan kinda sliced Vader in HALF and left what remained of him engulfed in flames. As victories go, pretty decisive. :tongue:

Vader totally got even when Obi-Wan was old, decrepit and threw the fight though. ;)

[Cugel]

You're only a master of evil Joel! :beer:

[TXBRONC]

That guarantee is the part that Elway is going to have to come off of tomorrow, when other offers come in.

If Elway wants to keep Osweiler (and he clearly adoes) he's going to have to offer more than 1 year guaranteed, because the Texans and other teams are reportedly likely to offer multiple years (2 years? 3 years?) guaranteed.

I can understand Elway's conservatism on this, but he's got to take the risk because other teams are going to do so, and it won't really cost him any more $.

Unless they cut Osweiler after year 1 what difference does a 2 year guarantee make? And if they really want to part ways with Osweiler after year 1 they will have just as much trouble finding a starting QB as they are now.

Unless Brock is really truly horrible he's going to be a 2 year starter. And if, after year 1 they decide he's not the future, they can look for a QB in the draft and then prepare him for a year (2017), then dump Brock in 2018 and start the drafted QB.

So basically a 2 year guarantee is risk free - unless you want to insure that you can get rid of Brock after next season.

I'm not sure Elway will have to come off of the guarantee or better yet I don't think he will.