Malik wants quite a bit more according to this source

[artie_dale]

https://twitter.com/EricGoodman/status/702216286680395776


NFL Source close to #Broncos Malik negotiations:

Broncos have come up from 3 years, $24M to 5 years, $50Mish

Jackson wants 5 years, $75M

I was hoping $10-$11M/yr myself, but I don't know nothin about player's worth at that position right now. (he he he)

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

This is so 90 minutes ago.

[TXBRONC]

I can't see Elway giving him that much.

[Slick]

Meet in the middle.

[NightTrainLayne]

Meet in the middle.

Beneath that ol' Georgia pine.

qWKpCmPdGmM

[Slick]

Beneath that ol' Georgia pine.

qWKpCmPdGmM

That is a world class mullet.

[Rick]

I like Malik but at 15 mil per year he can go ahead and wear silver and black.

[tubby]

He gone

[GEM]

$15 Mil a year...he can hit the road. Let him go to a team of nobodies and see if he can make himself a star. Without a star cast around him, he'll probably get 3-4 flags a game. He's good, but he had a damn good supporting cast around him that helped him shine. Can't fault him for trying to make as much as he can, we just can't afford that kind of money and keep this defense together. I think Trevathan and Marshall are far more instrumental to this defense than Malik.

[Joel]

Still say it's Trevor Pryce all over again—except a DE who could play DT was indispensable in our Championship 4-3; a DE who CAN'T play DT is a luxury in our Championship 3-4. He's not even our BEST DE, but wants (a lot) MORE than Wolfe when we can re-sign Walker (who can and DOES play NT too) AND Smith for a fraction of what he's demanding.

I'm grateful for Jacksons aid in getting a Lombardi, and don't begrudge him a comfortable retirement, but let him get it at the competitions expense. We have too many other good DEs, and too many other key players to re-sign (half a dozen critical role players in addition to the SB MVP and, hopefully, our franchise QB.) I'd be unhappy paying a run stuffer with a handful of sacks $8 million/yr: TWICE that is laughable.

[Simple Jaded]

At least we won't have Manning to blame all the FA losses on anymore.

[BroncoWave]

Troy Renck disputing this source...

https://twitter.com/TroyRenck/status/702245910214897664

[Joel]

At least we won't have Manning to blame all the FA losses on anymore.
Dunno: Sounds like we're just gonna sign Mannings 2016 salary over to Jackson and ask Von and Oz to play for love of the game.

[Dapper Dan]

Lol. When a guy wants a lot of money, fans tell him to go **** himself. Meanwhile, if I could make 50 cents more per hour somewhere else, I'd tell my boss to go **** himself.

[BroncoWave]

Lol. When a guy wants a lot of money, fans tell him to go **** himself. Meanwhile, if I could make 50 cents more per hour somewhere else, I'd tell my boss to go **** himself.

Real talk.

[NightTerror218]

Lol. When a guy wants a lot of money, fans tell him to go **** himself. Meanwhile, if I could make 50 cents more per hour somewhere else, I'd tell my boss to go **** himself.

He is not a top 5 at his position or even top 10. #10 on highest paid is $8 M cap hit. Wolfe is around #20 in cap hit.

[Joel]

Lol. When a guy wants a lot of money, fans tell him to go **** himself. Meanwhile, if I could make 50 cents more per hour somewhere else, I'd tell my boss to go **** himself.
Hey, more power to him; we're not gonna go bankrupt just because we're forced to rely on a BETTER player and two quality rotational guys to do a low priority job. If some widget-maker in another state, or better yet IN-state, wants to do that it'll just make our lives that much easier with one less competitor. I don't begrudge him a dime of that $15 mil/yr he reportedly wants: I just want him to get it from someone else, and if he can, that's a win for everyone but their GM. :)

[DenBronx]

I can't see Elway giving him that much.


Neither can I and I keep saying I'd rather have both Danny T and Brandon Marshall over 1 Malik.

Would it be impossible for Shaq Barret or D Ware to add 20 pounds and make the transition to DE?

[Cugel]

Still say it's Trevor Pryce all over again—except a DE who could play DT was indispensable in our Championship 4-3; a DE who CAN'T play DT is a luxury in our Championship 3-4. He's not even our BEST DE, but wants (a lot) MORE than Wolfe when we can re-sign Walker (who can and DOES play NT too) AND Smith for a fraction of what he's demanding.

I'm grateful for Jacksons aid in getting a Lombardi, and don't begrudge him a comfortable retirement, but let him get it at the competitions expense. We have too many other good DEs, and too many other key players to re-sign (half a dozen critical role players in addition to the SB MVP and, hopefully, our franchise QB.) I'd be unhappy paying a run stuffer with a handful of sacks $8 million/yr: TWICE that is laughable.

Basically Cecil Lammey was saying this today on The Fan: "He's gone. When, not if Malik Jackson goes. . . ."

His value to the Broncos is simply not $15 M. He said that if the Broncos were "close", maybe a few hundred thousand difference, he would stay. But, that's saying "if the Raiders offer me $15 M a year, $75 M and the Broncos offer $14.7 M a year, $73.5 M then I'd stay."

This isn't even close to what he's going to get. Goodbye :wave:

[DenBronx]

Derek Wolfe laughs at Maliks Shenanigans and wishes to eat him whole.

Bye bye Malik. This is the same guy that started asking for more money immediately after the SuperBowl win. Had he not fell on the ball in the endzone Ware would have. I like Malik and he's damn good in this defense but no way in hell Elway will pay him 10 mill or more.

[Joel]

Neither can I and I keep saying I'd rather have both Danny T and Brandon Marshall over 1 Malik.

Would it be impossible for Shaq Barret or D Ware to add 20 pounds and make the transition to DE?
It feels weird saying this, but we need elite pass rushers with solid run stopping ability more than we need elite run stoppers with solid pass rushing ability. I liked Robert Ayers and Ebenezer Ekuban a lot; felt both were unappreciated by many fans who look no further than sack stats—but I didn't like them enough to turn a HoF pass rusher and his likely successor into either. Not when we have Wolfe, and should be able to resign Walker and Smith cheaply.

We're not naked at DE; if anything, just the opposite. But even if we were—even if SB Rings make our two solid rotational journeymen too pricey (though I still think we could keep BOTH for a QUARTER of what Jackson wants)—there are probably a dozen more reliable if unremarkable guys like Smith we could have for a song: Winning a SB HELPS us there. And even if THAT weren't true, a pair of All Pro OLBs, a stud NT and an elite DE ensure we'll still have a top pass rush and run D.

There's no reason to panic over losing the SECOND best of one of our front sevens role players. Trevathan's a bigger concern, because our depth there isn't nearly as good and Marshall can't count heavily on our other five starters to share his coverage duties like they can split blitz and run stuffing duties with him and each other. These aren't the Broncos who had NOTHING inside and had to desperately grab whatever they could to stop the run: We're (very) good, and won't miss Jackson.

[NightTerror218]

Neither can I and I keep saying I'd rather have both Danny T and Brandon Marshall over 1 Malik.

Would it be impossible for Shaq Barret or D Ware to add 20 pounds and make the transition to DE?

No you are drunk go home.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

INDIANAPOLIS — The Broncos bathed in Super Bowl 50's gold confetti because of a platinum defense. They want to keep the NFL's top-ranked unit together, and have made a push to sign free-agent Malik Jackson.

The Broncos have negotiated with his agent, and have offered a longterm contract north of an average of $10-million a year, representing a step to keep him off the market which opens March 7. It remains a challenge given Jackson's anticipated suitors, who will have more salary cap space than the Broncos.

The parameters of the current offer make sense based on comparables.

rest - http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_29553248/broncos-make-push-keep-free-agent-malik-jackson

[Dapper Dan]

Derek Wolfe laughs at Maliks Shenanigans and wishes to eat him whole.

Bye bye Malik. This is the same guy that started asking for more money immediately after the SuperBowl win. Had he not fell on the ball in the endzone Ware would have. I like Malik and he's damn good in this defense but no way in hell Elway will pay him 10 mill or more.

:rolleyes:

[TXBRONC]

Lol. When a guy wants a lot of money, fans tell him to go **** himself. Meanwhile, if I could make 50 cents more per hour somewhere else, I'd tell my boss to go **** himself.

I have no problem with him wanting more money but if he wants $15 per year from the Broncos I don't see it happening.

[DenBronx]

Derek Wolfe laughs at Maliks Shenanigans and wishes to eat him whole.

Bye bye Malik. This is the same guy that started asking for more money immediately after the SuperBowl win. Had he not fell on the ball in the endzone Ware would have. I like Malik and he's damn good in this defense but no way in hell Elway will pay him 10 mill or more.

:rolleyes:


Don't you roll your eyes at me dammit! I am going to call your boss in the morning and tell him to deduct .50 an hour.

[DenBronx]

Neither can I and I keep saying I'd rather have both Danny T and Brandon Marshall over 1 Malik.

Would it be impossible for Shaq Barret or D Ware to add 20 pounds and make the transition to DE?

No you are drunk go home.


No, I haven't started drinking yet tonight. That was thoroughly and soberly thought out. I have a history of being a mastermind when it comes to my football IQ.

[Simple Jaded]

Basically Cecil Lammey was saying this today on The Fan: "He's gone. When, not if Malik Jackson goes. . . ."

His value to the Broncos is simply not $15 M. He said that if the Broncos were "close", maybe a few hundred thousand difference, he would stay. But, that's saying "if the Raiders offer me $15 M a year, $75 M and the Broncos offer $14.7 M a year, $73.5 M then I'd stay."

This isn't even close to what he's going to get. Goodbye :wave:

Speaking of gone, Cecil Lamme needs to get gone.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I wonder how many of these athletes consider the cost of moving and the cost of living changes?

[Dapper Dan]

I wonder how many of these athletes consider the cost of moving and the cost of living changes?

I would think they have some kind of seminars and junk from the NFLPA that talks about stuff like that.

[Dapper Dan]

Don't you roll your eyes at me dammit! I am going to call your boss in the morning and tell him to deduct .50 an hour.

It wouldn't take much to convince him. He's a greedy Republican anyway. No raises. No bonuses.

[Lancane]

Lol. When a guy wants a lot of money, fans tell him to go **** himself. Meanwhile, if I could make 50 cents more per hour somewhere else, I'd tell my boss to go **** himself.

If that .50 cents could buy you a mansion, sports cars and more, then I would agree. But it won't Dan, for you that is a utility bill one of his checks right now would cover our bills entirely for a year, sorry I just don't feel sorry for them.

[Dapper Dan]

If that .50 cents could by you a mansion, sports csrs and more, then I would agree. But it won't Dan, for you that is a utility bill one of his checks right now would cover our bills entirely for a year, sorry I just don't feel sorry for them.

Yeah, but it could set up his grandkids for life instead of just his kids. I don't feel sorry for him either. I just won't go tell a guy to go **** himself because he's getting the most money possible in a sport where players average like 3 years of play.

[Rick]

I have no issues with him trying to get every penny he can, but as for my team, every penny counts, and if he wants more than I can afford to pay him and still retain other players, its is bye-bye, reality of salary cap.

[BroncoWave]

I have no issues with him trying to get every penny he can, but as for my team, every penny counts, and if he wants more than I can afford to pay him and still retain other players, its is bye-bye, reality of salary cap.

You're not the one writing the checks man...

[Rick]

No shit lol.

That doesn't change the logic though.

[Northman]

Lol. When a guy wants a lot of money, fans tell him to go **** himself. Meanwhile, if I could make 50 cents more per hour somewhere else, I'd tell my boss to go **** himself.

I havent seen anyone say he needs to go **** himself. People are just saying if he wants more money he will likely have to get it elsewhere which is fine, its just how the business works.

[Davii]

5 years 50 million is a fair number. If he's looking for 5 years 75 million as reported he will probably have to get it elsewhere. I don't see Elway paying him more than JJ Watt makes. I'd love to have him here in Denver but the reality is if he can get that kind of dough elsewhere he should, that's a lot of money.

[Valar Morghulis]

I would offer the same deal as Wolfe. Take it or leave

[TXBRONC]

5 years 50 million is a fair number. If he's looking for 5 years 75 million as reported he will probably have to get it elsewhere. I don't see Elway paying him more than JJ Watt makes. I'd love to have him here in Denver but the reality is if he can get that kind of dough elsewhere he should, that's a lot of money.

He shouldn't get more than Wolfe. Wolfe's are as good Jackson and he played four less games than Jackson.

[artie_dale]

Lol. When a guy wants a lot of money, fans tell him to go **** himself. Meanwhile, if I could make 50 cents more per hour somewhere else, I'd tell my boss to go **** himself.

Oh, I'm with ya. I'm never upset about how much a player wants and gets. I don't blame anyone for wanting more, even at the cost of relocating. I get more angry when the team over pays or pays a player what he wants and the team puts itself in the hole. Kudos to Malik if he can get what he wants. Both sides compromising so both sides win would be a bonus.

[Dapper Dan]

I havent seen anyone say he needs to go **** himself. People are just saying if he wants more money he will likely have to get it elsewhere which is fine, its just how the business works.

People seem awful butthurt about it.

[GEM]

People seem awful butthurt about it.

It sucks to lose a good player over money. It's not butthurt. He'll get his money here or somewhere else, there's no fault in that. People love their team and expect that any player is lucky to be on their team. For us, it's entertainment. For them, it's a job. A job to some is getting the most money they can, but for some it's getting decent money, but being somewhere you enjoy. I haven't seen anyone outright talking shit about him, just that by the look of it and with all the players we need to sign, his expectations might not fit.

[TXBRONC]

People seem awful butthurt about it.

GEM nailed it.


It sucks to lose a good player over money. It's not butthurt. He'll get his money here or somewhere else, there's no fault in that. People love their team and expect that any player is lucky to be on their team. For us, it's entertainment. For them, it's a job. A job to some is getting the most money they can, but for some it's getting decent money, but being somewhere you enjoy. I haven't seen anyone outright talking shit about him, just that by the look of it and with all the players we need to sign, his expectations might not fit.

[Dapper Dan]

It sucks to lose a good player over money. It's not butthurt. He'll get his money here or somewhere else, there's no fault in that. People love their team and expect that any player is lucky to be on their team. For us, it's entertainment. For them, it's a job. A job to some is getting the most money they can, but for some it's getting decent money, but being somewhere you enjoy. I haven't seen anyone outright talking shit about him, just that by the look of it and with all the players we need to sign, his expectations might not fit.

Ok. Maybe I read everything wrong then.

[Davii]

It sucks to lose a good player over money. It's not butthurt. He'll get his money here or somewhere else, there's no fault in that. People love their team and expect that any player is lucky to be on their team. For us, it's entertainment. For them, it's a job. A job to some is getting the most money they can, but for some it's getting decent money, but being somewhere you enjoy. I haven't seen anyone outright talking shit about him, just that by the look of it and with all the players we need to sign, his expectations might not fit.

Exactly. If we're talking about 100k, you're a douchebag for leaving because it will cost you that much to move, taxes, etc. If we're talking 5 million dollars, which we most likely are, then there's no way the team can match that and go get yours, anyone deserves that.

We're not talking about Dumervil screwing with the team over his contract then taking LESS money to go elsewhere. We're talking about a guy who is pricing himself at the VERY TOP of 3-4 DEs. The Broncos cannot afford to "set the market" on 3-4 DEs, and if he can set the market, more power to him.

[GEM]

Exactly. If we're talking about 100k, you're a douchebag for leaving because it will cost you that much to move, taxes, etc. If we're talking 5 million dollars, which we most likely are, then there's no way the team can match that and go get yours, anyone deserves that.

We're not talking about Dumervil screwing with the team over his contract then taking LESS money to go elsewhere. We're talking about a guy who is pricing himself at the VERY TOP of 3-4 DEs. The Broncos cannot afford to "set the market" on 3-4 DEs, and if he can set the market, more power to him.

The closest to shit talking I could get is I hope he can shine when he doesn't have a surrounding cast like the D he was on this past season. Hell, he could, who knows. Money is his important factor, can't fault him for that. He could get his knee tore up a week after signing a huge contract, so that has to play into a player's mind. It's not shit on him, but we just can't afford that kind of money with all these other players needing contracts. He's not JJ Watt, I don't want the Broncos paying him Watt kind of money...we'd have to let 2 or 3 players go in order to pay that kind of money. How is paying 1 guy all the money and have a shit cast around him working out for the Texans? I don't want to lose Trevathan just to give Malik that extra $25 mil. In this defense, Malik is dispensable because of those other players. Let him get his money, we keep more of our core guys and call it a day. Good luck, Malik.

[TXBRONC]

Exactly. If we're talking about 100k, you're a douchebag for leaving because it will cost you that much to move, taxes, etc. If we're talking 5 million dollars, which we most likely are, then there's no way the team can match that and go get yours, anyone deserves that.

We're not talking about Dumervil screwing with the team over his contract then taking LESS money to go elsewhere. We're talking about a guy who is pricing himself at the VERY TOP of 3-4 DEs. The Broncos cannot afford to "set the market" on 3-4 DEs, and if he can set the market, more power to him.

I'm not sure he is in the very top of 3-4 but he can get that kind of money good for him.

[Slick]

My only issue in regards to the comments about Malik is acting like losing him is no big deal, he can be easily replaced, etc.

That's insanity. He's an outstanding player and will most definitely be missed if he does in fact sign somewhere else.

[GEM]

My only issue in regards to the comments about Malik is acting like losing him is no big deal, he can be easily replaced, etc.

That's insanity. He's an outstanding player and will most definitely be missed if he does in fact sign somewhere else.

It's a big deal, for sure. But we have other guys on the dline (Holy shit, the dline is a strong point, in Denver??? what!! :D ) that could make that loss not so horrible, but losing Linebackers could definitely hurt more.

[TXBRONC]

My only issue in regards to the comments about Malik is acting like losing him is no big deal, he can be easily replaced, etc.

That's insanity. He's an outstanding player and will most definitely be missed if he does in fact sign somewhere else.

It depends on what Wade Phillips is able to do with replacement. Losing Von would impact the defense more.

[Davii]

My only issue in regards to the comments about Malik is acting like losing him is no big deal, he can be easily replaced, etc.

That's insanity. He's an outstanding player and will most definitely be missed if he does in fact sign somewhere else.

It took a few years to grow him that good, it will likely take the same to grow his replacement that good if we do it via draft.

[GEM]

It depends on what Wade Phillips is able to do with replacement. Losing Von would impact the defense more.

I'd say losing Wolfe would be more hurtful than Malik. He can get to the passer and he's INSANE against the run. He came at a friggen great price and wants to be here. I'm happy they went Wolfe over Malik. It'd be so good if they could keep both, but just don't see it with the number Malik wants.

[Slick]

It's a big deal, for sure. But we have other guys on the dline (Holy shit, the dline is a strong point, in Denver??? what!! :D ) that could make that loss not so horrible, but losing Linebackers could definitely hurt more.

I think a linebacker would be much easier to replace.

Denver beat Tom Brady into submission rushing 3 or 4 guys, one of them was Malik.

[Davii]

I'd say losing Wolfe would be more hurtful than Malik. He can get to the passer and he's INSANE against the run. He came at a friggen great price and wants to be here. I'm happy they went Wolfe over Malik. It'd be so good if they could keep both, but just don't see it with the number Malik wants.

I think the offer on the table is very fair. It prices him as the #8 3-4 DE in the NFL and puts him ahead of Wolfe. The Broncos might have a SMALL amount of wiggle room up, maybe we could see 11 a year, but I'm certain they can't (and won't) get near the 15 it appears his camp is wanting. They didn't dream the number up, someone out there (Raiders) is probably willing to give it up.

[Davii]

I think a linebacker would be much easier to replace.

Denver beat Tom Brady into submission rushing 3 or 4 guys, one of them was Malik.

One was also at times Wolfe, Von, Ware, Trevathan, Marshall, Ward, etc. I'm not certain that Malik is "the key". If he is, then pay the man the 15 million he wants, but I think the contract offer out there of 10 million per year is a very fair offer to him, I could see 11 maybe but not 15.

He's NOT easily replaced, his worth is about 10-11 million dollars, you can either pay that to replace him or you can draft and wait a couple years for someone to hopefully grow as he did.

[The Glue Factory]

The closest to shit talking I could get is I hope he can shine when he doesn't have a surrounding cast like the D he was on this past season. Hell, he could, who knows. Money is his important factor, can't fault him for that. He could get his knee tore up a week after signing a huge contract, so that has to play into a player's mind. It's not shit on him, but we just can't afford that kind of money with all these other players needing contracts. He's not JJ Watt, I don't want the Broncos paying him Watt kind of money...we'd have to let 2 or 3 players go in order to pay that kind of money. How is paying 1 guy all the money and have a shit cast around him working out for the Texans? I don't want to lose Trevathan just to give Malik that extra $25 mil. In this defense, Malik is dispensable because of those other players. Let him get his money, we keep more of our core guys and call it a day. Good luck, Malik.

At least Malik isn't saying he wants to be here AND asking for top dollar. I wish him well, wherever he ends up (doesn't seem like it'll be in Denver.)

[Northman]

People seem awful butthurt about it.

Meh, no one likes to see good players leave because in a perfect world we would like them all to stay. But people also understand that money can become tight for a franchise it can leave a bitter taste in fans mouths even though we all understand thats how the business works.

[Northman]

One was also at times Wolfe, Von, Ware, Trevathan, Marshall, Ward, etc. I'm not certain that Malik is "the key". If he is, then pay the man the 15 million he wants, but I think the contract offer out there of 10 million per year is a very fair offer to him, I could see 11 maybe but not 15.

He's NOT easily replaced, his worth is about 10-11 million dollars, you can either pay that to replace him or you can draft and wait a couple years for someone to hopefully grow as he did.

I said it a few weeks back that Denver cannot keep everyone, its just not how it works but as a team you have to consider who is a priority over another. Personally, as good as Malik is i think we will be ok on the defensive front and with Wade still being here i really dont mind if Malik walks for money. Its a business decision and understandable but i wont freak out and get doom and gloom if he does leave either.

[Joel]

Exactly. If we're talking about 100k, you're a douchebag for leaving because it will cost you that much to move, taxes, etc. If we're talking 5 million dollars, which we most likely are, then there's no way the team can match that and go get yours, anyone deserves that.

We're not talking about Dumervil screwing with the team over his contract then taking LESS money to go elsewhere. We're talking about a guy who is pricing himself at the VERY TOP of 3-4 DEs. The Broncos cannot afford to "set the market" on 3-4 DEs, and if he can set the market, more power to him.
This is what gets me: He's not just pricing himself at the top of the 3-4 DE market, but the DE market PERIOD—even though a 3-4 DE has substantially less value than a 4-3 DE. According to Spotrac, this is the average annual salary of best paid DEs (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/average/defensive-end/):


1
J.J. Watt (http://www.spotrac.com/redirect/player/7726/) (Houston)
$16,667,571


2
Mario Williams (http://www.spotrac.com/redirect/player/3849/) (Buffalo)
$16,000,000


3
Robert Quinn (http://www.spotrac.com/redirect/player/7729/) (Los Angeles)
$14,253,724


4
Charles Johnson (http://www.spotrac.com/redirect/player/1227/) (Carolina)
$12,666,667


5
Calais Campbell (http://www.spotrac.com/redirect/player/3941/) (Arizona)
$11,000,000



Cameron Jordan (http://www.spotrac.com/redirect/player/7739/) (New Orleans)
$11,000,000



ALL are 4-3 DEs except Watt (who's a freak of nature; Jackson's not even in the same galaxy.) Wolfes $9.175 mil/yr is 10th highest, but 4th among 3-4 DEs.

If Jackson wants top 4-3 DE money to play 3-4 DE, I hope he gets it elsewhere; he's sure as HELL not worth $6 million/yr more than Wolfe.

[arapaho2]

malik was a important cog in the machine, not as important as others such as von, or Harris or even Trevathan

but paying him top money probably means losing other key players and I would rather let him walk and keep the others. yes its a business, yes he has the right to get what he gets
but I would much rather stick with players like wolfe and harris, loyalty means a lot to me and when some of the best defensive players on the team show they are willing to take less to stay with the team that brought them into the league and gave them the opportunity to become millionaires, I would rather take those types any day over the guys willing to play for a scrub team just to get more money

[Slick]

One was also at times Wolfe, Von, Ware, Trevathan, Marshall, Ward, etc. I'm not certain that Malik is "the key". If he is, then pay the man the 15 million he wants, but I think the contract offer out there of 10 million per year is a very fair offer to him, I could see 11 maybe but not 15.

He's NOT easily replaced, his worth is about 10-11 million dollars, you can either pay that to replace him or you can draft and wait a couple years for someone to hopefully grow as he did.

Oh, absolutely. The defense was as good as it was because of the sum of all of the parts.

Me wanting Denver to keep Malik is two fold. One because they developed him into the player he is, and two, because Denver struggled for over a decade to put together a defensive line like this one.

If a team gives him his 75 for 5 years, I won't begrudge him but I'll be really sad to see him go.

[Joel]

I think a linebacker would be much easier to replace.
Maybe in a 4-3, but the OLBs and NT are the 3-4s keys; DE are complementary players, and Wolfe's a better one than Jackson anyway, plus we have solid rotational depth we can re-sign for a LOT less than Jackson's demanding. Give Walker and Smith each $2-3 million/yr and we can plug either into Jacksons spot without missing a beat, and Walker can still rotate with Sly without losing anything (something Jackson can't do.)


Denver beat Tom Brady into submission rushing 3 or 4 guys, one of them was Malik.
One of many, with Sly, Wolfe and Ware/Miller each far more critical. If Jackson wants to be paid like he's indispensable, he'll have to find a team where that's true.


Me wanting Denver to keep Malik is two fold. One because they developed him into the player he is, and two, because Denver struggled for over a decade to put together a defensive line like this one.
I get that, really, but it's important to understand this team isn't those teams:

We've got a stud NT (in his final contract year, incidentally; we can't afford to break the bank now with a lot of people to re-sign in 2017) a stud DE (not Jackson) and two more reliable guys to rotate with both, plus a PAIR of HoF pass rushers. This isn't the Broncos from a decade ago that were good for 5 yds up the gut every time because they had NO DTs worthy of the name. It's a solid line with plenty of depth good enoug it won't miss its 4th or 5th best member.

[Slick]

Maybe in a 4-3, but the OLBs and NT are the 3-4s keys; DE are complementary players, and Wolfe's a better one than Jackson anyway, plus we have solid rotational depth we can re-sign for a LOT less than Jackson's demanding. Give Walker and Smith each $2-3 million/yr and we can plug either into Jacksons spot without missing a beat, and Walker can still rotate with Sly without losing anything (something Jackson can't do.)


One of many, with Sly, Wolfe and Ware/Miller each far more critical. If Jackson wants to be paid like he's indispensable, he'll have to find a team where that's true.


I get that, really, but it's important to understand this team isn't those teams:

We've got a stud NT (in his final contract year, incidentally; we can't afford to break the bank now with a lot of people to re-sign in 2017) a stud DE (not Jackson) and two more reliable guys to rotate with both, plus a PAIR of HoF pass rushers. This isn't the Broncos from a decade ago that were good for 5 yds up the gut every time because they had NO DTs worthy of the name. It's a solid line with plenty of depth good enoug it won't miss its 4th or 5th best member.

This reiterates my point from a few posts back.

Plug in Smith and Walker without missing a beat? I disagree.

[TXBRONC]

I'd say losing Wolfe would be more hurtful than Malik. He can get to the passer and he's INSANE against the run. He came at a friggen great price and wants to be here. I'm happy they went Wolfe over Malik. It'd be so good if they could keep both, but just don't see it with the number Malik wants.

I completely agree and given that Elway made sure that Wolfe had a new contract before this playoffs started speaks volumes.

[broncofaninfla]

Malik could have been rich and happy by staying in Denver, instead he'll play for some second rate organization and just be rich. Some former players are life long Broncos in my eyes but he won't be one of them. It's all about the money for him, good riddance, especially after the "have to feed my family" statement after being offered more than he is worth to stay.

[Ravage!!!]

Lol. When a guy wants a lot of money, fans tell him to go **** himself. Meanwhile, if I could make 50 cents more per hour somewhere else, I'd tell my boss to go **** himself.

Bingo. Not to mention, the MOMENT that player misses a tackle, the fans want him benched. THey want him to be 'loyal', play cheap, and play great. If not, then they can go screw off.

[BroncoJoe]

Bingo. Not to mention, the MOMENT that player misses a tackle, the fans want him benched. THey want him to be 'loyal', play cheap, and play great. If not, then they can go screw off.

That's why we're fans.

The minute he puts on another teams uniform, he and anyone else, is dead to me.

I'm a fan of the Broncos. Not the players.

[GEM]

Bingo. Not to mention, the MOMENT that player misses a tackle, the fans want him benched. THey want him to be 'loyal', play cheap, and play great. If not, then they can go screw off.

Except that hasn't happened in this thread or on the board in regards to Malik. No one has bad mouthed him, in fact, he's received a ton of praise. Near everyone has posted that he's a great player, they wish he would stay, but we can't afford him at the price he wants. In general, yea, it happens, but hasn't in regards to Malik so it's irrelevant to this thread.

[Ravage!!!]

Except that hasn't happened in this thread or on the board in regards to Malik. No one has bad mouthed him, in fact, he's received a ton of praise. Near everyone has posted that he's a great player, they wish he would stay, but we can't afford him at the price he wants. In general, yea, it happens, but hasn't in regards to Malik so it's irrelevant to this thread.

it's not irrrelevent to the post I quoted when making the comment. It's relevent in the discussion. So yeah, in general because people in this thread have already stated "if he wants that kind of money then he can ________" ..which goes to my point.

[Ravage!!!]

That's why we're fans.

The minute he puts on another teams uniform, he and anyone else, is dead to me.

I'm a fan of the Broncos. Not the players.

Ok. DOesn't make the point less valid. Some "fans" purely expect loyalty from the players on the team, but don't really show any in return. It's a double standard that certainly merits comment.

[GEM]

it's not irrrelevent to the post I quoted when making the comment. It's relevent in the discussion. So yeah, in general because people in this thread have already stated "if he wants that kind of money then he can ________" ..which goes to my point.

That's just facts living in a salary cap. If player wants more than team can offer, he can go somewhere else. No one is saying ship him off if he comes at an affordable price. If he prices himself out of our situation, bye. There are a shit ton more players this offseason and next that we need to keep, not just him.

[Ravage!!!]

That's just facts living in a salary cap. If player wants more than team can offer, he can go somewhere else. No one is saying ship him off if he comes at an affordable price. If he prices himself out of our situation, bye. There are a shit ton more players this offseason and next that we need to keep, not just him.

yeah.... this is all obvious. I understand the cap.

[GEM]

yeah.... this is all obvious. I understand the cap.

So it's negative to say that if we can't afford him, he can go elsewhere?

[BroncoJoe]

Ok. DOesn't make the point less valid. Some "fans" purely expect loyalty from the players on the team, but don't really show any in return. It's a double standard that certainly merits comment.

Not sure how that's a double standard. I'm a fan of the Denver Broncos Football Club. I couldn't care less about the other 1,643 players on other teams - even if they once played for the Broncos. I do want them to be loyal to the team I support. If they're not, F them.

[Cugel]

As for Malik making more than JJ Watt, Watt signed his contract a couple of years ago. He'd get a lot more $ if he were a FA now.

Malik is probably the best FA who will actually get to FA, so teams (Raiders) will pay a premium to sign him.

For the Broncos though, he's not the highest priority. Priority FAs in Order of importance:

1. Von Miller (franchise tag). He'll get $20 M a year.

2. Brock Osweiler. He could possibly sign for $12 M a year, but if he hits FA it will be much more. Definitely over $15 M and possibly considerably more than that if the reports that Cleveland is looking to make a huge offer for Osweiler are true.

3. Malik Jackson. Broncos are probably looking to get him for less than $12 M a year. He's likely to get a $15 M offer from the Raiders, so he's probably gone.

4. Danny Trevathan. Another guy who will command a big salary increase from the $551k he earned in 2015.

5. Brandon Marshall. RFA so he can be kept with a first round tender. He might get an offer sheet, but Broncos have the right to match.

6. C.J. Anderson. Restricted free agent, so they can keep him too. But, he'll get somewhere in the neighbourhood of $2 M/ per.

7. Todd Davis, ILB. He's a guy who could be snapped up by some team and offered a starting job for a lot more money. He's only 24 and is a quality backup to Brandon Marshnall. If Marshall goes elsewhere, expect the Broncos to offer Davis more money and give him the starting job.

The way teams pick apart the SB winner is by picking up their backups. Usually the backups on a SB winner are better than the starters for about 1/2 the teams in the league, so they can offer them more money and a chance to start elsewhere.

Then some of the depth that was the reason the Broncos won the SB disappears and year by year the old team chemistry changes. Some guys get big contracts, some leave, some just aren't as hungry.

It's never going to be as good as it was this past season. So, the only chance for the Broncos to repeat as SB champion is for the offense, particularly the offensive line, to be much, much better.

[dogfish]

That's why we're fans.

The minute he puts on another teams uniform, he and anyone else, is dead to me.

I'm a fan of the Broncos. Not the players.


Not sure how that's a double standard. I'm a fan of the Denver Broncos Football Club. I couldn't care less about the other 1,643 players on other teams - even if they once played for the Broncos. I do want them to be loyal to the team I support. If they're not, F them.

good lord, baldy, you're a savage!

:lol:


come on. . . players are people too!

[Cugel]

Fans may want players to be loyal to the team, but the reality is that the team has zero loyalty to the player. None. Players are like cattle and the minute they are of no more use, they are cut loose.

And the smarter players know it.

"I'm looking out for #1 and #1 ain't you. You ain't even #2!"

[BroncoJoe]

good lord, baldy, you're a savage!

:lol:


come on. . . players are people too!


Fans may want players to be loyal to the team, but the reality is that the team has zero loyalty to the player. None. Players are like cattle and the minute they are of no more use, they are cut loose.

And the smarter players know it.

"I'm looking out for #1 and #1 ain't you. You ain't even #2!"

I. Don't. Care. It's the profession they chose - I'm not feeling sorry for any of them, nor do I have to like it/them if they switch teams.

[TXBRONC]

That's why we're fans.

The minute he puts on another teams uniform, he and anyone else, is dead to me.

I'm a fan of the Broncos. Not the players.

Thank you BroncoJoe Saprano.

[BroncoWave]

Joe, no matter how hard you try you will still never supplant Beef as #1 fan.

[BroncoJoe]

Joe, no matter how hard you try you will still never supplant Beef as #1 fan.

Even if I was a fan of them before he was born? Attended games at the original Mile High Stadium - even before the upgrades? Attempted to win tickets to their 2nd Super Bowl (1st with John Elway) by sitting in a tub filled with ice and orange jello on the 16th street mall downtown?

I think not.

[dogfish]

were people doing shots of the jello?

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

were people doing shots of the jello?

Ewh

[dogfish]

Ewh

joe's musk is stronger than any vodka. . . :lol:

[Tned]

That's why we're fans.

The minute he puts on another teams uniform, he and anyone else, is dead to me.

I'm a fan of the Broncos. Not the players.

I've had a few exceptions to that rule, such as Atwater and even Champ (even though I know he didn't start as a Bronco). There have been a few lifelong or near lifelong Broncos that moved on at the end of their career and I remained a fan.

[Davii]

joe's musk is stronger than any vodka. . . :lol:

So, you're saying you find Joe's funk intoxicating. Interesting.

[dogfish]

So, you're saying you find Joe's funk intoxicating. Interesting.

i think everyone does. . .

[TXBRONC]

i think everyone does. . .

I've never smelled his funk and have no desire to do so.

[dogfish]

I've never smelled his funk and have no desire to do so.

it's pretty awesome. . . not as awesome as re-signing malik, though. . .

[Dapper Dan]

My only issue in regards to the comments about Malik is acting like losing him is no big deal, he can be easily replaced, etc.

That's insanity. He's an outstanding player and will most definitely be missed if he does in fact sign somewhere else.

I guess that's the way I've been seeing the comments too. The "don't let the door hit you on the way out" kind of attitude. It sounds like butthurt because the guy would take 15 million a year somewhere else instead of 10 million a year here. I think he's been undervalued around here for a very long time.

[Davii]

I just saw on Facebook that Malik's camp say he is looking at 12 million per year. If we're at 10 and he's at 12 we might get something done.

[Jsteve01]

There's just no way that I can justify paying him like 4 million dollars more per year than wolfe. Especially when wolfe played four fewer games and put up the same numbers in sacks, and was much better in run defense

[Dapper Dan]

yeah.... this is all obvious. I understand the cap.

A large portion of the thread has been full of captain obvious. :lol:

"If we can afford him he will stay, and if we can't he will sign elsewhere." Astute observation. :laugh:

[Dapper Dan]

I don't want to get into comparing players, so they both seem very good to me. Two of the best 3-4 DEs in the league.

[dogfish]

I don't want to get into comparing players, so they both seem very good to me. Two of the best 3-4 DEs in the league.

i definitely agree with the idea that you can't pay malik 14 or 15 mil-- but if you can keep him in the range of 12-ish, i don't care who's paid more or who's better. . . you're ultimately better off with both of them. . . when they're both consistently single blocked, you double your chances of one of them getting loose. . . it's one of a few elements that made our D overall so disruptive, and so tough to deal with. . . IF you can keep that together without letting von or os go to make it happen, you have to take a really long look at it. . . not saying we can't still be sick without 97, but we know how good we are with him. . .

also, one point regarding malik vs. wolfe; malik hasn't lost a season to injuries, OR been suspended. . . even if wolfe is a bit better at his peak, he hasn't been as reliable or as consistent, so maybe it's only right that he get a little less on a deal. . . anyway. . .

every team just got an extra 1.5 mil in cap space from an NFL fiasco, and clady's already said he'll take a cut-- we really should get one from vasquez as well. . . and we've reportedly asked ware to take one, also. . . we'll see about all that. . . but if we're only two mil apart, we might be able to bridge that gap. . . forget drafting a replacement if we don't have to-- i'd rather bring as much of the D back as we can-- then spend your top picks on a couple OLs and a RB, and saddle up and ride. . .

[Joel]

This reiterates my point from a few posts back.

Plug in Smith and Walker without missing a beat? I disagree.
We did it the whole month Wolfe (a better DE than Jackson) was suspended: Kept perfect time, like a well-oiled QB and RB-smashing machine, and when Wolfe came back, all Walker did was split time with Sly the whole rest of the season, again without missing a beat. Remember when I kept fretting over repeatedly deactivating Kilgo, leaving us with NO designated NT in case fatigue or injury got to Sly? Walker's why we not only got away with that, but won a SB doing it.

[Joel]

As for Malik making more than JJ Watt, Watt signed his contract a couple of years ago. He'd get a lot more $ if he were a FA now.

Malik is probably the best FA who will actually get to FA, so teams (Raiders) will pay a premium to sign him.
Maybe, but Watt's WAY better Jackson; even adjusted for two years inflation, he's not the NFLs most most valuable DE, nor even 3-4 DE: He's not even OURS.


For the Broncos though, he's not the highest priority. Priority FAs in Order of importance:

1. Von Miller (franchise tag). He'll get $20 M a year.
If we've got that much LEFT; handing Jackson AND Oz >$10M/yr, plus re-signing the rest of our FAs and signing our rookies, would make that unlikely.


2. Brock Osweiler. He could possibly sign for $12 M a year, but if he hits FA it will be much more. Definitely over $15 M and possibly considerably more than that if the reports that Cleveland is looking to make a huge offer for Osweiler are true.
If we tag Von, how would Oz NOT hit FA? His contract expires in mere days, and he has absolutely ZERO reason not to field other offers before signing with us, if only to see how much he can get from the team of his choice.


3. Malik Jackson. Broncos are probably looking to get him for less than $12 M a year. He's likely to get a $15 M offer from the Raiders, so he's probably gone.
I sure as Hell hope so, because I wouldn't want to give him $8M/yr, much less $10 or $12. We need that money too many other more important places.


4. Danny Trevathan. Another guy who will command a big salary increase from the $551k he earned in 2015.
He's more critical than Jackson, because 1) there aren't 5 other guys who can share Marshalls coverage duties and 2) our DE depth's WAY better than our ILB depth.


5. Brandon Marshall. RFA so he can be kept with a first round tender. He might get an offer sheet, but Broncos have the right to match.
Once again: Match with WHAT? Our guaranteed CHANCE to match a $5M+/yr carries no guaranteed ABILITY.


6. C.J. Anderson. Restricted free agent, so they can keep him too. But, he'll get somewhere in the neighbourhood of $2 M/ per.
Sounds about right, and he and Marshall illustrate the earlier point: A few million here, a few million there, and pretty soon you're talking real money. ;)


7. Todd Davis, ILB. He's a guy who could be snapped up by some team and offered a starting job for a lot more money. He's only 24 and is a quality backup to Brandon Marshnall. If Marshall goes elsewhere, expect the Broncos to offer Davis more money and give him the starting job.
Yikes; granted, ILBs have less run stuffing duties in a 3-4, but a 230 lb. ILB still gives me the willies. He's fast, but he's a LB, not a safety.


The way teams pick apart the SB winner is by picking up their backups. Usually the backups on a SB winner are better than the starters for about 1/2 the teams in the league, so they can offer them more money and a chance to start elsewhere.
That's A way; another is overpaying for starters at less valuable positions champs must expose to protect key starters. That's better for champs, because keeping lots of young depth good enough to start on most teams keeps them Champs: Paying $50M/yr for 3 guys only worth $20M/yr is "the [short] way" from champs to 4-12.


Then some of the depth that was the reason the Broncos won the SB disappears and year by year the old team chemistry changes. Some guys get big contracts, some leave, some just aren't as hungry.

It's never going to be as good as it was this past season. So, the only chance for the Broncos to repeat as SB champion is for the offense, particularly the offensive line, to be much, much better.
The best chance is to keep most of that quality depth and the most critical starters, while letting less critical ones get overpaid by the competition. That's a MUCH better chance than doing the opposite, because in a year or two we're stuck with a bunch of aging guys who only LOOKED elite while surrounded by teammates who were, with NOTHING backing up ANYONE. Just to further illustrate that:

That 7-man priority list omitted our starting C and a placekicker NEVER MISSED THIS POSTSEASON, an NFL record accounting for a single point less than HALF our playoff scoring. There's also Antonio Smith, whom we could probably keep for a QUARTER of what we've reportedly offered Jackson, a pair of STs studs and steady backups in Bruton and Bolden, and literally ALL our #3 WR candidates (i.e. Fowler, Caldwell and Norwood, who also set a SB punt return record.)

Then there's all the rookies; 1st round picks are essentially locked in, and not at the rookie minimum.

So yeah, I'd like Jackson to return, but define "affordable." If it means we can re-sign him, most of the other key players we need to re-sign, sign all our draft picks AND not be in Cap Hell when we have TWENTY-NINE 2017 FAs (including guys like Emmanuel Sanders, Shaq Barrett, Louis Vasquez, Sly Williams, Darien Stewart, Kayvon Webster, Britton Colquitt and Vance Walker) then great; I'm all for it.

If "affordable" just means "we can fit him and 52 other warm bodies under our cap" then no, thanks.

[silkamilkamonico]

I guess that's the way I've been seeing the comments too. The "don't let the door hit you on the way out" kind of attitude. It sounds like butthurt because the guy would take 15 million a year somewhere else instead of 10 million a year here. I think he's been undervalued around here for a very long time.

Agreed, and the butthurt leads to idiotic comments like "Go play for Silver and Gold and suck around scrubs", and even more idiotic comments like "Trevaithon is more important to this defense anyways".

I always loved that one.

Dude should get as much money as he can wherever that is. He already has a SuperBowl. And Denver fans should be thanking his services and contributions in helping them get that SUperBowl.

[Joel]

Agreed, and the butthurt leads to idiotic comments like "Go play for Silver and Gold and suck around scrubs", and even more idiotic comments like "Trevaithon is more important to this defense anyways".

I always loved that one.
We have 4-5 other guys who do Jacksons job as well as or BETTER than he; we have ONE who does Trevathans as well—and HE'S a FA. Add to that that Trevathans primary job is pass coverage in a passing league while Jacksons is run-stuffing in a passing league, and which is (far) more valuable?


Dude should get as much money as he can wherever that is. He already has a SuperBowl. And Denver fans should be thanking his services and contributions in helping them get that SUperBowl.
Can't speak for others, but I've repeatedly expressed thanks for his big contributions to winning himself and the team team its first championship in two decades, and the best of luck ensuring his family a comfortable retirement now that he need no longer chase a championship. In fact, I actually PREFER that, because the other 31 teams are the competition and I strongly doubt anyone paying Jackson $15M/yr will get even HALF that much value, so: Better they than we. :)

[DenBronx]

I just saw on Facebook that Malik's camp say he is looking at 12 million per year. If we're at 10 and he's at 12 we might get something done.

11 mill sounds reasonable I guess. Still want to keep Brandon Marshall, Von Miller and Brock if possible.

[Valar Morghulis]

I don't think they should offer him a penny more than Wolfe. That set the market, to pay more is disrespectful to Wolfe.

I am one of those guys you are taking about dan.

I hope he goes somewhere else, including Oakland they can over pay and watch him under perform. Which I am certain he will.

However I would love him to stay, but not for what he is asking.

I would rather keep trev and b marsh than Jackson. Since it is unlikely we keep all three, I think we can find a plug and play to replace Jackson that what we could at linebacker

[TXBRONC]

it's pretty awesome. . . not as awesome as re-signing malik, though. . .


I'll take your word for it. Re-signing Jackson would be awesome.

[TXBRONC]

I guess that's the way I've been seeing the comments too. The "don't let the door hit you on the way out" kind of attitude. It sounds like butthurt because the guy would take 15 million a year somewhere else instead of 10 million a year here. I think he's been undervalued around here for a very long time.

The team is better without him but if he's not the defense isn't going to fall apart.

[Davii]

But those astute observations are being called bad mouthing him. No one has done that.

Please stop badmouthing Dan. Post reported.

[NightTerror218]

I guess that's the way I've been seeing the comments too. The "don't let the door hit you on the way out" kind of attitude. It sounds like butthurt because the guy would take 15 million a year somewhere else instead of 10 million a year here. I think he's been undervalued around here for a very long time.

You do realize $15 M is what JJ Watt makes next season right. Along with repeat pro bowlers and all pros. You can get FA decent starter, keep travathan, bruton, marshall, Bolden all for that price.

[Joel]

You do realize $15 M is what JJ Watt makes next season right. Along with repeat pro bowlers and all pros. You can get FA decent starter, keep travathan, bruton, marshall, Bolden all for that price.
That's where I am: Worried about the MANY OTHER critical players we'd lose by deciding >$10M/yr for Jackson is "affordable." Fourth best pass rusher, third or fourth best run stopper, and we're talking about making him the NFLs HIGHEST PAID at his position, and our HIGHEST PAID defender. That makes zero sense.

[Davii]

That's where I am: Worried about the MANY OTHER critical players we'd lose by deciding >$10M/yr for Jackson is "affordable." Fourth best pass rusher, third or fourth best run stopper, and we're talking about making him the NFLs HIGHEST PAID at his position, and our HIGHEST PAID defender. That makes zero sense.

Uhhh, he will NOT be our highest paid defender... Von will be.

[Ravage!!!]

That's where I am: Worried about the MANY OTHER critical players we'd lose by deciding >$10M/yr for Jackson is "affordable." Fourth best pass rusher, third or fourth best run stopper, and we're talking about making him the NFLs HIGHEST PAID at his position, and our HIGHEST PAID defender. That makes zero sense.

I don't think anyone is saying this.

[Joel]

Uhhh, he will NOT be our highest paid defender... Von will be.
"Will" is a big word: If we paid Jackson $15M/yr it'd be hard to see how we could afford a contract for Von, so he'd be franchised all year at about $1M less:

Jackson would be best paid defender. Even if we somehow found a way to pay Von his worth, Jackson'd still be our SECOND best paid defender, getting $5M more in 2016 than DeMarcus Ware, Derek Wolfe, Aqib Talib and Chris Harris Jr. More likely we'd be forced to keep the SB MVP tagged, earning $1M less than Malik Jackson.

That make sense to anyone? Let the man have his big payday—but NOT at DENVERS expense.

[Davii]

"Will" is a big word: If we paid Jackson $15M/yr it'd be hard to see how we could afford a contract for Von, so he'd be franchised all year at about $1M less:

Jackson would be best paid defender. Even if we somehow found a way to pay Von his worth, Jackson'd still be our SECOND best paid defender, getting $5M more in 2016 than DeMarcus Ware, Derek Wolfe, Aqib Talib and Chris Harris Jr. More likely we'd be forced to keep the SB MVP tagged, earning $1M less than Malik Jackson.

That make sense to anyone? Let the man have his big payday—but NOT at DENVERS expense.

I think 99% of the people in this thread have said don't sign him for more than 10 or 11 per year.

[Joel]

I think 99% of the people in this thread have said don't sign him for more than 10 or 11 per year.
$11M/yr would put him ahead of everyone but Wolfe; $10M, ahead of everyone but Wolfe and Ware. And tweets reposted here claim Elways negotiating with Ware to restructure for even LESS: Is Jackson worth more than Wolfe, Ware and every defender BUT Von? I don't see how; what happens if Jackson's not there to fall on that SB fumble in the end zone? Answer: Ware falls on it instead, since he was only about ¼ second behind Jackson.

[Davii]

$11M/yr would put him ahead of everyone but Wolfe; $10M, ahead of everyone but Wolfe and Ware. And tweets reposted here claim Elways negotiating with Ware to restructure for even LESS: Is Jackson worth more than Wolfe, Ware and every defender BUT Von? I don't see how; what happens if Jackson's not there to fall on that SB fumble in the end zone? Answer: Ware falls on it instead, since he was only about ¼ second behind Jackson.

Jesus dude..... never ******* mind, I've got better ways of wasting my life

[Joel]

Jesus dude..... never ******* mind, I've got better ways of wasting my life
What do you want, man? Even at $10-11M cited Jackson would STILL be our highest paid defender unless/until we re-sign Von, which would then be far less likely. Either way our second best DE=our highest paid defender; the only difference would be whether it's by a lot or a little. Meanwhile, many other people we need far more become "unaffordable" at $2-5M/yr because we decided Jackson was "affordable" at $10-15M/yr. That makes no sense for a good but not great player.

[NightTerror218]

I would take ware over Malik for $10 million plus next season.

Pass rushers are the key to this defense.

[Dapper Dan]

You do realize $15 M is what JJ Watt makes next season right. Along with repeat pro bowlers and all pros. You can get FA decent starter, keep travathan, bruton, marshall, Bolden all for that price.

It's not as simple as you're trying to make it. JJ Watt signed that deal 2 years ago and half of his money is guaranteed. It's also an EIGHT year deal. Do you think Denver is trying to sign Malik to an eight year deal worth over 100 million?

[Dapper Dan]

I would take ware over Malik for $10 million plus next season.

Pass rushers are the key to this defense.

Id rather wrap up our young guys than keep a guy worth half a season.

[DenBronx]

I like Malik but I don't get breaking the bank for him. We have a stacked defense and he's just a luxury. I am at the point if he stays that's great but not at the cost of losing 3-4 players just to keep him. And if he goes then oh well...cya! Not going to cry over that one.

And I am in the camp that would rather keep Ware. He is our captain on defense and has really brought out the best in this defense. He is also likely to restructure his deal as well as Clady.

[dogfish]

Do you think Denver is trying to sign Malik to an eight year deal worth over 100 million?

Yes.

[DenBronx]

Do you think Denver is trying to sign Malik to an eight year deal worth over 100 million?

Yes.


That would be cap suicide. Not money well spent.

Just my opinion though and to each his own I guess but I don't like that.

[dogfish]

That would be cap suicide. Not money well spent.

Just my opinion though and to each his own I guess but I don't like that.

malik has super soulful eyes, and elway is a sucker for that. . . ten years one-ninety, all guaranteed. . . i heard it straight from my guy hawgdriver. . .


:defense:

[Dapper Dan]

I like Malik but I don't get breaking the bank for him. We have a stacked defense and he's just a luxury. I am at the point if he stays that's great but not at the cost of losing 3-4 players just to keep him. And if he goes then oh well...cya! Not going to cry over that one.

And I am in the camp that would rather keep Ware. He is our captain on defense and has really brought out the best in this defense. He is also likely to restructure his deal as well as Clady.

Who are the 3 to 4? I think we only lose Trevathan and/or Marshall.

If we can keep a stacked DL along with quality edge fishers and great DBs then I'd be thrilled. If trevathan and Marshall want a few million extra to go play for the Titans then cya. ILBs are easier to come by. Don't let the door hit you while you're going to **** yourself in the ass and "feed your family" with that extra couple million. Did I do it right?

[Dapper Dan]

malik has super soulful eyes, and elway is a sucker for that. . . ten years one-ninety, all guaranteed. . . i heard it straight from my guy hawgdriver. . .


:defense:

Hawgdriver is truth. Use your shift button to capitalize His name the next time you type it. I won't have this blasphemy on my forum.

[dogfish]

Who are the 3 to 4?

more importantly, who is number two? who does number two work for??!



I think we only lose Trevathan and/or Marshall.

half right. . . sadly, JFE just said that danny will probably "test the market". . .

brandon is an RFA, though, so we get to keep him cheap on a one-year tender, or at least get to match an offer-- with compensation if he leaves. . . AKA, he's gonna be here. . .


If we can keep a stacked DL along with quality edge fishers and great DBs then I'd be thrilled. If trevathan and Marshall want a few million extra to go play for the Titans then cya. ILBs are easier to come by. Don't let the door hit you while you're going to **** yourself in the ass and "feed your family" with that extra couple million. Did I do it right?

what's an edge fisher? stop watching nature programs and focus, danny!

[Dapper Dan]

more importantly, who is number two? who does number two work for??!




half right. . . sadly, JFE just said that danny will probably "test the market". . .

brandon is an RFA, though, so we get to keep him cheap on a one-year tender, or at least get to match an offer-- with compensation if he leaves. . . AKA, he's gonna be here. . .



what's an edge fisher? stop watching nature programs and focus, danny!

You know what the hell edge fishers are! They go after the quarterback like a fish goes after bait.

[artie_dale]

I must say, the fact that Malik & Co. are still talking with Elway makes me feel pretty confident. I already trust Elway to make good decisions. Them still being in negotiations tells me that Malik really wants to stay. Good stuff.

[GEM]

It sounds now like Malik deal will get done and Trevathan gone. Who takes his place? LB depth isn't a strong point.

[artie_dale]

It sounds now like Malik deal will get done and Trevathan gone. Who takes his place? LB depth isn't a strong point.

Both Marshall & Trevathan will test the market, right?

I loved what Shaq Barrett brought. He reminded me a little of what Brandon Marshall was when he came off the practice squad (a LITTLE!). I think he might provide help in the middle. He might be athletic enough to adapt and help out. Shane Rey will be able to help, hopefully on either side of the edge. Ware missed quite a few games this season. I hope he's willing to take a pay cut.

Or, maybe that's the philosophy Elway is approaching with. Stop the run in the middle with great run stoppers, and maybe out MLBs don't have to be as great as Danny T and B Marsh.

[Davii]

It sounds now like Malik deal will get done and Trevathan gone. Who takes his place? LB depth isn't a strong point.

I guess either Todd Davis or Corey Nelson, but I'm sure we'll pick up another young guy as well. I am not going to enjoy seeing Danny go somewhere else, but same as Malik, we'll find a way to plug that hole. I have faith in our front office that we can get the talent we need at a price we can afford. Free agency sucks.

[Ravage!!!]

Both Marshall & Trevathan will test the market, right?

I loved what Shaq Barrett brought. He reminded me a little of what Brandon Marshall was when he came off the practice squad (a LITTLE!). I think he might provide help in the middle. He might be athletic enough to adapt and help out. Shane Rey will be able to help, hopefully on either side of the edge. Ware missed quite a few games this season. I hope he's willing to take a pay cut.

Or, maybe that's the philosophy Elway is approaching with. Stop the run in the middle with great run stoppers, and maybe out MLBs don't have to be as great as Danny T and B Marsh.

OUr defense wasn't nearly as good at getting to the passer without Ware. Ware isn't simply going to take a pay cut. People don't give away their money simply because fans think they should.

[GEM]

Both Marshall & Trevathan will test the market, right?

I loved what Shaq Barrett brought. He reminded me a little of what Brandon Marshall was when he came off the practice squad (a LITTLE!). I think he might provide help in the middle. He might be athletic enough to adapt and help out. Shane Rey will be able to help, hopefully on either side of the edge. Ware missed quite a few games this season. I hope he's willing to take a pay cut.

Or, maybe that's the philosophy Elway is approaching with. Stop the run in the middle with great run stoppers, and maybe out MLBs don't have to be as great as Danny T and B Marsh.

Marshall is RFA so I don't think he is going anywhere.

[GEM]

I guess either Todd Davis or Corey Nelson, but I'm sure we'll pick up another young guy as well. I am not going to enjoy seeing Danny go somewhere else, but same as Malik, we'll find a way to plug that hole. I have faith in our front office that we can get the talent we need at a price we can afford. Free agency sucks.

From what I have heard they are really high on Todd Davis, so that makes me feel a bit better. Haven't heard much on Nelson. I don't like the thought of losing Trevathan, he's a tackling machine with a nose for the ball. :( Who'd a thunk Denver FO figures out that a badass DLine makes a defense great. Loving that it's a strong point instead of a glaring weakness now. :D

[artie_dale]

From what I have heard they are really high on Todd Davis, so that makes me feel a bit better. Haven't heard much on Nelson. I don't like the thought of losing Trevathan, he's a tackling machine with a nose for the ball. :(

The fact that Elway was high on Danny Trevathan and Brandon Marshall before any of us knew what they were capable of, I'm on board for whatever they wanna get high on. (pun intended)

[NightTerror218]

Both Marshall & Trevathan will test the market, right?

I loved what Shaq Barrett brought. He reminded me a little of what Brandon Marshall was when he came off the practice squad (a LITTLE!). I think he might provide help in the middle. He might be athletic enough to adapt and help out. Shane Rey will be able to help, hopefully on either side of the edge. Ware missed quite a few games this season. I hope he's willing to take a pay cut.

Or, maybe that's the philosophy Elway is approaching with. Stop the run in the middle with great run stoppers, and maybe out MLBs don't have to be as great as Danny T and B Marsh.

I doubt any RFA or ERFA go anywhere. Elway has yet to a dress them and he will put tenders on them.

[NightTerror218]

From what I have heard they are really high on Todd Davis, so that makes me feel a bit better. Haven't heard much on Nelson. I don't like the thought of losing Trevathan, he's a tackling machine with a nose for the ball. :( Who'd a thunk Denver FO figures out that a badass DLine makes a defense great. Loving that it's a strong point instead of a glaring weakness now. :D

Todd davis is an RFA.

[dogfish]

It sounds now like Malik deal will get done and Trevathan gone. Who takes his place? LB depth isn't a strong point.

do you remember what wade said in camp last year? he said this was the best, deepest group of ILBs he's ever coached. . . given that they were all a bunch of undrafted nobodies, i thought that was just coach-speak. . . turns out that he was totally right. . . we lost stephen johnson from that group, but we still have todd davis, corey nelson and zaire anderson-- and we'll almost certainly draft another with all the extra picks we're going to have. . . they'll figure it out. . .

[TXBRONC]

Both Marshall & Trevathan will test the market, right?

I loved what Shaq Barrett brought. He reminded me a little of what Brandon Marshall was when he came off the practice squad (a LITTLE!). I think he might provide help in the middle. He might be athletic enough to adapt and help out. Shane Rey will be able to help, hopefully on either side of the edge. Ware missed quite a few games this season. I hope he's willing to take a pay cut.

Or, maybe that's the philosophy Elway is approaching with. Stop the run in the middle with great run stoppers, and maybe out MLBs don't have to be as great as Danny T and B Marsh.

There would be no need to move Barrett to the inside. Nelson and Davis are both very capable of starting on the inside.

[TXBRONC]

From what I have heard they are really high on Todd Davis, so that makes me feel a bit better. Haven't heard much on Nelson. I don't like the thought of losing Trevathan, he's a tackling machine with a nose for the ball. :( Who'd a thunk Denver FO figures out that a badass DLine makes a defense great. Loving that it's a strong point instead of a glaring weakness now. :D

Nelson got a lot of playing time this last season.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I would hate to see Barrett moved inside. He's a terror on the edge.

[TXBRONC]

I would hate to see Barrett moved inside. He's a terror on the edge.

There is no need to do so.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

There is no need to do so.

I agree, and you can never have too many pass rushers.

[Joel]

I like Malik but I don't get breaking the bank for him. We have a stacked defense and he's just a luxury. I am at the point if he stays that's great but not at the cost of losing 3-4 players just to keep him. And if he goes then oh well...cya! Not going to cry over that one.

And I am in the camp that would rather keep Ware. He is our captain on defense and has really brought out the best in this defense. He is also likely to restructure his deal as well as Clady.
Nothing to add, so: Everyone read every word of that, because it's DEAD ON.

[ShaneFalco]

would rather they keep danny then keep brock

[TXBRONC]

would rather they keep danny then keep brock

That would be foolish.

[Joel]

Who are the 3 to 4? I think we only lose Trevathan and/or Marshall.
CJ, McManus and Paradis come to mind, plus Fowler and Norwood if you like them. If you mean on D, Marshall and Trevathan, but also Bruton and Bolden


If we can keep a stacked DL along with quality edge fishers and great DBs then I'd be thrilled. If trevathan and Marshall want a few million extra to go play for the Titans then cya. ILBs are easier to come by. Don't let the door hit you while you're going to **** yourself in the ass and "feed your family" with that extra couple million. Did I do it right?
Our defensive line's plenty stacked with or WITHOUT Jackson: We've still got a stud DE in Wolfe, a stud NT in Sly and a starting quality guy in Walker who can and has played EITHER position on a SB Champion team. On top of that, we've also got Kilgo to back Sly and can probably cheaply sign another quality DE in Antonio Smith FAR more cheaply than Jackson. As one of MANY good players, and not our BEST, at a lower priority position, Jackson is exactly what I and others said:

An unaffordable luxury.


more importantly, who is number two? who does number two work for??!Questions are a burden to others; answers are a prison for oneself. Anyway, it doesn't matter: All sides are becoming the same. Be seeing you. :look:


It sounds now like Malik deal will get done and Trevathan gone. Who takes his place? LB depth isn't a strong point.
And DE depth is; go fig.


Marshall is RFA so I don't think he is going anywhere.
I thought so, but $15-20M/yr for Von, $10-15M/yr for Oz, $10-15M/yr for Jackson and pretty soon we're talking about a lot of money. If we've got nothing LEFT to match the sizable offers Marshall's sure to get, he'll take one of them instead. But at least we'll still have our second best pass rusher so the guy who started the first month in Wolfes spot then rotated with Sly the rest of the season's not on the field. :rolleyes:


do you remember what wade said in camp last year? he said this was the best, deepest group of ILBs he's ever coached. . . given that they were all a bunch of undrafted nobodies, i thought that was just coach-speak. . . turns out that he was totally right. . . we lost stephen johnson from that group, but we still have todd davis, corey nelson and zaire anderson-- and we'll almost certainly draft another with all the extra picks we're going to have. . . they'll figure it out. . .
Todd Davis is 6'1" 230, Corey Nelson is 6'1" 227 and Zaire Anderson is 5'11" 220: Those are SAFETIES, not LB (not even 3-4 ILBs.) Some places they aren't even safeties; Kam Chancellor's bigger than all three. When your ILB's the smallest gut on the field, you have a problem, even if he's primarily a coverage LB.

So if understand this correctly, we're going to pay all our defensive linemen and OLBs $15M/yr, then make the dime our base D: Repeat Championship here we come.

[Cugel]

Joel, there is simply no way that Brandon Marshall is going anywhere as a RFA.


Restricted free agent tenders are due right before the start of the new league year on March 10 so I thought it might be a good idea to track the list of the players we have thus far as receiving tenders. For those unfamiliar with restricted free agency, RFA is for players that have just three accrued seasons in the NFL. They are free to sign with any team in the NFL, but their former team has the right to tender them a one year contract offer at a price determined by the NFL. If the player is tendered and signs a new contract with another team, the player’s original team can either match the offer or possibly receive draft compensation (draft compensation depends on the amount of the tender).

$3,352,000 First Round Tender

$2,356,000 Second Round Tender

That was the 2015 tender amounts, but this years figures are not going to be vastly greater. Marshall should get a 2nd round tender, which would be $3 M or less on a 1 year contract. That's easily doable.

And no team is going to offer the Broncos a 2nd round pick for Marshall. I think if they did the Broncos would say "thank you very much!" and take it. They could really use another early round pick, and Corey Nelson and Todd Davis can both play. But, second round is rather a lot to pay when there are other players they could pick up in FA and keep their 2nd round draft pick, so I'd be shocked if some team really signed Marshall.

[Cugel]

I thought so, but $15-20M/yr for Von, $10-15M/yr for Oz, $10-15M/yr for Jackson and pretty soon we're talking about a lot of money. If we've got nothing LEFT to match the sizable offers Marshall's sure to get, he'll take one of them instead. But at least we'll still have our second best pass rusher so the guy who started the first month in Wolfes spot then rotated with Sly the rest of the season's not on the field.

It's not so bad. Subtract Peyton's $19 M contract (minus the $2 M non-option renewal severance).

Subtract the $4M for Vernon Davis who is gone baby gone.

Subtract $5M or so from Ryan Clady's $10M contract.

Subtract $4M from Evan Mathis (who will be 35 this year) and will be retiring.

Right there that's $30M in cap savings.

They need an extra $10M for Von Miller (going from $10M to $20M), an extra $10-11M for Malik Jackson, and an extra $11M for Brock Osweiler. That's about $32M.

So, without even juggling much they will be very close. I think Elway plans to re-sign everybody but the players I've mentioned and Danny Trevathan.

Where things could get dicey would be if they had to give a $15M contract to Brock Osweiler. But, I don't think that's going to happen. His value seems to be slotted in around $11-12M a year with some incentives that could take him to around $19 if he proved he is an elite QB.

It only takes 1 team to go crazy and that could still happen. But, think about it. Are the Rams really going to go nuts for an unproven Brock Osweiler, just one year after shelling out big money for Nick Foles?

Wouldn't it be much better for them to keep Nick Foles and grit their teeth for a year, and draft their QB of the future?

[TXBRONC]

It's not so bad. Subtract Peyton's $19 M contract (minus the $2 M non-option renewal severance).

Subtract the $4M for Vernon Davis who is gone baby gone.

Subtract $5M or so from Ryan Clady's $10M contract.

Subtract $4M from Evan Mathis (who will be 35 this year) and will be retiring.

Right there that's $30M in cap savings.

They need an extra $10M for Von Miller (going from $10M to $20M), an extra $10-11M for Malik Jackson, and an extra $11M for Brock Osweiler. That's about $32M.

So, without even juggling much they will be very close. I think Elway plans to re-sign everybody but the players I've mentioned and Danny Trevathan.

Where things could get dicey would be if they had to give a $15M contract to Brock Osweiler. But, I don't think that's going to happen. His value seems to be slotted in around $11-12M a year with some incentives that could take him to around $19 if he proved he is an elite QB.

It only takes 1 team to go crazy and that could still happen. But, think about it. Are the Rams really going to go nuts for an unproven Brock Osweiler, just one year after shelling out big money for Nick Foles?

Wouldn't it be much better for them to keep Nick Foles and grit their teeth for a year, and draft their QB of the future?

From what has been said Jackson is looking for somewhere in the neighbourhood of $12 million and the same with Osweiler. There is no sense even mentioning the Rams because there is no way they are in the market for a quarterback. The Browns are but their always in the market and they will probably draft one.

[ShaneFalco]

That would be foolish.

really? Keeping the best D in the league together is foolish?

[NightTerror218]

Marshall, travathan and Todd davis are all FA. Marshall RFA and Davis ERFA.

[TXBRONC]

really? Keeping the best D in the league together is foolish?

Not having a good quarterback will be more of a detriment than losing one starting linebacker. So yes it would be foolish.

[Joel]

Joel, there is simply no way that Brandon Marshall is going anywhere as a RFA.

That was the 2015 tender amounts, but this years figures are not going to be vastly greater. Marshall should get a 2nd round tender, which would be $3 M or less on a 1 year contract. That's easily doable.

And no team is going to offer the Broncos a 2nd round pick for Marshall. I think if they did the Broncos would say "thank you very much!" and take it. They could really use another early round pick, and Corey Nelson and Todd Davis can both play. But, second round is rather a lot to pay when there are other players they could pick up in FA and keep their 2nd round draft pick, so I'd be shocked if some team really signed Marshall.
Again: If a 31-year-old All Pro's worth TWO 1sts, a 26-year-old Pro Bowler's worth ONE 2nd. Even if they're not, 2nd round tendering BOTH is probably >$6M.


It's not so bad. Subtract Peyton's $19 M contract (minus the $2 M non-option renewal severance).

Subtract the $4M for Vernon Davis who is gone baby gone.

Subtract $5M or so from Ryan Clady's $10M contract.

Subtract $4M from Evan Mathis (who will be 35 this year) and will be retiring.

Right there that's $30M in cap savings.
You keep doing this, man, despite multiple people correcting it:

"CUTTING" EVAN MATHIS AND VERNON DAVIS DOESN'T SAVE US A DIME OF 2016 CAP SPACE, BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT UNDER CONTRACT IN 2016.

I mean, Hell, if we're saving cap space by cutting guys who aren't on the team in the first place, let's cut Brees and Suh and REALLY "create" cap space. :tongue:

Subtract $17M for Manning and HOPE Clady's willing to restructure to half his salary (though I suspect we meet in the middle:) That's $22M, of which Von gets 90%.


They need an extra $10M for Von Miller (going from $10M to $20M), an extra $10-11M for Malik Jackson, and an extra $11M for Brock Osweiler. That's about $32M.
No, because Vons current 2016 cap hit is $0, not $10M: So that's $42M; cutting Manning and restructuring Clady to half his salary cut THAT cost by a little over half, but we must still come up with $20M more or let Jackson or Oz walk. Plus $6M to 2nd round tender CJ and Marshall. And another $2M to tender our ERFAs. Plus the cost of our rookies. Please tell me how we find $30M or more in cap space ON TOP of the $22 saved by cutting Manning and restructuring Clady to half-pay.


So, without even juggling much they will be very close. I think Elway plans to re-sign everybody but the players I've mentioned and Danny Trevathan.
Well, yeah, if we could give Von Miller $10M this year before it counted against our cap, then save nearly as much more by "cutting" two players not under contract in the first place, that would make sense: That comes up with the $40-50M I said it would take. However, counting $18M of NONEXISTENT "savings" is no option. Goodell may be a moron, but at least half the NFL owners aren't drooling idiots who'd let us get away with that.

[LTC Pain]

Sam Robinson of Pro Football Rumors says the Broncos have upped their offer to Malik Jackson to $12M a year. Don't know this guy and just caught this story linked to Bleacher Report.

http://www.profootballrumors.com/latest-on-malik-jackson/

[Joel]

Sam Robinson of Pro Football Rumors says the Broncos have upped their offer to Malik Jackson to $12M a year. Don't know this guy and just caught this story linked to Bleacher Report.

http://www.profootballrumors.com/latest-on-malik-jackson/
Every time I hear we've raised the offer I get scared he may actually take it. Our SECOND BEST player at a COMPLEMENTARY POSITION'S not worth an 8-figure annual salary anyway, but ESPECIALLY not when we're trying to:

1) Re-sign the SB MVP,
2) Re-sign our starting QB and
3) Re-sign or replace 29 MORE players by this time next year.

Whoever your favorite Bronco is, odds are he won't be on the team next year; paying Jackson 10, 12 or (heaven forbid) $15M/yr only raises those odds.

So an above average 3-4 DE's not only worth more than a much BETTER 3-4 DE, he's worth more than our starting QB; next he'll be worth more than the SB MVP. :rolleyes:

[Rick]

"CUTTING" EVAN MATHIS AND VERNON DAVIS DOESN'T SAVE US A DIME OF 2016 CAP SPACE, BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT UNDER CONTRACT IN 2016.

I think peoples point who are saying we will save isn't so much that we will save by cutting them but rather that we are not paying them this year.

We WERE paying them last year so money allocated to last seasons cap will technically be freed up this year because you are no longer paying them, whether they are no longer under contract or were cut is irrelevant, the point is that cap number for those players is gone.

[Joel]

"CUTTING" EVAN MATHIS AND VERNON DAVIS DOESN'T SAVE US A DIME OF 2016 CAP SPACE, BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT UNDER CONTRACT IN 2016.

I think peoples point who are saying we will save isn't so much that we will save by cutting them but rather that we are not paying them this year.

We WERE paying them last year so money allocated to last seasons cap will technically be freed up this year because you are no longer paying them, whether they are no longer under contract or were cut is irrelevant, the point is that cap number for those players is gone.
Except we're not rolling over any of last years cap, because there's <$¼M TO roll over: Barely HALF the rookie minimum. They still get every penny owed for 2015, so there's nothing freed up there anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if we kept Davis simply because he's still 1) blazing fast, 2) a brutal blocker and 3) probably available for the vet minimum. In terms of making our 2016 cap though, releasing them's wholly useless. It CERTAINLY doesn't create $8M of cap space; if only.

Every time I do the math it comes out the same: We can't afford $40-50M for Von, Oz and Jackson, and it should be obvious who's the odd man out there. Magical accounting to cushion this years blow by ballooning 2017s just makes things worse, not better: OVER HALF THE TEAM will be FAs in 2017, so committing roughly a THIRD of our 2017 cap to THREE PLAYERS is a recipe for disaster. Unless we're playing ironman (or six-man) that's not a viable option.

[Rick]

I actually wouldn't mind giving Davis another shot, let him battle in training camp/pre season.

Lower $$ of course, maybe incentives.

[chazoe60]

That's why we're fans.

The minute he puts on another teams uniform, he and anyone else, is dead to me.

I'm a fan of the Broncos. Not the players.

So the year Atwater played for the Jets he was dead to you?

[Northman]

So the year Atwater played for the Jets he was dead to you?

I can see Joe's logic. While i sometimes will pull for a player to do well outside of Denver (Decker) they are somewhat dead to me in terms of any kind of allegiance i might have had to them as a Bronco. Atwater is one of my top 3 Bronco players of alltime but after he went to the Jets i didnt think much about him until he signed a one day contract to retire. I think it boils down to how said fan feels about said player. I still like Dumervil but there are quite a few fans on this site that dont care for him and probably consider him dead to them.

[BroncoJoe]

So the year Atwater played for the Jets he was dead to you?

Quite a different scenario, but I did not "root" for Atwater that year. Same with Shannon Sharpe when he went to the Ravens. I didn't care about them.

[Joel]

I actually wouldn't mind giving Davis another shot, let him battle in training camp/pre season.

Lower $$ of course, maybe incentives.
Sounds about right. We traded next to nothing for him and got even less, so his market value's negligible now—but he's not that old, has tons of starting experience, still has plenty of speed and is a great blocker. He could be a useful transition player between Daniels retiring and Green/Heuerman emerging as legit all around TEs (assuming they ever do.) And he wouldn't cost much since his leverage is nil; he might be satisfied by an incentive deal WE'D be grateful if he "satisfied."

[Edmonton Bronco Fan]

Seeing as we've now upped our offer to 12M a year... can't see Elway going much higher. If Malik wants to remain here on a team that could be a perennial Super Bowl contender, he'll sacrifice a few dollars. If not, then whatever... he obviously places way more value on a little bit more cash than anything else.

[DenBronx]

I just don't think Malik is worth more than 11 mill, especially with a deep DL draft class. Keep Brock, Von, Brandon and CJ. Most likely we lose Danny T as well.

Maybe Shane Ray or Shaq Barrett can transition to ILB if we lose Danny T.

[artie_dale]

I just don't think Malik is worth more than 11 mill, especially with a deep DL draft class. Keep Brock, Von, Brandon and CJ. Most likely we lose Danny T as well.

Maybe Shane Ray or Shaq Barrett can transition to ILB if we lose Danny T.

I'm confident Shaq Barrett could transition to ILB. He might be our next Brandon Marshall, me thinks.

[artie_dale]

Seeing as we've now upped our offer to 12M a year... can't see Elway going much higher. If Malik wants to remain here on a team that could be a perennial Super Bowl contender, he'll sacrifice a few dollars. If not, then whatever... he obviously places way more value on a little bit more cash than anything else.

Just like the Derek Wolfe deal, it's gotta be in the guaranteed $M, not the size of the salary.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I'm confident Shaq Barrett could transition to ILB. He might be our next Brandon Marshall, me thinks.

That's a bit of a stretch to think he could cover TE's and RB's.

[Davii]

Last I read the Broncos offer was under 11 and Malik was looking for 14. If that's true he's most likely gone.

[Joel]

I just don't think Malik is worth more than 11 mill, especially with a deep DL draft class. Keep Brock, Von, Brandon and CJ. Most likely we lose Danny T as well.

Maybe Shane Ray or Shaq Barrett can transition to ILB if we lose Danny T.
Was with you till the last part, but coverage LBs (especially in a 3-4) just aren't as valuable as pass rushers. That's why the LB franchise tag's significantly lower than the DE tag: Too many ILBs bringing down the average. Especially in a 3-4 (again,) it's easier to find glorified safeties to cover secondary and tertiary receivers over the middle in short zone than find pass rushers capable of double digit sacks annually. If we were searching for a 4-3 Mike, sure, but not a 3-4 ILB.


Last I read the Broncos offer was under 11 and Malik was looking for 14. If that's true he's most likely gone.
Sure hope so: We avoid $11M/yr in cap space for an optional player, and the competition loses $14M+/yr for a guy barely worth half that.

A poor mans Trevor Pryce only rich men can afford.

[Cugel]

Once again Joel, if you want to see how Von Miller's contract will get structured so that they can get him under contract and keep Malik Jackson, and Brock Osweiler take a look at Justin Houston's contract with the Chiefs:

Houston signed a 6 year, $101M including a $20.5M signing bonus and $52M guaranteed.

His cap hit for 2015 was $5,100,000.

Pro-rated signing bonus: $4.1 M
2015 Salary: $1 M.
Total cap hit: $5.1M

So, Houston gets $21.1 M in cash in 2015, but it only counts as $5.1M against the cap.

Von's cap figure will be higher than this, but probably not more than $10M a year in 2015.

In 2016 the Chiefs cap figure for Houston looks like this:

Pro-rated signing bonus including roster bonus: $14.9M.
2016 Salary: $4.1 M
Workout bonus: $100,000
Total cap hit: $19.1 M

So, Houston gets $25M in 2015 and $19.1 M in 2016.

That is the only way the Broncos are going to be able to sign Von Miller and keep Malik and Osweiler.

You may not like this because it promises problems with the cap in 2017, but they will take those problems any day. First the cap will go up again in 2017 so they'll have more $. Second there will be other players who might come off the roster like DeMarcus Ware, whose cap hit for 2016 is $11.6 M unless he re-negotiates. But, if he re-negotiates they are going to have dead cap space for him because he's likely to retire at the end of this season.

Unless Ryan Clady dramatically improves his performance this season, he won't be on the roster next year either, and they will either sign a veteran, or more preferably draft his replacement this year.

As for what Brandon Marshall will get as a restricted FA, I've already shown what that will be:

$3,352,000 First Round Tender

$2,356,000 Second Round Tender

That was for 2015, but the 2016 figures are NOT going to be "$6M" a year!

Nor does your argument that if Joe Thomas is worth 2 #1 draft picks, Brandon Marshall is worth a #2. Wrong.

Joe Thomas is a Hall of Fame LT, the best in football. He hasn't missed a game in his NFL career. He's probably the best T to enter football in the last 10-15 years.

Brandon Marshall is a nice player. He's a talented ILB, but he's not remotely the best ILB in the NFL let alone a Hall of Fame player. There's no comparison.

I repeat, if some team wants to sign Brandon Marshall big $ and give the Broncos a 2nd round draft pick, they will probably say "thank you!" They could really use some middle of round first or second round picks, and they still have Corey Nelson and Todd Davis. They might even be able to re-sign Danny Trevathan if they weren't going to keep Marshall.

I don't think for one minute they are worried about the prospect of losing Brandon Marshall to some other team. It won't happen. Danny Trevathan is probably gone. But, Marshall is staying.

[GEM]

On the radio they are saying we are probably losing Malik, Danny and David Bruton, Jr. :mad: Mothertrucker!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dogfish]

On the radio they are saying we are probably losing Malik, Danny and David Bruton, Jr. :mad: Mothertrucker!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i don't see why we would. . . unless we can't get any cap relief from guys like clady and ware, and JFE won't cut them. . . will be disappointing if it actually does go down like that. . . sounds a little xtreme to me, though-- who said it?

[GEM]

i don't see why we would. . . unless we can't get any cap relief from guys like clady and ware, and JFE won't cut them. . . will be disappointing if it actually does go down like that. . . sounds a little xtreme to me, though-- who said it?

Ryan & Shawn, Fan Football Hour.

That would seriously piss me off to lose all of them. Somehow we go from doing whatever we can to meet Malik's number to now losing all 3. I just punched my desk. :laugh:

[dogfish]

Ryan & Shawn, Fan Football Hour.

That would seriously piss me off to lose all of them. Somehow we go from doing whatever we can to meet Malik's number to now losing all 3. I just punched my desk. :laugh:

alright, settle down, beavis. . . :laugh:

i'd suggest waiting until it actually happens to unleash any more violence. . . you'd feel pretty dumb with a broken hand if we turn around and sign two of the three. . . i wouldn't break anything over anyone from 104.3's opinion. . . right now, JFE's the only one who truly knows the score. . .

[Timmy!]

On the radio they are saying we are probably losing Malik, Danny and David Bruton, Jr. :mad: Mothertrucker!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sucks, but I expected this from the start. Those 3 are going to all get over paid.

[BroncoJoe]

Whether they all sign or not, in JFE we ( I ) trust.

[TXBRONC]

That's a bit of a stretch to think he could cover TE's and RB's.

Barrett was used in coverage.

[Joel]

Once again Joel, if you want to see how Von Miller's contract will get structured so that they can get him under contract and keep Malik Jackson, and Brock Osweiler take a look at Justin Houston's contract with the Chiefs:

Houston signed a 6 year, $101M including a $20.5M signing bonus and $52M guaranteed.

His cap hit for 2015 was $5,100,000.

Pro-rated signing bonus: $4.1 M
2015 Salary: $1 M.
Total cap hit: $5.1M

So, Houston gets $21.1 M in cash in 2015, but it only counts as $5.1M against the cap.

Von's cap figure will be higher than this, but probably not more than $10M a year in 2015.

In 2016 the Chiefs cap figure for Houston looks like this:

Pro-rated signing bonus including roster bonus: $14.9M.
2016 Salary: $4.1 M
Workout bonus: $100,000
Total cap hit: $19.1 M

So, Houston gets $25M in 2015 and $19.1 M in 2016.

That is the only way the Broncos are going to be able to sign Von Miller and keep Malik and Osweiler.

You may not like this because it promises problems with the cap in 2017, but they will take those problems any day. First the cap will go up again in 2017 so they'll have more $. Second there will be other players who might come off the roster like DeMarcus Ware, whose cap hit for 2016 is $11.6 M unless he re-negotiates. But, if he re-negotiates they are going to have dead cap space for him because he's likely to retire at the end of this season.
You're right: I intensely dislike that, because we'd lose MOST of >30 Broncos whose contracts end by this time next year. Dodging a $40-50M hit three guys this year is cold comfort if it means a $50-60M hit NEXT year:

We can't sink a THIRD of our cap into THREE guys while re-signing/replacing OVER HALF THE TEAM! That includes BIG names:



DeMarcus Ware (http://www.spotrac.com/redirect/player/2457/)
OLB
$10,000,000
$20,000,000
2017


Louis Vasquez (http://www.spotrac.com/redirect/player/8251/)
G
$5,875,000
$10,000,000
2017


Emmanuel Sanders (http://www.spotrac.com/redirect/player/6590/)
WR
$5,000,000
$6,000,000
2017


Britton Colquitt (http://www.spotrac.com/redirect/player/7608/)
P
$3,892,333
$4,250,000
2017


Sylvester Williams (http://www.spotrac.com/redirect/player/12308/)
DT
$1,895,438
$6,142,875
2017


Darian Stewart (http://www.spotrac.com/redirect/player/8306/)
FS
$2,125,000
$2,250,000
2017


Vance Walker (http://www.spotrac.com/redirect/player/5465/)
DE
$2,000,000
$1,500,000
2017


Kayvon Webster (http://www.spotrac.com/redirect/player/12371/)
CB
$686,450
$539,800
2017


Shaquil Barrett (http://www.spotrac.com/redirect/player/14689/)
OLB
$511,167
$3,500
2017


Juwan Thompson (http://www.spotrac.com/redirect/player/14869/)
RB
$511,167
$3,500
2017


Kenny Anunike (http://www.spotrac.com/redirect/player/14858/)
DE
$510,833
$2,500
2017


Kapri Bibbs (http://www.spotrac.com/redirect/player/14859/)
RB
$525,000
-
2017


Jordan Taylor (http://www.spotrac.com/redirect/player/16995/)
WR
$450,000
-
2017


Zaire Anderson (http://www.spotrac.com/redirect/player/17104/)
OLB
$450,000
-
2017



That's not all of them, only the ones who've come up on these forums; again, we only have 21 players under contract past 2017. Also bear in mind that tendering CJ, Marshall, Paradis, McManus, Fowler and Davis isn't a long term solution: It just buys a years grace before we must re-sign or release them along with everyone ELSE whose contracts end in 2017. Sly may be a club option, but the rest aren't, and "we can just slap a $2-3M tender on half a dozen guys" isn't a viable option.


Unless Ryan Clady dramatically improves his performance this season, he won't be on the roster next year either, and they will either sign a veteran, or more preferably draft his replacement this year.
Uh huh, but neither of those options (especially the second one) will be free. The kind of FA LT available for <$4-5M/yr isn't someone ANYONE wants guarding the franchise QBs blindside, let alone in that QBs first full season of starts. Remember how badly you wanted Joe Thomas, and why? ;)


As for what Brandon Marshall will get as a restricted FA, I've already shown what that will be:

$3,352,000 First Round Tender

$2,356,000 Second Round Tender

That was for 2015, but the 2016 figures are NOT going to be "$6M" a year!
The 2016 figure for doing that with Marshall AND CJ will be at least $5M, maybe closer to 6 (haven't checked.)


Nor does your argument that if Joe Thomas is worth 2 #1 draft picks, Brandon Marshall is worth a #2. Wrong.

Joe Thomas is a Hall of Fame LT, the best in football. He hasn't missed a game in his NFL career. He's probably the best T to enter football in the last 10-15 years.

Brandon Marshall is a nice player. He's a talented ILB, but he's not remotely the best ILB in the NFL let alone a Hall of Fame player. There's no comparison.
There's no comparison between a PAIR of 1st round picks and a SINGLE 2nd round pick either. No one would give up a 2nd rounder for a talented CHAMPION coverage LB in his prime? It's only his 4th season: You don't think Arizona would give us the #61 overall pick to have a GOOD starting ILB instead of the 220 lb. converted safety they used for the last half of the season and playoffs? Because they're likely to get 4-5 quality seasons out of #61?

You don't think GB would give us #57 to replace Lacey with CJ?

Bearing in mind that everyone's "resigned to not re-signing" Trevathan because WE CAN'T MATCH THE OFFERS HE'S ALREADY GETTING. We can avoid that with first round tenders, but then we're talking $7M for the pair instead of $5M: Paying TWICE that to our SECOND BEST DE still sound like a good investment?


I repeat, if some team wants to sign Brandon Marshall big $ and give the Broncos a 2nd round draft pick, they will probably say "thank you!" They could really use some middle of round first or second round picks, and they still have Corey Nelson and Todd Davis. They might even be able to re-sign Danny Trevathan if they weren't going to keep Marshall.

I don't think for one minute they are worried about the prospect of losing Brandon Marshall to some other team. It won't happen. Danny Trevathan is probably gone. But, Marshall is staying.
All because of a 2nd round pick? I wouldn't count on that. And I'm sure Nelson and Davis are swell guys, but one's 227 and the other 230; Kam Chancellor's bigger than both and actually IS a safety playing like a LB, not a LB playing like a safety.

[Joel]

Sucks, but I expected this from the start. Those 3 are going to all get over paid.
I sure as Cap Hell hope so, and that their big paydays aren't from us: Let them condemn the competition. I'll miss Danny and Bruton far more than Jackson; we've got much better depth behind him than at safety or ILB.

[ursak]

Let Malik walk and get SuperMario in?

[NightTerror218]

I am ok losing malik. We kept wolf and have sly.

I think it comes down to ware or malik. Ware is more important to this defense then malik. Defense is about the LBs and corners. Rather keep travathan and ware then malik.

[NightTerror218]

Let Malik walk and get SuperMario in?

Super Mario is a pass rusher not a disruptive DL.

[Cugel]

Joel, some points:

#1 - You can bet your ass that signing Von Miller to a cap friendly deal that limits his cap hit in 2016 is EXACTLY what they are going to do, regardless of your feelings in the matter! :beer:

#2 of the guys you mention:

DeMarcus Ware will be retired or playing elsewhere in 2017. He's got serious back issues. If he comes back this will be his last season for the Broncos.

Louis Vasquez is earning $6.5 M this season and isn't worth it. It's an open question whether they cut him this year. No way are they extending him and paying him MORE than his current salary in 2017. He's gone and they will try and draft a RG this year or next to replace him more cheaply.

They might try and do that this year.

Emannuel Sanders is going to get a lot more money. Frankly, unless D.T. performs better they might just trade him and promote Sanders to Thomas' #1 WR role and pay him.

Colquitt - Broncos are not going to be able to pay their punter more than $4M. They are going to have to go out in FA and find another punter. Tough. He's gone.

Sylvester Williams is going to get a big raise. He's the one guy on that list other than Sanders they have to keep. It will probably cost them over $6 M a year.

Vance Walker & Kayvon Webster are backups and will probably go and be replaced. Teams can pay their starters top $, but no team can keep their backups when their contracts expire, unless they intend to promote their backups into the starting role - which in these cases is not true. Goodbye.

Shaquil Barrett is another good player, however he's going to be another exclusive rights FA, which is not really a FA at all. If they want to keep him for 2017 they can tender him the ERFA tender.

I have looked this up for 2015. It is not going to double between 2015 and 2016. That's just ridiculous.

According to NFL Rules, a team wanting to keep an ERFA must tender that player the NFL minimum for a 3rd year player: (https://www.spotrac.com/blog/nfl-minimum-salaries-for-2015-and-the-veteran-cap-benefit-rule/)

Yrs. 2015 2016 2017 2018
0 $435,000 $450,000 $465,000 $480,000
1 $510,000 $525,000 $540,000 $555,000
2 $585,000 $600,000 $615,000 $630,000
3 $660,000 $675,000 $690,000 $705,000


So the Broncos only have to offer the minimum 3rd year tender for FAs. (http://football.calsci.com/FreeAgency.html)\

Exclusive-Rights Free Agents (ERFA)


An Exclusive-Rights Free Agent is an NFL player who is not under contract, but has only two years of NFL experience. If his former club makes him an offer at the three year veteran minimum salary, then that's it, he has to take it or leave the NFL. These guys have no right to negotiate with other teams. They are "free" only in the sense that they're free to quit.

[Lancane]

People need to remember that talent is only part of a great defense. Phillips has fielded great defenses with far less talent...let Jackson walk, his presence or lack thereof will do little to effect the team overall.

[DenBronx]

If we lose Malik would any of you want Pot Roast back at a discount? Or even Mario Williams at close to 9-11 mill?

http://milehighsports.com/five-free-agents-who-could-help-make-the-broncos-defensive-line-historic/

[Simple Jaded]

Mario Williams played Von's position in Phillips defense and didn't exactly like playing DE in Ryan's 3-4, if he fits Jackson's role that's an ideal possibility.

But I'm not sure he wants that role.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Mario Williams played Von's position in Phillips defense and didn't exactly like playing DE in Ryan's 3-4, if he fits Jackson's role that's an ideal possibility.

But I'm not sure he wants that role.

No, he wants to play linebacker, sort of like the way Ralph Sampson insisted he was a gaurd.

[dogfish]

williams isn't happening. . . he's old, is still going to be expensive, and isn't a particularly good fit. . . he spent most of this year being a primadonna and complaining about the fact that he wasn't rushing the passer every down-- he doesn't work with our selfless, kicking and screaming, do whatever it takes to win mentality. . .

[Cugel]

If we lose Malik would any of you want Pot Roast back at a discount? Or even Mario Williams at close to 9-11 mill?

http://milehighsports.com/five-free-agents-who-could-help-make-the-broncos-defensive-line-historic/

Pot-roast ate his way out of Denver. He isn't coming back. No way. I don't think they want an overweight guy who tires out in the 4th quarter. The opposite of their current defensive line.

[NightTerror218]

Pot-roast ate his way out of Denver. He isn't coming back. No way. I don't think they want an overweight guy who tires out in the 4th quarter. The opposite of their current defensive line.

He was the reason we went to SB 2 yrs ago. Look at the pats game.

[TXBRONC]

He was the reason we went to SB 2 yrs ago. Look at the pats game.

He did have a very good game two years ago but that was two years ago. If Denver were to bring him back then so be it but I'm not sure it would be such a good idea.

[NightTerror218]

He did have a very good game two years ago but that was two years ago. If Denver were to bring him back then so be it but I'm not sure it would be such a good idea.

I am all about cheap vets mins for depth. He chased money and we won SB, lmao

[Lancane]

I stated this in another thread, but two veterans who are young, can be had for less and have a ton of upside is Akiem Hicks and Kendall Reyes either would be a good addition to possibly replace Jackson.

[TXBRONC]

I am all about cheap vets mins for depth. He chased money and we won SB, lmao


The concern I have that I've heard Pot Roast lacks motivation at times.

[TXBRONC]

I stated this in another thread, but two veterans who are young, can be had for less and have a ton of upside is Akiem Hicks and Kendall Reyes either would be a good addition to possibly replace Jackson.

I don't about Reyes but if anyone has the ability to get the most out of him it's Philips.

[Davii]

What about Anunike?

[LTC Pain]

What about Anunike?

Has to stay healthy to see!

[NightTerror218]

What about Anunike?

I believe he will have first crack to replace jackson. There was a ton of talk about him in preseason.

[TXBRONC]

I believe he will have first crack to replace jackson. There was a ton of talk about him in preseason.

He's not as big as Jackson but he seems to be a gifted pass rusher.

[NightTerror218]

He's not as big as Jackson but he seems to be a gifted pass rusher.

He is young and will prob add weight like most young guys do. But we will see next year how he is doing.

[Slick]

People need to remember that talent is only part of a great defense. Phillips has fielded great defenses with far less talent...let Jackson walk, his presence or lack thereof will do little to effect the team overall.


Phillips is a good coordinator, I'll give you that, and the defense will still be good without Malik, but to suggest that losing him will have little to no effect is just wrong.

[Joel]

Phillips is a good coordinator, I'll give you that, and the defense will still be good without Malik, but to suggest that losing him will have little to no effect is just wrong.
How much did Wolfes month-long suspension effect our D? As I recall, it came roaring out of the gate, smashing opposing run AND pass games and scooping up turnovers left and right. Wolfe's a better player than Jackson, so if we just re-sign Antonio Smith cheaply he and Walker can do the same thing on that side that they did on the other last year. As noted in another thread, I wish I were as confident as everyone else that our depth behind Trevathan's that good.

[TXBRONC]

Phillips is a good coordinator, I'll give you that, and the defense will still be good without Malik, but to suggest that losing him will have little to no effect is just wrong.

Jackson is a great fit for this defense but Wade Philips is more than capable of finding a way to replace him.