Broncos in trouble if they cant resign Oz?

[Northman]

I dont agree that we would be in trouble if we didnt sign Oz but i do agree that i think John will get it done for both Malik and Oz.

http://www.milehighreport.com/2016/2/12/10983182/broncos-in-trouble-if-they-cant-resign-osweiler


Later on in the show, Goodman and Shapiro discussed the importance of the Denver Broncos' defense in the Super Bowl and throughout the course of the season. In their eyes, it was the play of the defense that helped catapult the Broncos to the Super Bowl victory. Alas, such a strong defensive showing all season long even pointed out a larger concern which we are all aware of, which was the inconsistency and poor play throughout the year by the Broncos offense.

According to Shapiro, he believes for the team to turn the tide offensively in 2016 the Broncos have to have a better running game, offensive line and more consistency from the tight ends. Goodman stated that he believed that the priority for the front office this off-season has to be extending Brock Osweiler's (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/154886/brock-osweiler) contract in order for the offense to have efficacy next season. This lead Goodman to formulate that Osweiler must be the priority over Malik Jackson (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/34384/malik-jackson) in free agency, and if they don't find a way to re-sign him the team is 'screwed.'



Shapiro vehemently disagreed with Goodman and believed that John Elway knows what he is doing and would have the ability to find a quarterback to lead the team via free agency or the draft if Osweiler demands a contract that is way too rich for the Broncos.

However, he believes that the team can retain both Jackson and Osweiler by making big time cuts and restructures that can give the team cap maneuverability. Goodman finished the dialogue by stating if the Broncos don't invest a long-term deal in Osweiler, Elway effectively failed in his drafting of him and had him 'rot away' for four years on the bench.

[NightTerror218]

Broncos are not doomed if they resign Oz but offense will remain sub par. No great journeyman FA options...bradford......

And draft is a crap shoot. Elway would not want to throw a rookie in right away.

[Dapper Dan]

We have no offense anyway. Might as well have a running game. Sign Tebow.

[MOtorboat]

We have no offense anyway. Might as well have a running game. Sign Tebow.

I would hate for Andrew Mason to lose his job.

[DenBronx]

Broncos are not doomed if they resign Oz but offense will remain sub par. No great journeyman FA options...bradford......

And draft is a crap shoot. Elway would not want to throw a rookie in right away.

Unless he's a top 3 QB in this years draft. I believe Goff is pro style ready.

[BroncoWave]

I would hate for Andrew Mason to lose his job.

I wouldn't.

[ShaneFalco]

we have no offense anyway. Might as well have a running game. Sign tebow.

yes!!!!

[SR]

The Broncos are doomed if Kubes can't get more aggressive on offense, regardless of who the QB is.

[Timmy!]

I'm hearing that a deal with Oz is "imminent." For a little more than some people are going to like.

[underrated29]

I'm hearing that a deal with Oz is "imminent." For a little more than some people are going to like.

I have not heard this and would very much like to know what you have heard.

Please explain in greater detail pro favor

[Timmy!]

I have not heard this and would very much like to know what you have heard.

Please explain in greater detail pro favor

Family source (Oz's family obviously, and no not immediate family, but family none the less). Oz is gonna be a Bronco for a while, and think north of 12 mil per.

[SR]

Family source (Oz's family obviously, and no not immediate family, but family none the less). Oz is gonna be a Bronco for a while, and think north of 12 mil per.

No offense NostraTimmy but I won't believe it until it's real.

[Timmy!]

No offense NostraTimmy but I won't believe it until it's real.

No hair off my nuts, and I wouldn't call this a Nostrafukintimmy prediction, since I'm not predicting it, but rather being told. So, painfully, I take no credit.

[Rick]

Too bad we couldn't sign Tyrod Taylor last year, quality competition.

[underrated29]

I knew we were going to keep him at nearly all costs. I also knew we offered him 12 per year and his camp turned down the offer but wanted to resume talks after the SB. I assumed 15m per. I wonder how close that is. I'd be fine with that.



Thanks Timmay!

[Rick]

If it turns out real then it is already 100% official, just not announced, that Manning is gone. Can't pay 2 QBs 15+.

[underrated29]

If it turns out real then it is already 100% official, just not announced, that Manning is gone. Can't pay 2 QBs 15+.



From what I heard manning knows he is going to retire but has too much respect for the team and his teammates to make the announcement while we are celebrating the championship. He does not want to deflect from that and Von snd kubiak and co.

Could be wrong but what I heard nonetheless.

[Davii]

From what I heard manning knows he is going to retire but has too much respect for the team and his teammates to make the announcement while we are celebrating the championship. He does not want to deflect from that and Von snd kubiak and co.

Could be wrong but what I heard nonetheless.

I heard nothing but this is what my gut tells me.

[Tned]

Well, I don't know any family members, but I would expect something in the 4 year (could be three, and unlikely, but possible five) range and would expect it to be $12-14 a year with about 1/3 of it guaranteed. So, let's say 4 years, $50 million with $18-20 million guaranteed. Something in the range of Nick Foles, but with more years, and percentage wise, not as much guaranteed.

Pure speculation on my part, but this is what I would be expecting. I think we could see a low of about $10 a year, but unlikely, and a high of $15 or so, but also unlikely. I think 12-14 is about right in order to keep him off the free agent market and preserve the Broncos investment in him.

[NightTerror218]

Unless he's a top 3 QB in this years draft. I believe Goff is pro style ready.

No chance to get them. Will cost too much.

[JPPT1974]

They need to. He really it is time for him to step up for real!

[7DnBrnc53]

We have no offense anyway. Might as well have a running game. Sign Tebow.

Over Elway's dead body.

[Lancane]

Not sure about what you're hearing Timmy, as far as I've heard it's only Osweiler's camp coming up with numbers, not the team itself. They're supposedly waiting for Manning's decision before getting into it.

[Joel]

Well, I don't know any family members, but I would expect something in the 4 year (could be three, and unlikely, but possible five) range and would expect it to be $12-14 a year with about 1/3 of it guaranteed. So, let's say 4 years, $50 million with $18-20 million guaranteed. Something in the range of Nick Foles, but with more years, and percentage wise, not as much guaranteed.

Pure speculation on my part, but this is what I would be expecting. I think we could see a low of about $10 a year, but unlikely, and a high of $15 or so, but also unlikely. I think 12-14 is about right in order to keep him off the free agent market and preserve the Broncos investment in him.
Well, 50/4 with 17 up front is the low end of the scuttlebutt rate, just longer. It would also mean that if Oz tanks next year cutting him in 2017 would be $12 million in dead money, so hopefully Oz is as good as Yoshi insists. Elway does seem to like 4 year contracts, but I worry they work out better for young stars than for the team. At least it avoids hold outs, and there's no denying that Elways strategy's worked so far: AFC Champs his 3rd year, NFL Champs his 5th.

I'm starting to feel we'll be OK in 2016 but in trouble in 2017; maybe that's just me worrying needlessly again though. At times like this I really don't envy Elway. We still don't technically know Mannings plans nor Cladys idea of "less money" and Von just had the best possible contract season short of breaking the sack record. Then we have a QB who's shown just enough it's impossible to predict whether he'll be good or bad. Then there's important but less visible guys like McManus and Bruton.

I'm just very grateful that 1) we have a very capable GM to deal with those issues and 2) I'm not him (but aren't we all grateful for that last part? ;))

[Ziggy]

The Broncos are doomed if Kubes can't get more aggressive on offense, regardless of who the QB is.

Kubiak's management of the offense was brilliant this season. The Broncos wouldn't have won the super bowl any other way. It was one of the best pieces of coaching I've ever seen. Though it wasn't much, he got the max output out of an offense that couldn't run or pass block for most of the season. No running game. No passing game. A QB that was highly ineffective. He got what he could out of them and allowed the defense to dictate games. Criticize Kubes all you want. He gave this team the ONLY chance they had to succeed with the tools he had.

[Northman]

Kubiak's management of the offense was brilliant this season. The Broncos wouldn't have won the super bowl any other way. It was one of the best pieces of coaching I've ever seen. Though it wasn't much, he got the max output out of an offense that couldn't run or pass block for most of the season. No running game. No passing game. A QB that was highly ineffective. He got what he could out of them and allowed the defense to dictate games. Criticize Kubes all you want. He gave this team the ONLY chance they had to succeed with the tools he had.

Part of me agrees with you but then the other part of me says "why did we struggle so much?". There is WAY too much talent on this team to have struggled so poorly as we did on the offensive side of the ball. Too many missed opportunities in games with bad blocking, poor throwing, inconsistent rushing, dropped passes, etc. I could understand the struggles if the talent wasnt there but it was baffling that this team had as many issues as they did.

[Joel]

Part of me agrees with you but then the other part of me says "why did we struggle so much?". There is WAY too much talent on this team to have struggled so poorly as we did on the offensive side of the ball. Too many missed opportunities in games with bad blocking, poor throwing, inconsistent rushing, dropped passes, etc. I could understand the struggles if the talent wasnt there but it was baffling that this team had as many issues as they did.
The talent on the line WASN'T there: That's why 60% of our 2014 starting linemen were on another team in 2015. Then Clady went on IR before the season even started, forcing the rookie drafted for RT to start at LT instead, and a month later HE was on IR. That left just ONE starting linemen from last years team, and just two who were even ON last years team (if a PS rookie counts as "on the team.") So 60% of our starters were either rookies or FAs.

That crippled an offense badly crippled before Kubiak even arrived (hence he immediately showed 3 starting linemen the door.) Stop me if you've heard this: Good passing can make up for bad running and vice versa, but bad blocking makes it impossible to run, pass or even PUNT reliably. All the "skill" position talent in the world is USELESS without "unskilled" talent giving the playmakers a CHANCE to make plays.

NE* has a first ballot HoFer in Brady, possibly another in Gronk, and Edelman and Amendola consistently punching above their weight: Why did they struggle so much most of the year? Because Belicheat can't coach? Or because their line's a disaster area? It's still not as bad ours (no matter how hard anyone tries to make the same thing an excuse for Brady but indictment of Manning) so Kubiak getting more than Belicheat despite HAVING less is a major achievement.

[TXBRONC]

Part of me agrees with you but then the other part of me says "why did we struggle so much?". There is WAY too much talent on this team to have struggled so poorly as we did on the offensive side of the ball. Too many missed opportunities in games with bad blocking, poor throwing, inconsistent rushing, dropped passes, etc. I could understand the struggles if the talent wasnt there but it was baffling that this team had as many issues as they did.

The combination of Manning's struggles and the struggles of the offensive line created most of the problems.

[SR]

Kubiak's management of the offense was brilliant this season. The Broncos wouldn't have won the super bowl any other way. It was one of the best pieces of coaching I've ever seen. Though it wasn't much, he got the max output out of an offense that couldn't run or pass block for most of the season. No running game. No passing game. A QB that was highly ineffective. He got what he could out of them and allowed the defense to dictate games. Criticize Kubes all you want. He gave this team the ONLY chance they had to succeed with the tools he had.

Agree to disagree. There were multiple games where they sat on a very skinny lead and the whole team suffered because of it. The offensive goals should not to be to get up by one score and sit on it.

[Joel]

Agree to disagree. There were multiple games where they sat on a very skinny lead and the whole team suffered because of it. The offensive goals should not to be to get up by one score and sit on it.
Way I heard it, THE goal is outscoring the other team. There's lots of ways to do that, but when your offense SUCKS because it can't block for the run NOR pass, forcing the issue when already leading is NOT how to outscore anyone. To borrow a good line, "What does it profit a team to gain a TD if it lose two?"

[NightTerror218]

Way I heard it, THE goal is outscoring the other team. There's lots of ways to do that, but when your offense SUCKS because it can't block for the run NOR pass, forcing the issue when already leading is NOT how to outscore anyone. To borrow a good line, "What does it profit a team to gain a TD if it lose two?"

Fine then let's bring in a new LT and RT next season to start that did not start 2/3 of season.

I hear Clady and Sambrailo are available to take the book ends.

[TXBRONC]

Fine then let's bring in a new LT and RT next season to start that did not start 2/3 of season.

I hear Clady and Sambrailo are available to take the book ends.

I also heard rumor that they live near Denver so the F.O. wouldn't have to pay moving expenses.


Hey Joel, for someone who sent me a MHS saying you were happy proven wrong by the team you sure have done a ton of whining about them.

[Ravage!!!]

I also heard rumor that they live near Denver so the F.O. wouldn't have to pay moving expenses.


Hey Joel, for someone who sent me a MHS saying you were happy proven wrong by the team you sure have done a ton of whining about them.

Joe is one of those guys that just doesn't enjoy being happy. He enjoys complaining. Still whining about the OL makes him feel good about himself. He's still applying for that GM job, you know.

[TXBRONC]

Joe is one of those guys that just doesn't enjoy being happy. He enjoys complaining. Still whining about the OL makes him feel good about himself. He's still applying for that GM job, you know.

I did not know that. No wonder he's so sour.

[Joel]

Fine then let's bring in a new LT and RT next season to start that did not start 2/3 of season.

I hear Clady and Sambrailo are available to take the book ends.


I also heard rumor that they live near Denver so the F.O. wouldn't have to pay moving expenses.

Hey Joel, for someone who sent me a MHS saying you were happy proven wrong by the team you sure have done a ton of whining about them.


Joe is one of those guys that just doesn't enjoy being happy. He enjoys complaining. Still whining about the OL makes him feel good about himself. He's still applying for that GM job, you know.
Excuse the Hell out of me, folks, but my post was DEFENDING the way the offense was run last year in the face of SOMEONE ELSE criticizing it.

Don't let the facts get in the way of personal animosity though.

[Cugel]

Family source (Oz's family obviously, and no not immediate family, but family none the less). Oz is gonna be a Bronco for a while, and think north of 12 mil per.

This would be no big surprise. Somewhere between $12-15 M (including incentives) would be reasonable. The Median NFL starting QB salary is close to $15 M, so 16 QBs make more than that and 15 make less. To say that Osweiler is probably average at this point, with significant upside potential is a fair assessment.


Shapiro vehemently disagreed with Goodman and believed that John Elway knows what he is doing and would have the ability to find a quarterback to lead the team via free agency or the draft if Osweiler demands a contract that is way too rich for the Broncos.

However, he believes that the team can retain both Jackson and Osweiler by making big time cuts and restructures that can give the team cap maneuverability. Goodman finished the dialogue by stating if the Broncos don't invest a long-term deal in Osweiler, Elway effectively failed in his drafting of him and had him 'rot away' for four years on the bench.

Les Shapiro is totally right here. It's not so easy to just "find a QB". Where are you going to get one?

FA? You're getting a guy who has already failed with at least 1 previous team and hoping somehow he comes here and succeeds. Scrubs and re-treads. There are a couple of teams with decent backup QBs - Brandon Weeden, Drew Stanton, Jimmy Garopolo. But most backups are guys like Jimmy Clausen, Blaine Gabbert, Geno Smith.

Those are the kind of QBs who hit the market. Crap. Guys who were given the ball and fumbled it, and wound up as backups with another team, then become FAs, and want to have another chance to become starters. At best you get an ageing veteran like Ryan Fitzpatrick, at worst. . . a coach killer like RG III.

Then there's the draft. Fogetaboutit!

Many years there's not even 1 good QB in the entire draft. Some years it's like 2015 where there are 2 - Winston & Mariota, and they go in the first 2 picks.

Denver's only hope of drafting a QB would be to take one at the end of the 2nd or 3rd round and develop the guy for 3 or 4 years, because you certainly aren't going to get a guy you can plug in and start his rookie season and not be a total disaster.

There might not even be a useful developmental QB available when the Broncos pick.

They've got Osweiler. He could theoretically turn out to be a top 10 QB in future.

They just can't let him get away now. They have to take a chance, lock him up and continue to develop him and see how good he can be.

After next season we should have a much better idea whether he's really the franchise QB or not. It's worth taking the risk, because they are defending SB champions, not some loser team like the Browns!

[Ziggy]

Part of me agrees with you but then the other part of me says "why did we struggle so much?". There is WAY too much talent on this team to have struggled so poorly as we did on the offensive side of the ball. Too many missed opportunities in games with bad blocking, poor throwing, inconsistent rushing, dropped passes, etc. I could understand the struggles if the talent wasnt there but it was baffling that this team had as many issues as they did.

With poor offensive line play, the talent level around it won't make much of a difference. You have to have blocking. Manning's quick release helped some, but for most of the season there was no pocket to sit back in, and no lanes for the running backs to hit. You could put a young AP, Calvin, Joe Montana and Jerry Rice on this offense and it wouldn't have made much of a difference.

[SR]

Way I heard it, THE goal is outscoring the other team. There's lots of ways to do that, but when your offense SUCKS because it can't block for the run NOR pass, forcing the issue when already leading is NOT how to outscore anyone. To borrow a good line, "What does it profit a team to gain a TD if it lose two?"

The coach's job is to put the team in the best position to win.

[SR]

Excuse the Hell out of me, folks, but my post was DEFENDING the way the offense was run last year in the face of SOMEONE ELSE criticizing it. Don't let the facts get in the way of personal animosity though.

You're not the person to defend anything Denver does.

[TXBRONC]

Excuse the Hell out of me, folks, but my post was DEFENDING the way the offense was run last year in the face of SOMEONE ELSE criticizing it.

Don't let the facts get in the way of personal animosity though.

I have no animosity toward you, but you are quite whiny.

You mean like the fact that two days after the Super Bowl you started a thread to bitch about Talib?

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php/602818-Okay-We-ve-Had-a-Couple-Days-to-Enjoy-Our-Championship-Now-Let-s-Speak-of-Talib

[Joel]

You're not the person to defend anything Denver does.
Maybe, but I sure wasn't the person criticizing it here; maybe the Fan Police should talk to that guy and get off my ass. ;)

[SR]

Maybe, but I sure wasn't the person criticizing it here; maybe the Fan Police should talk to that guy and get off my ass. ;)

Or you could recollect everything you've said about this team all season (and forever) and remember your place.

[TXBRONC]

Maybe, but I sure wasn't the person criticizing it here; maybe the Fan Police should talk to that guy and get off my ass. ;)

You're constantly complaining Joel even when think you're not. Most of your "complement" tended to be backhanded. :coffee:

[Joel]

I have no animosity toward you, but you are quite whiny.

You mean like the fact that two days after the Super Bowl you started a thread to bitch about Talib?

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php/602818-Okay-We-ve-Had-a-Couple-Days-to-Enjoy-Our-Championship-Now-Let-s-Speak-of-Talib
Yes, I'm aware: Dude's a thug I didn't want and won't miss. Still doesn't make me the one criticizing how Kubiak ran what passed for our 2015 offense, which he did well enough to win a SB despite a line that couldn't block my grandmother (even though she's dead.)

[Joel]

You're constantly complaining Joel even when think you're not. Most of your "complement" tended to be backhanded. :coffee:
*Compliment. I've met (many) people who speak English better as a second language than you do as a NATIVE language; still wanna lecture on ignorance?

Regardless, I didn't complain about anything here, only REBUT SOMEONE ELSES COMPLAINT.

[Slick]

The 10 posts bitching about Joel are far more annoying than anything he ever posts. Joel was on point and you all look like whining babies.

[NightTerror218]

*Compliment. I've met (many) people who speak English better as a second language than you do as a NATIVE language; still wanna lecture on ignorance?

Regardless, I didn't complain about anything here, only REBUT SOMEONE ELSES COMPLAINT.

Joel you have butcher about the line e for 9 months. Complain and whine that Elway has failed to address it. Yet we won a SB. Nobody has argues that the OL sucked but repeated attempted at stating our two top tackles were on IR buy midpoint in the season. And you still harp how Elway has FAILED at addressing the OL.

You ignore facts when they do not support your opinions.

[BroncoJoe]

The 10 posts bitching about Joel are far more annoying than anything he ever posts. Joel was on point and you all look like whining babies.

A broken clock is right twice a day. For the other 1,438 minutes though, it's annoying.

[TXBRONC]

The 10 posts bitching about Joel are far more annoying than anything he ever posts. Joel was on point and you all look like whining babies.

You're entitled to your opinion.

[BroncoJoe]

Joe is one of those guys that just doesn't enjoy being happy. He enjoys complaining. Still whining about the OL makes him feel good about himself. He's still applying for that GM job, you know.

Uh, I think this post needs a sLight correction.

[Cugel]

With poor offensive line play, the talent level around it won't make much of a difference. You have to have blocking. Manning's quick release helped some, but for most of the season there was no pocket to sit back in, and no lanes for the running backs to hit. You could put a young AP, Calvin, Joe Montana and Jerry Rice on this offense and it wouldn't have made much of a difference.

This is true. Chad Brown was just on 104.3 the Fan talking about how every offensive coordinator in the schedule will spend weeks breaking down Broncos film, studying the defense and trying to come up with some special scheme or play to beat the Denver defense.

When you have a dominating defense every team in the league tries to pick your players, they try to come up with schemes to take away what you do well, they try and find ways to beat you, because you're the best and if you want to win it all, you have to be able to beat the best.

Denver will probably not have the #1 overall defense next season, and certainly not an historically great defense. That means the offense will have to be better for them to win.

And that means the OL will have to be a lot better. It would be nice if Clady and Sambrailo were the answers there, but that's not a sure thing. The Broncos will have to have some pretty good backups in case those players don't work out.

Because holding the NFL's #1 offense to 10 points in the SB is not going to happen again.

[Cugel]

Joel you have butcher about the line e for 9 months. Complain and whine that Elway has failed to address it. Yet we won a SB. Nobody has argues that the OL sucked but repeated attempted at stating our two top tackles were on IR buy midpoint in the season. And you still harp how Elway has FAILED at addressing the OL.

You ignore facts when they do not support your opinions.

It's too tedious to go back to 2013 and point out all the reasons you are wrong. But, you are wrong. Elway did NOT address the problems on the OL, which were much more than just one tackle position.

The PLAN this year was to start 3 rookies/ first year starters on the OL of a team trying to win a SB with a 39 year old Peyton: LG Max Garcia, C Matt Paradis, and RT Ty Sambrailo.

That was the PLAN and it sucked. Bad. It only got worse when Clady and Sambrailo got hurt and they were forced to start Ryan Harris & Michael Schofield.

First they had a sucky plan. Then they panicked when they saw how bad their OL was, then they went out and signed veterans Evan Mathis and Ryan Harris. Then Those players were underwhelming. Then they became the first NFL team to win a SB with less than 200 yards in total offense.

Don't count on that happening ever again in Broncos history. You aren't winning many SBs with a QB with a 53 passer rating and your QB sacked 5 times and strip sacked once.

Even if Clady and Sambrailo had been healthy this OL would never have been great. Better yes, but still pretty bad because they had significant problems at the C and both G positions too, and because Sambrailo played pretty bad as a rookie, and would not have been great at RT either.

[TXBRONC]

It's too tedious to go back to 2013 and point out all the reasons you are wrong. But, you are wrong. Elway did NOT address the problems on the OL, which were much more than just one tackle position.

The PLAN this year was to start 3 rookies/ first year starters on the OL of a team trying to win a SB with a 39 year old Peyton: LG Max Garcia, C Matt Paradis, and RT Ty Sambrailo.

That was the PLAN and it sucked. Bad. It only got worse when Clady and Sambrailo got hurt and they were forced to start Ryan Harris & Michael Schofield.

First they had a sucky plan. Then they panicked when they saw how bad their OL was, then they went out and signed veterans Evan Mathis and Ryan Harris. Then Those players were underwhelming. Then they became the first NFL team to win a SB with less than 200 yards in total offense.

Don't count on that happening ever again in Broncos history. You aren't winning many SBs with a QB with a 53 passer rating and your QB sacked 5 times and strip sacked once.

I don't know Cugel. It seems to me the biggest problem Denver had on the offensive line was a right tackle.

[silkamilkamonico]

Way I heard it, THE goal is outscoring the other team. There's lots of ways to do that, but when your offense SUCKS because it can't block for the run NOR pass, forcing the issue when already leading is NOT how to outscore anyone. To borrow a good line, "What does it profit a team to gain a TD if it lose two?"

This comment should be embarrassingly obvious to any football fan, and the fact that we just won a SuperBowl with an offensive system/scheme/personnel that we pretty much could have plugged any NFL player at any position on offense and won, tells me we pretty much have nothing to worry about moving forward assuming the gm and coach will move in a direction that will improve on the little we did have, which should also be embarrassingly obvious that will focus on improving as well.

Next year, our oline alone will automatically be better with the addition of Sambraillo, draft pick(s), free agent(s), and possibly even Clady as well if he does take the significant paycut. Max Garcia is a good looking young player who is only going to get better too, and if we can get stability and quit moving some of these young players just figuring out how to play the game around in shuffling positions, that alone is going to help.

We just won the SuperBowl with a young, talentless, shuffling, plug in oline (who maybe couldn't control a college dline), blocking for a 40 year old statue who is arguably the NFL's worst "mobile" QB. Think about that. I can't imagine we will ever be as devoid of talent as we were this year in terms of oline/QB combination. And we STILL won the SuperBowl.

[DenBronx]

Geez....we go all the way and we are still fighting, bitching, complaining and attacking each other.


Pretty ridiculous right?


Seriously if you are here just to troll then maybe just create another account on a Panther, raider, Pats forums and go troll them instead. Life must be pretty bad for you if can't see the good in this team right now.

[TXBRONC]

Geez....we go all the way and we are still fighting, bitching, complaining and attacking each other.


Pretty ridiculous right?


Seriously if you are here just to troll then maybe just create another account on a Panther, raider, Pats forums and go troll them instead. Life must be pretty bad for you if can't see the good in this team right now.

I couldn't be happier about the win. Two weeks ago I posted that if Denver played clean game offensively they had very good chance of winning. For the most part they did and well the now they're the defending Super Bowl Champs.

[chazoe60]

Uh, I think this post needs a sLight correction.

I think it was right on point.

[Ravage!!!]

I think it was right on point.

:lol:

[Cugel]

I don't know Cugel. It seems to me the biggest problem Denver had on the offensive line was a right tackle.

If you mean Schofield, I got no argument with you. But it's rather like arguing about which hole in the bottom of the ship is the worst. Having any holes in the bottom of the hull is bad.

Ryan Harris plays like the career backup he is and he's a FA. He got beat like a gong by Kony Ealy and so did Schofield. Getting Clady back would clearly help - IF he's completely healthy and able to play better than he did in 2014.

Meanwhile LG Evan Mathis is going to be 35 this year and is clearly washed up. He can't stay healthy played like a shadow of his former Pro-Bowl self. He's earning $4 M a year and they can do without him.

His backup, Max Garcia proved he's a decent run-blocker but pretty bad in pass-protection. He should start but he needs to improve a lot.

RG Louis Vasquez certainly didn't play like a Pro-bowler either.

and C Matt Paradis, gets bull rushed a lot.

So, there are a lot of problems that new Tackles won't solve.

[Mike]

The Broncos are doomed if Kubes can't get more aggressive on offense, regardless of who the QB is.

Kubes gets a pass this season (thanks to the masterful job Phillips did with the defense). I will give him a little rope on his gameplan with the massive pile of stink that was the oline. If they don't make oline a priority and he sticks with these vanilla game plans then we will talk. Can't get any kind of quality QB play or put together any kind of gameplan with a line as bad as ours was this year.

I think Denver will be in trouble regardless of who is playing QB if the oline isn't fixed.

[Lancane]

Denver may not be fixing the offensive line as we would like, they could literally hope Clady can go and grab depth in the mid rounds. After all, they are high on Ty, Vasquez, Paradis and Garcia, but the real reason I am saying it is because there is a rumor and it is only that, but that Denver has supposedly reached out to Tennessee about the first overall pick, the supposed trade would be for Wentz.

[TXBRONC]

Kubes gets a pass this season (thanks to the masterful job Phillips did with the defense). I will give him a little rope on his gameplan with the massive pile of stink that was the oline. If they don't make oline a priority and he sticks with these vanilla game plans then we will talk. Can't get any kind of quality QB play or put together any kind of gameplan with a line as bad as ours was this year.

I think Denver will be in trouble regardless of who is playing QB if the oline isn't fixed.

If Clady had not gotten hurt the offensive would have been better. All things considered he managed a bad situation pretty well.

[TXBRONC]

Denver may not be fixing the offensive line as we would like, they could literally hope Clady can go and grab depth in the mid rounds. After all, they are high on Ty, Vasquez, Paradis and Garcia, but the real reason I am saying it is because there is a rumor and it is only that, but that Denver has supposedly reached out to Tennessee about the first overall pick, the supposed trade would be for Wentz.

I wouldn't trust that rumor at all at this point. Denver has some extra picks but Elway has shown that he is patience in the draft much like Ozzie Newsome.

[NightTerror218]

I wouldn't trust that rumor at all at this point. Denver has some extra picks but Elway has shown that he is patience in the draft much like Ozzie Newsome.

Elway is excellent GM. He will always talk to other GM. See what they want for trading. He will bring in top players at each position. His recruits will be everywhere to make a great draft board. But he always leaves every option open in the draft.

[Lancane]

I wouldn't trust that rumor at all at this point. Denver has some extra picks but Elway has shown that he is patience in the draft much like Ozzie Newsome.

I would usually agree, and I'd rather they took Connor Cook later. But, with the Prescott, Osweiler and RGIII talk, well...not sure if anyone has a clue, the only move thus far which I would not want is RGIII.

[TXBRONC]

I would usually agree, and I'd rather they took Connor Cook later. But, with the Prescott, Osweiler and RGIII talk, well...not sure if anyone has a clue, the only move thus far which I would not want is RGIII.

If we end up RGIII I would be leery but Kubiak has taken quarterbacks with far less physical talentand had be serviceable for short periods of time fwiw.

[Lancane]

And Elway is somewhat superstitious, as with the white jerseys this year. The Broncos have only won Super Bowls with a first overall pick under center, not saying he'll believe that they could only win that way, but it's worth noting because it's this far held true, same with with even getting to the Championship give before 80's.

[NightTerror218]

If we end up RGIII I would leery but Kubiak has taken quarterbacks with far less physical and had serviceable for short periods of time fwiw.

He could be a vet backup and push for starter but would have to be cheap

[Lancane]

If we end up RGIII I would leery but Kubiak has taken quarterbacks with far less physical and had serviceable for short periods of time fwiw.

True, but RGIII failed to translate to a pro-style offense, even Shanahan had to go with a hybrid scheme which eventually failed. Then he wanted Cousins to start and was fired...so?

[TXBRONC]

He could be a vet backup and push for starter but would have to be cheap

I'm confident Elway wouldn't overpay him.

[NightTerror218]

I confident Elway wouldn't overpay him.

Only thing that concerns me is the circus but surprisingly he has been quite all year and all the talk about him as well.

[TXBRONC]

True, but RGIII failed to translate to a pro-style offense, even Shanahan had to go with a hybrid scheme which eventually failed. Then he wanted Cousins to start and was fired...so?

Mentioned that elsewhere. Shanahan incorporated a lot spread option stuff and it worked well until he started getting hurt. He's not a big quarterback so he would have to improve as pocket passer.

[Lancane]

Mentioned that elsewhere. Shanahan incorporated a lot spread option stuff and it worked well until he started getting hurt. He's not a big quarterback so he would have to improve as pocket passer.

He's not that small TX, he's 6'2 and 222lbs. Bigger then Brees, Wilson, Plummer and a few others. But I agree that his only chance of success is to conform to a pocket quarterback. I hope this is a contract tactic, but if not then he better light it up in Denver, we fans are an unforgiving bunch.

[Ravage!!!]

Denver may not be fixing the offensive line as we would like, they could literally hope Clady can go and grab depth in the mid rounds. After all, they are high on Ty, Vasquez, Paradis and Garcia, but the real reason I am saying it is because there is a rumor and it is only that, but that Denver has supposedly reached out to Tennessee about the first overall pick, the supposed trade would be for Wentz.

That's pretty big speculation considering the combine hasn't even come up and around. I know the combine doesn't prove if he's #1 over-all talent, but rumors like this are SOOO over the top that it seems pretty "out-there." If you know what I mean. Especially considering the Oz situation.

[Ravage!!!]

He's not that small TX, he's 6'2 and 222lbs. Bigger then Brees, Wilson, Plummer and a few others. But I agree that his only chance of success is to conform to a pocket quarterback. I hope this is a contract tactic, but if not then he better light it up in Denver, we fans are an unforgiving bunch.

He's 6'2..but frail and skinny 6'2". You just have to look at him and can see the differences between he and Brees (as an example), and CERTAINLY Wilson (there isn't even a comparison to body types there).

He's fast in straight line, but all reports is that he's not "quick" for a guy of his stature. Fast in sprints, but ask him to cut, and he's slow. Which is why he takes bigger hits in the NFL than other 'running' QBs. He literally doesn't know how to slide, and even after bringing in baseball coaches to help him, he got injured trying to slide.

But that's all about his 'running' from the QB position. It's his inability to pass from the pocket, his complete inability to take criticism and accept responsibility for anything, that is really the flashing red lights.

[Lancane]

That's pretty big speculation considering the combine hasn't even come up and around. I know the combine doesn't prove if he's #1 over-all talent, but rumors like this are SOOO over the top that it seems pretty "out-there." If you know what I mean. Especially considering the Oz situation.

It's likely the talking heads around Tennessee trying to create some news, but it was thrown out there.

[TXBRONC]

He's not that small TX, he's 6'2 and 222lbs. Bigger then Brees, Wilson, Plummer and a few others. But I agree that his only chance of success is to conform to a pocket quarterback. I hope this is a contract tactic, but if not then he better light it up in Denver, we fans are an unforgiving bunch.

He still smallish side. Yes he's taller that Brees and Wilson and he weighs more than Plummer did that's still real big for a quarterback and his history shows that he hasn't been real durable.
\]
Hey if Broncos bring him in I won't be getting on the hate wagon. As a fan I would give him chance but I would still have concerns but those could be dispelled by solid play.

[Ravage!!!]

He still smallish side. Yes he's taller that Brees and Wilson and he weighs more than Plummer did that's still real big for a quarterback and his history shows that he hasn't been real durable.
\]
Hey if Broncos bring him in I won't be getting on the hate wagon. As a fan I would give him chance but I would still have concerns but those could be dispelled by solid play.

I'll admit I won't be as kind if he's brought in.

[TXBRONC]

I'll admit I won't be as kind if he's brought in.

If you were a kinder and gentler Ravage I would suspect identity theft. :D

[Ravage!!!]

If you were a kinder and gentler Ravage I would suspect identity theft. :D

hahah.. that's awesome. :beer:

[Cugel]

Unless he's a top 3 QB in this years draft. I believe Goff is pro style ready.

NO rookie is ready to start for a defending SB team! Not even John Elway was ready to start his rookie year - which he admitted.