Ryan Clady willing to redo his contract [Archive]

VonDoom

01-31-2016, 12:27 PM

DENVER (AP) — Star left tackle Ryan Clady tells The Associated Press he'd be willing to restructure his contract to stay with the Denver Broncos.

Clady sat out the 2015 season after tearing his left ACL in May and is missing a Super Bowl for the second time. Two years ago, he was out with a foot injury.

Clady says he hasn't been approached about redoing his deal, but "I'm sure that'll come after the season."

He adds: "I'm definitely willing to talk. I definitely would like to be a lifetime Bronco."

The eighth-year pro and longest-tenured Bronco is due $9.5 million next season and $10 million in 2017.

Veteran tackle Ryan Harris is Peyton Manning's blindside protector with Clady and rookie Ty Sambrailo (shoulder) both on injured reserve.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2016/01/31/ryan-clady-tells-ap-hes-willing-to-redo-contract/79603174/

WARHORSE

01-31-2016, 12:37 PM

I love you Clady.

Dapper Dan

01-31-2016, 12:48 PM

Praise Allah.

Valar Morghulis

01-31-2016, 12:48 PM

I love you Clady.

We'll see. If he is willing to entertain a base salary of about 5/6 mil, I will love him too.

Krugan

01-31-2016, 12:48 PM

TXBRONC

01-31-2016, 12:50 PM

He's not what he once was but he's still better than Harris who is better suited to being a right tackle. However, barring any problems I think Sambrailo will end up being the starting right tackle next year.

WARHORSE

01-31-2016, 01:02 PM

We'll see. If he is willing to entertain a base salary of about 5/6 mil, I will love him too.

Clady has a big heart. He will.

Valar Morghulco.

All men must be a Bronco for life. ;)

turftoad

01-31-2016, 01:14 PM

Clady may not be what he used to be but he's still a top 10 LT IMO.
Clady, Garcia, Paradis, Vasquez and either Harris or Sambrailo would be a good looking line if you ask me.

Shazam!

01-31-2016, 01:15 PM

This was a major concern of mine in the off-season, he is no longer the player he was and his injury status is not very good.

Timmy!

01-31-2016, 01:27 PM

Well he really doesn't have a choice.....and he is going to have to take a hefty pay cut to stay. 6 mil per is doable, 10 is not.

Davii

01-31-2016, 01:31 PM

Great news! It really comes down to whether he wants to play here or not. He won't be making 9+ mill the next couple years. So, he can redo his contact here or he can get cut and get the same amount of money on another team. Either way, he will get a reduced salary.

VonDoom

01-31-2016, 01:32 PM

I have no doubt he realises his market value is diminished alot, so it would be a wise move to lower that contract and try to stay put here.

Im not sure on all the numbers, but i thought i read there would be a big cap savings with his release, so of course it would be the wise move.

Now can he stay healthy?

As it is right now, if we released him, it would save $8.9 million and we'd have a dead money hit of $1.2 million.

Now, I was on record as saying that Clady had played his last snap for the Broncos, but I've been rethinking that lately. First, consider that SOMEONE has to play LT next year, hopefully someone that is an upgrade from Ryan Harris. Who is that person? Russel Okung? There really aren't any big name FA out there. A "star" LT will cost us $8-10 million a year anyway, which is what we were going to pay Clady. If Clady takes less, that solves both problems - we then have a LT and save some money. Elway has been very reluctant to take any kind of dead money hit of any significance, so I could certainly see this playing out. The question is how much and what does "redo" mean in this case (as in, does he want an extension that lowers his base salary but gives him more guaranteed years and money?)

We have no idea if he can still play at a top level after all the injuries, but I would think getting him back cheaper to find out would be the best option at this point. Sambrailo could play RT, as he was always meant to, and we can take a rookie in the 1st or 2nd to compete and be a contingency plan.

Dapper Dan

01-31-2016, 01:33 PM

He's starting to remind me of Kuper.

aberdien

01-31-2016, 01:35 PM

I want to make him a lifetime Bronco.

Valar Morghulis

01-31-2016, 01:39 PM

I want to make him a lifetime Bronco.

how will you go about achieving that goal of yours?

aberdien

01-31-2016, 01:47 PM

how will you go about achieving that goal of yours?

I dunno, I think i've got the "it factor"

Valar Morghulis

01-31-2016, 02:01 PM

I dunno, I think i've got the "it factor"

Maybe you could write him a nice letter and offer him some history lessons

Spiritguy

01-31-2016, 02:11 PM

Here's a look at Ryan's injury history as a pro. Not sure what I think about him staying vs leaving.

On April 28, 2010, Clady injured his patella tendon while playing basketball. Did not miss a game that season

Towards the end of the 2012 season, he tore a labrum in his right shoulder, but still did not miss any time. He played the last few games of the season including the playoffs with the injury, and had surgery to repair it only after the season ended.

On July 14, 2013. Clady agreed to a new contract

On September 18, 2013, Clady was placed on season-ending injured reserve, due to a Lisfranc injury he suffered week two.

On May 28, 2015, Clady tore his ACL during OTA's

Been a tough time for Clady. Two injuries during his rookie contract and two on the second contract that took him down for the season.

Edmonton Bronco Fan

01-31-2016, 03:34 PM

Saw this today; great news. Let's get it done. If he can stay healthy, it's a big boon to the offensive line going forward.

WARHORSE

01-31-2016, 03:37 PM

I dunno, I think i've got the "it factor"

You could have his baby.

Take one for the team Aberdien!!!

;)

Slick

01-31-2016, 03:43 PM

He was Shanahan's second best draft pick. I hope Denver figures out a way to keep him. I'm a fan.

LTC Pain

01-31-2016, 05:38 PM

Clady may not be what he used to be but he's still a top 10 LT IMO.
Clady, Garcia, Paradis, Vasquez and either Harris or Sambrailo would be a good looking line if you ask me.

I like that O-line as well. And the Broncos may take OL in the 1st round of the draft!

TXBRONC

01-31-2016, 06:01 PM

Clady may not be what he used to be but he's still a top 10 LT IMO.
Clady, Garcia, Paradis, Vasquez and either Harris or Sambrailo would be a good looking line if you ask me.

That is what I assume.

DenBronx

01-31-2016, 06:58 PM

Does this mean trading for Joe Thomas is off the table in the offseason? Could you imagine both of these guys healthy playing for us?

DenBronx

01-31-2016, 06:59 PM

Joel

01-31-2016, 09:27 PM

I like that O-line as well. And the Broncos may take OL in the 1st round of the draft!

I believe we draft multiple OL guys this year.
Not holding my breath on either of those. Even after our line cost us our last SB and pretty much everyone in the NFL (including some of our own coaches) rightly criticized it last year, we still waited till the end of the 2nd to draft ANY offensive linemen, and didn't get any top FAs till we called Mathis off his couch a fortnight before Opening Day. It's just never been a priority, not even with an aging, fragile and immobile HoF QB. Don't expect much more help for Oz.

I'm in the same "we'll see" boat as others. We were never going to pay Clady $10 mil next year fresh off the latest in his long line of severe injuries to the same leg, but will he come down enough to justify gambling that he can still play at an NFL starters level? Each of the last two times he injured that leg he was a shell of his usual self throughout the ensuing season: He was bad in 2010 before bouncing back with a solid 2011, and wasn't great last year.

What about now...?

tomjonesrocks

01-31-2016, 09:38 PM

Does this mean trading for Joe Thomas is off the table in the offseason? Could you imagine both of these guys healthy playing for us?

Honestly I don't even want Thomas now. Cugel has ruined him for me.

broncohead

01-31-2016, 09:55 PM

I saw this today as well. Would be nice to see Clady back playing again. Besides the first few games as a rookie I was never afraid of any pass rusher taking over a game.

Yashahla17

02-01-2016, 05:57 AM

Would be awesome for him to redo his deal to about 4 million, he comes back a stud, sambrello can go play the right side and solidify our offensive tackle positions again.

Joel

02-01-2016, 06:26 AM

$4 mil might be asking a bit too much (i.e. little) but if Clady's fine with that (i.e. his agent's fine with that commission) I'm all for it.

Yashahla17

02-01-2016, 06:34 AM

The guy has cashed in two years in a row to sit around injured. He better be willing to make 4 million and be healthy and good for us again.

Joel

02-01-2016, 06:58 AM

He played last year; just his dumb luck that happened to be sandwiched between OTHER years 1) we went to the SB and 2) he was out all year. What really sucks is that our interior line's progressed well this year (except against stunts and delayed blitzes,) so if we had Clady playing his natural dominant LT spot, Sambrailo in the RT role for which we drafted him and Harris as a swing (or just the opposite; we drafted Harris as a starting RT, too, just a very long time ago) we'd be OK.

Just another reminder of how many pieces must come together simultaneously to make a championship team, and how important that makes it to seize and make the most of EVERY rare opportunity. Marino was only in his second year when he SHATTERED the record books with a 3 TD/gm average everyone thought unbreakable, so losing the SB wasn't THAT big deal since he was sure to get many more chances. Until HE NEVER DID.

CoachChaz

02-01-2016, 10:57 AM

Tough call. It makes sense to keep him because we really dont have any other legit options and wont have a ton of money to play with in FA. On the other hand, we save a bunch by releasing him and in the two years we went to the SB...he wasnt a part of the success. So, if the deal makes sense amongst the other decisions we have to make, then fine...keep him. But if his idea of a reduced salary is 7-8 mil...bye Felicia.

Davii

02-01-2016, 10:59 AM

The guy has cashed in two years in a row to sit around injured. He better be willing to make 4 million and be healthy and good for us again.

He will take the market value. Whether it's in Denver or not, he will get what the market says he's worth.

NightTerror218

02-01-2016, 11:00 AM

He will not get less money overall but will prob extend it over a couple more years. Similar to Polomolu. Manning is only player I know of to ever take a straight pay cut.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor

02-01-2016, 11:06 AM

He will not get less money overall but will prob extend it over a couple more years. Similar to Polomolu. Manning is only player I know of to ever take a straight pay cut.

It's hard to say what will happen because he's already been paid all of his guaranteed money.

Joel

02-01-2016, 11:27 PM

He will not get less money overall but will prob extend it over a couple more years. Similar to Polomolu. Manning is only player I know of to ever take a straight pay cut.
Rod did it, and Aikman gave back a big chunk of a year-old contract when Emmitt held out demanding he be paid more than Thurman Thomas. Those are the only other cases I know of though; sadly few HoFers are that deeply committed to their team (even though they're among the few who usually don't NEED more money.)

That's a good plan though, because an extension that ensured he got next years $10½ million, but over 3-4 years, would keep his bank account healthy but be commensurate with his value now and in future. He could probably retire a Bronco, with a healthy bank account, while retaining his starting job, remaining in title hunts and getting paid what he's worth the whole time. Many great current and past players would envy that.

Cugel

02-02-2016, 12:00 AM

Well he really doesn't have a choice.....and he is going to have to take a hefty pay cut to stay. 6 mil per is doable, 10 is not.

I think it will be less than $6 million. He's missed two of the last 3 seasons and was less than stellar in 2014. They tried to trade for Joe Thomas during the season, and they need an elite LT. Doubtful that Ty Sambrailo will be that in 2016. He was supposed to start at RT this year before Clady got hurt.

The real problem with Clady isn't even the salary - it's the question of whether they can even rely on him to get through a season healthy, and whether he can be effective with his knees. Remember that he had torn knee ligaments in a non-contact drill.

I think the Broncos may want a medical opinion whether he's ever going to hold up. Because otherwise they need to revisit the question of whether to sign a FA T or not.

Right now they have 3 Ts on the active roster, Schofield, Harris & Tyler Polumbus. Next year they could either go with 4 or get rid of both Harris & Polumbus or Schofield.

Joel

02-02-2016, 01:45 AM

The real problem with Clady isn't even the salary - it's the question of whether they can even rely on him to get through a season healthy, and whether he can be effective with his knees. Remember that he had torn knee ligaments in a non-contact drill.
I agree that's the key: Not just the injuries, but THREE SERIOUS INJURIES TO THE SAME LEG. Sad to say, and hard to anticipate, but it really looks like that STUPID offseason game of pickup basketball ruined his career, and possibly Mannings last two chances at a Ring. Sure, he played every game that year, but he SUCKED, two years later he missed the season and SB with a lis-franc in that foot, he was mediocre afterward last year, and now he's missed the season with an ACL in that leg.

The only thing (nominally) holding that leg together now is bandaids and prayer. And if he can't pivot or plant, he can't play LT.

I think the Broncos may want a medical opinion whether he's ever going to hold up. Because otherwise they need to revisit the question of whether to sign a FA T or not.
That's a good idea, though I don't know if he's still be willing to take less money if we pressed that issue. It's justified, regardless.

Right now they have 3 Ts on the active roster, Schofield, Harris & Tyler Polumbus. Next year they could either go with 4 or get rid of both Harris & Polumbus or Schofield.
I doubt all three return unless Sambrailos injury ends his career before it ever began. Polumbus and Harris were both emergency signings, one pre- and the other midseason. If Clady and Sambrailo are on the roster we'll probably keep Schofield (for reasons known but to him and God, Dennison thinks highly of him) and MAYBE Harris as a swing who knows the system well from his years with Houston and the Broncos under OC Kubiak.

This, btw, doesn't exactly suggest we'll be adding lots of top OTs in the draft or FA; we may end up counting on Clady and Sambrailo to be quality starters and Schofield and Harris to fill for them when they're tired or hurt. If I were Oz, that would be part of my contract considerations, but I'm not sure how much agents think about stuff like that: It's not THEIR bodies on the field getting them paid.

02-02-2016, 07:26 AM

Joel,

Please list Clady's injury history.

TIA,
SR

TXBRONC

02-02-2016, 07:46 AM

The guy has cashed in two years in a row to sit around injured. He better be willing to make 4 million and be healthy and good for us again.

Ah no he hasn't cashed in two years in a row while sitting around injured.

Valar Morghulis

02-02-2016, 08:46 AM

Ah no he hasn't cashed in two years in a row while sitting around injured.

How not?

All of his money was guaranteed

Joel

02-02-2016, 08:58 AM

Joel,

Please list Clady's injury history.

TIA,
SR
Not ALL: Just SERIOUS ones to ONE LEG. If they weren't worth mentioning there wouldn't be a thread on a two-time All Pro offering to renegotiate for less cash.

How not?

All of his money was guaranteed
Well, the big "not" is that he played all of last season. Not at his former All Pro level, just as post-injury in 2010, but he was still solid, and I really expected him to bounce back and terrorize pass rushers and run stuffers alike this year, just as in 2011. Then preseason happened....

That makes what to expect next year and following ones a big question mark.

02-02-2016, 11:22 AM

Not ALL: Just SERIOUS ones to ONE LEG. If they weren't worth mentioning there wouldn't be a thread on a two-time All Pro offering to renegotiate for less cash. Well, the big "not" is that he played all of last season. Not at his former All Pro level, just as post-injury in 2010, but he was still solid, and I really expected him to bounce back and terrorize pass rushers and run stuffers alike this year, just as in 2011. Then preseason happened.... That makes what to expect next year and following ones a big question mark.

Joel,

Please list Clady's serious leg injuries.

TIA,
SR

Ravage!!!

02-02-2016, 12:24 PM

Rod did it, and Aikman gave back a big chunk of a year-old contract when Emmitt held out demanding he be paid more than Thurman Thomas. Those are the only other cases I know of though; sadly few HoFers are that deeply committed to their team (even though they're among the few who usually don't NEED more money.)

Actually... Aikman VERY distinctly said he was NOT palying "santy clause" by giving away HIS money to give to Emmitt. He restructured so that more money was available for THAT year to sign him, but he still ended up with the same amount of money he would have. Same with Rod Smith. He didn't give away his money to give to McCafferey, he simply renegotiated the terms of the contract so that more money was available, but not by giving it away.

Ravage!!!

02-02-2016, 12:27 PM

How not?

All of his money was guaranteed

All his money was guaranteed? No, not all his money. The guaranteed money is guaranteed, but that is spread out over the term of the contract while his SALARY is paid separately during the time he's on the team. So yeah, he gets the guaranteed money, but he doesn't get the salaried MILLIONS.

NightTerror218

02-02-2016, 12:32 PM

All his money was guaranteed? No, not all his money. The guaranteed money is guaranteed, but that is spread out over the term of the contract while his SALARY is paid separately during the time he's on the team. So yeah, he gets the guaranteed money, but he doesn't get the salaried MILLIONS.

Next year his base salary/cap hit is $9.5M and $10M in 2017. Only guarenteed he is left is $1.2M in signing bonus money over next 2 years.

Joel

02-02-2016, 01:12 PM

Valar Morghulis

02-02-2016, 02:33 PM

All his money was guaranteed? No, not all his money. The guaranteed money is guaranteed, but that is spread out over the term of the contract while his SALARY is paid separately during the time he's on the team. So yeah, he gets the guaranteed money, but he doesn't get the salaried MILLIONS.

no, that was not what i meant, obviously not all of his money was guaranteed - just that he had received all of the guaranteed amount (or almost all of it - someone below posted that he is still owed 1.2 mil over two years) and that to earn the majority of that guarenteed money - he sat on his ass at home

Ravage!!!

02-02-2016, 02:56 PM

VonDoom

02-02-2016, 03:03 PM

It was my understanding he got his signing bonus upfront, we just got to spread that $3 mil CAP HIT over the 5 year contract: $0.6 mil/yr. We can't duck any of it, because cutting him accelerates all of it to the current year; there's 2 years left, so $1.2 mil dead money—but he GOT it in 2013 with the rest. So the worst one could say is he got $1.2 million for missing 2013 and 2015; it's up to us whether we get anything for the last $1.2 mil he already got in 2013.

We're not getting it back regardless: It's gone, and any salary (currently set at $9.5 milion) will be in addition, but if we keep him it'll be $0.6 mil+salary.

Anything I'm missing or misunderstanding there?

That's how I see it, regarding the prorated bonus. He received that money up front, but it's spread out over the life of the deal. If he's cut this year, as I mentioned earlier in the thread, we save $8.9 million but take a dead money hit of $1.2 million, the remainder of that signing bonus.

TXBRONC

02-02-2016, 03:21 PM

How not?

All of his money was guaranteed

He didn't sit around two straight seasons injured collecting guaranteed money.

Joel

02-02-2016, 03:24 PM

no, that was not what i meant, obviously not all of his money was guaranteed - just that he had received all of the guaranteed amount (or almost all of it - someone below posted that he is still owed 1.2 mil over two years) and that to earn the majority of that guarenteed money - he sat on his ass at home
And rehabbed a lot: It's not like he deliberately got a lis-franc injury, then tore his ACL, just to screw us out of $1.2 million of the $3 million we already paid him. HE knows he missed the first SB of his career, too; twice now. Even the injury during the offseason basketball game—though I still maintain it was STUPID and possibly started a whole chain of events that ended an All Pro career in its infancy—wasn't intentional. It's not a workmans comp scam.

Valar Morghulis

02-02-2016, 04:18 PM

I have no idea how semantic principles are causing people to dispute the fact the dude got paid top dollar for two years to sit on IR

NightTerror218

02-02-2016, 04:52 PM

I have no idea how semantic principles are causing people to dispute the fact the dude got paid top dollar for two years to sit on IR

And in between still made pro bowl. He is still a top LT, but not worth top 5 money. But if he was healthy this year i think we would be a very different offense. He was drafted into the ZB and knows it well.

TXBRONC

02-02-2016, 08:16 PM

Next year his base salary/cap hit is $9.5M and $10M in 2017. Only guarenteed he is left is $1.2M in signing bonus money over next 2 years.

I can easily see Clady being back with a contract that has been redone.

Joel

02-03-2016, 04:01 PM

And in between still made pro bowl. He is still a top LT, but not worth top 5 money. But if he was healthy this year i think we would be a very different offense. He was drafted into the ZB and knows it well.
I've been as bad as anyone who's ignored Clady and Sambrailos injuries while bashing ELWAY for ignoring our awful line again. He DID ignore it each of the previous three years, and I still think waiting till the end of the 2nd and 4th is WAY too late to fix a line THIS bad, but I don't think there's any question a healthy Clady and Sambrailo would've made us a dominant team favored to win this weekend. Clady's been an All Pro in EVERY system when healthy, and does know the ZBS well.

The key phrase though is "when healthy;" since his offseason basketball game that's been less often than not, and there's no such thing as a "Pro Bowl IR."

NightTerror218

02-03-2016, 05:02 PM

I've been as bad as anyone who's ignored Clady and Sambrailos injuries while bashing ELWAY for ignoring our awful line again. He DID ignore it each of the previous three years, and I still think waiting till the end of the 2nd and 4th is WAY too late to fix a line THIS bad, but I don't think there's any question a healthy Clady and Sambrailo would've made us a dominant team favored to win this weekend. Clady's been an All Pro in EVERY system when healthy, and does know the ZBS well.

The key phrase though is "when healthy;" since his offseason basketball game that's been less often than not, and there's no such thing as a "Pro Bowl IR."

He has missed 2 seasons and is only 29. He has potential for a lot of football left.

Look at Carolina LB Thomas with the broken arm. He missed what 3 season, 2 with ACL tears in same knee and is an All Pro and playing at a high level. He is the reason not to give up on a player. With modern medicine big injuries are easier to come back from. Look at Brian Cushing who missed 2 seasons due to injuries and Sean Lee.

Look at how Miller and Harris bounced back from ACLs.

I have confidence in Clady bouncing back and like the idea of a redone contract. He is showing good faith.

Joel

02-03-2016, 07:14 PM

He has missed 2 seasons and is only 29. He has potential for a lot of football left.

Look at Carolina LB Thomas with the broken arm. He missed what 3 season, 2 with ACL tears in same knee and is an All Pro and playing at a high level. He is the reason not to give up on a player. With modern medicine big injuries are easier to come back from. Look at Brian Cushing who missed 2 seasons due to injuries and Sean Lee.

Look at how Miller and Harris bounced back from ACLs.

I have confidence in Clady bouncing back and like the idea of a redone contract. He is showing good faith.
We'll see; Cushing's not the player he used to be, hasn't been at least since the concussion that followed (IIRC) an ACL tear.

Clady doesn't have a history of coming back strong from injuries though: Just the opposite. He didn't miss a game after the offseason basketball injury, but was a shadow of himself, only bouncing back to All Pro form the FOLLOWING year. He likewise wasn't the same last year after the lis-franc cost him nearly all of 2013; I was hoping this year would see his return to All Pro form the way 2011 did—then he tore his ACL in preseason.

CLADYS history suggests 2014 will be a down year just as 2013 and 2010 were, and we'll have to expect him to be an All Pro LT again at 31. What's that worth...?

02-03-2016, 07:20 PM

I've been as bad as anyone who's ignored Clady and Sambrailos injuries while bashing ELWAY for ignoring our awful line again. He DID ignore it each of the previous three years, and I still think waiting till the end of the 2nd and 4th is WAY too late to fix a line THIS bad, but I don't think there's any question a healthy Clady and Sambrailo would've made us a dominant team favored to win this weekend. Clady's been an All Pro in EVERY system when healthy, and does know the ZBS well. The key phrase though is "when healthy;" since his offseason basketball game that's been less often than not, and there's no such thing as a "Pro Bowl IR."

Yeah, bringing in a Pro Bowl RG and one of (at the time, presumed) best LGs in football the last few years was certainly ignoring the line. I'll give you that they didn't do enough for the line, but to say it's been ignored is a gross overstatement. Let's not forget how well Max Garcia and Matt Paradis have played. So long as you've got something to bitch about though right? At least now it's not nose tackles and defensive line amirite?

Joel

02-03-2016, 07:29 PM

Yeah, bringing in a Pro Bowl RG and one of (at the time, presumed) best LGs in football the last few years was certainly ignoring the line. I'll give you that they didn't do enough for the line, but to say it's been ignored is a gross overstatement. Let's not forget how well Max Garcia and Matt Paradis have played. So long as you've got something to bitch about though right? At least now it's not nose tackles and defensive line amirite?
Mathis was an eleventh hour signing off the couch; let's not pretend he was a premium FA we stole for a mere $2 mil+incentives. Or that getting lucky with a LATE 4th and SIXTH round interior lineman was by design; good scouting, maybe, but had C or G been priorities we'd have found someone better before the 100th or 200th pick. Vasquez was a solid signing, yes, but signing/drafting ONE All Pro lineman in FOUR SEASONS isn't "prioritizing the line" when it's as BAD as ours has been.

I'm glad we finally drafted a lineman before the NEXT TO LAST 3RD ROUND PICK (especially given how BAD that penultimate pick of the 3rd's been:) I just wish we'd done it much SOONER than 2015. I bet McGahee, Moreno, Ball, Hillman, Anderson and MANNING do, too.

02-03-2016, 07:30 PM

Not sure if you got the memo but the Broncos are in the Super Bowl.

Joel

02-03-2016, 07:32 PM

Not sure if you got the memo but the Broncos are in the Super Bowl.
We were in the SB in 2013, too; how'd that go, and WHY? You outright said you agree we've not done enough on the line, but you're arguing that point because...? :confused:

Davii

02-03-2016, 07:33 PM

We were in the SB in 2013, too; how'd that go, and WHY? You outright said you agree we've not done enough on the line, but you're arguing that point because...? :confused:

Because this isn't Madden and no team is perfect.

NightTerror218

02-03-2016, 07:45 PM

Because this isn't Madden and no team is perfect.

Super bowl bitches

02-03-2016, 08:22 PM

We were in the SB in 2013, too; how'd that go, and WHY? You outright said you agree we've not done enough on the line, but you're arguing that point because...? :confused:

Best offense in NFL history and single best season by a QB in NFL history. Maybe? Don't know. And you bitched about the defense then. Denver now has the best defense in football but their offense is average. What exactly do you want? Because everything that you've been bitching about has been done and they're back at the big game.

Joel

02-03-2016, 10:08 PM

Best offense in NFL history and single best season by a QB in NFL history. Maybe? Don't know. And you bitched about the defense then. Denver now has the best defense in football but their offense is average. What exactly do you want? Because everything that you've been bitching about has been done and they're back at the big game.
I didn't bitch about the D then, only the OFFENSIVE line, because it's been bitchworthy since before Manning arrived. When'd you hear me bitch about Vickerson or Knighton? That was the year we drafted Sly and I GOT bitched at for saying I wanted an OFFENSIVE linemen in the 1st. Did you confuse me with someone else?

Also: No, the best PASSING and QB season in history weren't why we LOST SB XLVIII, they were why we GOT there DESPITE a line so bad IT got us BLOWN OUT.

02-04-2016, 07:20 AM

I didn't bitch about the D then, only the OFFENSIVE line, because it's been bitchworthy since before Manning arrived. When'd you hear me bitch about Vickerson or Knighton? That was the year we drafted Sly and I GOT bitched at for saying I wanted an OFFENSIVE linemen in the 1st. Did you confuse me with someone else? Also: No, the best PASSING and QB season in history weren't why we LOST SB XLVIII, they were why we GOT there DESPITE a line so bad IT got us BLOWN OUT.

You think Denver lost the Super Bowl because of the offensive line? LMAO! Because the offensive line gave up 41 points.

TXBRONC

02-04-2016, 08:12 AM

TXBRONC

02-04-2016, 08:13 AM

I didn't bitch about the D then, only the OFFENSIVE line, because it's been bitchworthy since before Manning arrived. When'd you hear me bitch about Vickerson or Knighton? That was the year we drafted Sly and I GOT bitched at for saying I wanted an OFFENSIVE linemen in the 1st. Did you confuse me with someone else?

Also: No, the best PASSING and QB season in history weren't why we LOST SB XLVIII, they were why we GOT there DESPITE a line so bad IT got us BLOWN OUT.

No Joel that's what you have been doing the most.

Joel

02-04-2016, 08:57 AM

You think Denver lost the Super Bowl because of the offensive line? LMAO! Because the offensive line gave up 41 points.
Nah, STs gave up 7. But who sent our first snap through our own end zone, giving Seattle 2 pts AND the ball? Who went three-and-out after the D held them to a FG? Who gave up a pick after the D held them to ANOTHER FG? Who gave up a pick-six after a phantom end zone PI on 3rd and G gave Seattle a TD instead of THIRD FG? Are we dropping all that on the guy who'd just thrown 55 TDs and shattered every passing record in the book?

Elway said the D kept us in that game: So who dropped the ball? The guy who threw 55 TDs? The guy whose 13 receptions set a SB record (and prevented us getting the first SB shutout)? Maybe Clark, Beadles, Man Ram and Franklin getting abused all day had something to do with why all of historys best "offenses" possessions ended in SEATTLE points? The offensive line gave up 22 pts, then the STs gave up 7, and after 29-0 it didn't MATTER what anyone else did.

Even THEN, the only points "the D allowed" were a TD drive after DT fumbled just past midfield and another after we followed our lone score with a failed onside kick that gave Seattle the ball at midfield AGAIN. For a D missing FIVE starters, they played a HELL of a game: But historys best passing DIDN'T EVEN HAVE A FIRST DOWN TILL THE SECOND QUARTER, and didn't score till the FOURTH!

HELL, yes, our offensive line lost that game, and if you want to see what I was ACTUALLY complaining about that year, go check the visitor message I left Hawgdriver BEFORE the game. Nothing about NTs, but a lot about the garbage line that was about to cost us a championship.

We done here? Good.

Slick

02-04-2016, 09:13 AM

Joel destroyed you.

02-04-2016, 09:45 AM

Joel destroyed you.

:(

I'm gonna go hang myself.

Ravage!!!

02-04-2016, 11:03 AM

Al Wilson 4 Mayor

02-04-2016, 11:58 AM

I'm pretty sure we had Clady, and then drafted another OL in the 2nd round and 4th round. We signed Mathis, and were looking to try and sign Thomas. How is this "ignoring" teh OL??? I know some have the Madden answers, but seriously.

We just had bad luck this year. First Clady goes down, then Hillman shoves Our 2nd round pick to the ground from behind tearing something in his shoulder. Our interior has had its ups and downs but it hadn't been the glaring weakness our tackles have been since we've been playing our 3rd, 4th, and 5th string tackles.

Ravage!!!

02-04-2016, 12:49 PM

We just had bad luck this year. First Clady goes down, then Hillman shoves Our 2nd round pick to the ground from behind tearing something in his shoulder. Our interior has had its ups and downs but it hadn't been the glaring weakness our tackles have been since we've been playing our 3rd, 4th, and 5th string tackles.

Yeah..I personally wouldn't throw Hillman under the bus on that, but point is Elway hasn't "ignored" the OL. He had a healthy Clady and spent 2 of our top 4 picks on more OL...after signing a top OL from SD in 2014 .... then goes and signs what "seemed" like a top guard from Philly this year.... ALSO proposing a trade for the top LT to replace the TWO LTs that went down to injury. It's not like Elway has completely ignored or looked away from the OL. Quite the opposite, actually.

Joel just thinks he has the answers better than anyone. If ONLY we had kept Tebow, than none of this would have been an issue!

Al Wilson 4 Mayor

02-04-2016, 01:15 PM

Yashahla17

02-04-2016, 07:49 PM

One thing for sure is I believe the offensive line will be awesome next year.

Joel

02-04-2016, 11:26 PM

I'm pretty sure we had Clady, and then drafted another OL in the 2nd round and 4th round. We signed Mathis, and were looking to try and sign Thomas. How is this "ignoring" teh OL??? I know some have the Madden answers, but seriously.

Mathis was an eleventh hour signing off the couch; let's not pretend he was a premium FA we stole for a mere $2 mil+incentives. Or that getting lucky with a LATE 4th and SIXTH round interior lineman was by design; good scouting, maybe, but had C or G been priorities we'd have found someone better before the 100th or 200th pick. Vasquez was a solid signing, yes, but signing/drafting ONE All Pro lineman in FOUR SEASONS isn't "prioritizing the line" when it's as BAD as ours has been.

I'm glad we finally drafted a lineman before the NEXT TO LAST 3RD ROUND PICK (especially given how BAD that penultimate pick of the 3rd's been:) I just wish we'd done it much SOONER than 2015. I bet McGahee, Moreno, Ball, Hillman, Anderson and MANNING do, too.
Top of the VERY SAME PAGE, man: Reading Is Fundamental.

It honestly wouldn't bother me so much if it were simple GM ignorance, but Elway spent the best part of his CAREER living that Hell, including THREE Super Blowouts that looked a like Mannings. Then Shanny came back to build an All Pro line anyway he could, bringing alone one stud from the team where he just won a SB and luring away a HoF Viking about to retire without even REACHING a SB: Lo and behold, an aging Elway retired a champ. But he made Manning re-live Elways OWN professional Hell, with NO linemen saviors.

Elway coaxed Manning to Denver by promising he'd do all he could to ensure Mannings career ended like Elways: Has he kept that promise? Or just tried to rebuild the teams that got him blown out of three SBs of his own? HoF QB; check. Louis Wright; well, we had Champ, now Harris, so check. Mecklenburg; drafted #2 overall, check. Rulon Jones; drafted the round after Miller, check. Elway didn't have Gradishar, but Manning got Ware.

On offense, DT, Decker/Sanders and Welker/Latimer/Fowler are better than the Three Amigos, but subpar blocking still makes Ronnie Winder looks just as much a jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none, while letting CJ Sewell again show flashes without ever truly breaking out as a dominant RB.

Where are the Zimmemans, Schlereths, Nalens, Joneses, Habib/Neils though? Did Elway forget what changed humiliation in his prime to glory in his dotage?

Joel

02-05-2016, 12:07 AM

Yeah..I personally wouldn't throw Hillman under the bus on that, but point is Elway hasn't "ignored" the OL. He had a healthy Clady and spent 2 of our top 4 picks on more OL...after signing a top OL from SD in 2014 .... then goes and signs what "seemed" like a top guard from Philly this year.... ALSO proposing a trade for the top LT to replace the TWO LTs that went down to injury. It's not like Elway has completely ignored or looked away from the OL. Quite the opposite, actually.
I'll throw Hillman under the bus on that: He LOST yardage tackling HIMSELF by running into Sambrailo from behind and ENDING HIS SEASON. How Hillman keeps the starting job I have no idea; I know CJ's hurt a lot (wonder why: Maybe ask the line) but there's Thompson, Bibbs, or even ball boys who'd probably do better.

Anyway, IGNORING the line for THREE YEARS isn't magically stopped by FINALLY spending "two of our top four picks" (i.e. a late 2nd and 4th rounder, though the end of the 2nd's still higher than ANY OTHER LINEMAN ELWAY'S DRAFTED IN FOUR YEARS of CRAP LINE COSTING US CHAMPIONSHIPS.) Mathis "seemed" like such a top guard he sat on his couch by a silent phone until two weeks before Opening Day, then signed with us for $2 mil+incentives: Sound like "top guard" money?

Elway response to THREE starters retiring or bolting for more money was signing ONE starting quality replacement (i.e. Vasquez.) In three seasons: Great job.

Joel just thinks he has the answers better than anyone. If ONLY we had kept Tebow, than none of this would have been an issue!
What the Hell's Tebow got to do with ANYTHING? It's been four years: Past time you flipped that broken record.

Ravage!!!

02-05-2016, 12:14 AM

I'll throw Hillman under the bus on that: He LOST yardage tackling HIMSELF by running into Sambrailo from behind and ENDING HIS SEASON. How Hillman keeps the starting job I have no idea; I know CJ's hurt a lot (wonder why: Maybe ask the line) but there's Thompson, Bibbs, or even ball boys who'd probably do better.
then you are being totally ridiculous and absurd. But, whats new, right?

Why he keeps the job? Probably because he's just as good as CJ, and YOUR coach likes him in the starting lineup. But then, it's not hard to believe that you don't have an eye for whats on the field.

Anyway, IGNORING the line for THREE YEARS isn't magically stopped by spending "two of our top four picks" (i.e. a late 2nd and 4th rounder, though the end of the 2nd's still higher than ANY OTHER LINEMAN ELWAY'S DRAFTED IN FOUR YEARS of CRAP LINE COSTING US CHAMPIONSHIPS) in the last year. Mathis "seemed" like such a top guard he sat on his couch by a silent phone until two weeks before Opening Day, then signed with us for $2 mil+incentives: Sound like "top guard" money?

ANYWAY.. you can't keep sounding off about ignoring the OL when the very actions done completely contradict your lousy points. Injuries happen. Just because you THINK the team should take an OL in the first round, doesn't mean that there was an OL worth the picking or one they wanted. Stop trying to sound like a draft expert when you continue to prove otherwise.

What the Hell's Tebow got to do with ANYTHING? It's been four years: Past time you flipped that broken record.
Is it? You are the one that sounded off about THAT mistake, why shouldn't we point out just how much you can rant on and on about your lousy wants and "beliefs" in how Elway is messing up? This is just another example of you exaggerating the mistakes of the FO, and you telling everyone how much YOU know better...... Just.like.with.tebow.

Joel

02-05-2016, 12:46 AM

then you are being totally ridiculous and absurd. But, whats new, right?

Why he keeps the job? Probably because he's just as good as CJ, and YOUR coach likes him in the starting lineup. But then, it's not hard to believe that you don't have an eye for whats on the field.
Yeah, I disagree with "my" coach there: Just because I GENERALLY agree with him doesn't mean I think he's infallible (though I still hope he's just saved oft-injured CJ for the SB, since Hillman's actually NOT "just as good" and, in fact, CJ consistently outperforms him.)

ANYWAY.. you can't keep sounding off about ignoring the OL when the very actions done completely contradict your lousy points. Injuries happen. Just because you THINK the team should take an OL in the first round, doesn't mean that there was an OL worth the picking or one they wanted. Stop trying to sound like a draft expert when you continue to prove otherwise.

Is it? You are the one that sounded off about THAT mistake, why shouldn't we point out just how much you can rant on and on about your lousy wants and "beliefs" in how Elway is messing up? This is just another example of you exaggerating the mistakes of the FO, and you telling everyone how much YOU know better...... Just.like.with.tebow.
YOU brought up Tebow, way out of left field. It's been four years: The only thing 2011 has to do with 2015 is that WE IGNORED OUR AWFUL LINE THE WHOLE TIME.

Keep making excuses for us LOSING to LESSER teams and being perennial also-rans when we even REACH a SB: Elway's flawless, THE PROGRAM IS ROCK SOLID11:rolleyes:

Ravage!!!

02-05-2016, 10:54 AM

Yeah, I disagree with "my" coach there: Just because I GENERALLY agree with him doesn't mean I think he's infallible (though I still hope he's just saved oft-injured CJ for the SB, since Hillman's actually NOT "just as good" and, in fact, CJ consistently outperforms him.)

YOU brought up Tebow, way out of left field. It's been four years: The only thing 2011 has to do with 2015 is that WE IGNORED OUR AWFUL LINE THE WHOLE TIME.

Keep making excuses for us LOSING to LESSER teams and being perennial also-rans when we even REACH a SB: Elway's flawless, THE PROGRAM IS ROCK SOLID11:rolleyes:

Yeah... also rans. We are horrible, and a horrible franchise. The ONLY team in the NFL that has had to suffer through OL injuries and weaknesses. How is it possible that we dont' have EVERY position locked down with pro-bowlers and pro-bowl back-ups (even 3rd level at some positions). No... its not enough to have signed FA and draft... those signees need to be ROCK solid, or its a weakness on the FO!!

I still can't figure out why you don't have a job in the NFL with all your insight and foresight as to what player to take and where to grab said player. It's astounding the amount of knowledge that is just sitting there, at home, at the computer typing....and its not going to better use. Have you tried sending reports via email to Elway?? Send him your tips and insights as to who we should be signing and removing from the roster. Send emails to Kubiak as well, since you seem to have a nailed-on "visual" as to whom should be starting and who shouldn't be. I'm sure they would soon see the knowledge that you posses, just like the rest of us.

Joel

02-05-2016, 11:07 AM

Meh, Dennison will get us right on the line; Elway took my BIGGEST suggestion by hiring him, Kubiak and Phillips—I just wish he'd done it a year sooner. This years Manning with NEXT years line an extra year of learning Kubiaks playbook... we'd demolish Carolina, and wouldn't have needed an OT tiebreak to clinch homefield.... :(

Ravage!!!

02-05-2016, 11:13 AM

Yeah..because Kubiakis known for having "demolishing" offenses. :yawn:

Joel

02-05-2016, 12:08 PM

Yeah..because Kubiakis known for having "demolishing" offenses. :yawn:
Now you're getting it; glad we've reached a consensus at last.

NightTerror218

02-05-2016, 12:20 PM

Yeah..because Kubiakis known for having "demolishing" offenses. :yawn:

98 season ring a bell?

Yashahla17

02-05-2016, 02:50 PM

98 season ring a bell?

Long time ago, defenses were much slower back then as well. However kubiak is the one that often holds the offense back this season with very conservative and scary safe play calling.

Joel

02-05-2016, 03:39 PM

98 season ring a bell?
Supposedly that was all Shanny. Just as Shanny transformed Arian Foster from UDFA to All Pro, and the pitiful 2012 Ravens offense into the powerful 2013 version.

Kubiak's supposedly a failure because he didn't win a SB with an expansion team that never even had a WINNING SEASON before he arrived. He got them that winning season, then division titles, then playoff wins, but never got the SB because he doesn't know how to run a D and Schaub's a bum. Wade fixed the D in a single season, but McNair never allowed Kubiak better than a late 5th round pick to upgrade Schaub; I doubt Elway will screw him like that.

Joel

02-05-2016, 04:15 PM

Long time ago, defenses were much slower back then as well. However kubiak is the one that often holds the offense back this season with very conservative and scary safe play calling.
Yeah, Terrell Davis only ran for 2000 yds because those old people were so slow. And Kubiak should've taken more chances with a QB in his first half dozen starts, behind a line my grandmother could knock down with no fear they'd respond in kind.

After this, why don't you drop by a Cowboys site and inform them Landry was a moron and Emmitt and Dorsett are overrated because everyone was slower then? Just because tearing down HoFers is the only way you know to build up backups from your favorite college (or whatever your man-crush on Oz is.)

Al Wilson 4 Mayor

02-05-2016, 04:29 PM

Long time ago, defenses were much slower back then as well. However kubiak is the one that often holds the offense back this season with very conservative and scary safe play calling.

Does Deion Sanders ring a bell? How about Darrel Green? You have no idea what you're talking about here.

Athletes in the 90's were just as big and fast as they are today.

Ravage!!!

02-05-2016, 05:00 PM

Does Deion Sanders ring a bell? How about Darrel Green? You have no idea what you're talking about here.

Athletes in the 90's were just as big and fast as they are today.

yash has no clue what he's talking about..... he's new to football and only knows the last 5 years of the game.

Ravage!!!

02-05-2016, 05:03 PM

Long time ago, defenses were much slower back then as well.

Although I think Kubiak is HIGHLY over-rated by a few on the boards, I think this statement here has got to be one of the most ignorant that I've ever seen typed out.

Yashahla17

02-05-2016, 09:05 PM

Does Deion Sanders ring a bell? How about Darrel Green? You have no idea what you're talking about here.

Athletes in the 90's were just as big and fast as they are today.

You're really listing two players to say thousands of other nfl defenders are fast? Lmao. You are clueless if you think nfl defenses are anywhere near as fast back then as they are now. It's really no comparison.

Yashahla17

02-05-2016, 09:09 PM

Although I think Kubiak is HIGHLY over-rated by a few on the boards, I think this statement here has got to be one of the most ignorant that I've ever seen typed out.

What in the hell are you talking about? Your the ignorant one if you think nfl defenses now days aren't faster. Players have been getting bigger and faster like every decade.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor

02-05-2016, 09:51 PM

You're really listing two players to say thousands of other nfl defenders are fast? Lmao. You are clueless if you think nfl defenses are anywhere near as fast back then as they are now. It's really no comparison.

Uh, probably the 2 fastest players to ever play the game.

Yeah, you're right. There's been a complete genetic overhaul in 18 years. How old are you, 16?

This proves racism doesn't make people smarter.

Yashahla17

02-06-2016, 01:33 AM

Listing two players to say an entire decade of players are fast is flat out ignorance. Of course you think your flawed logic makes sense so there's no point in discussing this with someone whose proud of and stands behind there foolishness.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor

02-06-2016, 01:40 AM

TXBRONC

02-06-2016, 10:01 AM

You're really listing two players to say thousands of other nfl defenders are fast? Lmao. You are clueless if you think nfl defenses are anywhere near as fast back then as they are now. It's really no comparison.

Al is right in that overall speed of the game hasn't changed since about the '90s. Now the '70s and '80s the players overall were not as fast as they are today or in the '90s but it's relative. They were fast for their era.

Al and Rav are not clueless nor are thin skinned. You would do well to learn from them.

Joel

02-06-2016, 06:09 PM

Yashahla17

02-06-2016, 09:33 PM

Joel you still don't make sense buddy. I see much hasn't changed. Like I said listing two players is a poor example. Players every decade has gotten faster

Davii

02-06-2016, 10:28 PM

Joel

02-06-2016, 11:33 PM

Joel you still don't make sense buddy. I see much hasn't changed. Like I said listing two players is a poor example. Players every decade has gotten faster
You said, "standing behind there" instead of "standing behind their" and your very next word was "foolishness." Yea for ironic self-rebutting arguments.

Joel

02-06-2016, 11:43 PM

8491
There are infinite possibilities between certain defeat and victory: But there are always so many closer to the former that I want to use everything controllable to stack the deck toward the latter. Nothing—NOTHING—is more offensively important than the line, not even a HoF QB; Elway proved that getting blown out of SBs AND winning two straight. Sometimes a great line AND good QB's insufficient, as Rapistburger and Romo proved this year: But the line's ALWAYS REQUIRED.

I like our chances better with this D, a great line and Oz than with this D, a bad line and Manning. We can still win tomorrow, but it'll be an uphill battle, IMHO. And it absolutely didn't have to be; it boggles my mind how and WHY Elway let it happen knowing what he does about his history and Mannings state.