MMQB Snippet on Denver's Defense

[BroncoWave]

Thought this was pretty interesting.

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/02/21/roger-goodell-new-england-patriots-nfl-draft-picks-combine-preview#broncos


Two notes about perspective and the Denver Broncos.
First: What a good month the Denver defense had to cap the season. I went back and looked to see what some of the best defenses of the past 30 years did in the postseason, and the quarterbacks these defenses played against in the playoffs. It’s fine to say a certain defense is the best of this era, or of that era. But I also think you need to factor in the quarterbacks each defense played against. So here is how the 2015 Broncos defense compared, in points allowed and touchdown passes allowed in the postseason, to five very strong defenses of the past 30 years:

Defense (Playoff QBs faced) Games Opp. points TD passes
1985 Chicago (Phil Simms, Dieter Brock, Steve Grogan) 3 10 1
1990 Giants (Mike Tomczak, Joe Montana, Jim Kelly) 3 35 1
2000 Baltimore (Gus Frerotte, Steve McNair, Rich Gannon, Kerry Collins) 4 23 0
2002 Tampa Bay (Jeff Garcia, Donovan McNabb, Rich Gannon) 3 37 2
2013 Seattle (Drew Brees, Colin Kaepernick, Peyton Manning) 3 40 3
2015 Denver (Ben Roethlisberger, Tom Brady, Cam Newton) 3 44 1

Hard to argue against those who say the ’85 Bears and 2000 Ravens are the best defenses of recent vintage. The Bears allowed 3.3 points per game, Baltimore 5.8. But no team had to face the reigning MVP quarterback and two others with a combined six Super Bowl victories, so you could say, quite justifiably, that no team of those six had a tougher road to a title. Three premier quarterbacks faced, one touchdown pass allowed in 12 quarters—the desperation throw on fourth down by Tom Brady to Rob Gronkowski in the AFC title game. All told, an interesting comparison.

Second: The Denver offense had an awful postseason. How awful? The Broncos averaged 3.97 yards per offensive play in the three-game playoff run to the championship. The worst team in the regular season in yards per play, Indianapolis, averaged 4.89. So, on average, the Broncos were a yard worse than the lowest-functioning offensive team in the regular season. What may be even more startling is that in none of the three playoff games did Denver average in a game what the worst offensive team averaged per play over the 2015 season. Compared to Indy’s 4.89 yards per play, the Broncos were 4.56 yards per play against Pittsburgh, 3.75 against New England and 3.46 against Carolina.

Taken together, those two stats do not prove the 2015 Broncos had the best defense of any Super Bowl team of the past three decades. But they should convince you that they had a pretty great run.

[Simple Jaded]

Throw moar.

[TXBRONC]

I've went and watched all three games on a couple of occasions what the defense had to do to keep Denver winning was amazing.

[EastCoastBronco]

I've went and watched all three games on a couple of occasions what the defense had to do to keep Denver winning was amazing.

I watched the AFC Championship game again last night and couldn't help thinking...
If NE had settled for field goals instead of 4th down attempts in that 4th quarter we were done.
Our offence did ****-all.
It's all water under the bridge of course, but it just proves how luck and "magic" play into a SB run.

[Davii]

I watched the AFC Championship game again last night and couldn't help thinking...
If NE had settled for field goals instead of 4th down attempts in that 4th quarter we were done.
Our offence did ****-all.
It's all water under the bridge of course, but it just proves how luck and "magic" play into a SB run.

I don't think it's that easy either though. I think Kubiak may have let the offense open it up a little had we needed points. I don't think there was any accident that we get a lead and the offense acts like a turtle so as not to put the defense in a bad position.

Who knows, all I know is we're the champs.

[artie_dale]

I don't think it's that easy either though. I think Kubiak may have let the offense open it up a little had we needed points. I don't think there was any accident that we get a lead and the offense acts like a turtle so as not to put the defense in a bad position.

Who knows, all I know is we're the champs.


Well, there's that... but the fact is, our offense, whether it was intentionally conservative or not, did have too many 3 & outs which put a lot of pressure on our defense anyway. Your statement gives credit to Kubes, my pessimism doesn't, but gives lots more credit to the D for have the energy to make up or the offense.

[Northman]

I don't think it's that easy either though. I think Kubiak may have let the offense open it up a little had we needed points. I don't think there was any accident that we get a lead and the offense acts like a turtle so as not to put the defense in a bad position.

Who knows, all I know is we're the champs.

Yea, to be fair Manning did throw a pair of TD passes to Daniels earlier in the game.

[EastCoastBronco]

My point was that we were damn lucky that NE chose to go for it instead of kick field goals in that 4th quarter.
Our offence, whether though inability or choice, or a little of both, did nothing in that 4th quarter but give the best QB in football more than enough chances to win the game if Uncle Bill had chosen to ride the foot of Gostowski.
We were also damn lucky our crazy ass good, yet exhausted, defence, had just enough left in the tank to foil that 2 point conversion attempt.
I'm not debating whether I'm happy we won the SB.
I was just making observations on how the hand of fate played into that 4th quarter.

FYTB...

[Davii]

My point was that we were damn lucky that NE chose to go for it instead of kick field goals in that 4th quarter.
Our offence, whether though inability or choice, or a little of both, did nothing in that 4th quarter but give the best QB in football more than enough chances to win the game if Uncle Bill had chosen to ride the foot of Gostowski.
We were also damn lucky our crazy ass good, yet exhausted, defence, had just enough left in the tank to foil that 2 point conversion attempt.
I'm not debating whether I'm happy we won the SB.
I was just making observations on how the hand of fate played into that 4th quarter.

FYTB...

I agree with your point, all I'm saying is I'm not certain that if they HAD kicked field goals we wouldn't have seen something different on offense. I'm not convinced that our offense wasn't being purposely ultra conservative because they could be. Either way, our defense is, and was, retardedly phenomenal. I mean, ridiculously good. No matter WHY the offense was inept it doesn't take anything away from the amazing defensive performance throughout the entire playoffs.

What's "FYTB"?

[Ravage!!!]

Yeah... same thing in the Super Bowl. We pretty much just had Manning hand off the ball over and over, purely so that we could run out the clock in the last couple of possessions. What 'would' we have done had we needed to get closer or score? We don't know, of course. In the NE game, had NE kicked the FG, I think we most probably would have HAD to be more aggressive on offense. Instead, we didn't have to be, and thus, chose the ultra conservative route (ironically this is what got other coaches so much shit).

[artie_dale]

I agree with your point, all I'm saying is I'm not certain that if they HAD kicked field goals we wouldn't have seen something different on offense. I'm not convinced that our offense wasn't being purposely ultra conservative because they could be. Either way, our defense is, and was, retardedly phenomenal. I mean, ridiculously good. No matter WHY the offense was inept it doesn't take anything away from the amazing defensive performance throughout the entire playoffs.

What's "FYTB"?

A phrase coined by the "That's Good Broncos" guy, ???-Perna. It means "Fa-Q Tom Brady".

[NightTrainLayne]

I've tried to think of a way to really quantify this.

The week after the SuperBowl, Pat Kirwin on Sirius/XM NFL channel tried to make a list of the best Super Bowl winning defenses. He based it off of traditional Defensive statistics. Points allowed, TDs allowed, number of sacks, number of turnovers etc.

He started off with us at around #6 all-time, but opened it up for listeners to call in if their team had better numbers. We ended up falling to around #10 when they quit talking about it.

But none of those other teams, had as much pressure on their defense as the Broncos. The 2000 Ravens imo are the only team that's close. Everyone else had a competent offense, and some had some really great offenses.

It's one thing to have a defense that plays great when your team is putting points on the board every trip, and you can begin to make the other team one-dimensional based on the need to score, but it's totally different to have a defense do what ours did (and maybe a few others). To play that dominating a game, when so many of those games were one-score or less difference. When the other team had their whole play-book, and entire game-plan at their disposal.

I can't think of a way to really quantify that in a statistical sense. I doubt we ever really see that again, and as some others, it will be something that those of us who follow the team closely will understand, but will be forgotten by most in the years to come.

[artie_dale]

Good thing for me is, I really do not care where our defense ranks compared to others. All I know is it is the most bad-ass defense right now and it is capable of winning games on it's own.

[Northman]

I've tried to think of a way to really quantify this.

The week after the SuperBowl, Pat Kirwin on Sirius/XM NFL channel tried to make a list of the best Super Bowl winning defenses. He based it off of traditional Defensive statistics. Points allowed, TDs allowed, number of sacks, number of turnovers etc.

He started off with us at around #6 all-time, but opened it up for listeners to call in if their team had better numbers. We ended up falling to around #10 when they quit talking about it.

But none of those other teams, had as much pressure on their defense as the Broncos. The 2000 Ravens imo are the only team that's close. Everyone else had a competent offense, and some had some really great offenses.

It's one thing to have a defense that plays great when your team is putting points on the board every trip, and you can begin to make the other team one-dimensional based on the need to score, but it's totally different to have a defense do what ours did (and maybe a few others). To play that dominating a game, when so many of those games were one-score or less difference. When the other team had their whole play-book, and entire game-plan at their disposal.

I can't think of a way to really quantify that in a statistical sense. I doubt we ever really see that again, and as some others, it will be something that those of us who follow the team closely will understand, but will be forgotten by most in the years to come.

Yea, and ill even add that the 2000 Ravens still had a rusher go over 1300 yds that year so compared to our inconsistent rushing its even more phenomenal that our defense was able to do as well as they did.

[artie_dale]

Yea, and ill even add that the 2000 Ravens still had a rusher go over 1300 yds that year so compared to our inconsistent rushing its even more phenomenal that our defense was able to do as well as they did.

Yes! Jamal Lewis was a beast and Trent Dilfer minimized mistakes. They also had Ole Reliable Shannon Sharpe and I think Brandon Stokely, too.

[Ravage!!!]

I'll still point out that we only allowed ONE TD pass when playing against 2 HoF'ers and the NFL MVP. That's phenomenal.

[TXBRONC]

I watched the AFC Championship game again last night and couldn't help thinking...
If NE had settled for field goals instead of 4th down attempts in that 4th quarter we were done.
Our offence did ****-all.
It's all water under the bridge of course, but it just proves how luck and "magic" play into a SB run.

A field goal would have still left them trailing. I would bet he was concerned his offense might not be able to get second opportunity to score.

[TXBRONC]

I agree with your point, all I'm saying is I'm not certain that if they HAD kicked field goals we wouldn't have seen something different on offense. I'm not convinced that our offense wasn't being purposely ultra conservative because they could be. Either way, our defense is, and was, retardedly phenomenal. I mean, ridiculously good. No matter WHY the offense was inept it doesn't take anything away from the amazing defensive performance throughout the entire playoffs.

What's "FYTB"?

F You Tom Brady

[dogfish]

My point was that we were damn lucky that NE chose to go for it instead of kick field goals in that 4th quarter.

that wasn't luck, though. . . that was FEAR of our defense. . .


:defense:

[TXBRONC]

that wasn't luck, though. . . that was FEAR of our defense. . .


:defense:

I believe so. But if he wasn't in fear of the defense from the very beginning of the game he certainly was by the end of it as watched his quarterback get the shit kicked out of him.

[Tned]

I've tried to think of a way to really quantify this.

The week after the SuperBowl, Pat Kirwin on Sirius/XM NFL channel tried to make a list of the best Super Bowl winning defenses. He based it off of traditional Defensive statistics. Points allowed, TDs allowed, number of sacks, number of turnovers etc.

He started off with us at around #6 all-time, but opened it up for listeners to call in if their team had better numbers. We ended up falling to around #10 when they quit talking about it.

But none of those other teams, had as much pressure on their defense as the Broncos. The 2000 Ravens imo are the only team that's close. Everyone else had a competent offense, and some had some really great offenses.

It's one thing to have a defense that plays great when your team is putting points on the board every trip, and you can begin to make the other team one-dimensional based on the need to score, but it's totally different to have a defense do what ours did (and maybe a few others). To play that dominating a game, when so many of those games were one-score or less difference. When the other team had their whole play-book, and entire game-plan at their disposal.

I can't think of a way to really quantify that in a statistical sense. I doubt we ever really see that again, and as some others, it will be something that those of us who follow the team closely will understand, but will be forgotten by most in the years to come.

The only two ways I can think to quantify would be maybe looking at average starting field position of opponent, and maybe number of offensive possessions for opponents.

[EastCoastBronco]

that wasn't luck, though. . . that was FEAR of our defense. . .


:defense:

Fear of a defence does not explain going for it on 4th down 3 times.

[BroncoWave]

Fear of a defence does not explain going for it on 4th down 3 times.

Yeah, BB definitely played it wrong there. Against a defense as good as ours, you just take the points when you can get them and hope you can get our offense to screw up, which they had a propensity for doing for the better part of the season.

[Valar Morghulis]

Fear of a defence does not explain going for it on 4th down 3 times.

I think falling to pick up after the first third down made him feel like he needed to keep going for it.

Had they taken the points first time round they would have taken then the next two times as well.

I honestly think he went for it that first time because he was worried our d would stop them getting that far again on their subsequent drives.

[Tned]

that wasn't luck, though. . . that was FEAR of our defense. . .


:defense:

Exactly, they wound up with more cracks at the endzone that they expected, but Belichek clearly thought they might not see the redzone again in the game.

[TXBRONC]

Exactly, they wound up with more cracks at the endzone that they expected, but Belichek clearly thought they might not see the redzone again in the game.

I think he was also gambling that if he could get the lead his team would be able to hold it.

I think he took Denver lightly or at least their offense.

[OldschoolFreak]

There's another good article linked below that tries to quantify the historicness of the defense. My comment is that here too the Broncos D is underappreciated because the metric can't get at the degree to which the D carried the O.

http://www.footballperspective.com/guest-post-how-do-the-broncos-stack-up-with-other-playoff-defenses/

[Ravage!!!]

Fear of a defence does not explain going for it on 4th down 3 times.

Actually, it shows a coach that was desperate to take advantage of their field position while they had it. Brady has made a HoF career out of getting into FG range in the last minute of the game. It's what he's amazing at. So the chances of getting within TD striking range didn't seem to be feasible, again. Hoping to strike while they could...knowing Tom coudl then get into FG range with less than a minute if had to.