From 2016 Combine [Archive]

Denver Native (Carol)

02-24-2016, 02:45 PM

Andrew Mason ‏@MaseDenver 1h

Gary Kubiak: "We want Brock Osweiler to be a part of our football team." http://j.mp/21rfk7q

Andrew Mason ‏@MaseDenver 4h

Kubiak: In #SB50, Broncos "stayed true to what we did ... the effort that we played with was the difference."

Andrew Mason ‏@MaseDenver 4h

Kubiak praised the contributions that Latimer brought on special teams. Said he grew as a player in last 8 weeks of the season.

Andrew Mason ‏@MaseDenver 4h

Kubiak, on Cody Latimer: "I think he made a lot of progress last year ... Cody has got starter ability in this league."

Andrew Mason ‏@MaseDenver 4h

Kubiak: Sambrailo is expected to be ready when OTAs begin.

Andrew Mason ‏@MaseDenver 4h

Kubiak: in evaluating OLs, their "football knowledge" is key. Cited Max Garcia, getting to know him last year, high football I.Q.

Andrew Mason ‏@MaseDenver 4h

Kubiak: "It is more difficult" to evaluate draft OL now compared w/ 10 years ago because of proliferation of spread offenses.

Andrew Mason ‏@MaseDenver 4h

Kubiak, on the OL: "We're young & we like our future from that standpoint. At the same time I definitely feel like we have to improve."

Andrew Mason ‏@MaseDenver 4h

Kubiak: Osweiler "has a bright future ... obviously we think the world of him." Wants him to be a part of the team.

Andrew Mason ‏@MaseDenver 4h

Kubiak said he had a "brief" chat with Manning Tuesday, expects to talk with him again today.

Andrew Mason ‏@MaseDenver 4h

Kubiak: Manning decision "about him taking his time ... no hurry here ... nothing has changed."

Troy Renck ‏@TroyRenck 5m

#KSU's Whitehair hasn't met with #Broncos but is hoping to in next few days. Played guard and tackle in college

Troy Renck ‏@TroyRenck 8m

#Kansas State's guard Cody Whitehair said he could see himself fitting w #Broncos. Is versatile, has played tackle, enjoys zone blocking

Troy Renck ‏@TroyRenck 25m

#LSU's Vadal Alexander is experienced zone blocker at guard and tackle. Hasn't met w #Broncos yet

Troy Renck Retweeted
Nicki Jhabvala ‏@NickiJhabvala 49m

Joshua Garnett, a guard out of Stanford, has an interview with the Broncos on Thursday. http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/joshua-garnett?id=2555138

Troy Renck ‏@TroyRenck 2h

HC Coach Gary Kubiak said key to #Broncos RB position is keeping CJ Anderson healthy http://www.tout.com/m/yojydx

Troy Renck Retweeted
Denver Post Sports ‏@DPostSports 2h

John Elway, #Broncos likely searching for offensive line help http://dpo.st/1T5yTBt

Troy Renck ‏@TroyRenck 4h

#broncos Kubiak said Heuerman shouldn't have any limitations when team begins workouts April 18

Troy Renck ‏@TroyRenck 4h

#Broncos Kubiak said Ty Sambrailo expected healthy for offseason workouts. Will stay at tackle "He has a bright future."

Mike Klis ‏@MikeKlis 4h

John Fox on Elway saying HC switch to Kubiak was justified by AFC title/SB "I don't really pay attention to what is said" #9news #9sports

Denver Native (Carol)

02-24-2016, 03:59 PM

Troy Renck ‏@TroyRenck 37m

Troy Renck Retweeted Nicki Jhabvala

Projects as a change of pace back. If Hillman leaves via free agency, as expected, a back like Ervin could make sene

Troy Renck added,
Nicki Jhabvala @NickiJhabvala
Tyler Ervin, RB out of San Jose State, said he met with the Broncos. http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/tyler-ervin?id=2555234 …

Troy Renck ‏@TroyRenck 1h

#OhioState's Taylor Decker. Could be fit for #Broncos who are looking for Oline help

Andrew Mason ‏@MaseDenver 2h

Liberty QB Josh Woodrum says he hasn't met with the Broncos here, but met with them (and all other teams) at the NFLPA game last month.

Andrew Mason ‏@MaseDenver 2h

TCU OL Halapoulivaati Vaitai said that he met informally with the Broncos last night. Also met with the Cowboys, among other teams.

underrated29

02-24-2016, 04:13 PM

TCU OL Halapoulivaati Vaitai said that he met informally with the Broncos last night. Also met with the Cowboys, among other teams.

What a name!
This guy needs to be on our team. Just like Mr. Cobble.

Also- Garnett, they met with him. The guy in my sig. Fantastic!!! I think hed be great here

dogfish

02-24-2016, 04:37 PM

Kubiak, on the OL: "We're young & we like our future from that standpoint. At the same time I definitely feel like we have to improve."

combine that with our meetings with all those OLs, and it doesn't take a genius to figure out that they're planning to revamp the OL with a couple of draft picks. . . as it should be, and no surprise there. . . nice to see them acknowledge it, though. . . if they can re-sign brock, and at least one of malik or danny, we'll have an awful lot of flexibility in the draft. . .

this is also pretty telling;

HC Coach Gary Kubiak said key to #Broncos RB position is keeping CJ Anderson healthy

buh-bye, ronnie. . . think we'll be looking at a mid-round pick coming in to share the load w/ CJ. . . just pick a kid that's fast, please!

:defense:

underrated29

02-24-2016, 04:42 PM

combine that with our meetings with all those OLs, and it doesn't take a genius to figure out that they're planning to revamp the OL with a couple of draft picks. . . as it should be, and no surprise there. . . nice to see them acknowledge it, though. . . if they can re-sign brock, and at least one of malik or danny, we'll have an awful lot of flexibility in the draft. . .

this is also pretty telling;

buh-bye, ronnie. . . think we'll be looking at a mid-round pick coming in to share the load w/ CJ. . . just pick a kid that's fast, please!

:defense:

I still figure to see us take an early G, a mid round Center and a late round T/swing player. I expect at least 3 OL to be picked in this draft.

G_Money

02-24-2016, 04:48 PM

combine that with our meetings with all those OLs, and it doesn't take a genius to figure out that they're planning to revamp the OL with a couple of draft picks. . . as it should be, and no surprise there. . . nice to see them acknowledge it, though. . . if they can re-sign brock, and at least one of malik or danny, we'll have an awful lot of flexibility in the draft. . .

this is also pretty telling;

buh-bye, ronnie. . . think we'll be looking at a mid-round pick coming in to share the load w/ CJ. . . just pick a kid that's fast, please!

:defense:

We could do worse than Whitehair up front and Prosise in the backfield. Lots of nice upgrades should be available for us, even with our late draft positioning.

TXBRONC

02-24-2016, 05:07 PM

combine that with our meetings with all those OLs, and it doesn't take a genius to figure out that they're planning to revamp the OL with a couple of draft picks. . . as it should be, and no surprise there. . . nice to see them acknowledge it, though. . . if they can re-sign brock, and at least one of malik or danny, we'll have an awful lot of flexibility in the draft. . .

this is also pretty telling;

buh-bye, ronnie. . . think we'll be looking at a mid-round pick coming in to share the load w/ CJ. . . just pick a kid that's fast, please!

:defense:

I hope Max Garcia is going be apart of that revamping. He has nasty disposition and he played well when given the opportunity. At least it looked that way to me.

tomjonesrocks

02-24-2016, 05:24 PM

Mike Klis &rlm;@MikeKlis 4h John Fox on Elway saying HC switch to Kubiak was justified by AFC title/SB "I don't really pay attention to what is said" #9news #9sports

Eat shit, John - you traitor...

Denver Native (Carol)

02-24-2016, 05:42 PM

Kubiak: Future is bright even after Super Bowl win
Head Coach Gary Kubiak addresses the media at the first day of the 2016 NFL Combine

http://www.denverbroncos.com/multimedia/videos/Kubiak-Future-is-bright-even-after-Super-Bowl-win/c63e5a4c-80d3-438c-82b2-4859edeffbc8

Denver Native (Carol)

02-24-2016, 05:46 PM

In the days leading up to Super Bowl 50, there were questions for plenty of members of the Broncos organization about Gary Kubiak taking over as head coach for John Fox before the 2015 season.

General Manager John Elway had the most pointed comments on the decision, saying at different points that the team made the move to get past their first game of the playoffs — something Fox failed to do twice in four trips with Denver — and that there was something wrong “if you can’t get guys excited about playing in the playoffs that time of year.” Speaking to the media from the Combine in Indianapolis on Wednesday, Fox shrugged his shoulders about Elway’s comments.

“I don’t really pay much attention to what’s said, whether it’s even about our own team sometimes,” Fox said, via the Chicago Sun-Times. “But we’ve got our own set of issues. That’s kinda all behind right now.”

Fox said it was “unfortunate” that there had to be a loser in a Super Bowl matching two teams he coached in the past because he still has relationships with people in the Panthers and Broncos organizations. He said he congratulates “most of them” for their success while trying to get the Bears on track for a playoff run of their own.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/02/24/john-fox-didnt-pay-much-attention-to-john-elways-comments-at-super-bowl/

Al Wilson 4 Mayor

02-24-2016, 08:45 PM

Most of them. :laugh:

NightTerror218

02-24-2016, 10:51 PM

Anyone have a list of who the Broncos have met with?

Denver Native (Carol)

02-24-2016, 11:04 PM

Anyone have a list of who the Broncos have met with?

List of NFL prospects who met with Denver Broncos
http://247sports.com/Bolt/List-of-NFL-prospects-who-met-with-Denver-Broncos-43906838

Simple Jaded

02-24-2016, 11:26 PM

The Broncos need T's, at least two of them.

Whitehair is a G.

Joel

02-25-2016, 01:27 AM

I still figure to see us take an early G, a mid round Center and a late round T/swing player. I expect at least 3 OL to be picked in this draft.
While I think G generally underrated, that necessarily means I think most of the NFL disagrees, and we have more needs at OT than G, so: Wouldn't it make more sense to take one or more OTs early, and Gs later? Or is the idea that drafting a G while everyone else is still focused on OTs gives us a good shot at an elite G?

Seems like if we took an OT 1st and a G 3rd we'd have a decent shot of getting good ones even with each rounds final pick: We're very unlikely to find a decent OT with a triple digit pick. Rightly or wrongly, the premium on OTs is just too high for that to happen except by a huge stroke of luck.

I get that we expect Clady and Sambrailo back, but both remain fairly large unknowns at this point: One's developed a history of serious recurring injury, and the other's also coming off an injury after... 3 career starts? We need a solid Plan B for at LEAST one of them to keep Oz and CJ upright and productive all season. Again, I don't want to undervalue interior linemen, but it doesn't seem Kubiak and Dennison have; IMHO, all we need is rotational/competition guys there.

NightTerror218

02-25-2016, 11:10 AM

The Broncos need T's, at least two of them.

Whitehair is a G.

They have 3 T under contract and 2 G. I think all positions need depth. If Denver parts with Vasquez then a G is really needed.

Whitehair plays both G and T and is a zone blocking OL. He is probably ideal.

If Clady is cut the I would add T high to the list but I don't see that if he restructures contract. He is an above average starter still with zone blocking expereince. I doubt he goes anywhere.

VonDoom

02-25-2016, 04:10 PM

Elway's presser from today:

Nicki Jhabvala ‏@NickiJhabvala 7s8 seconds ago

Elway met with Peyton a couple nights ago. "He still needs more time, so we're going to afford him that time."

Lindsay Jones ‏@bylindsayhjones 25s26 seconds ago

Elway said he'll reconvene with Manning in a week or two. "The ball is in his court," Elway said.

Nicki Jhabvala ‏@NickiJhabvala 50s51 seconds ago

Elway: "We're really not in a hurry. Brock knows what we have to offer and we still have a great deal of interest in Brock."

Cecil Lammey ‏@CecilLammey 23s23 seconds ago

Elway "we're in discussions with Von. We feel good about it. We're hopeful that we can get something done."

Michael Tanier ‏@MikeTanier 50s51 seconds ago

Note to self : Never play poker with John Elway.

Cecil Lammey ‏@CecilLammey 43s44 seconds ago

Elway "Cody [Latimer] made great strides this year..We have high expectations for Cody, he'll continue to get better and better."

Nicki Jhabvala ‏@NickiJhabvala 4m4 minutes ago

Elway: "I think the sample size we got from Brock, we're excited about what we saw."

Nicki Jhabvala ‏@NickiJhabvala 3m3 minutes ago

Elway on Osweiler: "We wouldn't have been world champs without Brock, either. We needed both quarterbacks."

Nicki Jhabvala ‏@NickiJhabvala 3m3 minutes ago

Elway: "Peyton is the same Peyton he was. It's going to come down to what he wants to do."

Nicki Jhabvala ‏@NickiJhabvala 2m2 minutes ago

Elway said he plans to talk to Ryan Clady and DeMarcus Ware after the combine.

Cecil Lammey ‏@CecilLammey 2m2 minutes ago

Elway "[OL] is an area we've got to get better. That'll be a focal point in free agency and the draft."

Michael Tanier ‏@MikeTanier 1m1 minute ago

John Elway measured his hands 3 months ago at 10 1/8th inches. This whole day has been creepy and strange.

VonDoom

02-25-2016, 04:12 PM

Nicki Jhabvala ‏@NickiJhabvala 8s9 seconds ago

Elway on RBs: "C.J. had a good year. Ronnie Hillman will be a free agent, so we'll see what happens with Ronnie."

Nicki Jhabvala ‏@NickiJhabvala 17s17 seconds ago

Elway: "We'll look at (RBs) in free agency and the draft."

Andrew Mason ‏@MaseDenver 40s40 seconds ago

Elway: "We're going to give Peyton the time that Peyton deserves." Says they'll revisit things in "a week to 10 days."

VonDoom

02-25-2016, 04:45 PM

Nicki Jhabvala ‏@NickiJhabvala 2m2 minutes ago

Elway said he thinks they're "in the ballpark" with talks with Von. Tagging Malik not out of the question. Doesn't want to use it on Brock.

Lindsay Jones ‏@bylindsayhjones 2m2 minutes ago

John Elway said the franchise tag would not be a consideration for Brock Osweiler.

Troy Renck ‏@TroyRenck 51s51 seconds ago

Elway said wants Ware back. Ware and Clady share agent. Will talk to him Friday about their situations/contracts

Nicki Jhabvala ‏@NickiJhabvala 2m2 minutes ago

Elway said Danny Trevathan will hit the market. "We hope to keep him, but whether we can, we'll have to see. ... He had a great year."

Lindsay Jones ‏@bylindsayhjones 3m3 minutes ago

Elway said he's spent most of his time in draft prep focused on the offensive line.

Denver Broncos ‏@Broncos 3m3 minutes ago Lucas Oil Stadium

.@johnelway: "The nucleus we have in that locker room is really good."

Troy Renck ‏@TroyRenck 2m2 minutes ago

#Broncos Elway said Trevathan will test the market. Team focusing on Von, Malik and Brock. Would still like Trevathan back.

Nicki Jhabvala ‏@NickiJhabvala 1m1 minute ago

Elway: "Vernon (Davis), he'll probably be on the market, but that's not to say that we don't want him back."

VonDoom

02-25-2016, 04:51 PM

Denver Native (Carol)

02-25-2016, 04:57 PM

Speaking at the NFL Scouting Combine on Thursday, John Elway said he's not pushing Manning to make a decision on retirement.

"I met with Peyton a couple nights ago and we had a good talk," Elway said. "As I said after the game, we'll give him as much time as he needs. He still needs some more time so we're going to afford him that time. He deserves it after 18 years in this league."

Elway reiterated several times that he's not pressuring Manning one way or the other and will meet with the quarterback again in a seven to 10 days.

The Broncos' executive shot down suggestions that he needs Manning's decision sooner rather than later so he can move forward on contract negotiations with Brock Osweiler.

rest - plus Elway video
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000638683/article/elway-well-give-peyton-as-much-time-as-he-needs

Joel

02-25-2016, 05:57 PM

So to sum up, it sounds to me like a deal with Von will actually happen, probably without the tag. They won't tag Brock, and I'd still guess that once the Manning situation is resolved, a Brock deal is forthcoming. They sound like they still want Jackson and would consider tagging him. If he hits the market, he's pretty much gone, though. And Trevathan sounds like he's gone, based on that quote above.
Tagging Jackson's not a bad idea if they really REALLY want him and he really REALLY wants to be the NFLs best paid DE despite not even being OUR best performing DE: If I'm reading Spotrac right, the average 2016s top five DE base salaries is just over $10M, about what we're reportedly offering, but only 2/3 of his reported demand. Plus if we find ourselves crunched for cap room when we have a couple DOZEN FAs next year, there's no dead money for releasing Jackson then.

The bad news for Jackson is that being a roleplayer for the reigning champs is the main reason he can get a big payday, so unless we manage to repeat he'd have to play out of his mind next year to get the same kind of offers after a franchise tag. Such are the perils of the Rod Tidwell path: It doesn't necessarily end like a movie.

MOtorboat

02-25-2016, 06:56 PM

Tagging Jackson's not a bad idea if they really REALLY want him and he really REALLY wants to be the NFLs best paid DE despite not even being OUR best performing DE: If I'm reading Spotrac right, the average 2016s top five DE base salaries is just over $10M, about what we're reportedly offering, but only 2/3 of his reported demand. Plus if we find ourselves crunched for cap room when we have a couple DOZEN FAs next year, there's no dead money for releasing Jackson then.

The bad news for Jackson is that being a roleplayer for the reigning champs is the main reason he can get a big payday, so unless we manage to repeat he'd have to play out of his mind next year to get the same kind of offers after a franchise tag. Such are the perils of the Rod Tidwell path: It doesn't necessarily end like a movie.

The defensive end tag will be over $15 million. Unless, for some reason, you think it's going down 33 percent.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/24749485/nfl-franchise-tags-position-by-position-projected-numbers

Joel

02-25-2016, 07:11 PM

The defensive end tag will be over $15 million. Unless, for some reason, you think it's going down 33 percent.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/24749485/nfl-franchise-tags-position-by-position-projected-numbers
Fair enough; the cited figure was, again, the average of the top 5 salaries Spotrac lists. If the OFFICIAL tag's a percentage of cap, that math's entirely different.

VonDoom

02-25-2016, 08:02 PM

Fair enough; the cited figure was, again, the average of the top 5 salaries Spotrac lists. If the OFFICIAL tag's a percentage of cap, that math's entirely different.

I looked at OTC to see where you were coming from. I think part of it might be that a DE is a DE in the cap calculation (similar to linebacker - tagging Trevathan or Miller would cost the same, even though their positions are vastly different) and OTC breaks is down by 3-4 and 4-3 DE. If you add up the five highest of any DE contract by AAV, I come up with $14.32 million or something. But I believe that the $15.5 million is right based on various reports, so maybe I'm miscalculating something. Either way, assume that would be the number if we tag Jackson.

ShaneFalco

02-25-2016, 08:05 PM

it would be stupid to let Jackson and Danny walk.

Joel

02-25-2016, 08:41 PM

I looked at OTC to see where you were coming from. I think part of it might be that a DE is a DE in the cap calculation (similar to linebacker - tagging Trevathan or Miller would cost the same, even though their positions are vastly different) and OTC breaks is down by 3-4 and 4-3 DE. If you add up the five highest of any DE contract by AAV, I come up with $14.32 million or something. But I believe that the $15.5 million is right based on various reports, so maybe I'm miscalculating something. Either way, assume that would be the number if we tag Jackson.
This (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/cash/defensive-end/) is where I specifically looked:
2016 Defensive End Cash Rankings

PLAYER
2016 CASH

1
Mario Williams (http://www.spotrac.com/redirect/player/3849/)
$14,500,000

2
Derek Wolfe (http://www.spotrac.com/redirect/player/9846/)
$12,425,000

3
Charles Johnson (http://www.spotrac.com/redirect/player/1227/)
$11,000,000

Vinny Curry (http://www.spotrac.com/redirect/player/9869/)
$11,000,000

5
Jerry Hughes (http://www.spotrac.com/redirect/player/6540/)
$10,675,000

The CBS link shows the franchise cost calculated by position as a total of a given years cap though: That's purely a function of the current cap, not the pay of any particular player(s.) Evidently, there's a fundamental connection there I'm not seeing.

Joel

02-25-2016, 08:48 PM

it would be stupid to let Jackson and Danny walk.
Fine: Who would you prefer walk instead? Please bear in mind your answers must have a total contract value equal to or greater than what Jackson plus Trevathan can get on the open market, because Von, Oz and our 2016 rookies will eat most of our available cap space. We can't just give $10M/yr to everyone who wants it, nor even just everyone who can GET it elsewhere.

My impression is that most people presume the option of retaining Marshall, CJ, McManus et al. by merely matching the best offer from another team ensures we WILL keep all those we want, but that doesn't follow: The best offer to a SB Champ starter will be far more than the vet minimum. We're talking several million EACH for those guys, and there's a ton of them. Are you willing to let five of THEM walk just to keep Jackson? Or ALL of them just to keep TWO roleplayers?

That's not how champions remain champions. We won with all 53 and ONLY with all 53; we won't win again by showing a dozen the door just to keep a couple.

Buff

02-25-2016, 08:50 PM

VonDoom

02-25-2016, 08:53 PM

This (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/cash/defensive-end/) is where I specifically looked:
2016 Defensive End Cash Rankings

PLAYER
2016 CASH

1
Mario Williams (http://www.spotrac.com/redirect/player/3849/)
$14,500,000

2
Derek Wolfe (http://www.spotrac.com/redirect/player/9846/)
$12,425,000

3
Charles Johnson (http://www.spotrac.com/redirect/player/1227/)
$11,000,000

Vinny Curry (http://www.spotrac.com/redirect/player/9869/)
$11,000,000

5
Jerry Hughes (http://www.spotrac.com/redirect/player/6540/)
$10,675,000

The CBS link shows the franchise cost calculated by position as a total of a given years cap though: That's purely a function of the current cap, not the pay of any particular player(s.) Evidently, there's a fundamental connection there I'm not seeing.

I thought it was the average of the top five AAV, but I could be wrong. I assume CBS and others have it right

MOtorboat

02-26-2016, 01:01 AM

I thought it was the average of the top five AAV, but I could be wrong. I assume CBS and others have it right

Let's just put it this way: La Canfora isn't wrong.

Joel

02-26-2016, 01:06 AM

I thought it was the average of the top five AAV, but I could be wrong.
That doesn't make sense to me: Why would FUTURE years determine THIS years tag? When we know top players get back-loaded contracts so that 1) future years nearly always have higher salaries higher caps will make more manageable and 2) often never see that money anyway BECAUSE it's so high. Money given to take advantage of larger 2017-2020 caps should affect the 2016 franchise tag? Even though a lot of those guys will never get all that money anyway?

I assume CBS and others have it right
I honestly don't know anymore, because, again, that's a wholly different calculation. If we're saying (as I thought the CBA does) the tag's the average of the positions top five current salaries (however determined) that's one thing, but if one positions tag is x% of the NFLs 2016 cap, another's y% etc. that's a whole other animal. In that case, lists like the one above are irrelevant: The DE tag will be x% of whatever this years NFL cap is, whoever "sets the market" wherever.

NightTerror218

02-26-2016, 11:00 AM

Alabama's RB Henry is considered a good RB for Broncos. He is considered a straight line one cut runner. Lacks lateral quickness.

Just throwing this out there.

tomjonesrocks

02-26-2016, 11:09 AM

MOtorboat

02-26-2016, 12:23 PM

Wouldn't Denver have to cut Peyton and re-sign him to bring him back? Even that would be an embarrassment to Peyton I would think.

No. Roster bonus kicks in March 9, first day of league year.

Ravage!!!

02-26-2016, 12:46 PM

I think Peyton wants to come back - or at least wanted to know if we'd have him back and at what salary - why else would he and Elway have met a couple nights ago and then agree to extend it another 7-10 days? This is the same pattern as last year when they met, took some additional time, and them came to that restructured contract. I really think Peyton was probably asking about numbers..

It adds a little intrigue. That said, it's hard to believe Elway would really want him back at the expense of signing Brock. Elways also said Brock needs to play and that we can't afford to lose both guys.

I think Peyton is probably going to come to his senses and retire, but needed Elway to put it in actual numbers to be the final nudge out the door.

I don't think so. Why wouldn't Elway stop in, or call, his Super Bowl winning Qb and see how things are going? Peyton has a lot going on. Not only has he just won his second Super Bowl, but has these BS allegations being circled about, and every media outlet trying to get an answer as to his retirement plans. Is it really hard to imagine John calling in to see how things are going? There are many reasons as to why Elway and Manning would talk other than salary considerations.

Either way, I think Manning retires. If not, Elway moves forward with Brock. Giving Manning time is only giving him the respect he deserves to leave on his own terms so that the Broncos aren't cutting him, just to save a couple weeks with no gain, despite what Cugel thinks.

Like you said, we can't lose both, and doesn't make sense at all for the Broncos to move forward with Manning at this point. I think the decision is pretty much on the plate for us as far as what's going to happen, we just have to let it happen.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor

02-26-2016, 01:06 PM

Alabama's RB Henry is considered a good RB for Broncos. He is considered a straight line one cut runner. Lacks lateral quickness.

Just throwing this out there.

Boy, I don't see him that way at all. He doesn't exactly hit the hole fast. I think he'd be a better fit in a power scheme.

Denver Native (Carol)

02-26-2016, 05:03 PM

Joel

02-26-2016, 07:44 PM

I don't think so. Why wouldn't Elway stop in, or call, his Super Bowl winning Qb and see how things are going? Peyton has a lot going on. Not only has he just won his second Super Bowl, but has these BS allegations being circled about, and every media outlet trying to get an answer as to his retirement plans. Is it really hard to imagine John calling in to see how things are going? There are many reasons as to why Elway and Manning would talk other than salary considerations.

Either way, I think Manning retires. If not, Elway moves forward with Brock. Giving Manning time is only giving him the respect he deserves to leave on his own terms so that the Broncos aren't cutting him, just to save a couple weeks with no gain, despite what Cugel thinks.

Like you said, we can't lose both, and doesn't make sense at all for the Broncos to move forward with Manning at this point. I think the decision is pretty much on the plate for us as far as what's going to happen, we just have to let it happen.
I seldom but sometimes disagree with Cugel or agree with Rav, so it probably means something this is one an extremely rare occasion that I'm doing BOTH.

Denvers Manning Era is over. I hope the NFLs is, because I don't want to see him embarrass (much less cripple or kill) himself, especially when he could've gone out on top, on his own terms, with a very powerful closing argument that he's the GoaT.

REGARDLESS, we're no longer in a position where planning merely a SINGLE year ahead is tenable or even justifiable: We're done playing Beat the Clock to win a SB before Manning runs out of gas, because we've finally (barely) done it. We don't have Oz under contract anymore, and he's finally seen the field for meaningful snaps, where he played well enough he won't and shouldn't be content to remain just a backup.

Basically, we need to find our franchise QB for the next DECADE, not just next year, so even if Manning posts another record-shattering season (EXTREMELY unlikely as that is) he's no longer the right QB for us. I'm deeply grateful for his commitment, service and accomplishments, but it's time to move on.

We can't lose both, but only one makes sense anyway.

Cugel

02-26-2016, 07:57 PM

Joel

02-26-2016, 08:04 PM

Manning is gone automatically unless the Broncos lose Brock Osweiler in FA. Of course they can't pay Brock $11-12M and then pay Manning anything at all. They desperately need his $19M to re-sign their FAs. If they are entering into negotiations with Malik Jackson, they are already allocating Manning's money elsewhere.

If Brock jumps to another team, they could try and get Manning to come back, but I still doubt it happens.
That's an intriguing view of it, because we could use that time to continue seeking and find our franchise guy. The problem is that unless Manning's willing to "restructure" out till he's 42 so we cut his 2016 salary in HALF, it's probably not a viable option.

Simple Jaded

02-26-2016, 08:55 PM

They have 3 T under contract and 2 G. I think all positions need depth. If Denver parts with Vasquez then a G is really needed.

Whitehair plays both G and T and is a zone blocking OL. He is probably ideal.

If Clady is cut the I would add T high to the list but I don't see that if he restructures contract. He is an above average starter still with zone blocking expereince. I doubt he goes anywhere.
They have Clady, if they wanna improve their G depth chart they should start by drafting legit T's and move Samprolo and Schofield inside.

This line is horrible, flat out horrible, draft Spriggs, the "great athlete" Samprolo is allege to be, keep Clady and Harris as a swing T and Schofield as swing G or starter if Vasquez is gone.

That way you're 4 deep at LT.

Start Garcia at C and draft a C, then forget Paradis ever happened.

If Whitehair "fits the system" I want nothing to do with him.

Cugel

02-27-2016, 12:30 PM

That's an intriguing view of it, because we could use that time to continue seeking and find our franchise guy. The problem is that unless Manning's will to "restructure" out till he's 42 so we cut his 2016 salary in HALF, it's probably not a viable option.

Well, if Osweiler does jump ship, then Manning becomes the most intriguing option. They would probably offer him something like $9 or $10M for a 1 year deal, with perhaps the same kind of performance bonuses that earned him $4M this past season (AFC Championship and Super-Bowl starts).

Then they would need to draft a QB in the 2nd or 3rd round to groom behind Manning for a year. In this scenario they wouldn't have any interest in RG III or Kaepernick.

However, things would need to change on the offense for the team to have any chance to succeed with Manning at QB at age 40.

Specifically the OL would have to be a GOOD pass-blocking OL. There's simply no way Manning could last a season behind an OL remotely as bad as the 2015 one. Not only did Manning get walloped repeatedly in every game, he suffered a torn foot tendon, but Osweiler in only 7 games had multiple injuries, separated shoulder, elbow, ribs, knee.

Then Manning came back and barely lasted 3 games over a span of 5 weeks.

Nor could they rely upon Clady to stay healthy. He's missed 2 of the last 3 seasons. He's had a torn foot tendon, and now ACL. There's no guarantee he'll remain healthy.

So, they need another veteran T to fill in in case Clady goes down again. Sambrailo could move over to LT, but they would still need a starting caliber veteran RT in that case.

It would be nice to find a guy in the draft, but as we saw this year, you can't start rookie OL on a SB team and expect them to be able to perform.

Max Garcia will presumably start after they cut Evan Mathis (or he retires) and they could look to replace Louis Vasquez at RT too. He's due $6.5M and the way he played he's not remotely worth it. But, if they let him go, they need to find another G in FA.

Some have suggested they could move Ryan Harris inside to G, the way they did Orlando Franklin. I'd say they need to stop "experimenting" and get an established G and leave Harris at RT where he belongs. Let him compete with Sambrailo to start.

So, to keep Manning healthy they would first need to straighten out the OL hot mess. If I were Manning, I wouldn't play behind an OL like that ever again. Not for $20M.

Cugel

02-27-2016, 12:42 PM

They have Clady, if they wanna improve their G depth chart they should start by drafting legit T's and move Samprolo and Schofield inside.

This line is horrible, flat out horrible, draft Spriggs, the "great athlete" Samprolo is allege to be, keep Clady and Harris as a swing T and Schofield as swing G or starter if Vasquez is gone.

That way you're 4 deep at LT.

Start Garcia at C and draft a C, then forget Paradis ever happened.

If Whitehair "fits the system" I want nothing to do with him.

The Broncos are happy with Paradis, who started every game in his first year off the practice squad. True, he gets bull-rushed onto his butt way to much for my liking, but you can almost guarantee that he's your 2016 starter. Perhaps they find another C to back up this year.

The last thing the Broncos need is Michael Schofield starting for them at a new position, when he sucked bad at the old one. They tried that before with guys who failed at T, moving them to G, where they continued to suck. Forget that crap. Get a real veteran starting caliber G if they are cutting Louis Vasquez. They can surely find one cheaper than $6.5M a year, so there's a probable cap savings of perhaps $1 M or two.

Even if they draft an OL, the lesson from 2015 is "don't start rookies or first year players who were on practice squad." It's OK to draft a guy and then let him work his way up the depth chart until he's ready to start.

It's NOT OK to just throw some guy in there and say "well, it's sink or swim." The Broncos OL sank most of the time.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor

02-27-2016, 01:51 PM

Mike Klis ‏@MikeKlis 2h

Denver Broncos talk with DeMarcus Ware, Ryan Clady about reducing 2016 salary http://www.9news.com/sports/nfl/denver-broncos/mike-klis/broncos-talk-demarcus-ware-ryan-clady-possibly-reducing-salary/57411644 …

Clady I understand, but asking Ware to take a pay cut concerns me. I think he still has a lot in the tank. Our pass rush was noticeably different when he went out. I'll go so far as to say he was the defensive MVP of the nfl in the first month of the season.

NightTerror218

02-27-2016, 01:52 PM

http://den.247sports.com/Bolt/List-of-NFL-prospects-who-met-with-Denver-Broncos-43906838

dogfish

02-27-2016, 02:27 PM

Clady I understand, but asking Ware to take a pay cut concerns me. I think he still has a lot in the tank. Our pass rush was noticeably different when he went out. I'll go so far as to say he was the defensive MVP of the nfl in the first month of the season.

you're not wrong, but he's also shown that his back problems aren't going away, and that he can't hold up for 50+ snaps a game over an entire season. . . he has to be a part-time player now to be effective, and eleven million is too much to pay a part time guy, no matter how good he is, or how valuable his leadership is. . . after we asked peyton F. manning for a paycut, ware understands that no one is immune. . . i think he'll give us a little back-- he's a team guy who's already earned a ton-- does he really want to move again so he can play his last years in cleveland or jacksonville, and be expected to be a savior, rather than a role-player with a couple young studs who can rotate in and keep him fresh? not worth it for a couple more million, when he can come back here and compete to add another championship to his legacy instead. . .

:defense:

Ravage!!!

02-27-2016, 02:48 PM

he'lll restructure his deal that spreads out the cap hit, but don't expect anyone to give away money. Tom Brady's deal just guaranteed him 20 million more, but extended it out to give more room. They aren't santa clause (to quote Aikman).

Al Wilson 4 Mayor

02-27-2016, 03:04 PM

Joel

02-27-2016, 10:56 PM

They have Clady, if they wanna improve their G depth chart they should start by drafting legit T's and move Samprolo and Schofield inside.

This line is horrible, flat out horrible, draft Spriggs, the "great athlete" Samprolo is allege to be, keep Clady and Harris as a swing T and Schofield as swing G or starter if Vasquez is gone.

That way you're 4 deep at LT.

Start Garcia at C and draft a C, then forget Paradis ever happened.

If Whitehair "fits the system" I want nothing to do with him.
Clady "fit the system," too, else we wouldn't have drafted him. Zimmerman, Schlereth, Nalen and Lepsis "fit the system." Just because a guy's got the agility, speed, balance and reflexes the system demands doesn't men he sucks (if anything all those things argue the opposite; they're not exactly useless for traditional linemen.) The problems start if/when we let "fitting the system" override lack of talent, but letting talent override lack of skill and smarts is also bad.

There's nothing wrong (and a lot right) with linemen possessing a lot of inborn talent (including strength) AND fitting the system. Ironically, one of the few downsides of winning a SB with an offense as bad as ours is encouraging overconfidence. I'd hoped their Texans campaigns had finally taught Kubiak the bitter lesson that he may be able to turn hamburger into prime rib for a season or two at QB but not filet mignon forever, and done the same for Dennison with linemen.

We'll see, but the way Elway's talked up going after linemen in this draft suggests the days of Kubiak using every trick in the book to make mediocre QBs briefly look like All Pros, while Dennison does the same with the line, are behind us. Look at Wade: Does HE worry about whether this or that supremely talented starter "fits the system"? No, he lets everyone do what they're best at and builds his system to fit THAT; witness the results.

Simple Jaded

02-28-2016, 04:22 PM

Clady, Schlereth and Zimmerman fit any system. And you don't need Lepsis to run a ZBS.

Joel

02-29-2016, 05:42 AM

Clady, Schlereth and Zimmerman fit any system.
That's the point.

And you don't need Lepsis to run a ZBS.
No, but it made him darned useful. I'm told teams can't sign 53 All Pros; that necessarily forces champions to get lots of production from lots of far lesser players.

Denver Native (Carol)

02-29-2016, 10:47 AM

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 4h

Big ramifications: NFL’s competition committee considering a rule that would eliminate the chop block for 2016 season, per league sources.

Joel

02-29-2016, 11:25 AM

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 4h

Big ramifications: NFL’s competition committee considering a rule that would eliminate the chop block for 2016 season, per league sources.
If it's actual CHOPS, then meh: They're already pretty much illegal except for interior linemen directly on the line (where they're hard to prevent anyway.) Now if they're talking about banning CUTS, that's a literal game changer. I don't know how RBs could chip pass rushers to keep QBs upright if they couldn't cut.

VonDoom

02-29-2016, 11:43 AM

If it's actual CHOPS, then meh: They're already pretty much illegal except for interior linemen directly on the line (where they're hard to prevent anyway.) Now if they're talking about banning CUTS, that's a literal game changer. I don't know how RBs could chip pass rushers to keep QBs upright if they couldn't cut.

Yeah, I don't see how cut blocks could be eliminated. The balance of power has already tipped towards defenses; this would be another step to that side.

Not to mention, according to the numbers from this combine, WR's are running slower on average than in recent years and CB's are running faster. Defense wins again.

MOtorboat

02-29-2016, 12:30 PM

Yeah, I don't see how cut blocks could be eliminated. The balance of power has already tipped towards defenses; this would be another step to that side.

Not to mention, according to the numbers from this combine, WR's are running slower on average than in recent years and CB's are running faster. Defense wins again.

Um. This would be the first rule that defenses "won" in probably 10 years.

Joel

02-29-2016, 01:23 PM

Yeah, I don't see how cut blocks could be eliminated. The balance of power has already tipped towards defenses; this would be another step to that side.
Yeah, not sure I can agree with that last part. There's an ebb and flow to offensive/defensive advantages in footballs rules, but it favored offense from the start and the long term trend has consistently continued in that direction. Teams used to commonly win games 6-0 by missing PATs; now 24-10 is a low scoring game.

Not to mention, according to the numbers from this combine, WR's are running slower on average than in recent years and CB's are running faster. Defense wins again.
Either that, or CBs are at more of a premium, so track stars who want money gravitate to the spot once "earned" by being really fast with bad hands. ;)

Um. This would be the first rule that defenses "won" in probably 10 years.
Well, they HAVE been steadily "winning" the cut block rules for a while. That, and people muddying the water between a cut and a chop (usually while glaring at our patented ZBS) is what brought it to mind when Carol posted the tweet about the Competition Committee possibly eliminating the last vestige of chops.

We don't want 8-figure QBs who sell tickets losing whole seasons to injury, but don't want 8-figure pass rushers who sell tickets crushing them losing seasons either. At least when a blitzer takes out a QB he's a REAL football player, not one of those lunchpail-toting peasant Gs getting above themselves and forgetting their place. :tsk:

Buff

02-29-2016, 01:41 PM

Not sure if posted elsewhere, Silver wrote about Elway and Fox bumping into each other in Indy. Marginally interesting.

There was one particularly intriguing close encounter of the awkward kind that I happened to witness in the hallway circling the suite level of Lucas Oil Stadium on Friday afternoon: While Bears coach John Fox ebulliently shared details of a recent trip to the Dry Tortugas, a fishing ground 70 miles west of Key West frequented mostly by serious anglers, Broncos general manager John Elway -- the man who'd fired Fox 13 months earlier, and whose franchise is still basking in the afterglow of Denver's Super Bowl 50 victory over Carolina -- emerged from his adjacent suite wearing aviator shades, a leather jacket and a breezy smile.
NFL Scouting Combine

The two men shook hands, for the first time in a long time. Fox offered his congratulations, and Elway thanked his former head coach. They nodded at one another respectfully and, a few seconds later, retreated to separate conversations with others in the hallway, a hardly surprising development given that the deterioration of their relationship had been a major factor that precipitated Elway's decision to cut Fox loose.

While Elway has not been shy about expressing his belief that Fox's replacement, Gary Kubiak, did a better job of preparing the Broncos for the playoffs than his predecessor had in previous years, Fox has resisted the temptation to fire back. This is not to suggest that he's perfectly at peace with the way things went down after the 2014 season.

In an earlier conversation, he conceded that as someone who had coached the Broncos and Panthers to Super Bowls a decade apart, seeing those franchises battle for a championship in the 50th rendition of the Ultimate Game was a surreal experience. Fox watched the game at home in Lake Forest, Illinois, hosting a small gathering that included several current Bears employees who followed him from Denver last winter.

"It was kind of strange," Fox admitted. "There are so many guys on the Broncos I was really happy for, and of course I wanted to see Peyton [Manning] win it in a big way. But there are also some guys who are still with the Panthers from my time there, like [center] Ryan Kalil, and some of the people who work for the organization ... It was just really hard not to want them to do well, too.

"I wasn't really rooting for anyone. I was just interested, and experiencing a lot of different emotions."

Two years ago, Fox came to the combine experiencing a sensation foreign to many other industries: The indignity of finishing second.

Imagine coming to a sales convention at which you and the team you managed were universally regarded as having been, at least for the past year, better than all but one other company in the entire world. Would you expect to be the recipient of solemn and heartfelt condolences from your peers on a steady basis, and to understand and agree with the sentiment behind them?

That's pretty much what Ron Rivera, who succeeded Fox as the Panthers' coach in 2011, has been dealing with in the weeks since his team's Super Bowl 50 defeat, and there's one particular conviction that has fueled his frustration.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000640020/article/no-sleep-in-naptown-my-week-at-the-nfl-scouting-combine

Joel

02-29-2016, 03:51 PM

While Elway has not been shy about expressing his belief that Fox's replacement, Gary Kubiak, did a better job of preparing the Broncos for the playoffs than his predecessor had in previous years, Fox has resisted the temptation to fire back.Then he's smarter than I credited (as opposed to people proud of being DUMBER than I credited.) The team Fox told to treat the SB like a home game, enjoy the experience and head out into NYC to party instead of PREPARE wouldn't—COULDN'T—have kicked and screamed its way back from 14 pt deficits against THREE playoff teams, let alone beaten 3 of the top 5 scoring offenses to claim a SB with all 53 guys playing all 60 minutes (and MORE against the AFCs other 2 top 3 teams.)

In an earlier conversation, he conceded that as someone who had coached the Broncos and Panthers to Super Bowls a decade apart, seeing those franchises battle for a championship in the 50th rendition of the Ultimate Game was a surreal experience.Maybe a reminder of just how LITTLE he contributed? His Denver teams were Mannings offense and Del Rios D; Fox just grinned like an idiot, preached on "correctable mistakes" EVERY SINGLE WEEK but NEVER CORRECTED THEM and told us what an elite player Chris Clark is. So Elway corrected out biggest mistake.

Fox watched the game at home
Yeah, and every time I think about that it makes me smile. :)