Pat Kirwan breaks down very predictable Broncos offense that NE could expose

[Tned]

Here is a video breakdown of the tendencies the Broncos showed (I think this was just the Pitt game) in terms of what they ran out of what formation and on what downs, and at least the way he broke it down, some pretty predictable trends.

It's worth the few minutes to watch.

https://realfootballnetwork.com/2016/01/19/breaking-down-peyton/

[Northman]

I know its pretty predictable that our defense will put a hurting on Brady.

[Tned]

I know its pretty predictable that our defense will put a hurting on Brady.

If history is an indicator, Brady in Denver.... Go Broncos!!!

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Here is a video breakdown of the tendencies the Broncos showed (I think this was just the Pitt game) in terms of what they ran out of what formation and on what downs, and at least the way he broke it down, some pretty predictable trends.

It's worth the few minutes to watch.

https://realfootballnetwork.com/2016/01/19/breaking-down-peyton/

The Patriots have known for years what's coming with this offense and have always had trouble with it.

[artie_dale]

Ugh... Pats' D is smart enough to figure this stuff out. Wonder if Kubes is going to open it up and I wonder if we can only run in this formations. I don't think Peyton can only play to manage this next game. He's gotta be Peyton of 3 yrs ago and put big numbers that conclude with each drive ending in TDs. I think our D will put pressure on Brady which will hopefully lead to mistakes, but I still think their O can score on our D so it'll be up to our O to either keep it close or run away with it. And we have to score continuously in BOTH HALVES.

[underrated29]

The pats* ran the ball 8 times. That is predictable.

[Buff]

I am really torn on this - because on one hand the strategy that has gotten us here is to play super conservative, limit turnovers and mistakes, and rely on the defense... But I just don't have any faith in that strategy working against a Brady/Gronk/Edelman offense that averages 28 points a game.

I think we just have to roll the dice and open things up - go back to the shotgun/no huddle and take our chances that Manning can limit his INTs for one day. I think that gives us a better chance than sticking to the script and hoping our defense stops Brady all day long.

[artie_dale]

I am really torn on this - because on one hand the strategy that has gotten us here is to play super conservative, limit turnovers and mistakes, and rely on the defense... But I just don't have any faith in that strategy working against a Brady/Gronk/Edelman offense that averages 28 points a game.

I think we just have to roll the dice and open things up - go back to the shotgun/no huddle and take our chances that Manning can limit his INTs for one day. I think that gives us a better chance than sticking to the script and hoping our defense stops Brady all day long.

Right. I'm concerned our run will be ineffective. Why wouldn't the Pats try to make us a one dimensional team by forcing Peyton to beat them with his arm?

[Tned]

The real issue is just some of the tendencies. While I didn't break it down like Kirwan, I'm sure we've all noticed that the vast majority of times that Manning audibles into a play where he's under center, they run the ball.

In an ideal world, they would add a little more audible under center, and then throw a play action, wide receiver screen, etc.

[Buff]

Speaking of tendencies, the audible "arrow" is a run up the middle every time. I hope we have finally scrapped that.

[jlarsiii]

I am really torn on this - because on one hand the strategy that has gotten us here is to play super conservative, limit turnovers and mistakes, and rely on the defense... But I just don't have any faith in that strategy working against a Brady/Gronk/Edelman offense that averages 28 points a game.

I think we just have to roll the dice and open things up - go back to the shotgun/no huddle and take our chances that Manning can limit his INTs for one day. I think that gives us a better chance than sticking to the script and hoping our defense stops Brady all day long.

I think they can go to the no huddle hurry up to try and mix things up if they need to, but our offense is what it is at this point in time and trying to veer away from that is inviting disaster. The Manning of past years isn't coming back so if we try to force him back into that mold we will have turnovers and this game will get ugly.

We ride or die with the defense, and hope that the offense is more efficient then in the last game (drops, settling for field goals, etc.). Limit the offensive mistakes and put pressure on NE to execute long drives all day long...

[Buff]

I think they can go to the no huddle hurry up to try and mix things up if they need to, but our offense is what it is at this point in time and trying to veer away from that is inviting disaster. The Manning of past years isn't coming back so if we try to force him back into that mold we will have turnovers and this game will get ugly.

We ride or die with the defense, and hope that the offense is more efficient then in the last game (drops, settling for field goals, etc.). Limit the offensive mistakes and put pressure on NE to execute long drives all day long...

Right - I definitely see the logic for this. It's been our identity all year long. But realistically, I don't think it's good enough to beat the Patriots. I'd rather live dangerously and risk a 5 turnover game where we have a 4-5 TD ceiling, as opposed to hoping that we can squeak out a 20-17 game.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

This is no new revelation. I think we'll stick with what we do because the ZBS is something the Patriots have always struggled with. Their front 7 is big, but they lack speed on the edge.

[VonDoom]

I am really torn on this - because on one hand the strategy that has gotten us here is to play super conservative, limit turnovers and mistakes, and rely on the defense... But I just don't have any faith in that strategy working against a Brady/Gronk/Edelman offense that averages 28 points a game.

I think we just have to roll the dice and open things up - go back to the shotgun/no huddle and take our chances that Manning can limit his INTs for one day. I think that gives us a better chance than sticking to the script and hoping our defense stops Brady all day long.

I was thinking about this, and I tend to agree. My only concern with that (besides the potential for a four INT day) is that our running game has gotten better during the course of a game, as the defense wears down, especially at altitude. The only way that works, though, is if we have been committed to the run from the start. There's no reason we can't run out of shotgun/no huddle early to at least try and generate something. Kind of like ...


The real issue is just some of the tendencies. While I didn't break it down like Kirwan, I'm sure we've all noticed that the vast majority of times that Manning audibles into a play where he's under center, they run the ball.

In an ideal world, they would add a little more audible under center, and then throw a play action, wide receiver screen, etc.

Kubiak needs to address the tendencies this week. I'd like to show things that we haven't shown so far, and the easiest way to do that is to mix up what formations we run and pass out of. Earlier in the year, it looked like Manning couldn't take a snap under center and drop back. The last couple of games he looks a little more comfortable, so I'd like to at least have that option on the table. If Pat Kirwan can write this up in a couple of days, you know Belichick is ten times more on top of it. Talent isn't in our favor on offense, so we have to try to do something - anything - to make them hesitate just a little bit. Oh, and not drop passes all day.

[Davii]

Right - I definitely see the logic for this. It's been our identity all year long. But realistically, I don't think it's good enough to beat the Patriots. I'd rather live dangerously and risk a 5 turnover game where we have a 4-5 TD ceiling, as opposed to hoping that we can squeak out a 20-17 game.

What if we stick to our identity but make some changes? For instance, instead of running straight up the middle from a certain formation, put it in that formation and do it the first time, the second time in that formation do a play action pass or something. Mixing things up early will give them pause if they don't see in reality what they saw on film and will make them hesitate just enough when they see it again later in the game.

Or something. I don't know.

[Northman]

Right. I'm concerned our run will be ineffective. Why wouldn't the Pats try to make us a one dimensional team by forcing Peyton to beat them with his arm?

The Patriot defense is horrid vs the run, thats how KC got into trouble because they went away from it. If the Pat's try to blitz than Manning can expose them through the air but its going to take a lot for NE to stop our run game unlike what they did last time. The key will again be our defense and whether or not they can slow down the Pats offense.

[VonDoom]

The Patriot defense is horrid vs the run, thats how KC got into trouble because they went away from it. If the Pat's try to blitz than Manning can expose them through the air but its going to take a lot for NE to stop our run game unlike what they did last time. The key will again be our defense and whether or not they can slow down the Pats offense.

Didn't someone (Collins?) get hurt in that first game? Our run splits before and after he went out were stark. Overall, NE was 9th in rushing yards allowed, which doesn't sound too bad.

[Northman]

Didn't someone (Collins?) get hurt in that first game? Our run splits before and after he went out were stark. Overall, NE was 9th in rushing yards allowed, which doesn't sound too bad.

I dont recall the running game hurting in the first meeting. The problem for Denver the first time around was we fell behind by 3 scores early and had to pass more to get back into it so thats why there was a contrast in the runs from 1st half to second. NE isnt dead last in running defense, but they can be run on. Out of their 4 losses 3 of the teams (Denver being one of them) ran for over 150 yds on them. I disagree with the mantra that Denver needs to come out firing in this game. You only fire if you necessarily have to, but until it gets to that point you stick with the gameplan and trust your defense. If we come out firing guns a blazing and have 3 Ints in the first half than you have already lost. No need to get sloppy, stick with the boring gameplan and hope the #1 defense in the NFL can make some plays as well as the offense moving the ball with balance and methodically. This team is no longer a high powered offense, it just isnt so people wishing it was isnt going to happen.

[BroncoWave]

I'm with Buff here. If you are being honest with yourself and looking at facts, the Patriots are a better team than us on paper. That certainly doesn't mean we can't beat them, but if you are the underdog, you want as much variance as possible. Playing it safe isn't the way to beat the Pats. You just have to open it up and hope the variance is on your side.

If we stick to the same game plan we used against Pitt, I think the Pats will steamroll us.

[chazoe60]

I'm with Buff here. If you are being honest with yourself and looking at facts, the Patriots are a better team than us on paper. That certainly doesn't mean we can't beat them, but if you are the underdog, you want as much variance as possible. Playing it safe isn't the way to beat the Pats. You just have to open it up and hope the variance is on your side.

If we stick to the same game plan we used against Pitt, I think the Pats will steamroll us.

How are they a better team than us on paper? They have a shit OL (maybe even shittier than ours) and like Tom Nalen, I don't see a single player on their Defense that would start on ours. Maybe Collins but that's it. They one great WR, one great TE, and a ******* dink and dunk magician QB, other than that we have more talent.

[BroncoWave]

How are they a better team than us on paper? They have a shit OL (maybe even shittier than ours) and like Tom Nalen, I don't see a single player on their Defense that would start on ours. Maybe Collins but that's it. They one great WR, one great TE, and a ******* dink and dunk magician QB, other than that we have more talent.

They have a way better coach and a way better qb and that makes up for everything else. There is a reason they are favored despite being on the road. They are a better team. Again we absolutely could beat them, but it's not the most likely outcome IMO.

[Northman]

They had a better coach and QB in 2013 as well. I guess i just dont see how much better they are compared to us as they have their own problems on that team.

[underrated29]

They have a better system than us and a better coach but they are not a better team than us. They do not have more talent than us.

Tom has the luxury of running his scheme that he is familiar with and his coach for the past 10+ years.

We have a new HC, a new OC and an entirely new scheme that we have to work with. That is their advantage. Hopefully, it will not equate to them winning as we advance to the SB and send peyton out on top!

[weazel]

Broncos will stick with what they have done all season, thinking they will change now is just wishful thinking. The only way I see the Broncos winning this game is if the defense plays out of their minds.

[chazoe60]

They have a way better coach and a way better qb and that makes up for everything else. There is a reason they are favored despite being on the road. They are a better team. Again we absolutely could beat them, but it's not the most likely outcome IMO.

There's more to a team than QB and Coach. In fact I would say this game is a great example of what's more important HC and QB or the entirety of a team. Our Team is decidedly better as a whole IMHO but yes they do have us in those two most important positions.

[BroncoWave]

There's more to a team than QB and Coach. In fact I would say this game is a great example of what's more important HC and QB or the entirety of a team. Our Team is decidedly better as a whole IMHO but yes they do have us in those two most important positions.

I agree we have more overall talent, but I think their system and coaching makes up for it. Again, this is just my opinion. I think this game is pretty close to a tossup, but I would give them the slight edge.

[BroncoWave]

They had a better coach and QB in 2013 as well. I guess i just dont see how much better they are compared to us as they have their own problems on that team.

We had a waaaaaayyyyyy better QB in 2013 than we have now. So not really a comparable example.

[tripp]

How hard are the Patriots gonna try and pancake Schofield on virtually every play? Him and Harris scare me. If there's one coach that's going to take advantage of that glaring weakness, it's Bill. I hope we have something to counteract that. Maybe take something out of Brady's playbook and run short crossing routes?

[NightTerror218]

You may know the Broncos are running but as long as broncos execute properly this offense is hard to stop, slow down yes but not stop. RB are the key, they read which gap to hit and when, cut and burst.

With the OL playing better of course but if they get pushed around then offense is in trouble.

Against Steelers the first half seemed more like first portion of season with manning and lost of passing 3:1 ratio. 2nd half seemed more like Kubiak system a little more even.

[NightTerror218]

How hard are the Patriots gonna try and pancake Schofield on virtually every play? Him and Harris scare me. If there's one coach that's going to take advantage of that glaring weakness, it's Bill. I hope we have something to counteract that. Maybe take something out of Brady's playbook and run short crossing routes?

Do what Oz did first game expose a RB slipping just behind DL and open middle of field for quick pass and decent gain.

[OrangeHoof]

Didn't someone (Collins?) get hurt in that first game? Our run splits before and after he went out were stark. Overall, NE was 9th in rushing yards allowed, which doesn't sound too bad.

Scoring first is going to be very important because we can't be playing catch-up and running a balanced offense. That's why the Pats have a statistically good rush defense is because teams abandon the run when they fall well behind.

I want to see their defense get winded from chasing down sweeps and screens early and put in a hurry up on 2-3 drives to wear them down. Make them run around a lot at altitude. This is the week to break tendencies.

[broncofaninfla]

We'll have to open it up on offense to win this game, no way around it. I may get flamed for saying this but I'd feel a lot better if Brock were in there over Manning. Brocks passes get there quicker than Mannings and he tends to throw better on deeper routes. We won't be able to get by dinking and dunking this game, especially against a defense who sees it daily practicing against the Patriot offense.

Side note: I'd like nothing more than to see Peyton win the next two games and ride off into the sunset a champion but at this point I personally have more faith in Brocks abilities over Peytons. I hope I'm wrong.......

[weazel]

as long as the Broncos can keep it close I believe the run game will get going if they stick to it. The opposition always has a tough time in the 4th in Denver, I don't think people realize just how much of an advantage that is. They just can't let the Pat's get ahead by too much before that or they have to rely on Manning's arm and that just isn't going to work anymore.

[tripp]

Do what Oz did first game expose a RB slipping just behind DL and open middle of field for quick pass and decent gain.

Let's hope CJ can catch a pass wide open this time.

But you're right, there is a lot of ways to counteract that which I'm not aware of. Let's hope we take advantage of Sanders speed this game and burn some of those DB's.

[Joel]

The real issue is just some of the tendencies. While I didn't break it down like Kirwan, I'm sure we've all noticed that the vast majority of times that Manning audibles into a play where he's under center, they run the ball.

In an ideal world, they would add a little more audible under center, and then throw a play action, wide receiver screen, etc.
The biggest tendency I've noted and worried about all year is the largest one Kirwan noted: Shotgun=pass, under center=run, with VERY few exceptions. But it is even more alarming to learn even those exceptions are invariably in a SINGLE situation (i.e. the 2nd down shotgun runs and 1st down deep balls from under center.)

In the gameday thread, my first comment DURING the game was relief that we threw from under center AND it worked (our first snap: The ~15 yd out to DT that kept us at 1st and 10.) I've wanted a lot more of that all year, and still do (FWIW, that pass wasn't really short, but definitely wasn't deep either.) Same with shotgun runs: When a 1st down pass misses, coming back with a 2nd and long shotgun run is deceptive and effective—unless we ALWAYS do it: That's just defective.

I like and still have faith in Kubiak and Manning, but wish they'd mix it up more. More shotgun draws, and on 1st down, when the formations more likely to draw defenders away from the play in the belief we're going for a kill shot whose failure would still leave two downs to convert. More passes from under center, and on 2nd down, when the formation's more likely to convince defenders it's a rushing attempt to "get back on schedule." Also:

GET RID OF THE 3RD AND SHORT EMPTY SET! The great thing about 3rd and short is having the whole playbook, but that's not true if we RIP OUT HALF OF IT. Why play 3rd and short like a 3rd and long play where the bad guys KNOW it's a pass? If you want to pass, fine, but don't TELL them!

I wish we ran many kinds of plays out of a few formations instead of a few plays out of many kinds of formatons. The second may be easier for young offensive linemen to learn, but it's also easier for defenses to learn. If they know we'll never call anything but a post, slant, off tackle run or sweep, which of countless FORMATIONS we use for those four plays matters far less than the fact we only run four different plays in ANY formation.

Here's hoping our playcallers (on and off the field) have just saved their bag of tricks for getting to and winning the SB. 'Cause I bet Belichick's saved plenty for just that purpose, on both sides of the ball.

[nevcraw]

against Pitt. they didn't need to do too much besides the vanilla stuff. They were all freaking Field Goals until the end but they still moved the ball into scoring range with some regularity. of course they are going to adjust to take advantage of match ups. love kirwan but what they did against the steelers a has no bearing on this week. who know's they may finally fire up Vernon Davis.
Kubiak is going to run his thing but they will adjust to find their shots against the pats.. if they don't turn the ball over and the defense does it's job I expect the broncos to be able to win this thing. and for the love of god - the players need to do their jobs and catch those balls... no turn over no drops and the defense doesn't break and we win.
soooo simple!

[NightTerror218]

against Pitt. they didn't need to do too much besides the vanilla stuff. They were all freaking Field Goals until the end but they still moved the ball into scoring range with some regularity. of course they are going to adjust to take advantage of match ups. love kirwan but what they did against the steelers a has no bearing on this week. who know's they may finally fire up Vernon Davis.
Kubiak is going to run his thing but they will adjust to find their shots against the pats.. if they don't turn the ball over and the defense does it's job I expect the broncos to be able to win this thing. and for the love of god - the players need to do their jobs and catch those balls... no turn over no drops and the defense doesn't break and we win.
soooo simple!

Because they only had to get like 2 first downs to be in FG range. Denver was given great field position most of game.

[tripp]

We've gotta give Vernon Davis another shot this sunday. He can make some plays given the chance. I like him the red zone once we get there.

[I Eat Staples]

They have a way better coach and a way better qb and that makes up for everything else. There is a reason they are favored despite being on the road. They are a better team. Again we absolutely could beat them, but it's not the most likely outcome IMO.

Yep, in football coach and QB are so much more important than everything else that they usually decide games. Hopefully this isn't one of those cases, and/or our QB plays a lot better.


They had a better coach and QB in 2013 as well. I guess i just dont see how much better they are compared to us as they have their own problems on that team.

They didn't have a better QB in 2013.

[NightTerror218]

We've gotta give Vernon Davis another shot this sunday. He can make some plays given the chance. I like him the red zone once we get there.

If he is willing to put his body on the line and not be scared of getting hit.

[Joel]

Because they only had to get like 2 first downs to be in FG range. Denver was given great field position most of game.
Bingo, and it wasn't just Pitt either: As Tned noted, it's been like this ALL YEAR. Kirwan just documented it with last weeks game, but the same could be done with virtually any or ALL our games. That's not much reason to expect next week will be any different; just the opposite.

This whole business of "oh, but last week was only like that because Pitt sold out on the run and dared us to beat them on Mannings arm:" No kidding, that's what EVERYONE'S done since THE MIDDLE OF 2013, when McCoy (who ought to know) proved it WORKS. We might barrel through the Cheats' run D (would hardly be the first time) but if we don't figure out how to run when the D expects it, without US selling out on it, we can't beat Carolina nor Arizona, with ANY QB.

[Northman]

They didn't have a better QB in 2013.

Way to totally miss the point.

[tomjonesrocks]

It seems like every incomplete first down pass is a smash cut to a 3rd and long - the 2nd down run play is so telegraphed.

I hope we see some pass plays on 2nd and 10 this week.

[Joel]

It seems like every incomplete first down pass is a smash cut to a 3rd and long - the 2nd down run play is so telegraphed.

I hope we see some pass plays on 2nd and 10 this week.
Can't argue with that. I wonder how much our team stats guys break down our OWN tendencies just for the sake of, well, breaking down our tendencies.

[BroncoWave]

It seems like every incomplete first down pass is a smash cut to a 3rd and long - the 2nd down run play is so telegraphed.

I hope we see some pass plays on 2nd and 10 this week.

Seriously, we do it every god damn time. Even my girlfriend, who understands very little about football and only watches it because it's what's on in the house is starting to predict those 2nd and 10 runs before they happen. Such a waste of a damn play. Like, if that gets us more than 3 yards 1 out of every 10 times we do it I'd be shocked.

[Ravage!!!]

without watching the vid (will in a second) .. I knwo that when we have 2nd and 10, we RUN the ball EVERY FRIGGIN time, for 0-1 yrd.

[underrated29]

without watching the vid (will in a second) .. I knwo that when we have 2nd and 10, we RUN the ball EVERY FRIGGIN time, for 0-1 yrd.



Care to guess who that RB usually is?
:D

[Ravage!!!]

Care to guess who that RB usually is?
:D

Whichever RB is in the lineup. CJ doesn't impress me at all, but not getting into this stupid argument. Hillman is just as good as CJ, and its why he's getting the carries.

[Ravage!!!]

But this film break down is just against the Steelers.

Every team gets a different game plan...so I'm absolutely certain that the Broncos had a game plan t hat fit the things they saw from the Steelers game tape. I know there are tendencies in offenses across the board...it's what made Shanahan such an offensive genius.

The Patriots defense isn't strong against the run. I don't think we should come out and throw the ball from Peytons' olf offensive scheme (the one in which he led the NFL in INTs this year) and abandon what's been working.

Despite the Chiefs not having much on offense on the outside, and down to their 3rd RB, they were IN the game against the Patriots. Brady was just on fire hitting his WRs in 2.3 seconds to eleviate teh running game. They will do the same thing this week. They know Brady can't hold onto the ball, and Tom will NOT give our guys time to get to him. So we will be frustrated with the pressure, at first especially.

What we can't do, is allow them the big plays. We can't miss the tackles, and on offense we can't drop the passes so that we can keep the 3rd downs short. POUND The rock against their defense, as it will wear them down (which WILL be imporant again at the end of the game) and will keep *Brady on the sidelines.

Defense HAS to be patient, and not get frustrated and commit the "roughing the passer" penalty that our guys have a tendency to get when they have been stopped for a while. DBs have to take chances and press cover, make that window TIGHT as possible. *Tom is accurate as hell, but if he hesitates just .5 seconds, that could be enough to finally start getting some pressure on him.

We will NOT have many sacks this game. Their line is bad (not as bad as ours)..but *Brady is the best about getting rid of it to Edelman (douche) so quickly.

[underrated29]

Im worried of a couple things.


1. The pats* are going to call a lot of screens,etc to limit our pass rush- I hope we dont get caught and play smart there
2. We are going to use that pitch play that worked against them like Gase uses that bubble screen in the SB. It may work a few times, but not 5 times.


I really would consider rushing just 2 lineman sometimes on brady leaving one DE (Shane, shaq, etc) as a spy and drop 8- double all their guys and get an Interception or few on tom.

[underrated29]

Whichever RB is in the lineup. CJ doesn't impress me at all, but not getting into this stupid argument. Hillman is just as good as CJ, and its why he's getting the carries.



Just so you know, CJ is the league leader in Rushing the last 6 weeks including playoffs with like 6+ yards per carry. Just best in the league. I think there is some impressive in there somewhere

[nevcraw]

Because they only had to get like 2 first downs to be in FG range. Denver was given great field position most of game.
5 field goals is 5 field goals. they still had to get there. I only remember one terrible kick by Pitt. and by the way denver played in the same conditions. 3 phase of the game have to be won - same as this week. Playoffs you can't have one of the 3 fail or you go home.

[nevcraw]

anyone give any love to our much maligned punter? he didn't screw the pooch in the game where it would have been excusable.

[BroncoWave]

Just so you know, CJ is the league leader in Rushing the last 6 weeks including playoffs with like 6+ yards per carry. Just best in the league. I think there is some impressive in there somewhere

Have you ever considered that maybe that is made possible by kubes not overusing him? More goes into how carries are split at RB than just who the better player is. It's not like we have an Adrian Peterson on our team who just has to be on the field for every down.

[Ravage!!!]

Have you ever considered that maybe that is made possible by kubes not overusing him? More goes into how carries are split at RB than just who the better player is. It's not like we have an Adrian Peterson on our team who just has to be on the field for every down.

great point. Seems we see the fast RB in early.. hitting the hole quick while their DL is fresh. Then, late in the game, we hit CJ that isn't nearly as fast but a bit stronger against their worn down defense. It's almost an obvious game plan, but that doesn't mean it's not a viable one. We've seen teams throughout the NFL do the same thing for years.

I'm thrilled CJ is doing ok, but I jsut don't see much separation between the two RBs other than speed.

[tomjonesrocks]

without watching the vid (will in a second) .. I knwo that when we have 2nd and 10, we RUN the ball EVERY FRIGGIN time, for 0-1 yrd.

It seems to do a good job of chewing up the clock - which against a high powered offense is useful - but that's really about it.

A short pass (actually caught and not dropped) could do the same thing.

But the "2nd and 10...Hillman...not much running room there..." call is getting really old.

[BroncoWave]

great point. Seems we see the fast RB in early.. hitting the hole quick while their DL is fresh. Then, late in the game, we hit CJ that isn't nearly as fast but a bit stronger against their worn down defense. It's almost an obvious game plan, but that doesn't mean it's not a viable one. We've seen teams throughout the NFL do the same thing for years.

I'm thrilled CJ is doing ok, but I jsut don't see much separation between the two RBs other than speed.

And honestly, Hillman is better at breaking tackles than people give him credit for. I see the hot take every week on here that he never breaks a tackle, but I see him do it every week.

[underrated29]

Have you ever considered that maybe that is made possible by kubes not overusing him? More goes into how carries are split at RB than just who the better player is. It's not like we have an Adrian Peterson on our team who just has to be on the field for every down.



It did, but it does not matter. One of our backs is the league leader! Usage be damned! League leader- means he is doing something right. Maybe the league leader might be able to get a few more yards on our obvious 2nd and 10 run play. Lets be honest- nothing else has worked in that situation.

[I Eat Staples]

It seems like CJ is always getting up slowly and limping off the field. He hasn't really looked healthy all year. I imagine he'd be getting more carries if he were, because he's actually been quite effective lately.

[LawDog]

Care to guess who that RB usually is?
:D

Against Pitt last weekend on 2nd and 11, 10, or 9 they did the following:

Hillman - right for 5, right for -1, left for -4

Anderson - right for -1, left for 34, right for 1, middle for 0

Pass - left for 11, left incomplete, middle for 6, right incomplete, right for 3

Reality and perception don't always line up.

[VonDoom]

It seems like CJ is always getting up slowly and limping off the field. He hasn't really looked healthy all year. I imagine he'd be getting more carries if he were, because he's actually been quite effective lately.

I think this is what it comes down to, though I actually think he's much healthier now (relatively) than he was at the beginning of the year. He is injury prone, though, so I suspect they don't want to risk a major injury by having him carry 25 times a game. I think he's better than Hillman, but I can understand wanting to split time fairly evenly right now.

[Ravage!!!]

I think we need to invest heavily in a RB (after OL) this offseason, no matter what.

[Buff]

My main issue with our RB rotation is that they don't have similar skill sets, but we run them interchangeably as if they did. It doesn't take much to bring Ronnie down when running between the tackles. He's slippery, but not powerful. But we continue to use him in early downs between the tackles to minimal success.

CJ doesn't seem durable or tough enough to handle the full load, which forces the staff to use Ronnie more than we should in a perfect world. Credit to Ronnie for his toughness - but we really need to address the position in the offseason.

[BroncoBuckeye73]

To me the key to the game will be aggressive control, we need to be aggressive with their recievers at the line of scrimmage in order to control where Brady has to look to throw, which is hopefully out of bounds or to his fifth option. We have to be aggressive in our play on both offensive and defensive lines of scrimmage, force Brady from his spot on D and control the point of attack along the offensive line. The Patsy D likes to play fast and loose so some misdirection runs and some screens could get them off balance fast allowing us to control the clock and get aggressive in some intermediate throws that could break for long gains for Sanders and DT.

[Joel]

5 field goals is 5 field goals. they still had to get there.
Actually, no, they didn't, hence the stat posted either just before or after the half (I forget which) about how our offenses average STARTING field position was in Pitt territory. When an offense STARTS on the OPPONENTS end for an ENTIRE HALF, it should be kicking the CRAP out of them, not needing a 2:00 Drill for a FG just to TRAIL by a point at the break.


I only remember one terrible kick by Pitt. and by the way denver played in the same conditions. 3 phase of the game have to be won - same as this week. Playoffs you can't have one of the 3 fail or you go home.
I believe the conventional wisdom is "win 2 of 3," but anyway: Our first two scoring drives were off a Pitt punt for ~20 yds and a Bolden return to just outside the Pitt 30. We got all of ONE first down from both drives COMBINED, yet a pair of FGs thanks to their awful STs and our good ones.

The odd thing is that pretty much the ONLY times our offense did ANYTHING were:

1) When Pitt finally managed to pin us inside our 10 before halftime, and CJ busted off a huge run to get us near FG so we could finish that drive with a FG, and

2) After the turnover when we made a bunch of big plays to reach G to go and score the game-winning TD.

Our offense only showed life TWICE, but the first time kept us in the game and the second won it.

Imagine if we did that with ANY kind of consistency. Imagine really hard, because if we want to get to a SB against a Belicheat team, we MUST.

[TXBRONC]

Let's hope CJ can catch a pass wide open this time.

But you're right, there is a lot of ways to counteract that which I'm not aware of. Let's hope we take advantage of Sanders speed this game and burn some of those DB's.

He generally does Tripp and for that matter so does Hillman.

[arapaho2]

I think we need to invest heavily in a RB (after OL) this offseason, no matter what.

I disagree...Oline should be the only target early...you cant invest heavily in a rb because that implies early rounds, you don't invest heavily in a 7th rnd rb

we don't need a superstar back, we need a superstar oline

in 2015 there were only 7 backs that eclipsed a 1000 yards rushing
2014---13
2013-13
2012-16
2011- 15.....its clearly a passing league and two backs are the wave

safety is after the oline imo, is clear how bad the depth was with both ward and stewart out,



OT and Guard should be the focus, depending on what we do with Clady and how Elway really feels about sambrailo

[Ravage!!!]

I disagree...Oline should be the only target early...you cant invest heavily in a rb because that implies early rounds, you don't invest heavily in a 7th rnd rb

we don't need a superstar back, we need a superstar oline

in 2015 there were only 7 backs that eclipsed a 1000 yards rushing
2014---13
2013-13
2012-16
2011- 15.....its clearly a passing league and two backs are the wave

safety is after the oline imo, is clear how bad the depth was with both ward and stewart out,



OT and Guard should be the focus, depending on what we do with Clady and how Elway really feels about sambrailo

I don't believe in investing a high round pick at RB. I never have. But I th ink we need to address the position in a heavy way. Whether that's signing 6 6th round picks or signing some FA's to push the job. We have a bad running game, and I know that has a lot to do with the OL, but the talent at RB is pretty lacking.

Yes..depth at ANY positionis going to be weak when the 1 and 2 are out.