Denver needs a QB...

[artie_dale]

Hey all, I wish I knew how to create a poll, but I do not so here is my question.

I think this was mentioned in another thread so I hope I bring a different context to it.

We know there are no guarantees for Brock Osweiller to return. The word is that he will likely be offered between $16-$19 million a year. Whether he deserves that much or not, I do not know.

The question was asked earlier, "What about RGIII". I was totally against it at the time, but in retrospect, after seeing how Brock did so-so in Kubes' offense, I wonder how well RGIII could do in this offense.

Considering all of RGIII's talents, I do believe that if there was a locker room that could correct RGIII's personality woes (kind of like Cam's, but not nearly as deviant & narcissistic (definitly narcissistic though)), I think it is our locker room. Especially with DeMarcus Ware sticking around.

So, my question is, who would thrive more in Kubes' offense that could very well lead us to another season of contention:

Brock Osweiller
or
Robert Griffin III

GO!

[Timmy!]

Really?

[Dreadnought]

I don't want RG III for free. I would prefer Kyle Orton. Brian Griese. Denver Native Carol. Good Lord No

[TXBRONC]

Re-sign Osweiler.

[artie_dale]

Really?

Yeah... (that's all I got)

[broncofaninfla]

I'd like to go with Brock and even feel good about Trevor in the mix as well.

[Slick]

Where in the hell are you people getting these numbers for Brock? 16-19 mil a year? No thanks.

[BroncoJoe]

Where in the hell are you people getting these numbers for Brock? 16-19 mil a year? No thanks.

10-12. 15 is the MAX.

Clearly, IMO.

[artie_dale]

Where in the hell are you people getting these numbers for Brock? 16-19 mil a year? No thanks.

I listen to a lot of sports talk radio. I've heard some suggest as high as he can expect or some teams may give him up to $20M a year. I don't see that as being reasonable at all.

I also heard today that RGIII will be due $16M if Wash doesn't cut or trade him before the deadline. I expect RGIII will be worth less than that if he gets cut and another team signs him. The way I see it, the ONLY teams who are sure fire in need of a QB are Cleveland and MAYBE the Texans (if they aren't committed to Hoyer). So, if he doesn't want to play in either of those places and he wants to be on a winning team, I believe we can get him cheaper than Brock (we need cap space do we not?). I like Brock, but the $$$ is a concern of mine, personally.

[BroncoJoe]

I listen to a lot of sports talk radio. I've heard some suggest as high as he can expect or some teams may give him up to $20M a year. I don't see that as being reasonable at all.

I also heard today that RGIII will be due $16M if Wash doesn't cut or trade him before the deadline. I expect RGIII will be worth less than that if he gets cut and another team signs him. The way I see it, the ONLY teams who are sure fire in need of a QB are Cleveland and MAYBE the Texans (if they aren't committed to Hoyer). So, if he doesn't want to play in either of those places and he wants to be on a winning team, I believe we can get him cheaper than Brock (we need cap space do we not?). I like Brock, but the $$$ is a concern of mine, personally.

I like Brock and all, but I can't see this happening. Too many gun-shy GM's out there now because of other 2nd string QB's that looked great.

[artie_dale]

I like Brock and all, but I can't see this happening. Too many gun-shy GM's out there now because of other 2nd string QB's that looked great.

I hope you're right. I thought it was a stretch too. I'm pretty sure it was Adam Schefter who gave the $16-$19M ball park so that's what I went with as a possibility. I do think though, that RGIII will get less (likely a 2-3 yr deal at $10-13M tops).

[Valar Morghulis]

Oz for no more than twelve. Or RG3.

[Northman]

No to RGIII.

To frail, not accurate enough. I would rather see Brock continue in the offense and see where that takes us over signing Griffin. But the reality is you have to give the QB more than 7 games to prove his worth no matter if its John Elway, Peyton Manning, Tim Tebow, or Brock Osweiler. 7 games isnt going to give you a true gauge of what that player can do.

[tubby]

Peyton Manning and Trevor Siemian are under contract for 2016.

[NightTerror218]

Some recent contracts signed by QBs.

2 years $24.5 M with $13.8M guarenteed Foles

6 year $96 million $15M Dalton

4 year $87 M with $61M guarenteed Wilson

5 year $103.8M with $61M guarenteed Newton

Wilson and Newton have base salaries of $13 M. Dalton and Foles have $10M.

I see Oz getting a 2-3 year between Foles and dalton contract

[Joel]

Sure, I'd love to have RGIII in this offense: He can scramble and throw, has starter experience and is young to Kubiak can fix/train him. Paying him $2-3 mil/yr to backup Oz would be sound injury insurance. But as a STARTER, I'd feel safer with Oz (even though there's still more unknown than known there.) If that's not an option, I'd rather Kubiak tried to fix Phillys castoff than Washingtons, or try to trade up for an early 1st round pick to get a QB in one of the next two drafts.

Look, we just irrefutably proved our D's so good we don't need an ELITE QB to beat the best of the rest of the NFL, just a game manager who doesn't throw away games. I'm confident Elway, Kubiak and Dennison will field a FAR better offensive line next year, and certainly HOPE we keep CJ as our starter so he can run wild behind elite BLOCKING without, once again, need of an elite QB. Kubiak will find his franchise QB soon, but it may not be this year unless Oz is as good as we all hope.

[NightTerror218]

Sure, I'd love to have RGIII in this offense: He can scramble and throw, has starter experience and is young to Kubiak can fix/train him. Paying him $2-3 mil/yr to backup Oz would be sound injury insurance. But as a STARTER, I'd feel safer with Oz (even though there's still more unknown than known there.) If that's not an option, I'd rather Kubiak tried to fix Phillys castoff than Washingtons, or try to trade up for an early 1st round pick to get a QB in one of the next two drafts.

Look, we just irrefutably proved our D's so good we don't need an ELITE QB to beat the best of the rest of the NFL, just a game manager who doesn't throw away games. I'm confident Elway, Kubiak and Dennison will field a FAR better offensive line next year, and certainly HOPE we keep CJ as our starter so he can run wild behind elite BLOCKING without, once again, need of an elite QB. Kubiak will find his franchise QB soon, but it may not be this year unless Oz is as good as we all hope.

To trade up will cost this year first, next year first and more.

[BroncoJoe]

To trade up will cost this year first, next year first and more.

Joel thinks the movie Draft Day was based on a true story.

[Ravage!!!]

Brock isn't getting 20....

But I would RATHER pay Brock 20 than have RGIII for less. It's really that simple. NO to RG, No to the douche in San Fran.

[BroncoJoe]

Peyton Manning and Trevor Siemian are under contract for 2016.

Peyton is gone. You only like Trevor because of what his last name reminds you of.

What's your beef with Brock??

[tubby]

Peyton is gone. You only like Trevor because of what his last name reminds you of.

What's your beef with Brock??

He's aight. $8m max.

[tomjonesrocks]

All about the money. Klis claims Brock really wants to stay in Denver, and if so he needs to take less than someone like the Rams might give him.

I see this as a Decker-type situation though where it will be smart to let him walk.

[Northman]

Lol

[Magnificent Seven]

Re-sign Osweiler and sign Calvin Johnson! :D

[tomjonesrocks]

Lol

That for me or Tubby?

[elsid13]

RGIII isn't an NFL QB. Shanahan had him in the the same system and he absolute sucked. And then Gruden try to fix him and he got worse.

[DenBronx]

Re-sign Osweiler and sign Calvin Johnson! :D


Hey, then it wouldn't matter who our QB was. Lolol

Then just draft another rookie and let him and Trevor battle for the job. Our defense is good no matter who the QB is.

Tebow Time???? Hahaha

[The Glue Factory]

Tebow Time???? Hahaha

LUNACY! You are stark raving MAD!

So, how much should we pay the good man?

[DenBronx]

Tebow Time???? Hahaha

LUNACY! You are stark raving MAD!

So, how much should we pay the good man?

I think he would play for free.


Shane knows all about him, maybe he knows.

[TXBRONC]

I'd like to go with Brock and even feel good about Trevor in the mix as well.

I don't know about Trevor being in the mix. He's got arm and looks like he might be a good fit but he's probably still pretty raw.

[Nomad]

Where in the hell are you people getting these numbers for Brock? 16-19 mil a year? No thanks.

Inflation:D

[Nomad]

10-12. 15 is the MAX.

Clearly, IMO.

Oh....so now you're the BRONCOS accountant! ;) :D

[BroncoJoe]

Inflation:D

Thanks, Obama.

[Nomad]

Thanks, Obama.

Wait til Bernie gets in :shocked:

[CrazyHorse]

I would have been on board with this before he shredded his knee.

[elsid13]

I would have been on board with this before he shredded his knee.

The part of the problem that make him suck as NFL isn't his knee, but what between his ears.

[Rick]

Any team willing to give Brock 20 mill after 7 games where he was promising but far from great, well it goes to show the very reason that team has probably sucked for a very long time.

[EastCoastBronco]

RG3 is toast.
If we can re-sign Oz for reasonable money and then fix or partially fix our O-Line with leftover money we'll be in good shape.
I thought OZ performed well in his 7 game "tryout" and would have performed better if our "offensive" line hadn't stunk like ass all season long.
Sign Ozzy, bolster that O-Line and we've got a legitimate shot at another title next year.

[NightTerror218]

RG3 is toast.
If we can re-sign Oz for reasonable money and then fix or partially fix our O-Line with leftover money we'll be in good shape.
I thought OZ performed well in his 7 game "tryout" and would have performed better if our "offensive" line hadn't stunk like ass all season long.
Sign Ozzy, bolster that O-Line and we've got a legitimate shot at another title next year.

With our starting tackles return next season it will be better. How many teams were on their 3rd string LT and 2nd string RT?

[Cugel]

Where in the hell are you people getting these numbers for Brock? 16-19 mil a year? No thanks.

Don't worry about it. It's wildly unlikely that anybody is going to offer more than $15 M a year. Remember that Brock has started 7 games in the NFL. He looked good during that stretch.

But, elite money for such an unproven QB? You'd have to be crazy desperate to throw $19 M at a guy who might not be particularly good.

I don't know that anybody in the league is that crazy.

Osweiler will probably get $10-12 M base salary by the reports with some incentives that could boost the salary above $15 M.

I'd be surprised if it's much more than that. After all the Raiders are the team that snaps up Broncos FAs the most, and they have $70 M under the cap, but they have Derek Carr locked in as their starter and don't need a QB.

The Bears with John Fox could want him, and they have a ton of cap room, but they have Cutler and Fox is working with him and got better production out of him last year: comp % - 64.4, passer yards: 3,659, TDs 21, INTs 11, QB Rating: 92.3.

Those are not bad numbers. Adam Gase has turned his career around and if he continues to play like this in 2016, he'll be pretty good. Certainly they are not looking for a QB to replace Cutler at this point.

Some other QB desperate team might overpay Osweiler, but none of the teams with truly insane amounts of cap room that they have to spend really need a QB.

I'd be very surprised if they don't get a deal worked out.

And if they don't you can bet RG III, the guy who couldn't get along with Mike Shanahan and wound up getting his coach fired, is NOT coming to Denver.

Can you imagine what Shanahan would tell his friend and former coach Kubiak about RG III if Kubiak were thinking of acquiring RG III? The phone might actually melt from the acid of that conversation!

[Cugel]

With our starting tackles return next season it will be better. How many teams were on their 3rd string LT and 2nd string RT?

The Patriots for one. Yes the Broncos should be better if Clady is healthy enough to play this year, but will he come back? They need to re-work his $10 M contract.

And if they do is he reliable? He's missed 2 of the last 3 years on IR with knee injuries. And he wasn't very good in 2014 when he played. He's a shadow of the former Pro-Bowl LT he was before he got hurt in 2013 and he's over 30 now. He's not going to ever be that player again.

They might even want to start Ty Sambrailo at LT and find a RT in FA. The problem then is that you're one injury away from starting Michael Schofield again. And that would be . . . . sub-optimal.

8614
Here's Terrell Suggs schooling Sambrailo in the first game. Not entirely his fault because he's just a raw rookie. But, my point is that he's STILL a rookie since he missed all but 3 games this year. He still doesn't have much experience so how good is he really?

[Ravage!!!]

The Patriots for one. Yes the Broncos should be better if Clady is healthy enough to play this year, but will he come back? They need to re-work his $10 M contract.

And if they do is he reliable? He's missed 2 of the last 3 years on IR with knee injuries. And he wasn't very good in 2014 when he played. He's a shadow of the former Pro-Bowl LT he was before he got hurt in 2013 and he's over 30 now. He's not going to ever be that player again.

They might even want to start Ty Sambrailo at LT and find a RT in FA. The problem then is that you're one injury away from starting Michael Schofield again. And that would be . . . . sub-optimal.

8614
Here's Terrell Suggs schooling Sambrailo in the first game. Not entirely his fault because he's just a raw rookie. But, my point is that he's STILL a rookie since he missed all but 3 games this year. He still doesn't have much experience so how good is he really?

Teams start rookies all the time, though. Manning went to the Super Bowl, and won, with a rookie LT while in Indy. So Sambrailo might be a rookie, physically..however time in meetings and at practice has also given him time to learn by listening to the calls, auibles, and learning from game taps and prep meetings on blockign schemes and defensive schemes that he wasn't introduced to before his rookie season. That education and experience is worth a lot.

[NightTerror218]

The Patriots for one. Yes the Broncos should be better if Clady is healthy enough to play this year, but will he come back? They need to re-work his $10 M contract.

And if they do is he reliable? He's missed 2 of the last 3 years on IR with knee injuries. And he wasn't very good in 2014 when he played. He's a shadow of the former Pro-Bowl LT he was before he got hurt in 2013 and he's over 30 now. He's not going to ever be that player again.

They might even want to start Ty Sambrailo at LT and find a RT in FA. The problem then is that you're one injury away from starting Michael Schofield again. And that would be . . . . sub-optimal.

<img src="http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=8614"/>
Here's Terrell Suggs schooling Sambrailo in the first game. Not entirely his fault because he's just a raw rookie. But, my point is that he's STILL a rookie since he missed all but 3 games this year. He still doesn't have much experience so how good is he really?

Pats lost Nate Solder but still had Vollmer. We lost our top 2 Tackles Pats did not.

Clady said he would rework contract this offseason. He has only had 1 knee injury not 2 in the last 2 season. The other injury was lisfrac in 2013.

Sambrailo was ment to be RT. Suggs has done that to so many LT, I don't look down on Sambrailo for it in his first ever game.

[TXBRONC]

The Patriots for one. Yes the Broncos should be better if Clady is healthy enough to play this year, but will he come back? They need to re-work his $10 M contract.

And if they do is he reliable? He's missed 2 of the last 3 years on IR with knee injuries. And he wasn't very good in 2014 when he played. He's a shadow of the former Pro-Bowl LT he was before he got hurt in 2013 and he's over 30 now. He's not going to ever be that player again.

They might even want to start Ty Sambrailo at LT and find a RT in FA. The problem then is that you're one injury away from starting Michael Schofield again. And that would be . . . . sub-optimal.

8614
Here's Terrell Suggs schooling Sambrailo in the first game. Not entirely his fault because he's just a raw rookie. But, my point is that he's STILL a rookie since he missed all but 3 games this year. He still doesn't have much experience so how good is he really?

Well you are talking about a all pro and former DPOY schooling a rookie. As NTL mention Sambrailo was drafted to play right tackle it's only because of the injury to Clady that he started on the left.

[Cugel]

Teams start rookies all the time, though. Manning went to the Super Bowl, and won, with a rookie LT while in Indy. So Sambrailo might be a rookie, physically..however time in meetings and at practice has also given him time to learn by listening to the calls, auibles, and learning from game taps and prep meetings on blockign schemes and defensive schemes that he wasn't introduced to before his rookie season. That education and experience is worth a lot.

I'm not arguing that he must suck. The Broncos were quite happy with his development, his temperament and work ethic. My post was simply to point out that he's still a rookie, and a rookie is going to get schooled by veteran DL and that will happen again in 2016.

Don't interpret my remarks as predicting that he'll be a failure. We can't know that and it doesn't look like he is so far. It's just going to be a rough adjustment period.

[Cugel]

Pats lost Nate Solder but still had Vollmer. We lost our top 2 Tackles Pats did not.

Clady said he would rework contract this offseason. He has only had 1 knee injury not 2 in the last 2 season. The other injury was lisfrac in 2013.

Sambrailo was ment to be RT. Suggs has done that to so many LT, I don't look down on Sambrailo for it in his first ever game.

I was going to point out that my previous post was incorrect and that Clady's injury in 2013 was a Lis Franc foot injury.

Of course, having your knee blow out in a non-contact pre-season scrimmage is not a good sign. But, if his knee is fully healed, he should be better than he was in 2014 at least, because Lis Franc injuries can take more than 1 year to heal. It's a lingering injury.

So this makes it more hopeful that Clady will be useful in 2016, but whether he and the team can agree on compensation is another story. He might be worth $4-5 M a year right now, but he's scheduled to make $10 M. He's open to re-negotiation, but how much? Will he agree to play for $5 M?

[Cugel]

If Clady really is recovered, and Sambrailo stays healthy then the Broncos have 2 starting Ts both of whom are better than Ryan Harris or Michael Schofield (or Tyler Polumbus).

That will help the OL, but they still need more because they are terribly thin at OL - as the injuries this past season proved.

It's critical that the OL be really GOOD OL because of you won't have Peyton Manning to make up for the weak OL by getting rid of the ball so quickly (he has one of the quickest releases in the NFL).

Osweiler takes much longer to deliver the ball, and consequently, the OL must hold their blocks for longer. And the Kubiak system relies on being able to run the ball effectively, but the offense struggled to do that consistently all year long, and especially in the SB. You know that Kubiak hates the constant refrain of "try to run and get stuffed." He wants to be able to line up and still get 3 or 4 yards even when the defense knows you're trying to run.

Just like the '97 and '98 Broncos were able to do.

There is uncertainty at the C and G positions too. C Matt Paradis is a FA (although they are almost certain to re-sign him because he's an exclusive rights FA). Louis Vasquez under-performed this season. I don't know whether it was age, injury or he just doesn't fit well in this scheme, but his play was certainly not up to his former Pro-Bowl standard.

Evan Mathis is going to be 35 this season and should be done. I'd say he's not worth the $4 M he received going forward. They have Max Garcia whom they like a lot to start at LG and he's earning less than $1 M, so that's a cap savings. I would anticipate the team to try and find another G, C, or T in the first or 2nd round of the draft and use that player to back up Garcia and Vasquez. Or they might find another player in FA.

The only backup OL aside from Polumbus on the roster would be James Ferenz and Sam Brenner, both of whom are training cap fodder. They need more good OL as injuries have crippled the OL play every year since 2012.

[Buff]

1.) I think there is a 99% probability that we re-sign Brock, likely somewhere in the $11-$15mil/yr range, give or take some depending on guarantees and up front money.

2.) I think people have been too quick to throw out the baby with the bathwater with RGIII. I think he has been humbled, he has had a chance to get healthier again, and he would be a good fit for a misdirection/bootlegging system like Kubiak's. Let's not forget he was offensive rookie of the year before that devastating injury.

Looking around the league, it's hard to envision a better fit for him than this system, learning under someone like Kubiak who has such great knowledge of that position. Plus he was a fan of the Broncos growing up, married a girl from Greeley, and would likely be hungry to work for a new opportunity.

I understand it would come with risk and baggage - but on paper it seems to make a ton of sense. That said, I don't think there's any reason to eschew the known commodity in Brock for the unknown when the downside could be so much worse with somebody else.

[Cugel]

1.) I think there is a 99% probability that we re-sign Brock, likely somewhere in the $11-$15mil/yr range, give or take some depending on guarantees and up front money.

2.) I think people have been too quick to throw out the baby with the bathwater with RGIII. I think he has been humbled, he has had a chance to get healthier again, and he would be a good fit for a misdirection/bootlegging system like Kubiak's. Let's not forget he was offensive rookie of the year before that devastating injury.

Looking around the league, it's hard to envision a better fit for him than this system, learning under someone like Kubiak who has such great knowledge of that position. Plus he was a fan of the Broncos growing up, married a girl from Greeley, and would likely be hungry to work for a new opportunity.

I understand it would come with risk and baggage - but on paper it seems to make a ton of sense. That said, I don't think there's any reason to eschew the known commodity in Brock for the unknown when the downside could be so much worse with somebody else.

HELL no to RG III! I'd say there's ZERO chance he's coming here.

Just imagine the conversation between John Elway, Kubiak and Mike Shanahan.


Elway: "Hello Coach Shanahan, this is John Elway here and I've got Gary on the line. We were thinking of signing RG III to play QB for us and wanted to get your first-hand experience of what it's like to coach him."

Shanny: "Oh God John! You can't be serious! He's a locker room cancer, he wants to go his own way, doesn't want to listen to coaching. I can't tell you all the headaches he caused me. I think I'm a pretty easy guy to get along with as you both know, but RGIII, nobody can work with that guy! He got me fired!

Just take it from me: "run silent, run deep, run like a road-side taco through a first time tourist in Mexico, but RUN away from RG III!"

John Elway: "Wow. Ok. Nice talking to you coach."

Shanny: "Any time John. Great talking to you and glad I could be of help."

[Buff]

HELL no to RG III! I'd say there's ZERO chance he's coming here.

Just imagine the conversation between John Elway, Kubiak and Mike Shanahan.

I think my 1% chance is closer to accurate. Elway values talent.

[Northman]

The problem with RGIII isnt his character in my opinion, its just his execution and ability to read plays correctly. He had one good year but so did Derek Anderson when he played for the Browns. While RGIII has some athleticism and a good arm it wont mean he can diagnose and understand the offense to actually run it consistently. I think once teams started to get film on RGIII is when the problems started to arise and then the injuries only further drove his stock down. As with guys like Cutler you can have all the talent in the world but if you cant get it right between the ears than its nothing but a waste.

[TXBRONC]

I'm not arguing that he must suck. The Broncos were quite happy with his development, his temperament and work ethic. My post was simply to point out that he's still a rookie, and a rookie is going to get schooled by veteran DL and that will happen again in 2016.

Don't interpret my remarks as predicting that he'll be a failure. We can't know that and it doesn't look like he is so far. It's just going to be a rough adjustment period.

I understand he's still inexperienced put I don't if you put in the category of rookie because he'll be going through his second camp.

[sneakers]

I think RGIII is intriguing, I think he had done a lot of growing up in the last 2 season, and will be really hungry to prove himself. He still has that arm, and those legs

[TXBRONC]

I think RGIII is intriguing, I think he had done a lot of growing up in the last 2 season, and will be really hungry to prove himself. He still has that arm, and those legs

He still a spread option quarterback and I would rather have Osweiler.

[Joel]

Easily the best part:


Just imagine the conversation between John Elway, Kubiak and Mike Shanahan.

Shanny: "Oh God John! You can't be serious! He's a locker room cancer, he wants to go his own way, doesn't want to listen to coaching. I can't tell you all the headaches he caused me. I think I'm a pretty easy guy to get along with as you both know, but RGIII, nobody can work with that guy! He got me fired!
Elway: "Like you easily got along with firing Reeves—even manipulated me into HELPING? Thanks, coach, I understand perfectly now; I bet Gary remembers, too." ;)

[The Glue Factory]

Elway: "Hello Coach Shanahan,"

No need to go any further. Elway will NEVER go there.

There's a reason why Elway was non-existent around Dove Valley (and turned down partial ownership of the franchise) in the years between his retirement and Shanahan's departure.

[artie_dale]

The part of the problem that make him suck as NFL isn't his knee, but what between his ears.

I agree with this. So, could Michael Vick have been a better QB had he not had the mentality that he didn't think he needed to improve and solely relied on his athleticism? The ONLY reason I'm using Vick as a comparison is because I personally think RGIII has the same one as he entered the NFL. Snider only fueled that thought of himself and it ruined any chance Shanny had at pointing him in a better direction.

Vick didn't realize that was a mistake until of course, the world came crashing down around him.

RGIII is still very young and could be molded into a better person and better QB IF he is also humble (which I do not know if he is, and he surely wasn't while he was in Wash as the starter).

Need an excellent locker room, good coach (Kubes inspires) and a good GM that demands that in his player's character.

But, RGIII may very well be incapable of doing that anyways... I would hope every young person is capable of it at some point in their life.

[artie_dale]

Any team willing to give Brock 20 mill after 7 games where he was promising but far from great, well it goes to show the very reason that team has probably sucked for a very long time.

But that's all it would take to lose Brock to free agency. We all know there are teams out there that are very capable of throwing that wrench in our gears. So, if Cleveland did that, RGIII would likely come at a much cheaper price unless the Rams get in the bidding war for him because they are in need of a QB too.

[artie_dale]

Just texted to me: #Broncos discussing possibility of RG3 if money gets prohibitive to keep Osweiler.

https://twitter.com/AllbrightNFL/status/699373621303574530

[artie_dale]

New news (to me).

http://www.milehighreport.com/2016/2/15/11003628/rumor-broncos-are-enamored-with-quarterback-prospect-dak-prescott

On Dak Prescott:

According to Charlie Campbell of WalterFootball.com, the Denver Broncos are "enamored" with quarterback prospect Dak Prescott. They expect him to be "in play" for the Broncos during the second- day of the draft.

On Brock $$$ talks:

Campbell says the Broncos want to sign Osweiler to a three-year deal worth about $10M per season while Osweiler is looking for $12M per season. The Broncos would like Osweiler back, but Denver Broncos General Manager has proven to not overpay or budge from an offer.

[Northman]

On Brock $$$ talks:

I will be surprised if they dont give him the $12 as its actually lower than i thought it would be from Oz's camp.

[NightTerror218]

The Broncos have I think $20 million in cap space before releasing anyone on the books. That is almost enough alone to get Malik and Oz at $10 million next season if all guarenteed not counting additional incentives (dalton has $10 million annual salary). Manning retiring will free up $19 million at $2.5 M dead money. That will cover Von. Restructure Clady and Ware could free up enough to resign our RFA and cheap FA. Increase in NFL cap $10M will be able to help fill the roster and and leave money for draft class.

Denver is going into this off season with $30 million right off the bat. Manning retire and its up to $49 million. Oz and Malik will be able to stay if they are not asking too much. After that is is about freeing up space and see who they can keep. It is obvious those 2 are the top priorities outside of von who will be franchise tagged.

I honestly think that the only reason Elway is working to keep Malik is because he is important to the Dline and because increase in cap gives him the money to do so.

[TXBRONC]

I will be surprised if they dont give him the $12 as its actually lower than i thought it would be from Oz's camp.

I could see this happening but Elway might want an extra year there.

[Cugel]

The Broncos have I think $20 million in cap space before releasing anyone on the books. That is almost enough alone to get Malik and Oz at $10 million next season if all guarenteed not counting additional incentives (dalton has $10 million annual salary). Manning retiring will free up $19 million at $2.5 M dead money. That will cover Von. Restructure Clady and Ware could free up enough to resign our RFA and cheap FA. Increase in NFL cap $10M will be able to help fill the roster and and leave money for draft class.

Denver is going into this off season with $30 million right off the bat. Manning retire and its up to $49 million. Oz and Malik will be able to stay if they are not asking too much. After that is is about freeing up space and see who they can keep. It is obvious those 2 are the top priorities outside of von who will be franchise tagged.

I honestly think that the only reason Elway is working to keep Malik is because he is important to the Dline and because increase in cap gives him the money to do so.

The Broncos have $8 M before releasing Peyton Manning (http://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space).

Here are the actual numbers: Cap Space:$8,161,005 Team Salary Cap: $154,300,000 Active Cap Spending: $145,212,357 Dead Money for players not on the team: $926,638 (this will increase by $2 M when they refuse to exercise Peyton's option in March)

Then they save $17 M extra. His $19 M - the $2 M cap hit for not renewing his option. At that point they will have $25 M under the cap. Not a lot when you consider Von Miller alone will require about $10 M extra, and they have Osweiler, Malik and 15 other FAs to consider. I have no idea how they get everybody under the cap.

[wayninja]

Am I early enough to mention that Tebow is available? He's won more games for the broncos than Brock. Just sayin is all. Brock can learn from him, and stuff.

[NightTerror218]

The Broncos have $8 M before releasing Peyton Manning (http://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space).

Here are the actual numbers: Cap Space:$8,161,005 Team Salary Cap: $154,300,000 Active Cap Spending: $145,212,357 Dead Money for players not on the team: $926,638 (this will increase by $2 M when they refuse to exercise Peyton's option in March)

Then they save $17 M extra. His $19 M - the $2 M cap hit for not renewing his option. At that point they will have $25 M under the cap. Not a lot when you consider Von Miller alone will require about $10 M extra, and they have Osweiler, Malik and 15 other FAs to consider. I have no idea how they get everybody under the cap.

Looks like this is missing the rollover money from last season. Spotrac.com has different cap number at $11M

[wayninja]

I bet we can bag Tebow for 1mil a year (or less) and lock up our defense. If this year has proven anything it's that we could have mouthofsouth playing QB and we'd be a contender on the shoulders of the defense alone.

I'm halfway joking... which means I'm halfway serious. Based on the last year, we need a QB that can play at or level with the worst in the NFL, and do so for pennies on the dollar. If Tebow doesn't fit that bill better than anyone else on the market, I'm not sure who does.

[Lancane]

Ninja should be banned from the forum for poor and gross humor!

[wayninja]

Ninja should be banned from the forum for poor and gross humor!

I don't disagree. My attempts at banishment stymie the rules. Hence my name.

Nonetheless, I haven't actually heard a compelling argument to suggest that Tebow (who arguable played better in Denver his final season than Manning did) would be a poor fit for a world class defense. After all, isn't defense attributed to most of his wins? I don't see how we can do worse, statistically than we did this year at the position, and I can see LOTS of ways we can do worse financially at the position.

Sell me or Ban me. Bitch.

[Lancane]

I don't disagree. My attempts at banishment stymie the rules. Hence my name.

Nonetheless, I haven't actually heard a compelling argument to suggest that Tebow (who arguable played better in Denver his final season than Manning did) would be a poor fit for a world class defense. After all, isn't defense attributed to most of his wins? I don't see how we can do worse, statistically than we did this year at the position, and I can see LOTS of ways we can do worse financially at the position.

Sell me or Ban me. Bitch.

Sadly, as I explained in another thread, this year is unique, a rarity unseen. No team in the modern era has won a championship having a lower ranked offense not to mention with one offensive touchdown scored in the big game. And no defensive juggernaut has won back to back since the 70's...even then they're offense was better the ours. Think about it, our backup quarterback was better then our starter who threw more interceptions then anyone else in the same span in the league, how many miraculous turnovers or last minute drives won our games...this was destiny at it's finest, a phenomenon so rare it shocked the league. We pimp slapped the world camps and two of the most explosive teams in the NFL like no other team in modern history. Chances of repeating with the offense as is or worse is less then 14.5%, no...we need to fix the offense and I would expect Elway to trade multiple picks and players to draft Wentz before ever looking at Tebow and that circus ever again.

[wayninja]

Sadly, as I explained in another thread, this year is unique, a rarity unseen. No team in the modern era has won a championship having a lower ranked offense not to mention with one offensive touchdown scored in the big game. And no defensive juggernaut has won back to back since the 70's...even then they're offense was better the ours. Think about it, our backup quarterback was better then our starter who threw more interceptions then anyone else in the same span in the league, how many miraculous turnovers or last minute drives won our games...this was destiny at it's finest, a phenomenon so rare it shocked the league. We pimp slapped the world camps and two of the most explosive teams in the NFL like no other team in modern history. Chances of repeating with the offense as is or worse is less then 14.5%, no...we need to fix the offense and I would expect Elway to trade multiple picks and players to draft Wentz before ever looking at Tebow and that circus ever again.

I don't know who "wentz" is. I assume it's a college thing, which I'm loath to even admit that I know such a thing exists.

Nonetheless, your argument is precipitated on the fact that we can't have this bad an offense and still expect to repeat even with a defensive "juggernaut". I'd counter that it's almost impossible (at least statistically) for our offense to be much worse than it was this year, hence, a Tebow led Broncos would likely be much better than we were this year at a deep price discount, allowing us to keep our "juggernaut". I mean, do you want Malik, Trevathan, et al to walk? Do you want some money to fix our OL?

Well, a cheap QB is the answer to all that. Sell the farm and those same concerns about our OL in 2015, become the same concerns in 2016 minus some Defensive studs.

I'm just sayin', is all.

"Wentz" may be a fine backup to Tebow.

[Lancane]

I don't know who "wentz" is. I assume it's a college thing, which I'm loath to even admit that I know such a thing exists.

Nonetheless, your argument is precipitated on the fact that we can't have this bad an offense and still expect to repeat even with a defensive "juggernaut". I'd counter that it's almost impossible (at least statistically) for our offense to be much worse than it was this year, hence, a Tebow led Broncos would likely be much better than we were this year at a deep price discount, allowing us to keep our "juggernaut". I mean, do you want Malik, Trevathan, et al to walk? Do you want some money to fix our OL?

Well, a cheap QB is the answer to all that. Sell the farm and those same concerns about our OL in 2015, become the same concerns in 2016 minus some Defensive studs.

I'm just sayin', is all.

"Wentz" may be a fine backup to Tebow.

10 mil. - 12 mil. on a starting quarterback is rather cheap considering the makeup of the league, by the way Wentz is likely to be a Top 5 pick and will earn more then Brock in the short term of his rookie deal.

Another thing to consider, the Broncos have not won an AFC Championship (since 79') or a Super Bowl title without a first overall pick under center...just food for thought.

[wayninja]

10 mil. - 12 mil. on a starting quarterback is rather cheap considering the makeup of the league, by the way Wentz is likely to be a Top 5 pick and will earn more then Brock in the short term of his rookie deal.

Another thing to consider, the Broncos have not won an AFC Championship (since 79') or a Super Bowl title without a first overall pick under center...just food for thought.

Again, no idea who this "Wentz" character is. How many NFL games has he won? Is it more than Tebow? If not, I would submit that Tebow (who would likely play for 1mil/year), has more wins?

An interesting stat you posted. Although I'm not sure how much relevance it has. If you take just the broncos history out of it, and focus on the league as a whole, the stat seems much less impressive. At best it's a statistical curiosity that it's plagued the Broncos for so long, so much so that I'd say we are due to break that mold... with Tebow.

Just sayin' is all.

I still think we can win this.

[TXBRONC]

Am I early enough to mention that Tebow is available? He's won more games for the broncos than Brock. Just sayin is all. Brock can learn from him, and stuff.

Ninja please don't take this the wrong but please shut up. :D

[TXBRONC]

10 mil. - 12 mil. on a starting quarterback is rather cheap considering the makeup of the league, by the way Wentz is likely to be a Top 5 pick and will earn more then Brock in the short term of his rookie deal.

Another thing to consider, the Broncos have not won an AFC Championship (since 79') or a Super Bowl title without a first overall pick under center...just food for thought.

Denver had never won a Super Bowl by scoring less than 30 points until they beat the Panthers.

[Northman]

Ninja please don't take this the wrong but please shut up. :D

Tx...please please dont quote him.....

[TXBRONC]

Tx...please please dont quote him.....

Since you asked nice I wil do so.

[Cugel]

Sadly, as I explained in another thread, this year is unique, a rarity unseen. No team in the modern era has won a championship having a lower ranked offense not to mention with one offensive touchdown scored in the big game. And no defensive juggernaut has won back to back since the 70's...even then they're offense was better the ours. Think about it, our backup quarterback was better then our starter who threw more interceptions then anyone else in the same span in the league, how many miraculous turnovers or last minute drives won our games...this was destiny at it's finest, a phenomenon so rare it shocked the league. We pimp slapped the world camps and two of the most explosive teams in the NFL like no other team in modern history. Chances of repeating with the offense as is or worse is less then 14.5%, no...we need to fix the offense and I would expect Elway to trade multiple picks and players to draft Wentz before ever looking at Tebow and that circus ever again.

I would be surprised if they let Osweiler go, and even if they did, shocked if they managed to somehow trade up in the first round from 32nd to the top 5. Just think how many points that is: the 32nd pick is worth 590 and the #5 pick is worth 1700. The Broncos 64th pick is worth 270 and their 96th pick is worth 116.

In short, the Broncos entire draft wouldn't remotely be enough to make such a move, not to mention that nobody in the top 5 wants to trade all the way to the bottom of the 1st round.

Multiple first round picks from a SB champion probably wouldn't be enough. The likelihood obviously is that this Broncos team is a 10-12 win team next year, which depreciates their draft picks for future years as well.

If they find a QB somewhere in the draft it's likely to be a 2nd round pick, maybe a 3rd. That would make sense to get a developmental player to groom behind Osweiler for a year or two. That would be a clear sign to Osweiler that if he doesn't play well they could be grooming his replacement. If he does, then they spent a 2nd round pick, but it was such a late 2nd rounder as to be almost a 3rd round pick. And there aren't many openings on a SB Championship roster for draft picks anyway.

How many draft picks make this team? Two? Three?

Meanwhile, the mocks I've seen have Wenz going to Cleveland #2 overall. If so, there's ZERO chance anybody but the Titans could draft him, because Cleveland would not entertain any offers for "their franchise QB." No way.

In that case, for anybody to slip ahead of Cleveland and get Wenz would require trading up all the way to #1.

Of course, if the Browns wanted Jared Goff instead, Wenz could fall to the Rams at #15, which would only require trading from #32 to #13 (Eagles). (#14 Raiders can't trade with Broncos).

That's still a tall order. #13 is worth 1150, which is probably still more than the Broncos entire draft. And they'd have to want to trade down that far, which they probably don't.

[Simple Jaded]

If Kubiak wanted Tyrod Taylor, for some God awful reason, why wouldn't RG be an option?

[Simple Jaded]

I bet we can bag Tebow for 1mil a year (or less) and lock up our defense. If this year has proven anything it's that we could have mouthofsouth playing QB and we'd be a contender on the shoulders of the defense alone.

I'm halfway joking... which means I'm halfway serious. Based on the last year, we need a QB that can play at or level with the worst in the NFL, and do so for pennies on the dollar. If Tebow doesn't fit that bill better than anyone else on the market, I'm not sure who does.

Jamarcus Russell, for starters.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

If Kubiak wanted Tyrod Taylor, for some God awful reason, why wouldn't RG be an option?

Because Taylor is a better football player?

[Lancane]

If Kubiak wanted Tyrod Taylor, for some God awful reason, why wouldn't RG be an option?

Has anyone pulling for RGIII actually watched him since that first season? He forced Shanahan to develop a hybrid scheme as Kubiak had to do for Manning, and we saw how that worked. Since his injury his mobility has been shot and he's had to learn to rely on the pocket in which he has been terrible from. Not to mention Washington's offense is slighlty similar to a WCO and is a Pro-Style Offense, and he couldn't even beat out Cousins who two regimes have tried to replace him with, add in character concerns, well...

[Simple Jaded]

I'm not debating who's better, I'm just saying both have similar background.

I couldn't possibly care less about the character issues, I don't want either of them but I'll take the head case if the head case can play.

Btw, I'll take both over Cousins any day.

Christian Hackenburg, just sayin.

[wayninja]

Ninja please don't take this the wrong but please shut up. :D

Why? You guys are talking about RG3 and Tyrod Taylor et al. I think it's appropriate.

Am I missing something, or did we just win the superbowl with the worst offense we've had in a decade?

[Northman]

Why? You guys are talking about RG3 and Tyrod Taylor et al. I think it's appropriate.

Am I missing something, or did we just win the superbowl with the worst offense we've had in a decade?

With a very green Oline and a very banged up vet QB that is kind of expected. Tebow would of wilted far worse behind this Oline compared to the one he had a few years back.

[wayninja]

With a very green Oline and a very banged up vet QB that is kind of expected. Tebow would of wilted far worse behind this Oline compared to the one he had a few years back.

Our offense under Brock wasn't Stellar. You can blame the O-line if you want, the fact is that our offense was terrible. And if you are discussing QB castoffs that cost double digit millions, I'm not entirely sure why we can't discuss he who shall not be named.

It's easy to dismiss him as "oh, well he'd clearly be worse". I'm not convinced that's true. We sucked on offense. Badly.

With an o-line that struggles, I'd rather see someone more resilient under center, and if he can play cheap, all the better.

I'm also getting a bit tired of the "banged up" theory. It's just such a convenient cover. When not "banged up" our offense didn't fare much better. The only marked improvement was less interceptions, but I have to think that was also made a priority once Manning went back in.

Look, the fact remains that Manning in 2015 was worse than Tebow in 2011. That's just how the numbers are. And we still won the superbowl.

It's not an unfair question/proposition.

[Northman]

Look, the fact remains that Manning in 2015 was worse than Tebow in 2011. That's just how the numbers are. And we still won the superbowl.

It's not an unfair question/proposition.

But it is when you are pining for a guy who cannot even make it as a third stringer. Manning was bad because of his age and he has a serious injury that wasnt even fully healed. The type of injury he has doesnt get fixed in 6 weeks. It helped him rest but it was never fully healed so the banged up theory does play a role for a guy his age. Brock may not be the answer but im always baffled how some of you guys think that Tebow is the answer when every other team in the NFL knows he cant do it. Your question or proposition would have merit if Tebow was actually even in the league and backing somebody up but even thats not the case. I know its hard for you guys to grasp but there is a reason why no one is keeping him on their squads, he just cant play the position man. Simple as that.

[wayninja]

But it is when you are pining for a guy who cannot even make it as a third stringer. Manning was bad because of his age and he has a serious injury that wasnt even fully healed. The type of injury he has doesnt get fixed in 6 weeks. It helped him rest but it was never fully healed so the banged up theory does play a role for a guy his age. Brock may not be the answer but im always baffled how some of you guys think that Tebow is the answer when every other team in the NFL knows he cant do it. Your question or proposition would have merit if Tebow was actually even in the league and backing somebody up but even thats not the case. I know its hard for you guys to grasp but there is a reason why no one is keeping him on their squads, he just cant play the position man. Simple as that.

I'm not pining for him. I'm not pining for any of the available guys. But if Brock wants too much, I'd rather go the cheaper option and try to guarantee the defense sticks together as much as possible.

If he can't play the position, Manning couldn't play either this year. Except he did. It's not a question of what if. It happened.

If Brock wants, let's say 15 million and walks, what options are you entertaining? Foles? RG3? Cap?

Seriously, all those guys will be WAY more expensive than tebow and I'd submit they aren't going to perform WAY better. Just my 2 cents. I don't seriously think it will happen, but I think it's worth talking about.

[Ravage!!!]

I think that's absolutely ridiculous. No top defense throughout NFL's history has repeated, and those defenses were top defenses because their offenses coudn't score. Guess how quickly they were back in contention? The Bears (greatest defense ever) didn't see another Super Bowl for 21 years, and lost because of their crappy QB. The Ravens didn't go back for another 12 years, and even then they had to pay a 'decent' QB to get there. The Bucs? We know they haven't sniffed since having that top defense.

it's ridiculously HARD to build a team around a crappy QB like Tebow. It's why teams continue to draft QBs high, and spend money on "hopes"..because the pay off is so much better and SOOO much easier than trying to build a team that can make up for a shitty QB. It's why we don't see teams win the Super Bowl on defense alone, very often. It's very rare...especially in a league/sport that is built sooooo much around making the offense score points.

The mere thought of trying to 'keep the defense' and "just hire a QB like Tebow".. its taking this team HUGE steps back-wards. We are MUCH better off keeping 2/3rds of this defense and paying the QB. The replacements on defense, mixed with the guys we have, would be better than the CRAP we would be putting behind center...and the position THEY would be playing, isn't considered to be the MOST IMPORTANT position in professional sports for a team.

[TXBRONC]

Why? You guys are talking about RG3 and Tyrod Taylor et al. I think it's appropriate.

Am I missing something, or did we just win the superbowl with the worst offense we've had in a decade?

Yes Denver just won the Super Bowl with a make-shift offensive line but, it was bad because inexperience and injury. If were to get RGIII I'm not sure I don't see that resolving anything.

Btw in my earlier post I was kidding if it came off strong I apologize.

[TXBRONC]

I'm not pining for him. I'm not pining for any of the available guys. But if Brock wants too much, I'd rather go the cheaper option and try to guarantee the defense sticks together as much as possible.

If he can't play the position, Manning couldn't play either this year. Except he did. It's not a question of what if. It happened.

If Brock wants, let's say 15 million and walks, what options are you entertaining? Foles? RG3? Cap?

Seriously, all those guys will be WAY more expensive than tebow and I'd submit they aren't going to perform WAY better. Just my 2 cents. I don't seriously think it will happen, but I think it's worth talking about.

From what we know Osweiler's asking is in the ball park of what we've heard that Elway is offering.

[Northman]

I'm not pining for him. I'm not pining for any of the available guys. But if Brock wants too much, I'd rather go the cheaper option and try to guarantee the defense sticks together as much as possible.

If he can't play the position, Manning couldn't play either this year. Except he did. It's not a question of what if. It happened.

If Brock wants, let's say 15 million and walks, what options are you entertaining? Foles? RG3? Cap?

Seriously, all those guys will be WAY more expensive than tebow and I'd submit they aren't going to perform WAY better. Just my 2 cents. I don't seriously think it will happen, but I think it's worth talking about.

Well, but if you are going to go with a cheaper guy than at least go with someone who is on a roster somewhere. I know there is a running joke by throwing Tebow's name out there but the guy isnt even in the league so im really not sure what the fascination is with him anymore.

[wayninja]

Well, but if you are going to go with a cheaper guy than at least go with someone who is on a roster somewhere. I know there is a running joke by throwing Tebow's name out there but the guy isnt even in the league so im really not sure what the fascination is with him anymore.

If he's on a roster somewhere and not a UFA, not sure that "cheaper" number holds.

Still not sure why my choices are another scrub playing for another team or ****. There's a reason why Tebow is better than most of those guys, IMO, even if others (even coaches) disagree with me. I'm ok with that.

[Cugel]

If he's on a roster somewhere and not a UFA, not sure that "cheaper" number holds.

Still not sure why my choices are another scrub playing for another team or ****. There's a reason why Tebow is better than most of those guys, IMO, even if others (even coaches) disagree with me. I'm ok with that.

I wonder how long the last-ditch Tebowites are going to hold onto his jock? Tebow is a worthless failure who washed out of the league and couldn't stick with 3 different teams after Denver. Proven failure whose career has been finished for several years now, yet the hard-core Tebow apologists just refuse to accept reality.

They're just like flat-earthers. Can't get them to see reason. :coffee:

But we can insist that you keep your idiotic obsessions to yourself and just shut up about Tebow. He's not on the Broncos and not an NFL player so we need a rule on these forums that constant whinging about Tebow is to be considered trolling.

[BroncoJoe]

I wonder how long the last-ditch Tebowites are going to hold onto his jock? Tebow is a worthless failure who washed out of the league and couldn't stick with 3 different teams after Denver. Proven failure whose career has been finished for several years now, yet the hard-core Tebow apologists just refuse to accept reality.

They're just like flat-earthers. Can't get them to see reason. :coffee:

But we can insist that you keep your idiotic obsessions to yourself and just shut up about Tebow. He's not on the Broncos and not an NFL player so we need a rule on these forums that constant whinging about Tebow is to be considered trolling.

That's just stupid. Especially considering a good portion of your own posts.

[wayninja]

I wonder how long the last-ditch Tebowites are going to hold onto his jock? Tebow is a worthless failure who washed out of the league and couldn't stick with 3 different teams after Denver. Proven failure whose career has been finished for several years now, yet the hard-core Tebow apologists just refuse to accept reality.

They're just like flat-earthers. Can't get them to see reason. :coffee:

But we can insist that you keep your idiotic obsessions to yourself and just shut up about Tebow. He's not on the Broncos and not an NFL player so we need a rule on these forums that constant whinging about Tebow is to be considered trolling.

Hey cugel. Go **** yourself. I'll say any goddamn thing I please, thank you very much.

If you don't like the "whinging" go "whing" about it to a mod and save yourself the embarrassment of trying to back seat mod a ridiculously stupid rule.

[TXBRONC]

If he's on a roster somewhere and not a UFA, not sure that "cheaper" number holds.

Still not sure why my choices are another scrub playing for another team or ****. There's a reason why Tebow is better than most of those guys, IMO, even if others (even coaches) disagree with me. I'm ok with that.

You're obviously entitled to hold that pov but, Tebow was any good he would be in the NFL.

Honestly I think Osweiler is going to get re-signed that will be the end it.

[Simple Jaded]

Tebow sucks, dude can't earn a backup job, this is not the kind of starting QB you defend a WORLD Championship with.

Why do you guys do this to yourselves?

By that I don't mean setting yourself and Tebow up for ridicule, I mean why do you keep believing in a fairy tale?

Elvis is dead, Tupac is too, there's no such thing as Sasquatch.......and Tim Tebow is a horrible talent.

[wayninja]

He's a good QB for the price. I don't think that's a fairy tale. Especially given the level of QB play this world championship team saw this year.

It's not a fairy tale. A fairytale goes something like "We'd never have won the superbowl with this defense and Tebow as QB". Yeah, that's a fairy tale.

Feel free to ridicule, just don't try to censor me.

[NightTerror218]

Manning make up your damn mind FFS.

I think Elway will give him the rest of the week to make up mind. 2 weeks until FA and Manning's salary is fully guarenteed.

[Simple Jaded]

He's not a good QB at any price.

Tebow has never come close to the level of QB play the Broncos got. . .ever, got, really.

I mean, other than the level of QB play they got when Tebow was playing QB.

To defend their WORLD Championship the Broncos have to be even better than they were last year, Tebow represents a massive downgrade. So if you're of the belief that it's possible to win it all with a player like Tebow, why not just draft a QB? Or go with Siemian?

[TXBRONC]

He's not a good QB at any price.

Tebow has never come close to the level of QB play the Broncos got. . .ever, got, really.

I mean, other than the level of QB play they got when Tebow was playing QB.

To defend their WORLD Championship the Broncos have to be even better than they were last year, Tebow represents a massive downgrade. So if you're of the belief that it's possible to win it all with a player like Tebow, why not just draft a QB? Or go with Siemian?

If he was a good quarterback at any price he would be on someone's roster.

It's been mentioned before, you can look any of teams like the Ravens and the Buccaneers those teams had great defenses. Each team won the Super Bowl with at best an journeyman starting quarterback but neither team repeated. Is purely because they didn't have a better quarterback behind center? Probably not but it was more than likely a huge contributing factor.

[wayninja]

He's not a good QB at any price.

Tebow has never come close to the level of QB play the Broncos got. . .ever, got, really.

I mean, other than the level of QB play they got when Tebow was playing QB.



To defend their WORLD Championship the Broncos have to be even better than they were last year, Tebow represents a massive downgrade. So if you're of the belief that it's possible to win it all with a player like Tebow, why not just draft a QB? Or go with Siemian?

Don't need to use a draft pick if you don't need to use a draft pick.

And sorry, but Tebow played world better in 2011 than Manning did in 2015. I was given numbers to justify how bad tebow was. Those same numbers show way more TD's and way fewer interceptions.

More TD's and fewer interceptions with a worldclass defense sounds good to me.

I'm fine with giving Siemian a shot, but we won games with Tebow and good defense, I'm not sure where the downgrade is exactly. But whatever, I'm not arguing, it's just my opinion. I realize the vitriol that even bringing up his name brings.

[TXBRONC]

Don't need to use a draft pick if you don't need to use a draft pick.

And sorry, but Tebow played world better in 2011 than Manning did in 2015. I was given numbers to justify how bad tebow was. Those same numbers show way more TD's and way fewer interceptions.

More TD's and fewer interceptions with a worldclass defense sounds good to me.

I'm fine with giving Siemian a shot, but we won games with Tebow and good defense, I'm not sure where the downgrade is exactly. But whatever, I'm not arguing, it's just my opinion. I realize the vitriol that even bringing up his name brings.

I guess it's a matter perspective but I wouldn't say that Tebow played world's better than Manning. If he had Denver makes a much deeper run in the playoffs than did and they don't get the snot beat out of them in New England.

[Ravage!!!]

We took a chance on a 37 yr old QB coming off a season missed because of multiple neck surgeries for more than the reason that it was Peyton Manning. If we had a GOOD QB sitting behind center, we wouldn't have made the run for him.

Tebow's play is what lost him a job in Denver. It's what lost him a job with the Jets. It's what didn't get him a job in NE (the place where people INSISTED that if a team could use a guy like TT), and its the reason he's not on a roster now.

You aren't giving Manning's play calling, defense reading, and protection adjustments any credence and acknowledgment when trying to suggest that TT could have played as well as Manning through the playoffs. Sorry, but that just sounds ridiculous.

Tebow isn't good for ANY price, which is why he doesn't even have a back-up role in the NFL. It was embarrassing for the Broncos to draft Tebow. It would be HUMILIATING for the Broncos to win a Super Bowl and then go, sewer level low, and hire a QB like TT to lead your defending championship team.

I'm honestly confused that the suggestion from anyone other than Falco, would arise.

[artie_dale]

Yeah, I have to agree with Ravage. The entire offense had to be revamped to suit Tebow. And even then, Tebow couldn't read defenses and the team resorted to funnel the offense toward's Tebow's personal strengths (running). At least the rest of the offense played a role with Manning under center, even when he lost velocity, he still found ways to beat defenses. Tebow couldn't do that. Tebow relied on the play callers and his blockers (his WRs were considered blockers more than they were WRs).

No thanks. Tebow is what he is... and that doesn't included NFL QB.

[MOtorboat]

Lol.

[EastCoastBronco]

No matter how far the thread travels.
No matter where the thread takes us.
It always leads back to the same place...

8649

[artie_dale]

No matter how far the thread travels.
No matter where the thread takes us.
It always leads back to the same place...

8649

Dammit. That's a true statement.

[chazoe60]

Why the **** are people still talking about Tebow?

[artie_dale]

Why the **** are people still talking about Tebow?

I wouldn't be opposed to a 1 month banning for a person who brings up Tebow in either a positive or negative light. I mean, unless he makes an NFL roster, then I think it'd be okay to talk about him.

[Northman]

I wouldn't be opposed to a 1 month banning for a person who brings up Tebow in either a positive or negative light. I mean, unless he makes an NFL roster, then I think it'd be okay to talk about him.

Bit extreme.

[artie_dale]

Bit extreme.

Aight... one week.

[BroncoJoe]

Aight... one week.

Or, we could force them to watch his "highlights" for three hours straight.

kVNMDdMNvDE

[wayninja]

Yeah, I have to agree with Ravage. The entire offense had to be revamped to suit Tebow. And even then, Tebow couldn't read defenses and the team resorted to funnel the offense toward's Tebow's personal strengths (running). At least the rest of the offense played a role with Manning under center, even when he lost velocity, he still found ways to beat defenses. Tebow couldn't do that. Tebow relied on the play callers and his blockers (his WRs were considered blockers more than they were WRs).

No thanks. Tebow is what he is... and that doesn't included NFL QB.

Maybe we should design our offense around throwing interceptions? Worked this year.

[artie_dale]

Maybe we should design our offense around throwing interceptions? Worked this year.

Oh please. With Peyton and Brock under center, the opposing defense still had to play honest against the run and the pass. We'd be one dimensional with Tebow. This was Manning's worst year, ever. But, he's done enough good throughout his career that forced opposing teams to not underestimate him. Apparently, that was enough to get us where we ended up. Just his pre-snap intelligence alone keeps defenses on their heals. That plus our amazing offensive line (now I'm being sarcastic like you) was made for just enough.

[Ravage!!!]

Mike Florio talked with John Elway and here are some statements that were made by Elway (these were heard on the radio, so I'm almost exact, but a couple words my be slightly off).

John: Yeah, I talked with Peyton a couple days ago. You know, we are just 2 and a half weeks from the Super Bowl. Everyone wants to know what Peyton is going to do, but he deserves to sit back and enjoy this moment without having to make these kind of decisions. So we are comfortable giving the time he deserves.

FLorio: Manning's salary comes guaranteed here soon. Will you/we know bfore March 9th?

John: Yeah, we will. I'll talk with Peyton in a week to ten days again. But there is plenty of time, and we want to give him the time he deserves to have.

[artie_dale]

Mike Florio talked with John Elway and here are some statements that were made by Elway (these were heard on the radio, so I'm almost exact, but a couple words my be slightly off).

John: Yeah, I talked with Peyton a couple days ago. You know, we are just 2 and a half weeks from the Super Bowl. Everyone wants to know what Peyton is going to do, but he deserves to sit back and enjoy this moment without having to make these kind of decisions. So we are comfortable giving the time he deserves.

FLorio: Manning's salary comes guaranteed here soon. Will you/we know bfore March 9th?

John: Yeah, we will. I'll talk with Peyton in a week to ten days again. But there is plenty of time, and we want to give him the time he deserves to have.

I think Peyton's decision would have come sooner had an article attacking his legacy not come out 2 days after the SB. Hope that asshat Shaun King is fired and that crazy lady gets known for what she really is. Definitely doesn't deserve to have "Dr." as a title.

[Ravage!!!]

Florio said that Elway set the parameters for Brock during the conversation... anywhere between 5-15 million. His sale pitch is basically saying, how much is it worth to you to change personel, change systems, change cities, change coaches and everything else. 2 Million? 3 Million? Is tht worth it to you to simply open the market that you end up going to a team that can hinder your progress. But also said there is NO WAY that they use the franchise tag on Brock (so those thinking that makes sense to do, dont hold your breath, it's not happening).

[Ravage!!!]

I think Peyton's decision would have come sooner had an article attacking his legacy not come out 2 days after the SB. Hope that asshat Shaun King is fired and that crazy lady gets known for what she really is. Definitely doesn't deserve to have "Dr." as a title.

I don't think so. He's said that he has gotten some really good advice from both Elway and Dungy, and they both suggested taking a month to make any decisions. Don't make a decision when the emotions are high. GIve it time. I think the plan was to take that advice and take the month.

[artie_dale]

Florio said that Elway set the parameters for Brock during the conversation... anywhere between 5-15 million. His sale pitch is basically saying, how much is it worth to you to change personel, change systems, change cities, change coaches and everything else. 2 Million? 3 Million? Is tht worth it to you to simply open the market that you end up going to a team that can hinder your progress. But also said there is NO WAY that they use the franchise tag on Brock (so those thinking that makes sense to do, dont hold your breath, it's not happening).

Tagging any players not named Von Miller are not productive whatsoever. Elway is smart that way. More GMs should get some car dealer experience.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Tagging any players not named Von Miller are not productive whatsoever. Elway is smart that way. More GMs should get some car dealer experience.

....or business degrees from Stanford. ;-)

[Simple Jaded]

That's not meant to be vitriol.

It's not a matter of opinion or stats, there are tangible things that Tebow never did that Manning will be able to do until the day he dies, not just the utterly obvious mental but physically too, things like throwing with timing/touch/anticipation/accuracy. There's intangible reasons; leadership, accountability (by that I mean holding teammates accountable) and coaching, that Tebow does not offer.

Forget about Manning being a better QB at 40, there are 40-year-old QB's that never played a down in the NFL that are better than Tim Tebow.

[chazoe60]

We get it jaded. Jesus Christ are we really discussing who is better, an over the hill Manning or a college football analyst? FFS get over it. Tebow can't hurt you anymore jaded and he can't save you anymore Shane.

[Simple Jaded]

We get it jaded. Jesus Christ are we really discussing who is better, an over the hill Manning or a college football analyst? FFS get over it. Tebow can't hurt you anymore jaded and he can't save you anymore Shane.

Ninja is being wrong on the Internet, Chaz! Maybe you can just sit back and let it happen but I can not.

[Magnificent Seven]

Keep Brock Osweiler and Trevor Siemian. Sign a veteran quarterback to be Osweiler's back up QB.

[DenBronx]

Nah, we don't need a vet if we have both Brock and Trevor. These guys have it from here. Brocks a vet now in my eyes and he will only get better. We don't need no over the hill Hasselbecks on this team.

[tripp]

So what are the odds looking like here that Brock signs back with us?

I heard if we sign Von to a deal, we have a good to fair chance of signing Brock to a contract before he hits the free agent market. But if we tag Von, we stand a big chance of losing Brock to a scrub team like the Browns who will pay over the top for a QB who shows any form of promise in the future. I also heard Manning retiring or not, doesn't actually affect us signing Brock to a deal or not. I think he's no longer a Bronco regardless come March 9th.

Applying the franchise tag on Von is the obvious decision, but I'm skeptical about our options in the QB position if Brock signs somewhere else.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

So what are the odds looking like here that Brock signs back with us?

I heard if we sign Von to a deal, we have a good to fair chance of signing Brock to a contract before he hits the free agent market. But if we tag Von, we stand a big chance of losing Brock to a scrub team like the Browns who will pay over the top for a QB who shows any form of promise in the future. I also heard Manning retiring or not, doesn't actually affect us signing Brock to a deal or not. I think he's no longer a Bronco regardless come March 9th.

Applying the franchise tag on Von is the obvious decision, but I'm skeptical about our options in the QB position if Brock signs somewhere else.

Brock signing elsewhere would be a bigger loss for him than the Broncos. Monetarily he'll make out better, but no good team will pay him a lot so it will be a bottom dweller like Cleveland. He'll have to change systems and essentially start all over again.

On the other hand, the Broncos could probably roll with Seimian, RG3, or even Ponder and still make the playoffs - especially if we improve the Oline some. Draft a guy like Prescott or Lynch in the 2nd round to groom and we'll be just fine for the future. I like Brock but I'm not enamored with him to the point that if he leaves I'll be heartbroken. I trust in JFE to make the right call on this one.

[pipes]

Brock signing elsewhere would be a bigger loss for him than the Broncos. Monetarily he'll make out better, but no good team will pay him a lot so it will be a bottom dweller like Cleveland. He'll have to change systems and essentially start all over again.

On the other hand, the Broncos could probably roll with Seimian, RG3, or even Ponder and still make the playoffs - especially if we improve the Oline some. Draft a guy like Prescott or Lynch in the 2nd round to groom and we'll be just fine for the future. I like Brock but I'm not enamored with him to the point that if he leaves I'll be heartbroken. I trust in JFE to make the right call on this one.

I know what you're saying, but dear God NOT Ponder!!

[DenBronx]

Anyone that suggests Ponder for starter, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th or even 7th string QB is automatically disqualified from this thread.

[Joel]

Rumor has it Denver needs its best QB less than its SECOND best DE. Siemian must be WAY better at his job than Vance Walker and Antonio Smith are at theirs (though their respective snap counts don't reflect that.)

I expect a cheap signing with starter experience regardless, not to make Oz compete, but avoid what happened to Indy (and nearly to us) last year, Arizona the previous year and Dallas EVERY year. We can't predict next years line quality when two starters on IR, a third's unsigned and the draft's upcoming—but it probably won't be nearly as good as the Cowboys line that barely got a month of play out of its starting QB last year, then failed to win a bad division with the likes of Cassel.

So much insurance can we afford after all this years FAs look under their seats to find an 8-figure contract...?

[tripp]

Wouldn't even be mad if Matt Hasselback was 2nd string QB to Brock. I don't like the idea of RG3 anywhere near this franchise unless he's on the visitors sideline.

I like the idea of Brock coming back to Denver alot, but I'm not married to the idea. Wouldn't mind even seeing Ryan Fitzpatrick taking snaps under center, although it's more than likely he's back with NYJ.

[tripp]

Good read from PFF on Brock Osweiler

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2016/02/29/pro-broncos-should-franchise-tag-osweiler-if-deal-with-miller-is-reached/

[wayninja]

Ninja is being wrong on the Internet, Chaz! Maybe you can just sit back and let it happen but I can not.

My opinion is wrong? That's pretty much par for the course whenever Tebow is brought up. That's what I mean by vitriol.

If only I could see all of the possible alternate realities like some of you guys I wouldn't be so wrong.

And again, it's not just Tebow. I don't really care who we bring in, although Tebow is an interesting choice because of his history here. As long as we don't overpay a mediocre QB and keep the defense together, I don't give a shit who we bring in.

[Cugel]

Having to franchise Von Miller rather than sign him to a new contract prior to the start of FA hurts their efforts to re-sign Osweiler because it immediately raises Von Miller's cap hit for 2016 to $14.4 M, rather than the much lower cap hit it would be if he signed a new contract with a large signing bonus that is pro-rated over the life of the contract.

With a new contract his cap hit for 2016 should be less than $10M.

However, it doesn't make sense for any team to pay Osweiler really big money. Take Cleveland for instance. They have a new coach & GM. Ideally, they would find a future franchise QB in the draft, and sign a cheap veteran to come in and start and play reasonably well for 1 year. That is a rebuilding plan that makes sense.

But, how can any team really be sure Osweiler is going to be your franchise QB after seeing him for 7 games in which he played fairly mediocre football and won 5 of them with one of the best defenses in NFL history?

If Elway re-signs Brock and he tanks, he will not pay any price. Neither he nor Kubiak will lose their jobs over that. Winning the SB will buy Elway at least 5 more years, and he can keep Kubiak or whoever he wants as coach. But, in Cleveland, they have a very short leash. They have to show signs of improvement over the next 2 seasons or they will be gone in 2018.

They can't afford to sign Brock Osweiler to a $17-18M a year contract and have him flame out like Matt Cassel did in KC. You'll notice Bill Polian is no longer the KC GM. Trading for Matt Cassel, and paying him $30 M for 2 seasons, only to see Cassel fail miserably and the team lose, is a big reason why he got fired.

[Ravage!!!]

They will still get a contract done with Miller, and they will still sign Brock.

[Cugel]

They will still get a contract done with Miller, and they will still sign Brock.

I would assume so, but Elway doesn't sound certain:


Elway said he expects to meet with Manning again in the coming days -- the two met this past Tuesday at Elway’s house.

"We'll know when (March 9) gets closer where are (http://espn.go.com/blog/denver-broncos/post/_/id/19095/broncos-want-and-will-try-to-keep-brock-osweiler-but-need-the-art-of-the-deal)," Elway said. "So, we'll see."


"We know where Brock is. Brock knows what we have to offer," Elway said at the combine. "We still have a great deal of interest in Brock. We'd like to do something with Brock."


Elway then was asked whether he has the impression Osweiler would take less to stay in Denver. (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/02/25/elway-hints-at-middle-class-contract-for-osweiler/)

“I think as a quarterback, and I tell you looking it as a quarterback and not looking at it as Brock, and I’m not looking at it from being a G.M. of the Broncos,” Elway said. “But if I look at Brock Osweiler, if I’m in his shoes, I look at a place where I could be successful and in a system that fits me. And I will tell you this now, and I’m putting on my G.M. hat, I think we do have a system that fits Brock very well. So for Brock to have continued success, I don’t think will be, this won’t be his big contract, but this will be a contract where he’ll be able to make very good money and be able to prove himself that could lead to that next big contract.”

That answer means there’s no way the Broncos would use the franchise tag on Osweiler, since it would be the gateway to “his big contract.” Instead, it looks like Denver will offer a short-term deal in that middle-class market and hope for the best.

Elway doesn't know whether Osweiler will wait until FA and then grab the biggest contract - which WON'T be with the Broncos. That much is clear.

The question is whether other teams will bid up to $15 M a year for him, in which Case it looks like Elway will let him walk.

[MOtorboat]

Justin Houston's cap hit is $16.1 million with his new contract. How is Miller's cap hit going to be less than that?

[TXBRONC]

Wouldn't even be mad if Matt Hasselback was 2nd string QB to Brock. I don't like the idea of RG3 anywhere near this franchise unless he's on the visitors sideline.

I like the idea of Brock coming back to Denver alot, but I'm not married to the idea. Wouldn't mind even seeing Ryan Fitzpatrick taking snaps under center, although it's more than likely he's back with NYJ.


I would not like see Fitzpatrick in Denver as starter. Maybe as a back up but that's it.

[tripp]

I would not like see Fitzpatrick in Denver as starter. Maybe as a back up but that's it.

I wouldn't either if we can retain Brock as a QB of the Broncos. But if he goes somewhere else, I'm not seeing any better options. I think he can be a serviceable QB if you limit his role to a game manager.

[Ravage!!!]

I wouldn't either if we can retain Brock as a QB of the Broncos. But if he goes somewhere else, I'm not seeing any better options. I think he can be a serviceable QB if you limit his role to a game manager.

Yeah.. if we can't/don't sign Brock (and we will).... then Fitz appears to be the guy I would want off the FA market that could very well be a good game manager. He would be a 'filler' while we looked for the young dude, but there isn't a FA QB that really lights my fire, either way. Fitz certainly seems to be the best option in that case.

[Ravage!!!]

So Elway isn't coming out and saying "we'll sign Brock, no matter WHAT!!"... and thus, we are to take his comments to heart as if there is 'worry?'

I'm not worried, but as MO mentioned, we also knew that Miller's contract was goign to exceed Houston's anyway. WHy that comes to a 'downer and surprise'....I'm not sure.

[Lancane]

If they can not re-sign Osweiler, then I expect (IMO) that they'll look to a veteran like Hasselbach, Gradkowski or Weeden and they'll draft someone early to compete. Of course, as I've said before...I would not be surprised if Denver traded up to number one for Wentz either.

[Ravage!!!]

If they can not re-sign Osweiler, then I expect (IMO) that they'll look to a veteran like Hasselbach, Gradkowski or Weeden and they'll draft someone early to compete. Of course, as I've said before...I would not be surprised if Denver traded up to number one for Wentz either.

Hasselbach would be the only one on the list...but didn't he just turn 40?? I mean, we coudln't go there. The other two you just mentioned literally sent shivers down my back....and a little bit of puke to escape into my mouth.

I think it would take wayyyy too much to move for Wentz. Elway wouldn't give up the draft for the one guy.

[DenBronx]

If they can not re-sign Osweiler, then I expect (IMO) that they'll look to a veteran like Hasselbach, Gradkowski or Weeden and they'll draft someone early to compete. Of course, as I've said before...I would not be surprised if Denver traded up to number one for Wentz either.


Come on man, do you really think Denver will trade up that far? Maybe top 15-18 to get Goff or Lynch.

[Lancane]

Hasselbach would be the only one on the list...but didn't he just turn 40?? I mean, we coudln't go there. The other two you just mentioned literally sent shivers down my back....and a little bit of puke to escape into my mouth.

I think it would take wayyyy too much to move for Wentz. Elway wouldn't give up the draft for the one guy.

I don't much like the idea either Rav, but that was a big 'if', because Osweiler makes the most sense at this time. As to the other, I think Elway would, remember he forced a trade that brought him to Denver, considered Newton with the pick they used in Miller. He absolutely understands the difference in regards to the level of talent in each round. The Broncos have only found success with an elite QB under center, and it's no secret that they have been big on Wentz for some time. The way I see it is Denver has a lot of young pieces in place, right now the move makes more sense then it would have two or three years ago because the level of talent.

[DenBronx]

Osweiler will only get better and I think he's a better option than a rookie. He's sat behind Manning for 4 years and played pretty good when given the shot, with the exception of the raider game. I know it wasn't all on him but still pissed about that game!

[Ravage!!!]

I don't much like the idea either Rav, but that was a big 'if', because Osweiler makes the most sense at this time. As to the other, I think Elway would, remember he forced a trade that brought him to Denver, considered Newton with the pick they used in Miller. He absolutely understands the difference in regards to the level of talent in each round. The Broncos have only found success with an elite QB under center, and it's no secret that they have been big on Wentz for some time. The way I see it is Denver has a lot of young pieces in place, right now the move makes more sense then it would have two or three years ago because the level of talent.

Yeah.. it's certain that Elway understands the importance of the QB to a team...but there is a HUGE difference between being interested in, and SOOO interested in that they give away so much to move up to get him. We know that Elway was interested in Andrew Luck as well.

So rumors may sound good, and they might help in negotiations with Os, but I just don't see that happening.

It's why I don't see there being any way we let Os go. I've been pretty skeptical of Os before this season, but given the 7 games we saw him play, I believe enough to know that he's the BEST option we have to stay competative. Moving that far up to get Wentz, just isn't going to happen.

[Slick]

Elway won't let the franchise suffer for long with mediocre QB play. If Oz isn't it, he'll find someone who is. This is all going to work itself out.

[BroncoWave]

This draft will be a big litmus test on how Elway feels about Brock. If the reports are true that Elway is enamored with Dak Prescott and we pick him in round 2, then Elway might not be as full of confidence in Brock as he is letting on. And if we were to actually pick a QB in R1 or draft up for one, then it would be a slam dunk that Brock is not the guy.

[Ravage!!!]

This draft will be a big litmus test on how Elway feels about Brock. If the reports are true that Elway is enamored with Dak Prescott and we pick him in round 2, then Elway might not be as full of confidence in Brock as he is letting on. And if we were to actually pick a QB in R1 or draft up for one, then it would be a slam dunk that Brock is not the guy.

I can't see that happening at all if we sign Brock. Would be absolutely foolish to sign a guy to a long-term deal and then turn around and draft that position in the 1st or 2nd round. I can see that happening IF we don't sign Brock, but the decision will be made before the draft.

[MOtorboat]

I can't see that happening at all if we sign Brock. Would be absolutely foolish to sign a guy to a long-term deal and then turn around and draft that position in the 1st or 2nd round. I can see that happening IF we don't sign Brock, but the decision will be made before the draft.

It's exactly what he did with Manning and Osweiler.

[Ravage!!!]

It's exactly what he did with Manning and Osweiler.

Completely different scenario, though. Manning was coming off a completely missed season due to several neck surgeries. Elway was able to see video from his workout sesssions, but he didn't know if Manning was capable..or healthy enough...to make it through a single season. We had to have a plan B, of some kind, if Manning didn't work out. Considering we just shipped off Tebow, having a 'vet' back-up Manning didn't make sense. Plus, if Manning did work out, for how long? Drafting gave us a future plan, working in motion, without passing on Manning.

That's not the same thing as signing your UFA QB to a long term deal and then turning around and drafting a 1st or 2nd round player of the same position. Not at all.

[MOtorboat]

Completely different scenario, though. Manning was coming off a completely missed season due to several neck surgeries. Elway was able to see video from his workout sesssions, but he didn't know if Manning was capable..or healthy enough...to make it through a single season. We had to have a plan B, of some kind, if Manning didn't work out. Considering we just shipped off Tebow, having a 'vet' back-up Manning didn't make sense. Plus, if Manning did work out, for how long? Drafting gave us a future plan, working in motion, without passing on Manning.

That's not the same thing as signing your UFA QB to a long term deal and then turning around and drafting a 1st or 2nd round player of the same position. Not at all.

Is it? It's just insurance. A prospect on a low salary for four years in case the free agent doesn't pan out.

[Ravage!!!]

Is it? It's just insurance. A prospect on a low salary for four years in case the free agent doesn't pan out.

yeah.. it is.

You don't spend a 1st or 2nd pick on insurance for the YOUNG guy you just signed. If you were going to draft a 1st or 2nd round QB...then don't sign the guy to long term deal. Doesn't make sense, and would be a ridiculous waste of resources.

[NightTerror218]

This draft will be a big litmus test on how Elway feels about Brock. If the reports are true that Elway is enamored with Dak Prescott and we pick him in round 2, then Elway might not be as full of confidence in Brock as he is letting on. And if we were to actually pick a QB in R1 or draft up for one, then it would be a slam dunk that Brock is not the guy.

Reports I have heard have talked about how much Broncos want to retain brock. I would not be surprised that they have already had a deal figured out before end of this week.

I have only read 1 report about Prescott and he won't last till end of 2nd.

[MOtorboat]

yeah.. it is.

You don't spend a 1st or 2nd pick on insurance for the YOUNG guy you just signed. If you were going to draft a 1st or 2nd round QB...then don't sign the guy to long term deal. Doesn't make sense, and would be a ridiculous waste of resources.

I don't think it's as different of a scenario as you do.

And finding a good quarterback is always a priority. Over everything.

[Northman]

Completely different scenario, though. Manning was coming off a completely missed season due to several neck surgeries. Elway was able to see video from his workout sesssions, but he didn't know if Manning was capable..or healthy enough...to make it through a single season. We had to have a plan B, of some kind, if Manning didn't work out. Considering we just shipped off Tebow, having a 'vet' back-up Manning didn't make sense. Plus, if Manning did work out, for how long? Drafting gave us a future plan, working in motion, without passing on Manning.

That's not the same thing as signing your UFA QB to a long term deal and then turning around and drafting a 1st or 2nd round player of the same position. Not at all.

Agreed. Drafting Brock was in case Manning couldnt come back from the surgery. If Denver signs Brock i doubt we see a QB drafted any earlier than the 3rd.

[Ravage!!!]

I don't think it's as different of a scenario as you do.

And finding a good quarterback is always a priority. Over everything.

Yes.. an absolutely priority, but the scenarios are completely different. I'll guess we'll see how it works itself out.

[DenBronx]

Well, Bradford just got a new 2 year deal worth 36 mill. This drives the market price UP for Brock. Dammit Eagles!!

[NightTerror218]

Well, Bradford just got a new 2 year deal worth 36 mill. This drives the market price UP for Brock. Dammit Eagles!!

Depends on details of contract.

[Ravage!!!]

Well, Bradford just got a new 2 year deal worth 36 mill. This drives the market price UP for Brock. Dammit Eagles!!

WIth just 26 guaranteed, though. So that's a 13 million dollar a year deal, that COULD be 18 per year. He's had a lot more experience, so I don't think this drives the price up at all.

[NightTerror218]

WIth just 26 guaranteed, though. So that's a 13 million dollar a year deal, that COULD be 18 per year. He's had a lot more experience, so I don't think this drives the price up at all.

He could have $16M million this season salary and $10M next season. The $10M guarenteed could be pro bowl, super bowl, 5000 yard performance or anything that would make sure he is playing well and not easy to reach. Devil is in the details. Could even have something in there that contract is void for next year if injured.

[Traveler]

No freaking way would I pay $18 million per for Osweiler. Just re-sign Jackson and do a proven I deal with RG3 or a stop gap vet and draft another QB.

[DenBronx]

No freaking way would I pay $18 million per for Osweiler. Just re-sign Jackson and do a proven I deal with RG3 or a stop gap vet and draft another QB.


Yeah man, I'm starting to feel that way too, especially after seeing the Bradford deal. I'd love this defense to stay in tact as much as possible.

[Traveler]

Yeah man, I'm starting to feel that way too, especially after seeing the Bradford deal. I'd love this defense to stay in tact as much as possible.

We're talking elite QB money now. Pass on that now and keep the defense together.

[tomjonesrocks]

We'really talking elite QB money now. Pass on that now and keep the defense together.

The Broncos know more what Brock might be worth than anyone. If I were a team I'd take the Broncos letting him shop around or willing to let him go at market price as a being a bit of a red flag.

If that's how this goes.

[elsid13]

Well, Bradford just got a new 2 year deal worth 36 mill. This drives the market price UP for Brock. Dammit Eagles!!

Bradford has long term starting experience and track record, it doesn't effect the Brock deal.

[NightTerror218]

The Broncos know more what Brock might be worth than anyone. If I were a team I'd take the Broncos letting him shop around or willing to let him go at market price as a being a bit of a red flag.

If that's how this goes.

Well the cost of a starting QB is only going to go up unless they are on rookie contracts. A has been vet is more then a lot of starters are getting in other positions like secondary guys.

[Ravage!!!]

We're talking elite QB money now. Pass on that now and keep the defense together.

How is it elite money at 13-16 per year? It's 26 guaranteed over 2 years. Even if he gets the entire 36, that's 18. This doesn't drive the price of Brock up.

[Ravage!!!]

The Broncos know more what Brock might be worth than anyone. If I were a team I'd take the Broncos letting him shop around or willing to let him go at market price as a being a bit of a red flag.

If that's how this goes.

I disagree. I think this is Elway giving Brock every opportunity to see what other teams are willing to ask. That gives us leverage as well.

[Ravage!!!]

Holy crap.. we don't want to 'waste money" on Brock, but willing to waste money on a proven crap QB like RG3??? That makes zero sense.

[MOtorboat]

We're talking elite QB money now. Pass on that now and keep the defense together.

I don't think the Bradford deal is going to have much effect on Osweiler's. The comparison to Foles' deal seem a better starting place and more apt.

[NightTerror218]

I don't think the Bradford deal is going to have much effect on Osweiler's. The comparison to Foles' deal seem a better starting place and more apt.

I think Gingers deal may be the ball park.

[Cugel]

I don't think the Bradford deal is going to have much effect on Osweiler's. The comparison to Foles' deal seem a better starting place and more apt.

Probably right, because the Eagles have seen Bradford for a season in their system. They don't have to guess how well he would adapt to their system, like they would with Osweiler.

And Osweiler has played 7 games. It's a huge risk trying to extrapolate from 7 games in one system, to a full time starter in another system. At least it's a huge risk if you're paying him $15 M a year. That could easily backfire and explode in your face if it turns out Osweiler is mediocre on your team. Now your GM got fired.

[MOtorboat]

I think Gingers deal may be the ball park.

I'm trying to figure out how an agent could get a guy who has started 7 games the same price tag that a four-year starter with a 63 percent win percentage received.

More power to him if he can.

[Cugel]

Holy crap.. we don't want to 'waste money" on Brock, but willing to waste money on a proven crap QB like RG3??? That makes zero sense.

Not unless you're thinking of paying RGIII something between $12-15M a year - which will only happen in RGIII's wet dreams, or possibly on Madden.

It's maybe a question of paying Osweiler $12-15M a year based on his play in 7 games versus paying RGIII maybe $7M or something, and then as a consequence possibly keeping Malik Jackson and Danny Trevathan.

I'm not advocating just letting Osweiler walk. But, from all I'm hearing John Elway has made his plea to Osweiler.

And it went something like this:

"You know you can have success in this system because we just won a SB. If you do well and establish yourself you can count on getting top $ a couple of years from now. You have to decide whether it's worth $2 or $3 M more to go somewhere else where you might not have the same success. We think it's worth a bit of sacrifice to stay here." So they want to pay him $12M a y ear or less, preferrably $10M a year for a 2 year deal with some incentive clauses that could take it up to maybe $17-19 M if he meets his incentives.

That might be a hard sell to Osweiler who wants what he sees other QBs getting. If he really thinks "I'm worth $17-18 M a year guaranteed $", and that's what his agent is telling him, he's not going to stick with the Broncos and sacrifice $2 or $3 M (assuming he could get $14 or $15 M somewhere else).

But, it does look like Elway is prepared to let Osweiler walk if the bidding goes above $12M.

[Lancane]

We're talking elite QB money now. Pass on that now and keep the defense together.

That is not elite money...lol

[Lancane]

Holy crap.. we don't want to 'waste money" on Brock, but willing to waste money on a proven crap QB like RG3??? That makes zero sense.

I whole heartily agree...But don't try to sell that on here Rav. Too many are banking on keeping the defense intact and overpaid, thinking that lightning will strike twice. However, if Osweiler goes elsewhere and finds success and they ink RGIII and he looks as he has, the fans will be quick to turn on Elway, that is the nature of the business. Then media and fans will be squawking for a first round quarterback. This reminds me of the Baltimore Ravens under Billick.

[wayninja]

Ok, I'm on board. We sign Brock and we become instant SB 51 contenders, where before we didn't stand a chance.

[ShaneFalco]

resign tebow. be able to sign malik and Danny t. = profit = Denver Tebow Revival = winning = Kings tiger blood

[Lancane]

Ok, I'm on board. We sign Brock and we become instant SB 51 contenders, where before we didn't stand a chance.

We've always been contenders, give under McDaniels. The problem is that no matter what no defense can stand long as the best and carry the team, Baltimore and Pittsburgh had to learn the hard way eventually drafting Joe and Ben, we may have to as well.

[Lancane]

Bradford has long term starting experience and track record, it doesn't effect the Brock deal.

Wish that was so, but he set the market...which gives Brock more leverage.

[TXBRONC]

Ok, I'm on board. We sign Brock and we become instant SB 51 contenders, where before we didn't stand a chance.

You're on that boat by yourself because no one has said we wouldn't be contenders. People think our chances increase if the offense is improved.

[wayninja]

You're on that boat by yourself because no one has said we wouldn't be contenders. People think our chances increase if the offense is improved.

Actually, you said basically that it was virtually impossible for the best defense to win back to back superbowls. How is that not being a contender?

The difference is, I simply don't think that it's brock or bust when it comes to the offense, no matter how black and white you want to make it.

[Simple Jaded]

I wonder what Kyle Borton is up to these days.

[NightTerror218]

I'm trying to figure out how an agent could get a guy who has started 7 games the same price tag that a four-year starter with a 63 percent win percentage received.

More power to him if he can.

Because gingers agent sucks and did not get him a good deal. That is middle of road deal. $10M a year salary.

[MOtorboat]

Because gingers agent sucks and did not get him a good deal. That is middle of road deal. $10M a year salary.

He's making $16 million per year.

[NightTerror218]

He's making $16 million per year.

Only $13M in 2016 then $15.7M in 2017 and $16M in 2018.

[MOtorboat]

Only $13M in 2016 then $15.7M in 2017 and $16M in 2018.

He signed a 6 year deal for $96 million. That's $16 million a year and that's his cap hit too.

I don't think Osweiler deserves that type of money, but if his agent is that good more power to him.

[Cugel]

We've always been contenders, give under McDaniels. The problem is that no matter what no defense can stand long as the best and carry the team, Baltimore and Pittsburgh had to learn the hard way eventually drafting Joe and Ben, we may have to as well.

It's almost impossible for a good team to draft a franchise QB.

There are reportedly 3 first round QB prospects in this draft: Wenz, Goff and somewhat behind those two, Paxton Lynch. None of them will be available when the Broncos draft at #31.

If you aren't in position to draft a top QB prospect, and all those 3 guys would be gone in the top 15 picks, your only other option is to find a guy in the 2nd or 3rd round, and then develop him for a few years.

The Broncos were in a unique position in 2012 where they had Peyton Manning, and could afford to draft a QB and then develop him behind Peyton for 4 years until he was ready. Brock is still only 25 years old.

But now there's no more Peyton. And this team is ready to win NOW. They can't find a QB in the draft in the 2nd or 3rd round and wait to develop him. And 2nd or 3rd round QBs are certainly not going to be ready to throw in year 1. That's almost always a disaster.

There just aren't a lot of good QB prospects in any draft, and the Broncos aren't going to get any of them this year.

[Cugel]

You're on that boat by yourself because no one has said we wouldn't be contenders. People think our chances increase if the offense is improved.

I would say that if the Broncos can't keep Osweiler, their ONLY chance to win another SB would be to find a veteran FA QB and somehow get that guy to play well.

No way are they going to win another SB with a caretaker QB. That's the point of history: not the '86 Bears, not the 2001 Ravens, not the 2003 Bucs, none of those teams repeated.

If they can't re-sign Osweiler I'd say their chances drop dramatically. Vegas is already reflecting that. Right now the Broncos are only about the 10th favorite. All that is due to questions about Denver's Qb.

Elway may not think that, but you can bet he's going to get a TON of criticism if Osweiler goes elsewhere, has success and the Broncos don't manage to find a decent replacement and consequently don't reach the playoffs or don't win there.

Every year that Osweiler does well will be a standing indictment of Elway - if he gets away people will say "why the Hell didn't you pay him?! Idiot!"

On the other hand if he's just mediocre, they'll say "Elway was right! Look at him struggle in L.A." or something.

[TXBRONC]

Actually, you said basically that it was virtually impossible for the best defense to win back to back superbowls. How is that not being a contender?

The difference is, I simply don't think that it's brock or bust when it comes to the offense, no matter how black and white you want to make it.

No, I never said that. I said if Denver didn't improve that offense that it becomes difficult to repeat.

No I'm not making this black and white I'm just not foolish enough to believe it doesn't who is behind. The options you have suggested are terrible.

[Lancane]

Actually, you said basically that it was virtually impossible for the best defense to win back to back superbowls. How is that not being a contender?

The difference is, I simply don't think that it's brock or bust when it comes to the offense, no matter how black and white you want to make it.

I was the one who said that Ninja, and I stand by it. For all the repeat or multiple championship teams there is two common denominators. One, they had a good defense and two, they had a good offense - hence, they are more well balanced. Juggernauts, whether offensive or defensive are 99.9% one and done in the end in comparison. We don't have to be great, but constant and productive, something which Denver was not last year.

Osweiler is out best chance unless Elway is willing to trade up for one of the big three in the draft.

[NightTerror218]

He signed a 6 year deal for $96 million. That's $16 million a year and that's his cap hit too.

I don't think Osweiler deserves that type of money, but if his agent is that good more power to him.

I gave you his exact numbers. He has more years on the contract then I listed but those are the numbers.

[wayninja]

No, I never said that. I said if Denver didn't improve that offense that it becomes difficult to repeat.

No I'm not making this black and white I'm just not foolish enough to believe it doesn't who is behind. The options you have suggested are terrible.

It's always difficult to repeat. It would also be difficult for Denver to not improve it's offense. What you are saying is vacuous.

[wayninja]

I was the one who said that Ninja, and I stand by it. For all the repeat or multiple championship teams there is two common denominators. One, they had a good defense and two, they had a good offense - hence, they are more well balanced. Juggernauts, whether offensive or defensive are 99.9% one and done in the end in comparison. We don't have to be great, but constant and productive, something which Denver was not last year.

Osweiler is out best chance unless Elway is willing to trade up for one of the big three in the draft.

All 7 teams that have repeated? Again, you'll never convince me that it statistically meaningful.

I'm also not convinced about how automatically and consistently productive we become with Brock.

[BroncoJoe]

All 7 teams that have repeated? Again, you'll never convince me that it statistically meaningful.

I'm also not convinced about how automatically and consistently productive we become with Brock.

I think the thought is, he couldn't be worse.

[wayninja]

I think the thought is, he couldn't be worse.

Couldn't be worse than what? The QB play we had last year? That's sorta my point too. No matter what we do, it would be difficult to have worse QB play.

I don't exactly see how that means that Brock is clearly the best option and deserving of whatever he asks for. Hopefully we can sign him at a fair price. If we can't, we'll have no other choice but to go with other options (and I doubt it'll be the draft).

[NightTerror218]

Couldn't be worse than what? The QB play we had last year? That's sorta my point too. No matter what we do, it would be difficult to have worse QB play.

I don't exactly see how that means that Brock is clearly the best option and deserving of whatever he asks for. Hopefully we can sign him at a fair price. If we can't, we'll have no other choice but to go with other options (and I doubt it'll be the draft).

There are no other option in FA. Oz is one of the best option in FA with highest upside

[tripp]

Couldn't be worse than what? The QB play we had last year? That's sorta my point too. No matter what we do, it would be difficult to have worse QB play.

I don't exactly see how that means that Brock is clearly the best option and deserving of whatever he asks for. Hopefully we can sign him at a fair price. If we can't, we'll have no other choice but to go with other options (and I doubt it'll be the draft).

I think Brock is the best option out of the available QB's mainly because he fits OUR system. He knows our system. He's familiar with the receivers. It's a better fit, and there's no transition time like it would be with other QB's. Not to mention he wouldn't just be a stop gap till another QB comes along.

I think we'll know Elway's feelings towards Oz if he does indeed reach the FA market.

[Ravage!!!]

I think Brock is the best option out of the available QB's mainly because he fits OUR system. He knows our system. He's familiar with the receivers. It's a better fit, and there's no transition time like it would be with other QB's. Not to mention he wouldn't just be a stop gap till another QB comes along.

I think we'll know Elway's feelings towards Oz if he does indeed reach the FA market.

I don't think that Elway is trying to keep him from testing the market to see what the 'value' is, though. Elway has something to sell on TOP of salary, and that's a playing chip. If Elway was really worried that Brock could get an offer that was twice as much as we are willing to pay, then he might make a 'hard sell' now. On the other hand, if the market proves that the money is just a few million over, than the Broncos TEAM has value that makes up that difference. But it's easier to sell that if the player can actually SEE that money being offered isn't "that much more" than what we can give.

[TXBRONC]

It's always difficult to repeat. It would also be difficult for Denver to not improve it's offense. What you are saying is vacuous.

Only you assumes that one put just a warm body at quarterback and think it means automatic improvement.

[tripp]

I trust this guy a lot, broke the Peyton to Denver story long before anyone else did. Some think he's obnoxious but.. anyway.

Incarcerated Bob IBN ‏@incarceratedbob 2m2 minutes ago
QB position is insane , somebody's gonna offer @BrockOsweiler serious $$$$

and

Incarcerated Bob IBN ‏@incarceratedbob 39s40 seconds ago
Don't be surprised if the Jets jump in that @BrockOsweiler bidding ... Texans and Rams have to come calling $$$

[MOtorboat]

I gave you his exact numbers. He has more years on the contract then I listed but those are the numbers.

You gave me his base salary, not how much he's costing the team. Cincinnati chose to gave him more up front money than base salary. but no matter how you space it out, he's costing the Bengals $16 million per year.

Osweiler doesn't deserve that type of contract, and if he's demanding it, the Broncos shouldn't give it to him. If another team is willing to pay him the same $96 million over six years, his agent has done a hell of a job and he should jump at it. I don't think he'll get anywhere near that.

[slim]

You gave me his base salary, not how much he's costing the team. Cincinnati chose to gave him more up front money than base salary. but no matter how you space it out, he's costing the Bengals $16 million per year.

Osweiler doesn't deserve that type of contract, and if he's demanding it, the Broncos shouldn't give it to him. If another team is willing to pay him the same $96 million over six years, his agent has done a hell of a job and he should jump at it. I don't think he'll get anywhere near that.

I agree he hasn't earned that kind of contract, but the thought of rolling into 2016 with TJ Yates starting at QB makes me a little nervous.

[DenBronx]

I trust this guy a lot, broke the Peyton to Denver story long before anyone else did. Some think he's obnoxious but.. anyway.

Incarcerated Bob IBN ‏@incarceratedbob 2m2 minutes ago
QB position is insane , somebody's gonna offer @BrockOsweiler serious $$$$

and

Incarcerated Bob IBN ‏@incarceratedbob 39s40 seconds ago
Don't be surprised if the Jets jump in that @BrockOsweiler bidding ... Texans and Rams have to come calling $$$


I don't think we should break the bank for Brock. Sorry, he was average at best last year and still sort of an unknown. Sign Fitzpatrick then idgaf.

Trade up in the draft and go get Goff!!!

[MOtorboat]

I agree he hasn't earned that kind of contract, but the thought of rolling into 2016 with TJ Yates starting at QB makes me a little nervous.

How about Peyton Manning?

Not for a second do I think Elway will trot out a guy like T.J. Yates unless there is an injury, btw. It may be a veteran that people aren't overly happy about, but it's not going to be T.J. Yates.

[slim]

How about Peyton Manning?

Not for a second do I think Elway will trot out a guy like T.J. Yates unless there is an injury, btw. It may be a veteran that people aren't overly happy about, but it's not going to be T.J. Yates.

Would you rather have Peyton or Matt Schaub?

#shudder

[MOtorboat]

Would you rather have Peyton or Matt Schaub?

#shudder

Well, I'd rather have Peyton Manning in that scenario. I think it's well documented that I don't have a problem with Manning like you do.

I'm OK with Robert Griffin III. I think I'm probably in a small minority on that, but I am.

[DenBronx]

I agree he hasn't earned that kind of contract, but the thought of rolling into 2016 with TJ Yates starting at QB makes me a little nervous.

How about Peyton Manning?




If Brock walks then I'd rather Manning then any other FA. I am probably in the minority with that but a healthy Manning with this defense and we repeat.

[slim]

Well, I'd rather have Peyton Manning in that scenario. I think it's well documented that I don't have a problem with Manning like you do.

I'm OK with Robert Griffin III. I think I'm probably in a small minority on that, but I am.

Yes, your inability to recognize poor QB is well documented :coffee:

I'm just glad #7 is calling the shots. He will figure it out.

[DenBronx]

You all are forgetting that Manning was playing POSSUM!!!

[DenBronx]

Well, I'd rather have Peyton Manning in that scenario. I think it's well documented that I don't have a problem with Manning like you do.

I'm OK with Robert Griffin III. I think I'm probably in a small minority on that, but I am.

Yes, your inability to recognize poor QB is well documented :coffee:

I'm just glad #7 is calling the shots. He will figure it out.


Sure he will figure it out. But are we not allowed to talk about it on here until then?

[slim]

Sure he will figure it out. But are we not allowed to talk about it on here until then?

No.

[DenBronx]

Sure he will figure it out. But are we not allowed to talk about it on here until then?

No.


Why the hell not? Someone has to be the voice of reason and I can guarantee you Elway gets on here to read my suggestions! I am pretty much responsible for us winning a SB!!

[Cugel]

I was the one who said that Ninja, and I stand by it. For all the repeat or multiple championship teams there is two common denominators. One, they had a good defense and two, they had a good offense - hence, they are more well balanced. Juggernauts, whether offensive or defensive are 99.9% one and done in the end in comparison. We don't have to be great, but constant and productive, something which Denver was not last year.

Osweiler is out best chance unless Elway is willing to trade up for one of the big three in the draft.

I'd have to say this is 100% correct Lancane. Just look at the QBs who have won more than one SB over the last 30 years:

Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Eli Manning, Ben Roethlisberger, John Elway, Troy Aikman, Joe Montana.

[Cugel]

Yes, your inability to recognize poor QB is well documented :coffee:

I'm just glad #7 is calling the shots. He will figure it out.

The greatest probability is that he will find a way to re-sign Osweiler.

But, there may not be a solution at all. The worst case scenario may happen. Someone like the Rams may offer Osweiler $15-$17M a year and that's that. He's gone.

And then Elway has to mull over the scraps of FA QBs who suck, and try and draft some kid in the 2nd or 3rd round who might possibly be ready to start in 2 or 3 years.

That's the reality. Elway is NOT going to offer $15M a year to Osweiler. He can't, given the Broncos salary cap situation.

He might even be willing to risk it on general principles, but he can't do so if it means blowing up the rest of the salary cap.

[Ravage!!!]

Elway is NOT going to offer $15M a year to Osweiler. He can't, given the Broncos salary cap situation.



I'll take that bet. We would be really really lucky, and Brock woudl really have to be on board to take less than 15 to be our starting QB.

[LTC Pain]

Tom Condon says PM hasn't decided yet if he's retiring or not. IMHO, the Broncos will cut PM before 9 March to avoid paying out that $19M!

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/03/02/agent-peyton-manning-still-hasnt-decided-whether-to-retire/

[Ravage!!!]

Tom Condon says PM hasn't decided yet if he's retiring or not. IMHO, the Broncos will cut PM before 9 March to avoid paying out that $19M!

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/03/02/agent-peyton-manning-still-hasnt-decided-whether-to-retire/

Of course they would cut him if they need to. But that's a full week away. There isn't a need to do that.

[LTC Pain]

Of course they would cut him if they need to. But that's a full week away. There isn't a need to do that.

I'd think Elway and PM would do the Vulcan mind meld or something to settle this. If PM wants to continue playing (but not for the Broncos) why not just discuss it with Elway ASAP? Cutting PM sooner rather than later would allow him to look at potential suitors and save us boo-koo cap space. Before 9 March of course. Not sure how waiting benefits PM because he's played his last down as a Bronco. Unless PM is that torn about retiring or playing longer.

[Ravage!!!]

I'd think Elway and PM would do the Vulcan mind meld or something to settle this. If PM wants to continue playing (but not for the Broncos) why not just discuss it with Elway ASAP? Cutting PM sooner rather than later would allow him to look at potential suitors and save us boo-koo cap space. Before 9 March of course. Not sure how waiting benefits PM because he's played his last down as a Bronco. Unless PM is that torn about retiring or playing longer.

I don't know why you think that Elway and CO aren't doing their due dilegence without Manning's permission? What makes you think that Elway isn't lookign into and doing his research on all possible scenarios? Manning's time isn't keeping Elway from doing his job,and isn't keeping Elway from making any decisions. Elway knows what he's willing to do, in either direction. So Manning taking the time that has been alloted to him, isn't hurting anyone.

You know who it bothers? The impatient fans that talk football every day on a message board, because we have nothing else to talk about. But other than that, it's not bothering anyone else. It's not keeping ANYTHING else from happening. It's not keeping Elway from doing his job, signing Brock, or looking at other FA's. It's just bothering some fans as THEY are staring at their computer every day, and the day's feel like they are SOOOOO long in between, that the WHOLE WHOPPING 4 weeks seems like it's been for-ev-er.

[Joel]

I'd think Elway and PM would do the Vulcan mind meld or something to settle this. If PM wants to continue playing (but not for the Broncos) why not just discuss it with Elway ASAP? Cutting PM sooner rather than later would allow him to look at potential suitors and save us boo-koo cap space. Before 9 March of course. Not sure how waiting benefits PM because he's played his last down as a Bronco. Unless PM is that torn about retiring or playing longer.
If Manning wants to retire as a Colt, or seek another team to immediately lead to a SB while still learning his teammates names, he need only SAY SO and I'm sure Elway would quickly cut him loose with a warm handshake and get back to negotiating with Oz. There's no reason it should be this fraught, and many that it shouldn't.

[Ravage!!!]

EXACTLY. If Manning wants to retire as a Colt, or seek another team to immediately lead to a SB while still learning his teammates names, he need only SAY SO and I'm sure Elway would quickly cut him loose with a warm handshake and get back to negotiating with Oz. There's no reason it should be this fraught, and many that it shouldn't.

Why does he "need to say so?" So that you feel better about it? Manning isn't keeping Elway from negotiating with Brock.

[TXBRONC]

You all are forgetting that Manning was playing POSSUM!!!

Is he still playing possum?

[LTC Pain]

Jason Cole of Bleacher Report says the Broncos are offering Oz less than $16M per year and are willing to let him test the market. I don't think Oz's play/experience warrants that much, yet. Hopefully Elway can convince Oz to take a two-year prove it deal for $10-12 per year to get that big payday.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2621279-insider-buzz-broncos-offering-osweiler-less-than-16m-willing-to-let-qb-hit-fa

[DenBronx]

13 mill lets do it.

[Valar Morghulis]

Well, I'd rather have Peyton Manning in that scenario. I think it's well documented that I don't have a problem with Manning like you do. I'm OK with Robert Griffin III. I think I'm probably in a small minority on that, but I am.

I stand with mo on both these issues

[Ravage!!!]

Jason Cole of Bleacher Report says the Broncos are offering Oz less than $16M per year and are willing to let him test the market. I don't think Oz's play/experience warrants that much, yet. Hopefully Elway can convince Oz to take a two-year prove it deal for $10-12 per year to get that big payday.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2621279-insider-buzz-broncos-offering-osweiler-less-than-16m-willing-to-let-qb-hit-fa

10-12 "prove it" deal. Really? You think that is what it will take to sign Oz?

I just don't see that being reasonable at all, imo. We drafted the kid to be our starter, he sits behind one of the best and learns, and then when he's the guy to step it up after helping save our Super Bowl winning season....we think we should low-ball him and say "prove it." I hope to god Elway does NOT try that with Brock.

[wayninja]

Why not? It's not like Brock was single-handedly responsible for the SB win. Considering 12 million is right below Sam Bradford money, I don't think that's "low balling" him.

[tripp]

Why not? It's not like Brock was single-handedly responsible for the SB win. Considering 12 million is right below Sam Bradford money, I don't think that's "low balling" him.

And he wasn't single-handedly the reason why we won against the Bengals, Pats and Bears. All again, came from our awesome defense that kept us in it. Brock played good enough, not sure I'd give him a ton of credit for the games he won as a QB. Infact, I would've argued if AJ McCarron was a soon to be FA as well, he'd draw more interest than Brock.

[wayninja]

And he wasn't single-handedly the reason why we won against the Bengals, Pats and Bears. All again, came from our awesome defense that kept us in it. Brock played good enough, not sure I'd give him a ton of credit for the games he won as a QB. Infact, I would've argued if AJ McCarron was a soon to be FA as well, he'd draw more interest than Brock.

He had a great come-back win against the pats. Overall he looked like a solid backup. But that's it. A solid backup. Could he be more? Sure. Should we bet the farm on it? I think that would be a mistake.

As someone else said, I'll trust Elway to compensate him as he feels he deserves. It's worked out pretty well so far.

[tripp]

He had a great come-back win against the pats. Overall he looked like a solid backup. But that's it. A solid backup. Could he be more? Sure. Should we bet the farm on it? I think that would be a mistake.

As someone else said, I'll trust Elway to compensate him as he feels he deserves. It's worked out pretty well so far.

Remember the contract Seattle gave Matt Flynn based on that one performance he had against Detroit (I think?). 6 more games is a lot more to go by, but how much is it REALLY to go by, when it was apparent all season long that our defense is the reason for our success?

Looking back at the games Brock played, we've relied on our defense to win all of them/setup opportunities for our offense to get the ball back and win it. He does have a lot of upside, I'll give him that. I hope he takes his career more seriously than the money he'll be offered somewhere else.

[MOtorboat]

Remember the contract Seattle gave Matt Flynn based on that one performance he had against Detroit (I think?). 6 more games is a lot more to go by, but how much is it REALLY to go by, when it was apparent all season long that our defense is the reason for our success?

Looking back at the games Brock played, we've relied on our defense to win all of them/setup opportunities for our offense to get the ball back and win it. He does have a lot of upside, I'll give him that. I hope he takes his career more seriously than the money he'll be offered somewhere else.

Not to be facetious, but do you remember the Flynn contract?

He ended up earning $14.5 million for two years.

[tripp]

Not to be facetious, but do you remember the Flynn contract?

He ended up earning $14.5 million for two years.

Incredible

[MOtorboat]

Incredible

Well he started all of three less games than Osweiler. Not six. And then got paid for two years of a $26 million, four-year contract that was set to pay him $6.5 million per year on average (he got $8 in year one). And you're suggesting three more games equates to almost $10 million more for Osweiler?

[tripp]

Well he started all of three less games than Osweiler. Not six. And then got paid for two years of a $26 million, four-year contract that was set to pay him $6.5 million per year on average (he got $8 in year one). And you're suggesting three more games equates to almost $10 million more for Osweiler?

I've flip flopped on my opinion of Oz 3 or 4 times in a span of 24 hours. I don't have a clue whether I'd want Oz back and for what price. Glad I'm not making the decision.

[Lancane]

Charlie Campbell of Walterfootball is saying that Elway wants to ink Osweiler to a friendly short-term deal because the Broncos think he can run Kubiak's offense well enough, but that he is not the Broncos long-term solution. Broncos really like Wentz and Prescott, but the Broncos are showing a lot of quiet interest in Paxton Lynch.

[GEM]

Tx and ninja....this is carrying on to more than one thread now. Put each other on ignore or don't post with each other. Take a breather, guys.

[Ravage!!!]

The 7 games and the 4 years on the team is MUCH more than we've seen from any draft pick. Yet for some reason, teams keep picking those players. Weird.

[MOtorboat]

The 7 games and the 4 years on the team is MUCH more than we've seen from any draft pick. Yet for some reason, teams keep picking those players. Weird.

Draft picks don't get $16 million a year.

[D1g1tal j1m]

Peyton's "delay" in making his decision is helping Elway negotiate and do his research on Brock and the possible available replacements/scenarios without having Elway tip his hand one way or the other. Elway is shielded from signing Brock right now because he is waiting to Peyton to make his decision. Everyone knows that Peyton will not be with the Broncos after March 8th, his declining physical skills and struggles this season has been well documented and he was lucky to escape with the Championship this year (his performance in the SB was hard to watch after that first drive).
I believe Brock will be resigned to be the Starting QB of the Defending Superbowl Champs. He won't be low balled as much as is being reported. I think it will be 14 - 16 million a season with incentives (like playoff wins and SB appearances), that's just the going rate for NFL Starting QBs. He had a solid season and ran Kubes system well (we ran the ball much better with him under Center) and we leaned on the Defense to finish games (which will be the same formula next year).

[Ravage!!!]

Draft picks don't get $16 million a year.

Nope. But they did, and teams STILL took the chances with thos players with less knowledge of their NFL skill than we do with Brock's. Point is, the QB position is worth risk that every other position is not worth. Despite no one likes to feel as though they "have" to sign a player, Denver is in a position that we almost nearly 'have' to sign Brock or take a step backwards in the hope of repeating.

[MOtorboat]

Nope. But they did, and teams STILL took the chances with thos players with less knowledge of their NFL skill than we do with Brock's. Point is, the QB position is worth risk that every other position is not worth. Despite no one likes to feel as though they "have" to sign a player, Denver is in a position that we almost nearly 'have' to sign Brock or take a step backwards in the hope of repeating.

He just flat out doesn't deserve Andy Dalton's contract. He deserves Foles contract, and Denver shouldn't overpay him just because he's a quarterback. Your ****** if he bombs next year.

[NightTerror218]

You gave me his base salary, not how much he's costing the team. Cincinnati chose to gave him more up front money than base salary. but no matter how you space it out, he's costing the Bengals $16 million per year.

Osweiler doesn't deserve that type of contract, and if he's demanding it, the Broncos shouldn't give it to him. If another team is willing to pay him the same $96 million over six years, his agent has done a hell of a job and he should jump at it. I don't think he'll get anywhere near that.

Nope I gave you his cap hit. 2016 $10.5M base salary, $2.4M salary bonus and $200 work out bonus. Under $16 M.

[MOtorboat]

Nope I gave you his cap hit. 2016 $10.5M base salary, $2.4M salary bonus and $200 work out bonus. Under $16 M.

I don't know where your numbers are coming from, but the contract averages $16 million a year. 6 years, $96 million. That's 16 per year, whether that's what he exactly gets each year is irrelevant to this discussion. Osweiler isn't worth that contract. He may be some day, but he's not now.

[NightTerror218]

I am ok giving him a guarenteed $10M a year plus sign bonus and incentives that could equal $15M a year. Front load the base salary in guarentees and incentives. $45 M for 3 years with $20 guarenteed.

I have said it before it is all about the guarenteed and the details. Not just the max amount the contract is worth.

[NightTerror218]

If we lose Oz and Manning is gone and a rookie is drafted. I could see Elway cleaning house on older vets like ware to sign Malik and travathan. Keep the younger core together.

With a rookie QB, odds are no SB in year one. But to keep the strength of young defense together. Either way still a contender but no push to win now due to small QB window.