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View Full Version : Playoff football isn’t just about the stars



Denver Native (Carol)
01-18-2016, 08:01 PM
Despite winning on Sunday and advancing to the AFC title game, plenty of people in the Mile High City are skittish this morning. And their discontent is based on one thing: They don’t like the way in which the Broncos beat the Steelers.

This is highlighted by the fact that the best player on the field for Denver wasn’t Peyton Manning, Demaryius Thomas, Von Miller, Chris Harris or any of the other highly paid talent on their roster. Instead, it was a little-known, backup cornerback who spent most of the day leading up to the game feeling as though he had eaten too many mozzarella sticks at the movie theatre or a kicker who had struggled to find his groove late in the season.

Kayvon Webster and Brandon McManus were the unsung heroes against the Steelers. In a game that was about field position, ball control and avoiding mistakes, the reserve cornerback made some huge plays, pinning Pittsburgh deep in their own territory on punt after punt by preventing touchbacks and forcing fumbles. And on a day when the offense had trouble finishing drives, the young kicker was a perfect five-for-five on field goals, splitting the uprights in spite of a brisk crosswind.

Read more at http://milehighsports.com/playoff-football-isnt-just-about-the-stars/#V6JqMx59Ao6GXUqt.99

Good article

Joel
01-18-2016, 08:45 PM
Webster's why I wanted an OT or G instead of Roby: Roby's a great talent, but we needed to replace our many AWFUL starting linemen a LOT more than we needed to replace a really good #4 CB with an even better one. Same reason I wanted this years 1st rounder to go on a stud OT, not a #4 OLB: Not because Shane Ray sucks, but because DeMarcus Ware, Von Miller and Shaq Barrett are BETTER, and our line's not good enough to fix with the drafts 9th best OT nor 15th best G.

Be honest, Broncos fans:

Would you prefer a SB run with Roby, Ray, Schofield and Mathis, or Webster, Barret, 1st round OT and 1st round G? Bearing in mind the defenders are BACKUPS, but the linemen STARTERS. Take your time before answering; think about Mannings age, mobility and limping through the end of the last 2 seasons (including getting banged around from the moment his C snapped the ball past his head in a SB) and how little run support he had diverting literal and figurative pressure: I'll wait....

Timmy!
01-18-2016, 09:12 PM
Webster's why I wanted an OT or G instead of Roby: Roby's a great talent, but we needed to replace our many AWFUL starting linemen a LOT more than we needed to replace a really good #4 CB with an even better one. Same reason I wanted this years 1st rounder to go on a stud OT, not a #4 OLB: Not because Shane Ray sucks, but because DeMarcus Ware, Von Miller and Shaq Barrett are BETTER, and our line's not good enough to fix with the drafts 9th best OT nor 15th best G.

Be honest, Broncos fans:

Would you prefer a SB run with Roby, Ray, Schofield and Mathis, or Webster, Barret, 1st round OT and 1st round G? Bearing in mind the defenders are BACKUPS, but the linemen STARTERS. Take your time before answering; think about Mannings age, mobility and limping through the end of the last 2 seasons (including getting banged around from the moment his C snapped the ball past his head in a SB) and how little run support he had diverting literal and figurative pressure: I'll wait....

I think you're not close to as smart as you think you are.

Joel
01-18-2016, 09:15 PM
I think you're not close to as smart as you think you are.
Stating the self-evident doesn't prove anyone smart, but denying it does prove anyone dumb. Same old, same old

Me: Ya'll are smarter than this!
Others: You're not as smart as you think.

Maybe we're each half right: YA'LL aren't as smart as I think. :tongue:

Timmy!
01-18-2016, 09:21 PM
Stating the self-evident doesn't prove anyone smart, but denying it does prove anyone dumb. Same old, same old

Me: Ya'll are smarter than this!
Others: You're not as smart as you think.

Maybe we're each half right: YA'LL aren't as smart as I think. :tongue:

You said be honest. It's pretty amusing that you didn't want Roby......you know, the guy who made the play that changed the game, but by all means continue with the multi year old OL rant.

P.S. take your snarky little mile high salute messages and shove them up your ass. Say things in public instead of being a Lil bitch.

Davii
01-18-2016, 09:33 PM
Webster's why I wanted an OT or G instead of Roby: Roby's a great talent, but we needed to replace our many AWFUL starting linemen a LOT more than we needed to replace a really good #4 CB with an even better one. Same reason I wanted this years 1st rounder to go on a stud OT, not a #4 OLB: Not because Shane Ray sucks, but because DeMarcus Ware, Von Miller and Shaq Barrett are BETTER, and our line's not good enough to fix with the drafts 9th best OT nor 15th best G.

Be honest, Broncos fans:

Would you prefer a SB run with Roby, Ray, Schofield and Mathis, or Webster, Barret, 1st round OT and 1st round G? Bearing in mind the defenders are BACKUPS, but the linemen STARTERS. Take your time before answering; think about Mannings age, mobility and limping through the end of the last 2 seasons (including getting banged around from the moment his C snapped the ball past his head in a SB) and how little run support he had diverting literal and figurative pressure: I'll wait....

Like the article, I care about wins.

Joel
01-18-2016, 09:43 PM
You said be honest. It's pretty amusing that you didn't want Roby......you know, the guy who made the play that changed the game, but by all means continue with the multi year old OL rant.
I didn't say I didn't want Roby: I said I wanted the G or OT we DESPERATELY needed—and still do. Sadly, that required passing on a stud like Roby for a FAR higher priority. We were never going to lose a SB because Webster played nickel instead of Roby, but we're VERY LIKELY to not even REACH one because Schofield's playing RT. Or Mathis at LG. Or Harris at LT.


P.S. take your snarky little mile high salute messages and shove them up your ass. Say things in public instead of being a Lil bitch.
I said EXACTLY the same publicly: I just saluted with a summary to ensure you saw it. Can we put our penises back in our pants and talk about football now?

Joel
01-18-2016, 09:48 PM
Like the article, I care about wins.
Me, too: That's the point. Playing Roby instead of Webster or Ray instead of Barrett may win a few more games, but playing Franklin or Schofield and Beadles, Ramirez or Mathis HAS lost a LOT more. Including HALF our last 6 playoff games (one of them a SB beatdown.) Maybe I'm crazy, but spending 1st round picks on guys who can't even crack the starting lineup, then spending #95 picks on GAPING holes in the line, doesn't seem "smart."

CrazyHorse
01-18-2016, 11:14 PM
Didn't we draft a tackle in Ty Sambraillo? He got hurt though. So did Clady. Do you think a line with Clady, Garcia, Paradis, Vazquez, and Sambraillo would be that bad?

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
01-18-2016, 11:33 PM
Webster's why I wanted an OT or G instead of Roby: Roby's a great talent, but we needed to replace our many AWFUL starting linemen a LOT more than we needed to replace a really good #4 CB with an even better one. Same reason I wanted this years 1st rounder to go on a stud OT, not a #4 OLB: Not because Shane Ray sucks, but because DeMarcus Ware, Von Miller and Shaq Barrett are BETTER, and our line's not good enough to fix with the drafts 9th best OT nor 15th best G.

Be honest, Broncos fans:

Would you prefer a SB run with Roby, Ray, Schofield and Mathis, or Webster, Barret, 1st round OT and 1st round G? Bearing in mind the defenders are BACKUPS, but the linemen STARTERS. Take your time before answering; think about Mannings age, mobility and limping through the end of the last 2 seasons (including getting banged around from the moment his C snapped the ball past his head in a SB) and how little run support he had diverting literal and figurative pressure: I'll wait....

Joel, if that's to be a credible argument you need to point out offensive linemen the Broncos could have taken at those spots who are just as solid at their jobs as Roby and Ray

TXBRONC
01-18-2016, 11:40 PM
I didn't say I didn't want Roby: I said I wanted the G or OT we DESPERATELY needed—and still do. Sadly, that required passing on a stud like Roby for a FAR higher priority. We were never going to lose a SB because Webster played nickel instead of Roby, but we're VERY LIKELY to not even REACH one because Schofield's playing RT. Or Mathis at LG. Or Harris at LT.


I said EXACTLY the same publicly: I just saluted with a summary to ensure you saw it. Can we put our penises back in our pants and talk about football now?

I suggest you actually read the freaking rules. You're not suppose to use the MHS for snarky comments.

Simple Jaded
01-18-2016, 11:48 PM
Joel, if that's to be a credible argument you need to point out offensive linemen the Broncos could have taken at those spots who are just as solid at their jobs as Roby and Ray

He doesn't follow the draft.

Joel
01-19-2016, 12:30 AM
Didn't we draft a tackle in Ty Sambraillo? He got hurt though. So did Clady. Do you think a line with Clady, Garcia, Paradis, Vazquez, and Sambraillo would be that bad?
Yeah, we drafted Sambrailo at the END of the SECOND round, still higher than ANY other offensive lineman Elway's drafted in FOUR YEARS. "9th best OT in the draft" covered Sambrailo, though I concede "9th OT drafted" doesn't necessarily mean "9th best OT" (but certainly makes it unlikely he's top 5, even in that lone draft.) The year before, we took Roby, then Latimer, then Schofield as the penultimate THIRD round pick (#95) overall: Witness the result.


Joel, if that's to be a credible argument you need to point out offensive linemen the Broncos could have taken at those spots who are just as solid at their jobs as Roby and Ray
No, because Webster and Barrett are both very good at those same jobs (so far, Barrett's been much BETTER than Ray,) so spending those 1st round picks on offensive linemen wouldn't have left us with gaping easily-exploitable holes that singlehandedly ruined our SB chances. The way spending those 1st round picks on them and waiting to draft guys like Schofield HAS?

Seriously, just how MANY Pro Bowl LBs and CBs do we need while the whole league from Schlereth to our beat reporters to our own coaches are publicly saying how awful our line is? Is FOUR of EACH enough, or should we spend next years 1st rounder on a FIFTH, while continuing to wonder whom (if ANYONE) is good enough to guard our QBs blindside? "Manning keeps finishing the last half of the season hurt; better draft a 4th OLB or CB." How's that make any sense? :confused:

If ALL our starting OLBs AND CBs weren't Pro Bowlers, with well-rounded and very impressive #3s behind them, and/or our line was at least adequate most places, I'd understand. But this isn't like when Manning annually shelled us out of the playoffs because we had a rock solid line but NO CBs: It's just the opposite. Back then, Shanny traded Portis for Champ because he knew he had more RBs than CBs, AND spent the TOP THREE PICKS OF A SINGLE DRAFT on CBs

I'm not saying we should go that far, but something similar's in order for our equally bad line, for the exact same reason.

Joel
01-19-2016, 12:35 AM
I suggest you actually read the freaking rules. You're not suppose to use the MHS for snarky comments.
I didn't intend it to be nor feel it was truly snarky, else I wouldn't have made that comment nor the equivalent one in the thread, but YMMV. I'll certainly bear the point in mind when sending (and receiving) future salutes though, because MY odometer says MANY people regularly send salutes as snarky or moreso. At least I didn't "salute" the guy by cussing him out, and I've seen plenty of those from various people, so figured my much milder comment was OK if those were.

NightTerror218
01-19-2016, 12:50 AM
Too bad zone blocking is about finding the right fit for system and not taking the a OT based on armchair coaches and random analysis ranking Sambrailo as "9th" in the draft. He could have easily been #2 for ZBS.

Quit your bitching about never addressing OL in the draft. A 2nd round pick is a good round to invest in OL. Rather reach for a OL and get a horrible let value for the pick? Or draft a guy who was very highly rated?

Have Sambrailo and Clady would have drastically changed the look of this OL. For one Clady knows this system, he was drafted into it. Can't predict injuries and complain when they hit the OL. Not to mention a new system in place and having to shift bodies around.

Joel
01-19-2016, 01:06 AM
We weren't even USING the ZBS when we drafted Roby in the 1st and Latimer in the 2nd before taking Schofield #95 overall, so that argument can't explain Elways first three seasons of ignoring a bad line that just got steadily worse until all of pro football openly PITIED Manning and our RBs. But let's address it for SAKE of argument:

Clady knows the system, but would've been elite in ANY system: That's why we picked him #12 overall. Think he lasts till #59 (where we took Sambrailo)? Or #95 (where we took Schofield)? It's not only possible but preferable to take a lineman who's a flat out elite BLOCKER but ALSO has the brains, quickness and agility for the ZBS: It's just rarely possible at the end of the 3rd (or even 2nd) round.

Even since switching to the ZBS, a 1st round pick would've been better spent on our championship-killing mockery of a line than an excellent OLB who's still #4 on the depth chart and barely plays a THIRD of downs. First round picks are for immediate starters, potential HoFers, not guys who spend a majority of their rookie season on the BENCH, as Ray has: Not because he sucks (he doesn't) but because we have THREE other guys who are BETTER.

I dunno, maybe he can BLOCK well enough to play most of a game; he can't be worse than Schofield, and we have NO better options. #Championship...? :confused:

I'll let it go now though, and whoever wants the final word can have it, because this has gone to two pages now and far afield from the very valid "Webster played a Hell of a game" point on which it and (more importantly) half the thread are based. Webster and McManus kicked butt, which deserves credit they rarely get.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
01-19-2016, 01:12 AM
Ray has outplayed Barrett in the last 4 weeks Joel. That's why he's gotten more snaps and sacks in that time frame.

You cant just throw crap at the wall by saying, "they lucked out with Barrett so I don't have to prove there was a starting caliber OT available where Ray was taken."

Valar Morghulis
01-19-2016, 05:18 AM
Ray has outplayed Barrett in the last 4 weeks Joel. That's why he's gotten more snaps and sacks in that time frame. You cant just throw crap at the wall by saying, "they lucked out with Barrett so I don't have to prove there was a starting caliber OT available where Ray was taken."

We could have taken a punt on that guy from LSU...... But I loved the Ray pick, and I don't think we knew what we had with Barrett at the time so to think he could plug in and play to replace ware would be unrealistic at the time